text:
limit my search to r/Fantasy
this post was submitted on 19 Apr 2019
1,030 points (95% upvoted)
Submit Text
joinleave757,570 readers
672 users here now
Please be aware that the sidebar in 'old' Reddit is no longer being updated as of October 2018. Resource links will direct you to Wiki pages, which we are maintaining. For updated information regarding ongoing community features such as Book Bingo, Book Clubs, and AMAs, please visit the sidebar in 'new' Reddit.
We reserve the right to remove discussion that does not fulfill the mission of /r/Fantasy.
Build a reputation for inclusive, welcoming dialogue where creators and fans of all types of speculative fiction mingle.
Respect for members and creators shall extend to every interaction.
Interact with the community in good faith.
Interactions should not primarily be for personal benefit. Personal benefit includes, but is not limited to: financial gain from sales or referral links, traffic to your own website/blog/channel, karma farming, critiques or feedback of your work from the community, etc. This also applies to you posting on behalf of your friend/family member/neighbor.
Hate speech, dog whistles, devil's advocate, arguing in bad faith, sealioning, and general pot stirring are not permitted. Any of the above couched in "polite" or joking language will not be tolerated. No person should ever feel threatened, harassed, or unwelcome. Critique the work, not the person. Acting in bad faith in this community can and likely will have consequences.
Hide All Spoilers
Hide all spoilers, regardless of the age of the media.
If an entire post will be spoiler discussion, indicate so in the title, eg. "Spoiler Discussion for The Empire Strikes Back" and toggle spoiler mode on. If a comment in a thread without spoilers will disclose a spoiler, tag it appropriately.
Spoiler tags that work for both versions of Reddit and on mobile look like this: >!text goes here!< will look like text goes here
No Pirated Content
Do not post links to, reference how to access, or request creative work that has not been authorized by the rights holder, including but not limited to YouTube videos of audiobooks/movies, PDFs of books, blogs whose content is books, etc.
Any external link to original content must either be on the creator's own site or properly attributed.
Fair use of copyrighted material is allowed.
Self-promotional posts must only be 10% of your activity on r/fantasy
Self-promotional content outside of this 10% can be posted in our bi-weekly self-promotion thread.
Authors can sign up for our Writer of the Day series here.
Do not ask for critiques/help with your writing, plot, maps, etc. Try r/fantasywriters or r/worldbuilding instead
Self-Promo Announcements
You can post once to announce a sale. Link directly to the sale
One post per kickstarter is allowed
Referral Links
Only authors may use referral links (for their own books).
Surveys must be approved via modmail before being posted to the sub. See survey policy.
No Low-Effort Posts/Memes
No memes!
Do not post photos of books, book hauls or places that make you think of a particular book.
Book pics that are interesting or unusual are permitted at moderator discretion. Author signatures or pets do not qualify.
Book cover reveals are allowed. If you are the author of the book, or friends with the author of the book, then our self-promotion rules apply.
Shelfies, hauls, etc may be posted in the monthly "Show and Tell" post which occurs on the 7th of each month.
Low effort text posts will be redirected to the daily Simple Questions & Recommendations thread. More info here.
Art Policy
"Art" includes but is not limited to paintings, music, cosplay and woodworking.
All art posts must credit the artist. Usernames are ok.
All art posts are subject to a 10:1 ratio - 10 interactions on the sub before every 1 art post.
If you are the artist any reference to purchase or commissions of your art belongs in the bi-weekly self-promotion thread.
Spoiler warnings and NSFW tags must be applied to art if necessary.
Blogs/Reviews Policy
You can not directly link to your own blog.
You can copy and paste the review/article in full and include a link to your blog if you wish.
Direct links to trade publication reviews are ok. (eg. Publisher's Weekly, Tor.com, Barnes and Noble, etc).
Video reviews belong in the Review Tuesday thread.
Anyone is welcome to host a giveaway.
However, all giveaways must be hosted on the r/fantasy sub itself and not via a 3rd party site (including mailing lists, FB, Twitter, etc.).
If you're the author, self-promotion rules apply.
AMAs, Awards, and Challenges
Past Fantasy AMAs
Stabby Award Winners
Author Appreciation
/r/Fantasy Exclusives
Schedule for Recurring Posts
Book Bingo Reading Challenge
2019 Book Bingo
Book Bingo Card
Bingo Card Template (including hard mode)
Bingo Tracking (Google Sheet)
Big Thread of Recommendations
Book Bingo Index
Connect with Members
Goodreads Group
r/Fantasy Census
Find people with similar tastes
Recommendations Guide
Read the /r/Fantasy "Top" Lists
/r/fantasy "Themed" lists
Intro to Fantasy Flowchart
Female Authors in Fantasy Flowchart
Upcoming Book Releases
The r/Fantasy community review index
r/Fantasy Book Database: All lists in one spreadsheet!
Community Book Clubs
Goodreads Book of the Month
RRAWR Book Club
Classics Book Club
YARGH Book Club
FIF Book Club
Read/Re-Read Index
Lord of the Rings Read-along
Kushiel's Legacy Roundup Post
Lighthouse Duet Roundup Post
Inda Series Roundup Post
Fantasy Websites
Speculative Fiction Websites
Fantasy-Related Subreddits
For Fantasy Writers
Signup: The Fantasy Writer of the Day
Visit /r/fantasywriters for help with your novel
Visit /r/selfpublish for help with self publishing
Visit r/writers for additional help with the writing process
Switch to Day Mode
a community for 11 years
elquesograndeWorldbuilders
kjhatch
strideraWorldbuilders
wishforagiraffeReading Champion 2016 & 2018, Worldbuilders
MikeOfThePalaceReading Champion 2015-18, Worldbuilders
AutoModeratorInternet Golem
LittlePlasticCastleReading Champion 2015-16, Worldbuilders
lyrraelStabby Winner, Reading Champion 2015-18, Worldbuilders
Megan_DawnReading Champion 2016, Worldbuilders
...and 10 more »
discussions in r/Fantasy
295 · 68 comments
Easy to read books don't get enough credit
1170 · 20 comments
'Deatheater', by SE Hetrick
Prosper's Demon by K. J. Parker is Thoughtful, Well-Paced and an Excellent Example of the Unreliable Narrator
53 · 92 comments
If an author came to you and said they would write a story (either a prequel, sequel, or side story) based off of your favorite book/series just for you, what would it be? With the stipulation that it can't contradict established canon.
Male Protagonist Switches sides with Romance
Martha Wells: The Serpent Sea, the 2nd in the Books of the Raksura, is already showing up in some Barnes & Noble stores in its re-release mass market paperback. The official release date is 1/21. It's already available in ebook and audiobook, narrated by @ckipiniak
Just finished reading The Fifth Season... am I missing something?
What is your FAVOURITE book, and has it changed in the last five years?
Kingdom of Copper by SA Chakraborty kindle sale for $1.99.
30 · 1 comment
A Litted Hatred on sale for Kindle for $3.99
So You Want to Read the Malazan Book of the Fallen. (self.Fantasy)
submitted 9 months ago * by iamthedonquixoteStabby Winner 2
So, you want to read the Malazan Book Of the Fallen. Maybe you're intrigued by the "obligatory Malazan comment" on every post. Maybe you've started the series in the past and couldn't get into it, yet still hope to start it again someday. Maybe you've already read it. Maybe you've never heard of it. Regardless of who you are, this post is for you.
The Malazan Book of the Fallen (referred to as MBotF for the rest of this post) is a 10-book long, high fantasy series written by Steven Erikson from 1999 to 2011. The idea of Malazan first came from the background world of the role-playing games Erikson and his friend, Ian C. Esslemont, used to play. Over time, both Erikson and Esslemont developed this idea into a world with thousands of characters across six different continents. Erikson alone wrote over 3.3 Million words in just the main book series.
MBotF and its subsequent novels are as epic as high-fantasy can get. The series spans separate but interweaving storylines on three continents. It's difficult to describe the complexity of the plot without giving too much away, but let it be known that there is something for everyone. Politics. War. Romance. No stone goes unturned.
The first book, Gardens of the Moon, is set in the city of Darujhistan, as the Malazan army attempts to conquer the city. The story takes places both from the perspective of characters in the Malazan ranks, as well as characters hunkered down in the besieged city. I'm not going to lie that the book is complex, but it is not a book that is unintelligible to a dedicated reader.
After Gardens, there's still nine more books to go. These are, in order:
Deadhouse Gates
Memories of Ice (my personal favorite)
House of Chains
Midnight Tides
The Bonehunters
Reaper's Gale
Toll the Hounds
Dust of Dreams
The Crippled God
As said, this series takes place with three largely distinct storylines on three separate continents. And so, each book takes focuses on a different area. Books 1,3 and 8 focus on the continent of Genabackis. Books 2, 4, and 6 are on the Seven Cities continent. Books 5 and 7 are on the continent of Lether. The rest are a combination of the three.
