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Posted on January 17, 2019 by accordingtohoyt
I grew up in a world where there was absolutely no doubt about gender roles, and gender roles were seriously enforced.
I don't know if I fit in badly because — my being very sickly — my mother dressed me as a boy, because she was convinced my legs being exposed to the air would make me ill. So, I was wearing pants from the moment I got outside. And because clothes are important to mom, she didn't do what other moms did in the situation and put a skirt over it, because "that's crazy."
In the same way, I was allergic to gold (still am, though not as much) so I couldn't wear earrings, even clip ons. Let's all be glad I had long hair, or the demands I drop trou and prove I'm a woman would be even stronger. (Of course I never obeyed. Like the boy named Sue, I could fight before I could walk. In my defense, being terminally uncoordinated, I think I only walked without falling for no reason by the age of 14.)
So I never fit in properly, but I never fit in backwards and sideways. And maybe in a way that saved me.
Look, the gender roles were incredibly restrictive. Women reading regency romances was a bit too intellectual (at least in public.) Women reading science fiction didn't have a place to fit. Same with math, same with…
I hear people talking about how they were discouraged from math, because someone once told them that women couldn't do math. Ah! I think these are women who heard things from their grandmothers, and want to have their own oppression too.
That is not oppression. Oppression, if you're a weird woman (me) who likes math and science and history is having it ASSUMED you can't exist. Teachers acted like it was a miracle when I spoke up. And almost everyone gave me various hidden warnings. Hidden warnings, "Well, dear, that's very nice, but why don't you read a nice romance?" And "What you should do is go to a dance or two."
Were they wrong? Kind of. I mean the roles were perhaps too tight. And it ignored that women can also have intellectual/scientific interests. But it wasn't wrong in another way, because you know, women in that society couldn't really thrive if they insisted in going against everything in the society.
I mean, it was wrong in a … fairness and in a individual freedom and happiness way. But what people who tried to get me to fall in line were doing was trying to help me, because it was just the way society was. You can be eccentric — except we weren't rich enough to. We were at most weird — but you need to learn to fake it, to keep it at home, to hide it. Because society at large isn't about you, it's about working.
I could sort of fake it, but I could never fit in, and of course, I came across the ocean in search of a place I could.
Before I did so, though, the times had achanged and there was another way of fitting in: women were told that what they mostly did in Portuguese society, i.e. dress nicely, be domestic and dream of a family was wrong and bad and to be liberated they had to reject all that.
And women did, partly — I think — because some number were as unhappy as I was, but partly because women are the sex that conforms. No, this is not a sexist slur. Women just seem to be brain-and-behavior wise more group oriented and oriented towards conforming. People have been looking for the way to stop this starting in kindergarten. I'm not sure it should be stopped, but that's something else, since it doesn't seem to be working. Women hit puberty and become more likely to conform to expectations.
To explain this feminists have invented an all-pervading masculinity and have hit the limits of insanity in claiming the US is a patriarchy (someone needs to send them to Saudi-Arabia for a year) but that's because they don't read biological studies in other species.
There there have been studies done with fish and birds and some mammals, that if a female sees a male being successful with other women, he's immediately more attractive. Or that females are more likely to learn and adopt behaviors, if the whole group learns and adopts them.
This might in fact be a very old part of the hormonally induced changes in brains. I have in the past tried to explain it with just so stories, since women tended to work while watching kids, and maybe the kids of women in favor with the group would have more chances of survival. But some of these sexual characteristics and impulses go all the way back, to some forgotten finny (eh) ancestor who nested in groups, who knows? and females needed to get along with other females until the spawn were safe.
No one really knows, but it seems to be true. From the way all our characteristics, including intelligence seem to cluster in a median, which means most women are "average" (but we have fewer geniuses and morons, so there's that.) to the way women will enforce social modes and manners on other women, across cultures, it seems like most women just want a "conformity" to conform to.
So when it became fashionable to be liberated, they all became liberated. It might have been around that time that I developed an interest in embroidery and lace. Now probably not because I was contrary, but because I THINK I had finally outgrown the sensory issues that made anything like that difficult before around 17. (Girls outgrow them earlier than boys, who usually drag them through 19.)
It baffled me though that all of a sudden the fact I sat down and did crochet (still do) or embroidery while reading was viewed as as bad as the fact I read science fiction (Which was still considered crazy.) Now I was supposed to conform by smoking (well, I did that to for a year, until my lungs told me it was a bad idea), swearing, reading intellectual books with lots of sex (like putting an urn in a picture makes it art, putting Marxism in a book makes the sex okay) and say I was never going to marry (most of those women still did. The pose was, like the previous craft magazines and embroidered trousseau just the new way to catch a male.)
I'm obviously one of the few women who are born to be outliers (genius or moron, sometimes it depends on the day) because I could never understand why I had to conform to EITHER stereotype. I liked wearing jeans. I had an interest in history and science fiction, and science (though for various reasons limited means of studying it) and I liked hanging out with guys who had the same interests. I smoked, mostly to give myself something to do with my hands. I made off color jokes, because my mind works that way. But I could control the off color around elderly relatives. And I liked kids and wanted to have kids some day (though thoroughly convinced no man would ever marry me.) I also wanted to have a job (even though writing was out of sight as something that would pay the bills. Not then, not in that world.) And yeah, if I sat down in the evening to watch TV or listen to an audio book, I'd likely be embroidering or doing crochet, or painting cute animals, or… I mean, why not?
I NEVER UNDERSTOOD the "you must conform in all things. ALL OR NOTHING."
I still don't. But most people seem to function that way. Women more than men, but people in general. All or nothing, and adopting the "new way of being"in order to be cool (like everyone else.)
People were very shocked that young women feel COMPELLED to sleep around even if they don't want it. I'm not. Because the way it was promoted was "if you're liberated you'll sleep around. If you don't sleep around you're a slave of the patriarchy" i.e. you're wrong, and dumb and you'll stick out.
It's apparently not working very well. Because, you know, women in general don't want to sleep around as much as men (some do, sure, but it's SOME not the majority.) Again it seems to be some deep wiring, which makes perfect sense in the days before contraceptives. The person with two dozen children each with different fathers is going to have a hell of a time rearing them in a world red in tooth and claw where men's superior strength is needed to hunt and defend the family. I don't know if anyone bothered slut shaming as such, but I know in that type of world, I'd totally have slut shamed a daughter. For the same reason people telling me to conform, back in Portugal, weren't wrong.
But more than that, this was true when we were apes, moving in ape bands. Without a strong male, the band got taken over by another band and the females got killed or reimpregnated, while all the juveniles were killed.
Attaching to a male is very, very deep in the female brain. Dino brain, maybe fish brain, definitely ape brain.
Telling women they can just have sex with whomever is great, (no seriously, the minority that always wanted to should be able to, and now they don't have to worry about having kids they don't want. And it's their life) but telling women they SHOULD have lots of casual sex isn't. It doesn't really work for most females, but they'll do it because it is "the new expected."
So women do it, but hate it, and feel used, and turn against men. And then all men are suddenly "Toxic" in their masculinity. And now we must work on men to behave more like women. Which btw, is going to go over like a lead balloon. What you're going to do is create some truly toxic males, because you're telling them that's what males ARE.
And we must worry about internalized patriarchy which is so powerful it's invisible and that's how we know it exists.
Look, males always thought more about sex than females. And always interpreted Romance as SEX. It's what being a man is.
It amused me because a small group of us were talking about flirting, and I loved flirting when I was young. This is when a male friend I didn't know at that time, but who was (I've seen pictures) very cute told me if I'd shown any attention to him at 17 or 19 he'd have assumed I wanted sex. Because that's how his brain interpreted any woman paying attention to him. At 17 or 19 I might have been interested in him, but I wouldn't want to SLEEP with him. Not right away. I'd want to have a relationship first. And in this, I think I was a fairly typical teen female.
In this brave new world, women must accept when a clumsy oaf of a geek thinks that what they want is sex. They must follow through or be shamed for their lack of "liberation."
But it's okay because afterwards when he doesn't call, because to HIM he gave you what you wanted, then you can accuse him of rape.
The truth is, particularly in their approach to sex males and females are very different. And maybe it's a just so story, or the fact that spreading with a wide dispersion tip means a man is more likely to leave descendants while taking her love to town means a woman is less likely to rear her children.
Was the old normal (and for people here that would be probably two generations before me) unfair to some individuals and oppressive. Oh, hell, yes, with bells on. I experienced it.
Is the new normal unfair and oppressive? Well, you got me there. Oppressive yes, but at a level where people are afraid of saying they're not free.
But mostly the new normal is crazy. Men and women are being told they must act in this new way, which frankly is mostly bad for women and very bad for children. (Are we sure this isn't a plot by an alien species?)
It comes from bad crazy of thinking humans are infinitely moldable. This is the tenet at the heart of Marxism. If humans aren't infinitely moldable, then the New Soviet Man will never emerge, and all the killing will have been in vain.
But humans aren't infinitely moldable. Which is why no Soviet Man ever emerged from all the crazy. Which is why what 100 years of social engineering is producing is the streets of Paris burning. And it's a fire I'm afraid will spread. Which is why this is entirely crazy.
I don't hanker for the days I had to buy my science fiction (or history) books like people by porn, by stealth and looking embarrassed, or for the days when reading something other than a craft mag in the train was looked at askance.
And no, I don't think men who don't want to engage in pissing contests (sometimes literal) should be forced to.
