re fifth amendment and passwords in article c jzsz jzo cs uiuc edu kadie cs uiuc edu carl m kadie writes ashall magnus acs ohio state edu andrew s hall writes i am postive someone will correct me if i am wrong but doesn t the fifth also cover not being forced to do actions that are self incriminating from mike godwin mnemonic eff org posted with permission carl no but they could compell you to produce the key to a safe where as it happens evidence that will convict you is stored the crypto key disclosure issue hasn t come up yet but current law suggests that it s a loser for the defendant he ll be compelled to turn over the key the test for compelled self incrimination is whether the material to be disclosed in itself tends to inculpate the discloser in the example i gave above the safe key itself has no testimonial value ergo it can be disclosed under compulsion e g subpoena duces tecum moreover the government can always immunize the disclosure of a crypto key compelling you to disclose the key at the price of not using the fact of your disclosure as evidence in the case against you of course they can use whatever they discover as a result of this disclosure against you mike lets carry this one step further suppose the text of the key is in itself conclusive evidence of the same crime for which the encrypted material is further evidence i find myself envisaging a scenario like this you have made some scans of peanuts strips you encrypt them the key is a phrase the comic police haul you in they seize your system they find the encrypted file cp whats that file you i take the fifth cp what s the keyphrase to that file you i take the fifth judge you have to reveal the keyphrase i disagree but i m not a judge you your honor revealing the keyphrase in it s own right would tend to incriminate me of breaking laws independent of what may or may not be in the encrypted file judge i grant you immunity from whatever may be learned from the key itself you the keyphrase is i confess to deliberately evading copyright the file encoded with this keyphrase contains illegal scans of copyrighted peanuts strips judge and cp oh how will they get you now i m not saying that they won t or can t or even that they shouldn t but what legal mechanism will they use should we be crossposting this to misc legal peter trei ptrei mitre org
