re rw is robert weiss the only orthodox christian in article c vgyd h s acsu buffalo edu psyrobtw ubvmsd cc buffalo edu robert weiss writes in article librba byuvm bitnet librba byuvm bitnet writes rick anderson writes ra robert you keep making references to orthodox belief and saying ra things like it is held that cf kermit thread on what ra exact body of theology are you drawing for what you call orthodox orthodox is a compound word it comes from orthos straight true right and from doxa opinion doctrine teaching i use orthodox to refer to right teaching as opposed to universal or catholic or foursquare gosple i think that the greek orthodox church would take high offense at your misuse of the word your version of christianity is neither mainstream nor bible derived you make claims of bible centricity that are not derivable soley from the bible about six seven months ago you claimed that your primary objection to the lds was that our doctrine was not bible derived and now this and other claims can be shown are also not bible interpeting bible right teaching is derived from letting god speak to us through the bible this can be from reading simple truths in the scriptures and by using the bible to interpret the bible simple truths oh for example ra who is that holds that luke meant what you said he meant i think that it is apparent from reading the scriptures that are pertinent luke records christ s promise to the repentant thief who hung on an adjacent cross truly i say to you today you will be with me in paradise but was it not until later that christ rose from the dead and ascended to heaven if christ himself was not in heaven until sunday how could the repentant thief have been there with him the answer lies in the location of paradise when jesus died apparently paradise was not exalted to heaven until easter day paradise exalted to heaven paradise wasn t equal to heaven and now it is yet you claim that peeple can not be exalted to heaven nicht wahr jesus refers to it in the middle of the story of the rich man and lazarus as abraham s bosom to which the godly beggar lazarus was carried by the angels after his decease luke thus abraham s bosom referred to the place where the souls of the redeemed waited till the day of christ s resurrection when i read the story i found that abraham s bosom wasn t so much a place but somewhere the rich man could see and talk to abraham it was not yet lifted to heaven but it may well have been a section of hades hebrew sheol reserved for believers who had died in the faith but would not be admitted into the glorious presence of god in heaven until the price of redemption had actually been paid on calvary or even that none would precede the presence of jesus back to glory with the father gee this is fairly close to what the lds call spirit prison and what you have called false doctrine doubtless it was the infernal paradise that the souls of jesus and the repentant thief repaired after they each died on friday afternoon but on sunday after the risen christ had first appeared to mary magdalene john and her two companions matthew presumably he then took up with him to glory all the inhabitants of infernal paradise including abraham lazarus and the repentant thief we read in ephesians concerning christ ascending on high he led captivity captive he gave gifts unto men vers deleted reproduced below quoted from the sunspot gopher archive presumably he led the whole band of liberated captives from hades i e the whole population of preresurrection paradise up to the glory of heaven this part is not supported from scripture nor does it support your claim that the paradise where christ descended was exalted making such claims on this little evidence ignores the witness of the scripture sun ephas sun wherefore he saith when he ascended up on high he led captivity sun captive and gave gifts unto men sun sun x ref psalms sun thou has ascended on hight thout hast led captivity captive thou has sun recieved gifts for men yea for the rebellious aslo that the lord god sun might dwell amoung them sun sun ephas sun now that he ascended what is it but that he also descended first sun into the lower parts of the earth he that descended is the same sun also that ascended up far above all heavens that he might fill all sun things and he gave some apostles and some prophets and sun some evangelists and some pastors and teachers for the sun perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry for the sun edifying of the body of christ till we all come in the unity of sun the faith and of the knowledge of the son of god unto a perfect man sun unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of christ that we sun henceforth be no more children tossed to and fro and carried about sun with every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men and cunning sun craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive but speaking the sun truth in love may grow up into him in all things which is the head using this to argue that paradise or spirit prison is now changed from a pre easter postion to post easter by god postion is not supportable makeing such a claim requires more evidence than you have given here ra whenever your personal interpretation of biblical passages is ra challenged your only response seems to be that one needs merely to ra look at the bible in order to see the truth but what of those who ra see biblical things differently from you i think that this characterization is faulty whenever my personal interpretation is questioned i usually give a reason yes and your reasons are in general not supported by any direct reading of the scriptures you have demonstrated that you claims to scriptural proof need to be cross checked the referencs that you supply often do not support your postion if they are read in the context of the scripture as for those that see things differently please put forward where there is a valid difference and we can discuss it i seem to be seeing from you the notion that any difference in how one views the bible is somehow legitimate except or course for the stuff that i glean from it put forward a contrary view and perhaps we can have a discussion on that topic but to decry something that i put forward without putting forward something else to discuss and to dismiss what i put forward while giving credence to other alleged views that have yet to be put forward is simply being contentious how about that those who have been in paradise and have accepted the gosple will be judged of jesus christ and then return to the presence of god is that somehow different from your expressed view that the paradise spoken of or abraham s bosom ra are we to simply assume that you are the only one who really ra understands it if you believe that something that i have drawn from scripture is wrong then please show me from scripture where it is wrong simply stating that there are other views is not a proof show it to me from scripture and then we can go on should we go back and discuss your view on why the angle of the lord is the lord again robert weiss psyrobtw ubvms cc buffalo edu kermit tensmeyer intergraph corporation kltensme kt b a ingr com deep in dixie