Other than the main series, there is an assortment of novels and short stories set in the same world. None of these are necessary for enjoyment of the main series, but they are still well worth the read. All listed in order of publication:
Bauchelain & Korbal Broach Novels:
Blood Follows
The Healthy Dead
The Lees of Laughter's End
Crack'd Pot Trail
The Wurms of Blearmouth
The Fiends of Nightmaria
The Kharkanas Trilogy:
Forge of Darkness
Fall of Light
Walk in Shadow (to be released)
The Witness Trilogy:
The God is Not Willing
Not only did Steven Erikson publish in the Malazan universe, so did Ian C. Esslemont. Esslemont jumped into the writing world when he published the first book in his own Malazan Empire series. Later, after that was finished, he continued writing in the world with his Path to Ascendancy Trilogy. Below are Esslemont's publications:
Malazan Empire:
Night of Knives
Return of the Crimson Guard
Stonewielder
Orb Sceptre Throne
Blood and Bone
Path to Ascendancy:
Dancer's Lement
Deadhouse Landing
Kellanved's Reach
Given the extensive nature of the series, with 28 books currently in publication, it is difficult to know what the correct reading order is.
First, it is most wise to beginning at the beginning, with Gardens of the Moon. This is for two reasons. First, because it is one of the least complex points of entry, therefore some of the easiest material to get accustomed to. Second, Gardens is the perfect place to start because it truly is the beginning. Not in terms of chronology, but in terms of where the book stands in relation to the rest of the series. All future novels from Erikson builds on the lessons that he learned about writing, character, structure, from this book. That is to say, his books only get better from there on out.
In terms of what happens after the beginning? There are many ways to tread. Some interweave the Malazan Empire books into the MBotF series, whereas others wait until the end of one to start the other. I'll link a much more exoplanetary post here.
But what about the content? Will I like it?
You'll like this series if:
· You like expansive, epic fantasy
· You appreciate complex female, LGBT+, and non-white characters
· You reading about military campaigns
· You like 3-dimensional characters
· You want your books to have moments of painful tragedy mixed with moments of pure joy
You won't like this series if:
· You want your fantasy to stay on a small-scale
· You like short series
· You like single-POV stories
· You prefer low levels of fantastical elements in your stories, like limited levels of magic
Lastly, I want to touch on the idea of complexity. I've briefly mentioned it throughout the post, but I think it is important to discuss.
The books are complex. At times, they are hard to read, and can make the reader feel as if they are missing a key element. Reading the first book feels like being strung along through scenes without having the ability to grasp the bigger picture.
Soon, the complexity is diminished; you start to understand the words once non-sensical to you. You start to love the difficult, underlying themes that permeate through the books. By the end, all the struggle is worth it.
For me, I didn't truly understand MBotF until the end of the third book. I forced myself through three books I perceived as mediocre, albeit with potential. At the end of the third book and the beginning of the fourth book, I broke a wall. I loved it, and couldn't put it down. I don't know what the wall will be broken if you ever decided to try Malazan. Maybe the first book, maybe the third, maybe never. But if you want to try to dive into Malazan, for the love of god, try. You may just find your favorite series.
top 200 commentsshow 500
[–]GrantMeThePower 199 points200 points201 points 9 months ago (152 children)
Here are my questions: Is the story actually any good? Do you care about the characters and what happens? Is it fun? Is the ending fulfilling and worth the time commitment?
None of the "complexities" turn me off-but there is so much back and forth on this series that I get dissuaded because the worst thing I can think of is spending that time on that many words and going "meh" at the end
[–]GlobusBlaa 163 points164 points165 points 9 months ago (47 children)
Let me put it like this. They're all great books but Book 3: Memories of Ice remains the single best fantasy book I've read when it comes to armies and mages and gods smashing together. It's an amazing book.
[–]Eden108 43 points44 points45 points 9 months ago (13 children)
I guess I gotta give it another chance, the beginning of 3 lost me and I wandered off. I just remember feeling like plot devices were being plopped down in front of me at high speed, kept taking me out of it.
[–]Ominus666 30 points31 points32 points 9 months ago * (9 children)
MoI is unbelievably tight as far as its plot is concerned. One of the main themes of the series is convergence, and I think you really start seeing it occur in this novel.
[–]rusmo 11 points12 points13 points 9 months ago (2 children)
And by convergence, in MBotF, we mean, "Power draws or attracts other power."
[–]Ominus666 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Yes! Thank you for clarifying that point.
load more comments (1 reply)
[–]ANAL_LAZER 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (4 children)
Book 3 and Book 5 are to me some of the tightest books I've ever read, plot wise.
[–]TheSuspiciousDreamerReading Champion 2016 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (2 children)
Heh, so you haven't read many books then?
Both of those books are a 1,000 pages long and digress all over the place.
load more comments (2 replies)
[–]spruce_sprucerton 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children)
How the Erikson handles convergence as an explicit in-world phenomenon which drives the story as the tension rises to the ultimate climax is really quite wonderful. For me, it's one of the neatest take-aways from a truly great series.
[–]ATexanHobbit 27 points28 points29 points 9 months ago (3 children)
Itkovian's "I am not yet done" and his work with the T'lan Imass gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. That was a truly epic book
[–]i_do_stuff 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (1 child)
I'm not gonna lie, between that and Whiskeyjack and the Bridgeburners deaths, plus the funerals I bawled my eyes out through the last 10% of that book. The last stand of The Grey Swords in Capustan was the major source of goosebumps for me.
[–]Solomons_GateDG 14 points15 points16 points 9 months ago (12 children)
Honestly, I think Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice hit me the hardest of any books I've read, aside from maybe AMoL.
Maybe that's because I wasnt expecting such moving stories after the first one, or maybe I was totally unprepared for the tone, but whoof, man.
[–]GlobusBlaa 9 points10 points11 points 9 months ago (11 children)
The first five Malazan books are the strongest succession of books I've read from an author, perfectly interwoven, they build on one another in a crazy tapestry of storylines.
[–]RedJorgAncrath 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (3 children)
First five? Bonehunters was my favorite book of the whole series!
[–]GlobusBlaa 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children)
Bonehunters was where I think it started going down hill for Erikson in terms of plot and spectacle. There's not the same clever links and he does too much subversion of expectations for my taste. He also started to put more politics and philosophy into the storylines.
[–]duckyduckster 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Wow wow wow. I love how decisive this series is. For me the last 5 books have that interwoven feel and they bring everything together, whereas the first 5 are more separate stories. The ramping up of the politics and philosophy is sort of natural as the stakes get higher and higher and as the events carry more weight, the text also does. Beautiful series.
[–]InSetsofThree 24 points25 points26 points 9 months ago (11 children)
Another question about Memories of Ice: does the dialogue ever become any less stilted, forced, and awkward? That was a big part of the reason why I stopped halfway through, even though I loved Gardens of the Moon and Memories of Ice. The dialogue was just so poorly written that it prevented me from caring about any of the characters or the situation they were in.
[–]Akhevan 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Another question about Memories of Ice: does the dialogue ever become any less stilted, forced, and awkward?
There are times where it gets better for a while but I guess that Erikson's writing style just does not cover that angle.
[–]GlobusBlaa 39 points40 points41 points 9 months ago (2 children)
Never noticed that. Erikson is often accused of writing characters that are far more verbose and academic than makes sense given the characters story or station, like his poetic soldiers, but I've always found the dialogue great. There's a wit and humor mixed with cynicism that I enjoy in his exchanges. Especially when Tehol Beddict and Bugg are introduced in Midnight Tides.
[–]OmerosP 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (2 children)
Some aspects improve and some remain stilted. I definitely hear what you are getting at and agree; it's my biggest complaint with the series as well. Overall, I'd say that the series does a good job of establishing a few different voices but the problem is that the number of distinct characters is much larger than the number of distinct voices. So you end up with people that sound like clones at times, or who use one voice in one scene and a wholly different one in another.
I haven't made it through all ten major books — I first read the series while they were still being written and only went back to it earlier this year — but if I had to judge it right now I'd say the Seven Cities content has the most unique voices while some of the dialogue on Genebackis was the most stilted and awkward.
[–]LOLtohru 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (2 children)
Though the dialogue didn't bother me personally if you read that many books and didn't like it then I think it's just not to your taste. Some characters have different sorts of dialogue but as a whole it won't change.
[–]Akhevan 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (1 child)
Some characters have different sorts of dialogue but as a whole it won't change.
The issue is that the dialogue style is not distinct enough between characters that have nothing in common in regards to their personality, culture, or level of education.
[–]Mr_OhHereHeGoes 2 points3 points4 points 8 months ago (0 children)
I have to disagree though. The contrast between how Malazan talk as oppose to the people they're yet to conquer is something I enjoy. Down to the little idioms and prayers that are unique to different cultures. I can't imagine who you might be talking about.
[–]Capers0Worldbuilders 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Memories of ice is very good. The second half is phenomenal and depressing
[–]andrude01 56 points57 points58 points 9 months ago (12 children)
To give an alternate perspective, I never found that I connected with the characters. Some of them were cool and interesting, but I never felt particularly sad when any of them died. I was reading primarily for the plot and how everything was woven together.
[–]kenncann 12 points13 points14 points 9 months ago (7 children)
Totally agree, I just finished the third book the other day and I'm just not attached to anyone. Characters dying off is worse than ASoIaF and there's far less investment in them. The last chapter was the only thing that redeemed the 3rd book for me because characters actually started to come together and it was only then that some emotion was expressed. The rest of the book was a slog to get through.
I'll probably continue with the series for another book or two but honestly it's baffling to me that the third book is considered the best in the series since to me it felt significantly worse than the second. Then again I think the second actually allowed you to become invested in the characters like Duiker and I think that's what put it higher for me.
[–]flyingarg 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children)
The ending with coltain was so well written. The whole journey just pulls you like a wave to just crash you onto rocky shores.
The series has many epic moments. Gut wrenching, heroic, joyous. There is both major and minor character building.