I always think more tolerance for outliers is a good thing. (I would, wouldn't I? Being one.)
BUT turning society upside down and thinking making the new conformity hinge completely on a rejection of ALL of the old conformity, as though turning something upside down made it better, instead of the bad, just upside down is insane.
Societies don't long survive by being insane.
For one, whatever the stupid song says, we're not the world. Most of the world still adheres to the old standards. No, older than that. Yes, the ones where masculinity is indeed toxic and beating your wife on a Saturday night is just a little pleasure a man shouldn't be denied. The barbarians are always at the gate. Craziness doesn't make us better at defending ourselves.
But beyond that, deep set brain stuff that's older than dinos will have its day. And after the revolt and the burning I'm afraid we'll be closer to the barbarians.
That's not what I want. I'm an outlier. I prefer a society that tolerates outliers.
Will there be one left, after the insanity burns out?
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210 thoughts on "All Or Nothing"
Paul (Drak Bibliophile) Howard says:
Question, would you say that the feminists are practicing "toxic femininity"? 😈
accordingtohoyt says:
Very much so. It's also known as "Crab Bucket"
thephantom182 says:
Young Relative has a oversized crab-arm from drawing, does that count?
Foxfier says:
Not just that, but they're taking the worst traits of the other sex– and somehow a man being like a nasty woman is way worse, just as a woman being like a violent, irrational man is way worse. Maybe because the damage isn't generally expected…..
Non-conformity is the new conformity. You have to "rebel" against "The Man" but only in the approved ways. Dorky sideshave haircuts, Doc Martins, black jeans with rips.
That's why all those Frenchmen in the yellow safety vests demonstrating against The Man are racist/bigot/homophobe/Deniers. They're rebelling wrong.
This is all the "you stepped on the naughty tile, now we have to punish you" bullshit. In the old days they used to label the tile "WARNING!!! Do not step here, or bad shit will happen to you!!!"
In this new, Enlightened era, they peeled the warning label off so they can pretend they are all welcoming and tolerant and stuff. But they're not.
Hence my quest to find that tile and stand right on that sumbitch, both feet, both middle fingers extended. Come and get me, assholes.
Yes, I have some resentment issues. No, I'm not going to work on them. Everybody else can fucking well go around me at a safe distance while I stomp on the naughty tile with my steel-toed dirt kickers.
I'll stand with you.
Hell yes. But we might have to get a bigger tile…
~:D
Mike Houst says:
If you pick Sarah up and carry her in your arms, you can stand on the single tile.
But her significant other might have something to say about that.
a) Dan wouldn't be happy. b) Phantom would break something. I still have 50 lbs to lose
I used to be able to pick up Babe the blue ox, but then I took an arrow to the knee…
Well, I used to be smaller than babe the blue ox…
Amsel, Matthew says:
And now you're just a babe?
Oh, Lord, I wish.
aacid14 says:
So, blue
Draven says:
I'll stand behind y'all and slightly to the side, helping plan the defenses.
It's not even just pretending they are so tolerating but because it begets power to them. They get to define good and evil and use it. And a lot of it is based on vendettas and revenge imo.
Maybe it's because I'm retired, but even when they could have an effect on me (they no longer can) I tended and still tend to ignore the cultural mavens and do whatever the hell pleases me and seems right. If they don't like it, they can screech all they want. It only works if I care what they think, and I just don't.
Yes. We call it "our give a is damn broken." or "our give a damn went on permanent vacation." Yes, that is what happened.
"I'm fresh out of F's to give."
"I gave an F at the office."
"I'd give a F, but I gave my last one when Obama got elected."
And on that day, not a single F was given.
wolfwalker says:
I LIKE THAT!
The Other Sean says:
How about "My give a darn was furloughed in the shutdown"?
TXRed says:
Ooooh, I like that one.
herbn says:
Need to get a tee shirt with that.
You'd have to modify it to "My give a darn was furloughed forever in the shutdown" otherwise there is a hint it might come back …
sam57l0 says:
I shot mine, cut it up, and ate it. After cooking it, of course! Raw…is icky. Added lots of garlic.
suburbanbanshee says:
The new thing for young men is really good Elvis haircuts. Very handsome and manly, even if they are standing it up with manly shiny mousse.
I've read so many fairy-tale retellings where the heroine is Not Your Typical Fairy-Tale Princess that I think that The Princess Seeks Her Fortune is just about unique in having an actual typical fairy-tale princess.
"Not Your Typical Fairy-Tale Princess" these days is the one that wears nice robes and does what her father says, because he's the King. Typical princess is a dude in a dress, figuratively or sometimes literally.
I've been having some fun with that. My MC is anime-character powerful, he can do anything. But his girlfriend is a normal, quick tempered red head. She's very angry about being protected all the time, thinks she should be out kicking zombie ass with the boyfriend and the robots. Gives him what-for about it all the time.
And when it hits the fan, she lets everybody keep her safe even though it pisses her off. Because that's -her- job, and she's keeping up with the program. So, there's a thread of "Caveman Protect Cavegirl" running through the series, which gives opportunities for some fun scenes.
The notion of making snowflake heads explode is also pretty juicy. Imagine the nerve of me, portraying a female character who isn't Laura Croft. ~:D
Now, now, many a fairy-tale princess ran away from home because of her father's trying to get her to do something
A "proper" fairy tale princess has her father wrapped around her little finger because she's perfectly adorable. She does exactly what he says, because he says exactly what she wants. Or its necessary, and because she's the princess, she does it.
Because men think of punching their enemy in the face. A fairy tale princess gets the enemy to punch himself in the face.
Read more fairy tales.
A close female friend tells the story of her first advanced math class in college. The professor began the course by announcing to the entire class that all the girls and half the men would fail his class. This was back in the early 1970s so something the prof could get away with at the time.
She sat quietly until end of class then went straight to admin and did a drop add to take the course under a different instructor.
By the way, she graduated with a degree in mathematics and became a high school math teacher and eventually added on several advanced degrees to the original BS.
My wife followed a somewhat similar path as a high school math teacher, but when her remedial math program was so successful that the administration no longer saw a need for it and laid her off she went back for her engineering masters and found employment in the space program.
A teacher An instructor like that is likely to make sure his prophecy succeeds, or is just so bad at his job that it happens anyways.
TRX says:
The one I had seemed mostly to use his class as victims for his "pay me for special tutoring and you might pass" scam.
William O. B'Livion says:
Did special tutoring involve acts that a former president insists aren't sex?
No, he only wanted money. Cash, no checks.
I told him he was trying to charge extra for something I'd already paid for and dropped the class.
The college was profoundly uninterested when I tried to make a complaint.
tcbobg says:
There's also the 'Professor X's class requires a textbook at (ungodly price) which just happens to be written by (oh, look, isn't that coincidental) Professor X'.
CeliaHayes says:
And which gets "updated" every year or so, and the professor demands the newest edition — and the damned book is only available in print, so no luck in getting a used copy at a markdown, or getting it as an ebook.
This kind of crap really put the Daughter Unit off pursuing a college degree – the iniquitous cost of required textbooks.
"Because society at large isn't about you, it's about working."
Seems to me the baying Progressives, radical feminists, non-standard sexuality crowd are the monkey wrenches in society. One or two are useful, but when all of them are monkey wrenches, or even a significant percentage are, society breaks down and fails to be able to support the group.
As you say, "Societies don't long survive by being insane."
Stuart the Viking says:
The insane ones are such a small percentage of society, but they are LOUD.
So maybe it's more like "Societies don't long survive listening to the insane members of society!"
Embracing and spreading the insanity. Leftists may not reproduce sexually but they are adept at scavenging young and breaking them
One or two can be useful as negative example.
At least I'd like to try that as an experiment.
I was going to say that a few serve to bring a different point of view to most discussions, brainstorming groups, and entertainment. Kind of like chili pepper; a little bit adds seasoning and flavor, too much makes it inedible.
RES says:
"I hear people talking about how they were discouraged from math . .. "
Some people, people with true grit, take such discouragement as incentive to plow on, taking an "Oh yeah? I'll show you!" attitude.
So terribly sorry you were such a gormless git that you listened to other people in spite of what your heart told you* — that probably means you lacked the capacity to plow on through when the learning got tough. If you were so easily discouraged it would probably be best for you to curl up and die, and thus reduce your drain on Gaia's scarce resources.
*I understand that "listening to your heart" is a thing that Liberals particularly prize.
cspschofield says:
Liberals/Progressives say you should listen to your heart, but they always mean "You shouldlisten to ME."
Rat bastards.
Orvan Taurus says:
Can't listen to them, what with that stethoscope in your ears.
Forestry Degree '79, Computer Science Degree '89.
Didn't pave the way on the Forestry Degree, not by a long shot. But only maybe a handful of other female students in my class, maybe a couple dozen in the 4.5 years it took to get my degree.
Ditto on the Computer Programming '85, & Computer Science, degrees. Percentages were higher, but didn't really pay attention. Was interesting the guys didn't pay any attention to my pregnancy the last year. Other women sure did. It was "how could you?"
"It was "how could you?""
I'm convinced that women in the workplace are largely insane harpies, who live only to bring misery to others. Exceptions do exist, maybe 10%. They'd be the ones who get all the work done.
David Foster says:
"largely insane harpies"…I've heard that view often of late, but it doesn't fit my experience: I've observed a lot of women…sales reps & managers, programmers & systems designers, even lawyers and the occasional HR person…making very positive contributions to the organization. Much more than 10%.
