re serbian genocide work of god note i am not the original poster i am just answering because i think this is important in article may athos rutgers edu db n andrew cmu edu d andrew byler writes revdak netcom com writes evil result of human sinfulness rather than the will of god in a certain sense yes but in the sense that god allows evil to happen when obviously he being god he could have not had it happen does in a certain sense mean that he wills it to happen god does not condone evil but instead uses it for good as you say however what god desires must be seperated from what actually happens for example god desires that all should be saved timothy however it is quite obvious that nowhere near all are saved was god s will thwarted no because his will cannot be escaped for even when it appears that it is your will doing something it is actually the will of god which by his grace has disposed us to do as he wishes so we come to the age old question why does evil occur to which we must answer that god allows evil to occur though he does not condone it so that his ultimate plan may be brought to sucess personally i suggest reading the parts of the summa theologica of st thomas that deal with the knowledge of god to get a good grasp on this whole idea whoo i m going to have to be very careful with my language here i think god is voluntarily giving up his omniscience in this world so that we can decide on our own where we go free will in this sense god allows evil to occur and in this sense can be held responsible as my chaplain says however his will is of course that all be saved he s not going to save us by himself we have to take a step in his direction before he will save us read that last sentence carefully i m not saying we save ourselves i m saying we have to accept our salvation i do not believe in predestination it would appear from what you say further down that you do stuff deleted i am not saying that anyone deserves punishment more than someone else i am simply pointing out that god could be using the serbians and croatians as instruments of his punishment as he did with the israelites against the cannanites ok i have trouble with that but i guess that s one of those things that can t be resolved by argument i accept your interpretation more deleted the issue is not questioning why god has made the world in the way god so chooses it is whether i am discerning the world in the way god intends it the debate is about whether we should not oppose the serbians in their ethnic cleansing because they might be doing the will of god and i said christians should not be participants in such wars and slaughters that does not mitigate the fact that god allows this evil to continue for he is patient and willing that none should perish so he waits for those whom he has foreknown to turn to him from their evil this is what indicates to me that you may believe in predestination am i correct i do not believe in predestination i believe we all choose whether or not we will accept god s gift of salvation to us again fundamental difference which can t really be resolved yet more deleted i am not saying that the evil befalling the bosnians is justified by their guilt i am saying that it is possible that god is punishing them in this way in no way is this evil justified bu that does not mean that god cannot use evil to further his purposes i am not accusing the bosnians though they may very well be guilty of great sins but that is up to god to judge we are all defendants when the time comes for our judgement by god let us all sincerely hope and pray that we will have jesus christ as our advocate at that judgement yes it is up to god to judge but he will only mete out that punishment at the last judgement as for now evil can be done by human beings that is not god s will and the best we can do is see taht some good comes out of it somehow the thing that most worries me about the it is the will of god argument is that this will convince people that we should not stop the rape and killing when i think that it is most christ like to do just that if jesus stopped the stoning of an adulterous woman perhaps this is not a good parallel but i m going to go with it anyway why should we not stop the murder and violation of people who may or may not be more innocent andy byler vera i am your clock i bind unto myself today vera noyes i am your religion the strong name of the noye midway uchicago edu i own you trinity no disclaimer what lard st patrick s breastplate is there to disclaim
