Supplement to the Evening Star.

MR. J. McCOSH CLARK'S SPEECH.

cheers.)

(Centfnued from page 3.) ties; and further, that all subsidies be paid only to these bodies from the Consolidated Fund. The question has even been asked by the supporters of Provincialism— could these amounts not have been paid to Provin cial Governments, and have allowed them to do the work as heretofore ? I would reply that I do not see any reason when, as now, the Consolidated Revenue shows a surplus over the expenditure, why this could not have been done. To abolish Provincial Govern ments will not effect a large saving; but when the time, it appears, has come when the large expenditure from the loans ceases to act upon our Customs Revenue, then these amounts could not have been paid to all the provinces. The subsidies to road boards could then be discontinued, and the Government would then be obliged to provide for the institutions indicated and from the Con solidated Fund?; then thefresult will be what the Southern Provincialists say will be the result —that the richer provinces will have to contribute to the support of the poorer. Or ■pre will put it : in other more correct lan guage, that under the working of this Act, the richer provinces will be obliged to con tribute more largely and more equitably to the expenses of Government than they have hitherto done. The Southern opponents see in it the first step towards making the land revenue colonial revenue. The provisions contained in this Act to make education a colonial question—to pro ' vide for it out of the Consolidated Fund, I consider a very important consideration. This step ought to have been taken by the General Government long ago, but it is a difficult subject to deal with. Opinions are so opposed, and so strongly held, that any Ministry, so long as they could leave it to the provinces, have shrunk from taldng up a question which could scarcely fail to create division amongst their supporters. Now they will be forced to deal with it, and to make such provision for education that all parts of the colony will enjoy similar advan tages to those hitherto enjoyed by the richer provinces of the South. I will now shortly refer to what may be called the grievances of the North. It seems strange that, while Auckland contributes over £310,000 to the Consolidated Revenue, that the Provincial Government should have been in a state of bankruptcy. (Hear, hear.) Various alterations have been made in the amounts paid out of the colonial revenue to the provinces—first, five-eighths of their Customs, subject to certain charges; then three-eighths with fewer charges ; then a capitation of 405., and; that reduced to 30s. , and then t0)15a.,a0 that all tkat'the Auckland Provincial Government received last year out of the sum of £310,000 was 15s. per head of the population, and that subject to de ductions for interest on provincial debts. Too much is sometimes made of those changes. It is often assumed that in this, Auckland was treated differently from what the Southern provinces were treated ; but it is not so. All are. alike in this respect ; but yet there was, and is, great injustice. It mattered little to the provinces of Otago and Canterbury, with their large land fund, what reductions were made in the capitation allowances, hut it was a matter of life and death to us. The injustice lies in a portion only of the revenue of the colony, being considered con solidated revenue, and this brings me to the so-called compact of 1856, which secured to the several provinces the land revenue arising ■within their respective boundaries, thus freeing from any of the charges and expenses of the General Govern ment's one portion of the revenue of the country. This arrangement may have been fair when it was entered into, but in working it has become grossly unjust. (Cheers.) Put the question thus :" Is it not fair that each portion of the colony should contribute towards the general ex penses of the Government in proportion to its revenue ? I would almost be willing to put such a question to a Dunedin Scotchman without fear of the result; but, under the arrangement of 1856, for some time back, in round numbers, one-half of the revenue of Canterbury and Otago has been free from any such contribution, thus throw ing a larger share of the burden upon other provinces less able to bear it; the extra burden thus thrown on Auckland last year was something like £100,000. _ I say that even a Southern man will admit that this seems unfair, but he will quote the compact of 1856. It was no compact, but a mere ar rangement made by the General Assembly, one duty of which is to care for the interests of every part of the country; and then the arrangement having become unjust in its • operation, it was the duty of the Assembly to alter the working ; but the Assembly altered the conditions of the arrangement in one very important point. When it was entered into the Crown had the pre-emptive right of pur chase over native lands : the North Island had thus an opportunity of acquiring an estate at a price low enough to produce a revenue. But when the Assembly waived that right by passing the Direct Purchase Act, they took away from every one the opportunities of purchasing laud to advan tage, but the lands already purchased were. rendered for a time less valuable. This Act virtually broke the compact, if such a com pact existed. (Cheers.) Had the represen tatives of Otago and Canterbury been less tenacious in holding to the letter of the arrangement, which they cannot bub admit to be unfair, they might longer have been allowed to enjoy the residue of their land revenue, but now a spirit has been aroused which will not be allayed with anything less than the whole of the land fund be swept into the general j parse, and expended in the interests of the | colony, almost irrespective of the provincial . district in which it has been raised. We will now look at the operation of the Immigration and Public Works Loan Acts, and here again Auckland has been wronged, but the wrong can be traced for the most part to the baneful j cpmpact of 1856. The amount expended on I railways in Auckland bears a small pro portion to what has' been expended in the I South. Looking at this from a broad point j of view, something may be said in its favour The railways in the South are likely to yield a larger profit over working expenses than those in the province of Auckland; and further, as the interest and sinking fund on the cost of all constructed railways, over and above the profit in working such railways, are to be charged against those districts in which these railways are made, it seems fair that this province—seeing that the Southern province.have a land fund to mort gage as security for the money expended on their railways—should have a claim for a larger proportion of the loan than those provinces which have no land fund ; but here again the injustice comes in. The Colonial Treasurer takes credit to the Government for having paid since 1871 I half the revenue from stamps towards the [ interest and sinking fund on the cost of railways in process of construction, and I purpose during the current year to pay from 1 consolidated revenue the whole of such I. interest. The proportion which Auckland contributes to the consolidated revenue is iffbout one-fifth of the whole ; the proportion H expended in Auckland on railways is about I 'one-eighth of the whole : thus, the so-called

