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~Hakurei Shrine~ => Help Me, Eirin! => Topic started by: Tao-Sensei on December 30, 2012, 08:40:22 pm
Title: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
Post by: Tao-Sensei on December 30, 2012, 08:40:22 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/BPcYZl.jpg)
(Go Forza! (https://twitter.com/NForza26/status/285297010142240769))
Old thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13556.0.html).
Official site (http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/index.html).
Video of some spellcards! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DD_Ltzijy8)
Anyways, the demo for Hopeless Masquerade, the 13.5th Touhou game is, is finally released! There are three demo characters available, which are Reimu, Marisa, and Ichirin. I think the game is really fun, and has some very interesting mechanics. One thing I found interesting was the popularity meter, being that the game is all about the popularity of religions, and how the person with the highest percent of popularity wins if the timer run out. I can't wait to see who else gets in the game, and the fact that Shou and Byakuren are both not in the backround of the Palaquin ship stage when everyone else is makes me somewhat suspicious...
Title: Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心綺楼 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
Post by: Tiamat on December 31, 2012, 01:15:20 am
Quote from: Tao-Sensei on December 30, 2012, 08:40:22 pm
I can't wait to see who else gets in the game, and the fact that Shou and Byakuren are both not in the backround of the Palaquin ship stage when everyone else is makes me somewhat suspicious...
Based on the introduction (which Unzan was also in, IIRC), I think there's a high likelihood that the other playable characters are Shou, Byakuran, Miko, Futo, and Seiga (er, someone said she was there? She'll probably have Yoshika as an assist). That makes for 3 Myouren characters and 3 Taoists, which seems about right, to me.
I also highly expect Sanai to be there. It'd be... odd if Kanako's group didn't get any representation, after all. Still, this isn't entirely certain.
I'm hoping Kogasa will be a hidden character, as a surprise :P Also, while I usually say it as a joke, if there were ever a game story for Meiling to be shown as a dragon and Mima as the Hakurei Shrine Goddess, this would be the best chance for that. HIGHLY doubtful, of course, but if there's any chance at all, this would be one of the most opportune ones, I think. At least, for Mima. That said, the voice in the prologue doesn't seem to match Mima's personality, so it's probably a new character
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on December 31, 2012, 01:17:24 am
So... I herd you wanted combo vids (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aP9TQwVlGY)
Post by: _cf on December 31, 2012, 01:25:13 am
I can't get enough of Ichirin's opening(s), idle pose and AAAA combo. So shounen!
Post by: teefa85 on December 31, 2012, 01:40:42 am
Marisa's broom surfing makes me think of her as being an extreme sports junkie. Which is now becoming my new, amusing headcanon.
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on December 31, 2012, 01:47:27 am
Sounds perfectly Marisa-ish to me.
Post by: Amraphenson on December 31, 2012, 01:54:59 am
I warned you about the starfall crossups. I warned you.
Post by: KrackoCloud on December 31, 2012, 02:40:20 am
I noticed that different equipment settings have duplicate skills for different directions. Does this level up the skill/spell or something?
Post by: Suikama on December 31, 2012, 02:42:29 am
certain skills have different properties depending on which direction you set them to
for instance Ichirin's giant punch from the sky special when set to back special will place the fist right in front of you, having it as down will put it farther in front, and having it as forward puts it way out in front of you
Ooh. That makes more sense.
Post by: Aya Reiko on December 31, 2012, 03:25:08 am
Just thought of this, but there may be another possible member of the Taoist faction, someone who is conspicuously missing from the group at the Hakurei Shrine. And seeing how China is (er... was) a Taoist nation...
Part of me suspects one of the playable characters will be Hong Meiling.
Post by: SeasideCharizard on December 31, 2012, 03:40:47 am
Quote from: Magic on December 31, 2012, 01:17:24 am
And (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQaMBHNmDiU) then (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SU2flg_Bv7M) some. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5p3cc-h-Jo)
Post by: iK on December 31, 2012, 03:54:52 am
Does everyone have a rundown on the different variations on specials?
Reimu's 2Skill2 seems pretty great for continually harassing while diving, 6Skill2 allows for easy followups, and 8Skill2 obviously has the high damage output, while 4Skill2 doesn't seem very useful. Does it have the best invincibility or something?
Chain combos are really difficult when half the time your hitbox ends up above or below the enemy.
And how strict is the timing for simultaneous presses? It seems to have to happen on the exact same frame or it just causes one of your standard attacks to come out.
Post by: Formless God on December 31, 2012, 03:57:27 am
Oh shit I'm actually looking forward to this now
The inertia needs to go, though.
Post by: Sungho on December 31, 2012, 04:02:55 am
About simultaneous presses, I don't think it's strict at all.
One of your normal attacks come out when you don't have enough MP.
Quote from: iK on December 31, 2012, 03:54:52 am
If you mean for X + Y and A + B, I couldn't even get them to come out and I ended up just using the combined button, so I would say it's about that strict.
If you mean for specials though, it's not strict at all considering you can kinda hold the direction to do it.
Post by: Phlegeth on December 31, 2012, 04:26:36 am
From the old thread
Quote from: Sungho
Marisa's Full-Speed Dash B attack should be made into a gif or something.
Cartwheel powaa, da ze!
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on December 31, 2012, 04:37:46 am
One thing I found interesting was the popularity meter, being that the game is all about the popularity of religions, and how the person with the highest percent of popularity wins if the timer run out.
This thing of popularity meter reminds me some reality shows, Big Brother Touhou :V
Anyway someone knows how this system works? I saw a "yes" and "no" gauge close to the character's photo and its life bar.
Post by: cuc on December 31, 2012, 04:42:46 am
I've been banging my head on how to translate Marisa's special ability "三度目の粉饰魔". Just now I found out it's a reference to the Republicans' nickname for Al Gore, "serial embellisher".
So Marisa's ability is something like "The Third-Time Embellisher", "The Third-Offense Embellisher" or even "The Third-Strike Embellisher", since there's a "three strikes rule" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_strikes_law) in American criminal law.
It's very far from something everyone knows in Japan, and in fact all related Japanese search results on the internet are the same passage of text. I'm really surprised to see ZUN make an American election joke out of the blue. The Something Awful people got it right when they figured out the popularity system, and immediately linked it to the presidential election.
Post by: Valzion on December 31, 2012, 04:45:17 am
I've taken it upon myself to write a guide of sorts to those who need it / don't understand how to play yet.
There are six face buttons in total. Since I assume you're using a keyboard, I'll use the keyboard buttons instead of the gamepad buttons.
Z - Light Melee Attack
X - Heavy Melee Attack
C (Z+X) - Special Button 1
A - Light Danmaku Attack
S - Heavy Danmaku Attack
D - Special Button 2
The special buttons have four different functions to them. Your special moves, Spell Cards, and Last Words are all activated using the corresponding special button + any direction, and you may customize which specials / spell cards are activated by pressing whichever direction + whichever button you may want, and you may do so for each individual character. It's sort of like Super Smash Bros., except you have two buttons for a total of 8 specials instead of one button.
C/D+Up
C/D+Down
C/D+Left
C/D+Right
The bar at the bottom of your screen is your stamina. You require stamina in order to use special moves. Blocking (I think) gradually decreases your maximum stamina.
In order to use a Spell Card, the blue portion of your health bar must be completely covering the white portion, then you have to press the Special Button + Direction of the spell card you want. Entering the button combination once 'declares' that you are using the spell card. The background will get all fancy and you'll be glowing slightly. Using the combination again performs the spell card. Spell Cards (on the character customization screen) has a shinier outline than normal cards, so whichever combination you set the shiny cards to, those will be the combination required to use Spell Cards.
There is a favor percentage below your health. It can go up to 100% and down to -100%. Favor is what wins you the game if you fail to deplete your opponents health. Once you have 100% Favor, you will be able to use your Last Word. Last Word cards (on the character customization screen) has a red outline, so whichever button combination you set your red card to, that will be the combination required to use Last Word.
With the Last Word, there is no need to 'declare' the attack. It will automatically use the Last Word the first time you enter the combination, so be careful not to get confused.
Character-Specifics
Each character has their own passive ability. There are different ways to use these passive abilities depending on which character you are using. Since there are only three characters for now, I will go over the ones I know.
Marisa - She has the ability to augment every fourth spell she uses into a more powerful version of that spell. Every time you use a spell, one star (out of three) at corner of your stamina bar fills up. When you have three stars, the next spell you use is more powerful, and the stars return to emptiness.
Ichirin - She has the ability to enter a rage mode of sorts. When you take damage (or take hits in general, I think blocking works too), the Japanese symbol at the corner of your stamina bar grows larger and redder. When it gets large and red enough, it starts to flame, and Ichirin and her cloud will turn red. During this mode, (I believe) your attacks are stronger (at least it feels like they are).
Reimu - I have no idea what her orbs do right now. Needs confirmation. She can, however, jump from one side of the screen to the other by double tapping towards the edge of the screen.
I will now explain the Profile menu.
In order, the list is (according to what they do, not what they are actually named):
Customize Characters
Profile Icon
Copy Profile
Rename Profile
By pressing the F buttons while in a match, different effects occur:
F1 - Instantly gives your player 100% Favor and your opponent -100%
F2 - Same as above, but swapped for Player 2.
F3 - No clue as of yet (something about guarding, from very weird testing)
F4 - Turns on Practice Mode, In which your Health recovers after being hit and your stamina recovers faster than normal. It also gives you a full special bar.
F5 - Sets the maximum health during practice mode.
F6 - Sets the maximum stamina during practice mode.
Quote from: Kwr32 on December 31, 2012, 04:04:06 am
I meant the button presses yeah.
Smash Bros. has me very accustomed to directional specials lol
On popularity: Rushing forward builds slight approval (Think Guilty Gear Tension), while continuously retreating builds a negative penalty. Landing hits seems to build high approval, while getting hit grants slight disapproval . High-power hits grant more approval. First hit sways the approval by a fair amount. Counter hits incur a great negative penalty for the receiver, while they grant high approval for the attacker, and you get more negative if you get countered when doing higher-powered moves. Getting countered when doing a Last Word resets your approval to +/- 0% as per usual, but grants your opponent something like +50%.
So basically, greater risk = greater approval if it works, but greater penalty if it doesn't.
On Reimu's Ability: She seems to have taken the liberty of stealing Yukari's wall-teleport for this game.
Post by: Gpop on December 31, 2012, 05:14:18 am
So I've learned bnbs for both Reimu and Ichirin. Ichirin seems more like a hard hitting slow character, while Reimu is more balanced for me so I guess she's once again my main until the full game comes out :V
What do the red and blue auras do? They seem to appear whenever I have too much of the corresponding color on the gauge. My Blazing Star also seems to do less damage during red, but I'm not fully sure.
Post by: ProjectMars on December 31, 2012, 06:04:37 am
Quote from: Tiamat on December 31, 2012, 01:15:20 am
I did mention it, yes. Although looking at it again... I may have gotten it wrong due to the hair not looking entirely like Seiga's, Someone also mentioned a fourth side (humans, which marisa is on.) in the old thread, which made me notice something else interesting though. Here's a picture with numbers beside them:
(http://i.imgur.com/4X51R.jpg?1)
1. Byakuren
2. Shou
3. Reimu
4. Unzan
5. Miko
6. Futo
7. Seiga
8. Hakutaku. Considering there's kinda only one Hakutaku in Gensokyo... This may mean Keine in?
Incidentally, there is a person on there (unnumbered due to just now noticing) that resembles kaguya, but that's prolly coincidental. However I could totally see Tewi trying to come up with a religion scam. Church of Inabaology?
Quote from: Formless Void on December 31, 2012, 05:45:28 am
I think they cause effects in terms of damage reduction or increase, but I'm not sure either.
Quote from: ProjectMars on December 31, 2012, 06:04:37 am
Church of Inabaology?
It can fit a hundred people just fine. :getdown:
Definitely sounds like Tewi, though. She's an Ancient Duper for a reason, after all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VWV4XlyAMA
Marisa BnB for 2.9k, pretty simple, works anywhere. Taken from that combo video, but surprisingly it works anywhere.
Blue aura lets you make certain cancels, like 5b into 2b.
Not sure what red does.
in terms of using the button macros or just pressing two at once, I honestly find it less confusing to just press two at once instead of having to keep track of six buttons.
Increases Attack Chaining Routes.(or more simply, lets you make certain cancels)
Increases Spirit Regen.
The third one, I think it is Chip Damage Up. Either that or Increases Enemy's Spirit Depletion on Guarding.
Red Aura
Decreases Spirit Regen.
Increases Spirit Depletion on Guarding.
Post by: ceiling hat on December 31, 2012, 08:24:21 am
The 13.5 experience:
Oh shit, the timer is almost down.
omg attack attack derp derp derp derp
I lose almost all of my life.
The opponent has 80% life.
Timer runs out.
I win due to approval.
Post by: TheNewGuy on December 31, 2012, 08:36:35 am
Not Seiga, that's http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/nio.shtml#kongo
I've been updating wiki.rei.mu with combos for Ichirin.
So far I came up with 5AAA 8A 4C 3 5B 2C (4C in corner), 2.7K, 100% Stun
And 8B 4C 3 5B 4C
Post by: Yonowaaru on December 31, 2012, 10:23:20 am
Oh, this is fun. I just managed to use one of Ichirin's Spell Cards, which was called something along the lines of 'unoverlookable cloud'
Which spawned this huge mist that I think increased my damage or something. Either way, when I won Ichirin put that hat from the icon on Unzan.
I still have no idea what it is, but it looks Mexican.
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on December 31, 2012, 11:36:48 am
Here you go. (http://i49.tinypic.com/2i2c6u.gif) :V
Post by: Mr. Sacchi on December 31, 2012, 11:43:14 am
Also just a quick tidbit: Declaring a spellcard freezes the timer.
Double Declaring also resets the time you have to actually use the spellcard.
So if you have like 5 secs on the clock left and you're losing due to approval, you can just declare and try to get your approval then.
If that's not enough, double declarations.
This is also something for people to keep in mind if they're winning by approval but want to declare for whatever reason.
Post by: shadowbringer on December 31, 2012, 11:50:20 am
- people still need to stop assuming that people in the stages' background are certainly not going to become playable later.
- Nuns in fighting games aren't.. *that* uncommon (MB, AH)
- @ Ruro: Mima preceded fairies overall. She even preceded the Touhou shmups. :V
- if Mima is in the game, I'd like her to have the Black Heart-inspired (from Garegga, not MvsC1 or when's Marvel) vulcan sweep she had in SoEW :D
- even if Mima's not going to be playable, "just" being a boss would be enough (for now).. as long as she has EXAMU boss syndrome*
*wastes 15+ continues on Arcana Heart 3's Score Attack mode, on the last boss only*
*wastes 15+ continues on Aquapazza's Story mode (lvl 8), on the last boss only*
*wastes 20+ continues on AP's Another Story mode (lvl 8), on the last boss only*
Post by: iK on December 31, 2012, 02:09:12 pm
I don't understand all this focus on combos and bnbs and all that nonsense.
Whatever happened to spacing being the most important part of a fighting game?
Post by: Amraphenson on December 31, 2012, 05:13:15 pm
better combos lead to better spacing which leads to better play in general. A stun combo from anywhere in the screen means your opponent has to be careful no matter where they are, or else they get wrecked, which leads to different spacing. Even if your spacing is good you can't ignore combos, simply because someone who can't finish their plate will get screwed over pretty bad.
Post by: Suikama on December 31, 2012, 06:51:51 pm
Quote from: iK on December 31, 2012, 02:09:12 pm
it's easier to talk about combos than spacing
Ichirin has trouble threatening the space in right in front of her because of how laggy her moves are. Marisa has no issues with just threatening everything in front of her because of laser sniping and the ridiculous hitbox on her 8b, 5b, and 2b, not to mention broomslash and potions. Throwing out a bullet move near her is also a bad idea because broomride special eats projectiles. Reimu can't really be caught, but in comparison she also doesn't have a whole lot of tools to help her stay in imo. Could be wrong about Reimu, I haven't tested many of her options yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf6JuXCUvEI&feature=youtu.be
Like Third Strike, it's possible to continue to damage an enemy even after you've hit the 100% limit bar for a VERY short amount of time. Example above is with Marisa's x bullets into a broomslash for a considerable +50% total damage, with the same end result. Broomride special suffices when the enemy is a little farther, and 6potion toss works for anything further than that.
Post by: Gpop on December 31, 2012, 07:43:52 pm
Quote from: Valzion on December 31, 2012, 10:03:20 am
I remember they did the exact same combo in the livestream, except it was 2A instead of 8A, so it was down instead of up.
Post by: Sanger Zonvolt on December 31, 2012, 07:54:05 pm
So played it quite a bit, and despite a few glitches here and there in the demo, this game is awesome.
Far better than previous fighting games in my opinion, attacks have impact, and Touhous explode when they lose just like the games and it's always so satisfying to seem, and there is actually a timer.
It also looks really good.
Post by: KrackoCloud on December 31, 2012, 09:06:45 pm
I just realized... Murasa is a spectator.
My hopes and dreams are crushed.
Post by: Stuffman on December 31, 2012, 09:13:25 pm
Quote from: shadowbringer on December 31, 2012, 11:50:20 am
Honestly it's a safe assumption when you look at who's NOT in the backgrounds, i.e. Shou and Byakuren not in the UFO stage, thus likely playable.
Post by: Tiamat on December 31, 2012, 09:22:50 pm
Yea. It's certainly not guaranteed, but so far all the characters that have appeared in the backgrounds are ones that I really didn't expect to be playable in the game in the first place anyways (or, in Nue and Murasa's case, were ones that, while possible, I didn't really mark as particularly probable). Considering that the game has an all-new engine and all-new sprites, it's a pretty safe assumption that the first game in this "series" will have a limited character roster, and thus one likely restricted to the characters relevant to its stated storyline premise. And we already have an intro which seems to be a decently safe assumption as well as to what characters will probably be in, and so far it and the "background assumption" seem to work hand in hand with each other.
With the characters in the intro being very probable and Ichirin confirmed to be in, the odds of Murasa, Nazrin, or Nue being playable in a game that will likely have a limited roster would have been low even if they weren't shown in a background, I think.
So i herd u liek combo vidz (http://youtu.be/XXCrGQ9Duv8)
(I was bored so I made a quick one :V)
Post by: Tengukami on December 31, 2012, 09:24:42 pm
Quote from: Tiamat on December 31, 2012, 09:22:50 pm
And that's a whole lotta assumptionating!
Post by: blabla1994 on December 31, 2012, 10:42:06 pm
Welp, after getting over my depression about being really bad at fighting games (why cpu why.) I moved on, and decided I really like the new mechanics, the floatyness made it feel a lot more like a Touhou game to me then the other games did.
Post by: FenixStryk on December 31, 2012, 11:21:14 pm
Day 1 combo videos are great, but they're not my thing. I did, however, take it upon myself to answer a... similar, question:
"What is the easiest, shortest combo possible that guarantees a stun?"
As it so turns out, my answer to that question is a 3-button combo that starts off of a poke, works almost anywhere and combos into Master Spark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVhUssmb8Yk). Details/notation in the video description. If you're completely hopeless and don't know how to combo, this is... a mediocre yet passable place to start.
Post by: Amraphenson on January 01, 2013, 12:52:22 am
Good find. Gonna have to steal that, though the spirit cost is sorta disconcerting.
edit: nevermind, not really a pain to have that much spirit. Addendum: if you're anywhere near 50% and Marisa confirms a combo on you with blue bar, gg.
Post by: Aya Reiko on January 01, 2013, 01:54:30 am
How do you fire off the "last word" attacks? I'm stumped. :S
You have to be at 100% approval, then input whatever you set your last word to. For Marisa and Reimu, it's default to 8x+c, or up+both bullets. Ichirin's is 6x+c by default, or forward+both bullets
Post by: Bát Vân Tử on January 01, 2013, 02:32:37 am
Quote from: Aya Reiko on January 01, 2013, 01:54:30 am
First, get a Last Words spell in your special attacks by going to Profile (the LW spell would have a red outline, usually the last on in the spell card list)
Second, while playing get the approval to 100%, it would be easy to raise it up by doing a lot of punishes, or counter hits.
Third, when your approval is 100%, declare it like any other spell card, you should have a golden glow aura.
Reimu's LW is a counter skill, so you have to time it precisely.
Btw, about what people think Unzan's hat, I didn't go through this thread discussion but I assumed nobody had clarified on this. It is apparently not a hat but an wood instrument used in religious rituals (Buddhism or Taoism).
It is called ... er ... "Wooden Fish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wooden_fish)", a little weird I guess. The name is related to a story in Buddhism. Sorry if this was brought up during the discussion.
Post by: Dweller on January 01, 2013, 03:05:13 am
Good to see that Unzan is a playable character (with Ichirin as his hitbox again) (yes I'm joking)
Reimu's LW needs to be used when the enemy uses a melee skill (like Sakuya's perfect maid in the previous fighter games)
Marisas' LW needs to connect with its kick
Ichirin just does what Ichirin does best and lets Unzan do the heavy hitting (her LW just summons Unzan. Unzan does most of the fighting anyway :3 )
Nice to see that her Dash B attack is her Flying Doombutt attack. I wonder if she's wearing her bulletproof bloomers...
Post by: Bias Bus on January 01, 2013, 09:11:32 am
You can apparently glitch yourself into freezing the game if you finish someone into exploding (I'm guessing kill'em with a special move or something) -just- as the clock hits zero. Did it entirely by accident to Reimu with Ichirin's grab attack and I've been stuck ever since. :V
Well, stuck until I restarted anyway.
That said, I know who I'm maining when the full game comes out~
Post by: Clarste on January 01, 2013, 10:19:25 am
Quote from: Gourmandbus on January 01, 2013, 09:11:32 am
They always explode if you win with a KO in the final round.
Post by: game2011 on January 01, 2013, 11:06:51 am
Anyone know when we will get more news or a new demo after this?
Post by: Error on January 01, 2013, 02:13:55 pm
Eh, I haven't noticed Kyouko anywhere (or even mentioned, for that matter...)
Perhaps she'll be playable?
Post by: game2011 on January 01, 2013, 02:36:25 pm
Not in the background =/= playable.
Post by: Pepperized on January 01, 2013, 04:59:24 pm
Maybe these spectators are only in the demo. But that's just wishful thinking.
:colonveeplusalpha: I just wanted my alien girl.
Post by: Iced Fairy on January 01, 2013, 05:15:35 pm
Some of my notes for popularity to add on:
The percent is determined by blue (hai) minus red (iie). So popularity increases faster as you convert red to blue.
Counters are +5%, -5%. I couldn't seem to get the bonus with light melee attacks, but all the other buttons worked.
Wall/Ceiling/Floor slams all give +1/-1.
Moving forward gives bonuses over time.
Pressuring your opponent gives a bonus. If you keep your opponent in the upper or lower parts of the screen you get 1% over time. This may also work if you keep your opponent at the side. Being pressured incurs a penalty.
Damaging your opponent gives a slight boost.
Being damaged has no penalty. However if you're taking damage you're usually being wall slammed, countered or pressured.
Spell Card declaration gets you 5% No strings attached.
Whiffing with a spellcard gets you a penalty. Don't miss.
Using your last word sets you to 50% hai/50% iie hit or miss (unless you win). So you're at 0% for victory, but can recover fast.
2nd round KO with Marisa's last word didn't lead to an explosion. The others might not either.
Post by: iK on January 01, 2013, 09:12:35 pm
Thanks for the elaboration and clarification, Iced. No training mode makes it hard to get lab stuff in, so the information is greatly appreciated, I assure you.
Quote from: Error on January 01, 2013, 02:13:55 pm
There's also only two stages in the demo.
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n302/Kink-Link5/office_space_kit_mat.jpg)
That being said, :P
Just tested it. Apparently only Marisa's Last word keeps the target from exploding.
Post by: PapillonReel on January 01, 2013, 10:02:58 pm
I'm betting on Kyouko and Mystia showing up as background characters in that punk band of theirs. I doubt they'll be playable, however.
Kogasa, however, I can easily see making it in. She's pretty much Cirno 2.0 at this point, considering how often she's shown up in games since her debut.
Well, yeah, I don't expect to see Yuuka or Parsee as a playable character.
I just suggested Kyouko since she's part of the Buddhist faction, and wasn't present on Ichirin's stage.
Post by: Amraphenson on January 01, 2013, 10:06:21 pm
Quote from: iK on January 01, 2013, 09:12:35 pm
as mentioned earlier, pressing F4 while in vs Player turns on training mode.
Post by: fondue on January 01, 2013, 10:15:53 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoCKD2AGIU4
Video of me playing the trial. Go Raymoo!
Post by: KrackoCloud on January 01, 2013, 10:38:25 pm
What do each of the characters' items do?
Post by: ceiling hat on January 01, 2013, 10:41:31 pm
So the Config menu is:
1. BGM
2. SE
3. Windowed/Fullscreen
4. Full framerate/half framerate
5. ???
6. Show FPS
7. Autosave replay settings
What is 5 ?
Post by: Sungho on January 01, 2013, 11:05:06 pm
The fifth option in the Config is Vertical Sync.
And the items, http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Hopeless_Masquerade/Spell_Cards/Items
th075 had [Reimu Marisa Alice] [Patchouli Sakuya Remilia] [Youmu Yuyuko Yukari] + Suika,
so th135 should have [Reimu Marisa Keine] [Ichirin Shou Byakuren] [Kasen Seiga Futo Miko] + Final Boss.
Post by: Limian on January 02, 2013, 12:00:41 am
Quote from: Sungho on January 01, 2013, 11:05:06 pm
Reimu does not represent the human faction, she's part of the Shinto faction along with probably Sanae and either (or both) of Kanako and Suwako. 3 or 4 characters per religious faction sounds good, with possibly Tojiko for the Taos and Kyouko or whoever for the Buddhists (I don't think Mamizou or Kogasa have much interest in Buddhism).
The human faction sounds like a way to shoehorn Marisa in, but it would be awesome (albeit unlikely) if characters like Keine or Mokou or, hell, Akyuu (although I doubt her interest in fighting) made it in.
What faction would Kasen actually belong to?
Post by: KrackoCloud on January 02, 2013, 12:45:09 am
In the items page, only three factions are listed - naturally, Shinto, Tao, and Buddhist. I don't think there's going to be a human faction. My guess is Marisa's there just because Marisa.
Also consider that the character selection page doesn't have a character grid, but works like IaMP. If it stays this way, we can probably assume there's a smaller roster for the game, so extra non-faction characters could be very limited.
Post by: Sungho on January 02, 2013, 12:45:45 am
Looking through the introduction again, I realized that not having a Moriya Shrine character is very unlikely. My mistake.
Kasen is a hermit, so she should be in the Taoism faction.
Post by: Hinacle on January 02, 2013, 01:22:20 am
Quote from: PapillonReel on January 01, 2013, 10:02:58 pm
Oh god, I'm hoping they appear with a stage below them and Kyouko is head-banging and Mystia is just plain jumping around. :3
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on January 02, 2013, 01:50:50 am
Quote from: Drizzly Magician on December 31, 2012, 11:36:48 am
Reimu: Marisa DO A BARREL ROLL!
Marisa: *Spins*
Reimu: ouch!
Quote from: KrackoCloud on January 02, 2013, 12:45:09 am
According to the wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Characters/Titles#Main_Characters), she is "The Human Representative Magician" (compare to Reimu, "The Advocate of the Eight Million", and Ichirin, "The Overwhelming Youkai Ascetic"), although it essentially boils down to the same thing: because Marisa.
Post by: Sagus on January 02, 2013, 03:32:29 am
...err. She appeared in three games; UFO, Double Spoiler (which everyone from after MoF appears anyway), and Ten Desires. That's hardly Cirno 2.0; Nue has appeared in the same three games, for one.
That said, she appearing because of "SURPRISE" wouldn't be too farfetched.
Post by: Tiamat on January 02, 2013, 03:40:03 am
The funny thing about Kogasa is that the fact that her being in the game would make no sense considering the game's storyline possibly increases her chances of being in the game.
On a random aside, I also find it cute that Ichirin was the very next character revealed/programmed in after the obligatory Reimu and Marisa, as if the developers just couldn't wait to create her (or perhaps, couldn't wait to create Unzan). Gonna be hard to top her with any other character from here on, I'd think.
Post by: iK on January 02, 2013, 03:40:47 am
Cirno appeared in 2 games before becoming playable, and in 3 before she got her own game.
Post by: Gpop on January 02, 2013, 05:51:41 am
Quote from: iK on January 02, 2013, 03:40:47 am
Actually 5 before she got her own game
EoSD, PCB, PoFV, StB, and Soku.
Thought GFW came before soku, and forgot about STB entirely but thanks for the clarification.
Post by: Kilgamayan on January 02, 2013, 02:45:25 pm
I don't have a link handy (phoneposting), but I recall an intro video for HM where Tenshi guided the viewer through the game. Given that, I think it's entirely possible she'll show up too.
Post by: Critz on January 02, 2013, 03:06:51 pm
You mean this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N4whbNL6Ng (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N4whbNL6Ng)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cqJ_YdMMN8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cqJ_YdMMN8)
Is that even official?
Post by: _cf on January 02, 2013, 06:00:04 pm
Regarding the character line-up, aren't we forgetting Mamizou? She was brought in to be a reinforcement against Miko, but never had a chance to do her thing. From a storytelling perspective, Mamizou still didn't fulfill her objective.
Of course, she's also very laid back and can decide to Take It Easy™ and let the religious brawldebates to people who care. Still, it'd be cool to see Mamizou again, specially if her theme is also remixed like Ichirin's.
Post by: Gpop on January 02, 2013, 06:03:26 pm
Quote from: Critz on January 02, 2013, 03:06:51 pm
Koishi confirmed for HM woo!
Hardly looks official to me!
Though somehow this made me wonder what the game would be like if it had commentators like P4A. You know, what with the popularity battle and all. It won't happen, but it would've been amusing. Make it like SMNC where once in a while the commentators just talk about random stuff without paying attention to the battle.
Post by: beatstayflow on January 03, 2013, 02:12:49 am
Please join us on #shinkirou on irc.rizon.net for general touhou 13.5 discussion, combos, and general banter as we await a full version with netplay.
Post by: monhan on January 03, 2013, 05:23:27 am
So what do you guys think about the balance so far? A lot of people seems to be complaining about Ichirin being kind of overwhelmed by the other two.
Quote from: monhan on January 03, 2013, 05:23:27 am
How to join? I don't understand.
Oh whoops, I guess you guys haven't used IRC before.
http://rizon.net/chat
In the channels part, just enter the channel name #shinkirou. No password necessary. Just enter a username. It's a live chatbox instead of a message forum.
Quote from: beatstayflow on January 03, 2013, 02:12:49 am
...and you are? ???
I'm debating if this qualifies as self-promotion, seeing as this is probably one of your first posts here. And also scanning the rules regarding that.
Post by: Clarste on January 03, 2013, 03:00:26 pm
Quote from: _cf on January 02, 2013, 06:00:04 pm
Or maybe they'll just use her as the in-game excuse for mirror matches.
My take on a realistic roster:
Confirmed: Reimu, Marisa, Ichirin
Based on the intro: Miko, Futo, Byakuren, Shou
Likely/possible choices: Sanae, Kanako/Suwako, Shizuha, Keine
Sanae should be an obvious choice for a game that concerns religion.
I don't see both Kanako and Suwako being in together, but at least one of them is likely.
SoPM says Shizuha envies Minoriko's popularity, so this is her chances to become popular.
There's what appears to be a hakutaku in the intro, which might be referring to Keine. Plus, she protects the Human Village, so it's her duty to "fight" for them or something like that.
Yeah, I can only think of those characters... There's obviously going to be more than those. Hina is a possibility as well, since the chaos happening most likely brought misfortune, so she gets into fights gathering them.
Post by: RemiShama on January 03, 2013, 03:56:50 pm
I cant play it because I have a netbook and the resolution is huuuge. T_T"
Post by: helvetica on January 03, 2013, 04:11:51 pm
It's cool, afaik we don't have a dedicated hm channel and I know mizuumi won't. If there is an hm channel on ppirc then please post the info here and I'll make sure it gets updated in the OP.
Quote from: game2011 on January 03, 2013, 03:40:41 pm
Not so sure about Shizuha and Hina.
Hina mostly stays at Youkai Mountain to keep humans out, and she herself brings bad luck on people who encounter her. SoPP says that she's not even a real god, but a kind of youkai, and doesn't require faith. As for gathering misfortune, I'd say the amount of misfortune coming out of this game isn't particularly different from any other incident.
Shizuha, well, I have doubts mainly because she's a Stage 1midboss. She really doesn't have much chance of plot significance.
Post by: Raikaria on January 03, 2013, 09:44:44 pm
Quote from: KrackoCloud on January 03, 2013, 06:48:45 pm
Cirno was a Stage 2 Boss and a Stage 1 midboss, albeit massively popular, that popularity didn't set in until PoFV anyway, with the ⑨ incident.
Mystia made it to PoFV despite being a Stage 2 boss.
Ichirin is hardly a character, she's a hitbox.
I wouldn't completely write her out, especially if she has a legitimate reason, and hasn't been shown as a Spectator.
Quote from: Raikaria on January 03, 2013, 09:44:44 pm
Well, note that all of the examples were still bosses, and Stage 2+ bosses at that. Ichirin may be a hitbox, but hitbox or not Unzan got into HM, so she was never really the problem :U
Anyway, I don't think PoFV is a good standard. I mean, you had all three Prismrivers, too! ZUN had that kind of luxury. Including characters was much easier because they didn't have boatloads of sprites and animations, and balancing wasn't as much of an issue.
Also, many of the characters you come across in PoFV have no plot significance. If you think about it, only Komachi and Shikieiki are part of the story. Everyone else you fight is just kinda... there.
Maybe this is too early to say, but HM has a more involved story that requires almost all of the characters to have something to do with the factions and popularity battles. Of course, they could still throw in extra characters, but I think that's a limited option - We've got a character selection list like IaMP, which might suggest there's a small enough number of characters that we don't need a selection grid.
There's a first time for everything, but I just can't see why ZUN and Tasogare would bother themselves to put in such an insignificant character like Shizuha, especially if they're spectator-fying the likes of Nue and Murasa (I know some are against basing assumptions on spectators, but I gotta say I think it makes sense, at least for speculation).
Of course, they could still throw in extra characters, but I think that's a limited option - We've got a character selection list like IaMP, which might suggest there's a small enough number of characters that we don't need a selection grid.
...In the demo.
Anyway, expect less, receive more. Keep expectations low in any case because, hey, if you're wrong, it will be a good thing.
Yeah, if the selection screen changes, then we could have many more characters, which is great. In the end, the conclusion is the same - we'll just have to wait and see!
I predict there'll be 4 "factions"; Native Faith, Buddist, Taoist, and Neutral. The Spell Cards of the first three will be largely geared toward making those characters stay within those factions, while "Neutral" will be given a fair bit of flexibility.
Though... There aren't many who'd be in the Taoist faction. There's Miko, Tokiko, and Futo. (Though I doubt Tokiko will make it in.) And Seiga (With Miyako likely a Spell Card for her). And perhaps Hong Meiling (She is Chinese).
Post by: Tsalop on January 04, 2013, 05:55:47 am
And perhaps Hong Meiling (She is Chinese).
Hong Meiling can't be taoist, because Ojou-sama, won't let her participate in religious rallies.
Post by: ProjectMars on January 04, 2013, 06:03:02 am
I would have to agree with this. The Grid-style selection for the SWR full game wasn't in the demo, but it did go with something different from IaMP. I can see them going with between 9 and 13 existing characters, depending on a few things, such as: do they want to have all factions with the same amount of people? (Taoism could have 1 less than the others due to being newer... and the fact that Ten Desires didn't introduce as many characters on that side as UFO did with Buddhism.) Do they want to go with 3 - 4 characters per faction? (if they want all factions to have the same amount of people, then 3 would work best.) Is there really a human faction? (This would affect which characters get in a bit more though. Worth noting that a Hakutaku *is* visible in the intro.) Are they planning a surprise? (Mystia is doing punk concerts. You gents never know what sort of plan they have.) And then on top of that add the new girl in... so...
I can see 10 - 14 characters.
Post by: Hakurou Tengu on January 04, 2013, 06:25:42 am
There's Miko, Tokiko, and Futo. (Though I doubt Tokiko will make it in.)
I don't think Tokiko will be in it either, but, damn, that would be pretty great. I've always wondered what she's been up to out of Curiosities of Lotus Asia~ Really though, I do wonder... I also don't think Tojiko will be involved, as unfortunate as it sounds.
As everyone is guessing the possible characters in the game, here is my list:
The meddling taoist:
Seiga (with Yoshika), Miko (or Tojiko as Miko is too important/busy to participate) and Futo...
The worried buddhist:
Byakuren, Shou (maybe has Nazrin with her as comical relief) + Ichirin...
Also Mamizou might appear to aid Byakuren as she did in Ten Desires.
Random native faith:
Sanae (still supported by the Suwako and Kanako), Kanako and maybe Aya (making a report again).
Then again Suwako is a good candidate as she could fight for being the main god of Moriya again,
but personally I hope that Momizi would appear.
And the rest:
Keine + Marisa and Reimu.
Maybe Alice spreading the wisdom of Makai... Yuka would be funny to see.
And for the final boss:
The true goddess of Hakurei , who is extremely pissed with Reimus lack of faith.
There's already a Neutral faction, by having a balance among the 3 factions. As for now, only Reimu can do it. Also we seem to be able to lean to 2 factions at once by balancing the point for each faction. Dunno how this affect anything for now.
Quote from: Tsalop on January 04, 2013, 06:38:46 am
I remember ZUN mentioning that Hatate will take care of reporting this, so no Aya.
I hope when they finally implement the function of the faith chart it will be more than just a status boost or something . Personally, I think it would be interesting if the faction that the character has will have an effect to the audience, for example: Characters that focuses on the Buddhist faction will have an easier time gathering appeal from the audience in the Palanquin Ship stage or maybe those from the Taoist faction will have a harder time there. Kinda like sports match in their turf. This would be a nice gimmick because the stage will be more than just background and can affect the gameplay.
Also, this is quite unlikely, but by the premise of the game, I hope the faction that the character focuses on will affect their story mode, so we'll get a branching story and multiple endings. Unlikely, but it would be nice if it is.
Regarding the characters, I guess we'll get more skill and spellcards but only one Last Word for each character. For character items, since we had no weather and got an appeal system in exchange, I'm expecting an item that can affect the appeal(this can either broke the game or make it more competitive). And besides, there's many effects that can be used, I just hope that item cards are more useful in this game than in the previous ones. Each characters also have their own special gimmicks, kinda like Blazblue, so I'm expecting lots of customization in the full game.
I'm planning on maining Ichirin, unless Byakuren got in(I'll rage if she doesn't) then Byakuren all the way.
I'm just worried how they're going to implement the 'Superhuman' spellcard. If it does what I think it does(buffing attack, defense and speed) then I hope it's her Last Word. Having it as a spellcard will be overkill, seeing how the game treats spellcard. Or maybe they'll have it as her item card which would still be convenient.
What do you think the moveset(spell cards, items, Last Word, gimmicks) of the future characters will be?
idol yamame out to get everyone's faith love with her song and music oh please make it happen it's never happening
Post by: Starxsword on January 04, 2013, 10:13:23 am
Are there going to be factions or just groups with possible factions? Reimu's bar shows that she is Tao.
Quote from: Starxsword on January 04, 2013, 10:13:23 am
Which bar?
Post by: Tiamat on January 04, 2013, 02:29:46 pm
Really? If that's true, it might tie into the plot point that Reimu's power is actually derived in part from Taoism. I think it was one of the endings in Ten Desires where Futo notes it to a surprised Reimu and the ending explicitly ended with the line, "Taoism!? Isn't it supposed to be Shinto?"
Post by: Tengukami on January 04, 2013, 02:43:59 pm
Looks like Reimu is being replaced (https://twitter.com/pauldfontaine/status/287205937935159298) in the final version of the game anyway.
The Faith Chart has nothing to do with the character's faction. You can change it by giving different skills and items.
And I think that it would be very stupid to give an advantage based on stage although Cirno had an advantage in her own stage.
Kasen also would be a Taoist, because she's a hermit.
Marisa's portrait should be changed to a less unhappy-looking one.
Filling out the Popularity Gauge effectively doubles change in popularity. Little tidbit that might be useful to know.
Does anyone know what the smallest unit in the popularity gauge is? Must be smaller than 1%.
I would also love to see what shows Reimu is aligned with Taoism. Especially considering she's a Shinto shrine maiden and all.
Post by: Tsalop on January 04, 2013, 05:02:21 pm
"There is no way my cute Reimu can't be this taoist ~ ze☆"
Post by: PJ on January 04, 2013, 05:22:40 pm
... are you thinking of Tojiko? Because Tokiko is a nameless, unimportant youkai whose only appearance is in CoLA.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on January 04, 2013, 05:45:52 pm
Quote from: Anthropophobia on January 04, 2013, 05:22:40 pm
Nice to see someone has common sense.
And yeah, nor Tokiko nor Tojiko will make it to the game, I just won't say that I'm 100% sure of it because we can't guarantee anything. But she has higher chances of appearing in the Audience, on some stage related to Futo/Miko.
Quote from: Tsalop on January 04, 2013, 05:02:21 pm
Shinto doesn't use yin-yang orbs, which should be enough warning that something heterodox is happening on the Hakurei Shrine.
While the actual reason for that is probably that ZUN thought that was cool way back in HRtP, it's interesting to elaborate on in-universe reasons. Case in point, Yukari's magic, with its heavy use of shikigamis, it's clearly onmyoudou, which is heavily taoistic.
Post by: Hanzo K. on January 04, 2013, 06:11:49 pm
The funny thing there being that Shinto absorbed those aspects of Taoism a fair bit if I'm not mistaken. So one could say that Taoism is the forerunner to Shintoism.
I think by "elaborate" you mean "speculate". The Yin and Yang used by Reimu, if it alluded to any kind of Taoism happening at Hakurei Shrine, probably would have been revealed by now. I think it's also worth pointing out that Onmyodo is as Shinto as it is "Taoist".