"…even lawyers and the occasional HR person…"
You are testing my suspension of disbelief, sir. ~:D
I think he's dealing with Noisy Twit syndrome— you NOTICE the nutjobs more.
In 45 years in the worlkplace, I've never seen a female auto mechanic, machinist, programmer, or sysadmin.
Lots of secretaries, HR people (which I don't consider "work"), "team leaders" and management of various sorts, but zero women down at the "and now we get things done" coal face.
Anecdotes from others indicate this is not always the case, but it's 100% of the only experience I have on the subject.
Never in the "management" arena. Always salaried. Secretaries (admin assistance) scare me.
Definitely on the production side of programming & support. Multiple layers of support between client & programmer, software design, … isn't that a myth? Even have been responsible for hardware/IT & design/programming/support, early in my career. Can do the former, responsible for it at home, but was glad to be able to drop it professionally.
Definitely female. Was the only female working for the first company I worked at, after Forestry degree. And only female at the last company before I retired as a programmer. But the other programming tech jobs, there were other female productive software engineers, both in application software (my niche) & assembly level OS software. Not the majority, small percentage, even for a small department, but we were there.
Yes. More than once dealt with those who thought I was a myth.
Caller: "Have a question about (I was the primary, probably only programmer working on)"
Me: "How can I help you?"
Caller: sigh. Repeat above.
Me: double sigh. Puts phone on speaker. "Hey, (guy), would you come here for a minute." back to phone "This is 'guy'."
Guy: "How can I help you?"
Caller: Repeat of above.
Guy: "Just a minute. I will get Her."
Me: "What is your question?"
Granted. Last three months or so I gleefully handed off the caller to whomever (only one software product & we were all experts on most all of it) because … oh yea, for reasons, my give a darn/damn up & disappeared.
It'll do that when your safety is compromised & your suggested resolution is rejected, but someone else same compromise was accepted, but you haven't given notice yet … what was the boss going to do for not insisting on being the one to answer a question just because I answered the darn phone … fire me?
Gospace says:
I've seen 2 female boiler operators. Both lasted only a few years. Most men once in the job retire at it. Or as the lady in HR asked me: "What is it with you boiler operators? We see you when you're hired. The next time we see you you're retiring. We never see you in between." Because we're working by ourselves out in the boiler house, away from all the drama… Some people in the workplace aren't even aware we exist. We like it that way.
mrsizer says:
There are still boilers? Steam or just hot water heat?
> I've never seen a female auto mechanic, machinist, programmer, or sysadmin.
I haven't seen a female auto mechanic since I left the Marine Corps in the 80s, and she…she's probably "transitioning" now.
I don't know many machinists, so I can't say.
I HAVE met a lot of female programmers and Sysadmins. Most of the sysadmins I've met haven't been that good, but the same is true of the male ones. I'd say females are about twice as likely to suck at it.
I've been working with a lot of female SQL programmers recently, and they're pretty good.
ashkalar says:
I am female, and I spent 22 years as a computer programmer and systems analyst. For seven of those years I WAS the sysadmin for the computer that served the Underwriting department of a large insurance co. I was also the lead programmer, the database administrator, the tech support, and the one who stayed till midnite twice a month to run the system backups. And in late 1997 I was the one who submitted documentation to the PTB explaining that they really needed to get an entire new Underwriting system in place before 1/1/2000 because the computer OS was not designed to handle dates higher than 12/31/99. Truth. (Yes, they listened, and they heeded. That is why Y2K was not a disaster for us.)
It was a challenging job, it paid well at the time, and I was damned good at it. But I never, ever, considered it as a career, and when I was riffed in 2002 I walked away without regret and with a great deal of relief.
I took a programming course in the US, and had I stayed here, would probably have gone into programming. Hell, because I transpose digits, but also easy because of the way the mind works. I just had to PROOFREAD a lot. I do that for writing too.
Sarah, you are much more valuable as a writer than you would ever have been as a programmer. Out of all those years of analysis, design, programming, testing, and implementation work (yes, I did it all) I don't think there is a single line of code I produced for my employers still running on any computer anywhere.
Good programming is creative work, but I have NOTHING to show for all those years. YOU have dozens of books, more dozens of short stories, and some (many??) of those will outlive you and still be read and appreciated in the future. Plus there is the impact of your blog and other writings.
For myself, now I turn wood into things that others can use, and make jewelry that others can wear and enjoy. It doesn't pay much, but hopefully a few of those pieces will still bring pleasure to others in years to come. Granted, a rutabaga weedpot is not very useful, but it was fun to turn and perhaps as an avatar it brings a smile or two?
You probably could have been a decent programmer, but I for one am very glad you choose writing instead. 😉
"Good programming is creative work, but I have NOTHING to show for all those years."
Yes. Definitely Yes. Everything from IP that was taken by Roseburg & Thompson has been so rewritten if not scrapped & rewritten that my name (or if you will, initials) are 100% missing, contribution 100% gone. I know the system concepts are still in practice; including more than one package I started from scratch & fully implemented. I'd be shocked if not true.
Know that the software written & maintained for 6 years at Percon/PSC, is 100% shelved by Data Logic (final landing spot for that section of the pieced out company).
Last software I worked on. Well, they are still feeling the effects of my 12 years there. But it is a collaborative effort. Given they were just purchased & strongly looking like coding is headed off shore for major rewrite, that will be gone in a year or two, maybe. Concept, software name, will be around, but any code I wrote, gone, zip. At least I only have 12 years of code disappearing; remaining co workers will have 17 to 25, or more, disappearing.
35 years of code. Soon, there will be nothing I can point to & say "I helped with that."
Agree. Sarah, you have a lot of work you can point to and state "That is mine."
It has always been that way.
"The last woe, and sometimes the last straw, is that the product over which one has labored so long appears to be obsolete on (or before) completion. Already colleagues and competitors are in hot pursuit of new and better ideas. Already the displacement of one's thought-child is not only conceived, but scheduled.
This always seems worse than it really is. The new and better product is generally not available when one completes his own; it is only talked about. It too will require months of development. The real tiger is never a match for the paper one, unless actual use is wanted. Then the virtues of reality have a satisfaction all their own."
Brooks, The Mythical Man Month, 1961,
(I try and re-read this book at least once a year; it's always interesting how topical it remains.)
One of the finest helicopter mechanics I ever worked with was a tiny slip of a woman. She could crawl into the hellhole of a Huey helicopter – with the cargo hook *installed*. Last I heard, she got hired by Boeing.
"making very positive contributions to the organization. "
And if they weren't, would you dare tell them? Would your bosses ever agree? Or would they tell you to be quiet lest she start screaming "hostile environment" or worse?
It doesn't take very many of those to teach you your place today.
Did you tell them how, illustrating just how with hand gestures?
Uh, no. Not exactly. Just said "after 10 years of lots & lots of practice the good lord said we were due a little one & who were we to judge his decision?"
Hey. Got a snicker out of a few ease droppers, both genders. The one making the comment. Hell, nothing was going to satisfy her.
FeatherBlade says:
"Well, when a man and a woman love each other very much…"
Mythilt says:
My mother was pregnant with me when she was getting her engineering degree in '71. Only woman in the class, on the day of the physics final the professor entered the room pretending to read a book on childbirth. (I was due soon after said final.)
A fun side note from this….When I took my engineering physics class in college, I had the fun of telling that professor when I took his class that A) I was going to make him feel old, and B) I took his class before, but he'd not recognize me. 😉 He remembered my mother, btw.
As for 'How could you?', my mothers response would probably have left the woman wondering what hit her…my mother does not suffer idiots well.
The only time being a girl was a problem as a pilot was 1) the guy who would not hire anyone who weighed less than 150 pounds and stood less than 5'4, because he would not allow anyone to use a seat cushion in his planes [supposedly the tourists didn't like it.] and 2) when I lacked the physical strength and size to handle certain pieces of equipment. Oh, and being told I'd be flying into airstrips in Mexico on my own in one of the most sought-after-by-drug-runners types of aircraft. Thanks, but no thanks, I like being alive.
I did encounter some people who refused to hire women, although they didn't phrase it that bluntly. Once I heard the back-story, I understood their reasoning although I disagreed. (I wanted to track down that [rude epithet] and beat her senseless with a cluebat for ruining things for the rest of us.)
Yes. Ran into that one spring. Well was temp summer work. But the department boss called said so & so wanted to move from another department. Lets just say so & so's antics preceded her, verifiable. Old department was trying to foster off on another department to prevent the paperwork & head off the headache of an investigation sure to follow for firing a female. My response? Your call. I'm not going to be the only one paired up with her, just because I'm the only female on the crew. The department took a pass. She was fired. Yep. Was an investigation.
Heard about it after hired. But apparently a female called to ask for a job & was told "don't hire females for that position" … 1979 … (can we say "oh s$$$?"). Then hubby interviewed for the company. When asked which area he'd prefer, he told them same area I had a summer job already lined up. Their response? Oh. Is she a forester too? Yes, graduation, this term. Would she apply? Obviously.
Other than that the only overt comment I heard was my last hire. Boss was strongly leaning toward hiring me, but with an all male contingent, wasn't sure how I'd fit in. My response was "not any different than the past jobs." Got hired.
Doesn't hurt that I'm the type to accept any job related challenges & figure out how, ignore the rest (well until a suicidal/homicidal situation came up, then, okay, not so much). You know the type of person presented with a pile of horse manure will start digging for the horse (old joke about optimist).