My personal gripe is, some of my favourite characters, get fewer roles after i start liking them.
[–]Mr_Mumbercycle 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (4 children)
It's not exactly a universal opinion that the third book is the best. Many people believe (as do I) that the second book is actually the best. Coltain and the Chain of Dogs is just heartbreaking and beautiful.
The Malazan sub did a really interesting survey about a year ago with demographic info, and it seemed that people's age played a significant factor in what they considered their favorite books in the series, as well as opinions of various characters and the "expanded universe" books.
[–]kenncann 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (2 children)
I think this poll is the one I was referring to where MoI was ranked highest with the smallest variance in opinion, but maybe there is a more recent one that said otherwise.
Agreed though, second book is very good and could easily see myself rereading it.
[–]Mr_Mumbercycle 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child)
Yeah! That's the one! I thought that even though most rated MoI as their favorite, there was still a significant set of people who ranked DHG as their favorite. I could be misremembering (I am one of the old folks, after all :) )
[–]kenncann 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Actually there was a more recent one where they do break it down by age and it does appear DHG appears in the top 3 consistently for all ages.
[–]Destriant_of_Perish 17 points18 points19 points 9 months ago (0 children)
There are a number of stories that make up the whole. Some prefer one storyline over others, some like it all, some dislike a storyline or two. The cast and setting... it's so huge you can't expect to enjoy everything 100%. At the same time this mad enormity allows the author to weave together so, so much - it is far more experimental in many ways than most other fantasy. The ending...will likewise be a personal matter. I enjoyed it, it made me take a deep breath and the rest of that day I was kind of melancholy hehe. Others think Erikson didn't wrap it up tightly enough (sequels are coming).
[–]RadagastTheWhite 9 points10 points11 points 9 months ago (3 children)
The most difficult part of reading Malazan is that it lacks a consistent set of main characters. If you were to ask me who the main characters are, I honestly couldn't give you an answer. One book will be about one group of characters and the next will jump to a completely different set of characters from a different culture living on a different continent. Critical main characters will often disappear from the narrative for 5+ books. New characters are constantly being introduced, some of these you'll love, but others you'll hate or be indifferent towards. In the last few books there were characters and storylines that I just didn't care about because I didn't have much invested in them. That being said, there are a lot of great characters and great story lines in Malazan.
[–]SobcatVIII 10 points11 points12 points 9 months ago (0 children)
The main character is really the world SE and ICE created (and maybe Fiddler).
I think that's one big reason why it's polarizing, because people read fantasy for different reasons. If what you love is world-building, MBotF gives you constant new discoveries. If that's not your thing, it's bound to feel a bit incoherent.
[–]Brutus_Khan 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Which I'd been perfectly okay with but so many of them are just absolutely unnecessary and complete wastes of time.
[–]finniganian 48 points49 points50 points 9 months ago (7 children)
Because the fans of this series are very passionate, I'll offer a dissenting opinion.
Basically all of the series' flaws can be boiled down to a lack of consistency. Some characters work amazingly, but the the series also has some of the worst character writing I can call to mind. The plot can be very interesting, but only for the first twenty percent and last thirty percent of each book.
He would really benefit from co authoring with an agressive editor. The strengths of his books (which I'm not listing because everyone else has done that already) do not lie in the wordcount.
[–]HalcyonDaysAreGone 30 points31 points32 points 9 months ago (3 children)
I mean you're not wrong, but at the same time there's no shortage of dissenting opinions around here when it comes to Malazan. It's dislikers are equally as passionate about expressing that most of the time!
[–]finniganian 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (2 children)
I hadn't really gone through the thread that much at that point, and I'd seen a bunch of people who were saying the same thing. Also, I'm in a bad mood. Sorry about that, but I do stand by what I said
[–]Chr0no5x 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I think some of this may be due to the writer having more than a publisher can really wrap their mind and wallet around.
As much as I love this series, I can't disagree with you.
I do think 9 and 10 could have been 9 to 12, and worked better. I still have a couple questions.
Lether also could have been introduced a bit earlier, or alluded to in a more direct way.
[–]1ce9ine 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
The plot can be very interesting, but only for the first twenty percent and last thirty percent of each book
This is pretty much my feeling. That said, I read the whole series bc that 50% is so great. I kind of wish I could have gotten a TL;DR for the middle of each Malazan book.
[–]valgranaire 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
As a fan I agree to certain extent. The timeline is especially a bit wonky it can do better with tighter editing.
[–]lauchs 32 points33 points34 points 9 months ago (14 children)
Can't speak to the ending as I'm about to start book 8. But, at this point, I've loved some of these characters more than I've loved any fictional people before.
It'll take awhile, like any good friendship, but goddamn knowing them is worth it. As long as you don't mind having your heart broken occasionally.
I'm already excited about my first reread just to know and care about the characters from the first time they appear.
[–]20santima 22 points23 points24 points 9 months ago (1 child)
Sad to say, I've loved some of these fictional characters more than I've loved most real people before.
[–]DianthaaReading Champion 2018 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (10 children)
How broken are we talking here? With the heart?
[–]Fusian 48 points49 points50 points 9 months ago (7 children)
Absolutely shattered. I would say books 3, 7 and 10 in particular have the real gut punches of the series, but there's plenty along the way. It's not called Malazan Book of the Survivors.
[–]1ce9ine 13 points14 points15 points 9 months ago (0 children)
It's not called Malazan Book of the Survivors
This could actually serve as a pretty accurate summation of the series LOL
[–]Gekerd 11 points12 points13 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I wasn't supposed to lose another
[–]valgranaire 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (4 children)
3 was excellent, but 7, 8, and 10 left me sobbing at some parts.
[–]Chr0no5x 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (2 children)
I literally read the desert parts of of 8 in the tub, because their trek was way way way too dry.
[–]andii74 13 points14 points15 points 9 months ago (0 children)
SE puts your heart in a wood chipper. Some instances are downright depressing.
[–]dh625y 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Errm, I don't think my heart has really recovered yet, and it's been a few years!
More seriously, the quality of the writing of characters, both minor and major, is exceptional. And it all flows from that.
[–]ATexanHobbit 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I'm not going to lie, there's been a few places in the book where I'm left thinking "was that really worth the 800 words it took to write it?" And then I'll be hit with something epically sad or happy or heroic and it becomes apparent that it was very much worth it. I'm only on book 6 but so far I've really come to love a lot of the characters. I think I've actually cried more at the character deaths here than I have in any book in a few years at least. And the camaraderie between characters is great, when their paths cross with other characters from a different arc you just get super excited to see what happens to the new allegiances. The only thing I ever really "warn" people about is the absurd amounts of violence (both physical, mental, and sexual). there's one part where some citizens end up strangling some men with their own entrails while raping the wives and children and while you don't directly see that happen, it was enough to make me nauseated tbh.
TLDR: so far it's definitely worth it.
[–]Jaondtet 13 points14 points15 points 9 months ago (0 children)
It's weird for me. I've been at this series for close to a year, and I'm at book 5. I believe I'll finish it, but usually I would read a series way quicker than this. On one hand, I love it every time that I read it. On the other hand, there's a certain amount of resistance to sitting down for a session every time.
The way it's written forces you to pay a lot of attention, and so it's draining to read it. This might be much worse for me because I'm not a native english speaker, but I never had any such problems reading other works so I doubt that's the only reason.
I can confidently say, the story is amazing. Even though it's hard to read for long periods of time, I still think the story itself is amazing. You can predict a lot of plotpoints if you pay specíal attention, and not in a bad way. None of them are obvious, it's just when you think about the Malazan world for a while, a lot of things make some twisted sense. Other plotpoints still come as a surprise of course, or introduce new elements that you couldn't have predicted.
As for caring about characters, I care about some. But my honest impression is that there are simply too many characters to really care about many of them. Especially around the second and third book, there are some characters that really captured my emotional interest. But I don't think you nessessarily need to emotionally care about all the characters. Like I said, the story is fantastic, even if you don't care about most characters.
As for the ending, I obviously can't comment on the actual ending as I haven't read it. But I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment when thinking like this. No ending can live up to 10 books of buildup. At my current rate, I will have been reading for 2 years at the end of it. There's no way that one moment can accurately sum up my feelings about the series.
[–]AsdrubalStrombole 15 points16 points17 points 9 months ago (0 children)
No, not in my opinion. Read the first 6 books and stopped. But mileage varies.
[–]Anomander3108Reading Champion 2018 21 points22 points23 points 9 months ago (3 children)
I personally thought that the series was average on the whole.. I'm only replying because I went 'meh' at the end of the series, which you wanted to know if it happens.
The series has its high moments and these moments are some of the best (if not the best) scenes I've ever read in fantasy. Particularly, the last 200 pages of every book (even the most boring of the ten) is amazing, so much so that if the book consisted only of those parts, no one would dispute it being the best book ever possible to be written (yes yes, the climax is so powerful due to the rest of the book, but you get what I mean).
That said, the rest of the book is pretty average with a loose plot, two dimensional characters, meandering story telling and just boring plotlines (the Mhybe anyone?). The series would have been a lot better if it was edited to make it tighter and more focused. Even at its most boring, though, the series never becomes 'bad', just average.
In conclusion, is it worth reading the series just for the amazing climaxes in each book? Definitely! That's the only thing that kept me going through the series. I have my favorites in the series, with books 8, 3 and 2 being the best I've read in comparison to other fantasy books (in that order, yes) but the others in the series rank somewhere in the middle. I still continued reading because the average material is worth reading to get to the gems that are the conclusions to every MBotF book.