insolvent province of Auckland is actually assisting to construct the railways of the richer Southern provinces. (Cheers.) More a„\h been «** to ai sous BBS \ A^ &nd- One reason given by the Minister for Immigration is that wages are higher there. This is true, partly because of the larger expenditure on public works. The proportion of immigrants shipped to Auck land is between one-seventh and one-eighth of the whole, but the interest and sinking fund of this portion of the loan are paid out of consolidated revenue, of which Auckland contributes one-fifth. This, again, is another of the many instances in which the old rale is carried out, "Unto hi* who hath shall be given, and from him who hath not shall be taken away even that which he iok£' v. if fault lies in the compact of ibob; had the land revenue been Colonial revenue the proportions would have been about right. Before leaving the question of immigration and public works policy, I might refer to the Auckland and Riverhead Railway, not yet begun, although the money lwte en ted two years- Some consider that the railway to Kaipara was a mistake; that it never will pay. To prevent those forebodings from coming true, it is necessary to connect that line with Auckland, and as an immense area of very valuable, and, as yet, under-estimated land will by that rail way be brought into communication with Auckland, I have little fear of the ultimate result This is a matter which will have to ;be brought forward next session, unless the work is commenced in the meantime. One reason given by the Minister for Public Works why this railway I had not been commenced appears something I like a shuffle, viz., that wages were too high in Auckland to warrant tenders being called for—particularly placed side by side with the other statement, and reason given why more immigrants were not sent to Auck land, that wages were lower there than in the South. I now come to the question of Separation—the question of the day—and, after careful consideration, have to state that I believe separation, on almost any terms, and certainly on any which we can hope to secure, would prove disastrous to the North Island—(cheers) — and, entertaining that opinion, I consider that the present agita tion has been prajudicial to our interests ; it has taken off' our attention from more practical questions; it has [caused division among us—(hear, hear)—and it has stood in the way of what should have been made the test question by every constituency out of Otago and Canterbury. The question of making the land fund of the colony colonial revenue —I will not attempt to discuss what may be called the outside difficulties standing in the way of the financial Separation and the Federation of the two islands. What the Imperial Government might say to the pro posal or the objections which might be urged by the public creditors against whatever they deem prejudicial to the value of their securities—for I believe if a majority of both Houses, and of both Islands, are desirous of separating, such obstacles might be over come—the holders of bonds issued before Separation would still retain as security the revenue of the whole Colony. lam far less anxious about what the existing creditors may say on the subject, than what those whom we may wish to become our future creditors will think of the reduced value of the security which the North Island would be able to offer when desirous of raising further loans. Neither will I allude to mere sentimental considerations upon the advan tages of union in the abstract —upon the pros pects of founding a great and united nation. I will confine myself to hard matter-of-fact business considerations, and principally from a North Island point of view. (Cheers.) I will look at the value of theassetsand amount of the liabilities, and try to work out what position we would be in were the proposed dissolution of partnership brought about ; what surplus revenue we would have, after allowing for necessary charges with which to develope the resources of our country, and what effect the change wouLd have on our future credit with the English capitalists. The advocates of Separation have as yet given us no particulars as to what effect the change would have on our finances. They have contented themselves with theory ; but in a matter of pounds, shillings, and pence-—in a matter which affects" our pockets—facts and figures are what we require. In referring to the figures and the proofs upon which they are made, it is necessary to be exact in what is stated. I will, therefore, with your permission, read a few calculations which I have made In the following calculations, the revenue is the actual revenue for the year ending 30th June, 1575. The expenditure is the esti mated expenditure for the year ending 30th •Tune, 1876. The amount of the debt is from'the Colonial Treasurer's last Financial Statement, and the amounts expended under the Immigration and Public Works Loan are from the papers laid before the House of Re presentatives during lasb session. As sepa ration of Auckland from the rest of the colony has been spoken of, I have worked out the question for Auckland separately— the figures being, of course, included in the amounts for the North Island—but as the idea of separation for Auckland is too absurd, I will not again refer to it further than by quoting the figures. T. will not in flict 1113011 you tho figures in detail; it is impossible to follow and retain in the memory many figures, as read. I will there fore only state the principle upon which the questions are worked out, read tho result, and hand the details to the reporters. The calculations are made up on different principles. The first is on the basis that each island would retain its own land revenue; and that, as the native difficuly was a North Island matter, that the North Island should bear all expenses connected therewith. The revenue is the same in all the calculations, and is taken to consist of four items—consolidated, land, gold, and profit on constructed railways. I have assumed all the railways to be finished, and at the cost including liabilities, as shown in the last Public Works Statement, and have reckoned the North Island Railways to yield 2-L per cent., and the South 4 per cent, in their cost over working expenses. I have left, for the sake of simplicity, all provincial revenues out of the question, other than land and gold revenue, and as a set-off have left out of the expenditure all provincial departmental charges, police, gaols, hospitals, &c. lhey will nearly balance each other; any dif ference there is will be against revenue. In ' the first calculation, the annual charges, con sisting of the civil list, permanent charges, other than interest on debt, and depart mental charges, are divided into general and local, the local charges being pub down Gainst the particular island, and the general divided in proportion to contributions to the consolidated revenue, the expenses in con n°ec on with the Native Departmen; being principally, and that of the Armed Consta ilary, entirely, in the North Island The debt is divided as follows : The funded Pro vincial debt to the respective provinces, lhe funded Colonial debt, exclusive of immigra tion and public works, is divided in propor tion to contributions toConsohdatedßevenue and of the Immigration and Public Works lorn. The immigration portion is divide in proportion to the immigrants sent to each island; the public works portion in propor tion to the works executed in each island,

