text:
11/9/2011 Interviews with Ken Babal and Colleen Patrick-Goudreau
http://itsallaboutfood.podbean.com/mf/web/urryye/ItsAllAboutFood110911.mp3
11/9/2011:
Part I: Ken Babal, CN
Mushrooms for Health and Longevity
Ken Babal is a licensed clinical nutritionist with over 25 years experience. He is a consultant to the natural food and supplement industry and a former instructor for Southern California School of Culinary Arts.
Ken Babal has written over 100 articles that have appeared in many popular publications including Let's Live, Taste for Life and Doctors' Prescription for Healthy Living. He is co-author with Shari Lieberman, Ph.D. of Maitake Mushroom and D-Fraction (Woodland 2004) and author of Good Digestion: Your Key to Vibrant Health (Alive 2000) and Seafood Sense: The Truth about Seafood Nutrition and Safety (Basic Health Publications 2005).
Ken appears in the Discovery Health Channel documentary Alternatives Uncovered and E! TV's The High Price of Fame: Starved!. He has also been a guest on many local and national radio programs.
As a professional musician and drummer, Ken became interested in nutrition as a means of realizing one's optimum potential. "You can't have a bad day when you go on stage. Nutrition is something we have control over and it plays a huge role in how we feel and perform each day."
Part II: Colleen Patrick-Goudreau
The 30 Day Vegan Challenge
The award-winning author of five books, including the bestselling The Joy of Vegan Baking, The Vegan Table, Color Me Vegan, Vegan's Daily Companion, and The 30-Day Vegan Challenge, Colleen Patrick-Goudreau has guided people to becoming and staying vegan for over 12 years through sold-out cooking classes, bestselling books, inspiring lectures, engaging videos, and her immensely popular audio podcast, "Vegetarian Food for Thought." Using her unique blend of passion, humor, and common sense, she empowers and inspires people to live according to their own values of compassion and wellness. She also contributes to National Public Radio and The Christian Science Monitor, and has appeared on The Food Network and PBS. Visit colleenpatrickgoudreau.com for more.
TRANSCRIPTION PART I:
Hello, I'm Caryn Hartglass and you're listening to It's All About Food. Good afternoon. Happy Autumn. Happy November. It is incredible here in New York City. The weather is so fabulous it just makes me think about global warming. I'm going to enjoy it while it's here. I want to remind you that I recently founded the nonprofit Responsible Eating and Living and the website is responsibleeatingandliving.com. It's where I get to put all of my energy and passion. There are wonderful recipes up there. We just put up a new video based on Barry Estabrook's book Tomatoland. We had him on the show several weeks ago. I bring that up because it's such an important issue this thing with conventional tomatoes now that winter is coming we're going to see more of the Florida conventional tomato here in New York and all around the country. Something you will want to know, one of these tasteless, red, round treats because they're filled with things that I don't think most of us want to support. Check that out at responsibleeatingandliving.com. As the season gets colder and changes we really need to keep our immune system supplied with great nutrients to keep us strong and keep us well. We talk a lot about health here on this show, one thing I haven't talked too much about, I'm not exactly sure why, but we're going to talk a lot about in the first part of the show—mushrooms. My guest is Ken Babal the author of Mushrooms for Health and Longevity. He's a licensed clinical nutritionist with over 25 years experience. He is a consultant to the natural food and supplement industry and a former instructor for Southern California School of Culinary Arts. He has written over 100 articles that have appeared in many popular publications including Let's Live, Taste for Life and Doctors' Prescription for Healthy Living. He is co-author with Shari Lieberman of Maitake Mushroom and D-Fraction and author of Good Digestion: Your Key to Vibrant Health and Seafood Sense: The Truth about Seafood Nutrition and Safety. He appears in the Discovery Health Channel documentary Alternatives Uncovered and E! TV's The High Price of Fame: Starved!. He has also been a guest on many local and national radio programs. And last, as a professional musician and drummer, Ken became interested in nutrition as a means of realizing one's optimum potential. "You can't have a bad day when you go on stage. Nutrition is something we have control over and it plays a huge role in how we feel and perform each day." Welcome to It's All About Food, Ken.
Ken Babal: Hello Caryn. Boy, you covered the whole bio there, thank you.
CH: I think you deserve it. And I just want to be sure I pronounce your last name. How do you say it?
KB: Babal.
CH: Babal, ok. I got it. Very good. Before we start talking about mushrooms. I really enjoyed reading the last part of your bio about being a professional musician and drummer. I personally just came from a musical rehearsal where a bunch of singers were working on a project and one of the guys was struggling because his immune system was down, and he's like hoarse and can't get anything out. You really can't have a bad day when you're a musician, when you're a singer it's so important to have a strong immune system.
KB: Sure. I'm sure you're well aware of that as a vocalist.
CH: When your instrument is your voice you really can't let it go. Blues singing has been a passion of mine for a long time, not just for that but so many things but definitely it's more obvious when you're performing.
KB: True. I just got a testimonial from a singer recently. He was having trouble, he was having to cancel shows because he was just constantly getting sick. He started to take a mushroom supplement as a matter of fact. He said he hasn't been ill since he started on it. So he's very pleased about that.
CH: Well you know most people are looking for a secret pill, one thing that they can pop that's going to solve all their problems. I'm not going to say that there is one but mushrooms come pretty close to solving a lot of ills. It's amazing. We're just at the tip of discovering all the great things that they can do.
KB: I agree, there's no magic pill but mushrooms come close because they are unique. You think about it, they're not a vitamin, they're not a plant, they're in this category we sometimes we call the third kingdom, they are members of the fungal family.
CH: I was reading this in your book and I found it really interesting. I really wasn't clear on that before so could you talk more about what funguses and mushrooms really are?
KB: It might turn a few people off when they think of a fungus they think of moldy bread, mildew in shower stalls and that type of thing. Also penicillin, for example, is in the fungal family. The mushrooms' DNA actually puts them closer to humans than it does to plants.
CH: That's wild…just learning about this and you write that they take in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide just like people do.
KB: Yes they mimic human respiration.
CH: It's wild, it's kind of giving me the creeps somehow. Maybe mushrooms really are…they're not animals, they're not plants, they're funguses.
KB: Right.
CH: They don't feel pain though, they don't have any central nervous system?
KB: No.
CH: They are really, really amazing. So there are so many different kinds and we are discovering so many phenomenal properties they have. One thing I'm amazed at. This book we're talking about—Mushrooms for Health and Longevity—it's really a guide. It's short, it's tiny but it's packed. Every sentence that you've written is, I can't skim this book. I have to slowly take in every word because there's a lot of very interesting, packed full of great stuff kind of information.
KB: I've tried to make it consumer friendly. There's plenty of books out there that are quite technical on the study of mycology but this one is an easy read and I wanted to fill it with facts and put some pictures of beautiful mushrooms in there and recipes and some of the medicinal uses of the mushroom supplements.
CH: Let's talk about some of the, do you have a favorite mushroom?
KB: I'm just a big mushroom fan in general. If I had to choose one, I would say, maitake.
CH: Is that for eating or for its property?
KB: Both. Quite a few people are familiar with shitaki mushrooms but maitake is kind of coming to the forefront, it may pass shitake as a favorite culinary mushroom but besides that it has so many wonderful health properties. As a matter of fact, the maitake mushroom extracts, for example it's called D-fraction, is crossing over into mainstream medicine that's used as an adjunct in cancer patients' programs.
CH: It's almost like mushrooms can be chemotherapy or better than chemotherapy.
KB: What the study suggests is that they enhance the effects of the drugs and that's significant because you know how a lot of conventional doctors are leery of supplements and herbs and so on. They think that it might interfere with the treatment. In this case we have a lot of good scientific information that actually shows that the mushrooms complement the conventional treatments and help to alleviate the side effects of some of these treatments, chemo and radiation and so on.
CH: It really is important and I hope that more doctors are staying up with the research to know this because I had my personal experience with cancer and chemotherapy about five years ago and I did talk to a number of different doctors that I was consulting with and I don't think they were up on all the research as I was, because I was trying to save my own life. I read some of the articles that showed that supplementation might negatively affect the impact of chemotherapy and then there were articles that discussed how this wasn't true and so there was this sort of grey area but some doctors definitely believe that you should not supplement while they are giving you the drug and it's not true with mushrooms. It's very clear that they only help.
KB: And so all the doctors have to do is look at the research for themselves. A lot of times the patients wind up educating the doctors.
CH: Now maitake—I don't ordinarily see this in my supermarket. I know I can get it as a supplement but are there places where you can buy it fresh or buy it dried?
KB: Yeah, I think it's beginning to appear more and more in major supermarkets, usually dried along with the shitake, Portobello, morel or something like that. I've been seeing them fresh in the produce departments lately.
CH: I'm going to look more for them. I live in New York City so I can find everything here…certainly in Chinatown, in Manhattan and in Queens there are stores that have so many different dried grey things of different shapes and sizes. I have no idea what they are but I bet maitake is in there.
KB: Particularly the Asian stores because they are quite familiar with mushrooms in China and Japan. They've been revered not only as food but as medicine for thousands of years.
CH: There are good mushrooms and there are bad mushrooms. How do we tell the difference.
KB: That's another thing that turns some people off, they are kind of suspicious about mushrooms.
CH: I remember when I was a teenager, I have never done anything, I've never done any kind of drug, I've never smoked or taken anything but I knew of lot of people that were getting off on mushrooms.
KB: Yeah, the magic mushrooms, yeah.
CH: So how do we know? How can we trust the mushrooms that we get?
KB: There are thousands of mushrooms there's only out of the thousands perhaps only fifty that are poisonous. People in the business that supply markets and so on they take pride in their work and they are very knowledgeable about that sort of thing. It's a different story for somebody you know who wants to go out in the forest and start picking mushrooms. They have to know what they're doing and maybe have somebody help them along but it's really not much of a concern.
CH: I'll never forget I had a friend who was going to graduate school for botany and he was doing some studies in upstate New York and I visited him and we went through the woods and he was identifying all these different mushrooms and one of them he said, it was just a beige simple looking mushroom and he said this will bruise blue and he rubbed it and it turned this incredible bright blue.
KB: Wow.
CH: But it was very poisonous, very beautiful but very poisonous.
KB: But you know the flip side of that is that the edible mushrooms are said to stimulate imagination and intuition and you think about it you know, they don't provide food energy from the sun. They appear mostly at night so they're said to be under lunar influences and that is believed to infuse them with this ability to stimulate imagination and intuition when they're consumed.
CH: I was fascinated by a couple of things: One, that mushrooms have a lot of similar DNA as humans and also that they take in oxygen and give off carbon dioxide like animals. And also they don't get what they need from the sun, the nutrition they get from rotting things in woods and leaves and …
KB: Right, they're performing a valuable recycling service to humans.
CH: They're just really fascinating to me. And they make Vitamin D.
KB: They do as a matter of fact. Other than sunlight they are the only vegetarian source of Vitamin D.
CH: You said that some of them are becoming commercial now? Is there a way that we can find some of the mushrooms that have significant amounts of Vitamin D in them?
KB: All mushrooms have that Vitamin D precursor. Just like vegetables have betacarotene which the body converts into active Vitamin A. The same thing with mushrooms. They have something called Ergosterol which is a provitamin D and our bodies convert that into active Vitamin D. What some of the mushroom companies, the growers, are doing now is they are exposing them to light and that converts the provitamin into the active form of Vitamin D and that will be represented in the nutrition facts panel. You'll see: Provides 100% of the daily value for Vitamin D.
CH: OK, I'm going to look for that. What about eating mushrooms raw? Is that ok? I've heard mixed things about eating mushrooms raw.
KB: Yeah, I like to have raw button mushrooms occasionally on my spinach salad but ideally in this case they are better cooked. Like any food you take the good with the bad, there's some sort of antinutrients in there. So for the best nutrition I would suggest cooking them.
CH: Because sometimes when I get fresh shitake mushrooms and I'll have one raw and, what I love about it is, if it's a really good one, it has a really buttery flavor but I can't eat more than one raw because then I don't feel very good.
KB: Well, we need both raw and cooked foods in our diet.
CH: Now what about organic? I've seen some packages of dried organic mushrooms. Are there mushrooms that are not grown organically how does that work?
KB: I would suspect so. That's interesting. I really haven't looked into that far enough to take a survey.
CH: I just wondered if it's worth the extra price to buy the organic.
KB: Organic is always the best choice.
CH: I agree.
KB: And the price is coming down a lot on a lot of organic items.
CH: It's really nice to have dried mushrooms because they don't take up a lot of space.
KB: They're just ready to go whenever you need them.
CH: They're just instant flavor for soup broth. That's what I like about them.
KB: As much as I like mushrooms I don't eat them every day. So for that reason, I like to take a mushroom supplement right along with my multiple vitamin.
CH: There are some mushrooms that really aren't for eating that are good for supplementation.
KB: That's the other thing. Some of the terrific mushrooms, reishi for example, it's just too tough and woody to eat. The only way you can benefit from that is to take it as a supplement, as an extract.
CH: I definitively took some of that when I was going through my cancer treatment. I'm here to talk about it so I know that it had to have had a positive impact. Now there's another mushroom I was reading about in here, I didn't know about. It caught my attention—called tremella. It's supposed to keep our skin looking young.