Just keep in mind that you might not particularly feel moved or get a revelation or have withdrawal symptoms after the series ends and you'll have fun reading the series (hopefully). I did, just not as much as was hyped.
But then, you might fall in love with this series, who knows. These are just my thoughts and opinions.
[–]drmamm 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Just to help me frame your review, what are your fantasy favorites? How does this series compare to Wheel of Time/Lord of the Rings/His Dark Materials/ASOIAF/etc.?
[–]Hurinfan 19 points20 points21 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Yes to all of your questions, especially the characters one.
[–]sleepinxonxbed 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children)
The Malazan series is more like a collection of stories that come together towards a huge convergence in the final books.
It's like condensing a setting like Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, or Warhammer into a single series. There are some characters that are focused through multiple books, but each novel has their own individual plot threads with their own characters.
There are some plot threads that are boring, like any other series, but there are so many that have not been imitated by any other fantasy series. Empire outlaws, sieges from the conqueror's perspective, Middle-eastern rebellions, marching across a continent with populations of refugees, traveling between parallel magical realms, etc.
I finished making a guide for Memories of Ice and I was exhausted by the end of it because of how intense and emotional it was. The single novel could've been a trilogy of its own, and it would've been a fantastic end to the series if it just stopped there. But it was only book 3 of 10!
There are lots of characters, some you won't care about because they appear very briefly, but there are a lot that you'll definitely care about. Memories of Ice will definitely pull your heartstrings. There's even some characters you'll hate at first but surprisingly end up sympathizing with.
Even though it's really long, to care about the Malazan series you really do need to take it slow. Most other fantasy series you can get by fine just by skimming and reading as fast as you want because they're relatively simple with lots of flavor worldbuilding, but it's easy to miss small subtle details can inform your perspective on how things are.
[–]figpetus 15 points16 points17 points 9 months ago (16 children)
Do you care about the characters and what happens?
In my experience you do - until you get a couple books in and realize that almost everything gets solved via Deus Ex Machina. Since there's no limit to the magic in this universe everything just gets magicked away.
Can't get interested in things when you realize some crazy magic will come out of nowhere and solve the problem.
[–]TisteSimeon 9 points10 points11 points 9 months ago (13 children)
That's... Not really true at all... How much of it have you read?
load more comments (13 replies)
[–]kjmichaelsStabby Winner, Reading Champion 2015-18 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Let me try to answer these questions in order as someone who's halfway through the series and considers himself a fan.
Is the story any good? It's hard to say. Each of the individual books have been good, some even great, in terms of their own self contained stories but they have yet to form a true coherent overarching plot between all of the books yet.
Do you care about the characters? Absolutely, Erikson is actually really good at creating unique characters in a short time that catch your interest. I even found myself pretty affected by the deaths of a handful of a background characters that barely had any "screen time" in book 3 and I'm normally an emotionally inert lump of clay. There are a few weak characters as with any series but I think the good characters truly shine.
Is it fun? I'm going to say no. There are scenes that are fun and funny but on a whole the series leans towards serious philosophizing and with many early books being nearly stand alone stories, the start up cost of each book can be a bit grueling until the plot hooks you. The first 300 pages of each book tend to feel like a chore but the final 300 tend to be extremely gratifying which what fans tend to call the "Erikson convergence" when all the threads successfully tie together.
Is the ending fulfilling and worth the time commitment? Sadly, this is the only one I can't answer since I haven't finished. I will say that given the semi independent nature of the books I've read so far and how fulfilling some of the individual arcs have been, I think even a truly bad ending in the final book won't make me feel cheated but your mileage may vary.
So, there you go. I hope my answers can help you figure out if the series is for you.
[–]Lagerbottoms 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I'm currently on page 135 of Gardens of the Moon, and I already love the world, the characters, the prose, the way magic is ever present, and most of all the mystery. New concepts are introduced to you, as if it was self evident for you to understand them. And with time you do. And I already love that process.
It's not complexity only for it's own sake. In my case, it really adds to the joy of reading
[–]RealisticCount 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Yes. Especially the characters - Different character faiths made me tear up several times during the series.
More so on my second read through (almost done, started Crippled God).
[–]ANAL_LAZER 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
The story is great. At times heartbreakingly tragic and at other times laugh out loud funny. Some of the plots come together so well that one cannot help but exclaim.
The characters are some of the best I've ever read. The characterization isn't built on exposition or description, but on dialogue, action, and internal monologues.
[–]pornokitsch 104 points105 points106 points 9 months ago (2 children)
So, I bounced off the series hard, and will never revisit. My loss, etc etc.
That said, this post is terrific. Useful, practical, positive, and a good reference - and I've saved it to link to it when others ask about the series. Malazan wasn't for me, but doesn't stop me from appreciating your fine work here.
I am sure this will help other people find and appreciate the series - well done!
[–]FuckYeahGeology 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I'm in the same boat as you. I hated it when I was reading it and didn't bother continuing on, but this is a great post!
[–]Jos_VStabby Winner, Reading Champion 2018 37 points38 points39 points 9 months ago (6 children)
I am firmly in the Publication order of reading. Including the Ian C esslemont books - mainly due to the nature of terminology. Where once a writer introduces a word it suddenly becomes used a lot more in all following books.
The reveals of events have a certain dramatic impact and purpose - that you do not get if you read the books in chronological order.
All that said: I love these books, the characters are great. the convergences are fun, but these books are not without its flaws and there's a lot of things going around that can make people give up on this series and those are all reasonable.
[–]Tortuga917 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (4 children)
Any recommended stopping points? I read Gardens of the moon and halfway through the 2nd book (stopped due to getting library books.) Already feel like I need to reread the first one again. So, if you have any recs for stopping places so I dont need to read all in a row, that would be awesome.
[–]Dumey 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children)
As mentioned in the OP, the story kind of jumps around from continent to continent. Books 1 and 3 go together. Books 2 and 4 go together. But you should still read them in order for the correct character development and to avoid certain spoilers. But book 5 then goes to a completely separate continent and set of characters, so that would be the best "stopping" point. Book 5 also works pretty well as a standalone novel, so you could take a break after that as well.
[–]AlexSoul 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I'm only on book 6 (with some side books down) and I think I really got a handle on how (I think) everything works around book 5, but book 3 would be good as it's the direct sequel to 1, or maybe before you read 3 if you need the refresher of the characters
[–]Aedrik 47 points48 points49 points 9 months ago (21 children)
I've made my way to the 7th book now (Reapers Gate) and I gotta admit it's been getting harder to stay invested in the characters because he just... Won't... Stop... Adding more of them... The overarching story he presents is really epic and its what keeps me going. But I'd love to hear what happens to some of those characters in the earlier books that are never mentioned again. Caladan Brood is a good example, he's this ultra badass ascendant with a hammer that can shatter the earth itself, but then... He is basically never mentioned again...
Brood will be back in Orb, Scepter, Throne and in Forge of Darkness.
[–]h0ll0way 16 points17 points18 points 9 months ago (1 child)
Also he is in toll the hounds (book8)
Oh, right, it's been a long time since TTH came out.
A part of the reason he/they write like they do is because they want the Malazan world to mirror our own in the way that when viewing history ( both are anthropologists and archaeologists) not everything is knowable. Often you find clues to things you think happened but then it goes nowhere. I can understand how some readers hate that but I don't.
[–]Aedrik 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (3 children)
Thanks for your perspective, I hadn't thought of it that way. I still do intend to finish all the books even though I don't read with same vigour as when I started.
[–]Undead_Hedge 21 points22 points23 points 9 months ago (0 children)
The reason Ascendants don't show up too often is that the story isn't about people like Caladan Brood, it's about regular folks who have to live in a world that contains people like Caladan Brood. I like it better like this, since it maintains the feeling of overwhelming power that Ascendants are supposed to evoke.
[–]opeth10657 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Characters like Brood show up outside the main series. Have to remember that this is just one series in the Malazan universe.
[–]Narrative_Causality 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (4 children)
It sounds like he just adds characters whenever he needs someone to do something, instead of following a tight ensemble cast.
[–]Drakengard 13 points14 points15 points 9 months ago (0 children)
The Malazan is a world and not one conveniently constructed to wrap up neat and tidy.
A lot of characters will cross paths with the central Book of the Fallen series, but they themselves only show up because their own stories happen to line up with that specific time and place. They will then move on with their story elsewhere which isn't tied to the main story at all so you don't see them again.
The larger world of Malazan is alive. You see that in Esselmont's books where he often picks up some of these stories that are happening beyond the perspective of the Book of the Fallen narrative. We really shoudn't even call the Book of the Fallen series the "main series" because it's just one massive story pillar in a sea of stories that just happen to be occurring during the same timeframe as other equally intricate but tangential stories.
He's not just adding characters for the hell of it though I guess it can feel that way if you lock yourself out of everything else that the other books cover.
[–]Nunchuckz007 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Brood is in toll of hounds.
[–]Alugar 19 points20 points21 points 9 months ago * (22 children)
I got the audiobook on discount for the first one and I still haven't started it. You guys always scare me out of it lol.
Edit: welp y'all killed all the hopes of me doing the audio book I'll try out the light-bringer series instead.
[–][deleted] 9 months ago (4 children)
[–]Alugar 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children)
Oh wow I did not know about this , will definitely try it out thanks!
