And there is this idea that the apes somehow changed into a human being. and I've seen this in multiple contexts and even inside of biology classes and even in the scientific community they'll say: oh the ape evolved into the human or the ape evolved into the pre-human: the guy that almost stood upright, you know, the guy that was a little bit hunched back, he looked a little bit like an ape and a little bit like a human and so on and so forth.