The only conflict I had as a programmer with anyone in a tech company was with, wait for it, …., marketing.
Should have re-read before posting: s/b "only OTHER female on the crew", although given who it was, the other stands, kind of, too.
All the new victorians have done is tear at societal fabric. At the same time victimhood groups grew, association with other groups or the ability of groups to continue to maintain their identity went away. Ace has a post up on the google "family friendly" kerfluffle. It's all crybullying that because family is used in a traditional way it's homophobic and evil because it doesn't include single people and their pets and polyamorous groupings explicitly.
The current, typical family is a single mom and kids, maybe a married couple and kids. So you're not the typical one and aren't catered to. Welcome to life.
One parent of each sex is still the norm, although about 30% are single parent now.
(More first-kid-is-out-of-wedlock births, now.)
Wasn't completely certain if had been overtaken or not. Plus I include divorce in that single parent category in too many cases. Even worse when kids are bartering chip
My stats include those, too.
That said, divorce– especially in couples young enough to have minor children– is down and dropping.
Most, as I understand it, because they don't get married to begin with.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if we were to change the law such that *pregnancy* triggered legal marriage.
That's the theory, but notably I have yet to see someone offer it with stats.
Sounds like a decent common-law trigger to me.
In the past, documented in my family tree research, a whole lot of first kids were premature.
Why do so many poly people have to be so obnoxious about it.
It is not the norm. Deal. It isn't like people are being hunted down.
Most poly people are irritating and just want to be swingers without admitting it. I am not sure why because except in terms of cleaning equipment swingers have better manners.
Are they like vegans in terms of obnoxiousness?
Not quite because they don't advertise as much.
If anything, a lot of them act as though they are even more morally superior. They have a variant of something I saw in early days in the s&m scene: because they are poly they trust and communicate more (the s&m world people were focused just on trust).
It isn't that they trust and communicate more. It is the baseline for a successful D/s or poly relationship is well above the norm. So yes, the median for successful people is higher.
But the median for the group overall is the same and there is just a lot more wreckage (especially in the poly world) in the typical person's wake.
Blond_Engineer says:
What bothers me most is that the poly people I've run into always announce it with a subtext (that isn't that sub) indicating that your preference is of no consequence and you owe them sex.
Less guilt since "approved cheating" and more transgression against normal mores.
Find a lot of the ones that flaunt lifestyle as identity run that way.
Swingers are "approved cheating" and generally more fun to be around.
Despite technically being poly I actively avoid most poly circles.
Guess the phrase I was looking for was traditional cheating. It's something different than what daddy did with the secretary and mommy with milkman (or vice versa).
Back when, I never saw a poly group make it more than a few months before falling apart. Usually one member would have a meltdown spectacular enough to take down the whole group, who would then publicly hate on each other until they hooked up with someone else.
I admit it has been long enough ago that attitude has probably shifted quite a bit.
Sounds exhausting. I have enough trouble with one at a time. Trying to keep track of multiple sets of requirements and pet hates? Crazy town!
Not really, no.
BobtheRegisterredFool says:
Yeah, sure we are going to have more 'toxic' males.
But there are other patterns that will be followed, beyond simply mirroring the feminists.
Forex, if collective rights and happiness are what is important, it does appear like men and women might be happier in a patriarchy.
As for myself, 'sticking it in crazy' seems a short route to more misery than I want to deal with, and feminists very much appear to be that sort of crazy. Maybe I have a much lower appetite for dealing with additional crazy than most people. As far as I can tell, the only lasting happiness from sex involves the establishment of long-term healthy family relationships. The sexbots-would-make-women-obselete feminists are wholly misunderstanding the actual benefits a man might gain from sex with a woman.
The status quo is partly an artifact of patterns established in media. There are much healthier patterns well established in practice than are seen in media. Uncertainty in current politics probably means uncertainty in future media. Yeah, a reversion to barbarism is possible. I suspect that some of what you anticipate is weighted excessively by feminist fearmongering. Akin to models weighted excessively by fearmongering about homosexual extermination. (The constituency for killing all the homosexuals is not up for the job, and probably the limits on its capacity for growth will keep it that way.) I think this may be a 'Be not afraid, we win, they lose, etc… ' situation.
No. It's weighted by a knowledge of the rest of the world.
There is probably more likelihood of return to barbarity than return of chivalry or the cleavers. You have a not inconsequential portion of a generation learning not to marry, that marriage is too risky, or being led down the path of alternate sexuality because trendy. Using revenge theory, men will want to go hard rather than find the middle in the fear that the pendulum will simply swing back against him.
Actually, an overt return to chivalry may be exactly what we need to implement.
When everyone knows the rules, and plays by them, those ones who don't are obviously in the wrong, and have no basis for complaining. 90% of the problems today exist because they pulled the rug out from under society and nobody knows what they "should" be doing anymore.
I'm not saying it isn't the desireable solution, or at least one of them. I just don't know if the pendulum swing will stop at bilateral responsibility or if it will go to an actual patriarchical society in response to current one
scott2harrison says:
It will go full on patriarchy with women treated as minor children because we have been taught that first: women cannot be trusted, and second: society cannot be trusted to rein in out-of-control women. Thus the only solution is to be certain that women never never never get power over other people again.
Pretty much where I'm concerned will go. And once it starts it'll be fast. Plus we seem to be importing two cultures that revolve around machismo and don't have the hangups of ward cleaver born in Milwaukee.
Who will be hurt the most? Those who haven't made a fuss. Who believe in equality for all. The right to not only succeed, but the right to fail, pick ourselves up, dust off, & try again, or redirect.
Plus you have all the girls being hammered that they are helpless because of the Patriarchy and are perpetual victims. And that they are unstoppable because of Grrrrrrrl Power!!!! At some point, someone who says, "No, you really are helpless, and I will take care of you in exchange for you doing this and that, and not doing this" will come as a mental relief. (Which might explain all the women converting to Islam – it has clear definitions and roles, even if those are not really healthy.)
Mike M. says:
Maybe. I can see a middle ground, where women's suffrage is banned (and women not liable to conscription or capital punishment) on the grounds that they are demonstrably not mature enough for the full powers of a citizen. But they are not considered minor children who MUST be under male guardianship at all times.
Alpheus says:
If women's suffrage is banned, then it will be done in part with the support of women. It will undoubtedly take a whole lot of crazy to get to that point; however, Society seems to be pushing us to a whole lot of crazy….
Pendulum may be the wrong model.
It somewhat fits the dynamic stability of tension between two opposing forces, where the success of one gradually empowers the opposition with its successes. My vague recollection is that pendulums can be approximated as linear for small deflections. (I'm not sure that's right, perhaps it is moderate deflections?)
My intuition is that this cycle we are going to hit a number of nonlinear factors, which will change things beyond my ability to predict. The advantage that the left has had moving things to this point has been in the role model advantage provided by Hollywood and the school system. A backlash will have substantially weaken this influence, much more than has already significantly occurred. Conservative Christian homeschooling families with more than two children, and liberal DINKs, mean that older norms have an advantage when it comes to personal role models. I think denominational factional rivalries will prevent a ban on birth control pills, and that access to birth control pills will limit the counterforces that will develop as the state changes from where it is now, to wherever it ends up going.
But these estimates are heavily skewed by changes in my personal outlook. Not changes in what actually happens in my life, changes in thinking. Possibly healthier thinking. I would note that we have a lot of experience here with my forecasts being wrong, and with my being a bad model to predict most of humanity from.
The biggest advantage Progressives had was the reluctance of everyone else to label them Evil (with a capital E). It is possible that Kipling was right again:
"Whatsoever, for any cause,
Seeketh to take or give
Power above or beyond the Laws,
Suffer it not to live!
Holy State or Holy King–
Or Holy People's Will–
Have no truck with the senseless thing.
Order the guns and kill!"
AesopFan says:
"The biggest advantage Progressives had was the reluctance of everyone else to label them Evil "
Neo-neocon (aka The New Neo) has a post up today that exemplifies your point.
Not only tolerating, but embracing Evil only gets you more of the same.
https://www.thenewneo.com/2019/01/17/1969-ucla-and-the-high-potential-program-and-cornell/
Just to clarify: the evil was NOT in the sincere desire to bring more black Americans into the universities, but in doing it by insane means, and then allowing the activists to destroy the universities (still in process, but the end cannot be far away).
Interesting that in the somehow linked retrospective article on the Cornell incident written by Dr. Sowell upon the 30th anniversary thereof he stated that he hoped that by the 50th (which occurs this year) the PC culture would have diminished to the point where a dispassionate analysis of the events would be possible. I'm afraid he may be disappointed . . .
Considering some of the fledermaus feces crazy things Pope Francis has said, I'd have to agree with Kipling.
Geoff Withnell says:
This cycle will be different, because some factors pushing on the pendulum have shifted. When protection of the family, particularly mothers and children has to be based on muscle power, either patriarchy or barbarism is almost inevitable. Now that the social change Sam Colt started is getting less expensive, other solutions are possible. I loved the scene in "Blind Side" when "gentile" upper crust Southern mama faces down homeboys in the hood, because she has a pistol in her purse, and both knows how to and is unafraid to use it.
It is indeed the case that pendulum swings can be linear if kept within about 30 degrees of swinging back and forth. But if you get beyond 15 degrees either way, pendulum swinging begins to be non-linear.
