lds rick s reply rick anderson replied to my letter with ra in article c elp l c acsu buffalo edu ra psyrobtw ubvmsb cc buffalo edu robert weiss says ra ra well jason it s heretical in a few ways the first point is that ra this equates lucifer and jesus as being the same type of being ra however lucifer is a created being thou wast perfect in thy ra ways from the day that thou wast created till iniquity was found in ra thee ezekiel while jesus is uncreated and the creator of ra all things in the beginning was the word and the word was with ra god and the word was god the same was in the beginning with god ra all things were made by him and without him was not any thing made ra that was made john and he is before all things and by ra him all things consist colossians ra ra your inference from the ezekiel and john passages that lucifer was ra created and that jesus was not depends on a particular interpetation of ra the word create one with which many christians may not agree ra granted the mormon belief that all of god s children including christ ra and lucifer are eternally existent intelligences which were organized ra into spirit children by god the term creation can apply equally well ra to both of those passages just briefly on something that you mentioned in passing you refer to differing interpretations of create and say that many christians may not agree so what that is really irrelevant we do not base our faith on how many people think one way or another do we the bottom line is truth regardless of popularity of opinions also i find it rather strange that in trying to persuade that created and eternally existent are equivalent you say granted the mormon belief you can t grant your conclusion and then expect the point to have been addressed in order to reply to the issue you have to address and answer the point that was raised and not just jump to the conclusion that you grant the bible states that lucifer was created the bible states that jesus is the creator of all the contradiction that we have is that the lds belief is that jesus and lucifer were the same ra your point that we all are brothers of jesus and lucifer is also ra heretical since we are not innately brothers and sisters of christ ra we are adopted for ye have not received the spirit of bondage ra again to fear but ye have received the spirit of adoption whereby ra we cry abba father romans and not the natural children ra of god it is only through faith that we even enter the family of ra god for ye are all the children of god by faith in christ jesus ra galatians and it is only through the manifestation of this ra faith in receiving jesus that we are become the sons of god but ra as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of ra god even to them that believe on his name which were born not ra of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but ra of god john ra ra has it occured to you robert that being born of someone or being ra of that person or person s family may be a symbolic term in the new ra testament mormons believe that we are adopted into the house of ra israel through baptism and faith in christ although some have expressed ra belief that this does evince a physical change in our bodies the mormon belief is that all are children of god literally there is nothing symbolic about it this however contradicts what the bible says the bible teaches that not everyone is a child of god the field is the world the good seed are the children of the kingdom but the tares are the children of the wicked one matthew i speak that which i have seen with my father and ye do that which ye have seen with your father john ye do the deeds of your father then said they to him we be not born of fornication we have one father even god jesus said unto them if god were your father ye would love me for i proceeded forth and came from god neither came i of myself but he sent me why do ye not understand my speech even because ye cannot hear my word ye are of your father the devil and the lusts of your father ye will do he was a murderer from the beginning and abode not in the truth because there is no truth in him when he speaketh a lie he speaketh of his own for he is a liar and the father of it john and said o full of all subtilty and all mischief thou child of the devil thou enemy of all righteousness wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the lord acts wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world according to the prince of the power of the air the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience ephesians in this the children of god are manifest and the children of the devil whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of god neither he that loveth not his brother john one becomes a child of god but as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of god even to them that believe on his name john behold what manner of love the father hath bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of god therefore the world knoweth us not because it knew him not beloved now are we the sons of god and it doth not yet appear what we shall be but we know that when he shall appear we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is john when he is born again through faith in jesus christ which were born not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man but of god john having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by jesus christ to himself according to the good pleasure of his will ephesians of his own will begat he us with the word of truth that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures james for as many as are led by the spirit of god they are the sons of god for ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear but ye have received the spirit of adoption whereby we cry abba father the spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of god romans beloved let us love one another for love is of god and every one that loveth is born of god and knoweth god john whosoever believeth that jesus is the christ is born of god and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him john for ye are all the children of god by faith in christ jesus galatians ra we are told that and this is life eternal that they might know ra thee the only true god and jesus christ whom thou hast sent ra john life eternal is to know the only true god yet the ra doctrines of the lds that i have mentioned portray a vastly ra different jesus a jesus that cannot be reconciled with the jesus of ra the bible they are so far removed from each other that to proclaim ra one as being true denies the other from being true according to the ra bible eternal life is dependent on knowing the only true god and ra not the construct of imagination ra ra ra robert with all due respect who died and left you chief arbiter of ra correct biblical interpretation i don t mean to be snotty about this ra but the fact is that the bible is so differently interpreted by different ra groups of biblical scholars what do you think of the jehovah s ra witnesses for example that to make reference to the jesus of the ra bible is simply ridiculous whose jesus of the bible do you mean this is really a red herring it doesn t address any issue raised but rather it seeks to obfuscate the fact that some groups try to read something into the bible doesn t change what the bible teaches for example the fact that the jehovah s witnesses deny the deity of christ does not alter what the bible teaches looking for that blessed hope and the glorious appearing of the great god and our saviour jesus christ titus simon peter a servant and an apostle of jesus christ to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of god and our saviour jesus christ peter on the deity of christ we first look to the bible to see what it teaches to discount or not even address what the bible teaches because there are some groups that have differing views is self defeating to see what the bible teaches you have to look at the bible ra our lord s mortality was essential to his own salvation the ra promised messiah p he had to work out his own salvation by ra doing the will of the father in all things ibid p he had ra to be baptized to gain admission to the celestial kingdom mormon ra doctrine p ra ra welcome to the wonderful world of mormon paradoctrine robert the ra above books are by the late bruce r mcconkie a former general authority ra of the lds church those books were not published by the church nor do ra they constitute offical doctrine they consist of his opinions now ra does that mean that what he says is not true not at all i ll have to ra think about the idea of christ s personal salvation before i come to any ra conclusions myself the conclusions i come to may seem heretical to ra you but i m prepared to accept that i find this rather curious when i mentioned that the mormon belief is that jesus needed to be saved i put forward some quotes from the late apostle bruce mcconkie the curious part is that no one addressed the issue of jesus needing to be saved rick comes the closest with his i have my own conclusions to addressing the point most of the other replies have instead hop scotched to the issue of bruce mcconkie and whether his views were official doctrine i don t think that it matters if mcconkie s views were canon that is not the issue were mcconkie s writings indicative of mormon belief on this subject is the real issue the indication from rick is that they may certainly be robert weiss psyrobtw ubvms cc buffalo edu