and the remainder in proportion to contribu tions to consolidated revenue. Revenue. Auckland. N.lsland. S. Island. Consolidated .. £310,842 £591,317 £962,192 Jf"d .. .. SOl 101,903 660,512 g°l.d •■ •• 0,651 ! 0,651 28,359 Estimated profit on constructed railways .. 18,346 45,350 151,911 Total ... £336,640 £745,281 £1,802,974 Funded Provincial Debts.—Auckland, £686,464; annual charge, £40,919. North Island, £1,154,455 ; annual charge, £67,579; South Island, £2,368,245; annual charge, £150,544. & Funded Colonial Debt.—Exclusive of immigration and public works, £5,225,161; annual charge, £308,579. Divided in pro portion to contributions to consolidated revenue:—Auckland, £1,045,505; annual charge, £61,743. North Island, £1,988,865 ; annual charge, £117,455. South Island, £3,236,296; annual charge, £191,124. Immigration and public works, £8,673,245; annual charge, £418,752, of which the portion appropriated for public works is divided in proportion to works executed in each province. Roads and tramways : Auckland, £172,572; North Island, £458, S7G; South Island, £197,005. Railways : Auckland, £733,857 ; North Island, £1,814,01S ; South Island, £3,797,769. Water supply goldfields: Auckland, £61,446; North Island, £61,446; South Island, £290,313. Coal exploration, &c. : Auckland, £1,252 ; North Island, £1,252; South jlsland, £7,760. Greymouth protective works : [South Island, £4,000; Immigration, £1,111,380; divided in propor tion to immigrants shipped. Immi gration : Auckland, £151,024; North Island, £436,910; South Island, £674,470. Remaining portion of Immigration and Public Works Loan divided in proportion to contributions to consolidated revenue: Auck land, £185,969; North Island, £353,770 ; South Island, £575,658. Summary of Immi gration and Public Works Loan : Auckland, £1,306,120, annual charge, £63,005; North Island, £3,126,272, annual charge, £150,950 ; South Island, £5,546,973, annual charge, £267, 532. Total annual charges on debt: Auckland, £165,727 ; North Island, £336,254; South Island, £609,500.

