text:
President Obama is not just a racial trailblazer, but some say a religious pioneer as well. No president has ever shared his type of Christianity, historians say. Some say he may revive a form of Christianity that once dominated America.
The Gospel according to Obama
By John Blake, CNN
President Barack Obama was sharing a pulpit one day with a conservative Christian leader when a revealing exchange took place.
Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback, a conservative Christian who has taken public stands against abortion and same-sex marriage, had joined Obama for an AIDS summit. They were speaking before a conservative megachurch filled with white evangelicals.
When Brownback rose to speak, he joked that he had joined Obama earlier at an NAACP meeting where Obama was treated like Elvis and he was virtually ignored. Turning to Obama, a smiling Brownback said, "Welcome to my house!"
The audience exploded with laughter and applause. Obama rose, walked before the congregation and then declared:
"There is one thing I have to say, Sam. This is my house, too. This is God's house."
Historians may remember Obama as the nation's first black president, but he's also a religious pioneer. He's not only changed people's perception of who can be president, some scholars and pastors say, but he's also expanding the definition of who can be a Christian by challenging the religious right's domination of the national stage.
When Obama invoked Jesus to support same-sex marriage, framed health care as a moral imperative to care for "the least of these,'' and once urged people to read their Bible but just not literally, he was invoking another Christian tradition that once dominated American public life so much that it gave the nation its first megachurches, historians say.
"Barack Obama has referred to his faith more times than most presidents ever have, but for many it's the wrong kind of faith," says Jim Wallis, head of Sojourners, an evangelical activist group based in Washington that focuses on poverty and social justice issues.
"It is not the faith of the religious right. It's about things that they don't talk about. It's about how the Bible is full of God's clear instruction to care for the poor."
Some see a 'different' kind of Christian
Obama is a progressive Christian who blends the emotional fire of the African-American church, the ecumenical outlook of contemporary Protestantism, and the activism of the Social Gospel, a late 19th-century movement whose leaders faulted American churches for focusing too much on personal salvation while ignoring the conditions that led to pervasive poverty.
No other president has shared the hybrid faith that Obama displays, says Diana Butler Bass, a historian and author of "Christianity after Religion."
"The kind of faith that Obama articulates is not the sort of Christianity that's understood by the media or by a large swath of Christians in the U.S.," says Bass, a progressive Christian. "He's a different kind of Christian, and the media and the public awareness needs to reawaken to that fact."
Some Christians, however, still see Obama as the "other." He doesn't act or talk like other Christians, says the Rev. Gary Cass, a conservative Christian president of the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission.
"I just don't see or hear in his accounts the kind of things that I've heard as a minister for over 25 years coming from the mouths of people who have genuinely converted to Christianity," says Cass, pastor of Christ Church in San Diego.
Cass says he's never heard Obama say he's "born-again." There's no emotional conversion story to hang onto.
Obama talks about his faith and attends church, but Cass says that doesn't mean he's a Christian.
"Joining a church doesn't mean you're a Christian. "You can put me in the garage, but that doesn't turn me into a car."
The origins of Obama's faith
The suspicion about Obama's faith may seem odd at first because he's written and spoken so much about his spiritual evolution in his two autobiographies, "Dreams of my Father" and "The Audacity of Hope." Other books, like "The Faith of Obama" by Stephen Mansfield, also explore Obama's beliefs.
The 1925 "Monkey" trial of John Scopes, a high school biology teacher who taught evolution, drove fundamentalists underground, some say.
Mansfield says Obama is the first president who wasn't raised in a Christian home. Obama's mother was an atheist and his grandparents were religious skeptics (Obama's family has challenged the description of his mother as an atheist. Obama called her "the most spiritually awakened" person he'd ever known, and his sister called their mother an agnostic).
CNN's Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories
Mansfield called Obama's boyhood a "religious swirl. He was exposed to Catholicism, Islam, and strains of Hinduism and Buddhism while growing up in Indonesia during the 1960s.
"In our household, the Bible, the Koran and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology," Obama said in Mansfield's book. "On Easter or Christmas Day, my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the Chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites."
Obama became a Christian while he was a community organizer in Chicago. He joined a predominantly black United Church of Christ. The UCC became the first mainline Protestant denomination to officially support same-sex marriage in 2005.
Obama's faith showed many of the elements of a liberal Protestant church: an emphasis on the separation of church and state, religious tolerance and the refusal to embrace a literal reading of the Bible.
In a 2006 speech before a Sojourners meeting, Obama talked about his approach to the Bible:
"Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount – a passage that is so radical that it's doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application?"
When many people think of Obama's religious experience in Chicago, though, they cite his exposure to the angry sermons of the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and "black liberation theology," a movement that emerged in the late 1960s and blended the Social Gospel with the black power movement.
Bass, the church historian, says another black pastor shaped Obama's theology more: the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
He attended liberal Protestant seminaries where he learned about the Social Gospel's concern for the entire person, soul and body.
Obama has reached out to evangelical leaders like Rick Warren, seen here praying at Obama's inauguration, but many still doubt his faith.
King once wrote that "any religion that professes to be concerned about the souls of men and is not concerned about the slums that damn them, the economic conditions that strangle them …is a spiritually moribund religion awaiting burial."
But King and the black church also fused the Social Gospel with an emotional fervor missing from white Protestant churches, Bass says. Other presidents like Franklin Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson were influenced by the Social Gospel, but they weren't shaped by the black church.
"This is the first time we're hearing the Social Gospel from the perspective of the black church from the Oval Office. It makes it warmer, more emotive, more communal," Bass says. "There is less fear of linking the Social Gospel with the stories of the Bible, especially the stories of Exodus and Jesus' healings."
The emphasis on community uplift - not individual attainment - may strike some Americans as socialist. But the emphasis on community is part of King's "Beloved Community," Bass says.
King once wrote that all people are caught up in an "inescapable network of mutuality… I can never be what I ought to be until you are allowed to be what you ought to be."
"When I listen to Obama, I don't hear communism, I hear the Beloved Community," Bass says. "But a lot of white Americans don't hear that because they never sat in those churches and heard it over and over again. It's the whole theology that motivated MLK and the civil rights movement."
Obama is not a Christian, some think
For some, Obama's actions in the Oval Office seem to contradict Christianity.
Jesus was nonviolent. Obama has ramped up drone attacks in Afghanistan that have not only removed terrorists, but killed civilians.
The Bible talks about the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Obama invoked Jesus when he came out in support of same-sex marriage. "The thing at root that we think about is, not only Christ sacrificing himself on our behalf, but it's also the Golden Rule," Obama told ABC News during his announcement.
Jesus talked about helping the poor. But he never said anything about creating a massive health care law that taxed the rich to help the poor, some Christians argue.
But Wallis of Sojourners says Obama's push for health care was a supreme example of Christian faith.
A situation where 50 million Americans don't have health insurance is "a fundamental Christian problem," Wallis says.
"Health is such a Gospel issue. Jesus was involved in healing all the time, and to have some people excluded from health care because they lack wealth is a fundamental Christian contradiction."
Wallis has been one of the most persistent defenders of Obama's faith. But no matter how much Scripture he and others cite, doubts about Obama's faith have followed him throughout his political career.
Focus on the Family founder James Dobson once said that Obama distorted the traditional understanding of the Bible "to fit his own world, his own confused theology." The Rev. Franklin Graham, the son of Billy Graham, publicly questioned Obama's faith, then later apologized.
Conservative Christian books and websites are filled with stories of Obama allegedly trying to suppress the nation's Christian heritage.
The Rev. Steven Andrew, author of "Making a Strong Nation," says Obama is trying to change the national motto from "In God we Trust" to "Out of Many, One," and he's ordered the Pentagon to remove biblical verses from its daily report.
"That's the most serious thing someone can do to a nation, trying to separate a nation from God," he says. "He seems to be trying to change the Christian laws our Founding Fathers made."
Andrew says Obama is actually an enemy of Christianity. In his book, Andrew argues that the Founding Fathers were Christians who created a "covenant Christian nation" and calls for a "national repentance."
"I think he's an anti-Christ," Andrew says. Cass, of the Christian Anti-Defamation Commission, says Obama's emphasis on helping the poor through social justice isn't Christianity.
Christians who talk about "social justice" are often practicing "warmed-over Marxism," Cass says.
"Do I believe in caring for the poor and oppressed? Yes. But you don't do it along the lines of communistic redistributing."
Obama's support of same-sex marriage and abortion rights also disqualifies him from being a Christian, Cass says.
"It's the most pro-abortion administration in the history of America. On every social issue – the sanctity of life and of marriage between men and women – Obama is on the wrong side of every moral issue," he says.
He says a progressive Christian is a contradiction.
"No Christian says I believe in Jesus Christ and I reject the Bible," Cass says. "These progressives who say they're Christians are liars. They're using Christianity as a guise to advance their own agenda."
Cass says he doesn't know what Obama believes.
"He's conflicted," Cass says. "He has Muslim sympathies from his upbringing."
How progressive Christianity lost the public square
There was a time when Obama's brand of Christianity would have been understood by millions of Americans, historians say.
Obama along with first lady Michelle Obama and their daughters Malia and Sasha leave church after attending a Sunday prayer service.
The Social Gospel and progressive Protestantism dominated the American religious square from the end of the 19th century up to the 1960s. At times, the traditions blended together so seamlessly that it was hard to tell the difference.
The Social Gospel rose out of the excesses of the Gilded Age in the 1880s, when urban poverty spread across America as immigrants crammed into filthy slums to work long hours in unsafe conditions.
Walter Rauschenbusch, a Baptist pastor in a New York slum, urged the church to take "social sins" as seriously as they took individual vices. Churches began feeding the poor and fighting against other social ills.
"The notion that religious people should be about feeding the poor and helping the homeless is a carryover of the Social Gospel," says Charles Kammer, a religion professor at Wooster College in Ohio. The Social Gospel was adopted by many Protestant churches in the late 19th and early 20th century, says Bass, the church historian. Some of the Social Gospel churches grew popular because they provided the poor with everything from English classes to sewing instructions and basketball leagues.
"The first American megachurches were liberal, Social Gospel urban churches," Bass says.
The Social Gospel, though, sparked a backlash from a group of pastors during World War I. They were called fundamentalists. They published a pamphlet listing the "fundamentals of the faith:" Biblical inerrancy, the virgin birth, Adam and Eve.
But the fundamentalists lost the battle for public opinion during the "Scopes Monkey Trial" in 1925. John Scopes, a high school science teacher, was tried for violating a Tennessee law that prohibited the teaching of evolution.