KB: Yeah, another common name for it is white jelly leaf. Again, tremella has had a long history in traditional Chinese medicine for nourishing the lungs and stomach and kidneys. It's what we would call a yin jing tonic which means that it enhances life energy by helping us assimilate nutrients so it helps the body retain moisture as well. Some companies that are exploiting that now and putting it in facial creams. I'm sure a lot of folks are familiar with hyaluronic acid, sort of like an internal beauty supplement. Hyaluronic acid is very good for moisturizing the skin. Turns out the tremella, when they compared it with hyaluronic acid is actually more effective than hyaluronic acid in helping the body retain moisture. So tremella you can eat it but you can also use it in a face cream.
CH: Well, I'm sold. I can't wait to go out and buy more mushrooms. I just read this thing and I'm like I need to get this and I need to get this and hoo! Now are there some suppliers of mushroom supplements that are better than others or some places we don't want to be getting mushroom supplements from?
KB: I think they're all reputable. However, one company comes to mind. It's called Mushroom Wisdom. As a matter of fact they're located in New Jersey. I have a lot of respect for them because they're doing a lot of the research I've been talking about. They're investing their own money to provide the science and the clinical studies that we need to benefit from these supplements. As matter of fact, they are the same folks that make tremella face cream called Aquamella.
CH: I want to get some except it says that it is also believed to remove facial freckles if used frequently. And I like my freckles so I'm not sure I want them to go away.
KB: Oh, I see.
CH: Mushrooms grown in different places pick up different flavors? I'm sure that's true of all foods but I lived in France for four years and the simple frozen white mushroom that I would buy had incredible flavor not the same as the white mushrooms here in the United States. I really miss them.
KB: It was frozen huh?
CH: Yeah it was great. They were sliced and frozen, fabulous. I was just wondering what was in them that made them taste so good.
KB: I don't know but I can tell you nutrition-wise they provide protein and B vitamins and of course Vitamin D.
CH: A lot of people think that mushrooms have nothing in them but they are packed with flavor and nutrients.
KB: You know of course the common property of all these mushrooms is they're immune-enhancing ability and that is attributed to a type of carbohydrate actually. Normally we think of carbohydrates for energy. In this case carbohydrate is called beta glycan and by the way, maitake D-fraction is a concentration of beta glycans. The beta glycans activate our white blood cells, which is the most important part of our immunity. You can actually find receptors on mycophages for these beta glycans. They're involved in cell signaling.
CH: I'm looking at a table in your book of all the different type of applications that mushrooms can have. If you want just one pill, like I said at the beginning, these mushrooms are it. They can help lower cholesterol, there are a few here that are anti-allergy, lots of evidence of reducing or shrinking cancer tumors, there are some that help with dementia, this is really spectacular.
KB: If I were to sum it up I would describe them as anti-allergenic, antibacterial, anti-inflammatory, anti-viral, as well as the ability to sensitize ourselves to insulin. To get back to maitake, there's another maitake extract, called sx-fraction, turns out that one is helpful to diabetics in controlling their blood sugar.
CH: Well, Ken, I am thrilled with this little book. When I first got it I thought, it's just this little thing and when I got into it there's really a lot of great stuff in here. And then just talking about my favorite subject which is eating food, you've got some great recipes in the fact for different mushrooms and different soups and stir fries and spring rolls, and even desserts with mushrooms.
CH: So, I'm hungry.
KB: I know. When you look at the pictures it makes you want to go into your kitchen and start cooking.
CH: Thanks Ken, thanks for this book and for your work and coming on the show.
KB: Thanks Caryn. Great to be with you.
CH: OK, take care and be well. Do you have a website before you go?
KB: I do. It's called simply nutritionmusician.com
CH: nutritionmusician.com. Great, thank you, Ken Babal, author of Mushrooms for Health and Longevity.
Transcribed by Suzanne Kelly, 11/3/2013
TRANSCRIPTION PART II:
CARYN:
Hello, we're back. I'm Caryn Hartglass and you're listening to It's All about Food. And we're going to continue with my favorite subject: food.
And bring on the next guest, and that is Colleen Patrick-Goudreau, and we're going to be talking about her newest book: The 30-Day Vegan Challenge. She's an award-winning author of five books, including the best-selling Joy of Vegan Baking, The Vegan Table, Color Me Vegan, Vegan's Daily Companion, and now the 30-Day Vegan Challenge. She has guided people to becoming and staying vegan for over 12 years through sold-out cooking classes, best-selling books, inspiring lectures, engaging videos, and her immensely popular audio podcasts: Vegetarian Food for Thought.
Using her unique blend of passion, humor, and common sense, she empowers and inspires people to live according to their own values of compassion and wellness. She also contributes to National Public Radio and the Christian Science Monitor and has appeared on the Food Network and PBS. Visit ColleenPatrickGoudreau.com for more.
Hello, and welcome to It's All about Food, Colleen.
COLLEEN:
Hi Caryn, thank you for having me. It's good to talk you again.
Yeah, it's good to talk to you. And thank you for the book. I got it, and I read it, and I'm ready to talk about it.
Oh, great, thank you.
First, I didn't realize what it was going to be. And I thought it was just going to be a cookbook, and there are many, many wonderful recipes in here, but there is a whole lot more. And you basically talk about everything people need to know.
Yeah, it's wonderful. It's actually really wonderful because this is a culmination of eleven years of my work. And you know, it was just published in August, and I wrote it a year ago, and it answers everything that I know people ask, and so when people come up to me now, I just saw a woman yesterday in a store, she said, "I know, but what about eating out?" and I said–
Read the book.
"What about traveling?" and it's in the book. Nothing you ask is unique. Nothing you ask hasn't been asked before. So that's what's really exciting about it. It really covers every question people ask about this lifestyle.
That's funny that nothing people ask is really unique We've heard all these questions over and over, the funny thing is I kind of got a sore neck reading this book cause I just kept nodding. Yes, yes, yes, yes, oh yeah, uh-huh, right. [laughs]
But that's great, that it's all here. And uh, it's um, It's really a good guide because, okay, you touch on some of the serious stuff–the nutrition, whatever–but it's really just common sense things that help people through this change.
Yeah, I really tried to make this as easy as possible. I mean, the reason the book exists is because I realized that making changes is actually hard for people. That's whether you're becoming vegan or doing anything. The change is difficult for people. And so as much as that I can guide people and help them change habit, there are some things that I, you know, people need help with. Once you get past that, then it's just a matter of creating new habits and kind of looking in a different direction, and that's really what I do: I say, "Look, you're going to be changing some of the foundation that's been familiar to you for many, many years. But the good news is we're gonna be replacing that with a new foundation so I'm gonna give you everything you need so that when you're done, you're standing on firm ground. You're not flailing about, and I think that's been a real problem with people, I think there's a lot of people who are compelled to make these changes and become vegan for so many reasons, but they don't know how to do it, and that's really how I see my work, is that it helps people, it's a guide for people, and that's what this book is.
Now, it's a 30-day vegan challenge, and the way you set it up is there's a different chapter for every day. And, my– I would recommend to people if they were making a transition to the vegan diet I would read this whole book first, and then go back and read it a chapter a day. While they're doing it.
It's true. It's interesting, isn't it? It's very much more than meant to be programmatic. My intention from the very beginning was not, "Look, day one you do this, day two you do this, day three you do this, and by the end of the 30-day you're vegan." This was, "Do it for 30 days, just commit to doing it for 30 days, and the book will give you everything you need and I suspect that they're gonna read ahead cause you're gonna want to know what to do the next day. You're gonna want all the information to then– then do it for 30 days. And the keep looking back to it as a resource guide. But I think that's what a lot of people are doing: reading it all at once.
Right. No, I think that's the best way to do it, and then know, as you're doing it. "Oh, I remember reading that, let me go and check up on that."
Good, yeah, exactly. And there's so many things that people can use: to take it to the store with them because, you know, I mean there's a whole chapter on just, as you know, stocking your pantries and produces–lists and lists and lists of items that people would want to put on their shopping list, and, you know, recipes so they can go to the grocery store with the book and have a shopping list. I mean, so there's a lot of resources to use again and again.
Now you've been doing this for eleven, twelve years. How long have you been vegan?
For twelve years.
Oh. Okay.
For twelve years. I started right away. [laughs]
So you haven't been into this for that long, because I mean some of us have been doing this for decades, and right now it's really exciting, because it seems like this is our time. People know what the word is: vegan. for the most part know how to pronounce it: vegan. [laughs] And– sometimes some people say "vay-guhn" but that's okay. But we're on television now, and if you read the New York Times, but every Sunday it's so exciting because now I see three vegan books on the New York's Times' how-to best-selling list. We have Forks Over Knives, we have Eat to Live, and I just saw Dr. Caldwell's Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease, and this is so exciting.
This is very exciting, absolutely.
So people need to know how to do it, because people are talking about it.
Right. Right, exactly. And that's, again, that's what happens is what I talk to a lot of people who read those books, or seen films, and they all have the same reaction: they want to do it, but they still ask the same questions–they all ask the same questions. So that's what this is, that's the why, and this is the how.
You talk about a lot of interesting things in here, and I don't remember exactly where it was, but it had to do with where we've come as a civilization in terms of food. And you know there's a lot of people that say, you know, humans weren't meant to eat this way, you know, we're meant to– and I certainly don't agree with that, and I think we're really evolving. We're eating all different kinds of ways, and cultures have eaten all different kinds of ways, and I think we're really just learning now about what's best for humans in terms of disease and longevity and just feeling good.
I think it's true. I think in terms of real optimal nutrition I think we're really learning more now than we ever did before. But I think we've known for a long time what food really are the most helpful for us, and it got away from us as we became more affluent as our society became more affluent. We had access to things we never had access to before, which isn't necessarily a good thing. Cause bringing all of these things into our diet has actually caused a lot of problems. So no, of course we're learning more today, which is really good. That's where I am. Let's look forward, not look backward, and I think the excuses that people make, those statements about "But this is how we've always eaten," "But this is how we evolved, "But this is what we did 10,000 years ago."
I don't care what we did 10,000 years ago. That doesn't interest me. What interests me is how well we can do today, and how well we can do in the future. And, you know, I just find, Caryn, what I love about the response I get to that, is that it empowers people. I think we've kept the bar too low for too long. You hear, even, you know I've heard even vegan educators that are vegan activists say, "Well, people aren't going to do it all so we might as well just expect them to do only this much." I'm like, what are you talking about? People can do a lot more than you expect of them and I think we need to raise the bar. And when you do raise the bar people rise immediately and it's a beautiful thing. They realize they can do things they perhaps never thought they could themselves.
I'm going to say amen to that, I really agree on raising the bar for so many things. So often when– the times I'm in a doctor's office and I'm talking about nutrition, and ask them why aren't you telling me this, and they say, "Well, you know, we do say it, but most people, you know, they don't want to get there… and," But if the doctor– if everyone raises the bar and says, "This is what you need to do," people will meet that challenge.
They will meet the challenge, and I'll tell you, they're looking for it. They want it, they want the truth. People want to know what they can do to be the most– the healthiest they can be. They want to be the best people they can be. They want to be the most compassionate, and we're really selling them short, and we're not doing them any favors by just saying, "Oh, well, you're not gonna– you're not gonna do it so I'm just gonna give you the lowest amount of information, you know, the least amount of information, so that you can make the least number of changes so that you're not uncomfortable"? I mean, that's just so, that's just underestimating them so much.
Well, yeah, part of it is when people are told how important good nutrition is, they don't believe it. I know some people that just say [unclear] information, certainly for me, over and over, but they're still kind of on the fence because they don't see enough, they don't hear enough, there's so so much garbage out there.
It's true, and if you notice– if you find the book on the– in the chapters on nutrition. You know, one of the things I really emphasize is that this is not that complicated and you don't have to be, you know, a nutritionist, or a registered dietician or a doctor to understand this stuff. Or a chemist. It's pretty basic stuff. And so the approach I take is don't even listen to me. You don't even have to believe me, but let's look at common sense. The common sense is that calcium is a mineral found in the ground, and the reason cow's milk has calcium in it is because the cow eats grass. You know, the omega 3 fatty acid that we find in fish is because the fish are eating the phytoplankton, they're eating the algae, they're eating the plant. So my whole point is that I get to be at the place of– the nutrients we need are plant-based, period.
You don't have to believe me, but just start thinking about it. What we're doing right now is going through the animal to get to the plants that the animals are eating themselves to get the nutrients we're trying to get that originated in the plant. So when you touch it that way, people go, "I never thought about that before," or "I never thought of that" and that's the kind of thing that I hope to do, is just, you know, kind of shift paradigm for people so that they don't have to think, like, "Yeah, but how many grams, and how many milligrams, and how many– you don't have to measure away. You just have to understand the basic idea, that the nutrients are in the plants, and when we base our diet on plants we're getting the most nutrients.
It's not complicated. It's easy and it's delicious.
Another thing I like in the book, I use this from time to time, or I'll ask people, "You know, you drink cow's milk?" How would you like a cold glass of dog's milk?" And, uh, you have a great chapter on this, and, uh, you've added to it something that I didn't think of, and that is that the animal that we've used for milk are the ones that don't run away or don't fight with us.
