re atheist s views on christianity was re accepting jeesus in your heart jason smith jasons atlastele com wrote the discussion begins why does the universe exist at all one of the laws of nature specifying cause and effect seems to dictate at least to this layman s mind there must be a causal event no reasonable alternative exists i would argue that causality is actually a property of spacetime causes precede their effects but if you claim that there must be an answer to how did the universe our spacetime emerge from nothing science has some good candidates for an answer i have always wondered why christians use the there are questions science or atheism cannot answer argument i hope this is the appropriate group to ask this question the most popular question is the question of origins why does the universe exist or anything for that matter i think this question should actually be split into two parts namely why is there existence why anything exists and how did the universe emerge from nothing it is clear science has nothing to say about the first question however is it a meaningful question after all i would say it isn t consider the following a die hard skeptic being be it human or whatever attempts to doubt one s very existence since it is so easy to doubt everything else i cannot be sure the world exists it may be my mind fooling me can i ever be sure i exist however it is only possible to exist or not to exist someone insert an appropriate shakespeare quote here a being that does not exist cannot doubt one s existence a being that does exist can doubt one s existence but this would be pointless the being would exist anyway let us return to the original question why a being that does not exist does not need any reasons for its non existence this being is not sure whether anything else exists but his mind but let us assume that the world exists independent of the mind the objectivity postulate the question why anything exists can be countered by demanding answer to a question why there is nothing in nothingness or in non existence actually both questions turn out to be devoid of meaning things that exist do and things that don t exist don t exist tautology at its best i seriously doubt god could have an answer to this question some christians i have talked to have said that actually god is himself the existence however i see several problems with this answer first it inevitably leads to the conclusion that god is actually all existence good and evil devils and angels us and them this is pantheism not christianity another answer is that god is the source of all existence this sounds much better but i am tempted to ask does god himself exist then if god is the source of his own existence it can only mean that he has in terms of human time always existed but this is not the same as the source of all existence this argument sounds like god does not exist but meta exists and from his meta existent perspective he created existence i think this is actually a nonsolution a mere twist of words the best answer i have heard is that human reasoning is incapable of understanding such questions being an atheist myself i do not accept such answers since i do not have any other methods the second question how did the universe emerge from nothing belongs to the domain of science and i for one do not doubt the question can be answered by its methods many cosmologists have suggested that it is entirely possible for universes to emerge from vacuum this possibility has been suggested in a recent hawking biography see also lizhi shuxian creation of the universe world scientific however i think the sci groups are more appropriate for discussions like this as far as i can tell the very laws of nature demand a why that isn t true of something outside of nature i e super natural this is not true science is a collection of models telling us how not why something happens i cannot see any good reason why the why questions would be bound only to natural things assuming that the supernatural domain exists if supernatural beings exist it is as appropriate to ask why they do so as it is to ask why we exist i believe the genetic code will be entirely deciphered in our lifetimes but we will not see man convert entirely inert material into self sustaining reproducing life ever i ve never been much of a prophet though i can t even picture new york in my mind i don t believe any technology would be able to produce that necessary spark of life despite having all of the parts available just my opinion this opinion is also called vitalism namely that living systems are somehow fundamentally different from inanimate systems do christians in general adopt this position what would happen when scientists announce they have created primitive life say small bacteria in a lab there is a problem with your prophecy artificial life has been created although not yet in a chemical form computer simulations of evolution contain systems that are as much alive as any bacterium although their code is electronic as well as their metabolism see a recent book steven levy artificial life the quest for a new creation jonathan cape london artificial chemical life is just around the corner after all no spark of life has been found to be necessary living systems do not violate any physical laws as we know them you don t mind if a few of us send up a prayer on your behalf during your research do you after all if we of christ are deluding ourselves you really have nothing to worry about eh exactly this is why i think atheists should not post any evangelical atheist arguments to soc religion groups since people who seek to find peace in religions must be allowed to gather together i would normally have asked these questions in alt atheism or talk religion misc but it seems many christians do not read these groups petri petri pihko kem pmp mathematics is the truth pihatie c finou oulu fi physics is the rule of sf oulu kempmp the game finland phoenix oulu fi chemistry is the game