But really, the main reason for believing Reimu is decidedly Shinto is the fact that she is a Shinto shrine maiden. Any talk about "hints" of Taoist influence sound a lot like 9/11 conspiracy theorists who can microscope onto small details (e.g. the temperature of burning jet fuel and the melting point of steel) while ignoring larger, more important details (e.g. the mind-boggling amount of coordination it would take to make it a totally secret operation).
Funny, I thought there were a lack of Buddhist and especially Shinto characters, not a lack of Daoist ones at all
Miko, Futo, Seiga, Kasen
Byakuren, Shou, Ichirin
Reimu, Sanae, ... Aya?
Quote from: Belldandy Q. Pigrectum on January 04, 2013, 06:22:11 pm
Of course it's speculation. It's not baseless speculation, however, because what got me thinking on this angle was this quote (emphasis mine):
[ZUN] also mentions that Futo's abilities are, while coming from the perspective of Taoism, actually Shinto in nature - the opposite of Reimu.
Source here. (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Ten_Desires_special_and_two-part_interview_with_ZUN)
Parsing that comment you get that Reimu's abilities, while coming from the perspective of Shinto, are actually Taoist in nature.
And regarding Shinto in Onmyoudo, shinto and buddhism gave the onmyouji a bunch of deities/spirits/kami to work with. The actual praxis is daoist/taoist in nature. That was pretty much like when the western occult tradition appropriated jewish/christian angels and demons to their works. In the heart of onmyoudo is trigram/hexagram manipulation, the five elements, 12 celestial stems stuff that hail mostly from taoism. On that ZUN's short story with Yukari reminiscing about the flower incident, Yukari's thinking is clearly along these lines.
Now, of course Reimu is a shinto shrine maiden. The point is not that she's a secret hermit in training for all those years. But the Hakurei orbs, and a bunch of Reimu's particular powers (barrier manipulation, fantasy heaven, etc) could hail from taoistic magic and not from invoking a particular kami. For me, this is what that ZUN's comment is about.
For me, this is what that ZUN's comment is about.
Or it could be an ambiguous translation? Just going by Occam's Razor here. That's a lot to stretch out of a single sentence.
The thing is, cherry-picked data points to support a pre-supposed hypothesis is not evidence. So yeah, it is actually baseless speculation. Fun! But baseless. There's nothing really substantial to suggest that Reimu is significantly Taoist, or holds Taoist principles that don't have overlap in Shinto or other faiths. She is, categorically and definitively, solidly Shinto.*
*(Solidly Shinto is also the name of my new collection of Barry White remixes.)
It appears that my post was completely ignored, so I went and got the Ten Desires ending where Reimu's powers being Taoist comes from.
Seiga: "Not to worry, this patches up real quick."
[Picture: "Here, have an angel's raiment! <3 It's a bit cheap, though..." "I'll pass!"]
Reimu: "The hole's gone... Wait, what? Was that a magic trick?"
Seiga: "Now then, I came in the hopes that I, Seiga Kaku,
could learn in the ways of the Tao from you!"
Reimu: "Uh?"
Seiga: "Your strength is magnificent, like I said.
I can't believe even Lady Toyosatomimi couldn't beat you."
Reimu: "I've never heard of Tao in my life."
Seiga: "What are you saying? The power you use is the picture of Taoism."
Reimu: "Oh?"
Seiga: "Aren't your Yin-Yang orbs, charms, spirit world trance,
and other such things based in Taoist power?"
Reimu: "Are they?"
Seiga: "They are. Perhaps in Japan it's instead known
as Onmyoudou, but..."
Disastrous! Seiga had chased Reimu down.
What exactly was this wicked hermit plotting?
Well, in truth, she was merely captivated by Reimu's power.
This wicked hermit had a habit of being drawn to powerful humans.
That's precisely why she joined Miko and told her of Taoism.
Ending No. 2: Yeah, uh, aren't Reimu's skills Shinto?
This is a Parallel Ending! Congratulations!
Well damn
Seiga confirmed for SoEW
Quote from: Tiamat on January 04, 2013, 09:10:09 pm
It appears that my post was completely ignored
Aw. Chin up, lil buddy, I was talking to you, too!
Edit: Interesting ending quote, insofar as it shows Reimu to be utterly oblivious to Taoism. And that Seiga is projecting (charms and spirit power are very much a part of Shinto - I think Seiga is just being a bit overly zealous here, which would be typical of a missionary). So all we really know from this ending quote is Seiga believes Reimu's powers are derived from Taoism, even though they're also Shinto, and Reimu has no idea what the Tao even is, which is actually pretty hilarious of ZUN.
Oh. Oops. I either missed that "I would also love to see what shows Reimu is aligned with Taoism. Especially considering she's a Shinto shrine maiden and all." post you made, or didn't realize it could be taken at face value.
.....well, I suppose my own post with the ending that talks about it is "better late than never". ^^;;; There you go, I guess.
The main question is if it's just "a funny observation" by ZUN or meant to be an actual plot point, though I figured from the interview that it was at least something he was considering exploring in the future.
The main question is if it's just "a funny observation" by ZUN or meant to be an actual plot point
I think you're right about it being a plot point; it just speaks more about Seiga than it does Reimu!
I think we can pretty much sum it up like so.
Seiga: "I like strong people."
<snip spoiler>
See, I didn't even know about this ending. It seems that my insistence on seeing only the endings I personally obtain is getting on my way.
But it supports nicely what I said. It's like if somebody mixed a healthy dose of Taoism into the Hakurei rites, and as I had wondered, Reimu doesn't even know about it very well. (She's shown time and time again to be uninterested on pretty much everything but incident solving).
Other people don't find that strange enough to comment on because Gensokyo is a mostly closed system. Kanako and Suwako probably wondered a bit about that, but since Shinto is pretty much syncretic, they probably figured that was just how the Hakurei shrine rolled.
But it supports nicely what I said.
The thing that's awesome (and imminently frustrating) about ZUN is that the ending also nicely supports the opposite conclusion. We know Seiga - the Taoist - sees Toaism in what Reimu does, even though Reimu has no idea what she's talking about. This isn't surprising behavior - when I've described Wiccan principles to my Japanese friends, they've remarked on how similar it is to Shinto! This is probably more likely to happen when you have a zealot like Seiga who's all pumped about spreading the Tao - everything appears to be "influenced" or "based on" this awesome faith you hold. And that makes for great ZUN-like comedy.
ZUN is great at making things as open-ended and vague as possible. I really don't think there's much to speculate on when it comes to Reimu's faith, but I do like that he enjoys tossing some choice interactions like the one between Seiga and Reimu into the mix. Certainly keeps people wondering, that's for sure.
For what it's worth, Sanae's parallel ending has this
Sanae thought the gathering of divine spirits (desires, really) was connected to faith.
That was the entirety of her reason for converting (to Taoism ~Tiamat) and training.
However, she came to notice she wasn't getting any faith herself.
Where had Sanae mistaken her way?
Actually, this wasn't a mistake at all.
Japanese Shinto has close ties to the continent's Buddhism and Taoism.
Sanae was enlightened to the fact that trying to gather faith
without realizing such was meaningless.
Ending No. 6: Of course, it seems she'll convert right back soon.
I see what you mean and it indeed makes sense, even if I don't think Seiga is actually a zealot (which implies piety, something Seiga lacks to an awesome degree). I guess we'll have to wait for the complete game to see where ZUN is going with this.
@ Tiamat: Are those the endings you get if you finish 10D with 3+ bombs in stock? This is bad, I'm still to 1cc it on normal with Reimu, and it's taking all my lives and bombs to reach Miko's laser spellcard. On a good run. Oh well, more training.
Yea, those are both from the "parallel" endings. Here's a link to the full transcriptions for those who don't mind spoilers, I guess
http://vgboy.dabomstew.com/other/TenDesires.txt
I love how speculation encourages the digging up of more canonical material. And then more games are announced, leading to further speculations, leading to further canon-referencing, which in turn increases everyone's knowledge base of Touhou. It's the cirrrrrcle of liiiiiiife.
Post by: Polaris on January 04, 2013, 10:50:34 pm
Re: the ZUN interview about Ten Desires that _cf linked:
Regarding Reimu's power coming from Taoism, ZUN says he doesn't know how to work that into the story at all yet. However, plans for next year are starting to progress, little by little.
It looks like ZUN himself recognizes that Reimu's power has some connection to Taoism, and he intends to explore that a bit further.
That webpage with those endings was actually posted in the Ten Desires thread within like, a week of the game going live. Though I'm probably one of the only people obsessive compulsive enough to hang onto these things, I suppose.
Side note/question:
The character art... is alphes still doing that for HM? It doesn't look like his style.
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on January 05, 2013, 06:07:32 am
Well, Alphes certainly did the portraits and all that, but the actual fighting sprites, I have to agree, don't look like his style. No idea who did them, though, suppose e'll find out in the full version... or wiki browsing maybe.
So I made another short combo video, I dunno if the end was the best or worst thing I ever did (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi_ZIlEZHaU)
Or you could think of it this way. Before you set skills to the character, there is a default setting. That would mostly indicate that the character in question is using that type of power. Reimu's bar is pretty far into the Tao section, compared to the other characters. This also isn't the first time that Reimu has been hinted at following Tao. While I wouldn't call her a taoist, but she does mostly follow Taoistic beliefs over Shinto beliefs, even if she is a Shinto shrine maiden.
Also, another thing to take is that there are no indications that she is representing the Shinto faction. Her winning stance show that she is decidedly neutral. That said, I am not arguing she is representing the Taoist faction. I am just arguing that her beliefs aligned with Tao, not that she represents them.
Quote from: Tiamat on January 05, 2013, 01:42:41 am
Or there are plenty of players that want to see them for themselves as a reward for putting up with Yoshika's bullcrap and Tojiko's lightning.
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on January 05, 2013, 01:21:06 pm
Am I the only one thinking that we'll probably get an Oriental Dark Flight remix as Marisa's theme (since we got Colorful Path for Reimu)?
Though, personally, I would love a Magus Night remix. :V
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on January 05, 2013, 04:26:37 pm
I'm going to point out two things for the "Reimu is Taoist!!!" discussion
1.) "Following Shinto beliefs" is kinda a silly thing to say given the nature of Shinto.
2.) If you wanna speculate like that take a look at the other two characters. They have the same large alignment to Tao in their standard decks, do you want to speculate Marisa and Ichirin are Taoist believers too? My guess is the alignment of a skill might simply have to do with whether it's melee or danmaku or something. Whichever it is, the standard values for all charas are neutral, the faith chart has literally no meaning at all in that regard. (Surprise, that was already pointed out a few times).
It's an arbitrary measurement. Stop looking too deep into it.
Post by: Prime32 on January 05, 2013, 06:21:15 pm
Quote from: Fujisakana Nageki on January 05, 2013, 04:26:37 pm
Casting magic spells is a Taoist thing, so using magic spells to impress people will make them like Taoism. Simple as that.
Post by: Serela on January 05, 2013, 06:38:15 pm
People are reading too far into it, especially in terms of the faith triangle in 13.5.
However, Reimu being unintentionally Taoist is still definitely a thing, since it's been blatantly stated both by ZUN (as seen in the latter interview quotes; the first one is a vague inference, the second is much more solid) and in a game ending. (Which makes it clear that it's not just some translation silliness)
While I wouldn't call her a taoist, but she does mostly follow Taoistic beliefs over Shinto beliefs, even if she is a Shinto shrine maiden.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/122m44w.jpg)
Too much oscillation there, but it's still clear enough for me nonetheless.
Quote from: Magic on January 05, 2013, 09:12:30 pm
I'm not sure that's the word you mean to use, but I think this nutty discussion is based on a misunderstanding; that there is absolutely no overlap of belief or practice between Taoism and Shinto, when in fact both Taoism and Buddhism have not only influenced Shinto, but all three share fundamental ideas and concepts. Therefore it's fairly easy to say "oh yeah, sure, she's a Shinto shrine maiden, BUT LOOK AT THIS TAOIST THING SHE DOES" when there are commonalities between the two.
In other words, yes, people are reading far too much into this.
Post by: Chuckolator on January 05, 2013, 11:35:12 pm
Actually, I'm neither. I just wanted to fit in. :(
Quote from: Seiga Kaku on January 05, 2013, 11:35:12 pm
Well this is the best laugh I've had in a week!
Post by: Starxsword on January 05, 2013, 11:53:28 pm
While I don't quite understand Shinto, I do know about Taoist and Buddhist beliefs. Tao ideas and Buddhist ideas are not the same. Reimu's way of life: going with the flow is a Tao concept. Buddhist concept does not have this as far as I could tell. I don't know if Shinto concepts have this.
My guess is that the alignment there is meant to be the alignment of the moves in question. So something is a "Shinto" move, or a "Buddhist" move, or a "Tao" move.
Considering that Marisa has her alignment split, it sounds like she is neutral. Or are you telling me that Marisa and Ichirin have max "Tao" on their default deck?
Yes, an arbitrary measurement, just like lots of other measurements, like movement speed, damage, bomb length, etc. in the other danmaku games. But I am not just talking about this single arbitrary measurement. I am talking about this arbitrary measurement plus everything else Zun has told us.
All indications say that Reimu follows Tao, if Reimu were aligned in this game, which I don't believe she is aligned.
What I am saying is Reimu does not represent the Shinto faction. That would be Sanae, Suwako and Kanako.
Reimu's title shows that she is Shinto.
The Faith Chart in the demo is just a prototype. There isn't any skill or item that changes the Shinto part.
Post by: Tengukami on January 06, 2013, 12:32:55 am
Quote from: Starxsword on January 05, 2013, 11:53:28 pm
What I'm saying is there's an overlap in beliefs. "Going with the flow", for example, is a concept that applies to many, many religions. So saying that because Belief A belongs to Faith 1, this character therefore follows Faith 1 is not necessarily correct. In Reimu's case:
Quote from: Sungho on January 06, 2013, 12:18:50 am
Post by: Aqua Soo on January 06, 2013, 02:58:53 am
Shinto, throughout Japanese history, has adapted a lot of Taoist and Buddhist concepts through China and Korea. Thus, you have to look at what Shinto does that the other two doesn't if you want to find out what is distinctively "Shinto." And the answer to that is right in the name: Shin=God. Shinto is all about worshipping various Japanese gods: famous mythological figures and countless animistic spirits/gods. Yorihime would be the best example of how someone with Shinto powers will fight IMO.
Outside Silent Sinner in Blue, however, most of Reimu's powers doesn't seem to rely on gods. Look at Reimu's spellcards. There are a few that mention "divine" and "god," but she doesn't call upon powers of any specific Shinto gods. In fact, a big part of Reimu - the Yin Yang orbs - is decidedly Taoistic. The concept of yin-yang balance is a HUGE part of Taoism (concept originated from Tao Te Ching, the closest thing Taoism got to a "bible"). What ZUN is implying in that interview is very literal, no need to read deep into it: Reimu is a Shinto miko, but one that unknowingly (which is funny because "unknowingly knowing" is also somewhat Taoist) leans heavily toward Tao.
That ZUN's comment might become clearer if you look at Futo's spellcards as well. Futo obviously sides with the Taoists. However, look at her spellcards. Almost all of those names mentioned are Shinto figures. Sake is also important to Shinto rituals. And of course, the infamous BOAT. ZUN definitely got that from Iwafune Shrine (Shinto) in Osaka where there is a rock "boat." Futo derives much of her spells/power from Shinto concepts, even though she's with Taoists...
I hope this clears up for everyone the religion shenanigan going on in Touhou.
====Sorry for wall of text lol=====
Something interesting is the classification of Reimu's Fantasy Seal. I believe it's the only "Shinto" card in TH135 demo. I don't really remember how we know this, but we've also known for a while that fantasy orb/seal is a Hakurei shrine signature spell. Maybe this is related to Hakurei shrine's god???
By the way, the deck argument is very weak. All characters have 4 "default" decks in the demo, each having its own faith chart...
Post by: cuc on January 06, 2013, 03:27:09 am
The post above is mostly correct (one nitpick: Tao Te Ching actually only mentioned Yin and Yang explicitly once; Yin/Yang figures more prominently in I-Ching; the concept of Yin/Yang balance is far older than Tao Te Ching).
Futo's spell cards all come from her upbringing as a Shinto priestess of the Mononobe clan. And for another example of Reimu's non-Shinto techniques, one of her signature weapons is Persuasion Needle / Demon-Sealing Needle, which originated not from Japanese culture, but from wuxia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuxia) (martial arts literature), in which acupuncture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acupuncture) needles become a type of projectile weapon.
The current faith charts, and the faith ratio of each characters' skills in the demo indeed don't mean very much. For all we know, in the full game each character may all have an equal amount of Taoist, Shintoist and Buddhist cards.
I'm not sure that's the word you mean to use, but I think this nutty discussion is based on a misunderstanding; that there is absolutely no overlap of belief or practice between Taoism and Shinto, when in fact both Taoism and Buddhism have not only influenced Shinto, but all three share fundamental ideas and concepts.
While some of the posts here might go a little overboard, this is not quite right, either. There's significant syncreticism and mutual influence going on throughout history, but their fundamental concepts are very different.
On the demo faith chart, each faith lights up when its value is 3 or above. And while you can stack 8 cards of the same faith, the maximum value visible on the chart is only 4.
It's reasonable to think each character would have 3-4 cards for each faith, and 3-4 neutral cards, making it a total of 12-16 cards. This observation is unrelated to the one above.
Quote from: cuc on January 06, 2013, 03:27:09 am
Oh, I didn't say they were the same. I said there was a lot of influence and overlap between them; some indications/concepts from one are shared by both, or more.
They really aren't too mutually exclusive from each other. Buddhism/Shinto for example are mixed and matched a lot because they don't contradict.
They will release some patch for low resolution? Because I cant really play the game on my Netbook.
Quote from: RemiShama on January 06, 2013, 12:01:41 pm
Try this. (http://www.brianapps.net/sizer/)
There's also this one (http://grismar.net/shiftwindow/) that has more options, but it's more complicated to use.
Post by: Formless God on January 06, 2013, 02:55:15 pm
That's because I did it
Really, though, they probably got another dood to work on this. Reimu's face looks out of whack, colored eyelashes aren't his stuff, and the eyelash in Reimu's lmao3/4bar Last Word isn't alphes's kind of eyelash :V And then there's the sudden revert to the IaMP proportions while A) the one used in 10.5/12.3 looked better B) they don't actually clash with the sprites' size in this game.
Ok I will try it the first software and I will let you know if I have other problems. Thanks!
I know this is just to make things fair from a gameplay perspective, but I have to ask.
I just managed to use Sun Grazer for the first time in a legitimate match. Now, whether or not a Last Word hits, it always resets the user's popularity to +50 -50. How is this supposed to make sense from the view of the characters themselves? :V
"Man that was awesome!...sorta excessive..."
Quote from: Amra on January 06, 2013, 10:15:38 pm
Yeah, Marisa swinging her broom (with a yellow glow) and not hitting anything is really, really excessive. Now, granted, if it hit, what you posted would make some sense. It makes no sense when a last word fails to activate, though.
"Oh sweet, she's going to do something...!...hmm. Maybe that was on purpose."
Oh hell, she goofed her ultimate attack, what a let down.
Post by: Polaris on January 07, 2013, 02:11:49 am
When you get to 100% popularity, you're expected to pull out your Last Word and/or win the match. If it gets to a point where your popularity does drop back to +50% -50%, then that means you didn't win when you should have so everyone is disappointed.
Quote from: Suika Ibuki on January 07, 2013, 02:18:52 am
I want the full game to be released...
I think everyone here wants that.
I'm waiting warmly while the girls get ready.
Meh. I dont see the animation of skills. .-. Thanks anyways for the program.
Does anyone have any comprehensive information regarding each of the different directional variances of each skill? Some seem really similar, like Reimu's B- and F- Skill2, or Ichirin's U- and D- Skill1.
For the sake of consistency I'll be using numeric notation. Just look at your numpad to see which direction it is. 2 is down, 4 is back, 6 is forward, 8 is up.
Marisa has no variations in direction except for her potion special. 2pot puts it below her at a medium distance. 4pot puts it fairly close in front of her, same elevation. 6pot puts it way in front of her, same elevation. 8pot puts it above her and medium distance away.
Reimu's variations lie in yinyang orb, somersault, teleport setup, and youkai buster.
2buster shoots it at around a 30 degree angle downwards. 4buster shoots it around 60 degrees downwards. 6buster shoots it straight forward, 8buster shoots it about 30 degrees upwards.
2yinyang shoots it at 60 degrees down. 4yinyang shoots it 30 degrees down. 6yinyang shoots it 30 degrees up, and 8yinyang shoots it 60 degrees up.
2somersault is very short and has less hitstun. 6 and 4somersault are identical, but 6somersault shoots you further forward; both have more hitstun but more recovery. 8somersault has an automatic followup. As far as I can tell :none: have invinc frames.
4 and 6teleport are the same and put the waypoint about 3 character lengths in front of Reimu. 2teleport puts the waypoint almost vertically below Reimu, and 8teleport puts it almost vertically above her. Using it again will do the teleport kick, regardless of direction inputted.
Ichirin has variations for godhand/vertical fist and ORAORA.
2 and 8 godhand are identical and fire the fist about midscreen. 6godhand shoots it pretty far forward, and 4godhand is almost point blank.
4 and 8ora are identical. 2ora can be held down to go slightly downwards while doing it, but this is pretty useless. 6ora sends Unzan forward while performing and has more hits.
So for Marisa the main reason to vary direction input is to just simplify combos. Reimu has some variation, but it's mostly down to personal choice as combos tend to work with any version of buster or somersault. Ichirin needs some versions of godhand to optimal combos, and 6godhand is pretty useless, but otherwise not much difference.
Post by: Kosachi on January 09, 2013, 04:46:23 pm
As from what I can see:
Reimu:
Back flip:
8D/C :Does a kick upwards then follows with another downwards for two hits.
6D/C & 4D/C: Does a single kick upwards.
2D/C: Does a very low back flip with Reimu barely going upwards into the air.
Youkai Buster:
8D/C: Shoots her talismans diagonally upwards.
4D/C: Shoots her talismans downwards with a very steep angle; almost going straight down.
6D/C: Shoots straight ahead
2D/C: Shoots diagonally downwards
Ying-Yang Orb:
8D/C: Shoots upwards at a rather steep angle, bounces twice if you have enough distance.
4D/C: Shoots downwards so that bounces once.
6D/C: Shoots upwards so that bounces only once.
2D/C: Shoots downwards at a pretty steep angle, bouncing twice of the ceiling and floor if you have enough distance.
Gap Kick Move:
8D/C: Shoots the gap upwards, then kicks downwards when coming out of it.
4D/C & 6D/C: Shoots the gap forwards, kicks downwards when coming out of it.
2D/C: Shoots gap downwards, kicks downwards when coming out of it. If your kick hits the floor, you continue as you go from the bottom of the screen to the top.
Marisa:
Broom Upercut:
I saw no real difference in the move, regardless of the direction you pushed, unless i'm wrong.
Dash Forward:
8D/C & 2D/C: A simple dash forward with some very good distance.
4D/C: A shorter dash which goes quite a bit slower.
6D/C: A longer version which goes a lot faster.
Falling Stars:
I once again saw no difference in the move, regardless of which direction you press.
Magic Bottle:
8D/C: Throws the bottle upwards with a pretty steep arch, exploding well above Marisa's head.
4D/C: A short throw forwards.
6D/C: A pretty long throw forwards.
2D/C: A small arch upwards, before falling and detonating below Marisa.
Ichirin:
Bullet Punch:
6D/C: Unzan moves forward while he punches.
All three other directions: Unzan just punches while staying still.
Electric Fists:
6D/C: Unzan electrically charges his fists but does not smash them together.
All three other directions: Unzan electrically charges his fists and smashes them together right in front of him.
Downwards Sky Punch:
4D/C: Close range, downwards punch that falls right in front of Ichirin.
8D/C & 2D/C: Medium range, downwards punch, about halfway down the screen.
6D/C: Long range punch, near the back of the screen.
Grab:
I saw no difference regarding the direction pressed; the grab is always the same.
Thats all I was able to do from playing around with the abilities, I don't quite know the official names for the specials, so I described them :derp: Hope this helps :D If I made any mistakes, I apologize in advance :P
Ha, simultaneous post. Yeah, forgot about zaphand and broomride.
Post by: Lawence Codye on January 10, 2013, 05:27:31 am
I like the game but am having some issues with it, first is the display during character selection is slanted upward & during the fight some of the graphics for attacks are basically not there & I have no idea why this would be...
Quote from: Lawence Codye on January 10, 2013, 05:27:31 am
Same my problem.
I have the same problem, and I'm assuming it's just a graphics card problem. I only have 128MB video memory and the recommended is 512MB. Since I meet all the other requirements, this is probably what's wrong :x
Post by: Shizzo on January 11, 2013, 02:32:33 am
I got a bug the other day where Reimubot got 100% popularity by the time she used her ability to swap sides of the screen.
She then got invisible and suddenly I was fighting a yellow glow.
Post by: Kosachi on January 11, 2013, 03:05:40 am
Quote from: Linnah on January 11, 2013, 02:32:33 am
Did you maybe accidentally press F2? Because that gives player 2 100% popularity. As for why she disappeared, I have no idea.
Good point, I can't remember if I did it accidentaly or she was beating me. By the way, is it just me or she's the only hard bot in the game? For me, it's almost like Ichirin and Marisa got the good ol SWR-esque AI.
Post by: Hideki on January 11, 2013, 08:54:49 am
So how is Reimu's Last Word supposed to work? I've tried a lot of things, to try to trigger the counter, but all she seems to do is pose, even as she's being hit.
Pose, then get hit by a melee while still posing.
Post by: Mr. Sacchi on January 11, 2013, 07:42:11 pm
Anybody knows a good followup for Reimu's 8 Ascension Kick Followup? Been using it for a while and wanted to try and get a followup for it.
Also, here's a quick corner combo for people using Reimu: 2B 2Youkai Buster 2 8B 8Ascension Kick
Deals about 2600~2700 damage depending on how many amulets hit on youkai buster and stuns. Corner-only, but it's actually pretty fun to use :3
Ascension Kick is her flash kick attack right? the 8 version being the one that follows with a down kick?
If so, then from what I found you can combo with it in the corner only, I've yet to extensively practice with it midscreen, but this video will show you how to follow it up (see second Reimu combo)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi_ZIlEZHaU
Quote from: Gpop on January 11, 2013, 09:40:14 pm
Yup and yup.
Thanks for the tip btw, still trying to get the hang of it, but it's been useful for when I land a random 8B midscreen, I've been more successful doing this midscreen than in the corner, but I do have an itchy "down" finger :V
Quote from: Motomiya Sacchi on January 11, 2013, 10:16:21 pm
I recommend using 8 D to follow up from 8B and go on with the first combo of the video if it's mid screen, mind you, it takes up A LOT of magic so if you run out just end it with a 6B instead of Youkai buster as shown in the video
8D? I don't think I understand the notation here at all. What is D?
woops I meant 8Y, i kept referring x and y as c and d respectively. Sorry x.x
Oh, yeah cause I was seeing it as "maybe C is what was meant? So the specials? "
confusionmaiden
Regarding Reimu's Taoism:
Sure, it's true that Reimu uses Yin-Yang orbs. But that's hardly unique to her. Marisa's 8 Trigram reactor? Taoist. Sanae's Pentagrams? Taoist. Kanako and Suwako's "kun" and "qian"? Taoist. Patchouli elemental magic? Taoist. Yukari's onmyoudo? Taoist. It's all Taoist. But I don't really think it means that much. It just happens to be the case that Taoist concepts are so deeply ingrained in East Asian culture that it's difficult to talk about magic of any kind without invoking Taoism. It doesn't mean they subscribe to the belief systems of Taoism, just that Taoist magic is the pop-cultural image that ZUN and his audience would naturally come up with, especially when he's intentionally avoiding Western magic.
Everyone in Gensokyo is secretly a Sufi Muslim.
All the signs are there, people, they hardly need pointing out.
Sure, it's true that Reimu uses Yin-Yang orbs. But that's hardly unique to her. Marisa's 8 Trigram reactor? Taoist. Sanae's Pentagrams? Taoist. Kanako and Suwako's "kun" and "qian"? Taoist. Patchouli elemental magic? Taoist. Yukari's onmyoudo? Taoist. It's all Taoist.
The Yin-Yang orbs may be only Taoist in nature, even that I am unsure. But the 8 trigram reactor could be both Taoist and Buddhist in nature. The Hakkero which I believe exists in the story of Journey to the West is a Buddhist story after all.
On the subject of religion, I believe Reimu would have lots of Tao skills and some skills from the other religions. If Youmu is in, she would likely have mostly Buddhist skills and maybe a bit of the other skills. If Sanae is in, she may have mostly Shinto skills and some skills from the other religions. At least, this is my assumption. We'll see once the game comes out.
I'm not sure "only Taoist" is a meaningful distinction to make in the first place. The whole point is that all these symbols and beliefs have been influencing each other for centuries or more.
If the demo's any indication, the character's affiliation has roughly nothing to do with the religion tagged to their skills. That could change I guess, but as long as it's a game mechanic and not a plot point I don't expect it to.
Aaaaand another quick Reimu combo that stuns and gives me 3k+ damage with no spellcards attached :V
(Need to be real close to the corner though)
DashB 6YoukaiBuster 8FlashKick 5AAA 6B
So far, I've had my share of troubles hitting an enemy after a 8FlashKick but I've never missed it in this particular combo, maybe its easier if the opponent is already stunned? :wat:
Quote from: Clarste on January 12, 2013, 07:58:43 pm
It's like a Wiccan using crosses and holy water to repel a vampire. Not because it's Christian stuff, just because that's how you fight vampires.
>Sanae's pentagram
>Hakkero, the Furnace of Eight Trigrams, and The Journey to the West
All fine examples about how the further down history, the more things are mixed and indiscernible.
The onmyōdō pentagram is invented by Abe no Seimei, and represents the Five Elements, but at that point in history it was quite impossible to say whether onmyōdō (the Way of Yin-Yang) is Taoist or Shinto.
Similarly, in SoPM, Kanako brought up shugendō (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shugend%C5%8D) - a Japanese mountain ascetic practice or sect that's closely associated with the myths of tengu and ninja. It's Buddhism, Shintoism and Taoism at the same time.
The classical Chinese novel "The Journey to the West" is unique among its contemporaries in certain ways. Part of the author's agenda seems to be that Buddhism is superior to Taoism, yet the author must be an expert in Taoist alchemy, because the novel's chapter titles are laden with jargons that would fly over the head of everyone who's not an alchemist.
The pentagram itself being a great example of a symbol that overlaps many very different religions, "created" apart from each other and at different times. The collective unconscious is an amazing thing.
Quote from: Tengukami on January 14, 2013, 03:00:43 am
I think we can safely pin that one on geometry.
Uh, sorta meant the use of a pentagram as a religious symbol. Pedantically speaking, yes, geometry was used to create the pentagram. But why stop there? Might as well go all the way back to fundamental mathematics, the evolution of the forebrain, and the creation of the primate species.
Post by: honkytonks on January 14, 2013, 09:09:13 pm
Just sharing these combo vids :)
Combo Exhibition Vol. 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjR7vLXOR1k)
Combo Exhibition Vol. 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoBKXcVo0vI)
Post by: Yuuka on January 15, 2013, 03:33:25 am
Played the demo, Ichirin so fun p_p.
Game needs less demo needs more Finished >:I
Weather in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody was also a game mechanic.
And weather was related to the plot but as a gameplay mechanic had nothing to do with the characters. I think that's a perfectly good example of the separation I'm talking about.
It had some shallow relations to the characters but otherwise served as little more than a shake of the box to make the game more 'interesting'.
The point is that it has a relation to the characters. The little bit you get from it is what their personalities are like, because of what weather they have. How is this different from what side they are?
This is different from what faction they would be in. This is just what they believe. Kind of like Futo being in the Taoist faction, but I would guess she is more likely Shinto.
But it isn't like, for example, using Iku makes Typhoon occur 25% of the time.
The characters do have a connection to a certain weather, but from a gameplay viewpoint, it doesn't matter what your character's weather is.
It is my personal opinion that everyone should get a equal amount of cards for the 3 factions, regardless of the origin of the skills or the actual faction of the characters.
as if dealing with Iku wasn't obnoxious enough...
Difference is that weather only affected them in story, but that's it. In actual multiplayer weather is always random and never gives one character a higher probability of one certain weather than another. And I feel the religion meter thing is the same, it doesn't affect anything other than a fun fact based on the attacks you have mapped.
Only time the religions may matter is in story, but the meter shown when building your decks won't affect the story at all.
though I THINK there is a weather card you can use in your decks in Soku/SWR, but no one ever uses them though lol
some girls had bad enough melee that they had to run weather cards just to get rid of Typhoon. just in case.
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on January 17, 2013, 01:08:18 am
Marisa's idle pose is the best thing.
Reimu and Ichirin are all in perpetual ready mode with both dukes up.
Marisa? Marisa just rocks back and forth.
On her broom.
All match.
Giving. Zero. Fucks.
Quote from: Purple-haired Pacifistic Pasuhead on January 17, 2013, 01:08:18 am
Why should Marisa worry? She only has a huge ass laser in her pocket that vaporizes anything it points at! I wouldn't give a fuck and a half either :P
Post by: Star King on January 17, 2013, 03:08:06 am
So are we ever gonna gain information on the game between now and the release, or is it just demo -> game?
laser is not hard. not as hard as positioning yourself to punch someone, anyways. too bad broomslash is a pretty bad ender, or else we could get declare+spell.
Quote from: Star King on January 17, 2013, 03:08:06 am
Given Tasofro's precedence, there may be a downloadable demo a few months before release (they have acknowledged people's request for web demo on their blog), and more non-boss characters would be revealed during that period.
In either case, I need to rephrase what I meant to say. I didn't mean what they believe in, but what their skill relates to, which partially pertains to what they believe in.
I think we are talking about different things. Their techniques, you can map them however you want, so even if they only have 1 or 2 skills in Buddhism, you can max out the Buddhism bar. But that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about how the techniques themselves and how the characters start with a specific pattern. Those, I do not think is coincidental on where they are placed in the religion skill tree.
So, back to weather. In actual game play, weather is random, but what we got from weather is from their dialogue, which mentions what personalities each character has, because of their temperament. This is not to say that Marisa would likely have "drizzle" weather, but to say that, because her weather is "drizzle", her personality is so and so.
Since I cannot read kanji, can someone please tell me how to enable gamepad use?
plug it in. :P
If you're using a XBOX360 controller, up on the D-pad is to accept, and down on the D-pad is to decline. You should still set your own controls, though.
Though it seems to be buggy with PS3 and DS3 tools. Everytime I try to use my PS3 pad the profile menu always locks up when I try to keymap
You could always try using a MadCatz FightPad too; the 6 face button layout seems like it would lend itself nicely to setting up C and Z macros.
Post by: Ikari on January 17, 2013, 04:01:40 pm
Woah, just browsed through the whole thread. Did we really have a debate on Reimu being a taoist? I've officially seen it all.
But Reimu totally beats everyone else with her winning poses.
What do you mean I had a full battle with Ichirin, which ended up with her EXPLODING as I defeated her? Fuck you, that's what. *Throws flyer on screen*
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on January 17, 2013, 10:14:35 pm
Oooh, okay. Thought it was the color buttons to select anything. :V
Quote from: Ikari on January 17, 2013, 04:01:40 pm
Pretty sure nobody was arguing that she was Taoist, just that it's very clear that her abilities have some connection to Taoism. :derp:
Summary of Unabara's recent tweets:
1. (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/293020478363279361) The first demo was more experimental, aimed at pushing the limits of game design. There's a lot of tweaking to do.
2. (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/293281729328852992) The rule of "using spell card to keep combo after stun" will be changed.
Sounds like there's a long way off, and there'll be another demo in the future.
Meanwhile, someone (I honestly don't know whom) has made a partial dump consisting of what seems to be all graphics except for the main character sprites, and all music files. I'm temporarily hosting it on my SkyDrive now, and will be grateful if someone can upload it to Mediafire (which I have difficulty accessing) and share the file using Mediafire instead.
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=E04D86FB0C8F489C!143&authkey=!ANJc4re1SBtPW0M
Info gleaned from the dump:
many assets are haphazardly named, and should be temporary; each characters' cards are numbered from 0 to 20.
Thank you... it was not a good idea.
Post by: teefa85 on January 22, 2013, 03:21:11 am
The popularity system was what most people were complaining about (actually it felt like it was ALL they were complaining about) from the fighting game community, since they say it encourages "get popularity, run away for victory" tactic, which I can SOMEWHAT agree to but we'll see what they do with it in the next demo
Post by: Shizzo on January 22, 2013, 08:38:04 pm
I dunno how to feel regarding the spellcard-following-stun change. As much as I feel it adds great flavor to the game (among with making combos end in a much beautiful way) it sure makes small, dumb mistakes like not blocking, or being counterattacked have huge consequences. I guess it goes without saying by now that if you hit a combo with a stun there's a pretty high chance of you ending up taking more than half of the opponent's life.
Wish we had actual player x player videos so we could see how the current system would fare in real games though.
The whole popularity issue isn't that bad for me, if anything I wish it was more rewarding for comboing instead of countering.
I would say to balance it out, punish those even more if they JUST try to run away and don't try to actually rush down the player (aka run-away tactics). Only problem with this though is that it HEAVILY unfavours the zoners, so we have to find that happy balance :<
Also, for spellcards hitting stunned opponents, I say for balance make the spell cards also scale, though not as hard (maybe just as hard as UMvC3 scales their hypers).
I'd say give the zoners movement followups to their specials that don't penalize.
Character idea:
Choujuu Gigaku; 2 characters, 1 health bar (ala MB's Kohaku & Hisui)
They don't care about the religion-related carp goin on, they're just here to rock out!
Post by: Flan27 on January 24, 2013, 03:45:51 pm
Zun has played around with multiple characters as a single boss since Touhou 4 in the main series. It would be great to see it in a fighting game! (Not that it's likely...)
Well, I'm just hoping Kyouko gets a role more than just a spectator.
Post by: Quwanti on January 24, 2013, 07:18:57 pm
Great! Was looking for that for a long time.
It appears that the background characters might be full resolution eventually. At least there is one of Patchouli.
Does anyone know the average time it takes to fully create/program a HI-RES fighting game character?
Post by: Stuffman on January 26, 2013, 04:47:47 pm
Depends on quality.
It takes six total manhours to make one Skullgirls frame, apparently.
Quote from: Stuffman on January 26, 2013, 04:47:47 pm
But Skullgirls' sprites are quite detailed, aren't them? Even for a HI-RES game.
I'm talking about sprites on the same quality level of Guilty Gear X, or Arcana Heart 1.
So like, half as many hours. Maybe.
SkullGirls uses vector graphics with complex shading algorithms and depth of colour effects. Making a given frame for, say, BlazBlue would still take a while, but significantly less so than for SkullGirls. AquaPazza or Arcana Heart level of detail even less so. I'd grant frames anywhere between 20 and 60 minutes to make, depending on what part of an animation it is for. If it's a frame not far different from the previous one, it would not take very long to make, since a large part of the sprite would not take much redrawing.
Post by: Sparen on January 27, 2013, 04:02:39 pm
...My unarchiver.app states that EVERYTHING inside the .pakx.7z is corrupted...
Post by: cuc on January 29, 2013, 01:22:07 pm
Quote from: Sparen on January 27, 2013, 04:02:39 pm
Um, try using another decompressor, and redownloading the file? Sorry, I know nothing about Unarchiver.app.
RandomTalkingBush, an admin of Spriter's Resource, has already ripped Reimu's sprite sheet. Does anyone know how to contact him? I mean, his Steam account is very easy to find, but it's always nicer to have someone inbetween...
http://www.spriters-resource.com/pc_computer/T.html
EDIT: RandomTalkingBush said he don't know much about decrypting.
Post by: tourist on February 08, 2013, 03:35:24 am
LOL fix this pls
Post by: Phlegeth on February 09, 2013, 01:55:34 am
Quote from: tourist on February 08, 2013, 03:35:24 am
Well, that is what her ability is suppose to do.
Post by: Polaris on February 09, 2013, 02:53:45 am
Well the only reason Reimu's popularity goes up when she does that is that she keeps "attacking", so if Ichirin just kept attacking at the same rate then her popularity would have gone up similarly. So that "strategy" won't always work :derp:
Post by: Suikama on February 09, 2013, 04:14:52 am
fantasy heaven's new look
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on February 09, 2013, 04:53:14 am
Mikos are trolling constantly and are cheating
Please wait warmly until it is ready
Post by: game2011 on February 12, 2013, 01:06:42 pm
Hope the news of ZUN coming to America didn't make people forget about this game's existence...
Post by: Hinacle on February 12, 2013, 02:57:34 pm
Well, this (http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/cbbs06/cf.cgi) recently popped up on Tasofro's page. It looks like a help forum for 13.5.
Title: Re: Touhou 13.5 –|·½Ðľ_Â¥ Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
Post by: cuc on February 13, 2013, 04:53:11 am
It's a tech support forum. Has been there not long after the demo release.
Post by: Keegster2 on March 01, 2013, 05:59:30 pm
So, do you have to get a disk to play the demo?
Post by: game2011 on March 02, 2013, 04:34:01 am
You can download online, too.
Post by: Keegster2 on March 02, 2013, 05:23:27 am
Good, also, can you play it even if your computers local language is set to a non-Japanese language?
I don't think computers are region-locked, though I do remember having a movie-based interactive game that cannot be installed because my computer's main language is Thai...
Anyway, it can.
If possible, can you give me the link to the demo?
Post by: game2011 on March 02, 2013, 05:07:03 pm
I'm sure it's illegal to ask for it here, because it's actually a form of piracy. Those games are not intended to be downloaded online, only bought from Comikets.
Great, guess my status quo of never owning or downloading Japanese games will still stand.
Post by: Tengukami on March 02, 2013, 08:33:40 pm
Quote from: game2011 on March 02, 2013, 05:07:03 pm
I'm sure it's illegal to ask for it here, because it's actually a form of piracy. Those games were not intended to be downloaded online, only bought from Comiket.
Demos are OK. But just Googling "Hopeless Masquerade demo" will return plenty of download links, really.
