text:
Cuba Gooding Jr. and David Oyelowo rediscover 'Red Tails' history
Editor's note: David Oyelowo plays Joe "Lightning" Little in the film "Red Tails." He was raised in England and Nigeria and trained at the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art. He was the first black actor to play a Shakespearean monarch at the Royal Shakespeare Company, and appeared in "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" and "The Help."
By David Oyelowo, Special to CNN
(CNN) - My journey toward the hallowed ground of Moton Field, where the brave Tuskegee Airmen learned to fly, began with me receiving a script called "Red Tails" in the winter of 2008. I had never heard of the Tuskegee Airmen, nor was I aware of their adopted nickname "Red Tails," but the story as told in the script blew me away.
As I always do before auditioning for a role, I went about my research and was amazed and ashamed that I knew nothing of their immense contribution to the war effort in the 1940s. Thankfully I got the role and was then able to exercise my newfound obsession to do these men right by participating in telling their story.
We shot the film in Prague and Croatia in 2009 and did reshoots in 2010 and 2011 to really nail the complex dogfights depicted in the movie. The process of bringing the film to fruition was a mammoth collaborative process that involved a deep commitment from the actors, our director, Anthony Hemingway, the genius of the folks at Industrial Light and Magic, and the comforting overseeing eyes of both Rick McCallum, our producer, and George Lucas, who had been pregnant with the project for more than 20 years.
Cut to this past Monday, just a few days before this nerve-wracking Friday, the day on which the film will be released. I and my fellow actors Nate Parker, Terrence Howard and Elijah Kelley find ourselves at Tuskegee University as we draw to the close of an extensive press tour that has taken us from L.A. to New York and most places in between.
Tuskegee, Alabama, is a tiny southern town. The population is around 12,000 and apart from the University, there seems little else to report. Like all growth though, it starts with a seed and this tiny place is where the Tuskegee experiment, as it was called, grew into the Red Tails whose undeniable heroics helped lead to the desegregation of the military, which led to the desegregation of the South and on and on. This tiny place.
We arrived on campus to a reception worthy of the Beatles. It is rare for African-Americans to have heroes to cheer for and identify with on the big screen. Having been born and raised in the UK, the notion of a "historically black college" is alien to me, but it seems they are born out of necessity; a necessity that I personally hope will not outlast my lifetime. For now, it was incredible to walk amongst these students who should be and are so proud to be associated with the Red Tails. The campus throbbed with pride and excitement that a little slice of Hollywood had come to town. Singer Lionel Richie and radio host, Tom Joyner, both alumni of the university, were also on hand as yet another reminder of TU's legacy of excellence.
During this visit, I saw buildings, still standing, that Booker T. Washington had encouraged his students to erect out of bricks they made, nails they forged, and wood they cut over a hundred years ago and I saw facilities built with money George Washington Carver was generously able to donate thanks to the proceeds from his numerous discoveries and inventions.
It became clear to me that it was this same spirit of excellence that helped the Tuskegee Airmen achieve their exemplary World War II record in spite of limited resources and the odds stacked against them, and that same spirit of excellence is present on that campus till this day.
It just so happened that our visit coincided with Martin Luther King Jr. Day, so we attended a church service in which we were beautifully reminded of how things once were, how far America had come and how far is left to go.
My hopes for America were greatly boosted by being around these high achieving black students, who, like Dr. King and the, hopefully soon to be very famous, Tuskegee Airmen, did not let social inequities deter them from aspiring to be the best of the best.
Dr. Roscoe Brown, who was one of the original Tuskegee Airmen and a consultant on the film, expressed the hope that our film will remind young people that it is "cool to be smart."
The Red Tails caught that notion early in the 1940s; I hope young people everywhere today catch it too.
The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of David Oyelowo.
Posted by Cameo George -- CNN
Filed under: Black in America • Education • Pop culture • Race • What we think • Who we are
This movie is pure hollywood garbage. There were NO Aces in the red tails yet we glamorize these guys. There were over 100 Aces in WWII yet they were white. Ever hear of Richard Bong? No movie about him yet he ALONE shot down 40 enemy planes. Oops, he was white, no movie. Did you know that the red tails lost more of their OWN planes than they shot down? No? Not in the movie was it. I bet you heard in the movie that they never lost a plane they were escorting. Not true. Let's don't let FACTS get in the way of a movie script. The reality is, the red tails were average pilots. Yes, they overcame a lot to do what they did. They did NOT however, compete against the BEST this country had in order to get a slot as a fighter pilot. They competed against themselves. Kind of like Bruce Jenner in the 70's competing in the Special Olympics. We all know who would have won. The German Air Force was already on its heels when they entered the war. These guys were average at best. Wonder why they have a movie (2 actually) about them? PCism at its worst.
No I have never heard of Richard Bong, but does that mean that he was not a WWII Ace. I have possibly never heard of many of the white aces of WWII that you have, but I would not slander them or insult their families by publicly stating that they did not exist or were the product of lies. Did you go to see the movie? What do you really know about the Tuskegee Airmen or any of the accomplishments of black members that participated, were P.O.W., M.I.A. or K.I.A. during WWii or any campaign? Are you a Veteran? Did you really mean what you posted? Or, ... forgive me I really do not know what to say to you. I just want you to know I respect your right to express your opinion, only when you do, kindly try to be a little more accurate.
Perhaps because I was "replying" My comments were not posted. "Red Tails" and the original movie "Tuskegee Airmen" starring Laurence Fishburn, Cuba Gooding, Jr. and Malcolm Jamal Warner are portrayed by Actors, who entertain, but General Benjamin O. Davis, Lt. Col. Charles "A-Train" (The name of his aircraft and a popular hit song of the '40's) along with Lee Archer (the only recorded Ace, with 5 confirmed "kills") And Roscoe, Brown, Wenndell O. Pruitt, Flt. Officer (flying instructor) James "Muscles" Wright, and thousands of other pilots AND ground crew, men AND women, Black and White. Were and still are the stars and real life heroes of the TUSKEGEE AIRMEN.
This movie should not be critiqued by its modern day technology, (cgi or live action) but on the content of the story being told. A reminder that this particular group; like the 800 women (all black) of the 6888th Central Postal Batallion in France, the 555th (Triple Nickel) Parachute Btn. and the 761st Tank unit of General "Patton's Army". Seaman Dorie Miller {reported to have been) the first casualty (KIA) of WWII.
There was another hollywood movie you based on members of the Tuskegee Airman. It is called 'HART'S WAR". Did you know that? I didn't, until I watched the movie. Now I have a copy of the video.
Please continue to tell your friends to see the movie. If you want to know the full and most accurated account. Get the book "Black Knights" the story of the Tuskegee Airmen by Lynn Homan and Thomas Reilly. in the appendix ia a roster of the Name, Rank, and Serial of all the pilots graduating, the year and type of plane they flew. Btw. to the person who posted that they were only bomber pilots who did not participate in the combat. They were trained in 1944 (I believe it was the 477th) and were too late, but not exclude. The TA's we are talking about were SE Single Engine pilots, engaged in the experiment from 1942 (first graduating class July 12, my 7th birthday)
In my (integrated thanks to the legacy of the Tuskegee Airmen) service, I became a C-5A LOADMASTER, C-131 Cargo Airlifter Loadmaster) and was stationed In North Africa (Morocco) and at Selfridge, AFB where the original Tuskegee Airmen were stationed.
MrId
My Great Uncle flew a B24 from Libya in Operation Tidal Wave. Now there is something to make a movie out of.....
Jammaster
J slack is still posting his hateful lies. It must be recess time at the asylum.
This guy is just angry TROLL, begging desperately for attention from his mom's garage (he admitted this).
Every service man / woman who puts his life on the line for our freedoms is a hero. Only cowards who NEVER SERVED their country feel otherwise.
I will feed this TROLL no longer.
This movie is inspiring and is worth seeing.
jlacke
For those who would like the source of my "hateful lies" (aka "hate-facts"), read this:
weblogs.dailypress.com/news/local/military/blog/Ten_Myths_About_the_Tuskegee_Airmen.pdf
Written by Dr. Daniel Haulman, historian for the US Air Force, with official records cited. You'll see that in every measurable category, the TA pilots were outperformed by the most similar groups. Fine to respect them for serving, and for overcoming prejudice, but no reason to believe the many lies that have followed them. Unfortunately, the TA pilots themselves have been some of the biggest promoters of these falsehoods (often inaccurately disparaging the service of other units in the process).
I don't have anything but respect for the brave soldiers of whom the movie is about; my question is in regards to the overall story that this movie is based on. Hasn't it already been done before? The movie "The Tuskegee Airmen" came out in 1995?
Edwin H Kribbs
My Father was a service adviser for Curtis Wright in North Africa during part of WWII. He told me that the black pilots crash/wrecked more planes than they shot down.
People during your fathers time also felt that Blacks lacked the intelligence to become pilots. The TA proved them wrong.
The TA pilots shot down 0.66 enemy aircraft for every one of their own planes lost – in other words, they lost more than they shot down. The other groups in the 15th, flying the same missions with the same planes over the same time period, shot down 2.49 (the 31st), 2.08 (the 52nd), and 2.22 (the 325th) for each plane they lost. These groups all shot down more than they lost. The source, again, is Dr. Daniel Haulman, Air Force historian, relying on official US Military records.
"Hate-facts" make jammaster angry.
The goal of the mission of the 332nd pursuit fighter group was not to kill or be killed, seek glory and honor as you suppose, The mission and sole purpose was to PROTECT AND DEFEND.
The mission of the 332nd was no different from the other groups of the 15th Air Force to whom they are being compared. Your claim that this is an unfair comparison is incorrect; its the closest comparison there can be – same time period, same location, same missions/orders, same technique, same planes.
wwiifan
I love wwii history. Check this out buyandsellwwii
SMSUSAF
The 332 AEW 506 AEG Tuskegee is still active I was the Suerintendent in Iraq in 2010 the best Sq in the Air Force
Did you mention they are flying RED TAIL F-16's?
smalltowner
everyone says that they didn't know of the red tails till a movie came about....but still some of the facts are still missing. I am not here to step on anyones toes, but please see the link that i post. it too, has some facts that people didn't know about this "small town" just up the road from me. I have the upmost respect for these men. they did our country proud! I encourage you in reading the post:http://www.rantoulpress.com/news/people/2012-01-17/red-tails-release-motion-picture-look-back-chanute-connection-tuskegee-airmen
youinspiredaily
So inspirational! Please check out http://wp.me/29mFl for more inspiration!
There is an earlier version of the remarkable story of the Tuskegee airmen starring Laurence Fishbourne. Parents need to tell their children about these men as well as others who fought for this country during WWII. I would hope that the story of these men would be part of Black History Month as observed in the public schools.
Did anybody see the original movie with Laurence Fishburne??
Yeah. that was a great movie. I don't understand why it isn't being mentioned in any of the interviews. Cuba Gooding Jr. was in that one, and all I keep hearing is that 'Red Tails' is the first time that this story has been told.
It was really good. Like you I keep waiting on them to acknowledge that film was even made.
Cuba Gooding Jr. was on ESPN last week and he mentioned the 1995 version of the movie.
John Henson
"The Tuskegee Airmen" debuted in 1995 and chronicled the beginnings of this phenomenal air wing and the struggles it experienced attempting to gain acceptance in the U.S. Army Air Corp. It was an exceptional movie and starred Mr. Fishbourne and Malcolm-Jamal Warner
digarth
I saw the original with Fishborn & it was excellent! Hope this one is as good.
Stars learn that our nation had segregated troops. We performed medical and other experiments on blacks and other minority troops (without knowledge). With all that, we were told the Nazi's were racists. Oh, and that Hitler never congratulated Jesse Owens – hardly the case. In fact Jesse was snubbed by his president, FDR.
Oh, history is full of surprises when you do the research.
Lets just put the record straight. All who faught in the war are heroes by my account. These airmen however earn even more respect because:
1. They faught against an Enemy that would kill them before taking them prisoner since they were Black. According to the Germans, Blacks were an Inferior Race.
2. They knew the second they left allied air space, the probability of surviving was less than a white pilot.
3. They faught and died for many people on our side that treated them like second class soldiers.
I just pray the movie depicts them properly and gives them the credit these veterans truly deserve.
God Bless ALL Veterans and Active Duty.
You said it right when you said they are ALL heroes. But not one more than another. Every life is as valuable as the other. True, the Tuskegee Airmen did have to battle through some additional obstacles just to be able to fly and fight, but what about the Jews who fought for the Allies? Don't you think them being captured by the Germans wasn't as unpleasant a thought?
There were also many "white" men who fought in WWII right beside African Americans without complaint.
They all deserve our respect and admiration. Placing a value on color, whether white, black, or other, is simply perpetuating the problem that we still face here in the U.S. Stop identifying color and start identifying people. After all, that is what we all are.