Though Scopes lost, fundamentalist Christians were mocked in the press as "anti-intellectual rubes," and a number of states suspended pending legislation that would have made teaching evolution illegal, says David Felten, author of "Living the Questions: The Wisdom of Progressive Christianity."
The trial drove fundamentalists underground where they created a subculture, their own media networks, seminaries and megachurches, he says.
That subculture thrives today, Felten says, and has infiltrated the political arena. It has created an "alternative intellectual universe" that denies science, rational thought – and any beliefs that violate their definition of being a Christian, Felten says.
"They have millions of adherents who believe in a literal six day creation and a literal Adam and Eve – so it's not a stretch to believe that President Obama is a Kenyan-born secret Muslim bent on destroying the country," Felten says.
Progressive Christians eventually lost the messaging wars to this fundamentalist subculture, Bass says. Their nuanced view of faith couldn't compete with the "spiritual triumphalism" of conservatives.
"If you get up and say we're right and we have the truth, then you have a powerful public message," she says. "They have a theological advantage in the public discourse. It's comforting to have things clear, to have things black and white."
The result today is that the Protestant tradition that shapes much of Obama's Christianity is fading from public view.
The share of Protestant Christians in the United States has dropped below 50% of the population, according to a recent survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.
White mainline Protestants make up only 15% of the nation's population, the survey revealed. The study also found that the fastest growing "religious group" in the country is people who are not affiliated with any religion.
Another generation of Christians, though, may bring a new version of progressive Christianity back.
The lines between younger conservative Christians and progressives are blurring, says Marcia Pally, author of "The New Evangelicals: Expanding the Vision of the Common Good."
Pally spent six years traveling across America to interview evangelicals. She says her research revealed that more than 60% of young evangelicals support more governmental programs to aid the needy, as well as more emphasis on economic justice and environmental protection issues.
"What's interesting is that these values, associated with Obama and the black Protestant tradition are now also the values of a growing number of white evangelicals," she says.
Her perspective suggests that Obama's faith may be treated by history in two ways:
He could be seen as the last embodiment of a progressive version of Christianity that went obsolete.
Or he could be seen as a leader who helped resurrect a dying brand of Christianity for a new generation.
John Blake - CNN Writer
Filed under: 2012 Election • Atheism • Barack Obama • Belief • Bible • Books • Christianity • Church • Courts • Creationism • Culture & Science • Culture wars • Evolution • evolvution • Faith • Fundamentalism • Gay marriage • Gay rights • God • History • Homosexuality • Interfaith issues • Obama • Protestant • Religious liberty • Same-sex marriage • Schools • Science
Next entry »Pope names first Native American saint
« Previous entryQuarterback moves to trademark 'Tebowing'
Bruce Rubin
THE SOLE REASON I AM VOTING FOR OBAMA IS BECAUSE I LIKE THOSE BIG FLOPPY EARS HE HAS.
October 21, 2012 at 11:34 am |
Whatever floats your boat.
hehehe.. that's so funny... more proof we are evolved and not created... right...
So are those Irish ears or African ears?
RudyG
Hey Stein, the Nazis passed into the dustbin of history 70 years ago. Your words and thinking are past their prime!
ACTUALLY THEY REGROUPED IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND THEY ARE DISTORTING ISLAM
Obama is not anti-Christian, anti-muslim anti-anything. What faith he follows has, in my opinion, has nothing to do with his presidency. I have found him to be the most secular president I can think of. Which is exactly what this country needs. We are a free country of many peoples and many faiths. To label he USA as being founded on Christian beliefs is rediculous. We are NOT a Christian nation, we ARE a FREE nation.
GauisCaesar
Perhaps the study of the American origins has eluded you? Trust me, not everyone is that irresponsible to post something showing your absolute lack of understanding into history.
We are a free nation.
Stanley his mom was an anthropologist who like most Atheists have studied religions and myths. They like most Atheist have collections of books on all or most of the main myths to study. If you take the time to learn about the myths you will see a distinct pattern of mythic belief. and how these myths were created as crown control tools for leaders. Like most Atheist parents they educate their children on these myths, even take their kids to churches etc so the kids can see for themselves how they mythic control tools works. Others can also learn the paths of the myths into religions by reading The Masks of the Gods by Joseph Campbell and reading The Golden Bough by James Frazier. and also read Daniel Quinn's books starting with Ishmael. Religions were created as political tools to keep the few in power and control the masses. It is still used today as you can see that religious leaders demand christian belief for all the leaders in America. Yet they have no knowledge of the culture the myth was created on or from. Joseph Atwill has found the root of the christian myth.. Read Causer's Messiah to learn the details.
For those who missed this on p. 17 of the commentaries:
Putting the kibosh on this discussion in less than 10 seconds:
Only for the new members of this blog–
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Abraham i.e. the foundations of Judaism, Christianity and Islam are non-existent.
• As far as one knows or can tell, there was no Moses i.e the pillars of Judaism, Christianity and Islam have no strength of purpose.
• There was no Gabriel i.e. Islam fails as a religion. Christianity partially fails.
• There was no Easter i.e. Christianity completely fails as a religion.
• There was no Moroni i.e. Mormonism is nothing more than a business cult.
• Sacred/revered cows, monkey gods, castes, reincarnations and therefore Hinduism fails as a religion.
• Fat Buddhas here, skinny Buddhas there, reincarnated Buddhas everywhere makes for a no on Buddhism.
Added details available upon written request.
A quick search will put the kibosh on any other groups calling themselves a religion.
e.g. Taoism
"The origins of Taoism are unclear. Traditionally, Lao-tzu who lived in the sixth century is regarded as its founder. Its early philosophic foundations and its later beliefs and rituals are two completely different ways of life. Today (1982) Taoism claims 31,286,000 followers.
Legend says that Lao-tzu was immaculately conceived by a shooting star; carried in his mother's womb for eighty-two years; and born a full grown wise old man.
I THOUGHT THE SAME THING UNTIL I CONSUMED THE FRUIT OF FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE.
RichardSRussell
EVERY kind of Christian is considered the WRONG kind of Christian by some OTHER kind of Christian.
You know who could settle it all in a flash? Jesus! Why don't we all pipe down and wait for him to show up and answer the questions once and for all?
He "ain't" coming back.
To wit:
JC's family and friends had it right 2000 years ago ( Mark 3: 21 "And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.")
Said passage is one of the few judged to be authentic by most contemporary NT scholars. e.g. See Professor Ludemann's conclusion in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years, p. 24 and p. 694.
Actually, Jesus was a bit "touched". After all he thought he spoke to Satan, thought he changed water into wine, thought he raised Lazarus from the dead etc. In today's world, said Jesus would be declared legally insane.
Or did P, M, M, L and J simply make him into a first century magic-man via their epistles and gospels of semi-fiction? Many contemporary NT experts after thorough analyses of all the scriptures go with the latter magic-man conclusion with J's gospel being mostly fiction.
Obviously, today's followers of Paul et al's "magic-man" are also a bit on the odd side believing in all the Christian mumbo jumbo about bodies resurrecting, and exorcisms, and miracles, and "magic-man atonement, and infallible, old, European/Utah white men, and 24/7 body/blood sacrifices followed by consumption of said sacrifices. Yummy!!!!
So why do we really care what a first century CE, illiterate, long-dead, preacher/magic man would do or say?
/lol
Wow, just , wow. I have to say that it disgusts me that the 'wrong' kind of christian is one that follows the teaching of jesus in the new testement instead of the smite and hate of the old.
All the Obama groupies cannot defend his recored of failure so they attack and attack and attack the better man; Romney. Obama certainly has redefined what it neans to be a progressive Chirstian. It means to be Muslim in act and sypmpathy. CNN stop being such groupies. It's embarrassing . No wonder fox continues to be number 1. President Romney has a great ring to it don't you think? Get used to it folks. It's about to become reality, LOL.
Obama is four and OUT on November 6th.
It may even be a Reagan v. Carter landslide.
== o ==
The only kind of "trickle-down" that actually works:
"Frank" denerates to:
"Douglas" degenerates to:
"pervert alert" degenerates to:
"Taskmaster" degenerates to:
"Ronald Regonzo" degenerates to:
"truth be told" degenerates to:
"Atheism is not healthy ..." degenerates to:
"tina" degenerates to:
"captain america" degenerates to:
"just sayin" degenerates to:
"nope" degenerates to:
"WOW" degenerates to:
"!" degenerates to:
and many other names, but of course I prefer to refer to this extreme homophobe as
the disgruntled Evangelical Fortune Cookie Co. writer boot camp flunkie.
Moby Schtick
Frank, this article was about Obama, not Romney. Are you seriously suggesting that writing an article about person A can be an attack on person B?
Seyedibar
Record of failure? i know he's had a rough time mopping up the mess of our last republican president's economic bankruptcy, but I wouldn't go so far as to call that failure. Now Congress... they're the ones who have failed the American people again and again over the last 12 years.
Once again, all the conservative votes in the country "ain't" going to help a "pro-life" presidential candidate, i.e Mitt Romney, in 2012 as the "Immoral Majority" rules the country and will be doing so for awhile. The "Immoral Majority" you ask?
The fastest growing USA voting bloc: In 2008, the 70+ million "Roe vs. Wade mothers and fathers" of aborted womb-babies" whose ranks grow by two million per year i.e. 78+ million "IM" voters in 2012.
2008 Presidential popular vote results:
69,456,897 for pro-abortion/choice BO, 59,934,814 for "pro-life" JM.
And the irony:
And all because many women fail to take the Pill once a day or men fail to use a condom even though in most cases these men have them in their pockets. (maybe they should be called the "Stupid Majority"?)
The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the Pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions ( one million/yr) and S-TDs (19 million/yr) in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the Pill or condoms properly and/or use other safer birth control methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and S-TDs.
Hey, Seyedibar..... Ronald Reagan inherited a far worse economy than Obama did. And at the end of his first term we had 6 percent economic growth and the economy was generating between 600,000 and 800,000 jobs a month.
That's why Ronald Reagan got a second term.
Barack Obama, on the other hand, has 24 million people who have given up looking for work. We're mired in 1.2 percent economic growth. And the only reason the unemployment rate has fallen is because: 1 – people have given up looking for work and 2 - the administration has cooked the books.
Ricardo Quintanar
How about you get a little progressive thinking going because your ignorance overwhelms your ability to think. If you honestly believe that Fox tells the truth then you are ignorant if you believe any news agency tells you the truth you are ignorant and if you specially believe that by keeping tax cuts on the rich and helping them keep more money in their pockets will make the Rich invest in the public sector " that is public schools, public roads, public health care systems, social and welfare, then you are ignorant". Its hard to believe that Romney will really give a care about the people who do not live the same lifestyle he does especially if he has no mind of his own and has changed his view in less then 2 years and has fallowed the GOP as his mind and let them influence his way thinking. Go read Romneys history he is more of a liberal in 2007-2010 then Obama.