Post by: Kanade on March 09, 2013, 12:40:58 am
So, is there any confirmed official release date?
August 12, 2013.
Post by: cuc on March 09, 2013, 12:54:21 pm
Oh no, that's all my fault.
We don't have an official release date for HM yet. August 12 is the apparent Touhou 14 release date.
...That means HM will likely be released between Reitaisai 10 (May 26) and Comiket 84 (August 12).It'd be bad if the shooting game came out first again.
Post by: Yonowaaru on March 09, 2013, 01:44:54 pm
Wait, Touhou 14? Has there even been any announcement about that at all?
Please read my status update thread in TARC. :-)
In short, ZUN just said his new game will have a demo on Reitaisai 10, full release on Comiket 84. The proper announcement will be made later.
Post by: Yoshika Miyako on March 15, 2013, 08:00:26 am
Who is this person on the right ? Is she the new character of touhou 13.5 ?
http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/harakili/imgs/5/e/5e94bfa9.jpg
Post by: cuc on March 15, 2013, 08:23:13 am
She's a fanmade character. Drawing those imaginary characters is a popular fan activity during the development of new Touhou games.
Post by: Amraphenson on March 15, 2013, 08:35:19 am
let's not post silly photoshops and edits in the actual thread thanks.
Post by: Firestorm29 on March 15, 2013, 11:15:43 pm
Ya know, I'd love to see a game that featured nothing but these made-up fanbase characters. Could be interesting.
Post by: Formless God on March 15, 2013, 11:24:35 pm
Could be a clusterfuck
Title: TH13.5: Touhou Shinkirou ~ Hopeless Masquerade announced for Reitaisai 10
Post by: cuc on April 23, 2013, 12:56:55 pm
Does this need a separate thread?
<Tengukami> Hey, for future reference:
News about Touhou should go to Front Page Headlines. TARC is the fandom board. I remember moving another news thread of yours from TARC to FPH, so I just thought I'd leave this note. Thanks!
Touhou Shinkirou ~ Hopeless Masquerade will be released on Reitaisai 10 (May 26).
Aside from the announcement, Twilight Frontier has also updated the recommended system specs on their site. The only changes are:
CPU has been changed from "Intel Core2Duo 2.6GHz and above, or equivalent" to "Intel Core i7 or equivalent".
The hard drive space requirement has been changed to "200MB or above free disk space (trial version); 1GB or above free disk space".
All the previous Touhou fighting games have been larger than 1GB after installation. It appears this time the game will take up much less disk space.
We should also be able to expect the non-boss characters being revealed one by one before Reitaisai.
Title: Re: TH13.5: Touhou Shinkirou ~ Hopeless Masquerade announced for Reitaisai 10
Post by: The Hating Hater on April 23, 2013, 01:03:33 pm
Shouldn't this be in front page?
The i7 CPU is ridiculous. Judging from the demo, there's no reason the actual game shouldn't be playable with much less.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 23, 2013, 03:53:53 pm
WOAH! A i7 CPU!?
This is my machine's info:
http://speccy.piriform.com/results/Z4agopEJkcAsyTlVmHmkhOo
As it can be seen, my rig has a i5 CPU, and with it I can run the game flawlessly (at least the demos that were relleased so far). No graphical bugs/glitches and no lag neither. Even while I'm using fraps to record it at the same time, there's still no lag whatsoever.
Tasofro seems to be exaggerating too much. Unless if the full version will demand an even more powerful machine.
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on April 23, 2013, 04:16:52 pm
So, release date.
I wasn't expecting it to be that soon, but I'm not complaining. :V
Quote from: Magic Magica ~★ on April 23, 2013, 03:53:53 pm
Seems exaggerated to me as well. Then again, I do have a i7 CPU, so I can't really say much.
Post by: Vyrien on April 23, 2013, 04:18:51 pm
i7 CPU and above whut.
The next intel CPU hasn't even been released yet :v
i7 CPU? How did I missed that. What is in the full game?
Quote from: Vyrien on April 23, 2013, 04:18:51 pm
Maybe there's secretly an unofficial i9 one in japan :V
It needs i7 or higher because ZUN is the final boss. That's not easy to handle, you know. :P
Post by: Imosa on April 23, 2013, 06:31:32 pm
I think we should look back at the idea that judging is done by ZUN himself. What if, instead of having ZUN judge every match, they simulate ZUN to judge the matches.
Post by: Gpop on April 23, 2013, 06:58:27 pm
Damn, on the last day of Anime North, so it's gonna be hard to talk about this game, but I would love to try to play it by then
Still, this is awesome. I kinda expected the game to be released by then after they released the official web demo for it.
Post by: cuc on April 24, 2013, 01:09:33 am
I copy-and-pasted hastily. There shouldn't be an "and above" after that. It'd take 2000s' id and Epic to put out future-proof system requirements like that.
Since the expected release date has been properly announced, it's time to discuss something serious.
If you intend to make the English translation patch for HM, start planning now. I think I should be able to arrange your communication with the programmer working on the Chinese patch. But even with the right tools and knowledge, there's still some work ahead.
Because, look at this:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/6AA5F6E999333D9522BB6EDEBCB8A4CB_zps6a6b8fb2.jpg)
These are the image files for dialog balloons found in the web trial version. Their shapes, when viewed in the light of HM's overall art direction (the game logo and messages displayed at match beginning and end are all vertically aligned), can only indicate one thing: the dialog text in HM will be displayed vertically, up-to-down then right-to-left, like in a manga.
The English patch will have to add word wrap, make the text horizontally aligned and center-aligned, and probably reduce the default text size to make up for space. For translators, since the size of text balloons are fixed this time (unlike Soku), there will be a problem with the amount of space available, both vertically and horizontally. Hyphenation most likely will have to be done manually. Variable-width font(s) will be helpful.
So, if you know someone who is going to, or might be able and willing to take on the HM English patch, you should pass the message to them.
Analysis of file names:
-Most balloons are named a/b/c/d + Num1 x Num2.
-The a/b/c/d here is balloon type: a=talking (rough edges), b=shouting, c=talking (smooth edges), d=thinking.
-Num1 is the number of characters in each vertically displayed line, and Num2 is the number of lines.
-There are 3 different balloon sizes: small=5x2, medium=11x2, large=15x3.
-The hukidasi (fukidashi=blowing) balloons are talking balloons, larger than type a.
Even the largest balloons are only meant to display 45 kana or kanji characters, or the equivalent of 90 Western characters. (EDIT: the hukidasi balloons are larger than that.)
Post by: Clarste on April 24, 2013, 03:46:48 am
...is it weird that I find the word balloon thing way scarier than the system requirements? It's not like I have a good computer either...
Post by: Formless God on April 24, 2013, 03:56:57 am
Dayum I can't wait to play this game with my future renderstation :getdown:
Quote from: Clarste on April 24, 2013, 03:46:48 am
The CPU requirement is nothing but a joke. The word balloons are serious business.
I'm now looking at the balloon files. They are large enough that as long as the other problems - horizontal alignment, center alignment, word wrap and variable width - can be solved, the amount of space shouldn't be an issue if the text size is sufficiently small. I can still imagine lots of cases that would require manually tweaking the dialog so that they don't look terrible in-game.
At least this task doesn't appear impossible.
Cover art.
http://d-stage.com/shop/detail.php?seq=39859
Post by: Stuffman on April 24, 2013, 11:17:12 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/BuzYppW.png)
MIMA CONFIRMED!! :o
Post by: KaiserKnuckle on April 24, 2013, 11:20:37 pm
Oooh damn, first time i've seen a boss with aura on their (hypothetical) cutin, if the oliveness taking the left is her sillouhette.
Though, if it's the neon green one in the middle that is it, then I can only assume she is a god of some sort, because if I remember correctly, the circular things above her are whatever these things are on his back, (http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/20070619/tk649.jpg) since my mind has failed me in remembering what they were and what they did, though I do think I remember that they were worn by some god.
Quote from: Stuffman on April 24, 2013, 11:17:12 pm
or that :derp:
Post by: Tiamat on April 24, 2013, 11:29:25 pm
In all seriousness, it really might be Mima. I mean, wouldn't say it's super high chance (although it does seem more spirit/ghost-ish than human-ish in shape), but it does seem kinda plausible. Maybe they'll do the god of Hakurei shrine thing after all.
Post by: Zil on April 25, 2013, 12:35:43 am
Quote from: Tiamat on April 24, 2013, 11:29:25 pm
The silhouette pretty clearly has feet, and Mima doesn't. I guess they could have just given her feet for the heck of it, but in any case I really doubt that's Mima of all people.
I thought the chin was a smile at first. Pillsbury dough Mima.
Post by: Tiamat on April 25, 2013, 01:03:56 am
Quote from: Zil on April 25, 2013, 12:35:43 am
The silhouette pretty clearly has feet, and Mima doesn't.
Mima has feet in the last game she appeared in, Mystic Square. (or at least, legs). She doesn't on that retro CD soundtrack cover, but maybe that's just cause its retro
-What's not sure: the objects surrounding her can be vines & flowers (especially if you consider the other silhouette overlayed on the cover to be the same character's profile), spirits (see the game's old logo), or fireballs forming a Buddhist statue halo like a post above has pointed out. The outline of her whole upper body looks thorny, yet her skirt/trousers and shoes don't.
-She is holding some artifact in her right hand, reminescent of Greek or Buddhist statues. I've seen someone cry out "she has Shou's pagoda!" Indeed, if you search for Bishamoten's statue...
-The background pattern depicts fabric. So "heart fabric" is indeed a thing in the story. She's stealing human thoughts to weave into something?
-Someone needs to figure out what plant does the leaf in the new logo belong to.
Post by: Validon98 on April 25, 2013, 01:37:13 am
Quote from: cuc on April 25, 2013, 01:16:48 am
This reminds me of a theory I had regarding the "incident" in this game. While I believe the pessimistic feeling in the Human Village is natural, the sudden disorder and complete lack of care about life resulting from this feeling is not. Someone (most likely the one on the cover) is manipulating the pessimism in the village to create the chaos in the village. For what reason, I don't know. But the sudden chaos just seems REALLY out of place, even with pessimism to back it up.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on April 25, 2013, 01:50:52 am
inb4 it's not Mima and then some people complaining about Zun trolling the fanbase :V
Bishamoten's statue (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%95%E3%82%A1%E3%82%A4%E3%83%AB:Jikoji_tamonten.JPG), note the fireballs on his halo, and the pagoda.
The oni underneath his feet is the Amanojaku mentioned in a post above as speculation for the culprit.
Mashing up all the theories together, so Amanojaku/Amenosagume has disguised herself as her enemy Bishamoten, and is stealing the thoughts of humans to weave them into the heart fabric? That's as good a guess as any. :flowerpower:
The leaf in the new logo, I still can't identify. Looks like Chinese cabbage or radish to me, but I know there are plants that look closer to this one...
EDIT: Probably daimyo oak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_dentata), a common design element in Japanese kamon/emblems.
The fabric pattern on the cover is decorated with bells, platycodon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platycodon_grandiflorus) and a plant I can't identify that shouldn't be Venus flytrap (native to South America).
EDIT2: The plot thickens. There is a 3rd silhouette overlayed in the center, of what appears to be some kind of orchid blades. It has a slightly purple hue. Orchid + fabric + daimyo oak leaf + wisp = ?
Quote from: Magic Magica ~★ on April 25, 2013, 01:50:52 am
no no its defnitly mimer bcoz i can feel mimer in my boner
Post by: Bound on April 25, 2013, 06:49:28 am
No guise, the announcement of the release was made exactly 33 days in advance! The only logical explanation is we're getting a loli Jesus, I mean, seriously.
Actually, the orchid, the bells, platycodons and other details on the background pattern shouldn't be important - they are traditional design motifs ZUN simply draw up from some image libraries, and liberally used throughout the Touhou games. Same for the textures used on the HM game logos (yeah, a Japanese fan has already figured out which library these come from (http://twitpic.com/clk4zf)).
Aside from the game logo, the only things that matter are the dark, aggressive and oppressive tone of the cover, the two silhouettes, and the idea that there are "fabrics".
My friend isolated the character after some work:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/e61190ef76c6a7efe360c373fcfaaf51f3de6624_zps9a089556.png)
Post by: HyperGumba on April 25, 2013, 08:00:17 am
So there is going to be a new character, interesting. This one doesn't look quite like Mima...
It would actually be pretty interesting to have the Hakurei Shrine deity show up at last. It is a religion themed game, after all... though I honestly can't guess what kind of person this on the cover art is supposed to be, I don't know much about Japanese Mythology to make a rough guesstimate.
Another friend's work. So the unidentified plant is the orchid.
The character:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/42166d224f4a20a48992639291529822730ed0d3_zps87070aea.jpg)
The large shadow:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/4e4a20a4462309f741e3f247730e0cf3d6cad6d3_zpsa5e4f8d6.jpg)
The orchid (he missed one or two blades on the upper half):
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/aa64034f78f0f736230913540b55b319eac413eb_zps02d81d9e.jpg)
EDIT: the orchid image helped me see a 4th layer: a bright red satin band, starting from the bottom center, reaching below the left flower.
The orchid and the band are most likely unimportant.
Post by: Tsalop on April 25, 2013, 10:06:07 am
Actually, the orchid, the bells, platycodons and other details on the background pattern shouldn't be important - they are traditional design motifs ZUN simply draw up from some free image libraries, and liberally used throughout the Touhou games. Same for the textures used on the HM game logos (yeah, a Japanese fan has already figured out which library these come from (http://twitpic.com/clk4zf)).
This is the ultimate proof... It is clearly Mima holding the jeweled pagoda.
The results of investigation by knowledgeable Chinese fans:
The orchid is a stock image of sagiso (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habenaria_radiata), a species native to Japan, and a very popular subject of Japanese art. It should be unimportant.
The kashiwa (daimyo oak) leaf in the logo, OTOH, can potentially be important. Kashiwa leaves are sacred leaves that have been used for religious purposes since ancient times in Japan, so only a priest clan such as Mononobe can possibly use it for their emblem, not your average samurai. Its significant is also only confined to Shintoism, not other religions. So, this suggests something with a strong link to Shintoism.
Also, the image libraries ZUN used are not free.
In summary, we've found:
The game logo;
The new character's silhouette;
A large silhouette, may be the same character;
A purely decorative orchid;
A even more pointless, barely visible red satin band;
A fabric motif background, decorated with bells and platycodons (bellflowers).
Post by: Validon98 on April 25, 2013, 06:30:44 pm
Quote from: Tsalop on April 25, 2013, 10:06:07 am
If I hear "It's Mima!" one more time, I'm going to throw my laptop out the window. It's not Mima, it hasn't been Mima for several games now, and I'm tired of people using this as a theory. There is no actual evidence to back it up. Besides, Mima couldn't be possibly related to this incident. Manipulating people's emotions isn't on her power list, last time I checked. I know people want Mima to come back, but it's getting a little ridiculous at this point.
Post by: Suikama on April 25, 2013, 06:40:01 pm
It's Mima!
Post by: Ikari on April 25, 2013, 06:41:07 pm
/me stands by Validon's window.
Hah, this is way less expensive than buying a new one.
5 MAGIC STONES CONFIRMED!! :o
ftfy :V
Post by: Kirin no Sora on April 25, 2013, 08:31:23 pm
Quote from: cuc on April 25, 2013, 02:58:41 pm
Something tells me that a certain someone from Forbidden Scrollery is involved in this game, and that the character in the title screen is something that she 'accidentally' summoned, which is now causing the problem at hand. Since most of the characters see this as an opportunity for their faith, rather than a "oh, someone is causing trouble, we better find out who it is" sort of situation, the competition for popularity that is Hopeless Masquerade begins the way that it does...
...well, that's my theory on it, anyway.
Post by: TheTeff007 on April 25, 2013, 08:43:30 pm
My guess:
Given that the Extra Stage of TD was meant to be a little preview of what to come (Unless ZUN meant that for the Touhou 14 and not HM), and since Mamizou's profile says that she does not gets along with foxes, but that's a story for another day, I believe that the girl in the cover is an Inari (Fox Spirit or something I read).
I'm painfully, yet patientely waiting for the game's release.
Post by: KrackoCloud on April 25, 2013, 11:55:00 pm
Quote from: Validon98 on April 25, 2013, 06:30:44 pm
Pretty sure he was being sarcastic...
Post by: Tengukami on April 26, 2013, 01:22:06 am
I am convinced it will be Mima, as I'm sure we all are. The question isn't "if" but "how" she will appear in the game. Will she:
1. Inexplicably pass across the screen without any dialogue during a randomly selected fight, never to be seen again.
2. Be an unlockable PC gained only by a CPU v. CPU draw.
3. The final boss, but turns out to be Wriggle in clothes made by Mystia (featuring her signature finishing move, "Stag Beetle Crotch Punch").
4. Appear as background art during credits. She is sitting alone at a table, eating soup while crying.
Post by: Polaris on April 26, 2013, 01:58:00 am
If Mima really were to show up then I'd think she'd be one of the spectators in a background like Rinnosuke, since that's the obvious way to bring back all those plot-unrelated characters.
Quote from: Yuki Mori on April 26, 2013, 01:22:06 am
Totally would use cheat engine for that instead. :P
Post by: LadyScarlet on April 26, 2013, 03:00:42 am
Am I the only one who's still hoping Hatate will appear? I already know Mima won't. Besides, if Hatate's in there, Reimu's "No newspaper solicitors please!" amulet winpose would make a lot more sense. She also has an excuse to be in: she's making an article about the religion war and hopes to be more detailed and write a better article than Aya. Speaking of Aya, she has enough screentime; Hatate needs more character development, especially for not getting an article or entry in SoPM.
Well, this time around Reimu's amulet says "Religious solicitations rejected!" I guess she can change the text on her amulet to whatever she wants.
Post by: Lavalake on April 26, 2013, 03:13:42 am
We can't be too sure it's Mima.
For all we know, it mght be Mima's sister, doppelganger, or a clone of Mima.
But if it were to be Mima, I would either:
-Consider her as a final boss
-Random rare spectator.
-Cameo appearance in Credits
But since, every game has a silhouette of someone who is included in the plot, whether the good girl or bad girl.
But I still think there is a chance of Mima coming back. I doubt the game would tell us where she went from Mystic Square to now.
I find it kind of funny that the fandom only cares about who's coming back while ZUN is always looking forward and thinking about new characters and new stories. Touhou has always been about an ever-expanding cast. It'd be awfully boring if we just stuck around with the SDM cast forever.
Nostalgia is one hell of a drug.
Post by: TheTeff007 on April 26, 2013, 04:41:44 am
I wouldn't mind having Flandre in every single game ;)
Quote from: Teff007 on April 26, 2013, 04:41:44 am
Amusingly, Flandre is probably one of the least important characters in the entire series.
Just had a breakthrough regarding the game logos.
Yesterday, a Japanese fan on twitter discovered (https://twitter.com/abysmalhypogeum/status/327008943392047104) that the patterns in the new game logo come from Ise-katagami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ise-katagami), paper stencils used in the dyeing of kimono textiles. (Actually, so does the pattern in the old logo.)
At that moment, he was speculating about whether the content of the pattern has something to do with the story: the pattern on the kashiwa leaf depicts the box and the turtle from the Urashima Taro legend, which for Touhou indicates Toyohime.
OTOH, for me and the Japanese blogger tateito1, seeing the name "Ise" immediately reminds one of the Ise Shrine, the main shrine of Amaterasu and the origin of the historical Eejanaika movement the HM backstory is based on.
But there's a 3rd angle: the purpose of Ise-katagami is to dye fabrics. So while we can't be sure whether the above two connections matter, those patterns are definitely related to HM's motif of "fabric". The two logos of HM are intended to represent either dyed textile or katagami in their concept.
Post by: Shizzo on April 26, 2013, 09:16:41 am
Thanks for sharing all of this info with us cuc!
Would be interesting to see a tailor character on Touhou. Would explain where everybody's frilly dresses come from eh?
Post by: game2011 on April 26, 2013, 12:18:31 pm
I appreciate seeing new characters, but seeing old faces is what the fandom wants most of the time. Look at what happened when Street Fighter 3 replaced most of the previous characters with brand new faces...
Post by: Tengukami on April 26, 2013, 12:20:55 pm
Quote from: game2011 on April 26, 2013, 12:18:31 pm
I appreciate seeing new characters, but seeing old faces is what the fandom wants most of the time.
Post by: Formless God on April 26, 2013, 12:26:30 pm
drunbk bost
Well, a VS game was what brought Yuuka back, if you want to really get technical. Although traditionally the final boss is still always a new character.
...with the exception of Mima, come to think about it.
I love new characters. Sure, I have my favorite old ones, but the girls ZUN dreams up for future games is one of the many things that makes me look forward to new releases. And when a new game comes out, the fandom is pretty quick to leap to cranking out the fanart, and even fan theories. Speaking for myself, there are a few characters I'd welcome seeing again, but mostly, I like seeing new cast members. Gensokyo needs more people!
Quote from: Yuki Mori on April 26, 2013, 12:20:55 pm
Look at what happened when Street Fighter 3 replaced most of the previous characters with brand new faces...
Post by: Amraphenson on April 26, 2013, 01:52:54 pm
Because obviously something that applies to Street Fighter applies here, right?
Post by: Kilgamayan on April 26, 2013, 02:04:09 pm
For what it's worth, my experiences in various Western Touhou communities have been that the populace generally wants older characters back more than they want new characters.
Post by: Zakari on April 26, 2013, 02:05:30 pm
The new character might be Bishamonten in girl form, Fox-Goddess, Fire Goddess or a Weirdo Youkai?
Exactly this.
I like new characters too because they expand the world of Gensokyo, making it more interesting.
If the shadow in the background is the same character as the burning mass out front, what a weird place to put the shadow.
As for old vs. new characters. I like a certain point of characterization that ZUN lacks for a number of his characters, and that is what I would like to see changed. I certainly want new characters, because the fandom just does so much work, but as someone who enjoys making fan theories it's a little difficult when the information you have to go off of is approaching 0. Unfortunately I am in the particularly awkward situation of really like background characters so even if ZUN did make more characterization I feel like my characters would be a low priority.
Post by: Phlegeth on April 26, 2013, 03:09:18 pm
Quote from: Linnah on April 26, 2013, 09:16:41 am
I thought Alice and Kourin made everyone's dresses.
Post by: Zil on April 26, 2013, 03:11:24 pm
Quote from: Kilgamayandango on April 26, 2013, 02:04:09 pm
Really? What do you mean when you say people want old characters "back"? I mean, even for folks like Kaguya, Prismrivers, etc. who haven't made an in-game appearance in a long time, they haven't really gone anywhere. It's not like we could "get them back" somehow. They're still popular, all over fanworks and stuff.
From what I've seen (not that I'm very experienced with communities outside this one) people only seem to make that kind of complaint about PC-98 characters, and I think they still seem like a minority. It's probably more about wanting the characters to be more popular rather than actually wanting them to appear in a game, which is why you don't hear people screaming for someone like Rumia to return. She's popular despite not being in any new games, so nobody feels like she's vanished from the universe or whatever, while Mima, despite all the noise, is a relatively unpopular character. The complaining about Sakuya not being playable is probably more about a dislike of newer characters (Sanae in particular) than an actual love for Sakuya herself. And in any event you hear even less of that than you do the usual PC-98 complaining.
But in case, my point is that I'd find it very surprising if most people actually do want old characters to be recycled, rather than having new ones added. It's seems like a kind of bitter attitude to me, and I don't get the impression that the fandom is like that, at least in general. As I said, they're usually making a fuss about unpopular characters, and rabid fans of unpopular characters are almost by definition a minority.
Also, many thanks to cuc for all the interesting info.
Yeah, I do think there's a big signal-to-noise ratio when it comes to the fandom and New vs. Old characters. People who want their old favorites back are just going to be more vocal. Those who want new characters aren't going to have to push and shout for them; they're going to happen anyway. But those who want their old ones back have little chance of seeing it happen, and so through some kind of magical thinking, feel the need to shout repeatedly about getting them back. See, for example, how loud and often Mima fans appear, as opposed to how low she ranks among Touhou character polls.
When a new regular danmaku games comes out, I always really hope for Zun to not put an old character as a boss, because in my opinion, this makes the game sort of "incomplete" I mean, like what happened with Ten Desires. The fact that an old character (Yuyuko) got recycled caused the game to get a "hole" in stage 1. It stole the opportunity of a new character getting introduced and shining on her own stage, which disappointed me somewhat.
I'm fine with old characters as playable ones, though. When it comes to fighting games, there's always several old characters returning as playable, and I see no problem with that, since it has always been like that anyway. But I still always hope to see at least 1 new character as the final boss, and possibly a second one as sub-boss (like what happened on SWR, which had the introduction of two new girls).
I just want to say that I am geniunely sorry for causing a Mima derail.
It's OK, Stuffs. I'm just glad it was you.
Quote from: Amra on April 26, 2013, 01:52:54 pm
I'm talking about fandoms in general. Also, I remember someone here saying during TD's production that s/he prefers it if ZUN reuses characters more often instead of creating new ones.
Be that as it may, the fact still remains that the people who want old characters back are just going to be more vocal than those who want new ones, based on the likelihood of new characters vs old ones. If vocalization were the sole data point, Mima would be the most popular character in every Touhou poll taken since 2004 or something.
Quote from: Formless Void on April 26, 2013, 12:26:30 pm
My quote, altered to "what I want most of the time".
No, I prefer new characters more than old ones.
Yeah, I misread that.
Maybe people just want an old character in HM because the majority of the cast (besides the usual Reimu and Marisa) are the relatively new people (the plot itself makes it quite probable we're only going to see MoF+ characters as playable).
As an aside, I woudln't ever expect an old character to return for a main-series Danmaku game as a boss, and I don't think anyone else is ever asking for that. Yuyuko in Ten Desires is practically the only case it ever happened (Well, and Reimu and Marisa in Imperishable Night as well as Mima but only if you count PC-98 in the first place). Returning bosses is what the Aya games are for.
For the most part, ZUN himself stated he prefers making new characters, IIRC. Although Phantasmagoria of Flower View had to have one of the more... not-mainstream casts out there (compare PoSD to Imperishable Night, the latter of which appears to use the most popular characters while the former, after having all the playable ones, slaps in a whole ton of nigh random choices, including Yuuka of all people)
For the record, I wrote my post while disregarding the Mima fandom, because the overwhelming majority of cries for Mima to return are some combination of hipster, ironic, and brainless, and all of them that aren't ironic are delusional. It's a fanbase that has earned its ignorability.
I speak of characters "coming back" in the Youmu-in-10D sense more than the Yuuka-in-WaHH sense. In that sense, I would not only not say it's surprising that people would want characters to return, I would go so far as to say that it would be very bad if people didn't want characters to return, because that implies ZUN has done a piss-poor job of creating likable characters. People want characters to return because they're attached to those characters and want to see the characters expanded upon further (and we all know how much room there is for this) so there is even more of that character.
Just as one example in a world of them, 10D and Soap 'Em gave us an ancient naive cowardly arsonist human(ish) with a boat, an accent, and a funny hat that stands out in a world of funny hats. She instantly shot up past her peers towar the upper echelon of the popularity poll rankings, and of all the names I've seen shouted for in terms of who "should" be in TH14, hers has been the loudest, and by a fairly wide margin at that.
Now TH14 could include her as a playable, just as 10D did with Youmu. From a gameplay standpoint, we could see an enjoyable new shot type (I hold that Youmu's shot type is the second-best thing about 10D after Miko). From a characterization standppoint, we could see a cute girl from ancient times meeting new people and marveling at modern innovations. What if she ran into Nitori? Imagine the hilarity that would ensue! And so on and so forth.
Or TH14 could include an entirely new cast of characters. Some of them could be enjoyable as characters - in fact, there are pretty good odds at least one will stick out. But it's not a guarantee, and it leaves the nigh-endless potential for Futo shenanigans untapped, which is very likely an disgustingly undesirable outcome for all the people that helped launch her to19th.
The fact that an old character (Yuyuko) got recycled caused the game to get a "hole" in stage 1. It stole the opportunity of a new character getting introduced and shining on her own stage, which disappointed me somewhat.
Do characters really shine in their stages though? Rather how much is a stage 1 appearance really worth? Yamame and Kisume are the best examples I can think of right away, but I think the same argument can be made with a few early stage bosses. What do they contribute?
Alice and Aya did the same thing, but the latter's case is different in the way that she first appeared in a nontraditional shooting game.
And Touhou 9's plot involves flowers, so Yuuka's appearance makes sense.
Quote from: Imosa on April 26, 2013, 05:11:42 pm
They contribute to nothing, except for Yuyuko in TD that actually gave the player character useful information rather than just getting in the way and saying "Oh, a human! Let's fight!"
By "shining" I mean that they get the chance to have their own stage, their own theme and spellcards. The stage as a whole focuses on them, giving the character their unique features, and something that makes us remember them, despite their unimportance. I was never trying to imply that they're popular, nor important to gensokyo, nor to the game's plot.
You may interpret "shining" as poor choice of words then. But I can't find anything else to express my thoughts better, so it'll stay like this.
Post by: BATMANDANCEPARTY on April 26, 2013, 06:53:18 pm
Not to derail anything but I noticed that the wiki mentions Hopeless Masquerade coming out on Reitaisai 10 (May 26, 2013)
Apologies in advance if this has been mentioned or if I disturbed any flow but I can't stop bouncing off the walls
I hear there is a certain mouse that would like to speak to those discussing how irrelevant Stage 1 characters are. Maybe Drake can go fetch her?
Yeah, Nazrin too. Sorry... forgot to mention her on my post.
As for the others, they're completely irrelevant. I'm hoping the stage 1 boss of th14 will be at least relatively important to the plot.
Nazrin, like Yuyuko, is another special case, to the point where ZUN lampshades it by referring to Kogasa as the only passerby youkai in the game. Of course, given that these two special cases showed up in the most recent games (UFO and TD, respectively), maybe we can expect more special cases for stage 1 bosses from here on.
I'm really reluctant to extrapolate a trend from just two consecutive games. That might be because I want a Stage 1 character with personality and importance to the story.
@Kilga: Alright. I interpreted bringing them back as sort of a "back from the grave" thing. But I see what you mean now, and it makes sense.
Well, in THAT sense, everyone wants Orange back. Because if you don't wwant Orange back, you're a Communist.
You mean a Hong Meiling fan.
There's a difference?
Mweh, everyone knows that Hong Meiling / Orange will be added in a future patch/expansion, anyways. Also, I thought Hong Meiling was the communist.
I have no issue with that definition of shining.
My position is coming from having worked on my character relationship chart and what I notice is that the lack of canon relationships is rather disappointing. If there were less characters then the existing ones would have more relationships and I'd be making a much more interesting chart.
I guess I should point out that I love the relationships in the Myouren Temple, so I guess it did things right.
Youkai are actually naturally kinda anathema to relationships. Most of them don't even bother to refer to them by name but instead just say "Hey you!" to each other (stated directly by ZUN himself in an interview), and youkai of the same species has trouble working together (witness the kappa in wild and horned hermit). The tengu are stated by Ran to be merely an imitation of human society and Akyuu states the Scarlet Devil Mansion lives a lifestyle that is neither youkai nor human, which implies that these sorts of "youkai organizations" are rare. It's also one of the reasons why Byakuren can be seen as a bit naive, because she's banding youkai together but in actuality they're still mostly off doing their own things.
In many cases, when youkai do follow a leader, it's because that leader is strong. At least, that's what Aya tells Chen is the key to getting followers and why Chen follows Ran (Ran is implied to have become Yukari's shikigami for power, too).
The stage 1 and 2 youkai (the "passerby" youkai) that lack relationships are actually what most youkai are normally naturally like. I suppose the fact that the youkai from stages 3 or 4 onwards are in an organizational structure might be because it takes a youkai/being strong or charismatic enough to band together other youkai to cause an incident of such magnitude in the first place.
Good observation. ZUN said during the Dawn of Touhou lecture: the early stages are for worldbuilding, and the later stages are the main story.
Post by: Aya Reiko on April 27, 2013, 08:03:45 am
Or who repairs them whenever they lose a fight.
A new banner for HM from here (http://www.toranoana.jp/mailorder/cit/pagekit/0000/00/05/000000054204/index.html):
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/torath135_zps4630a2a4.jpg)
Overlaying the banner onto the cover...
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/d1a20cf431adcbef6c601351adaf2edda3cc9f14_zps52f133f1.png)
...produces a better silhouette:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/f9dcd100baa1cd111e911f77b812c8fcc3ce2d45_zpsb4d843c1.png)
I already have a good idea of how to read the image. Although I'm interested to see your reading. :D
Post by: Malyszeq on April 27, 2013, 12:04:30 pm
Okay, it looks like... roses. Really, Koishi imagery is comig to my mind just now. Flaming roses? Don't know how to tackle this one. Although I got a concept for the events of the game, although this is pure speculation of course.
The new antagonist seems to be responsible of stealing/altering emotions, leaving people in a state of despair and hopelessness. My guess is that it might be a youkai, who is trying to become a a god by stealing people's faith and emotions, and weaving them in herself in some way, so she can "masquerade" herself as a god/celestial/whatever. The "heart fabric" might be a concept of weaving human's hopes and fears into something that can render the antagonist a god or a saviour to those people - a holy kimonoi, or sth like that... Might be this Amanojaku still, e.g posing as Bishamonten for the lulz and pissing of Shou that way.
Thinking of a youkai that feeds of people happiness and emotions, rendering them hopeless sounds awfully like a dementor. If that's the case I can see so many HP x Touhou fanfics and memes incoming in the next months...
Looks like you found her bust, at least. :blush:
Post by: Tsalop on April 27, 2013, 12:24:42 pm
Well, I think that she is holding a jeweled pagoda and a paddle fan (is that a correct name?)...
And those two things floating around her could be anything... Lanterns maybe?
Floatthings are probably masks judging from the geometry.
Not sure what the hell is going on in the area around the kanji for East.
I hope she isn't wearing baggy pants.
Floating things are lotus blossoms, and she is wearing poofy pants.
Yeah it's gotta be poofy pants. That or ZUN drew the skirt. The blobs are masks.
Actually I wonder if she might be some kind of goofy mime character, like Gogo from Final Fantasy.
cuc said the character might have strong links with shintoism.
If the thing she is holding is really a jeweled pagoda... then, how many shinto gods/figures are usually seen holding one?
I think it's safe to say that most Gensokyans have strong links with Shinto; even the ones who aren't Shinto per se.
Ok, if that's the case, I guess I would ask if those characters have been properly fulfilling the roll of "worldbuilding", and is that roll even valuable for the series. If the early stage touhous are part of the world but are never interacted with, then aren't they just building a world we never see?
Those stage 1 ~ 2 characters for the most part are simply not important. You can take them out of the game and there won't be any difference to the plot.
They're just there not to leave the stage without a boss. If Zun were to jump straight to the main story, the games would be too short, having less than six stages.
Some latter stages bosses sometimes aren't necessarily important neither, such as the prismrivers.
Suddenly, the idea of floating masks has given me another idea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannya
Suddenly, Parsee as an antagonist makes some sense xD
Am I the only person here who thought of the character being related to Hina when I saw the silhouette? Her stance sort of looks like Hina if the latter is facing the screen, and the balls of fire around her makes me think of misfortunes that take the form of purple fireballs, like how when a person is depressed in animes/mangas, such things are drawn floating around him/her for a comical effect.
Quote from: Malyszeq on April 27, 2013, 12:04:30 pm
I like this prediction yup.
Well, to be more specific, kashiwa leaves are foremostly used to wrap around offerings to Shinto gods.
Like you, I'd much prefer the story to have more interactions, to sympathize with everyone, not restricted to the handful of characters ZUN actually cares about. However, I know what worldbuilding means here. These characters are not important on their own. Instead, they give you a feel for what the Touhou universe in general is like. IN has shown the night of Gensokyo, MoF has explored the Youkai Mountain, and SA has introduced the underground.
Unlike previous shooting games, UFO and TD are tightly plotted, with everyone contributing to the story (even Kogasa), that is true.
Can't help but see masks.
They look to me like Orin's flaming skulls.
the new official character has
>Strange rose-shaped fire
>poofy pants
>hairstyle that looks like from the Circus
not sure if a Loli or another Old Hag?
Post by: Kosachi on April 27, 2013, 07:39:03 pm
It's really not surprising if the objects floating behind "Mystery Character X" are masks considering the game is called Hopeless Masquereade. Last time I checked, you can't have a masquerade without masks.
Even if you look at it from the perspective of the other definition of the word, it still makes sense since a mask can be used to appear as someone or something else.
Post by: Imosa on April 28, 2013, 03:42:08 am
Fleshing out his universe is a fine endeavor but is it the best endeavor? Is the return on a large number of 2 dimensional characters greater then the return on a smaller number of 3 dimensional characters? I'm not so sure it is, certainly not if we were only looking at the cannon material.
However, I would say that the only reason I think he could (and perhaps should) continue this practice, is because the fan base can latch on to these characters and make some pretty neat stuff. If it weren't for Touhou Tuesdays I'd never think about Wriggle, if it weren't for Little Reimu I'd never think about Rumia, and if it weren't for... so many people... I'd never about Cirno.
Incidentally, the fiction that maximizes plot relevance per number of characters is All You Zombies.
Well, as pointed out by me and others, ZUN seems to be bucking the trend with more recent games anyways. Kogasa was the only passerby youkai in UFO and even she was kinda important to the plot to show how youkai could be picked on, too (and also showed up in the extra stage. A first for a passerby youkai). And Ten Desires didn't have a single passerby youkai at all (well, unless you count Kogasa's reappearance, but even she at least interacted with the main plot).
See, again, I don't think two consecutive games is a "trend". Sounds more like a coincidence.
I agree with Yuki Mori. However, I'm not really worried either way. I could agree with both decisions.
Who said it was a trend? I said he was "bucking the trend". That's like, the opposite of a trend.
Quote from: Tiamat on April 29, 2013, 02:56:55 am
Not to spend too much time splitting this hair too finely, but you are saying that, because of two similar things that happened in two consecutive games, we can draw the conclusion that ZUN is taking a new direction. You are identifying a pattern of behavior and yes, that is a trend. Though you used the phrase "bucking the trend", this isn't actually the opposite of a trend.
Not really. The new "trend" isn't a trend. In UFO, Nazrin is related to the rest of the main antagonists' group, but in Ten Desires, Yuyuko is not nor is Kyouko. So as you can see, there is no new trend started. Just an old trend ended. In either case, there is no more trend. A trend ending does not necessarily create a new trend.
What YOU should be saying instead is "I don't think the old trend is ending", not "I don't think two consecutive games is a trend."
I would call Kyouko a passerby youkai in TD. She didn't really serve any purpose in the plot, she was just a generic youkai hanging out at the temple. She served the worldbuilding purpose of showing that Myourenji was actually attracting new followers, but that they were still youkai at heart. But she's ultimately unrelated to anything going on other than living there. She's as much a passerby as Nitori or Parsee.
As for "wide vs tall" character development, I can sympathize with the idea of seeing fewer people in more detail, and I certainly tune out whenever people start talking about uninteresting characters like Yamame or Cirno, but isn't that what the databooks and such are for? Also side materials like the manga. They let you focus in on characters who may be unimportant but flesh out Gensokyo as a place where not everyone is important. That's something I care about.
This is my sentiment exactly.
Purely illogical fantasy: Koishi in the game.
What will probably happen: New final boss which will be awesome anyway.
Quote from: Ikari on April 30, 2013, 01:25:17 pm
You're mad
That is totally logical. You probably haven't noticed yet :V
HEY EVERYONE GPOP REALLY LIKES KOISHI
NO SERIOUSLY HE DOES
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on April 30, 2013, 04:04:06 pm
Playable EX-Keine or bust.
On a lesser note, he likes her more than Demo. Am I cool with that? I guess so. It's not like she (Demo) has too much of an official backstory... yet.
But enough derailing. I'm just excited for this to be coming out within a month! Hopefully they'll start releasing roster information soon, because I'm a bit curious (read: very curious) to who's on board. I predict at the very least Sanae, maybe either Suwako or Kanako (or both), Miko, Futo, Byakuren, and perhaps Seiga. Those are the most obvious, but you never know who's going to be in it.
I need to think about this a little. That "Gensokyo as a place where not everyone is important" seems like something that should be established but something about ZUN's characters makes this very awkward.
The early stage characters are in a strange place in my opinion. On one hand they do flesh out the world of Gensokyo by showing the sort of stuff that inhabits the world. Mystia, for example, is one of many night sparrows, and is treated pretty inconsequentially in IN. However, she also sells grilled lamprey and sings in a punk rock band. These things can't be typical of night sparrows, so she does stand out from the crowd. So on one hand shes one of these unimportant characters and on the other she is her own character. Becoming her own character is a good thing, but in doing so Gensokyo, and more specifically the Night Sparrows, louse their mundanity that readers are looking for.
My answer would have been something like, introducing multiple Night Sparrows, maybe even in stage 2 of IN, and then elevating one with things like being in the punk rock band. That would further smooth out the gradient from important to unimportant character.
Post by: Mayson on April 30, 2013, 08:22:52 pm
The early stage characters are in a strange place in my opinion. [...] So on one hand shes one of these unimportant characters and on the other she is her own character.
Actually, it makes sense. Let's just look at our own world. Everyone has his own hobbies, professions and friend circles he operates in. You could argue that everyone outside of these boundaries is at first glance just "more humans". At the same time, everyone is his own personality and behaves as such, has certain physical features and state of minds.
It makes sense to flesh even random characters out, it makes the world more lively. Worlds where there are just the "main characters" and "plot characters" and everyone else is villager X / Youkai Y / Trespasser Z are not very immersive because of the lack of existing "personalities".
However, she also sells grilled lamprey and sings in a punk rock band.
Is this something from fandom? I never heard of that...
Quote from: Mayson on April 30, 2013, 08:22:52 pm
something from fandom? I never heard of that...
It is indeed canon. She was seen pushing around her food cart in Oriental Sacred Place and is shown doing vocals in a band with Kyouko in Symposium of Post Mysticism.
Quote from: Kosachi on April 30, 2013, 08:43:47 pm
You learn something new everyday I guess.