Annual Expenditure. — Civil list: £29,750 ; general, £29,750. Interest : £47,110; general, £47,110. Public depart ments, Class 1, £74,459 ; general, £70,334 Auckland, £640; North Island, £1,750; South Island, £2,375. Law and Justice, Class 2 : £65,721; general, £21,172 ; Auck land, £9,462 ; North Island, £16,793; South Island, £27,756. Postal, Class 3 : £146,99S ; general, £91,103 ; Auckland, £10,249 ; North Island, £19,978; South Island, £35,917. Telegraphic, Class 3 : £75,511 ; general, £28,681; Auckland, £8,553 ; North Island, £19,638 ; South Island, £27,192. Customs, Class 4: £57,292; general, £21,916; Auck land, £8,502; North Island, £14,S88; South Island, £20,458. Miscellaneous, Class 5 : £43,898 ; general, £43,898. Native depart ment, Class 6 : £36,193; Auckland, £17,847; North Island, £35,693 ; South Island, £500. Militia and Volunteers, Class 7 : £22,885 ; general, £3,446 ; Auckland, £5,911 ; North Island, £11,822 ; South Island, £7,617. Public domains and buildings, Class S : £23,351 ; general, £23,351. Constabulary : £91,000 : Auckland, £45,500; North Island, £91,000. Total: General, £380,701 ; Auckland, £106,(564 ; North Island, £211,562 ; South Island, £121,845.—Gene ral portion of above charges divided in pro portion to contributions to consolidated revenue: £380,761; Auckland, £76,186; North Island, £144,930 ; South Island, £235,831. Total: Auckland, £182,850 ; North Island, £356,492 ; South Island, £357,676. Summary of Expenditure and Revenue, —Civil List Departmental charges, &c, Auckland, £182,850; North Island, £356,492; South Island, £357,676. Annual charges on funded debt, Auckland, £165,727 ; North Island, £336,254 ; South Island, £{509,500. Total expenditure, Auckland, £348,577 ; North Island, £692,776; South Island, £9(57,176. Annual revenue, Auckland, £336,040; North Island, £745,251 ; South Island, £1,502,974. Balances available for immigration, public works, and education, North Island, £52,505; South Island, £535,798. Deficit, Auckland, £11,937. Provided that the expenses in connection with the Native Department and Defence, could be reduced, one half the balances available would stand thus: Auckland, £22,691 ; North Island, £121,700. Second .Calculation. —In the event of the South Island taking over £4,000,000 of the Funded Colonial Debt in consideration of her Land Fund, and being relieved in future from all charges on account of tho natives, the, balances available for Immigra tion, Public Works, and Education -would stand thus -.—Auckland, £35,325; North Island, £142,417; South Island, £745,854. Or,with the assumed reduction in Native and Defence Departments, thus :— Auckland, £69,976 ; North Island, £211,674. Third Calculation.—lf in agreeing to the terms for the of partner ship between the Islands the' Land Fund and. Gold Revenue were considered as parts of the Consolidated Revenue and the civil list and general departmental charges—also the Funded Colonial Debt, excepting certain por tions of the Immigration and Public Works Loan—were divided in proportion to the contributions to such revenue, the balances available for public works, immigration, and education would stand thus :—Auckland, £35,562; North Island, £113,381: South Island, £774,922. Or, with the assumed re duction in Native and Defence Departments, thus :—Auckland, £70,191 ; North Island, £182,(538.

—You will observe that the most favourable of those calculations for the North Island is the one assuming that the South will takeover £4,000,000 of the colonial debt, and the remainder, with the exception stated, in proportion to her contibutions to consolidated revenue. Under such an* ar rangement the North Island shows a balance available for public works, immigration, and education, of £211,674; but that balance is uncertain. The principal portion of the revenue of the North Island is derivablefrom Customs duties, the cessation of the present large expenditure from the loan 3 ■will very materially reduce the receipts from that source; to what extent this may affect the balance mentioned it is im possible to estimate, but the risk is such that it must be an element in the con sideration of the question. But even taking that sum—Will it suffice for the objects stated throughout the whole of the ; North Island? After providing for education and the necessary roads and bridges, there would be nothing left for immigration and ab solutely nothing for any large public work and there is no margin of revenue over cur rent expenditure upon which to borrow the amount necessary to complete the railways from Auckland to Napier, and from Auck land to Taranaki, particularly with the risk of a native outbreak always and for years banging over us with our reduced resources. We may not think this risk to be much,but it affects the minds of distant capitalists. One result of this would be a complete stop page of railway extension in this island, and that, from an Auckland point of view, means the loss of a considerable portion of her ■ trade with the East and West Coasts. Tara naki, Wellington, and Napier will soon

be connected by railways, and if Auckland is left out in the cold, her trade with those places will very soon slip out of her hands. (Cheers.) From an Island point of view, it means re tarding the opening up of the country for years. Another result will be the forced imposition of a property and income tax, and that at no very distant day. Not that I object to the principle of an income tax. It may be inquisitorial, and, to some extent, injurious, leading to false declarations ; but nothing can be said against its equity, it is right that a man should contribute towards the expenses of government in proportion to his means, and when it becomes necessary to increase taxa tion I will support the impositiqji of a pro perty and income tax. (Cheers.) Nay, further, I will advocate that such be in-