[–]Hurinfan 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (4 children)
I really don't recommend the audiobook for first timers. It's my favorite series by far but it's confusing enough as is without being forced to move forward.
[–]offtheclip 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I kind of liked the audiobook as a first timer.
[–]floppybeef 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I absolutely love the series but I cannot fathom how torturous it would be to listen to the audiobook. Do yourself a favor and don't even attempt the audiobook
[–]DianthaaReading Champion 2018 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I got the audiobook discounted, return it, bought a paperback, still not started it.
[–]Sleeze1 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children)
I listened to the audiobooks and it completely went over my head. I have just bought the actual book with a kindle token though so gonna have another run at it
[–]lovetoujours 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I'm actually going to disagree with all the other comments - I tried to read the actual book and never got into it. Having the audio book actually got me to finish it.
That being said, while I liked the booked, I probably won't read the rest of the series. I love the complexity of his world but his writing style is just not my cup of tea.
[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 9 months ago (18 children)
Any tips for people who just can't make it past the first book?
[–]valgranaire 17 points18 points19 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Try Tor.com's Reread of the Fallen. Excellent companion and commentaries. It's also relatively free of spoilers. The veteran rereader (I think his name was Bill) only gives you hints of things you should pay attention to, but no explicit reveals.
[–]Holmelunden 20 points21 points22 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Put it away and read something else.
I read the first 3½ books before I finaly gave up and came to the conclusion that Malazan is not for me.
Series probably isn't for you. The first book is the worst but it's still very good IMO. It's also still a good example of what the rest of the series is like.
Disagree! I quit GotM twice and on the third attempt I finished it (I wanted to know how people could be so ecstatic about it), then moved on to Deadhouse Gates. Now I'm ecstatic about it too :-)
[–]iamthedonquixoteStabby Winner[S] 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I also disagree. If I had began reading the series nowadays I would've quit early, and never gotten to realize how great the rest of the books are.
[–]GlobusBlaa 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (0 children)
The usual advice is to try and get past the first two hundred pages, that's when shit starts popping off.
But you can also just read book two first because it's mostly all new characters and a new continent. Deadhouse Gates is one of the best in the main series.
[–]Stollas 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I was the same. Honestly just force yourself through the first book and assume that it will make sense later. It's hard to do but it's worth it.
[–]Narrative_Causality 11 points12 points13 points 9 months ago (2 children)
[–]Cymas 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (1 child)
Try Deadhouse Gates instead. It's the second book but it happens at more or less the same time as the first one, just in a different place. The main story in DG is mostly contained and isn't nearly as rough as Gardens, which definitely shows as a first book, ie somewhat poorly compared to the rest. If you don't like DG, Malazan probably isn't a series for you.
[–]Soronir 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I read through the series many years ago. I don't remember like 95% of it but I also feel like if I re-read it now it'll make a lot more sense this time around. I might have to consider going through it again but the TBR pile is already enormous and new stuff keeps coming out. Stupid golden age of Fantasy /s.
[–]canyoudigit 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (21 children)
Seeing this makes me a little sad that I already started the Wheel of Time books. Oh well, I have much to look forward too.
Don't worry! I read the first 6 books of Malazan, then began the Wheel of Time, then interspersed the books between each other.
You'll love WoT! Despite the way it seems in this post, WoT is my all-time favorite fantasy series, and I've not even finished it.
[–]jonofan 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (2 children)
I read 4 WoT books and got tired. I love high fantasy and epics, but felt frustrated with the WoT books being almost eventless save the last couple chapters of each book. Is Malazan similar?
I started and finished WoT first and I'm glad I did. WoT has its moments and Sanderson did a great job wrapping up the story, but in overall I prefer Malazan by far.
[–]Amooses 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I would recommend anyone who wants to read Malazn read some of the other large series like WoT first. Wot is such a great series because its basically the poster child for what the basics of epic fantasy are. Like others have said Malazan is basically the pinnacle of high fantasy and it's good to have a base understanding of a lot of standards & tropes of fantasy writing. In the same vein if someone were trying to get into hard sci-fi I would say start with Dune and then work your way up to maybe Peter Watts stuff. All these writers really do build off stuff established before.
[–]HalcyonDaysAreGone 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I'm not going to be as brazen as the other replies and say one is straight out better than the other. They're both big series with passionate fans, and of course, flaws. Personally I like Malazan more but honestly I'm more envious of you being able to read both WoT and Malazan for the first time. You're in for a treat with both series'.
[–]ZoteTheMitey 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I'm so happy I read this series. Took me a whole year. I've never laughed or cried so many times reading books before or since
[–]DrStalker 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (2 children)
I read the first 7, had a break before the 8th, got around to it eventually, couldn't remember who any of the minor or mid-range importance characters were and had too much trouble following it.
Maybe one day I'll start the series over, but there are so many other things to read that's a lot of re-reading to commit to.
[–]Ethra2k 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
There is a series called reread of the Malazan or something like that where two people give a summary of every chapter in the books, heard that can be helpful for people getting back into the books.
[–]HalfMoon_89 12 points13 points14 points 9 months ago (4 children)
I read through Gardens and was underwhelmed, but intrigued enough to start Deadhouse. Then I bounced hard off of the beginning with the slave march. It's been a decade since then and the idea of slogging through Gardens again...does not appeal.
Honestly you can just get by with a summary of who the characters were in GotM. There are some characters that also show up in Deadhouse, but only one of them had any sort of complexity to their backstory.
If you read Deadhouse Gates and love it, then it may be worth more thoroughly revisiting GotM before reading Memories of Ice (which includes a LOT more of the characters from book 1). If you still bounce off it, then the series is probably just not for you, which is fine.
I will say for Deadhouse, most people who claim it as their favorite in the series love it mostly for the Duiker/Coltaine story lines. So if slave girl Felisin is boring you, don't worry too much about it. That story thread is important for the overall series, but you don't have to be invested in it right away.
[–]HalfMoon_89 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children)
Thanks, that is helpful. Given the much-touted complexity of Malazan, I have been leery of going forward without remembering the nitty-gritty of Gardens.
I should mention that Felisin wasn't boring me; I guess I have a particularly sensitive disposition maybe, because that bit just turned me off on its cruelty and brutality. I mean it's slavery, so of course, but the details were too much for me. That's why I bounced off of it.
Oh, then yeah, you may want to hard pass. As great as the series is (probably my favorite fantasy series). There are a lot of those gritty, graphic details spread throughout. I think it is fair enough to consider Malazan "Dark Epic Fantasy."
[–]Evolone16 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I just downloaded the first book, based on this post alone! I'm excited to dive in!
I read Erikson's preface and was stunned with how honest and sincere he was. I can tell these books mean a lot to him, despite them being difficult for a lot of readers. Can't wait to dive in.
[–]Funkula 73 points74 points75 points 9 months ago (72 children)
For me personally, I have a lot of problems with Malazan. My biggest problem is that, no matter how great of a story it is (and I suspect it is actually quite good), it's probably the worst way to write fantasy. Despite being an avid fan of the genre, I feel completely un-immersed in the world it is communicating. The same way my grandmother would feel reading wiki pages on Warhammer Fantasy Dark Elf lore. Every page introduces a new proper noun with little or no explanation. Every line of dialogue references something else unexplained or is entirely cryptic. After a while, it just got obnoxious.
Opening to a random page [64], the proper nouns are as follows: Tattersail, Tayschrenn, Calot, Tiste Andii, Crimson Guard, Empress, High Mage, Hairlock, Aren, High Fist, Dujeck, Malazans, Holy Falah, Panpot, Emperor
For comparison, page [63] of GRRM's Feast for Crows (page 64 was a short paragraph at the end of a chapter): Caleotte, Maester, Doran Martell, Areo Hotah, Dornishmen, Spear Tower.
Early in the first book, there's a battle scene that took me a long while to decode. Some soldiers were on a plain attacking something for some reason, while Moon's Spawn, Moon's Lord, Moon, and Pale entered into some kind of magic battle. Despite the well-written description of the event, I couldn't visualize and immerse myself into what was actual happening. Which is decidedly not why I read books.
I have no doubt the book gets better, and more enticingly, gets comprehensible. Until then, it felt like I was reading huge blocks of meaningless text to serve the purpose of getting to the part where the book starts.
[–]HalfMoon_89 26 points27 points28 points 9 months ago (1 child)
I found Gardens confusing and unfocused, and most importantly, I couldn't connect with any of the characters or the world, because the author seemed intent on making it all deliberately obtuse.
[–]thethiefofsouls 49 points50 points51 points 9 months ago (15 children)
God i empathize with this so much. I am listening to the audio book now and even if i focus on it 100% its like im just listening to fucking gibberish. The witch/sorceress/female character who isnt "sorry" is playing tarot/magic the gathering/go fish with ?SOMEONE? and there's a coin involved? Like im reading the wikipedia page and the summary of the story sounds fine but this has to be the worst way ive read a story in my life. The story is told with little to no exposition and like i'd hate it if it dumped exposition without care but this book picks up en media res in the worst way. Is a warren magic? a gateway? a spell? What is a moon spawn? like, this is the equivilant to reading the flavor text of half a dozen magic the gathering cards across 10 sets and trying to string together a narrative and i hate it.
[–]Mr_Mumbercycle 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (0 children)
To each their own, I suppose. I really enjoyed piecing all of those things together based upon the context and then refining that understanding as I moved along. Please note that unlike others have stated, I never referred to the glossary or outside sources, enough was present in the text to work out an understanding of what was going on.