Post by: commandercool on April 30, 2013, 09:41:41 pm
Quote from: Wild Witchy West on April 30, 2013, 04:04:06 pm
If Tasogare gave me executive control over the cast list this would be Imperishable Night Vs. Subterranean Animism: The Fighting Game Also Incidentally Some Buddhists Are Here Or Whatever (or INVSATFGAISBAHOW for short). But they didn't, so I would totally settle for just Keine and Yuugi in an otherwise religious war-centric cast... ;)
It'd be nice if there were more generic enemies than just fairies all the time. Though I guess there were at least lots of Hell Ravens in Utsuho's stage.
Post by: Sagus on April 30, 2013, 10:32:51 pm
Also rabbits in IN's 5th stage (dunno about the 6th, never got there), and Divine Spirits in TD. But yeah, more generic youkai enemies would be interesting.
Post by: Clarste on April 30, 2013, 10:41:55 pm
The Hell Crows in SA were recycled from the non-Hell Crows in MoF.
There are also kedamas, books (are those EoSD exclusive? I think they are), yin-yang orbs, and variant fairies like UFO, zombie, and Makai fairies.
Quote from: commandercool on April 30, 2013, 10:43:19 pm
Don't forget the "cursed" fairies from TD (they're the ones that hold the spirits and look like they're really old or undead looking). Also, the books are unique to EoSD, disregarding fangames.
There's also all of the unique enemies in the PC-98 games. We had a LOT of those (random cannons from the sides in SoEW's first stage, anyone?).
Post by: cuc on May 01, 2013, 03:05:29 am
Time to talk about the silhouette. We've got some good guesses in this thread!
The following ideas are a result of my discussion with friends, although people here and on Japanese forums have come to similar conclusions.
Almost unquestionable:
The shapes to the upper left of the logo are her fingers. She is holding one hand up, with her palm pointing to the sky.
Unconfirmed but likely:
1. The floating objects resemble masks: flat objects convexing on one side.
2. Reading of her pose depends on which hand she is holding up. If it's the right hand, then her pose probably resembles Ran's SC pose, with right arm up, left arm at her chest.
More likely, it's the left hand. She is stretching her right arm out while holding something in her hand, and putting her left hand up near her face. Her legs are also crossed. She is dancing
3. What has both masks and dancing? A masquerade.
Speculation:
There are two related important activities in Japan that involves masks and dancing: kagura, the Shinto ritual dance, and noh theatre.
A ritual dance has been shown in Touhou before, when Yorihime summoned Amaterasu. The HM character's dance might be even closer to a real shrine maiden's, since she's holding some artifact in her right hand. Alternatively, it could be another mask in her hand. Yes, she is very likely a Shinto shaman/priestess, just like Reimu, Sanae, Yorihime and Futo.
The most famous kagura dance in mythology is that of Ame-no-uzume, which is one of the three things that caused Amaterasu to come out of hiding from a cave. Later Ame-no-uzume would serve under what would become the imperial family, and in one legend, marry Saruta-hiko and begot the tengu race.
we've also brought up Ame-no-sagume. She's a servant of Ame-no-wakahiko, the first messenger Amaterasu sent to Izumo. She has also been speculated by scholars to be a symbolization of shaman. In folklore, she may have become the demon Amanojaku, which we've already discussed here.
Considering the sacred kashiwa leaf in the logo, associated with the high priests, the HM character may indeed be a messenger from high above, just like Ame-no-uzume or Ame-no-sagume. She's also likely to have a strong noh motif.
Post by: commandercool on May 01, 2013, 03:36:15 am
If I had to guess just based on the premise of the game I would assume the new character is going to be aligned with Miko. If the game is about a religious war and Taoism is supposed to be a competitive faction they really need at least one more big gun. They have the fewest characters, and I believe the weakest ones as well (although some of that is based on in-game difficulty, which shouldn't really count). If you're going to drag actual deduction into it though, you're probably a lot closer to right than I am. ;)
Post by: Clarste on May 01, 2013, 04:17:40 am
I've always seen Miko as the strongest, personally. Not because of her danmaku or anything, but just because of who she is. She's got that whole Imperial Divine Right natural-leader thing. Emphasis has been put on her talent from an early age and all that. Byakuren's just a random youkai magician with some eclectic followers (although I guess you might say she has strength in numbers) and Kanako is... well I guess she's a god, but she's also a god who recently ran into some faith troubles and make a big gamble coming to Gensokyo, where most of her plans seem to fail or run into setbacks. She's a formerly powerful god on the decline. While by contrast Miko has only gotten more divine and legendary since her "death'".
I'll admit there's nothing particularly canonical about this, it's the just the impression I get of their characters. Also Seiga's fighting off assassins from Hell and laughing it off, if you want to count her as part of the group.
Also, doesn't Shinto have less than the Taoists? Sanae, Kanako, Suwako. I doubt Reimu's fighting on their side, but even if she is that just ties them.
Post by: game2011 on May 01, 2013, 04:19:50 am
I thought Mystia selling grilled lampreys in canon is common knowledge by now...
For a kagura pose. See SSIB Ch 16 P 24, where Yorihime summoned Ame-no-uzume onto herself, then by proxy summoned Amaterasu through kagura.
For a proper kagura artifact - a thing full of bells, see SSIB Ch 18 P 11.
Post by: Shizzo on May 01, 2013, 07:21:41 am
Sure would be interesting if she was a dancer. If those things floating around her are really masks, imagine if gameplay wise she would change stances among with masks? Geez, this is all making me look forward to the 25th even more!
Post by: Retsim Reklats on May 01, 2013, 02:10:06 pm
Sorry to bring this up again, but I'm still very shocked about it being in i7..
And I can't see any answers or responds that justify this..
So is that for real?
Someone?
Post by: Clarste on May 01, 2013, 02:26:50 pm
I don't think anyone's taking it seriously because it's absurd.
Post by: Giratina93 on May 01, 2013, 02:37:28 pm
Yeah, that kind of requirement is just... they have to be joking. There's no way that's really the case.
As for our mysterious silhouette, if she does have masks and dancing... well, that would be quite interesting. I personally would have loved to see a Yamata-no-Orochi based character, and am actually surprised ZUN hasn't done one yet... But whatever our mysterious antagonist is, I most likely won't be complaining.
Post by: commandercool on May 01, 2013, 03:00:19 pm
Quote from: Clarste on May 01, 2013, 04:17:40 am
A lot of time in-game was spent establishing Byakruen as a big deal, what with her casually stealing everyone's shot types and upshowing them. She definitely has strength in numbers, and quite a few of her followers (Mamizou, probably Nue, and possibly Shou) seem to be exceptionally strong in-universe, along with having very useful non-shooting powers.
Miko's special ability probably makes her more dangerous than was really evident in-game, but she's fairly light on followers right now, not to mention less established in the world and Byakruen and likely cut off from a majority of the people who would still be loyal to her as well (similarly to Byakuren, but without the ideology that's attractive to both Youkai and humans that I bet makes making friends a lot easier). Although I suppose Miko does have name recognition, so that might be enough to rope her some new followers.
Kanako doesn't seem exceptionally strong in canon, but she is apparently quite a schemer, and there are theoretically way more Shinto gods floating around Gensokyo than just the relatively few we've seen. Not to mention that their numbers include at the very least Hina and the Aki sisters (who would be a weird choice for a fighting game now that I think about it). And I did kind of automatically count Reimu as being on their side, but you're right that there's nothing really indicating that she would side with them. It would be pretty cool to finally see her shrine's god though.
So with literal in-canon numbers we have seven for Shinto (not counting Reimu but counting the Akis as separate characters), nine for Buddhism (counting Ichirin and Unzan as the same character) and five for Taoism. Given that I would be pretty surprised if Soga or Yoshika became full-on independent playable characters, that's slim pickings for Miko. I suppose three characters for each side would be enough, but numerically and possibly in the story Miko does seem to be lagging behind the other groups.
Post by: Tengukami on May 01, 2013, 03:02:40 pm
Quote from: game2011 on May 01, 2013, 04:19:50 am
Pretty sure Mayson was talking about Mystia singing in a punk band.
Post by: Validon98 on May 01, 2013, 03:41:31 pm
I honestly think Reimu will be representing Shintoism if only for the fact that she is still a Shinto shrine maiden and the fact that her title in this game is "The Advocate of the Eight Million." However, I think she and perhaps Marisa will be their own faction representing not only Shintoism, but the Human Village as well (Marisa's title is "The Human-Representative Magician," which would support that). Remember: Reimu is concerned about things going on in the Human Village, so I think she's not only doing this to raise her shrine's popularity, but out of actual concern for what's going on. Whatever the case, I don't think she'll represent Shintoism in the sense that she's aligned with the Moriya Shrine, but she'll represent it independently.
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 01, 2013, 03:46:48 pm
The Moriya Shrine also sorta has Utsuho and Satori, though how loyal those two are to the Moriyas as opposed to themselves is uncertain.
The Buddhists have numbers and Byakuren has enhancement magic, which means that they've got both a lot of able bodies and a major force multiplier.
The Taoists...Well, I dunno what they have going for them, especially since apparently Seiga went her own way after TD. I think Miko's supposed to be some sort of genius-level strategist IIRC, though, and there's Kasen, though she largely stays off on her own.
Quote from: Wild Witchy West on May 01, 2013, 03:46:48 pm
and there's Kasen, though she largely stays off on her own.
I honestly don't think Kasen will get too involved (she's not even a real hermit, so even if she did get involved she wouldn't be on the side of the Taoists I would think). Maybe she might be on Byakuren's side, but that's just the whole "equal humans and youkai" thing. You're right about the Buddhist faction, though: They seem VERY capable and in an actual battle I think they would come out on top from sheer manpower combined with Byakuren's magic.
Quote from: Validon98 on May 01, 2013, 03:52:33 pm
I honestly don't think Kasen will get too involved (she's not even a real hermit, so even if she did get involved she wouldn't be on the side of the Taoists I would think).
I...Honestly did not know that. What is she then, a part-time hermit? :V
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 01, 2013, 04:35:00 pm
We don't know what she is. That chapter of WaHH ended on that cliffhanger.
Oooooh, okay. I missed that chapter, apparently. :getdown:
TIME TO CATCH UP FOR ME.
Post by: Aya Reiko on May 01, 2013, 04:50:30 pm
Quote from: Kilgamayandango on May 01, 2013, 04:35:00 pm
Though it's heavily implied she's an oni.
Post by: game2011 on May 01, 2013, 05:27:15 pm
Quote from: Yuki Mori on May 01, 2013, 03:02:40 pm
If so, then sorry for misunderstanding...
I honestly think Reimu will be representing Shintoism if only for the fact that she is still a Shinto shrine maiden and the fact that her title in this game is "The Advocate of the Eight Million."
Yeah, I think we can pretty much count on that. Reimu is Shinto, and seems to react to other faiths - even Buddhism - with grudging tolerance at best.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 01, 2013, 06:03:45 pm
Just 20 days and a little before the final release. I can barely wait.
Pretty sure the silhouette girl will be the only new character on the game... since creating sprites/frames for a lot of different characters would be too time consuming. But that's still good anyway, at least better than nothing.
Post by: TheTeff007 on May 01, 2013, 06:53:48 pm
Quote from: Magic Magica ~★ on May 01, 2013, 06:03:45 pm
Wha-? Wasn't released on the 26? Yay! All the better then!
And even if It's only one girl, it will be well-received.
What I wan't to know the most is: How Story Mode will be? I mean, same as the other or what?
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on May 01, 2013, 07:35:19 pm
Quote from: Teff007 on May 01, 2013, 06:53:48 pm
I'm wondering this as well.
They'll probably give the Story Mode fights some sort of gimmick, like the Spell Break Gauge in Soku.
I'm hoping Story Mode won't have a spell card feature like on IaMP and SWR. I mean, forcing you to break the enemy's spell cards in order to proceed. I'd just want regular fights, like on the demo/or fighting games in general.
The main reason for those Spellcards is because the AI in the fighting games is, for lack of a better word, retarded. Without them, the fights would be laughably easy even on Lunatic, so the Spellcards are there to give them some form of challenge. If the AI in HM were like the earlier demo, then I could see there being no need for forced Spellcards, but since the AI was changed back into being silly in the recent web demo...
Makin' a list of who we haven't seen yet...
... maybe we can guess who may show up...
Hong Meiling
Letty
Wriggle
Mystia
Yuuka
Shizuha
Minoriko
Nitori
Kanako
Suwako (Side note: No one from MoF has been seen yet...)
Kisume
Yamame
Parsee
Utsuho
Koishi
Hatate
Kogasa
Byakuren
Kyouko
Seiga
Tojiko
Futo
Mamizou (Side note: Likewise, no one from 10D has been seen yet...)
Akyu
Yorihime
Toyohime
From the list above, I'd say:
High chances: Shou, Byakuren, Futo, Miko
Average chances: Sanae, Aya, Mamizou
Suwako and Kanako has better chances of appearing on Sanae's stage in the audience than being playable characters themselves.
All the others have either low or no chances of appearing. Except maybe in the audience of random stages.
Do we know how many characters the game is supposed to have? I would generally expect more than just 10-12 for a fighting game. Or are there people you expect to see but who aren't on that list?
Quote from: commandercool on May 01, 2013, 03:00:19 pm
I have to admit I have no idea what you're talking about. When did Byakuren steal everyone's shot type? When was she even said to be powerful? Honestly I think Shou gets more hype than her, what with the "reduced to ash" thing in SoPM. But yes, she has good followers.
Byakuren's ideology isn't very attractive to humans, and Miko's is. Remember, Miko's the champion of humanity among our three leaders. Byakuren attracts youkai, while Miko attracts humans. Although admittedly youkai are probably stronger than humans on average. Also, it's specifically said that Byakuren has a hard time making friends because she doesn't attend drinking parties. There's an implication that people think of her as kind of a boring stick-in-the-mud.
Shinto gods compete with each other though. There's no reason for them to form any kind of faction. I'm pretty sure it's only the Moriya Shrine faction, rather than an alliance of all Shinto gods. Although, to be fair there's no reason for the Taoists to work together either, which can split them up into Miko + her vassals and Seiga + her zombie. Whether they work together or not depends on Seiga's mood.
Honestly I would expect only 2 characters per side. Mostly because as you say the Taoists don't have enough heavy hitters, although I'd extend that to Moriya too (Suwako is strong but I can't see her getting involved in something like this). Maybe the Buddhists numerical advantage could be represented by giving them 3 on their side? Which would bring the playable character count to 2 protagonists, 2 Tao, 2 Shinto, 3 Buddha, and 1 final boss for a total of 10. Which seems reasonable to me for a revamped graphics engine. IaMP started with 10 too.
Quote from: Clarste on May 01, 2013, 11:46:51 pm
During her fight in UFO she uses Reimu's amulets, Marisa's stars, Yuyuko's butterflies, and an entire attack from Shinki. Granted it's not that rare for last bosses to use amulets and/or butterflies, but stars are fairly rare. At least I saw some significance in the fact that she uses a variety of other characters' trademark bullets.
I seem to remember Byakuren's new temple being popular with both humans and Youkai in at least one of the UFO endings, but admittedly I haven't played it in a while.
I haven't been paying close attention to anything revealed in the demo yet since I'm waiting on the full game, so if the Shinto faction is in fact the Moriya faction I probably missed it. Given Kanako's apparent tendency to manipulate people into doing what she wants it seems to follow that she could unite a number of Shinto gods if she and they are being threatened by other religions. Even if they don't work together normally it seems reasonable that they would at least not be working against each-other in a religious war. Similarly for Miko and Seiga, this seems like a decent reason to get back together for a while.
Yeah, I guess given the new system an extremely tiny cast is possible. If that's the case, that breakdown sounds about right. Who would you expect to see in that case?
Reimu
Ichirin+Unzan
I couldn't even guess who the third Buddhist slot might be. Murasa, Shou, Nue, or Mamizou are all strong contenders and I can't think of anything that would give one of them a better chance than the others. And I would really like to see Seiga+Yoshika as a playable character, but Futo seems more likely.
Quote from: commandercool on May 02, 2013, 12:11:12 am
This was explained in SoPM as being due to Shou giving the temple good fortune. Business is booming, but that's just business. Her ideology hasn't really caught on, not even among her own followers. Well, to be fair it says that her visitors stick around because of her words, but its popularity isn't spreading through word of mouth or anything. Shou is just overpowered as a god of fortune.
To be honest I don't think it was ever stated, I was just making an assumption since Kanako was one of the main characters of SoPM. When you talk about a 3 way clash between the religions it's hard for me to not think it's an extension of SoPM. On the other hand, it's unlikely that Reimu would take it on herself to champion Shinto, and Kanako is definitely the best choice for a leader of that faction. Not to mention Sanae is essentially a protagonist by now so she'll certainly show up. I still really really doubt that they'd ally with other random Shinto gods though. There's really no point, both from the perspective of the strength of these minor gods and because they're directly competing with each other. From a historical standpoint, the idea of Shinto even being a unified religion is a relatively recent historical phenomenon meant to create a state religion by linking together a bunch of random folklore. Traditionally people would worship their local gods and ignore the others.
I couldn't even guess who the third Buddhist slot might be. Shou, Nue, or Mamizou are all strong contenders and I can't think of anything that would give one of them a better chance than the others. And I would really like to see Seiga+Yoshika as a playable character, but Futo seems more likely.
I have basically the same thoughts as you except I wouldn't count Nue as a contender. Mamizou and Shou seem like much more solid choices, with Mamizou edging slightly higher for the plot and Shou for the lasers. I'd also like to see Seiga more than Futo, but I think the best chance of that happening is if Miko ends up with spells that summon Futo.
Post by: Maiden Synnae ミ☆ on May 02, 2013, 12:29:32 am
Well... I only know something. Making such high quality frames/sprites isn't an easy task, even for Tasofro.
Not only that, but the full release will be really soon. I don't think they'll have enough time to make so many characters, and the game must already be complete, or really close to that by this point anyway.
So... I have a feeling it'll be around 7 ~ 9 characters total (that counting the new girl) I doubt there will be any more than that... my expectations are simply not so big.
I could say: Reimu, Marisa, Ichirin, Shou, Byakuren, Futo, Miko, Someone Else (maybe from the Moriya trio), Silhouette Girl.
Post by: TheTeff007 on May 02, 2013, 12:36:11 am
I am really sure that Nyan Nyan will show up as playable. The potential moveset that she has with yoshika could be promising,
Quote from: Magic Magica ~★ on May 02, 2013, 12:29:32 am
Ten characters is already very low for a fighting game, but seven would be unheard of, wouldn't it? I don't mind trying to reign in my expectations based on the difficulty of the task, but I'd be a little disappointed if there were that few.
Well... they can always release extra patches later adding more characters. Like what they did with Meiling on IaMP.
Post by: Imosa on May 02, 2013, 12:47:37 am
Alright, I've been working really hard to try and figure out how to explain this, so lets see how I did. First of all, lets suppose that your right and everyone in the real world has a deep personality, and Gensokyo is similar to the real world in this manner. That would be a statement about how much information a population contains; however, that's not our problem. Our problem is about how best to convey the information about that population in a story.
I'm not saying it doesn't make sense for Mystia to have a back story, and unique traits. That is part of making a 3 dimensional character and 3 dimensional characters are good. However, when Mystia was introduced she was playing an important roll for the universe. She was a run-of-the-mill character, showing that not everyone in Gensokyo is special, and establishing a norm for the world. More specifically she was serving this same purpose for Night Sparrows who are supposed to be common (I think). However, when Mystia was given the food cart business and the punk rock bit, she became a unique character and stopped becoming a representative of the norm in Gensokyo, and the Night Sparrows. Again, this isn't a problem for Mystia. Instead it's a problem for the world ZUN is trying to establish because it has lost a mechanism which was establishing the setting for use readers, and that is bad story telling.
What I think ZUN should be doing, if he wants to characterize people in this universe, he needs to make sure to maintain a base of unimportant, "normal" characters so that Genskyo remains a feasible place to exist, and I mean unimportant in all cases, not just unimportant in how Mystia is unimportant in the context of Imperishable Night.
While I agree she will represent Shinto, due to her title, I don't think she'll do it because she wants to. I get the impression that she hates all the religions, even her own. All she wants to do is keep the peace and then enjoy that peace.
That chain of logic doesn't work. Sprites/frames have to be created for a lot of characters be they new or old.
Also, with all this talk about who can and can't be in this game, are we just excluding the possibility that characters can be taken out of the background, and just because they appear in the backgrounds doesn't mean they can't be playable characters.
Quote from: Imosa on May 02, 2013, 12:47:37 am
And when did I say they doesn't need to create frames for old characters? I wonder what made you interpret my post this way.
I'm saying she will be the only new character in the game because there won't be enough time to make multiple frames for a lot of characters, regardless if they are new or old.
Well yeah, of course.
Agreed. I haven't been putting a ton of stock in the background characters for that reason. Seems pretty simple to remove them from the background, and mirror matches and Sanae vs. Suwako matches were never a problem for the other games. Not to mention any inconsistencies could be explained by Mamizou and Nue floating around mimicing people from the audience to troll them. :D
I don't think it matters because none of the people in the background are people I'd expect to show up as playable anyway.
On the other hand, if such a system is in place they'd have to have made it after they created the most recent demo, because none of the three playable characters ever appear in the background, even in their own stages. And while I guess it not impossible to imagine that they're supposed to show up in other stages we haven't seen, the idea that none of them show up in places that are most connected to them seems implausible to me.
You said, "creating sprites/frames for a lot of different characters would be too time consuming", and used that as evidence for the claim "Pretty sure the silhouette girl will be the only new character on the game".
It is entirely possible that time spent on creating exiting characters will instead be spent creating new characters. The fact that making character art takes time doesn't have any impact on what the character art is of.
Also, why Mamizou? Isn't this supposed to be a religious conflict? I don't think Mamizou is religious at all, she just lives in the Myouren Temple, right? Same thing with Nue, although to a lesser extent since I think she wants to be religious. I would not be surprised if Suwako wasn't in the game. She is supposed to be a passive god, right?
This actually seems reasonable to me. I feel like if there were stuff going on at the Hakurei shrine, Reimu would like to be there lest we have a repeat of what happened durring the last fighting game.
Mamizou and Nue may not be religious, but they do seem to have a relationship with Byakuren so it seems plausible that they would agree to fight with her. Nue probably more than Mamizou, but I wouldn't be shocked to see either. If Suwako appears I think she'll most likely be a background character and/or an attack for Sanae.
Reimu is piling sandbags just offscreen. She doesn't have time to watch, she's preparing for the worst.
So... you think there will be more new characters apart from that one girl?
Alright, then you may stick with this idea, while I'll keep sticking to mine that she will be the only new one. It doesn't matter how much you try, you won't be able to change my opinion. By contrast, I won't try to change your opinion neither. Just don't try to force your ideas on the others.
And besides, I said pretty sure, not 100% sure.
Nice. I think I want to see Tenshi at some point.
@Magic Magica ~★: No, I have no idea about new characters.
Post by: Aya Reiko on May 02, 2013, 02:46:08 am
My guesses for the remaining roster...
Sanae (Kami)
--Sanae's stage: Kanako. Suwako, Hina. Aki sisters, Nitori, Utsuho
Youmu (Kami)
--Youmu 's stage: Yuyuko and 5-6 others at random
Koishi (Buddist)
--Koishi's stage: Satori, Kogasa, Shou, Byakuren, Akyu
Futo (Taoist)
-- Futo's stage: Miko, Tojiko, plus about 3-5 others seemingly thrown in at random
Kasen (? ? ? ?)
-- Kasen's stage: Komachi, Eiki, Yuuka, plus about 3-5 others seemingly thrown in at random
Seiga (Taoist)
-- Seiga's stage: Kyouko, Mystia, Yoshika, Yamame, Rin, and maybe a couple others
For at total of 9 returning characters. Add a boss and that's a roster of 10.
Quote from: Aya Reiko on May 02, 2013, 02:46:08 am
Okay, I guess Koishi was invited to the temple so maybe she's on the Buddhist side, but how exactly is Youmu at all aligned with Shinto? That just seems kind of random. If I had to throw her into one of the categories, I think Buddhist would be the obvious choice because of her spellcard theme where she talks about the different realms of Bhuddist cosmology and stuff.
Post by: LadyScarlet on May 02, 2013, 03:38:17 am
Imma hijack your template to add a few other possible characters:
Hatate: (? ? ? ?)
-- Hatate's stage: Aya, Momiji, Nitori, Sanae, Kanako, Suwako (I think Reimu will be the sole Shinto representative, but I could be wrong)
Shou (Buddhist)
-- Shou's stage: Alice, maybe Yuka, 4-5 others at random
Byakuren (Buddhist)
-- Byakuren's stage: Shinki? Otherwise, none; it's the inner depths of Makai! What do you expect?
Miko (Taoist)
-- Miko's stage: Tojiko, some divine spirits
Yes, I put some of your background characters in here. If Byakuren and Miko are not playable in the full version, I will be SUPER disappointed in Tasofro. I say Hatate is more likely to appear than Aya because she debuted recently and REALLY needs the screentime; Aya does not.
I don't think ZUN really cares about Hatate though. By his own admission he just forgot to give her a profile in SoPM. I wouldn't really expect to see Aya either though. Maybe this is obvious from how I'm acting, but I'm expecting a fairly small cast almost entirely pulled from MoF, UFO and TD. I'm kind of imagining it as IaMP using those 3 games instead of just EoSD and PCB.
Other characters who are less related might be added in patches or expansions though.
Well, people forget things. Besides, all that beer has to give Zun some memory loss. *flame shield up*
In addition, I think Hatate has more potential than simply being a bland, personality-less character only made to add another playable character in Double Spoiler. And since she was absent from SoPM, this is the perfect time to exploit some of that potential.
Post by: Polaris on May 02, 2013, 03:52:37 am
For the record, Byakuren and Miko are pretty much explicitly stated in the prologue for the game (alongside Reimu) so it's safe to assume they'll be showing up.
My guess for the roster is: Reimu, Marisa, Sanae, Ichirin, Byakuren, Seiga, Miko, two new characters.
I figure they can add one more character to make it a round ten, but I can't think of any plot-relevant characters, so maybe someone less central to the religion storyline like Koishi or Kogasa. It would be nice to add Koishi to have someone representing the underground, I guess.
Quote from: Polaris on May 02, 2013, 03:52:37 am
SHOU. FUTO. Why didn't you think of them? They're just as important as their bosses, and neither appear in the background!
Oh, and obligitory Hatate.
Byakuren and Miko seem to be more active than their stage-5-boss counterparts, so it seems more like they'll get the spotlight over Shou or Futo. It's possible that they'll all show up, but I personally don't think that they'll really fit in. Also, Shou and Futo could probably appear in the backgrounds of Byakuren and Miko, respectively, so ::)
Post by: Tiamat on May 02, 2013, 04:17:37 am
The thing about Shou and Futo is that they appear in the prologue. Although I would definately NOT take that as a sure thing (or even a "probable" thing, really), it does IMHO increases their chances a little, at least.
Actually, I was debating changing that to Kami/Buddhist after I posted that. Half or so cards point toward the Kami side, the other half towards the Buddhist side.
Others? Youmu and Yuyuko don't have any friends except Yukari, and isn't she busy hanging around Reimu's stage? Youmu's stage will be Yuyuko eating popcorn and barely paying attention and a bunch of ghosts. :D Poor Youmu.
Kasen probably has pretty reasonable odds. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see her. A fighting game would actually be a cool place to debut a character from outside of the games in game form. Maybe Rinnosuke will be playable and will throw Gameboys at people.
Uh... which ones are Shinto? Looking at her list, I don't think any would qualify. Keep in mind that there are Buddhist gods too, so just having the word "god" in there doesn't mean much.
I would agree that Byakuren and Miko seem more prominent than any of their followers, especially in contrast with older servant characters like Sakuya and Youmu. On the other hand, Shou shoots lots of lasers. Just from a gameplay perspective she seems fun to play. Not sure how much weight the designers would give that though. The fact that Ichirin was already included lowers the odds of any other non-Byakuren Buddhist though.
Futo seems like a really good background character, honestly.
commandercool: Actually, I'd argue that Kasen's chances of appearing are rather slim, because I don't see her showing up with a main part until her story in Wild and Horned Hermit is finished, and that still has several more chapters to go.
Oh, fair enough. I'm pretty far behind on it and I guess I thought it was recently done. It would be kind of weird to have her appear on a game before all of the story about her is out. Maybe if we get a Hisoutensoku-style expansion pack she'll feature heavily in that.
Post by: Starxsword on May 02, 2013, 08:33:27 am
Kasen is most likely a real hermit. There is nothing that stops an Oni from being a hermit.
Again, this isn't a problem for Mystia. Instead it's a problem for the world ZUN is trying to establish because it has lost a mechanism which was establishing the setting for use readers, and that is bad story telling.
I disagree. Why you would think every night sparrow is the same as each other. Wouldn't that be bad world building? There is no such thing as "generic" characters, they are only generic when you do not expand on them.
Hatate's stage: Aya, Momiji, Nitori, Sanae, Kanako, Suwako (I think Reimu will be the sole Shinto representative, but I could be wrong)
Considering the story line, I would be utterly surprised if Reimu is the sole representative of Shinto.
I think Youmu has good odds of being in Hopeless Masquerade.
For Youmu's stage, I would think Yuyuko and the Prismriver sisters are there.
Also, since Akyuu is not seen in the human village, she may be a playable character. Unlike Kosuzu, Akyuu is not a new character, so it is very strange that she did not appear in the human village.
Post by: Vyrien on May 02, 2013, 09:06:03 am
Quote from: Starxsword on May 02, 2013, 08:33:27 am
http://puu.sh/2Lhya.jpg/
Quote from: Vyrien on May 02, 2013, 09:06:03 am
Suika isn't psychic. She doesn't know what's going on other than what she's observed just now.
Post by: Limian on May 02, 2013, 10:25:36 am
The Prismrivers are already featured in the Palanquin stage.
It's probably safe to say that ZUN had this game in mind when he made SoPM, so Kanako, Byakuren and Miko are very likely choices. Given ZUN's love for stage 5 bosses, Sanae, Shou and Futo are also pretty safe bets (especially Sanae, she was the most likely candidate from the beginning IMO!). I don't quite understand why you people say that they are anything less than "probable", considering ZUN has set them up to BE likely choices. This leaves us at 3 Shintoists, 3 Buddhists and 2 Taoists, so another Taoist will probably be added to balance the cast out. With Marisa and the new girl, that's 11 characters.
IaMP's cast don't really matter here because it already included all the relevant characters out of an existing cast of ~20 (discounting IN because IaMP is set before it). If IaMP picked 10 characters out of 10 candidates, why can't HM pick maybe 14 characters out of 14 candidates?
Post by: Validon98 on May 02, 2013, 10:37:44 am
Well, the way I read that page, I assumed Kasen is not an actual hermit. It's not that she's most likely an Oni (I know Onis can be hermits), it's just the way Suika said that that made me think, "Wait a minute, Kasen's not really a hermit?!" The implication is there.
Quote from: Limian on May 02, 2013, 10:25:36 am
Given ZUN's love for stage 5 bosses, Sanae, Shou and Futo are also pretty safe bets (especially Sanae, she was the most likely candidate from the beginning IMO!).
I'm not sure he loves stage 5 bosses anymore. While early on there was obviously the trend of having them become protagonists in future games, that pattern seems to have stopped around SA. Utsuho got into 12.3 instead of Orin, and while we haven't actually seen anything definitive yet, both Shou and Futo seem to have diminished importance relative to the rest of the cast, especially the stage 4 boss. Actually, you can even go backwards and apply that to SA. Satori was the head of the household, and in some sense it could be considered her fault for not supervising Utsuho properly (not entirely her fault, of course). In UFO Minamitsu was the one who decided to go free Byakuren, and convinced Shou to participate. And, you know, captain of the flying boat. And of course in TD Seiga is the one who taught all the others Taoism and suggested the plan they tried to use to conquer Japan. While they may not fit the traditional archetype of "trusted servant", these stage 4 bosses kind of stole the show from the stage 5 bosses who have reduced importance to the plotline of their games.
Which is a long way of saying that I wouldn't be too surprised if Futo and/or Shou got skipped over. It's not really as guaranteed as it used to be.
Youmu's SC names are almost nothing but Buddhist references. She belongs to the heaven/hell system anyway, not the Shinto system.
Time to drop in a last minute speculation: the character's pose also reminds me of the dance of Central Asia nomads. This, plus her puffy skirt/trousers, and her seemingly rather complicated shoe design, could indicate a Central Asian motif.
Reimu seems to sigh and grudgingly engage in incident-solving for the sake of maintaining the harmony, yes.
That she hates all religions including her own, don't think so. She might moan about the tasks of a shrine maiden, but I think it might be a stretch to say this is her hating her own faith.
Post by: cuc on May 02, 2013, 01:45:00 pm
A Japanese Touhou fan made a video series where he visits Ise for the places where HM's lore may come from.
http://sp.nicovideo.jp/mylist/36518400
Post by: Kirin no Sora on May 02, 2013, 01:48:11 pm
...and as much as I don't want to derail the whole thing, I'll start by saying that I realize that ZUN makes these games for himself, not for the fans. That means that he will put in what ever he feels that he wants to put into it into the game.
If we wanted a different roster or something of a sort, well... (shrugs)
Anyways, I'm saying that it don't matter what we want in the end. ZUN will make it the way he wants, and we'll love it no matter what.
It's not really about what we want, is it? I figured it was something like a guessing game where we try to figure out how ZUN and Tasofro think.
Post by: Ikari on May 02, 2013, 07:16:53 pm
I used to be super excited about the game coming out to, well, *play it*, but now I think I'm looking forward to seeing the character roster so that the matter will be settled and that the random conjectures will stop. :V To be honest, though, whining aside, I REALLY want to see who will be in the game so I can see their lovely sprites, new attacks, awesome Last Words, ear-tingling themes and interesting backgrounds.
Speaking of which, I gotta give whoever thought of the Last Word idea a heartfelt thanks. The other fighting games had arguably badass techniques that felt like "Big Great Attacks", but nothing too official. (Marisa and her endless amounts of level 5 sparks come to mind) Hopeless Masquerade adds some really awesome "final" techniques, what's with cut-ins, and general "Holy shit" feeling. I'm actually excited to see what others will get, aside from "Cool Mikos Don't Look At Explosions", "Marisa Can't Drive Properly" and "Cloud-Dad Will Punch Your Soul Out".
And I pray for a Seiga x Yoshika tag-team. That'd be a new thing among the Touhou fighting games, and would absolutely adorable. Think of the opening or finishing poses. THINK.
As for myself, I'm excited to see the roster too, especially to see how close to reality my predictions are going to be.
But what I'm the most excited about is the new girl. This Silhouette is intriguing not only me, but quite a number of people as well.
Post by: Imosa on May 02, 2013, 08:23:02 pm
Alright, so I've had some more conversations about this and I see how Mystia's characterization don't stop her from being a world building character. We as readers can identify her eccentricities, subtract them and take what remains as more representative of her species as a whole. However, this leaves me with a new dilema, if Mystia does stuff like selling grilled lamprey and playing in a punk rock band then what to other Night Sparrows do? Is she just unnaturally proactive, while everyone else is lazy.
I suppose, this sort of relates back to my original point about her not being a world building character. When she became 3D it sort of raised the bar for other members of her species.
One species that I think ZUN is doing right, are the kappa. Nitori is the only kappa that we know. Some facts we know: she is curious about humans and she is an engineer. However, we've also seen kappa be active as a race, such as in WaHH, and we know that they are all engineers, and we even saw a few more examples of them. Nitori isn't extraordinary as a kappa but that doesn't stop her from being an interesting character and the fact that we know that Nitori isn't the only engineer kappa stops her from being out of place in Gensokyo.
Yeah, hate was too strong a word there.
The Tengu have a similar characterization. Both Aya and Momiji represents castes in their society, and as soon as Aya started to become more characterized as unusual we got another crow Tengu thrown in to give us some contrast.
I think the difference between Kappa/Tengu and Night Sparrows though is that there isn't a large population of Night Sparrows. They don't have a society or a culture to represent. They're just individual youkai working on their own, defined primarily by their gimmick of night-blindess through singing. What Mystia represents isn't "what Night Sparrows are" but "how ordinary low-level youkai have adapted their natures into a more harmless thing". In her case, she still uses her singing to attract people and make them blind, but instead of eating them she sells them food or concert tickets. For reference, in the same book where Mystia's lamprey stand was revealed Wriggle had an article about her starting her own business too, although that one failed. Mystia and Wriggle are lumped together as "low level youkai".
However, this leaves me with a new dilema, if Mystia does stuff like selling grilled lamprey and playing in a punk rock band then what to other Night Sparrows do? Is she just unnaturally proactive, while everyone else is lazy.
Well, we only know a bit of what Night Sparrows do. We know that they can make pretty good Sake, as seen in the 3 fairies manga. What we do get from Mystia's introductions is that Night Sparrows exist, but not exactly what they do. What we got, at least what I got, from the 3 fairies manga is that Night Sparrows make sake. Mystia is special in the sense that she has a food cart and joins a punk rock band.
@Kasen: I'll just have to disagree that Kasen isn't a Hermit (Sennin). Komachi is around her a bit too much for her to be just another person/oni.
Yeah, I forgot all about that.
Given ZUN's love for stage 5 bosses, Sanae, Shou and Futo are also pretty safe bets (especially Sanae, she was the most likely candidate from the beginning IMO!). I don't quite understand why you people say that they are anything less than "probable", considering ZUN has set them up to BE likely choices. This leaves us at 3 Shintoists, 3 Buddhists and 2 Taoists, so another Taoist will probably be added to balance the cast out. With Marisa and the new girl, that's 11 characters.
The trend back then is that Stage 5 human bosses get to be in a normal shooter game. Orin, Futo and Shou are not human, so they may or may not appear. That said, I do believe their odds of appearing in Hopeless Masquerade are pretty high.
Youmu, while in no specific faction, I suspect would be a playable character. She would be a Buddhist, but not with the Buddhist faction, like Ichirin, Byakuren, Shou, etc.
I thought about that, but then I realized that perhaps Komachi doesn't know any better. It's merely a theory, and a crazy one at that, but it's very possible Kasen might be tricking even the shinigami. That's... kind of crazy (that or Komachi knows but is letting it slide because she's, well, Komachi).
First, the important news: a new "rev2" version of the demo has been released. You can find it at Tasofro's site, or wait for a mirror. It features various bugfixes, code improvements (including net code) and small tweaks.
Most importantly:
The Windows XP problems should have been eliminated;
there are now 3 levels of graphic details instead of 2;
the full screen resolution options have been changed;
in the manual.txt file, the "recommended specs" (which was unchanged from the previous demo, so it still said "Intel Core2Duo") has been changed to "estimated specs", with system memory changed to "2GB and above", and an added note: "not guaranteed to be able to run the game". :V
the type of your deck is now displayed during the game play.
In speculation news, from my friend:
Two more candidates of the new character: Yamatohime, the high priestess who was said to have founded the Ise Shrine, and Empress Jingu, a warrior queen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yamatohime-no-mikoto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empress_Jingu
Both are figures whose historicity are highly debated. Some say they are fictional; some say they are the same person; some say either one of them is Himiko, the priestess queen recorded in Chinese history.
Interestingly, this year is also the time of Ise Shrine's rebuilding ceremony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ise_Grand_Shrine#Rebuilding_the_Shrine) (the shrine is rebuilt every 20 years).
Gameplay has again been tweaked. Increasing popularity has become even easier. There may be new bugs.
The player icons are now put in a new folder separate from "Profile", called "御首頂戴帳". This is a rather complex pun to explain...
頂戴 originally means "receive sth. by putting both hands above one's head", which is of course the highest level of etiquette. It has become a polite word for "receive" in everyday language.
御首 is a polite word for "head". Apparently 御首頂戴 - "please graciously give me your head/I'll graciously take your head" is a real expression, and I may have heard of it. Other than anime and games, who would say that kind of thing in real life, a samurai to his opponent in a duel?
The customers' book in a restaraunt is often called 御意見頂戴帳, "book of graciously receiving your opinion". So 御首頂戴帳 is "book of graciously receiving your head".
U2 Akiyama (musician at Tasofro) has tweeted (https://twitter.com/u2aki), the idea behind the name is that when you play other people online, their icons will also be saved in this directory, so you can use them too.
In his example, the alignment / deck type is 無 "none" (neutral), and the icon is 職 "job", so they combine into 無職 "unemployed".
Post by: Quwanti on May 03, 2013, 03:05:33 pm
Ah, so in fact your own made icon is actually visible for the other player! That's nice. Was wondering about that when I saw a video on nicovideo of someone making his own icon for the game.
And the CPU have definitely been improved.
Post by: Ciel on May 03, 2013, 04:35:42 pm
Sorry if this is old, but has anyone taken a look at the official cover yet? It's just released!
(http://i.imgur.com/Pc1jVfP.jpg)
http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/
It looks like some kind of spirit... or is it related to plants?
Quote from: Ciel on May 03, 2013, 04:35:42 pm
Yeah, we started talking about this here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14013.msg968378.html#msg968378).
Pretty much everyone here agrees it's Mima.
Post by: Vyrien on May 03, 2013, 04:58:14 pm
I don't see how it couldn't be Mima.
^ Yuki Mori was being sarcastic.
EDIT: Oh, sorry... Thought you said "I don't see how it could be Mima."
No sweat :V
Roster aside...
How will the story be told?
* IMaP/Soku style where the story told is based on the character selected?
* SWR style where each character has a piece of the story (of which may or may not be true)?
* Or will it be something like what DOA and MK are doing and have the story told via as a singular narrative divided up by character-focused chapters?
* Or something else altogether?
Post by: Kafuu on May 04, 2013, 02:01:14 am
Finally It's playable!
Post by: Agent of the BSoD on May 04, 2013, 02:48:51 am
Well I can see the character portraits correctly in the selection screen now. Matches are still laggy however. I fall under those recommended specs (not the i7 version) so that's easily the reason. Computer needs a new computer.
Post by: Formless God on May 04, 2013, 06:27:15 am
Computer needs a new computer
mind=blown
Game runs like butter on my quad core.
So, is it still just the three (Reimu, Marisa, Ichirin) who are playable in the new demo?