How about you get a little progressive thinking going because your ignorance overwhelms your ability to think. If you honestly believe that Fox tells the truth then you are ignorant if you believe any news agency tells you the truth you are ignorant and if you specially believe that by keeping tax cuts on the rich and helping them keep more money in their pockets will make the Rich invest in the public sector " that is public schools, public roads, public health care systems, social and welfare, then you are ignorant". Its hard to believe that Romney will really give a care about the people who do not live the same lifestyle he does especially if he has no mind of his own and has changed his view in less then 2 years and has fallowed the GOP as his mind and let them influence his way thinking. Go read Romneys history he is more of a liberal in 2007-2010 then Obama. Oh and for Obamas Record ill defended even though I am not an OBAMA fan but a person that believes in what I want for my country and who I believe can get it there. For example Obama ended the Iraq war which should have never been started by the REPUBLICAN party. Obama concentrated on Afghanistan's Al-Qaeda who is the primary suspects for the 911 attacks and crumpled their operation two few minute groups. Obama has kept the Nations deficit steady (this is not the public debt deficit) Obama has invested in our future technology so when we do need it, we can produce it here in the US instead abroad at China who is leading in New technologies. Obama spent 2 and a half years keeping the economy from completely breaking down by saving Auto industries and Banks who screwed themselves and by laws of capitalism should crumble but Obama realized that if he did not saved them, it would create even more unemployment and economic turn down. He also realized that the Auto industries had lower quality products and employee incentives that he created regulations where the Auto industry had to better their products and be more efficient with their employees. Obama has pointed out the corruption in Government and has pointed out how a bi-polar government does not work. Obama pointed out that having the Senate ruled by Democrats and House ruled by Republicans creates the perfect recipe for a stand still and not be able to get any of Obamas progress to work.
New low. Very trashy journalism.
I forgive. But I don't forget traitors to my country. To do so would be stupid.
Name calling, blaming, coveting, stealing and a kill list-just don't reflect Christian values or any religious values or morality-and I have read the whole Bible-though I'm a pagan!
So you do whatever the Stonehenge obelisk tells you to do?
KK Denver
John, I'm pretty sure Lily thinks for herself.
The "Jesus Christ" of the Mormon Faith, was born, raised and operated in South America ... for real. The Mormon Faith operates on a DIABOLICAL premise ... "men are gods and will inherit their own planet." Some will be (or are) more highly placed than the God who owns and controls our Earth ... for real. This belief, in total conflict with the First Commandment, nullifies their pretense at Christianity.
The Mormons don't operate on a principle of EVIL. They simply operate under misguided principles... just like all the other christians that have been fooled into believing that jesus really existed.
they operate in order to generate wealth
the 10 commandment are from the Jewish myth by the way.... which is rooted in the Egyptian and Greek myths.
From Professors Crossan and Watts' book, Who is Jesus.
"That Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate, as the Creed states, is as certain as anything historical can ever be.
" The Jewish historian, Josephus and the pagan historian Tacitus both agree that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea. And is very hard to imagine that Jesus' followers would have invented such a story unless it indeed happened.
"While the brute fact that of Jesus' death by crucifixion is historically certain, however, those detailed narratives in our present gospels are much more problematic. "
"My best historical reconstruction would be something like this. Jesus was arrested during the Passover festival, most likely in response to his action in the Temple. Those who were closest to him ran away for their own safety.
I do not presume that there were any high-level confrontations between Caiaphas and Pilate and Herod Antipas either about Jesus or with Jesus. No doubt they would have agreed before the festival that fast action was to be taken against any disturbance and that a few examples by crucifixion might be especially useful at the outset. And I doubt very much if Jewish police or Roman soldiers needed to go too far up the chain of command in handling a Galilean peasant like Jesus. It is hard for us to imagine the casual brutality with which Jesus was probably taken and executed. All those "last week" details in our gospels, as distinct from the brute facts just mentioned, are prophecy turned into history, rather than history remembered."
See also Professor Crossan's reviews of the existence of Jesus in his other books especially, The Historical Jesus and also Excavating Jesus (with Professor Jonathan Reed doing the archeology discussion) .
Other NT exegetes to include members of the Jesus Seminar have published similar books with appropriate supporting references.
Part of Crossan's The Historical Jesus has been published online at books.google.com/books.
There is also a search engine for this book on the left-hand side of the opening page. e.g. Search Josephus
See also Wikipedia's review on the historical Jesus to include the Tacitus' reference to the crucifixion of Jesus.
From ask.com,
"One of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Cornelius Tacitus is a primary source for much of what is known about life the first and second centuries after the life of Jesus. His most famous works, Histories and Annals, exist in fragmentary form, though many of his earlier writings were lost to time. Tacitus is known for being generally reliable (if somewhat biased toward what he saw as Roman immorality) and for having a uniquely direct (if not blunt) writing style.
Then there are these scriptural references:
Crucifixion of Jesus:(1) 1 Cor 15:3b; (2a) Gos. Pet. 4:10-5:16,18-20; 6:22; (2b) Mark 15:22-38 = Matt 27:33-51a = Luke 23:32-46; (2c) John 19:17b-25a,28-36; (3) Barn. 7:3-5; (4a) 1 Clem. 16:3-4 (=Isaiah 53:1-12); (4b) 1 Clem. 16.15-16 (=Psalm 22:6-8); (5a) Ign. Mag. 11; (5b) Ign. Trall. 9:1b; (5c) Ign. Smyrn. 1.2.- (read them all at wiki.faithfutures. Crucifixion org/index.php/005_Crucifixion_Of_Jesus )
Added suggested readings:
o	1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.htm – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.
2.	Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
– a list of early Christian doc-uments to include the year of publication–
30-60 CE Passion Narrative
40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
50-60 1 Thessalonians
50-60 Philippians
50-60 Galatians
50-60 1 Corinthians
50-60 Romans
50-60 Philemon
50-80 Colossians
50-90 Signs Gospel
50-95 Book of Hebrews
50-120 Didache
50-140 Gospel of Thomas
50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
65-80 Gospel of Mark
70-100 Epistle of James
70-120 Egerton Gospel
70-160 Gospel of Peter
70-160 Secret Mark
70-200 Fayyum Fragment
70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
80-100 2 Thessalonians
80-100 Ephesians
80-100 Gospel of Matthew
80-110 1 Peter
80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
80-130 Gospel of Luke
80-130 Acts of the Apostles
80-140 1 Clement
80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
80-250 Christian Sibyllines
90-95 Apocalypse of John
90-120 Gospel of John
90-120 1 John
90-120 Epistle of Jude
93 Flavius Josephus
100-150 1 Timothy
100-150 T-itus
100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
100-150 Secret Book of James
100-150 Preaching of Peter
100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
100-160 2 Peter
3. Historical Jesus Studies, faithfutures.org/HJstudies.html,
– "an extensive and constantly expanding literature on historical research into the person and cultural context of Jesus of Nazareth"
4. Jesus Database, faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html–"The JESUS DATABASE is an online annotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament."
5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bissar24.htm
6. The Jesus Seminar, mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/seminar.html#Criteria
7. Writing the New Testament- mystae.com/restricted/reflections/messiah/testament.html
8. Health and Healing in the Land of Israel By Joe Zias
joezias.com/HealthHealingLandIsrael.htm
9. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
YOU ARE CONFUSING THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND THE FIRST COMMANDMENT. YOUR GETTIN TO THE FOGGY LINE SEPARATIN CHURCH AND STATE "PILGRIM."
you are wrong on all points. obama has been lying to you and your too stupid to see it
"scout" denerates to:
Perhaps so, but at least I'm not so stupid I can't use my shift key or find the apostrophe.
It is you're, learn to spell before calling someone stupid.
I THINK YOU BOTH NEED TO GO TO CHARM SCHOOL
America is under attack spiritually ...good verses evil. Obama is anti God...he sounds more like an atheist than a christian , who is using his power along with the left wing radicals and left wing hollywood stars to destroy the moral fabric of this great nation.
The real attack on America, Beth, is stupidity such as you spout.
you terrify me and your ideas will set us back generations
LivinginVA
Interesting belief. I actually think that using phrases like "so and so is the anti-God" to describe someone with whom you disagree is destroying our country. By demonizing those who don't agree with you, you free yourself from having to consider their opinions, beliefs and a need to compromise.
Boy, I only WISH he were an atheist. Sadly not so.
And what if he IS an atheist? On the off chance that he is, whats the big deal? It would just make him more objective. All the evidence points toward him being a christian, but if he was atheist or Muslim, WHO CARES. Religion or non religion does not necessarily affect leadership qualities.
Just Saying....
Matthew 7:1-5 (NIV)
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
I JUST DID A TAROT READING ON YOU BETH. I SEE ANTI-PSYCHOTIC MEDICATION IN YOUR FUTURE
I can't believe that CNN would run a story like this a few weeks before the election.. Here's a fact Mitt Romney is nor a Christian... CNN must have been purchased by Faux News...
I agree comletely
mtsnfn
Funny – Just like religion – CNN took 1 day of rest from having a front page article that bashed Romey – and put something up about Obama. They don't report on all the intel coming in on new findings on Libya, women speaking out that have worked for Romney, or changes in swing polls. So they took one day of rest. Obama is a Christian when it is politically convenient. Same guy who disowned his preacher of 20 years, apparently heard nothing for 20 years, when it became politically convenient to do so.
I don't care about religion. All I know is we've got 24 million people who have given up looking for a job and economic growth mired in the 1.5 percent range.
This is all so Jimmy Carter.
Obama: four and OUT on November 6th.
Because it's the economy, stupid.
- Oh, yeah... good job on Bin Laden.
But it's the economy. Really. It is.
NoWingNutsAllowed
It is about the Economy, for most of us that is. But for the Right is about the Hate.
So when your policies fail and people attack them in the arena of political ideas, it's hate.
I wonder. Did you hate George W. Bush?
sybaris
Hey John, please post the closing numbers from the Dow in March 9, 2009 and post the numbers from this past Friday.
Jim R
Those who believe in religion belong to the infancy of our species. It's nothing more than deluded thinking, trying to fashion your own personal universe that somehow was designed with us in mind. How arrogant and egocentric
any religious war in the future will be to obliterate religion all together
Very good. You have now insulted over half of the country, almost all of the world, all of those that have given their lives for a religious belief, and your own forefathers. I bet you think you did a good job huh?
And to your clone below who commented that any war in the future would be to eradicate religion: do you think the 10% of the world would be able to eradicate the belief of the other 90% in a war? You both are mad!
Trashy journalism! Is this what it has come to. Bush can kill thousands of innocents. But watch out for those drones. Hypocrisy at its best
Imagine if a NFL players came out as an atheist, what would he be met with?
Imagine if a senator came out as an atheist, what support would she get?
Imagine if a teacher came out as an atheist, would the parents and students be supportive?
Atheism is the "new gay" – it is far more shameful for someone to admit being an atheist than to admit being gay.
Why would Jeremiah Wright's mold Obama's Religious views if all you hillbillies are sure he is a Muslim
There is only one hillbilly on this site and his first name is Bruce.
John Galt: Answer the question.
Religion is to me, and should for everyone, be a very personal journey. I do not judge others as to how religious they are, or proclaim to be, nor do I vote based on how "on the surface" religious a candidate is. Let everyone's spiritual journey be their own, and judge them on their actions in the real world, not their words. Although I am voting for Obama this election, this has nothing to do with his religion. My reason for not voting for Romney had nothing to do with his religion, either.
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 Next »


