Good podcast but the guest seemed more interested in his take, and less interested in the communication exchange.<br>Seems to be a common theme with "math heads".<br>The part about scale and dimensions...<br>We cannot know the outside of the universe.<br>There may well be no outside.<br>We can know however that there is inside to the universe, where scale simply can be no smaller.<br>It is always interesting to listen to maths experts think about this, Lex had the right idea about outside but Jordan didn't attempt to acknowledge the idea of inside and outside, rather focusing on the looped string on the coffee mug, Errrr complete fail.<br>Take a computer 3D environment, x y z axis a focal point open a sphere scroll the zoom on the sphere to shrink down to the focal point, then scroll out from the focal point making the sphere larger in scale you can keep making the sphere larger &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ∞.<br>The thing that is interesting here is when you make the sphere disappear into the focal point and make the sphere larger again, it appears that the sphere collapses through its inside and expands again.<br>It is not too much of a leap of faith, to realize that this might actually be happening in the universe at the smallest scale, the smallest outside collapsing through itself over and over again at the same immeasurable frequency undeterminable from the persisting instant.<br>We exist at a fixed scale, on a really big planet, but zoom away from Earth until it becomes a tiny blue dot then instead of the earth being the outside we stand upon it appears to become an inner point, but to the observer looking from the inside out, it's just because Earth is a long way in the distance, the observer is still just an inner point on the outer of the metaphysical sphere of distance. <br>Not the holistic gigantic outer edge of the sphere where Earth is just a tiny blue point in the center.<br>But when we focus inwardly, and to the point, I am attempting to make our viewing is "holistic from the outside in".<br>This to me is how I envisage concepts like the 4-dimensional tesseract for example.