pressed upon by an Upper House in which squatting interests at least are strongly represented,—pressed upon also by many members of the Lower House, —and see what a chance there is that any Government would not more or less give way to such demands upon it, whereas if under the eyes of a Council sitting in each pro vince, or in each part of New Zealand, those lands are to be dealt with, and a watchful, eager race of farmers, anxious to improve their own condition, and to get properties for their children, are jealously and narrowly scrutinising every Act, con ceive how much safer the public interests are under such circumstances than when dealt with by an Assembly like that which sits at Wellington. (Cheers.) Why blast the prospect of the human race by trying to set up in New Zealand institutions in exact fac simile to those prevailing in Great Britain ? It is an absurdity to think we should lend ourselves to anything of the kind. I call upon you, electors of Auckland City West, who have no objects of your own to promote in this instance —in fact no objects of your own, but only the general interest, —I call upon you to stand by your distant fellow countrymen in other parts of New Zealand, and to say that their rights shall be respected. (Cheers.) Then, again, I tell you, and you must know it yourselves, that a distant Go vernment such as sits in Wellington, sup ported by such a power as they have in the Assembly, must be extravagant. I would almost defy them to avoid it. To a great extent the Government becomes a Go vernment of clerks —a great bureaucracy— because the new Ministers who came into office must be for several years dependent upon tho subordinates they find in the offices, and those geutlomen exercise an in fluence of which you can form a very small conception. They must ultimately be tho real governors of New Zealand if the mad course which has been entered upon is pursued to its end. (Cheers.) How can extravagance be avoided ? I ask you, what is tho meaning of this Act to indemnify members for having disqualified themselves ? How much did it cost to procure the indemnification of so many members ? And in what way ? It is impossible that extravagance can be avoided under such circumstances as it is proposed should now be set up iv New Zealand. Therefore again, on that ground alone, I ask you deliberately to pauso and consider well what you do. In proof of the easy manner in which the public may be led astray upon this point if they don't reflect, I will re late an instance of, I was almost going to say, popular insanity which I believe is almost unequalled ; and. to the electors of Auckland City West I can talk frankly upon this, because they did not join—from their posi tion they necessarily cannot join—those ■whom I regard as having been almost mad men. Now, what was the plan that was adopted to try to induce the people in a moment to swallow what was called the Abolition Bill ? I have told you that the Ministers asserted in the moat pointed manner to myself that they would carry the bill through during the last session, and without any alteration; and they asserted that tho people should not have any voice in determining their own future. But what were the means taken to do this ? It was by offering, what amidst great obloquy I termed bribes ; for to all intents and purposes they were bribes, but such bribes as had never before been offered, I believe, by anyone but nurses to children. (Laughter aud cheers.) In fact, they said to all the Road Boards throughout the colony : " It must be a very unpleasant thing for you, gentlemen, to have amongst you, or in your neighbourhood, large patches of land owned by absentees and speculators, many of whom do not reside in the colony at all. We will allow you to tax lands in your vicinity to a certain extent. But a great many of these people are dear friends of ours, and you must not go too far." And they al lowed the Road Boards under such circumstances to impose a rate; but it •was not to exceed 5 per cent, upontbe value of any property, or a penny iv the pound on its value for sale in any one year. The Road Boards might tax to that amount. Theu they went on to say, "Well, now, tax away, and for every pound you raise by a tax of this kind we will give you so much." They called these things endowments and subsidies. As I pointed out in the House, the meaning of an endowment is when a man by his own frugality, or by good luck or suc cess in business has saved a considerable amount of money, or when his forefathers by frugality, good luck, or success in business have done so, and he takes some of it out of his pockeb and endows some object. But in this case, what the Government said was, " You may take from theae absentees and people this small sum, and when you have done that we will tax you. You shall pay so much upon every cup of tea you drink, upon every pipe of tobacco you smoke, upon every glass of grog that goes to your lips, upon every coat you put on; or your wives shall pay for every gown, your children so much for their shoes—in