re zionist leaders frank statements in article bf fc news service uci edu tclock orion oac uci edu tim clock writes in article t muj vt cville srv wam umd edu aap wam umd edu alberto adolfo pinkas writes in article t bph dtr usenet ins cwru edu aa cleveland freenet edu mark ira kaufman writes and if you are jewish you are a self hating jew there can be no doubt of this there are doubts about it why don t you define what self hating jew means i found the idea itself of being a self hating jew to be one of those i hope you can come up with a definition in itself try coming up with your own definition of any or all self hating peoples to me any who reject their culture to the point where they only see the absolute negatives of that culture generally or regarding a particular event and accept only those views purely opposing aspects of that culture thus selective belief in and use of historical facts and a complete ignoring of context results hate their culture i believe that things are getting mixed here critizicing israel and or being anti zionist is not seeing the absolute negatives of that culture maybe because a person can see the positives of that culture is that that person opposes zionism and the actions of the state of israel i for one consider the actions of the state of israel with respect to the human rights of the palestinian people as an example of an action thaty opposes what jewish culture was suppose to uphold as an example of respect and what the jewish people learned about oppresion segregation and years in the diaspora that certainly describes elias since he has no intention of recognizing that alongside the palestinian experience and perspective there exists also that of israelis he might not want to recognize that it does not make him a self hating jew as far as i see it at most he is a person who is not telling the truth who is a jew a person whose integrity decays when unmoved by the knowledge of wrong done to other people a j heschel that is why i get moved when i see the israeli army killing people in the occupied territories as much as i get moved when i see a plestinian stabing people in israel aap and this is precisely why israeli society has been tremendously harmed by the actions it its government has felt it had to take in response to an other perceived as a threat just as with you there has long been a strident and emotional debate about the pain israelis feel when forced to balance desires for survival and moral beliefs the trauma of having to make that choice is made worse by the fact that neither can be conveniently brushed aside as a result of a reasoned political debate for the sake of the other only reshaped but so far it seems that the blame is always put on the other if you read this newsgroup for example israel is never guilty by herself she is always responding to the actions of the other and it goes as if the actions of isreal do not also affect the response of the other in a cycle that never ends also there is blindness to try to understand what the other feels and why there is always and excuse there is always a rationale to explain why things happen as they do and what is the worst part for me there seems to be all the time an intention to try to de humanize the other as if the other did not care about their future children peace etc etc tim clock ph d graduate student aap