text:
Q: Parallel PoE injector from pc psu? So I was wondering if I could power my 8 or at least 4 ip cameras from my old pc psu.
I have: *500 W psu, where 12 V can use up to 360 W
*GV-EBL1100 ip cameras which require 12 VDC / (IEEE 802.3af), not sure if 7.4 or 15 W per camera (confused from documentation)
*non-PoE router I think (nWay switch)
*CAT5e cables
I want to make a diy injector with at least 4 sockets which connect to ip cameras (data + power) and 4 sockets which go back to router with data only.
Is it possible to connect all 4 cameras CAT5 cable power pairs parallel to a single psu 12V power pair using DC-DC transformer to 48V?
Does this particular ip camera communicates to negotiate power supply over data cables?
Will it work if CAT5e cable is splitted the way that power goes to ip camera but blank to router via (unused?) pairs?
Or just buying the poe switch is the only option here?
Don't hesitate to ask if something is unclear, I don't know if I provided enough information and clearly.
Thanks in advance.

A: PoE doesn't have "power pairs" and "data pairs". All pairs are both power and data. And those 4 pairs necessarily connect to the non-PoE switch as well. It should tolerate the excess voltage, but it's not designed for that.
As Jasen notes, standard PoE is 48V, not 12V.
The camera will indeed negotiate PoE power.

