re islamic genocide in article r ek uo fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes in article r ubl bd horus ap mchp sni de frank d s uucp frank o dwyer writes in article r o a qe fido asd sgi com livesey solntze wpd sgi com jon livesey writes noting that a particular society in this case the mainland uk has few religously motivated murders and few murders of any kind says very little about whether inter religion murders elsewhere are religiously motivated no but it allows one to conclude that there is nothing inherent in all religion or for that matter in catholicism and protestantism that motivates one to kill motivates or allows the christian bible says that one may kill under certain circumstances in fact it instructs one to kill under certain circumstances i d say the majority of people have a moral system that instructs them to kill under certain circumstances i do get your distinction between motivate and allow and i do agree that if a flavour of theism allows atoricities then that s an indictment of that theism but it rather depends on what the certain circumstances are when you talk about christianity or islam then at least your claims can be understood it s when people go to a general statement about theism that it falls apart one could believe in a god which instructs one to be utterly harmless for my part i conclude that something else is required i also happen to believe that that something else will work no less well without religion any easy them us will do and what does religion supply if not an easy them us not necessarily love thy neighbour does not supply a them us it demolishes it and my definition of religion is broader than my definition of theism as i have explained by insisting that even the murder of four labourers chosen because they were catholics and who had nothing to do with the ira by protestant extremists is not religously motivated i think what you are saying is that you simply will not accept any murder as being religiously motivated no what about that guy who cut off someone s head because he believed he was the devil incarnate that was religously motivated what about the protestant extremists who killed four catholic labourers that wasn t religiously motivated not in my opinion if they were doing it because of some obscure point of theology then yes but since all protestants don t do this nor do they elect extremists to do it for them it s just too broad too say religion did this i m saying that the causes are far more complex than that take away the religious element and you d still have the powerful motives of revenge and misguided patriotism you know when most catholics and protestants worldwide say stop the killing one might listen to that especially when you claim not to read minds also the murders ensuing from the fatwa on mr rushdie the inquisitions and the many religous wars what s so special about these exceptions isn t this all just a grab bag of ad hoc excuses for not considering some other murders to be religiously motivated what s the general principle behind all this the general principle is that it s fairly clear to me at least that religion is the primary motivator enabler whatever of these it s not nearly so obvious what s going on when one looks at ni apart from violence of course it s not an abstract argument northern irish protestants say we don t want to be absorbed into am officially catholic country now what are we supposed to do are we supposed to reply no that s only what you think you don t want mr o dwyer assures us that no matter what you say you want you really want something else you think the unionists wouldn t mind being absorbed into a non catholic country other than the uk of course it s a terrible thing to lose a mind maybe the word country is there for more than just kicks i certainly don t believe that the unionists are in it for god i think they wish to maintain their position of privilege i m still listening to what they say and you are still telling us your version of what they think you read minds and i don t you ve speculated on my motives often enough and you don t take my statements of my own beliefs at face value therefore your claim not to read minds has no credibility with me sorry i also note that you fail to answer my question it just looks to me very much like you have an axe to grind especially as you are indeed ignoring what most protestants say which is stop the killing the people you refer to are properly described as unionists not protestants as for their position of privilege what is that if not religion based it is based on politics bigotry and heartless extremism none of these things are synonymous with religion though there is certainly some overlap frank o dwyer i m not hatching that odwyer sse ie from hens by evelyn conlon