creased, accompanied by a reduction of the duties on the necessaries of life. (Cheers.) But when such an income tax is imposed, it must not be local, it must be over the whole colony. The North Island would offer poor inducements to immigrants with capital, if we had a property and income tax and the South Island had no such tax ; they would not only be deterred from casting in their lot with us, but the tendency would be to drive many of our own settlers southwards. It may be said that the expenses of government could be greatly reduced by Separation, and that retrenchment would then be practicable, Possibly this may be the case, but I do not see that retrenchment is impracticable without Separation. Besides, in the calculations the cost of the Native and Defence Depart ments have been reduced one half, and nothing allowed for the departments of Im migration and Public Works—They would scarcely be required to any great extent.

The Postal, Telegraph, and Law and Justice departments could not be reduced with advantage, and even although rigid economy was practised, our jiroportion of the expenses of the Federal Government, and the expenses of our State Government,

could not amount to much less than six-

fifteenths of the expenses of the present Government. While considering the ques-

tion of Separation it will not be out of place to look at the condition of that part of the Colony from which we wish to be separated. Is the South a poorer and less prosperous island than the North ? Has the poverty of our Southern fellow-settlers proved a drag on our progress V They may have been a drag upon us, but from our own supincness, not from their poverty; in everything which constitutes the wealth of a people, they are before us. In population, in commerce, in manufactures, in agricul ture, in pastoral pursuits—-in imports, in exports, and in revenue—our credit is im proved by being in partnership with tho .South Island. (Cheers.) We want capital to develope our resources, and credit pro perly used will supply the capital. Let us, therefore, not seek to dissolve the partnership, but rather exert ourselves to re-adjust the conditions. Some believe that in the North Island we will yet have a very valuable public landed estate, piearly as valuable as they have in the South. lam not sanguine on this point, but hope it is true. There can, however, be no doubt as to the great value of the Crown lands in the South Island. They are estimated to be worth as much as the whole indebtedness of the colony, and when the present leases of the runs expire, as many of them do in 18S0, the annual in come will probably be more than sufficient to pay all the interest and sinking fund on the colonial debt—(cheers) —and that land belongs to the colony—not to any particular portion of it. (Cheers.) If we are true to ourselves and to our own interests we shall yet secure a fair share of that estate—if not all at once by degrees, if not next session in some future session—but if we should be un fortunate enough to get Separation any claim or interest wc have in it is gone and for ever. (Cheers.) Again, we have no definite authority to assume that the South will be willing to take over £4,000,000 of the debt as a special charge. It is said that such a proposal has been made by Southern leading men, and for them it may be considered a liberal offer; even although it may not suit us, but before putting much weight on it 1 would like to have heard it openly stated and discussed. (Cheers.) One point those Southern men are less | reticent about, and that is their deter mination to retain the land fund. That was the object they had in view in opposing the Abolition Bill, and that is now their avowed object in agitating for Separation. (Cheers.) The question lias often been put to me, Are you a supporter of the present Government? My reply is, I approve of a portion of the policy of tho Government, and have confidence in some of the members of the Ministry. (Cheers, laughter and hisses, and counter-cheers.) I do not name any one gentleman. I ap prove of their policy of maintaining the unitj of the colony. I approve of pushing on the railways, until all the main centres of population in each island are connected. (Cheers.) i approve of making education a Colonial question, and providing for it out of Consolidated Revenue. (Cheers.) On the other hand, I disapprove of, their pro posals to localise the Land Revenue, even in the slightly modified shape which it takes in the Abolition of the Provinces Act." (Hear, hear.) In their administration, re form and retrenchment are absolutely required, particularly in some of the depart ments—the Agent-General's department I consider badly managed, and absurdly ex pensive ; the expenses of his office, from £12,000 last year, have beecn in creased to £20.000, and with the prospect of less work. . One Minister makes important appointments without the knowledge or con currence of his colleagues. For instance — the indefinite contract with Messrs. Brogden and Sons, which shut up certain works from being let by public tender, thereby' very materially increasing the cost of such works; also, the recent appointment of a conservator -of State forests, who, so far as New Zealand trees are concerned, Avill practically have everything to learn after his arrival in the colony. (Cheers.) Another Minister has a partiality for lump sum votes, and, at the same time, has an objection—in the interest of the country, of course—to give any details of such expenditure. I have no wish to charge anyone with misappropriation, but there should be nothing hidden in such matters. (Cheers.) 1 believe the secret to be that the said Minister has a weakness for retaining amongst the natives the name which he sometimes gets —Makarini with the openhand; that Minister has also an expensive hobby in the shape of a steamer for his de partment —it might more properly be called a steam-yacht for his own use. The native policy has so far been successful. It has preserved the peace of the colony, and, at all events, peace has been preserved—(cheers and laughter)—but at a cost which cannot be maintained ; and the department is so managed that it obstructs the progress of the country. One instance came under my own observation, and I believe there are many others. Of the block of land confiscated in the Bay of Plenty District, one-half— ! about 100,000 acres—was given back by the Governor to to the Ngaite rangi tribe. A Native Commissioner was afterwards to hold a Court for the purpose of dividing this land amongst the natives—we hayo a right to assume for the purpose of making it available for settlement by lease