Also, although this is purely wishful thinking on my part, I would like to see Sakuya and some of the others that have been in the fighting games be in this one, even if they aren't directly involved in the "battle for faith" thing, just to fill out the roster(and to see what kind of coolness their cards will come out as, especially their Last Words). :)
Sakuya's already in the game.
<_<
Post by: Zork787 on May 04, 2013, 04:00:25 pm
Well I just downloaded the new Web Demo Revision and it seems that they colour coded the 3 Religions, Shinto is Green, Taoism is Blue and Buddhism is Red. Also Reimu and Ichirin's theme's have been reverted back to the versions that were used in the original Demo. that's all I can see so far.
As for the AI, so far I've noticed that the AI doesn't seem to guard as much and is a bit more aggressive than before, at least that's what it felt like at any rate.
Another thing I noticed is in between your SP Bar and icon it now shows either a Shinto (神), Taoism (道) or Buddhism (仏) icon to represent what kind of deck your using and it now says MAX when your popularity reaches 100% and -100%.
also ahve a handy dandy screenshot of Marisa doing Sungrazer :V
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/7417/th1352013050417240065.png)
Also don't ask about the text for Sungrazer, I think it might be because I haven't set my PC's Locale to Japan yet since I reformatted.
Post by: LadyScarlet on May 04, 2013, 04:50:36 pm
Hey, Marisa has a new lifebar portraits! Now THAT'S Marisa! :D
Downloading the new demo right now. Dammit Tasofro, y u always upload on such sloooooow websites!? DX
Quote from: LadyScarlet on May 04, 2013, 04:50:36 pm
Although her character select screen portrait hasn't been changed sadly, she's still all "srs bsns" :(
Yes. Same goes for Reimu (now having coloured eyelashes too). Main portraits in the select screen will probably be replaced in the full version.
I just downloaded the no-longer-recent demo finally. Had some trouble keybinding with Japanese menus so I didn't spend too much time with it, but enough to know that the sprites look as good as everyone says and I really like the new system so far. High expectations.
I'm tempted to preorder the full version on Akiba-Hobby, but I'm on a strict budget. D8
Post by: monhan on May 05, 2013, 04:13:19 am
Quote from: LadyScarlet on May 05, 2013, 01:45:36 am
Which shop can ship overseas? I'm planning on buying it but I don't think Tora no Ana can ship this all the way to Indonesia, or can they? This is my first time doing online shopping so I'm quite clueless here. Any help would be appreciated.
Quote from: monhan on May 05, 2013, 04:13:19 am
I ordered a Patchouli keychain from Akiba-Hobby, so I know they ship overseas. I've also ordered my copies of EoSD and PCB from JBox, so I can assume they ship overseas, too. Paletweb ships overseas, but I don't have an opinion because I've never ordered from them before. I heard others had good experiences, though.
There's also this. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,566.0.html)
Post by: Zakari on May 05, 2013, 06:18:29 pm
Hakurei Shrine, Palanquin Ship, Human Village.
then what are the other stages? can you expect what does the new official character`s stage look like?
Since the game's title says "Eastern Tower of Heart Fabric", I'm guess we are going to get a new location similar to the yumedono...
Post by: CyberAngel on May 05, 2013, 07:47:13 pm
I'm actually intrigued to see the Taoists' stage. I don't think it'll be Senkai, since it's a "secret hermit world" and all, or Great Mausoleum, since it has no purpose anymore. Not that I'll be disappointed if either appears :]
Quote from: Zakari on May 05, 2013, 06:18:29 pm
Palanquin Ship
Not the Palanquin Ship though... right?
How does this logic work? Is the youmedono anything like a town? It's a mausoleum, right?
Post by: Agent of the BSoD on May 05, 2013, 07:51:36 pm
Wonder if they're going to make the final boss's stage not be usable / preferred in (real) tourneys like they did with IaMP and SWR. (IaMP because you can't tell where you're standing on the whole play area, and SWR because it's way too bright)
Fake edit (because you guys are too fast): Playing in the Great Mausoleum would actually be really cool, especially with their 3D backgrounds.
Quote from: Agent of the BSoD on May 05, 2013, 07:51:36 pm
I think the Great Mausoleum will be Miko's stage. The technicolor 3D would be really cool, though, just like you said.
Byakuren's stage will be the Myouren temple for sure.
If someone from the Moriya trio is present as a playable character, then I'd say Moriya Shrine, along with the divine lake as her stage. The possibilities are high.
Places I'd like to see in awesome HD graphics, even though I know none will be present:
Garden of the Sun
Muenzuka
Bamboo forest of the lost
Eientei's Interior
Scarlet Devil Mansion
Hakugyokurou
The waterfall of nine heavens
Former Capital
Palace of the Earth Spirits
Remains of Blazing Hell
Genbu Ravine
Pandæmonium
I was thinking Byakuren's stage could be the inner depths of Makai and Shou's stage could be the outer layer or the Myouren Temple. I know that'll never happen, though.
I don't think Byakuren has a real reason to go back to Makai, or appear there for that matter. But sure, why not.
At least it's better than having two characters in the same stage (Myouren Temple).
I'm not sure about that. At the end of UFO, the Palanquin ship became Myouren Temple, and In HM, somehow the temple is back being the Palanquin ship.
I got nothing. :V
Post by: Yaffyfan on May 06, 2013, 01:23:52 pm
They really need to make the AI better:
(Warning, sound may be sort of loud, sorry)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbOc-Bv-99A
Quote from: Yaffyfan on May 06, 2013, 01:23:52 pm
The new update made the AI better, They still don't use any skill or spells, though (at least not against me).
Quote from: Quwanti on May 06, 2013, 02:39:29 pm
Unless if there's been a very recent patch, that's the current version of the AI. There was actually a patch that fixed some problems with netplay, but it didn't seem to have anything to do with the AI at all.
The day you uploaded that video, a new update was released. Check it out.
Are your bones ready?
i hope there will be more than 12 characters playable.
A lot of fighting games have 8 playable chars + an unlockable final boss (in this case, it'll be the silhouette girl). Astra Superstars (the game 13.5 is based on, is one example) so... as for myself, I suppose this will be applied to 13.5 as well.
I think this is a good number to start already. If they want to expand the roster, then they can make additional patches later. Something the additional patches could do is removing relevant characters from the stages' background (such as Nue or Murasa) and making them playable characters. But that's just my idea.
Personally, I don't quite think that just by having them in the Background automatically disregards them from being Playable.
For Example, in Ougon Musou Kyoku, several, if not all of the playable characters (with the exception of possibly B. Battler) appear in one or two stages as BG. If you select them, the are not there however.
Maybe the same will happen to HM....
Quote from: Drizzly Magician on May 06, 2013, 12:46:22 pm
the Palanquin ship became Myouren Temple, and In HM, somehow the temple is back being the Palanquin ship.
Or that could be a different ship.
As was pointed out previously in this thread, if such a system were to be in place, that would mean that Reimu could appear at the Hakurei Shrine if Marisa and Ichirin was fighting. I even think she'd want to be present if a fight were going on at her shrine. However, she isn't.
This doesn't rule out the possibility to of background characters being removed from stages when fights are going on in that stage. Maybe the feature has yet to be added. However, it puts pressure on the idea.
I don't keep up with fighting games but I do know about this feature from Ougon Musou Kyoku. The question I have is if this is a normal feature in fighting games these days? I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement but if its standard in fighting games then the developers would look like slackers if they didn't include it.
Also, a thought that I'm not sure has been brought up yet. These fights can be determined by how much you please the crowd, right? That's a rather interesting setting for an evil plot to be going on. Like, what if popularity were a feature in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody, who in the crowd would back Tenshi? It makes me think as though big bad, will have to be a little more deceptive. Perhaps she will (do I dare say) masquerade as something a little popular so that she has a chance at winning fights.
Something else: Does ZUN consult anyone on the english names. Is it worth our time trying to think about what a Hopeless Masquerade would be like and how that might be depicted in the story?
Quote from: Imosa on May 06, 2013, 08:02:00 pm
Consult? You're asking if the guy who names things "Imperishable Night", "Subterranean Animism" and "Perfect Memento in Strict Sense" runs things by an English speaker? Maybe this is just me, but his use of English seems to be very well thought out yet at the same time very unnatural. I can just imagine him poring over of a dictionary for the perfect word that matches the meaning he wants... but then he ends up with "imperishable" instead of "immortal" or "undying" and makes me think of canned foods. "Suwa Foughten Field" sounds kind of weird for a modern English speaker, but the phrase "foughten field" was pretty popular in the 19th century as a poetic way of saying "battlefield".
Anyway, I guess my point is that ZUN definitely had something in mind when he chose that name, and his English is well thought out and not chosen arbitrarily at all, so you can definitely try to read something into it. However, that meaning may not be obvious or intuitive.
The question I have is if this is a normal feature in fighting games these days?
I can see you haven't played many fighting games, but no. It's not a normal feature at all. Most of the fighters doesn't feature playable characters on the background, let alone taking them out from it if you're playing as them.
Post by: KrackoCloud on May 06, 2013, 09:29:52 pm
Maybe this is just me, but his use of English seems to be very well thought out yet at the same time very unnatural. I can just imagine him poring over of a dictionary for the perfect word that matches the meaning he wants... but then he ends up with "imperishable" instead of "immortal" or "undying" and makes me think of canned foods.
This is good.
Well, in that case, we could describe the Masquerade as Hopeless in which case I think the following will happen: Our big bad is trying to be devious with their evil plan but everyone knows about it and uses it as an excuse to have this religious war. When big bad finally reveals herself everyone will be like "Yeah, that was never going to work from the beginning. You were about as successful as anyone else though, so your consolation prize is a fair fight.". Fair fight concludes and then it's drinks all around to induct a new member to the touhou pantheon.
That kinda makes me think that the feature will not be included, cool as it may be.
IIRC wasn't the whole Hopeless Masquerade title supposed to be a bit of a jab at U.S. and/or Japanese politics? :V
Also I think 'Imperishable' is supposed to translate as something like 'Neverending' but whether by choice or accident ZUN gave us the delightfully demi-Engrish result we now know and love.
I think it's supposed to be a pun, referring to both the everlasting night and the immortal characters (Eirin, Kaguya, Mokou) who are the subject of the plot. Both the immortal night and the night of the immortals. Which is really kind of clever. The problem being the hidden connotations of "imperishable" in English. I mean, if you look it up in a dictionary, the word itself is technically appropriate, it just sounds like an odd thing to say.
Post by: iK on May 07, 2013, 04:51:32 am
I never saw any problems with the English subtitles, barring missing "the"s. How does "Imperishable Night" sound awkward in the slightest?
Post by: Tsalop on May 07, 2013, 07:15:39 am
After reading too much tv tropes, I am now convinced that Satsuki Rin will finally make an appearance as the member of Taoist faction....
Quote from: Tsalop on May 07, 2013, 07:15:39 am
That would be really cool. Why do you think that?
With no basis at all:
Quote from: TvTropes
Contrived Coincidence: Wild Mass Guessing spawned from Rin Satsuki has either seemingly manifested in another game, or was too good to be true. Among a few of them are how the Japanese fandom believed she was a Taoist, due to her carrying an erhu, and being assumed a Qilin (sometimes romanized as "Kirin", which supports the romanization of her name, Satsuki Rin), which is primarily represented as a Chinese deity excelling in healing. Cue Imperishable Night and Ten Desires, with their focus on a nurse (HELP ME, EIRIN!) and Taoism, respectively, and her popularity has reignited.
Quote from: iK on May 07, 2013, 04:51:32 am
Imperishable Night isn't awkward. But in terms of English problems, "DOUBLE SPOIER" springs to mind.
His English is likely much better than my Japanese though so I'm not bothered!
Post by: Shin Rokuren on May 07, 2013, 02:12:55 pm
As far as I know, the only fighting game that comes to mind with that feature is Tekken 5 with Lee Chaolan appearing in the background of the pool stage and not present when you select him. I do hope that some background chars, like Nazrin, would be playable.
Street Fighter IV, Marvel vs. Capcom 3, and Mortal Kombat 9 also do this background thing.
However, the issue with this game is that characters like Sakuya, Remilia, and Yukari have little importance to the plot of this game, and it seems obvious that this game's plot decides the roster. Unless the aforementioned characters can contribute something to the religion issue, they have no reason to participate in the fights.
Quote from: game2011 on May 07, 2013, 04:03:54 pm
it seems obvious that this game's plot decides the roster.
Hence why I was saying... the extra patches could take the RELEVANT characters out of the background.
There's no reason for someone such as Sunny Milk or Lunasa Prismriver to become playable.
Which characters are relevant though? None of the ones seen in the background so far seem relevant, except maybe Yukari if you work under the assumption that she's involved in everything.
Post by: Tiamat on May 07, 2013, 09:36:59 pm
Even Yukari seems kinda like she wouldn'nt want to get directly involved in this sort of thing. Her win quotes in Hosoutensoku seem to imply to me that she finds Suwako and her schemes rather... distasteful, and I wouldn't be surprised if she was a bit turned off by this whole faith pissing contest in general (not turned off enough to pass up some fun oportunities to spectate some pretty matches, though)
I guess you could consider Nazrin and Murasa relevant? But I'm sure HM will have way more than enough UFO and TD characters, already.
Well, there is in the entire Myouren crowd. I kinda wanted to play as Murasa.
Again, the entire Myouren crowd could be relevant but I'm willing to drop that issue. The bigger issue is that playable characters that should be in the backgrounds aren't there when they should be. Should we expect to see Ichirin, Byakuren, or Shou on the ship? Should we expect to see Reimu, or Marisa at the Hakurei Shrine? If the answer to either of these two questions is yes then the feature has already failed. I for one would like to see Reimu at the shrine.
It's possible they simply haven't gotten that feauture of adding and removing background characters depending on who's fighting added yet. When the original gameplay preview of HM was released (but not the actual trial), the background was entirely empty. They didn't add background characters at all until later, so it's possible the background in the trial version is still incomplete.
....I wouldnt' hold your breath over it, though.
Well, they've got 20 days to add it, so they'd better get cracking.
Really? What about Murasa then?
She was the one that unsealed Byakuren, and probably the one that loves her the most out of the whole Myouren crew. Of course she'd want to help Byakuren spread Buddhism.
The same could be applied to any other of her underlings. Byakuren is seen as their savior after all.
Did you forget the part where Minamitsu is possibly a mass-murderer and definitely ignores the teachings of Buddhism? She loves Byakuren, sure, but she's like the worst Buddhist in the gang. Also one of the main reasons people are still distrustful of the temple. She doesn't care about the religion at all. Contrast Shou, who's their main faith-gatherer. Even Mamizou is closer to a wild card.
That said, Ichirin got in and I wouldn't have expected that, but the fact that she did merely makes it less likely for Minamitsu to have a place.
Sure, that's convincing enough.
Well... but as for Shou, it's extremely unlikely she won't be playable. Mainly for 3 reasons:
1) She appears on the intro.
2) Doesn't appear on any stage background.
3) Is the main faith-gatherer of the crew, as you have pointed out.
I'm sorry, that makes no sense. Shouldn't that mean she's more likely TO be playable? I mean, the full version isn't even out yet; the background characters do not at all determine the final roster.
Quote from: Tiamat on May 07, 2013, 11:43:14 pm
Yeah, it seems to me like it's something a little integral to making the backgrounds.
I don't see how 1 and 2 are relevant here.
2 in particular (since it's what we're talking about here), if having someone in the background doesn't lower their chances of being a playable characters, then surely having someone not be in the background doesn't raise their chances of being a playable character.
I'm sorry, that makes no sense. Shouldn't that mean she's more likely TO be playable?
There's a double negative there.
BTW, does anyone remember when Tasofro started the roster reveal for SWR compared to the release of the game?
Personally I think it makes sense for the developers to intentionally choose background characters so that they don't overlap with the main cast, since the whole background-altering thing would be a hassle. Besides, it's not like they have a limited cast of characters to choose from for the background.
From the 3 stages seen so far, I would hazard a guess that background characters are not playable. Of course, the inverse would be true, if a character is not in the background in places where they are expected to be, then they may be playable.
It is possible that the final boss is one of the background characters, but who knows. That girl behind Rinnosuke looks suspicious...
Post by: Frog on May 08, 2013, 08:42:00 am
Just a little something nobodies brought up, that imo is a little relevant to the whole background characters argument.
Those background characters can be seen from the stage select menu, im sure that might change with the final release and all but i thought it was food for thought.. or something.
Anyway, personally i'm expecting a roster of about 8 characters, possibly less but i highly doubt more.
I can only imagine a lot of work has to go into making the characters, even moreso if they don't share stages, so the idea that they made another 10 or so in the last half a year seems a little unreasonable to me.
Quote from: Frog on May 08, 2013, 08:42:00 am
They don't have to have made them all in the past half year. There's no reason to believe that only Reimu, Marisa and Ichirin were in a playable state when the demo was first released. I mean, why would they give everything away in the demo? The demo for SWR only had 4 characters even though they were reusing the sprites from IaMP.
That said, I agree that the cast will be small, although I set my estimate of the limit at 10. Which matches how many characters IaMP started with. Although I guess that depends on how much more work the new sprites are. They're certainly higher resolution.
Is the eight character estimate including the boss? I imagine it'd be 8 characters AND the boss (who of course will also be playable) and maybe a mid-boss, for a total of 10 characters. Assuming this wasn't what various people meant, already.
Hmm... that leaves room for 3 Myourens (Byakuren, Ichirin, Shou?), 3 Taoists (Miko, Futo?, Seiga + Yoshika? If only because the only other one is Tojiko), Reimu, and Marisa. And Sanae too, since Kanako and Suwako need representation. Guess that's 9, then. And the boss, who's probably a new character (probably).
I wouldn't expect a midboss. SWR had one, but it also heavily reused IaMP's sprites and other than the new characters only had 3 additions to the cast (Aya, Reisen, Komachi). For a total of 5.
A Seiga+Yoshika character could be really cool. In fact, I think it would be a massively missed opportunity if they didn't do it.
That's definitely my secret dream, but I don't want to jinx it.
Post by: _cf on May 08, 2013, 10:33:04 pm
Lets see who else will be playable, in order of probability (the more probable first):
1) Byakuren, Miko and Sanae (these I'm about 100% sure that will be in)
2) Shou, Futo, Kanako, Seiga (Kanako, as SoPM should have the same chance of Byakuren and Miko, but I'm put off by her not appearing in the starting scroll. Still, I'd give everybody at this tier about 80% of chance to appear)
3) Youmu, Mamizou, anybody from SA, Kasen (this is the "we had enough time to add extra characters" tier)
4) everybody else (at about 0% chances)
Rethinking my latest roster guesses...
My probables:
Sanae, Youmu, Koishi, Futo, Kasen, Seiga (or Seiga-Yoshika)
Sub-bosses, probably playable:
Kanako, Byakuren, Miko
The Maybes, especially if they need mooks/filler for storymode:
Meiling, Tojiko, Mystia-Kyouko, Yorihime (or Toyohime), Iku, Hatate (or Aya)
Rationale on the Maybes--
Meiling-- Chinese Girl, likely a Taoist, therefore potentially a non-Miko affiliated Taoist. And is not seen with the SDM crew at Reimu's.
Tojiko-- The only other Taoist option.
Mystia-Kyouko-- Another tag-team option with Kyouko being the one who ties them to the storyline.
Yorihime-- A Reimu if she ever bothered to train. Her connection with the Kami makes her a potential option.
Iku-- Envoy of the Dragon Palace. That could be used to tie her in.
Hatate or Aya-- Like they'll stay out of this.
I'm not sure how much it applies, but technically, Yukari was the mid-boss of IAMP (both storyline-wise and gameplay wise. The former because she's the one that drags Suika out, and the latter because she's always fought before Suika and needs to be unlocked before you can play as her). And maybe Yuyuko too, although some characters skip her in the story, unlike Yukari. I don't expect an old character to show up as the designated midboss for Hopeless Masquerade, though (Well, for some reason, I feel like Kaisen would have fit the role rather nicely, but I don't expect her to be in the game, because her manga and thus her character development is still ongoing. Thematically speaking, we the Touhou readers/fans have yet to meet the REAL Kaisen and only have been subject to her own masquerade so far. ZUN doesn't want to reveal the actual truths about Kaisen outside of the manga and I agree that'd be the better story-telling policy for an author to take).
And technically, Okuu is Soku's penultimate boss, with Suwako being final boss (see Arcade mode, and her lack of Story mode).
One thing no one has brought up is the number of named background characters.
Both Hakurei Shrine and Human Village are popular hangout spots, so it's reasonable for them to have the largest number of characters - 9 named characters, and many extras. But even the Palanquin Ship stage still has 7 named characters.
Since EoSD, there has been about 70 named characters who have appeared in gameplay. Add Daiyousei, Koakuma, Tokiko, Rinnosuke, Akyuu, Kasen, Kosuzu and the Lunar Capital characters, then you've got about 80 characters, a few of which probably won't appear in this game. Supposing each stage has on average 1 playable character + 5 background characters, that results in at most 13 stages + playable characters.
Of course, the number of named characters in a stage background can be highly variable. But given the "popularity contest" theme, it's reasonable to think that most stages should have a few cameo characters, except for maybe a special Earthbound-style "final battle in space" "you need a prayer" "the whole Gensokyo is watching" kind of stage.
Quote from: cuc on May 09, 2013, 01:54:10 am
Seriously, is it? Why can't there just be multiple flying ships?
Doesn't the wiki states that the Myouren Temple can turn back and forth into the Palanquin ship whenever Byakuren needs it to? I can't recall if that was canon in UFO, since I haven't played it for quite some time ago...
Plus it would make some bit of sense as a method of gathering followers.
"Check this Buddhist business out we got flying ships yo."
It's Buddhist magic. Don't question it.
Besides, who wouldn't want a flying ship?
On a more serious note, since the head of the three religions is likely to be playable, I'm curious about how they'll fight.
Byakuren-- She'll either be magic-oriented or melee-oriented, or a mix of both. Since Buddhist is aligned with close combat in the faith chart, I guess they'll make her lean toward the latter. Besides, who would past the chance for a Kung Fu/Martial Artist Byakuren? And so, Tasofro, I demand a Jesus Beam. You know you want to.
But the problem is whether they'll make her an expert or not since as far as I know, ZUN never mention that. I want her to be a skilled and powerful fighter(which would complement her ability) though since we already got Ichirin to fill the other role.
Kanako-- This is a good chance to see what her ability to create the sky really do when utilized in battle. I'm also curious whether they'll have her as a rushdown or a zoner. With how Shinto works, I guess it's safe to say that we'll get an homing Onbashira to the face.
Miko-- I'm not so sure with her. Her ability doesn't seem to be applicable in combat, except maybe using it to read the opponents moves, giving her a counter skill. Quite unlikely though since it's stated that hers is kinda different.
It would also be nice if she'll use her sword too, in case Youmu didn't make it in. There's also the fact that she has superhuman abilities, though it should be noted that it isn't explicitly stated what it is. So she doesn't necessarily have to possess superhuman strength like Byakuren, maybe other things like super senses(her hearing is one) or something, which might still give her the counter capability if she can't mind read. There's also the matter of whether she's a skilled fighter or not. Personally, I would prefer her to be the speedster, a tactical one.
As for the others that might be in, Shou might actually use her spear since really, you don't need skill to swing a stick and she has the strength to compensate for that. Coupled up with the jeweled pagoda, imminent "Hello, curvy lasers. Why do you hate me so?"
Futo would make a nice substitute for Komachi to ram people with boat. Add in her arson tendency and other Taoist? artifact and we're gold.
I really want a playable Seiga, be it with Yoshika or not. She'll probably be the gimmick/weird character.
I'm really excited to see how they'll do it because the way they fight will surely give some impact to their character, be it for better or worse.
Also, it's a bit late but thank you Yuki Mori for the info! I have preordered the game and now I'll just wait warmly.
Byakuren's specialty is described as body-improving magic, so honestly I see her as a more of a brute-force superhuman than a martial artist. Akyuu describes her as having fists harder than steel and an invincible body. More Superman than Bruce Lee. Lots of of superarmor and simple but strong attacks. On the other hand, she might have super-reflexes and all that too.
Her ability to "create sky" is really a lot more symbolic than anything. The Taoist word used doesn't really mean "sky" so much as "heaven" and is associated with initiative and activeness and whatnot. I think it describes her personality more than her powers, which makes sense since "abilities are self-reported". Her divine powers are probably way more versatile than that. She's a storm god, but also a mountain god, and also a god of technology. I'd imagine she has a mishmash of abilities like Suwako did in Hisoutensoku.
Well, obviously she has access to Taoist magic. Which... probably isn't much different from regular magic, but obviously she can shoot bullets and whatnot. I can't really think of anything in particular, but a counterattack-based sword user makes sense to me. For the record, her sword is sort of legendary on its own, and technically she is a sword in the sense that that's how her shikaisen process worked, so it makes sense for her to be sword focused.
Dual wielding spear and pagoda. But yeah, while SoPM says she's not skilled with her spear, it'd be a waste not to use is as her melee attack. Even if she specializes in lasers.
^ In the very least, she can flail the spear in reckless and comedic ways.
Shou will use her spear, I imagine, because Komachi used her Scythe despite how that scythe isn't meant to be a combat scythe. So there's precedence for using it, skilled combat or not, I guess.
Post by: Gpop on May 09, 2013, 05:11:43 pm
You know what actually? The info on Byakuren using magic to give her superhuman strength actually makes me think if she'll play like an aerial version for Iron Fist with his MvC3 move list. More specifically, his power up specials.
Quote from: Gpop on May 09, 2013, 05:11:43 pm
Superman in Injustice: Gods Among Us may be a good visual aid of how she may fight.
Of course she will use it. Like Youmu used her Sword, or Komachi used her Scythe. Even Reimu and Marisa used their Gohei and Broom respectively to smack the enemies.
The best one is Patchouli smacking you with her book.
Post by: Sagus on May 09, 2013, 10:27:59 pm
Although the scythe of the shinigami are said to not be used as weapons, it's never said that Komachi doesn't know how to use it as such; Shou, on the other hand, is explicitly stated to not be a martial artist, and that she uses the spear only as a walking stick.
Of course, that doesn't stop the possibility of her melee attacks being her waving that thing around in a hilariously incompetent yet still dangerous way.
She will use it guys, there's no doubt. I can even see Byakuren using her scroll as a sort of whip or something.
By the way, it'd be funny seeing Suwako throwing her hat as weapon Kung-Lao style :V
I can even see Byakuren using her scroll as a sort of whip or something.
Well, that's how she uses it in Genius of Sappheiros, and I don't know how else you would whack someone on the head with that thing.
/me implying the usage of Byakuren's scrolls in a fangame is CLEARLY how they will be used in a canon game.
@Shou's spear: I imagine she will use her spear like how Patchouli uses her books. Close her eyes and stab straight ahead or something and hope for the best.
I'm so hype I could die.
I wish for a Seiga x Yoshika team so hard; It would be adorable and great. I wonder how it would work. I'm personally hoping for a Carl Clover-like Seiga, but a P4 Arena Seiga is fine too. I wonder if her last word will be a sneaky Jiang-Shi bite from behind...?
Shou using her spear is pretty much a definite yes, and I'm not sure if she'll wave it with her eyes closed, but holy crap that would be adorable. I'm squeeing every time someone mentions it.
I'm also really hype for the 26th. We'll get two awesome games, even though one of them will be just a demo.
I'd like to see Seiga and Yoshika on the game as well. The former has better chances since she is affiliated with Taoism. I'd imagine her fighting solo but using Yoshika as a striker. Or Carl Clover style as you said... either way would work.
Or possibly Melty Blood maids style where both of them are on the screen and can assist each-other, but you can tag which one you control back and forth. If Seiga is in the game I predict a Persona-like mechanic where her heavy melee and heavy projectile call Yoshika onto the screen to attack, but there are lots of ways they could go with it.
Maybe I'm just taking the word "heavy" too literally, but shouldn't that be switched for the projectiles? Yoshika shoots waves of weak kunai, while Seiga shoots large homing lightning orbs. Seiga's shots feel "heavier" to me. Unless they decide to completely ignore what they do in TD.
Yeah, whatever. Doesn't really matter. But if you give a character an attack that requires another character to pop onscreen to work it will probably have more frames than a regular attack to give time for that to happen. You could have it go either way by compensating density for quantity to make either one the "heavier" attack.
Post by: Kosachi on May 11, 2013, 03:14:55 am
Why do I picture the duo working like the old Jojo fighter? Seiga just flies around, then when Yoshika starts doing damage, she flies in to lay on even more hurt. That would imply that our control is focused on Yoshika and not on Seiga, but hey, who knows? :P
Touhou 14 is announced, but the discussion here shouldn't stop. The same Japanese fan who pointed out about Ise-katagami has some fun theories.
http://www.nebuta.or.jp/archive/ogata/h23/ryoyukai.html
First of all, unlikely to have anything to do with HM's real story, here's a cool painting of a samurai general (Tamuramaro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakanoue_no_Tamuramaro)) with 7 divine-gifted oni masks hovering around him.
About the new character, he thinks she's based on Hata no Kawakatsu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hata_no_Kawakatsu), who according to legend:
- may have come from China, claimed to be a descendant of the First Emperor of Qin;
- brought kagura into Japan;
- was favored by Shoutoku, and made masks for Shoutoku;
- was ancestor to the masters of noh theatre, including the greatest noh artist, Zeami (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeami_Motokiyo);
- when people began worshipping a new god (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B8%B8%E4%B8%96%E7%A5%9E) (which is in fact just a type of small worm), he suppressed this new religion;
- according to Zeami's book, he became a sennin (hermit), and is an avatar of Bishamoten who helped Shoutoku (the current wikipedia entry wrote his title as a god wrong, it should be 大荒大明神);
- Toriyama Sekien, that artist who loved inventing new youkai (you should really be familiar with this name by now), drew this image of Kawakatsu's mask becoming a mask youkai (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%9D%A2%E9%9C%8A%E6%B0%97);
- was believed by a 20th century crazy man to be from a lost tribe of Israel.
Also, his name is mentioned by Cirno (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Fairy_Wars/Story/Extra) in FW.
OK, that's a whole lot of fun.
Heh, I thought you meant he was actually mentioned in Fairy Wars.
Post by: Zakari on May 12, 2013, 02:23:51 am
Mentioned in GFW? is this another Prophecy?
i sense Christianity and Zionism on TH15 or whataver.
>i sense Christianity and Zionism on TH15 or whataver.
Well, if anyone wants to seriously pursue that line of thought, the highest difficulty in UFO is called "For the Lost Race - For people who insist they are chosen ones." HM is probably conceived at the same time as UFO, you know lol. :yuuka:
The game has gone gold (the release version is completed; a master disc has been sent to factory for manufacturing).
Unaba tweeted (1 (http://[url=https://twitter.com/unabara/status/334194327414796288), 2 (http://)):
The journey of HM's master disc has begun.
U2 Akiyama has updated (http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/tasoblo.cgi?no=67) the Tasofro blog:
Touhou Shinkirou has gone gold. Someone will probably make a proper homepage the day after tomorrow. As for tomorrow, we'll all be sleeping.
I haven't played the story mode much. I can play it now at last! Great!
Also posted is a screenshot for the story mode screen.
A hasty translation of the screenshot text:
The usually quiet humans and the always energetic youkai, they all seem very excited.
They are all so excited, because the shrine maiden will be dueling her rivals.
Win this fight, and solidify your popularity!
(Yes, even this text box is vertically aligned. The English translation patch won't happen too soon.)
just decided to check the HM site and a 2nd revision of the Demo was released yesterday it seems, and I recommend this (http://mirror.tsundere.ne.jp/mirrorinfo/dojin/consumer/tasofro/TouhouShinkirou-trial2_mod.html) mirror as it seems to have a rather fast download speed
Edit: nevermind, read the date on the site wrong :V
Quote from: Zork787 on May 14, 2013, 07:08:21 pm
Time to make another Reimu video about possible changes :V (if any)
You can see a really small icon of Miko in the left bottom corner. Well, at least I assume it is Miko. Also, Reimu now also has dem colored eyelashes.
That second revision has been up since May 3. The 13 in that date is the year.
Well i dun derped :V
though I cant see Miko in that screenshot, must just be you
Found a mirror of demo REV2 at last from a poster on the Doujin Style forum (thank you).
http://www.mediafire.com/?sceowapys0c472k
Post by: crotchpuncha on May 15, 2013, 12:31:19 am
The Demo runs at about half speed for me, this happen for anyone else?
It's probably the high resolution being too much for my PC.
Post by: Lukesky180 on May 15, 2013, 12:37:29 am
Quote from: cuc on May 14, 2013, 01:58:00 pm
>The English translation patch won't happen too soon.
>won't happen too soon.
>won't happen.
Crap.
Although all other news aside, I'm very excited for the release of this game, and also the demo of 14. I hope to go exploring around the full HM game once I get my grubby hands on it.
I wonder when they will show the roster since the game is done already. The hype is lost since the announcement of DDC so I'm hoping we'll get it soon.
As for the translation patch, I don't really need it but I guess it will take some time since they have to change the dialog bubble too. But frankly, I don't think it would take that long, so there's no need to worry about it.
I sure hope what you say is right as well.
A member of the fighting game translation group said they won't do the HM patch.
Gensokyo.org said they won't do the patch.
Well that was quick. So i guess we won't see the patch anytime soon.
No sweat, though. I'm sure the translation will be up within a few days.
Post by: Amraphenson on May 15, 2013, 07:18:17 am
If gensokyo.org doesn't really want to do it, and I know the FGC doesn't particularly feel encouraged to do it either, then I'd be skeptical about any translations happening with any sort of haste, though I'd be happy to see a translation of plot.
Quote from: Amra on May 15, 2013, 07:18:17 am
I don't think you'd have to worry about that. I'm pretty sure that the translation for the plot and most of the main stuff will be done in no time, like what we've been doing here.
Which one is that? The first one(sold on C83)? The web trial with crappy AI? Or the web revision with fixed AI?
The sizes are different.
colored eyelashes
weed every day at tasofro corp.
Noooo... Is there some sort of article or forum post you could link me to?
Post by: Mayson on May 15, 2013, 01:12:53 pm
Did someone just say no... No English patch? IMPOSSIBRUUU! D:
Quote from: Lukesky180 on May 15, 2013, 11:58:59 am
It's from some posts on the Something Awful forum, currently inaccessible to non-members. I had to google to find a copy of those posts... on someone's Tumblr.
http://s-p-q-r.tumblr.com/post/49718588663/translating-eosd
The posts are mostly about the history of the earliest Touhou English translation patches: PCB, EoSD and IN. HM was mentioned at the end.
You may want to set aside half an hour to read through it.
>Mirror of demo
Um, I thought the "REV2" part should make it clear enough this is the newest demo.
>Roster
Unabara tweeted (https://twitter.com/unabara/status/334398391708704768) today:
From now on the characters' pages will be updated one after another. Enjoy.
Also, according to his blog post, he has been pretty healthy until now; the moment the game went gold, his cold worsened. :yuuka:
Unabara's 0 AM trolling:
Unabara: My job is to answer questions like "is ~ in the game" with whether the character is playable or on the background.
Someone: Is Mamizou in?!!!!! She's in, right?!!!!!
Unabara: She lives forever in your heart.
Someone: Ahhhhh!!!!!!
So be patient, wait for them to reveal the PCs at their own pace.
Post by: Sanger Zonvolt on May 15, 2013, 05:01:46 pm
Finally played the new version of 13.5, holy shit Rinnosuke in a canon a game. :o
Also lots of human dudes at that.
Post by: monhan on May 15, 2013, 05:27:43 pm
I figured as much. It is no easy task to crack those things. But they didn't like HM? Wonder what makes them hate it. I actually find it having almost totally new mechanics to be rather neat and I'm interested on how the story will go.
At least the translation will still come, I might even do it when I got the game.
Unabara's 0 AM trolling:So be patient, wait for them to reveal the PCs at their own pace.
So is it the demo from 3 May, with the fixed AI? I'm not really sure since the size is different.
Sweet! It's gonna be hard to concentrate on my work for this week.
Post by: Lukesky180 on May 15, 2013, 09:31:30 pm
Thank you so much. It's a shame to see the patching efforts come to a slowdown and that Hopeless Masqueradr will not be touched here, but I understand why now.
Anyways, still hyped up about the two games. End of May, COME ALREADY.
When Unabara says "character pages will be updated", where exactly are these pages? On the Hopeless Masquerade official site?
Post by: Sparen on May 16, 2013, 01:02:54 am
Well, we'll find out soon enough, won't we?
And yeah. If the encryption gets too hard, it'll also be extremely hard to see the cutins from the games separate from the game itself. And... no English patch means that we'll be turning to the translators~
Of course they'll update the site.
>encryption and cut-ins
As a matter of fact, HM's encryption is not difficult. For example, I've posted a pic dump made by unknown parties of the first demo in January. All the difficulty comes from the vertical text.
Besides, supposing the game data can't be decrypted, you can always use the TexMod tool to extract its graphics from memory. Someone in this thread has done exactly that last month.
I'm wondering... is there a way to display English vertically but still keep it readable AND fit in all the info?
I think there might be localized 16-bit games that displayed small amount of English text vertically, by using a faux-Japanese caligraphy or a handwritten font where each English letter has the same width as a kanji. And scanlations had to do it from time to time. HM would have a lot more text with some long words, however.
A proposal: someone make a translation mockup of that screenshot, using a heavily italicized font with thin lines, to test what can be achieved.
(http://oi41.tinypic.com/s16red.jpg)
I gave it a quick try and as you can see, it's horrible. I used Swis721 Lt BT font, size 16, standard on the left and italicized on the right.
Using thick letters or bolding them only make it worse, also it's hard to notice the ' in those 's. If you want it to be right to left then then it can be reversed.
It didn't finish all the way since it reached the word cap, but this is more of a technical issue on my side, really.
Maybe we should use other fonts?
I don't know if it's possible but I think it's better to change the size of the bubble. That bubble pic that you posted, maybe we can change it to a wider one so we can have horizontal texts. This will probably cause some issues, like the bubble stacking on other things, but we should be able to find a way around that.
Woah, vertical text in English is hard to read.
Post by: Quwanti on May 16, 2013, 10:10:05 am
Vertical texts could work for single words, but whole sentences just looks awful.
Dunno if it'll make it any better, but how about writing in all caps for vertical texts? Sure it'll look aesthetically bad but I suppose it'd still be good if easier to read.
Post by: Despatche on May 16, 2013, 10:15:08 am
Vertical text is weird. I think there are certain fonts made for it. Otherwise, you could try 90cw; it might be "inaccurate", but this is a high-effort translation.
(http://oi42.tinypic.com/6pxgjt.jpg)
I'm not really sure with this.... What do you guys think?
All caps with italics is by far the easiest to read when compared with the other examples, but it's still lacking a bit. Mmm. Will try thinking of something but I think we're getting closer to a solution.
Quote from: Despatche on May 16, 2013, 10:15:08 am
(http://oi44.tinypic.com/29w5yjq.jpg)
I don't think there's a point in having it like this unless you don't mind straining your neck. Have some rainbow while I'm at it.
This looks really good, and you don't really have to strain your neck. For me, it's easily readable without doing so. I think that this would work best, because the vertical english is much harder to read. Anyways, thanks for the effort, all!
I can also read the cw text better. I would not mind seeing this in a game.
It sure beats understanding nothing by a mile. :3
I say, beggars can't be choosers. It's not like we pay anything for the translation.
Well the truth is, if you can hack the program to display variable text width (which I think Mauve did with the Soku patch) like in monhan's mockup, you may as well try making the program display horizontal text. I don't think there'll ever be a need to change the balloon sizes.
Post by: Tsalop on May 16, 2013, 01:09:23 pm
Update to the HM-page (http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/index.html#130516)...
Page now contains Reimus, Marisas and Ichirins profiles.
So not a new character to start with, hmm.. Well, hopefully tomorrow.
Post by: Sungho on May 16, 2013, 03:38:51 pm
I look forward to the various Touhou music arrangements.
And the way Tasogare Frontier handles the story mode.
Wonder what kinds of special abilities other characters will have.
Short question.
Is Marisa's special ability a homage to anything else?
I don't know if its gameplay mechanic references any game (seems too generic to be a specific homage), but I figured out its name reference soon after the first demo. It's "Third Time Embellisher" or even "Third Offense Embellisher", referencing Al Gore's "serial embellisher" nickname. (The "third time" part could be a reference to US felony law's "third strike" rule.)
Reimu's ability name: "Law of Universal Spirit Power" (referencing "law of universal gravity").
Ichirin's: "The Quiet Rage".
Post by: Star King on May 16, 2013, 04:03:23 pm
I'm calling Sanae to be announced next. Come at me.
Post by: G_H on May 16, 2013, 04:06:42 pm
Hi guys. Don't mind me, I'm nobody. Just got something small to say.
This may be a silly remark. Maybe down to the level of outright stupidity. But I figure I might as well ask it. Has anyone considered quite simply contacting Tasogare Frontier about making an English translation?
You see, they're only people, just like you and me, who'd like to get their work out there. Now if it comes to their attention that the fan base here in the west is very serious about these things, AND it were to be offered to them to provide a high quality translation, perhaps they might show interest in assisting in the creation of a patch. Frontier Aja, creators of the Koumajou Densetsu series, even provided an English and French translation, and they're a doujin circle too.
I figure this would be the path of least resistance. Anyone doing black hat hacks will confirm that trying to get something via people is usually the first thing you should try before going the hard route of delving into the machine nightmares called compiled code.
Super hasty translation of backstories:
Reimu: same as screenshot.
The village is in a festive mood.
However, hidden in the festival, is a scent of decadence and transience.
This is a scent favored by religious leaders who consider seizing human hearts their calling.
She decided to strike first, and increase her own companions before the religious leaders do it.
(Whoa, "increase her own companions? She never needed them before. Marisa is a zombie now?)
The abbess of Myouren Temple is out on a mission said to be important to humans.
Ichirin, who is still in training, is left to guard the temple.
However, the situation has changed.
Challengers have shown up at Myouren Temple.
Huh, I thought people will find it weird to have to read the text like that.
