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Image courtesy HTC
HTC Pushes Back On Reports of Declining Headset Sales
Digital Trends recently published a report entitled 'VR is in a tailspin, and the sales numbers prove it'. It seems HTC has taken umbrage with the article's thesis in its newest blog post however, which pushes back against some of the article's claims, saying it's "not the whole story."
Very few major manufacturers have released sales data on their VR headsets, with Sony being the exception when they said that PSVR had already sold over 2 million units back in December 2017. To fill the informational void, analysts typically offer up their best estimates, using third-party services to corral the numbers into what appears to be a solid answer to the question: how is 'X' market doing?
Freelance writer Joshua Fruhlinger, who occasionally writes for Digital Trends, used third-party Amazon sales data to back up his claim that consumers don't care about VR anymore, saying it's "crystal clear." The entirety of Fruhlinger's claims are based on Amazon sales data obtained by Thinkium, an analytics firm that runs a blog-style front end to sell its services, of which Fruhlinger is publisher. Amazon does provide a good watermark for how any given product is faring, but it's not everything, HTC says.
The article cites a sharp decline in Vive's ranking in the top-100 products on Amazon, which Thinkium data says was in the top-50 products at it height of popularity. HTC however punches back by reminding him that it's actually been out of stock due to the shortage of a key component, which is why sales on the original Vive appeared to have slumped so rapidly.
Image courtesy Thinkium
The report also specifies Gear VR's decline in sales performance on Amazon. HTC posits however that these sorts of VR experiences have become "less enticing," and that Gear VR's initial success was due to it being offered in promotional deals with new flagship smartphones, which have since cooled down.
HTC however doesn't attempt to debunk the article's claims surrounding PSVR or Oculus Go, which may be more of a reflection of its unwillingness to discuss direct competitors in polite company. Thinkium data puts PSVR at the mediocre 83 spot on Amazon, and Oculus Go falling from number seven to below 100 on the product ranking list since its launch in May 2018 (not October 2017 as the Digital Trends article reports).
The newest crop of standalone VR headsets – Oculus Go, HTC Vive Focus, Lenovo Mirage Solo [left to right]
"More and more, as people begin to understand the possibilities for virtual applications, word of mouth will grow, and sales will continue their upward trajectory," HTC says, defending its position. "In the VR industry, it's important to not only move units, but to ensure that we have a growth path for customers and our business over time."
This is fine, but the only thing to really put these contradictory claims to rest is verifiable sales numbers, something HTC has elected not to do in response to critiques. Instead, the company cites a different analytics firm to back up its claim that its internal HTC Vive team is leading the VR market, presumably worldwide.
While the Digital Trends piece comes stock with a grippy headline, in the end, Fruhlinger isn't really saying VR is doomed by default, only that today's VR headsets have failed to capture the promise of resounding sales—something most people knew from day one anyway. Case in point: only a few online VR games maintain healthy active user numbers, which is clearly due to a small install base relative to traditional consoles and PC gaming; PSVR, having sold 2 million units, pales in comparison to PS4 console sales, which have topped more than 73.6 million units since December 2017.
Despite supposedly slumpish hardware sales, companies like Facebook are throwing massive amounts of money at the next generation of VR, already having reportedly paid over $88 million in Seattle-area real estate this year alone for their new Oculus hub. Oculus prototypes, including the 6DOF standalone headset Oculus 'Santa Cruz' and a more recent 140-degree FOV, varifocal, eye-tracking PC VR headset prototype, show a clear pathway to the future of the next generation of VR headsets, at least from Oculus.
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As for software, big investments in first-party titles and premium IP are either already here, or coming very soon. To name a few, Sony Japan Studio's super engaging platformer Astro Bot: Rescue Mission is due out this fall, and Oculus Studio's and Sanzaru Games' Marvel Powers United VR (2018) just released yesterday. Oculus has also invested in Twisted Pixel's upcoming action-adventure game Defector, and Insomniac Games' upcoming open world adventure Stormland.
VR arcades are also growing at an unprecedented rate, with Bandai Namco expanding its chain of VR Zone Arcades to cities across Japan and the UK, and HTC providing most of the gear and software for China-based arcades thanks to their enterprise-focused game subscription service, Viveport Arcade. New York's JFK airport just opened a number of Windows VR kiosks too, which are reportedly seeing round-the-clock usage thanks to the high-traffic area and general novelty of trying out a high-end VR headset for the first time.
So while the first generation of consumer VR has been touted as too expensive and too inaccessible, there are some constants here that bear summarizing: the investment is clearly there, the usecase is so unique we're still exploring its potential both in and outside of the home, and it's only going to get better, cheaper, more convenient as time goes on. It's clear VR has had to play the long game from the very start too, so low adoption rates of the first consumer devices is only news to you if you haven't been following the space.
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A VR Enthusiastic
I am applauding the last paragraph of the article. Very nice summarizing of the current environment.
And yes, i cannot wait for the second generation of HMDs.
Here is a quote from Josh's article…
"I dig VR. VR can bring a paradigm shift. The first time you strap into a VR experience, you're taken somewhere else. It's really cool. It's a lot like seeing a 3D movie for the first time.
But then what?"
This has to be one of the stupidest statement I've ever read from an official blogger/reporter.
This is the equivalent of saying
"I dig Hawaii. Hawaii brings a paradigm shift. The first time you step into Hawaii, you're taken somewhere else. It's really cool. It's a lot like seeing a 3D movie for the first time.
..but then what…? you enjoy it is what, its not a one off experience. There are places to explore, things to see, people to meet, and senses to stimulate. Hearing him say this makes me thing his entire article was just a big click bait, aimed at vr fans.
*think
Get Schwifty!
It also entirely misses the point that VR is a multi-application technology – for media consumption, games and "real applications" like engineering/medical/manufacturing. Fortunately the companies like (yes) Facebook and others see the real applications possible as VR matures and aren't throwing in the towel as is normally is done in business for next quarter, short term results. I can understand the dislike of Facebook's handling of private data, I really do, but if you're into VR thank heaven's we have a long term well funded player in it, even If they are focused on the social media aspects… it can only help VR and all the applications overall. I suspect the next Oculus headset (Santa Cruz) may be the true thrust forward, what is missing still is the content – I am convinced that VR versions of mainstream movie content is the key for the masses…. to watch Avengers in a VR format… that _will_ bring people to the table.
so much yes!
and side note try watching the dark night in something like Big screen Beta with a very large screen. Some scenes feel like theyre made for vr so much that my stomach kept dropping from feeling like i was in it
Oh why only limited to Avengers… Why not Game Of Thrones in VR .. or Altered Carbon in VR … Just can't imagine level of realism and entertainment it can pour in 2D screen series.
Real master piece would be Inception (2010) or The Matrix Kind of Movie in VR…
I meant options for _all_ of them even if its just 3D representations… cool VR run of the opening of GOT I watched just last night on an Oculus Go!.
HybridEnergy
"I dig sex. Sex can bring a paradigm shift. The first time you make love to a woman, you're taken somewhere else. It's really cool. It's a lot like a new life changing experience.
I agree JJ, what is life but a constant flow of experiences.
haha i love this a lot more than my Hawaii example
nasprin
Nice to see the neverending childish hype is dying off to give place for a healthy and slow quality growth.
The media feeding off sensationalism is a problem on it's own nowadays, VR was a perfekt target fot this: firs an unexplainable, hysteric hype, than an idiotic kindergarden-level disappoinment in spite of all the advances this new format made in a very short time. Don't really care at his point if HTC or Oculus (or some other) will win the market in the end, just happy to see money is flowing in steadily, which means we have very exiting years ahead of us!
Well said. I'm not sure why the idea that something right out of the gate must sell millions and become the next iphone to be considered a success either.
Well said flappy. Couldn't have said it better.
VR has dips along a a steadily rising development/sales curve and amateur crusty journalists who in many cases hate VR, write clickbait articles about VR failing. Gen one consumer VR was always going to be a niche peripheral and so many people fail to understand that. Simulation enthusiasts were the biggest slice of the VR market and pretty much all of the big name flight sims now support VR. There is an inevitable cooling off before gen 2 comes along… at which point those journalists who were attacking VR will suddenly start hyping it as "everyone's gaming future".
Tim Bates
Lol, Hit the nail on the head.. @Orangeunderpants:disqus
Be carrefoul calling consumers 'idiots'. They voting with their wallets, and they choosing 4k monitors over HMD for a reason.
In this changing world, slow growth often means death (for this generation of VR). Today's VR just cannot meet expectations of consumers (too little for too much). And your wishful thinking does not change that. Consider this: every next gen hardware seems to be more and more expensive. This does not look well for VR.
David D. Taylor
Read the digital trends article when it came out, and all of his 'proof' is super light-weight at best. I'm not going to type a novel, like I did in the comments on digital trends, but his most asinine thought was saying that consumers are clearly done with VR.
Sandy Wich
I'd just ignore the nay-sayers myself. The extreme majority of people I've seen say things like, "VR is gonna end up like 3DTVs/VR is failing/VR is in decline", are people who don't even own VR or know anything about it and are, for some reason, toxic towards the technology.
TBH what I've seen from most nay-sayers is they're hopeful that VR will fail. That's just how some people are.
We'll see many more years of this kind of talk towards AR/VR. And likely will as long as they fail to achieve parity with the modern television set.
Personally I just let it go down the river of not important and let the companies worry about public opinion. Much happier this way. >:D
Yea, in your face to the people arguing with me on the other article about the 1500 lay-offs at HTC. Everyone thinks that anything that happens at HTC is instantly the fault of the Vive Pro. Good to see them fire back. VR will be strong, and it will have a good healthy steady growth with out having to compete with the flat screen industry, because both can exist and neither has to be the exact same size at every moment. Something doesn't have to sell millions to be a success either, it's based on market expectations.
Lucidfeuer
"Something doesn't have to sell millions to be a success either" you need to keep off the kool-aid…
you need to stop using kool-aid as a reference, its not kool. OHHH YEAHHHHH
what would be a modern reference in the US? Arizona Tea? Nope, too 2014…
It should sell 23 trillion or it's a failure trash bin product to be honest.
More like you didn't know why they were fired and then out of blind fanaticism you claimed without having ANY confirmation of why/where they were laid off, in your own words that it had, "NOTHING to do with their VR". Yes, The capslock too.
Keep in mind those people were laid off shortly after Vive PRO became the laughing stock of the VR industry. Considering their stock had been on a sinking trend for years it's amazing that they'd only now fire them after their new VR device fails to impress anyone and not a year or 2 before, huh? Almost like they were holding out for a miracle, it didn't happen, then the feather broke the camels back.
Honestly the arguments continued only because you flat out refused to admit that any of HTC's current woes could have had something to do with the gigantic forcast for VR that was going to save HTC's company, then it didn't. You're just as guilty as anyone else at not knowing what you're talking about and I get the feeling if HTC wins the lottery someday that you'll be back spitting acid.
BTW this article, while it's nice, is 100% PR. Making excuses like the VIVE is out of stock indefinitely due to missing components is embarrassing. What an easy scape goat, huh? Now they have an excuse for whenever someone says HTC's VR isn't doing great. And then they go on to say that other devices aren't selling as well because consumers don't find it enticing.. Which is ridiculous. I didn't get a vote for whatever poll that was a part of. Did you?…
And come on.. The company that owns the VR uses a 3rd party analytics firm to defend their own device, when they themselves have all the numbers?… Something isn't right here… Why not just say how many units have sold?.. Why skirt the line with misleading words like revenue?…….. I know why, you should too.
..Also what a time to claim revenue success, right? Right after their headset goes on yet another permanent price cut. Wonder why they didn't mention anything about the VIVE Pro though, huh?…
Don't get me wrong. I love VR. I love that it's getting better, I love that competition is pushing the technology forward and I hate nay-sayers that say VR is doomed when it's obviously not.
But not wanting to see reality is also a problem too, you know?.. Let the companies keep flappin their gums and worry about, "revenue". Just like Microsoft Xbox.
Lastly I doubt any of those people who are still out of a job would laugh at your, "In your face!", joke. But hey, that's just my guess.
Give me a break dude, seriously ?
What's seriously? You throw dirt in someones face then try to bring it back up to another group of people while twisting facts to make yourself feel better and then one of the participants of said debate just so happens to walk by, speaks up, and now you're the one who's disappointed?… More like give me a break man. There was no reason to even bring up that argument here, this article isn't about layoffs at HTC or your hurt feelings.
I just don't want people coming on here and having a laugh at my expense without at least having the choice to see the other side of the debate as well, you know, considering you coincidentally left it out.