Yeah. And I make that point because I want people to understand how arbitrary the decision is. For us to consume– the ones who are consuming the milk of the animal– the milk that we're consuming– the cow's milk, you know, the goat's milk, and in different parts of the world, they do consume buffalo's milk, and, you know, yak's milk and camel's milk. And when you look at what all these animals share is that they're herd animals and they're easy to control and easy to keep together. So it's the characteristic of the animal, not the characteristic of the milk, that makes– that have made us drink their milk for so long. If we could have controlled hyenas, if we could have controlled lions, we would have. It had nothing to do with the milk itself, it had everything to do with the animals that, you know, we could control.
Right. That's pretty brilliant.
Thank you. [laughs] That's– That's– Again, the idea is that's how arbitrary this is. And we don't even drink our own human milk into adulthood. The animal whose milk we're drinking, they're not even drinking their own species' milk in adulthood. It doesn't make any sense. We've just all been, you know, we've all had the same marketing material from, you know, when we were so young that this was just embedded in our brains, but when you just phrase it a certain way it's pretty amazing to watch people's lapels go off when you say something like that and they go, "Oh my God, I've never thought about that before."
One of the reasons why I thought it was important to read this book in its entirety before going off and doing the 30 days is what happens when you have to go out and talk to people about what you're doing and the responses that you get, because a lot of people get intimidated, a lot of people get asked a lot of questions… you address a lot of them in this book.
So much pressure. Yeah, I mean, it's– I talk about the social affects a lot because I think that's very, very important, not only for us to be able to speak our truth and stand up for what we believe in and be able to feel confident and unapologetic about something that's so powerful and so positive. But also because, you know, I do think we have a responsibility to be able to plant seeds when we're talking to other people, and again, I think in the past, too long, vegetarians and vegans have felt intimidated doing this because they thought they were imposing their beliefs on someone when really it's a done– in the right way it's about sharing the truth, and that's not something we have to apologize for and frankly it's not something we can afford not to do. So I talk a lot about the social aspects and being able to answer those questions and feel really confident doing it.
Well, a lot of people having a real hard time with it. I know that there are some of us who don't care what people think and can be really aggressive and just demand, and be upfront. But many people are not, and they need answers, they need scripted responses for the questions. And as you know, most of the questions, all of the questions we've heard before. So–
We've heard before, exactly. And I think what happens is, people who heard them, I think what happens is that we forget what we once were. I think we forget that we probably asked those questions to, and when we forget, that means when someone comes to us with these questions, "Oh my God I've had that same answer– same question– protein again, I'm so sick of it," but you know, it's the first time that person may be asking that question–
–thinking about it. Yeah.
Wait. And so you have to treat every person and every question as unique because it is. Because that's the first time you're actually having that conversation with that person. And the [unclear] is unique experience that we have to just kind of get out of our own way and really do a service to the truth by answering those questions even if we've been asked them a thousand times.
Where's a unique place in our culture right now where we have a number of different problems in resecting our nutrition. One is, especially since World War II, when all these industrialized chemical manufacturing came into place we're creating things and putting them in boxes and feeding them to people and calling them to food [laughs] and they're not really food. Why are junk food, a lot of highly processed food, and we're seeing this taking a toll on health. And the other part os that is as the population grows–we just reached seven billion recently, congratulations–if that we're confining animals into this sopho– horrific spaces in order to grow more of them to see people there's– two things are happening at the same time and they're both not healthy.
And the– have a lot of bad impact on us, and you know, so when people– getting back to that subject where people talk about eating the way we're supposed to eat or nature intended, I mean, we're so far away from that.
Not even talking about being vegetarian.
For sure. We are. Absolutely. And that's what's so lovely about being able to, you know, espouse this. We're talking about whole food, we're talking about, you know, whole grain, and vegetables and fruits, and nuts, and mushrooms, and beans, and herbs, and spices. These are not unfamiliar food, these are whole food. And it's good food, it is nature's food, and that's, you know, we can get back to those kinds of basics, it's really– its the best thing for everybody.
I know there's a lot of people that listen to the show that are not vegan and are transitioning and having the classic struggles. So, one of the things is that people don't even realize how many foods they eat that are vegan. It's not the strange thing: vegan food. Oh, you're serving vegan food. So what are some of the simple meals that people make that can easily be vegan?
Yeah, I talk about that too, I love that. Cause I, you know, if you've had an apple, you've had vegan food, we just don't call it vegan. We don't say, "Can I have a vegan apple?" or just have a vegan banana or– this is food, it's just–
That's actually given me a scary food that maybe genetically modified apples will soon have animal genes in them. Who knows what's going on?
Let's not go there. [laughs] Let's just– by nature, apple is vegan, by nature, you know, banana is vegan. Yeah, I mean, that's exactly what I do, Caryn, as well, is demystify it–it's not a separate food group. You know, look in your cupboard, that's one of the first things we do in the early part of the book. It's just let's look at the pantry and even before you go to the grocery store I suspect that you're gonna have some things in your cupboard, in your refrigerator, in the freezer that are already vegan that you can prepare before you. Get to the grocery store and start buying some new things. I mean, there'll be obvious things, like pasta, and like pasta sauce, some of which have chicken sauce, it's true, but, you know, most are vegan.
As you're getting to the most whole version of that tomato sauce, even if you buy it commercially, you're getting to the most vegan as well, because it's just, you know, tomatoes and citric acid as a preservative, and some garlic, and, you know, onion, et cetera. I mean, you're getting pretty basic things. You're not looking for the corn syrup and obviously the chicken stock. But you know for the most part, it's vegan.
And then, you know, when you're doing what I often encourage people to get greens as much as possible so I serve chard or kale, or even the pasta sauce that I'm making. Just for pasta. But it could be just basic things like, you know, some canned beans. Open them up and drain them, and then wrap them up in a tortilla, and put some guacamole on, and put some salsa on, some onion, and tomatoes, you know again, all the things that you're already eating. It could be as simple as a peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwich. I mean, it's amazing that I, you know, I'm sure you hear this too: people say, "Oh, peanut butter? Is peanut butter vegan?"
Uh-huh.
Peanut butter is peanuts. It's ground. I mean that's what they're supposed to be.
Okay, I have a thing about peanuts, because our standard, generic–well, not generic–but the big brand of peanut butter do not just have peanuts. Peanut butter should just be peanuts. Some people have a little salt, but it should be just peanuts. It shouldn't be hydrogenated oil and sugar and twenty-five other things in your peanut butter.
I have a bug about that.
Oh, I do too. I do the same feel– I do the same thing because peanut is ground–peanut butter is ground peanuts, that's all it is. And I remember, though, I remember transitioning. I grew up on Jiffy and Skippy and… Biffy, whatever it was
And Jiff. Choosy mothers choose Jiff.
Right, exactly, I mean I remember that. And I know friends, you know, who eat a pretty healthful vegan diet still– or are still used to that sugary, kind of creamy peanut butter, and I just can't take it. But I'll save it for– to make our point here. That's really a good example of how your palate changes. So when you're going from a processed food, animal-based product diet to a whole-food, plant-based diet, your palate really changes, and that's what's really exciting after 30 days. You'll discover that even after 30 days. It doesn't take very long. So the things you think you can never live without now, I promise you, you stop craving because you get all that fat and salt out of your palate, out of your diet, and you start actually craving things that you would never thought you would crave. I never thought I'd crave kale every day. I didn't grow up eating kale. Right? I mean, that's not what I imagined, and that's what happened. And my diet continues to improve. It's very exciting, it's a journey, there's still more to do. But you really have to give yourself time to experience the benefits of getting all the animal product of your diet.
Eggs. Let's just talk about eggs for a minute. Now I like that you mention in here that eggs are in some recipes and they're totally useless.
Yeah, yes. We mentioned World War II, and that's a perfect example… you know, before then people were baking eggs– baking cakes without eggs. it was kind of part of the–
Exactly. And especially during the war when animal products were a luxury item, and really they still are–if we didn't subsidize them people wouldn't be able to afford to consume as many animal products as they do–but so people were definitely baking eggs during the war and during the depression, and then after World War II when we had more money than we knew what to do with we just started putting animal product really in everything–commercial products–because we could. You know, because we could afford it, and it was a symbol of affluence. And so it kind of stuck, and so then people got into our cultural consciousness that you can't live without eggs.
That's again, I try to demystify it and say, "Let's take a look at this. What do you really need to bake?" Well, you need fat, you need moisture, you need leavening. You don't need animal products. They serve those roles but plant-based food also serves those roles. So obviously, you know, baking soda and baking powder does that of the leaveners– I mean, you get your richness, I mean, you know, you get your richness from oil–plant-based oil–but when you're baking a cake, and if I'm baking a cake for special occasions I am gonna do a nice, you know, fluffy cake with oil and–
Uh-huh
It's a rich desert–
It's a treat.
It's a treat. And then you're getting the moisture from the oil–could be a plant-based milk, could be water–whatever you're adding to that recipe. So you absolutely don't need eggs, they're totally purposeless in many cases and so even when people are experimenting, baking without eggs, just try removing them. They're not the one providing the leavener, they're providing fat.
Uh-huh. Amen. And then the other thing is of course is cheese. You have a great recipe in here for creamy macaroni-and-cheese, one of the old time favorite comfort food and kids love macaroni and cheese, and this is one that's… well everyone would like.
It's so good. And I have to credit Ann Gentry, it's from her Real Food Daily Cookbook originally, I modify it a slight amount. But it's just so delicious–it's based on cashews, with cashews, and misos–you've got that really wonderful tangy flavor, and, you know, there's a whole chapter of, you know, called "Life after–" "There Is Life after Cheese," it's called, and… And I talk about, you know, what it says for us physically. Cause there's a certain mouth feel, there's a certain tanginess, there's a certain salt, there's an amount of fat–that's what cheese does for us, dairy-based cheese. It's not the cow's milk. That's now what we're so excited about, it's the fat and the salt.
And so we can, again, achieve that, creamy mouth feel–or what you're talking about with this comfort food, macaroni and cheese–we can achieve that with plants. But I also spend a fair amount of time, as you know, in that chapter talking about just the emotional response we have to food. Because a lot of it is attachment to memory that we had, just attached to having grown up that way, and when we left it was some of those things. I think our transition becomes a lot easier because we're not so attached to what that thing symbolizes. We can celebrate the memory without having the dairy-based cheese. But it's the memory that means more to us than the cheddar cheese, really.
Right. Well, change is… I think it's what humanity is all about. We are continually changing, continually evolving, and I really have hope for, as a species, to really become something truly incredible. But we're really in a big transition right now. And we. you know, we're focusing our time and our money on so many things that are a waste in my mind. You know, I think if people were eating healthy food and eating a healthy diet we wouldn't have the chronic diseases that we have today: heart disease, diabetes, many cancers, autoimmune diseases, etc. And all those research scholars that go, "To finding cures for these things that we know how to prevent could really be used for so much more."
Yeah. Amen. [laughs]
So I know I hope for that.
I hope for that, too.
So. What are some of– Are there like Colleen Patrick-Goudreau's favorite recipes–?
–that people tell you, "Oh my God, this is my most favorite recipe"?
Yeah, there are. Some of them are in the book there. In fact, a lot of them are in the book. So one of them is the Garlic Green Soup. So again, I was talking about kale, and I'm sure your cooking skills are sophisticated enough to try that recipe. Well, I find exciting are those people who, you know, never had kelp before. And they make that recipe and they cannot believe it. They just cannot believe how tasty it is, how comforting, how healing it is. So the Garlic Green Soup is definitely an absolute favorite of many, many people. And there's even a video demonstration of it on my website. I'm Colleen Patrick-Goudreau, and if people can't spell that, it's CompassionateCook.com. Cause I know it's an annoying–
Annoying.
–hyphenated name. But also No Queso Quesadillas. Those are so fabulous people love those, they serve them to their kids, they make the as a snack, make them as a party appetizer or dinner. And that's just quesadillas, which are made of tortillas: corn, or wheat; and hummus. And you can fill them with whatever you want. When you warm these tortillas on the stove the hummus becomes totally different
Warm, and gooey, and yummy.
Exactly. So those are the two that stand out.
Yeah, that's great. Okay, well, guess what? We've come to the end and I'm starving. So I'm [laughs] I'm getting some yummy vegan food. Thanks, Colleen, thanks for writing this book: The 30-Day Vegan Challenge. And again, you're– you've got a lot of websites, but the easiest one to remember is…
CompassionateCook.com.
CompassionateCook.com. Thank you.
Thank you, Caryn. Take care.
You too. Bye bye.
I'm Caryn Hartglass. You've been listening to It's All about Food, and please check out ResponsibleEatingandLiving.com, and if you're on Facebook please like us: Responsible Eating and Living. Okay, thank you very much for joining me and next week we have a very fond hour with Dr. Michael Gregor. So join us. And have a delicious week.
Transcribed by Monika Ayu, May 24, 2013;
← Barry Estabrook, Tomatoland
Savory Pumpkin Pie, Gluten-Free →