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaStackExchange


text:
Causation – Basic Principles: The Murky Waters of Causation in Medical Negligence
Thursday, March 11, 2021|Lindsay McGivern
This is the fifth article in our 8 part series published in the Verdict law journal on medical malpractice litigation. In this article Lindsay McGivern and Paul McGivern discuss the complex issue of causation. If the defendant did not meet the expected standard of care, did that breach actually cause the plaintiff's injuries? The history of the causation analysis is discussed, as well at the modern law of causation.
In previous articles, we outlined two essential criteria in a medical negligence action: the need to establish that a defendant physician or nurse owes a duty of care to their patients, and that the defendant breached the standard of care.1 Establishing these two components will not, however, lead to a successful lawsuit. Once the plaintiff has established a duty of care and a breach of the standard of care, it is still necessary to establish that the breach caused the injuries of which the plaintiff complains.
Medical negligence is a particularly complicated area of the law, often as a result of the need to establish causation. Motor vehicle accidents may have causation issues arising out of an argument about whether one particular injury was pre-existing or the result of the accident, but primary causation is relatively easy to establish: plaintiff was healthy, plaintiff was hit by a car, plaintiff is now injured. Medical negligence is rarely so clear cut. For example, there is the issue of why the plaintiff sought medical treatment in the first place. Are the injuries complained of something that would have arisen from that original medical issue regardless of the care or something caused by the care? There can also be issues related to risks of a procedure. This is something that is often raised in the standard of care portion of a claim but can also arise in the causation analysis: are the plaintiff's injuries those from known risks that arose despite adequate medical care, or are they caused by the negligent act(s)? Sometimes a plaintiff can have injuries from both. There can be gray areas where it is difficult to draw a line between what resulted from unfortunate but anticipated medical problems, and the specific injuries resulting from negligent care. Additionally, there is the issue of the limits of existing medical knowledge. Medicine is constantly evolving. Knowledge is growing but there are limits to what we know about the human body and how it reacts to external stimuli. Proving the impact of different medical treatment can be extremely challenging.
BACKGROUND – THE HISTORY OF THE CAUSATION ANALYSIS
The causation issue has vexed the courts of the Commonwealth for decades. Difficulties of proof have lain at the heart of the debate. Usually, the physician or nurse providing care has specialized knowledge and experience which allows him/her to both recognize and understand the evidence as it relates to causation. The courts have gone back and forth over such issues as who should bear the burden to proof and what the burden should be. For example, in McGhee v. National Coal Board 2, the plaintiff sued his employer after he developed dermatitis on the job. The cause of his illness was coal dust on his skin. He was exposed to this dust both while working in a kiln (the non-negligent exposure) and as it stayed on his skin for an extended period while he made his way home (the negligent exposure). His employer was supposed to have supplied shower facilities but did not do so. In allowing the claim, Lord Wilberforce, in an oft cited judgment, stated:
"…there could be little doubt that the Appellant's dermatitis resulted from a combination, or accumulation, of two causes: exposure to dust while working in hot conditions in the kiln and the subsequent omission to wash thoroughly before leaving the place of work; the second of these, but not the first, was, on the findings, attributable to the fault of the Respondents. The Appellant's expert was unable to attribute the injury to the second of these causes for he could not say that if the Appellant had been able to wash off the dust by showers he would not have contracted the disease. He could not do more than say that the failure to provide showers materially increased the chance, or risk, that dermatitis might set in.
My Lords, I agree with the judge below to the extent that merely to show that a breach of duty increases the risk of harm is not, in abstracto, enough to enable the pursuer to succeed.
But the question remains whether a pursuer must necessarily fail if, after he has shown a breach of duty, involving an increase of risk of disease, he cannot positively prove that this increase of risk caused or materially contributed to the disease while his employers cannot positively prove the contrary… it is a sound principle that where a person has, by breach of a duty of care, created a risk, and injury occurs within the area of that risk, the loss should be borne by him unless he shows that it had some other cause.
This judgment was widely (and usually unsuccessfully) cited as suggesting that so long as the plaintiff could prove a breach of the standard of care which increased the risk of injury, then the burden of proof shifted to the defendant to disprove causation.
The debate as to how to conduct the causation analysis in medical negligence cases was addressed by the Supreme Court of Canada in Snell v. Farrell 3 In that case, the plaintiff lost vision in one eye after undergoing surgery to remove a cataract. Neither side was able to establish with certainty when or how the injury occurred. The trial judge, relying on McGhee, found for the plaintiff on the basis that the defendant had created a risk of injury, the harm suffered fell within the ambit of the risk and the defendant had not disproven causation. The plaintiffs judgment was upheld on appeal, but for different reasons. In the Supreme Court of Canada, the court ruled that "Causation need not be determined by scientific precision."4 This statement, in itself, lines up neatly with the existing legal principles: proof is required on a balance of probabilities, not with scientific certainty. The judgment went further, however, and stated:
The legal or ultimate burden remains with the plain tiff, but in the absence of evidence to the contrary adduced by the defendant, an inference of causation may be drawn although positive or scientific proof of causation has not been adduced. If some evidence to the contrary is adduced by the defendant, the trial judge is entitled to take account of Lord Mansfield's famous precept. This is, I believe, what Lord Bridge had in mind in Wilsher when he referred to a "robust and pragmatic approach to the … facts" (p. 569).5 [Emphasis added]
The question thus arose as to whether scientific evidence and proof of causation was required at all, or whether trial judges were permitted to make inferences of causation based on ordinary common sense.
In the ensuing two decades, trial judges and the BC Court of Appeal made it clear that the "robust and pragmatic" approach did not allow for a finding of causation in the absence of positive evidence led by the plaintiff.6
In addition, the BC Court of Appeal held that any evidence led by the defendant resulted in a bar against the trial judge making an inference of causation or finding causation based upon common sense reasoning.7
Another complication in the causation analysis is the potential for a "material contribution" test. In Athey v Leonati,8 the Supreme Court of Canada outlined the rules around causation:
[14] The general, but not conclusive, test for causation is the "but for" test, which requires the plaintiff to show that the injury would not have occurred but for the negligence of the defendant…
[15] The "but for" test is unworkable in some circumstances, so the courts have recognized that causation is established where the defendant's negligence "materially contributed" to the occurrence of the injury…
[17] It is not now necessary, nor has it ever been, for the plaintiff to establish that the defendant's negligence was the sole cause of the injury. There will frequently be a myriad of other background events which were necessary preconditions to the injury occurring. To borrow an example from Professor Fleming (The Law of Torts (8th ed. 1992) at p. 193), a "fire ignited in a wastepaper basket is … caused not only by the dropping of a lighted match, but also by the presence of combustible material and oxygen, a failure of the cleaner to empty the basket and so forth". As long as a defendant is part of the cause of an injury, the defendant is liable, even though his act alone was not enough to create the injury. There is no basis for a reduction of liability because of the existence of other preconditions: defendants remain liable for all injuries caused or contributed to by their negligence.
Questions subsequently arose as to whether a plaintiff, unable to prove causation on a "but for" analysis, could succeed in his or her lawsuit by establishing that the defendant "materially contributed" to the injury. Undoubtedly, the plaintiff does not need to prove that it was the defendant's act alone (or inaction alone) that caused his or her injury. No plaintiff could ever succeed if that were the case. It is sufficient that the defendant's care was one cause of the plaintiff's indivisible injuries. The issue that arose was whether a plaintiff could succeed on a "material contribution" analysis of causation where it was impossible to prove causation using a "but for" test, but the defendant breached the standard of care and exposed the plaintiff to unreasonable risk of injury.9
The Supreme Court of Canada partially addressed this issue in Resurfice Corp. v. Hanke.10 McLachlin C.J., speaking for the court, clarified that the "material contribution" test is not available any time there is more than one potential cause of an injury. She also made it clear that in certain, special circumstances, an exception may be made to the basic "but for" test. A "material contribution" test may be available in situations where two criteria are met:
1. It is impossible for the plaintiff to prove causation on a "but for" analysis and this impossibility is due to factors outside the plaintiff's control.
2. It is clear that the defendant had a duty of care, breached the standard of care and, as a result, exposed the plaintiff to an unreasonable risk of injury (as long as the plaintiff suffered that form of injury).11
THE MODERN LAW OF CAUSATION – CLEMENTS V. CLEMENTS
Clements v Clements12 set out clearly the modern rules of causation. Clements was a motor vehicle accident case. The parties were a married couple involved in a motorcycle accident. At the time of the accident, the defendant husband was driving over the speed limit and the motorcycle was overloaded by 100lbs. A nail punctured one of the tires causing the motorcycle to wobble and fall. The plaintiff wife argued that the accident was caused by the defendant's negligence in driving over the speed limit with an overloaded vehicle. The trial judge found it impossible to determine what speed and weight would have allowed the defendant to recover from the wobble caused by the punctured tire. The case was appealed all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada on the question of whether the "material contribution" test was available in the circumstances of the case. In holding that the trial judge should not have applied a "material contribution" analysis, the Court outlined the major principles of causation.
The first rule out of Clements is the explicit statement of the Court that the test for causation is the "but for" test.13 The plaintiff must prove, on the balance of probabilities, that but for the negligence of the defendant, the injury would have been avoided. The Court was clear that "but for" causation requires that the plaintiff prove that the defendant's act was a necessary part to producing the injury.14
The Court also discussed the application of the "but for" test. Scientific evidence establishing the precise contribution the defendant's negligence made to the injury is not required.15 Rather, judges are required to apply the "but for" test in a robust, common sense fashions.16 Where appropriate (in the face of evidence connecting a duty and breach of the standard of care to the plaintiff's injury), a judge may infer causation on a balance of probabilities.17
It remains open to the defendant, however, to present evidence rebutting this inference and demonstrating that the injury likely would have happened in any event.18
Finally, the Court discussed the "material contribution" test.19 The Court unequivocally stated that, unlike the "but for" test, the "material contribution" test is not a test of factual causation at all. It is a method of recovery on a policy-driven basis where the plaintiff is permitted to recovery despite their inability to prove causation through no fault of his or her own. It is only to be very rarely applied (and has in fact never been applied by the Supreme Court of Canada) in instances where fairness and the basic principles of tort law require it. "Material contribution" is not about material contribution to the injury but rather material contribution to the risk of injury. In situations where the defendants owed a duty of care to the plaintiff, breached the standard of care and materially contributed to the risk of injury to the plaintiff, a plaintiff can recover only when it is impossible to prove "but for" causation. By "impossible", the Court did not refer to scientific impossibility. If the current state of scientific knowledge does not enable the plaintiff to prove causation, the plaintiff's claim will still fail. Impossibility leading to application of a "material contribution" test refers to the very specific scenario in which the following factors are met 20
1. The case involves multiple tortfeasors;
2. Each tortfeasor has been proven to be negligent;
3. "But for" the global negligence of the multiple tortfeasors, the plaintiff's injury would have been avoided;
4. It is impossible for the plaintiff to prove which of the tort- feasors was individually responsible for the plaintiff's injury because they can all point the finger at each other.
The modern law is clearly less flexible than some plaintiff's counsel may have previously hoped. The reality of medicine is that there will be frequent circumstances in which plaintiffs do not have the scientific or medical foundation to prove the cause of their injury. This is not the kind of impossibility that would lead to application of the "material contribution" test. Also, the new "material contribution" test may sound like an easier avenue of proving causation but can in fact insert additional challenges. It allows the defendants multiple opportunities to avoid a finding of negligence. Rather than simply needing to prove that "but for" the negligence of one defendant, the plaintiff would have avoided the injury, the plaintiff would be required to prove that each and every one of the defendants was negligent. If one defendant is found to have met the standard of care, "material contribution" may not be applicable since not all the potential causes of the injury were the result of negligence. While non-tortious factors contributing to an injury do not eliminate a finding of negligence, the principles underlying "material contribution" make it accessible only when negligent defendants would be able to escape liability by pointing the finger at each other as the cause. If one of the defendants, who may have been the sole cause of the injury, is found to have met the standard of care, this reasoning may no longer apply. In addition, other non-tortious causes (pre-existing conditions, normal complications of medical procedures and other, unrelated, medical issues) may be pointed to as likely sources of the injury, preventing the plaintiff from establishing causation on a balance of probabilities regardless of the test used.
LOSS OF CHANCE
One complication in these cases is particular to medicine: the uncertainty of treatment outcomes. Often in medicine, physicians provide the best available treatment, which leads to recover in some patients but cannot prevent death or ongoing disability for others.
In medical negligence cases, the plaintiff must be able to prove, on a balance of probabilities, that appropriate care would have avoided their injuries. It is not enough to establish that appropriate care would have given the plaintiff a real and serious chance of benefit.21
A frequent complaint in medical situations is that the medical team should have intervened earlier. It may be easy to show that earlier treatment would have improved the outcome or led to better odds of recovery. This is not enough. The plaintiff must establish that appropriate treatment would not only have increased the odds of success but would, on the balance or probabilities, have avoided or mitigated the injury. This issue often arises in delayed diagnosis of cancer cases. The earlier cancer is caught and treated, the better the chances of recovery. Yet , even if the plaintiff's treatment was delayed by a year, it can be extremely difficult to prove that earlier treatment would have led to a different outcome. That loss of chance of recovery is not compensable.
Although scientific proof or scientific certainty is not required to prove causation, the underlying condition of plaintiffs and the limits of current medical knowledge make causation a significant hurdle in most medical negligence cases. In the majority of cases, adequate defence lawyers will be able to find some non-tortious sources of injury that they can point to as a likely cause of the plaintiff's injuries. In many situations, the state of current medical understanding is about "increased risk" or "benefit of treatment" rather than certain cause and effect principles. Even with a "robust and common sense" approach to the evidence, proving that appropriate care would have avoided the plaintiff's injury can be an overwhelming task.
This article has reviewed the basic principles of causation. In the next article in this series, we will discuss the application of these principles in medical negligence cases.
1. Donaldson, Andrea, The Doctor-Patient Relationship and Duty of Care – How Wide Should the Net be Cast', the Verdict, Issue 163,Winter 2019; Osmond, Brenda, Standard of Care, the Verdict, Issue 165, Summer 2020.
2. [1972] 3 All E.R. 1008 (H.L.)
3 [1990] 2 SCR 311
4. Supra
6. Jackson v Kelowna General Hospital, (2007) 277 DLR (4th) 385; 66 BCLR (4th ) 138 at para 20; VAH v Lynch, 2008 ABQB 448 at par a 320.
7. Moore v Castlegar & District Hospital (1998), 49 BCLR (3d) 100.
8. [1996] 3 SCR458
9. BM v British Columbia (Attorney General), 2004 BCCA 402
10. [2007] 1 SCR 333
11. Supra at para 25.
12 2012 sec 32
1} Supra at para 8.
14. Supra at para 8.
15. Supraatpara 9.
16. Supra at para 9,
19. Supra at para 13-45.
21. Laferriere v Lawson, [1991] 1 SCR 541; St. Jean v Mercier [2002] 1 SCR 491
Lindsay McGivern
← Defenses to a Medical Malpractice Claim – Navigating the Minefield
Trails for all – BC is a leader in adaptive mountain biking →
The Verdict - Law Journal

