re israel an apartheid state in article sn lm f j cville srv wam umd edu aap wam umd edu alberto adolfo pinkas writes in article may colorado edu perlman qso colorado edu eric s perlman writes so far you have presented your opinions as opposed to mine i would hardly take them as facts because you don t agree with them hmm no because a fact and an opinion are two different things what you are expressing here are opinions not facts in the abstract what you re saying is true but the facts happen to agree with me and disagree completely with you i could give you hundreds of words in my mother tongue spanish that are comonly use and you will never find in a dictionary even more i could show you a lot of meanings that words in spanish have different from those in the dictionary we re talking about the latter not the former and what you re talking about is slang in the latter that clearly has never been the case here no i am not talking about slang i am talking about different uses of the same language in different places listen pinkas i m going to count on the supposition that you think through the opinions you have something which is by the way against my better judgment based on what i ve seen from you to date we are agreed aren t we that dictionaries are reference books for the usage of a given language and in particular for the meanings of the words and phrases which comprise that language now you are using meanings completely different from indeed in some cases diametrically different from those given in the dictionary as a reference book a dictionary contains those meanings in both past and as much as it can in current use that s also why they are updated so often now if you are saying things which you give different meanings than the dictionary does and using non standard meanings about every word what is your chance of being taken at face value just about none just about no one will take you that way because the words mean something different to them it s quite clear to me from the response this thread has been getting that that is exactly what is happening ponder that and guess why isn t it curious that we do not know how many people define in how many different ways the term jew which is the basis of the movement itself no probably because the question hasn t been asked gee i hate it when people draw conclusions without information don t you i hate people who cannot read i did not draw any conclusion i just said that it is curious considering how heterogeneous the movement is what you did was ask a leading question in english idiom the phrase and guess why in the way you used it is a loaded question with only one answer expected i also take offense at being told i cannot read by someone who is obviously having trouble with the subject himself mr pinkas i am a phd candidate in my field one does not get to phd candidacy if one cannot read the law of return and jewish nationality is defined in terms of religion and not of cultural identity even if of those defined as jews in isreal are not religious for the umpteenth time it is not defined in terms of religion this has been proven to you over and over again no it has not the law of return defines a jew as someone who has a jewish mother and has not converted to another religion that is pretty the same as the religious definition that is a problem i am saying that i do not support zionism as it is now i believe that among the people in the soviet communist party some might even had been inspired by noble ideals does that change the final results of what happened in the ussr are you now wishing to compare the ussr and israel or what israel does not practice cruelty now i understand you are unable to make abstractions you cannot get the idea from a text and you take everything literally bad thing balderdash you know this is false i would be able to make the abstraction if it bore any resemblance to the facts of the matter yours did not the analogy is utterly inapplicable i wouldn t be in the field i m in astrophysics if i couldn t make abstractions and speculate about the general grand scheme of things i also wouldn t be in education which i am and my students give me rather good reviews i d add if i couldn t draw such analogies about israel not practicing cruelty ask those palestinians in israeli prisons those who were tortured those whose houses had been blown by the army the vast majority of palestinians in israeli prisons aren t tortured and their houses weren t blown up by the army in fact you ve seen me protesting such measures on this net before are you now trying to intimate my agreement with them i never said it directly nor indirectly i am not talking about individuals who defined themselves as zionists here i am sure most of them are good honest and caring people i am talking about the results of the zionist movement in other words you are taking that as a monolith and ignoring the dissension within it disagreement that is expressed freely and is widely based just as bad can you read or are you just typing at random do you know the meanings of the words you use or do you expect the reader to read your mind i can read just fine thank you and i don t need someone who is obviously having some troubles with a tongue which isn t his native one telling me how to read the words in my own native tongue if it were spanish i d ask you i am talking about a movement whose actions resulted in a law of return with a religious definition of jew a country that defines nationality based on religion then you re not talking about the movement as it exists today as i ve been trying to tell you please read the arguments i ve given you if you can still say this after reading them you need to read them again i am talking about something i consider a form of racism such as differenciation based on religious belief after all if arabs in israel cannot serve in the army is becasue they were not born in the right religion arabs in israel not only can but do serve in the idf as you well know they can serve it is true but they are not allowed to do the all the same things as the israeli citizens who happen to be jews yes they are as you well know ok fine now we know what you re talking about but do you see my point about how your words could easily have been taken differently it is not we it was you as in the second person in singular who cannot understand a text if things are not explicitly said balderdash see above once again you have a lot of gall and absolutely no right to lecture a native speaker of a language who is well educated in it in a language which isn t your own native tongue and with which you re obviously having problems so there is no difference between citizenship and nationality in israel or what do you mean by actually it doesn t i mean exactly that arab and jewish citizens of israel have the same rights if there is no difference between them why keeping them in id s better yet are you going to tell me that there are no differences in social life between arabs and jews social life is one thing legal status is another once again this is a leading question so it follows a religious definition and not a cultural one that is what i call a form of racism no because the jewish religion and culture are intimately inseparably intertwined if one renounces judaism one renounces judaism i do not believe that this is true final question is it possible to be both jewish and muslim jewish and christian your response will be enlightening how sad to see a model of decorum and tranquillity become like any other sport a battleground for rival ideologies to slug it out with glee tim rice chess eric s perlman perlman qso colorado edu center for astrophysics and space astronomy university of colorado boulder
