re who s next mormons and jews isaac kuo saackuo spam berkeley edu writes in article isscck byuvm bitnet casper c knies isscck byuvm b gedaliah friedenberg friedenb maple egr msu edu writes as a latter day saint i found john s statement not at all ludicrous please allow me to explain myself in the governor of missouri governor boggs issued his so called mormon extermination order the only crime illegal activity the latter day saints had committed was their religious affiliation their anti slave stance missouri still allowed slave practices and their growing numbers influence in missouri i guess the mormons got what they deserved because they refused to bow to the will of corrupt and evil secular authorities this disobedience brought upon them persecution murder and finally forced expulsion from their lands and settlements it is significant to remember that these secular positions were held by average people and that at the time almost all americans were pretty homogeonously christian it was largely the mainstream christian s disgust at such practices as polygamy which resulted in their irrational hatred true but that is exactly the problem the mormon extermination order was issued not just by a christian it was allowed under the constitution of the united states which was instituted precisely to prevent incidents like this order from occurring in the first place as i indicated in an earlier posting your irrational hatred is clearly evidenced by individuals like robert weiss who could have been gov boggs lieutenant he would have fitted right in drewling et al and seems a modern day occurrence based on results slander persecution misrepresentation lies denying mormons representation in their own user group etc etc in intent and purpose what really has changed the situation is not entirely different today many irrational feelings and beliefs are justified through religion i don t think most of them are started because of religion but religion certainly helps justify and perpetuate prejudices and practices by providing a neat justification which discourages critical thought true as evidenced by numerous examples as i am sure you re aware in any regard mormon history alone indicates that secular authorities and i don t even discuss how uthan s were suckered into allowing part of their lands in becoming nerve gas and atomic bomb testing grounds is far from being trusted or righteous have things really changed for the better i may be a born cynic but i have no reason whatsoever that such has been the case in the early s i believe the late president kimball lds church leader strongly protested federal attempts to locate the mx peace keeper missile maze from being built in utah yet another inspired decision from secular authorities fortunately his opposition was influential enough for the feds to back off do you mean that the secular authorities are some continuous group of people with the common and uninterrupted goal of harrassing eradicating the mormons do you honestly believe that the main reason for using utah for nuclear testing etc was to get them thar mormons and what about the majority of uthan s who aren t mormons you seem to be searching for enemy correction the majority of utahn s are mormon i believe up to a in many cities and settlements throughout the western states conspiracies it is paranoid to believe that everything that affects you badly must have been done primarily for that purpose what i mean is that secular authorities are to be watched as we believe that satan has been given some power and dominion over the earth to divert truth judgment and justice in addition we believe that the adversary has power to influence the unjust and idolatrous greed for money would be a good example in order to bring about persecution war oppression and evil combinations as an intelligent being don t you suppose that the destroyer would yield his influence foremost on those with political power as far as utah is concerned what i pointed out were some horrible examples of environmental nightmares imposed upon by secular authorities which have brought death disease i e the downwinders and environmental contami nation i am hardly paranoid i am just not expecting too much from a secular government that may not share our values and faith and which indeed as gov boggs et al may be out to harm and destroy us as a matter of fact prophecies in my church indicate that in future years global persecution against mormons will so increase in intensity and scope that paraphrasing all those who wish to escape persecution and murder must flee to zion zion the pure in heart will be re established in those days and it ain t our current secular authorities who will rule over it david koresh did not pose a great threat to the federal authorities or the security of this nation and with john i too wonder who or what s next i personally feel that we should try to stop anyone who is a threat to the life of even one person sure he did not pose a threat to the security of this nation but he did pose a threat to the lives of his followers that much is definite hmmm definite by whom until such has been established beyond reason able doubt this alleged threat may have been less than the threat imposed upon him and his followers by the batf and fbi who killed who what constitutional right did the atf officers have to invade upon private land and to force themselves into the compound what really caused the murder of the little children could it be that the atf fbi presence has any bearing upon the events how would you interpret the mt masada events blame the jews what the heck did the romans do there anyway what business did the atf fbi has in waco texas the branch davidians never posed any threat to society this is like asking who really caused the deaths of the israeli olympic team in in that case the police botched the job as well but to lay a heavier burden on them than the terrorists would be a terrible mistake i think the same sort of reasoning applies in this case certainly if david koresh chose any peaceful option the atf and fbi would have complied the responsibility is more his than the authorities come now at issue is in how much the authorities escalated an otherwise peaceful stand off let s get it over with and force david koresh to come out by gassing them were they naive or what they played right into the hands of an apocalyptic thinking individual he had prepared his people for this eventuality for years and not one firetruck or plan was in place to deal with this scenario i feel that the authorities had some responsibility to protect their own citizens even if they were religious zealots and guilty of not paying a gun license has the batf become an extension of the local tax collectors david koresh no doubt will be described as the evil guy by the executioners while the actions of all those valiant and brave officers characterizing the atf fbi as executioners is inaccurate and unfair in order to be an executioner the least one must have done is have the intent to kill que intrusion into private property with semi s loaded with life ammunition isn t that implicit intent or at least prepared to kill i ask you would the batf warrant stand up in a civil court of justice i do not mind if criminals such as dangerous drug lords are brought to justice but escalating events to the point of allowing to if not compli city with the destruction of a people isaac kuo isaackuo math berkeley edu how lucky you english are to find the toilet so amusing o for us it is a mundane and functional item for you the basis of an entire culture manfred von richtofen casper c knies isscck byuvm bitnet brigham young university isscck vm byu edu ucs computer facilities