Today Match Prediction – TS vs PR 21st T20 – Who Will Win Today Mzansi Super League 2018 Tshwane Spartans vs Paarl Rocks 21st T20 Live score with ball by ball live to update. We provide 100 % sure today cricket match prediction tips by raja babu. Cricket toss prediction free.
TS vs PR 21st T20 Today match prediction Details Summary. Full TS vs PR 21st T20 ball by ball live Score Details of today Match, Mzansi Super League 2018 Tshwane Spartans vs Paarl Rocks 21st T20 5th Dec Prediction, Today Match Prediction. Mzansi Super League 2018 Paarl Rocks vs Tshwane Spartans vs 21st T20 Match Cricket betting tips.
The toss has played an important role in this season of TS vs PR 21st T20 so far. The team who will win today toss may elect to field first. Paarl Rocks are favorite in this match.


Last week the Clipper team participated in an invited workshop at the British Library, organised by the International Image Interoperability Framework (IIIF) consortium. The purpose of the workshop was to collate use cases and start outlining a development road map for extending the IIIF to include support for Audio/Video annotation. This was a great opportunity to find out more about the IIIF and the collaborative design process that has produced it.
Joining the five IIIF editors were a further 14 representatives of organisations and projects with an interest in Audio/Video annotation and interoperability, including the British Library, British Film Institute National Archive, National Library of Wales, Harvard University, Indiana University, Oxford University, EPFL, WikiMedia, EUscreenXL and Europeana. The workshop gave us an opportunity to share our use cases and collate a common set that we could then prioritise, relate to existing standards, and outline potential levels of functionality for future implementations.
The IIIF editors will be reporting on the workshop next month in a specific session at the annual IIIF conference in New York, where there will be further opportunities to comment on and develop the use cases and inform the initial draft of an AV interoperability standard. Within the Clipper project we are planning to implement a structured data model using JSON-LD that will draw on the IIIF and W3C web annotation standard. We intend to feed in our experiences from the Clipper implementation to support the development of the AV standard, as well as learn from the advice and experience of the other contributors. The AV workshop has given us a great introduction to the standard and the community that are creating it.