Please spell fought correctly. And you need not capitalize enemy or inferior race (just as you don't capitalize white). Also, the phrase is "second-class citizens" not soldiers. ,
A Human Being
The Tuskegee Airmen are the BEST!!! Yes I am a white guy. I have seen adds for this move, which I want to see, but with all of the computer generated scenes, I feel like I am watching the kids playing a PS3 game. The Tuskegee Airmen deserve better then this.
I would love to meet on of those boys someday.
BSGONE52
Don't you mean "men"?
I would love to meet on of those boys.
The banter on this site is disgraceful. These airmen were honorable and true American Heros! That said, Hollywood felt the need to beef up the movie and not let it stand on the historical facts. They also slammed the white pilots, indicating that only the blacks had the courage to stick with the bombers. Any person who had the guts to strap themselves into a plane and fly into that mess is a true heror regardless of what anyone might think! Regardless, these airmen won 96 Distinguished flying Crosses and there should have been at least a few Medal of Honors among them.
Rightster
The real heroes were the 8th Air Force Bomber pilots who did the daylight missions while the British did the less dangerous night time sorties.
Pat Augustine
Lets be clear here. The British did the night time missions because their aircraft was more limited. It is not a reflection of British courage, but rather a reflection of American technology. The B-17 and B-24 were more capable of surviving, and so the Generals in charge used their resources in the most likely to be successful manner.
Hot Dog One
I applaud these pilots and their bravery during Worl War II. What I have a problem with is hollywood, who feels they need to "modernize" the pilots' heroics by adding lines such as "now let's do something for the history books". Military pilots, whether past or present, don't ever do things for the "history books". Colonel Bullard also NEVER spoke back to a Brigadier General they way he did in the movie, or he would have been peeling potatoes. Period.
I saw this film this past Saturday...What an Awesome Movie. My Wife and I made a date out of it and loved what we saw on the screen. Lots of great battle scenes and the actors were great as well. They made us laugh and cry at the same time. Knowing a little of the history of the Redtails, this film is spot on. I only wish they filmed this movie here in The United States giving American's jobs and not the people of Eastern Europe. But it was a great film and I recommend it to all my friends and family and to every movie lover out there. Go see it.
So true, since The Tuskegee Airmen fought the war over here and not in Europe.
Yes, we know the war was fought in Europe, but we're talking about a reenactment. The actors have to sleep somewhere, eat, pay taxes, duties and everything else that it costs to make a movie, so it would have been nice if that money was spent in the United States.
The Tuskegee Airmen were an incredible group of men. Unfortunately, Hollywood didn't feel that this film could stand on the merits of their actual accomplishments, which were substantial! I was highly disappointed with the acting as well. At times, it was campy, cartoonish, and very amateurish. I didn't recognize all of the actors, but I did recognize some and they are better than that. Was entertaining, but could have been a whole lot more!
How can anyone ACT or portray the emotions and pathos of a being or event that they have never experienced or have access to? You should never have gone to see the movie based on Actors or Cinematography. Perhaps it would be a good idea to go and watch it again.
WisdomVS
Yes, it's true that Hollywood juiced up the story and it wasn't 100% correct. So, what movie has this not happened in? The fatc is, these men did exist and they played an important role in WW2. Blacks today need heroes, like whites needed John Wayne, etc. Everyone should salute these heroes and make them part of your history... no matter what color you are. Someday in the future we may once again need heroes, personally, I don't care what color they are.
I am PROUD to live in the town where these fine men were trained.WALTERBORO SC
ranthony
walterboro sc is a foul smelling waste poop hole that stinks of the rotting animal corpses that are slaughtered there daily and of the vast expanison of the sewage treatment plant that consumes just about 35% of the entire town not to mention the massive open landfill that also operates another large swath of the town on the north side...ohh yes a fine place indeed....
I have to say this is an inspiring story based on history, but the movie made it too Hollywood. Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan set a new standard for informing us about war and this simply doesn't do the history and sacrifices of the Tuskegee Airmen justice.
I can't watch this movie. . . Those god awful fake CGI planes defying the laws of physics (cartoonish!). I suppose we will never see a WW2 film again that uses actual planes. So much for the greatest generation. . . they will be missed.
That is because you do not know the history of the Original Tuskegee Airmen. They were skilled pilots, College graduates BEFORE the "Experience" You know nothing of the Pilot Instructors that taught them. If you recall in the Fishburne movie there was an instructor that had experience in the French Escodrille. and there were female pilots like Bessie Coleman who were excluded because they were black. As far as the skill of a tuskegee Airman, Charles Anderson the pilot with whom Mrs. Roosevelt flew; would pretedn he was asleep in the plane while the student was flying the aircraft.
George W
Where has everyone been? The Tuskegee Airmen have been honored over many years by the aviation community (yes, probably mostly white) at airshows and aviation events throughout the country. In many cases the original Tuskegee Airmen have been there to relate their stories first hand. Most of these comments show how uninformed and ignorant of the facts most people are. I can assure you the aviation community of all races have shown these airmen the respect they deserve long before they are now being honored in a movie.
RFrazierSr
George, unfortunately you're right. The problem is there is no real not in the history books about the Red Tails that is being taught in schools. Most people that go to these shows are from military families. Non military families don't go to the shows. I am from Pensacola, Florida, home of the Blue Angels. You would be surprised how many there have never seen them perform.
O'contraire, Get the book Black Knights by Lynn Holman and Thomas Reilly. in the appendix is a roster of all the graduates with their name, rank and serial numbers. and actuall discriptions of the actual combat missions over Italy and Rumania. Btw: out of the 1,000 pilots that flew with the 332nd from 43 to the end. Only 66 were KIA. I have met the Pilot that the movie depicts as a German P.O.W. He was there during the Great Escape, and in the book I mentioned is an self-drawn illustration of his egress from the aircraft as he parachuted to the ground. His name is Alexander Jefferson. There are perhaps 50-75 Original Tuskegee Airmen survivors ASK THEM about the history of the Red Tail Angels. Go on the internet and talk to the surviving Bomber Pilots and Crewmembers who are still seeking to thank those fighter escorts that sent the "fathers back home to their sons and daughters and the Husbands back home to their wives.".
Rick Hendricks
I had the honor of knowing Mr. Jim Plinton and COL Hannibal Cox, both Tuskeegee Airman. I haven't met finer gentlemen. Having known them...I was blessed. During the 1970's both became executives at Eastern Airlines and seemed to inspire everyone around them. I will never forget them.
klangster
the fact is they had a better record than their white counterparts despite the obstacles they had to overcome not surprising often people will push harder when there is more force against them. but the anger about this story is clearly not about the fact that movies distort the truth but a bunch racist right wingers whining about credit given to black heroes. Did you same people complain about the complete lie of a movie U51 when they took a British story and made the heroes American?
This claim is false and has been completely discredited. Official military records are the source:
War stories and especially movies are full exaggeration and some times outright lies bu you seem to want to discredit the men themselves you say repeatedly that they have no honor and point to a right wing blog to prove your point. The thing that should be celebrated about these men is that they were a large part in the humanization of a race of people that were fighting for their country despite the fact that is was an apartheid. Before them it was thought of as fact that black people could not fly airplanes, after their success the view of the abilities of all men in this country was forever changed but this makes you mad I wonder why?
The "right wing blog" lists official military records as its sources (you've committed another ad hominem attack). The facts in that blog are not in dispute by anyone with knowledge – even the TA historian has had no choice but to get on board. The TA pilots themselves were at first quite upset, and initially attempted to argue – but you can't argue with facts.
I don't respect the TA pilots because they claim that only they had the courage to stick close to the bombers and provide adequate protection while other units either fled (cowardly) or chased after enemy aircraft for personal glory (dereliction of duty). Not only is this claim 100% false, it inaccurately disparages the service of other units. There is no honor in this sort of behavior.
Andrew D
Give it a break you hate any one who is not of the past down dysfunctional belief of, my culture did it all, those days have long past you . Your stuck in the belief that your culture can do no wrong, and all others are beneath you. Your thinking is foul and depressed in a time long gone. Frankly I really belive your affraid of the changes happening in this world today so you retreat to the lies of the past, that the playing field was or is equal. So you see the truth really is not in you, your unable to even be truthful of the dysfunctions of your culture of the past , dragging the same garbbage in to the present in the hope of feeling, which is the lie you harbour within. sad but true
J lacke has been at this for DAYS, going from article to article posting hate about the TA. These guys won 96 distinguished crosses.
Hardly average.
Why don't you tell us how many were won by the other groups of the 15th AF over the same time period, to put it into context? For example, the Checker Tails (325th) won well over 100.
ginamero
What? Whose being disparaging? You do not make sense. Wonderful movie – took my boys and their friends at their request...they said it was the best movie ever. What on Earth are you talking about?
scroll down and read this page is full of angry attacks on the TA
just read the rest of the comments here
"Racist" is a pathetic ad hominem attack that has lost its effectiveness. We've reached the point that any statement that offends blacks, even a completely accurate and truthful statement, is considered "racist." Sorry, but the word has been expanded to the point of having no meaning.
Nonsense. To claim that racism does not exist and that black Americans are not still affected by it ignores the history of this country. I find arguments similar to yours nothing less than trying to wash ones hands of a crime. It's like telling a Jew to stop complaining about the Nazi's treatment of their community. It's an absurd viewpoint to take if you know your history.
J lack states that he has no respect for the TA. We don't care.
For DAYS he has been on a racist, hate filled rant about these brave American heroes. When called out on his misinformation and hate fueled posts, he plays the denial card.
These men proved that Black Americans were intelligent enough and brave enough to become fighter pilots.
As a group the President of the United States stated that they served with distinction and among other honors they won 96 distinguished flying crosses.
These are men every American has the right to be proud of, regardless of skin color.
For those whose only contribution to America are hate filled posts on the Internet (from their mom's garage) , we pity you.
Misinformation? I've repeatedly backed-up every single claim with actual facts, including comparisons to the other groups of the 15th Air Force. You've provided nothing other than ad hominem and straw man attacks, and a single statistic without providing that same statistic for comparison to other units. There is not a single metric one can point to (when actually comparing to other units) by which the claim can by made that the TA pilots were anything beyond adequate.
Can you honestly say that you have read any of the positive posts about this subject?
I've probably read every single post on this thread. And, prior to reading this story, I was clearly more knowledgeable than anyone else posting here. I'm not posting opinion; I'm posting facts – again, these are the actual mission logs and records from WWII. The claims of the TA pilots are not based in reality. The reason they've gotten away with lying (yes, lying) for so long is simple, and its playing out on this website. Speak the truth, get shouted down as "racist."
What FACTS (not hearsay) can you provide, including comparison to comparable units of the 15th AF, that show that the TA pilots outperformed other units in any way? There aren't any. The TA story is an outright lie, and I've repeatedly posted the information to demonstrate it. Every single claim made by the TA pilots to indicate their greatness is provably false. Every single claim they've made to disparage the performance of other groups in the 15th AF is provably false.
my original post should read some of their white counterparts
There is a very detailed breakdown of statistics and stories on the Tuskegee website. That is a far better examination of truth vs myths. The right wing blogs seek only to reduce the status of these brave soldiers. They should be ashamed.
I wish I could reply to all of the posters here.. this has been a stimulating experience for me. However let me once again recommend the book Black Knights by Lynn Homan and Thomas Reilly. and if you want to hear the story from the original men them selves I would recommend the video "Night Fighter's" If you cannot find it, email me; get a group together for a showing and I will try to bring it to you. reverend_logan@yahoo.com.
Where has he been every February? Wasn't this covered many times during Black History Month?
popejon
So you can only report black history on black history month? Why?
I'm in my mid 40's and remember learning about this in both my HS and college history classes. We skimmed the main points the same as any other subject...if this 'person' says it's not taught it's because HE didn't listen or pay attention...I remember it.
If you would've paid any attention to the beginning of the article where it tells you about the author, you would see that he grew up in England and Africa, so he was probably never taught about the Airmen since they don't have Black History Month and they don't learn about specific American units in different wars. So quit making assumptions when you didn't pay attention yourself.
ILikeRush
This is a racist movie.
Well, OBVIOUSLY, you like Rush. Now go outside and play like a good wittle boy.
Ah yes if one out of a thousand movies has a black cast, it must be racist.
ILike Rush
This is based on half truths and is a bunch of.
Rigel54
Well, I hate Rush (not just because he's a druggy moron, but mean and unfair as well), but you're right. This movie is a bunch of Hollywood fantasy drivel. The real story is amazing and glorious, a story of brave and capable men. Why turn it into a fictional caricature? I don't get it!