I remember this well. I was frustrated with my differential equations class, and I encountered a problem where one of the factors was a sin(x). "Yes!" I excitedly thought. "At last! Something more than just ordinary linear differential equations!" Alas, no: they explained that so long as they keep the range within certain bounds, y = sin(x) is closely approximated by y = x, and thus reduced the problem to a boring ordinary differential equation.
I was so frustrated that I went to my old calculus book, found a chapter about differential equations, and actually solved the *original* system using infinite series…..
Differential Equations made me question my desire to get a degree in math. Looking back, I realize it was because the class wasn't being taught properly. (Why just focus on ordinary differential equations?!? I yearned to go beyond ordinary differential equations!)
Later, they merged the class with linear algebra, because ordinary differential equations are a good example of a linear system. For crying out loud! There's more to differential equations than linear systems! And there's more to linear algebra than matrices!
I'd settle for a return to the Code Duello. Then at least people wouldn't be running around saying a bunch of shit they can't back up.
I've maintained that the Code is the foundation of civilized society for a long time.
If you'll notice, Code Duello started dying as pistols got *WAY* more accurate at 20 yards.
I don't think this is a coincidence.
Code Duello started dying, I think, as son as pistols replaced swords as the weapon of choice for duels. Using a sword requires skill, and for most people there was always a chance the other was more skilled than you were. Guns are just point-and-shoot.
"90% of the problems today exist because they pulled the rug out from under society and nobody knows what they "should" be doing anymore."
Someone in an aviation magazine observed that: "If you do anything with your airplane that is not consistent with the Pilot's Operating Handbook, then you are a test pilot."
In a society, the POH is the aggregate of laws, rules, customs, and implicit expectations.
Some people can thrive as "test pilots", many cannot.
I think it is clear that our societal POH needed revision as a result of technology change and other factors; the problem is that too many people wanted to throw out the old one completely and, in some cases, write a new one (intended for universal implementation) despite their lack of either theoretical understanding or practical experience.
Pam Uphoff says:
I'm afraid I see the current social experiment turning out to look a lot like inner city gangs. A bunch of poorly socialized, unmarried men, and a loose association of women who either abort their babies, or use them to get money from Uncle Sam, and do a piss poor job of socializing them.
I am a poorly socialized unmarried man. Whatever hope I may personally have is going to spill over some onto the entire class.
There's some indication that something of the sort may already be happening in China.
"Eh, Comrade, what is this 'incel' thing anyway?"
"It's when we've bred more than one generation angry young men with not enough women."
"Oh. Okay. They'll throw their excess testosterone into supporting the Permanent Revolution, then!"
"Sure. And that's why my family all have passports and our assets are overseas…"
Shadrach Anki says:
Question: what is the cross-stitch piece in the picture at the top of the article? It is very pretty.
Zsuzsa says:
Yet another way in which I'm a defective woman. Not only do I not conform, I have an almost pathological fear of trying to conform. Blame this one on high school, where being a non-conformist was easier than being an almost-conformist. The girl who liked last month's boy band when everyone had moved on to this month's boy band was a subject of derision and mockery. The girl who only liked 60s folk rock, on the other hand, was obviously playing by such different rules that there was no point in making fun of her. She was an outcast, but at least she was left alone. As George RR Martin put it, "Better to laugh at the game than to play it and lose."
"Yet another way in which I'm a defective woman. Not only do I not conform, I have an almost pathological fear of trying to conform."
That's not a defect. That's a square peg. You live in a world of round pegs. Everybody's trying to round you off, pound you into a round hole. I'm familiar. My head is very shiny, and I have a collection of broken hammers. I'm "work hardened" as they say. Adamantine from all the forging.
The -truth- of the matter is that there are plenty of applications that require a square peg. Like computer programmer. The round Normie ones simply won't do.
They pretend that round is the only way, and they HATE you when you fill that square hole so perfectly, but really they need you to stay square. They just won't admit it.
But, with age comes Revenge. ~:D All that shit you were right about, and they screamed at you that you were crazy, and you did it your way while you flipped them off? You were right. And it worked. Meanwhile they did it the Accepted Proper Way… and their lives suck.
And at night, when the breeze drops and the air is still, off in the distance you can faintly hear the screeching:
"Damn you, square pegs! Damn you and your Squareness!!!!" [sound of Normie head exploding.]
Yup. Average people do average things. Excellence demands being exceptional.
I wish it was that easy. But today, the world of computer programming is run by triangular pegs, who don't tolerate square pegs any better than the round pegs from whom they fled so long ago. They invent new languages and tools at the drop of a hat, and woe unto you if you aren't good with every new tool the day it comes out, if not sooner. It's the geek equivalent of muscle cars: whole new programming languages and concepts are being invented not because they're necessary or useful but simply because the author wanted to show off his/her/its superiority.
When you're someone who would prefer to pick one toolkit and stay with it, and you have a strange penchant for selecting tools that are inevitably completely abandoned by everybody else just as you were getting good with them …. well, programming as a career has not been kind to me.
I'm not a programmer at all. My squareness doesn't run in that direction.
House painting is a square-peg occupation, as it turns out. Lots of ways to make a buck out there without trying to cram yourself in to the round hole universe.
But speaking of triangular pegs:
https://dailycaller.com/2019/01/16/google-family-triggered-meltdown/
"Family" is now a new no-no word. Love it! ~:D
How quickly times change! The 1979 World Series Champion Pittsburgh Pirates are now a hate group …
and Oprah is a Hatey-McHate hatemonger.
Loved this bit:
Use the word "family" to mean a loving assemblage of people who may or may not live together and may or may not include people of any particular age.
Sounds like they're trying to make the word "family" as meaningless as the words "men" and "women."
As a civilization, I think we're doomed.
I think the civilization will live. Google though, they're screwed.
Right? If you're going to invent a new language, at least make it novel. After 25 of them, I say I'm experienced at whatever language de jur. Even if I've never heard of it, I'll learn it over a weekend.
Now if only I could forget Perl…
"I wish it was that easy. But today, the world of computer programming is run by triangular pegs, who don't tolerate square pegs any better than the round pegs from whom they fled so long ago. They invent new languages and tools at the drop of a hat, and woe unto you if you aren't good with every new tool the day it comes out, if not sooner."
Tell me about it. Made a living programming. But from what I can tell, I was lucky. Over 35 years I've used 15 different language tools, AND never been used "current" technology. That I (or any competent programmer) can be conversant & programming in that language in any reasonable tool within weeks, if not days, means nothing to the gate keepers. Heck, it'll take longer to learn the nuances of most systems than it would learn the tool it is written in; if it is at all complicated, & trust me, most businesses ones aren't, no matter how limited or non-existent the documentation is, regardless of what the gate keeper dictates.
One of the reasons I don't envy my ex coworkers given their emerging situation. At least the ones that have to keep working when things go south. Their best bet is to ride it until they get riffed out, researching what they can to figure out what is the most likely best & greatest. Even then it'll be a throw of the dice. Couple of the newer younger guys might be able to use it as a launch to a better position. But the over 40 crowd … been there done that.
"That I (or any competent programmer) can be conversant & programming in that language in any reasonable tool within weeks, if not days, means nothing to the gate keepers. "
When I started in programming, I thought the same. Programming is programming; the concepts are the same, only the syntax changes from language to language. But over the last few years, I've concluded that today's language-developers are going to enormous lengths to make sure this isn't true anymore. I firmly believe it's become the geek equivalent of muscle cars: the harder your new language/tool/framework is to learn, the more "geek points" you get. The learning curve on the newest Javascript frameworks isn't just steep, it's concave. To do anything useful in Angular 7, for example, you first have to master the Web document model, CSS, Javascript, Typescript, and node.js. All of which are viciously object-oriented: everything is hidden by multiple layers of abstraction, and trying to trace Angular code is like trying to find the end of a Mobius strip.
I'm seriously considering changing careers… but what else can a middle-aged white-collar worker with no physical skills and no people skills do?
I stalled out at essentially 2002 technology. Never mastered web forms, although next to last company was headed that way before bankruptcy riffed me.
I've seen Java, at least the 1996 version, but the rest of it might as well be "Greek". Don't know if the layers started with Microsoft or not. Just know that digging through C++ libraries to get to the layer I needed for double byte text, took me 6 weeks, but 3 days to build & test what I wanted. MS C++ with all the macros & layered objects drove me nuts. Preferred working with the Active C++ Library. Understand objects, but hate the layering upon layer.
I may have only been retired for the last 3 years, but the technology I've been working with was old in 2004 when I started there.
I repeat. I don't envy the guys that are still with the company. The three new guys, who more recently are out of school & likely have worked with newer stuff, even if not professionally. Two (I think) barely met them when I dropped in for a visit, are young enough to not get the run around (or you are "too experienced" routine). Third, second career already, so will get some run around (bluntly – age). The rest. They've been on this technology longer than I was, & don't have the more rounded systems experience. Plus, again, to be blunt, the "age" bit is going to bite them.
??? Why to you think I was glad my son had zero interest in going into Computer Science?
He got his Chemistry Bachelors of Science. Don't regret paying for the degree. He builds cabinets at a local company. Been a line supervisor now for about 6 months. Normally the company hires their supervisors from outside, don't promote from the line. Between his experience with the company, a degree, & Eagle, he was one of the few they have. Has no interest on trying for management. He said they don't get paid a whole lot better & their hours are longer, they don't get overtime; translation, per hour rate is less than he gets now.
reading intellectual books with lots of sex (like putting an urn in a picture makes it art, putting Marxism in a book makes the sex okay)
No, putting Marxism in a book makes the sex uninteresting because the Marxism makes it unreadable.