I meant that if we want to have horizontal text, we need to change the orientation, else the text will be too crowded since the width is too small. I don't really understand how it works so any better solution is good.
Quote from: Tsalop on May 16, 2013, 01:09:23 pm
She's likely to be in, but I honestly can't wait till they confirm Byakuren. Kanako is second on my wish-list.
However, as much as I'm dying to see her, it would be nice if they introduce someone from the Taoist faction first. Hope it will be added tomorrow.
Post by: Savory on May 16, 2013, 05:06:23 pm
I am so glad they fixed Ichirin's arm...
Quote from: G_H on May 16, 2013, 04:06:42 pm
Seconding this. Figure it's at least worth asking, right?
Also good point about Frontier Aja.
She has to secure the harem route, before religious zealots deny polygamy...
Um, guys...
(http://i.imgur.com/bCCxPN4.jpg)
I found this when I ran a Google search for "Touhou 13.5" pics, so I saved it on imgur to show to you guys and ask if this is real or fake or something...
Quote from: Kirin no Sora on May 16, 2013, 07:24:08 pm
This wasn't among officially released screenshots. Okuu's portrait is from Hisoutensoku too, so most likely fake.
Hmmm... Thanks for the quick response, C. Angel.
Still, the Okuu character sprite in the pic does look nice, yes?
Yeah. We can still hope, though.
I have mixed feelings on the roster after seeing Ichirin's backstory. Anything can happen.
Yay! Marisa's smiling in her portrait!
Post by: AJS on May 16, 2013, 09:16:01 pm
It's not at all a strain to quickly turn my head to read it. Reading the vertical text was an absolute eye-sore. If anything, I'd prefer this to no translation at all.
Has anyone considered quite simply contacting Tasogare Frontier about making an English translation?
I say it's worth a shot. I mean, the worst that can happen is they'll say no.
Post by: Zil on May 16, 2013, 09:21:44 pm
And what again is the problem with doing it horizontally?
Quote from: Zil on May 16, 2013, 09:21:44 pm
Mostly the technical issues of HOW to do so without possibly wrecking some of the original formatting/aesthetic, I think.
@G_H: While that's not a bad idea I expect this might butt heads with ZUN's apathy toward the western audience. If nothing else, I'd say it was an odd choice to make a decision that would make translations so difficult.
I always thought it was more unawareness/cluelessness about the Western audience than outright not caring.
I mean, hey, he's coming to AWA later this year, remember? :V
Personally, I would much prefer to read a column of letters than tilt my head 90° to read dialogue.
But mostly I think cuc's right - if you can get this far, you might as well go all the way.
I dunno, maybe a little bit of both. Yeah he's coming to AWA but that would also require him to be aware of his audience.
Also, who here is actually tilting their head to read that? I'm actually just reading it on its side.
I wonder how feasible a column of letters that slants from left to right as you descend down the word would be. That vertical typeset job is only difficult to read because lining up all the letters makes it feel like they're all bleeding into each other.
Like I said, I am actually tilting my head to read that. You see, the letters are rotated 90° to the right. So to read them better, I in turn tilt my head 90° to the right. HTH.
Post by: Prime32 on May 16, 2013, 10:39:05 pm
Try replacing the spaces with " · ".
Wow, I can't really read that well. This English patch is going to be a doozy to make, isn't it?
You know, with the one that has straight columns of letters, what if there were more spacing between them? I get the feeling that would break up the bleeding effect.
Quoting the relevant bits about difficulty of hacking HM:
SWR was far worse than that. As best I understand, mauve wound up rewriting most or all of the code for the deckbuilding screen, plus some of the internal graphics engine, and then went to work on the game's main loop before things got too over my head to follow. And it STILL doesn't work quite right.
HM is even worse than that. The deckbuilding screen is back, with even more complexity, there are more finicky interface elements, and the entire game is coated in layers of heavy duty, better than 99% of commercial games, why would anyone even DO this encryption. And that's just the demo! Who knows what the full game and story mode are going to bring?
The encryption in particular is really absurd and totally unnecessary, to the point where we think it actually is targeted at us meddling fans.
Post by: Tengukami on May 17, 2013, 12:34:22 am
Holy crap. Glad I'm not a big fan of fighting games.
Post by: KrackoCloud on May 17, 2013, 12:48:57 am
Can we just like
have subtitles or something?
But the Japanese will still be there.
Actually, that's not a bad idea. The only thing would someone would have to create a new function to print a new type of text box simultaneously with the existing one. That could still be problematic.
Quote from: Validon98 on May 17, 2013, 12:54:55 am
Agreed. I think that's really confusing, although I would be curious to see how it would turn out.
Could perhaps just remove the speech bubbles entirely and go straight subtitle?
Quote from: crotchpuncha on May 17, 2013, 01:31:09 am
Now that's something I'm curious to see the results of. Seems interesting, can we do that?
Post by: G_H on May 17, 2013, 02:09:58 am
Quote from: HawFlakes on May 17, 2013, 12:48:57 am
I was thinking the same thing. Up to my neck in disassemblers here, trying to figure out where th135.pak is being accessed and hoping that we'd be able to rip out the routines that read the data so it can be dumped to a bin file. But this is way out of my league.
However, AGTH works on it. As long as you run through AppLocale (or set your locale to Japanese), AGTH will extract text. There are some minor issues... Characters seem to drop out and some are doubled, but if you compare with what you see on-screen, with a bit of manual work you can extract the text. Now, AGTH isn't open source so I'm not sure how it works its magic, but ITH does have source available. And it might provide some inspiration.
So I was thinking about the following:
1) Code something that performs DLL injection in the style of ITH, intercepting text routine calls.
2) Extract printed text and perform some sort of pattern matching that figures out what part of the game is being shown (spell card descriptions, dialogue, menu...)
3) Show translation on overlay with text and location dependent on the results of step 2.
Obviously there's a lot of technical details to work out. If gobs of text are being loaded into memory before being shown, it might be hard to detect what's exacty active or not. Easy enough for stuff like dialogue; you could intercept keyboard presses and DirectInput/XInput (disassembly seemed to show both DInput and XInput) calls to make the subs progress along with the dialogue. But for stuff like the spell card screen it might get hairier.
So what would be needed is a way to hook into text routine calls, for which ITH can provide good tutelage. The matching of text and translation is trivially easy. Then there'd be the challenge of showing subs at the proper size and location, windowed and full-screen. Anyone got any idea how that could be accomplished? Disassembly shows includes of d3dx9_43.dll.
I have no clue if we can do that, but I personally believe that it would look a little odd to have subtitles in a game that was made for speech bubbles. Think about it, character A and character B would just awkwardly float there starring at each other with nothing happening on the screen while the subs roll. I find that would make the story scenes a tad too uneventful, but that's just me.
I'm glad I don't care about the in-game translations. If I want to read something, I can just go to touhou wiki instead and check the translated dialogue from there. The only thing I want with HM is play it.
So long as the menu and skill cards are translated, I'd honestly be fine with no dialogue transcription for a while.
Post by: AnonymousPondScum on May 17, 2013, 04:05:20 am
Seconding this. I'd like to know what I'm doing when remapping buttons. :getdown:
Menus are easy, being simple PNGs.
Skill names are also easy to do with a simple quick 'n dirty text replacing, but most text may have to be shortened in order to fit in.
Making a HM patch with basic functions is not hard. The hard part is to make it good.
Her facial expression, especially the eyes, don't match with the other playable characters. Everyone's cheerful-looking, but she's very evil-looking...
In the past two fighting games, you can tell that everyone has similar-looking facial expressions, even if they don't look cheerful, so there's no reason to give Utsuho a facial expression that doesn't have the same style as other characters here.
Of course, one may argue that this game uses a different engine, so such a case may not be applied anymore. Still, I don't exactly find her sprite in that pic similar to the other confirmed characters.
As for whether or not the sprite looks nice... I think it's pretty good! But the face isn't appealing...
Post by: UTW on May 17, 2013, 04:24:57 am
Yeah I can always check Touhou Wiki for the dialogue. Not that I don't appreciate the full translation efforts from before but all that's essential to me is menus, cards, etc., and endings. If I can sacrifice translated speech for a translation of the menus at least then I will.
Quote from: Kosachi on May 17, 2013, 02:26:05 am
The speech bubbles wouldn't be removed, since that would imply hacking the game. Which is exactly what it kind of difficult. The subs could be an overlay or placed at a convenient place. I grew up watching nearly everything on TV in English with Dutch subs, you get used to it soon enough. It is that which taught me English, in fact.
The image data is in the th135.pak which, contrary to the previous fighters (where it was just a zip with a different extension) is currently incomprehensible. I don't know if it's just some proprietary format they came up with and we'd only need to identify what is stored where, or if the thing has in fact went through some obfuscation algorithm, but at any rate it's not easy to adjust.
If the pak is too difficult to reverse-engineer, and trying to use the program itself to get at its actual data isn't feasible, then using run-time hooks is the next best thing.
What I don't understand is why on earth Tasofro is making this so difficult... It's not like this is to stop piracy, because as far as I know there's no DRM or license key use. I'd say the BGM and sprite rippers, translators, patchers and netplay coders are exactly the people who've contributed to the success of the previous games and made it so that even IaMP still has a core following to this day.
Post by: FinnKaenbyou on May 17, 2013, 12:14:28 pm
Page just updated. (http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/)
Byakuren confirmed. Nice hat.
Only thing I can translate is the last word: Angirasa Veda. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiras_%28sage%29)
@G_H
Thanks for chiming in! But to tell the truth, the pack file has already been successfully reverse-engineered by the Chinese community, including repacking with new image files. I've already seen test screenshots. And as I said, I have no doubt re: the Chinese community's willingness to share the tools developed for HM.
Noooo! Whyyyy! She was perfect without hat!
Yeah, the hats a bit dumb. However, her fighting sprite doesn't seem to have it, unless its blending in really well.
Post by: Kosachi on May 17, 2013, 12:35:49 pm
The image of her using her Last Spell (http://www.tasofro.net/touhou135/img/last_04.jpg) is pretty impressive. You can also catch a glimpse of her scroll design next to her (spirit?) gauge.
EDIT: I like the hat :(
It appears she changes her eye color to purple.
Post by: Ginko on May 17, 2013, 12:40:57 pm
Why'd you use the spoiler tags for the news, isn't this the spoiler topic ? :V
Anyway, here's Byakuren's special trait :
Super-human lineage
Byakuren needs to do some spell chanting before she can use her specials.
By inputting a special command once, she will do the chanting to charge up; then by inputting it again, she will charge down and do the special.
Each special has its own charge, and so in order to use another special, you will need another chanting.
Because of the chanting, using properly the specials is hard, but to make up for that the specials themselves are powerful.
Byakuren confirmed for Brawl HM! Nice hat.
Quote from: Ginko on May 17, 2013, 12:40:57 pm
So basically, she needs to "buff up" before using specials. Interesting.
Also a screenshot from their blog.
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2909/byakren.jpg)
No playable Shou?! I hope it's just an extra appearance.
So Byakuren will have to charge attacks a la Jessica Ushiromiya from Ougon Musou Kokyu? Nice~
Really? Do you have some links for this? I'm quite interested.
And we're sure this is in fact modding work and not some more edited screenshots?
Well I suppose we'll have to wait very patiently for an English patch once the game is released.
Byakuren's mechanic seems like it could be cool.
@Quwanti: Where is their blog?
Shou appearing in the stage background... that's a real let down... like holy shit. I know, I was all over the argument that things in the background don't stop them from being in the game but... god I hope they have a feature that takes characters out of the background, because I really want to play a Shou.
>Hat
It's the kind of hat worn by itinerant monks. Byakuren was an itinerant monk a thousand years ago.
I suggest we continue this patch-related discussion in the dedicated forum.
http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14754.0.html
Where is their blog?
Here (http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/index.html).
http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/index.html
I always have been sceptic about background characters in the game, and I never expected them to be playable. But now I really hope I was wrong. :V Shou would be really cool to play.
Post by: Cadmas on May 17, 2013, 01:46:58 pm
Guess we can finally put the "Byakuren's hair isn't gradient" argument down at least.
Post by: Reddyne on May 17, 2013, 01:51:38 pm
Looks just like one of Meiling's moves. Moves like this really channel a Kenshiro vs. Shin vibe.
This definitely has a dangerous-in-the-right-hands feel to it.
Do we know for certain that having a character in the background means they won't be playable? Was there a statement about this somewhere? It seems like it wouldn't be too much trouble to just remove the background sprite if that character was a participant.
Post by: Edible on May 17, 2013, 01:56:08 pm
byakubyakubyakuren
Quote from: Reddyne on May 17, 2013, 01:51:38 pm
Look at it this way: Lambdadelta was in the background in OMK and that didn't stop her from being playable. I hope the same happens with Shou; it would be such a waste to not include her.
We don't. Removable background characters is still an option.
Quote from: Dlanor A. Knox on May 17, 2013, 01:46:58 pm
We could do that at her very first appearance, or at least since Symposium of Post-mysticism.
And it appears to be only in her portrait image, not the in-game sprite.
With Byakuren in, I'll presume Miko is almost a given and Kanako or Suwako feels highly likely too.
Quote from: Aya Reiko on May 17, 2013, 02:09:02 pm
Now there's just Shinki missing (after all she is the goddess of Makai!) D:
Acharya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acharya) who has gone beyond primates
Hijiri Byakuren
The Myouren Temple is bustling with people.
However, no one comes here with the purpose of listening to Buddha's teaching.
Morality has been discarded. The world has entered the age of decadence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Ages_of_Buddhism), where only people who show off through making a hustle are consider righteous.
Under the principle of "using power as method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upaya) [to help people find the right path]", she also jumped into the showy battles.
Last Word: Angirasa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angiras_%28sage%29) Veda
A combo attack that first knocks off the opponent with a charge, then burns her with concentrated laser irradiation.
The super fast charge can penetrate the opponent's danmaku, instantly capturing the opponent even across a long distance. With its strong pressure and disheartening high power, this can be said to be a demonstration of her superhuman abilities.
Summary of blog post:
Byakuren is the fastest at moving forward and backward. Her dash is instant (blinking).
Her danmaku range and cost is not so good. Prepare to engage in close combat.
Press skill button combinations to increase their charges, then release by pressing again. This exposes your intention to the opponent.
The skill shown in the blog screenshot is "Talon of Garuda", a flying kick with instant vertical movement.
Byakuren: I've had enough with this pacifism stuff! Time to get serious.
Sh*t just got real, gentleman.
Silly Teff. There is no such a thing as serious in Gensokyo. :getdown:
Whatever happens, it will end in a tea or flower viewing party. It simply has to.
Post by: iK on May 17, 2013, 03:22:09 pm
We're all missing something vital here.
Kogasa confirmed for not-new-cirno background status. :P
Aw, drat, Kogasa in the background. Nice to see generic human characters athte Myouren temple though. Before the human village stage came out, I thought it was odd that a game where the plot was to impress humans only had youkai in the background.
Wierd if Shou might not be playable though. I was almost sure she would be. We haven't confirmed that background characters won't be playable but up until this point, most background characters were ones that most didn't expect to be playable anyways.
HM sure seems to be adding lots of doodads to the newer characters' outfits. :P Though it does look a bit odd that she has her had in her in-game portrait next to her lifebar but not on the sprite (I like the idea of a monk hat to stress that she's a monk, personally think her iconic appearance would be changed too much with a hat on the sprite though). Also, martial arts Byakuren, while making sense, looks funny. Not the type of personality normally associated with that sort of thing :P
Those arm proportions in all the arts are really getting kinda wierd. Compared to the sprite proportions, it's almost like they're half length or missing a joint or something uncanny.
Woohoo Byakuren! She was kind of a given but I'm happy to see her announced anyway.
(just had a blast and shouted out the biggest "YES!!" in my life, with Cosmic Mind in the background)
Trying to keep it civil here ;)
I didn't expect it to be this early, but it would be a lie to say that I'm not grateful. Finally, my main has come!
And they make her a strong melee and fastest to boot! Not to mention that she seem skilled too, Kung Fu Youkai Jesus confirmed! Thank you, Tasofro!
That Nanto Gokuto Ken Claw of Garuda/Garuda's Talon...so they decided to go with Shin. I'm hoping for some Toki but this is still great! Though who knows, she might even have moves from various characters.
And yeah, boobs, a really visible one.
Post by: Malyszeq on May 17, 2013, 04:23:09 pm
I just noticed something...
http://i.imgur.com/PYAUYwO.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/PYAUYwO.jpg) - The screen from Human village
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2909/byakren.jpg (http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/2909/byakren.jpg) - and the screen from Myouren temple.
The same two girls. In pretty kimonos. I wonder if it's just a reusing of a sprite, or does that mean, that these two might ber relevant?
Now that we see Byakuren's stage, I'm intrigued by something. It's clearly Myouren Temple. On ground. And we've already seen Palanquin Ship in the sky before. So does that mean they're not one and the same after all? Or is it a different ship? Interesting.
For those who thought Ichirin was this game's melee specialist...
And damn, now I want to see a Byakuren vs. Remilia match. Two super strong and fast youkais that favor close combat...
Quote from: C.Angel on May 17, 2013, 04:31:26 pm
I think it's the same. One stage has it in the air and another has it on the ground.
At this point, either:
- They are not the same;
- They are the same, and they can switch back and forth.
Or, you can say "f**k it" and say it's magic. :V
The disappointment of Byakuren is at least partially remedied by the excited anticipation of seeing /jp/'s seething rage now that someone has appeared in a game toting a large chest.
You know, it could be that "Soaring Vault" thing, finally pieced together after UFO. Makes the most sense to me.
Quote from: Malyszeq on May 17, 2013, 04:23:09 pm
I'm thinking the former.
Or there could be multiple ships. Don't just leave that option out.
Wasn't the "Soaring Vault", the Palanquin Ship made unrecognizable by Nue or something like that?
Nue made the pieces of the soaring vault (needed to unseal Byakuren) unrecognizable using the Seed of Unknown Form. With that the heroines perceived as UFOs what were in reality the pieces of wood that composed the vault. The wiki (http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Seed_of_Unknown_Form) calls them "Fragments of Tobikura".
Post by: notext on May 17, 2013, 05:55:26 pm
I'd pretty much taken Byaku-Iron Fist as a given, but she looks pretty cool. In Shou's absence (BOO) the musclewizard might be fun.
One way or another, the whole cast of UFO plus Kyouko is in the game now. The next character reveal will definitely be from another group (or be Mamizou, and not have any of the Myouren group as her background).
Let's think about the numbers for a moment...
Two members of the Buddhist faction has been announced (and most likely there will be third one)..
If we assume that each side has equal amount of members, doesn't this mean that we have 8 - 12 playable
characters + 1-2 unlockable bosses (Of course Marisa could be the only member representing non-religious humans)?
Also this might be bit far-fetched but if we have 12 playable characters, unless there will be new ones aside from
the bosses - we might have some of the background characters appear as playable characters as well...
Post by: Aba Matindesu! on May 17, 2013, 06:07:18 pm
> Byakuren
> melee-oriented fighting style, possibly with bullets being for knockups and combos
YES. I do hope it's as intuitive as Meiling's was in Hisoutensoku. Either way, I call a new main :V
Quote from: notext on May 17, 2013, 05:55:26 pm
The next character reveal will definitely be from another group (or be Mamizou, and not have any of the Myouren group as her background).
I doubt Mamizou will be playable, since when you take FS into account, she wouldn't want to show off in front of Human Village. And that's exactly what the game's about.
Quote from: Kiglamayandango on May 17, 2013, 05:01:42 pm
Heh. Seems /jp/ so far has come to the conclusion that:
1. NO SHOU WAAAAAAAAAH
2. Mamizou must appear.
3. There will be anywhere from 5 to 15 more playable characters, based on the hilarious speculations of the great minds at /jp/.
4. EoSD a shit.
Oh hey, this thread updated, I wonder what---
playable Byakuren
:O :O
:O :O :O
OMGYAY
Post by: iori98 on May 17, 2013, 06:44:58 pm
If I'm not mistaken show wasn't a fighter and just had the spear for shou, but I could be wrong it's not like show being a pacifist was ever canon right?
Post by: Formless God on May 17, 2013, 07:06:00 pm
Quote from: Tengukami on May 17, 2013, 06:20:06 pm
/jaypee/ a good
Now brace for more Mima begging.
Do they usually update on weekends?
Byakuren's playable, whoo! Also, yes, the temple can freely switch between ship and temple form.
Say, anyone knows whether fighting game communities are interested in this game? Are there any plans to make a wiki like those for IaMP and SWR/Soku?
Yes, sad but true. And only an idiot or incredibly biased person would think there will be a "removable background characters" feature. If they're on the background, then that means they are not playable.
(http://i.imgur.com/6timv8B.jpg)
Post by: Shizzo on May 17, 2013, 07:52:15 pm
From the description it seems that Byakuren's last word's gonna be pretty easy to connect. I just hope it can be blockable or at least easy to dodge, else it'll just be a straightup improved Sungrazer.
Post by: Amraphenson on May 17, 2013, 07:59:54 pm
Quote from: Synnae ~★ on May 17, 2013, 07:36:51 pm
because fighting games have always obeyed this sort of logic, right
ssf4, aquapazza, injustice, mortal kombat come to mind
Quote from: Amra on May 17, 2013, 07:59:54 pm
Oh, I saw that coming.
Like around 90% of the fighting games lacks this feature. I don't see why it'd be different with HM just because a little games that you can count with your ten fingers have this.
Besides, if this will really be a feature. Then tell me why Ichirin doesn't appear on the Palanquin Ship's background when you're fighting Reimu x Marisa there. ;)
Well... maybe because this feature will be only added on the full version. *sighes* biased fanbase is biased.
ssf4 is a little game? huh, new information. if anything it should be the other way around; because HM is a little game that really isn't as vigorously tested (relatively) compared to the above it won't have that feature.
Post by: Von Stein on May 17, 2013, 08:20:16 pm
Look, we still don't know anything about the roster yet. Maybe it'll have a replacement easter egg system, maybe not. We have no indication either way, so stubbornly defending either position ain't gonna do squat besides raise tempers.
by little, I mean "a few" games, I never said those games are little in the sense they are minor and irrelevant.
Quote from: thefreedictionary
lit·tle (ltl)
adj. lit·tler or less (ls) also less·er (lsr), lit·tlest or least (lst)
1. Small in size: a little dining room. See Synonyms at small.
2. Short in extent or duration; brief: There is little time left.
3. Small in quantity or degree: little money.
4. Unimportant; trivial: a little matter.
5. Narrow; petty: mean little comments; a little mind consumed with trivia.
6. Without much power or influence; of minor status.
a. Being at an early stage of growth; young: a little child.
b. Younger or youngest. Used especially of a sibling: My little brother is leaving for college next week.
@Irmingard Von Stein:
I agree with you. It's just a few days before the game is released. Let's just leave this pointless argument behind and wait for the day. There's really no point and will only provoke flame wars. As for myself, I'll ignore the other posts from now on until the game is released, just to prevent raising tempers without necessity. I mean... some people take the stuff more seriously than needed.
not particularly. So far the fgc likes HM about as much or less than SWR/12.3, probably less.
I don't know anymore. I'd like Shou in this game, and it seems like a real loss on the game's part, but I just don't see this background removal feature being standard enough to reasonably predict it. Right now, the game can either let me down, or blow me away, and I just really hope it does the latter.
Quote from: Irmingard von Stein on May 17, 2013, 08:20:16 pm
That's a bad approach.
It's good to see /jp/ still knows where its bread is buttered.
Post by: Suikama on May 17, 2013, 10:09:15 pm
YOU WAAAAAAAAAH SHOU-CK
Quote from: Suikama on May 17, 2013, 10:09:15 pm
/me slowclaps
Woah. The claims about the Myouren Temple able to transform into the Palaquin Shop and back whenever needed seem to be true in this game.
Post by: shadowbringer on May 18, 2013, 02:32:38 am
Ougon Musou Kyoku also has this, adding to the games Amra mentioned. (btw Aquapazza is awesome, more people should play it but it won't happen because it's expensive and too moe for amurica)
it's not like it's too much work to add or subtract characters from backgrounds, you know. (even in the same stage, in different rounds, background characters can interact with the environment and be added/removed too. Thinking of The King of Fighters' 2002 Unlimited Match's amusement park stage thing as I write this.)
glad to see Byakuren, can expect Miko and maybe Kanako (or even Suwako and Sanae again).
iirc (forgot where I've got this information, may be inaccurate, because my memory (tm).) the palanquin ship was transformed into the myouren temple, and then a replica was made after that.
Quote from: Formless Void on May 17, 2013, 07:06:00 pm
Mima will appear as either the True Last Boss (requires the player to at least not lose any rounds during the entire game) or the Score Attack Mode's final boss. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64w0CqBNutQ) will be her theme.
Post by: Sanger Zonvolt on May 18, 2013, 04:17:53 am
Byakuren looking pretty good.
I imagine Miko is going to be revealed soon.
Post by: Star King on May 18, 2013, 05:03:34 am
OMFG BYAKUREN. Screenshot of her giving a melee beatdown was probably the greatest thing I've ever seen in my life. And dayum, that portrait. I still DESPISE those colored eyelashes (why Tasafro why) but other than that she's beautiful :3
I hope she'll be, like, not bad.
I'm guessing a new character per day 'til the game comes out. So that'll be about 9-10 characters total.
Plus the 3 already known.
Plus the Boss and (maybe) her "Dragon".
That'll bring the roster size to about 13-15 total.
Post by: Gpop on May 18, 2013, 05:17:11 am
That's a pretty decent size for a fighter, I'm satisfied with this amount.
At least 10 at the very least. Byakuren's image is called "chara_04.jpg". (Nothing yet for "chara_05.jpg".)
I think the roster will be very unsurprising.
Reimu Marisa
Byakuren Ichirin
Miko Futo
Kanako Sanae
The Masquerader
Quote from: Zakari on May 18, 2013, 06:23:07 am
Ichiricn and Marisa were a ploy? Interesting tactic.
Post by: Stuffman on May 18, 2013, 12:21:22 pm
It would be pretty interesting if we got Tojiko in place of Futo. Her danmaku theme could put together a pretty bombastic move set.
Update. Futo.
Oh, this is gonna be delicious.
Nice Boat Futo confirmed!
According to broken Google Translate Futo's gimmick involves placing dishes around the field which increase her power. And these dishes stay in place between rounds, so she gets stronger the longer the game goes on.
Also her Last Word is a sea of FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=U1oFIsEu40w#t=17s).
Title: Re: Touhou 13.5 Hopeless Masquerade. Yay!
Futo's finishing move: Surfin' Bird.
Best portrait yet
You guys almost broke their site with the traffic :V
Post by: trancehime on May 18, 2013, 12:55:57 pm
Quote from: Sango Tororetsu on May 18, 2013, 12:51:15 pm
Futo's last word is a blatant pun on Taika Reform (大火の改新 based on 大化の改新) "Reform by Great Fire"
are you sure it's just us
Her skill doesn't have a name yet, perhaps they forgot.
And I guess it's pretty clear now that Marisa is the sandbag of the game.
Post by: Bound on May 18, 2013, 01:07:03 pm
Yes, good. Arsonist Futo is best Futo. Also, is it just me, or does her hair look purple now?
Wow, she's so cute. Now I'm really hyped for Miko. And their stage.
They've just learned the meaning of "hype".
Quote from: Bound on May 18, 2013, 01:07:03 pm
is it just me, or does her hair look purple now?
That's just the shading.
Since Futo is in it's safe to assume we'll have something like this, yes?
http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/4/42/Th13SC087.jpg
Well, finding out they're revealing a character every day is making things more exciting! So, Futo, huh? Is it just me, or does she look a lot younger in the new portrait than she does in TD?
Reimu is almost one head taller than Futo. I guess that makes her look a bit younger.
Hopefully they will also put a screenshot of her on the blog.
So, what I get from the post ...
Futo's special trait : ... Nameless(yet)
Futo can strengthen her hermit powers by accomplishing a ritual where she splits the dishes set all around the field.
When her hermit powers are fully restored, various attacks become stronger.
Hermit power isn't reset between rounds, so that the longer the match is, the better situation you can set up.
Futo's Last Word: Reform by Great Fire
Futo throws fire all around the area, making the field into a sea of fire.
Futo herself isn't affected by the sea of fire; however, if the opponent comes close to it, she will lose life gradually. The more she comes close to the sea of fire, the more life she loses.
(The "sea of fire" is the bottom of the field, essentially)
I bet it'll be "Feng Shui".
That sounds kinda... feng shui-ish. Arranging furniture and what not.
New pic on the blog.
Showing the Divine Mausoleum with the three fairies, Cirno, Letty and Wriggle. I take back what I said about Marisa.
Apparently, the dish can be set with some moves and shots, but it need to hit. Also that attack in the snapshot requires the dish to be set, else nothing happen.
It does sound like feng-shui. I wonder if you have to put them down in a certain way. Although, doing that mid-combat might be... tricky.
it's just one huge akiha pit. damn.
(http://i42.tinypic.com/339q8gm.jpg)
We get a better look of the Mausoleum. Also, Medicine. :D
I wonder if you have to put them down in a certain way.
Sounds gimmicky, although I'd love to see them pull something like this off.
I don't like the idea of a character that "gets stronger as the game goes on", though.
I guess Futo plays somewhat like Alice, with all her dish placements and then using them.
Also, that skirt is just long enough to censor her panties. :V
We get a better look of the Mausoleum. Also, Medicine :D
How is this underground, again? :V
Also, where is Medicine? I don't see her...
She's under Futo's health bar.
Some of you didn't understand her special trait it seems : you don't gain power by setting the dishes but by breaking them.
- Normals and projectiles set up dishes.
- Specials break dishes, giving you more power.
Probably just a false sky created by the astronomical number of desire spirits. We got a good look at it in TD. It was just a very different colour then.
I bet the next confirmed will be another one of TD's characters. Maybe Miko.
Weird. I dunno then.
That does seem to defeat the purpose of having rounds.
Post by: Kaze_Senshi on May 18, 2013, 02:04:15 pm
" Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post." x 30
OMG I want to post here too :V
We get a better look of the Futo's thighs. Also, Medicine. :D
So Futo's stage has the 3 fairies, Cirno, Letty, Wriggle, and Medicine at least. Wait, weren't the 3 Fairies at Reimu's too?
This game is definitely taking its share of twists and turns. I'm not a big fan of fighting games, but it'll be fun to see some matches, anyway, maybe even play against the AI every now and then to try some of these hilarious moves.
Overall, though, if there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that the roster will likely drive /jp/ closer and closer to imploding under the force of its own rage, which would be to the benefit of us all.
Is Tasofro going to place all the Windows-era characters to the backgrounds?
Anyway... It is good to see Letty and Wriggle making an appearance.
This is a kinda disappointing stage because nobody fits into it. Like, who hangs out at the Mausoleum? Well fairies hang out everywhere so faeries, and, heck, Medicine, why not. It seems like these characters are thrown here for no real purpose other then to be a crowd, for which more generic character would be more appropriate. Wriggle isn't even watching the fight, and isn't Letty supposed to melt when its not winter. I just dunno.
. . . and isn't Letty supposed to melt when its not winter. I just dunno.
According to Touhou wiki Letty moves to unknown place when the spring arrives, so yeah I was surprised to see her on the background.
Hehe... Now it has been confirmed: When it is not winter, Letty hangs out at the Spirit Mausoleum...
Feng shui master who governs dragon lines
Mononobe Futo
[NOTE: Dragon line: a center concept of feng shui, the lines of energy running underneath geographic features. No way is Futo able to manipulate that.]
To save people whose heart has become desolate, Miko has begun to take action.
She says by gathering the scattered faith to herself, she will change people's decadent way of life.
For this purpose, competition with other religious leaders is unavoidable.
Hence Futo will be going about, providing her support.
This "support" involves giving aftercare to the losers...
[NOTE: "Aftercare" here seems to be a pun meaning both "care for patients during and after recovery", and "after-sales service".]
Through the "ritual" of smashing plates put on the field,
Futo can amplify her own hermit power.
With increased hermit power, various attacks will be enhanced.
The hermit power is not reset between rounds,
so the longer the fight, the more advantage she can have.
Last Word: Reform by Great Fire
[NOTE: pun on "Taika Reform"]
Putting a fire around her, turning the field into a sea of flames.
Futo herself is unaffected by the fire,
but the opponent's health will deplete gradually near the fire.
The closer they are, the more health they lose.
Summary of blog:
Set up plates with melee and shooting attacks.
Smash them with specials.
Smashing increases your stats.
There are methods for you to set up plates during your escape, or smash the plates safely. The plates can't be set if your shots can't hit the enemy.
There are pressure-inducing specials after successfully setting up multiple plates, so her play always starts with setup.
The special in the screenshot is "Water-Embracing Plates" ("water-embracing" is a feng shui terminology, referring to a river's convex bank, which has concentrated flood soil, so is good for living), causing the water in the plates around Futo to splash. It's useless if you have no plates near her.
Well, we should have in mind the overall theme here - a clash of faiths. This might be so much of an Unprecedented Serious Affair that word spreads fast, and everyone wants to see how things unravel. Or maybe they're just bored. People do all kinds of inexplicable things; shouldn't be any different for youkai (hell, inexplicable behavior might be even more natural for youkai).
This is looking more and more delicious.
Seems reasonable. Not to forget that ZUNs approach (and probably Tasofros) is to think of Gensokyo as an unreasonable place, so logic should be out of question to begin with.
Futo's special ability is here, and it's ominous.
蠱毒皿の積重 Accumulated Weight of Venom Plates
蠱: magical venomous insects bred by sorcerers inside their containers.
積重: 積重 itself is an ancient Chinese word. There's also the Japanese verb 積み重ね. "Accumulation".
Futo's ability icon: kashiwa leaves, same as the new game logo. As I said, these are sacred leaves used to wrap Shinto offerings, and became the symbol of high priests, including the Mononobe clan. Futo's roots are still in Shintoism.
蠱毒皿の積重
Accumulated Weight of Venom Plates
If I had to guess, the mention of venom and a life sapping sea of fire, I think Futo's going to be the slow but constant life drain kind of character, and said life sapping increases as the number of plates smashed goes up.
Maybe. I have this nagging feeling that this entire religious conflict is just some thing everyone started because they were bored. There's some investment by the more zealous people but by and large it's just a thing. Everyone is also watching simply because they are bored. Then, at some point in the mix here, they'll take care of the big bad in like two stages of real plot, and then go right back to being bored.
Quote from: Mayson on May 18, 2013, 02:25:29 pm
Doing things because one is bored, isn't unreasonable. These characters do have motivations.
Woah, Letty and Wriggle still exists? Nice to see them around.
You know, the stage looks strangely similar to Giant Toad's Pond, Aya's stage in PoFV (played it just now). It's possible the Mausoleum was moved. Since it's on Youkai Mountain, it may make sense for hermits to be there. And it explains why those characters are in the background - Cirno likes to play there, after all.
True, that was also my first thought, except the pond is in the mountain, and surrounded by trees.
Post by: Frog on May 18, 2013, 03:11:01 pm
That portrait makes her look like a 6 year old :V
Anyway I've been pleasently suprised by these developments, really looking forward to seeing how the next characters play.
Woo, Futo! Now we just need Miko and Shou! :D
Oh god there better be a background character removal feature. If there isn't and Shou doesn't make it, I will be SUPER PISSED at Tasofro. D:
Cirno looks upset that she isn't playable.
This trait thing is similar to the character traits in Injustice: Gods Among Us, right?
Wow, I wondered if they shortened the shirt but it's actually more like SoPM lengthened it from the original art. That said, Futo's mannerisms and both ZUN's and SoPM's alt always made me think of her as kinda old-ish looking (for a Touhou character. That would mean like, high 20's to mid thirties or so) but her HM art... yea, she looks more childish than Remilia, Hisou Suwako, and Cirno :O I know the proportions were too small for the other characters but for Futo it's just REALLY bizarre.
I suppose the proportions might not be all that different from say, Marisa's or the others, and just are more blatant due to no frumpy dress covering it up.
The proportions in all the portraits are weird; all the torsos look really small, and the legs are very long.
Fortunately, the in-game sprites look better
Quote from: Sagus on May 18, 2013, 05:01:46 pm
alphes da best
That's something I always wondered about. Wouldn't it make the entire Mononobe clan an most of TDs cast an ally of Reimu? After all they have the same religious roots.
married by a shinto and buried by a buddhist, or something like that. In japan really the three sorta coincide pretty well, so you could really apply that to everything. They should all be allies really. :v
Yes, but one thing impedes that in Gensokyo, and that is everyone being clueless or a brat. :getdown:
For what it's worth, Byakuren and Miko genuinely seem to like Reimu. Byakuren doesn't even realize her temple is a rival to Reimu. Probably because it ISN'T. It's Reimu that sees Byakuren as her rival, not the other way around.
And Miko did try to recruit Reimu at the end of SoPM. As did Kanako (and Sanae sincerely offered her help to Reimu at the end of MoF). Reimu's hesitant reaction shows that deep down she probably likes them too but the frustration and ultimate rejection is likely from the ZUN-stated fact that Reimu's a loner in her heart and always will be.
You gotta remember that while everyone in Gensokyo fights each other, a lot of them then go to Reimu's parties or whatever else afterwards, too (well, not the big head religious head honchos but they've shown they're fond of Reimu in their own ways). ZUN's stated that all that posturing before a battle (where statements can get really mean sometimes) is just posturing and that they really all just enjoy this.
I've already seen some fanart of Byakuren's Kenshiro-esque flying kick a la Hokuto no Ken. Then again, I've seen her compared to HnK characters like Ken and especially Toki a small handful of times already.
(http://i.imgur.com/RbsM0Ul.jpg)
YOU WA SHOCKuren.
Still awaiting Futo=Jagi fanart considering the similarity between their respective Last Word and 1HKO.
I'll play through the games again and again just to get different endings to get a bit more of a glimpse of what the characters are like outside danmaku shenanigans. It never disappoints.
Truly, if any kind of religious conflict in Gensokyo were "serious" - and there have been many - the valley would be a smoking crater littered with bodies by now. Reimu just likes to go it alone, probably for a number of reasons: less work involved for her, less chance of someone getting offended that she's taken sides and starting more shit, but mostly, because she's the Hakurei Shrine maiden. That's her gig. She incident-solves just enough to be able to continue sweeping leaves in peace, so long as there's tea to be sipped together afterwards. Whatever anyone else gets up to is no concern of hers.
I rather like that quality of hers.
Yep. All Reimu wants is to have peace without violence. This is why I don't like it when she sometimes gets written off as a bitch. The way I see it, she's just a bit awkward socially. It comes from being somewhat of a loner.
Futo`s art has been refixed by /jp/
(http://i2.pixiv.net/img30/img/kog5/35787022.png)
it is even posted in pixiv as well!
I don't know about you all, but suddenly I'm starting to lose all hope that Shou will appear. I know I shouldn't hold any grudges against Tasofro, nor should I be making predictions like this until she is revealed or the game comes out, but I don't really know. At this rate, Hatate has a higher chance of making it in, and that's really sad. :(
I know I shouldn't hold any grudges against Tasofro
You could always not buy the game.
(I suspect you wouldn't be the only one! <_<)
Can't [img] wrap a pixiv image.
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=35787022
All they did was lower the saturation, pfft.
And shadow isn't simply "a darker version of the base color". What the fuck are you doing, /jp/
(http://i.imgur.com/aA3uv9H.png)
Yeah, this is part of what I love about an upcoming Touhou game: the legions of fans who have no intention of buying the game, but still expressing their disappointment and rage, throwing about "this game BETTER have [X] or I'm gonna be pissed" and general entitlement. So delicious.
But I p-play video games for the ch-characters!
Post by: Hinacle on May 18, 2013, 07:59:30 pm
Guys. Guys. I call the next character's portrait as my avvie. :V
ashdihausid Futttoooooooooo! I'm so happy to see her playable. I had hoped for her to be playable in 14, but then Sakuya came and ruined that *grumble*
You know what I've noticed?
Or, more accurately, not noticed.
The rest of the Taoists are not in the screenshots.
Other noteworthy "absences":
Anyone from the Moriya crew
Anyone from Satori's group
I play Labrys in Persona 4 Arena, and she uses this mechanic sort of. I don't really know how I feel about it. Her mechanic also allows her accumulated power to swing back the other way if you start to do badly, so it makes her very heavily momentum-based. Overall she's a slightly weak character initially, but who has the ability to absolutely blow out later rounds if she can keep momentum going her way. Maybe Futo will be similar. Balancing this sort of thing certainly would be tricky I imagine.
Post by: Ginko on May 19, 2013, 01:01:01 am
Many games have some sort of mechanic in which you accumulate power that is not reset between rounds (often the super/hyper bar, skillcards and some spellcards in soku, popularity here ...).
I don't think it's that unusual.
Quote from: Ginko on May 19, 2013, 01:01:01 am
Our very own SWR/12.3 had cards and weather.
I suppose; however, aren't those mechanics applied to everyone? Here the mechanics only belong to one person.
I'm fairly sure Marisa's 1-2-3 thing carries over as well, as well as any charge left over in Ichirin's rage. Charges on Byakuren will probably also carry over, and I honestly don't see it being much of a problem unless breaking the dishes is an attack in and of itself.
Post by: Jq1790 on May 19, 2013, 05:38:10 am
Well, one of Futo's attacks is only usable if you have some to break, right? That attack a little while ago in the topic? My guess is they're kinda like mines or something that Futo controls when they explode or something while she does her other moves. At least if this one screenshot from earlier in the topic is how it seems to me.
First, the screenshots have a limited field of view so for all we know they're off in the corner. Second, it's pretty obvious that Miko will be playable too, and obviously she'll have her own stage. It makes a bit more sense for them to hang out in Miko's stage. Third, if Sanae or anyone else form Moriya is playable, they'll likewise get their own stage. And, well, there are only three of them so one stage could easily cover the entire Moriya cast. If I were them I'd probably throw in Aya/Nitori/Kasen/Hina and the rest as a full "youkai mountain" cast. Or maybe that's a reason to have more than one stage?
I suppose the observation about Satori is interesting though. The fact that they haven't been randomly squeezed into the stages like Medicine and Letty might indicate... something. Maybe one of them is playable, or maybe Suwako's stage is still the reactor. Who knows?