NoSwagLag
Also just another bit of history, the TA's (99th) where the first airwing in human combat history to induce a surrender of a opposing force via air power alone...Pantelleria. The air assault on the island began on 30 May 1943. The Italian population of 11,500 including the entire garrison. surrendered on 11 June 1943. Pilots of the 99th also once set a record for destroying five enemy aircraft in less than four minutes. And FYI here is there original combat record:
261 aircraft destroyed
148 aircraft damaged
15,533 sorties
1,578 missions
66 KIA
95 Distinguished Flying Crosses awarded
450 Pilots sent overseas.
(Thats a 4 to 1 kill ratio)
In regards to the "No Lost Bomber Accusation". This was not started by the TA themselves. On March 24 1945, during the war, the Chicago Defender said that no bomber escorted by the Tuskegee Airmen had ever been lost to enemy fire, under the headline: "332nd Flies Its 200th Mission Without Loss";the article was based on information supplied by the 15th Air Force. This was so the military could sell war bonds where stretching the true was common. A notable example is the Battle of Iwo Jima, They were saying that the island was conquered and the flag was raised in 5 days despite the battle going on for 35 days. However, losing ONLY 25 bombers is damn near super human during WWII in any case especially during the initial days of the campaign. There were hundreds of missions and nearly hundred bombers on each mission. If you do the math that less than a 1% loss rate. All of this stuff is public record too. Happy Learning
Out of context, one might assume that those are eye-popping stats. But compare them to the other units who flew similar missions over the same time period, particularly those who flew the same planes.
Its true that the TA pilots did not start the "no bomber lost" claim, but they have repeated it, and have objected to the record being set straight. Even the people commenting on this story are upset to see the facts brought to light. Its not clear where the other false claims originated, but it is clear from interviews and public appearances that the TA pilots have promoted them.
I don't care what anyone says. Black, White, Native American, whatever ... they were the greatest generation ever to come out of the US
That's because they worked together even though the country was extremely racially divided. They actually put country first. Its every man for himself today. We fought and won 2 wars at the same time on 2 fronts in a matter of 4 years back in WWII. Our biggest national threat now is dependance on foreign oil (that's the pentagons opinion, not Green Peace). Yet us all chipping in and conserving oil for the good of the country is considered un-American. How many sacrifices did the WWII generation make? Were they being un-American? Kind of puts things in perspective....
J Lane
Sigh...it is hurtful to see anyone running down ANY vet. There is alway "Hollywoodization" of any historical facts put to celluloid. The cold honest truth is that war is terrifying, and young men (And now increasingly women) die. And the deaths are horrific, unneccesary hard ends to lives that were too short. Take this movie for what it is, a movie based on facts. Just like "Band of Brothers"...there is always some poetic license taken. Get over it, and get over your hatred...
I served in the Tuskegee Airmen's wing in Iraq last year ... and great emphasis on learning our proud heritage was encouraged by our leadership. The Ta's legacy lives on! I enjoyed the movie, even with some minor "Hollywood" adjustments.
The adjustments aren't minor – claim of 0 lost to enemy aircraft vs. at least 25 is an outright lie. Claim to have invented the tactic of flying close to the bomber while other units disobeyed orders, or were too cowardly to do so, when the truth is all units in the 15th used this tactic is extremely dishonorable. Etc, etc. And the "distortions" did not originate in Hollywood – the TA pilots themselves have been repeating these claims for decades.
You really just hate black people. Please respond to my post bellow and prove me wrong. Read it and reply to it....
I don't know what's wrong with Popejohn, but the movie is wildly inaccurate, and insults the men it is based on. If those men themselves are putting forth the myth, they certainly can't be accused of modesty, but I can forgive them. We all like to live in the past sometimes, and cling to and expand past glories. Certainly their truth is glorious enough.
John in Raleigh
As a white southerner whose grandfather flew in WWII for the USMarines, I want to thank you for setting the record straight. Racism didnt end in 1964. People like you still exist. Until you devote similar energies to debunking the "myths" of white heroes, I will call you, with justification, an embarrassing relic of earlier times, and an example of how far we have yet to go.
My 10 year old was enthralled by this movie. He's now reading about the TA and WWII and asking questions about his Great grandfather's service. For that, I thank the makers of the movie, and WE ALL owe a an eternal debt to the men of Tuskegee.
Feel free to enlighten us as to comparable wild claims by other units that have stood for decades. Otherwise, your statement is empty rhetoric. As with others here, since you can't win the factual argument, you engage in pathetic ad hominem attacks. Your attempt to discredit the speaker rather than debate the facts speaks volumes.
The movie makes none of the claims you state. Your peculiar insistence on arguing with everyone here is proof enough of what motivates you. Washington did not cross the Dekaware in the front of a boat with a flag streaming behind him. The Boys of Pointe du Hoc did not face elite German troops. The torpedo bombers inthe battle of Midway didn't willingly fly to their deaths. They ran out of gas. But you know what? It doesn't matter. Athey were all heroes. As we're the Tuskegee Airmen. That you focus only n the black "myth" is highly telling.
Perhaps the reason all of the 15th Air Corp used that tactic was because the 332nd INITIATED it. Let's give credit where credit is due, regardless of who may receive it.
We have an old video at home called "The Tuskegee Airmen". I'm surprised nobody is referring to this first great story of these men. Cuba Gooding Jr is in this one as well. I LOVED it!!
Yes I've seen that on the History channel, recently in fact. I'm surprised everybody doesn't remember seeing or hearing of it since they played it to death only a few years ago. This will be the second version with the diference being (mostly) better actors and a much bigger effects budget. Not by any means a breakthrough movie since it is in fact a remake. (They can't change the story so there's no other way to describe it)
In the movie you refer to with Cuba Gooding, Jr. Laurence Fishburne played a composite of three TA's. I believe Cuba's character "A" was none other than Col. Charles "Chuck" Dryden whom I met personnally and have an autographed copy of the Book. In the movie Red Tails there were 100 men locked up behind the incident of the occupation of the Officer's Club. to which the NAACP had no small part. I also believe the assault that was mentioned as the precourser of creating the 332nd Fighter Group was the Pantelleria mission. Then home base for the segregated unit was Ramitelli.
Wow, a lot of white people people here that just hate anything that's not white and I say that as white man. Sad, just plain sad and pathetic....
Refusing to believe lies is hate?
NO, believing truth is false is hate.
Claim of no bombers lost when they actually lost 25. Claim of several Aces when they had none. Claim to have pioneered the tactic of staying close to bombers, and that other units lacked the courage to do so when this was actually standard procedure for the 15th Air Force. Claim to have been the best unit in WWII when they had the fewest aerial victories of all units who flew the same missions over the same time period with the same planes. Every single claim made by the TA pilots that sets them apart from other units is false. All of this is proven by official military records from WWII.
jlacke, you seem hell bent on proving the story of these black men are lies. You claim you are only concerned about the truth. Tell me, what group of white men are you just as passionately trying to prove are being portrayed as something they were not in the books and movies on American history? I'd like to hear it because there's many, many examples in American history of white guys living a lie. Here's a hint, just about every (but not all) war movie ever made. So where's all the lack of outrage there? please show us all those facts you dug up on white men living the lie just like you did on these black men.... Something tells me it does not exist so prove me wrong.
Inaccuracies are common in movies that are supposedly based in history. While this is annoying, the objection here, however, is that these inaccuracies did not come from this movie – they have been claimed for decades, even by some of the TA pilots themselves. Lying about your record in combat – claiming achievements that you didn't actually perform – is generally considered dishonorable. Jessica Lynch, for example, served in Iraq. The Bush administration pushed an inflated version of her story in an attempt to rally support for the war. She set the record straight.
Most war movies made are works of fiction, and do not claim otherwise. And again, the TA pilots' claims did not originate with this movie, so that really isn't the point. Tell me, what false claims from white units are you aware of? You are free to post them, but if that's your assertion, its not my job to do your research. The TA pilots' record stands on its own, and the facts are that they did not accomplish what they claim to. Anyone who returns from war with a collection of lies about achievements – especially when those lies call the honor of other servicemen into question – has no honor.
Chill, guys! The movie is wildly inaccurate. So was "Midway." So was "Pearl Harbor." They were pretty much fiction. The only truly accurate war movie I can remember is "Tora, Tora, Tora!" If you want history, read a book. This is just an action flick.
peekandseek
My mother and I saw the movie last night. It was a great movie. We are so proud of the Tuskegee Airmen. They are heros. And, will never be forgotten. Please go and see the movie tonight or tomorrow. Peace!
David Golding
Thanks to all of our men who ,fought in WWII and other wars, each of them faced the horrors of war with their lives, everyones contribution to our efforts should be appreciated by all. History is a funny thing and thank God we have progressed, why pick at incidentals, we lost a lot of people. Why shouldn't the TG airmen be proud, they did their jobs and the war was won, and we have moved forward I sincerely hope!
motowntom
Hail all those that fought to provide us with the freedom we enjoyed for 50 years, now that freedom is gone. I hope that my grandchildren will read about the hero's of the soon comming revolution. It is just so sad that everything they fought for is now only enjoyed by the big corperations and the 1% of the rich. We as Americans need to unite, black, white all races to take action to ensure the freedoms that these brave men and woman sacrificed so much for. How much do YOU have to lose?
You're being a bit ridiculous, Motown. I hate the ripoffs of big business as much as anyone, but to claim that our freedom is gone, when more of us are freer than at any time in history is nonsense. If the American people decided to, the rigged game would be over. Democracy is working, it's just that half or more of us are idiots.
Why does it list Cuba Gooding Jr at the top of this piece when it is all by David Oyelowo? Was it just to get more people to read it?
That's Hollywood.
Intruth23
Oh and jLackey. We need to set you straight on some of the facts. You imply that somehow the Tuskegee Airmen never faced any resistance from the USAAF and that somehow they were given assignments at forward positions.......UNTRUE.
FACTS: Despite their achievements and accomplishments, the 99th found continued resistance and prejudice in the Mediterranean. The CO of the 33rd Fighter Group, the air wing the 99th was attached to, Col. William Momyer, complained about the performance of the 99th FS, compared their combat record to White squadrons, alluded to lack of air discipline, and hinted at a lack of aggressiveness.
His comparisons overlooked the fact that the 99th DID NOT operate at the front, but was stationed hundreds of miles to the rear. Nor did he mention his exclusion of 99th FS pilots from briefing sessions. But in those days, Blacks were easy targets, and in September of 1943, TIME magazine ran an article that repeated Momyer's accusations. About all the pilots could do was perform their jobs perfectly, and answer their critics with deeds, not words. It's also interesting to note that the US Navy had NO African American fighter group. Sure the powers that be along with help from the very liberal Mrs Roosevelt wanted an all black fighter squadron. What;s wrong with that. But to suggests that there was no HARD RESISTANCE to the idea..........In the 1940s when Jim Crow was stil alive well........ is complete Lunacy!!
"You imply that somehow the Tuskegee Airmen never faced any resistance from the USAAF and that somehow they were given assignments at forward positions......." I dont imply this. I stated that the story has exaggerated racism; as if they forced their way into the war. Clearly they got approval from somewhere.
"The CO of the 33rd Fighter Group, the air wing the 99th was attached to, Col. William Momyer, complained about the performance of the 99th FS, compared their combat record to White squadrons, alluded to lack of air discipline, and hinted at a lack of aggressiveness." There are several fighter groups whose missions (time period and geographic location, as well as planes used) are nearly identical to the TAs. All of these groups outperformed the TAs.
In regards to the "No Lost Bomber Accusation". This was not started by the TA themselves. On March 24 1945, during the war, the Chicago Defender said that no bomber escorted by the Tuskegee Airmen had ever been lost to enemy fire, under the headline: "332nd Flies Its 200th Mission Without Loss";the article was based on information supplied by the 15th Air Force. This was so the military could sell war bonds where stretching the true was common. A notable example is the Battle of Iwo Jima, They were saying that the island was conquered and the flag was raised in 5 days despite the battle going on for 35 days. However, losing ONLY 25 bombers is damn near super human during WWII in any case especially during the initial days of the campaign. There were hundreds of missions and nearly hundred bombers on each mission. If you do the math that less than a 1% loss rate. All of this stuff is public record too. Happy Learning 🙂
J lack ois posting. Must be recess time at
You know jLackey it just kills white people like you to see such a highly decorated BLACK air group wih such an impeccable record like the Tuskegee air men get their dues. The FACT is they had the highest percentage of escorted bombers return home. UNMATCHED by most white fighter groups. And they have the Distinction of shooting down the first ME 262, German Jets during the war. No Doubt you are the typical racist they had to put up with in their day. The same ones who considered African Americans sub human, unintelligent and unable to handle complicated manchinery like a WWII fighter airplane let alone handle the pressures of air combat. Well....They made them look pretty s tupid. Average you say? Only in your mind!!
You can't have it both ways. If their lack of kills is due to limited forward placement, so is their limited bomber loss.
And no, TA pilots were not the first to shoot down ME 262s. At least 60 were shot down by other units first. An irrelevant statistic, really, as it is affected heavily by contact with said 262s. But again, the lies are annoying.
Cynthia V
The TA escorted the planes into Berlin during the Berlin Airlift – not an easy feat. And during this time they had
the distinction of not losing a single plane that they were escorting.
My husband and I had the extreme pleasure of knowing one of the original Tuskeegee Airmen; Major Frank Roberts, Ret. Frank was very proud of his military record as well he should have been. He was also proud to have had a family member fight in each war since the Revolutionary War. He was a kind man who knew how to be a true leader without having to raise his voice or stick out his chest.
It required an act of congress to make him an officer but he was already a gentleman.
The Berlin Airlift occurred after the war, beginning in 1948. You may be thinking of a 1945 assault on Berlin, in which the TA were participants but not the only escort unit (as is often claimed or implied). However, the TA's first bomber lost to enemy aircraft occurred on June 9, 1944.
factchecker
The Tuskegee Airmen were excellent pilots who deserve a great deal of praise, but they did lose bombers they were escorting, just like every other unit that flew escort duty. Movies are great for making history come alive for people who aren't otherwise interested in history, but it's important not to trust Hollywood "facts" in historical movies. It is also important to note that the Tuskegee Airmen themselves did not claim a perfect record, and the survivors have been vocal in trying to debunk this modern myth.
"Tuskegee Airmen themselves did not claim a perfect record, and the survivors have been vocal in trying to debunk this modern myth." – That's not exactly true. The story was never refuted by the Tuskegee Airmen, who had plenty of opportunities; and some even repeated it. Questions were not raised until 2006; up to that time they had ample opportunity to correct it.
Daniel Haulman, an Air Force historian, brought the truth to light, and was able to convince William Holton (historian for the TA). However, while Holton is associated with the TA, the TA pilots themselves were generally resistant.
For example, Russel Davis, President of TA Inc, had been promoting the lie. Even after the evidence, he claimed that perhaps those bombers had really been lost after other units replaced the TA. Carrol Woods claimed that, "they are trying to destroy our record," and asked, "what's the point now?" – His questions seems to imply knowledge of the truth, with a belief that the lie has stood long enough that it should be left alone.
Either way, some of these pilots knew the truth, and at best allowed the lie to be repeated so they could enjoy the glory.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-12-10-tuskegee-airmen_x.htm
Untrue jLackey, Roscoe Brown as early as 2002 said that they might have lost bombers. No one really considers the fact that many losses could have come from ground attack, which was almost impossible to defend from. However I noticed how know has really questioned the Air Forces findings on the subject. Seems it would satisfy many who hate the fact that this awesome air wing had such an impeccable record. But I tell you what, while we are on the subject of "debunking" the TA. Why don't we look into some of the records of the white pilots who claimed to be ACES. HMMMMMM wonder what we'll find there??
"Untrue jLackey, Roscoe Brown as early as 2002 said that they might have lost bombers. No one really considers the fact that many losses could have come from ground attack, which was almost impossible to defend from."
The claim is that they never lost a single bomber to enemy aircraft, which is untrue. There are 25 confirmed bombers lost to ENEMY AIRCRAFT. it was never disputed that they lost bombers to ground artillery.
Intruth, you seem to have an obsession with finding an improbable perfection in this unit. They were not perfect, no one is. Their record was not impeccable, few are. They were good, and their history is groundbreaking, but my trying to turn history into mythology you are doing them a disservice. They set out to be equal. They turned out to be, probably, above average.
Claim: the USAAF fought tooth and nail to keep them out. (Reality: Eleanor Roosevelt made this a pet project. It was going to happen no matter what they wanted.)
Claim: Once trained, the powers that be would not send them overseas because 'dey's raysiss' (Reality: the 99th squadron, the first of 4 squadrons in the 332nd group was deployed once trained to North Africa, and subsequently based in the forward most airfields available up to and including Tunisia in late '43)
Claim: The TA were issued the obsolete junk that the white pilots wouldn't fly. (Reality: They flew the P-40 Warhawk, which was the American front line single engine pursuit plane up until the P-47 Thunderbolt and P-51C and D came online, which was in Early '43. The first units to get them were in the 8th Air force operating out of England, which got priority, but the two wings that flew the P-40's in the 15th were issued the new aircraft within a month or two of each other in late '43)
Claim: They 'stuck' by the bombers when the white pilots would hot dog and chase the Germans, leaving the bombers to fend for themselves. (Reality: It was standard procedure to pursue the fighters when engaged. The thinking was, if you pursued them to their airfield, you could destroy them before they could land and refuel/reload. The bombers were also heavily armed and flew in a specific formation that maximized their defensive armament. Besides, if the standing order was to stay with the bombers, and the fighters flew off and a bomber group got shot up, there would be a lot of pilots court marshaled.)
KillAllNazis
Wow, and we all know what Elanor Roosevelt wants is the only thing that matters! lol. Moron.
What a moronic response. Nice facts. I knew the script would get re-written.
The story is that the First Lady was a strong supporter, who influenced the President, who as CIC would've had some say over the project. Clearly someone in a position of authority wanted them to succeed; if not, they never would've had the opportunity. You don't just walk onto an airfield and demand to be a pilot without getting arrested. They were recruited and trained with the goal of getting them into the air. Someone had to authorize the funding; their enlistment and promotions; gear, supplies, and equipment; use of planes and airfields; and eventually assignment into action.
Of course a FEW people wanted them to succeed, while MOST wanted them to fail.
The difference is, EVERY ONE (I'm sure including Elanor Roosevelt) wanted other pilots to succeed. :-/
Every body knows that already. Some people are just playing stupid to try to downgrade their accomplishments.
You know Lackey it just kills white people like you to see such a highly decorated BLACK air group wih such an impeccable record like the Tuskegee air men get their dues. The FACT is they had the highest percentage of escorted bombers return home. UNMATCHED by most white fighter groups. And they have the Distinction of shooting down the first ME 262, German Jets during the war. No Doubt you are the typical racist they had to put up with in their day. The same ones who considered African Americans sub human, unintelligent and unable to handle complicated manchinery like a WWII fighter airplane let alone handle the pressures of air combat. Well....They made them look pretty s tupid. Average you say? Only in your mind!!
TA Lt. Roscoe Brown and two other TA pilots shot down ME 262s on March 24, 1945. By that time, no fewer than 60 ME 262s had been shot down by other units. Why the need for lies?
AJUTAH
I was an extra in a movie filmed when I was stationed in the UK called "The Affair" in 1995. It was a movie about Black GI's based in the UK during WWII. The Black English actors and extras had very little knowledge about Black GIs in the UK during WWII. I didn't expect them too, because it is not a part of "THEIR" history. A few of them had relatives who fought for his majesty during WWII, that I had no idea actually happened. I have no problem with David learning more about the history of the Red Tails.
toppgunnery
Quite interesting how actors had know prior knowledge of who they were even portraying before they had to read articles about the original folks!
A naive statement to say the least. Most actors have to do research on the roles they've been hired to portray...
How long will this last? Till the end of time? Past that?
Haters will always hate!
How long must we pretend to put up with the lies surrounding the Tuskegee Airmen, and pretend that they were anything other than average (or slightly below average) pilots?
The people that you call "average" put up with things that probably would have made you cry and run home to your mother. Things that no other pilot had to deal with. For that alone they will always be heroes... But, their record stands for itself:
http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=15471
KillNazis:
You're absolutely correct, their record speaks for itself. And when compared to other units whose missions were most similar, they Tuskegee Airmen were not particularly impressive. They were, clearly, better than many thought they could be – but the claim that they were among the better units is an outright lie. Their supposed bravery (and other units' cowardice) is an obvious lie – if other units were ordered to stick to the bombers yet refused, would they not be court marshaled?
What is it now Jlacke? Envy? hate? Racism?
Funny how people like you are quick to point out Black failures and scrutinize their accomplishments.
All from the comfort of your mom's garage apartment.
Even if the TA only shot down one plane, they still have accomplished more than you ever will. Hate for others indicates hate for yourself. I pity you, I really, really do.
"What is it now Jlacke? Envy? hate? Racism?"
None of the above. I place importance on the truth. Most of the TA story is false, and I refuse to go along with the lies – since when is refusing to believe a lie evidence of racism? Is that how far we've expanded the definition? A racist is anyone who won't believe blatantly false claims made by blacks? If so, I'm a proud racist.
"All from the comfort of your mom's garage apartment."
Of course. We "racists" are all pathetic losers who live in our moms' basements. Yet we somehow have the power to oppress blacks around the world. What does that say about blacks, that they can be oppressed by us pathetic losers who live in our moms' basements?
'Of course. We "racists" are all pathetic losers who live in our moms' basements. Yet we somehow have the power to oppress blacks around the world. What does that say about blacks, that they can be oppressed by us pathetic losers who live in our moms' basements?"
With this paragraph alone anything else you have stated in this forum is meaningless....regardless if it's true or not. You have no credibility.
Here's the final paragraph from Mr. Haulman's piece, and the most important:
CONCLUSION. Whoever dispenses with the myths that have come to circulate around the Tuskegee Airmen in the many decades since World War II emerges with a greater appreciation for what they actually accomplished. If they did not demonstrate that they were far superior to the members of the six non-black fighter escort groups of the Fifteenth Air Force with which they served, they certainly demonstrated that they were not inferior to them, either. Moreover, they began at a line farther back, overcoming many more obstacles on the way to combat. The Tuskegee Airmen proved that they were equal to the other fighter pilots with whom they served heroically during World War II. Their exemplary performance opened the door for the racial integration of the military services, beginning with the Air Force, and contributed ultimately to the end of racial segregation in the United States.
Daniel L. Haulman, PhD
Chief, Organizational Histories Branch
Air Force Historical Research Agency
'Their exemplary performance opened the door for the racial integration of the military services, beginning with the Air Force, and contributed ultimately to the end of racial segregation in the United States."
And THAT, my friends, is a legacy that cannot be ignored OR "debunked".
The author's conclusion is clearly PC drivel; required so that his work won't be dismissed through ad hominem and circular reasoning attacks. All of the claims to fame of the TA pilots are false – how could disproving these myths possible give a greater appreciation? Surely if the claims were true the TA pilots would be more impressive then their actual record. While he may claim they were no better or worse, the data indicates they were near the bottom of all units (at the bottom of those flying the same plane). Regardless, since the claim is that they were far superior, even showing them to be average exposed them as liars and frauds.
And your last post is a rather pathetic straw man argument.
Jlacke and other haters spend an exorbinate amoun of time and energy denigrating the accomplishments of others.
You have to pity such people who are so full of hate.
I used to work with a guy like this. He claimed to be a Viet Nam war chopper pilot. He would sit at his desk and just blurt out goofy stuff like "the invention of the cotton gym had nothing to do with the demand for African slaves!". I'd look at him and ask "Where did that come from?. Or people would be talking about football and he would just walk up and ask "So why do you have to have a Mis Black America contest? ".
as if I had something to do with organizing the contest.
Then I found out that this guy was born in 1957. We left Viet Nam in 1973. This means this guy would have been a 16 year old chopper pilot inViet Nam. I never figured out this guys problem but it was always complaining bout Black this, Black that. So ome day I asked him "in the game of pool, the 8 ball is targeted last and is Black.Why is that?"
His eyes lit up and he went nuts.
Hate for others is driven from self hate.jlacke get help soon.
Don_J
It would be nice to hear about the other "All Black" units of WWI that distinguished themselves, the Tuskegee Airmen were not the only ones... here are but a few.
555th Parchute Infantry Battlion (Triple Nickels)
761st Tank Battalion (The Black Panthers)
The Red Ball Express
2nd Ranger Company
The Montford Point Marines
... research their stories...
It would be interesting to here or read an interview with Cuba Gooding Jr. He was one of the main characters in the 1995 HBO film, "The Tuskegee Airmen." I thought that was an excellent movie and look forward to seeing this version.
Especially considering that since then I have personally met four of the Tuskegee Airmen. including Dr. Roscoe Brown, who spoke at an Air University Lecture series when I was in the Air Force, and that I served in an air wing that is a descendant of the Fighting 99th. I served with the 332d Air Expeditionary Wing in Kuwait and Iraq.
Red Tail facts:
Proud of yourself, aren't you...
Big Bob
Hi should be, but CNN won't let me tell you why.
sdmike1
Very interesting and well researched. Thanks for posting this
Believe it or not, I don't enjoy bursting the bubble of fans of the Tuskegee Airmen, but the exaggeration of their exploits has moved into blatant lie territory. To make matters worse, some of these very pilots have promoted these lies. The truth should always be the priority, regardless of whose feelings get hurt. And of course, the fact that telling the truth in this case will result in the dreaded r-word accusation makes it that much more important to speak out.
While the mythology of war is an interesting topic, what they accomplished greatly eclipses the need for any "tall tales"
Considering the majority of what is told about the Tuskegee Airmen is a lie (never lost a bomber to enemy aircraft, outperformed most other units, sank a German destroyer, etc.), apparently there has been a need for tall tales.
Like Morgan Freeman inventing a dolphin tail?
jlacke,
I never heard any of that stuff until you brought it up. I don't know anything about military court marshalls. They will always be heroes in my book, I don't care how any one tries to bring them down.
Jack reminds me of those birthers who claimed Obama could not be President because he was born in Hawaii and Hawaii wasn't always a state.
Instead of celebrating the accomplishments of these brave and patriotic Americans, envious people chose to concentrate only on the negative. These sad souls need help.
The TA fought for their country and proved that Black men could be fighter pilots. Jlake sits in from the the computer scrutinizing and harping on the accomplishments of others. All from the comfort of his moms garage apartment.
Let me get this straight: you're getting your "facts" from a blog? Why not a comic book? Or maybe we could find you a nice WWII pop-up book. Perhaps the minutes from a Klan meeting? I'll bet they had lots to say about how the Tuskegee Airmen were, in your words, "slightly below average." Your commentary on bomber-escort tactics are uninformed, and your statements about Eleanor Roosevelt reveal your lack of historical understanding; the First Lady, unlike you, understood the value of publicity to sway public opinion. After she took her plane ride in Tuskegee, the program could no longer be quietly disbanded (as planned) as a "failed experiment." Don't get your facts from weblogs.
the blog provides its sources – most of which are official US military records. Here's another link from a USAToday story – notice the primary source is an Air Force historian.
Jgub
Mr. Oyelowo, how have you not heard of the Tuskegee Airmen before you read this script? Did you not pay attention at all in history class??
He was raised in England and Nigeria (as reported in the beginning of the article). I doubt that part of American history is taught in those countries.
iamdeadlyserious
Right you are, Frank.
Believe it or not Jgub, the rest of the world doesn't have to be utterly enthralled by our history.
Gilbert Moore
Jgub, why would you assume that the rest of the world knows, or even cares, about our history, especially when most of that history dealing with minorities is so shameful? Did you even bother to read the entire article, or just skim the high points? Mr. Oyelowo was "raised in England and Nigeria". Do you think they have American History classes in those countries? Or are you so arrogant that you truly believe that everyone else studies us they way we don't study them? Was UK History or Nigerian History a requirement of your education?
Conscientious Reading Pays
Mr. Jgub, did you not pay any attention in language arts class during your elementary years? Your reading comprehension skills need some fine-tuning. How could you make such a silly comment, when it is obvious that you did not read (or comprehend) exactly what is written? My Oyelowo CLEARLY stated that he was raised in the UK (check the sixth paragraph). Even if you stopped reading this article halfway through, the Editor's Note at the very beginning also states this info, along with the fact that he was born in Nigeria. Please READ before making negative and sarcastic comments!
Yes, he should know our history! We're only the greatest country EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
RealFrank
As soon as we get rid of Jgub, we will be!!!!!!!
I went to high school in San Diego in the 80s. We never discussed the Tuskeegee Airmen. I learned about them from the movie called "The Tuskeegee Airmen."
5 out of 10 have never heard of the Tuskegee Airmen
4 out of 5 will say I saw the movie
3 out of 4 will say "I thought it was "ONLY A MOVIE"
He probably was out shootin hoops and robbing banks!
at least this was an actual squadron engaged in action. spike lee's fictional miracle @ st? could never have happened, as there were NO colored infantry fighting in ww2...OBAMANOS!!!
Todd W. Olson
Flat out WRONG!!!! The 92nd Infantry Division (colored) fought on the Italian front and saw heavy combat along the Rapido river.
Mr Olson, you are correct the Black Cat BN was there and they lost many men, because of racism on the part of the US white commander. That part of the movie was true.
Check Fire, Check Fire!!! Get your head head out of your forward point of contact. Noel not only are you wrong it is you who does not know the true history of the WW11. There are many more heroic Black American exploits during that war that are not in your school books. I wonder why, could it be the HIS-STORY thing?
Try doing some research before posting next time Noel. Your superficial ignorance concerning WII is an affront to those who fought, and died in this war.
Try doing some research before posting next time Noel. Your superficial ignorance concerning this subject is an affront to all those that fought and died in this war.
A colored man.
My Dad fought in WWII. Are you saying he didn't exist?
What color is the sky in your world?
hmmm... i get it...this squadron won ww2!!!! what would we have done w/out them? please, while i appreciate their service and sacrifice, they are little more than a footnote compared to the big picture that was ww2!!! OBAMANOS!!!
Only a footnote to you, I had a family member that was a Tuskegee Airman. Inspite of the racism they dealt with in the 1940s they were patriots. Many of whom got no respect nor acknowledgement when they returned home from America. Some were lynched, most returned to face discrimination. The fought for Double Victory: Victory Abroad and Victory at Home.
Searles O'Dubhain
My uncle flew a B-24 and the family story is that the Tuskegee Airmen saved hs group on more than one occasion. I'm going to see the movie tomorrow to see how badly Hollywood has screwed up their story.
I'd like to know the names and stories of Tuskegee Airmen who were persecuted, lynched or otherwise treated with dishonor. If true, this is a sacrilege.
I continue to be impressed by the contributions of the US black soldier. The majority of the country saw them as second class citizens, at best, and they were discriminated against again and again. But they were willing to fight for their country and fight hard. We need more people like that. Too many today are "woe is me, this country owes me".
paulnielsensql
My Father was a gunner in a B-17. I don't know if the Red tails helped saved his life sepcifically, but my Dad and I have been huge fans of the Red Tails since I was a little kid.
Don't forget FDR's wife, at least according to the first movie. Great movie, by the way. I was a 15 year old white kid, with no exposure to that story. Very eye opening. Also, I used to work construction, and my black foreman, had to deal with racism all the time. It usually came from the white foremans for the General Contractor on the job. It didn't matter that he is one of the hardest working men I've ever met. I can't imagine putting your life on the line for people who would treat you that way. We owe them a great debt.
If you ain't white you ain't right!
vote white, vote right!!! OBAMANOS!!!;)))
There is no place in America for your kind. Get out, you racist, pathetic waste of organic material. And yes, I am white. Not ashamed of it, nor especially proud of it. I just am.
BloggerBlablah
If its white Paint it RED
more hollywood b.s.
the 506 is still here today I ran part of it in Kurkuk Iraq my men and women did great we even had hundreds of Serria Leone in the battle and my Sq. won the T.A. award, The battle continues today
ElreyJones
Blacks have killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of whites since the so-called non-violence movement of MLK almost 50 years ago. Whites segregated from blacks because they knew blacks were violent and could act like the best of violent animals. Nothing has changed in my opinion. Blacks account for the overwhelming number of violent crimes in America. Where is the non-violent movement and when will the bolshevik media allow their 50 years of shameful violence and welfare dependency be exposed?
I am sorry that you feel that blacks are "violent" but I guess that the HUNDREDS OF YEARS that WHITES
TeeSnook
Your ignorance is astounding. This comment has got to be the most patently racist thing I have seen in my entire life. Seriously? How convenient is it for you to discount every single white American on welfare? What world do you live in? How much of the violent crime you speak of has ANYTHING to do with race? You are a coward and a fool. I feel sorry for you.
SouthernBelle
Idiot, what does that have to do with the Tuskeegee Airman. They put their lives on the line to save the white pilots.
MySay500
Where are the hundreds of thousands of whites that blacks are to suppose to have killed? If you can read and better educate yourself, you may learn that it was the other way around. It is an established fact that your comment is not true.
I am proud of what these airmen did the way they fought for a country that denied them so many basic freedoms. They helped break the shackles of segregation in the armed forces.
If you truly want to know where the hundreds of thousand lives that were saved are, ask the survivors of the B-24 crewmembers that are posting on military.com, and other websites many of whom are still searching for the pilots of the red tail squadrons that protected them on their missions and rescued them when they were caught in harms way.
Let me guess, Elrey, you're a republican.
OregonBuckeye
Never ceases to amaze me that African-Americans continue to "slam" those, whom they believe to be "Republicans".
If you're serious about learning from History, why not look into the Democrats treatment of African-Americans DURING and AFTER the Civil War? Read about Radical Republicans. Read about WHY the Southern Whites continued to vote for the Democrats after the Civil War.
African-Americans did not begin to favor (vote) Democrats UNTIL FDR and his Administration implemented the New Deal, then the tide began to change in Democrat's favor.
Am I the only one that finds it ridiculous that as black actors, and african americans in general that David had never heard of the Tuskeegee Airmen? There have been a few movies, with A list african american actors depicting the airmen, hell even the namesake movie that had Cuba Gooding in it as well. I guess it's not THAT surprising as I am repeatedly astonished at how many actors don't know jack about anything they are portraying... they must have been raised, and continue to live in bubbles where pop culture and history don't mix.
BubbaGump
If you read the article, you'll remember that he's NOT African-American. Black, yes, American no. He comes from the UK, where they don't have as much of the historical division and segregation to deal with. The Tuskegee Airmen were part of WWII history, true, but to people outside the US, they're probably not as well known. Just as people from the UK know more about the Battle of Brittain than I ever will, we can't expect them to know every bit of US history perfectly. Especially considering the US didn't publicize them much while segregation was still ongoing, and to the Allies in Europe, Black people serving honorably and courageously wasn't considered a major exception.
You're not the only one that finds it ridiculous. But then, you're not the only one who didn't actually read the words in the article.
wallynm
This is the second film to be made about these pilots. What most people so not know is that was a group of black men trained to be bomber crews that were never allowed to demonstrate what they could do. So there could have been more heroes except in the second case racism won
Really Wally? You're going to toss the race card out here? Moron
Card? To you it's a game, but to them it was real life. The truth is that an entire black bomber squad was denied the right to even try. It's funny how just pointing out a black accomplishment over tremendous odds makes all these racist idiots show up. It's so easy lol
Wow! The only way they became a squadron was because wh*tey went out to find the best and brightest they could find. Then they only had to compete with each other. The Airforce and special forces are bending over backwards, including lowering standards to get AA's to volunteer today. But they simply can't compete with members of the "default" population. Only 2% of the Airforces flyers are AA. They can't compete!
HurtfulTruth
@ Rich
Oh....and to debunk ANOTHER one of your assumptions – "some of the air flight mechanics and maneuvers performed in Red Tails are either inaccurate and/or would have been difficult to perform or unwise".....Such As??!!
I'll help you with one that I THINK you're referring to – Richard Candelaria, a white P51D pilot of the same theater used the SAME MANEUVER on a Bf-109 that was shown in the movie being used on an Me-262...you know, the one where the P51 kills power, pulls up and full left-rudders over to get a shot of the jet as it passes by! Now......as far as I can remember, NO ONE ever questioned either HIS ability to perform the maneuver OR the "possibility" of the maneuver to BE performed in the first place.....HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....I wonder WHAT'S different between Richard Candelaria and the African American pilot in th........Oh, d'uh!
God Bless these fine men who inspite of tacit approval of nationally sanctioned prejudice and hatred against them, still suffered greatly to defend the country that would not allow their own children to share a Woolworth's lunch counter or public bus with white folk.
Time to reflect AGAIN on the contributions of Black Americans y'all.
You're right, of course!
Hmmmm, well, that took about a minute!
Glad there are some people with sense on here...
The Tuskegee Experiment? The writer of this article needs to do some homework. While recruiting black pilots was certainly an "experiment" for the US military, that term normally refers to a much more sinister part of American history. For decades the Federal government conducted a mass experiment on the black population in Tuskegee by quietly monitoring the health of poor sharecroppers who had contracted syphilis. The goal was to study the long term effects of the disease, but within just a few years an effective cure was found – penicillin. The government for some reason decided to continue the experiment and never informed these men that they had syphilis, even though treatment was now available. They kept this up for 40 years until it was leaked in the 1970s. In fact, some of these same heroes were unwitting participants in these tests.
I'm not necessarily faulting the writer for not mentioning this, but the choice of words here was absolutely ignorant at best and incredibly callous at worst.
charlie j
The tone of the article makes it pretty clear that Mr. Oyelowo was on the learning curve during this film. So, I can't blame him for this - I'm glad to hear about a non-American black actor getting excited about this part of our history.
The editors at CNN are another matter. To them I say this: SHAME ON YOU for making this man look bad! Do your job.
Tuskegeescholar
@BWB – While you are correct in stating the A Tuskegee Experiment was the syphillis study, Mr. Oyelowo was correct to call the military exprience of the African American pilots during WWII the Tuskegee Experiment. During the late 1930's and early 1940's, the military called it an experiment.
Please do not be so judgemental of Mr. Oyelowo when both of you are correct.
I acknowledged that one could legitimately refer to the whole development of the Tuskegee Airmen as an experiment for the military. The usage of the phrase wasn't technically wrong. Let's just settle on it being a very unfortunate choice given the connection to an overlapping chapter of our history. In fact, I imagine the author might have picked the phrase because he had heard it before, without realizing that it referred to the syphilis experiments rather than the USAAF unit.
I do apologize for coming down particularly hard on Mr. Oyelowo. I assumed that the article was written by a normal CNN writer and didn't pay enough attention.
For someone to say that racism was minimal during the 1940's World War II, would have to be the opposite color! Whenever your being treated differently because of the color of your skin, its never minimal, and its definitely not minimal anywhere in America. America's history over the past four hundred years has made being black something that is frowned upon. And my father, mother and grandmother lived it every day. In this great country we live in, if racism was minimal at anytime, then so is crime in America. What sense does that make? Exactly! None! I love the way it was depicted. Why show somber and nervousness through the whole movie. These were brave men who sacrificed their lives while back home we were being lynched, just because we were a different color and showed how intelligent we really are.. How stupid is that?
Joe Joe
Why does it say "Cuba Gooding Jr. and David Oyelowo rediscover 'Red Tails' history"
Cuba Gooding Jr. was in the film " Tuskegee Airmen with Lawrence Fishburne in 1995...
Any way I want to thank those brave men for they saved my Grandfather 2 times on missions over Germany......
Rediscover = discover again. Not for the first time, but to discover all over again.
TU Grad
I just graduated from Tuskegee University and am proud to support my school. Everyone please go see the movie for the historical content.
Kiwilogic
Cant wait to see the movie but no one seems to realise there is already a movie about the tuskegee airmen tha was made about 10-20 years ago and is a bloody good movie
there's at least 7 comments to that affect in this thread alone.
All history aside, I'm very disappointed that the producers chose to have the pilots gathering around chanting "we fight" repeatedly like this is some kind of basketball or football game. People who flew bomber escort or the actual bomber routes were very somber and nervous, it wasn't approached in that kind of manner and to depict it as such is far too Hollywood for me. Both my grandfather's fought in WWII and a part of me is glad they've passed on in the last couple years because this depiction of how pilots faced war is kind of an insult to how it really was.
Nobody was chanting before flights, no one was approaching it gladly or with the mindset of a sports game, those men and women were the last great generation, all the baseball, basketball and football players professionally left their respective sports and fought in WWII because they saw it as their duty and did it for the simple fact that it had to be done.
I'm so pleased if they chanted it. Whether they did or not, does not matter. To bad you lost the point of this story. Knowing that being a retired US naval sailor and participating in a few chants myself, I do not agree with your dismissal of such acts.
and I dislike movies that try to depict modern day habits inaccurately as historical evidence. History isn't supposed to be modernized to assimilate modern day behavior. Too bad you missed the point entirely.
I encourage people to look up the actual history, because the history that has been presented here and for years regarding the Tuskegee Airmen has been falsified. One item is the claim no bomber was shot down. They lost exactly 27. Their shoot down rate was only higher than two out of eight all white fighter groups during the same period. They were criticized for low shoot down rates, but some balance that with the slightly higher bomber losses for the other groups. The UAAF had long dropped the escort only mission of the "Little Friends" allowing for more shoot downs and survivability for fighters. There is more to learn from the actual history. ON the whole, they did their job competently, proving that blacks were capable as flyers, which then many thought not possible. The records show very little racist activity against them after they were in training and then especially engaged in Europe. Remember this happened in the last year of the war, not during the worst of it.
I also agree with the idea that this chanting and modern day bombastic bravado detracts for the sober realities then and serves to enhance the mythologizing of history. We have done enough of that already.
According to the few reel to reel news stories of fighters going to war, there was more likely to be a short but complete church service before going to fight. At that time, everybody went to one church or another or a synagogue, in fact, it was required by the military to boost morale. So to be accurate, they should be singing hymns.
Were those 27 planes shot down by enemy airfcraft or from AAA?
Meeker, you don't know what you are talking about (as usual). Nowhere is the movie does it state that they never lost a bomber in their escort.the movie even shows a bomber being shot down.
Also the story, "they never lost a bomber" came from a Chicago defender newspaper article from 1945. They received erroneous inforarion from the war department. When this info was repeated, jealous people (like you) raised such s stink that the I formation was not corrected until 2002.
Still, these men served with distinction and were warded 96 flying crosses.
Fu NY how people like you think that black heroes = white cowards....... that's not the way life works son.
dunlar
What about "catch phrases", like "Take that, Mr. Hitler!"?
Consultants were brought in for this movie. Additionally, the original airmen were on the set during filming. Dontcha think someone would have called BS if it wasn't correct?
Depends on the number of zeroes in the check
Not necessarily, remember along with script writers, directors and producers, there are editor, re-writes and cutters. Not to mention publicist and censors.
I'm glad they chantted fight 3x's. As a former student and choir member The "Tuskegee Airmen Song" is one of our most proud and fun songs to sing. There is a line in the song "Fight, fight, fight, fight. Fighting 99TH...." So yes it was relavent. Little details like that make the difference. They tried to make this movie as authentic as possible and I am thankful for that little detail. I'm sure some of my former choir members will be together during the screening today. And I am most certainly sure that when they see this scene, that song will instictively pop in their heads.
So yes, it matters.
It is because of these "Red Tails" that my uncle (who was flying a "Cottontail" bomber) had his life saved on numerous occasions. As the German flyers who they flew against if they were good or not. I will always honor the Tuskeegee Airmen and anyone who is like them. Thank you.
Two things would have made this a great movie:
1. The cast from the 1995 HBO movie. Lawrence Fishburne > Terence Howard
2. Steven Speilberg instead of George Lucas.
Speilberg is better at historical/war/event movies. Lucas goes all campy.
better Lucas then Michael Bay, Bay would have the Germans firing freaking laser beams.
Clint Eastwood would have been better then those two IMO. He has a better grasp of what is historical relevant then what they would have put in as pure eye candy.
Point taken. Clint Eastwood would have been a great choice.
Agreed abuot Eastwood but I am going to give this movie a chance
It was George's way of saying sorry for his lilly white cast in Star Wars. Give him a break, he's been carrying around this guilt for years.
Reggie L.
I am always surprised how this topic is handled by the majority of people. This story is continuously referred to as a "Black" story; which I agree is somewhat justified given the positive consequences realized by the desegregation of America's armed forces, especially the somewhat elitist air force. And it is relevant the push back these men experienced as they were trained. However, the fact is this is an American story and these men are part of American history, not black history. Someone mentioned Mexican Americans in WWII, I would ask them if they prefer to be singled out as such, or if they would rather be portrayed more accurately as Americans. FYI the great raid deals with Latino soldiers in WWII, serving alongside their "white" countrymen and the remains of the Filipino army. Martin Luther Kings dream was for all people to come together without regard for race. I suggest everyone who would refer to the Tuskegee airmen only as "black history" reconsider their stance and view this as the story of exceptional Americans in WWII. I don't believe that those men were somehow only fighting for African Americans.
They werent just fighting for African-Americans but they had to overcome their countrymen that would not treat them as fellow Americans.
Not to mention the Navajo code talkers. You might remember that it took years for ANY of these stories to be told for whatever reason.
BS Reggie, it seems as though everytime that something historical is accomplished by Black Americans White Americans wants Black Americans to minimalize and share the accomplishment with all americans. That same thing works in reverse when it comes to negative eppisodes that occur in this great country of ours. Black American history has been non-existent in the history books that Black American children have had to study and read up and until this day. It is far past the time when Black Americans learn and understand that their history is also filled with heros and heroic acts.
Recently back from Iraq
I recently returned from a deployment to Iraq. I'm an Army guy, but was in Balad, where the 332d Air Expeditionary Wing was based, which traces its heritage back to the Tuskegee Airmen . I can tell you without question that the unit honors its ties back to the Tuskegee Airmen, which was highlighted in numerous displays, was part of the unit's emblem and whose history was brought up in meetings frequently.
THANK YOU for your service AND for sharing that! It was very heartwarming.
Is it still an all black fighter group?
No, the policies of segregation in the military were ended by President Truman in the late 1940s.
NO ! Segregation in the United States Air force was ended in 1949.
Thank you for your service, and for sharing this important piece of history. I'm glad that the Air Force is continuing their tradition.
I owe my existence to the Red Tails. During WWII my grandfather was on a German prison train bound for a concentration camp. A squadron of American planes strafed and destroyed the locomotive. They flew so low that my grandfather could clearly see the pilots' faces. At the time he didn't know who they were or even that black pilots were unusual in America. Decades later, upon learning the history of the Tuskegee Airmen I put 2 and 2 together.
WOW!!!! Awesome account!!! Just goes to show how far reaching an effect this whole thing has!!
That is awesome! Wish your account could have been included in the movie. It would show just how truly their success spread across the country!
Wow! Please tell the Library of Congress, or Tuskegee, or somebody about this!
TAK, this is the reality people should realize rather than their fears of bak heroism.
I guess no one here knows of the movie that Lawrence Fishburne played in called "The Tuskegee Airmen" made in 1995, interesting...
Jon, I do remember watching that movie and hearing that story back in '95.
I agree with you and from what I have heard it is a more accurate file too..................
Todd1SF
Ha! no wonder Americans don't know our history: we can't remember 15 years ago! Anyhoo, as long as Cuba Gooding keeps making Tuskegee Airmen movies I'll keep watching them.
THAT was an inaccurate assumption!!
First of all, it was a made for TV movie, that ended up on HBO ONLY!! Also, CUBA GOODING Jr. was in THAT movie ALSO as "Billy A-Train Roberts"!
Secondly, THAT movie attempted to cover what could be best described as the "prequel" to THIS movie, such as their training at Tuskegee and their initial deployment to North Africa.
Someone in the posts below ERONEOUSLY stated that the earlier film was more "accurate".....they didn't fly P51D's in North Africa.....so much for your accuracy.
They also didn't spend much time IN arial combat scenes and the special effects were cheesie at best in the earlier film. THIS film covers the events that REALLY made them stand out.
It's good you set the record straight. I forgot that Cuba Gooding was in that one.
Big Hollywood budget, cinematography, and whether or not the earlier film is or isn't a prequel aside, my point is that the movie was out before the new one. Not to mention that it been recorded in history long before that...
Wrong, it was filmed byThe Public Broadcasting Service and has been aired on PBS numerous times. It's also been shown in syndicate on all of the major channels (ABC, NBC, CBS) as well as TNT, TBS and a few others.
Also, some of the air flight mechanics and maneuvers performed in Red Tails are either inaccurate and/or would have been difficult to perform or unwise.
I would never base the accuracy of a movie on special effects.
Also, it's worth noting that the Tuskegee also painted their other planes with red tails, including the P-39, P40, and P-47; it wasn't just reserved for Mustangs.
@ Rich – Are you DAFT??!! Do you do ANY research before posting comments??!! "Filmed by the PUBLIC BROADCASTING SERVICE??!! IT WAS AN HBO ORIGINAL FILM!!!
What happens to it AFTER it completes it's run on HBO is immaterial. ALL movies tend to end up on TV at sometime or another!
AND IT'S ALSO WORTH NOTING that they ONLY painted the tails of the P47's and The P51C's & P51D's RED!! Wasn't done for the 39's & 40's...THEY typically had their prop cones painted red.
And for those of you who are concerned that it was only on HBO. Ask for it at any video rental outlet. or purchase in on ebay.
hecep
I know of the movie, saw it, and have the DVD. The acting was great, but the budget (and resulting limited effects and overuse of actual stock footage) didn't meet the standards of so-called Hollywood blockbusters.
I watched it. It was pretty good as I remember. John Lithgow was in it too as I recall. I think one of the "Cosby kids" had a significant role also but I can't remember his name.
Malcolm Jamaal Warner – "Theo" in the Cosby Show.
"Theo" Malcolm Jamal Warner.
Ted Striker
That movie is one of my favorites ever, you want to stand up and start cheering at some of the scenes they setup.
When Andre Braugher busted out that line, "We weren't assigned, we were REQUESTED," I just couldn't compose myself anymore, probably one of the best scenes ever.
The fact that there is a block buster movie out now does not dimiss the efforts of the first movie. Some people are so sensitive. In 1995 people were just as excited. Or maybe you weren't. Let us enjoy this movie. Let this movie be the door way for you to introduce the 1995 "Tuskegee Airmen" movie to someone. Think about what you can do 1st then worry about others
Red Tails has a lot going for it. Great story, great cast, energetic director, plus George Lucas special effects. Should be awesome.
What is not talked about is the fact that this was a further example of governmental segregation in the U.S. military which continued past WWII. The facade and excitement of this movie covers that up.
And we haven't won a war since.
sielingfan
History and culture people beware - Red Tails is going up against Cate Beckinsale In Tight Leather, so prepare for a disappointing opening weekend..... unless I've completely misjudged America....
johnharry
i am looking forward to the red tails more. Opening weekend has nothing to do with it. i will wait and see it sunday @ 10 pm when 25 people will be in the theater.
Don't get me wrong, I'm with you. But if the turnout isn't good enough, they're going to decide that these types fo film aren't economical, and stop making them altogether.
I wish you had been with me. Our audience for the very first show was well over a hundred, and believe it or not, they were families of all age, university students, class reporters and NOT all Black.
Theaters were packed here and folks applauded several times during the film when the Airmen pulled off some great moves and saves. To get in, had a queing line. well attended by all kinds of folks. I loved the movie even though Hollywood felt the need to doctor up the plot with boy meets girls and heroes act heroically.
Thank you, I appreciated that. After the movie ended I stood up and addressed our audience with comments about the movie and about the actual men who were depicted. I too received a rousing applause and in the loby was presented a coin (as military have a practice of exchanging patches and insignia medallions) from a member to the Auburn University ROTC. Please scroll down the comments and read replies under my name.
I am SSG (USAF, Ret.) Donald D.K. Logan
Former Vice President Hiram E. Mann Chapter T.A.I.
reverend_logan@yahoo.com
Thank you. It is family history that my uncle while flying a B-24 "Cottontail" bomber out of Italy was saved on many occasions by the Tuskegee Airmen.
The thought of Kate Beckinsale in tight leather is enough to get MY red tail flying, but I'm going to see the airplanes instead.
And where did your Kateland film come in?
Sorry; I meant Kate Beckinsale.
OvernOut
I am looking forward to this film, I have always thought it was a great story. We are quite familiar with the story, here in SE Michigan. For what it's worth, the late Coleman A. Young, Mayor of Detroit, was a navigator with the Tuskegee Airmen. The Detroit Free Press has done a great job of reporting on the Airmen over the years. Looks like this movie got it right.
Yea, and since Young was mayor, Detroit itself looks like it was carpet bombed.
CTYank
Actually, on voice radio it's either "over" OR "out." NEVER both.
If you hear "over and out" you're listening to a poser.
Try again: Over means continue the message, your turn, or what else do you have to say. OUT means conversation ended. Over and Out means unless you have something else to say, the conversation is ended. I was an RTO. Radio transmission operator. 10/4?
TheWiz71
Too bad the movie itself is getting very mixed reviews. The history behind it deserves better.
"Mixed reviews" from who?? I haven't heard a single NEGATIVE review and believe me.....I'VE BEEN WATCHING for them!!!
shalozan
I googled Red Tails Reviews, and these were among the first 5 on the results page. Getting mostly bad to mediocre reviews. Heard on the radio today that George Lucas is considering retiring because the movie is being panned.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/red-tails/
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2012/01/18/national/a141621S57.DTL
http://www.mysanantonio.com/entertainment/movies/article/Review-Red-Tails-2612512.php
@ shalozan – Why would he "retire"?!! HE is WELL aware of what he's up against with this movie! He only dedicated the equivalent of pocket-change compared to HIS vast fortune to make this movie. maybe YOU might retire if you made a movie that was being "panned", but i SINCERELY doubt that HE will.
Besides, the "negative reviews" I saw on your links were interesting "opinions" at best. I'm yet to see one of the ACTUAL AIRMEN who participated in the making of the film or ANY of their surviving relatives have ANYTHING negative to say about the movie!! I've seen OTHER WWII vets complain about "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers" lacking historical depth, but THOSE got REALLY EXCELLENT REVIEWS!!!.....Surprise, Surprise! Hmmm..I also wonder if that little "romance" in the film might have something to with these out-of-left-field reviews?? I'll give you folks a hint.....it's the type MANY whites loathed THEN anf NOW!!!
So, there ar NO surprises here! This is EXACTLY what George Lucas was talkingabout when he said that the big production companies told him that they "didn't know how" to "market" a film like this!! WOW!!! What a CROCK!!
Anybody can say anything on a blog, but these really are not what I would call reliable movie critics.
It would be a blockbuster if it had a hip-hop score!
OH Hurt, Don't hurt em too bad!!! Dang!
Just will note that while they may have been handicapped with lack of resources during training, when they went into combat, the Red Tails had the best combat fighter plane of WWII in the Mustang. Because it had long range capability, it was able to provide the cover to American bombers that wasn't available prior to its introduction to the war. The Red Tails bravery is without question, but without the Mustang, their efforts would have been no better than any of the other combat fighter wings that couldn't provide support because their equipment, unlike the Mustang, wasn't up to the task.
Well.... the range does not make the dogfighter. In other words, there is merit to what you say about the ability to escort the bombers, but it does not address what happens when you get there. I'm an active duty Airman, and while not a pilot, I work with enough fighter pilots to know that when you strap on an airplane and get in a knife fight, it's the Airman, not necessarily the airplane, that is the deciding factor. Reference our 10:1 kill ration in Korea: inferior airplans to the Migs, but better tactics and pilots. The Tuskege Airmen worked harder, studied harder, and trained harder than our enemy, and their dedication to fight for what was and is right about this country is what made them successful. Black, White, Latino, Asian, Arab... whatever, we can learn a lot from their example.
Well said Frank
Were YOU there??!!! "Nobody was chanting before flights, no one was approaching it gladly"...did you EVER bother to READ ANYTHING that was written BY ANY of the Tuskegee Airmen??!! Or look at the film clips of them right before missions?
There were no less than ten surviving 332nd Pilots acting as advisers on this movie, but YOU know better, RIGHT??!! Incidentally, did EITHER of YOUR grandfathers serve with the "COLORED" AAF units in WWII?? MINE DID!!! And he AND they were ALWAYS jubilant BEFORE missions because THOSE were the times that WE African Americans lived for during the war...the times that we GOT A CHANCE TO P-R-O-V-E THAT WE WEREN'T THEY WAY THE SEGREGATED US MILITARY T-H-O-U-G-H-T WE WERE!!
So please.....keep your "assumptions" to those who must have passed their own experiences down to you. the experiences passed on to ME made "mission time" the BEST part of the day for these BRAVE men!
Rich really hates movies about black people where they aren't quiet and respectful and call white men 'Sir.'
If anybody has any questions about WWII dogfighting, read General Chuck Yeager's autobiography, or see the movie "The Right Stuff." The book is better; and it says that the pilot, not the plane, is capable of coming out of a cloud to "wax the tail" of another plane. It is the pilot that knows that the MIG would stall if the dive was too steep. Pilots used to have to study aerodynamics too; they knew exactly what the planes were doing. And these airmen did incredible stunts; what you see is what they actually did.
The only nod to history might be the chanting, because WWII soldiers had a church service before a battle, or sang hymns, but with great vigor. But would people complain more if they saw these men singing hymns? It sounds like a very good movie, worth seeing.
Loren,
The Tuskegee Airmen flew several different aircraft during their combat tours, including the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk, the Bell 39 Airacobras, the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt (this is the plane that the tails were first painted red), as well as the North American P-51 Mustang, so your premiss that the Mustang was why they were so successful is without merit.
P47JUG
Thanks for giving credit where credit is due! The P-47 Thunderbolt- The Jug! My father flew this plane in the European Theater in WWII.
The Red Tails weren't particularly good pilots – when compared to other units whose missions were most similar, the Red Tails don't look particularly impressive. This is just revisionist history.
While the P-51D was a outstanding airplane the Tuskegee Airman were not given those aircraft right away they were given P-40 Warhawks good manuverbility but slow speed performance they primarly used those fighters in that squadren for Air to Ground operations untill assigned to P-51B's where they continued ATG ops due to lack of resources it wasnt untill later they recieved the P-51D did they became bomber escorts and held the smallest loss of friendly bombers to enemy fire no other escort squadren can say that I am excited to see this movie but being a WWII history buff I believe I am going to dissapointed on the dipiction of the story becuase there is just to much history to put into 2 hr movie. But still excited.
Joot
I have a 92-year friend who served in WWII as a tail gunner. He was based in Italy and flew 52 missions over Germany. He has always said that the bomber crews loved to see the "Red Tails" pull up along side of them as they headed to Germany.
If I'm not mistaken, they were the escorts of choice among the bomber pilots – many of whom were southern boys.
My uncle was one of those Southern boys who flew out of Italy and are we ever glad the Red Tails were there to protect him.
They were the "fathers that came home to their sons and daughters" and the "husbands that came back home to their wives" They were the ones that named them the "RED TAIL ANGELS". The originals were not named Tuskegee Airmen until some time in the '70's. The German fighters whom respected their skillful flying called them SCHWARTZE VOGELSMENCHEN the "BLACK FLYBIRDS"
Myron Muhammad
Congratulations to All the Executive Producers, Directors, Staff and Actors of Red Tails. I look forward to watching this incredible and historic movie.
Davis Bradley
How about the Mexicans that flew combat sorties during WWII? No one talks about them. The "Fighting 201st". They wiped out machine gun nests, dropped 181 tons of bombs and fired 153,000 rounds of ammunition, acquitting themselves well and bravely. Seven of their pilots were killed in action. They make the "Tuskeegee Airmen" look like Boy Scouts!
DeNassee
No one is down playing the fighting 201. Actually that is a story that needs to be told as well. There were alot of unsong heroes of that war that stories have yet to be told. So to make a statement that they would make the tuskegee airman look like boyscouts is a very ugly statement! All of them served their country well!!!
what about them they puck stupid
Miscabbages
That's a bunch of hockey
And what about the gays! I've read that they wiped out entire nazi divisions!
Imagine if we had come out fighting with our whole force in WWII; black and white together with the women coming up fast behind them. If we had unleashed a brigade of angry black women with bayonets on the Nazis, their entire worldview would have been destroyed. We would BE the world government right now.
Remember the line delivered by Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca? He said that if the Germans tried to take Harlem in New York, the Germans would be wiped out.
Listen, hitler! Don't make me take my hoops off!
Look up the history of Tuskegee if you don't know it. Booker T. Washington was a brave and determined man.
casman
Booker T Washington died in 1915 so how exactly did he fight in WWII?
George Washington Carver took him back in a time machine, of course. Tuskegee UNIVERSITY, not the airmen.
lillielove
casman: Please re-read this paragraph again. "During this visit, I saw buildings, still standing, that Booker T. Washington had encouraged his students to erect out of bricks they made, nails they forged, and wood they cut over a hundred years ago and I saw facilities built with money George Washington Carver was generously able to donate thanks to the proceeds from his numerous discoveries and inventions."
Actually, Carver having a time machine would be a better movie than REDTAILS. Let's make it next.
I'm very grateful to George Washington Carver for his work in botany, but the time machine of genetic engineering; that might be a difficult subject. My family has some serious illnesses and allergies because of genetically engineered foods. When it was cross-breeding, it wasn't so bad, but adding snippets of DNA to produce poisons that deter insects the way these companies now do, that's a time-machine I wish hadn't happened. It might be better to show some of the wonderful advances all over America in botany that happened 100 years ago, including some of the great projects of Carver, and also Barber in Ohio with his model farm with free grazing animals in large numbers.
These were indeed brave men who served an amazing role in the protection of bomber groups while performing escort duties for high important transport groups, and air to ground operations. They were one of dozens of such fighter squadrons but they did not win the war by themselves and were not a pivotal element of the war. They were in fact a highly motivated and well trained fighter group that made the difference like all the other brave men who fought in that long ago war.
Negatory on that one Big Red. To the thousands of descendants of the bomber crews who were born because thier grandfathers were successfully escorted, they p
Ayes a very important role.
According to official govt records, they played a very important role.
Black heroism doesn't take away from the bravery of anyone else.
Get over it.
Personally I am ASHAMED to say that I knew NOTHING about the Tuskegee Airmen until my nephew asked me about them because he was studying them in class. I saw the movie that came out in 1995. I t was terrific. I think black history need to be a required class in schools EVERYWHERE. They only give black history one month to really be thought about let alone taught. And then it's ALWAYS the same well-known people. What about the lesser known. Like I said, we never heard about these men in school. It's a crying shame.
Dan the man
Look genius scholl is not supposed to nor can it teach you everything, try visiting a Library sometime and pick up a book from any shelf it will broaden your horizons!