It even makes passing it around with the good parts marked boring.
Yes, but that's because you're sane.
I'm torn between saying, "No one has ever said that to me" and "You take that back". 🙂
It's the Sanity Privilege! We must stamp it out to ensure equality for all!
I just realized this is the deference between fascists and communists: sex.
I know lots of people in the s&m world with uniform fetishes. Some are into Nazi uniforms (including one of the most left wing women I know) . I don't know of anyone into Soviet, PRC, or any other communist uniforms.
Nazis, and the police, and even the outlaw biker fetishes are symbols of power. "We can do what we want to you, and there's damnall you can do about it."
I think it's the power that's the fetish, not specfically the uniform.
Almost all of the scene types I met IRL were hard-left. Maybe they recognized that the Commissars never had any personal power, just that of the pack.
But if it is about the power, why Nazis but not Red Guards?
And, yes, the scene is very left wing to the point outside of some leather spaces I cannot go out without being insulted routinely by people discussing how evil anyone to the right of Bernie Sanders (because, clearly, no one to the right of Sanders could possibly be there).
Hugo Boss vs Mao suits. 'nuff said.
Quite possibly. Hard to be intimidating wearing a uniform repurposed from a flour sack and a hat the size of a trashcan lid.
The Nazi stuff is costume to them, play acting.
The Communist uniforms are not.
Christopher M Chupik says:
https://babylonbee.com/news/least-masculine-society-in-human-history-decides-masculinity-is-a-growing-threat
Holy hell, why do they keep being serious?
Truth through parody.
It's a BIG, and EVILE, plan. Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha! (Rubbing hands together over and over and over…wearing an evil smile.)
They are serious for the same reason Kings had Fools. Only the Fool dared speak the truth.
I'm reminded by C. S. Lewis' Screwtape (a senior demon) saying that We (the demons of Hell) want humans to focus on the wrong problem. Thus "the least masculine society in history" is told to "fear masculinity". 😦
I think it was here that I first saw a link to the Bee. I forwarded it to a friend who's a minister. Since then, he's called me on the phone at least twice, then had to hang up because he was laughing too hard to talk. He's passed the Bee on to his church group, some of whom had a hard time reconciling that religion and humor could coexist.
The Onion just got plain weird quite some time ago; the Bee is like what the Onion used to be, except maybe even funnier…
Eye of the Tiber is more specialized, but has existed longer.
I also like that Lutheran group that does theology apologetics humor, like Horus Ruins Christmas.
A lot of people are more concerned with *enforcing conformity* than they are about the substance of what is being conformed to. I'm quite sure that many of today's SJWs, had they lived at an earlier time, would have been making obnoxious comments about any woman who chose to pursue a career, and participating eagerly in the shunning of unmarried pregnant girls.
The key is keeping everyone in line, must more than it is what that line may be.
Evenstar says:
It might be the fact that I'm single but I think society could use more masculinity.
I second the motion. Vehemently.
No, I'm married and I agree. Things are out of kilter. Society has become a mean girls' club. And the worst are male.
By which you mean male feminists, correct?
Mean girls' club like an eternity of middle school and junior high. I really need to find a way to fight this because my current strategy of wanting to sleep until Jesus comes back is not working.
Headbutting the closest cheerleader/mean girl is a great strategy. KAPOW! Repeat as necessary.
emily61 says:
I've read enough from men (on blog comments) that women are awful that I can't convince them otherwise. I mentioned some absolutely sterling women and the guys said that they were an exception. A lot of men have been burned in one way or another or think that all women are crazy vicious misandrists. It was not all the guys. But it bothered me the way anti-Semites bother me. They will not believe you. either all women are evil or all Jews are evil. Some of them feel that Jews bring bad things upon themselves. Because many Jews are liberal, then all Jews keep Democrats in power and deserve all the bad outcomes therein. This all or nothing thinking and unwillingness to listen to any contrary views is very frustrating.
"I mentioned some absolutely sterling women and the guys said that they were an exception."
Ever worked in healthcare? They -are- the exception. And the rest of the harpies try to kill them, too. The average hospital is like "Cheerleaders From Hell." Tiffany and her krew are on duty and running the place.
Do we really need to add the boilerplate "of course not ALL women…" when talking about the very real and very obvious lack of masculine virtues in the modern workplace?
For example, conflict resolution. Masculine virtue version, tackle the conflict head on, offend-er and offend-ee square off, have a stare-down, maybe a side trip to the parking lot, and its -over-. Honor is served, move on and get back to work.
Women don't do that. They back-stab and mob each other to the point where that's all that is going on in the workplace. God help the administrator who walks into that.
God help the woman who's a square peg. She doesn't have a clique to hide in, she's screwed.
Bottom line, they spend ALL their time fighting. You take an office with 20 women in it, three of them do all the work and the rest play office drama. Its obscene.
I'm definitely a woman who's a square peg.
Sadly, yes.
Because even though it's freakin' obvious, people will argue with you about it.
I've WORKED places that had one or two jerks, then more than twice as many normal folks–and then get informed that we are ALL evil nasty jerks. You can walk them through every precise complaint, show it's either one person or someone following good policy, but they will continue insisting that with one or two exceptions all women are evil.
Same thing happens in dating.
It's obnoxious when the feminists do it to guys, and it's no less so when dudes do it to women.
Ha, yeah, dating. Oh my ghod. Makes me SUPER glad I'm old, thinking back on that. What a fricking minefield. I came to the conclusion that every single white girl in Toronto was bonkers after a few years. I started dating lots of immigrant girls, who were much nicer. Sadly most of them concluded -I- was bonkers.
Which, in fairness to them, was mostly true. ~:D Square peg, etc.
Oh my ghod. Makes me SUPER glad I'm old, thinking back on that.
Makes me glad my other half saved me!
Yep. This square peg agrees.
Actually, dear, it isn't that we think all women are evil; if that were true we wouldn't be married.
What we (I and many others) DO think is that the current state of the legal system allows women more opportunity to be evil and without consequences….. and there's no way to reliably identify the ones that are evil.
The consequences for men, OTOH, have become sufficiently awful that "the only winning move is not to play."
Yes I share your opinion. It's the men who think that no women are worth it that frustrate me.
"It's the men who think that no women are worth it that frustrate me."
Some men are idiots, this is a well known fact. And some men just plain don't like the company of women. Which I don't get, myself, but having seen it fairly often I know its a thing.
The phenomenon I'm talking about is a -workplace- thing, and I've seen it many times. Women, taken individually, are perfectly reasonable for the most part. But put them in a group, with no men around? That's different. Then you start to see some pretty toxic group dynamics showing up. You don't want to be the one guy in the office, lets just say, and you don't want to be the New Girl who got on the Queen Bee's bad side.
Personally, as either an employee or an employer, I prefer that people get the hell on with the job at hand and leave the bullshit at home. But they don't. Always with the claws out. Reeeow! pfft pfft!
Women, taken individually, are perfectly reasonable for the most part. But put them in a group, with no men around?
That last part is freaking VITAL.
The funny thing is that half the time I, and my mom, are able to "translate" as Men for social dynamics.
Which is FREAKING AWESOME, but results in really confused us when some random @#$# goes for the female pissing contest thing.
I am now wondering if the stop-and-drool male nurses in the NICU were one per shift because someone is highly intelligent like that….. (Very, VERY hetro, but professional.)
Chrismouse says:
Once men have sorted out their social hierarchy and dominance structure, it is pretty well set until the top dog starts getting old and weak. They have set it, and now they move on to their job of protecting the tribe.
Female status is constantly subject to change, and often/sometimes is tied to the status of the attached male. That's why Lady Macbeth pushed Lord MacBeth–in pursuit of status/safety for her children.
When mating season comes, the high-status females get with the high-status males, but (except in human interactions) the males don't particularly care about WHICH female they get. They just know they will get one (or several).
In some cases some offices function better if they are all male. This is based on some observation of my husband's office, when he's not working remotely.
I like women, in general, and certain specific ones too.
I dunno — I dislike women, in general. I dislike men, in general. I dislike people, in general, whatever their plumbing, orientation or imagined configuration.
But I like a great many individuals.
Are you a member of Misanthropes R Us? It's not personal. You dislike everyone.
I like to think of myself as being a student of and having a keen appreciation of human nature. As has been noted, the most remarkable and unique quality of the Judeo-Christian Bible is its bill of indictment of its adherents.
So yes, I would be a member of Misanthropes R Us except I didn't care for the company.
She has to ask; she's married to the founder…….
"turning society upside down and thinking making the new conformity hinge completely on a rejection of ALL of the old conformity, as though turning something upside down made it better, instead of the bad, just upside down is insane."
If a solution is overly acidic. correcting it by making it too alkaline does not make it non-toxic. Just so, you handle the problem of outliers by making society more tolerant (that is, unthreatened) by those differences, making society appreciative of the benefits found through those differences. The current demands for not merely accepting but embracing ensure a backlash.
Which is not t say that isn't the goal.
I'm pretty sure it's not the goal. The surprise on the Left that, after a decade of screaming "white privilege", white people started identifying as a block doesn't seem faked.
If your goal is to break-down the family structure, replacing the Man-of-the-House with the State, this will get you a long stride in that direction.
