While listening, I opened about 15 different windows on my laptop to research some of the highlights of the conversation. It was an engaging and thoughtful discussion. I very much appreciated learning so much more on the origins story and thought that Jamie explained it clearly and cohesively. Super thought provoking. I was a bit more surprised with his pro-vaccine stance and it struck me as odd. Based on his deep questioning of the origin story, I clearly made the assumption that Jamie would also question some of the propaganda around vaccines, specifically around promoting young and healthy individuals to take the vaccine vs vulnerable people and the elderly. Intrigued by the idea of 'Cacao Shamans!'