Does every character need a stage? Why can't we just fight in the reactor, if that's where we want to fight?
Every character gets their own stage for the sake of arcade mode, I think. You can always select your stages for VS mode though.
Everyone needs a stage because the BGM is associated with the stages and obviously everyone gets their own theme song.
Check out this Byakuren art that's already been made: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=big&illust_id=35764111
Ah, Byakuren, you are the light of my day.
Quote from: Hinacle on May 18, 2013, 07:59:30 pm
It's gonna be Sanae.
OK, I said that on Byakuren's day and I was wrong, but I'm pretty sure this time :V
They've revealed a Buddhist and a Taoist. Shinto's gotta be next, right? You gotta ROTATE.
The legs aren't that long IMO. I think it's more that the arms are ridiculously short, which make them look that way. I mean, just look at Ichirin.
(http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/thumb/f/f4/Th135Ichirin.png/426px-Th135Ichirin.png)
My god. Her arms can't even reach past the top of her head. Raise your hand above your head, and you'll find that this is most definitely not the case in real life.
Ichirin color fix please. Her Cirno-colored hair, yuck.
omg Koishi confirmed I could see the SA crew being at the Moriya Shrine. I mean, Koishi was visiting it in SA extra. It would be less of a stretch than a lot of the random-as-hell spectators at the Mausoleum, anyways.
Her arm is making a \_ shape. It wouldn't go past the top of her head.
The arms seem proportionally correct with the body. It's just that the head is retardedly big.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img811/7481/derpherp.jpg)
Post by: Zil on May 19, 2013, 08:00:27 am
Aside from the heads being huge, they all seem mostly balanced to me. Futo's almost really cute, but those eyelashes...
Does anyone know who/what that is behind the explosion under Byakuren in the screenshot? I can't tell if it's part of her sprite or a background character.
Post by: CyberAngel on May 19, 2013, 09:44:54 am
Quote from: Star King on May 19, 2013, 07:14:53 am
More like two humans (Reimu & Marisa in the first video), two Buddhists (Ichirin in demo, then Byakuren) and a Taoist. If anything, the trend points to a next Taoist.
Quote from: Zmasterfunk on May 19, 2013, 08:00:27 am
I might be wrong, but I think it can be her scroll. If you look closely, you can see the colour shifts from purple to green as you move upwards. So perhaps she takes out her scroll while chanting, then Futo wailed on her?
Post by: MaStErSpArK94 on May 19, 2013, 11:46:05 am
Miko confirmed!
Post by: HyperGumba on May 19, 2013, 11:50:57 am
宇宙を司る全能道士 豊聡耳神子
人間の心から希望が失われている。
そう感じた神子は自らが希望となり、世界を救おうと考えた。
その為にはまず、邪魔な同業者を倒して
人心を掌握しなければならない。
神子は幻想郷で一番古い宗教施設を訊ねた。
特技 天職の為政者
人気を獲得するたびに観客の欲を吸収していき、
たくさんの欲を吸収するとあらゆる攻撃が強化されます。
逆に人気が喪失すると集めていた欲も放出され、
欲を失いすぎると攻撃が普段よりも貧弱になってしまうので、
人一倍衆目に気を使う必要があります。
ラストワード 詔を承けては必ず鎮め
全仙力と観客から集めた人気を勺に乗せ、
巨大な光剣と化して戦場を叩ききります。
攻撃範囲はフィールド中央周辺に限られますが、
光剣はグレイズもガードもできず、
間合いの内であれば全てを捻じ伏せることができます。
(http://i42.tinypic.com/292u1ah.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2wf4u43.jpg)
<Tengukami> The image tag is your friend, provided you use an image-hosting site!
MY BODY IS READY
Post by: Bound on May 19, 2013, 11:59:16 am
Holy crap, look at that cape.
Quote from: HyperGumba on May 19, 2013, 11:50:57 am
宇宙を司る全能道士
Her title is something along the lines of "Almighty Taoist that Rules the Universe" or something like that. That's a pretty kickass title. :V
And that cape is pretty nice.
Guys. I think the website's been broken. Again. :V
Of course, this means I can't see Miko's artwork right now, so... yeah.
Everyone knows that you put on a cape when you enter one-winged angel mode. Ask Yumemi!
It's nice how it makes her look a lot more princely now. I know she changed her appearance to match "modern times" but she just didn't have a very royal look before, IMHO.
Post by: HyperGumba on May 19, 2013, 12:06:22 pm
Quote from: Bound on May 19, 2013, 11:59:16 am
It's fucking purple. How awesome is this? :D
(http://i39.tinypic.com/6pw4sj.png)
Yay Batman Miko, her Shaku is really big this time :O
Post by: Yonowaaru on May 19, 2013, 12:12:32 pm
Almighty Taoist who administers Space ~ Toyosatomimi no Miko
Hope was disappearing from people's hearts.
Miko, feeling this, became her own hope, and thought to save the world.
To do that, first, she had to defeat the others trying to do so.
She had to grasp people's hearts.
Miko looked for Gensoukyou's oldest religious facility.
Special ability ~ Statesman of the Sacred Task
The more she aquires popularity, the more she absorbs the desires of the audience.
When she aquires a lot of desires, all of her attacks are strengthened.
Reversed, when she loses popularity, those collected desires are released,
and when she loses too many desires, her attacks get even weaker than usual.
You will need to pay even more attention than usual.
Last Word ~ Received Imperial Edicts must be controlled (I'm not too sure about this one)
All her hermit powers and the popularity from the audience are focused into one,
and are changed into a light sword that strikes the battlefield.
The scope of the attack is limited to the centre of the field,
but you cannot guard or graze the attack,
so if it's within the area the opponent can be held down.
Her LW description says something about her sword.
... Okay, I used Google for this, but if this turns out to be true, then :*
Edit: Nevermind, someone was faster :V
From the blog:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/8vr9nc.jpg)
HyperGoomba: Please do not use the image tags while linking directly to images on Tasofro's website. This needlessly increases load time on this end when their site is getting hammered by the number of people rushing to see the update.
I spy with my little eye:
Yuyuko, Youmu, Shikieiki, Seiga, Yoshika, Komachi and the Prismriver Sisters hidden behind Miko's attack.
Also why is Miko fighting her own disciple? Wait, is that Tojiko (Stage 5 midboss) behind Futo?
I don't really know what the new stage is. The entrance to Miko's tomb?
Well looks like Youmu, Seiga and yoshika are pretty much out of the picture. D:
But still, that badass cape. :]
Personally I'm expecting Sanae and possibly either Kanako or Suwako next.
Could see Mamizou working as a mimic/random character option ala charade from soul calibur, but that's probably not gonna happen.
Quote from: Frog on May 19, 2013, 12:17:56 pm
Yeah, my toughs exactly...
So, about that Miko power bar icon...
Tojiko confirmed for Futo assist? She looks too big to be a background character. Also, Seiga in background now. Doh.
Wow, Miko's sprite looks friggin' bad ass. But... since her cape is red (what happened to the purple?), I can't help but keep on thinking Yumemi now.
If that's Senkai, I find it ironic that there are tons of representatives of the afterlife chilling there.
If the number of days before its release is the number of non-boss or starting characters left, then we've got 6 more to reveal. They'll surely save the final boss and the the penultimate boss, if it's a new character, for until after release.
Did they do the same with the previous fighting games?
But... since her cape is red (what happened to the purple?), I can't help but keep on thinking Yumemi now.
YOU HEAR THAT RURO
YOU ARE REQUIRED TO LIKE MIKO NOW
Okay, Miko has a cape. And yes, like everyone else, I'm getting a Yumemi vibe.
Also, anyone know what that place is in the picture? Because I have a theory, but I'm probably wrong.
Could be the dojo as the Spirit Mausoleum could still be located behind the graveyard...
Those sandals are pretty hot, too. I gotta say, the Taoists in Gensokyo are pretty *~*~F A B U L O U S~*~*~
My best guess would be Miko's home/world, Senkai. Although it's awfully... populated for a secluded place that's meant for hermits. Assuming those people at the entrance are humans and not statues.
This'll sound a bit silly, but I think that cape is the best thing that could have happened to Miko. She had her whole 'I will unite Gensokyo under my faith' thing before but she was sort of lacking in physical presence. This makes up for that in the sweetest way possible.
Senkai is the obvious answer, but given the presence of the Prismrivers and Yuyuko it might be the netherworld. Wasn't there already a Senkai stage for Futo?
Miko's new cape really makes her look a lot more last-boss-ish now. Honestly it was hard for me to take her seriously as a ruler before because she looked so... not-intimidating. I guess Yumemi really knew her stuff.
Futo's stage is the spirit mausoleum, I believe.
So, Byakuren had that hat, and Miko has a cape.
When Sanae appears, I predict she'll be wearing one of those giant feathered head-dresses that they wear during Rio Carnival or something.
Oops, sorry. Put it into qoutes now, spoilers didn't want to work.
Also, Tojiko's size is intriguing indeed. But I suppose she would have been mentioned in Futo's post if she were to assist in any way?
Or does HM introduce Stage hazards as in Smashbros.? :D
Wow, I don't know who I like the look of more. None of these so far would be my first choices for main just based on the character, but they're all looking pretty attractive based on the vague descriptions of how they play and on how their sprits look. Except Ichirin. Still don't care about her. :derp:
And somebody who's less lazy than me should photoshop some Gurren Lagann glasses onto Miko, what with the cape and all.
Quote from: HyperGumba on May 19, 2013, 12:48:03 pm
Really, all you need do is upload the images to Tinychat or Imgur - like you did - and then use the image tag, or link to them if they're too big.
Sir Amat: I actually did the Tinypic upload for him once I noticed that he was hotlinking directly to TF's website.
<Tengukami> You're a good guy, Kilga, I don't care what those Irish kids say about you.
Hehee, sorry for the troubles. I am not around as much, but that's good to know for future postings.
Here's my translation.
Almighty Taoist who governs the universe
Toyosatomimi no Miko
Hope is disappearing from humans' hearts.
Thinking about this, Miko decided to become hope herself, and save the world.
To this end, first she must be defeat those in the same trade who stand in her way, and win over people's hearts.
So, Miko has come to visit the oldest religious institution in Gensokyo.
Special Ability: The Divinely Appointed Stateswoman
[NOTE: 天職, literally "heaven-given occupation", first used to refer to the duty of the Japanese emperor, later became the standard translation of the Protestant concept of "calling".]
Absorb the audience's desires when gaining popularity.
After absorbing a large amount of desires, all attacks will be enhanced.
On the other hand, the gathered desires will be released upon losing popularity.
Lose too many desires, and your attacks will be weaker than normal.
You must pay even more attention to the audience than everyone else.
Last Word: Suppression by the commands of Sovereign
[NOTE: referencing the 3rd article of Shoutoku's Constitution, Do not fail to obey the commands of your Sovereign (http://www.sarudama.com/japanese_history/jushichijokenpo.shtml)]
Pouring all her hermit power and the popularity gathered from the audience into her shaku ritual baton [NOTE: typo in the original text], turning it into a huge sword of light to strike at the battlefield.
The attack is restricted to the middle of the field, bu the sword of light can't be grazed or guarded. Any opponent within its range will be overwhelmed.
She's the embodiment of the Taoist type, specializing in lasers and beams.
Like a turret, she's strong against opponents on the same altitude, and have trouble dealing with those aren't.
The increase and decrease of popularity is recorded by her unique parameter, at a certain level triggering her strengthened state or weakened state, at which point the color of her cape will change, so you can know her state without looking at her gauge.
Has specials that automatically increase her popularity, and skills that consume her internal charge.
The special in the screenshot is "Seventeen Lines of Lasers". She cuts open space with her sword, and lasers come out of the rift.
At reduced popularity, there will be less than 17 lasers.
U2 Aki reminds us to look at Miko's special ability icon:
(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/BKoJncVCcAE3jnS_zps19767ecc.jpeg)(http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad70/cucuct/forum%20posts/BKoH-vtCYAAXSYz_zps0f628268.jpeg)
The gaijin 4koma is a universal language, right?
For as long as that meme has been around, I can't say I'm surprised it's made its way to Japan. Still made me shout-laugh to see it here, though.
Now I know who will I main.
That's just hilarious. :getdown:
Okay. I had a bit of a chuckle at that one.
While the four guys in the photos are IGN editors, this meme actually originated on 2ch.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/reaction-guys-gaijin-4koma
It is interesting how it isn't exactly Gaijin 4koma, though. The second image resembles it; the first, not so much. It's clear what it's referencing, though.
I was thinking it was Senkai, but because of how the place looks I wasn't completely sure.
There are quite a few possibilities. It's a late (15 century and later) Chinese-style structure, built with stone rather than wood, making it look like a mausoleum (because in ancient China generally only tombs are built with all stone). Netherworld, Higan, Senkai and somehow previously unrevealed structure in Gensokyo are all possibilities.
Also take notice of the hermit-looking old men in the middle of the stage.
Makin' a list (again) of who we haven't seen yet...
Suwako (Side note: Still no one from MoF has been seen yet...)
Koishi (Side note: Aside from Yuugi, no one from the underground has been seen yet...)
Mamizou
Kosuzu
Side note: Still no one from MoF has been seen yet...
Now that two Taoists have been revealed, we can probably expect Sanae (Moriya Shrine stage, most likely) and either Kanako or Suwako (Wind God's Lake stage?); and with them, most of the MoF cast as background characters.
I think we can safely rule out the likes of Rumia, Yuuka, and the Watas. I mean come on now.
Now that two Taoists have been revealed, I'm expecting Sanae (Moriya Shrine stage, most likely) and either Kanako or Suwako (Wind God's Lake stage?); and with them, most of the MoF cast as background characters.
That'll bring us to 5 characters announced, of about 9 or 10 at the rate Tasofro is going. So... who are the 4-5 wild cards?
Someone seems to have identified the building in the back as Seitenkyuu, a famous Taoist temple in Saitama.
(http://nathanbauman.com/odysseus/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Seitenkyu-Taoist-temple-in-Saitama-Japan-Inner-gate.jpg)
Thanks! You got it from 2chan, I presume?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seitenky%C5%AB
goddaaaamnnnnn
Post by: Critz on May 19, 2013, 02:06:51 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/WiiXX8L.jpg]i.imgur.com/WiiXX8L.jpg)
From: http://boards.4chan.org/jp/res/10908716 (http://boards.4chan.org/jp/res/10908716)
Do I see a Shameimaru? Any idea which site it is from?
I've seen that Aya before.
(http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2508/x7iw.jpg)
But it has been posted on Twitter a a long time ago (http://twitter.yfrog.com/hwx7iwj)
Was never able to found the full image of her.
The shop probably thought that image was official or something. :V
(http://i.imgur.com/NobBd3R.png)
Miko looks great, I'd like to play her but I guess it's pretty clear which side I'll take.
Also, well played Tasofro. They really have good sense of humor. At this rate, I'm more excited to see the references that they'll put rather than the character themselves, unless Kanako is confirmed. Now that would be great.
Not my work. (http://i.imgur.com/h6YVeYz.jpg)
Post by: Lightseeker on May 19, 2013, 02:53:35 pm
Not my work as well.
(http://i.imgur.com/vOVFvqi.png)
More observation from my friends:
-Youmu is feeding Yuyuko rice balls.
-The Tojiko behind Futo is too large to be a background character, but doesn't seem like either character is summoning her for an attack. She might be there as a curse/status ailment, similar to Zappa's curses from Guilty Gear.
I really like the new character designs.
Byakuren looks more like a monk with the traditional rice hat, prayer beads around her neck and the six-ring staff (shakujo). Since all of the three can be seen as items related to Buddhism.
While Miko looks more like someone important... well, the cape really adds to her "greatness" and can be seen as an item that represents power.
Miko's design is BADASS.
THAT CAPE.
I'm not a big fan of her cape. I liked the gradient color in her design. Now there's all this purple. The in game sprite is also disappointing. That cape is red, a color that isn't even in her design.
It is said to change colors, depending on Miko's popularity.
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on May 19, 2013, 05:05:22 pm
Sure! Especially since now I know I can punch her across the screen in the name of glorious Buddhism.
I also actually don't like that cape, red doesn't suit her at all. Purple was way better of a 'main' colour for her. I'll probably warm up to it later, but right now it looks ridiculous. e: Now that I consider it further, half the reason it bugs me is probably the art style. I can't wait to see what the fanartists do with it.
Now, if you REALLY wanted me to love Miko, you would have pointed out how she's gonna use that sweet sword of hers in fights.
Oh, very yes.
I don't mind the redness of the cloak at all, but in thinking about it I have to agree that the purpleness would match the rest of her outfit a bit better.
Quote from: Setsakura Higashi on May 19, 2013, 05:05:22 pm
All we've got is stills so far. I'm gonna need gameplay footage for this! :C
Quote from: Formless Void on May 19, 2013, 07:45:44 am
Nah. If you want another comparison, stand up straight with your arms down. The tips of your fingers should reach halfway between your hip and your knee. But hers would only go to her hip. They should be like 30% longer.
Quote from: C.Angel on May 19, 2013, 09:44:54 am
I was thinking in terms of "characters revealed after the demo". But clearly I was wrong.
Oh well. I guess it's gonna be Sanae next then. lol
I gotta agree. I never thought Miko could seem so badass - because TD left me unimpressed with her as a character. For such an apparently legendary figure, I always thought Byakuren had the much more "epic" boss battle (though this might be in part due to Byakuren being way harder).
Suwako/Kanako (dunno, maybe Suwako because she was already in a fighting game)
Kasen (we've pretty much run out of other options for Taoism, and it would go along well with Wild and Horned Hermit...)
Uh, that would still need 2 more. Maybe they'll just have two more "factionless" characters, like Marisa, so it'll be 3 for each of 4 groups. Or maybe both of Suwako and Kanako, not just one, and, uh, Koishi. idk lol. That would leave the Taoists with one less though. Maybe they'll just leave it that way as a representative of how they DO have less characters. Or maybe Marisa will follow through on her conversion to Taoism at the end of TD :3 (kidding)
Then color of the cape is dependent on the popularity, while the popularity is dependent on the color of the cape. There's a fun relationship.
That cape must have self esteem issues.
Post by: Kingault on May 19, 2013, 05:52:14 pm
I'd say that Kanako is more likely to appear than Suwako. I think that Post-Myst mentioned in the entries of one that Kanako was the one that usually dealt with gathering faith, or something.
It would be interesting to see Kanako in a fighting game at last...
Oh, and Kasen...
(http://i.imgur.com/xrD7cPn.png?2)
rofl god dammit
Dammit. :V
Sooo... Let's start the speculation.
Sanae's stage will be Moriya's temple.
Characters include Aya, Momiji (they get along in this game because canon consistency doesn't matter when they're background characters), Kasen and Aki sisters (again, canon consistency is irrelevant). Maybe some tengu fillers.
Kanako's stage will be the lake behind the temple. Background characters will include Nitori, Hina, Suwako, and maybe anonymous kappas. If they're not in Sanae's stage, the Komeiji sisters will be here too.
There won't be any forest stage, no Mamizou or Alice background characters.
Quote from: Star King on May 19, 2013, 05:35:28 pm
I only know something. It'd be a waste if they didn't include Mamizou as a playable character. So many interesting gimmicks could be made with her... I'd imagine her as a sort of Shang-Tsung or Yumeji Kurokouchi from Samurai Showdown 5. (The latter can transform on other characters for a brief amount of time as well)
I hope Mamizou is skipped.
I also have no better reason for feeling this way than I think she's the most ridiculous character ZUN ever conceived, and should've ended up on the editing room floor.
In all likelihood, Sanae and Kanako will appear, but for some reason I also get the feeling we'll be seeing Youmu. I have nothing to base that on but my own intuition, though.
Have you read any of Forbidden Scrollery?
You might have missed it, or perhaps not, but I do think she has had some nice development ever since she was introduced in TD.
Initially her only purpose was fighting the imminent Taoist 'invasion', but ended up just lazing about the temple since the heroines had already dealt with the antagonists. It may be a while now and it's questionable whether Mamizou has any strong feelings towards any religion, but I would assume that she might jump into the action she had missed out on in TD.
Post by: Zemyla on May 19, 2013, 06:42:29 pm
I'm hoping that Mamizou is never directly playable, but instead, when there's a mirror match, one of them has a raccoon's ears and tail.
Quote from: Zemyla on May 19, 2013, 06:42:29 pm
APPROPRIATE RESOLUTION.
Mamizou is rather goofy looking. Not as bad as EOSD Sakuya but still.
Yes, this is why I have my reasons. I fully admit it has nothing to do with whatever role she's played in FS, her importance in the religious conflict or whatever. Her look is just 100% derp. Shallow, I know, but there you have it.
Oh god, this is great. I want this to be a thing, so bad.
They should be like 30% longer.
I'm sure the left elbow ended where it should be, though.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/333lqnt.png)
I didn't really find much interest in her at the time TD launched, I agree on her outfit. But I like her FS outfit much, much more.
(not original artist, but this is accurate enough and in color)
A thought I just had. The whole thing with Miko's ability icon, is a joke right? It seems to me that if that's the case, then Tosofro is willing to mess with us a bit through these previews and that makes me wonder how else they might be messing with us.
Does anyone know what the Japanese community thinks about the characters in the background being unplayable?
I think you're being a bit too paranoid. I'm pretty sure it's just like an innocent joke
Post by: Sparen on May 19, 2013, 08:15:52 pm
Still, Youmu and Yuyuko, Seiga and Murasa... they were all in background, right?
Post by: Jq1790 on May 19, 2013, 08:20:12 pm
I don't play the fighters, but speculation sounds fun and I have an idea for if, for the moriya group, ONLY Sanae showed up.
Her ability would allow her to invoke a miracle based on either of her two gods. If her popularity was low she'd invoke Kanako for some offensive boost to help regain momentum. If it's high, she'd get a defensive boost from Suwako to help hold her ground.
Just an idea. What do all of you think? She could have attacks that directly affected her popularity either way so she had a degree of control over that beyond the general status of the fight thus far.
@Hinacle: Sure it is, now what other innocent jokes are they playing? I'm kidding but also not really.
@Sparen: Yup
@Jq1790: Sanae's ability to grant miracles stem from her status as a living god right? Getting Kanako and Suwako invovled seems like it would be them preforming the miracles on her behalf. I think one way to do Sanae would be to make Kanako and Suwako to be her shot types. That could be pretty cool. Ultimately though, I'd really like to see Kanako as a playable character.
The background thing almost feels like a moot point now. 2 taoists, 2 bhudists, 2 moriyans, Reimu, and Marisa is already 8 characters. And then there's a last boss (and maaaaybe mid-boss, but only maybe.) It'd be really hard to expect much more than that given that Tasofro is making everything from the ground up.
I didn't realize it before, but now with the likelihood of 2 Moriyans being here (since everyone else related to the religious factions is in the background already. ...yes, I know I just said the background thing almost feels like a moot point now. Whatever), Kanako really should be there (2 Moriyans means there's room for her after the obvious Sanae). After all, she, Byakuren, and Miko were the three "head honchos" in SoPM, and since SoPM was almost like a prelude to HM, it would make sense for Kanako to be there when Miko and Byakuren already are. And like stated earlier, Kanako really has been explicitly stated to be the one responsible for going out there, putting on a show, and gathering faith, which is what Hopeless Masquerade IS. The entire point of the whole story is to go out, put on a show, and gather faith, and that's what's Kanako's job description has been ever since Suwako stated it back in MoF.
I think Kanako makes more sense than Suwako for this game anyway, since Suwako's gimmicks largely revolved around hopping around and using the ground, which doesn't work in a purely airborne battle.
Kanako's probably a shoe-in, which is great since I'm likely to main her!
Quote from: Stuffman on May 19, 2013, 10:20:53 pm
Also, wasn't Kanako a goddess of storms or something? Since this is an air sort of thing it would only make sense to have her.
Also I take it the Symposium was probably a prelude to this, and seeing Kanako as the main business woman at the Moriya Shrine I can't envision Suwako being doing much since she has 'retired'.
Post by: Alfred F. Jones on May 20, 2013, 12:08:18 am
I want to see the Moriya gods show up in the background of a screencap and have people freak out over them maybe not being playable, only to reveal them as playable characters anyway because appearing in multiple locations is something Shinto deities can do (and did, in 12.3, when Sanae could summon Suwako to fight Suwako.)
Quote from: Setsakura Higashi on May 20, 2013, 12:08:18 am
and did, in 12.3, when Sanae could summon Suwako to fight Suwako.
Great point. I wondered how that was possible, especially since Sanae is required to fight Suwako.
Quote from: Sparen on May 20, 2013, 12:52:44 am
I just assumed it was some sort of robo-Suwako situation. Sanae is from the modern world, so she probably knows how to whip up realistic automatons of Suwakos from materials you would find in 1800s Japan. Or maybe Nitori did it. :derp:
Edit: Oh yeah, and the twist ending is that the character Suwako was actually a rogue android the whole time, while the Sanae's attack Suwako was the real one. Bet you didn't see that coming! :o
You're joking right? That's just a game mechanics thing. Nothing beyond that.
Quote from: Synnae ~★ on May 20, 2013, 02:02:31 am
Yyyyyyyyes? Yes, that was a joke. I was hoping the "this is a joke" smiley face and the fact that it was really dumb would be plenty to make that clear...
Ah, alright. Sometimes it's hard to identify if someone is being serious or not on the internet. XD
Looking back at my ever shortening list, I'll wager the odds on the next one:
5-3 Kanako
2-1 Sanae
3-1 Suwako
3-1 Koishi (she is a laywoman of the Myouren Temple)
5-1 other
Kanako is practically a given at this point. The rest, not so much.
That'll bring us to 4 with about 5 or 6 left to announce... Aa~aand who the hell is left? Sanae? Koishi? Then what? Meiling? Yuuka?
My remaining 7...
4. Kanako
5. Sanae
6. Koishi
7. Mamizou
err...
8. Tenshi
9. Meiling (Chinese -> Taosim?)
10. Yorihime
I'm really grasping at straws here...
Man all this speculation for Koishi, stop giving me hope guys.
I just assumed it was some sort of robo-Suwako situation. Sanae is from the modern world, so she probably knows how to whip up realistic automatons of Suwakos from materials you would find in 1800s Japan.
That's implying that all of us can build robots already :V It'd be a miracle if she could make one herself with the knowledge of the outside world...
...:V
At this point I'm guessing ten characters.
Reimu, Marisa, Ichirin, Byakuren, Futo, and Miko are confirmed.
I think Sanae and Kanako are almost a certainty.
We know there will be at least one new character, and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that there will actually be two. Did I miss something that indicates that there won't be more than one?
If I was going to call two more characters beyond that, they would be Utsuho (fighting as Kanako's champion) and Meiling (mostly because she seems to be a great fit for fighting games).
Quote from: Gpop on May 20, 2013, 02:30:34 am
You can't build robots? I'm pretty sure everyone else in this room can build astoundingly realistic robots. You know, on account of it being 2013 and all, and therefore the future. Sorry man... :3
Not really, while their odds are fairly low, I wouldn't rule them out. Rumia's odds are very low, because she is a stage 1 boss and thought to be weak. Most of the fighting game characters are around stage 3 and up.
Watatsuki sisters, since they are in a manga, it would make sense for them to not appear anywhere on the background.
That said, almost all of the Phantasmagoria of Flower Viewing cast has been shown except Aya and Yuuka. Both of these characters fall under the conditions of possible fighting game characters. They might appear in other stages, since not all stages have been shown.
Gods can split themselves infinitely. Suwako can both help Sanae and fight her.
@next character: Sanae is a given. Kanako or Suwako would be playable, not quite sure which one. If Symposium of Post Mysticism is to go by, then it will be Kanako. But in either case, I expect only 2 of the 3 Moriyas to be playable and Sanae already takes one of the spots. Pretty much, if Kanako is playable, Suwako is not. If Suwako is playable, Kanako is not.
But will that be all? There should be 1 new character, which is the final boss and possibly a second new character, like what happened in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody. Mamizou also seems to have pretty good odds, as she isn't seen yet.
Her odds are not non-existant. She hasn't appeared yet and according to SoPM, The assumption was that you would see her in the Buddhist temple, which we have not. Though, why would she join this conflict?
Post by: The ⑨th Zentillion on May 20, 2013, 03:16:00 am
To be remembered. Winning a big tournament based on peoples' faith might be just the thing to do it.
A bit of a stretch, sure, but that's an idea to just toss out there, really. :V
I think all the deity characters have a chance, so I'm rooting for Shizuha, Minoriko, and Hina as well, even if they are minor characters compared to Kanako and Suwako.
Post by: lightdreamer on May 20, 2013, 04:23:45 am
Sorry, but they have as much chance for being in the game as Mima. :V
Quote from: lightdreamer on May 20, 2013, 04:23:45 am
Better than Mima, at least.
Post by: StratusAsterion on May 20, 2013, 06:11:25 am
My first post :D
Hello Touhou fans! I wanted to participate in this game's speculations so let me start by saying I'm ecstatic of Miko's inclusion in the game since my top favorite characters are
1.Alice
2.Aya
3.Flandre
4.Miko
5.Sanae
and since it seems like non of my top 3 are in Miko and the huge possibility of Sanae are a-okay with me (but poor Arisu :<)
also would be hilarious if Flandre was in it just for randomness and she's nerfed to being the worst character XP
I look forward to my stay here ^^
Post by: SilentShaman on May 20, 2013, 06:20:24 am
Nice to see Ichirin appearing again.
God this feels just like waiting for the Brawl blogs to come I'm racked with nerves.
Tasofro's homepage has been updated with their Reitaisai poster. As expected, no Moriya in sight.
Post by: Malyszeq on May 20, 2013, 09:59:51 am
http://i.imgur.com/WiiXX8L.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/WiiXX8L.jpg)
Is this really... SHAMEIMARU?
We discussed about this image before in this thread. Whoever set up this stand seems to have gotten a piece of fanart mimicking the style and put it on their shop. It's not really canon, sadly.
Miko looks even more glorious in that pose. I guess that is her "spell card activate" pose.
I think I am going to play her a lot!
Miko: Bit*h please, I sparkle.
Reimu: Sorry, we can't have two. I'll kill you now.
:derp:
On a different note: I'm probably going to main her because Miko?
Hope that poster isn't the only update we're getting today...
Like all true great charismatic leaders.
This could be the worst game ever at this point and I wouldn't care. What this game has done with/for Miko has earned Tasofro my undying affection.
Actually, those make a lot of sense. At least Minoriko might have a good chance of appearing, she is a goddess after all.
With that cape, every time I see Miko now I can't help but think of Dracula from Symphony of the Night: "Here is TRUE POWER!" :V
Not really, while their odds are fairly low, I wouldn't rule them out.
Tell you what: if Rumia, Yuuka or either of the Watas appear in this game, I will write a work of fiction at least 800 words long depicting you being honored by the 2hu of your choice.
As expected, no Moriya in sight.
Who was expecting that?
Its too bad though this monster of the day thing was really fun.
I might main Miko just for the sparkles and cape.
Post by: ToyoRai on May 20, 2013, 01:38:07 pm
Hi. Just activated my profile.
To post my opinion, I don't see why people think there should be 2 Moriya characters. Reason for that is because they are Shinto(ism?). And due the fact that for now there are just two people from Buddhism and Taoism, why they should be 3 from Shinto? Or did you people forget Reimu was Shinto Shrine Maiden?
Also, hopes that there is a character reveal this day.
Quote from: ToyoRai on May 20, 2013, 01:38:07 pm
Or did you people forget Reimu was Shinto Shrine Maiden?
Reimu and the Moriyas don't exactly get along. Going two-two-two and then some extra characters (Marisa, whatever new boss/bosses, etc) makes sense, but we'll find out soon enough.
Post by: zferolie on May 20, 2013, 01:58:46 pm
I would expect at least Kanako would show up in this, since she was a big part in the last Data book, and she is all about getting faith. No way the Moriya shrine would skip out on this.
Besides, I don't think Reimu came up with this plan. When they mentioned the big 3 religions, I imagine Kanako, Namusan, and Miko came up with this, and reimu showed up because she wants more faith for her side.
As for why we didn't get a character shown today... maybe they are just running late? I'll keep looking at the site every so often. I expect to see Kanako, and maybe the Hermit from the manga. As for new or other returning characters, have they comfirmed that? Personally, I would like to see Yuuka in a fighting game, but she wouldn't fit into this getting faith thing. She would just be there because someone hurt her flowers.
Post by: Yatakarasu on May 20, 2013, 01:59:14 pm
I seriously can't get over Miko's cape. I don't know why. :getdown:
Reimu's shinto, but she's also independent, and always will be. In the end, Reimu fights for Reimu!
Pretty much. Marisa also is independent, so I doubt she is fighting to promote Shinto. She's fighting to have fun. And maybe help Reimu.
Quote from: Yatakarasu on May 20, 2013, 01:59:14 pm
It's the greatest thing to happen to this series since PoFV, that's why.
Quote from: Ebidle on May 20, 2013, 01:52:19 pm
Reimu and the Moriyas don't exactly get along.
Still, they are part of same religion, so I myself think that only one of Moriyas will appear. I am hoping that Kanako will be the one, as it would be interesting if the roster would mainly be new characters for the most part.
Though since this game will most likely feature new character, I wonder what religion would she be part of. Maybe Christianity, but that might be wishful thinking.
Christianity isn't exactly dieing in Japan, so why would it enter Gensokyo? Isn't Gensokyo the place where youkai and items that are forgotten or in danger go? I mean, it would be interesting to see what sort of Youkai would follow it, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Yeah, I'm kind of leaning that way too, of everyone we've seen so far. Cloak Of Charisma +6 is working as planned. :D
I see Shizuha having a better chance. She seems to want to be more popular after all.
Quote from: zferolie on May 20, 2013, 02:17:45 pm
Christianity is still MAJOR minority in Japan compared to other religions. Not only that, most Japanese don't follow one religion cultures (the saying did go "Born as Shinto, married as Christian and died as Buddhism" or something like that, right?). So in Touhou universe, Christianity might be so minority in Japan, it might appear in Gensokyo in some form (its not like they don't know what Christianity is at all).
ZUN's preferences towards everything western culture that isn't alcohol kind of precludes Christianity's inclusion into Gensokyo, but I suppose only time will tell.
We'll know for sure if we ever see a Matthew Perry touhou or a Black Ship youkai.
A Major Minority yes, but enough to get to Gensokyo? Not sure. I mean it would be interesting, seeing how Gensokyo reacts to a more western religon.
Yeah, he tends to keep this more Eastern based. I don't think I have heard of many western references in touhou other then the moon war when we landed on the moon and met the Moon rabbits and kingdom
They added a new character! Nitori!
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/7e1ea532dc7e18629295969cb18a076b/tumblr_mn3rqaq8ax1rmvijso1_500.jpg)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/5654803c36db5ce74176737961f78a4c/tumblr_mn3rqaq8ax1rmvijso2_400.jpg)
河の便利屋さん 河城にとり
里はお祭り騒ぎだ。
あちこちで実力者によるストリートファイトが 行われており、
人々が興奮しているようだ。
興奮と熱狂はそのまま信者を生む。
それでは、 宗教家に良いように利用されるだけだ。
一部の河童には宗教を嫌う文化を持っていた。
特技 水妖エネルギー
強力な兵器の数々で武装していますが、
兵器を使うにはエネルギーが必要です。
エネルギーが足りないと兵器の性能が低下したり、
使用不能になったりします。
エネルギーの残量はラウンドをまたぐまで回復しないので、
ペース配分を考えた運用が要求されます。
ラストワード スーパースコープ3D
光学迷彩マントで姿を消して退避し、
場外から一方的な空爆を見舞います。
移動キーで照準を動かし弱打撃キーで砲撃、
放たれた砲弾は照準地点で爆発します。
数発周期でダメージと爆発範囲が強化された砲弾を発射します。
Do not direct link.
Sorry. I added them to my tumblr, so I have tumblr links now
What? Nitori? Why? That's awesome! I love it. :D
WHAT?? I don't even...
HOW? Can someone please explain to me how she's related to the religious war? I'm completely and utterly dumbfounded at the moment...
O god, that last word.
Really, I didn't see her coming.
Do not direct link images from tasofro's website. Rehost them on imgur or something if you want to paste them directly in here, but do not steal tasofro's bandwidth any more than necessary.
Quote from: Kosachi on May 20, 2013, 03:07:43 pm
HOW? Can someone please explain to me how she's related to the religious war? I completely and utterly dumbfounded at the moment...
She's part of the "I hate religious stuff and they're having too much of a good time." group.
"Kappa hates religion", simple as that.
>Notices site doesn't load
"Hmm, must be adding new character which is causing traffic."
>New character is Nitori
.... Well then!
And holy crap, she has third-person shooter Last Word!
Best part: they updated the site 5 minutes before 0AM. Nice troll.
If my auto-translator is saying what I think it's saying, it sounds like her mechanic is sort of like Aigis is Persona 4. Her weapons use energy, which she has a limited amount of each round. Alternatively, her energy level regenerates slowly but any used energy doesn't automatically restore across rounds. Either way, sounds interesting.
Post by: Dead Princess Sakana on May 20, 2013, 03:15:43 pm
So her Last Word is Solid Snake's Final Smash from Brawl. Perfect. :D
So she is now heretic or something? I mean, kappas and tengus are Moriyas main source of faith and Nitori being like "Screw that, science is better." would make her one if Rikako has proven that.
You could not get more loli with these character portraits.
Nitori should be awesome though.
To be precise, "some kappa has a culture of disliking religions".
This is classic fighting game side characters' silly joke motives. And that over-shoulder POV! (LW: SuperScope 3D). ZUN can at last play as a kappa in the fighting game. Well played.
Sorry about that. I put it on my tumblr, and linked to that instead.
Holy shit, I just literally gave up on refreshing their page, and then this happens.
Yeah. I see her siding with the Moriyas. Maybe Sanae is not in it, and instead we get Nitori and Kanako? Perhaps Sanae was a bad girl.
It says absolutely nothing about her energy level regenerating.
Whatever is left is that; it doesn't get restored. The description says you have to think carefully about how you pace out your use of energy.
Quote from: Mizuki Suiren on May 20, 2013, 03:24:59 pm
Interesting. I like the sound of that a lot. I don't recall ever seeing something quite like that in a fighting game. It also seems to be implying that some of her attacks get weaker the less energy she has left, but again that could be me misreading the near nonsense that came out of my translator.
Interesting. I like the sound of that a lot. I don't recall ever seeing something quite like that in a fighting game.
I think the closest thing I can think of relating to that would be Bang Shishigami from BlazBlue, who has limited amough of nails he can use. Where I doubt I would use Nitori, I think this is interesting, having either option to use her energy sparingly (Bang can use nails to throw "kunais" or create bumpers to bounce off, each costing only one nail normally ) or if in a pinch, just unleashe all the energy you have for a lot of damage (Bang can use all of his nails to create a rain of nails for a lot of hits and damage).
Actually it implies that she can't use some of her attacks if she lacks energy for them. Let alone reduced power.
This was posted at 11:58AM in Japan. Unabara said on twitter he overslept. O RLY?
Need translations? This one isn't hard, but typing on a phone is painful.
Energy fills up at the start of the next round. Or that is what the description implies.
Some weapons weaken when she doesn't have enough energy. (I think it's a on/off thing, instead of gradual)
Some weapons are rendered unusable.
便利屋, is this thing exclusive to Japan or something?
Suddenly Nitori! That's a nice surprise.
She's most likely in the "FOR SCIENCE!" faction or something like that.
Quote from: Sungho on May 20, 2013, 03:39:05 pm
回復しない means it doesn't recover
便利屋 is basically a service for home management, appliances, etc. Utilities? Something like that.
Quote from: ★Drizzly Magician★ on May 20, 2013, 03:39:57 pm
It has been stated earlier, basically there are some kappa who do not like religion. We can only assume Nitori is part of that group because otherwise it wouldn't have been mentioned
Right, although Bang's stock resets every round. Maybe Nitori's does too and I'm misreading so far. I wonder if Nitori will also have an attack that empties her entire remaining stock for big damage like Bang does?
Right, it seems clear that you can't use what you can't pay for, but I'm not clear on if the actual strength of the attacks is supposed to be effected as well.
Between Futo growing in strength over time, Nitori eventually becoming unable to use certain attacks/possible gradually getting weaker, and Miko's power level potentially fluctuating significantly, this game could have some bizarre matchups and interactions. Looking forward more and more to seeing how it all fits together. It's shaping up to be quite a complex game.
Post by: Garlyle on May 20, 2013, 03:42:22 pm
pls rikako pls rikako pls rikako etc
this is a legit surprise all the same; I was going to put my money on Sanae + Kanako as Moriya/MoF representatives... y'know, if indeed she's allied with the Moriya and not just out to prove SCIENCE
(http://i.imgur.com/xL18VWE.jpg)
Oh look, that is all of the Moriyas in the background there :derp:
I'm curious if Nitori's backpack will count as part of her hitbox, because it effectively doubles her sprite-size.
New screen.
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7863/731c.jpg)
Suwako, Kanako and Sanae in the background!?
Are those in the water generic kappa? Also, I see someone sneaky taking pictures. :D
So the cape changes colors?
I am pleased by this development.
Though Snake's Brawl super wasn't the first thing I thought of. Anyone remember that one bonus level in Krack-Shot Kroc from Donkey Kong Country 3?
EDIT: Oh snap, background Moriyas. (And MORE CAPE :*)
Mother of Amaterasu... So who is guessing that Hina will appear, since Aki Sisters are also in the background, with few kappas? :v:
And I must admit, frog jump carpet-jumping looks so silly and yet awesome at the same time.
We discussed about this already. Miko's cape changes colors depending on how popular she is. Also, third power icon with Miko, with the "neutral" Gaijin 4Koma picture
Are those in the water generic kappa?
They look like they have flat green hats... GENERIC ZUNS!
Also, is that Kanako's hair in the lower left corner?
Sanae's presence in the background is a real surprise. It seems like a real curveball to not have her in the game. Not that I mind, I would rather have almost anyone else, but she seemed to fit. And if Kanako is out as well I'll be genuinely shocked.
The cape also doubles as a fame meter (red = GOOD!; purple = normal; blue(?) = bad)
So it is official now? Moriya shrine has lost the religious war...
