I am sorry Lex but many important if not essential points have been missed here. No words on overflowing hospitals... lack of certain groups' will to adapt... actual evidence that lockdowns slow down disease spread! If a scientist ignores such clear evidence and only points to selected subjects/studies then it is fair to disregard his/her opinions. Sure, in an ideal world, we could have even stopped COVID with no lockdowns before the vaccines were introduced. Yet, we don't live in such a world. Main motivation behind the lockdowns were to prevent hospitals overflowing. Once, this happens without enough ventilators and medical stuff, the case fatality rate increases drastically. See what happened in India with the delta variant. Another point missed here is that vaccinating kids help to curb the pandemic by reducing transmission in the schools.  An interview like this required a more challenging point Lex. This also applies to guests from the opposing camp as well.