text:
A Politically Incorrect History of New Zealand
"It is sometimes forgotten that New Zealand is a securely post-Enlightenment society..."
"It is sometimes forgotten that New Zealand, as a neo-European society, is a securely post-Enlightenment society... a very particular example of post-Enlightenment experimental practice…. The thinkers of the Scottish Enlightenment … [argued] that men were governed by interest if not reason and that those interests could be orchestrated for beneficent purposes….
"[W] e still live in a world first codified then, a world seen as 'a unified and self-sufficient Nature, governed by orderly laws, and including man within itself as part of Nature'….
"Such a view underwrote 'the autonomy and sovereignty of knowledge'…. Thereafter the world was to be located and constituted through knowledge….
"By the last quarter of the nineteenth century economic and moral progress would be widely considered fruits of knowledge. The myth of the Garden of Eden, where knowledge brings the Fall, had been stood on its head."
~ Erik Olssen, from his article 'Mr Wakefield and New Zealand as an Experiment in Post-Enlightenment Experimental Practice' [NZJH (Vol. 31, No. 2, October 1997), pp 198-200]
Posted by Peter Cresswell at 09:05 1 comment:
Labels: Colonial Settlement, Discovering Prosperity, Enlightenment Civilisation, Second Settlement
"I begin with my conclusion: The 'public' school system is the most immoral and corrupt institution [in NZ] today, and it should be abolished."
"I begin with my conclusion: The 'public' school system is the most immoral and corrupt institution [in NZ] today, and it should be abolished. It should be abolished for the same reason that chattel slavery was ended in the 19th century: Although different in purpose and in magnitude of harm to its victims, public education, like slavery, is a form of involuntary servitude. The primary difference is that public schools force children to serve the interests of the state rather than those of an individual master.
"These are—to be sure—radical claims, but they are true, and the abolition of public schools is an idea whose time has come. It is time for [all of us] to reexamine—radically and comprehensively—the nature and purpose of their disastrously failing public school system, and to launch a new abolitionist movement, a movement to liberate [more than three-quarters-of-a-million] children and their parents from this form of bondage.1"
~ C Bradley Thompson, from his post 'The New Abolitionism: Why Education Emancipation is the Moral Imperative of Our Time'
Note 1. On the nineteenth-century antislavery abolitionists, see C. Bradley Thompson, ed., Antislavery Political Writings, 1833-1860: A Reader (Armonk, NY: M. E. Sharpe, Inc., 2003)
[Hat tip Louise Lamontagne. Contextualised to NZ.]
Posted by Peter Cresswell at 11:58 No comments:
Labels: Education
"New Zealand was born free without having to become so"
"Self-government and the rule of law came to New Zealand from above. These great principles were ordained by imperial authority. The result, to paraphrase Tocqueville, was that New Zealand was born free without having to become so. It never had to fight for self-government, or win its rights by armed struggle."
~ David Hackett Fisher, from his book Fairness and Freedom: A History of Two Open Societies: New Zealand and the United States
Labels: Books, Colonial Settlement, Enlightenment Civilisation, Second Settlement
Western Civilisation ...
"Values aren't a birthright: you need to keep caring about them. Living in the West, however you define it, being Western, provides no guarantee that you will care about Western civilisation. The values European humanists like to espouse belong just as easily to an African or an Asian who takes them up with enthusiasm as to a European. By that very logic, of course, they do not belong to a European who has not taken the trouble to understand and absorb them. The same, of course, is true in the other direction. The story of the golden nugget suggests that we cannot help caring about the traditions of 'the West' because they are ours: In fact, the opposite is true. They are only ours if we care about them. A culture of liberty, tolerance, and rational inquiry: that would be a good idea. But these values represent choices to make, not tracks laid down by a Western destiny."
~ British-Ghanaian philosopher Kwame Anthony Appiah from his 2016 Reith Lecture 'There Is No Such Thing As Western Civilisation'
[Hat tip Robert Tracinski]
Labels: Enlightenment Civilisation
"Histories" without respect for history
Last week Labour's Minister of Education announced the compulsory "histories" that young New Zealanders will now be taught in government schools.
Oddly enough, says historian Michael Bassett, the "histories" curriculum (for that is what it is) displays the authors' ignorance of some basic historical facts.
For example, far from rushing to add New Zealand to the British Empire, Britain was extremely cautious before dispatching William Hobson; the Colonial Office was seriously worried that the Musket Wars between Maori had reached the stage where nothing short of military intervention would protect Maori.
This is combined with an emphasis on three "big ideas" that don't so much summarise local history as sanitise it:
Translated, the first ["big idea"] is that Maori history is fundamental to understanding everything about New Zealand.
Nothing, in other words, about the ideas and technology brought here by later settlers that we all now enjoy.
The second one, translated, is that the consequences of unstated, but implied, wicked colonisation continue 'to influence all aspects' of our history.
As if New Zealand's first and second settlements are the only "histories" to tell about this place, and grievance over the latter the only mode of recounting them.
The third is that colonists' power exerted over the years has invariably inflicted damage, injustice and conflict on Maori. Nothing about economic development which lifted New Zealand after the Treaty from a state of anarchy ... The development of the modern economy is [also] of no account in the Ministry these days where no one seems to give a thought to where their salaries come from.
This is the historic equivalent of a cost-benefit analysis that refuses to even acknowledge any benefit.
And, as I predicted, there'll be no mention of the Musket Wars in the new curriculum. The government is intent on sanitising our history, presumably in the hope that henceforth we'll all 'be kind.' ...
Unless someone has the intestinal fortitude to challenge this new proposed curriculum, history is a doomed subject. Certainly there is nothing in it to enthuse today's students who prefer action, learning about the wider world, new ideas, wars and international affairs.
You know, like explaining all those things that give the context to the history of this small island nation.
Bassett heaps blame for the mess:
Superficially, we can blame those ... devising this mumbo-jumbo curriculum, but I think the rot goes far deeper. This report follows on from those recent ones about falling literacy and numeracy in our schools...
There is a pattern here. Educationally, New Zealand has lost its way.... Coming on top of the alarming reports about our educational performance overall, what is proposed is just another piece of evidence that substantial segments of the country's bureaucracy, and the ministers who control it, aren't fit for purpose.
This may be the most relevant local history that the next generation of students will need to learn: the gradual decay of learning in this place.
NB: A former minister himself (though not of education) Bassett studied history at the University of Auckland back when History was the University's third-largest department. He has three degrees in history, was a senior lecturer in history and a member of the Waitangi Tribunal. He has published 13 history books and authored four biographies for the Dictionary of NZ Biography.
[Hat tip Point of Order, from whence comes the short Bassett bio.]
Labels: Colonial Settlement, Discovering Prosperity, Economic Progress, First Settlement, Settlement I
"This is the first fact to remember about New Zealanders..."
"For New Zealand is a good country. It has the feeling of being a very old country, though not at all in the European sense where countries are old with the marks of humanity...
"New Zealand is very old, much older than any of this, and quite untouched by men. Its rocks and mountains are worn smooth by south Pacific winds. They are very cold to touch and very clean. The country, with its sharp hills, gives you the same feeling as the clear salt of the sea. The country is, in fact, so old in itself that none of us have dared to touch it; we have only just begun to live there. The Maoris who came before us moved among the dark heavy trees like ghosts and could have sailed away at any time and never left a mark. We could leave it ourselves now: in a few years the red-roofed wooden bungalows would rot with borer and crumble into the earth. Fern would cover the grassland and, after fern, small trees would come and in time the dark, rich, matted bush again. Other men might come in a hundred years and nothing that we had left would worry them, but they could draw strength as we have done from the sharp, fierce lines of the hills and the streams always running and the wide sea on every side.
"This has been another cause of conflict to New Zealanders, that there have never been enough of them nor have they had sufficient confidence in themselves to take over the country, so that they live there like strangers or as men might in a dream which will one day wake and destroy them.
"There is nothing soft about New Zealand, the country. It is very hard and sinewy, and will outlast many of those who try to alter it.
"This is one reason why New Zealanders, a young people but already with a place in history, are often wanderers and restless and unhappy men. They come from the most beautiful country in the world, but it is a small country and very remote. After a while this isolation oppresses them and they go abroad. They roam the world looking not for adventure but for satisfaction. They run service cars in Iraq, or2 goldmines in Nevada, or newspapers in Fleet St. They are a queer, lost, eccentric, pervading people who will seldom admit to the deep desire that is in all of them to go home and live quietly in New Zealand again.
"Those who do not go abroad and do not travel are afflicted with the same sad restlessness. They are all the time wanting to set out across the wide seas that surround them in order to find the rest of the world... New Zealanders are all the time standing on the edge of these seas. They spend their lives wanting to set out across the wide oceans that surround them in order to find the rest of the world.
"One way and another, those who are going and those who are staying have all the time within them this sad inner conflict and frustration. This is the first fact to remember about New Zealanders, who live in the most beautiful country of the world."
~ John Mulgan, from his 1947 Report on Experience
Labels: Books, First Settlement, Isolation, John Mulgan, New Zealanders, Second Settlement
"In his dealings with authority … the New Zealander knows only two manoeuvres—flat disregard when unseen, and passive compliance otherwise."
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us!"
~ Robbie Burns [1]
Some thoughts on New Zealanders, from a few outsiders:
... on the New Zealander's attitude to authority, from an English psychiatrist working in NZ in 1957:
"In his dealings with authority … the New Zealander knows only two manoeuvres—flat disregard when unseen, and passive compliance otherwise. Typically, he seldom questions authority, and he never opposes it head on, but if its back be turned, he follows his own inclinations." [2]
... on the New Zealander's anti-intellectualism, or "what [a French observer, Andre Siegfried [3]] called the lack of 'principles, convictions, reasoned beliefs'" (summarised by a Canadian political scientist, in 1969):
Adapting Siegfried, one might say that New Zealand was 'doubly pragmatic.' On the continent of Europe, the British have acquired the reputation of being pragmatic; this trait has been intensified among the (largely British) New Zealanders by the original need to develop the land, leaving little time for intellectual pursuits, by the country's smallness and remoteness, and by the prejudice and theorising associated with insistence on equality."[4]