Anyway, I didn't even dream about Nitori being a playable character ever so this is pleasant surprise.
I can already see the cape color-changing becoming a nice gimmick for fanfiction/fanart as well :V
And there's Aya in the back.
Post by: DSveno on May 20, 2013, 03:53:01 pm
People, science is a religious in its own. Let science joins the war.
commandercool's rule number one of fighting games is "main the robot". Since there don't seem to be any robots in the running (pending Hisoutensoku :derp:), robo arms is the next best thing. I assume robo arms will feature into Nitori's moveset at least a little, and hopefully fairly heavily.
Hina isn't there... I suspect something...
Wa!? Nitori!? Awesome!!!
I honestly didn't expected her to appear here, but if you consider that she was stated to appear in Hisoutensoku....
Post by: Zengeku on May 20, 2013, 04:00:09 pm
Yay for Nitori appearance! Makes me happy. And her art looks so hot. Byak and Miko too. I guess this is gonna be a pretty fun fighter afterall :3
I BARELY see Kanako's head there... and her not being in would surprise me.
Have they confirmed that if you are in a background you won't be playable? I mean, other fighting games have characters in the background and still playable(Aquapazza, MvC3, Skullgirls(when Big band is out))
Photon Torpedo
who star trek here
Quote from: Zengeku on May 20, 2013, 04:00:09 pm
Keep the new characters coming. I'm getting more hopeful with every update :V
BTW, to you people who say some kappas hate religion, where has that been stated? I haven't found anything what has said that myself.
Post by: 7TC7 on May 20, 2013, 04:03:30 pm
Now that all predictions seem to have been thrown out of the window and the religious heads seem to be Byakuren, Miko and Reimu I guess everything is possible. I'm expecting one more character from the Mountain (i predict Momizi or Hatate) followed by two from the underground (expecting Rin and Koishi, as Okuu already was playable and Satori seems not the kind to show interest in this). If they are gonna release one character until Saturday, that's still two characters short though...
Post by: The Noodles Guy on May 20, 2013, 04:04:26 pm
If there's Nitori, I want Suwako and Kanako, or just Sanae.
Post by: Kerigis on May 20, 2013, 04:05:42 pm
Hi, I just logged in to type that I fell in love with Miko's new appearance. :*
Just kidding. This game is getting me really excited.
It is Kanako. She has her distinguish hairband.
A quick translation of her profile states it.
I'm suprised how one screen can wipe away almost the whole MoF crew. Only Momiji and Hina are left.
Fingers crossed for logic-defying Mokou and Kaguya...
Post by: Tamashii Kanjou on May 20, 2013, 04:11:30 pm
With Nitori being announced, and the possibility of Sanae, Kanako, and Suwako not being playable at all, pretty much means all bets are off from this point onwards.
Nitori's Solid Snake (Brawl) move certainly pleased me. Will wait to see why she is getting involved before I air any other comment. (Translation please~ XD )
On the translation note, I've been providing the UK group (on FB) links to our translations on here when new characters have been announced. Hope you don't mind; just doing my best to keep each community happy and informed. ^^
I say again, have they confirmed that being in the background means you won't be playable? Not Having Kanako in is a big surprise to me.... but maybe Kanako will call upon Okuu to fight for her ;)
Speaking of which, where's my translations of her profile and the blog post? Just saying.
As much I would like to see Momiji in the game, I really doubt that will be th case. I think Hatate might have better chance of appearing.
Unless, Kanako somehow managed to convince Nitori to fight for her, but I highly doubt it.
Only Momiji and Hina are left.
Playable Momiji would be AWESOME!
I really hope this happens now, and Hina would be awesome too. :derp:
Post by: Limian on May 20, 2013, 04:18:51 pm
I was in the "background characters won't be playable" camp beforehand, but with Kanako and Sanae in the background, I'm starting to believe that that isn't true. Getting my hopes for Shou and Seiga back up again.
At the same time, Nitori's appearance could point to other random playable characters. Like, say, Orin? :D
Well jeez, that just threw out every single idea I had...
Nitori looks really fun to play, I guess we'll be seeing some SA characters then considering their absense so far.
I'd like to think it won't be Okuu just cause she appeared in hiso already, and I could really see rin working as a character.
Come to think of it Alice has been notably absent too considering how often she appears in the series.
Quote from: Limian on May 20, 2013, 04:18:51 pm
Orin would be cool, throwing people into her cart. Some other random characters I would like are Yuuka, Mamizou, Kasen, Tenshi(a friend of mine REALLY wants her in) and Mami(what a twist :p ) But I am expecting someone new to the series as well.
We haven't seen Alice yet have we? Some of my friends are expecting Alice in the game.
If Orin would appear, I think her ability would allow her to summon zombie fairies. Question of how they would behave is up to you (I personally think they should work like Dizzy's ice fishes or Mu's Stein Gunners)
It is honestly a pleasure reading this thread today.
The shitstorms that have emerged at this announcement in other places (be it about gameplay, thrown-off predictions, the artwork) is getting a bit too much for my tastes...
I for myself am very content with the update, though it does provoke questions about BG character's playability. If Moriya does show up after all, anything else could be possible as well. I just don't know what is going to happen next.
What if Nitori`s True Religion is Pantheist?
So she can stop the great religion wars and tell everyone that Religions were corrupt while Pantheism is the only True Religion?
Albert Einstein`s Religion is Pantheist.
Okay... Here is my suggestion for the missing characters:
Meiling, Kasen, Mamizou and Alice.
Of course they might introduce some new character that is neither the final boss nor the (optional) midboss...
Nitori, woah that's quite a surprise, didn't expect her at all, I think I found my main.
I wanted Kanako really badly, but I'll take it.
Nitori on a quest to destroy religions.
I honestly don't know of other touhou forums other then this one, haha. People really are getting pissed about this? From what I have seen, this game will be awesome, and the most unique fighter I have seen. I really do hope it grows and people play it here.
I think we need to look for tommorows update. that will show us for sure if we will get a Moriya or not. they have seeming posting the characters as groups together, so if we are getting Kanako, Sanae, or Suwaka, we will know by tommorow, since I am sure Nitori is fighting along side Kanako. Remember, Kanako supports science and tech, which nitori loves, so why wouldn't she side with her?
She could be playable; at this point, anything is possible. :D
We're still missing the Forest of Magic stage, after all... Which, could be either Alice's or Mamizou's stage (according to SoPM, Mami apparently hangs around there).
Some people don't really like the idea of seeing Nitori instead of one of the Moriya's in this update. And having without exception all of the Moriya's in one screenshot in the back of a stage must be a hard punch in their face.
I am just anxious to see what comes next. With Nitori's reveal, I am starting to think everything could happen now.
Rumia, Minoriko pls <3
Maybe the guy means othr places, not just forums. For example, Dustloop has thread for HM, but I am pretty much only person there who keeps the thread updated. So places like 4chan might be where the shitstorms ar coming from.
Wow. Nitori. In a game about showing off in front of people. The shy kappa wants some friends? Also, funny that an anti-religious character will still use the "balance between three religions" mechanic.
Thinking a bit, it makes some sense that Moriya cast doesn't take part in the whole thing if we suppose that they may have found their followers in mountain youkai communities. Or they could have nudged them into taking part just to mess with everyone :V In that case, expecting someone from SA messing things up further.
I want some beam specials with her.
Hell, make her fucking Iron Man (but not MvC3 garbage Iron Man. MvC2 will suffice)
Abridged version of 'From Tasofro's blog'
Nitori is less affected by the 'Characters are gradually pulled to the center' mechanic, so it is easier to maintain height difference.
To make use of this property, her weak shots move in a parabola, and her strong shots shoot up and down, and she can't shoot directly in front of her.
She has a 999 battery count for her skills and shots.
While it lasts, spirit consumption is low. But when it runs out, attacks might weaken, become unusable, and/or use more spirit.
Tasofro also mentions that Nitori has lots of skills with ZUN's naming sense. (The skill in the screenshot is called 'Photon Torpedo')
Of course, This isn't the whole post.
I think ZUNnaming is awesome.
I'm still quite sure that Nitori has her battery refilled for the next round.
I also except someone like Rin or Koishi.
This has to be a Moriya Shrine conspiracy ! So it makes for Kanako to just watch the fights.
haha, look what some people on Pixiv have posted about Nitori
Her energy is refilled between rounds ("not refilled until the round ends").
Orin's special mechanic is that you have to win fifteen rounds to beat her. :V
Or Arakune's bugs maybe?
Edit: Oh yeah, and I'd say Utsuho's odds just went waaaay up.
Or down as aside from Reimu and Marisa, other characters have never been playable
before (okay, Nitori was Marisas support in SA, but she hasn't been playable alone).
- I wake up after crashing waiting for my external harddrive to format
- "Let's check out Tasofro blog"
- Nitori
- ね!?
As much as I want Okuu, you do raise a good point. Still, I think she has a decent chance, not great, but decent.
If we go with the logic people have that being in background means not playable, then the SA members left are Bucket girl, Yamane, Parsee, Satori, Orin, Okuu, and Koshi. Of those, I think the sisters, Orin, and Okuu have the best chance.
If they bring Shou to HM I'll pchunn~
How will I dodge that CURVY LAZARZ!?
I think the sisters, Orin, and Okuu have the best chance.
Yeah... Koishi and Satori as tag team would be interesting.
Anyway, now I am waiting with great anticipation who will be revealed tomorrow.
Nitori attacks like a Donkey Kong 3 Boss :P
A tag team of the sisters would be pretty cool. Maybe give them some sort of Ice climbers like Mechanic? As for why they are fighting... that I wonder... I mean, Maybe they want to be outside again and supporting Kanako is the way? Personally, I see Okuu being the best choice for Kanako's support... but Orin would be nice.
I am looking forward to tommorow as well. Anything is possible. Right now though, I am waiting for the Nitori fanart to appear from Pixiv
Yamame is popular underground, too, while Satori (not Koishi) is hated. Just saying.
stop giving me false hope.
stop making me pray
Post by: Firestorm29 on May 20, 2013, 05:31:08 pm
I've been lurking this thread more or less the last few days, did a double take with Nitori showing up as playable. While I'd love to see Satori as playable, I can't really see it happening since it seems like she more prefers to be down in her mansion and most others prefer her being down there. :/
Okuu reappearing on the other hand, I can see that being a slight possibility. Cape Warfare!
Well, seems like the Salty Kanako pictures are coming in, even though I think she still has a chance.
Satori is hated because people fear what she could do. I don't think she WANTS to be down there...
Quote from: Firestorm29 on May 20, 2013, 05:31:08 pm
Yeah that is true. It feels liek Satori doesn't want to live the prison she made for herself. A sad fate.
But yes. We need a cape battle. And if Okuu was in, I hope she is like this fake screen shot.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/02a284dff2a4395c56525d0e44a9a200/tumblr_mh071gJxti1s1427ro1_1280.jpg)
Say, say, aren't we forgetting about another wild and horned hermit?
*Silently hopes for Tenshi*
Even if she appears with Iku as a background character only, I'll be happy. :V
What if all the non-playable Windows characters appear in the background?
Currently I am thinking that it might be the case.
......well now, I am very VERY surprised. Actually kinda nice though. Up until this point, I had given up completely on any curve balls.
Alice is the mid-boss acting on behalf of her master Mima (who became Alice's master in her ending to that extra stage), who's the final boss.
Quote from: iK on May 20, 2013, 05:45:42 pm
I do think Kasen has a very high chance. SHe is the main character of the manga, and she seems pretty tied to all this as well.
I see tenshi jumping in just because she can.
Oh god. I just imagined a stage that has a bunch of PC-98 characters, just to troll the fanbase. Like Mima in the background, yet she never appears in any of the main games.
Haha, if only. I would like PC-98 characters to appear, just to keep expanding the world.
Yamame is popular underground, too
Don't you dare. My heart can only take so much excitement before it explodes.
Quote from: Kilgamayan on May 20, 2013, 05:53:11 pm
:ohdear:
Post by: nintendonut888 on May 20, 2013, 06:02:53 pm
That's actually a neat idea and sounds like something ZUN would do. Not expecting it at all, but hey, if other people can hope...
Also Miko, you're kinda looking villainous there. Reminds me of another mad king... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV6OzAhO8S4)
Well, It took them long enough to make this picture, haha
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/0a3b9e8f4847913e5cc1a4e9f80be929/tumblr_mn3zfzVb7G1rmvijso1_500.jpg)
Guys, I think that the reason Nitori is in 13.5 is because Tasfro couldn't put her in 12.3 due to lack of time, so they're making up for lost potential by putting her in this one.
Also, if one recalls that there can be mirror matches in the games, then it can be suspected that the "character in background = not playable" theory is false, if only for that reason.
Hell, gods like Kanako and Suwako can divide themselves infinitely in canon, so Tasfro don't need to alter squat for who's in the background.
Basically, my thought is this:
If Reimu vs. Reimu is possible, then it's possible for playable character to be a background character at the same time. I can imagine a Reimu vs. Reimu match at Hakurei Shrine, with a Reimu in the background either watching the match, or being annoyed with everyone else. In other words, if there can be two Reimus, why not three?
While that does make sense, mirror matches are a fact of fighting games, while Tasofro has to make the conscious decision to put a character in the background and there's not a great reason for them to do that if the character is elsewhere in the game. It's certainly not impossible (other games do it sometimes), but we haven't seen anything so far to suggest it will be that way. If tomorrow's preview is Sanae or Kanako though, everybody's guesses will go right out the window. :D
"One of the kappa carries with them a culture of hating religion." There's some weird english here but does this mean that Nitori is unique in her hatred of religion or is hating religion part of kappa culture. The latter seems unlikely since it would be like saying "This one member of a group has a trait shared by the entire group" which is redundant.
@Kirin no Sora:
The way I see it, the difference between Reimu vs. Reimu and Reimu in the background when Reimu is fighting, is that one is an accepted loss for sake of sensible game play, and the other is simply avoidable. Its a fighting game and characters should be able to fight themselves, but having background characters is just fancy.
As for Kanako and Suwako appearing in both a fight and in the background, while I understand the gods can split themselves, I just don't see it being displayed so blatantly. While I'm not sure how much of an issue this is, if gods could actually split themselves indefinitely, then they could do ridiculous things with sheer numbers, but they don't and it would be stupid if they could.
This was a shock! Hoping Nitori gets some cloaking move.
That does make it sound like it's just her, but the language is weird either way.
It would be pretty funny if playable Kanako caused dozens and dozen of audience Kanakos to appear in the background.
I see what you are getting at. Still, I think from a story standing that would look odd. And any game that had a character in a background and playable, they removed that character from the background if that person was on that stage. Still, I think that even if they didn't do that, it wouldn't bother me much.
Quote from: HawFlakes on May 20, 2013, 06:53:01 pm
I would be surprised if she didn't have one. I imagine it may use up a lot of her energy though to make it balanced.
Not as scary as the thought of dozens of Hinafaces in the audience. She's also a Goddess, after all. :D
To be honest, I don't get the thing with "kappas hating religion". I mean, were they like "We hate religion. So we will give our faith to couple of gods." WHen Moriyas came into the Youkai Mountain? Doesn't really add up. I think ZUN just wants Nitori have as many bad traits to her as possible in sense.
For the record, when it talks about gods splitting themselves infinitely it's talking about their spirit. Splitting their spirit doesn't give them the ability to create multiple bodies. It's basically the explanation for how gods can be enshrined in more than one place at the same time. Now, since they're gods it's not necessarily hard for them to possess like, a stick, and turn that stick into a fully functional humanoid body, but it's also the case that not all bodies are compatible. Kanako apparently had to choose the most suitable Hell Crow to put Yatagarasu into, after all.
Calling it now, full version of the game replaces every single audience character with Hina. Also, Hina will appear in the playable cast three times, as Hina, vampire Hina, and Hina/mecha Hina duo.
I keep saying Touhou needs villains. If ZUN keeps it up maybe Nitori can be Touhou Darth Vader by 2020.
The 4koma guys is real? I mean really? :V
Hating religion isn't the same thing as hating gods. I mean, you can acknowledge that gods are real but don't think they deserve worship, even if they're nice enough folks on their own. The kappa seem to be in a trading relationship with Moriya, and part of those trades involve "faith", but that doesn't mean they worship her. They can easily think of her as a business partner who has something they want and wants something they have.
It's even noted in one of the MoF profiles that the youkai "worship" consists mostly of partying at the shrine. They don't really take Kanako seriously.
If it's just a matter of the move making her invisible it probably won't be a big deal. That's been a move in fighting games before and it's rarely that usable, much less game breaking. And given that her camouflage is actually just a force field in Subterranean Animism I wouldn't be surprised to see a move called Optical Camouflage that just raises her defense.
Post by: warpshadow on May 20, 2013, 07:51:33 pm
Wow my favorite Touhou character is in the game now. This double makes up for Shou not being playable.
Science-wielding religion-hating pigtails.
I love you Nitori.
Did the kappa give their faith to the Moriya shrine though? I'm not sure that's the case.
I would love to have a conversation about this at some point. After this thread (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,14486.0.html), I was under the impression that making multiple bodies was exactly what Gods can do.
@Clarste: What is religion other then worshiping?
Oh boy imagine all the trouble Nitori will find herself into if she hits that bar instead.
Quote from: Linnah on May 20, 2013, 07:59:14 pm
Comedy mechanic: Nitori loses large chunks of faith whenever she shoots someone in the background.
Priests, mostly. People often make a distinction between the spiritual side of things and the organization side of things. It's one thing to have faith in a higher power, it's another thing to have faith in mortal priests as representatives of a higher power. But that's not the point I was making. I don't think the kappa worship Moriya at all, they just do business with them.
Regarding splitting, I got most of it from SSiB chapter 6, which is I believe the first place it's mentioned. They make a clear distinction between body and spirit there (with the implication that most gods don't even have bodies in the first place), but I'll admit that maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.
Would she get a 100% popularity refill then if she shoots Aya instead? :V
And if she hits one of the generic kappas they lock her out of the kappacave so she can't get to the charging station for her backpack of tricks and she has to drop out of the religious war.
Post by: Phlegeth on May 20, 2013, 09:12:48 pm
Nitori: I find your lack of faith intriguing.
Also Kappa Death Star, best shmup level ever?
@Clarste: I'm not sure what I was going at with that question.
I think I see your point. So you do you think that part of the business between Kanako and the Kappa involves Kanako doing things in return for faith (whatever faith is)? If that's the case then it seems like the Kappa are members of the Moriya religion, and I don't think they are.
Kanako supports the technological development of Gensokyo, that's enough reason for the kappa to support her. They probably don't give a shit about her shrine.
Well, if Kanako's becoming a god of technology, who would be giving her faith if not the kappa? They're the only ones who care.
Just got home, and suddenly there's like five new pages on this thread. All about Nitori. Just... wow.
Also, yeah, it seems strange seeing all of the Moriyas there. Again, though, the ability to infinitely split oneself is still in play (although I honestly hope Kanako's not playable).
Cyborg Kanako. DO IT ZUN!
Do we know how Reimu and Marisa feel about technology? Reimu is lazy, so I bet she would like modern conveniences. And Marisa likes stockpiling esoteric crap, so I imagine she would love to be able to add boxes of weird foreign outlet adapters and assorted cables to her museum house. The only direct reference to this I can think of is the outside world in Reimu's imagination in Wild And Horned Hermit 14, where she imagines it as a mess of skyscrapers, neon signs, and what looks like a tripod from War Of The Worlds, seemingly implying that she thinks of it as confusing and scary.
Welp, with Nitori's announcement, guess Hatate's not making it in. I mean, her stage will undoubtedly have Hatate in the background: I see Aya in there. Such a shame, too: Hatate desperately needed the screentime. And I still can't get over Shou not being playable. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTNP792ykYM)
*prepares flame shield*
Maybe you should write a letter to Tasofro and ZUN, telling them you'll never buy their games ever again.
Post by: Critz on May 21, 2013, 12:01:06 am
Well, the intro scroll clearly depicts Shou among Reimu, Futo, Miko, Unzan, Byakuren and a kappa, all playable so far. Who knows, maybe she will appear next and in turn debunk the whole background character = not playable theory, allowing Moriyas to appear? All those onis would also imply either Suika, Yuugi or possibly Kasen.
Just before today's reveal I was actually expecting Tenshi. I had a hunch that some non-religious characters would appear to spice up the roster, and it's only fair to add the previous final boss, since Suika appeared in SWR. Plus I figured a celestial would be at least semi-involved in religious fight. Though this kind of wild card I did not expect.
A. Reimu
B. Marisa
C. Ichirin
4. Nitori
And 5 to 6 slots to go...
The list:
Reisen II
Well this development throws things into complete chaos...
I'm sure tons of people care, about something that will make their lives easier. However, consider that faith is belief in something without proper proof. I would like to think that the Kappa are far too practical, to have faith in something.
Post by: Sagus on May 21, 2013, 01:56:44 am
Hm, in 12.3, Suwako says, after a mirror match, "Gods can split themselves infinitely~"; also, in SoPM, her profile says that she often appears in the form of a frog when a portion of her spirit is enshrined somewhere else. They probably can make new bodies wherever a part of their spirit is; most probably just don't bother.
Post by: N-Forza on May 21, 2013, 01:57:57 am
Really, no one's translated her blurb yet? You're slipping, cuc. :P
The River's Handyman - Nitori Kawashiro
The sounds of revelry filled the village.
Influential players fought in the streets,
bringing excitement to the onlookers.
This stimulation and enthusiasm would create converts.
The religion leaders planned to take full advantage of this.
But there was a small band of kappa who did not like religion.
Skill name: Mystic Water Energy
Super Attack: Super Scope 3D
Two "Shinto" (Reimu and Marisa), Two Buddhist (Ichirin and Byakuren), Two Taoists (Futo and Lady Toyosatomimi) and One Not-Religious-Involved (Nitori)
I bet the next girl will be another that barely has any inclination to religion. According to Aya Reiko's list, the most likely choices are (To me):
Mystia (I don't recall seeing her, and could use this popularity thing to promote her band whose name I cant'recall right now)
Hina (The Depressive Atmosphere at the Village could help her to gather curses or something.)
Tenshi (Just because she can)
Koishi (Her being mentioned by Byakuren on SoPM makes her highly likely, plus, she's Koishi :V)
Hatate (We saw Aya... Hatate is yet to be seen)
Mamizou (Resurrected Taoist Vs. Foreign Tanuki Round 2?)
I would say that that is absolutely not the definition of faith being used here. Otherwise the gods might be a bit reluctant to introduce themselves so casually.
Quote from: Sagus on May 21, 2013, 01:56:44 am
Did you actually read SSiB chapter 6? Because they make a pretty big deal of it.
Quote from: Teff007 on May 21, 2013, 02:00:35 am
Please remind me how Marisa is a Shinto again? I thought she was allied with the human village, though not necessarily by religion (and at any rate she's Reimu's most frequent pal so of COURSE she's going to get involved. :V )
I would say that that is absolutely not the definition of faith being used here.
Yeah, the Gensokyo concept of "faith" is belief makes them real, or keeps them real, anyway. So to have faith sustains the existence of the gods.
A Mystia/Kyouko duo character would be the. Best. Possible. Thing.
Post by: Kingault on May 21, 2013, 02:16:40 am
Quote from: N-Forza on May 21, 2013, 01:57:57 am
Solid SNES Nitori gets my full support freshly squeezed.
Yes, I did. In that chapter, Reimu says that gods that have bodies can also infinitely divide their spirit, and that "the relationship between a god's body and spirit is kind of like with a vengeful spirit, it can divide as much as they want, but the original stays the same", which I'll admit I didn't understand very well, but I suppose that it can simply mean that they can't divide their physical body. It doesn't really say if separated portions of their spirit can't take a body of their own. And considering that in Hisoutensoko Suwako splits herself so she can fight herself, and SoPM says that she can take the shape of a frog wherever a portion of her spirit is enshrined... I don't think it's an erroneous affirmation to say that gods can create bodies from separeted portions of their spirit.
Well, that's the only definition I know. I have no trouble with it though. Just because you have poof that something is true, doesn't mean you don't have faith.
I just read chapter 6 and it mostly talks about splitting the spirit. In talking about kanako, Reimu says: "A god that has a body can still split their spirit. The relationship between a god's body and spirit is kind of like with a vengeful spirit. It can divide as much as they want, but the original stays the same.". I'll be honest, I'm not entirely sure what that means. However, if you have something, say a body, and split of a part of it but then have it be the same, it sounds like you just made something of nothing.
Post by: Cadmas on May 21, 2013, 02:23:44 am
This about the only ones I can see getting in.
Hina: "I'm a Goddess! What of it? HEXXXXXX!"
Momiji: "Tengu rights! Tengu rights!"
Tenshi: "Wonder what those fools on the surface are up to."
Iku: "I'm just here to tag along with Tenshi."
Utsuho: "Help Lady Kanako."
Satori: "Has anyone seen my bird?"
Koishi: "Hi, I'm Koishi! Let me fire hearts at you!"
"A god that has a body can still split their spirit." IE: it doesn't mention their body. Maybe this is me reading too much into it, but to me this implies that their bodies are not being split. Of course, as gods their bodies can look like whatever they want, and if they possess a frog or something there's no reason they can't transform it into something like their original body. But they still have to possess something that's already in existence. "Like a vengeful spirit" also implies possession. And that's what's happening with Reimu's summon magic or Utsuho's whole deal.
Gods are, for the most part, spiritual beings without bodies. Once they are given a name they "lose the ability to exist in anything". Therefore they can only exist in certain things. Shamans, shrines, items with compatible traits... it's not necessarily hard to find these containers, but they need containers. That's how I read it anyway.
Post by: Jana on May 21, 2013, 02:36:53 am
So are Nitori and this "small band" more like a guerrilla group, rather than a representation of the Kappa overall? Hm.
Like I said, it doesn't mention their bodies in that quote, but there's no reason to believe their divided spirit can't make a body on it's own. SoPM doesn't say that Suwako possess a frog, it says she takes the form of one. Also, although Reimu herself says that her summoning is basically the god using her body, and that her personality becomes the god's... it simply isn't that that happens when gods are summoned; when Reimu summoned the gods that allowed the ship to go to the moon, she kept her own personality (she even comments that the gods think that the journey is getting boring), and some (http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_bougetsushou_silent_sinner_in_blue/v01/c015/23.html)of (http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_bougetsushou_silent_sinner_in_blue/v01/c018/11.html) the (http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_bougetsushou_silent_sinner_in_blue/v01/c016/22.html) gods (http://mangafox.me/manga/touhou_bougetsushou_silent_sinner_in_blue/v01/c016/27.html) that Yorihime called appeared there on separate, physical bodies; they didn't possess her (well, one did, but after appearing as a separate entity). So... I dunno.
That's a pretty interesting reading.
It does brings the question of what gods with bodies are, though. Are they gods that possessed something, shaped it the way they wanted, and just decided to never leave?
>You are slipping, cuc.
Well, the update came when I was already in bed, and I'm working at a place without an internet connection this week. My phone and its default text editor are both crappy, making text editing inconvenient.
Post by: Hinacle on May 21, 2013, 03:57:27 am
Watch the next characters that are revealed have next to nothing to do with religion.
Post by: ToyoRai on May 21, 2013, 04:02:04 am
Let's talka bout something what I just though up about the game and that would be stage music.
The one what comes in mind the most if waht would the backgrpund theme be for the Youkai Mountain Hotsprings (I just call that stage that)? Some would say that Candid Friend would be as the stage is Nitori's, but I think The Gensokyo the Gods Loved would fit better.
Quote from: Hinacle on May 21, 2013, 03:57:27 am
Yuuka would be an excellent melee character.
The stage is Genbu Ravine/Marsh, not a new area.
I'll bet The Gensokyo The Gods Loved is Nitori's theme. I could very well be wrong, though.
I've also grown more accepting to the fact that Shou's not playable. Not to get off topic, but it's like I was in Persona 4 and had just accepted my Shadow. Now, gaze upon Bishamonten, my new Persona, and despair! >:D
Speculation time. My guesses for the other playable characters are Momiji, Orin, and Koishi. That way we'd have two characters each from the four games starting from th10. Nitori/Momiji from th10, Orin/Koishi from th11, Ichirin/Byakuren from th12, and Futo/Miko from th13. My reasoning for Momiji is that I think the tengu deserve some sort of representation, and with Aya out I feel like Momiji is the only one left. (I personally don't expect Hatate to show up, but I guess if we're thinking tengu then she's another possibility.) Orin is particularly infamous in the Human Village for being the kasha that hangs around and steals corpses, and Koishi has ties to the Myouren Temple as shown in Symposium of Post-Mysticism, so I think they're likelier than anyone else from th11. Either way I'm excited to see who will be revealed next.
My bets are on Hatate, though it's entirely possible she won't make it considering ZUN doesn't care about the poor tengu. Nonetheless, if she makes it in, I will undoubtedly main her. Aya had her time in the sun; Hatate needs the screentime so badly it's not even funny.
Post by: MewMewHeart on May 21, 2013, 04:50:31 am
I think that either, Tenshi, Hatate, Momiji, Hina, Koishi, Satori, Flandre :colonveeplusalpha:, or probably Mamizou.
I'm mostly banking on Tenshi or Hatate at the moment, however the wild cards I think tasofro might throw in would be either Koishi, Mamizou, Flandre, or Momiji.
Momiji, Orin and Akyuu. I'm going for the long shot.
Which I guess is another way of saying I have no clue. Nitori surprised me a lot.
Post by: zferolie on May 21, 2013, 05:19:45 am
We are guessing? Well I am gonna have lists: one if background means not playable, and one that means they still could be playable.
BG = not playable:
Okuu
Mima(My lol vote)
BG could still mean Playable:
Yuugi
The lists are slighty longer then the 5-6 people are saying are left, because I had trouble limiting them down.
Aww so much for Sanae being a shoo-in XP Now I really hope Alice and Flandre get something in this, I mained Alice in the previous 2 games and played Aya and Remilia fairly often, now it seems I may play Futo for playstyle, and Miko because she's Miko.
my last six (provided we're only getting 6 more, or provided we're even getting 6 more) would be
3.Hatate
4.Satori
5.Kasen
6.New Character
EXTRA. Miko's cape because it can be it's own character XP
Honestly the fact that we've seen 6 or so stages now, not one of them including an announced playable character pretty much rules out that theory already.
I mean would they really code that for just 2 or so characters?
Post by: aListers on May 21, 2013, 06:45:15 am
If my memory serves me right then there was a PC-98 character who was a scientist. It's a far fetched idea but you never know...
Post by: Semont on May 21, 2013, 06:52:47 am
(http://en.touhouwiki.net/images/0/0e/HM_Intro_sequence.jpg)
Well, so far all the confirmed characters have been referenced in the intro image.
Reimu is the shrine maiden, Byakuren under the roof, Miko and Futo together on the bottom left, a literal Kappa by the river, Unzan could be represented by the clouds with the face next to the shrine maiden.
By that logic, that should be Shou should also be a playable character.
There's a serpent/dragon on the top left off to the mountains. Kansen owns a dragon. There's also a hermit on the bottom of the image in the mountains. Maybe it's her time to shine in a game?
Next to Futo, there's also a spirit with a scarf and a notable head ornament around it's head whose appearance (aside from it's obvious masculinity) resembles Seiga.
Off to the right next to the Kappa and further up the river, there's also wisps with trailing tails. Could it be referring to Youmu?
Under the yellow cloud there's a strange youkai, Shou is also fighting a straight youkai as well. I'm not sure what they could represent.
In the crowd of dancing humans near the centre, there's a long haired girl with a red kimono. Could that be Kaguya?
Well it shouldn't be too soon till we see the next revealed character.
Well, I suppose we have more credence to the whole "Nitori looking down at others" thing.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img545/9028/chara08.jpg)
Quote from: tfwnoform on May 21, 2013, 07:23:48 am
I want to believe...
Post by: Rei Scarlette on May 21, 2013, 07:41:34 am
That would be nice, but the differences from other character images are immediately obvious to me. :ohdear:
I'll just have to keep waiting and see if it really happens. Though, I'm definitely liking what has been revealed so far.
I'm going with my bets on Kasen, a member of the underground, and the mystery gemcase character as the remaining characters myself.
Let's also look at the areas visited:
(Clouds clouds clouds)
/Genbu Marsh\
Human Village/Myouren Temple/Spirit Mausoleum/Presumably new Daoist area
\_______Hakurei Shrine
I really wish for Parsee to get jealous of all the people having fun with fighting and deciding to join them in the playable roster ;-;
Post by: Yaersulf on May 21, 2013, 08:23:40 am
Quote from: Semont on May 21, 2013, 06:52:47 am
Under the yellow cloud there's a strange youkai
Holy shit, that's a hakutaku. Was Keine on the human village stage? Because this could means she's going to be playable. Which would make sense as a representative of the human village in a conflict revolving around them.
Quote from: Yaersulf on May 21, 2013, 08:23:40 am
She's there at the village.
I've had someone tell me that the four demon's attacking humans were to represent the four devas.
Suika, Yuugi, possibly Kansen and the forth one. Maybe it's the character that's silhouetted?
There are also flame-like floating objects that surround them that resembles the floating objects that appear around the silhouetted character as well.
I personally do not think that characters have to be part of the religious conflict to appear in this game. Which is why I did not rule out either Rumia or Yuuka. This is mainly because for Yuuka, she is the only character in the PoFV cast that is not in the background.
For Rumia, the odds are less likely, because well, fighting game characters in story mode do not have characters that are "weak". Hisoutensoku being the exception in the sense that it wasn't really an incident, but just characters wandering around. This is my reasoning for why Meiling is unplayable in both Immaterial and Missing Power and Scarlet Weather Rhapsody story mode.
The Watatsuki sisters, I do not think is likely at all, because I don't see why they would appear in Gensokyo.
Reimu is a Shinto shrine maiden, but she doesn't fight for Shinto. Her affliation is the same as Marisa, neutral.
If you go by that, being in the background does not mean unplayable, which is a possibility, then, any character is playable.
But right now, if they are playble, they do not appear in the background, which is why lots of people take this stance. That said, none of the playable characters appear as a background character, even if they should in some stages.
Also the more surprising part is that the Moriyas look like they are not playable, assuming you take the stance that BG=unplayable. That means the roster just opened up for other characters.
I would like to see Akyuu as a playable. I have hope, because she has yet appear and she did not appear in the Human Village or Byakuren's temple, where I expect her to appear. But since she travels quite a bit, she might appear anywhere, including the final boss's stage.
Got some work to take care off so haven't got the time to post here.
For the announcement, wow, Nitori is a really nice surprise, and she's practically Solid Snake too! I've never played Brawl but I really loved the Metal Gear series, especially those featuring him. I'll definitely try to play her sometimes.
As for Kanako, it's quite a bummer that we didn't get to play as her, would've been my second if she were in. Oh well, Nitori is pretty nice as it is so it's alright I guess. Though I see most people(not here apparently) are enraged because Sanae isn't playable since this is potentially the last game where she's likely to be in for a while. Though I can be wrong, it's all up to ZUN anyway.
Personally, if they're going to have someone from SA, as much as I want it to be Okuu(teaming up with Nitori, for SCIENCE!) and the fact that she does have a Shinto god in her, it would be nice if they add Koishi. The reason is mainly because I want to see how Gpop and other fans of her will react to it, it would be nice to see them going nuts over her. I'm sure he'll ditch Reimu and main her in no time.
And of course, she's mentioned in SoPM by Byakuren and it would be nice if she'll back them up. I like to think that aside from the two main fighter from each faith, there's one more outside the group that supports them.
Well, that's just my opinion, we'll see in 3 hours if Unabara didn't "oversleep".
Updated for playable Koishi. Oh desire...
Koishi confirmed. Yessssss.
Post by: Lightseeker on May 21, 2013, 10:53:03 am
here's her portrait
(http://i.imgur.com/V4S1exM.jpg)
Those eyes are downright nightmare fuel
http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/data/upfile/74-1.jpg
(http://www.tasofro.net/cgi-bin/tasoblo/data/upfile/74-1.jpg)
Here's The Palace Of Earth Spirits
I swear whoever's deciding this roster now is doing so just to throw us off every time.
While SA was obvious Koishi was pretty much the last person I expected... and those eyes :o
This also rules out the latter of the SA cast, and Nitori's bag of tricks grows ever more entertaining.
This also rules out most of the SA cast, and Nitori's bag of tricks grows ever more entertaining.
It's the opposite for me, I actually thought she has the highest chance among all the characters from SA, as she occasionally visits the surface, as opposed to the rest who stay underground most of the time.
Yesterday I posted on the polish Touhou forum the idea, that the roster now might have something to do with the idea of ceoncealing one's identity and masquerading.
Nitori - optical camouflage
Koishi - almost impossible to see her.
I go for Mamizou as the next playable chara. Of course Nue won't fit, since we see her in the Palanquin Ship Stage. Also, why is it The Palace, and not, let's say, The Ancient City? Where is my Parsee? ;-;
You're still alive, Gpop9? Better start hyping.
Unfortunately, they said that she's last. Now they'll try to make some videos until Reitaisai. That's what I get at least.
Last Word might be translated as "Brie Blanc Rose Garden"
Somewhat... cheesy (YEAAAAAAAHHH!)
Quote from: Lightseeker on May 21, 2013, 10:53:03 am
Good think that I wanted to believe...
Seriously I didn't except Koishi to be a playable character but I must say that this is great.
Also Nitori is getting more and more awesome with that backpack of hers.
Anyway, hopefully we see Kasen and Mamizou as playable characters.
Post by: Edible on May 21, 2013, 11:13:19 am
(http://i.imgur.com/EDpeQlf.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NYnOmVg.jpg)
Oh, hooray.
Post by: trancehime on May 21, 2013, 11:13:59 am
Quote from: Malyszeq on May 21, 2013, 11:09:02 am
How about "Brambly" because that means "thorny..."
Anyway, the basic bio of Koishi: She lives her life with little in the way of hopes and dreams, and with this strange event coinciding with the upcoming battles, her life has only changed a little. She does not remember much, and in a crowd, she is not recognized at all.
That was really unexpected. Now I'm curious what her intentions are for participating in this fight.
Quote from: Quwanti on May 21, 2013, 11:14:41 am
It's Koishi, so she just kind of showed up.
(No, really.)
Hmmm... I have an idea for Koishi.
She has that whole love theme about her, right? How about Koishi found out about SM, and she wants to be loved and love everyone?
So she just goes out and engages in battles, because that's how it works, right? :getdown:
What if... Koishi is at the site all along, we just didn't realize it?
Quote from: Edible on May 21, 2013, 11:15:42 am
A better phrase would be "she had nothing better to do."
BTW, for those curious about Koishi's special ability - Super Reactionary Sense.
You can set an HP, HK or Special input on standby by inputting those commands and holding the last button or input. This makes Koishi's gauge start to glow (indicating to your opponent she has an attack held). If you know the correct timing of your opponent's attack, you can force the set attack to be launched at your opponent as a counter-attack. I think you can only set one attack or input at a time.
KOISHI HAS TURN PUNCH :getdown:
Post by: DSveno on May 21, 2013, 11:31:14 am
So, can I hope for Yuuka now?
Post by: Piranha on May 21, 2013, 11:34:08 am
SUDDENLY KOISHI
First Nitori, now this, Tasofro knows how to troll (in a positive way).
Quote from: DSveno on May 21, 2013, 11:31:14 am
If anything, this weakens the support for Yuuka because Koishi already ganked the flower motif.
They said Koishi is the last one to be announced, twice, according to friend who knows his Japanese.
This saddens me. Not to mention we still miss:
Probably some of them will apear in already announced stages, but it would be weird to see the rest al cranked up in one stage.
When i visit Tasofro site.
Why the images aren`t working?
when i refreshed the site, it says no data received and website is unavailable.
Is Koishi a cult leader for dead spirits yet?
Ohai Koishi. Fancy seeing you here.
I knew that after revealing Nitori Tasofro wanted to screw with all of us even more. :V
Also, those eyes. :o
Post by: Kilgamayan on May 21, 2013, 11:52:11 am
Interesting. I will admit that Koishi is my least favorite Chireidenizen, but I see her inclusion here as an opportunity go revise my opinion of her. Hopefully there will now be more to her than what ZUN has presented by himself, since he's given literally nothing I like outside of her swirly skirt pattern.
Also, whoever was hoping for Kasen hasn't been paying to cuc's thread in TARC where he translates ZUN tweets.
Sorry Miko, but It's Koishi!!!! I Know who I am maining now!!!
Too much traffic, so the server can not handle it.
No more character updates?
Post by: N-Forza on May 21, 2013, 12:00:31 pm
The Imaginary Personality - Koishi Komeiji
She couldn't remember a thing.
Before she knew it, she had joined the crowd.
No one noticed her presence.
She lived her life day in and day out without any dreams or hopes.
But these unusual events caused her to throw down the gauntlet,
creating just a tiny change in her daily life.
Special Skill: Super Reflexes
When the command for heavy melee attacks, heavy projectile attacks and special moves are entered, the move is "set" and will activate will come out automatically when certain conditions are fulfilled such as enemy placement or passage of time. One of each of the three attacks can be set at a time, and an icon will indicate when a move is prepared.
Last Word: Brambly Rose Garden
Pulls the opponent into a storm of rose danmaku.
The roses are unblockable and the suction of the attack
will slowly draw them in.
If performed within a certain distance,
it will forcefully submerge enemies in a sea of roses.
By the way, Tasofro's Twitter account said she is the last (non-boss) character.
Okay, so no more character updates...
Wonder if that means there are only eight playable characters or if they want to reveal only eight... Hopefully the latter...
Dare I say?
To all the dreamers out there
#believe (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1ucOtJRvwE)
Character final line-up.
(http://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire1/cfa0edf9879a5648fdfd41cdcbfe12241369139083_full.jpg)
No more characters tomorrow, that last character will be revealed on Reitaisai 10.
Aww damn. I was hoping for at least 10 playable characters.
I really doubt there's only nine playable characters (including the final boss). That's even less than IaMP... They probably want to keep the rest a secret until release.
I uh, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Expect the worst to avoid that kind of disappointment. And if the worst is 9 characters, hey, at least that's better than Skullgirls managed.
Title: Re: Touhou 13.5 東方心