But Jerry somehow has enough belief in himself and sense of his own rights, that he can challenge Rick and Beth and the kids as needed from time to time. [Oftentimes] he is not as confident as he might be in that, but he does have [his] moments. I think it's also a certain amount of obliviousness on his part or choosing not to look into the face of the incredible brilliance of Rick and sort of see him for the human that he is and being able to relate to that rather than this almost all-powerful being."