every way you shall pay. And it will cost us a great deal to raise those taxes, so that for every £2 we collect, perhaps we shall have to take £2 10s—(laughter and cheers), —but then we will give you £2 of that back again oiit of your own pockets for the £1 you raise. These things being called subsidies and endowments, all hew Zealand ran to this at first. It was the most astounding thing. They all thought they were to get something, never for one moment supposing that new taxes must be put upon them to obtain this money if it was to be raisecl at all. I ask, what is the use of putting these taxes upon you for that purpose ? Why not allow you to raise what you want yourselves ? Why not let you, ■with frugality, do the most you can with the money you raise ? But why delude you by promising to give you something which is to be wrung from you in a manner which must be greatly to your injury ? (Cheers'.) I don't believe any nation in the world before ever had such a proposition made to them. And the reason -the public were so far led astray was, that hitherto the Government had been taking a part of those endow ments, as they are pleased to call them, out foborrowe d money. But I could hardly I .JiP sayiu^ to the people of New Zealand

here, "Good people, you will have to pay for all this by-and-by in a way you may little think of. By spending this borrowed money you have been giving enormous value to the lands of absentees and other people. Those persons will not pay any portion of the taxes ■which will ultimately have to be raised to pay the interest upon the loan, and to repay part of the principal from time to time. You yet have that to meet, and you have an amount of taxation to fall upon you which you very little conceive or consider." It may bo said that we shall get rid of this by a land tax or a property tax, and that something of that kind must bo done. But it is astounding to relate, and this is the fact, that when I proposed, and shewed clearly that it would be possible absolutely to reduce a great portion of the present taxes raised, which press upon individuals by a property-tax of that kind, and when I shewed that such a property-tax need form but a very small amount, the answer made to me was, "It is all very well, but you propose to do this by reducing expenditure, and it is a very difficult thing to reduce ex penditure, and you propose to do it also in part by imposing new taxes, but it is a very difficult thing to impose new taxes." To which my answer was. " We want men who will see no difliculty whatever in doing such things." (Hear, hear.) And I asserted what is a positive fact, uud no man ought to know better than myself, that it would have been quite possible last session, without injuring the public service the least in the world, to have reduced the Estimates by the sum of at least £150,000. Such a thing would not be list ened to at all. The only answer was, that it was a very difficult thing to reduce expen diture ; and my reply is, that there was no difficulty at all in doing it. And I say this : I don't know whether he is here or not; but if I had my friend Mr. Header Wood to set to work with me for half an hour, I am per fectly certain we would have brought that sum down to the calculations wo had made. I had carefully gone through the Estimates myself, and there would have been no difli culty at all in accomplishing such a thing. Having said so much to you upon this point, I would ask you to look a little to the future. (Cheers.) My friend, the chairman, said that I was going to sketch out a policy for you, but that in fact is a thing which at present it would be impolitic for me to do in detail. 1 can give you great subjects of general con sideration upon which you must make up your minds, but the other question of an actual policy would be a thing which I think it would be very impolitic for me to attempt to sketch out. Let us think for a moment upon our present position. The state we are in is this : that the day after the next session of Parliament the provinces will be abolished. There are a great many con tingencies to come into force first of all, and to be considered. We don't quite know how the next Parliament would be constituted ; who will be Ministers ; we don't feel cer tain at all that the abolition will take place. (Cheers.) That is yet a question in the womb of time, and has to be determined by the constituencies of New Zealand. Then there is this very remarkable fact to come : The Government are about, if they remain in office, just to do the same thing over again next session that they did last session. They have not told you, when the provinces are to be abolished, what your future is to be. We have a right to know that first of all. Strictly speaking, it is tho Government who should have said what form of Govern ment they intended to sot up hereafter, and they should have gone to the constitu encies upon that. They should have let you have some voice in your own future ; but here next session we are to be surprised into exactly what was attempted last session. Now, under such circumstances, what is our duty ? In my opinion—l speak to the electors of Auckland City West —our duty is very plain and very simple. It is this : The law of the Empire affirms, and the law of the Empire has always insisted upon the rule it affirms being carried out, that if a federation is broken up without the consent of the bodies composing that federation, each mem ber of the federation, after it is broken up, shall determine whether it will enter into a new federation or not, and upon what terms. (Hear, hear.) Now suppose the Government had taken this course—that they had proposed a certain form of government, and that they had gone to the provinces, and that each province could have passed a law abolishing themselves and accepting the new form of government, the Provincial Council having expressly been returned for that purpose, you would have been bound by that; but if the provinces are only abolished, we have a right as free men to determine ourselves whether we will or will not enter into such federation as the General Assembly may propose to set up. (Cheers.) Now, mind this: We have a right to turn every disadvantage we have suffered under to our advantage if we can, and if an attempt is made to forca Auckland into a federation which is contrary to its interests, the wrongs you have suffered through the unjust deal ings of the Government with the public lands and public revenues will give you an enormous claim upon public sympathy throughout the whole Empire—will give you an enormous claim upon the sympathy of your Queen, and upon the Parliament at home, aiid will ensure your voice being heard as to what your own wishes for your future destiny may be. (Cheers,) That is the one cardinal point that I think you should all keep in view. That we _ have a right as freemen, if the existing federation is broken up, to determine whether we will or will not enter into the federation which may be proposed to take the place of it. (Cheers.) If you determine to do it it must be done. If you determine not to do it, we can be heard in spite of any General Assembly in New Zea land. You need not distress your minds on that subject. Then, I say, there is a clear future before you ; no harm can happen to you. I will put several projects before i you. I say, that if Auckland stood as a separate colony—as an absolutely separate and independent colony, as Queensland separated from New South Wales, and as Victoria separated from the same colony —it would be one of the greatest and most prosperous colonies of the

Empire. (Loud and continued cheer ing.) The inhabitants of the province of Auckland have shewn themselves equal to every fortune. They have not disgraced themselves in times of plenty, and when money was abundant ; they have not dis graced themselves when a powerful enemy thundered at their gates, and their existence appeared to hang upon a thread. They did their duty then. They have done their duty as legislators, and they have done their duty as good subjects. What tumults have taken place here against the Queen's authority ? What rising has there been against the law ? What have we done that our institu tions should be forfeited witheut our being heard? (Cheers.) Occasionally, and only in very rare instances, Parliament has taken away a Constitution for a time, but it was for acts of rebellion, and as a punishment upon a people who had risen against their Sovereign. What have we done ? What crime have we committed ? What extrava gance has the province of Auckland been guilty of ? How much of this twenty mil lions of debt are we responsible for, or hare we had spent among us ? What part of the Empire has been wronged by us ? I say that we have done our duty as good subjects in every respect, that we have a right to have our privileges respected, and that right shall be recognised by all. (Cheers.) There fore I tell you that even if it come to that— if we are to stand as a separate colony, a great destiny is before us. Now, let me further tell you that I have never myself been wild enough or foolish enough to believe that any particular form of Institutions for a moment pro duces any great effect upon a nation. I mean if an institution were of such a kind that the whole nation in some degree had it under their cognisance, and participated in its actions. I believe that it is impossible to devise human institutions in the present state of the world which would not in some respects go wrong, and in some respects com mit faults. But I do believe this—and in taking that faith I adopted the faith of the greatest minds of the present age —of every nation, that it was possible by degrees to edu cate a people to be fitted for higher state of institutions than any portion of the human race yet enjoy. (Cheers.) It might take years to accomplish that object ; but the true way in which it was to be accomplished must be by allowing people to aid in their own government, to watch every law that was made, and to train up from the mass of the citizens a body of experienced legislators and administrators. Such educa tion, we know must, in the course of cen turiea, raise up a people greater than the world had ever previously seen. It is one of those steps in onward human progress which all good men have desired to see carried out. It was the point at which we arrived in these institutions which are now so maligned, and the essence of which has been destroyed from year to year by succes sive Acts of the General Assembly. What lam coming to now is this, —I will not put it before you as a thing that you merely wish to achieve, but I will put it before you to make you truly understand the subject. It is agreed by all writers of the pre sent time that the people who were most thoroughly educated in the arts and sciences, and who made fhe greatest figure in the world, were the inhabitants of the free States of Greece". Every citizen was one of the legislators ; every law made was attended by the whole of the citizens as sembled, and carried by the general vote, so that the whole population was raised to a degree of intelligence and knowledge con cerning their own welfare, of which we can now form but a slight idea. I look to the position of Auckland ; I look at her power of commanding the commerce of what I may call the new world, and I assert my un hesitating belief that if they made Auck land a free city, giving us the harbour of Auckland and the harbour of the Manukau, with the lands adjacent, we would rise to be a community as great as Carthage—rise to be one of the greatest communities. (Cheers.) If we had the power of training every citizen within those limits to his duties, the power of establishing free-trade here, or of spending amongst ourselves our revenues and the profits of our commerce—even that small tract of country T have mentioned would rise to a greatness which would astonish man kind. (Cheers.) Therefore, I say again, that under no circumstances is there any fear for the province of Auckland. But there is yet a greater view. Of course, it is impossible for me to tell—which is one of the reasons that make it difficult for me to put a policy before you—who may be returned to the new Parliament; what friends I may have banded around me; but I can only tell you that some of thr greatest minds—l believe the greatest minds— in the last session of the General Assembly, believed that under existing circumstances, after the shock that has been given to Pro vincial Institutions, the best solution of the difficulty would be a separation of New ;Zea land int© two States—(loud cheers)—|each composed of one of these great Islands ; [that each island should have, in due subordiation of Great Britain, absolute sovereign powers within itself—(cheers)—that it should yield up no portion of its powers, except stiiictly federal ones, to a small Government sitting at Wellington—l mean simply the regula tion of .Customs duties, Post Office* duties, and certain subjects of that kind; that, like the States of each Island should in its due* subordination1 to Great Britain, be sovereign within its own limits, and th&t the General Assembly should be the servant of the t\v Islands, not being able to take any powers from them, but only receiving such powers as the Islands by agreement give them. Such General Assembly and such General Go vernment necessarily being but small in number, meeting but for short periods of time, and settling, as I say, but these few points, and such General Assembly being so regulated that each Island would have equal power within its walls. There would be but little difficulty in carrying out such a plan as that. Even some of the leading minds at Wellengton have signified their entire acquiescence in the city of Auck land being made the capital of the Northern Island—(loud cheers)—the Federal Govern ment retaining its, seat a fc Wellington, you

will see that although my own conceptions of the education of the human race,, in sub jects concerning their own interests, would not be fully carried out, inasmuch as there would be only two Legislatures in this island, and one of those only the General Assembly ; still you would have in the North Island two Legislatures sitting. The people here in the North would carefully watch every thing concerning their own interests which might pass in the Legislature assembled under their own eyes. The people in Wellington would have an opportunity of carefully considering the proceedings of the General Assembly, and what took place there. There really would, be two great educational establishments for the human race still existing in the North Island of New Zealand, and I have no hesitation in saying that although, if I came into a view of that kind, which I should feel it my duty to do if the public sentiment ran in its favour— (cheers), —although I should sacrifice some thing of my own feelings, I should still clearly see my way to future real greatness for the colony of New Zealand as a whole. (Cheers.) I should see a chance of pros perity being again restored to this Northern portion of New Zealand, and of the inhabitants of Auckland again having their own revenues fairly spent amongst them, of having districts now in accessible to man lying close to our capital opened up by roads such as they have in the South ; of seeing those advantages conferred upon this part of the country, without which it must still struggle on for years and years, contending against very great difficulties. (Cheers.) To me it is a melancholy thing to think that, living within, so few miles of Auckland as I do, that there is no road by which I can reach the coast opposite my own habitation. It was, the other day, a sad thing for me, when coming back from my own residence, to see the inhabitants of the coast live almost like barbarians, assembled in their small canoes and flat-bottomed boats, waiting for the steamer to send to Auckland, instead of having the railway carrying i everything from their doors, as would have been the case in the south of New Zealand. I say that we have no hardier race extant than the residents of this part of the colony. Of all "the inhabi tants of New Zealand, 1 have seen none who have had to struggle against greater hard ships than our country settlers, and who have been left to struggle against them. Therefore, naturally, not only with regard to that part of the province, but with regard to what I know is going on in every part of the province, my heart yearns to see more advantages bestowed upon it, as have been bestowed upon the Island, and I believe that the plan that I have laid before you now, which is the one which finds the greatest acceptance with my friends, — that of the plan of Insular Separation, is the plan to which, upon the whole, you had better bend your minds. I have laid these plans before you. I have given you my reasons for them. Now, let me add one thing further in closing what I have to say to you. Lst me look still further to the future ; let me look at the hopes which await yourselves, and pray of you fairly and properly to do your duty under the present crisis. Just conceive for one moment what your position is. Quite recently new fields of enterprise have been opened to the whole human race. California has been recently occupied. I recollect when I first came to New Zealand there were but a few mission aries and savages there ; it has now grown into a nation in itself. China is thrown open to you. Japan is thrown open to you. The islands of the Pacific are thrown open to you. Aus tralia is thrown open to you. Look here at your pity, as I have said before, situated between two great harbours —outside each harbour an ocean, upon the extremities of these oceans the newest and most un developed country in the world, teeming with riches —I may say unrifled. by the human hand. Such prospects never before opened to the human race. Consider for a moment. Here you have coal in abundance for manufactures; iron, copper, gold, and every means of manufacturing ; every means of creating trade; and every means of establishing the commerce of this newly discovered world of yours. You have an abundance of timber for your ships, and all, I may say, that the heart of man can desire—fertile soil, for the great part, and a climate unequalled. What a destiny stands before the people of this province if they will be but true, to themselves !. Now, let me ask you, then, in deciding upon the future of yourselves and of your phildren, will you now be true to yourselves ? Will you turn your minds to the contemplation of the great questions before you ? Will you strive manfully, like those who owe a duty to themselves and to future times, to arrive at a decision which may be for the happiness of the whole of the people of New Zealand ? (Cheers.) Ido not ask you to go with me if you disapprove of the views I have put be fore you. I ask you to decide well and wisely. When you have decided, if you desire it, with joy and hap piness I shall go back to the retirement from which I came. If, on the contrary, you desire me still to work out the objects which you believe are for your walfare and your happiness, as long as health and strength permit me, you may rely upon it that I shall do so most devotedly. Sir George Grey resumed his seat amidst great applause. Mr. Masefield rose and said: Gentle men, —On behalf of the City West electors, I have very great pleasure in moving a vobe of thanks to Sir George Grey, for his able explanation of the proceedings of the late Parliament, for his views on the public policy of this colony, and also for the views and opinions expressed by him of what he con siders best for our interests to be followed during the next session of the Parliament. We have to thank him for his indomitable zeal and perseverance in the public interest of this province. We have to thank him for the several important committees which sat 'during the last session, and opened up matters which, to say the least of them, were not creditable to any administrative body. We have to thank him that we are ] allowed, at this juncture, to have a voice in the great changes which must inevitably fee.

made in conducting the affairs of tv colony; and lastly, we have to tW w that he has left a life of ease and comfort «"5 has come forward to assist us by looiri after our interests at a most critical t#T,s (Cheers.) I would take this opportune« urging the importance of more unity 3 our members, that, though they mavTff g on smaller matters, they should actasm? man under a leader during the next rpL of the Parliament. Should Sir Georee 7-T so honour the electors of the Thames «? became a candidate to represent them T think I can promise, on behalf of the dit West electors, that we will return him tJ men who will support and assist hi mm Wellington, and I consider it thedutvrf every constituency in the province to do tv same. I beg again to thank Sir GeoS Grey, and to move, " That this meetingX presses its cordial thanks to Sir Geor7 Grey, and to those who supported him in hi! zealous endeavours during the past sesshm to preserve to the people the right of havZ a voice in preserving their constitutional rights,c and records its unabating and eatire confidence in sir George Grey as their retire sentative." * Mr. D. Goldie seconded the motion. He said :—ln seconding the resolution which. has just been made, I will simply state that the great mistake we have made has been returning members who have made politics a trade, and who had either themselves or their friends to serve. In Sir George Grey we have a gentleman far above any such motives, and for this reason, if for no other I have very great pleasure in seconding the motion proposed. The Chairman put the motion to the meeting, and it was carried unanimously. On rising to return thanks^ Sir Gmege Grey was received with loud applause. He said: Gentlemen, —After all I have said to you, I will Bimply now thank you most heartily for the resolution you have passed, but I will ask you to do one thing further. As I have told you, I have been! on many occasions, greatly indebted to my most exeeßent colleague, Mr. Dignan. I can assure you that there lives no man in the world more resolute for good than he is; no man more determined to support the views to which he has pledged, himself, and no one to whom I ©we greater political obligation! or for whom I have a feeling of more thorough and affectionate friendship. I have seen him tried seriously in public life, and I have found him ever true and good, and I do hope that some recognition of his merits will be made by this great and most important meeting before it separates to-night. Mr. Jerome Oadmak said: Mr. Chair. man and gentlemen,—At this late hour of the night it would be hardly proper that I should occupy your time by making a long speech. Fortunately Sir George Grey has made it for me, and a much better and very much more eloquent speech than I could have made. The resolution which I propose to make I feel sure you will carry unanimously. It is, "That this meeting further expresses its satisfaction with the conduct in Parliament of Mr. Patrick Dignan, and its confidence in him as a representative for Auckland City West." Gentlemen, I have only two words to add in tabling that resolution. I think that it is quite right that those who work ao hard and so heartily as Mr. Dignan has done on behalf of this province, should at least receive from their constituents some mark" of their appreciation of the conduct of their repre sentatives.

Dr. Lee seconded the resolution.

The Chairman put the motion to the meeting, and it wa3 carried unanimously. Mr. Diax&s upon rising said : Gentle men, —My sense of the resolution which you have now carried is that I do not consider any man should be thanked for the discharge of his duty. When I look back at the last time I had the pleasure of meeting you, I re member that you then did me the honor of electing me as one of your representatives without pledge or promise. If the course I have pursued in Parliament has met with your approval, it gives me great satisfaction to see I have so far discharged" my duty towards you. I shall again be prepared to discharge my duty in a similar manner, whether as a member of the Legisla ture, of as simply a humble elector of Auckland City West. My convictions are fixed that there is a necessity to make a stand, and a positive stand, to lay the foundation of our future prosperity. As Sir George Grey has told you, Auckland has nothing to fear, —nothing to fear from with out, but from within, and from yourselves is the cause for fear. I repeat the words he said, "If Auckland is only true to itself, you have nothing to fear; there is a pros perous future before you." As regards the course which I have pursued, it was much more pleasing to myself to join the ranis of a few honorable men to fight *or the constitutional rights which I knew an attempt would be made to deprive us of; —this was much more to nl6 and more consoling to my feelings as a man than to be in the ranks of the Govern ment, and to be subject to the beck and caU of Goverment whips. ' Sir, I shall not detain you by making any further remarks, but I do say that there is a necessity for separa tion—(cheers),—and my exertions, whether as a member for Auckland City West er simply as an elector, will be to aid ana assist any man who will render any advan tageous service to that cause. I thank yw> sir, for the resolution you have proposed, and. the gentlemen present for the manner m which they have received it. (Cheers.) ' Sir George Grey said: Gentlemen,— There is one last duty to be performed, a will propose a resolution to you, which a have no doubt Mr. Dignan will second, ana you will carry unanimously. I Pr<^°L that we should return a vote of *ha? kV: the chairman for his excellent conduct intna chair. '• • This motion was seconded by Mr. Di<H»»* and carried. ' „. , Three hearty cheers were given for i>a \ George Grey,.and three for "Separation, after which the meeting dispersed.

Printed and. published by the propietors, GeOl£? BJcCullagh Eeed, of St George's Bay, and HeMT Brett, of Parnell, at their General Steam T**™?- Office, Wradhanwitreet, in the Oily of AncKW* New ZealanS sV-

Evening- Star Supplement, Korember 30, IS7S.