or otherwise. Pending the sitting of the Court, a settler from the South, with capital, made an arrangement for leasing a block of this land. The natives from whom he leased were recognised by the others as being entitled to the land. A fair rental was agreed upon, and the arrangements— 'if not made with the concurrence—were made with the knowledge of the Govern ment officers. Two or three instalments of rent were paid, but as the lessee had _no tenure, he could not go on with his im provements, and as he could get no returns jhe naturally objected to pay rent. That was nearly six years ago, and matters are ; still "as you were." The natives have i lost their rent, the settler time and money, I and the country the produce which would | have been fraised from the land, but for . the obstructive policy of the Native Depart

ment. As for the Native Land Purchase Department, a good deal has been said of that lately, and not much good. I will only further remark that the method, or want of method, in which business is done in that department is such that if jobbery does not exist, it must be that the character of the officers employed places them above temptation. Sir George Grey is entitled to the thanks of the country—(cheers) for his exertions last session in exposing the abuses existing in this depart ment, and of placing native land pur chases on a better footing for the future. Holding those opinions,'if any Opposition is formed with the view of replacing the pre sent Government, but at the same time accepting their policy as regards the unity of the colony, railway extension, and educa tion, and laying down as the cardinal point of their own policy that the land fund shall be made colonial revenue, and adding reform

in administration and retrenchment in ex penditure, I need scarcely say I would support such a party. But if separation is the policy of the Opposition, and unless it can be shown that my calculations are erroneous—l do not mean in detail, but alto-

gether erroneous—that your interests and

those of the North Island lie in that direc tion, if you should do me the honour of

electing me, I will be found voting against that party. Not that I dislike the present Government less, but that I dislike more the policy with which it would be intended to replace that of the Ministry. It is said, and it looks as if there was some truth in the statement, that very few in this province really want Separation; that the cry is used for it merely as a means to an end. (Cheers and hisses.) I cannot see the wisdom of such a course. It is dangerous ; it is like playing with edged tools; it prevents unanimity amongst us. If we do not want Separation, let us cease to ask for it. (Cheers hisses, and counter-cheers.) We are merely exhausting our strength fighting the battles of the only part of the country whose in terests are opposed to ours ;and to justice. Let Auckland cease to expect any benefit from an alliance with the provincial party of Otago and Canterbury—let us seek some platform on which the whole of the North Island, together with Westland, Nelson, and Marlborough, can unite; and we have not far to look for that platform. It is—The Unity of the Colony, and one purse. (Cheers.) Let Auckland send her represen tatives to the next Assembly united under the leadership of Sir George Grey, and with that as the object in view, and with our new allies, and with the barrier of Provincialism removed, I see nothing in the way of complete success. (Cheers.) I have a dislike to use personal argument in asking for your suffrages. Still there arc one or two which may be mentioned without any breach of good taste. (Cheers.) One gentleman at a recent public meeting in the Choral Hall, said that we ought to be careful not to send to the Assembly men who would make a trade of politics—(cheers) - that there were too many of such men. No one who knows anything of me will say there is any likelihood of my making a business of it. Cheers.) No emoluments or place have any temptation for me. Another reason is that I am now speaking to what may be called the business constituency of Auckland ; there is some weight in it, and that is, that there are too few business men in the As sembly already. We want men there who arc trained to look into business accounts — men who understand something of bank ruptcies. — (loud laughter) — something of tariffs; something of drawbacks ; who knows, in fact, something of the financial arrangements of the colony, and for that reason, I think, 1 have a claim upon the suffrages of the electors of City East. (Cheers.) In referring to the condition of the South Island, in saying that it has great wealth, and prospers, I had no desire to cast reflections upon the North Island. I have still confidence in the North Island, and I believe in its future prosperity. Let us not try to throw obstacles in the way of its progress. Whatever comes of it, I am an Auckland man. If you are prosperous, I hope to share in that prosperity. If you are not prosperous, I am bound to share with you in your adversity. I will not add anything further to what I have stated. I am prepared to answer any questions put to me, or, at all events if not prepared, I will answer them to the best of my ability. (Loud applause.) Mr. FBLTUS, on ascending the platform, was received with cheers and hisses. He said, Mr. Chairman, 1 have a question to ask Mr. Clark. (Laughter.) Will you support the sons of old Colonists in New Zealand in their endeavour to have their rights recog nised by the General Government by a free grant of land, and support the scheme ? (Groans and hisses.) I have a perfect right to speak. I am an elector for City East, and have been amongst you 30 years. (Renewed groans.) Ma. Clark : Mr. Chairman, I rather think this is introducing details which are of a trifling character. I have not thought very much about the matter ; but, so far as I know, the sons of old Colonists have no special claims to land grants. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) Ido not say I would oppose any measure to give them land grants ; but I am not prepared at present to give a favour able answer to the question. Mr. Feltus : Would you support a reso lution of want of confidence in the present Government on account of the mess they have made of public affairs ? Mr. Clark : I think my address answers that sufficiently. (Cheers.) Mr. Feltus : The 24th clause of the Abolition Act provides that a shire, when constituted, shall stand in place of the Road Board Districts of which it is composed, and that all moneys payable to them shall come to it. By this clause nearly £300,000 is secured to Timaru and Gladstone District, — Mr. Stafford's : would you support the repeal of the Abolition Bill unless the Govenmeht has this clause expunged ? Mr. Clark : I would not support the Abolition Bill with my present opinions upon any consideration. (A voice : You mean support the repeal ?) Yes ;I' would not sup port the repeal of the Abolition Bill. This particular clause is merely recognising past arrangements ;it is nothing new. I object to it decidedly, and would vote in favour of having the clause altered; but, even as it stands, I see that we arein no worse position under that clause of the Abolition Bill than we have hitherto been. (Cheers.) i Mr. Feltus : Would you support Sir George Grey in the endeavour to have an Act passed to compel the disgorging of all

