It is a great interview - arguably the first of Lex' series that I was truly glad to listen to in its full length.<br>It feels preposterous trying to add a thought to it, but I cannot resist: At one point (reflecting Roger Penrose) Demis says studying the human mind (among other things) convinced him there is no metaphysics or quantum required for understanding intelligence. I admit, as a physicist I had to swallow when hearing metaphysics and quantum put next to one another as explanatory tools. Why would we not agree with Richard Feynman ('the world is quantum, so we better start using it for compute')? Maybe quantum is not required to understand the human mind at that specific level - but then again, humans are not the limit of interesting intelligence. I felt a bit like little Robin in 'Bewilderment' by Richard Powers," telling his astrobiologist father in a dream: '<a href=""http://dad.dad/"">Dad.Dad</a>! You have no idea.'",(reply>), Surely the proof that the quantum plasma pea at the Big Bang had life and consciousness in potential … is that we are here writing and reading this. <br><br>To deny this would be to contradict Feynman and say that science does understand the quantum universe … it isn’t destined to “shut up and calculate” <br><br>Would have to deny cause and effect systems theory .. the fact that the Univerae is a unified field … there are no particles . That field is a field of nested holons all the way up and down . Our bodies are nested holons of cells and organs … ditto universe galaxies stars black holes. <br><br>Would deny that the definition of Universe is … all that is was and will be eternally … out with time and space. <br><br>Would be to deny that the transcendent territory of geometry and mathematics and the four forces didn’t shape the living conscious plasma energy into Einstein and Mickey Mouse … with just some cooling and clumping relating growing ( call it evolving ) and waiting around for 14 billion years for it all to unfold like and egg to a chicken … without one single human thought .. for 14 billion years. <br><br>That IS the story … why doesn’t science tell it that way. <br><br>Militant materialism … pure and simple <br><br>Atomism and the void … verses a living holonic quantum level entangled holographic field which … by definition IS all that is was and will be and is probably cycling through birth and death eternally … outwith time and space (Penrose) <br><br>Just like … US<br><br>Science - “ Why would the Universe be just like us” <br><br>Children leave school believing this guff. No wonder physics is at a particle seeking brick wall and Biology and computer science are now ripe to inform physics <br><br>They won’t listen. How can something made from the beliefs of militant materialism listen to all that “hippy guff”. <br><br>This is why the planet is dying … unenlightened capitalism wedded to atomistic science … conducted as if the Universe isn’t alive and conscious at every system level…. Big bang  plasma  to Mickey Mouse. It’s as obvious as the planets we knew were circling every star … before we had the “proof”