Nah, I think I won that hands down and I made the comment because this new article only proved me right. Something like the PRO has nothing to do with such lay offs and large hits to that size of a company. The end.
RationalThought
This is normal. If you follow most major product's today that started off in a similar fashion until the iteration that mastered the cost/ease of use/marketing formula. Mobile phones had a similar slow start….had they stopped investing in the late 80's and early 90's we wouldn't have the products we all use today. VR will not die….we simply haven't reached the product iteration that makes it a world wide household product yet, give it time. It took mobile phones over 20 years.
Absolute false-true BS. The most recent, and thus contextually relevant exemple is the smartphone: the first year, the first iteration, sold 6 millions at 700€, 10 years after there were 3 billion smartphone units sold…let's temper this with tablets which are lesser of a product, the first year it sold 20 millions, and 10 years after there's close to 800 millions sold.
The fact that VR has been around since the 2013, but let's say 2016 for the sake of it, and PC/PS4 version combined have sold less than 4 millions says all there need to be said about it's state and success…
MosBen
Why is the smartphone the better example than phones in general? By the time that smartphones came out, usage of cell phones was already very widespread. The basic technology worked and the infrastructure was in place. People were used to using cell phones, and cell phones had become necessary, or at least extremely useful, tools for lots of people.
RationalThought is correct that cell phone technology took a long time to become widespread. There's no obvious reason why we shouldn't think of VR being at that stage of technological development and social acceptance.
Only thing that need to be stoped is Stupid Journalism, and writers who never tried real VR and keep on writing articles based on their assumptions or just craving need of spicy circulation increment.
All inventions takes their time before wide circulation and acceptance, there are many economical and social boundaries and some times just stupid reasons of lay-mens tendency of accepting things said by others without trying them selves. So once these all barriers will be broken sure growth is inevitable, since there are many things which are not possible to be experienced by any other medium at all.. Ex. Titans of Space. No chart movie or model can better explain solar system then visiting it in VR.
Because phone appear more than a century ago, even though you can scale adoption rate against other object to determine whether it was a fast or slow adoption and I'm pretty by then standards it was fast.
Smartphone is the most recent exemple from 10 years ago. And you comparison doesn't stand: the whole infrastructure around VR, which is computing, connection and interface exists, but I agree that the tracking and pass-through technologies are more challenging than the capacitative tactile screen (the main invention that emerged from the smartphone).
Still, comparing a century year old's technology that replaced telegrams to a 2010s technology (that will replace screens and controllers), is absolutely irrelevant.
Nobody said that the comparison should be regular land line phones. Yes, land line phones were over a century ago, but cell phones, which is the example that was mentioned, were several decades ago. Smart phones are a recent example of a new technology being adopted, but that doesn't mean that it's a good comparison. There has to be some specific similarities between the technologies that make the comparison apt. Simply saying that it's recent doesn't mean anything.
I'm saying it's recent in terms of as in conjectural context, infrastructures, globalisation, economics, medias…you now reality.
Cellphones -relatives to the 90s- adopted really fast, the same way smartphones -relative to the 2010s- which is another context, adopted really fast to. So did TVs or radios before relative to their respective contexts.
Well in today's context, VR is doing really bad. Now we've been over this debate many times, in all amounts to having one of two approach: the delusional kool-aid approach which never made anything a success or the realistic critical approach (of which the goal is to garner necessary feedbacks towards the manufacturers, since developer are doing pretty much the job they can).
Yes, we've had this debate many times, and each time you put the goal posts for your comparisons in places that are extremely convenient for your position. There's no reason to start cell phone adoption in the 90s. Consumer cell phones were released in the early 80s. And they were expensive, and bulky, and didn't work great, which sounds suspiciously like the current generation of VR, except that I think that the current generation of VR works better than those early cell phones.
Nobody doubts that the current generation of HMDs has some handicaps which make it unattractive to many consumers, especially those who aren't predisposed to be excited about new technology in general and VR specifically. Similarly, nobody doubts that the current sales of HMDs is lower than anyone interested in VR would like. The two primary questions to answer are: 1) Will the next generation of tech be sufficiently improved to appeal to a broader audience than this generation, and 2) Will the sales of the current generation be sufficient for a second generation of hardware to be released, or will we enter another quiet period similar to the 90s and 00s.
You have repeatedly argued that VR is set to enter another dead period before coming back in 5-10 years, and you accuse people who disagree of having a "delusional kool-aid approach". But your arguments always involve cherry picking your tech examples to fit your narrative. And yet, we know that next generation HMDs ARE being worked on, even if we don't have release dates. The tech is improving, and at a fairly significant clip from the first generation HMDs. VR software is getting better, with games like Beat Saber and Moss earning really positive responses.
The major players aren't going to be abandoning VR in the near term. If the second generation of HMDs don't do significantly better than this generation, then maybe, but we simply don't know enough at this point to guess, and certainly not enough to be raining gloom and doom in the comments to lots and lots of stories.
Lucidfeuer do your research bud. The first smartphone came out in 2000!! The Ericsson R380! It many years and iterations just to get to the marketing term SMARTPHONE. PDA's that were mobile phones existed in the 90's. It took them that long to get to an iteration with mass appeal and functionality. You are jumping to the end of the line and comparing VR to the sale of a product 15+ years in the making.
The first MOBILE phone came out in 1983! Our Smartphones today is just that tech being expanded, upgraded etc etc. Just like the car you drive is a modern iteration of the MODEL T.
If people listened to people like you we would NEVER have gotten to most of the tech we have today. The first commercial game system The Magnavox Odyssey sold 350,000 units!! Good thing nobody around listened to people like you and they kept working and advancing the tech to eventually produce the NES…..
Yeah okay…you're spewing so many things you have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Nobody calls the Ericsson R380 a smartphone but Ericsson, nor any PDAs…it's like calling plane a car because it's a transport…
Also the fact the first Magnavox sold 350K unit in the 70s in the US alone is a huge number, and yet on a global 2010s market the CV1 barely sold as much… So was the Virtual Boy that sold 800K in the first year, and yet it was a failure.
I don't know even know where to start so much you start off with deep ignorance, but that's okay we all learn. Good thing our comments won't change the outcome much!
Ahhhh personal insults….the domain of the uneducated and ill-equipped. Good day.
1. Okay…the fact that smart is put before a device, doesn't change the intrinsequial concept of it. The fact that some TVs in the 90s already used the wording "smart TV" like the WebTV, doesn't mean it was any different as a product from other TV. In fact what we call a smartphone today, has nothing to do with a phone.
So no, the Ericsson is NOT what the modern usage of "smartphone" points to, neither were Palms, the iPhone is and ALL smartphones today are -conceived- the same.
But I never said the iPhone popped-out of nowhere, all technologies are the continuation from previous ones, but there simply was nothing like a modern smartphone or iPhone before it, because it's a new paradigm of device, and it's direct success speaks for it as a device. VR is a new paradigm, but it hasn't reach a 10th of the success of…any other successful new device segment, because that's not granted if the conception of the product falls short of what it should be.
2. I agree with your point, it's actually interesting to compare the Virtual Boy (which was considered a failure despite having sold more than the CV1 and Vive combined in the first year) to the PSVR, which sold 1.5 millions in a year and can continue as long as they iterate it next year. Maybe the road is actually as much in the mobile-hybrid segment as it is in console rather than PCs…
Andrew Jakobs
Fact is, vr has been around at least since the beginning of the 90's, not 2013..
True, it's not even the first cycle.
Today's virtual reality technologies are built upon ideas that date back to the 1800s, almost to the very beginning of photography. In 1838, the first stereoscope was created, using twin mirrors to project a single image. That eventually developed into the View-Master, patented in 1939 and still used today.
VR has been around for a very long time, and it has never died, It just wasn't consumer facing, and too expensive. I've worked with VR systems of all kinds for 30+ years, And now its back in the consumers hands, and its growing, and it will continue to grow. Just because some reporter with "NO REAL DATA" says its not, doesn't make it true. step into the Enterprise world of VR and you will notice that GM, Ford, Toyota, Boeing, Disney, NASA, General Electric, etc. have all been using VR for well over 30 yrs to create the products we use everyday..
Yes, and the first TV dates back to 500 years ago, so does the Homepod by the same logic…
I don't believe for a second that you ever worked with VR, since none of the brands I worked with, for VR projects, had used any form of VR recently (before the DK)…
But the debate is not here, VR is an obligatory technological paradigm change, it's been for 30 years now…the question is wether it'll happen in the coming year which is absolutely not a given, or 10-15+ if it fails to take off like it did in the 90s because despite it's advancement it's not enough…
I guess the XR industry revolves around what you think you know that's fine kid keep it up while the world around you continues to evolve, the 90's was a failed attempt to bring it to the consumer market only. The cost to build a real VR solution is in the millions somthing you probably have never seen. Good thing your not an expert.. the industry would be doomed.. lol
R FC
We were dabbling with vr in early 90s whilst I was training as industrial designer, and had exposure to commercial vr during placement inside multinational companies. My friend was design engineer for world leading razor blade manufacturer and I was very surprised they used it for some visualisation projects, but horrifically expensive.
My first time of consumer VR was in game arcade in London's trocadero with "Virtuality" in 1991.
No, no quit being a crybaby it revolve around arguments and numbers, I work in the current VR industry and people on kool-aid like you make us more and more certain that VR will not ending taking-off until 10+ years in the next iteration of VR…
Lol, as stated VR is slowing down . Take it from a real industry expert.. with 40+ yrs in IT. No kool-aid involved just good old industry experience.
Henry Yopp
Bad comparison, smart phones are the end of the evolutionary cycle of cell-phones, not the beginning. It took decades of slow growth in the cellular market to establish a customer base, build reliable networks and gradually spread out before the smart phone era could even begin.
VR is an entirely new medium and just like all new mediums before it, TV, Radio, Newspapers, it will take decades to reach full maturity.
Television and radio both took more less 20 years, and even the PC revolution took almost 10 years to _really_ get going. This is no different with VR, and the transition from early phones with limited use to general use then refinements to Blackberry and then "true" smart phones took place over a 20+ year period. VR is in the same boat.
But you act like vr has just started, even though in the beginning of the 90's we already had some headsets..still love my vfx-1 which fit better than my dk2 and didn't give me any motionsickness at all, but i would have loved an internal upgrade ofcourse..
VR is not declining per-se, it's stagnating which is almost the equivalent, for any markets, ever.
Now there are clearly two approaches: the kool-aid approach which consist in constant delusional dismissing of the reality in the hope that this "head in the sand" approach will have people lie to themselves and somehow numbers will magically grow, which are symptomatic attitudes of an unhealthy base (usually ends-up in a product doom)…
…or the realistic approach, which consists in stating the facts as they're meaning is in the existing context, criticising the shortcomings or mistakes or actors, while not forgetting to notice and applaud the relevant (and only relevant) efforts or advancements in the domain.
I work in VR, more than anybody I want VR to succeed, but not just for the sake of it, because there's a specific production and usage I need from it, and therefor I can't be oblivious to all the crap technology retention, slow cost-economic iteration and lots of shortcomings. Because in the end, delusional kool-aid apologies has never changed or saved a product or market…
yupp
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/70353791/per-se.jpg
That's exactly what I look like in real life.
Excluding mobile VR, which I think we can all agree has some compelling points (price, lack of wires), the first generation of VR requires a pretty beefy PC/console paired with a relatively expensive HMD, and the ability to be ok with the hassle of setting it all up and dealing with lots of wires. That was never something that was going to appeal to people who aren't already inclined to be excited about VR. But what this generation needed to do was get developers working; working to define the language of VR content, working to sort out what types of experiences work well and which don't in VR, working to refine things like ergonomics, input design, etc., and to base this off the feedback from people excited enough about the possibility of VR to essentially pay money to beta test VR tech.
The next generation of HMDs should see big improvements across the board, as well as seeing the introduction of products like Santa Cruz, which should provide a nice VR experience in a single package, without a complicated setup or need for an expensive PC. If sales don't pick up in the second generation of hardware, I'll join the skeptics. Until then, I don't see any reason for doom and gloom.