native lands purchased by the Government Land Purchasing Agents for themselves, their relatives and friends, while engaged in the Government service ?

Mr. Clark : I do not think I can see my way to support that. (Hisses and counter cheers, laughter, and cries of "Oh! Oh!" It is a matter which does not affect me, and I can speak out upon it. I have heard about compacts ; but in this case the Government have secured the services of those men upon those conditions. The interests of third parties are in volved, and however much I may the Government for making such an arrange ment, after the arrangementjwas made any purchases of land made under such an ar rangement I consider we have no right to trench. (Hisses and counter-cheers.) Mr. Feltus : Will you support Sir George Grey in an effort to have the two Islands equally represented in the Central Legisla ture. (A voice': " Turn him out." Another voice : " Oh, give him a show.") Mij. Clark : I approve very much of the policy on this question, and I will certainly support it.

Mr. Feltus : Would you support a measure for the repeal of the Members In demnity Act, commonly known as the Dis qualification Act, of last Session, so that prosecutions might be instituted against members of Assembly who were guilty of unlawful pecuniary transactions with the Government ?

Mr. Clark, who appeared to be reflecting (when there were loud cries of " Answer the question"), said : I am not afraid of the question, I am merely thinking in what shape I will put my answer. (Cheers and laughter.) Gentlemen, I do not think it would serve any good purpose to bring up a bill to set aside that Act. (Cries of "Oh'C-h!" and cheers.) I think, so far as I have seen or read about the transactions which this bill was intended to cover, there is no likelihood of any action being taken against any gentleman under tho Disqualification Act. I think the question is in reality of no importance. ( Oh ! oh ! and cheers.)

Mr. Feltus : Will you support a reso lution, if brought forward by Sir George Grey, in favour of insular separation, with Auckland as the capital of the North Island?

Mr. Clark : I think I may make the same answer to that that I did to one of the previous questions, viz. : That my remarks answered it already. Of course, it is of some importance who brings it forward. If Si r George Grey introduces a measure, or any one else introduces a measure to expose jobbery, I will support it. (A voice : Answer the question.) My address answers the question. But I will repeat it, and that is that unless I see that my calculations are erroneous, and unless that I see that it is to your interest, and to the interest of the North Island to vote in favour of Separa tion, I will vote against it. (Cheers.)

Mr. Feltus : Will you acknowledge Sir George Grey as your leader in the House, and will you follow him in all main questions of public policy? (Oh! oh! hisses and groans.)