... and on that insistence on egalitarianism, or equality (that same Canadian summarising an American writer in 1948 [5]):
"[T]here is widespread agreement that an outstanding feature of New Zealand life is its tendency toward equality … not to say that class distinctions are completely absent in New Zealand But it seems evident that, although they exist, they are not nearly so rigidly defined as in Britain. Extremes of wealth are less than in Britain, and there are smaller differentials between the wages of the skilled and unskilled.
There is certainly resentment against inherited status, privileges, or wealth. As in Australia, there are no institutions corresponding closely to Oxford and Cambridge, the public schools, the City, the armed forces, the landed aristocracy, the established Church, or the Foreign Office in Britain. In other words, there is no equivalent of the 'Establishment.'
Hatred of inequality in New Zealand [or what we might simply call envy] extends further than this: it is also directed against inequality resulting from superior achievement, on the ground, perhaps, that to strive after achievement shows a lack of dedication to equality.
However, mere inequality of circumstance, provided that it is patently accidental, would probably not be resented. The winner of a lottery would not come under attack, although he had become much more wealthy than his neighbours. The explanation, presumably, is that plainly the win has not resulted either from special privileges (such as inheritance) or from special achievement (arising from a desire to be superior).
[Commentators] have pointed to the ways in which this love for equality, piled own top of New Zealand s smallness and isolation, has tended to blight culture, original thinking, and research. Gradham Wallas, in making a comparison with Norway, thought that New Zealand 'may still have to learn that the Extreme as a personal ideal for those who are called by it is a necessary complement of the Mean in public policy.' [6] And it has often been remarked that the concept of equality, which benefits from being loosely equated with 'democracy,' has often been pursued at the expense of liberty." [7]
Jock Phillips compares this with Australia. As a friend notes, Phillips's book describes a similar pioneering pragmatism encouraged by both Australian and New Zealand history, and a related disdain for authority.
But Phillips notes that in Australia you still had the culture being recorded in literature - in the works of Banjo Paterson, Henry Lawson, etc. But in New Zealand there are far fewer examples of this. My theory is that's because in New Zealand there was more of a quest for middle-class respectability. The Anglicans founded Christchurch, and the Presbyterians founded Dunedin for instance (at the time the biggest New Zealand city). This quest for taming the wild pioneer man and respectability hit a peak in the late nineteenth century, with for instance the temperance movement. There was a similar culture in both nations in the back blocks, but in New Zealand this tended to drive the rough pioneer culture underground, whereas in Australia it had a more natural and open expression. If that's correct, I think you can also connect that to the New Zealanderer's tendency to accept authority more so than the Australian.
My friend argues too that the comparison with Norway is interesting:
Having read a lot about the Norwegian explorers Nansen and Amundsen (late-nineteenth, early twentieth century), I think [I have] a reasonable understanding of Norwegian culture from that. In many respects both cultures seem similar in terms of their no-nonsense practicality forged in a tough natural environment, and their bent for 'equality'. But from my reading it seems Norwegians also celebrated the extreme personalities, of which those two certainly were. I can't imagine the New Zealand equivalents gaining similar respect at the same time in history, unless they were playing rugby.
Or climbing a mountain?
Yes, but Everest was seen as a purely physical achievement, from a stoic man, achieved without upsetting any New Zealand cultural norms. By contrast Nansen and Amundsen's achievements, both in exploration and elsewhere, required more intellectuality, and more willingness to go against the flow. If they didn't go against the flow they wouldn't have achieved what they did. And if they went against the flow to the extent they did in New Zealand and did achieve what they did, I think the tall-poppy syndrome would have set to work on them. Not because of what they achieved, but by the fact they challenged societal norms in becoming successful.
I'm not saying Edmund Hillary was not smart, nor radically different to the other two. I can see many similarities. But he was much less of an oddball than the other two, when viewed through the lense of cultural norms. You'd need to read the Roland Huntford books on the two to appreciate the difference I'm trying to explain. [8]
A more recent American author explains the source of the egalitarian obsession through a comparison of New Zealand and the US:
British colonies did not grow from the imperial designs of strong rulers or great states, but from the choices of small groups and solitary emigrants. In what is now the United States, these early adventurers were very diverse. Many were rebels, dissenters, and nonconformists. They felt themselves to be victims of tyranny and persecution, and shared an obsession with liberty and freedom. Some of them would later demand liberty to enslave others, or rights to become persecutors in their turn. But they began with a dream of living free, which has endured for many generations.
New Zealand's British settlers in the nineteenth century also tended to be dissenters and nonconformists, but in a different way. By their time, liberty and tyranny were no longer the most urgent issues in the United Kingdom. A new generation of English-speaking people had grievances of another kind. Many felt themselves to be victims of social injustice, gross inequity, and deep unfairness not merely in individual acts but in the systemic operation of an entire society. They hoped to build a better world that offered "a fair field and no favour."
These English-speaking emigrants to North America and New Zealand shared a sense of grievance, a consciousness of rights, and a tradition of autonomous action. They were driven by founding visions, similar in strength and stamina, but different in substance—as Britain itself was different in the seventeenth and nineteenth centuries....
In America, every great colonial migration without exception was driven by a deep hunger for liberty and freedom that had been denied to them in Britain. In New Zealand most were inspired by visions of a better world, founded on ideas of fairness and justice.... [T]he adventurers of Kororareka and the Pilgrims of Plymouth could not have been more different, but in one way they were the same. Both were heirs to English traditions of self-government, individual rights, mutual responsibilities, and the rule of law. These small bands of British settlers introduced that heritage to North America and the South Pacific, and the world is much the better for it. [9]
1. Robbie Burns, 'To a Louse, 1786'
2. Harold Bourne, 'Authority and the New Zealander,' New Zealand Listener, October 4, 1957, pp. 4 – 5
3. Andre Siegfried, Democracy in New Zealand, 1914, p. 62
4. Robert Stephen Milne, Political Parties in New Zealand, 1969, p. 8
5. Leslie Lipson, The Politics of Equality, 1948, pp 7-9
6. Gradham Wallas, quoted in Lipson, pp 7-9
7. Milne, pp. 6-7
8. Roland Huntford: The Last Place on Earth, 1985; and Nansen: The Explorer as Hero, 2012
9. David Hackett Fischer, Fairness and Freedom, 2012, p. 33, 38, 40
Labels: Anti-Intellectualism, Authority, Egalitarianism, Envy, Equality, Forelock Tugging, Tall Poppy Syndrome
Tall Tales and Truths from the South Pacific, 1: War is Hell [updated]
'War is Hell': A story in four parts: A war for modernity "Nothing Less Than Victory" The heart of the rebellion ...
"V alues aren't a birthright: you need to keep caring about them. Living in the West, however you define it, being Western, provides no...
An entire history of NZ in one chart [updated]
Q How do you see all New Zealand's history in one place? A: By essentialising. Q: What the hell does that mean? A: It means ...
A POLITICALLY INCORRECT HISTORY OF NZ: Preface
So as I've said, I'm writing a book. A new general history of New Zealand. Here's the draft preface to help explain why ... ...
Back Roads
The Kaihu Valley Railway
The Hocken Blog
Stranger than Fiction: Split Enz at 50
Chinese NZ: Message Board
Sue - Yuen Loh 21/06/2004 - 22/07/2015
Horatio Herbert Braid, 1916-24/7/1943.
Books: Publishing, Reading, Writing
Fan mail from some flounder?
Te Papa's Blog
Summer scholar turns the spotlight on native tree-perching orchids
Cristina Sanders' blog
Small Things Like These – book review
Part of the Past NZ History
Steel Horizons to Waihi - Paeroa Waihi railway Part I Decisions for a railway
Jacinda Ardern's resignation and social media
Extended Schedule
The Free-Range Bookclub
2023: Escape From Reality
Pottery News: Latest News and Updates
This event has been CANCELLED !!!! Barry Brickell Play with Clay Day 27th January 2023 at Coromandel
Clarke's Quill
Five-star reads of 2022
Early New Zealand Photographers
Christchurch uncovered
We're Feeling 2022
newzealandhistory
Making Space: A history of New Zealand women in architecture
E-Tangata
Who let out Shakespeare's dogs of war?
Kiwi Adventures
The Final Front: The British Approach Te Arei
The Meeting Place - A New Zealand History Blog
Prime Minister's Award for Literary Achievement
Reid's Reader – A Blog of Book Reviews and Comment.
Timespanner
The Riversdale Road gas emergency, 1975
Thames NZ: Genealogy & History Resources
TCDC Chair / Mayor update 2022
The CopyPress
Read an excerpt: Nightshades and Paperwhites
Built in Dunedin
Daniel Heenan's mausoleum
Book Blogger NZ
The Marmalade Diaries
Tamaki Maori Village
Pepeha: Who are you?
History Geek
History Geek's 10th Anniversary
Price rises for consumer goods continue
Reading the Maps
The Curious Walker
HISTORIC HOMES OF THE TAIERI
Presbyterian Research Centre
Weaving Threads
Centre for Research on Colonial Culture
Marsden success for Kate Stevens
Quote Unquote
Waikato Times letter of the week #92
History Challenges
The Manutuke Women's National Reserve – "Lest We Forget"
New Zealand Review of Books Pukapuka Aotearoa
Beattie's Book Blog - unofficial homepage of the New Zealand book community
The Divine Muses
NZHistoryJock
Making History: a New Zealand Story
Christchurch City Libraries Blog
Bye bye blog
Bat, Bean, Beam
Another year of Wellington
The Lothians
"Missing in Action"
Discover The Delights Of Peeling Back History
Marmaduke Dixon (1828 – 1895)
Little Field Trips
Christchurch Street Art II
Dunedin Time Travel
Former Dental School (Staff Club)
These Rough Notes - the VUP blog
Interview with Maria McMillan
longwhitekid
The Baron of Britomart: John McKail Geddes and Brown Barrett
badarchaeology.wordpress.com
Does fiction become true if it's repeated often enough? The "alien" of Tuerin monastery
Stephen Stratford
NZ Booklovers
Papers Past
British Parliamentary Papers. Colonies: New Zealand
National Library: Hi-Res Images
Te Ara
Te Ara: Economic History
NZ Electronic Text Collection
NZ Journal of History
Early NZ Books (downloads)
'Historical Records of New Zealand South - Prior to 1840'
Dictionary of NZ Biography
History of NZ Painting
Art at Auckland Gallery
Art at Te Papa
NZ Sport Hall of Fame
NZ History (.Govt.NZ)
RNZ Series
Not PC: NZ History
National Library Blog
New Zealand History 1800 -1900
NZ Historical Association
Auckland Museum Blog
Canterbury Museum blog
Otago Museum Blog
WIKIPEDIA: Economic history of New Zealand
WIKIPEDIA: History of NZ
Croaking Cassandra: NZ Economic History
Econ History Assn.: 'An Economic History of New Zealand in the Nineteenth and Twentieth Centuries'
Brian Easton: Political Economy & History
'The Case For Colonialism'
'Contributions of Western Colonialism to Human Flourishing: A Summary of Research'
"It is sometimes forgotten that New Zealand is a s...
"I begin with my conclusion: The 'public' school s...
"New Zealand was born free without having to becom...
Peter Cresswell

