re countersteering faq please post in article qjn i d i sixgun east sun com egreen east sun com writes in article rd hydro on ca jlevine rd hydro on ca jody levine writes in article qc c r sixgun east sun com egreen east sun com writes single track snow vehicles with front skis and snow skis attached to skiers legs deform the surface of the snow creating their own bank ice skates alter the phase of the ice and also carve out their own tracks so what so they have bugger all to do with motorcycles hence any apparent similarity in handling characteristics may or may not be analagous in its underlying physics to that behind motorcycle handling characteristics ok as one last attempt i ll take a different tack we all seem to be in agreement that there are two explanations for why one can use the handlebars to lean a moving motorcycle the question is is one of the effect dominant and which one is it the idea would be to design an experiment which would seaprate the two characteristics and see which effect produces a similar result to the one with which those of us who have bikes are familiar let s look at the one that so far has sparked no controversy on its own gyroscopic precession to examine this alone we would have to get rid of the contact patch effect by not allowing the contact patches to transmit any force the wheels and steering mechanism would have to remain and be attached to a vehicle with about the same weight as a bike through suspension so that the wheels transmit forces to the bike the same way similar to a bikes an experiment would be to ride a bike along a dry road to get moving and to get the wheels spinning then change surfaces to something that won t transmit forces through the contact patches and try a steering manoeuvre to see if the bike leans it probably would since some of us know how easy it is to fall down on ice but we wouldn t get a good idea of how well or what it feels like because without the contact patches we can t turn maybe there s a better way besides even ice doesn t get rid of the contact patch forces altogether so we d have to find a really frictionless surface you d have to try it again with the wheels locked to really know if it was the rotation that did it looking at the contact patch effect only however is fairly simple now we have to find a vehicle that gets the about the same magnitude and direction of cantact patch forces as a motorcycle and transmits them about the same way to the vehicle but without rotating wheels how it gets the contact patch forces is irrelevant we re just looking for something that has contact patches that can go straight and not sideways and skis or skates would do fine i don t know of any snow ski or skate bikes but up here we have the suzuki wetbike that is arranged like a motorcycle but has fat water skis where there should be wheels i think the propellor is in front of the rear ski or something like that but we could try it at a coast to get rid of most of its effect now i admit that this is second hand info although i d love to try one of these but the review in the local cycle rag and a guy in a bike shop that sells them both say that this machine handles very much like a motorcycle in that you countersteer it to turn so we have contact patches that transmit similar forces to a bike s a similar suspension arrangement and no gyroscopes but we do have countersteering conclusion you don t need gyroscopes to countersteer vehicles that have motorcycle like contact patch arrangements we still don t know what real effect the gyroscopes have when they re there but from my observations of how handlebar angle force etc relate to steering in general i m willing to bet that they re not the dominant factor in countersteering if you don t like this conclusion then don t accept it but my motorcycle s behaviour is consistent with it if someone can prove otherwise go ahead i ve bike like jody levine dod kv got a you can if you pf jody p levine hydro on ca ride it toronto ontario canada