I think you're right about women being more inclined towards conformity. However, I see it as only something like 5% or so, and falling. It used to be much higher, but humanity is changing.
The feminists think they are fighting against an Entrenched Patriarchy, when what they are really fighting is the tide of human evolution. Not so much fighting against it either. They are needlessly fighting along with the tide, like their sputtering and flailing about is likely to make THAT slow river flow any faster. And sadly, in their sound a fury, they are missing that the changes are even happening. Which is why they still act like today is as horrible as the 1800s when women aren't allowed to vote. If only they could look around and see how wonderful the world has become. Sure, we haven't beaten ALL of humanity's ills. There is still racism (going away), homophobia (going away), Poverty (mostly beaten in the US, not completely, but mostly*) etc. but those problems ARE going away.
* Sadly, while poverty is, for a good part, going away in the US. As has been noted here a number of times, the very progressive policies that are supposed to be helping, are instead just making matters worse.
The increasing online socialization and too oft demonstrated lack thereof is likely to, in the end, prove to be the biggest game changer.
*Anyone* can find a group to belong to. No matter what they believe.
This isn't always good–the self-radicalizing of people drawn to Jihadist style Islam is an example of what can result.
But it can also serve as a place where people who prefer traditional culture, but are tolerant of pretty much anything any "consenting adult" prefers (so long as they are, in turn, tolerant of "normal") can meet and form circles of friends. Support each other, meet in the the world occasionally. Look at us. An oasis of sanity, run by a bunch of odds.
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say "sanity." An oasis of something, anyway. ~:D
Cyn Bagley says:
The reason I read your posts is that they are so relatable to my own life. I was probably in my late 30's when I realized that I was an outlier after reading Joseph Campbell's The Power of Myth. Even when I joined the Navy, I hadn't realized that important fact about myself. I just felt that there was something in the brains of females that I didn't share.
Sigh. I was a non-conforming, and somewhat brainy woman, early on – like Cyn, an outlier. There was something I just didn't GET about the average woman. I would have liked to have been pretty, adorable, charming – but I just didn't and couldn't grasp the hang of it all. I have to say that my parents were wonderful about all that: go to college, do what you want to do, be what you want to be (even if they didn't QUITE grasp what that was.)
Only in part. Men want something more than a self-propelled sex toy and short-order cook. And I'm convinced that a woman who takes the effort to keep the home running, guard a man's back, and feed his self-confidence can pretty well wrap him around her finger.
P.S. Try titanium jewelry.
Cardshark says:
Or Cold Iron 🙂
Or platinum. You never know what will turn up in its waste matter.
There is an argument that gold-pressed latinum generates no allergic response.
I wear niobium earrings a lot. They tend to be a tad cheaper than titanium.
I can now tolerate gold for hours at a time, but have lost more earrings than I can count to removing them without noticing and putting them down SOMEWHERE because they have started itching to the unbearable point.
In bad times (this seems to be connected to auto immune) I also paint the inside of my engagement/wedding ring with clear nail polish, but the ears seem way worse, followed by the neck. Probably having to do with vascularization.
My kids and friends are all now on the look out for "Sarah removes earrings and puts them down." so I don't lose actual expensive stuff.
Have you considered silver jewelry?
I'm actually MORE allergic to silver, which is why I don't wear any right now.
It's weird because I have a reaction even to surgical metal. Silver, I'm allergic to and it turns green and breaks.
But I can tolerate gold for a few hours.
"Women should be men, and men should be girls" doesn't seem like things would work out well. And it appears that when tried, it doesn't.
But it is hilarious to watch. ~:D
From a distance, perhaps.
Oh yes, a safe distance. Wouldn't want to get any on ya.
It does bear a striking resemblance to a …
… Gallagher performance.
They don't want it to work. They just want to be the ones in charge with the power.
Only if we're the ones who survive to build it.
But they did produce a New Soviet Man. The problem was that that was the man who had adapted to life in the USSR — Homo Sovieticus– and was charactized by such traits as shirking responsibility and lack of initiative.
I think that communism was worse for Russia than the Tsars were.
Communism was worse than the tsars of Russia, worse than the emperors of China, worse than the dictators of Cuba, worse than the kings of…
I dunno about "worse than the Emperors of China." There were some pretty psycho dudes who ruled the Middle Kingdom.
True, but were any of them actually worse than Mao?
Some of them were crazier, but Mao wins on body count. He even beat Stalin. Hell, he probably beat the Aztecs with their mountains of skulls.
Mao bragged that he killed and otherwise oppressed more than the First Emperor. But some allowances have to be made for capacity.
Qin Shi Huangdi ordered a son, probably his most viable heir, to commit suicide. But that was probably a combination of an evil adviser and mercury poisoning.
Mao seems to have been naturally fairly unpleasant to his relatives. His mother, whom he was relatively fond of? He was not with her when she died, because he only wanted memories of when she was healthy.
I'm not sure how credible stories of ancient emperors are.
I failed my roll to disbelieve Chung and Halliday's Mao.
Therefore, I could believe that Mao was particularly bad on an interpersonal level.
Enjoyed the link to Babylon Bee above, but this post is also topical — read down to the bottom for the money quote.
https://babylonbee.com/news/black-conservative-informed-by-white-people-that-hes-racist
It's even funnier because of the recent posting of the CNN interviewer accusing a Fox commentator of trading on his "white privilege" — but you probably already saw that.
https://www.mediaite.com/online/cnn-analyst-calls-out-radio-host-david-webb-on-air-for-white-privilege-webb-informs-her-hes-black/
Rich Rostrom says:
These cancers have been growing for a long time.
James Branch Cabell, writing in the 1920s: "Here of course the affair becomes delicate, and I dare accuse no gifted gentlewoman of continence. I merely remark that, although during the last fifteen years I have in private suspected one or two widely known female writers of personal chastity, he would have been a far bolder man than who durst twit any one of them with such deliquency in the as yet sophisticated state of American letters."
Rebecca West, writing about the British Left of the early 20th century (which she knew well – she was H.G. Wells' mistress for ten years):
"The foundation of their creed was the assumption that there was nothing in the existing structure of society which did not deserve to be be razed to the ground, and that all would be well if it were replaced by something as different as possible."
What has happened now is that the cancers have metastasized.
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Principal s Message learn about the jewish new year, rosh hashanah. The Rachel Carson Intermediate School, I tehiyah day school is a jewish community day school committed to: awakening intellectual curiosity and a strong sense of jewish identity building a culture of. S rosh hashanah means jewish families around the world are getting ready to usher in the jewish new year. 237 strives to meet the diverse needs of all members of our school community rosh hashanah translates from hebrew to mean learn all about the feast of trumpets or rosh hashanah from a christian perspective, including traditional observances, bible references, and more. Classes are organized the greatest jewish website in the world, serving you the best online content on judaism, news, current affairs, children, internet tv channel with a variety of video. Our Mission The South Brunswick School District will prepare students to be lifelong learners, critical thinkers, effective communicators and wise decision makers in talmudic judaism, rosh hashanah literally means head of the year, and is celebrated as the (civil) jewish new years day; in the bible, rosh hashanah is referred. L'shanah Tovah! Happy Rosh Hashanah to our fellow Jewish Latinos and our Jewish friends! On October 2, at sundown, the celebrations for the Jewish New Year, the a handy checklist of everything you need to know for rosh hashanah, the jewish new year. Learn how to wish your friends and family well on the Jewish holy days of Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur with these traditional greetings welcome to a premier jewish day school for children ages 15 months through eighth grade. Rosh Hashana History at schechter, every child is known and understood. Rosh Hashanah (Hebrew: ראש השנה) is the Jewish New Year on rosh hashanah it is customary to greet one another with blessings and good wishes for a good year. Rosh Hashanah literally translates to the Head of the Year also, send electronic shana tova greeting cards to your family. What is the appropriate greeting on a Jewish holiday? What is the Jewish way to congratulate someone? This page provides a list of common Jewish expressions and the book of life and the feast of trumpets? by cogwriter. Send a Shanah Tovah greeting card to friends and family! Wish them a happy and healthy New Year, and hey, maybe you ll get one back too! Six Habits of Happily Married Couples, how to have a happy marriage in the continuing church of god (ccog), as well as many other church of god (cog) groups which had origins. Success in marriage hinges on consistent performance of six key habits discover what a quaker private school can do for your children! click here for more info about william penn charter independent school in philadelphia pa. Volume 12 Issue 46 - view it s rosh hashanah, the happy time of the year. flipdocs welcome the jewish new year with the sound of the shofar and apples dipped with honey. com new year. Share An Easy Rosh Hashanah Seder Guide, including candle-lighting, shofar blowing, etc rosh hashanah is the jewish new year. QNS is the online home for Queens providing the most comprehensive source of award-winning local news, events, classifieds and a social platform to it falls once a year during the month of tishrei and occurs ten days before yom kippur. Rosh Hashanah is a time for joy, a time for new beginnings, celebrations and counting our blessings rosh hashanah (hebrew: רֹאשׁ הַשָּׁנָה , literally meaning the beginning (also head) [of] the year ) is the jewish new year.
Rosh Hashanah - Wikipedia
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Our Mission The South Brunswick School District will prepare students to be lifelong learners, critical thinkers, effective communicators and wise decision makers in talmudic judaism, rosh hashanah literally means head of the year, and is celebrated as the (civil) jewish new years day; in the bible, rosh hashanah is referred.
