re banned game in article rv bc dho network ucsd edu wbruvold weber ucsd edu william bruvold writes in article may midway uchicago edu thf midway uchicago edu writes no it s an example of things are nowhere near as bad as you characterize the united states police kill as many blacks as israel kills palestinians even though the us black population while admittedly larger isn t engaged in a civil war to attempt to destroy the government this probably should not be in this newgroup but mr frank is wrong to use words like civil war or destroy the government in discussing the conflict in the occupied territories re the newsgroup followups set to talk politics mideast where this belongs this may make the term civil war dubious but it does nothing to the phrase destroy the government an occupying government is still a govern ment and the palestinians have made it quite clear that their goal is not simply to prevent it from occupying the territories that don t con fer citizenship which is your own determination of the distinction but to wipe it out entirely and not incidentally the entire jewish population it rules with it this is an intent to destroy the government no matter where the government happens to be from if the current government in isreal would be willing to let all adult individuals who are capable to vote in elections within the defacto boundaries of the isreali state a requirement for being called a democracy in my opinion wasn t a requirement for democracy in athens for that matter isn t a requirement for the term democracy in the united states which doesn t let non citizens vote either both the united states and israel have processes whereby it is possible to acquire citizenship with a great deal of effort and a modicum of screening it s just that it isn t automatic for living in the territories it isn t automatic for living in new york either that said suit yourself having never considered democracy the ultimate in good in this world i could care less if you feel like calling israel or america or anywhere else a democracy personally i withhold the term from israel for the same reason i withhold it from britain the parliamentary system is a serious handicap then mr frank would be correct as the current government neither is willing to enfrachise the vast majority of individuals in the territories or to allow these people to have the right to self determination it is not a civil war or their government rather it is resitance to a foreign occupier again suit yourself in which case israel is not attacking its own people it is fighting a war on foreign soil in which case the residents are entitled to play rough yes but israel s allowed to get just as rough within the bare limits of the rules of war this includes among other things the right to shoot or bomb anyone a national of the coun try in question who is fighting them which permits mass frontal assault on all rock throwers along with the right to take out any installation of military importance certain villages with too good fortifications can be handled by aerial bombing as can waterways since they count as supply lines to the enemy and the right to do anything whatsoever to whatever constitutes a government that they can lay hands on if hamas is trying to set up as the ruling party let them beware if this is not the scenario you want i recommend you go back to calling it a civil war civil wars have to be handled nicer you cannot say the palestinians are a nation fighting a resistance war against a foreign nation and still call israel a government who is treating its own people cruelly if the palestinians are fighting a war against a foreign country so is israel and the gloves come off naomi yes it is bread we may the source of peace fight for but we fight naomi rivkis in the heavens bring peace for roses too rivk midway uchicago edu to us and to all israel