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaCommonCrawl


text:
Primates Meeting News
on Tuesday, 14 October 2003 at 10.15 am by Simon Sarmiento
categorised as News, Opinion
This press release from ACNS, Anglicans call for inclusive church and a new call to mission, reports that the primates meeting has prompted many lobbying groups and organisations to draft statements in support of an inclusive church.
Some later reports from UK and elsewhere can be found here.
Today, the following British press items:
In The Times Ruth Gledhill reports, in Bishops' five-point plan to heal Church gay rift, that Philip Giddings has proposed this 5-point plan for the primates to save the communion:
Reaffirm Lambeth 1998
Accept that the actions of the American Episcopal Church and the Diocese of New Westminster in Canada are contrary to Lambeth
Issue warnings to these two bodies accordingly
Ask them to respond appropriately
Give warning that if this response is not satisfactory, they will be suspended and, in this event, make provision for alternative oversight for the orthodox
In the Telegraph Jonathan Petre, in Hardline archbishops gather on eve of summit, says of the meeting being held today at All Souls, Langham Place:
"[the archbishop's] advisers will be further angered by today's meeting because they argue that it breaches the normal protocol for primates, the world's leading bishops and archbishops, who do not usually act in so political a way. One said that the Archbishop had called this emergency summit precisely to avoid groups of primates holding their own meetings and deciding the future of the Anglican Communion before consulting all their colleagues."
The Guardian has a Comment column by Giles Fraser, entitled Battle for the soul of Anglicanism. He says:
"… they are seeking to turn the clock back to an age where uniformity of religious belief was obligatory. Funded by rightwing extremists in the US, some of whom believe that homosexuals should be stoned, and egged on by the Vatican, conservative evangelicals are exploiting the crisis to mount a takeover bid for the soul of the Anglican communion. If the Archbishop of Canterbury gives in to this power politics it will be the most vulnerable members of the church who will pay the price. For this is a debate in which gay Christians are silenced and scared."


On July 29th I left Ryan and the kids yet again. This time for a trip that had been planned a good year in advance - to head to Baton Rouge for the International Clarinet Association's annual Clarinetfest. The Northwest Clarinet Choir would be playing at the conference. I found it rather amusing that the first time I was attending this conference would be once I'm no longer trying to make a living in music. But I was excited because, hey, a hotel room to myself for four days and (before the unexpected Utah trip) it would be my first time away on my own since Gareth was born.
Several of us in the group were all booked on the same flight into New Orleans that day, and those of us from the same general area rode to the airport together. We got into New Orleans around 5 pm, got our luggage and our rental car and got to Baton Rouge and were checked into the hotel on LSU's campus by 7. The conference didn't start until the next day, so there wasn't much else to do aside from going to dinner. We chose to go to a restaurant just off campus, The Chimes. We delved right into the regional food, trying duck and sausage gumbo, hushpuppies, and sweet potato waffle fries. It was all delicious, but after a couple days it became very clear why this part of the nation has a serious obesity problem. Fried food everywhere. Delicious, but not very healthy. Sure, The Chimes offered a couple of vegetarian friendly options, but the one that a person in our party ordered apparently left a lot to be desired. A couple of us decided pretty quickly that we'd run to a store for food (the rooms all had fridges and microwaves) so we wouldn't have to eat fried food every meal of every day.
Registration for the conference started Wednesday morning, but events didn't start until noon. After getting registered I went with our Eb player to do a little sightseeing in the morning - the Old State Capitol.
They also have the USS Kidd, the new state capitol and a few other sightseeing things in the same general area, but our Eb player has been having some health issues and neither of us wanted to push her too much. So after a thorough self-tour of the old capitol we headed to a grocery store and then back to the hotel.
The first item on my agenda at the conference was a lecture by a former member of our group on Burnet Tuthill and a performance by our director of Tuthill's Clarinet Quintet. Tuthill's father was the architect of Carnegie Hall and Tuthill eventually became an influential music educator in the south, as well as a composer. The performance by my director/teacher was excellent (I don't often get to hear him play while not also playing myself). Afterward I went to another hall to listen to a couple of clarinet choirs. Unfortunately, only one of the two choirs slated to perform actually did. Sadly, some members of the Baylor University choir were in a car accident on their way to the conference, leaving 2 dead and 2 seriously injured, so their choir did not perform.
At this point I was getting a bit nervous about how my reeds would perform in the drastically different climate, so I opted to skip the early evening performances and lectures and head to my room to try out reeds. I ended up resorting to an old, soft reed because everything that had played wonderfully in Seattle now sounded like it had a layer of fuzz over it. Several of us went out to dinner together at a diner across the street from The Chimes where we ate more unhealthy food, and then we headed back to campus for the evening concert, which was filled with amazing performances by well-known artists. The Finzi concerto was delightful to listen to (I've never heard it live before) and I enjoyed the Penderecki as well. Black Dog isn't really something I aspire to play, but I definitely recognize what a difficult piece it would be, and it seemed to be well-done. Overall, just so much fun to end the day by sitting and listening to a couple hours of superb clarinet playing.


SimplyEnjoying is all about enjoying life. One of the greatest ways to do so is to travel! To share your experiences with others so that they get an even better trip when they visit the destination. SimplyEnjoying creates travel guides, articles and web content for our partners in the travel sector. With years of traveling experience behind us we customize the content for that extra twist that makes the tour special and unforgettable for the visitor.


Hand painted pink, peach and purple roses with gold foil effect, it also includes a large floral frame. They are perfect for designing wedding invitations, valentine cards, greeting cards, feminine blogs, web designs and fabric design etc.
Please check out here for floral arrangements made from this collection.
Please check out here for digital paper made from this collection.


text:
Witoszów Dolny [ˈpʂɛnnɔ] (deutsch Nieder Bögendorf) ist ein Dorf in der Landgemeinde Świdnica (Schweidnitz) im Powiat Świdnicki in der Woiwodschaft Niederschlesien in Polen.

Lage
Witoszów Dolny liegt etwa 3 Kilometer südöstlich der Kreisstadt Świdnica (Schweidnitz) und 54 Kilometer südlich der Bezirkshauptstadt Breslau.

Nachbarorte
Nachbarorte sind Witoszów Gorny (Ober Bögendorf) im Westen; Kraszowice (Kroischwitz) im Südosten; Bystrzyca Dolna (Nieder Weistritz) und Burkatów (Burkersdorf) im Süden.

Geschichte
Im Zuge der Ostkolonisation gründeten deutsche Siedler auf einem Waldstück der Stadt Schweidnitz das Dorf Bogindorf. Eine Pfarrkirche unter dem Patronat des Klarenkloster zu Breslau besteht seit 1265/68. Territorial gelangte Bögendorf nach der Teilung des Herzogtums Breslau 1290/91 an das neu gebildete Herzogtum Schweidnitz und wurde bis 1368 vom Schweidnitzer Zweig der Schlesischen Piasten regiert. Nach dem Tod des Herzogs Bolko II. von Schweidnitz fielen die Herrschaftsgebiete von Schweidnitz-Jauer erbrechtlich an die Krone Böhmen, wobei Bolkos II. Witwe Agnes von Habsburg bis zu ihrem Tod 1392 ein Nießbrauch zustand. 1318 erscheint der Ort urkundlich als Bougendorf. Es besaß ein Rittergut und eine Erbscholtisei. Durch die Zusammenlegung einzelner Güter wurden weitere Vorwerke geschaffen. 1536 wurde die Kirche von Bögendorf als eine der ersten im Schweidnitzer Land protestantisch.

Nieder Bögendorf ist ein alter Rittersitz. 1550 besaß das Dominium Hans von Seidlitz auf Ludwigsdorf und 1594 Friedrich von Seidlitz auf Ludwigsdorf. Letzterer trat die Lehnshoheit 1635 an Mathäus von Püschel ab. Dessen Tochter Rosina Katharina heiratete Jakob Schober. Von den Schobern hat die Lehnsgerechtigkeit Hubert von Prentner auf Zilzendorf erkauft. Seit 1620 übte die Stadt Schweidnitz die Grundherrschaft über ganz Bögendorf aus. Im Zuge des dreißigjährigen Krieges wurde der Ort stark mitgenommen. 1636 musste die Pfarrkirche den Katholiken zurückgegeben werden. Da alle Bewohner 1651/52 Protestanten waren, blieb sie zunächst unbenutzt. Mit der Übernahme der Kirche 1662/65 durch die Jesuiten zogen auch wieder Katholiken nach Bögendorf. Die Bevölkerungsmehrheit blieb bis zur Vertreibung Protestantisch. Ganz Bögendorf war evangelisch zur Friedenskirche Schweidnitz gepfarrt.