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


text:
School of Informatics
School of Informatics home
Content to be removed
Informatics interns in action
Centres for Doctoral Training Open Day
New Informatics MOOC Launched
School of Informatics Jamboree 2015
KB101 - The Centenary Lecture Series: Informatics Talk
Doors Open Day 2021
Funding Awards for Doctoral Training
Gadgets Developed for Elderly and Infirm
Matteo Mio wins Ackermann Award
Introduction for undergraduates
Researchers' Journey
Introduction to the School of Informatics
What is Informatics?
History of the School of Informatics
Pioneers of Informatics in Edinburgh
School of Informatics Trivia
PhD studentship in Economics and Computation
Researchers propose improvements to SQL databases
OLD-Student experience
PhD studentship in Privacy and Machine Learning
PhD studentship in neuro-symbolic AI and/or explainability
PhD studentship in Quantifying Decentralization in Blockchain Platforms
Paolo Guagliardo and Leonid Libkin have recently published two papers that address flaws in SQL and relational databases. They found examples showing unexpected and counterintuitive behaviour of even simple SQL queries that made them question analytics results obtained from relational DBMSs. Errors are especially likely to occur if some data is missing.
SQL (Structured Query Language) is the most popular programming language used for relational databases. It is the most commonly used tool among data scientists. Various companies are relying on it to build database management systems (DMBS), whether commercial, or open source. Databases these days are used to handle vast amounts of data such as customer details for businesses, medical records at surgeries and hospitals and stock items in warehouses. They also power many websites that we use routinely on daily basis. It is crucial for the database to be easily managed and for the information to be accessed and updated quickly and efficiently. But researchers at the School of Informatics are questioning the reliability of SQL databases and proposing improvements.
There are a few possible reasons for that. First of all, we do not understand the full semantics of SQL. While some formal semantics for SQL have been proposed, they were too simplified to describe the real language as used by programmers. The Standard that guides SQL use and development can be interpreted differently by different companies. Secondly, we do not know how to handle missing data and optimize common database queries in the presence of such data. That's why transforming data from a raw form (process known as data wrangling) is crucial and research into it is significant.
Guagliardo and Libkin have been pursuing two lines of work: one concerns a formal semantics of SQL, and tries to at least eliminate the element of surprise in query results. The other presents a revised evaluation scheme that restores correctness to the notoriously unpredictable behaviour of SQL queries over databases with incomplete information.
Researchers are proposing formal semantics of a basic fragment of SQL that behaves exactly like the real-life SQL does, as opposed to its theoretical reconstructions with their many simplifications. From a practical point of view, this could be a useful tool for both users and implementers in understanding the behaviour of SQL queries. It is much more concise than the natural language specification of the Standard, as well as being very easy to implement and modify. They also advocate extending the formal semantics, and its experimental validation, to include more features of the language.
The findings also address multiple issues with SQL's handling of queries where the data is missing. SQL disregards the standard notion of correctness on incomplete due to its high complexity. As a result, the evaluation of SQL queries on databases with missing data may produce answers that are just plain wrong. However, the scientists have proven that SQL evaluation can be modified, for a basic but rather expressive and very common fragment of the language in a way that queries return only correct answers.
A Formal Semantics of SQL Queries, Its Validation, and Applications. PVLDB 11(1): 27-39 (2017)
Correctness of SQL Queries on Databases with Nulls. SIGMOD Record 46 (2017): 5-16.


text:
Derelict Land
Martin Horwood
To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what area of land designated as brown field in each county in 1997 has since been dedesignated; and what estimate he has made of the area of such land which has been built upon since 1997. (286575)
Mr. Ian Austin
No information is available on what land was designated as brownfield in 1997. Information on the stock of brownfield land by region from 1998 is available from the National Land Use Database of Previously-Developed Land and is given in the following table:
Government office region
2001 on 1998 specification
Information at county level for land which has been de-designated and the acreage of land which has been built on could be provided only at disproportionate cost.


Selling your home can be a complex process. As a seasoned Scottsdale area listing agent, I will help you with the entire home selling process. I will help you get the best price for your home and help sell it in the fastest possible timeframe.


text:
What Being a Promise Fellow Means to Me
By La'Kiesha Shannon, Minnesota Alliance With Youth AmeriCorps Promise Fellow serving at Harbor City International School in Duluth, MN
Being a Promise Fellow is more than preparing students for their future. It's about building a connection with the youth. It's being that caring adult that they can trust and being that person who believes in them because maybe they don't have that at home. I chose to become a Promise Fellow because I want to be a teacher when I'm older and it was an opportunity to gain experience with youth. Another huge reason is because I want to make a positive difference in someone's life and being a Promise Fellow helped me do that.
The impact that Promise Fellows make are tremendous. It's about the connection that the Fellow makes with the student. It's a chance for the students to see that there are people that believe in them and that they can do something positive with their lives. Maybe that's all the student needs to be able to be more confident in their abilities.
For me, personally, I felt that the students could relate with me better than their teachers because I was closer to their age. I was someone that they could talk to about their peer problems. At one point, one of my students had a breakdown in class and started crying. Her teacher asked her if there was any place she wanted to go or someone she wanted to talk with. At first she said no, she did not want to talk with anyone. After a couple of minutes she said: "I want to talk with Ms. Shannon; can I go to Ms. Shannon's room?"
After talking about what happened and getting her to cool down after a little while, she was able to calm down enough to go back to class.
Being a Promise Fellow is not always about helping students with their education. It's about helping them grow as a person. I had a parent email me this;
"I can't thank you enough for what you helped my child accomplish! And thank you for being someone she trusts! You helped teach her that the staff really care about her and are trustworthy! You did more than just help her with school work. And for that, I am so grateful."
This email to me describes the impact that Promise Fellows have. The students impact us just as much as we do them. These small thank yous make me glad that I decided to become a Promise Fellow. I am glad that I was able to touch students' lives. I feel that not only have I touched their lives but they have touched mine as well. I will never forget them and I am glad that I got the chance to work with them. It was an honor. I would also like to thank Minnesota Alliance with Youth for giving me the chance to be able to be the person that was able to help these students.
Working at the school that I had attended as a high schooler was nerve wrecking and awkward and sometimes I still felt like a student. Eating lunch with the teachers in the teacher's lounge was one of the weirdest things. I felt like I should've gotten scolded for it. The teachers there were understanding and helped me feel more comfortable as time went. Eventually, I got used to the aspect of being staff. I felt accepted.
Over all, I loved working at Harbor City. Both staff and students were welcoming and helped make me feel like I belonged there.
[From "Voices From the Field: Reflections from Minnesota Alliance With Youth's AmeriCorps Promise Fellows." Summer 2015.]