Mr. Clark : I have indicated already that if Sir George Grey's lead is in the direction of opposition, I will not support him. On the other hand, if his lead is in the direction of turning out the Ministry—not for the purpose of insular separation—not to upset their policy, but to improve upon it, I will support him. I stated before that I approved of certain portions of the policy of the Ministry, and I am not going to stultify myself now by say ing that I would support any one to overturn that policy ; but if the Opposition is for the purpose of turning out the Ministry, taking up the best part of their policy, and adding to it the principle of taking the land fund of the colony, and making it colonial revenue, I will act with Sir George Grey. (Cheers.)

Mr. Feltus : Will you vote for the repeal of the Abolition Bill, unless the land fund is made colonial revenue ?

Mr. Clark : I have answered that ques tion before, but I will answer it again. If [ see a tendency on the part of the Ministry to localise the land revenue, then I will certainly vote for the repeal of the Abolition Act—(cheers) —but then, suppose I vote for the repeal of the Abolition Act, that does not affect the question. (A Voice : Ques tion !) That is answering the question. Will I vpte for the repeal of the Abolition Bill, unless the land fund is made colonial revenue ? I will not. (Hisses and counter-

Mr. Carr, who on ascending the platform was received with cheers and a few hisses, said : On my road to this place Mr. John King put a number of written questions into my hand,and requested me to ask those ques tions. I do not understand them, neither do I understand why he should have given Mr. Feltus a larger number of those ques tions than he has given me. (Loud laughter, and cheers.) However, these are the ques tions (handing them to Mr. Clark). Mr. Clauk (reading) : " Would you sup port the principle advocated by Sir George Grey of having the Upper House elected or nominated by the Parliaments of the North and South Islands ?" That.is a question I have never studied, and I think it is scarcely fair to require a distinct answer to it at once. (Hear, hear.) " Would you support a resolution similar to that intro duced by Sir George Grey for the repeal of the duty on tea, sugar, and flour; and would you support a tax of a. penny a pound on wool?" (Laughter.) I should not like, gentlemen, to commit myself off hand by answering a question which affects the revenue of the colony. I should like to see the particular circumstances under which such measures were brought forward. As I have said before, L approve of a reduction in taxation upon these necessaries of life, and would prefer to see an income and property tax imposed, in. preference to having the burden of our taxation raised from these sources, because I think the incidence of taxation is unequal. As regards the second portion of the question, it seems to me fair that a tax should be imposed upon what forms a considerable portion of the products of the landed estate of the country, and that let out at low rentals. But it ap pears to me that the colony can not get it in both ways. If Id. per pound is put upon the export of wool the colony will receive less rental from the waste lands when we come to re-let them four years hence. I woidd say this, I approve of the large portion of the taxation of the country falling upon such parties as the tax would affect, and I think this is almost as far as you can require me to go. (Cheers.) The Chairman : Has any other elector any other question to ask? Mr. Peacock said he did not wish to detain the meeting with any lengthy obser vations upon the important statements which had been made by Mr. Clark. He thought, however, that the meeting would agree with him, that that gentleman had made a nearer approach to that distinctness which was so much desired, and so much wanting in the recent political utter ances of public men. He believed they would all recognise, to a very great extent, the importance which attached to an ex pression of opinion at this political juncture upon questions of future Government so intimately connected with the well-being of the colony. He thought when a gentleman who had attained such a high position in the community—such well-merited respect,— who, from the large interests he had at stake

in the colony, and who, in addition t» tkest things, could bring to the consideration of public questions that business experience and ample leisure —came forward to _eak their suffrages, he was not only entitled to a patient hearing, but at least a vote of thanks. In view of the fact that another candidate would address the electors of City East this week, he would not wish the meeting to pledge itself to vote for Mr. Clark, but he thought he might ask, and they would be glad to accord,'a heasy vote of thanks for his address that evening. He had much pleasure in moving, "That this meeting records a hearty vete of thanks to Mr. Clark for the expression of the views which he has given to-night." Mr. Probert, from the body of the hall, said : I have great pleasure in seconding that resolution.

The Chairman put the resolution to the meeting, aad it was carried unanimously. Mr. Clark: Mr. Chairman and gentle men, I thank you for the vote you have given me, and for the patient hearing you have accorded me to-night. I never doubted that you would give me that, because, though we differ as to the means by which we hope to obtain our ends, the objects we have in view are the same. I beg to move a vote of thanks to the Chairman.

The vote was passed by acclamation, and. the meeting separated.

Printed and published by the propietors, George McCullagh Reed, of St George's Bay, and Henry Brett, of Parnell, at their General; Steam Printing Office. Wvn in the Ciiy of Auckland, NlwZiatand:— 'Tuesday, Daoeinlw 21, 1178.



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