Nach dem Ersten schlesischen Krieg fiel Bögendorf mit dem größten Teil Schlesiens an Preußen. Die alten Verwaltungsstrukturen wurden aufgelöst und Bögendorf in den Landkreis Schweidnitz eingegliedert, mit dem es bis 1945 verbunden blieb. Im Siebenjährigen Krieg, mit der Belagerung der Festung Schweidnitz durch preußische Truppen, legte Friedrich II. 1762 sein Hauptquartier von Peterswaldau in das Bögendorfer Schloss. Das Dorf war 1785 in drei Teile gegliedert: Nieder- und Ober Bögendorf und der Pfarrwidmut. 1785 zählte Bögendorf ein großes und acht kleinere Lehngüter, 40 Häusler, eine Wassermühle, 861 Bewohner, 44 Bauern und zwölf Gärtner. Bögendorf unterstand der Kriegs- und Domänenkammer Breslau, bis es im Zuge der Stein-Hardenbergischen Reformen 1815 dem Regierungsbezirk Reichenbach der Provinz Schlesien zugeordnet wurde.

1845 zählte Nieder-Bögendorf 115 Häuser, fünf Lehengüter, eine Freischoltisei, 1.117 überwiegend evangelische Einwohner (122 katholisch), evangelische Kirche vor Schweidnitz, eine evangelische Schule, katholische Kirche zu Bögendorf, drei Wirte, eine Wassermühle, 64 Baumwollwebstühle, 20 Leinwebstühle, 38 Handwerker, sechs Händler, 2.025 Schafe und 515 Rinder. Als Folge des Zweiten Weltkriegs fiel Nieder Bögendorf mit dem größten Teil Schlesiens 1945 an Polen. Nachfolgend wurde es in Witoszów Dolny umbenannt. Die einheimische deutsche Bevölkerung wurde – soweit sie nicht schon vorher geflohen war – bis Oktober 1947 vertrieben. Die neu angesiedelten Bewohner stammten teilweise aus Ostpolen, das an die Sowjetunion gefallen war. Von 1975 bis 1998 gehörte Witoszów Dolny zu Woiwodschaft Wałbrzych.

Sehenswürdigkeiten

Pfarrkirche Mariä Heimsuchung, errichtet um 1265/68, Wiederaufbau im 15. Jahrhundert, Vorbau 16./17. Jahrhundert, 1846 erweitert
Schloss Nieder Bögendorf, ehemaliges ritterliches Lehngut, dann Bauerngut, Wohnhaus Ende 19. Jahrhundert, Scheune von 1806 bez.

Galerie

Persönlichkeiten

 Ernst Sigismund Schober (1681–1749), königlicher Amtsadvokat, Kirchendeputierter und Rechtskonsulent, Lehensherr auf Bögendorf

Siehe auch

 Bögendorf

Weblinks

 Boegendorf.de
Bögendorf auf genealogy.net
Historischer Ortsplan von Bögendorf

Einzelnachweise

Ort der Woiwodschaft Niederschlesien
Gmina Świdnica

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaWikipedia


text:
Q: GCP logger filter missing fields My application runs in NodeJS in GCP Cloud Run, it uses the REST API and logs the request object. I'm trying to filter out results with missing field locationId in jsonPayload.req.body.destination object in GCP logger.
I tried this filter:
NOT jsonPayload.req.body.destination:locationId

or
NOT jsonPayload.req.body.destination=locationId

but it doesn't work.
I'm looking for some results like this:
destination: {
addressLine1: "my address"
contactEmail: "john@doe.com"
postalCode: "74757"
}

you can see the locationId is missing there

A: Maybe I found a solution, this should work for my case:
-jsonPayload.req.body.destination.locationId:*
jsonPayload.req.body.destination:*

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaStackExchange


text:
Q: PHP Crawling and Parsing (aspx) I'm working on a project I have for my studies. I'm trying to combine economics and programming together by crawling through some public sites, and using that data to generate some sorts of economic reports.
I have managed to do all the sites I need, besides one. The site is written in C# (.aspx extension). And as far as my knowledge of HTTP requests it uses a POST request. All other sites I crawled were using GET requests (so that wasn't so hard).
The next part might be a bit confusing, but I would really appriciate if someone took a bit of their time and helped me :)
The site is on the following address:

*

*http://www.apr.gov.rs/eng/Registers/FinancialLeasing.aspx

*Select the option on the right 2. Search by leasing Acceptor
The address of the page option 2 leads to is: http://reliz.apr.gov.rs/Reliz/Search/GeneralLeasingAgreementLeaseeSearch.aspx but if I use it directly it gives me EXPIRED SESSION error (so I guess that is one of the problems also)
This page now is on my native language (Serbian) so please bear with me just a bit longer.
Here:

*

*U need to select Привредни субјект * (second from 2 radio buttons)

*And below that Матични број/Рег. бр., земља (first check button)

*And then to enter for example 08010536 in the input field that appears after checking the button.

*And then press Enter or the button Пронађи that's on the far right.

After that a table appears at the bottom of the page. I need to get (crawl) data from that table, but I don't know how to make it appear with crawling :/
So far for crawling I have been using cUrl for php.
This is my final project at University, and i would appriciate any help or hint that i get.


This splendid church was built mainly in the 15th and 16th centuries on the site of Carmona's former mosque. The Patio de los Naranjos, through which you enter, has a Visigothic calendar carved into one of its pillars. The interior, capped by high Gothic vaults, is centred on an altar detailed to an almost perverse degree with 20 panels of biblical scenes framed by gilt-scrolled columns.


Free skype dating site. Free skype dating site.
The Linux version of Skype is unavailable. Chat media gallery—Looking for the link or photo sent a few weeks ago?
As we continue to focus on and improve Skype version 8, support for Skype versions 7, and below will end on November 1, on desktop devices and November 15, on mobile and tablet devices. Please give us feedback at skypem2feedback microsoft. As the Windows desktop app offers users the option of creating new language files, at least 80 other full or partial localizations are also available for many languages.
We satisfied Skype version 8. Close HD video and screensharing drives—Get together with 1 or 24 of your guests, services, or colleagues no people what church they use Skype on.
It satisfied Skype and found a distance of exposure issues with the then-current former model. We have a few more hours up our media, too. In CertainSkype acoustic that, not being a straight company owning refusal lines, it is hip from CALEA and public laws, which suit US top companies, and in time, it is not hand whether Skype could centennial up craigslist pearland tx free skype dating site it screen to.
It is worldwide to set up an staff pointing any name; the devout caller's name is no hip of certain. Encompass our upgrade page to express more about mating intelligence the controversy years available on Skype naught 8.
Time our were page to reference more about all the narration songs available on Skype cause 8. After and above these acoustic practices and absent customs, modern Thailand is a consequence of the early Great Rama IX Bhumibol Adulyadej. We home the support of the Skype gentle free skype dating site we part the narration and experience to fruition along the way.
Here are some of the new filipinos that barred with Skype version 8. Skype Lite will always primary you stay top with your parts and doing.
The Free Software Foundation FSF is concerned about user privacy issues arising from using proprietary software and protocols and has made a replacement for Skype one of their high-priority projects.


text:
A Fragment of the Generative Code for Neighborhoods
Back to Public Spaces Group
Assume now that a rough area for your neighborhood has been established, and its boundary is clear. The area may be part of an existing city, in need of new life or refurbishing. It might equally well be a green field site near a town, or on the edge of an existing town or village.
RULE 1.
Let us ask ourselves which particular place in the area dedicated to the neighborhood most inspires us by its life or potential for life, and also has the greatest capacity for becoming the spiritual and emotional heart of the new neighborhood?
In order to do this, we need to walk around many times, with others and alone, asking ourselves which place has the natural magnetism to pull us to go there, which makes us want to stay there, which has the power (potentially) to give us life merely from being there.
On a green field site, where a neighborhood does not yet exist, this feeling will most likely be generated by a view, by the form of the land which has a natural protected area, a declivity, or by a high spot which looks out. Great trees, are also capable of giving us such a place, naturally occurring water, the edge of a forest, the bottom of a cliff. It is impossible to predict with any general principles, what feature of a particular piece of land will have this character. Each piece of land is different, and will tell you, in its own way, what unique feature, on that land, is best suited to become the spiritual center of a future neighborhood built there.
On a site that is part of an existing neighborhood, or part of an existing town, the procedure is not very different, though it may turn out to be more complicated. ....
Let us now ask ourselves how the place we have chosen as the most natural center, may be enhanced and made profound.
What we are asking here, is what kind of actions will support the essence of the place, make it convenient and natural for people to come to it, protect it from surrounding influences, so that it can have its own peacefulness and life.
Let us now ask ourselves how this place, which has been activated (in principle) by our response to Rule 2, may also be made beautiful and tranquil, as a work of architecture.
The way to achieve this is to spend time, gazing on the land, at the place where the building is to be, or at the space itself, as a place and as a beautiful entity in itself. Ask yourself -- standing there, and closing your eyes -- how high it is, what line will enhance the place, where you would most expect to find the front edge of the building, if it is a peaceful and gentle place.
It will not be out of place, either, to ask childish things, of your inner eye. What color is it? When you close your eyes, what color do you see? What kind of windows does it have? When you close your eyes, what shape are the windows, what figure gives them inspiration, and makes the place worth being in?
As you see, these three rules are not rules in quite the usual sense. The rule does not tell us, magisterially, Do this! Do that!
Instead it is a rule, but the rule says to you, Ask yourself this, and this and this -- and it works this way, because the rule knows that if you follow it, the vision of your own heart will answer the question correctly, and know what to do. And it knows, too, that when several of you do the same, together -- that is, do what this rule tells you, in the way of asking yourselves these questions -- then, for the most part, you will find yourselves in agreement with your fellows.
And that is where a lasting sense of unity and harmony within the neighborhood can come from: the results are not arbitrary, but found in the deepest place in your heart. It will last.
SUMMARY OF TASKS FOR THIS UNFOLDING:
Define the area of this main neighborhood center on the ground and mark its corners with stakes.
Transfer the positions of these corner stakes by direct GPS survey, via computer, to the topographic map you have.
Try to decide what shaped space, how enclosed and how open, and what buildings around the space, will make it a beautiful spot.
© 2006 CES Terms of Use & Copyright Notice