Next generation vr will still only be for enthousiasts unless the gpu prices come crashing down. Having to spend 600+ on a gpu to driveva next gen headset isn't going to sell it. Current gpu's already have difficulties to drive the current headsets woth the fidelity that people expect.
'nice VR experience in a single package, without a complicated setup or need for an expensive PC' HOW???? When GPU capable of driving next gen VR will costs around 1k USD, and eats around of 400 v of energy?? Not mentioning CPU for at least 400usd and at least 16gb ram? You dreaming man. Whole problem of today's VR is the same as in 90's- insufficient hardware.
I think that you're assuming that there's going to be a big jump in the system requirements for the next generation of VR. I think that that's not a good assumption. Neither Oculus, HTC, Valve, nor any of the WMR partners are going to release an HMD which requires a PC that costs over $1,000, ever. We're now at a point where a significant number of people own PCs that meet the minimum system requirements for the current generation of HMDs, and nobody wants to shut those people out by requiring new, top of the line hardware.
The next generation of HMDs will see some improvements in visuals, but mostly it's going to be improved ergonomics, better inputs, fewer/no wires, and a lower cost of entry (ie, relatively low system requirements and lower initial prices for the HMDs). The next generation is the one that they're going to want to be a breakout moment for VR, so they're not going to be catering to the desires of the hardcore crowd.
If you are right saying 'see some improvements in visuals, but mostly it's going to be improved' than vr dream is dead for now… VR just doesn't look like 'R right now (2d hi-res screens looks more R), and that's why people doesn't buy it. Visuals are EVERYTHING for VR, the whole point, sense and purpose – to fool at least one sense.
Only purpose of today's 'VR' is to see potential, not real VR.
I couldn't disagree more. If this generation of HMDs has taught us anything, it's that humans can experience "presence", that is, have our senses fooled, with relatively little change in stimuli. Current VR involves visual and auditory stimuli, but lots of people who try the roller coaster experiences or "standing on a plank" experiences feel vertigo or fear. Obviously, the visuals aren't super high fidelity, but that's not what is keeping people who aren't already VR enthusiasts from buying HMDs.
Normal people care about cost, the novelty of the available experiences, ease of use, and ergonomics way more than how many pixels are displayed. That aspect of the hardware will improve over time, and indeed I expect a small bump in the next generation in FOV and pixel density, but nothing will kill VR quicker than requiring consumers to have expensive PCs with top of the line video cards in order to use it.
I was like you-3 years ago… But experience (with hardware and people) taught me that VR in today's form, is (for mass consumer) just a gimmick, not something worth real time and money. Everyone says- 'ok this could be cool'. And after 3-5 minutes fun was ended.
And yes, feelings in rollercoasters was fun-play (especially for observer's) for 3-5 minutes. And than noone wants to do this again. On a hardware worth around 2k. So, sorry but I don't believe you. To convince masses to spend serious money and time (a very expensive currency today) vr needs to be much better.
VR software needs to be compelling, and that's something that will develop over time. We're still in the early days, when developers are defining the language of VR as a medium, are trying experiments, and learning from missteps. At some point we'll see a killer app that will be good enough to make people want to pick up an HMD to experience it.
But it won't be some arbitrary level of pixel density that will sell people on VR, or some other tech spec. And if anything, the requirement to hook up their HMD to an expensive PC (which they don't own) will be a huge barrier of entry that will convince lots of people that it's not worth it. Which is why the next generation of HMDs will see some modest spec boosts, but not so much that it dramatically changes the minimum PC specs. It's better for pretty much everyone other than the hardcore gamers if the minimum specs basically amount to any PC purchased in the last 2-3 years. VR won't be mainstream until its cost is comparable to buying a new video game console.
what?!?! how will i ever enjoy my vive with such news………………………..
What VR is missing is an open world multiplayer game. Why doesn't gta 5, bf1 or wow officially support vr?
nipple_pinchy
lol No, that's not what VR is missing. A multiplayer-only title is a death sentence with an industry that caters to such a small consumer base. There's thousands of VR "games" and they're not selling. Gamers have games and they're already hard-wired to the sedentary access to those experiences, i.e., PC and console, sitting on an office chair or couch.
We're over 2 years in and gamers aren't biting, so forget them and forget "games". Focus on the greater consumer market and approach VR as a medium for activity-based simulations and work-related applications.
Thinking of VR as just another mode of gaming will sink the industry. VR needs to divorce itself from gaming and find other consumers.
@ nipply_pinchy
"games", perhaps the least interesting aspect of virtual reality?
I've had much more profound VR sessions using non-gaming applications typically simulations and "experiences".
I won't be going to Mars in my lifetime, but its a total blast driving a Mars Rover on the surface of Mars in VR. Or watching Sadler's Wells dance company performing "Celestial Bodies" in VR.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/29430a22c3b113920e040d5b30ee34981c75f597dfdaf346336584453004049c.jpg
There's a much bigger world out there, than gaming, which means many more consumers interested in experiences than "gaming".
What you're saying is the best hope for future adoption of VR: not "video games" but experience-based simulations.
Cinema found its footing and settled into 90-120-minute narratives that employed cuts, camera angles and sound to convey a story; Video games found their footing by merging their early influences of board games and table-top games with cinema(cut-scenes) to offer experiences of varied length. VR needs to do the same; it needs to find its own identity.
I think that a massive host of smaller, shorter, more dense experiences that allow us to see, hear, do and be things that for a variety of reasons aren't feasible in reality.
Yes, experiences are very memorable "an experience" and can be incredibly vivid, even with the display limitations and ergonomic niggles of contemporary VR headsets and controllers.
And the shorter run time of experiences can bypass the comfort issues of contemporary equipment, whether this is eye strain caused convergence accommodation conflict or fixed IPD, heat / humidity build-up, facial interface mismatch, etc.
Also consider the free time paradox. VR equipment is not inexpensive; it often requires considerable financial investment, this is often possible from working in full time employment. Which can reduce the amount of free time that can be invested in using the equipment. Short, dense memorable experiences can be very rewarding and do not burn considerable amount of free time that many games require.
Gaming is what's keeping this gen going right now. VR won't find an outside audience until it's completely wireless and 360 videos get better which is happening as we speak, but the primary use now is gaming. VR finally has figured out how to make any genre work in VR, so now they need big games to build communities around. Rec Room is a good example of that., I don't think GTA would have a problem finding a community in VR. Most people won't buy into VR until there's an IP they're familiar with on it, which isn't the case yet. VR has to start going for big profile projects if it wants more people to buy in. All the multiplayer games so far would do similar numbers on a flat screen like so many average at best games do. As for outside of gaming VR three things would boost a wireless headset into the mainstream a Beyonce/Taylor Swift concert live streamed at movie theaters, a 360 Tarantino movie or just dump them into retirement homes and paw paw will be calling you to "get porn on the damn thing".
Gaming is a good marketing tool to keep enthusiasts interested, but it's not what will sustain VR as a business model in the long-term. Gamers aren't buying. Why? Because they already have their PCs and consoles. They don't want to stand up or move around. They have their gaming chairs and couches. I would not market to gamers if I were a VR developer.
For VR to not be seen as a gimmick, it has to divorce itself from gaming the same way cinema divorced itself from stage theater early on in its development and how video games divorce itself from tabletop and board games shortly after its inception.
There's no "community" in VR and anyone attempting any kind of multiplayer video game enterprise is throwing money down the toilet.
The problem with VR right now has nothing to do with IPs. Even if Rockstar released a VR-exclusive video game, it'd still barely move the needle.
1.) If you're a gamer, VR is an extra expense that allows you to experience games in a new way. For many, before even trying VR, they discount it as a pricey gimmick.
2.) VR is still relatively expensive. If you don't have an expensive gaming PC or a PS4, you're looking to invest at least $800-1000 on the lowest conceivable end to buy into a community of hardware owners that, by and large, consists of gamers, tech enthusiasts and VR devotees.
3.) Premium VR is still wired and tethered to an external device.
4.) There's too many video games and not enough VR-specific content like apps and simulators.
5.) To the masses, VR hasn't defined itself yet as a medium with exclusive virtues; it's seen as "just another video game thing"
In order for VR to break out in the current zeitgeist and economy, a standalone HMD must do the following:
-utilize improved inside-out tracking, with at least the resolution of the Vive Pro/Samsung Odyssey
-motion controllers as good if not better than current ones
-utilize a proprietary OS that alleviates any issues with driver conflicts or other issues on standard PCs
-all for the cost of a console OUT OF THE BOX
-have a vast, vast array of VR-specific applications and simulations(not games) that appeal to all audiences outside the gaming sphere
Once such a device exists, consumers will flock to Walmart, Amazon or any big box store to snatch them up by the millions.
If VR keeps exclusively catering to gamers, it'll be dead again within five years. Mark my words.
I don't disagree that the non gaming side of gaming will introduce VR to the masses and a standalone device is needed to accomplish that. But gaming is going to be a big part of VR as well and it's going to take established IPs to take VR gaming to attract mainstream gamers. Gaming is financing the whole industry right now, so they need to get more gamers on board for VR to bring more investorments in the industry.
I'm not very confident that traditional gamers will ever embrace VR, to be honest. There are people that will always take the simpler path, even if the slightly more difficult path will lead to a much better experience. It's like people buying a $1000 smartphone to watch movies on a tiny screen instead of buying a $500 big-screen that takes up half your living room wall. It doesn't make sense but a lot of times, consumers don't make sense.
Clearly, any first person "video game" , if modified correctly to be played in VR, is leagues more entertaining than its pancake counterpart(I haven't booted up a single pancake game in over a year but use SteamVR daily), but most gamers are fundamentalists and have been trained over decades to actually prefer artificial experiences on a flat screen with contrived control schemes over VR simulations of a variety of fantasy or real-world scenarios where your method of interaction is far closer to reality than smashing buttons on a gamepad.
They actually think that something that mimics reality is the gimmick, rather than the thing(flat video games) created as a stop-gap measure before commercial VR's inception. Those consumers are lost.
I don't think gaming is even largely financing the industry, or if it is, to what extent. Investing hundreds of millions more to entice consumers who've still not be courted after several years and billions in investments in VR games, it's not wise to make them the target demographic.
After hundreds upon hundreds of VR games being released on Steam, gamers will say there are no games being released. Their definition of a "game" is absurd and arbitrary and not helpful for VR's growth.
Powerful, enticing simulations don't need to have a massive virtual world and 25 different mechanics that costs $80mil to develop. My favorite VR titles are sims made by either one developer or a tiny studio consisting of single-digits employees.
I think the reason most gamers haven't caught on to VR is awareness. most casual gamers aren't aware it exists and why would they? I've seen one two commercials and neither were clear about it being VR and what VR is. VR has the potential to be bigger in gaming because it makes gaming more accessible to non gamers through ease of use. There are a few of gamers that claim they would never play VR, but I think given the right price in a standalone headset that would change. I think next gen VR has the potential to go mainstream but if all it offers is VR media and indie games, than VR will end up being a training tool.
After a few years of exposure on the Internet with the biggest YouTubers making videos that have resulted in untold millions of views, I think enough gamers know that VR exists.
I think there's a lot of reasons they haven't adopted it: price, misunderstandings or misgivings about resolution, weight, form factor, thinking it's a gimmick, thinking it's for more than games when they just want to play games, not knowing anyone that has a HMD and just wanting to play multiplayer, thinking all VR games suck, being too lazy, thinking you need an empty room, a lot of general ignorance that I don't think will be assuaged any time soon.
A lot of gamers are unbelievably lazy and will just settle for the simplest, cheapest avenue that keeps them distracted. For them, PC and console gaming is enough so they see nothing enticing them to VR.
Also, a lot of them are so narrow-minded and contradictory in their beliefs that they simultaneously believe that VR is a gimmick AND that VR should just be a gaming system where you can play games like Halo and Bioshock in a unique new way. They don't understand the contradiction.
Personally, I think that the current gen of gamers are lost to VR. Once the first inexpensive mobile standalone HMD comes out, the KIDS that have access to that and grow up with that version of VR will result in a new, open-minded consumer base that will clearly understand the values of VR and will be open to new forms of interactive entertainment beyond just "games".
Based on that we're looking at another 12-15 years until those kids become old enough to start nagging their parents for VR stuff(the 1st premium standalone mobile HMD will probably drop in 2-3 years when the first-gen of kids using it will be 6-7 and they'll start having disposable income 8-10 years after that).
My prediction around 2015–and that I still hold to–was that VR wouldn't even begin to be uttered by casual consumers until 5-7 years after the first consumer HMDs dropped. We're 2.5 years into that cycle so I think my prediction will come true.
Small, mobile(wireless), standalone and affordable. Once those boxes are ticked, VR will take off.
You have to consider that very few gamers visit gamesites and watch YouTubers about games. Out of the hundreds of psn friends I have only a handful look up games and only four had even heard of the psvr. I ask often to gauge awareness amongst my friends and their routinely blown away when they find out it exists. You may be right about about the gamer crowd. Im starting a VR business now and what I've noticed is that kids and non gamers love playing VR games. Even the casual gamers like it, it's the hardcore gamers that either love it or hate it. They hate it for those reasons you listed and I think they are intemidated by the prospect of having to use some sort of physical skill to win a game. Think about a VR cod, there is no quick scoping and jumping just makes you an easier target. That alone would send the flat cod community into a shitstorm as they rely on exploits and not skill for that precious kdr. This is an interesting phenomenon and I wonder how it will effect next gen VR growth. I always thought of this gen as a prototype generation for gameplay, form factor, price, marketing and tech. I'd just like for AAA devs try and see if AAA IPs will attract more mainstream gamers. Bethesda said it has paid off for them and those are the only two games gamers would even have heard of. I'd ideally like to see GTA or fallout on psvr, I'd take no man's sky at least. I love VR because it takes you to a realm of infinite possibilities and for me an open world to get lost in with my brother is all l want!
>You have to consider that very few gamers visit gamesites and watch YouTubers about games.
Most likely right. At least not enough to move the needle.
>Im starting a VR business now
I want to start or invest in a VR studio, too. I have several VR-exclusive sims/apps I want to start. Maybe late 2019 or 2020.
>kids and non gamers love playing VR games
I think it's because they're not trained with such narrow definitions of what makes great interactive digital entertainment. Gamers think VR is just "games" and it's tough to negotiate with people who live and breathe video games and have a clearly defined version of what they think interactive entertainment can and can't be. So there's a dichotomy that you'd think people whose primary hobby is games would embrace VR but they're so hard-coded into games that if something is different, they consider it a gimmick or a threat.
>Think about a VR cod, there is no quick scoping and jumping just makes you an easier target. That alone would send the flat cod community into a shitstorm as they rely on exploits and not skill for that precious kdr.
Exactly. These people have been interacting with virtual worlds for years or decades using contrived control mechanisms so a virtual reality military simulator would seem offensive because it's counter to what they already know.
>I'd just like for AAA devs try and see if AAA IPs will attract more mainstream gamers.
AAA devs and publishers will dip their toes in the VR pond just to hedge their bets and have A presence, but they won't gamble tens of millions on any VR-only endeavors. This is why VR start-ups and single developers who only care about VR have a chance to establish a firm foothold in the industry. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain. AAAs have money and resources to lose.
I'd pay $200 for a full-fledged VR version of GTA V, but I don't see that ever happening. Rockstar barely wants to put their games on PC and PC has hundreds of millions of global consumers.
There is definitely money in VR right now. It has a shut up and take my money quality! The less they know about it the more amazed they are by it! Co op experiences are definitely the way to go this early in the game(it's easier to get a couple of people than a couple of teams and it bonds people in a positive way)!
As far as AAA games go the best we can hope for is a port of an old game until next gen. Stormland seems to be the most ambitious VR title so far, but it'll be next gen before we can get similar size titles on a standalone or get Joshua bell level media content ready. I really hope they can pull it all together in one package next gen. That's why I don't mind waiting as long as possible until they drop new headsets.
>it has a shut up and take my money quality!
For me it certainly does! I see all previews for these super-expensive pancake games like Anthem and I feel nothing, but I see footage for an early access VR sim called Blade and Sorcery made by ONE GUY and I'm hyped to the Nth degree.
The problem I have with traditional gamers is that they've been trained to expect games that have an overflow of mechanics and a ton of features made to inflate the perceived value of an experience and when they see VR, they ask why the equivalent of GTA V doesn't exist yet.
They don't understand that the gaming and VR industries are completely separate. VR is only a little over 2 years old. Traditional video gaming is 40 years old. The consumer base for VR is tiny and the buy-in cost–unless you already have an expensive PC or console–is fairly high.
I still want Star Citizen with complete VR support so I can buy a starship for my kids so we can explore the universe together, but I understand the numbers game. It'll be years until the big developers–or upstarts–can feasibly devote a lot of resources and money to VR-exclusive endeavors.
fuyou2
'A multiplayer-only title is a death sentence' , WTF what a retarded comment, what drugs are you on? Content, Content, Content…
You're not a VR user so just stay in your lane. Just keep playing your Xbox. You have no idea what you're talking about in regards to VR or what it needs.
Stop marketing to gamers. VR isn't just another medium to experience frickin' video games. VR as a medium has infinite use cases. Devs should approach VR HMDs more like smartphones and not gaming consoles. A smartphone is an application hub; a console can only play games.
Consumer VR has been around for over 2 years now and gamers aren't biting, regardless of how cheap headsets are now because they already have their gamer hardware. They're married to their couches and mouse/keyboard/gamepad setup. They're not going to buy an HMD to do what they already do in a sedentary manner. Forget that consumer base and expand out. Market to everyone else.
The smartphone market is massive and there's innumerable revenue streams, not just gaming. VR needs to divorce itself from gaming and establish itself as more of a medium for simulations and applications within a virtual space. Stop calling all VR titles "games"; it's harmful and misleading. General consumers won't be interested in tech if they think it's just another video game thing.
What VR needs is for non-gaming devs need to come in and start creating content lacking any influence from the games industry that reflects the attractive aspects of virtual reality.
HTC stopped marketing to gamers after the enterprise edition was created.. its the VR Gaming marketers that keeps bring them back for VR enthusiast which is fine. HTC Pro is actually focus on the Enterprise hince the price. This is no different than what Nvidia does with Geforce vs Quadro same cards but the price difference is $3-4000 higher that Geforce. in this case HTC doesn't have a cheaper price for gamers..
Pasi Ripari
"due to the shortage of a key component, which is why sales on the original Vive appeared to have slumped so rapidly."
Yeah no kidding, been waiting for my Vive Pro for nearly 2 months now.
No wonder VR is slow to take off, it's freaking impossible to get one in the first place, then you need to be lucky enough for it to work. (Returned my first one because of jitter.)
Jerald Doerr
The only type of VR that might die off is cell phone VR or stand alone VR/AR… faaaaaaar before Oculus or Vive type VR (PC Hookup/roomscale) .. and all that's going to happen is pricing dropping.. plus so much technology is on the way to upgrade VR you'd have to be moron to not invest or think it's going to go away like track balls….
For me it's still the price of a new gpu which holds me back from buying a newer headset (still have the oculus dk2/gtx760), as i think 300+ euro's for a (not even) midrange card (gtx 1060,6GB) is just way too much, and if you really want decend/coming years vr proof gpu, you'l need at least a gtx1070..
And i know from a lot of people near me who think exactly the same, the headset itself isn't really the problem, the gpu to drive it is.
Zerofool
Agreed. And by the looks of it, next gen Nvidia cards (launching late next month) will be even more expensive. AMD has nothing to counter them until sometime next year, so Nvidia can price them as high as they want, especially considering that they have pretty big stock of current gen 10-series cards, which need to go.
There's an alleged leak regarding pricing and a new naming scheme, which I hope is incorrect, but in case it's legit you should be mentally prepared, so here it is (please direct your disappointment, anger and insults towards Nvidia ;) ):
https://wccftech.com/nvidias-next-generation-graphics-cards-specifications-pricing-and-nomenclature-details/
Eye tracking and foveated rendering (therefore, lower GPU requirements) can't arrive soon enough.
brandon9271
If VR is stagnant then why haven't HTC come down in price? You should be able to buy the Vive Pro WITH controllers for $799. It's almost like they don't want mass adoption of their platform. I guess they realize that in the end, Valve gets most of the money from games
HTC will probably not come down in price.. it's focus on a different level of users.. Oculus is focus on winning over Xbox, and PS4 users while HTC is focus on Enterprise business users.
HTC is focused on being greedy :)
not greedy just in a different market.. $1300 Vive or $1900 Vive pro is pretty cheap compared to other hmd's for enterprise.. OSVR is selling theirs for $1000's http://sensics.com/products/ my Canon MR HMD was $250,000 that was just last years price.
The writer of the Digital Trends article, Joshua Fruhlinger, is being negative as usual. Doom and gloom. The truth is, VR is doing very well as it is in it's first commercial outing, with growing pains that are normal. Wait until the second generation when it's wireless and easy to configure. It will gain much more adoption and momentum at that point.
TonyVT SkarredGhost
That article annoyed me a lot because lots of people used it to say that VR is a fad.
1. Amazon should never be a single data source for market trends either, its a piece of market.. lol
Today's XR technologies are built upon ideas that date back to the 1800s, almost to the very beginning of photography. In 1838, the first stereoscope was created, using twin mirrors to project a single image. That eventually developed into the View-Master, patented in 1939 and still used today.
Another example: The Sensorama. This is followed by the first type of multimedia device in the form of an interactive theatre experience, devised by Morton Heilig, and known as the 'Sensorama'. This early form of VR was invented in 1957 but was not patented until 1962.
Around the same time, Douglas Engelbart used computer screens both as input and output devices. In 1968, Ivan Sutherland, with the help of his student Bob Sproull, created what was widely considered to be the first head-mounted display (HMD) system for use in immersive simulation applications.
Walter Sharrow
The only news here is that the HTC VIVE is falling off. They had a HUGE lead over Oculus by getting motion controllers out first. By the time Oculus finally came out with their Touch, people had already installed their Lighthouses and were married to the VIVE. Their attempt to buy companies into their closed market hurt their reputation and slowed down what they should have done from the beginning, which is integrate with Steam. All of these issues are solved now. I haven't touched my VIVE in months.
Oculus has made alot of mistakes on what is otherwise FAR more comfortable hardware, delivered at a better price. Assuming they don't shoot themselves in the foot any MORE times, they are going to advance well ahead of the VIVE in the future. Either that or Windows Mixed Reality is going to devour both of them. :/
As for mass adoption of VR, that's still up to the GPU makers, as much as anyone else. A good VR card is still at least $300, right? Just imagine beastly cards necessary to drive 2k to 4k headsets! The card alone will cost more then the whole computer and VR rig combined! I hope Foveated Rendering is as big of a deal as people have said, because without it… those new high-rez headsets are doomed. The GPU power gap is already too high.
There is a misunderstanding of markets and where Oculus and HTC is focus.. at the beginning they were both focus on Consumer, but that changed after HTC released the Enterprise version of their VR Solution. HTC is only falling off in the consumer market and that's by design.. HTC is the standard for Enterprise. I agree Oculus is winning in the Console/Home VR market, and Oculus has lost the war in Enterprise.
35% market share for HTC Vive, and 9% for Oculus? lmao ok.
Whats killing VR is all the substandard fucking shit like mobile VR headsets, that most consumers first impressions of VR comes from.. GEAR VR, DAYDREAM, OCULUS GO, Google Cardboard..The List Fucking goes on..
oompah
I would buy HTC only if
its 200$
then you're cheap. Thats the same as saying i'm only ever gona buy coffee thats 10 cents. i Might find it that cheap but it'll be shit.
The thing is – people (in general) doesn't need poor (today's) VR! No need-no sales (less than 4.milions pieces globally in 4 years is laughable).
They already have a lot of ways to have fun-play good games for ex. (because 'good' means to be able to have a good story). Business ? Ok. But tools for business are expensive and not user friendly.
Today's VR is just too weak product to make a global success. Low resolution, small fov, expensive GPU, and no content. Those are nails to the VR coffin. Only way to turn this around is to get better (software and hardware). Much much better. But for this industry needs a waterfall of money…
there arent 4 million bugattis in the world and yet people think that cars a success.. hmmmmm. I dont think those are nails in a coffin, let alone theres a coffin at all for vr… plus vr isnt in a poor state, the resolution is great, the fov is near our eyes, 1070s are cheap and work well for VR, steam is getting pumped with vr content daily.
Idk what rock you live under but you are just being difficult and creating issues that dont exist.
plus Fb is that waterfall…. So literally everything you said is bs. try not to be so stupid next time you post
I'm more excited for the future of VR than I am any other tech or medium. So much potential. When consumer facial tracking gets really good I can imagine people becoming virtual actors, making movies in virtual sets and being anyone. Hell, I'd love to do that.
Kind of like what that guy Andy Serkis does(Gollum, King Kong, Caesar from the Apes movies) only in real-time while wearing a VR HMD.
disqus_SWe1pH5gM2
Notice 3D TV's are hard to find now when just a few years ago they were considered to be the "latest and greatest". I'll be buying a Rift, but I'm not holding my breath.
'Presentiment of Death' is Like 'SUPERHOT VR' with Archery, Coming to...
Critically Acclaimed Propaganda Sim 'Not for Broadcast' Coming to Quest 2...


text:
President's Perspective
Kick Off! Fall 2013
President and Vice-Chancellor David Barnard
An exciting new era for intercollegiate sports at the University of Manitoba began on August 30 when our Bison men's football team kicked off its first season at Investors Group Field.
Our football team, under the leadership of Coach Brian Dobie, is now playing, training and learning in the best facility for intercollegiate football in Canada and one of the best stadiums in North America.
By all accounts, the thousands of fans who cheered the Bisons on to victory over the University of Alberta Golden Bears were impressed by the game day experience, which has improved the atmosphere for players, students, alumni, faculty, staff, family, friends and other fans.
All of our student athletes deserve our enthusiastic support whether they play football or are part of a community of 300 student athletes who, along with 100 coaches, trainers and managers, are involved in eight intercollegiate sports.
They are exceptional people with bright futures ahead of them. They are incredibly skilled at balancing training time with academic demands. As many as one third of them are CIS academic all-stars, meaning they have an average of 3.5 or better.
They also take on important leadership roles in our university. This year, third-year linebacker Al Turnbull was elected as president of the University of Manitoba Students' Union and will serve as an important student voice in the governance of our university.
Former Bisons such as Thomas Hall have displayed a passion for helping others. Through Project Echo, Thomas raised money for Winnipeg libraries, sponsored a home for orphaned children in Namibia and delivered Christmas hampers to Winnipeg families. He received the CIS Russ Jackson Award in 2009 because of his activities on and off the field.
Through our Bisons Against Bullying program, our athletes serve as positive role models and conduct bullying prevention seminars at Manitoba schools. More than 100 schools have been visited since 2005.
I am pleased that Coach Dobie and his team now have facilities that are worthy of their passion and commitment that is part of our larger vision to transform the spaces on our campuses.
The stadium project fits into our larger vision to transform the spaces on our campuses.
Since 2008-09, we have invested $614 million in spaces for learning, research, living and recreation. These projects help recruit students, attract and retain faculty and staff, improve our learning and working environment and help us better serve the broader community.
There are many more exciting projects to come.
The new 100,000 square foot Active Living Centre to be opened in 2015 will provide us a new home for active, sustainable, healthy living. It will house a high-performance training facility for elite athletes, a state-of-the-art indoor running track, a 12-meter climbing wall, an Applied Research Centre, a gathering area for students, strength and conditioning facilities and three group workout studios.
Phase Two of the Taché Arts Project will see the historic former residence transformed into a new home for culture and creativity on campus.
As is the case with Investors Group Field, the Active Living Centre and the Taché Arts Project will attract visitors to our Fort Garry Campus who otherwise may never have had cause to visit the University of Manitoba.
These projects are the result of the vision and hard work of our faculty and staff and are possible because of the generosity of our alumni, donors, partners and friends. They are also a significant factor in making the University of Manitoba an exciting place of learning, discovery and engagement.
Mariianne Mays Wiebe

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


text:
Darius Rucker Southern Style Tour
« Free Fringe
The 46-Hour Improv Marathon: Hour 1 – Teen Mixer »
For more information, visit http://www.cedarparkcenter.com/events/detail/darius-rucker-southern-style-tour
The Country genre has become home for three-time GRAMMY winner and former rocker Darius Rucker. His previous three releases debuted at No. 1 on the Billboard Country Albums chart, he scored a GRAMMY Award for his 2013 mega-hit "Wagon Wheel" and is headed back out on the road again this summer on the Southern Style Tour, in support of his fourth country album just released on March 31st. Rucker announced an Austin area tour stop on June 18th at 7 p.m. at Cedar Park Center. Rucker selected special guest and CMA New Artist of the Year Brett Eldredge, as well as rising country music duo Brothers Osborne and Southern rockers A Thousand Horses to join him on the tour.
About Darius Rucker
Capitol Nashville recording artist Darius Rucker released his fourth country album, Southern Style, on March 31, 2015, the same week lead single "Homegrown Honey" became his seventh No. 1 hit. Rucker wrote "Homegrown Honey" with a couple of fellow GRAMMY winners, Lady Antebellum's Charles Kelley and producer Nathan Chapman.
Southern Style is already receiving critical praise. According to USA Today, "Southern Style comes close to Rucker's ideal, with the sweet dobro intro to honky-tonk shuffle 'Good for a Good Time' and a title song that extols the virtues of Billy Graham, Lynyrd Skynyrd and Lil Wayne against a leisurely paced slide guitar. On 'Baby I'm Right,' a playful duet with Mallary Hope, the mandolin is so high in the mix it's almost like an extra lead voice."
Rucker's first three albums – Learn To Live, Charleston, SC 1966 and True Believers – produced six No. 1 singles, including "Come Back Song," "This," "Alright," "It Won't Be Like This For Long" and "Don't Think I Don't Think About It." His 2013 No. 1, "Wagon Wheel," won a GRAMMY Award, stayed atop the charts for two weeks and was nominated for Song of the Year at the Country Music Association and Academy of Country Music awards. In 2009, Rucker was named New Artist of the Year at the CMA Awards. He achieved a personal goal and childhood dream when he was inducted into the Grand Ole Opry on October 16, 2012. To learn more about Darius Rucker go to http://www.dariusrucker.com.
About Brett Eldredge
CMA New Artist of the Year Brett Eldredge is enjoying two consecutive gold-certified No. 1 hits with "Don't Ya" and Billboard's No. 1 song on Country Airplay in 2014, "Beat of the Music." The only country artist cited as one of People Magazine's "Ones To Watch," Eldredge's his new single, "Mean To Me" is nearing Top 10 and climbing. Enjoying recent performances on Today, Live with Kelly & Michael, Late Night with Jimmy Fallon and Late Night with Seth Myers, Eldredge he is currently on the road in support of his debut album Bring You Back.
About Brothers Osborne
Two sons from a working class family, John and TJ Osborne grew up in a small, Maryland water town. They spent most nights not in front of the television, but writing and playing songs for friends and family in their father's shed. John (guitar) moved to Nashville first to play in other bands and two years later, TJ (vocals/guitar) joined him. It was then they formed Brothers Osborne and in April 2011 they signed with Warner Chappell/King Pen Music for publishing followed by a deal with Capitol Records a year later. Their blue-collar rural Maryland upbringing still informs the music they make as a twang-and-crunch duo that blends equal parts country and rock into one of the freshest, most identifiable sounds to come out of Nashville in recent years. Their latest single "Rum" was named one of the top country songs of 2014 by Billboard as well as Rolling Stone and Nashville Lifestyles recently named them one of the Top 25 Artists to Watch in 2015. They are currently in the studio finishing their debut album set to release in 2015.
About A Thousand Horses
A Thousand Horses is a fresh fusion of classic sounds – a hybrid of Lynyrd Skynyrd, the Allman Brothers, Black Crowes and Exile on Main Street-era Rolling Stones, wrapped up in a modern-country context. The band's Republic Nashville album, Southernality, is as wild and free and powerful as the name A Thousand Horses implies. This is the result of years of a road-doggin' pursuit, determination and an against-the-odds struggle that found its rewards by bringing great music to the people. Whether it's the Stonesy swagger of the opening "First Time," the heart-felt country of "Tennessee Whiskey" or the thumping celebration, "Trailer Trashed," the band has delivered an album that reflects the rebellion, attitude and heart that both the youth and working men and women of America live every day. For more information, visit http://www.athousandhorses.com
Cedar Park Center
https://www.facebook.com/CedarParkCenter
Cedar Park, TX 78613 United States
EDITOR'S NOTE: Listings on the Austin.com calendar contain user-submitted information. Make sure to double check the date, time, and location of your event!
FULL Eclipse Watch Party at The Highball
A partial eclipse is… fine. But Austin is right in the path of a FULL eclipse in 2024! Join hosts...
October 18 @ 7:30 am - 4:00 pm
Join us for the 2020 LIVESTRONG Challenge benefiting the revolutionary LIVESTRONG Cancer Institutes of the Dell Medical School at The...
June 11 @ 7:30 pm - 9:30 pm - $29.00 – $49.00
Samin Nosrat
As an undergraduate studying English at UC Berkeley, Samin Nosrat took a detour into the kitchen at Chez Panisse restaurant...