By contrast, I cannot stand Brandon Sanderson and his need to constantly explain exactly how this piece of magic works, why someone wears this kind of armor, etc.
Audiobook is a bad idea for 1st read of Malazan. Too easy to drift away and so many details easily get missed/skipped.
Tattersail (the sorceress) was doing a reading of Deck of Dragon, a tarot-like system to foretell the shifting of major powers in the world.
The coin is the symbol of Oponn, the Twin God of Chance. Whenever it's spinning, a major thing is to be decided, and it can be good or bad.
Warrens are parallel dimensions/planes of magic. You can travel on them as shortcuts, but you can also draw magic from them. Most warrens are assigned to unique aspects (e.g. healing, light, illusion, shadow, etc.)
Moon Spawn is the floating fortress of Tiste Andii, a dark elf-like people led by their lord, Anomander Rake.
I found it easier to piece together the information bits on paper/screen rather than audio. Perhaps because I could access the glossary any time, and the written words gave me visual cues.
[–]riverphoenixdays 20 points21 points22 points 9 months ago (1 child)
I think this is apt advice in a way, but unfortunately I think many of us fantasy readers hate to have to "research" the books we're reading. That's what I found myself doing in Book 1 and it really just tore me right out of the story.
My biggest problem with Malazan, however, is that I found the characters actually underwrought and the emotional connection quite forced. It was clear Erikson has a deep connection to these characters, but I felt he very much missed the "show, don't tell" with almost all of them in the first two books.
That's why Malazan is an acquired/esoteric taste, simply not for everyone but there's a strong following of it, like a sharp-smelling cheese or century egg or spicy curry.
I agree that the series is significantly more plot-heavy rather than character-heavy, but of course, YMMV again. I connected quickly with Tool and Tattersail in the first book, and it only got better from there.
[–]againstxme 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I read through the 10 main books of the series about 7 years ago and I distinctly remember being very confused by warrens in the beginning. By the third book you kind of get an understanding of what they are. Only in a book much later (5 or 6) does it actually explain exactly what warrens are at which point you already knew but it's also kind of rewarding.
That's pretty much how I felt about the whole series (which I loved). It's dense and confusing and in those early books it just feels like way too much but eventually if you just power through it all starts to make sense.
There is a short piece floating about where Erikson himself analyzes that battle - an excellent read if you want to understand the thought put into just this one short sequence. Could make you appreciate it more.. or not.
[–]Cathalgburke 28 points29 points30 points 9 months ago (18 children)
This is my exact feelings about this series.
I also really don't appreciate the tone of some of these posts that suggest that if you don't like the series it's because you aren't smart enough to appreciate the "complexity". In my opinion if it takes 3 books before you understand something then the writer is failing.
This. The likelihood that the writer got better is given only a slight nod by a lot of commenters, while most insist that it's all according to a grand plan that some are just not capable of seeing. It's annoying really.
[–]Mr_Mumbercycle 14 points15 points16 points 9 months ago (4 children)
I thought it was kind of an accepted fact that Erikson got better. :) There is nearly a ten year gap between the time he wrote the first and second books. In that time he attended the vaunted Iowa Writer's Workshop, and it shows.
I think the issue isn't one of intelligence, but rather what you expect in terms of story telling. I have recommended the series to a few friends who are plenty smart enough, but they didn't really care for the fact that the reader is dropped off into the middle of an existing world without any sort of setup, and expected to fend for themselves.
Conversely, a coworker of mine who hadn't read much outside of Harry Potter, and liked to watch Game of Thrones, overheard me describing the series to someone else and asked to borrow Gardens of the Moon. She loved it, finished the series, and convinced her husband to read it.
[–]xarallei 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago * (1 child)
I think the "complexity" of the series is greatly overhyped. I went in hearing this, then read the series and didn't find it hard to follow. That said the whole in media res style is just not for everyone. That has nothing to do with being smart though. It comes down to personal preference.
I don't feel it's bad writing or a failure though. I think it's more that the writing style just doesn't click for you. And that is totally okay.
That said, I DO think the ending of GotM is poorly done. That book is the weakest in the series and could definitely use a re-write. Though it's probably the only point in the series where I feel that way.
I completely agree. I try to stress with others that I think it has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence, and much more to do with a reader's tolerance for incomplete knowledge within the narrative. People read for different reasons, and have different expectations. Nothing wrong with that.
[–]valgranaire 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (3 children)
I understand the book 1 just fine, it's just only in the 3rd book that the 'endgame' or the grand plot made clear.
Reading is a pretty subjective experience and I don't think it's fair to say the writer is failing when there are readers who are able to connect to the story. It's simply a niche/esoteric taste.
[–]Anomander-Raake 21 points22 points23 points 9 months ago (7 children)
As strange as it is, I actually think Erikson wrote these books not intending for us as readers to digest everything on our first read through. Its pretty insanely gutsy and presumptive but it works. I am approximately 950 pages into The Crippled God (book 10) and every single page I am blown away at how well its tying together all the loose ends and threads of story and how many "click" moments there are.
[–]idkwattodonow 13 points14 points15 points 9 months ago (4 children)
So how important/valuable is a re-read of the series once you've finished it? What about 3rd party resources i.e. wiki etc.
I don't mind some things not being explained but GoTM really - for me - wasn't engrossing at all. The only thing that's really pushing me to continue is the fact that it keeps popping up.
That said, I didn't hate GoTM so I'm not against reading it.
[–]TheLagDemon 9 points10 points11 points 9 months ago (0 children)
What about 3rd party resources i.e. wiki etc.
I'm a big fan of The Re-read of the Fallen on the TOR website. It's a blog following a new reader working their way through the series and another who is reading back through it.
It didn't have a chance to check it out during my first read through (because it didn't exist yet), but I did really enjoy reading the posts after the fact. I was particularly struck by how perceptive the first time reader is, and how many things they picked up on just thanks to a careful reading It made me realize that GotM in particular had a lower learning curve, things were understandable than I'd realized the first time through, and that that i hadnt picked up on sime things that i should have. (In fairness, some things are explained once so you can kinda blink and miss it)
I'd definitely recommend anyone new to the series check it out. Its basically spoiler free and I think it provides a useful perspective on how to approach the series.
Re-reading the series isn't important to enjoying or understanding the story. The series will return to certain events and show them from a different character (or characters) perspectives, sometimes books apart. So you'll get some of that same sort of experience of returning to familiar ground that you'd get with a re-read as you work your way through the series
[–]Drakengard 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child)
So how important/valuable is a re-read of the series once you've finished it?
I mean, you don't have to re-read the series to "get it" if that's the concern. I'm currently re-reading it myself and it's even better on a re-read because of the ability to better identify foreshadowing and other things that Erikson slips in, but it's a great series no matter what.
It just might be infuriating for certain readers depending on their expectations. /u/Funkala mentioned it feeling like a wiki page which just never applied to me. I was fine with proper nouns popping up that didn't mean much to me. So long as I knew what it generally was - a person, a city, etc. - that was enough for me. I trusted that Erikson would provide the necessary context in time and that I should note the name and focus on the character and plot stuff that is the key driver for reading in the first place.
[–]Solomons_GateDG 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
See, I actually loved the story, but I still felt very confused and unresolved after the ending. It honestly felt kinda like a bunch of random storylines and twists just sort of thrown together.
Idk, I liked it. But it was def a confusing experience for me, honestly.
[–]LOLtohru 9 points10 points11 points 9 months ago (1 child)
I'm super interested in the fact that you tried to quantify the density of proper nouns! I don't doubt that Malazan has more than average but I'd be curious if anyone tried to calculate it more methodically.
If this hurt your enjoyment and the many Malazan fans haven't convinced you to try again I wouldn't urge you to change your mind. Malazan isn't for everyone and that's fine.
I will say that there's a moment in the last book where someone says to Quick Ben "Why don't you stop being cryptic and just say what's going on?" and he responds by rattling off a MASSIVE chain of proper nouns covering all the different conflicts. I had a very satisfying moment when I realized that not only did I know what all those nouns meant... I'd spent hundreds of pages with most of them.
A moment like that isn't worth reading a series you're not enjoying of course. But I hope that it helps explain why I found Malazan rewarding despite the steepness of the learning curve.
[–]mithoron 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Personally I doubt it matters at all. I had a harder time reading The Iliad because I found the names so simultaneously foreign and similar. Keeping them separate was tough. While I did have some flashbacks to that reading GotM (there's a lot of similarity between the two) I think there was more effort placed in differentiating cultures by their naming conventions which gives a new reader a better fighting chance at keeping the ideas straight. Knowing the author's background I'm willing to bet that the difference was entirely intentional. It's also a point in the story where missing some of the deeper meaning behind a name or title doesn't really affect the immediate story being told in that first book.
On top of that, reading through that example list I don't remember having any problem picking up what I needed to know about those names from context. I remember desperately wanting to know more about them than I got at the time, but I've read enough epic fantasy to know that if they're important, they'll be back on camera soon enough. I'm nearly done with book 10 and that assumption has proved correct.
[–]unicorntea 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (1 child)
Yeah, came here to say this. I LOVE large scale fantasy and watching complex plots and large casts weave together. I love so much that was described by OP, but I tried Gardens of the Moon like 5 times and poor writing choices meant I didn't give a crap because it lacked a center, even in the way of defining terms or helping the reader visualize what is happening, regardless of the why. What good is a book written in another language to me if I have no way to decode it? I'm still shocked the editors let that fly.
