re rejoinder questions to israelis in article igc apc org center for policy research cpr igc apc org writes from center for policy research cpr subject rejoinder questions to israelis to shaig think com subject ten questions to israelis dear shai in the answer to my first question concerning the nonexistence of israeli nationality your answer conflicts with information i have received from other quarters according to which there are two distinct categories of classifying israelis citizenship ezrahut and nationality le um the former is used on passports etc and the later for daily identification in israeli society i am told that people in israel have to carry their id cards at all times and present them at many public places almost every day these id cards make clear who the holder is a jew or an arab you maintain that this mainly because of religious services provided but do you really believe that this is the reason could you provide evidence that this is the case and that it serves no other purpose a number of points you are making assumptions about the manner in which the cards are used true by law all residents citizens and tourists must carry a form of identification with them for citizens the standard id is the id card the purpose this serves on a daily basis wherein they are presented at public places is for the purpose of identifying the bearer this takes place in banks cashing checks post offices registered mail and such etc quite frankly it was rare that i ever had to present my id card for such activities more than once per week there is no law or requirement that forces people to wave their id cards in public furthermore none of the services i outlined discriminate against the bearer in any manner by having access to this information the only case that i can think of in which the le um field might be taken into account is during interaction with the police based upon the scenario in general though arab citizens are clearly recognizable as are non arabs your argument therefore becomes moot unless you can provide an example of how this field is being used to discriminate against them officially in the answer to my second questions concerning the fact that israel has no fixed borders you state that israel s borders were shaped and reshaped by both war and peace according to what i read the first zionists in the beginning of the century had plans for the jewish state to extend into what is lebanon and into transjordan jordan i also read that it was the express wish of ben gurion to not declare israel s borders when israel was established as this might restrict israel s opportunities for later expansion israel often claims it right of existence on the fact that jews lived there years ago or that god promised the land to them but according to biblical sources the area god promised would extend all the way to iraq and what were the borders in biblical times which israel considers proper to use today finally if israel wants peace why can t it declare what it considers its legitimate and secure borders which might be a base for negotiations having all the above facts in mind one cannot blame arab countries to fear israeli expansionism as a number of wars have proved i take issue with your assertions i think that arab countries do know that they have nothing to fear from israeli expansionism militarily israel is not capable of holding onto large tracts of land under occupation to a hostile armed and insurgent population for a sustained period of time as is the intifada is heavily taxing the israeli economy proof of this can be seen in the israeli withdrawal from lebanon israeli troops pulled back from the awali and later from the litani in order to control the minimal strip needed to keep towns out of range of katyusha missile fire public opinion in israel has turned towards settling the intifada via territorial concessions the israel public is sufferring from battle fatigue of sorts and the gov t is aware of it with regards to borders let me state the following i may not agree with the manner in which negotiations are being held however the crux of the matter is that everyone either makes or refrains from stating a starting position the arab parties have called for total withdrawal and a return to pre borders if israel were to state large borders the negotiations might never get under way if israel were to state smaller borders then the arab countries might try and force even smaller borders during the negotiations i think that leaving the matter to be settled by negotiations and peace treaties is infinitely more realistic and sensible your answer to my third question is typical of a stalinist public official i don t think your answer is honest you refer me to vanunu s revelations about israel s nuclear arsenal without evaluating the truthfullness of his revelations now if he said the truth then why should he been punished and if he lied why should he be punished i would appreciate more honesty your statement is typical of the simple minded naivety of a center for policy research whether or not all of vanunu s revelations were true has no bearing on the fact that some were for disclosing state secrets after having signed contracts and forms with the understanding that said secrets are not to be made public one should be punished as to which were and which weren t i am under no moral obligation to disclose that quite the reverse in fact he was taken to court tried and found guilty you may take issue with a number of things but clearly you have no understanding of the concept of secrets of state something which every democratic govt has somebody provided an answer to the fourth question concerning hidden prisoners in israeli prisons he posted an article from ma ariv documenting such cases it seems that such prisoners do exist in israel what do you think about that i noticed that he was documenting the fact that such prisoners could exist more than he documented the fact that they do exist the clu noted which you evidently did not pay attention to that they know of no such reports or cases i am sorry to tell you but in a country of mill as tightly knit as israel even if the matter of the arrest was not made public within a relatively short time frame most people would know about it my own feelings are that the matter of the arrest should be made public unless a court order is issued allowing a delay of x hours this would be granted only if a judge could be convinced that an announcement would cause irreparable harm to the ongoing investigation you imply that my questions show bias and are formulated in such a way to cast aspersions upon israel such terms have often been used by the soviet union against dissidents they call the soviet union into disrepute if my questions are not disturbing they would not call forth such hysterical answers my questions are clearly provocative but they are meant to seek facts i would be very happy if you could convince me that what i am told about israel were just fabrications but alas you have failed to do so i suspect that you fear the truth and an open and honest discussion this is a sign of weakness not of strength well i am sorry to say that your questions are slanted such questions are often termed tabloid journalism and are not disturbing because they avoid any attempt at objectivity such questions were often used during the mccarthy era as a basis for the witch hunts that took place then to use your own example these questions might have been lifted from the format used by stalinist prosecutors that were looking for small bits of evidence that they could distort and portray as a larger and dirtier picture my answers were not any more hysterical than the questions themselves the problem is not that the q s were provocative it was that they were selective in their fact seeking you fall into the same category of those who seek yes no answers when the real answer is of sorts i suspect that as long as the answers to these questions is not an unequivocal no you would remain unsatified and choose to interprete them as you see fit a sign of strength is the ability to look you remind me of those mistaken environmentalists who once advocated culling wolves because of the cruelty to deer only to find that they had broken the food chain and wreaked havoc upon the very environment they sought to protect the color blindness you exhibit is a true sign of weakness i hope you will muster the courage to seek the full truth ditto shai guday stealth bombers os software engineer thinking machines corp the winged ninja of the skies cambridge ma