Here's something I started working on this weekend. This photograph was taken once I had finished the first layer. At this stage I am just blocking in the main colours and once dry I can then begin to build up the layers and add all the fine detail.
Thanks to David Stribbling for the brilliant reference photograph.


Harriet Atkinson is a historian and Research Fellow based at the Royal College of Art. Author affiliation details are correct at time of print publication.
Anne-Marie Willis is a design writer, editor and educator. She is currently professor of Design Theory at the German University in Cairo, Egypt. Author affiliation details are correct at time of print publication.


text:
Q: Titanium - Android button "native" behavior upon styling I've created 2 buttons:
<Button title="TEST"></Button>
<Button title="TEST" backgroundColor="red"></Button>

The first is a really simple default button. And the second I just added a red background color. The result is this:

As you can see from the picture, just adding a different background color changes the button a lot from it's "native" appearance. What I would expect is that the button will remain the same, just with a red background.

*

*The "styled" button is bigger (and as you can see I did not set up any dimensions).

*The "styled" button corners are no longer round.

*Most bothering - the "styled" button no longer has the android button ripple effect upon clicking.

Why is that? Can it be fixed?

A: The native button (AppCompatButton) is a bit more complex and is not using the backgroundColor to show the actual color. I think it is using a 9-patch in the background so if you set a backgroundColor it will remove that and you end up with the box and the color.
Try using the tintColor to change the background color or you can fake it using:

*

*borderRadius

*elevation

*touchFeedback

*touchFeedbackColor

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaStackExchange


I like the refillable perfume sprayer so convenient i can carry my perfume in my handbag.
This refillable container is gorgeous and certainly will come in handy on my upcoming trip! Loving the pink all the way.
They're all impressive for they are stylish, easy to carry, and they give a nice scent. Personally I like good smell perfume from abroad.
Nice container! It is a good shot that it was made as refillable.
That would be super convenient for on the go perfume users!
Super convenient for on the go perfume users!
This is would be perfect for my travels. Esp with this size it would be permissable in flights as well!
I have something similar too! Very convenient for travel.
Stylish and vibrant packaging. I like the idea of refillable perfumes, but it is not clear from where it is to be refilled. thanks for the info.
Stylish and vibrant packaging. I Like the idea of a refillable perfume. Thanks for the info.


An example of juxtaposing-if you watched "Clockwork Orange" you may be familiar with this. If not, here's the lowdown: based on an Anthony Burgess novel of the same name directed by the legendary Stanley Kubrick, an amoral teen (young Malcolm McDowell in a truly wicked role) with penchant for violence is imprisoned following a brutal murder, and is subject to an experimental treatment to cure him of his evil ways, with near fatal consequences.
Censorship is a pretty complex issue in this ever changing digital age. You see it everyday, the violence and tragedies that play out in glorious Matrix style flair in movies and tv programming, or raw brutal footages of violent terror attacks against the innocents as documented by reporters on scene. Or even in real life, one becomes an unwitting witness to a police officer gone berserk or crazy teens who decide to randomly shoot a stranger for no reason other than that they were bored. And no amount of government intervention or parental nagging can shield us from the horror that plays out in our living room tv or on the streets everyday.
So what with the ratings system or the pre programming warning messages advising us to be careful what we are about to see. Like the story of Pandora's Box we humans are curious beings, and that drive is so strong we cannot help but to peek even if it could kill us. And the ratings only fuels the flames within.
But that is not to say ratings are useless. As humans we also harbor the knowledge of Good and Evil, of Right and Wrong. Therefore we have the instinctive duty to be responsible for ourselves as well as for our loved ones and even strangers. We should not let what our eyes see affect our state of mind. We need to be self controlled and self disciplined for the sake of our world and the future generations. Changes begins in us; others cannot change it for you. Just like poor Alex who was left with false notion of having been "cured" of his violent behaviors only to leave him wide open for a disastrous reunion with his world.


The 7th episode of Marvel's Cloak and Dagger was a nail biter! The episode was titled "Lotus Eaters," and it is what we have ALL been waiting for. Cloak and Dagger are finally one! They are FINALLY on the same team fighting/working together/solving things.
The episode starts off in the past. Mina makes cookies for her father, Ivan, who then flies over to the Roxxon oil rig. He arrives, demands to speak to Nathan Bowen, and then the alarm sounds as the explosion is about to go off, which paralyzes him. We then go back into present day with him in the nursing home.
Cloak and Dagger's journey this episode starts off in the church with Cloak, post breakdown. He tells Dagger about the shoouting. Dagger quickly brushes the matter off and tells Cloak about Ivan, his vision and the door with black cloud coming out. He is reluctant at first, but agrees to go with Dagger to the nursing home to take a look at Ivan. When they arrive, they hold Ivan's hand, unlock the door and are transported into the oil rig during the explosion (when the alarms go off). They are "greeted" by a worker who tries to hit them with a shovel. Dagger stabs hI'm, then the two escape to a nearby office, where they find a young Ivan. It appears that Cloak and Dagger are in a time warp, since Ivan does not know his name, and says he's been in this same situation for years. Cloak suggests that in order to stop the loop, they have to stop the explosion from happening. They try to go downstairs to the core room to stop the explosion from happening, but they are stopped by Roxxonn workers, and the rig explodes.
They are then transported to their original interaction with Ivan. Cloak and Dagger try explaining to Ivan that they've come from the real world and attempt to convey that Ivan's been trapped in this alternate reality for the past eight years. Dagger then brings up her father's name and Ivan remembers it as "the guy on the phone" and it's revealed that Nate Bowen was speaking with Ivan when the Bowen's car crashed into the Gulf. Just as he says that, the phone rings and Dagger picks up, talking to her father. The big explosion happens again and the two are taken back in time…again, to their initial interaction with Ivan…….again.
The phone rings and Dagger picks up talking to her father. Cloak decides to focus his energy to go to the core room to turn off the valves so the explosion doesn't happen. To dodge the rabid Roxxon employees he decides to use his teleportation powers. He makes it into the core room, but is unfortunately half way through turning off the valves when the explosion happens. He is then taken back in time. Cloak gives up and says it's impossible, and what happened happened, and tells Dagger that they need to head back into the real world. They count to three and teleport out….. or at least only Cloak does. It appears that Dagger has chosen to stay back just so she can keep on talking to her dad.
Cloak goes back into Ivan's mind, but this time when he sees Dagger, she is in the same state of mind that Ivan is in. She doesn't know her name, who Cloak is and where she is from. The only thing she knows is the moment. Cloak tries to jog her memory, but Dagger says that she is happy here and she is only playing Cloak. Cloak gets cheesed an unplugs the phone as soon as it rings, which triggers Dagger and the two start fighting, like a mini Civil War. It's awesome! Dagger is just throwing light daggers while Cloak is just teleporting. Time resets, and the 2 go at it some more. Time resets again and Cloak throws in the towel, and gives up. He admits that if Billy was on the phone, he wouldn't leave either. But he challenges Dagger to ask her father something that he would only know. When the phone rings, Dagger picks up the phone and asks her father, "who is in the backseat of your car right now?" Nate replies, "No one," and Dagger breaks down, as she realizes she isn't actually talking to her real father, just a "simulation," and she remembers EVERYTHING. Dagger then sees Ivan with a cookie Mina made, and she tries to jog his memory., so he can not be paralyzed in 'real time' and "do the right thing." Tandy says that secret ingredient in the cookies is cardamom, and then Ivan starts crying as he finally remembers Mina. He asks the see Mina but tells the two that he can't exit this reality and Cloak reminds him that he needs to get down to the core room to shut the valves off himself. Ivan's upset because he's tried doing it time and time again but Dagger reminds him that he's never had them to help.
The three fight their way through the workers to get to the core room and Ivan shuts off the valves before the big explosion. The three instantly wake back up in the hospital and Ivan's fully conscious. In the real world, Ivan doesn't know who Cloak and Dagger are and asks to see Mina, who happens to arrive, with a bag of cookies.
Cloak and Dagger go to their respective homes. Cloak looks through an old shoe box of pictures and finds an old voice recorder. Dagger tries falling asleep and then her phone rings. It's Cloak. He tells Dagger he needs somebody to talk to. Dagger convinces Cloak to press play on the voice recorder and it's a clip of him and Billy freestyling as kids.
This episode was one of the best one's so far, and I hope it gets even better! It's intense, emotional, and it's the beginning of Cloak and Dagger as a unit! We got to see the two work together, and fight each other within the span of 1 hour. They also managed to earn their title as 'heroes' since they saved someone's life, which could possibly domino effect into avenging the many deaths that the oil rig explosion caused.


text:
Bebb and Gould est un partenariat d'architectes composés de  et . Le partenariat sera actif à Seattle de 1914 à 1939.

