re white and black racism was about the phillies in article quonm c network ucsd edu king cogsci ucsd edu jonathan king writes there s too many s here for my taste by now which means i ve reached my maximum depth on this thread i ve cut out some things below but nothing that should affect the sense of the discussion i agree i ll delete more as well fester island com mike fester writes king cogsci ucsd edu jonathan king writes perhaps you can give a more recent citation of any player mentioned as a malingerer thanks i guess i don t understand your question i was trying to imply that the accusations of glenn davis malingering were certainly not played up very much still if the whispers reached san francisco it is certainly possible they were stronger elsewhere also it was teammates making the aspersions in any event i know of no other player to be maligned in the last couple years but in any case i believe mike lavalliere has been accused of poor work habits and general sloth recently probably not malingering just as he was being released it s interesting that nobody heard much about these problems before if they were so important i have heard sanders called many things as well i have not heard him called lazy given the sport phenomenon it would be difficult to label him as such exactly so which means his media detractors have had to say other things about him i believe it s a general phenomenon that if writers don t like you they ll find a label that will stick no matter who you are i find myself more interested in the selection of labels than in why writers feel they need to act this way not that this fascinates me that much either uh the original author s point was that black and white players were por trayed differently by the media and towards this he gave a highly selected list to prove his case sanders name showed up eventually i dispute that sanders has ever been called lazy by the media hmm big ego possible club house disturbance etc is that good press no but it isn t the total extent of the press he received in pittsburgh where he was called all kinds of things including lazy and spoiled by the local columnists again the actual words used may shift around with time and expediency but lazy tends to be higher on the list for non white players at least in my subjective opinion aside it might be interesting for somebody to do an archival study on player descriptions before and after the color barrier was broken and on teams like the red sox which have been traditionally white nowadays most people think of carl yastrzemski as one of those blue collar hard working guys but in the early s he was often portrayed as a lazy bum really hmm i never heard anyone accuse canseco of being lazy nor sierra i ve heard accusations that canseco was a bad fielder but could be a great one if he put his mind to it ignoring whether or not he is a actually dave stewart is was one of the most vocal about this in any event that is not lazy at least one poster in the last week has fired off a major screed on the canseco is lazy issue so i think your point is at best a quibble and probably weaker than that uh that poster specifically stated allow me to be the first it is not a quibble then to state that the media did not portray canseco as being lazy if the other person chooses to so accuse him after my post that does not make it a quibble and in fact the media around here tend ed to play up his time in the wieght room hardly lazy and hardly a quibble have you ever seen any mediot portray canseco as lazy unconcerned with his fielding yes lazy no bad fielder i think this is still interesting for that matter i think canseco s colorful off field antics get lots more national attention than those of say roger clemens well he s had a few more of them at least more that you ve heard about i think one of the questions here surrounds selective reporting having said that i have to say that the selective reporting hypothesis has the potential to be unfalsifiable at least by those of us who aren t reporters police or private investigators well canseco has been involved in several felonies including his high speed record carrying concealed fire arms and of course the domestic violence clemens had a run in at a bar canseco had that as well and in both cases the coverage was relatively minimal puckett stewart jackson i said over represent non whites three anecdotal data points don t make an interesting counter argument btw which jackson are we talking about here reggie bo darrin danny or uh if the only evidence offered is anecdotal how can it be objected that the counter to it is also anecdotal and it seems like everybody who has ever won a batting title among others has been accused at some time of caring more for his own stats than for the good of the team it also seems to me that you re kirby puckett i have never heard this accusation made of puckett i have heard it of boggs actually i believe it of him but that s another matter not living in minnesota i can t say whether or not this line has ever been used against kirby there as far as boggs goes i m not sure why you bring him up since he s one of the obvious prototypes for the line i quoted along with ted williams rod carew and many others uh yes and i agree with your assesment of boggs rather specifically however you did say everybody who has ever won a batting title has been accused of selfishness i have not ever anywhere heard this said of puckett pendleton either similarly brett b williams and others how about daryl strawberry and i think the plus or minus refers more to the born again types ie butler and gaetti again you seem to be making an argument from anecdotes on the other hand my argument by is of the because jon says so variety if we have no other data i have to admit i have problems generating lists of non white players who became in famous for their religious or political beliefs while names like butler gaetti dravecky knepper hersheiser et al come rolling out there are others perhaps they are simply not as outspoken except in the case of the born again types i mention mike