I have been tasked with finding an experienced Agile/scrum Project Manager to a leading Health care regulator based in Central London.
The Agile/scrum Project Manager will play an integral role in a large scale, £2m budget, change programme to replace an 18 year old bespoke legacy IT systems with a new Microsoft Dynamics 365 platform. This would see the Agile/SCRUM Project Manager heading multiple agile development work streams and supervising the transition of the project from development to BAU.
As an Agile Project Manager your duties will include managing BA's gathering requirements, performance tracking, managing internal stakeholders, managing external service providers, progress reports to board level, resource planning, budgetary control/management and oversight of a team of cross functional IT specialists delivering the project.
The Agile Project Managers new employer is a well known UK Health care Regulator focused on ensuring high standards of patient care, adequate training & education to its members and the highest standard of performance.
With 800 employees, over 35 within the IT team and a vast array of projects, you will never have a dull day.
Apply now to avoid missing out on this fantastic opportunity!


Jeppe Mariager-Lam needed a new web page design and created a contest on 99designs.
The designer is very cooperative, quick responding, talented and hardworking! I'm going to have future 1-to-1 projects with him. Thanks!
24tech is a news website for people interested in broader technology news. It will aggregate articles from across a number of sites both inhouse and through partners.
We don't have anything currently in mind - A basic news site, probably light in colours, focus on text content, imagery, and videos.
Frontpage and article details. Article details page should allow for inline content such as videos, images and pure text. There would be several h2's in the articles.
The menu structure will be quite complex for this site, so we'd like to ensure that that is included in the designs. There will be 3 levels in the menu tree, ideally all of which should be available on the frontpage. I have attached the suggested menus and their levels in the attached file.
help Blok Cryptocurrency exchange redesign, guaranteed !


text:
* Vibe Magazine
* Hip Hop Week
* Susan G Coleman
* Vogue
* Prada
* Tia Norfleet
* James Stewart
* Freeda Foreman
* Hip-hop
* Cancer research
* Womens health
First African American Female NASCAR Driver Tia Norlfeet Signs With Platinum Sports Entertainment Gr
Washington/Atlanta, GA, Platinum Sports Entertainment Group, Inc. is pleased to announce that it has signed NASCAR's most unique driver Tia Norfleet as its client to the international entertainment conglomerate.
By: The Platinum Marketing Group
Tia Norfleet
* Washington - District of Columbia - US
Jan. 14, 2010 - PRLog -- "It is an honor to be working with Tia Norfleet. She is the first and only African American female driver in NASCAR and ARCA. Tia is very competitive, and is making history doing what she loves to do. We are very proud of her over here at Platinum," stated President and CEO Allen L. Ellison
About Tia Norfleet
A native of Suffolk, Virginia with a major in Engineering, Tia Norfleet started driving go-carts in 1995 -2000 with a record of 22 top 10 finishes 6 top 5 finishes and 2 wins. She then move up to the Bandoleros Series in 2000-2003 finishing with a record of 3 top 10 finishes and 2 top 5 finishes. In 2004, Tia drove a NASCAR Late model with 18 starts and 2 top 15 finishes. In her Drag-Racing career, she had amassed an impressive 52 starts with 37 wins at (231mph).
Tia Norfleet is the Founder and CEO of Tia Norfleet Motorsports, LLC. She is the only driver to be endorsed by the hip-hop and R&B music industry a $7.5 billion dollar industry and have the endorsement of the 114 historical colleges. Fan her on facebook at http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tia
Norfleet/319655660065?ref=search&sid=620171074.2863370487..1
About Platinum Sports Entertainment Group, Inc.
Platinum Sports Entertainment Group, Inc. is a central Florida based, premiere, full service sports & entertainment conglomerate with offices in Washington DC and Great Britain. The company, founded by Mr. Allen L. Ellison, serves clients across the globe, assisting them with contract negotiations, management, client development, public relations and marketing. With a comprehensive and professional approach, our company can assist you with endorsement and sponsorship procurement, the development of your corporation and manage assets, while allowing you to focus on the day-to-day activities of increasing productivity.
For questions and comments about Tia Norfleet or to speak with a representative from Platinum Sports Entertainment Group, please visit our website at www.eplatinumgroup.com or call us at 863-513-3547.
Platinum Sports Entertainment Group, Inc. is a central Florida based, premiere, full service sports & entertainment conglomerate with offices in Washington DC and Great Britain. The company, founded by Mr. Allen L. Ellison, serves clients across the globe, assisting them with contract negotiations, management, client development, public relations and marketing.
: ***@eplatinumgroup.com
: Vibe Magazine, Source, Ozone, Hip Hop Week, Susan G Coleman, Vogue, Prada, Tia Norfleet, James Stewart, Freeda Foreman
: Hip-hop, Cancer research, Womens health
: Washington - District of Columbia - United States
Account Email Address Disclaimer Report Abuse
Platinum Sports Entertainment Group, Inc. News
Black History Month Celebrates Innovator Candice Price
Black History Month Celebrates Pioneer Tia Norfleet
Tia Norfleet Makes NASCAR Debut
National African American Drug Policy Coalition, Inc. Hires The Platinum Marketing & PR Group, Inc.
DA-SH Magazine Hires The Platinum Marketing & Public Relations Group, Inc.
Kitchen Social announces date night cooking classes for Valentine's Day weekend - 151 views
San Francisco Opens The First Housing Program For Transgender & Gender Nonconforming Adults - 91 views


West Chula Vista Weight Loss Fitness 6 Week Pick Your Challenge Results – Charolette D.
Arcadia Biosciences Inc (NASDAQ:RKDA) CEO Raj Ketkar and CFO Matt Plavan tells Proactive Investors that the company is transitioning to a new health and nutrition business model from an old R&D-focused business. Ketkar says first sales of its GoodWheat product combined and advancing its cannabis business should contribute to greater revenue growth into 2020.
San Antonio TX Weight Loss Fitness 6 Week Challenge Results – Juan G.


Here, Yellow is leading back to the starting line. Blue is pushing and has established a leeward overlap. As the windward boat, Yellow is obliged to keep clear of Blue. Rule 11, while Blue must initially give Yellow Room and Opportunity to Keep Clear Rule 15.
In this situation, Blue is able to luff Yellow all the way up to head to wind (there is no Proper Course before the start). Rule 11, Rule 15 and Rule 16 apply here. The only safe option for Yellow is to tack away. Blue is now in a position to lead back to the starting line. Yellow is vulnerable to being late for the start, or slow as the starting gun fires, giving an early advantage to Blue.


You might not have missed me … but I missed you! It's been a massive week for me. I've found it impossible to look at my phone or the internet for a multitude of reasons. I'm really glad that I'm now able to reflect on the last week and I hope that by writing this… Continue reading I'm back!
The parenting style no one told me about... I was told - read this book... have you heard of this technique.... you should try this... but no one told me about the parenting style called: Your Style. Read more at my blog - link in profile.
Monday Morning Musings: "Postnatal Depression can affect anyone." Postnatal depression or anxiety can affect mothers or fathers in the first 12 months after the birth of a child. While I knew I might have been more at risk due to previous depression, I thought I knew how to handle it. This was not true - I waited too long to seek help and ended up getting to a point where intrusive thoughts were taking over my life. Although there are things that can make you more susceptible to PND, I think it's really important for people to know that it really can affect anyone. You could have planned the baby or they could be a surprise, it could be your 1st or 4th baby, you could have enough money to be comfortable or be scrapping by - whatever the circumstances it could affect you. If you think you could have Postnatal Depression or Anxiety please seek professional medical advice. There is help available and the quicker you address it, the less chance it has of intruding on your life.
Don't underestimate the power of a nice shower! Whenever I'm having a bad day I am always amazed at the power of a nice shower. Not always easy to find the time for with a baby but it is so worthwhile to squeeze one in when things are tough. I find that the water washes away my problems and I come out feeling rejuvenated. Such a simple thing but as parents, every alone moment can be a real treasure.


I tried something totally off center for the next two temari flower patterns. I've probably seen something like this somewhere but I'm not entirely sure. It think it is a kaleidoscope of rainbow flower petals. When I finished the petals on the design I didn't like the open space so I added the concentric rings of stitching to the middle. Then I thought "Super Mario flowers".
I'll share the Obi and the other design on the S10 in my next post.


text:
This is a list of French television related events from 1957.