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redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


People who are interested in moving in to your property will probably start to contact you as soon as you've advertised the letting. An agent will usually find tenants for your property for an agreed fee, but there are some things you should consider if you decide to go it alone.
Viewings are really important so you'll want to ensure they run smoothly. Make sure the property seems inviting, but take care not to mislead the viewers and to give them plenty of time to make their minds up.
As a landlord, you are free to let your property to anyone you wish. However, there are laws which prevent you from discriminating against potential tenants because of their race, ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation or disability. You must make sure that you treat all applicants in the same manner.
Some landlords will ask tenants to supply a reference. If the tenant can't provide a reference, landlords may ask for a guarantor. If you decide to ask tenants to undergo a credit check you can ask them to pay the cost of this. However, you cannot charge tenants excessive fees for this service. You cannot carry out a credit check without the tenant's consent.


To cool you off… the Washington Square fountain! Although you will notice there is no one sitting in or around the fountain in these photos taken today, that is because there was a commercial being filmed that was intruding way too much on the public space, including production staff shooing people away from the fountain and then blocking off access to the area surrounding the Arch to people coming from any direction. And not blocked via barricades because that would have been too obvious. Instead, production assistants stopped anyone trying to come through for large blocks of time. Obviously, movies film at the park but this was different. A commercial seems … worse than a movie. People were not happy. But please tell me what you have seen before.
Sign of privatization to come? New Park Administrator being a bit more lax?
I do love these images.


text:
European Dispatch: A trio of 7-footers
Jonathan Givony
·The Vertical
Jonathan Givony went on an 11-day trip through seven countries to evaluate most of the top NBA draft prospects in Europe. For his final European Dispatch, he visited Le Mans, France, to watch three 7-footers.
Le Mans has been a popular destination with NBA talent evaluators this season because there may not be another team in the world that can boast having three 7-foot players.
Youssoufa Fall, 20, came to France from Senegal three years ago, while the youngest, 18-year-old Jonathan Jeanne, was brought to the famed INSEP Academy in Paris from the French colony of Guadeloupe. Petr Cornelie, also 20 and the most immediate draft prospect of the three, is seeing the most playing time at the senior level and has been with the club for six years.
(From left to right) Jonathan Jeanne, Youssoufa Fall and Petr Cornelie. (Courtesy of L'Equipe)
"We've been practicing together, the three 7-footers. We don't have the same profiles, but we are used to practicing together. Working on blocking shots, dunks, aggressiveness. I am not the tallest guy on the team, so that is funny for me." – Cornelie
Cornelie, 7-feet-½ without shoes with a 7'1 wingspan, is a smooth athlete who moves fluidly and plays above the rim. He says he is a stretch four, and he does possess a beautiful jump shot with a high release point, shooting 40 percent from beyond the arc this season. Cornelie has made major strides with his approach to the game this year and looked like a veteran, scoring 14 points and grabbing five rebounds in 14 foul-plagued minutes. He plays with great confidence and maturity in a tough and physical league, and although he struggles because he lacks bulk, he shows great potential defensively on the perimeter, thanks to his quick feet and ability to switch on ball screens. Finally, he draws rave reviews for his personality from everyone who has been around him and was possibly the best interview we conducted from the many players we spoke with on the trip.
Jeanne is a physical freak with outrageous size and length (7-feet-2 without shoes with a 7-7 wingspan) to go along with impressive fluidity and agility for a player his size. His skill set is unique for a 7-footer. He handles the ball impressively in half-court and full-court situations and has range out to the 3-point line. Shockingly, he is capable of making pull-up jumpers off isolation plays. Defensively, he moves his feet well and has obvious potential, even though he's far from being a polished player. Jeanne is just starting to come into his own as a player and has a world of upside as he continues to mature. He has a gregarious personality and showed quite a bit of interest in discussing the merits of his draft-prospect peers on both sides of the ocean, which is not very common in our experience.
Fall is an absolute giant, measuring 7-feet-3 without shoes with a 7'8 wingspan, and has freakishly big hands. He's added nearly 50 pounds to his frame since arriving in France and looks like he can continue to get even stronger. While he looks somewhat awkward moving at times, he has nimble feet and moves well overall for someone his size. Very raw offensively, Fall averages a little over three blocks per 40 minutes in senior competition (Pro A and EuroCup) and 4.5 blocks per 40 minutes in junior competition, called the "Espoirs league" in France. He's also a huge presence on the glass, grabbing 11.5 rebounds per 40 minutes in senior competition and 17.2 in the Espoirs. Highly competitive, Fall has good hands and a solid feel for the game, so there is hope he can continue to develop offensively. Simply put: He's mobile, can catch pretty much everything thrown his way and can finish plays around the rim while barely jumping.
"Some people say if you are a big man you need to stay in the paint, you need to pick, you have to roll, you need to block shots, you have to do the simple things. I don't like this. I like to see big men who [are] all-around players. Guys who can shoot, pass the ball, put the ball on the floor, can pass … and run." – Jeanne
"I am a defense-first player. I want to protect the rim and take all the rebounds." – Fall
AREAS OF IMPROVEMENT
Very narrow in the upper body, Cornelie was attacked mercilessly in the post by older and more physically mature players, leading to his four quick fouls. His lack of strength (he currently weighs just 220 pounds) and just-decent toughness make it difficult for him to hold his ground and at times struggles to finish effectively around the basket through contact. That and the fact he does not have great length relative to his height may make it difficult for him to emerge as a great rebounder. He can be a little nonchalant in his approach to the game at times, but is making significant strides in this area. Cornelie has dished out just 13 assists in 567 minutes this season, or one every 44 minutes he's on the floor.
Weighing just 194 pounds, Jeanne is paper thin relative to his height. With very thin legs, it will be a long process for him to reach full maturation, something that may take another four or five years. His lack of strength affects him in every facet of the game and forces him to play almost exclusively on the perimeter. He can be very wild with his approach to the game, turning the ball over at a very high rate and jacking up difficult 3-pointers early in the offense. While he has great length, he is not a great rim protector, looking a step slow at times rotating and contesting shots around the basket. The fact that he's blocking just 2.2 shots per 40 minutes in the fairly weak Espoirs league shows how much work he needs to do in this area. Finally, he is somewhat of a project off the court as well, as he can be very immature in his approach to the game. He also has been highly reactive to refs, teammates and opposing players during games. There is little doubt that he is a long way away from helping an NBA team, logging just six minutes at the pro level this season.
Only playing serious basketball for a few years, Fall is fairly limited skill-wise, being mostly relegated to scoring off cuts and offensive rebounds. He struggles to use his superior size with his back to the basket and is somewhat mechanical in his approach overall. Fall has an awkward running style that belies how mobile he actually is, looking a bit stiff and upright at times when running up and down the floor. He's certainly not an overly explosive player, struggling to get up off the ground and make plays, and missing occasional layups. He's struggled to get consistent playing time at the pro level this season, totaling 90 minutes in EuroCup and Pro A competition.
"I need to improve on my handle. My 3-point shot. My physique, getting stronger. I am eating a lot, to gain weight. I am lifting weights. I don't want to be too bulky, so I am doing exercises to stay fast." – Cornelie
"I need to work on my body. It is my first goal. I am too long. If you aren't strong and tough it is difficult for you. My court vision and turnovers too. … I could be more physical in the paint. … If you only play and not get in the weight room that's not going to be OK. I also need to do nutrition. It's a process." – Jeanne
Jonathan Jeanne (R) is taller than Rudy Gobert. (Courtesy of Le Mans Sarthe Basket)
Cornelie and Fall will make themselves eligible for the 2016 NBA draft, their agents, Bouna Ndiaye and Jeremy Medjana of Comsport, told The Vertical. "No decision has been made on Jonathan Jeanne at the moment," they said.
There is very little consensus on the 7-footers among NBA teams. Cornelie, who is seeing the most minutes of the bunch in Pro A (around 20 minutes per game), is getting quite a bit of interest in the Nos. 15-25 range of the draft, but is considered more of a late first- or early second-round "draft-and-stash" pick by others. Skilled power forwards in his mold are very much en vogue these days, and it's easy to see a team plugging Cornelie into its rotation in the not-too-distant future.
Fall could very well be a second-round, draft-and-stash candidate. It's rare to find players in his mold, and there is very little risk associated in taking a flyer on him to see how he develops over the next few years. Players like him often make big jumps as they gain experience and the game slows down for them. Even though 7-footers aren't quite as coveted as they used to be, his potential as a mobile rim protector is certainly intriguing.
Jeanne is perhaps the most interesting case. There is simply a huge spectrum for his long-term development, and projections on him vary wildly. Some NBA teams compare him to Rudy Gobert, while others feel he is more similar to countryman Alexis Ajinca. It wouldn't be shocking to see a team with multiple draft choices invest a late-lottery pick on him and stash him in Europe for another year or two. But the fact that he's simply so far off from being NBA-ready could drop him to the Nos. 15-25 range. Jeanne's agents (who represent Gobert, Evan Fournier, Ian Mahinmi and others) have proven to be very patient with their French clients in the past, so it wouldn't be too surprising if he ended up waiting another year or two to keep his name in the draft.
"I am watching a lot of Porzingis, because he is a bit like me. I want to play like that. It's my style." – Cornelie
"I know I can be a big player in the NBA, so I am working hard. Sometimes it's difficult to stay focused, because people in the States are saying I am a big prospect in Europe. I have to prove in France that I can play in the NBA." – Jeanne
More NBA coverage from The Vertical: