text:
Tag Archives: nudity
Only I Deserve That Fate
Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, Detroit: Become Human, morality, nudity, plot, rule of law, story
Minor spoilers for Olympics-area plots in AC: Odyssey
It's half day Tuesday.
So I got nothing.
Well, I have a seventh grader. There's that.
Which is also why I got nothing.
What you got?
I finished up the blue quest with the old flame (while fending off bounty hunters, because this is in Attika where I am hated for probably very legitimate reasons that I can't remember), and then I bolted back to Olympia to talk to all those yellow exclamation points.
Cleared up a few of them. Talked to the two guys who were both robbed at the same time and accusing each other, and investigated the crypts, but didn't finish it.
Talked to the pankration guy, but didn't actually do the fight yet.
Still, progress!
I did all the exclamation points there, so we can dish. Of course, the one you haven't finished is the best one.
The "chat with Barnabas" one was odd. Sorta felt like "We programmed all this shit….go see it!"
And the one with the mother…..still not sure I did that one right. How'd you do it?
Yeah, Barnabas' bit was odd. It was kind of sweet though, really, just hanging out with him enjoying his enthusiasm. And an interesting little note there where he was being all rapt in the temple of Zeus and Kassandra is totally not feeling it. "It's all right, I have enough faith for both of us," he says. His faith is an interesting counterpoint to her (our) doubts.
Assuming you saved the mother from being thrown off a cliff, I think you must have done it right. What I kind of loved about that quest was that at the end I earnestly said to her "no one deserves that fate," and then turned around and leaped right off the edge of the cliff myself.
I thought it was funny, anyway.
But I just talked to her son, found the poem about her father, and then argued to the priestess that she had a right to be there based on her family line. Worked OK.
I did all the same stuff….but I have my doubts.
It was SO obvious that she was being wronged. So terribly obvious. And this game, for all of its faults, has been pretty good at twists. After all, all we had was a poem that wasn't explicitly to anyone (it only had initials), a love letter that WAS explicitly to her, and a dude who SAID he was her son. As you say, even Kassandra ended the quest with a preachy line that was kinda out of character for her (she doesn't often moralize) which made me think that the game was throwing out some irony. We're so conditioned by games to think that a priestess of anything who is scowling must be bad and wrong. Admit it: as soon as you came upon scowling priestess over helpless woman, you were GOING to save that woman. That's the reaction I had. And that was before any "facts," any investigation, any anything. And we both saved her. And felt good about it. Why? Because "No one deserves that fate."
Which is ridiculous cuz we kill people all the damn time for offenses such as standing too close to unmowed lawn.
I dunno, man. I have my doubts. And that's pretty good game design.
Oh, I have many doubts about the overall moral/legal aspects of the story. Because indeed, I kill people all the time for faults of a similar level (like being in the wrong place, i.e., someplace I want to take treasure from, at the wrong time, i.e., when I want to take the treasure).
And whether or not she actually came from this good family has no real bearing on the fact that married women are, apparently, not allowed to watch the games.
She's a married (or widowed–I guess once married, you're stuck with that status forever) woman. Therefore, she's not allowed. Case closed.
Add to that the fact that she disguised herself as a man to sneak in, indicating that she KNEW she wasn't allowed: Kassandra's argument that she had the 'right' to be there is nonsense, from a legal standpoint, because again: married women can't be there. It doesn't matter who they are.
I went after the whole quest basically not because I thought there was a good legal argument, but because I thought the law was unjust. (This is par for the course for Kassandra and legal problems: as we saw, her approach to helping Sokrates was to kill the witnesses and steal the evidence.)
I personally think people shouldn't be thrown off cliffs for trying to watch sporting events. That's my own (and, I guess, my Kassandra's) personal morality, not Greek law. I did see there was the option to say she was guilty and they could do whatever they wanted with her. If I'd been more interested in the letter of the law, I might have gone with that.
But I am not exactly an upholder of any in-game law other than the one that says "I get to do anything I want because I'm the protagonist" so it would be a bit odd of me to get all righteous at this point.
All very true. It is a dumb law. Maybe that's the thing we're supposed to be thinking about? We "sentence Kevin to death" all the damn time for, let's face it, very little. Sure, we kill very bad guys in games all the time. But we also have talked about how ready we are to kill random folks who aren't doing anything to us just because someone asked us to. It's kinda weird that when someone asks US to kill someone for a dumb reason we're all "Yessir!" but when someone else wants to kill someone for a dumb reason we get indignant and stop it and are all "No one deserves that."
"HOW DARE YOU PRIESTESSES! YOU ARE FREE!"
****Jumps off mountain****
Random Guy: "Oh, hey, that woman stole my rake."
Kassandra: "Who?"
Random Guy: "Woman up there that you just saved."
Kassandra: "Stole your rake? No shit."
Random Guy: "Yeah, could you kill her? I mean, I have no proof, I could be making all that up where you going?"
Kassandra "Off to kill her! Bye!"
Totally, totally true!
"You know, you saved that woman because sneaking into the games shouldn't be a crime, but she did also sneak into my house and take my great-grandfather's handaxe."
"SHE MUST DIE."
(On the other hand, if I sneak into someone's house and take their great-grandfather's handaxe, they should just consider themselves lucky they survived.)
Maybe it's just that we reserve to ourselves the power of life and death. Everyone I feel like killing almost certainly deserves to die–everyone who dies at my hands has met justice.
People OTHER people feel like killing, I don't know. Do I trust this priestess? Maybe not. I can't be sure justice is being served if I'm not the one dishing it out.
I think there is also something in there about crimes against people (even if only alleged), compared to crimes against the gods, or against some vague sense of morality (like "married women will be overcome by lust if they watch naked men competing").
I mean, however much of an overreaction a death sentence is to the crime of stealing a rake, at least we have a concrete harm that was done: this guy is missing a rake! Whereas the 'harm' of married women admiring naked men, well, I'm perhaps not the most objective witness on this topic, but come on. Where's the damage? Or Sokrates asking uncomfortable questions. Who's really, concretely injured? It's not as if he's stealing rakes or something!
And this is maybe our godless heathen instincts assuming that crimes against social mores and so forth are fairly minor, whereas crimes against other humans should be taken seriously (arguably entirely too seriously, but that's another topic).
Side note on nudity, did you notice when Kassandra goes into the temple of Zeus she says something like "great craftsmanship! This is way better than the one on Kephallonia!" Naturally I said, "well, but this one isn't naked…"
You deny others the witcher tax. You hypocrite.
You are certainly not an objective witness. Nope.
Another side note on nudity: When you are investigating the quest we've been talking about, and you talk to the old lady who's all "Of course it's bad…all those naked men…the muscles…" you know the one, did you notice that there was….how can I put this…a part of the statue behind them that was perfectly framed by the old lady and Kassandra when they were talking?
Well played, Ubisoft. Well played.
Oh yes, I noticed. It was very well played.
This game is delivering on the statue male nudity front, I will give it that.
Man, there better be some more quality nudity in the next thing we play. Been WAAAAY too long.
I vote for either nudity, or something kind of short. (Or both! That would be the dream.) It might be nice to not instantly dive into another 800-hour game. I mean, I WILL dive into another such game, but…maybe a break first.
What's on the horizon that isn't a huge open world? Anything?
Not really. Unless we take a break to play Detroit. Everything else is big. Death stranding, Divinity, Outer Worlds, big all.
I feel ya. Would be nice to have an Edith Finch here, but there's nothing.
Well, in order to get us away from this ridiculous talk of nudity I played! I am now Olympic champion!
But you know how they competed in Greece? That's right. Naked.
Nudity!
Well….not NUDITY nudity. That's too hard to animate. So what do you do when you need video game characters to be "naked" but you can't actually have them BE naked?
It's a throwback.
It never goes out of style.
It's time to get out all the old designs and patterns cuz you dress your characters up in…..
……say it with me Femmy…..
BURLAP LINGERIE!
You're gonna love it. It's pretty great.
BURLAP LINGERIE!!!!!!
Olympic champion here I come!
As for the next thing…I could honestly get behind Detroit. It was free and has been sitting around for a while, howlongtobeat.com says it's 14 hours with the main story plus extras (but not completing every single thing), it's a major change of pace stylistically, David Cage is always good for some discussion even if it's not always admiring discussion…it could be a good palate-cleanser before the next giant open world.
Also, I don't know about nudity, but I wouldn't put it past Detroit to have some.
Oh it must.
Probably in an incredibly offensive way.
I miss the Witcher.
I'm down. It'll have themes. And no forts.
If I never see another fort again it'll be too soon.
But this is irrelevant because this game will never end ever ever ever.
Sigh. Looked it up. Only "partial nudity."
Dammit, David Cage……
Another dream crushed.
I Am a Cleric of the God of Murdering You
Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, children, family, monsters, nudity, plot, religion, story
Spoilers for the priestess story on Kythera in AC: Odyssey
So I decided to take a short break from playing so you can stop running around doing god knows what and get to the point where you're doing stuff that is blog worthy. That said, I suppose I have to start the post with something so I will offer a
Pearl of Parental Wisdom
to our faithful readers.
As you know, there are many things they do not tell you when you decide to become a parent. One of the more important ones is this: When you are the only adult in the house with your children and you decide to take a crap, a child related crisis is guaranteed to ensue during such time as you are taking the aforementioned crap.
It's a certainty of the universe. Nature called around the time that Junior had to go to the bus stop. I checked in with Junior, reminded him to bring his trumpet home and find his science notebook, have a good day at school etc. Went and did my business, I come out, and JUNIOR IS STILL HERE. I'm all "DUDE! WHAT THE FUCK!" He's all "Oh, didn't know I had to go to the bus."
I TOLD him go to the bus, trumpet, science notebook……
Now, Junior is in seventh grade. Junior has never, EVER missed the bus in his entire scholastic career. Seriously. Going back to kindergarten, he's been on that big yellow miracle every single day of school. The ONE TIME I decide it's safe to take care of business…..
It's fucking uncanny. No pun intended.
I seriously hope you fucking played and we can talk about video games.
"I didn't know I had to go to the bus."
I see. That's what you're going with, Jr.? Interesting choice.
I played. Of course I played! But…I ran all over, talked to everyone on that damn island, and no sign of any mythical beasts. I did uncover a cultist, who I now need to kill. Maybe she'll turn out to be (or at least be able to tell me about) the mythical beast.
Or maybe I had the wrong island. I swear the quest said "one is on Kythera," which is where I am, but maybe it was Kythora or Kritastika or something instead. All these islands run together. I'll look into that as soon as I'm done with the Cultist, because there is really nothing else to do on this particular island.
But it was kind of an interesting quest in that you first come across a priestess, Diona (for some reason pronounced 'dee-own-ee", fighting some bandits, right? (I'm going to just spoil the whole thing, assuming you don't care enough to do it, but don't read further if I'm wrong.)
So you help her fend off the bandits, and she says they were sent by the cult. And she needs you to do three things before she can tell you more about the cult, so you do it. And also, she's VERY seductive, which made me a bit suspicious because yeah, I am extremely attractive, and sure she's a priestess of the Goddess of Love, but she was really laying the "you get sexier every moment" stuff on a bit thick. But hey, I flirted back, and I did the tasks she needed done, including speaking to her older sister, the Head Priestess, who has barricaded herself in the temple because someone is trying to kill her. Older sister happens to mention that Diona is wildly jealous of her and always wanted to be Head Priestess herself.
Hm. So I get back to Diona, and she's all "I can't wait to get you into bed!" and you can either sleep with her or not, and either way she then sends three big dudes to murder you. Turns out older sister was right: she WAS wildly jealous, wanted to be Head Priestess, joined the cult for the power, and now plans to murder her sister.
Anyway, I have to go try to save the older sister and kill Diona the cultist. And maybe there will be a mythical beast in there somewhere.
But it was yet another look at family, and specifically of siblings rather than the parent/child stories that are more common, and I thought it was kind of interestingly similar to the situation with me and Alexios, where the cult is between two siblings, the older of whom is not a member, and the younger is. Though Diona apparently chose to join it out of jealousy, while Alexios was raised in it and is therefore not entirely responsible.
You know, I can only lead with Pearls of Parental Wisdom for so long, here. Just saying.
We're now in that "we're just gonna spoil shit because fuck it" phase. We're officially there.
Sigh. That does sound very interesting, and, had I not been playing this game for so long, I'd probably like that quest. But man, I have been playing this game and that just sounds like more of what we've been doing.
I really hope this isn't going to become a trend in AAA games, this more is more thing. I find myself saying "This game would be good had it just trimmed the fat" a lot, not just with this game, but with a lot of games. MEA really started it. Mafia 3 ran with it.
Are you at least kinda close to a point where you can go back to the main story?
Well, probably, assuming I can find this mythical beast. I am one mythical beast short, man! I have to find that last one so I can take the artifacts back to dad!
That's where I rejoin the main story. According to the plan anyway.
I'm tempted to google it for you…..
You'll have your chance to catch up. Next week looks like promising bloggage. After all, this weekend we're back to TRAVEL BLOGGIN' WITH BUTCH as I FINALLY get to celebrate my 20th anniversary by taking Mrs. McP down to a lovely, romantic hotel on the cape.
And I'll come back Tuesday and you'll be all "Just give me a couple more days, then I PROMISE I'll do the actual story."
Ah, good. I'll do my best to find that monster, deal with dad's issues, and get back to mom.
I have good intentions! I'm just trying to win the approval of both my absent parents, in an all-too-familiar story about the aftermath of childhood trauma.
Except….this is a real fear, here.
You're assuming that, upon killing the monster and getting the doohickey and going back to dad, that'll END the questline. Why do you think this will end the questline? Given this game, each doohickey will give you three more things to do, and I'll get back after a romantic weekend and you'll be all "Hey, guess what? I made it to Atlantis and there are question marks EVERYWHERE!"
And then that's it. We're a parenting blog.
And the whole reason we blogged in the first place was to NOT talk about our kids!
Oh man…you're right….
A whole Atlantis level full of question marks! With Atlantis forts to infiltrate and Atlantis captains to murder!
I'd never leave!
But on the other hand, Pythagoras told us he's there by himself, right? So there can't be forts full of captains, because where would they come from?
I'm going to cling to the belief that it won't be another map the size of Greece.
CLING TO IT.
Dude, even if it's not the size of Greece, you gotta focus, here. We can't play this game forever. I can't play this game forever. We're now at a point where other big stuff comes out THIS month!
You can't be hoping for more and more and more, can you?
No, no. Not hoping for more and more. Hoping to start wrapping up some existing stuff. Clinging to that dream.
All right, listen, if I finish the monsters and get back to dad and it doesn't wrap that bit up, I'll just drop dad and go see mom and get back on her story.
After all, I know she has three very important things for me to do…
OK, fair.
Because she does have three more things for you to do.
As does the guy she's with. And the two dudes you'll meet after that. And the guy at the start of this blue quest I'm doing.
Oh, I believe you.
Well, there IS bloggage to be had. We just have to get back to doing the same stuff.
We will!
Just…you take a break, go on vacation, don't worry about it. I'll totally take care of the mythical beasts and catch up to you and we'll be done in no time.
No problem. Very plausible scenario.
Just….if you open the great gates of Atlantis and there's question marks….RESIST!
Unless there's nudity. Then I'll totally understand if you pursue it.
Bring on the vast gallery of Naked Zeus statues!
Watch, it'll really be that and I'll have given you an excuse to play this forever.
I'll make sure to send screencaps.
"This is Naked Zeus smiting his enemies with lightning…this is Naked Zeus in the bath…this is Naked Zeus enjoying a cocktail…"
Stop it. Just stop. This is way too likely, and you're upsetting me.
Nah, it's not remotely likely. We're talking about Atlantis, after all.
The statues will obviously be Naked Poseidon.
Dude….I'm at trumpet And clarinet lessons. I'm already fragile here.
You're not making me feel any better.
The Chicken of Doom
Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, combat, gender, Greedfall, nudity, parents, story, theme
Minor spoilers for Barnabas' plot in AC: Odyssey
So went to Kos! Killed a legendary rooster on the way. A legendary rooster.
Game you so silly.
So, here we go again. The blue quests are good, the white quests aren't. I did the Sirens, and I did Markos, and there ya go. Good, bad.
At least I think the Sirens are good. At the very least, that was interesting. The sound design of not really being able to hear cuz of the wax (trust me, it was good), the general creep of that, this "I need this extra protection" feeling, all the people half dead around…..nice. And themey in the "Kassandra as god?" vein. Nice!
And then there was Markos.
I got a trophy for finishing that quest. The trophy was for "Finish Markos' quest line." Quest line. You'd think that would mean the conclusion of a story arc, perhaps a story involving Kassandra's father figure, in a game about fathers. You'd think maybe there'd be something to do with the child in their weird little family, a child who died tragically, representing Kassandra's biggest failure, as well as a failure by Markos, the ersatz father figure. Something that has to do with these father/family themes that the game allegedly has.
And, of course, you'd be wrong.
Seriously, game. Seriously. It's one thing to put stupid "burn this sink that" nonsense in the way of narrative. It's another thing to SUBSTITUTE "burn this kill him" FOR narrative. This "quest" was nothing! NOTHING! Burn, kill, thanks, here's some money and a piece of loot. THAT. WAS. IT. Phoibe? Not mentioned. NOT ONCE!
This game…..This could have been, SHOULD have been good. Markos, her "real dad," the con man, the scoundrel, the wimp. He's pretty much the opposite of Kassandra's real mother and "real" father. There could have been themes and bloggage for days around that! But the game went and made this quest, the end of Markos' questline, as they said, nothing more than any other quest in the game. Just "Go over there and burn that shit."
Not forgiving this. This wasn't an example of "Hey, there was good in here, they just buried it under chores." There was nothing here. Nothing.
And there should have been.
I killed that rooster too! That island of angry chickens was surprisingly dangerous, for an island full of chickens, but I survived. Silly, silly game.
But yeah, the sirens bit was kind of cool. The muffled sounds, as you say, and the people lying around, and the creepiness.
I was also disappointed with the end of Markos' story. For pretty much all the reasons you say: zero mention of Phoibe (I guess maybe it's possible to do this part first, so she might not have been dead yet?), zero actual resolution or sense of anything having happened in their relationship–as you say, this is the guy who raised her, the parent figure who was around for the greatest part of her life, and the contrast with parent figures who weren't around, that could have been something. But no.
Although I did kind of love the fact that the guy you delivered the wine to thought it was poisoned, and Kassandra was yelling "no, that's just the wine!" I drank some with him, and became briefly ill myself. It's just that terrible!
And you're right that the blue quests are where it's good. I did the one about the poet over the weekend. Quite relevant to our discussion about parents, and knowing your parents.
And got some sort of poultry themed weapon. Game, stop.
I'm sorta curious to get to the end of this particular part. I'm sure it will be a let down, but at least it'll be an interesting let down.
As for Morkos: Nope. Nothing. In a game where family plays such a role. As for "Maybe she might not have been dead yet," well, we deal with such things when we make non linear open world RPGs, right? Shit, this game handled it just fine in the brothers quest, as you had killed the Monger when you did it and I hadn't. Nothing a couple changed lines of dialog can't solve.
If this is how you "complete" character quest lines in this game, I'm less eager to finish it than I was before, and I wasn't that eager before.
I did the same with the wine, and it was rather amusing, but that was even more disconnect. The last thing we had regarding Kassandra's original family was her putting a wooden eagle into Phoibe's dead hands, giving her the eagle she always dreamed of, knowing that she had failed the one person she truly cared about. Now, poof! "Oh, Markos, you so silly, let's have a fun quest, wokka wokka." Game, the fuck.
The blue quests are like a different damn game. They really are. It has me wondering if the intentional choice of making them a different color was intended to indicate they ARE a different game.
Hear me out: We've talked before about how, if you're going to take a franchise and change what it fundamentally is, you're going to have issues. We've talked on how this game is trying to pivot Assassin's Creed from being a stealth, actiony thing into a straight up, open world RPG. We've talked on how that can irk people who see Assassin's Creed on the box and want stealth and action, not an RPG. Maybe these icon colors are explicitly trying to separate the old from the new.
Because the white quests sure do feel old school AC. Sneak here, kill him, sink that. If the shanties were any good, the white bits would feel EXACTLY like AC4 (the only other one I played). The blue bits feel and play like, well, an RPG, and not a bad one at that. Non linear, moral vagueness, choices that matter (even romantic choices that matter!), themes…..you know… the stuff we like. It's such a drastic difference that, the more I play, the less I think it's possible that it's just coincidence that white and blue are so different. It can't be.
That's an interesting thought…that maybe they're hiding the more RPG-ish stories in special color-coded side quests, perhaps thinking that if these types of stories are popular, they can bring them more into the foreground in future games?
Making a gradual color-coded shift in tone and approach? Hm.
I don't know. It would sure be a weird way to do it, especially making all of them optional. But you must admit the differences in those quests are very striking. They just play differently. And, at least so far, it isn't like they just got lucky and had a good one in there. They're ALL strikingly different. Not just better: different.
Very strange. And annoying, because it means the whole game could have been that, and the whole game is very, very much not that.
Well, they're not COMPLETELY different. They're still full of fetch quests and murdering people in different locations. There's just a bit more of a narrative around it. And there is sometimes some level of narrative around the white quests, like with our old friend Heitor, or the handsome doctor. But I agree, the main game is full of non-narrative objectives like "kill the captain in this fort" that really run together after a while.
True. I guess I'm just so starved for any kind of anything I'll see "some themes with the looting" as "completely different."
My need for themes also has me looking over my shoulder at other games.
Like Greedfall. You seeing Greedfall? This is a dark horse that isn't getting much press, but it looks damn interesting.
I have never heard of this game. I don't believe it exists.
Stop trying to distract me while I'm murdering captains over here!
It's drawing mighty comparisons to Bioware. Not moldy flag bioware, but the bioware of old.
It looks good.
Intriguing!
Good thing we have tons of time and don't have anything else going on.
You're right, you're right. We have to start prioritizing.
I vote we do the ones with the most nudity first.
Dude, THIS game has more nudity (in statue form) than the last three things we've played, and how well is that working out for you?
We may need something else to go by.
Dude, inanimate nudity just ain't nudity.
T SHIRT!!!!
I'm grasping at themes, being all "It's COMPLETELY different!" You're grasping at marble genitalia, sometimes literally, depending on how you climb, being all "It's COMPLETELY different!"
This is how far we have fallen. We must rectify all of this with the glut of games ahead.
(Must admit, when I have to climb those risque statues, I try to go up the side as much as humanly possible.)
(How come Athena's so well dressed?)
So Mafia 3's Playboys and Vargas prints don't count? Dubious.
It is interesting though, the goddess statues are much more clothed than the gods. Maybe it just reflects actual practice? I mean, they did compete naked in the Olympics, so male nudity was just a thing. Whereas women didn't compete in the Olympic games and therefore weren't sort of publicly naked as specimens of noble humanity in the same way. (As the load screen tells us, there were separate female games, but they were clearly secondary in importance, and it does not specify whether the women also competed in the nude.)
I could look this up, but Googling too much nudity at work could be problematic.
Well, I ain't gonna google it.
We shall never know.
Nope. It's a mystery for the ages.
Blogging for the Future!
family, fitness, nudity, romance, story, theme
Minor spoilers for AC: Odyssey
Well, the shows were really good and everyone was very happy. But we got home very late and everyone is very tired. I also hadn't eaten, so, when dinner ain't over until ten, there ain't no games.
One of the many reasons I am grateful for this blog is that, when Mrs. McP asks what I did during my day, I can say "Played video games….but it was for the blog!" and she vaguely accepts that.
Yeah! That's the value of the blog! It transforms playing games, which we'd do anyway, from something that is purely for entertainment purposes and therefore vaguely frivolous and easily skipped, to an intellectual activity that contributes to personal fulfillment and stuff. Work that angle.
I played. Man, I'd left a bunch of stuff undone in Korinth. Wandered around checking out question marks and trying to complete the location objectives they turned out to be. It was not a great night for me, strategy and stealth-wise, so I'd try to sneak in to rob someplace, instantly get spotted, wind up thrashing around in a messy melee, run off into the the city to escape the gathering guards, circle back to try to finish robbing the place while they were looking for me somewhere else, etc. I mean, I got stuff done, but there was no ELEGANCE to it.
Ah well. I haven't followed up on the main story, so we're still in about the same place other than the number of question marks on the map. Also, I'm in Korinth.
Oh I work that angle. I also find it funny that Mrs. McP, the love of my life, the woman who stood in front of all of those we love and made wedding vows, the woman that bore me three children, seems far more interested in your enjoyment of your hobby than my enjoyment of my hobby. It's often:
Her: "What did you do today?"
Me: "Couple chores. Played some games."
Her: ****glare****
Me: "C'mon, I haven't played in a while, I don't have much to write about and Femmy's getting edgy."
Her: "Oh, right! Femmy! Go ahead then."
And she means it! I can tell when she's being snarky! My soul is crushed, yeah, whatever, why didn't you get the dry cleaning. But god forbid YOUR soul gets crushed!
But whatever. I'll work any angle I can. It's how one stays happily married.
I hear ya on the nights where sometimes you just don't have it. This game seems prone to those nights. It's funny, because I kinda feel that stealth heavy games often are more prone to "I just didn't have it" nights. Maybe it's because of that mechanic where if you just make the one simple mistake of getting seen early it all goes to shit, which increases the impact of being prone to mistakes on a given night.
Or maybe I'm just remembering wrong. After my quest dementia yesterday, anything's possible.
She probably just doesn't want you to look bad in front of the internet, represented by the blog/me. She's afraid you'll be mocked endlessly for not keeping up if you don't play once in a while. All our legions of fans will start howling and complaining and before you know it it's front page news that half of PFTL is falling down on the job.
No one wants that. Just keep working that angle.
Oh I am WORKING it. I can't bring dishonor to the family pen name!
Yes! Yes, Mrs. McP! I AM PLAYING GAMES FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!
Dear God I'm tired.
I'm going to play some games. FOR HONOR!
After I shower.
Do it! For honor and family and the future!
So, what. Did an "impact" quest that, gotta say, not seeing the impact. I brought a flower from some doom and gloom dude to a doctor. That's it. You do that? Wonder what the impact was. There wasn't a choice or anything except not to do it.
Then met Socrates, which I'm gonna spell this way, mostly cuz I can't see it without hearing Keanu Reeves in Bill and Ted call him So Crates. Did I mess that up? Cuz I got seen, and the dude was all "There is evidence of tampering…." It wouldn't have changed it, right? No way. Socrates is gonna be in this either way.
The I went and found the sculptor and lied my way in saying I was his lover. He's at a dock. I'm standing on a temple now in the port place.
I think I see what happened, here, as it is about to happen to me. You did this, figured "Well, as I am now outside the city…..MAGPIE!" Right? And off you went, letting Perikles marinate a while.
You lied your way in to see the sculptor! That's awesome! I didn't even realize you could do that!
I just climbed the wall around the corner, inched around, and dropped in behind the guard, then knocked him out. I refrained from assassinating someone, man. It was an Impact decision, even if I'm not sure what the impact was.
And delivering a flower to a doctor. Hm. Doesn't ring a bell. I might not have found that yet.
But yes: I got the sculptor out of Athens, thought "hey, I'm out of Athens!" and went…elsewhere. You know me well.
As for Socrates, yeah. I also was spotted while attempting to stealthily switch the votes. But he MUST have been going to do whatever he was going to do in the game anyway, right? Only thing is maybe his friend got exiled instead of being able to stay in the city. My bad, friend.
Although, also, my bad tampering with the will of the voters, so perhaps I just didn't want to subvert democracy!
Anyway, hey, there are lots of nice places to go in Greece that aren't Athens. Like Korinth! Very handsome statue of naked Poseidon there.
All other issues aside, I think this game has given me more MALE NUDITY, albeit in statue form, than anything I've ever played. I have to salute it for that.
You know you're getting desperate when a naked statue does it for you.
Yeah, man! I was all "It's been so long since we've……SEEN each other…." and the guard was all "Well….he's going to die anyway….better make it count." and in I went.
Poor guy. Poor, gullible guy.
It showed up after the snake guy. Weird dude all "I have seen the end of Athens….it is a flower, withering in the sun…a sickness shall befall it…." and Kassandra is all "Yeah, that only happens in stories. Like this story I heard about in this parallel universe where some bleeding heart named Femmy spared those kids in Kellpholonia…." Ok, I made that past part up. But he mentioned a sickness, and told me to take this wilted flower to a doctor who would understand. So I did. End of quest. Weird.
Sure, sure. You'll subvert anything if there's a question mark.
Hey, these statues are more than any other game sees fit to provide. I must give credit where it's due.
And no, I definitely didn't get an apocalyptic prophecy about a wilting flower. Although if I do, I'll certainly deliver it, because unlike Supideo, I know better than to try to avert prophecies.
Ah, but you did try to avert it! I figure, as an impact quest with no choice, the only choice is not to do it.
And you didn't.
Even not doing something is a choice.
Deep. Very deep.
Well…I…yes…I mean, I never even saw it, so it wasn't a CHOICE so much as a failure to notice something…but in a deeper sense, then yes, that's a choice I made in a metaphysical way…
Very deep.
You made your choice when you embraced the life of the magpie.
I embraced that life long ago in many other games, and that decision is still following me.
Karma, man.
Athens shall perish because of your magpie.
Or not. I still can't tell what that was all about.
I'll tell you what IS bad karma: Fitness. I kinda let things slip there, for a while, cuz hot, busy, etc. Went to the track yesterday, and now muscles I didn't even know I had hurt.
That's definitely the thing about fitness. You can't just get fit and be done with it! No, you have to MAINTAIN fitness, with constant effort. And if you stop for a while, you have to start practically all over again with the pain and suffering! It's not fair!
Back to the Game!
12 Wednesday Jun 2019
Assassin's Creed: Odyssey, children, horses, nudity, story
Minor spoilers for the beginning of Assassin's Creed: Odyssey
What a great half-day Tuesday that was yesterday! The kids all behaved and left me alone and Mrs. McP came home and took all of them to this class where they learned how to identify wildflowers and weave baskets out of sea grass and so I got to play for, like 13 hours and wasn't that naked dress ball awesome and
OH WHO AM I KIDDING!!! AIEE!!!!
I'm installing it as soon as they are on the bus.
I started to get suspicious when you said the kids left you alone.
I should have been suspicious as soon as you said they all behaved, but I wanted to believe it! Because you deserve a great half-day Tuesday!
But no matter. Install the game immediately and let the dead past bury its dead. But first, loot those dead, because no point letting good loot go to waste.
I did start the game! Played an hour or so. It's good fun so far. Beautiful scenery to run around it, bushes to skulk in while you wait to assassinate people, etc. Attractive question marks in all directions that I'm sure will lure me into endless magpie runs all over the map.
I'm into it.
I thought you'd doubt me at "great."
We deserve a fun, scenic, summery romp of a game!
Though, as we are a game blog, as I boot this up, I will throw out an observation and a question we shall return to during this game:
RDR2 did you many wrongs, but it did grant you a small mercy: it did not put every icon of every everything on the map. Had it littered the map as so many games do, you'd still be swearing and looking for bones cuz you can't help yourself. At the very least, you'd be all "I WANTED to do that Dutch quest but bones, cards, you know….." and you'd be pissed.
Now, here we are, back in the fold of AC, a franchise where, about an hour or two, you can barely see the damn map cuz it's covered in icons.
I'm gonna be curious here as to whether you are going to be happy for a return to icon aided magpie or if you're going to say that RDR had it right. It'll be an interesting comparison, to be sure.
It will be an interesting comparison. Because that is indeed one thing I said for RDR2: it didn't lure me into collectible-hunting by giving a lot of clues on the map. And I did, indeed, somewhat appreciate that it instead made its collectible-hunting difficult enough that I could ignore it, rather than just easy enough that I felt compelled to do it, while also time-consuming enough to be annoying.
I did appreciate that. On the other hand, we must remember that I partly appreciated it because I didn't enjoy the game that much and didn't want any reason to play it longer than I had to. When I'm enjoying a game, I don't mind treasure-hunting as much because I don't mind spending extra time in its world. I mocked myself (justifiably) for obsessing over those murals or whatever they were in DAI, and certainly the animus fragments in our previous Assassin's Creed…but I didn't actually hate what I was doing while I was doing it.
So it's certainly possible I'll miss RDR2's sparse maps. There was something kind of nice about being able to remain comfortably ignorant of what might be over the next hill. Don't want to ride over that hill and see? You never have to know! It worked for that game. Especially, maybe, for me in that game.
But it's not as if I actively hate Fallout's hundreds of question marks. It's a different style, and we can definitely discuss it, but I'm not sure it's a style I like more or less, necessarily.
Well, true. You enjoyed (we both enjoyed) the likes of DAI more. That said, the magpie (and the encouragement to magpie) resulted in more than just mutual mockery. It, at times, actively derailed narrative momentum. There have been many a game, good games, where we were all good blog wise, everything themey, all good, and then for, like, three or four days straight we're all "I got nothing. Well, I have this flag, these fragments, and Miss April 1967."
Which, yes, I get is partly my confusion as to why to litter a story heavy game with silly collectibles in the first place, but still. Encouraging people towards silly collectibles can derail narrative flow and, for all of its flaws, for all of the ways it sabotaged its own narrative flow, you can't say that RDR2 sabotaged its narrative flow by encouraging us to go get silly collectibles.
I shall keep an eye on this.
But now, I'm gonna go install it.
That is very true. It did work very well in terms of narrative. Though, again, this was as much about the fact that neither of us CARED about the collectibles, as that the collectibles didn't exist. We could easily have spent an extra 300 hours ignoring the narrative while we hunted for dinosaur bones and rock paintings and legendary fish, if we'd been so inclined.
But certainly the difference is that RDR2 kept those collectibles out of sight unless you actively cared enough to go look for them, whereas some other games (including, in the past, the AC franchise) have sprinkled icons for them all over the map, making it difficult to just ignore them. The way it was so very, very easy to ignore dinosaur bones when I had absolutely no clue where to look or what to look for. Man, that WAS pretty great.
And this did make it a lot easier for those of us were more interested in the story to just follow the story. Because magpie is a real affliction, damn it! I see question marks, I have to go check them out. Even when they are 99.9% certain to be nothing I care about. So yeah, props to RDR2 for that design choice. (Although it might have been somewhat frustrating for people who DID want to hunt everything, but didn't necessarily want to spend the rest of their lives doing so.)
We've talked about this before, and maybe what we really want is a way to toggle those collectibles/sidequests/etc. icons on and off on the map. We've seen variations on this ability to customize maps in games before, so it's not really a huge technological challenge. I think I remember TW3 giving me some choices about what I wanted to see on the map?
One should be able to toggle.
EXCELLENT T SHIRT!!!!
This game is taking forever to install…..Probably those lady animations.
You are playing as a woman, yes?
Ha! Undoubtedly it's all those complicated female animations slowing you down. And yes, I am playing as Kassandra, rather than Alexios, and I'll give them credit, once you get it installed, the female character IS actually able to move! I'm so impressed with what they've managed to achieve.
One day we'll stop mocking them for that.
Kassandra. With a K. Because of kourse.
We shall never stop mocking, for we are the internet.
(We've fallen behind, T SHIRT wise.)
Ok! Played some games!
I'm already confused.
Let's see….I, what….
Did the battle of 300 or something. Buttons were mashed. Didn't die. Fought the next guy. He glowed sometimes. Buttons were mashed. Didn't die. Not sure what I did. Already confused.
Met the two assassin hipsters who gave me game options I can change later. Am I supposed to know who they are?
Then got confused. Map is confusing. Eagle is confusing. HORSE is confusing.
Basically, I just got the horse and now they've taken the girl. Am I supposed to rush? Cuz so many question marks…..
The fuck is with the eagle?
And, as for horse, I think I already lost it. I picked one, then it was all "They have the kid!" and I said "SHIT, MAN! I'm comin'!" I got on the horse and…well…it handles a little differently than Roach did and pretty soon I was flying over cliffs into level five bandit camps and I died. I reloaded, and there were the three horses in the stables, couldn't get one, already had the "find kid" quest, decided to walk. Probably bugged the game already.
I miss Roach.
What does the eagle do besides make things more confusing? Isn't there just some good ol' fashioned assassin's sight or eagle vision or some shit?
So, on the idea of icons, did you play "guided" or "explorer?" Cuz I picked "guided," and MAN there's guided shit all over the place. Should I change?
(As an aside, Malaka is a pretty great swear.)
I lost the horse too! Went to find the girl, stopped to talk to a guy sitting by a cave, turned back around, and the horse was gone. I just walked the rest of the way, but it turns out you can whistle for your horse (I think by holding the up directional? but I might be misremembering, it could be a different directional) and it will show up, so try that. And the hint says "if your horse is badly injured he won't come back for a while, but once he's had a chance to rest, he'll come when you whistle," or something, so don't worry about killing it.
Which horse did you pick? I picked Phobos, because he's nimble. And also, apparently, scary.
I am still in the "pushed some buttons, not really sure what I'm doing, but didn't die" stage myself. Just…hit some buttons. Eventually it will probably become more clear which buttons are actually useful to hit. That's my plan. Pretty much right now I know R1 is good, that's the basic attack, and square is dodge. I use those a lot. And the R1-L1 combo to parry, I like that. Everything else, I'll worry about later.
I feel like the eagle will possibly become more useful later–did you get the bit where they tell you how to see through its eyes, so you can scout the territory ahead? I found that mostly just confusing, but I can imagine that it might actually be helpful if you wanted to see which side of the building had more guards on it, or whatever.
Basically, you're doing great. I'm still a bit confused myself, but the scenery is pretty and we'll figure it out.
As for the map, I also chose guided, which I think–in an uncanny reference back to our earlier conversation–is the choice that puts a lot of icons and question marks on your map, instead of just letting you roam around and find things or not. I guess that really wasn't a spoiler, to mention that the game we're playing kind of does exactly the thing we were talking about, but you hadn't loaded it yet! I irrationally didn't feel I could give away details!
So…I guess the main thing is, I went the lots-of-icons route, but maybe you could go the no-(or limited, perhaps)-icons route and we could compare.
Oh. Well. Ok. I was a little worried, though, as ALL THREE horses were still there in the stable when I reloaded.
I don't care that much. No horse will replace Roach.
I picked…uh….the one on the right. I picked the one on the right. On the right. A warrior's horse! Or something.
I did the "Hit L1 and X to bull rush!" bit when I was SPARTA!!!! but I guess I could only do that then (or when I get the skill someday). That was handy. Until I couldn't do it any more. Then, less handy.
Well….I got close to the vineyard, and it was all "Your target is close! Hit up to call [whatever the fuck it's called]." So I hit up and WHAMMO! BIRD! To which I said "The fuck? I'm a bird?" And it had some controls, and I could fly and look at shit, which led to more icons, and I was confused.
Then I got a little closer and it told me to do it again, and I was all "No way, game, that was some fucked up shit," but I did it anyway and then it told me about the "golden circle" and all that and I found the guy.
I kinda knew where he was in the first place……but hey. Bird.
Scouting territory? Yeah…that's gonna be something. I'm not that spatial, so trying to say "Ok, so….if that's what the bird saw….then the guard must over there…" will likely be "I think that's what the bird saw so…no..wait…so then the guards would be over oh, no, here they are, I'm dead." At best. It's likely going to be "Ok…so..if that's what the bird saw…wait, I don't think it's…where am I? Why….shit, I'm going the wrong way…I…hang on…welcome to Lemoyne? That's not even in the GAME!"
Hmm. I'll stick with this a while. I think I'm just in shock cuz we went from RDR2 to full Ubisoft. Full Ubisoft is a shock.
Though it was telling that it said that "explorer" was "how it should be experienced." Maybe I'll switch.
Oh, wait…actually I think I picked 'Explorer' because I remember being swayed by the implicit judgment in "the way the game should be experienced."
"I don't want this game to look down on me!" I thought. "Especially since I already went with 'normal' difficulty instead of 'hard'!"
Do you have question marks in your 'radar' when you look around? Or are they already icons? Maybe that's what it's about. Maybe I have question marks I'm supposed to 'explore,' and you have icons to indicate that you already know what's there (assuming you could remember what the icons indicate, which I know I certainly can't).
So much for my theory that maybe this game was giving us the option of a more RDR2 experience…maybe it's only giving us the option of a more FO4 experience.
Unless I actually did choose guided despite the game's judgy commentary, but that really rings a bell that makes me think "oh yeah, I did what it wanted me too" not "I rebelliously went my own way!"
Dude, thus far, I look like a question mark factory exploded in ancient Greece. There's health icons, there's quest info, there's SO MUCH SHIT. But yes, they are on the radar.
I'll fiddle with it. I did notice (as I go through EVERY OPTION before starting a game cuz of my ex) that you can pick and choose what parts of the UI are up there, and they all start "on," so I guess you can shut up some of that on screen noise regardless of which mode you pick.
I don't know. Whole thing is confusing.
SO CONFUSING.
But pretty! And we're going to have fun sneaking around and assassinating people! And there were some roleplayish bits with conversation options that "may change the story"!
I let those two thugs who came to beat her up at the beginning go. Because I'm nice like that.
As did I. Once again, we won't have many notes to compare.
Except on the romance. You'll likely end up with someone different than I will. And hey! Look at all the armored dudes! A goodly portion have to be broody! You're in paradise!
Yeah, the story variations are going to be all about who gets romanced.
Oh–I would be remiss if I did not salute this game for its nod towards male nudity, however.
Game: I salute you.
ALREADY??????
Malaka, for real?
Well…depends on what you mean by "for real."
I take it you haven't seen this nudity. It's quite visible. You'll get there.
I was going to let the kids watch a little of it later on. Should I….not?
No, you're fine. So far the game is very family friendly. In a murdery way. The nudity is just a statue. That's why I was being all coy about whether or not it was "for real."
I mean, it's really in the game!–but it's not actually a "real" character who's naked.
It's a very naked statue, though. You'll see.
You probably already have, in fact…didn't we get a swing-by of the statue's butt during the opening eagle-flight sequence?
We did. That we did.
I rather liked that sequence. Cool opening.
And timely! We have a nesting pair of golden eagles nearby. They were both over the house eyeing the children the other day. Probably telling someone where the guards are. Good thing they're so confusing.
"OK, the bird said the door was on the left, so…if that's the bird's left from the air, that means…wait, which direction were they going?"
"Let's just go rob some other house. This one probably doesn't even have any hidden tombs in the basement."
Bird: Ok, the house we want is the one with the frazzled father and the crazy assed kids.
Assassin: Ok, put it on the mini map.
(935874298574543 question marks later)
Assassin: Shit.
And that's why you live in your town! It all becomes clear. You tolerate half-day Tuesday because it throws off assassins!
No. No it is not. By about 245 I'd welcome the assassins.
Notably, I have not seen the eagles on half day Tuesday. Even strong, magnificent birds of prey are all "Oh HELL no" when it comes to that.
OK, so it's not worth it, but I can see how you might have imagined it would be, before you got there.
You're eyeing the house, checking out the neighborhood, thinking "yeah, this'll confuse assassins, sounds good, what's a little half-day Tuesday compared to protecting my family from an ancient order of trained killers?"
It was only later, at around 2:45 on that first Tuesday, that the horrible truth dawned on you.
More like 235……..
Christ, Tuesday.
And I'm out of smoked tequila.
Come for me eagles!
You have a week. You still have time to go out for some more tequila! Or to stand next to the biggest landmark you can find so even the eagles can't confuse things.
"That thing. He's right next to that thing."
Of course, the assassins will probably get stuck in traffic on the way.
It's Hard to Come Back
character, nudity, plot, Red Dead Redemption 2, romance, theme
Spoilers for Red Dead Redemption 2
OK…back.
Did some. Still processing.
Busted John out of prison. Fun little mission, but not sure about themeage. Weird that Dutch wasn't happy that they busted him out.
An interesting pattern with Dutch (and one that could be related to certain leaders of the day) is that before anything happens he says "I'll have a plan any second now" and then when someone else does something he gets mad and says "I HAD a plan!" Dude, you did? You came up with it as I was doing something? He's always full of shit, really. One wonders if he always was.
Well, the two times we did see him with a plan, one was pointless and vindictive (killing Bronte, which accomplished nothing but revenge and got the law down on them, the very thing he's mad at Arthur for with John) and the other wasn't much of a plan at all (bandannas and yippie kai aie! in broad daylight). Also reminds me of certain present events.
But then….met up with the lovers again. Did you meet up with the lovers again? Got that note from Penelope, and couldn't resist.
Went back to Braithewaite manor and, well, I guess the fact that Lady Braithewaite's burned body is just there waiting to be looted is a good tip off she died. But strolled in and got dead. So did the sneaky next time and did the mission.
Did you do that? Cuz…..I'm not sure what to make of that. I kinda have a lot to say about that. The more I think about it, the more I have to say.
But after that, found myself way the fuck out by Riggs station, middle of nowhere, and, for some reason, dude wouldn't sell me a train ticket. So rode to Strawberry to get a train ticket, and there's no trains there. So rode back and THEN he sold me a ticket. Took the train to Annesburg, decided to do Downes' mission, decided that might take a while, called it a day.
I'll do that next.
So you do the lovers?
Dude, I know! "I HAD a plan! And YES I came up with it just as you were doing that, I do all my best thinking when people are taking actions I didn't officially approve! Which is why…uh…people should not take actions so I can think…look, the point is, I was GOING to save him any day now."
Whatever, man.
And yes, the lovers. "Ah, Boston. Good. They'll like you up there."
Thanks! I think. It was amusing that Penelope just straight-up robbed her family and took off. And Arthur's reaction: "they're not chasing us because they're upset about the romance, they're mad because she robbed them blind! Good for her, I guess."
The bit I found oddly entertaining was driving the train. There was no real challenge or danger to it, you just…drive the train. And ring the bell! And blow the whistle! Made me feel kind of like I imagine Arthur might have felt: "hey, I'm driving a train, this is kind of fun! Whooooo-whooooo!" And…then you're done and you move on. It was both completely pointless, and quite pleasant.
And then they offer you some jewels, and I turned them down and got honor, although I have no idea why it would have been dishonorable to accept them. I mean, it was payment for a job done–why is that wrong? But I was thinking "nah, these kids probably need it more than I do, considering I have $3000 in my pocket and am dying and all." Maybe that's the honor: thinking of someone else rather than yourself.
And what was interesting is that people are starting to go "Whatever, man." Indeed, the more people make other people go "whatever, man," the more Dutch screams "DISLOYAL!"
Metaphor's getting a little upsetting.
Good for her robbing her family at a time when Arthur is starting to doubt his own family. We've talked before about how the Rhodes families are kinda like the gang. We've seen the families and Dutch prattle on endlessly about loyalty. Here, we have Penelope being totally disloyal, and Arthur's reaction is, as you say, "good for her."
"I didn't know you could drive a train." "Neither did I…."
The only real stressful bit was that Roach, for some reason, insisted on following it. I couldn't have dealt with running Roach over with a train. Too traumatic. But he was ok, so it's all good.
I did the same thing with the jewelry. But on that, the thing I kept thinking on was the moment before you decide to take it: Arthur's there holding the bracelet and says, half in awe, half in disbelief: "The Braithewaite treasure…" Turns out there was (some) gold there, right? And after all the fighting and scheming and bloodshed (shit, she even talks about unnecessary, stupid bloodshed on the way to the train), here he is finally holding it. And why? Because Penelope and Beau, the naive, weak dreamers stole it, not the gang. Moreover, Arthur has it not because he pulled a gun or threatened them or beat them, but because she is giving it to him freely because he helped her. He helped two people find love, and THAT'S why he's finally holding the Braithwaite gold. I think, in the way that line was delivered (as an aside, dude who plays Arthur is really good at these subtleties), Arthur finally gets it, that maybe, just maybe, doing the right thing is what works.
I think it's good storytelling that that moment had to happen after Arthur knows he's gonna die. His realization that THIS was the way to the treasure, helping the lovers, comes too late. By the time it dawns that maybe killing everything that moves isn't the best possible way, he can't really change.
And before you go all "Hey, Butch, wait. We killed a lot of people here. It's not maybe 'the right thing,'" I'd say "But Femmy, the gang would not have thought 'Hey, maybe the way to get all those hicks' money is to help these kids.' They'd have dismissed that, as they thought that killing everyone and burning fields and houses and everything was the only way. Compared to that, this is the right thing.'" Shit, admit it. Even we, as players, thought this was, at best, an amusing diversion. We both said "Of course there's no gold." Turns out we were wrong. Turns out we got the gold….at the end of the quest we thought was, at best, an amusing diversion.
Yes, at this point, the only way to be 'loyal' seems to be to either sit quietly without complaint, or actively reassure Dutch how awesome he is, while he broods and speechifies and probably steers them all straight to disaster. Troubling, indeed.
And it's true, the Braithwaite Treasure did exist after all, and as you say, the gang never came near it with their plans and playing one side against the other while getting played themselves…but Arthur, by helping out a couple of people with no real expectation of reward, gets his hands on it eventually.
And now he's dying and can't do much with it. It's an interesting mechanic, as well, that Arthur CAN'T simply fund Dutch's plans with his own earnings, or I'd think "well, maybe he should have taken it to help the gang out." As we've said before, at least he could call Dutch's bluff, if there were ever a specific amount named, but there never is–no tally of "$350 gained out of $10,000 needed to head to Tahiti" or anything. I regularly donated all the loot I picked up to the gang's treasury (easier than going to a fence), and the book neatly shows everything I gave, but the total, once you've upgraded camp as much as you can, doesn't seem to mean anything and eventually I kind of stopped caring.
"I can give and give and never get any closer to pleasing Dutch, so why bother?"
I have no idea where they got an idea for such a character. Nope. No idea.
Right! The treasure was an unexpected irony. Arthur gets it by saying "Aww, what the hell, I like these folks," where when Dutch tries, and underestimates everyone, not only does he fail, he gets Sean killed and uproots his gang.
And "why bother?" is, oddly, the most hopeful part of the metaphor, right? I mean, if Dutch does have a real world equivalent, right? Here's his followers realizing there is no pleasing him, no way he's ever getting them to "Tahiti….."
I'm also starting to think that the mechanic you mentioned isn't there because Dutch has no intention at all of taking anyone to Tahiti. He is, after all, the best dressed one, right? He's a con man. Why do we believe his intentions? It wouldn't surprise me at all if he just, at some point, says "See ya later, suckers!"
In real life, demagogues often try to enrich themselves at the expense of their most ardent supporters. So I've heard.
I have also heard this! But you never know…history teaches us many things that we may be better off ignoring. He's probably only the best-dressed (and the one with the nicest tent) because he…uh…needs that extra comfort to keep his brain working on all those brilliant plans he's totally thinking up on a daily basis. Seems legit.
Con men only con OTHER people! Not us! Not his biggest fans!
Definitely not going to be the ruin of us all. No sir.
And I'm certainly not weeping quietly at the keyboard right now in abject terror, that's for sure.
Yeah, we've gone dark after vacation. We gotta cheer up.
I was just in Nashville!
Food! Booze! There. I feel better.
I have company coming! I have to clean things and set up beds!
I'm not sure if I feel BETTER, but I'm distracted.
Perhaps that's enough, in these troubled times.
Stop being dark, dammit!
At least you'll have booze.
I will have booze!
It's gonna be great. We're going to love dying in the fiery wreckage of our democracy.
I mean, hacking up blood from TB. Whatever.
Ooh, ooh, I do have something less dark: we went to the circus while you were on vacation! The in-laws wanted to take us since the kids had never been, and Mr. O' and I were both pretty unenthusiastic, but it was actually a lot of fun.
I had forgotten that it's just kind of cool to watch human beings do weird, improbable things. No special effects except costumes and some lights, just people juggling lots of blocks, or leaping recklessly around on trampolines, or contorting into strange and unlikely positions while balancing on each others' heads. Good old-fashioned, simple entertainment, you know? It was weirdly heartwarming, for something garishly colored that cost hundreds of dollars (which I fortunately did not personally pay).
And I kept thinking of Arthur cheering at the vaudeville shows, and you at the honky-tonk, and wanting to yell out "woooooooeee! Those guys can JUMP!" or something.
So yeah. Circus. Thumbs up.
I, too, like circuses. There is something rather heartwarmingly, old timey about it all.
You SO should've cheered like that. Turn to people all "You seein' this?"
Probably shouldn't have said "Show us them knickers!" though.
"You seein' this?!" would have been awesome.
I do like circuses. I even like the weird French ones!
I can't believe you missed a chance to cheer like that.
I have never been to the weird French circus, but would probably like it. Especially if I remembered to cheer like Arthur. Weird French circus folk LOVE that!
They do! Especially if you shout "Dance the Can can!"
Ok, for the sake of us all, played some more.
Helped Downes' son, helped Downes. I guess.
Not sure what to make of that. Quest was called "Do not seek absolution," and maybe I haven't been absolved. They just took my ninety bucks and left. I hope.
I also helped a widow learn to hunt and gave her a chance. I got jumped by Murphrees right after. She'll probably get killed. She will, won't she?
I don't know what to make of Downes. I am intrigued that this all was very much a white, skippable bit.
What did you take from it?
I thought it was very much about Arthur trying–not to put things right, because as he himself keeps saying, there's no way for him or anyone else to do that–but to make things a little bit better. To BE a little bit better as a person than he was when he first met these people.
He's dying, and he realized he's spent most of his life hurting people, and he's trying to do something different.
He is. That he is.
What did you make of the line "This country is man unleashed?" Someone certainly was proud of themselves for that one, but I'm not certain if it's true. Or what it means.
And what did you make of the fact you could skip all of this?
It is very interesting that a lot of Arthur's trying to be better is stuff you can skip. So…you don't HAVE to try to be better.
Maybe your personal reaction to learning you're dying of TB isn't to try to be slightly better in your remaining days than you were in the ones leading up to the discovery. Maybe you figure hey, the damage is done, no point worrying about it now. Let's skip these 'helping people' things and just rob stagecoaches and shoot people full time!
As for this country being man unleashed…I dunno. This, unlike other countries, is where all the impulses of humanity (both good and bad?) are allowed free rein? I don't know if that's true, or if it's just the kind of wild boasting that's to be expected in a very young country that's growing rapidly and (in some quarters) is full of its own imagined destiny.
It was one of those lines that someone thought sounded really deep. It was even delivered with MUCH GRAVITAS. Slightly overdone gravitas, you ask me. Or even if you don't ask me.
So all I have left is Micah. Is it long? Like, long long?
Oh, you probably have a lot more left than Micah. Have you talked to Strauss? You gotta talk to Strauss.
But if I recall correctly, this particular bit of Micah is not that long. It's one of those 'first step in a series' things, and later ones will be longer, but I THINK the first one is pretty short.
Although it's been a while, so I apologize in advance if that's completely wrong.
I have not talked to Strauss. He's had a white thing in camp for ages. I figured it was more debtors, and fuck that. I ignored him in Shady Belle, too. He hasn't had a yellow thing in forever.
This is the bit of Micah in Annesburg. The first bit of Micah in Annesburg.
It is more debtors, but you might want to do it anyway. It's actually related to the theme we've been discussing.
Or if you're in a hurry and want to continue to say screw it, that's fair–I can just tell you what the story was.
I'm pretty sure the Annesburg part of Micah was fairly short, at least. I remember meeting him there and I don't think it took up that much time.
All right, I'm on it.
Really? I FINALLY blow something off and I shouldn't?
Next you'll be telling me to go back to Strawberry to do bounties.
You HAVEN'T DONE the Strawberry bounties?! My god, man! That means you've missed the entire 12-part nude orgy storyline!
Ha. I think ha.
I mean, I missed it too.
But yeah, that's exactly what this game would do, wouldn't it? The time you decide to skip something is the time it actually has implications.
Ok….which one of us is going to break down and google just to make sure that bounty isn't the bit with nudity?
Cuz I STILL haven't seen the promised nudity.
I haven't seen any nudity either. It probably WAS just the grainy photos you found in that campsite or whatever.
But I think I did all the bounties, so it can't have been that.
Maybe there's just a big nude scene after the credits or something.
OK, check this thread. Apparently there is limited potential to randomly see some naked people. I guess we both missed it.
https://gtaforums.com/topic/917855-esrb-says-nudity-where/
I knew you'd be the one to break down and google.
And to think this day started all dark and stuff.
I feel gypped. Our next game better have nudity.
You were right, I could not restrain myself.
Apparently there's even MALE NUDITY, though! This should have been my favorite game of all time! Equal opportunity random naked people!
And somehow I missed them all.
This is the final straw, game. I've had it with you. RAGEQUIT FOREVER.
I mean, if I weren't already done.
You know, you missing the male nudity in this game, given your experience, makes perverse, perfect sense.
I know, it really does just put the perfect finishing touch on my entire experience of this game. Every possible thing goes wrong, repeatedly…and I missed all the male nudity.
Siiiiigh.
I have to be close. I kinda feel I'm doing endgame stuff, wrapping up the Downes, wrapping up Penelope. When you start wrapping up the side shit that's when you're about to wrap up the main shit. Right?
Except you did all this long ago and you only just finished.
We, at some point, do need to discuss what we do next. I keep thinking we need to do that soon, but…….
You have AC:O in the house. I'd be willing to do that. Might be a nice, light, refreshing change.
I have to be honest, I'm a little confused myself about why this game didn't wrap up a few hours before it did.
But we'll talk later.
Fancy Dress Christmas Miracles
fashion, food, holidays, mechanics, nudity, Pokemon TCG
No spoilers. Likely minimal posts this week–kids on break, family stuff, etc. Enjoy your holidays if you're celebrating any holidays, everyone!
Well, good thing we were smart on Friday, cuz today's gonna be dumb, and this is pretty much our last shot for the year. Band concert last night (they really do have a good band program in this town), so everyone went to bed late and got up early cuz we all have colds. Kids were even too tired to fight. That's tired.
I was so tired I typed "Thursday" into the email address and your name into the subject line.
It's gonna be that kind of day.
I wish I could do a heist then go to a naked fancy dress ball.
Ok, there's today's starting discussion question: Can there be a fancy dress ball and nudity at the same time?
(Help.)
This time of year, being smart every other post is still miles above every logical measure of achievement.
I wrapped video games yesterday. Held them in my hands.
Then I played a couple of rounds of Pokemon. It's…not the same. There's very little narrative in a monster-battle card game. (Or in a monster-collecting phone game, granted! But at least that one is using time I wouldn't be engrossed in narrative anyway.)
Mr. O' is actually getting kind of into it, which is great–he and O'Jr. can nerd out together. I think it's OK, but I can't seem to get that excited about it. The whole deck-building thing kind of loses me. I mean, I get why it's fun, there's a lot of entertainment in mixing and matching and finding just the right combinations if you're into that…it just feels like inventory management to me, and I tend to be kind of indifferent to that. I'm never that interested in finding THE PERFECT armor and weapons for a character either, you know?
Just gimme something that works OK (ideally a shotgun or a spell that lets me set things on fire) and let's go do stuff!
Similarly, I'm starting to feel like, give me a Pokemon deck already made and I'll play, but I can't get bothered to tinker with it much, and so obviously in a game that's all about tinkering and building, my deck is going to suck if I don't work on it, and then I'll always lose to people who bothered to put in the time and find the right cards for their theme and all. Which is fair! Not complaining. Just saying I don't think I'm ever going to get super involved in this.
I'm sure you're surprised.
But hey, check it out, that was actually semi-thoughtful commentary on a game, even if not a video game. Pulling relevance from the jaws of insanity!
It's how we do.
Or else we just go insane. That's also a legitimate option.
Also, in response to your starting question, I'm going to rule that you COULD have a fancy dress ball and nudity at the same time, in at least two ways I can think of offhand.
1) Literally have some people naked and some people in fancy dress at the same time.
2) Apply strategically placed fancy dress (and decorative masks, that makes any dress fancy) that leave certain areas exposed. You know…corsets that lace up to just under the breasts, jeweled chaps, etc. Just decorate the clothes you do have until they're 'fancy' and leave enough uncovered to count as 'nudity.' (Technically, of course, we could argue someone isn't 'nude' if they're wearing any clothes at all, but using the movie/game definition of nudity, which basically just means 'you can see naughty bits,' I think it's fine.)
There's a third way that stretches the definition of "at the same time" to include "within the same scene," since you could have a bunch of people START in fancy dress and then END UP nude. But it could work depending on how strictly we interpret the question.
The fact that YOU haven't already thought of these and several other ways to make this happen is a sign of how truly tired you are. Honestly, I'm starting to worry about you, man.
Take a break! Reload TW2 just long enough to enjoy the warm cakes! Something.
I was pretty surprised at how we did on Friday. Where'd that come from? Ah, well. Fleeting intelligence is better than total stupidity.
Was it….was it amazing? Holding games in your hands?
This Pokemon thing is a fundamental difference between you and Mr. O. I'm sure, while playing Divinity, he was missing all sorts of good bloggage, but was poring over every stat. It's how he do. Junior's the same way, which is why I think he's going to get religious on Skyrim. And why he loves Pokemon, and Magic, which is even moreso.
And I'm so very surprised that you don't.
I was even the same way with Gwent. I didn't monkey with my deck. I got it so it worked fine, then just learned how to outplay everyone. Didn't have all four decks, just my trusty shotgun/Northern Realms deck. But I think Pokemon and magic are too complex to get away with that, so fuck that noise.
Jeweled chaps. We've hit a rock bottom so rocky we're mentioning jeweled chaps.
I'm worried about me, too. I should have been on that. Though, I never would have come up with jeweled chaps.
Insanity: a legitimate option, and the one we so often take.
Ok, back to the kitchen with me. Can't take a break!
Oh–Here's something smart!
COOKING TIP!
Three good words in recipes: Add additional rum.
Three bad words in recipes: Push through sieve.
My hands hurt.
Push through sieve = bad. Noted.
But dude. Jeweled chaps are the sparkliest, most glittering part of rock bottom. We should have hit here a long time ago.
And yes, I think you're right…people who love settlement-building and crafting and all that stuff are more likely to love Pokemon deck-building. More power to them!
They can play with Butch Jr. next time we hang out. A long, long time from now, when we've had a chance to put this month well behind us.
On a vaguely related note, I had someone at work call someone else "rules-lawyer-y" about some obscure technical point of thesis formatting. Players of games! They dwell among us.
That's an awesome person.
Push through sieve = Very bad. Good thing I don't have a game to play, cuz I'd miss it. Hands hurt.
Yummy recipe, though. Lots of meat. And eggs. And butter.
I suppose if you're gonna hit rock bottom, at least do it wearing jeweled chaps.
BEST T SHIRT EVER!!!!!
If there's a better note to close the year on, I don't want to know about it.
Some Days are Slow Days
loot, nudity, Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Minimal spoilers for a location in Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Nothing but nothing.
Tell me you have something.
Very little.
Here's what I've got: that underwater locked chest, in the submerged palace with the piranhas? You don't want to go back for that. I mean, there was a bit of gold or something and some XP, but you have to swim all the way over there and then all the way back out of that place again. I thought maybe there'd be a way to backtrack and avoid some of the swimming, but no.
So in case you were thinking about that, I've saved you some misery. Just looking out for you, dude.
True friendship, that. Though the chances of me going back to do extra swimming were slim and none. I mean, shit, I didn't even swim to get the playboys. Or I wouldn't have, if I had had to.
Oh, did I forget to mention the locked chests contain Playboys? My bad.
Meh. I bet they were REALLY chaste in 2432 BCE.
No, they're actually the same issues that Mafia 3 used, only it's all the articles and none of the centerfolds. And unlike Lincoln, Lara comments on every single article, so it gets kind of old.
She likely reads them, like journals.
You need something to read, on those slow evenings around the campfire.
So Much to Say, So Little Daylight
character, combat, gender, Mafia 3, morality, nudity, story, theme
Spoilers for plot points in Mafia 3
Glad Halloween's over.
And Olivia's dead. And, what do you know? I didn't kill her! Of course.
Mrs. McP is home today and I have to take Junior to a thing tonight so I won't have much time to play. So we can save the drug stuff and the party and what THAT was all about for some other time. Today, we're talking about gender, because of course we are.
Now….here we go.
On one hand, I was impressed (if that's the right word) that they had the guts to toy with the whole "And now she dies quietly" thing when Lincoln puts his hand on her wound to wake her up, chokes her all "Oh no…where is the guy?" That was more than I thought they'd do. But, again, someone else, offscreen. And then, THEN the whole diatribe from Donovan about how Lincoln would NEVER kill a woman complete with a story saying "Really, REALLY he wouldn't."
I am of two minds. On one hand, violence against women is a terrible scourge of society today. Society is, of course, grappling with such issues daily, in public, and graphically. Violence against women is bad. And, as someone who is staunchly in the corner of the good guys in the MeToo movement, glorification and encouragement of violence against women is something that makes me uncomfortable.
HOWEVER, these are games and, in games, violence happens. By insulating women from violence, by saying "It's ok to kill big, bad, MANLY Kevin but not a delicate, pretty woman," that's playing into the "weaker sex" bullshit that, one could argue, is at the root of a lot of the very problems that MeToo is addressing today. Safely wrapping the pretty (white) woman in bubble wrap and protecting her from the big bad (but not that bad) black man is EXACTLY WHAT THE SOUTHERN UNION WANTS TO DO.
But then I go back around and I'm all "But do I want to see a big, strong man kill the hell out of a wounded woman while I'm supposed to be cheering him on? Cuz……no."
So I don't know. I think they certainly tried to thread the needle. It was more violent than I thought it was gonna be, but they ALSO protected her.
Indeed, after you told me I could shoot Tommy, I tried to shoot Olivia there. I did. Not because I'm a monster, but because you were all "I showed Tommy some mercy." Ok, she was suffering, etc.
You can't kill her. She won't die. Nope.
So I don't know. I'm gonna plop all this in your lap, as you are a woman, and you have a better perspective on this. The last thing I want is to mansplain. I feel ooky enough already.
Yup. She is dead, and we didn't kill her. As you predicted.
And dude, I tried to shoot her too! Because she was in pain, sure, but also because I didn't trust her not to spring back to life and find a gun of her own. I've seen a movie before, man.
And…yeah. All the stuff you said. Having him jabbing at her bullet wound to get more information is farther than you kind of thought they'd go: they didn't have him completely tiptoe around her like "oh, I could never do harm to a LADY." (And then we have Donovan coming in and saying essentially just that…though I guess all Donovan really said was he wouldn't KILL a woman, which leaves completely open the option of torturing one.)
And it was odd that Lincoln's explanation was "you ain't worth the time." Uh…it doesn't take that much time to shoot someone in the head, dude. Even if we figure he means she's not worth the time it would take to set up a dramatic scene like burning Remy Duvall on a cross or hanging Doucet from a Ferris wheel–he could still just kill her quickly like he did with the lesser bosses, or the guy running the Southern Union slave racket.
So I don't buy that it was about time, suggesting that Donovan's explanation is semi-true, and Lincoln does actually have a philosophical objection to killing women (though not to rubbing salt in their open wounds–which he would totally have done if he'd had salt handy).
And then we're left with, why does he want to pretend it's about time, then? Is it not manly to just state that you don't want to kill women? Or is this in fact a cold burn on the entire female gender, like "women aren't worth the time it takes to kill them"–you're so pathetic and meaningless a threat that even the three seconds it would take to stab you would be time better spent looking for a manly Kevin to stab instead? Or maybe he thinks if anyone finds out, they'll exploit this weakness by sending only women assassins from now on?
Though, also interesting was the way she found the mob stuff "so EXCITING!" She's lying there dying and reminiscing about how thrilling and (basically) sexy it all was–Donovan also mentions this–and maybe it's just refusing to play along, when Lincoln walks away instead of giving her an exciting mob death. As he said, "there's nothing exciting about the mob," or however he phrased it. He's not going to prop up her fantasy. (Though he was happy to indulge Remy Duvall's desire for racist martyrdom.)
And then, as you say, Olivia does wind up violently dead, but he/we didn't do it. And, as you say and as we've talked about before, would we really WANT to have done it? Do we WANT to play a game where we cheerfully kill women?
Generally…no. Unless–and I bring up this every time we have this conversation–it's a Bethesda game, because nobody does gender equality in Kevins like Bethesda. (Horizon Zero Dawn was also pretty good that way.) If half your randits are women, I will cheerfully murder them all day long, because when you have enough women, your treatment of any particular one becomes less of a Giant Statement About Gender and more about what happened to one character.
Who was trying to kill me, so I killed the hell out of her instead and probably carried her crappy armor around hoping to sell it until I got overencumbered and abandoned it in the road in a giant pile of other crappy loot. That's Bethesda for you.
This game, I give props for having a fair number of women characters, and for giving those women jobs that are relevant to the action. Cassandra is a good character, and I like Nicki, although not her animations which tended to be creepy (did you have the conversation with Nicki where she says she's dating a woman? guess that thing with her and Lincoln was just friendship), and Alma was cool, and Gina Kowalski the car thief lady was pretty badass. But they don't have so many women that they can casually kill them off without it seeming like "hey, this was the part of the story that was about killing a woman."
Olivia Marcano was the only woman villain, so they can't avoid that being the story. Hell, we've been talking about that story since we learned Olivia existed. Is she going to die? How is she going to die? I bet she dies offscreen! There's BAGGAGE around this.
Anyway. I thought they threaded the needle reasonably well considering the tricky territory they had to walk through. Olivia was bad, she was part of the Marcano family we're sworn to destroy, it would seem weird if she just walked away from the whole thing. And making it be the Marcanos themselves turning on her was an interesting symbol of how the family empire is collapsing, as well as a tidy way to say "here, she's dead but you didn't have to kill her."
I personally would also have been OK with Lincoln just shooting her (as I said, I tried), or even making some dramatic statement with her corpse as long as it didn't involve any grotesque sexual overtones (hello Lara Croft impaled on things). Wrapping her in a Confederate flag and smothering her in a pile of money or something could have worked. But as we know, he didn't have the time.
I think they would have been able to pull off "this guy kills his enemies and she's his enemy and there's no special gender-based antipathy going on," because in that regard, Lincoln seems like an OK dude. I mean, he treats the women he works with politely, doesn't hit on them or treat them like his servants or anything. He doesn't come across like a misogynist, so he could get a pass for equal-opportunity enemy-murdering. Sometimes your enemies are women! It happens!
On the other hand, I understand why they went the other way, and in general I guess I would vote for erring on the side of caution, because…there's just so much potential for the "haha, I finally got to kill that bitch" or whatever gender-based nastiness, and I'm not into it. So it's maybe a bit of a cop-out, but it's one that I understand and don't really hold against them.
Side excursion into the drugs, though, how about that orchestral version of "White Rabbit" playing while everyone's tripping on LSD? That was awesome.
You noticed the music! I'm so proud. That was amazing.
Excellent point about reaching a critical mass of women characters. I guess we're still hung up on violence against women in video games because we don't have a lot of games with a critical mass of women in them. Which is also a problem.
As for Lincoln not treating women as servants or not being a misogynist, how do you reconcile all this with the fact he runs prostitution and porn rings? That's kinda treating women as servants, dude.
Oh, and did you think that Donovan killed her? Who did? Marcano had no reason to. Lincoln didn't. Leaves Donovan.
Those women are…uh…independent contractors.
But yeah, the prostitution and porn rackets are tough to see as beacons of gender equality. I think the best you can do is "hey, these women need jobs. These jobs pay money. Women will take these jobs. Better our people run them than someone else."
Because we can optimistically imagine that under Lincoln's leadership everyone working in the rackets in whatever context is paid a fair wage and treated decently, right? I like to imagine that. So basically, someone's going to do it, better us than someone with even less interest in little topics like equality and justice.
Also, when I said "not treating women like servants" I was specifically thinking about the stories of men in business settings who assume all the women they see are there to make them coffee or whatever, rather than actually contributing to the work–I just meant that Lincoln treats the women he talks to about business as if they're contributing to the business. "How's the racket going, how many stills should I smash up now," etc., not "fetch me a drink, and let me speak to the man in charge!" or whatever. When we SEE him interacting with women, he treats them fairly.
Does that let him off the hook if, under his direction even if not his immediate supervision, women are suffering ill treatment in the brothels and on the porn sets? No. But like I said…I optimistically assume the prostitutes and porn actors of New Bordeaux make decent money and are treated like human beings doing a job.
The game doesn't tell us otherwise, after all!
As for Olivia…I gather you didn't get a certain scene yet that features a person saying "yeah, I killed her." So it's a mystery! But one that will be revealed.
Oh. No, no I did not get that scene.
I bet it's Donovan. Why'd he keep that guy around? He wants the land.
All will be revealed.
Well, I won't say "all." There are a number of things that have yet to be made clear.
But at least THAT will be revealed.
Yet to be? Still not finished?
We gotta talk about the LSD party, that we do.
And go more into depth about Olivia sexualizing violence and how often women in games are there to sexualize violence and why did she have to do that?
And also, what did you make of the scene where James is all "There won't be another Bobby Kennedy…another Dr. King. But there will always be another Sal Marcano (Long pause) Another Lincoln Clay" and he turns his back to the camera, and, thus, the player.
I'm not sure I've ever played another game that wants you to really, REALLY not like the hero. Or yourself.
Yeah, Olivia's fondness for the sexy thrilling mob violence was an interesting touch. I mean, she's not alone–pop culture kind of glamorizes the mob. I don't know to what extent that was true in 1968 (looks like The Godfather wasn't published until '69, but there were James Cagney movies and so forth before that), but assuming they did some research for the game, and that this was the case even then…she's not alone.
She is, though, sort of weirdly buying into/living out a fantasy instead of approaching it like a business. Sal's all about the money, but it's implied Olivia was just in it for the drama.
Father James' assessment was bleak, all right. "The good people who might have changed things are gone, and we're left with the violent ones who are just battling it out for territory"?
He REALLY doesn't think much of Lincoln's motivations (or, perhaps, the ultimate results of Lincoln's quest, which he's in a better position to evaluate than we are).
Which suggests that violence is not the answer, and also kind of says to the player "all your efforts were wasted. Things still suck."
Which…is a fair criticism considering all we've been doing is sitting there playing a game.
Fair, James. Harsh, but fair.
But that's also a little sexist. If Sal is in it for the money, and Remy's in it for devotion to a cause, a crazy cause, mind you, but a cause, that means that the woman is only in it for selfish and emotional reasons, not something that "matters." The game also established that anybody who has any kind of slightly abnormal sexual preferences must be evil and we're seeing more of that here. Not to mention the trope of the sexual woman being flawed. She's the only woman in the game who seems to have any interest in sex, and she's evil. Hell, it's the REASON she's evil.
That's a tad judgy.
By the way, are you finished?
Yeah, it is. As you say, the entire game is kind of judgy about sex that isn't Playboy centerfolds and Vargas pinups (which is a REALLY airbrushed and vanilla approach), and if non-vanilla men are all murderous perverts, there's no way they'd let a woman get away with any kind of unorthodox inclinations.
To the game's credit, it's not filled with titillating visits to strip clubs and stuff (as we discussed, when you do see naked women in-game, as opposed to the collectibles, it tends to be pretty unsexy). So many opportunities to dramatize women dancing and acting out sexuality for porn sets, and they didn't take them!
And no, I haven't finished, but this close to the end I think it's probably safe to say that there will be no in-game nudity on the part of any of the major characters. It's true that aside from Olivia (and possibly Nicki, dating a woman) none of the female characters seem to have any interest in sex, but it's also true that none of the male characters do either (aside from the "VIP" perverts and the nameless NPCs who frequent the brothel and buy stag films).
Lincoln? Vito? Burke? Emmanuel? Heck, even the villains…we never see Georgi or Sal or Lou or Tommy with half-naked women draped over them, or hanging out in strip bars, or any of the standard tropes for "these are just manly men chilling, and also an excuse to show you some nudity!"
This GAME doesn't seem to be that interested in sex. Which is funny considering its rating for nudity, and all the nude collectibles, but honestly, when do any actual characters do anything? Never. They don't even look at the magazines!
Really, it's a plain-vanilla, teenage-boy-in-the-'50s idea of sex: let's look at some pretty pictures of naked women and have done with it. Everything else is a criminal enterprise and/or a perversion.
Hmm. Good point about the bad guys. And Lincoln! Both, in other games, WOULD have sexy women draped all over them.
This game, so often, was a game of extremes. Good gameplay innovations, then stock shooting mechanics. Excellent levels, then tedium. And, really, its themes. In some ways, it's incredibly progressive, maybe the most progressive game I've ever played in how it goes there on race and politics. And then, as you say, when it comes to sex it's stuck in the fifties. And gender? It makes SOME waves at it (Cassandra and Nicki are good characters), but then falls back on tropes late (My predictions of Olivia dying off screen by someone else's hand were serious all along, and I'm not at all surprised I'm right).
I always like to hold out final judgments on games until they're over and done with, but man, I don't think I've ever had a game that whipsawed between extremes of how I feel about it week to week, day to day, even hour to hour.
Even with the themes.
combat, Mafia 3, nudity, politics, race, story, theme
Spoilers for some major plot points in Mafia 3
You coy devil, you.
Being all "Oh yeah, the slave auction was the Capital S Something" when you knew I was going to burn Remy Duvall on a cross.
On a damn cross.
Now THAT'S a Capital S Something, isn't it?
Olivia got a reprieve cuz I had to ponder that Capital S Something.
A lynching from a Ferris Wheel? One thing. But DAMN talk about a whole lot of symbolism… DAMN.
You first. I'm still pondering.
Oh, and I'm worried. Why? Cuz in the news reports, there's the cop being all "We're at WAR! We have to round 'em all up and shoot 'em!" And I was thinking "Hmm…maybe I should've stolen that police truck for Cassandra…she might want to have some guns about now…."
Is this the time of the game where your laziness comes back to haunt you?
If it is, well, sorry Cassandra. I mean, I DO have to start TR sometime….
Ha. The funny thing is, I hadn't burned Remy Duvall on the cross yet when I first got all worked up about this bit, so I genuinely was only referring to the slave auctions at the time, and TECHNICALLY Remy Duvall is not part of taking over the racket…so I was telling the truth.
In a coy and devilish manner.