Ils seront l'instigateurs de la création de plusieurs bâtiments entre autres de l'Université de Washington, ,  et le .

Plusieurs de ces bâtiments font aujourd'hui parti du Registre national des lieux historiques des États-Unis.

Références

Seattle
Agence d'architecture ayant son siège aux États-Unis

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaWikipedia


If you are buying a home in the near future, now is the time to hire a home inspection company. You want to ensure the money spent is worth the costs and that you are buying a home that will provide many long lasting years of usage. Initiating a home inspection before you buy the property gives you peace of mind and assurance in the home that you're buying. But, exactly what is a home inspection and why is it so important to schedule before you buy?
A home inspector comes into the home to provide a visual inspection of the structure of the property as well as all the major systems in the home, like the plumbing system and the roof and foundation. Inspectors check out the electrical components of the house, the attic, windows, doors, insulation, and more. Problems are easy to miss when you're buying a home. The visual appeal oftentimes wins over the heart before the chance to learn if the home is really worthwhile has been made. This may cause you to spend money on a home that just isn't worth the expenditure.
After the inspection, the inspector provides a detailed report of his findings. You receive a copy of the report to use to help decide if the home is worth the price or if you should start making negotiations. Since this is a major investment, scheduling home inspections worcester ma protects you and your invention to the fullest. It doesn't matter the size or the style of home you're buying; you need this home inspection to ensure that you're spending your money the right way. With the information you get from the inspection report, you can minimize spending more money than you should and avoid hassles and headaches once the purchase is complete.


So you've got a Big Between. I get it. Everything in you wants to watch all one thousand seasons of ER on Hulu and eat chips on the couch while wearing your pajamas. I beg you not to. (Also, the pants that currently fit you called and asked that I intervene before they become the pants that no longer fit.) Rather than trying to kill that time before your Next Door opens, put it to work for you. And if you don't, my mom will.
There are always people on this planet who need a little help AND people like my mom who can think up something for you to do. My mom puts people to work baking casseroles and cutting up fruit for the funerals in the parish. Your local assisted living center could use someone to call Bingo and give the regular ladies a break. Start a short-term project collecting old towels for the SPCA. Adopt a beach for a few weeks and pick up trash. Attend other people's charity functions and swell their numbers. And tip your barista, would you? They do so much for the underbusy of the world.
If you have a family who is not too far off the dysfunctional family scale (all families are pretty much dysfunctional in one way or another), put on your red riding hood, steel yourself against wolves, and go visit them for a day. Watch an episode of Finding Your Roots on PBS and get all inspired to learn about your family history. If your family is far flung, think ROAD TRIP. Take your cousin and your aunt to lunch. Besides, your grandma called my mom and says she misses you.
According to the Pew Research Center, Americans who do not identify with any religious organization are the fastest growing group. That does not mean you don't have a spiritual side. Maybe these next few months are a time you give meditation a real try, go on retreat, read Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning. Maybe you go to hot yoga 30 days in a row and do a juice cleanse. Maybe, just maybe, you go back to the origins or source book for your particular faith. I've heard it is very good for the heart. Or is it the soul?
If you really want to get all virtuous, do something really hard—like quit smoking. Take a class. See a hypnotist. Join a group. I thank you. Your heart thanks you. And my mom especially thanks you.
Doing one of these projects is not going to feel that good at first—your Big Between is weighing you down. Reframe the way you look at it. Polish it up. And you can look back at this time with a lot of well-earned pride.


text:
Some tips from booksellers to booksellers on credit card security
Internet fraud is a serious concern for every bookseller these days. As a result of a number of reported scams which affected ILAB booksellers worldwide, ILAB has put together some best practice guidelines from booksellers for booksellers.
No Deal and Hard Brexit Advice for Rare Bookdealers
In politically uncertain times, the British Antiquarian Booksellers Association has put together some very useful guidelines on the import & export of books.
The 2019 Boston Book Fair announces highlights and events!
The annual fall gathering for booklovers, the Boston International Antiquarian Book Fair returns to the Hynes Convention Center in Boston's beautiful Back Bay for its 43rd year, November 15-17, 2019.
"Fair and just?" The German arts and rare book trade discuss provenance and restitution
A report by Dr. Barbara van Benthem about a highly interesting seminar, organised by the German umbrella organisation for the arts trade, IG Kunsthandel, which took place last week in Munich.
Booksellers Anecdotes
PODCAST by Slightly Foxed Magazine: Speaking to Chris Saunders of Henry Sotheran's on the joys of the antiquarian book world yesterday and today
The editors of the UK literary magazine Slightly Foxed recently spoke to Chris Saunders of Sotheran's London, the world's oldest antiquarian bookshop.
New US tariffs on products of Germany or the UK & its effects on the rare book trade
Message from ILAB President Sally Burdon to all ILAB affiliates in relation to the recently announced tariffs on Products of Germany or the United Kingdom.
"The Booksellers" - A Tribute to New York's Book Trade is out!
Years in the making, the documentary on New York's book trade premiered this week at the New York Film Festival and is off to a fantastic start!
John Lawson - Obituary by Nicolas Barker
It is with great sadness that we have to announce the death of John Lawson, who served as ILAB Vice President from 1979 - 1981 and as ILAB President from 1982 - 1984.
Amsterdam 2019 & The new Joint Dutch Catalogue
One of Europe's highlights in the fair calendar, the Amsterdam International Antiquarian Book & Map Fair opens this weekend!
Glub
In the week leading up to this year's New York International Antiquarian Book Fair, and its two "shadow" fairs, I'd been in a state of preternatural excitement. Two promoters - Marvin Getman of Impact Events Group and John and Tina Bruno of Flamingo Eventz – were going head to head for supremacy in the satellite book fair market. First Getman crashed the Bruno's turf by scheduling a rival New York shadow show, then the Brunos trumped Getman by moving their shadow show to a new location just across Lexington Ave. from the big show at the Park Avenue Armory. Cold war ensued. It began to get nasty, and I became increasingly excited by the steady stream of blog fodder. There could not be two more different promoters – in terms of personality, management style, and business practices – than Getman and the Brunos. By last Friday night I'd half convinced myself that their collision would result in a black hole of such magnitude that the entire trade would be sucked behind an unbreachable event horizon, allowing us all to go home and rake our lawns. But something else happened. Or maybe I should say nothing happened.
"He knows rare books. He knows how to sell rare books" - A Wake For The Still Alive: Peter B. Howard, Part 5
It was 1967 and I was just three months an employee of Jake Zeitlin's "Big Red Barn" bookstore, Zeitlin and Ver Brugge, and knew nothing. I guess that we received a list or catalogue offering rare books for sale (computers and the internet hadn't been thought of, at least not in the book business) and I had ordered (for all of $40 if memory serves correctly) an Advance Proof Copy of Bertrand Russell's Satan in the Suburbs. I was just beginning to collect Russell and, of course, had no idea what an Advance Proof Copy of anything looked like! It turned out to be not unlike an ordinary small paperback, but it was an Advance Proof Copy, and it impressed me beyond measure!
The new Plantin-Moretus Museum in Antwerp – "The Book is Central"
On 30 September 2016, one of the most treasured places for printing history and the history of the book re-opened after extensive renovations, the new Plantin-Moretus Museum. Various festivities accompanied the opening on three consecutive days and invited the public to take part in the fascinating history of the museum.
The new museum takes the visitor on a unique journey of the life and legacy of the publisher Christoffel Plantin and his inlaws Moretus whose achievements had put Antwerp on the map. The biggest authors and scientists of their time found their way to Antwerp's Vrijdagmarkt and Plantin was able to spread their ideas throughout the world.
2008 - Madrid
The Congress of the ILAB and the International Antiquarian Book Fair took place in Madrid from September 8th to 13th, 2008, with the Honour Presidence of the S.S. A.A. R.R. Principes de Asturias.
Collecting Rare Books and First Editions - Why California Isn't Called "Nova Albion"
On June 17, 1579, Francis Drake claimed California for England. He anchored his ship, the Golden Hind, just north of present-day San Francisco and named the new territory "Nova Albion." But despite Drake's claim in the name of Queen Elizabeth I, he was not the first European to explore California.
Bibliographies - Economics
Online: Rodet, Catalogue des livres de la bibliothèque d'économie politique - Sempere y Guarinos; Biblioteca española, 4 volumes


text:
using Microsoft.AspNetCore.Http;
using Microsoft.AspNetCore.Routing;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Threading.Tasks;

namespace Orchard.Hosting
{
    public class OrchardMiddleware
    {
        private readonly RequestDelegate _next;

        public OrchardMiddleware(RequestDelegate next)
        {
            _next = next;
        }

        public async Task Invoke(HttpContext httpContext)
        {
            // Same logic as in https://github.com/aspnet/Routing/blob/dev/src/Microsoft.AspNetCore.Routing/RouterMiddleware.cs

            var context = httpContext.Items["orchard.middleware.context"] as RouteContext;
            var routes = httpContext.Items["orchard.middleware.routes"] as IEnumerable<IRouter>;

            // Process each route in order
            foreach (var route in routes)
            {
                await route.RouteAsync(context);

                if (context.Handler != null)
                {
                    httpContext.Features[typeof(IRoutingFeature)] = new RoutingFeature()
                    {
                        RouteData = context.RouteData,
                    };

                    await context.Handler(context.HttpContext);

                    return;
                }
            }

            // Request did not match this route
            await _next.Invoke(httpContext);
        }

        private class RoutingFeature : IRoutingFeature
        {
            public RouteData RouteData { get; set; }
        }
    }
}

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaGithub