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What are 'human givens'?
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HG Library: Shattered lives interview - hypnosis, suggestibility, cult formation and psychotherapy malpractice.
One of the reasons the human givens approach developed was to counter the harm that many psychotherapists and counsellors were doing to vulnerable people by generating false memories of abuse. The approach has always emphasised that the principle of non-maleficence, 'do no harm', is as important in psychotherapy as it is in medical ethics, which is why Human Givens publications and teachings explain how to recognise cult behaviour in different schools of psychotherapy and 'self-development' movements and the harm this can do.
Given that malpractice is still a problem in psychotherapy, and that some psychotherapists will always be attracted to cult-like organisations like moths to a flame, we are pleased to add to the HG library this powerful discussion between Ivan Tyrrell and Mark Pendergrast, author of Victims of Memory and board member of the American National Centre for Reason and Justice, and the English writer Frances Hill, author of Delusions of Satan a widely acknowledged expert on the Salem witch trials.
Shattered lives
Hypnosis, suggestibility, cult formation and psychotherapy malpractice.
IVAN TYRRELL: One of the many things that intrigued me in your book Victims of Memory is when you talk about the cult-like, almost religious fervour that goes along with people who got involved in recovering memories, multiple personality disorder (MPD), past lives, inner child work, satanic abuse and so on. You wrote in great detail about how cult behaviour stops people thinking clearly and yet have said that nobody who's interviewed you so far has shown any interest in this aspect of the book. Why do you think that is?
MARK PENDERGRAST: It's one of the later chapters in the book so perhaps it's just because people have not read that far before they talk to me! But it's nice to hear that someone else thinks it important. Centuries ago Pascal said, "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." That's just as true now as then. It's in the chapter called 'Survivorship as Religion' that I specifically compare this type of therapy with a destructive religious cult. I also say I don't much like the word 'cult' but I use it for lack of a better one. I prefer the word 'sect'. But cults and recovered memory beliefs are similar and comparable in many ways.
TYRRELL: For those still unfamiliar with how cult thinking works would you describe the similarities?
PENDERGRAST: Certainly. In a cult-like setting there is usually a figure of authority, a guru that you completely rely on and, in the case of recovered memory therapy, the guru is usually the individual therapist or the writer of a particular 'bible' that the therapist has bought into. I've interviewed people who say that they wouldn't do anything whatsoever without consulting their therapists. They almost ask them what they should have for dinner! They develop an over-dependent relationship with their therapist.
In cult-like settings, there is often black and white thinking where everybody is either for you or against you – good or evil – there's no grey in between. Communication with the outside world is controlled so that you are programmed only to hear or read or listen to someone who endorses the belief system and uses the proper jargon. You're supposed to block out anybody who would offer a different point of view.
TYRRELL: Do you find people doing that to your book?
PENDERGRAST: Yes. I keep saying to recovered memory believers, "You know, I've read all of these books, like The Courage to Heal with great care and it would seem to me that, if you disagree with me, you should want to read Victims of Memory with great care and then try and pick it apart and see what's the matter with it." But they don't. They sort of say, "Get that book away from me. It's from Satan! I can't read it."
Another major characteristic of destructive cults is that they tend to demonise the biological family. They tend to promote the idea that your parents and your whole childhood were grim. They rewrite your past to make it terrible and emphasise any horrible thing that ever happened to you and make it worse. They also rewrite your very identity. Quite frequently, in a religious cult, they give you a new name, and that's one of the suggestions made in these incest survivor books – to rename yourself. But certainly, even if you don't rename yourself, you are defined in the movement as no longer a member of your family. You are an incest survivor, a victim with recovered memories of abuse.
One of the things I point out in that chapter is the similarity between dramatic religious conversion experiences and the experiences of people in incest survivor groups. It's a type of group dynamic. I think it's what happened in Salem where people became seized with emotion when they saw other people being seized with emotion. They literally fall to the ground, writhing and screaming. There is a vivid description of this process in The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James. Someone had this experience and thought they were almost dying. This sounds extraordinarily similar to experiences people have when they are 'abreacting' mythical abuse memories.
I also found a fascinating book by an anthropologist, M. Lewis – I believe he is British – called Ecstatic Religions and published in 1971. Incidentally, a lot of the research I did for this section of the book reinforced my belief that much of the best thinking about various subjects was done a long time ago. Anyway, Lewis talked about 'possession cults', which he called 'peripheral possession cults'. He looked at different cultures around the world, not Western ones. He noted that it was predominantly women who joined these cults and he saw that membership of the cults gave the women an enormous advantage. In the societies he looked at, women were mostly disenfranchised – the men had most of the power. By becoming 'witches', or by 'being possessed of demons', they could suddenly wield an inordinate amount of power. Everyone paid attention to them and, by being possessed, they got a great deal of sympathy.
TYRRELL: These are astonishing parallels. I remember being present when the psychiatrist William Sargant showed us films he and his wife had made around the world to record techniques used to bring about abreaction and conversions. He filmed snake cults in America, African shamanistic cults, witch-doctor ceremonies and so on. He noted the methods common to them all. How they raised the emotional temperature so high that people hyperventilated until they entered into a particular state when catharsis takes place and a collapse follows – at which point new beliefs were introduced and absorbed by the participant. He also noted how this technique was successfully used by witch-doctors to treat psychosomatic problems.
PENDERGRAST: Fascinating, and you're right about the hyperventilation. I quoted William Sargant's book, Battle for the Mind, which he wrote in 1957, in this same chapter.
TYRRELL: Well, raising the emotional temperature is what all fundamental religions do to convert people and acquiesce to the belief system. The new followers lose volition and usually soon find themselves parted from a lot of their money.
PENDERGRAST: I'm a bit concerned. I don't want to come across as anti-religious.
TYRRELL: No. No, I'm just curious at the parallels because, as a culture, we need to have a clearer understanding about how easily we're led to believe things. It doesn't just stop at recovered memories. You point out yourself that this same process was how John Wesley converted people to Methodism believing that this cathartic moment was 'the finger of God'. Just as the strong cries and tears of his congregation convinced him and them of the truth of their belief, so the strong cries and tears of recovered memory victims convince them and their therapists that the recovered memories they are experiencing are true horrors of the past.
I once had Marjorie Orr on the phone haranguing me when we held a conference on illusory memories with Michael Yapko. She's a Scottish astrologer who campaigns against anyone who questions the reality of recovered memories. She said about people who come to believe they have recovered memories, "you only have to see the emotion on their faces and hear it in their voices to know they are telling the truth." I was so struck by her naive confidence in this belief that I wrote her words down. She was quite unaware that emotional intensity, belief and sincerity are no measure of the truth of anything at all, and also seems unaware of the necessity to step outside of such emotional states to see what's really going on. What do you think, Frances? Does your research into the Salem witch trials throw light on this?
FRANCES HILL: People who witnessed the agonies of the girls in Salem who claimed witches afflicted them, were completely convinced they must be telling the truth. The girls' agonies were so convincing. But one of the girls, Mary Warren, later described the experience of going into an hysterical trance state when making the accusations. She said that none of the accusations were true. She felt guilty and went to the magistrate and said "We're making all this up." She described the state they got into, saying, to paraphrase, "I thought I saw a hundred apparitions, but afterwards, when I was of sound mind. I knew I had seen no such things." So, when she was in the trance state she was taken over by it and she thought she was seeing these things, but afterwards she knew she hadn't.
PENDERGRAST: That's one good thing about the movie about Salem, The Crucible, because in it they showed Mary trying to say that it wasn't happening to her and that they were all pretending. And then they challenged her and said. "Well, go ahead, have a fainting fit now, if you were pretending so much." And she couldn't do it. It was quite clear that she had got so involved emotionally that, while she was in that trance state, she felt as if this was real and it was only in that state that she could scream and faint and so on. And I think this is a very important point. Many of the therapists who deeply believe in this form of therapy – and who believe in it so deeply that they also believe these memories are true – have told me repeatedly, "You, too, would not doubt these memories if you had seen the overwhelming emotion. No one could fake this emotion." They don't understand. It's not a matter of faking. They are actually experiencing it. But experiencing strong emotions is not a guarantee of accurate historical recall, or anything remotely like it. I mean, there weren't witches afflicting these young women in Salem.
HILL: Witnesses at the time said the same then about those poor girls as they do about recovered memory victims. "If you've seen these girls, you can't help believing that they were afflicted by witches." People felt terribly sorry for them. They seemed to go through such a process, contorted and screaming in pain, that the onlookers were convinced that this possession was happening to them. It sounds to me as if exactly the same thing happens with recovered memories and the generation of multiple personalities. Strong emotions generate enormous, spurious authority.
PENDERGRAST: I want to read you this quote you referred to from John Wesley. This is from 1739, shortly after the Salem witch trials: "We understand that many were offended at the cries of those on whom the power of God came, among whom was a physician who was much afraid that there might be fraud or imposture in the case. Today, one whom he has known many years, was the first who broke out into strong cries and tears. He could hardly believe his own eyes and ears, He went and stood close to her and observed every symptom until great drops of sweat ran down her face and all her bones shook. He then knew not what to think... But when both her soul and body were healed in a moment, he acknowledged the finger of God."
TYRRELL: It's an extraordinary parallel. The interesting thing about Wesley, as with many therapists today, is that he was using a conditioning mechanism without realising it. There are simple, basic behavioural mechanisms that can change our beliefs and people are using and tapping into them today, getting all these strange things happening without any understanding. The fact is anyone can be made to believe almost anything!
PENDERGRAST: Yes. This is one of the things that I continually point out to people. They say: "Well, there must be something dreadfully the matter in this person's family for them to make such accusations. Maybe these 'memories' of massive repression or satanic abuse are not real, but there must be something terribly wrong with the families – where there's smoke there's fire – and there must be something dreadfully wrong with these young women (it's mostly women) who have these terrible memories come back."
But it seems to me that jumping to this conclusion is how most normal people would distance themselves from it. It's almost like saying, "This couldn't happen to me. I couldn't ever be accused of this; my children wouldn't ever do this because they are normal." Well, the fact of the matter is, virtually anyone under the right circumstances can be 'had'. I might not fall for this particular thing because I've researched it, but I might…
TYRRELL: The only inoculation against being sucked into a belief system or overcome by strong emotions that I know of is having essential information. In the same way, we can override the limbic system's justifiable fear of jumping from a great height and leap out of an aeroplane with a parachute. The first time we do it the limbic system is screaming at us, don't jump! We're terrified. But the higher cortex has information – that parachutes work and that other people have jumped safely, that you have practised landing correctly, and so on – and, with that information, almost any fit person can learn to jump out of an aeroplane with a parachute. They may feel that they won't like it – the limbic system will be agitated – but the higher cortex will override that strong emotion of fear.
Just because the emotional centres of the brain can be turned on, and we can lose our volition and be manipulated, doesn't mean we're helpless. Many people, probably the majority, don't fall for recovering memories; they walk away from it when it's suggested.
Also, the problems with recovering memories, MPD and so on, only exist in countries where people exist who have a mind to find them, or to promote them. Third World countries don't experience these phenomena.
PENDERGRAST: Precisely. As a matter of fact that's what happened at Salem. You had priests who could identify that someone was being possessed or abused by witches. They were the 'experts' and had undergone a conversion to the belief in Witches.
I had many therapists tell me, over and over again, "Well, I didn't start to hear all these memories until I was ready to hear them. I didn't start seeing multiple personalities until I started looking for them." Over and over again I would hear this and it did not occur to any of them that they were actually creating these memories or multiple personalities.
I think inadvertent cueing – when people don't realise that they are leading somebody – is a terribly important point. Of course, we are all in a way constantly leading one another as we go about trying to influence people to like us, agree with us or do what we want them to do, but, in an intense relationship such as that between a psychotherapist and patient, this natural process can be extremely dangerous.
As is natural, the patient is continually looking to the therapist for clues as to how they are supposed to behave or react. It's a given in that situation. So if a therapist says, "Well, how do you feel about that?" the patient understands from the question that the therapist is looking for hidden motives, usually negative, usually of dysfunctional families. I think it's a shame that so often, although family life is rarely easy, families are also wonderful resources. Too many therapists are trained to look only for the dysfunctional in them rather than what functions well.
HILL: There is a piece of research that I'm sure you know about, but it startled me. It shows how the simple use of one word rather than another can cue people to remember something differently. People were asked in different ways about an accident they had witnessed. When they were asked, "What did you see when you witnessed that accident?" they say something different from when they were asked "What did you see when you saw that smash?" They would remember lots of broken glass if the word 'smash' were used – even though no broken glass was involved.
PENDERGRAST: Yes. That's from Elizabeth Loftus's work. I mentioned it in the book, and, of course, it is true. I find it amazing how much semantics enters into all of this. There are many cases where therapists asked people to rewrite their memories using different language and meanings so that the way they look at their past changes. For example, when Daddy was previously described as making jokes, these jokes are reinterpreted as lewd, sexist comments. And, if once Daddy accidentally came into the bathroom while you were there, says, "excuse me" and walks out, it's reinterpreted as a grotesque boundary violation.
TYRRELL: This is what's known as 'semantic inflation'. There is another aspect of this that interests me: when people are in that type of intimate situation – a counselling or psychotherapy relationship – they are in trance most of the time. Trance is a form of focusing inwards. And in such states our brains are less in touch with the external world and we are highly suggestible.
PENDERGRAST: That's what an 'absent-minded Professor' is, isn't it?
TYRRELL: Of course. He's in a trance, totally engrossed in solving a problem – focused inwards. But trance states vary. In groups, for example, we often share similar trances, such as when we are watching football, a film, dancing or listening to a speaker. The more we concentrate on something important or distressing, the more we ratchet up the trance. So, when we go along to the doctor because we're worried about some symptom or other, our anxiety levels are raised because it may affect our survival or, at least the status quo. We are focused in an anxiety trance while listening to him. We can't think straight. Then, unless the doctor quickly reassures us, the trance deepens. The limbic system is primarily concerned with survival and generates emotional trance responses accordingly fears, passions, depression, anger and so on. And in this trance state of psychic worry, depression or concentration on pain, we are open to the subtlest suggestions given by the doctor. The same goes for psychotherapy: the more focused we are, the more suggestible we are. The amazing thing is that many doctors, therapists and counsellors seem unaware of this; they sometimes say and do the most crass and psychologically destructive things.
PENDERGRAST: This is interesting. I'm constantly warning people against the hazards of hypnosis. I tell them never to use hypnosis to try to enhance memory because there is solid scientific evidence, replicated over and over again, that you are very likely to come up with confabulation.
But you're saying that you don't need inducing into a formal hypnotic trance to become highly suggestible. People come into therapy and they're looking for a reason for why they are the way they are. If they hear a suggestion, however subtly implied, that, say, their problem comes from repressed memories, then they are quite likely to follow up on it.
TYRRELL: Yes.
PENDERGRAST: A lot of therapists have suggested to their clients that they "will probably dream about abuse". Now we know that, if you worry about something upsetting, you are likely to dream about it. And so people do. When the patient goes back to the therapist and says they had a dream that seemed to be about being abused the therapist says, quite wrongly, that this is evidence that they were actually abused. They are generating self-fulfilling prophecies. Some of the most horrifying cases are where people are told by their therapist that they are likely to want to commit suicide – and then they go ahead and try to do just that! And some of them succeed. Hill: But the hypnotic trance essentially is a state of heightened suggestibility, isn't it?
TYRRELL: Well, it's a state of focussed attention. We all go into mini-trances all the time. If you present somebody with some new information that changes their model of the universe, you see them go off into a mini-trance. It's like a moment of distraction when they stop focussing on the external world while they absorb it.
HILL: We have to form a mental picture.
TYRRELL: Exactly, and you have to go inward to do that – you have to focus and concentrate in a particular way to reconfigure your model of the world in your mind. Curiously the hypnotic state is linked to dreaming. Joe Griffin pointed this out in The Origin of Dreams. Hypnosis is simply an artificial way to accessing the dream state. He describes dreaming as the process whereby our introspective thoughts are clothed in metaphorical garb: during the REM state in sleep, our 8 brain's 'reality simulator' translates unresolved introspections from the previous day in to the rich, sensory reality of our dreams. This same process seems to happen in hypnosis. In dreaming, unresolved daytime introspections are the 'dream script' and the experience is totally real. In hypnosis, the hypnotist 's words replace the dream script in the mind of the subject. The subject's brain processes the words into a sensory reality, just as happens in dreaming – which is why someone can be given a broom, be told it's a beautiful woman, and dance with it in a convincing way. The brain evolved to look for analogies. That's how it can deal with all the ambiguous stimuli in our lives and in the environment; otherwise we would only react in pre-set, mechanical ways to everything, as a primitive, reptilian brain does. I think this same process is connected with why people can believe absolute nonsense with total sincerity. Their brain looks for analogies to deactivate patterns of emotional arousal, but sometimes finds the wrong ones.
PENDERGRAST: That's fascinating. You can imagine the impact when a 'script' that could totally change their world-view is presented to a patient by a therapist. This connects to the idea of cognitive dissidence that Festinger came up with in the 1950s. He realised that we can't tolerate the disharmony of two contradictory ideas or beliefs in our heads so we search for cognitive consistency. This means that, if contradictory ideas are in our minds, we have to go with one or the other. Once we choose one belief it's difficult to go back on it. So, when people are presented with the idea, and try to contain in their mind, that "Daddy loves me and was a pretty good guy" and "Daddy was raping me throughout my childhood", it's intolerable. You have to come down one way or the other and be firm about it.
HILL: Yes. That's what happens.
PENDERGRAST: Ivan. I'd like to know whether you think that what I say about hypnosis is correct. That is, that there are different ways of defining hypnosis. One way is to say it's a state of enhanced suggestibility and, given that, if you are a therapist about to hypnotise someone for a particular purpose, you should give them informed consent. I accept that it can be useful in that instance – if you want to suggest to someone to stop smoking, say – because that's what he or she want. However, I think it's malpractice, even if not intentional, for someone to hypnotise a patient and say, "Now we're going to age regress you back to when you were three years old and remember it all," because that's not what's going to happen.
TYRRELL: That's right. It is malpractice. The patient will fantasise about their past and you won't get accurate memories because, by and large, we can't remember things accurately much before six years-old. After all, we all find it hard enough to remember in detail what we did last year.
PENDERGRAST: But, with suggestion, if they expect it, they will 'remember'. They'll even remember their birth or details about pre-birth 'past lives.
TYRRELL: Yes. And they sincerely believe the confabulation. Hypnosis is, I think, a resource, a tool that all good therapists know about and use. Of course, if a therapist, counsellor or doctor doesn't know about it, they need to inform themselves pretty damn quick because people go in and out of trance states in which they are highly suggestible all the time. Depression, for example, is a trance state. It's one of the reasons it responds so well to any therapy that snaps them out of the trance. I had someone come to see me who was deeply depressed and had been so for about twelve years. During that time she had been hospitalised three times after serious suicide attempts. She sat in front of me, sluggish, not looking at me, so into her depression trance it influenced everyone around her. She'd been seen by several psychiatrists and been on antidepressant drugs, which made matters worse. She kept saying life wasn't worth living and was talking about suicide again. In other words, she was doing what all depressed people do, pulling a global blanket over her life to cut out all the positive memories and resources. In that state of negative hallucination she was totally focused on ruminating about bad things in the past and worrying about the impact of this on her future. Focusing attention is a hypnotic phenomena and endless worrying is also done in a hypnotic state. And its negative worrying that leads to depression.
After listening to her for half an hour I asked her, "When was the last time you had a really good laugh? When did you have tears of laughter running down your face?" She just looked blank at me and said, "I never laugh." I said, "Oh come on, everyone has a sense of humour." She disagreed: "No, I've got no sense of humour." Then I focussed her attention into a deeper trance by saying, "Just go back to the last time when you had tears of laughter rolling down your face." Very soon she began to smile and then she started to laugh. She laughed until the tears flowed down her cheeks. It was wonderful to see. She had remembered an incident several years earlier when her son had accidentally sprayed himself with oil whilst trying to fix his car and she had fallen about laughing.
Now that was a resource for her. It broke the depression trance. It gave her evidence that the depression was lying to her – she did have a sense of humour. The negative global view was punctured. She had hope and was now on the way to a recovery. So knowledge of hypnosis is valuable. It's too easy to dismiss it just because, like any other tool, it can be misused.
PENDERGRAST: I would say that, so long as your client understood she was being suggested into something to help her be more cheerful, which would be okay. I just think we should realise that when we're hypnotised, we're becoming suggestible.
TYRRELL: My point is that people are already in a trance to some degree when they go along to a therapist, or a counsellor or a doctor. They are already more focused, introspective, looking inwards and in that focused state the conscious mind doesn't work well and we are highly suggestible.
PENDERGRAST: Surely there is a difference between that and the formal trance induction
TYRRELL: Yes, a formal trance is deliberate and both parties are usually aware of what might happen and the person being put into trance will have expectations about the result. But what I'm saying is that everyone should be trained about what's going on. You know, a lot of doctors have no idea how the casual comment made to a patient can absolutely plunge them into despair or depression. But doctors are not well trained in language skills and suggestibility.
HILL: This is important. I've heard psychotherapists say, "Oh, but I never use hypnosis." On Kilroy I seem to remember somebody talking as though the only dangerous therapists in this area of recovered memories were hypnotists ...
PENDERGRAST: It is important because, over and over again, the therapists I interviewed who were getting repressed memories from people would tell me how they were careful not to lead the client. Some of them were doing formal hypnosis, some of them weren't. But it is quite clear when you read the interviews that they were leading their clients in one direction or another simply by the beliefs that they brought to therapy.
TYRRELL: Exactly. It's the therapists' beliefs that are the key, that's absolutely true. With depression, for example, if your belief is that you can help a depressed person lift the depression, break the depressive trance and quickly get them back to leading a more normal life it's going to happen. My clients never find repressed memories because I don't look for them. The few people who have come to me and mentioned childhood sexual abuse just said something like, "Oh, I had a really rotten childhood one way or another, but I don' t want to talk about that." They want to do something about their problem now – which is usually being depressed, anxious, obsessive or phobic. The only time I come across problems with recovered memories is when people see me after seeing a psychiatrist or counsellor who suggested that they are suppressing something terrible and that that is the cause of their problem. A neighbour of mine went to an aromatherapist to try and get help with asthma, and the aromatherapist said, "Well, you know what causes asthma, don't you? It's abuse when you were little, sexual, to do with your mouth and all that, which you've just forgotten."
I had another case where a woman was having panic attacks. She went to see a psychiatrist who tried to lead her into having disturbing memories of when she was little, blatantly suggesting the panic was as a result of abuse when she was two or three years old. She thought this was awful; she couldn't remember any sexual abuse and didn't know what he was going on about. So someone recommended she come and see me because she was still having panic attacks. When I asked her what was going on in her life now it turned out she was married to a compulsive gambler, something fundamental that the psychiatrist had completely missed because he was 'looking' for repressed memories. Her first panic attack had happened when her new husband had come home on payday with no housekeeping and no money to pay the mortgage because he'd gambled it all away. She had a new baby, she was depending on this man and her life was falling apart. She was having panic attacks because of her current situation. Was it surprising? No. Did the psychiatrist need to go looking in the past?
PENDERGRAST: Of course not. This is a tremendously important point. I try to mention it in every interview that I do because so many people do have panic attacks. I think about 35 percent of the population at one time or another, according to one study, have them. They are terrifying because you get dizzy, you think you're having a heart attack and dying – you don't know what's going on.
It infuriates me that by misinterpreting panic attacks, recovered memory therapists encourage them. They say something like, "This is a flashback and you're going to keep having them until you get all the memories out." Of course, one of the ways in which panic attacks work is that they feed on one another. As Roosevelt said, "We have nothing to fear except fear itself." You become afraid of having another panic attack and that fear triggers another one.
TYRRELL: Panic attacks respond well to good therapy in a relatively short time. It's been shown that you can even stop people having panic attacks just by explaining to them what they are – explaining about the limbic system and that a panic attack is just the inappropriate firing of the fight or flight response.
PENDERGRAST: A combination of cognitive and behavioural therapy works well. I wrote to David Barlow, the author of the definitive book about anxiety disorders, when I was researching my book. He replied, "People have panic attacks because of current life stress. There is absolutely no evidence that it's because of a traumatic childhood."
HILL: There is, I think, another interesting parallel with the Salem witch trials with this matter of expectations causing people to believe one thing is happening rather than another. In Salem, a group of girls started having fits. Witchcraft! And soon adults around them began to believe witches were afflicting them too. About 50 years later in Northampton, Massachusetts, a group of young people started having fits in just the same way as the girls at Salem. But this time the adults around them thought that the fits showed they were 'receiving Christ' and that was the beginning of a 'little awakening'. In Salem they were looking for Satan: in the second case they were looking for God.
TYRRELL: That's a fascinating parallel and shows why it's so important to be aware of the beliefs of therapists.Victims of Memory also made me think about the stresses our culture is creating, with the 'I want it NOW!' world of instant fixes, the expectation that solutions and explanations to problems should be quick, easy to understand and definitive. But why is our culture so obsessed with abuse?
PENDERGRAST: In some ways it's understandable, I've only been here in London for a week and there have been at least three or four reports of horrible things happening: a young girl murdered in the back of her house in Hastings, a gang rape of schoolgirls and so on. So these terrible crimes, real sexual abuse, do happen all the time. I think this has been so from time immemorial, but the difference is we weren't hearing about it constantly. Modern media has changed all that. As we said, people have panic attacks during times of stress in their lives, but I think now, overall, our whole society is going through a period of stress and uncertainty. Our economy is unstable, job security is gone, marriages are unstable, the family is falling apart – you only have a 50 percent chance of staying married if you get married. We have polluted our environment to the point where we don't know what causes what, although everything seems to cause cancer. We've lost our traditional religious and spiritual moorings, so people frantically search for miracles, guardian angels, New Age cures and astrologers. We live in disturbing and remarkable times, not that others have not done so in the past, but now it's so all-pervasive.
TYRRELL: On top of this we constantly have the means to raise the emotional temperature with music and TV. To keep sane we need to step outside, look at what we are doing and to see ourselves in the larger context.
PENDERGRAST: I agree. I think it is one of the more amorphous things. You can't lay your hands on it. One of the points of my book is that you can't just put your finger on something and say, "Ha-ha! This is why I'm the way I am." And it's the same with society. We can't just point a finger and say, "Ha-ha! This is why we are having a witch hunt right now." It's difficult to pin it down to any one thing.
HILL: I was on a television show the other day, where somebody said, "These false allegations are a price we must pay because of the real sexual abuse that's coming out." I said, "That's a false dichotomy. We are talking about apples and oranges. You can recognise the reality of sexual abuse and be concerned about it because it is an injustice and a dreadful thing, and, at the same time, still be concerned about people who go into therapy, who were not sexually abused, but who come out with this horrible belief and ruin their family relationships. It is an equally horrible injustice." It is very odd to me that people can't draw that elementary and logical conclusion. Did you hear what happened with the 'Day of Repentance Conference'?
TYRRELL: What was that about?
HILL: A group of people called the Committee of Justice, who had members all over the United States, set themselves up to try to overturn false convictions for sexual abuse brought about by recovered memory therapists. They wanted to get people out of jail and try and prevent these things happening again. They decided to have a conference on the subject in Salem, Massachusetts, on January 14th, which was the 300th anniversary of the Day of Repentances. The Day of Repentances, in 1697, was five years after the Salem witch trials when a day of fasting was declared to repent the injustices that had taken place as a result of the witch trials, particularly in the light of people being hanged or pressed to death. And this was a good idea. It was going to be held at the Peebody Essex Museum but they had to change the venue to a Hotel because the Peebody Essex was swamped with e-mails from people saying, "You mustn't let this dreadful conference take place on your premises..." Fortunately these bigots didn't stop it. But the venue had to be changed.
PENDERGRAST: Many luminaries contributed: Arthur Miller, William Styron, John Putnam Demos, Debbie Nathan and Mike Snedeker who wrote an incredible book called Satan's Silence. It was remarkable that, five years after the witch trials, the twelve jurors apologised and came out with a public statement. They said, "We do therefore hereby signify our deep sense of, and sorrow for, our errors in acting on such evidence to the condemning of any person and do hereby declare that we 13 justly fear we were sadly deluded and mistaken." That took a lot of courage, just five years after the terrible events. In America we have been going through the modern equivalent witch-hunt for 15 years!
TYRRELL: But you do have a story in your book, thank goodness, of a therapist who has said she's sorry for what she did.
PENDERGRAST: Yes. But I have only run into two such therapists, I know it takes a lot of courage for them to look at what they have done and admit it was wrong.
HILL: It's a difficult thing for people to say sorry...
PENDERGRAST: I think it going to be very difficult for them to do but I am convinced it will happen over time, just as I am quite convinced that most of the people who were separated from their families for no reason other than these illusory 'recovered' memories are going to come out of it in time.
TYRRELL: Another aspect of this is that, as more people are trained with the necessary skills to help people out of depressions, anxiety states, and other forms of distress, the public will find them. One of the reasons this false memory tragedy has happened is because psychiatry has let the public down, it's largely ineffective and relies mainly on dubious drug treatments, and that opened the door to all kinds of quackery with weird New Age beliefs flourishing like weeds and others derived from ideas of Freud and Jung.
PENDERGRAST: Yes. We need to address psychotherapy in a rational and scientific way, and look at what works and what doesn't. Otherwise people will continue to create nutty fads. We went from psychoanalysis, rebirthing, primal screaming, now we are doing EMDR, eye movement desensitisation response, which is essentially waving a finger in front of people's faces – going back to Mesmer. We are going to continue to do this until we make sure that anybody who calls themselves a psychotherapist is made to take decent courses in how memory works, how suggestible we are and the hazards of hypnosis.
TYRRELL: The thing that appals me is the lack of interest in useful information that some people who say they want to help others have. They call themselves therapists but are getting a huge emotional payment for what they do: for them prurient excitement and self-importance is more important than getting people better. They would rather manufacture victims than see what is really going on.
HILL: There is a story in Victims of Memory about a hotel receptionist who got into hypnotherapy. Suddenly, instead of checking people into the hotel every day, she was exploring people's past lives.
PENDERGRAST: Yes, the past-life hypnotherapist. I talked about her in terms particularly of the people who are discovering multiple personality disorder. It's exciting to feel that you are on the cutting edge of a new thing, delving into the subconscious of people, getting dramatic results. Much of the time people change slowly, people have problems but have to learn to live with them. Unfortunately, people have an expectation that they deserve to be happy. Life's just not like that. It's a little more complicated.
TYRRELL: The Declaration of Independence did so much damage by saying we have a right to happiness!
HILL: If people could just be a little better educated, if they could learn in biology at school about all of this how biology isn't just the physical but the mind as well and how the mind and body are inseparable perhaps we could escape such madness in the future.
PENDERGRAST: This is a fascinating thing. Because you can cure warts with hypnosis.
TYRRELL: That's right. The mind affects the body and the body affects the mind. I had a woman come to see me whose feet were deformed with verrucas. One of them was bigger than a 50 pence piece. She had had surgery, had been to chiropodists up and down the country and had had treatment for years. None of it had worked. She was in agony all the time because verrucas are in-growing warts and her job involved standing all day. I put her into a deep trance and just told her a story that contained a metaphor for the problem and its solution.
HILL: What was the story?
TYRRELL: It was made up on the spot. I told her that, once upon a time, there was a beautiful princess who had inherited a country when her father died. All went well for a while but then alien savages invaded the country in the south. They built formidable castles and ravaged and terrorised the people all around, draining the resources of the surrounding countryside and making everyone miserable and suffer dreadfully. She had no experience in warfare and didn't know what to do. Then one day a wise old warrior came along who understood what was necessary and instructed her on how to reclaim the land. "Surround their castles, lay siege to them and make absolutely sure that they can't get any food or water, no sustenance at all, from the surrounding countryside." Now that sounds daft, doesn't it? But, you know, her verrucas died and fell off within three weeks. Six weeks later, her feet were completely smooth with fresh skin. It was wonderful!
PENDERGRAST: That shows the power of suggestion.
TYRRELL: It's done all the time. And the knowledge of how to do this goes back for centuries.
PENDERGRAST: Some therapists talk about so-called 'body memories'. They convince people that one of the ways memories come back to you is that, if you were sodomised your anus will start to hurt, or, if someone was pinning you down in a particular place, your shoulder may hurt, or a tumour is the site of unresolved traumatic memories, things like that. It's quite remarkable that people can produce pains by thinking or worrying about them. They can even produce actual marks – stigmata, or marks around their necks if they 'discover' they had a past life in which they were hanged; they will suddenly develop this redness around their necks.
TYRRELL: That is hypnotic phenomena.
PENDERGRAST: In the book published in 1980, Michelle Remembers, which was one of the first books about recovered memories and ritual abuse, Michelle gave herself the mark of the devil's tail on her neck. There is a picture of it in the book shown a evidence of what supposedly had happened to her. But, precisely as you said, the mind can have an unbelievably powerful effect on the body and vice versa. So you have to be careful about drawing conclusions from something when suggestion is involved. Therapists have even convinced people that their cancer was caused because they had repressed memories! It's absolutely astonishing. And the range of people who suggest such nonsense goes from psychiatrists with all kinds of degrees down to your dance instructor who tells you that "you move like someone who was sexually abused."
This interview with Mark Pendergrast and Frances Hill first appeared in the forerunner of the Human Givens Journal, The Therapist, 1997, Volume 4, No 3
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Alan Alda always strives to play someone different. He takes Marc through the many characters he's created, from Hawkeye to Uncle Pete, and explains how he challenges himself from role to role. Plus, Alan talks about why he created an academic organization that advances science communication. This episode is sponsored by MeUndies, Squarespace, Sonos, and Audible.


LAST TIME ON CORIOLANUS: Having returned triumphant from Rome, Coriolanus is prompted by his mother to stand for the position of consul. This requires him to go before the people and ask them for their support. He does so, but in a very grudging manner. Still, the rather malleable populace give him their voices. However, the tribunes then remind the people just exactly how much Coriolanus hates them, and how much they hate him, and the whole pack of them rush off to stop Coriolanus from becoming consul.
This was a really difficult scene to cartoonify, as it is mostly people ranting furiously at each other, but one of the great moments is when one of the lowly tribunes tries to tell Coriolanus what he "shall" do. The resulting diatribe is scathing.
A. Accept their judgement and relinquish the office that you didn't want in the first place?
B. Attempt to come to a reasonable compromise?
C. Fight in the courts to clear your name and retain power?
D. Insult everybody and rant about wanting to eliminate the people's representatives from the Republic?
If you answered "D", congratulations! You might just be a stiff-necked, stubborn, self-righteous prick, just like Coriolanus!
In other news, the line "Triton of the minnows" is fantastic. It has all the connotations of "big fish in a little pond", but with added scorn and derision. Try using it at work this week!
There is actually a fully-fledged brawl here, where the patricians all rally around Coriolanus and force the tribunes and the plebeians to retreat, but my artistic talents can't quite handle brawls yet.
Spare a thought for Menenius, who is trying so hard to be the voice of reason and conciliation here, but is thwarted at every turn by the man he is trying to defend.
Stay tuned tomorrow to see if Coriolanus is able to sweet-talk his way out of this very large mess!


Polsinelli PC issued the following announcement on Jan. 30.
Polsinelli's Financial Technology ("FinTech") and Regulation Practice has been recognized by Chambers and Partners in its recent FinTech 2019 guide. Polsinelli is one of just 11 firms to be recognized.
Chambers also recognized Polsinelli FinTech Practice Chair Richard B. Levin individually in the Blockchain and Cryptocurrencies category.
Chambers rankings are based on several factors, including information obtained from client interviews, submissions put forward by law firms, as well as Chambers' own database resources. Individual attorneys are ranked on the basis of their legal knowledge and experience, ability, effectiveness and client-service in their respective practice areas.
As one surveyed client said: "Polsinelli has very good connections with U.S. and international regulators. A lot of what we brought forward hadn't been seen before by regulators, but they have taken us through that process and we are very pleased with the end result."
Another client noted Levin's strength in advising FinTech businesses on securities regulatory issues and compliance: "Rick does a really excellent job of using his knowledge of the law to help his clients achieve business goals, especially in regulatory negotiations and particularly with the SEC."
Levin joined Polsinelli in 2016 and launched the firm's FinTech and Regulation Practice, which is made up of attorneys specializing in securities, corporate, intellectual property, litigation, public policy, tax, transactional, and regulatory issues to serve clients in the FinTech space.
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In previous posts we've discussed the growing popularity of motorized window treatments. We've talked about why to buy and even trends within the motorized window coverings segment, but we haven't talked about what to buy.
The what of motorized window treatments can certainly get quite complex, so we'll cover that topic over a handful of posts (although the best approach is to ultimately contact your local Skandia dealer, to discuss the best solution to your motorized window covering needs in detail). But for now, we'll talk about the two different motorization lines that are available from Skandia, and why you might choose one over the other.
Skandia carries two brands of motors: Rollease Acmeda and Somfy. The offering between the two brands is really quite similar, but there are enough differences between the two that the Rollease Acmeda motor might meet your needs better than the Somfy motor and vice versa. Below we've broken down the most important criteria when it comes to selecting motorized window fashions, and have given our thoughts on which brand has the edge.
Somfy is the preeminent brand in motorized window treatments. Their longevity and reputation is unmatched in the industry. With over 30 years of manufacturing motors and over 100 million motors sold, their quality is unquestioned. By contrast, Rollease Acmeda is relatively new to motorization, however the Rollease brand has been one of the most well-respected names when it comes to systems and componentry. In a relatively short period of time they've brought innovative, more user-friendly products to market. That alone isn't enough to force a tie though. Rollease Acmeda's warranty is really what levels the playing field in terms of quality. Rollease Acmeda motors are warrantied for 7 years, whereas Somfy motors are warrantied for 5 years. Somfy's longevity, and Rollease Acmeda's warranty make it impossible for us to say who has the edge on quality. The fact is that both brands provide the highest quality motors in the industry.
The debate rages on in the halls of the Skandia offices, but according to the manufacturer spec sheets, the Somfy motors are slightly quieter. One writer, having tested both motors extensively, happens to think that the Rollease Acmeda motors are slightly quieter, but that writer will remain nameless. Regardless of whether the Rollease Acmeda motors or the Somfy motors are quieter, noise is one of the most important factors in selecting a motorized window treatment, and we're confident that both lines offer some of the quietest motors on the market. For comparison purposes, all motors that we offer have decibel levels that are more than 50% quieter than a dishwasher.
Clearly, one of the most important factors in any purchase is the price. When it comes to the price, our Rollease Acmeda motorization line has a strong advantage. Depending on the configuration selected, Rollease Acmeda motors can range from 15% to 40% less expensive. If you're purchasing motorized window treatments for an entire house, the cost differential can be quite substantial. On most criteria the Rollease Acmeda motorization line and the Somfy motorization line are very comparable…not on price.
If you ask us this question again in 5 years, the advantage would likely go to Rollease Acmeda, as innovation is the focal point at Rollease Acmeda. Even as of the writing of this post you could make a compelling argument that Rollease Acmeda offers more technologically advanced motors. With that said, we gave the edge to Somfy due to their more advanced home automation platform. With home automation being one of the most prevalent trends in motorization, we heavily weighted this factor. If you're looking for motorized window treatments that tie into your home automation system, then Somfy is the best selection. If home automation isn't important, then we find Rollease Acmeda to be the more intuitive, user-friendly motor.
By offering both Rollease Acmeda and Somfy, we believe that we have the most comprehensive motorization offering in the custom window coverings industry. Our approach ensures that you find the best possible solution for your motorized window covering needs! Hopefully this blog helps you in that endeavor!


Conveniently located at 964 W Main Street (Route 230) in Mount Joy Borough, our repair shop is your best source for professional and reliable service.
For over 40 years, we have offered quality repairs and service to the area. Our ASE Certified Technicians utilize the latest up-to-date information systems and diagnostic tools to fix your vehicle right the first time. We will always try to explain what we are doing in simple terms you can understand.
We work on most American and Foreign vehicles including Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Lexus and more. We have access to Factory Maintenance Schedules, allowing us to perform the needed services to maintain your new car warranty.
We want to provide the best service at the best rates without wasting your time. We will work within your budget and make suggestions for future service needs. Our ultimate goal is your satisfaction.


You'll never feel the need to say "I'm not a numbers person" ever again with Artichoke.
Explore the Income tools on the dashboard. Spot trends in your income, simplify taxes, keep track of who owes your money, and easily build your goals. It's all here on the dashboard if you know where to look.
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Mortgage & Protection Adviser – Excellent Leads – OTE £65K+ in Year One!! - London
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Mortgage Broker / Adviser
London & South
Salary range:
£30, 000 - £39, 999, £40, 000 - £49, 999, £50, 000 - £59, 999, £60, 000 - £69, 999
Salary Description:
£30K - £35K basic
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A well-established and very highly-rated mortgage brokerage in North-West London is looking to hire an experienced Mortgage and Protection Adviser for its successful team of high-earning Mortgage Brokers. If you're looking for a long-term career with an established and forward-thinking firm, then please take some time to read below.
This leading brokerage has been established for over 30 years, and since opening its doors, has experienced considerable success in the Mortgage and Protection industry. Whilst experiencing this success, this firm has retained its core members of staff who've helped to build this mini-empire into the recognised brand it is today, all whilst ensuring the staff turnover is kept incredibly low. To give you an example of this, the most recent recruit joined 3 years ago!
After experiencing another positive year, full of new business enquiries and client satisfaction, this firm is looking to hire an experienced Mortgage and Protection Adviser to take on new enquiries in a 100% leads provided role, with the ultimate goal to be as successful as the top earners in this firm. You'll be working on leads that are provided from several new build sites, all of which have worked with this firm for several years. Whilst it's not essential that you have experience within new build, it is certainly preferred, as you'll be working in this area extensively.
You will be working within a very relaxed and friendly atmosphere in a close-knit team. There's no "hard sell" here, and no egos, so if you're looking to work within an aggressive and cut-throat sales environment, then this probably won't be for you!
You can expect a base salary of £30K - £35K with an OTE of up to £65K for the first year, but the 'sky really is the limit' for earnings. You'll also be supported by a dedicated Admin Team who will process all paperwork and aftersales work, so your only focus will be on writing business.
Whilst this opportunity sounds ideal, it must be stressed that the firm needs someone who is proactive, entrepreneurial, eager to write as much business as they can, and essentially, work well within a close-knit team. The Mortgage Advisors at this firm have worked together for a good number of years, so going solo won't work here.
You'll be working 9am – 6pm (Mon-Fri), but will be required to work 1 in 4 Saturdays, however on the plus side, you can work that Saturday from home!
It's safe to say that this is an excellent long-term career option for an experienced Mortgage Broker in the city centre. This firm has the support and business available for you to be successful, whilst ensuring your work/ life balance is kept healthy. If you're looking for a high-earning role that can provide the longevity and career development you're looking for, then please don't hesitate in applying.
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Nick Sirianni doesn't have much to say about Jalen Reagor
Posted by Mike Florio on September 1, 2022, 2:32 PM EDT
The Eagles praised receiver Jalen Reagor on Tuesday, after he made the 53-man roster. The next day, they buried his Philadelphia career.
Come Thursday, Eagles coach Nick Sirianni didn't have much to say about the 21st pick in the 2020 draft.
"We do wish him the best," Sirianni told reporters, when asked why things didn't work out. "You get emotionally attached to everybody you have here as players. He's not on our team anymore. He's a Minnesota Viking now. I'm not even going to go into that or anything there. He gave some good plays while he was here. He had a good training camp, like I said yesterday, and I wish him the best."
Sirianni was later asked whether it was simply an issue of a change in coaching staffs between Doug Peterson in 2020 and Sirianni in 2021.
"No, I didn't feel that way at all," Sirianni said. "Again, as coaches you're always trying to use the players to the best of their abilities, and our job as coaches — I know I'm from the high-school family of coaches, that the kids that grow up in your town, you find the scheme that fits that group of kids. Our job as coaches is to find the scheme that fits the guys that you have in the building. So I never feel that way about a player."
So, basically, Sirianni didn't regard Reagor as being good enough to have the scheme fit him. And now he's gone, with the Eagles not having to pay the balance of his contract and getting a little something for a guy who, for whatever reason, didn't give them much of anything in two NFL seasons.
14 responses to "Nick Sirianni doesn't have much to say about Jalen Reagor"
I'd take the player and can the coach.
Reagor was in a toxic environment in Philly after being the opposite of Justin Jefferson over two years. But even Justin Jefferson wouldn't have put up Justin Jefferson numbers had he been drafted by the Eagles. Wentz, Pederson and that dumpster fire his first year, then Hurts and a run-first offense his second year- brutal. Of course Reagor didn't help himself by showing up out of shape for training camp last year with new coaches not tied to him, and who've spent a lot of resources on the WR position since drafting Reagor.
But a change of scenery will do Reagor good, and he'll be more productive in Minnesota than he was in Philly. That's a low bar, but Reagor will come in as WR4 on the Vikings, and likely punt returner, and likely be used as a downfield threat and occasionally a jet sweep guy, but will need to compete for playing time. But his value in Minnesota may be more than just his stats. If he keeps a safety busy downfield, opening up things for JJ and Thielen, that's helpful and worth the 7th and conditional 4th or 5th 2024 pick (which is valued as a 5th or 6th in today's draft currency). And he comes cheap with two years left on his rookie deal.
zeke says:
"Of course Reagor didn't help himself by showing up out of shape for training camp last year with new coaches not tied to him, and who've spent a lot of resources on the WR position since drafting Reagor."
You forgot the part about him dropping everything that came his way, including a potential game winning pass that HIT HIM IN THE HANDS against the Giants last year. Good Riddance.
ewitkowski says:
JR is a talented player who just didn't make plays. He's a first round investment – it's painful he was taken over Jefferson – but hard to knock a GM who put together a Super Bowl winning team.
End of the day, JR didn't make plays.. he just.. didn't. Google "Jalen Reagor Dropped Passes" and you'll see enough low-lights to indicate the guy hit his ceiling.. and that's that. Wish him well, but I'm over the guy who made Nelson Agholor look good..
Kyle Cruel says:
Leave it to two people who haven't seen him play to think so highly of Reagor. He had red flags in college then his NFL career was nothing but Bull. Charge that to the Eagles if you will but the chips are there for you to pick up. We are done.
packerlies says:
If he keeps a safety busy downfield, opening up things for JJ and Thielen, that's helpful and worth the 7th and conditional 4th or 5th 2024 pick
First Reagor was outproduced by a 6th rounder the eagles drafted later in the same draft.
Second trading two picks to keep a safety busy downfield is not a wise use of two picks.
rugbyisbetter says:
Anyone who saw this guy saw that he had athleticism but absolutely no control, or confidence, and lack of intellect on the field. In his year 2, of being a first round draft pick, the rookie first round draft pick rose to levels that Aghelor.. i mean, Reagor never even sniffed.
I hope the change of teams helps him. Hes got talent in there, but he needs to bring it out of himself.
Perhaps in this case, both Reagor and Eagles are in a win-win situation. (note, the comparisons with Jefferson, are not going anywhere, anytime soon! Hopefully for his sake, he plays well and its a moot point.)
jonathankrobinson424 says:
He was a great wide receiver if you didnt expect him to catch the ball.
Matt Giaquinto says:
The Eagles got MORE for Reagor than the Cowboys got for Cooper.
dlw492 says:
They bashed him for being picked before Jefferson. Now they get to play together on the same team! Might be great for him in Minnesota!
mrhockey89 says:
As a Vikings fan, I'm not expecting a whole ton, but hoping he can fix some of his issues and hopefully be a better fix in an Az-Hakim (who also had speed but not very good hands) type role should he get on the field.
For the Vikings I have to assume this was to fill the open punt return void and hope from an offense standpoint that he starts to click more akin to his TCU days. Not a terribly big investment, and probably has at least as much shot as a 4th/5th and/or 7th that we would have taken with those picks. From an Eagles standpoint, he wasn't helping them and clearly wasn't in an environment where he was striving. Hopefully a win-win for both teams, but we'll see what happens.
unknownvikingfan says:
He's glad he could unload their dead weight on our Vikings to give us the solid #1 WR we've been searching for.
Brandon Jensen says:
As Vikings fan I hope he can just be a solid punt returner. The compensation wasn't much and with Jefferson, Theilen, Osborn, Cook and hopefully a healthy Irv Smith Jr. We don't really need him be a primary playmaker on offense at the moment. If he can just focus on Punt returns and being a 4th WR maybe wecsn get our money's worth. If he bombs out it's just a 7th rounder and a 5th two years from now.
jmscooby says:
We've seen it with many players in all sports. Some players are motivated by having a chip on their shoulder, (Brady, Rodgers, Jordan…) One could argue the situation could be reversed if Reagor and Jefferson would have been drafted by the other team. All players have different motivations, especially when they become instantly rich.
JMHO, but I'd be confident with Aaron Donald playing WR for me. He might be doing a lot of blocking downfield in the run game with a few bubble screens, but I know I'm getting pure effort every play.


I remember a funny (not-so-much) story from when I was working for a small advertising agency. After a really long and exhausting meeting with a client, we went back to work in order to deliver what the client asked for and what we decided by mutual agreement.
Why would you settle for an almost-good banner ad instead of an awesome one? You can outrun your competition if your banner ad design outruns his. There are certain steps in this process and after we've covered the first one, it's time to take a step further.
Buying directly from banners is something we always wanted to achieve. This will take e-commerce and banners, for that matter, to a new level. Let's take a look at a few embeddable e-commerce elements, that are available for you to use in your banners.


We have an outstanding fleet of party buses, limousines, and shuttle vehicles at your service! They come in a variety of sizes and colors. Click the links below to learn more about each type of vehicle.
Our fleet offers the most truly beautiful vehicles for any occasion! You can even tell from even the exteriors that out vehicles are ready for a celebration! With gorgeous leather seating arrangements, our vehicles are both spacious and beautiful! There's amazing entertainment options on each bus and limo that will blow you away, like USB/aux ports, amazing laser lighting effects, beverage areas, and dark windows for complete privacy. Not to mention tile flooring and a dance pole in the larger vehicles. Check out the links above to learn more and give us a call if you have any questions or are ready to book!
Contact us at any time! We're always happy to hear from you.


text:
package edu.pdx.cs410J.grader.poa;

import edu.pdx.cs410J.grader.gradebook.Assignment;
import edu.pdx.cs410J.grader.gradebook.Student;

public class RecordGradeEvent {
  private final double score;
  private final Student student;
  private final Assignment assignment;
  private final boolean late;

  public RecordGradeEvent(double score, Student student, Assignment assignment, boolean late) {
    this.score = score;
    this.student = student;
    this.assignment = assignment;
    this.late = late;
  }

  public double getScore() {
    return score;
  }

  public Student getStudent() {
    return student;
  }

  public Assignment getAssignment() {
    return assignment;
  }

  public boolean isLate() {
    return late;
  }

  @Override
  public String toString() {
    return "Record " + (isLate() ? "late" : "on-time") + " grade of " + getScore() + " for " +
      getStudent().getFullName() + " on " + getAssignment().getName();
  }
}

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaGithub


text:
Q: Totally lost – data binding expressions inside GridView's template 1) On aspx page we define GridView control named gvwPolls, and inside its template we define a user control named pollBox1
<asp:GridView ID="GridView1" DataSourceID="objPolls" ...>
    <Columns>
        <asp:TemplateField>
            <ItemTemplate>
                Question is : <%# Eval("QuestionText") %> <br />
                <mb:PollBox ID="PollBox1" runat="server" PollID='<%# Eval("ID") %>' />
            </ItemTemplate>
        </asp:TemplateField>
    </Columns>
</asp:GridView>
<asp:ObjectDataSource ID="objPolls" ...></asp:ObjectDataSource>

a) I assume that inside gvwPolls's template, the gvwPollBox1.DataBind is called before PollID='<%# Eval("ID") %>' and <%# Eval("QuestionText") %> expressions get evaluated?!
b) Can someone offer some explanation how or why is gvwPollBox1.DataBind called before PollID='<%# Eval("ID") %>' and <%# Eval("QuestionText") %> expressions get evaluated?
2) Continuing with the above example:
-- pollBox1 user control defines a Repeater control named rptOptions:
<asp:Repeater runat="server" ID="rptOptions">
    <ItemTemplate>
        <%# Eval("pollBoxTitle") %>
    </ItemTemplate>
</asp:Repeater>

-- In pollBox1's code-behind file we bind rptOptions to a data source inside DoBinding() method.
-- We also override pollBox1's DataBind() method:
  public override void DataBind()
  {
      base.DataBind();
      DoBinding();
  }

a) I assume that due to overriding pollBox1.DataBind(), the data binding expression <%# Eval("pollBoxTitle") %> ( defined inside rptOptions's template ) will get evaluated prior to a call to DoBinding method? If so, won't then <%# Eval("pollBoxTitle") %>  get evaluated before rptOptions is actually bound to a data source?
b) If that is the case, how then is rptOptions able to extract value ( from data source's pollBoxtitle property)  from a data source, if at the time the <%# Eval("pollBoxTitle") %>
expression got evaluated, rptOptions wasn't yet bound to any data source?
thanx

A: I can't explain why the page life cycle is the way that is, probably has something to do with rendering childs before the parent object. When exactly do you call .DataBind() in the PollBox control? Try to move it into an event that is later in the life cycle, like PreRender.
There is also another way to ensure it is working the way you want to:
Subscribe to the RowDataBound Event, use .FindControl("YourPollBoxID") to get the instance of the control current bound row, set the properties and perform a manuall .DataBind();

redpajama_set_name: RedPajamaStackExchange


Working out how to plan a holiday in Australia is your first step to taking an exciting getaway or road trip, where ever you go you will create great holiday memories to treasure forever.
To plan a holiday you need to think about what type of holiday do you like eg. camping, road trip etc, where do you want to go to, how long do you have, what is your budget and what type of activities or attractions do you want to see eg. the beach, go bush, the outback or a city etc.
Imagine..... Walking on a beautiful pristine beach, surfing the waves or snorkeling and experiencing amazing marine life.
Driving towards that huge rock in Central Austalia - It is stunning, then visit spectacular Alice Springs and the surrounding area.
Go swimming in the refreshing gorges and thermal pools in the Top End, go fishing for Barramundi and admire the amazing wildlife.
Visit Australia's beautiful National Parks, wander through tropical rainforests, be mesmirised by Uluru, climb mountains and be amazed by nature that shapes many wonderful structures like Devils Marbles in Northern Territory and Wave Rock in Western Australia.
The Choice is Yours - Thousands of possibilities! Enjoy!!
"Berry Springs is in the Northern Territory and is a short drive south of Darwin, we stayed there for 5 nights when we were on or road trip to the 'Top End'. There are plenty of things to do at Berry Springs and the surrounding area including the Territory Wildlife Park which was a wonderful display of tropical wildlife, the local fauna and an excellent 'Birds of Prey' display which we loved.
Between Berry Springs and Darwin there is Humpty Doo where you will find a 'Big Thing' which is the 'Jumping Crocodile', closer to Darwin is Howard Springs where you can swim with huge Barramundi and in Darwin you can visit 'Aquascene' and feed wild fish, see a movie at the outdoor deckchair cinema and also visit Mindil Beach, enjoy the market and a great meal while the sun sets and creates stunning images."
These how to plan a holiday tips will help you whether you are having a short holiday or a longer one at any destination.
What To Do - Start by thinking about what type of road trip or holiday you are interested in and how long you have available - Do you want adventure, sightseeing, a learning experience or a total relaxation holiday for a week, several weeks or a month or more.
Budget - Work out your holiday budget total, this will help you decide what type of accommodation, activities you will do.
These money saving travel tips will give you a few more suggestions.
If you have a limited budget consider allowing for a special treat activity that you have always wanted to do or stay in a luxury resort for a few days.
Remember there are many free activities and experiences available everywhere, look out for them.
Destination - The list of holidaying destinations is endless, if you have a destination planned that's great. If you don't, do some brainstorming and select one, several or work out a longer trip passing through many locations.
How to plan a holiday is a lot easier if you choose a holiday package deal. They are a great option as everything is included and organised for you, but they don't suit everybody.
You may rather go on a self drive Road Trip and choose what to see, where to stay and what to do.
Choose a holiday destination that suits you and your family or friends. Don't choose a destination on someone else's recommendation unless you are sure it is exactly right. We have found that everyone has different opinions on what is good or not.
We have been to recommended places and found them not so good and been to places with average recommendation and found them great. So it is hard to choose from recommendations.
Resources - Use all the available resources to help you work out how to plan a holiday to suit you. Select your holiday destination and plan an itinerary if required. The internet is a great resource, there is also brochures, travel guides, information centres, map books and travel agents.
Camp Australia Wide books are an excellent resource for finding cheaper and free campsites, campgrounds, rest areas anywhere in Australia with road maps included. There are several different books that are of very high quality and extremely useful. Any of these books will help you when you are working out how to plan a holiday in Australia with your partner, family and friends etc.
Book Ahead - Booking your accommodation or tours ahead is usually recommended, they always require a deposit or full payment. Knowing that your holiday is booked helps you have a stress free holiday preparation.
If you are doing a self drive tour and moving from town to town every few days with no set itinerary, it may suit you better to book your accommodation several days ahead. This also works with campers who are constantly moving.
Travel Insurance is an optional extra that seems a waste of money until some thing goes wrong. Unfortunately things do go wrong and a flight or tour has to be cancelled, your luggage gets lost or stolen etc. Your travel insurance will cover incidences like these and more. Worth considering especially if you are outlaying for an expensive holiday in Australia or overseas.
Pack Your Luggage - When packing your luggage choose clothes that are suitable to the climate you are going to, try not to over do it. It is very easy to pack too much, most places will have facilities for washing. Remember important documents, camera, medicines etc.
Recording Your Holiday - Take a camera and video camera if you have one and take some spectacular images. Also keep mementos like tickets, postcards, brochures and those interesting things you pick up along the way. If you are on a longer trip consider recording it in writing in a diary or on a blog online using www.blogger.com.
When you are working out how to plan a holiday for yourself, family or friends consider the above tips that suit your type of holiday. Then discuss with everyone involved and have the best ever holiday.


Discussion in 'Graphics Forum' started by jdallen1222, Aug 27, 2013.
Done with ms paint, http://www.online-image-editor.com, and 20 minutes of copying and pasting. Anyone else like it?
giovafin and Fishweiser like this.
Yeah, I wished it went more along those lines. that seems a little more natural looking and less passive. Even if the tail was curved up but not to the extent it currently is would have been better. Oh well, Im not unhappy with the new logo though.
I dunno. Can you transpose this onto the uniforms?
MikeHoncho and Stringer Bell like this.
Let me try the helmet first.
giovafin and MikeHoncho like this.


Description: Vlicha is a nice sandy beach close to Lindos, the second most famous town on the island. This is a lovely bay protected from strong winds.
Description: Ialyssos is among the most developed tourist resorts on the island. The beach is sandy, clean and has many watersports centres.
Description: One of the closest beaches to Rhodes Town, Ixia has crystal water and many watersports centres. The pebbles on the coast are small.
Description: This is an organized beach in a walking distance from the town centre. Its sandy coast and closeness to the city makes it popular.
Description: A small pebbled beach with few wild rocks, Fournou doesn't offer any kind of facilities apart from the shade of the olive trees.
Description: Genadi is the last organized beach on the southern side of Rhodes, just a few km before the windsurfing resort of Prassonisi.
Description: The golden sand, the clean water and the relaxing atmosphere make Kalathos a nice family spot on the island.
Description: There are many umbrellas and sundecks you can rent to enjoy the beautiful scenery and relax under the shade.
Description: Katsouni beach has shallow, crystal water. Although it is organized with sun beds and umbrellas, it is a bit secluded from other beaches on the island.
Description: Kiotari is a lovely resort within a short drive from Lindos. It has sandy beach and crystal water, while there are also many tourist amenities in the area.
Description: This is a small beach between Mandrakio and Skala Kamirou, totally unorganized and somehow remote.
Description: A small beach with no tourist facilities, Kouloura is a nice place to enjoy some peaceful moments.
Description: The beach is very popular due to its closeness to the capital town and the crystal water. It has many tourist facilities and watersports centres.
Description: Lachania is a large beach with clean water and sandy coast. The surrounding region has many tourist facilities.
Description: This is a beautiful pebbled beach with clean water in Lardos bay. An ideal spot for families with young children.
Description: The crystal clear waters and the sandy coast of Paradisi create the ideal environment for visitors who want to enjoy a relaxed day at the sun.
Description: This is a calm alternative for the close crowded beaches, like Faliraki and Ladiko.
Description: This is a nice, organized beach close to the tourist resort of Paradisi and the airport of Rhodes.


text:
Q: Unable to install Wordpress on Amazon's EC2 instance due to missing php-mbstring I've created a new instance on Amazon's EC2 and I'm trying in wordpress and it's failing due to php-mbstring:
# yum install wordpress
Loaded plugins: amazon-id, rhui-lb
Resolving Dependencies
--> Running transaction check
---> Package wordpress.noarch 0:3.9.1-1.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-simplepie >= 1.3.1 for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Processing Dependency: php-gd for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Processing Dependency: php-enchant for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Processing Dependency: php-PHPMailer for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Running transaction check
---> Package php-PHPMailer.noarch 0:5.2.6-1.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring >= 5.1.0 for package: php-PHPMailer-5.2.6-1.el7.noarch
---> Package php-gd.x86_64 0:5.4.16-21.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: libpng15.so.15(PNG15_0)(64bit) for package: php-gd-5.4.16-21.el7.x86_64
--> Processing Dependency: libt1.so.5()(64bit) for package: php-gd-5.4.16-21.el7.x86_64
--> Processing Dependency: libpng15.so.15()(64bit) for package: php-gd-5.4.16-21.el7.x86_64
--> Processing Dependency: libXpm.so.4()(64bit) for package: php-gd-5.4.16-21.el7.x86_64
--> Processing Dependency: libX11.so.6()(64bit) for package: php-gd-5.4.16-21.el7.x86_64
---> Package php-simplepie.noarch 0:1.3.1-4.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: php-simplepie-1.3.1-4.el7.noarch
--> Processing Dependency: php-IDNA_Convert for package: php-simplepie-1.3.1-4.el7.noarch
---> Package wordpress.noarch 0:3.9.1-1.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Processing Dependency: php-enchant for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Running transaction check
---> Package libX11.x86_64 0:1.6.0-2.1.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: libX11-common = 1.6.0-2.1.el7 for package: libX11-1.6.0-2.1.el7.x86_64
--> Processing Dependency: libxcb.so.1()(64bit) for package: libX11-1.6.0-2.1.el7.x86_64
---> Package libXpm.x86_64 0:3.5.10-5.1.el7 will be installed
---> Package libpng.x86_64 2:1.5.13-5.el7 will be installed
---> Package php-IDNA_Convert.noarch 0:0.8.0-2.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: php-IDNA_Convert-0.8.0-2.el7.noarch
---> Package php-PHPMailer.noarch 0:5.2.6-1.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring >= 5.1.0 for package: php-PHPMailer-5.2.6-1.el7.noarch
---> Package php-simplepie.noarch 0:1.3.1-4.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: php-simplepie-1.3.1-4.el7.noarch
---> Package t1lib.x86_64 0:5.1.2-14.el7 will be installed
---> Package wordpress.noarch 0:3.9.1-1.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Processing Dependency: php-enchant for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Running transaction check
---> Package libX11-common.noarch 0:1.6.0-2.1.el7 will be installed
---> Package libxcb.x86_64 0:1.9-5.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: libXau.so.6()(64bit) for package: libxcb-1.9-5.el7.x86_64
---> Package php-IDNA_Convert.noarch 0:0.8.0-2.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: php-IDNA_Convert-0.8.0-2.el7.noarch
---> Package php-PHPMailer.noarch 0:5.2.6-1.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring >= 5.1.0 for package: php-PHPMailer-5.2.6-1.el7.noarch
---> Package php-simplepie.noarch 0:1.3.1-4.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: php-simplepie-1.3.1-4.el7.noarch
---> Package wordpress.noarch 0:3.9.1-1.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Processing Dependency: php-enchant for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Running transaction check
---> Package libXau.x86_64 0:1.0.8-2.1.el7 will be installed
---> Package php-IDNA_Convert.noarch 0:0.8.0-2.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: php-IDNA_Convert-0.8.0-2.el7.noarch
---> Package php-PHPMailer.noarch 0:5.2.6-1.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring >= 5.1.0 for package: php-PHPMailer-5.2.6-1.el7.noarch
---> Package php-simplepie.noarch 0:1.3.1-4.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: php-simplepie-1.3.1-4.el7.noarch
---> Package wordpress.noarch 0:3.9.1-1.el7 will be installed
--> Processing Dependency: php-mbstring for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Processing Dependency: php-enchant for package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch
--> Finished Dependency Resolution
Error: Package: php-PHPMailer-5.2.6-1.el7.noarch (epel)
           Requires: php-mbstring >= 5.1.0
Error: Package: php-IDNA_Convert-0.8.0-2.el7.noarch (epel)
           Requires: php-mbstring
Error: Package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch (epel)
           Requires: php-mbstring
Error: Package: php-simplepie-1.3.1-4.el7.noarch (epel)
           Requires: php-mbstring
Error: Package: wordpress-3.9.1-1.el7.noarch (epel)
           Requires: php-enchant
 You could try using --skip-broken to work around the problem
 You could try running: rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest
#

I'm using RHEL7:
# cat /etc/redhat-release
Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server release 7.0 (Maipo)
# yum repolist
Loaded plugins: amazon-id, rhui-lb
repo id                                                                                repo name                                                                                status
epel/x86_64                                                                                Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux 7 - x86_64                                                                              4,325
rhui-REGION-client-config-server-7/x86_64                                                                   Red Hat Update Infrastructure 2.0 Client Configuration Server 7                                                                 1
rhui-REGION-rhel-server-releases/7Server/x86_64                                                             Red Hat Enterprise Linux Server 7 (RPMs)                                                                                4,447
repolist: 8,773
#

a while back and another environment I had to run following command first in order to get access to php-mbstring:
rhn-channel --add --channel=rhel-x86_64-server-optional-6
How do you do that in Amazon EC2?:

A: As far as I can tell from the package manifest, the build of PHP included with RHEL 7 is pretty minimal, and a lot of extensions are missing. They don't seem to be in any other channel, either.
Many people use the remi repository for up-to-date and complete builds of PHP, and you may wish to do this as well. Repos are currently available for PHP 5.4 and 5.5.

A: php-mbstrings is available in RHEL7 via rhel-x86_64-server-optional-7 channel.
rhn-channel -c rhel-x86_64-server-optional-7 -a; yum info php-mbstrings

yum info php-mbstring
Loaded plugins: rhnplugin
This system is receiving updates from RHN Classic or Red Hat Satellite.
epel/x86_64/metalink                                                                                | 4.3 kB  00:00:00
Installed Packages
Name        : php-mbstring
Arch        : x86_64
Version     : 5.4.16
Release     : 21.el7
Size        : 1.3 M
Repo        : installed
From repo   : rhel-x86_64-server-optional-7
Summary     : A module for PHP applications which need multi-byte string handling
URL         : http://www.php.net/
License     : PHP and LGPLv2 and BSD and OpenLDAP
Description : The php-mbstring package contains a dynamic shared object that will add
            : support for multi-byte string handling to PHP.


text:
Note: This is not a static site - entries are being updated continuously. New entries are listed immediately below, but check on the bottom of the page for recently updated entries.
Dunham Place

Forgotten NY has an article today about Dunham Place, one of the two shortest streets in Williamsburg (Fillm… Place being the other).
Development of Fillmore Place
Editor's note: This article was originally written for the Waterfront Preservation Alliance of Greenpoint and Williamsburg. It has been revised and updated with new information.
Another Fillmore Friday excerpt from WPA's nomination for the proposed Fillmore Place Historic District. This week, a bit about the developers Clock & Miller, the buildings themselves, and who lived there.
Clock & Miller
Origins of Fillmore Place
Fillmore Place was a very late addition to the Williamsburg street grid. When the Village of Williamsburgh was laid out in the early 1800s, Fillmore Place didn't exist. The following is an excerpt from WPA's Fillmore Place Historic District nomination, describing how this one-block long street came to be.
Fillmore Place Historic District
Editor's note: This article was originally written in 2007 for the Waterfront Preservation Alliance of Greenpoint and Williamsburg. It has been revised and updated with new information, including information from the New York City Landmarks Preservation Fillmore Place Historic District Designation Report (2009).
Arion Hall
A Creek Runs Through It
Editor's note: This article was originally published by Brooklyn 11211 . It has been revised and updated with new information.
Subscribe to New Entries


As fresh horrors in the global Fukushima disaster continue to unfold, workers are the latest victims. Six of them, who were working at the plant, were accidentally splashed with highly irradiated water this week while accidentally removing the wrong pipe from some equipment. The incident is the newest in a laundry list of dilemmas connected with the plant. The other main issue – the continued seepage of toxic water into the Pacific Ocean – is ongoing.
Yoshimi Hitosugi, spokesman for the Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO), said the radioactive water spilled onto the workers and the entire floor of the facility in which they were working. The area in which the incident occurred houses three units that are used for the treatment of water in the plant.
TEPCO has recently come under fire for allegedly misleading the public about safety levels and oversight at the Fukushima plant. The latest controversy has been the company's apparent failure to publicly acknowledge the full scope of the leakage of irradiated water into the sea.
Though the workers were wearing face masks and hazmat suits, their exposure to radiation is still cause for concern. It will undoubtedly continue to shake the confidence of the Japanese people in TEPCO's ability to get the Fukushima chaos under control.
The workers' operations were rather routine. In order to keep the melted reactors cool, they must continuously be doused with water, which then becomes contaminated and must be periodically pumped out and stored in tanks. It was during this basic maintenance that the workers were put at risk.
Shunichi Tanaka, chairman of Japan's Nuclear Regulation Authority, downplayed the hazard, saying, "It was serious in that it was a problem caused by carelessness, but I do not believe they were exposed to a seriously troubling dosage" of radiation.
The pipe was later reconnected and the water was contained and cleaned up. But concerns remain. Many believe, for example, that workers helping with cleanups are being unnecessarily exposed to radiation.


This sports armband is a considerate design with waterproof function and light weight feeling, tied to the arm or wrist. Soft elastic waistband prevents chafing and is fully adjustable for waist sizes. Outer round opening can be put your phone or MP3. You can simply attach it to your arm with your device inside and listen to your favorite music when your are running, jogging, riding, hiking and other outdoors campagins.


text:
The Harrogate Convention Centre, its purpose and future
The Harrogate Convention Centre
On 29th November some 60 members and invited guests spurned the World Cup to attend a briefing at the Harrogate Convention Centre. We were told of the challenges facing the venue and given a confident vision of the future. Sadly the director, Paula Lorimer, could not be there to greet us, but we were made very welcome by Head of Operations Michael Constantine.
Michael talked about the Centre's history, now more than 50 years old, and its size, a footprint greater than the rest of the Council's public estate put together. An elegant venue in its time, by the 1990s it had reached the top five of conference and exhibition centres in the UK. But since then its fortunes have been in gentle but persistent decline until it is now well outside the top ten.
So why is this?
First, the venue is tired, after years of insufficient investment in repairs and renewals.
Second, it cannot accommodate the current key conference market (500 delegates or more) nor can it provide the flexible breakout spaces required.
Third, newer venues (such as Liverpool and Manchester) are major competitors with more contemplated, such as Gateshead and Leeds.
The good news is that customers love Harrogate. All that is needed is a venue that reflects the quality of the destination. The Centre still delivers a massive economic benefit to the town and district, attracting 157,000 visitors each year with an economic impact (for the hospitality, retail and leisure sectors) of some £35m.
So what are the options?
The Council, who own the Centre, could "do nothing", continue as it is with minimal investment. But that would only lead to further decline. Forensic accountants KPMG have estimated that, over a 40 year period,"do nothing"would result in the Centre losing some £250m. This would result in a massive ratepayer subsidy.
Or the Centre could "do the minimum", see vital improvements to the venue's infrastructure but not the fundamental redevelopment needed to restore the competitive edge. The 40 year loss might reduce to about £113m, but still hardly satisfactory.
Or the Centre could "do something", by some degree the most attractive of the options, seeing the 1980s buildings substantially redeveloped and upgraded.
But Michael was at pains to point out that "do something" would not be cheap. Even the first phase (approximately the eastern half of the venue)is likely to cost some £46m. Even so, KPMG's model indicates that "do something" would eliminate the deficit and indeed convert into a £29m surplus over the 40 year period.
So "Do something" is the option being vigorously pursued, with the new unitary council already showing its commitment by agreeing for Harrogate to invest some £3m to work up phase 1 in detail including tendered costs. Yes, the capital cost remains to be found, perhaps from a mixture of borrowings, authority reserves and central government funding. An application has already been made for a £20m grant from the levelling up fund. But Michael is confident it can be found.
So a bright future is predicted and Michael finished by asking us for constructive and nurturing feedback, support and encouragement - and any good ideas that the Centre team have not already thought of.
So that is our challenge!