But yeah, that was something. The logical end point, I suppose, of using the tools of the oppressor against him. Interesting how Duvall sort of curses at Lincoln, who says "have it your way" before we cut to the burning cross…suggesting that he was actually planning to just stab him, but if you're going to insist, fine, let's make a dramatic statement out of it.
Which is a bit odd, because no one's ever needed to convince him to make dramatic statements before. I mean, since we did the Pagani/Cuba/Tommy part before this, it could maybe be seen as Lincoln starting to think about maybe possibly just a little bit toning it down in the wake of the bit of reflection he seemed to do in that district, only Duvall egged him on with his determined racism (just when I think I'm out!)…but what if we'd done this first? That was certainly an option.
I suppose in that case it could read as "he was already kind of getting tired of the bloody drama, but Duvall egged him on to one final big gesture, and then in the Pagani part he really started to reflect"…I dunno.
As for your question about the cops, I don't actually know. Nothing more came of it in my game (so far, anyway) — I haven't had any radio news updates with "cops descend on the Hollow, are repelled by gunfire from a mysteriously heavily armed populace" or anything. That police declaration of war certainly seems like the kind of thing that would matter, but…I don't know if it does.
Some other things I thought were interesting about this bit:
When you take over the racket, there's no option to recruit the boss (and this was not about wiretapping, I had all the junction boxes). You just kill him. So this was an unforgivable crime, to Lincoln–he's not interested in working with this guy. (Fair! I wouldn't want to work with him either.)
And then when he calls someone to take over the racket, he says "just so you know, we're not going to be selling people. Find some other way to make money off it."
And as I said, I did this right after the riverboat, so it was an interesting contrast with me thinking "man, all these civilians and boat workers, he really doesn't care who gets in his way, he IS kind of a monster" (as we discussed), and then coming here and seeing that OK, there is a line he won't cross, he's not COMPLETELY a monster. There are things he's not willing to do.
Also, did you hear that conversation between the two guys as you're first sneaking up on the Southern Union meeting? About how the only thing worse than a [black person], is a rich white man in a robe? How they always talk a big game, but when it comes to someone getting their hands dirty, it's always going to be the little guys (the working class pamphlet distributors, as we talked about yesterday).
An interesting recognition of class divisions, which, since they're all there working on the same thing despite these complaints, hints at the way racism can be useful to a ruling class: hatred of one group (uniformly defined by skin color) keeps another group (uniformly defined by skin color) from turning on people with whom they'd otherwise have nothing in common, and whom they'd perhaps have considerable reason to resent.
"Even though I'm rich and you're poor and you work for me, it's not my fault! It's those OTHER people! It's all their fault!"
A classic line that never gets old.
Well, I think that part of it comes down to the other metaphor here, the person tied to a cross. Martyrdom.
I found it telling that the first thing you hear when you get to the place is Kevin complaining about rich white people. "Only thing worse than a black person is a white person putting on airs" or something. Pointing out that they talk big, but when it's actually time to go out and actually be all violently racist, they retreat to their country clubs.
Which one would think would apply to Duvall. The only time we saw him before he died he was in a suit, in a luxury place, hardly getting his hands dirty. He "fights" from behind a microphone. Shit, he even denied BEING in the Southern Union.
So really, for all his talk, we have every reason to side with Kevin here, that he's all talk and bluster and is happy to rile up the mob but not to join it.
And yet, here he is, prattling on about his ancestors and their sacrifice (see where I'm going?) and how "we all" must be part of the fight and all that. Even when everyone really knows that when he says "we all" he means "Kevin."
So I think Lincoln's "Have it your way" might be him saying "Hey, you want to be a martyr for your cause? He ya go, pal. You say suffering for the white race is important? Have it your way." Duvall talked a big game about being part of the struggle. He's not drawing Lincoln in. Lincoln is making sure that he doesn't go back to the country club. Lincoln's giving Duvall what he SAYS he's always wanted: to be a racial martyr, just like granddaddy.
On cops, Ok, but you still got that bit with the chief being all "THIS IS WAR!!!!" even though you did all Cassandra's stuff? Cuz then I'd feel a little better.
Yeah, I did notice that you couldn't recruit the guy. I can't tell if they're doing all that because they want to make sure we know that there are things that Lincoln won't do cuz hero or whatever, or if they knew that this game was going to be played by people who are not criminals, who would have the reaction I had ("Dude…I don't want to take over that racket…") and this was less a narrative decision as a "placate the player" decision. Even if, narratively, there's places a protagonist will go, games often realized that we, the players, might refuse to go there with him (or her). This might've just been that.
Ironically, here, when you have a heart, I called Burke and, in the cutscene when the cars drive up, his guys ran over and killed not one, but two pedestrians.
"Innocent people can't be harmed, so run over dudes on the way, ok, Burke?"
And yes, a classic line, but is it Duvall's way of thinking? The argument he had with Olivia before this was an interesting thing. He is sitting there all "THIS ISN'T ABOUT A CASINO!" which could be read as "There's more to life than money, there's zealous belief in stuff (something that could be said about Lincoln, too)" or it could be read as "Fool! You think a casino will keep you rich? Not when the whole order of everything is being challenged. Look at the big picture or we're doomed! (Which would be harder to say about Lincoln….Donovan, maybe.)"
Very good point about the martyr aspect, and how Lincoln is maybe just giving Duvall what he says he wants. Hey, now he's a fallen hero in the eyes of all those working class jerks who were sneering at him half an hour ago! It's the best possible outcome for him!
There'll be a statue of Remy Duvall in Downtown 20 years from now, mark my words. Because of heritage.
Well, maybe not if the Haitian mob is still running the place.
I did think about that–whether or not the game is just cutting the player some slack figuring WE don't want to go there. Because I'm so automatic on recruiting, I probably WOULD have recruited the guy, just out of habit, and then felt icky about it. Maybe the game is doing me a favor by not having that be a choice.
I also idly considered how maybe Lincoln could have kept the racket but started selling white people instead, if they wanted to reverse the whole thing. He's got this endless supply of Kevins, after all…just knock them out instead of killing them and that's a great labor pool! And we could argue it serves them right for trying to kill us! And hey, at least they'd be alive! But, you know, it would also be monstrous.
Plus, you'd probably have to work that through the prison system, since that's how we mostly manage forced labor these days (bribe some prison officials, get these dudes into the system, rent them out for chain gangs, easy as pie!), and the prison system is a whole other piece of the huge, crushingly unjust story of the black experience in the US, and one that's pretty much untouched in this game. Maybe they didn't want to get into it.
Also, it would be a lot harder to think of Lincoln as not a monster. It works more smoothly in a lot of ways, I think, if we just say that no, this is the line he won't cross. And I can buy that. It's a pretty good line to not cross, so it works.
Though watch: The irony will be that they aren't, that we just made everything worse by bringing the cops and the rich and the whites rage down on the Haitians, they'll all be dead and in jail, and there WILL be a statue of him downtown. Cuz that's the kind of shit that actually happens.
But you're done, so you know that, so don't spoil.
Right…the game is kind of doing us a favor. Plus, a big part of a game is being able to connect with your character in some way. We have to WANT to be the character. Players are able to forgive a lot in a character, but if things cross a certain line, we might not want to be that character anymore. Once that happens, poof, the game suffers. There has to be that link. So even if we choose not to recruit the boss or something, if we "know" that it's something that "crossed Lincoln's mind," that might turn us off Lincoln for good.
Yes, yes, yes, he, and, like, every game character ever, does bad things. But players, including us, have things we overlook and things we don't.
It is telling that Sam Cooke's "Chain Gang" came on during this particular racket, and I don't recall hearing it before.
Prison would have been tough. There's only so much one game can get into. And this game got into a lot.
I do wonder what they ARE doing there. It just says "A safehouse to lie low and keep an eye on the rich." But what's the earn?
Groceries. They went straight.
I did think that was kind of awesome. "Yup, this is a grocery store. We, uh…we sell groceries."
And keep an eye on the rich. In case the revolution comes and we rise up against them, or they want to buy some groceries in the meantime.
Good point about "Chain Gang" coming on here! I heard that as well, but forgot about it. I did notice them doing a few interesting things with the music around this part of the game.
You'll hear it. You always hear more than I do.
Also, I have not finished, as I did not play last night. Kid lunches, kid laundry, Halloween prep, etc. So I don't know how it ends, and whether or not there's a statue of Remy Duvall in Downtown (though you're right, that's totally the kind of thing that would actually happen).
Even the rich occasionally need to pop in for a snack cake.
I have to say, even though it was in one of my rackets, I didn't take the cash that was sitting there on the register. Didn't feel right. The nice cashier lady was right there.
They do seem to have certain songs queued up for certain things. I heard White Rabbit a lot more when I was doing the drug bits.
Wait….there's a chance we'd finish a game….at the SAME TIME? Even CLOSE to the same time?
I don't know how to cope with that.
That statue of Remy would actually happen, and kind of has. When a family member got married, I had some free time to wander around Charleston, South Carolina. Lovely city. Lots of nice shops, great restaurants, you'd like it. And, by southern standards anyway, rather liberal (like, not New England liberal, but certainly more hipster chic than other parts of the South).
And near the center of downtown they have a rather lovely holocaust memorial. Small, but rather moving. It's a block away from the famous black church (that recently got shot up by that white nationalist). It's all in and near a lovely park. Serene. Respectful. Full of the history of triumph over suffering, of resistance, of progress.
And all of it under the shadow of a three story tall column and statue of John C. Calhoun.
There you have it, indeed.
I often didn't take the cash from my rackets either! I felt bad about possibly making it harder for people to do their jobs. It was like, "well, this is technically mine anyway, but hey, I want you to be able to make change if a customer comes in."
I often didn't rob the cash register at small stores in general, actually. Lincoln Clay isn't out to hurt the little guy! Not specifically, that is. Not unless the little guy's in a racket he's trying to take down.
OK, there are a lot of qualifications on that statement, but basically, Lincoln Clay's beef is with the Man, not with the local shopkeeper.
Keep your money, my good man! The med pack in your restroom, on the other hand, that's mine.
I, too, have not stolen from local businesses. Even the racist segregated ones!
I have pillaged their nudie mags, but they can keep their money. And their Hot Rods. And their album covers.
Shopkeeper coming into work in the morning:
"Oh no, the lock is broken! I've been robbed! …Well, it looks like the cash is all here…that's not so ba—OH MY GOD the Playboy is gone!!!!! Why, WHY couldn't he have just taken the money! That was my retirement magazine! There was only $12 in the register and he had to take the ONE THING I cherished!"
Oh well, you tried.
You may be right. These dudes MUST cherish them. I mean, shit, some of them are five years old.
"Five years, and the only thing of value I have is taken from me…."
I'm a monster.
"That centerfold was the only reason I managed to drag myself out of bed every morning…might as well just go overdose on adrenaline now—WHAT???? The med pack is empty too????!!!"
[Goes outside and steps into traffic: is instantly run over by reckless driver who may or may not be Lincoln Clay or one of his many associates.]
Nah. Decides to cheer up by getting a snack cake at the local grocery store. Is run over by Irishmen.
Seriously. Cut to green cars, first one just takes OUT a woman. Then the next car runs her over AND her friend.
Dudes.
Yet another reason to stay inside with your five year old Playboy. Much safer than snack cakes.
Much, much safer. It's what I would do every single day, if I didn't have to go out to find Pokemon.