Dan, perhaps you are the one who needs to visit the library. There you will find a large book referred to as Websters Dictionary. Enclosed in the volume of self education are words like respect, compassion, patriotism, acknowledgement, understanding, and education. Each of these words will help you to understand the insensitivity of your remark. Those of us in our 50's were denied the knowlege of such great people like the 'Red Tails' and the 'Code Talkers' because nothing had been written or was obscured away in dark corners where unless you looked specifically for them would never be found. But in todays world of information and emotional growth we are coming to know these great people. Maybe a bit late, but we are still having the honor of meeting them. I was raised with the words if you are not part of the answer, then you are part of the problem. Show me in your remark where you could ever possibly claim to be part of the answer.
Pam – you were not denied the ability to know about the Tuskegee Airmen. In fact the airmen themselves were used in many war bond ads throughout the war and after. Also many newspapers during wartime and after chronicled their exploits including the Chicago Defender and NY Times. Plus after de-segregation in 1948 most members flew in Korea and Vietnam.
You didn't know about the 332nd because you kept your ignorance about WW2 and didn't spend anytime reading up on the history.
Can't blame society for your ignorance.
NON-ISSUE! They can't teach you everything in school. You learn to learn for yourself. Let's just say some places were less eager to tell this story than others. I've heard about codetalkers all my life though; speakers of an American language that no foreigner could ever learn, talking over the enemies' heads on clear radio channels.
I am grateful for all who contributed to WWII, and that includes the Red Tails, Code Talkers.
It IS the schools' duties to teach EVERYTHING about American History, at least a little of each thing, otherwise it isn't American History. Who rescued Teddy Roosevelt? The Buffalo Soldiers. The who? Yes, if you knew about them, they got all Americans out of the frying pan on several occasions; they were Americans, and should be as important to hear about as the little Whiskey Rebellion, or the small footnote about Aaron Burr. What next, you are saying that we need to know about Ben Franklin and his lightning experiments before we learn about the Buffalo Soldiers?
Next, while cutting history out of a requirement to graduate from college, people will say either that the past isn't important, or the present has no racism. Tell that to the banks that are being fined for charging a different interest rate based on skin color in the past 10 years. That is the present.
Southern Celt
As a Southerner that loves everything that flies, I heard about them years ago and it is high time a Movie was made about their exploits. It is not surprising that Schools generally don't have the time or resources to teach about all the heroic acts of WWII. Just the basic facts. The rest is left to History Majors in College, and only then if they major in what happened in the first half of the 20th Century. It takes an interest in the Golden Years of Aviation, and learning about all the Aces the Wars produced. Legends Never Die. They just Go West :-).
That would be a mighty slim book.
But don't worry, liberal academia is all but wiping out western (white) education. Holding the microscope to any perceived atrocity and minimizing all of the thousands of achievments that make our lives so enjoyable today.
When you grow up, you'll be better prepared to tell when you're full of sh1t. Boo hoo.
m.s.mohamed ansari
RUSH SAVE GLOBAL ECONOMIC TSUNAMI
M.S.Mohamed Ansari 13 April 2009
All press and Media Arabs leader and G20 leader at. Headquarters of All association
CONGRESS. CONTROLL
By. A TO Z + 8. QUEEN + 8
Royal wedding. And royal security force 10 generation total cost $ 57 trillion
Each every politician rolling 8 years only just like chess board Game. Please avoid electronic vote
But queen family rolling 10 generation y
GLOBAL ECONOMIC COLLAPSE REASON WAR. Improve Economy only 6 points. Peace, prayer
Liberty, Unity, friendly And simplicity.
I am also Happy to kill osma bin laden
Turing point of global Economy. Islam not allowed to be Terrorist and Terrorist people are not a Muslim
1. Please avoid war. Day by Day war cost increase $ 3.5 trillion
2. Global economy and food price every Day increase
3. International job less unemployment Y. All businessmen effected business.
4. Global financial crisis every CNC manufacture. New technology energy product Effected FDI investors.
5. Every Day OPEC Oil Price Increase
6. World poverty problem. Bankrupt 170 Bank overalls 87000 Branch
7. Each every single man Effected
8. Ignore future Death million of already Death
9. Million of People Wounded
10. Global environment climate will be change this will lead Global Agriculture problem
A. International criminal court. B. white house. global human right association .C.IMF
D. euro union. E. united nation F.ALL international famous press and media
JUSTICE IS IN PERIL. SAVIOUR OF INTERNATIONAL JUSTICE ALONE CAN PROTECT HUMANITY
From. Mr.M.S.Mohamed Ansari,
154, Angappa Naicken Street,
Tamil Nadu,
INDIA..
To , The Hon'ble Chief Justice,
The Supreme Court,
United States of America,
Fax no: 213.547.8080
Sub: Prosecution of previous President Mr. George W.Bush, for violation of International Code of Conduct.
Mr. George W.Bush, the previous President of United States of America, initiated a war against IRAQ, without obtaining the previous sanction of United Nations Organization (UNO) on the pretext of having nuclear weapons, even though the then IRAQ government openly exhibited to the whole world that it has no nuclear weapons.
According to the CNN WORLD report, in the war 6, 75,000 civilians killed, 7500 troops of USA and its allied forces killed 3 25 000 people wounded and $ 3.5 Trillion Dollar spent for the war. This spending of $ 3.5 Trillion Dollar is the main cause of action for the present economic crises prevailing all over the world.
After winning the war against IRAQ, the United States of America's President Mr. George W.Bush, also admitted the same fact, and he openly stated that the Intelligence agency misguided him.
Later on, even the United Nations Organization (UNO) also certified that the IRAQ has no nuclear weapons.
Then it is the bounded duty of the United States of America and its allied forces to withdraw from IRAQ.
But instead of withdrawing from IRAQ, the United States of America and its allied forces formed a government in IRAQ, under their control and administered the entire IRAQ, and its peoples.
This indicates a clear violation of duty by the President of United States of America Mr. George W.Bush and also a clear case of violation of the International Code of Conduct for UNO members.
Thus Mr. George W.Bush attracts prosecution for the above said offence.
Thus I hereby pray this Hon'ble Court initiate criminal proceedings against Mr. George W. Bush, and give him maximum punishment for
a) initiating the war against the IRAQ
b) killing its innocent IRAQI peoples civilian 6, 75 000
c) Killing troops of USA and allied forces and 7 500
d) The present economic crises.
e) 3 25 000 civilian and coalition 39 000 wounded
Dated on this day of 13th day of April, 2009.
Yours truly, (M.S.MOHAMED ANSARI)
COPY TO
The Chief Justice, the International Court of Justice, The Hague, Netherlands.
The Secretary General United Nations Organization
The Chief Justice, the Supreme Court, IRAQ.
His Excellency Mr.Barack Obama, the President of United States of America, White House, Washington D.C.
This has no place here. Go somewhere else with such futile endeavors.
What does your tirade have to do with the Tuskegee Airmen? Please keep to the subject!!!
Sorry, This is just mental illness and pretty sad.
Good god, that's weird.
I think you meant to post on crazytalk.com. This is cnn.com. Also, your mom wanted me to remind you to take your meds.
NHWoman
I am a history teacher and very excited that this story is being told. Can't wait to see it tomorrow night.
I, too, teach history, and while I am always thrilled to see movies dealing with historical topics, I also get worried that people rely solely on the movie in order to learn history. Movies are a great vehicle for telling the story, but oftentimes, movies can be misleading, present fiction as fact, and will often bend, stretch and twist the facts in order to propel the story. If you really want to learn about the Tuskeegee Airmen, please go to the library and pick up a book about them; it is a fascinating story and depending on the writer, reads like a novel. These are wonderfully brave, intelligent men that deserve their story to be told factually and without bias. I hope that people of all ages will see the movie, and then pick up a book to learn more; you will find so much more than you ever wanted to know.
I feel the same about historical movies. I hate it that people go see U-571 and think the US navy were the ones that got the enigma machine.
mcox
Proud to say I live just outside of Tuskegee, home to so many men of courage and learning.
brutyre
The Red Tails did a terrific job protecting bombers in WWII – a great record. In fact, thanks to all black veterans. And congratulations to the military parents of Robert Griffin III whose son has demonstrated character of the highest quality.
Also first ever airwing to force a fortified enemy position to surrender from air bombardment alone, first fighter wing to sink an enemy destroy, the longest bomber escort mission of the war, 744 air medals, one of the first units to successfully down jet fighters. These guys were simply the best at what they did.
They weren't the best, they were competent. The first jets were shot down by white fliers. They got one too, so...? And as for shoot downs, they only bested two out of eight all white fighter groups. So where does all this stuff come from? It has to be the mythologizing affects of politically (and racially) motivated revisionist historians.
Bested 2 out of 8? where did you get those statistics?
The FACT is that the Tuskegee Fighter group lost 27 bombers. They lost fewer, but a little than the white fighter groups, but they also had lower shoot down rates of enemy pilots. These are two of a number of historical facts that one may learn if they are interested in the actual historical records. It also points out the danger of learning history from movies.
MrDo_WELL
Can you please site your source? you seem extremely eager to discount the efforts and statistics of the group. It would be helpfull if you supplied your source so we can validate what you are posting.
You provide no proof of your rants..... take your racist feelings and shove them up your lily white a$$.
Yes....25-27 bombers WERE lost during their escorts TO the target.
1) How many did the ALL WHITE UNITS LOSE IN THE SAME PERIOD??!!
2) How many were lost to the Tuskegee Airmen on the way BACK from the target??!! HMMMMMMMMMM!!!
Yes....They DID have lower kill ratios. YOU DON'T RACK UP A BUNCH OF KILLS WHEN YOU'RE BUSY PROTECTING BOMBERS!!! THAT was EXACTLY what the Germans did to get escorts AWAY from the formations!! They would usually send their best dogfighters to draw and occupy fighter escorts, while their best "guns" would go after the bombers. When escorts stuck to the formations, it was A LOT more difficult to line up attacks if there were fighters on station.....ASK THE GERMANS!!!! They'll tell you ALL about the hard times they had to deal with the red tails!
Thank you, Hurtful Truth, for some real history. People forget what it means to hold a position; it puts a fighter in much more danger.
the fact is they had a better record than their white counterparts despite the obstacles they had to overcome not surprising often people will push harder when there is more force against them. but the anger about this story is clearly not about the fact that movies distort the truth but a bunch racist right wingers whining about credit given to black heroes. Did you same people complain about the complete lie of a movie U51 when they took a British story and made the heroes American? no you did not!
It's also a FACT thattthey earned 96 flying crosses and thier record officially states that they served with distinction.
Many, many bomber crews not only requested the TA be thier escorts (for reasons pointed out by truth) but there are thousands of descendants of these bomber crews who would never have been born had thier grandfathers go shot down and died. Also, you are obviously coming here to spew your hate as I can PROVE that you are wrong
In the movie it never states "they never lost a bomber" and even shows a bomber being shot down.
So what's your point?
Just curious, how many flying crosses do you have? I'm willing to bet it'sreally close to zero.
J lacks, govt records show that the TA were the first to shoot down a destroyer. Care to comment
No links to storefront allowed.
They also were awarded 96 flying crosses and according govt records "served with distinction.
Ypu remind me of the Colonel in the movie that states "It doesn't matter if they shoot down 8 enemy aircraft or 80 I do not support them"
I' ll reply as the colonel played by Terrence Howard "We don't care".
JDPaladin
Maybe I am glad there is a bigger remake, but I enjoyed and have owned a copy of The Tuskegee Airmen produced in 1995, including stars such as Laurence Fishburne and Cuba Gooding Jr.
Good to know; I'll look for it on DVD
Kay Merrill
I have met the Tuskeegee Airmen and I am glad their story is being told
Told again you mean?
mattressjedi
JJ,
We know. There was an HBO movie from 1995 that came out. I've seen it. It's good. But every story can be told in different ways. This is another way.
So give it a rest.
Keeping their contribution fresh you mean?
What they did was great how they were able to get to where they could do those things is legendary.
I agree with JJ. There are so many great stories from World War II that deserve to be told. Why retell one that's already been told well (Tuskegee Airmen, 1995)? They do the same thing with Pearl Harbor, D-Day, and the Battle of the Bulge.
I am so proud tht the story of these brave innovators will be told. My way of being comes from struggles to always make things right. I have a grandmother who is 98 and often says tht Franklin Roosevelt was the best president we ever had. He just like Kennedy knew one day my people would make a difference and count for something. Thank you to all that lived, died and struggled for me. I am smebody! A African-American wth potential! I am smebody!
FDR dragged everyone out of poverty that he could reach, and it wasn't just because he was being fair. It's cold practicality; every American with a job spends money on groceries and bills.
... and pays taxes.
I wish that Congress would "drag" people out of poverty today. Yes, that would bring in more taxes, so that everybody would benefit. I can't see why more jobs is a bad thing.
But now that the Supreme Court says that businesses are people too, I guess that their robots are also people, and the rest of us don't deserve jobs.