Maybe he got better though. Maybe I'll sample pieces of the other books to see if his craft got better, in which case I'll wiki synopsis the first and maybe read it again once all the terms and characters and setting get some kind of definition.
[–]Bookwyrm43 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
He gets considerably better in the technical aspects of writing (without ever getting to a point that I'd call "good" , but edging upwards to the elusive realm of "no longer distractingly bad"), but remains in essence the same person. Thus series is deeply flawed, even if it does have it's moments.
[–]SpeeDy_GjiZa 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I mean that's what the books are all about. You are dropped dead middle in the conflict and you better strap on for the wild ride. It might be confusing but is more organic to me, just being a witness to events that have been going in this world for years and years. Feels like things happen even without me being there, it's a living ever changing world and we can't witness everything in it.
[–]Undead_Hedge 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (1 child)
Those first scenes are pretty rough to get through, it did indeed feel like reading a Warhammer book without knowing anything about Warhammer. The magic battle does serve a very important purpose though -- it establishes almost all the rules for magic. You see nearly everything human-scale magic can do in that battle. It's not so great from a storytelling perspective, but it was a really elegant way to explain the series' magic system.
If it helps, it's only the first part of the first book that is like that. Once you're a little more established, the books are a breeze. People overstate how hard they are to read, if you're paying attention and enjoying the worldbuilding then you'll catch everything you need to know.
It also sets up one of the first main conflicts: the tension between Tayschren and the surviving mages.
[–]Shrimpdriver 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago * (2 children)
All these comments that have said "Malazan" in different threads, do they all refer to Book of the fallen or are there different Malazan series?
[–]RevolutionaryCommand 10 points11 points12 points 9 months ago (0 children)
99% they refer to Book of the Fallen.
[–]Esa1996 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Malazan Book of the Fallen (10 books), Novels of the Malazan Empire (6 books), Path to Ascendancy (3 books), Kharkanas Trilogy (Currently 2 books), Bauchelain & Korbal Broach (6 short stories) and Witness Trilogy (1st book is being written), all take place in the Malazan world. Malazan Book of the Fallen is still definitely the "main series" and it is what most people refer to when they say "Malazan".
[–]ab_ra_ca_dabba 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago * (0 children)
Memories of Ice was the first novel I read in the series. I was blown away from the first page. It is my favorite book in the series too.
You forget the emotions he invokes. Within extreme violence you see the love and compassion shining through.
[–]FancySkull 12 points13 points14 points 9 months ago (13 children)
Even Brandon Sanderson says that Gardens of the moon has one of the steepest learning curves he has ever seen in a fantasy novel.
[–]AsdrubalStrombole 9 points10 points11 points 9 months ago (0 children)
"Even"?
[–]RevolutionaryCommand 11 points12 points13 points 9 months ago (1 child)
It's Erikson not EriCkson.
As someone you is reading the books for the first time and is enjoying them very much, I think you have to mention that they are very slow-paced. I believe that's what kills the books for a lot of the readers.
Also, I really disagree with the "very complex/confusing, you have to read up to book X to understand what's going on". That's not true. I never hav problem to understand or follow the main plotline. Yes, some details are lost and yes the macro-plot may may need some books to fully get it, but the micro-plot is always relatively easy to follow.
[–]geminaldi14 9 points10 points11 points 9 months ago (1 child)
2013 I was feeling lonely and out of place when I treaded into the bookstore, scanned the bookshelves for something that could cheer me up. I grabbed Gardens of the Moon off the shelves only knowing it was book 1 of a fantasy series. I've only ever read children's fantasy books then. I was in for a pleasant surprise.
What you say is true, there is a wall. It took a while to get into GotM, but I was hell bent on understanding the complexity of the world. Heck I've never used so many bookmarks while reading before. By Memories of Ice I was making mind maps of the plot and characters, and that's when I broke through. It was crazy and fun, and that's when i realized I loved high fantasy. Since encountering Erikson's writing, I've been a lot picky with the next fantasy books I'd read. He's the gold standard of epic fantasy and I feel everyone's missing out because they're too obsessed with GRRM.
I can't recommend him enough but I guess he's not for everybody. MBotF is a heavy read, I can't deny that, I'm just a casual reader myself. Erikson will always be my favorite.
Anyway, thank you for this post. You've articulated well. I'll be linking this to friends still on the fence about starting the series. 🤗
[–]FrightenedRunner 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago * (2 children)
What's malazan? This is the first time I've ever saw seen it mentioned.
[–]RisingRapture 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children)
That's why I am here - to get new ideas for my incredibly long To Read List.
[–]Meneros 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I started reading this series last year, starting with the main series. I finished Midnight Tides last night, and I must say I love this series. I was hesitant at first when reading Gardens (which I loved parts of, and disliked other parts of), but it only gets better!
[–]rjmk 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children)
[–]RealisticCount 11 points12 points13 points 9 months ago (0 children)
It is my favorite high-fantasy series and it has spoiled me. I'm going through it second time, this time reading through it back-to-back without having to wait for books to be written/released.
It's not for everyone though. As OP mentions, some of it makes no sense at all until book or two later. Sometimes a storyline is left in cliffhanger or partially unresolved while the narrative goes somewhere else for 400 pages.
It's not an easy read. But it's hood damned good one!
[–]TinheadNed 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (43 children)
How does it compare to Stormlight Archive? I've read two of those and enjoyed them but they're hard work.
Also, is it ten books of grimdark or something a bit more optimistic?
[–]ldb3589 12 points13 points14 points 9 months ago (1 child)
So this is all just my opinion and I am only on book 6. I like them both a lot. In terms of overall story Malazan is definitely darker than Stormlight but it isn't as pessimistic (don't know if that is the exact right adjective) as The first laws series. Malazan is a good bit more violent and characters have the feeling that they can die. It is also slower and feels bigger but Stormlight is on book 3 so that isn't a fair comparison.
I'd go with nihilistic over pessimistic. First Law puts forward the idea that attempting to be a hero is pointless, and that people don't change.
Malazan says that change and being a good guy is difficult, but its worth it. It says that compassion is a worthwhile endeavor and that it is a powerful emotion.
They both use dark events and evil deeds to explore these themes, but the underlying messages is one of nihilism vs faith.
The dark thing is a key issue. I struggled through Gardens and then bounced off of the beginning of Deadhouse because it was too brutal for me.
I'd say if you find the Stormlight Archive hard but enjoyable, Malazan is considerably harder and much less focused.
[–]Destriant_of_Perish 8 points9 points10 points 9 months ago (8 children)
I'd rather say it feels unfocused but it most certainly isn't. It's razor sharp, but to understand just how this gargantuan puzzle works, well you have to get deep into it. It requires the reader's focus.
Maybe diffuse is a better word, if unfocused sounds too critical.
I admit I rather dislike this kind of reframing because it basically tells the reader it's their fault they can't get into the books. That's something else that turns me off of them, frankly.
I would argue that it is incredibly unfocused, and that that's the primary problem with the novels as a whole. He gives himself too much of a loose tether, and doesn't refine a lot of ideas to their greatest potential in my opnion.
[–]BobRawrley 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I think Malazan's characters are more complex. Sanderson's characters always seem a little one dimensional to me. They feel one extremely strong emotion at a time, until something major happens, and then they feel that other extremely strong emotion. Malazan's characters have more nuance, and there's also a lot more of them, so you get some variation beyond "Kaladin wanted to die, and he's wanted to die for the last 100 pages."
In terms of background, I thought Stormlight was easier than Malazan. Stormlight generally answers the big world-building questions in the same book that they're raised; Malazan, not so much. Personally I like this about Malazan, because it keeps the world feeling big and mysterious even until late in a detailed 10-book series. But I never had a problem with characters with no background or exposition appearing, or magic with no context being used, which is what Malazan does sometimes.
I wouldn't say Malazan is relentlessly grimdark. It certainly has its grimdark arcs, and certain major characters are pretty tragic. But it's a big series, and story arcs begin and end, and some of them are more optimistic than others. It's pretty cynical, though, and lots of times the grimdarkness is relieved by gallows humor rather than an arc resolving happily. In general the whole series is built on the premise that the greater, ancient powers of the world really aren't much better at not screwing things up than regular mortals. So every character is dealing with the fallout of someone's mistakes, either made 10,000 years ago, or a decade ago. In that sense, it's pretty dark.
[–]TRAIANVS 18 points19 points20 points 9 months ago (2 children)
It is very dark at times, but there is plenty of comedy as well (Erikson is a fantastic humorist) and the core message of the series is extremely hopeful.
Curious about the dark/optimist thing too
Copy pasted my comment from earlier
They're both stories told by the characters with likeable characters. They're both very complex. They both have lots of magic. The stories in both often have important stuff happen in the past that is important to events now. The prose is very different. I prefer Erikson's style but I think Sanderson has improved a lot.
Malazan and Stormlight are my #1 and 2 series respectively.
Lastly, it isn't grimdark. I hate grimdark. It is dark though. I've always said Malazan shows the best and worst of humanity using mostly non-human characters. There are parts filled with despair and parts where you want to cry because you're moved by compassion. The point of the entire series is a plead for compassion.
[–]Undead_Hedge 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (2 children)
I think of Malazan as "anti-grimdark." There are many times where it gets darker than almost all of the "grimdark" books I've read (apart from the Second Apocalypse), but its message is much more optimistic. It's not a lighthearted series and there are lots of horrific things in the books, but you shouldn't come away from it with a feeling of hopelessness. It's also an emotional series, my reading experience was very cathartic.
