re christianity in crisis from bit listserv christia zane writes from facn b saupm bitnet zane of dhahan newsgroups bit listserv christia subject christianity in crisis date wed may frank first of all thanks for all of the great scripture verses it was a pleasure to read them my reply you are welcome zane zane i am sure nothing that i will say will change your mind about it but i would like to ask you if the book in question really does anything for you i mean were you all caught up in the word faith thing but now that you have read the book you ve been rescued from all of the error and pain that will result in your christian life my reply when i first became a christian i entered into the word faith movement it was easy i wasn t grounded in the word of god and sound doctrine when i visited christian book stores the cheapest books i could find to buy were the and books by hagin and others consequently i began receiving hagin s monthly magazine and they still send it to me and also copeland s also still sent to me it wasn t until i read a booklet by jimmy swaggart called hyper faith the new gnosticism that i began to realize the teachings i were partaking of were error i started reading the bible more and studying more sure enough jimmy was right in many points as part of my experience i am alerting christians particularly new christians that these teachings are heretical and they need to do as the bereans did in acts check these teachings out with scripture my brother in law was involved in a word faith cult in my area it s leader is real good friends with benny hinn rather then going into much detail about this suffice it to say he was deceived mistreated and has now fallen into atheism i m still praying for him phil the assistant pastor at the church i teach adult sunday school in has been a follower of copeland for years he has thousands of tapes by the faith teachers in the class recently i quoted several of the teachers heretical statements to his surprise since then i ve been able to talk to him at length about these issues the leader of the women s group at my church is a benny hinn fan recently i found that she has been lending good morning holy spirit to women in the church that prompted my quotes in sunday school as well as my lending cic to people in the church i m well aware of the abuses and heresies perpetrated in this movement and have an urgency in my heart and life to warn people about the heresies what heresies a jesus became sin took on the very nature of the devil and became one with him b jesus death on the cross wasn t enough to atone c jesus was dragged to hell after his death was beat and abused by satan and demons thus finishing our atonement satan was ruling over him there d jesus was born again in hell e jesus died spiritually lost his divinity and reassumed it after the resurrection f we are gods these are heresies documentation will be provided re these teachings upon request zane or what does it do for you is it preventing you from going out and joining up with the word faith movement which you d been contemplating joining for so long but now that you ve read the book you ve been saved from all of that my reply it wasn t christianity in crisis that helped me it was a booklet by swaggart that i mentioned above but cic is much much better tremendous documentation and insights zane i don t have a nice scriptural answer for why i believe it is at best un profitable for christians to engage in this type of activity heresy hunting my reply why do you call it heresy hunting hunting implies it isn t readily accessible or available this movement is the fastest growing movement in christendom hagin has sold over million books and booklets hinn has sold more books in the last couple of years than swindoll and dobson combined fred price has the largest church in terms of seating capacity in the usa doesn t sound like much hunting is needed it is scriptural to expose doctrinal error i gave some verses to you before more can be given most of the epistles were written due to error doctrinal practical in the churches the early church had numerous councils to expose error and heresy it s not a new thing remember luther zane i would like to point out though that historically those who hunt heretics often end up causing a bigger mess than the heretics but this is my un documented opinion my reply if you can provide documentation it would be appreciated read ephesians esp vss and and tell me what causes disunity and immaturity in the body eph till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of god to a perfect man to the measure of the stature of the fullness of christ that we should no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the trickery of men in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting disunity contrary to popular opinion isn t caused by exposing error it s caused by error zane there are many who probably give no place for seeing the scriptures as documenting a spiritual development or growth in its writers but i would suggest that the fiery paul of the letter to the galatians mellows and matures into the one who loses all for the sake of love in the end my reply most scholars believe paul wrote timothy last let s examine his admonitions to tim to ascertain how mellow he had become ti hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me in faith and love which are in christ jesus that good thing which was committed to you keep by the holy spirit who dwells in us this you know that all those in asia have turned away from me among whom are phygellus and hermogenes ti be diligent to present yourself approved to god a worker who does not need to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth but shun profane and idle babblings for they will increase to more ungodliness and their message will spread like cancer hymenaeus and philetus are of this sort who have strayed concerning the truth saying that the resurrection is already past and they overthrow the faith of some ti and a servant of the lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all able to teach patient in humility correcting those who are in opposition if god perhaps will grant them repentance so that they may know the truth and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil having been taken captive by him to do his will ti for of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins led away by various lusts always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth now as jannes and jambres resisted moses so do these also resist the truth men of corrupt minds disapproved concerning the faith but they will progress no further for their folly will be manifest to all as theirs also was ti yes and all who desire to live godly in christ jesus will suffer persecution but evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse deceiving and being deceived but you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of knowing from whom you have learned them and that from childhood you have known the holy scriptures which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in christ jesus all scripture is given by inspiration of god and is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousness that the man of god may be complete thoroughly equipped for every good work ti preach the word be ready in season and out of season convince rebuke exhort with all longsuffering and teaching for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but according to their own desires because they have itching ears they will heap up for themselves teachers and they will turn their ears away from the truth and be turned aside to fables but you be watchful in all things endure afflictions do the work of an evangelist fulfill your ministry ti alexander the coppersmith did me much harm may the lord repay him according to his works you also must beware of him for he has greatly resisted our words zane the picture i have of paul is not of one who goes out of his way to destroy the ministry of wolves but of one who teaches the sheep with many tears the necessity of absolutely not allowing themselves to be transformed into wolves to protect themselves my reply act therefore i testify to you this day that i am innocent of the blood of all men for i have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of god therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock among which the holy spirit has made you overseers to shepherd the church of god which he purchased with his own blood for i know this that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you not sparing the flock also from among yourselves men will rise up speaking perverse things to draw away the disciples after themselves therefore watch and remember that for three years i did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears zane for all the warning paul does it is of note that he never once drops a name of a wolf but i will admit he cries in his beard at the end over those who have abandoned him everyone in asia wasn t it my reply paul mentioned names ti this charge i commit to you son timothy according to the prophecies previously made concerning you that by them you may wage the good warfare having faith and a good conscience which some having rejected concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck of whom are hymenaeus and alexander whom i delivered to satan that they may learn not to blaspheme ti this you know that all those in asia have turned away from me among whom are phygellus and hermogenes ti but shun profane and idle babblings for they will increase to more ungodliness and their message will spread like cancer hymenaeus and philetus are of this sort who have strayed concerning the truth saying that the resurrection is already past and they overthrow the faith of some ti for demas has forsaken me having loved this present world and has departed for thessalonica crescens for galatia titus for dalmatia ti alexander the coppersmith did me much harm may the lord repay him according to his works you also must beware of him for he has greatly resisted our words so did john jo i wrote to the church but diotrephes who loves to have the preeminence among them does not receive us therefore if i come i will call to mind his deeds which he does prating against us with malicious words and not content with that he himself does not receive the brethren and forbids those who wish to putting them out of the church jesus also singled out teachings and doctrines rev but i have a few things against you because you have there those who hold the doctrine of balaam who taught balak to put a stumbling block before the children of israel to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the nicolaitans which thing i hate repent or else i will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth rev nevertheless i have a few things against you because you allow that woman jezebel who calls herself a prophetess to teach and seduce my servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols and i gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality and she did not repent indeed i will cast her into a sickbed and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation unless they repent of their deeds i will kill her children with death and all the churches shall know that i am he who searches the minds and hearts and i will give to each one of you according to your works zane i question too the purposes of those who write books and build ministries on the faults deliberate or otherwise of others maybe if they would wander around in the desert eating locust and honey or barely cakes with no worldly goods at stake money to be made or no reputations to maintain i would question their motives conscious or otherwise less my reply i won t comment on this because it deals with the intangible motives of others but even if they had bad motives remember what paul said phi some indeed preach christ even from envy and strife and some also from good will the former preach christ from selfish ambition not sincerely supposing to add affliction to my chains but the latter out of love knowing that i am appointed for the defense of the gospel what then only that in every way whether in pretense or in truth christ is preached and in this i rejoice yes and will rejoice zane if we want to be true to the admonitions of scripture many of which you list about protecting ourselves and the flock from wolves and winds of doctrines i suggest we start by allowing the wolf program in our own noetic pasture to be nailed to the cross my reply please explain zane secondly i suggest any heresy hunting be restricted to our own fellowships which in the strict scriptural sense is the local city church my reply if heresy was not being propagated over the mass media then it may not be needed to go mass media with the exposure unfortunately heresy is being taught not just in copeland s church or hagin s or hinn s or price s but all over the radio in print etc no pastor or church leader knows what materials the sheep are feeding on outside the church it s imperative that leadership be made aware of this and cic does just that also let s examine a passage of scripture eph and he himself gave some to be apostles some prophets some evangelists and some pastors and teachers eph for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry for the edifying of the body of christ these ministry gifts that the lord installs in the church are not just for one individual church but for the body of christ paul was an apostle he traveled all over distilling his message he was also a teacher co for this reason i have sent timothy to you who is my beloved and faithful son in the lord who will remind you of my ways in christ as i teach everywhere in every church co but as god has distributed to each one as the lord has called each one so let him walk and so i ordain in all the churches also co and god has appointed these in the church first apostles second prophets third teachers after that miracles then gifts of healings helps administrations varieties of tongues eph till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of god to a perfect man to the measure of the stature of the fullness of christ notice that the five fold ministries are going to be around till the church is in unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the son of god to a perfect man this i believe will not occur fully until the lord jesus returns see cor but god wants the body to continue on maturing what hinders maturity and unity of the body eph that we should no longer be children tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the trickery of men in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting it s clear that false doctrine integrated into the church by the trickery of men causes disunity the thing we are striving for and spiritual immaturity the church continues in spiritual childhood when christians are tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine the five fold ministry of which there does not appear to be clear scriptural denominational boundaries pastors appear responsible for their individual flock is to deal with these doctrines when necessary in their struggle to equip the body all believers are called to do this to a degree jud beloved while i was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation i found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints for certain men have crept in unnoticed who long ago were marked out for this condemnation ungodly men who turn the grace of our god into lewdness and deny the only lord god and our lord jesus christ zane if you ll notice in scripture the heresy hunters that went from church to church and area to area were the bad guys and they went after the good guy namely paul who they considered to be the arch heretic my reply they were themselves heretics trying to discredit paul who was preaching contrary to what they taught zane let s face it the wolves are here for a reason and we are here for the reason and let s hope the wolves become sheep and the sheep lambs my reply yes ti and a servant of the lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all able to teach patient in humility correcting those who are in opposition if god perhaps will grant them repentance so that they may know the truth and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil having been taken captive by him to do his will amen frank if one wished to contend with him he could not answer him one time out of a thousand job
