re sspx schism in article apr geneva rutgers edu shellgate llo uu psi com larry l overacker writes you ask where we are i would echo that question i m not trying to be contentious but assuming that the pope has universal jurisdiction and authority what authority do you rely upon for your decisions what prevents me from choosing any doctrine i like and saying that papal disagreement is an error that will be resolved in time this is especially true since councils of bishops have basically stood by the pope the ultimate question is the traditional theology of the church this is the only thing that it is possible to resist a pope for his departure from the traditional doctrine of the church if commands from any authority conflict with tradition the commands must be disobeyed my own view on this is that this conflict could only happen in a major way god would never allow a hair splitting situation to develop it would be too complex for people to figure out i don t view the present situation in the church as anything extremely complicated run through a list of what has happened in the last years in the catholic church and any impartial observer will be aghast it appears that much of what lies at the heart of this matter is disagreements over what is tradition and tradition and also over authority and discipline the problems stem from a general widespread ignorance of the catholic faith in my opinion most catholics know about zilch about the catholic faith this leaves them wide open for destruction by erring bishops it s basically the reformation part ii there is not even a question in my mind that in some respects the shards of the catholic church are currently being trampled upon by the catholic hierarchy i could go on listing shocking things for an hour probably take the situation in campos brazil for example i m reading a book on what happened there after vatican council ii the bishop antonio de castro mayer never introduced all the changes that followed in the wake of vatican ii he kept the traditional mass the same old catechisms etc he made sure the people knew their faith the catholic theology of obedience what modernism was etc he innoculated the people against what was coming well one day the order came from rome for his retirement it came when the pope was sick bishop de castro mayer waited until the pope recovered then inquired whether this command was what the pope really wanted or something that some liberal had commanded in his absence the pope confirmed the decision so the good bishop retired the injustice that followed was completely incredible a new bishop was installed he proceeded to expel most of bishop de castro mayer s clergy from their churches because they refused to celebrate the new mass the new bishop would visit a parish and celebrate a new mass the people would promptly walk out of the church en masse the bishop was enraged by this he usually resorted to enlisting the help of the secular authorities to eject the priest from the church the priests would just start building new churches the people were completely behind them the old parishes had the new mass as the bishop desired and virtually no parishioners the prime motivation for all this was completely illegal according to canon law no priest can be penalized in any way for saying the traditional mass because of legislation enacted by pope saint pius v nor is there any obligation to say the new mass during all this process the people of campos not just private individuals but including civil authorities were constantly sending petitions and letters to rome to do something about the new modernist bishop nothing was ever done no help ever arrived from rome eventually priests were kicked out and about people my question to the supporters of sspx is this is there any way that your positions with respect to church reforms could change and be conformed to those of the pope assuming that the pope s position does not change and that the leaders of sspx don t jointly make such choice if not this appears to be claiming infallible teaching authority if i adopt the view that i m not wrong i can t be wrong and there s no way i ll change my mind you must change yours that i ve either left the catholic church or it has left me if the pope defines certain things ex cathedra that would be the end of the controversy that process is all very well understood in catholic theology and anyone who doesn t go along with it is an instant non catholic the problem here is that people do not appreciate what is going on in the catholic world if they knew the faith and what our bishops are doing they would be shocked we sould argue from now until the second coming about what the real traditional teaching of the church is if this were a simple matter east and west would not have been separated for over years this isn t the case in the catholic church there is a massive body of traditional teaching the popes of the last years are especially relevant there is no question at all what the traditional doctrine is i thought that the teaching magisterieum of the church did not allow error in teachings regarding faith and morals even in the short term i may be wrong here i m not roman catholic that s heresy more or less although they have done a great job since the reformation the last years have seen so many errors spread that it s pitiful infallibility rests in the pope and in the church as a whole in the short term a pope or large sections of the church can go astray in fact that s what usually happens during a major heresy large sections of the church go astray the pope historically has been much more reliable everything will always come back in the long run what would be the effect of a pope making an ex cathedra statement regarding the sspx situation would it be honored if not how do you get around the formal doctrine of infallibility again i m not trying to be contentions i m trying to understand since i m orthodox i ve got no real vested interest in the outcome one way or the other yes it would be honored infallibility is infallibility but what is he going to define that the new mass is a better expression of the catholic faith than the old that sex education in the catholic schools is wonderful that all religions are wonderful except for that professed by the popes prior to vatican ii it does if the command was legitimate sspx does not view the pope s commands as legitimate why this is a very slippery slope not really start studying the major catholic theologians of the last years everything is very well spelled out the west excels at critical thought remember that s what catholic theologians have been busy at for centuries