[–]xarallei 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children)
It is VERY grim and dark at times. Some very tragic and brutal things happen to many of the characters. It's really nothing like SA. That's light and fluffy in comparison. However, it's not all bleak and nihilistic as many grimdark stories are. The underlying themes are compassion and mercy. So there is that darkness, but underneath all the darkness is hope.
[–]FOXHOUND9000 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children)
It's extremely dark at times, but the series is still a great example of Earn Your Happy Ending trope: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EarnYourHappyEnding
[–]Hurinfan 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I think Stormlight has crazier world and alien rules, but easier prose to digest. Malazan worldbuilding is great, but it's seldom spelled out by the narrator. Often times, you have to draw your own conclusion from the dialogue or action on screen.
I think Stormlight is more focused on an intimate cast, while Malazan is more sprawling.
Malazan is dark but never grimdark, if anything, it is an ode to heroism, selflessness, and compassion.
I haven't read stormlight so I can't really comment.
The malazan series is dark in the sense that our real world is dark. Children die. People get raped. The bad guys sometimes never get punished. Tragedy happens.
That being said, the books are optimistic and hopeful. There's plenty of heroism, and there are happy endings. The ultimate themes of the series are of hope and compassion. Way more optimistic than the First Law I'd say
[–]KingJ91 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children)
Is the malazan series still going?
[–]FreddeCheese 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children)
The main 10 book series is done, but there are still plenty of books written in the universe, containing characters from that main series.
[–]Destriant_of_Perish 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Erikson is currently writing a new trilogy set after the main series.
[–]ItstheWolf 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I'm 57. I no longer have the patience to wait until the third 700 page plus book before I start to understand it.
Marc Maron does a great routine on "I don't know how much time I have left":
If someone comes up to me like, "Oh, man, you don't listen to Phish? You gotta listen to Phish." "I don't know how much time I've got left. I really, you know…" [audience applauding] And what if I like it? That's like the rest of my life, right? [audience laughing] I've got no more room in my heart or my mind for another jam band, man. I mean, I've got half the Grateful Dead catalog in there, and three or four Allman Brothers songs. I'm maxed out. I'm filled up."
I feel the same way about multi-huge-volume fantasy series. I fell out halfway through The Dragonbone Chair because, well, I don't know how much time I have left.
[–]alcoholicmuppet 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago (2 children)
Is the difficulty of this series to understand overstated? I've read series like The Wheel of Time and A Song of Ice and Fire without any difficulty following along. Is Malazan really on a whole other level?
Yeah it's absolutely overstated. If you can read WoT and ASOIAF and follow along, you'll be fine. The books aren't that hard lol.
[–]LordGeneralTimmy 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (7 children)
I actually liked Book 1: Gardens of the Moon on my second attempt, the ending was a bit meh to be honest because I felt like the author cheated a bit. Many told me Book 2: Deadhouse Gates was going to be better and while the prologue was fantastic, about 15% in I'm not feeling any motivation to keep going. Does it get better? Are all the endings like Book 1?
[–]GlobusBlaa 9 points10 points11 points 9 months ago (0 children)
The ending of book two is very different and... Well, I won't spoil anything but it's significant.
[–]lauchs 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (0 children)
It gets so much better.
Deadhouse is a little odd but good goddamn the middle and end of that book... And later on, reflecting on some of the personal journeys of those characters is pretty wild.
The endings do tend to be epic and kind of a crazy finale but not as deus ex machina feeling as the first one. (Although, that does get explained later on.)
[–]Anomander-Raake 3 points4 points5 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Have you read The Wheel of Time? Not that the series are similar at all, but I think they both have their own periods of slog. For different reasons, granted. It took me about 7 months to finish Dust of Dreams (book 9) and i've read 950 pages of book 10 in a little over two weeks. I think the more invested you become in the story and the deeper your understanding gets of the intricacies and characters, the easier it is to read. I said this to someone else but I really think these books were written to be consumed multiple times.
One explanation I've read about the book 1 ending that makes sense to me is that it was adapted from a screen play which Erikson and Esslemont had been trying to sell for several years. There are a couple set piece fights which you could imagine looking great on the screen, but perhaps didn't work so well in a book.
The rest of the books don't have this problem of being adapted. In fact all of them have this concept of convergence, which seems to be a metaphysical aspect of the Malazan universe, where great powers are drawn to one another, and inevitably such convergences happen at the ending of each book (and sometimes in the middle too). Believe me, there are many great endings ahead of you.
[–]xarallei 2 points3 points4 points 9 months ago * (8 children)
I love Malazan. It's epic and full of tragedy and yet also full of hope. However, I don't know that I agree with you on the "three dimensional characters" comment. I think characterization is by far, the weakest point of Malazan. There are simply too many characters and not enough time to give most of them any real depth. It's a very story driven series, rather than character driven.
This doesn't mean you won't care about any of the characters. There are a few characters that are a bit more fleshed out, so you do come to care about them more. I definitely teared up a various points in the series. It's just that, like I said before, there are too many PoVs. He definitely could have edited a lot out and given more depth to other characters.
If someone is very much into character driven stories, this might not be the series for them. That doesn't mean they shouldn't give it a shot though. I'm mostly a character driven story person and I still ended up enjoying the series immensely.
[–]Deadhouse_Gates 6 points7 points8 points 9 months ago (2 children)
I don't know how this will be received, but even though a lot of the characters in Malazan are badass and/or funny, I feel that many of them aren't all that fleshed out, notable exceptions aside (Karsa's journey being a prime example).
The fact that additional characters are being added to an already stacked cast as late as 9 books in also feels jarring; I'd have much preferred Erikson had fleshed out the characters we already knew instead of throwing even more characters into the mix.
[–]MDCCCLV 7 points8 points9 points 9 months ago (21 children)
Is it an actual story though? The risk to the way he said he writes it as a history makes it seem like it could just be a bunch of stuff happening with no real plan.
[–]yyzable 15 points16 points17 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Yes, there is a definite story, consisting of multiple interlinking stories.
[–]some_sleuth 5 points6 points7 points 9 months ago (2 children)
I'm on my first read through, currently on Book 4, and I'm in love with the story. It took me a while to realise that this isn't a story about Big Boss Battles and God vs God Smackdown; it is a story about humanity.
As someone who is completely over grimdark, I've found Malazan really refreshing. Yes it's tough, there are character and story arcs that ruined me for days, but so far it's always come back to an uplifting message that the choices and personal victories of the little guy matter.
[–]Lemonadas 4 points5 points6 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I'm on memories of ice and I must say I'm almost sure it will be my favorite saga once I finish it. I love it so much, its epicness just defies every book I've ever read and I just aim to be able to create something so imense and great as he did!
However, I always tell people I advise to read Gardens of the Moon I only understood what the plot was about after 400 pages of reading. But it still was amazing to be immersed in something so big I just wasnt yet able to connect the dots.
Now I just keep on loving it so much! Just me telling my friends what is happening they lose their minds without even reading the books.
Thank you Erikson!
[–]Dithyrab 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Thanks man! I've had a copy of 'The Crippled God' from my mom for like 3 years and looked at it, but never read it because i knew this was a whole "thing"
This will help me flesh out my collection Immensely
[–]xhulifactor 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I would appreciate this ten times more if I could actually get a readable size of that chart at the beginning of the post
[–]Rhodesm96 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I just bought Gardens of the Moon a few days ago but haven't started it yet, thanks for the info
[–]theborbes 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I read the first one, it was okay. If the books weren't so long I might have continued
[–]jTronZero 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I wanted to like these books, but I almost felt like they were written with contempt for the reader. Like the author didn't think we deserved basic explanations for anything that was going on because his world was so complex and amazing and if we were too stupid to figure it out, that's our problem. I should give them another go sometime, but I mostly found myself annoyed with them the first time. Think I read 2 or 3.
[–]Brutus_Khan 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I have been stuck on "Toll the Hounds" for a few years now. It's quite a daunting read to complete the whole series. That being said, I could never read another word and MBotF would still be my favorite book series ever. One of these days I'll finish it
[–]zipzipzazoom 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
Thanks mate, I appreciate this
[–]CenterOfTheUniverse 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I'm in the middle of House of Chains right now. I love the series but it is definitely an acquired taste. It seems like each book starts out with so many people, events, and concepts that I was left confused. It's almost as if Erikson is talking to you like you should know what he's talking about. I'm one of those readers who wants to catalog and understand everything. I had to learn to let go of that and just immerse myself and let the story unfold. I had to teach my brain to shut up, stop asking so many questions, and just listen to the story. Once I learned how to do that I really got into the series.
[–]Amooses 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
It's crazy to see just how many different takeaways people have to the same series. Almost every post someone has something different to say about how it made them feel or why they liked it or didn't like it. I think that's one of the biggest indicators of why it can be considered such a masterpiece is when something gives so many different things to different people.
[–]DragonReborn915 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children)
I just finished the series literally today and as a huge fan of the genre I believe it may be one of the richest, most unique worlds I've ever had the pleasure of inhabiting, and the story is incredibly deep and convoluted. I'm still struck by the scope of it.
load more comments (116 replies)
Advertise - entertainment
π Rendered by PID 17585 on r2-app-0e7a1d622329a3a82 at 2020-01-20 09:37:42.048749+00:00 running 06f7e34 country code: US.