Events

Debuts
24 January - Voyage sans passeport (1957-1969)
A la découverte des Français

Television shows

1940s
Le Jour du Seigneur (1949–present)

1950s
Le Club du jeudi (1950-1961)
Magazine féminin (1952-1970)
Lectures pour tous (1953-1968)
La Boîte à sel (1955-1960)

Ending this year

Births
9 April - André Manoukian, jazz pianist, actor & TV personality
19 April - Bernard Montiel, TV presenter & actor
7 May - Véronique Jannot, actress & singer

Deaths

See also
1957 in France
List of French films of 1957

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaWikipedia


Madeleine Vionnet, French fashion designer, lived from 1876 to 1975. The designer made a name for herself for introducing the bias cut to the fashion world. Known for her elegant Grecian style, Vionnet was called the 'Queen of the bias cut' and "the architect among dressmakers". Since she put such an afford in designing her clothes always in a way that showed the natural curves of a female's body, women just loved her as a fashion designer.
Madeleine Vionnet, French fashion designer, lived from 1876 to 1975. The designer made a name for herself for introducing the bias cut to the fashion world. Known for her elegant Grecian style, Vionnet was called the 'Queen of the bias cut' and 'The Architect among Dressmakers'. Since she put such an afford in designing her clothes always in a way that showed the natural curves of a female's body, women just loved her as a fashion designer.


A tisket, a tasket—an unbelievably beautiful basket of blooms! A charming woodchip planter is the perfect way to show off yellow daisy poms, orange carnations and purple aster along with solidago and a lovely orange lily. Measures 10"H X 10"L.


text:
P*R*I*N*T >
trakMARX #19 (Apr 2005) Jean Encoule
S*M*A*S*H INTERVIEW
by Jean Encoule
www.trakmarx.com
Ed Borrie – Gtr & Vocals
Salvatore Alessi – Bass & Vocals
Rob Hague – Drums
S*M*A*S*H were one of the very few British rock'n'roll groups that actually mattered back in the 1990s. Alongside These Animal Men they were lazily labelled The New Wave Of New Wave by IPC & subsequently broken on the wheels of the industry before they could inflict any real damage on the status quo. Passionate, inflammable, aggressive & exciting, S*M*A*S*H reintroduced the notion of home made: records, t-shirts, badges, posters & fanzines - & for a brief period during the middle of a very sad decade, S*M*A*S*H lit up the darker stages of the UK circuit with the hope of salvation: salvation from the 'will this do?' generation (Thatcher's children).
I witnessed S*M*A*S*H live many times back in the day – each performance unique & memorable. Chris Jennings & I would think nothing of driving yet another 100 miles for yet another fix of S*M*A*S*H. We wore the t-shirts (bastardisations of the US military M*A*S*H template), collected the badges & poured over copies of the official S*M*A*S*H fanzine, 'Petal Buzz'. Ed, Rob & Salv would always find time to talk to us – their dressing room was always open to all-comers. S*M*A*S*H were totally accessible.
S*M*A*S*H created an impressive racket for a 3-piece. At the time they were the only contemporary rock'n'roll group mixing politics & Punk in a vaguely anti-authoritarian manner - & we loved them for that. For Punks with a lineage of protest stuffed inside their leather jacket pockets - S*M*A*S*H were the logical continuation of The Clash – except without the compromise. There were no broken promises from S*M*A*S*H.
S*M*A*S*H songs were called things like "Real Surreal", "Drugs Again", "Lady Love Your Cunt", "Shame", "(I Want To) Kill Somebody", "Self Abused", "Altruism", "Bang Bang Bang" & "Another Love". In comparison to their contemporaries, S*M*A*S*H were spectacularly significant - a million miles away from the tambourines, ass-slapping, mono-brow conservatism & faux Cockerney music hall that the style gurus will tell you defined the decade. S*M*A*S*H were too real for those heady days of fakery & foppism. They were never going to last.
S*M*A*S*H released one LP – the smouldering "Self Abused" (Sept 1994) – as testament to their utter brilliance – but the British record buying public & the fickle media spectacularly failed in their obligation to elevate S*M*A*S*H to the heights their talent demanded & by 1995 the wheels has come off.
Dateline - 2005: a decade or so down the line from the moment in time that defined them, S*M*A*S*H have reformed. Jean Encoule recently caught up with S*M*A*S*H vocalist, Ed Borrie, to bring you this:
trakMARX - Tell us about the first birth of S*M*A*S*H back in 92.
Ed: OK .. Ed and Salv meet Rob 1983-ish.. at a squat.. and start to play/ practice together.. Gigs were benefits for Miners strike CND Animal Lib and stuff. Played with many groups.. often The Astronauts.. who also come from W.G.C.
trakMARX - What musical influences had an affect on the nascent S*MA*S*H?
Ed: Punk Rock.. Motown.. West Coast Rock and Northern Soul
trakMARX - As the most overtly politically aware group of the NWONW (copyright reserved - NME Genre Definition Dept 1994) - did it feel like you were picking up the baton from The Clash at the time?
Ed: Our anger, energy and politics came as a reaction to Thatcherism. We HAD NO CHOICE but to write songs about how we felt.
trakMARX - "Petal Buzz" fanzine gave S*M*A*S*H fans the opportunity to get involved & keep abreast of developments surrounding the group. Was the DIY ethic important to S*M*A*S*H?
Ed: The DIY ethic was very important to us. We made our own records and t-shirts and were very pleased that Matt Hill, who wrote edited and printed Petal Buzz, felt inspired also. Matt is now a journalist - a good one.
trakMARX - S*M*A*S*H classic, "Lady Love Your Cunt", proved to be an important watershed for the group. What did you make of Germaine Greer going on Celebrity Big Brother recently?
Ed: Confusing.. I thought.. No I didn't.. I didn't.. confusing.
trakMARX - "Kill Somebody" threatened to cause a furore in the summer of 1994 with it's list of recommended Tory assassination targets. Were you watching your backs & listening out for clicks on the phone-lines back then?
Ed: No.. (Erm, that's interesting, as only 10 years earlier Crass were heavily persecuted by both the Police & MI5 following their criticisms of the then Thatcher government. Is there, therefore, a connection between the growth in the power of State Control over the last 25 years & the subsequent reduction in the levels of radical anti-authoritarianism? Discuss. - Jean Encoule)
trakMARX - Your support for the Anti Nazi League in turn led to you working with Billy Bragg who deconstructed the acoustic reshuffle of "(I Want To) Kill Somebody". What was it like working with Billy?
Ed: Billy Bragg was fab to work with and the trip to the park on the ANL float is a cherished memory – "Real Surreal" under the railway bridge as a train went over - Wow..
trakMARX - When the debut S*M*A*S*H LP, "Self Abused", arrived in Sept 94 it somehow failed to match the ferocity of your live show. In retrospect, what were the reasons the blue touch paper failed to ignite successfully?
Ed: "Self Abused" reflected our tired and un-focused state.. It is a great album, overly honest in words and music. We were touring at the time of mixing and Chris Allison came under a lot of pressure from us and the record company and probably himself. I guess he wanted to do the best for us.
trakMARX - How did you hook up with Sub Pop & how did the USA react to S*M*A*S*H?
Ed: Lisa at SubPop was a S*M*A*S*H fan who came to see us quite a few times, she organised the single. The U.S.A. Loved S*M*A*S*H energy, vibe, songs and honesty.
trakMARX – Tell us about the first death of S*M*A*S*H.
Ed: We hit the wall in 1995 when Rob left. Ed's drug addiction, lack of communication, strained friendships.
trakMARX - How was life post-S*M*A*S*H?
Ed: A bleak decline into the hell of addiction..
Rob: Spent too much time chasing deals, compromising my ideals, putting up with muppets, selling my soul, getting sick of the biz & most who sail in it. Did some magic stuff too. I'm not bitter, I promise. Three is the magic number.
Salv: There was no life for me, post-S*M*A*S*H.
trakMARX - What have you made of the musical comings & goings on the guitar landscape during the ensuing decade?
Ed: Rock'n'Roll comes and goes. There was a definite song-writer gap for a while there, fortunately songs are back. We always said we were a SONG band. We always said we were a SOUL band.
trakMARX - Tell us about the rebirth of S*M*A*S*H.
Ed: 2003 - Ed knocks on Rob's door: tears, hugs.. call Salv.. hugs.. little Jam.. wow.. that's why we started - because we liked playing songs together?? !!!!
trakMARX - Any plans to resurrect "Petal Buzz"?
Matt Hill has mentioned it.... we'll see.
trakMARX - As a politically aware group - how do you view the changes in the political landscape since you've been away? Is there any room for politics in politics - yet alone in Punk Rock'n'Roll?
Ed: 'Who ever's in power I'll be the opposition' – "(I Want To) Kill Somebody". Politics is about money and votes, so is Rock 'n' Roll.. fortunately we have no money and lots of friends..
trakMARX - Will the new S*M*A*S*H be writing any new material?
Ed: New songs are what really vibe us up, can't help it.. We've been in the studio recently recording tracks for a little EP we plan to release on Les Disques de PopCor in April/May 2005.
trakMARX - How have the recent comeback shows been going?
Ed: Really well, so many old faces makes me smile - and so many New kids who just dig the music or just missed us first time round. Overwhelming.
trakMARX - What live dates have you got coming up?
Ed: April 9th, supporting Carbon Silicon at Bedford Esquires. May 21st, Guildford. May 29th, Reading - and finalising gigs in Leeds and Manchester.
trakMARX - And finally, where's the best place for folks to keep abreast of future S*M*A*S*H action?
Ed: vu.morrissey-solo.com/smash
Jean Encoule – tMx 19 – 04/05