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Mr. Goodwin. | x F it 8 ht meet that we make choice of Ane I ſhall deſire. that the ſame may Moderate who did before; though I will not . reftrain Mr. Powell of bis liberty. to chooſe 8 hom he pleaſe : Only this lieth upon him or them that ſhal ! do it, to ſce that what is ſpo- | 2 en be to the point, and to cut off all by-paſ- ſages, Fes ſo we may drive things to an iſſue; and that they do * , aot/in Isage too much by way of diſputation. | {oy Mr. Powell = in rhe leaſtt to contend with you, Mr: Joodwi, or with 5 of yours, out of any prejudice that I have to your — 755 diſ- affection; for, God knowes how much, I did love and reſpect "oh and {till do. 2. Mythoughts,in bringing t che laſt mecting, were not og to ingage in the way of dfpure; hut to come together und. to diſcoürſe in a way of love een and to feceive ſatisfa- ction one from another in thoſe this gs wherein, we differ. 3. In celation to my; deu. Ilook nen m ſelf as others do, ve- ry unable and unfit to withſtand lein in nay of pte, and-therefo hors met Others, ho ate fitter and be ter read in thi cont ertake the work. > 1 we I 5 fre to do it with the ſpirit A . the: not ſtriving who ſhall h 2 rh td 05 truth, fot che glory of. [ not to fall- into biecerneſſ: oy age : ved (if I can) to reltrain my own eo ton ; 3 ſo that ( Boch | may not ſuffer diſhonor, no = dec ms of me: 1 de- ſire that he may be tech nie — J. 80. ana with man rele, r M. Goodwin. Thetel is no man 8 Thalt exchange his opinion: (ſuppoſing it to be an ercorforatrath) that ſhall need to ſay or fear that he ſhall ſuffer ſhame , that Gog 5 be glorified. in him : for, the truth is chat he bimſelf ſhall recei is God, by every ſuch exchange : * and! [cerpainly x 4 Sun chat any-perſon under heaven (ht ow great lover! in wildom and knowledg otherwiſe) can make, coop gr his droſſe for filyer, and of that wh Jites dis 1 ace, fol chat which will make it ſhine, 1 eto n Angel of Gog, which is by receivingand cab ang pc rrat : And. therefore upon that account We need not Feng ufer g of ſhame, ot any dparagerient, if eee errdur eds ee — 7 0 (3) 0 ments; certaibly it will be thi del Matket that ever wecame at, the beſt bargain that TYRE made in ont lives. And whereas you ing, if there had hg heen ſomething precedent to it on your part, which made the accepration of it more unworthy of you, Tchould have been glad to have heard thoſe. words from you But if your defire and intent was to find out whether you or! had truth with us, you on your fide, or Ion mine, you ſhould have done well to have forborne thoſe undue(I may ſay) words, whercby you did-aſperſe both me, and thoſe that relate to me in this way ;. 1 cannot ſay in publike, as in the 8 or upon the Sede before many, and to cenſure and adjudge men, or to reflect an thing in an oblique manner by way of diſpa- ragewent, before Fi vi ktign hether guilt, or any ſach unWor- thineſſe or no be nge «co ACelVE it was not faire nor Chriſtian, other wie Þ what you fay, and deſire you ſo much grace from God, that y op cloſe to rhoſe. ingagements, and not be A Ms > lor o F your owne Law. . Pow. Giv: leaveto. (peak We word. Ne be Fe any, t bing of what + you Fur to my Al. Good, Tracey, eit, an Moy ay it again, but Ges charge, the laſt 15 Von! ; 2 conſciet e not of an yſuckthing, -.: - por ae at that time, — ſhallteftifie as Neat as 1 mae « ſuppoſition. to M. Erice, that he 1 15 850 He come off upon theſe teres ( I . NP iter = rpreter of mens ſayin vgs or doings) yer thoſe words and paſſages wherein you utcere your ſelfe to M. Prise, (and who elſe was by T know not) Eknow not with what inter- pretstion you will come off, if you peak like a man, but that Bob diſpar gingand reflecting upon me: Yet whatever ber of. 00 4 4 time before my face two or three times | gs ebe and laid nr to my charge; LWo ot ſu Ou to. ion in our n EI — did th reſtraine, e pearl Aube , only deſired you to explaine your terms wherein you {tat Wo | B 2 M. John and 1. ak of your intention in the laſt meer- Y# 0: Yay: protubice vo 'M John Price, The legale f our former meeting Was excen- triCall towhat we now meet Wpon,we came then to this conſideration, ro find out ſome men ſound inthe F aith for the diſpatch of ſome bu- "fineſſe then under confider ation, an d defiri ie know who 7 were, M. Powell was pleaſed to rep ly Gwe 7 Ta he dia not j judge then who hold the Dottrine of F 2 and falling from grace, as ound in the Faith: To that I reply ed, If you bop. any thing to ſay to me ronching any ſuch thing, I hope I Foal give a Chriſtian account of it; an1at laſt it came to this, that he profeſt he heard that I held [ach and ſuch things, and that many godly and good C briſftians re- port many ſtrange Mins to be held [by M. Goodwin. 1 a»{wered, that we hal very hard meaſure from many of our ( ongregationall Brethren, we had indeed their good words for 2 but we did find that our credit and repute was much re. them: We did pro- feſſe before aſſociation 2 bes, 125 5 „ did not practiſe it, and if an Jil Chr; anything to ſay againſt us touching 45 ine o give 4 very fair account of both to then 17 "= * M. Pomell. Since you dere related ſo much'on- your part, tell what anſwer I gave to you. M. Price, Toa was ſaing to this proſe, that zen did not bold ſuch and ſuch men meet to preach the Goſpel; and you heard that F in particular held ſo and 10 and alſo you heard from others, that Ni. Goodwin bela fo and fo, not that you knew any 4 your ſelf, and yet at Laff you ſpake out that ſo it was. - M:Spencer; deer thut we ma 7 paſſe this by; "for thongh Al. powell did peak. a word that "might a little reflett upon your Congregation , yet he did profeſſe clearly, that he had ſuch high thoughts of M. Goodwin and his Congregation, that he deſtred to 2 W with en to [ee whether any ſach thing was ſo o ub. - M.Powtl. This is wy TY the eeſtimgn of my conſci- ence,: and here are many preſent can 'wirneffe aſh thatT would indeavour that there might bee a meeting of the Miniſters an Elders of the Churches of Eondon, that ſo there might be 2 right 8 of things between them. M brtce. Sir lere che on are in _ nd bv done meling the of ra een Web | 71 FE cis. * , 1 * 4 2 — * = M. Jeſs. I deſire to 2 20 you ar conſideration, beca perceive that M. powell th not thes in 4 & diſus, rather deſire that ſame. tt maybe the party.. AA. Goodwin. I 1 ole there 1 48 no os preach a, "IT ctrine, but he wilf give an account of it,“ 4 will be able to prove it, and ſo, i in a ſenſe he is fit t ae M. Powell. 1 account not my ſelf a iſpu ter rok this 9 M.Goodwin. He that diſputeth the things of Ieſus Chriſt, he is no diſputer of this world. M.Powell. I am come to maintain and aſſert in the p aineſt manner, according to the Scriptures, the truths that I do hold, and that other Paſtors and and Teachers of Chriſtian Churches do hold; and M.Goodwin is come to maintaine that which he conceives to be truth, le t us A we are able) go on to maintain them for the glory of e edification of the oh i A Goodwin. We at 3 5 3 at agreed, E ſo be you decline the name of x 4 „ 150 res and exhibits, then if you will nominate nd er Do ine in o poſition to mine, and ſo argue it from r , by conligering the parts of it, firſt one, and then _—_ I ſhall. be willing to admit of this conference between us. 5 M. Powell. With all my heart I agree to it. At this turn M. ohn Fympſon beſought a bling upon the undertaking, which done proceeded thus: M. Powell. M. Godwin hath offered it, and Iam willing to conſent to it, that eich of us lay downe thoſe things which we hold, and ſo to give Scriptures and Reaſons for the, maintaining thereof. _. MWMiGoodwin, That was not my propofi tion, but the one half of it was; for ſince this meeting was to ſatisfie you in what I hold, (ſuppoſing my judgement to be erroneous, and yours or- thodoxandſound) my propoſit ion was, that you would pleaſe to lay down your opinion Which is contrary to mine, and ſo pro- duce your proofs from Scripture one after another, that ſo we may ſee whether they will amount to the confirmation thereof, Vea, OF no. i 4 M.leſs. Zou that were. here the loft time, penſet to . diſcove- n how far was proceeded. 6 M. goodwin. ; Meere if he will ptopoſe op contrary to mine, and firſt ſee * 0 be M. Pow. to et may go more clearly to work, if Af be ſo, an 1 275 ent his proofs, of it; 11 5 in caſe his on contrary to minezanc he can rovye ates 1 2 owell. For my p art T Hall very willingly 18 be cl "op this way, as 9 9 it the beſt to unde the truth; for my aim is to xnow wherein we differ, and ho- we | 11 come, to be reconciled, I offered three things the daft ime, and Half now endeavour to prove them; I conceiyEby what I bat: m yon then, and formerly, that We differ concering Election, Redemption, Mans will, and concerning falling” away from grace: Now if it pleaſe you, you ſhall have your choice whether of” theſe we ſhall diſcourſe of, nd fo 1 ſhall lay down : 47 4 | Hoa! IVC y C Mut 4 125 It. 9 75 t. 12 eh ound fre What vou heard from me K N 2 y Jadgement Was caticerning falling Lb. _ leſs./ Tour 2 re the laft 9:0 XMPowell, WAS r* difoour -y A of Alm N e Os ati. W 1. abe . n = 1 1 90 1 Would ftate Lonts NAY „ eq» IV; Ws SS. 7 4 in oppofitiviito mi -. M.Ponell, 1 bra then to prove, firſt, that Teſus Chit did not die alixe for eve eh 1 Secondly; char dhe djd not di to Fee 15 57 man n the gilt o 'of his fi „ma fte beer ſen 443k I. vj Wit 4 OT 18 mot 5 9 65 e 15 pF bt pi 0 Ty ro dür | 1 Ds 15 1 be ITE = _ aſe the - 0 0 Knör ca den e cee e n tie y tiefe accoune of my gba: What it is 1 eh — 3 * bfr bis mind by %,. (7 7). and then hall prove it from the iptrire; and ſo that two do not ſpeak at ys 15 thong 3 oy it. M. Powel. I deſire only to ſpeak three thin t becauſe Thope they will tend to the glory of oY FAA arts any of us ſhalf break out into Feten, wority be tolck of it kept from it. Secondly, if any one hath any thing to ſpeak ur to the point; after both of us have ſpoken, that cker may do it orderly. Thirdly, that we may now agree whether to argue in a Iyllogiſticall way or otherwife ; the Propofitione' "heing laid dow to bring Scriptures to prove them M Goodwin. If you wilf reaſon from the Sexiprares, and ar- gue from them, I am willing. M. Powell, It is 2 that we explain the termes in the Propoſition. M.Goodwin. This thet ny adgment and doctrine touchin i — 18 3 7 dea 7 of the point of Gods i intenti iriſt',- or in chè >. 1 yp. ow matter of redemption auc 14110 5 Jay! \ this : - Bb 8 intend, or 2 intent ic þ * Gall 1 rand death 6 was, that all Adams ofterity- ſhould be (a 4 ThisdoRtineT thus 1 and this is in Late thr + ] affirm, chat the intention of God was U all Adam: pofte- rity ſhontd' be ſaved, I attribute intentions td Aves '6hly it ir _ as he is capable of intending Food go or Wherein hey are 88 1 or ec to hin), wh h ſenſe is this; copp to be 2 moſt pure, fimple, undivided 88 indivi- fib de himſelf capable any multi * 3. o actions, but remaining unchangeable every v not intend things after the manner of creatures; che Fo rence: recess thus: Aman when he intends any che 1& which his int nti6h. is produced, it is eitial | diſtinct ftom kis eſſente and being, and 1 Bon vatüte if foul;ſo'thathhis ſouſ is one thing and bis intentiofi another now in attributin intent ſons to God, I do not conceive 17 1 5 intention is one thing, and Go himſelf another; but he is faid to intend chi cdeeaule hep uts forth himſelf by means of that infinite peefedion bf 1 at er fuch 4 manner,for the bting- | ſach' as men do When they int end apy" hing. "Fe th When a man intends any thing, * * 4" { * the (8. ; ishis courſe, he projects meanes, or begs afoot and ingageth him- ſelf in ſuch or ſuch a wy. for the e ecting of what he intends, which is apt and proper to effect it: And in this ſenſe affirm, 1 God tends the Talyation of all, becauſe he affords & exhi- its means proper for the ſalvatiqn of all by the death of Chriſt. | refore,by the wWay, it will not follow, that in caſe the one, of all men be not actually effected, that therefore God failes and miſcarries in his intention; and the reaſon is, becauſe whatever is attributed to God which! is borrowed from men, as wiſdom, love, hatred, and a thouſand ſuch things, they axe onely attributed to him byway of effect, and not by way of affect, or of any formall exiſtence or being in God;for there is no ſuch thing as love, or hatred, or wiſdome in him, to ſpeak properly.; but God by means of his pure and gr Efſchce he is theſe, and all theſe, eminently and ie Wye of them formal ly, that is, in ſuch a. pro prie ir natures, as where- in they are faunc id in ing lf they are not in the divine nature q won any fi 5 2 as the fy are in men: So that 8 we ſay God intends the, ſalvation of all men, we. ſuppoſe han; doch that, or behayes = ſuch terms, and in Ke do when they intend any thing: Vet not ſo, - things, or evezy thing that men do under cat ei it is ſufficient, (according to the common no- tion of all Diyincs ) chat fimilitudes are good and ſerviceable.to * end,if the 1 hola in RENE 6 PRE ene the 1 55 and var ouſand o doch any one digg & by means of the Gly ws mc men are wont to do. upon their, 9 ons „then 1 ſy ppoſe abs do- vation of all, And thereforę as, ed intend Thin Os; they do not nj 0 1 e. —_ : | M..Goodwn: You defi red that! ſhould firſt: propound wy opinion; and then argue it, and now it is propounded, come with another emand quite different from it, w juſt aceprd ing to the old {a + Plura piteſt. ing ns quam reſpondere Ariftoteles, A f Abo may ask mo ons in an hourez then a iſe man may anſwer in ſeven — kg 42 M. Cranford. M. Goodwin hath anſwered this already, that be did not int end it abſolutely; but conditionally. M. ene. If you Pleaſe to draw up your whole mind into one Ar ig for no man is able to anſwer you in this Jong iſcoy M. Goodwin, It was not propounded for any ſuch end; chat you ſhould anſwer it; for I have onely aſſerted, I have not 58 ved any thing. But I will anſwer your Queſtion, po. Whether God intends the ſalvation of all men abſolutely or core Ibis then I-fay , 5 tat 5 in a ſenſe. # and true daun of all _— ** 4 4 * 5 * *. 3 yg = * * 1 4 rr ̃ . OA. © 8 —_— MAK „ „ „ — ̃ — A * — . 4 9 a A FE As, 4 : = ; 1 5 ,. . 3 * 1 - - —— = — dy = * the A and counſells of 10] Ihold that th thi rare all abfoZ late; and independent upon any thing in che ereat tare; that is; that God ſhould intend the ſalvation ofialt men, in ſuck a ſenſe | as Thave declared; this purpoſe and intention of his was not occalioned orbrought into him by any incerpoſall; or confidera- tion from the creature, but it was meerly drawne out of his own will, and proceeded from his own grace and bleſſed in- tont; in this ſenſe alt the intentions of God ate abſolute. * ' now if byabfolute you mean; that God wilt fulfill and put executiog'the/thing-intended withont any condition, ſo I 7 they are not abſolute bit condizonalty for God doth not in- tend the ſalvation of any man, but only by the interpoſall of his faith and believing: Now if you pleaſe to let me go on; I ſhafl ptodute my argument; and if it doth not reach home to my o- pinion, Arbe tid it ee ee defect, a We 8 Will eeke Tour, 0c 5 980915 1182111 973 + Tontly deſire this, becauſe i it is 5 neceſſary that nies a laydewn wv it yo afſert, and geo ad prove; Wt | l eee Vun gau hub end Laue arhon b a Ade chalet beg w with rhize ene dun Scripturd? 1 N 70 For God fo loved the world;that he gave his only begotten Song that wita/obner betievith 2 — Bald not » but bave evert. + From heyoe? argae thus: If f. $46 love out of wi] gave his Son, 3 unte the world ; that is; -Þ — 16 then: God did intend (in :e d each of bis gon) the vation of all men; and we mightadd, —— tion, but T ſhall not need: 1 liſt expreſly* af-! firms, chat God gave his Son out of thar 16ve - which be. bare unto the world, cat is, unto all me u, and chat for this end the upon their belle xing they might be esd bene re be did intend L ig the giſt: oi his Son; che ſalvativreofall mes: „ ne M. Powell.” Tour argument depends upon the word e rene it to be taken in a m ſenſſe M. Lordell. 1f i pleaſe puu, Sir, Any uns of the Prog feels | M. Powell. 1 Ae eee ie world. Wu dea M Adams poſterity» um An et M. Goodwin. ow well, Iproye it Ws: Eicher by the world ec Kru} deus eee or. ite ſy Able = W * 4 - * Lid WE whom you call in your language, the cle& of God; but by the world Irs not meant only the Eleet of God in your ſenſe , and therefore by the world is meant all mankind without excep- tiom: d e e e 2 ODT CLANS M. mull. I ma deny boch your Pro poſitions. M. Goodwin.” Repeat them, and then deny them. = M. Powell repeated the Argument, and anſwered thus: Firſt; your major propoſition; the world is taken in Scripture not only for all the world, that is, every particular man, and for all the Elect, but ſeverall othet wayes : But I come to your minot, and ſay, that by the world in this place is meant the Elect of God. 1 BY 20 M. Goodwin. If by the world is meant the Elect of God only, then the ſenſe of the place muſt run thus; So God loved the Elec of God, that whoſoever of theſe 'Eleft of God qbonid believe, br ſhould not prriſh, but, &c.” Which cleatly implies , that ſome o the Elect of God will not believe, and ſo conſequently may pe- riſh ; but this is ro put a non-ſenſe upon the place, and to de- ſtroy the ſavor that is in it; and therefore cannot be the ſenſe of it, as taken in this argument, that which deſtroyeth the con- ſttuction of the ſentence, and the ſavor which is in it, (Which alone is fit to feed the underſtanding of a man) that cannot be the ſenſe of he place: but now to underſtand tlie word [world ] warn place of W Elecd only, it makes the Tenſe altogerber un- Profitabbe and ſenſeleſſe: S,, anal. Tothis Argument I anſwer', that this may be the ſenſe:of tile word world] and the words may as well be read thus: Guo loved his Blełt, abus he gave, &c. that ſach and ſuch may be ſaved, that is, that they for whom he gave Jeſus Chriſt, might believe, and ſo be ſaved; for the Lord did not onely love them; bur he intended to bring them to believe, and ſo the ex- tent of his love and of believing, they ate as large the one ay: the other, God ſo loved the Electʒ that he would give them faith and ſave them. 5 SUE 2 * - MiGoodwin./I1 do not underſtand your anſwer, but either you meatiby the Þ world] the Elect only, or elſe more then the E- lect, ot all mankind in ern but ſay I, neicher of the former lenſes can be mant. neither — — the Elect only, nor ſome others be- Cs, TO ton, ſi des — — — * 12 | ſides the Elect, but onely Gebel poſtexity of Adam. M. Powell. I ſay by the word [world] in this place is meant the Elect only, becauſe the Evangeliſt ſaith, Cod L /e] loved the world , he puts a ſo J upon it : Now you never find that God in Scripture is ſaid to love all the poſterity of Adam with ſuch a love, which is here called a lying ob them Co] and which is called (in Eph.2.) a gteat love. | | \ 5 4 M. Goodwin. The, Scriptute holds forth a twofold love of God? Firſt, a generall loye which is attributed to him in reſpect of all his creatures, and ſecondly, a more particular and ſpeciall love, that is, to thoſe who have beha ved themſelves according to his Will and Word, by believing. in his Son, and ſo by faith and ho- libeſſe continue to the ds A And whereas you conceive” that This 1 [ſo]; hore in che Text, is only augmentat ive, that it only declages the gteatneſſe of the love of God / this I abſo- lately deny; for together with the / great neſſe of this love it doth AN ; and reſtrain it, and teduce it to this forme and tenor of love: it is not ſaid imply, ſo God loved the world; that he gave his Son, chat all the world ſhould be ſaved, then indeed it had been only augmentatiye; but mack the condition SS 9 which comes in, upon which God loved the world, and intends: to ſave it, ui. that whoſacyer believeth ſhall be aved : Which: ſhewes that this particle Lſo j is not oneiy inteblive ; and doth: not only ſtand there to declare the gtcatreſſeand tran ſcendency of the love of God to the world, but che tenor and the limita- tion of it, how and upon hat termes God loved xhe world, ws, that he gaye his on. Jeſus;Chriſt ſo and upon ſuch: termes only, that whoſoever believeth in him Mould not periſi, but have: ee n ne 14903 3607 22081 e e M. Powell. leR, that they ſhould partake of the benefit 0 is love, but! in | and by, and upon their believing. M. Powell. From this I gather two things: Fut, hit, thi ſpeciall love of God is towards men that arc of Ore 4 1975 upon condition of believing: And ſecondly, you ſay, that that is the meaning of the Apo le in the Romans. . 24.Goodwin.' No, that I do not, but the conttary; and it is the lame with that which is here f pokey of; for it's | that whilſt; we were yet ſinners, God ſent bir Son todiefor Wy, 1 zac f ſay that che intention of God in this love of his; and in the fel mediate expreſſion of it in the gift of his Son, it was that meh ſhould not partake of the compleat frue and benefir ok it bit vpug thigterms and Tondition of believing. Wn * M. oel. Let us keep to this, either the ove'of 47 184 ciall or common love, if it was a ſpecial] tove Oe 525 lays all, or ante ſome; if to all then you muſt prove ic if 'to'! 5 — it mult be tied to the Ele& of God. M. Soodwin. I gave you clearly 1 my ' ſenſe before + hi he 21 e ey in the word ſpeciall, if By at pe gleat, n admirable, ſo as to affect 122 ger fc 2 v / viſh the ſouls of men, ſo bot e that in the Romans. are the ſpeciall love of God; bur if you mean by it ſucha love, or —_—_—— 4 j 2 ö CER a — < r 5 * | — 2 2 £ : | — __ We. a - 2 ä * 5 erinner * * N . 5 9 - . - : | ts , , % x 0 dae fie work, an ſuck expreſſions of love from God Which are peculiar and ap- s only to believers, ſo I ſay the love of God i is not place nor in kay | NM. DM Powell, conceive thar i 1 both theſe places he meanes 2 ſpeciall love inthe latter ſenſe; for the Evangeliſt and the Apo- le do intend this ſpeciall love to the EleR, and my reaſon is this, becauſe God in the Scriptures holds forth no ſpeciall love at all, but unto ſuck perſons. odwin. Youdeny the concluſion , for my concluſion is, that it holds forth a ſpeciall love. M. Caryll. That is not at all in the Que ſtion, 1 the leu of God be ſpeciall as a great love, or a ſmall love, but whether Joe 2 ciali be W ie 8 | | A. 7658 05 e. Ns is ent | or od towards thoſe WhO axe actua en the Lay, it 6 he 1 T oodwin. ri e Me es il 15 e that are a * 8 hold eto any but only unto thoſe belieyersz As for all others, whom you term — e e term.of the arid 7 * whoſe world ba vis, more el A your. 5 et preſent, els all che labour — preaching of the, TRIO wr he: in Vain: ache fore for the 2 who de nat actu· ally believe, they 3 ON 7. ba as un- is ap- the commos ebe 0d, and Gadun ban 1 805 in ſuch a. 5 e 5 op 1 1 541 ergo 00 ſwer unt o this. - Vourng hc if we e Ape ſuch oye a God bears une deltec 465 at the lamb h loves Godhut believers. NowT deny this, and 23500 that there Fu me love in God towards others that are cle, who are not believers, 48 there is to thoſe who actually believe: And this 1 probe from | two Sctiptures, 7r:3x.31. I haus loved the, 457 ee with a love, and Rom. . 11. Jacob have ! Led, G amd ow from he chice I will argue thus, That love which theſe two texts hold forth, it is a ſpeciall love, and it is towards perſons that were not actuall believers. M, Cranford. M.Goodwin's argument formprly was to this ff fett, That the love of Goa was the motive to the givin of Chriſt, 1 extended unto the Sh, and therefore the giving o 885 mi likewiſe concern the world.M.Powell's Anſwer pt by the world is meant onely the elelt: this was took away thus, that ſuch à con- ſtruction of the word wonld take away the [#vor and 2 of the Scripture. Now M. Powell. Huld have given an aufmer to thi⸗ aud proved that the love of Cod is that place is meant of a Fretjall love. Nom I defire you to have reſpect to this ward world, where your eArgument chiefly confifts, and prove that the word world in a 51 ſenſe then the w ole world rakes away. the fav ven $i ire x words M. Caryfl. M. Goodwin ſeems to condluds a gainſ ny er- pretation but only that of a univerſal, becauſe if it betaken in any | narrower you ſpoile the ſeuſe. - Drake. Let that be proved that it mares the. ſenſe;. Wop in, 1 beſeech, you conlider the words, Cod le TY * that be gave bis only begetten Sou, that whoſoever, Kc. Now if bythe Tüorld eps will underſtand the Elect, thea. the ſenſe muſt run thus, God ſo loved the Ele, that whoſoever of theſe Ble& ſhould believe, ſhould not periſh, &c. For this word + whoſoever) is x diſtributive word, it 1 5 diſtribute | ome, er t the EfeR or att men; therefore the meanin muſt needs be, that God ſo loved the world, that whoſoever 8 5 whether | 9 55 the major ad minor Ea rnd in e onely. {c a tg 75 Was not 1 55 1 e win. £16 ] M. Geodwin, Why who then doth he mean by whoſoever ? for tharmuſt needs relate to the perſons of men, and if to men, then to ſome men, or to all men, if you will not underſtand it. ſo, you wake 1 te nonſenſe of it, and put a Pronoune with- dut an ve: Therefore this word [whoſaever] muſt diſtri- bute 3 24 the Elect, or all men, or elſe ſome middle fort of men bet u een both. M. Drake. I deſire you to bring an Argument to provejit nonſenſp i by the world be meant the Elett. N M. Goodwin. Mind the words again, God ſo loved the world, that he gave bis only begotten Son, that [whoſoever ] believeth in him, &c. That which I am to prove is, that (to make ſenſe of the lace) the word e muſt diſtribute ſome men, either che Elect or all men, or ſome other number of men between both. If you deny that, it mull & diſtributive, then find a Subſtantive rothe Aalen who doth God meane when he ſaich who- Jever? doth he not mean what man ſoeyer? M. Pomell. I think whoſoever and world, are of the ſame lignifi- cation and extent, and I ſuppoſe by the world there is meant thoſe that ſhould believe, and not the world taken as it is oft in Scripture fox all men: Ihaye given my reaſon why it cannot be underſtood but in the former ſenſe for the Elect. . Ctanford. Anſwer panttualty to A1. Sooqwipe erg ument, which i 6s, that 7 ward dwhoſocyer 174 N word, ending tbe ſub [po [po 225 729 125 8 95 word oY of ft 4¹ 90% 0 25 22 1 Javed; 9 25 ne, of them 2 not Jhall perifh. WC codes Ay ou wit) felt gz the ſedſe of the partici pie Which: isthe ee eat denſe, then it Will be thus, whocyer doth . 1 [4 believe he mY not pe e e yeexchude all other. Anſwer; _; NM ec. Then do not 2 to 35 preciſe te t EF but who! [ever dork or hall at any time l 4 ſupa is. to be yont ſenſe, yer the fame 0 0 y ws en N any oth ther fn of the word bot voy the g gene mankind; ** — 1 1 ” * 2 = LEN A 17 | M. Powell. For my part! Rs Polen what is e de i and conſeience in the thing, that the words may be rendered thus, without deſtroying the ſenſe of them,God ſo loved the world, cc. that whoſoever believeth or ſhall believe: Now: whoſo= ever, that word may have relation to the world, that is, unto the Jed world, it may diſt ribute it unto them, and not deſtroy the ſenſe. : q \ £Geodw, Do but ſee now and view it your ſelf, whether this be a commodious ſenſe worthy to faſten upon the. Holy Ghoſt, to ſpeak at ſuch a rate; God ſo loved the world of the elect. that whoſoever of the elect ſhould believe, ſhould not periſh, hut &c. and whether this interpretatiop doth not clearely ſuppoſe that there is a poſſibility that ſome of theſe eleR may periſh#! where fore els. doth he interpoſe that clauſe, that whoſoever believeth ſbal not periſh ? For, taking your notion of èlection, there election gives them a perfect and abſolute right to ſalyation; inſomuch that there needs neither dying on Chriſts part, nor believing on theit patt, to give them a right theteunto. If they were elected from eternity, what, greater or fuller title can there be to any creature, or right to ſuch a poſſeſſion or inbetitance as ſalvation is, then the peremptoxy and abſolute deſignation, of, God there-. unto ? Salvation . give to whom he pleaſe, and if he do it to any perſons ſimply and abſolutely, as they are his Elect they chould be ſayed, whether they believed or no, Ionly add this to ſhew the nonſenſe of ſuch a conſtruction of the NMS ds. M. Powell. To make it appear, that it ĩs not nonſęnſe, I illu- ſtrate it thus : The Parliament ef England; ſuppoſe they make ſuch ; prog to the Army; or unto others, that, whoeyer:takes: the Ingagement they,ſhalÞe protected by their power, and ſo ta- king of jt they come undet᷑ their protection; but now. will yon ſay that of neceſſity it mut be ſuppoſed here, that ſome will de- ny to take this ingagementi\:.. 44 ww) 1s hk 2 M. G god l go along with youxſimilitude fo, that God makes a Propyſition as the Parliament to the Army & others, that is, co all che x arld, that whoſoever takes e chat is, belie- veth;chey.ſhal be pratected, ĩ they hal be layed: chis nom is ſa- vory, & hath ſubſtance in it, it fecds the underſtanding of a man: ut now if che Parliament had fork a power Over the wlan ee ome — . Fi 81 | fome men; at to canfe them to take this Ingꝛgement e that no others would take it, then to make ſuch a propoſall to them, that whoſscver will cake it they (hall 8 this wouid not be à Propofition w ..of * M.Cranford. The point which you are to prove; is, That there it an abſurdity in this 22 to ſay, that God ſo loved the elect, that © alh the che believing ſpall be (aved ; und which you pive f this ab /nrdity is this, becauſe an 8 5 M. po- ell, the x of Elefbion is ſuch, that there is no need of t death of Ov. mor brlievi to bring thom to ſalvation. Was a Fiege I added bythe wyybut * her, God bach made fuch a decree, that none ( though cle) Mord be fred, but in and through 2 7775 ; de r lates togethet Fairly and Election. Rn 1 aire aha | "A: 07 | rs I vero fink; e ere e and therefore let us oF word nghhs; So Cod Woeif the world, rhas;Se, thar all beficving in him/ſkonld/norporifh ; bit," 8c. Now to mate the words rum thus, or to giwe e of them, WO ers kat every obe of . 4 eve, or belteving t ey ſhelk not perith, this (I ſay | nonſenſe; neither can 720 beſi{#any ine 6ar of the Kcrip ture, nor from ved Author, that was but im his com- "Ty rhat d 8 of conftriiion ax T7 COOHL IQR -— "[28] pedampts which wa intended for them without believing, ROSA Cbriſt puts in that ſo that 8 on as to the compleaning of the perſon who ſhall inherit 6 Then you deoy } 1 to be a diſtributive par- ticle Fr It is 4 Alleine, and not- 4 diftributive, it 1 "6 Cranford, This doth not only ſhew the love of Gad, but the Amitation of his love Now I take ir, it may be ſenſe in that ſenſe which you gave of it, God ſhewes his love to his cleft in appointing them the means of - their ſalvation, God modifies that lowe in bring- ing them to ſalvation through believing, he ſo loveth: bis ele, that «ll they by believing ſhall be ſaved. M.Goodwis. The queſtion is, whether ſuch a ſenſe be ſavory, and whether it will ſtand with the words; I fay , it is evident from the following words _ it cannot be the ſenſe, M.Powell. If it pleaſe you, you have ſpoken w e think good in this particular, an che e have heard en ſaid, and therefore let us refer it to — to — — Mr. Gooawin, There is a great deale more yet to be laid to it; fox either it is a diſtributive, or elſe it hath uo manter of Subſtantiye or perſon that is implied -i in it, for I would faine know what it ſigniheth, or what you mean by it, it's —_ ble for me ove that twice two make four: ſo ved the — pre the whole world believing ſhould Sed bring me ſuch an example from Scxipture;or from any ed Author; 8 ;the ſubject di ted was 25 rw of the benefit afligned to him by ſuch 4 d M.Cppuiford. Provethat it i db ribs M. Goodwin. Either it doth ibute, ov ele you ug gr that there is no Subſtantive to the Adyective. M. Cranford. Was it nt 4 great mercy || that the Serum was Altered from 1 wks, 10 4 cee. of Greece?” itt M.Goodwin. No, not in your "ſenſe of the Covenant of F ——— 55 impſon. -— Y — X, — £20] d M. Simpſon. - Ir aww jou to require of N. Goodwin to prove by : a\ Syllogiſme, that your eee is nom ſenſe, otherwiſe you have done nothing but talked all this while. M. Powell. I ſuppoſe e hath ſpoken in plain termes as much as he can put into a Syllogiſme. 