MR SWANSON ON PROVINCIAL CHANGES.

"Whatever may be the various opinions of our readers on the vexed question of the pro posed Provincial changes, the people of AtJcklaiid will be interested in reading the following speech delivered on the subject during the debate in the Bouse by Mr Swanson, who is generally regarded by the community as the truest representative of common, sense in the Assembly :— Mr Swanson,—Sir, ia considering this question it appears to me to be a fight be tween the weak and the strong. We are told, and I know, that the House has the powtsi to settle this question. Never mind the fair play or the merits of the case. There is no use in going into the merits of the questibn when, honorable members in the Bouse have made up their minds upoh it. The reason • for this proposal appears to me to be pocket: to be cash. lam perfectly satisfied that the finances of this colony will very soon be in such a state that fresh revenue will be seeded. That strikes me as being the only solution of this matter ; it is a question of £s. d. We have been told about the pros perity of the country- how much the revenue was increasing, and so forth : if this means anything, it means that the people are get ting on very well under their burdens, and that they can bear a little more. Ido hot know what more burdens can be placed upon the people without res6rting to direct tax ation. A tax Upon, wool has been suggested by myself ; but the wool-growers and equat ters would not like that. An income and property tax has been talked about, a good many representatives in this House would not like it. I consider that either of these would be a perfectly fair and legitimate tax. but they would be very unpopular with those classes who would have to bear them; whereas this difficulty might be avoided for a time if the land revenue of the colony could be made to meet the exigencies of the Colonial Trea sury. A good deal has been said about what has taken place at the elections, and the honorable gentleman who sits opposite (Mr Cutbbertson) challenged any member who is opposed to Jbese resolutions to say whether a pledge had njot been asked, and taken from aim to do away with Provincial Councils in favor of central government. I will answer that at once. The seat I now occupy Was filled by a.gentleman distinguished in this House. He stood for that constituency, and I have not the slightest doubt that he had a certainty that he would walk the course. Some of my friends thought 1 would possibly not be a bad stop-gap. 1 was proposed, and that gentleman retired. He found, possibly, a better and more intelligent const tuency. though not half so numerous. On the day I was nominated the-e were two other candi dates, supeiior to me in education and every thing else, but who were not so pronounced as 1 was on this question. However, they retired, and I was elected. I told the elec tors, "Do not think that, I am going down t» Wellington to do what "you think right ; I am going down there to do what I think right. If what I think right is what you think wrong, then if even a decent minority of you Bay that you wish me to resign I will do so, and yen can find another man to do the work for you. If you are displeased with me I will retire in favour of any one who will do your Work better." I told them what B»y principles were, and I believe I would have been more acceptable if I bad^told my constituents that I would come here to oppose Mr Vogel and his great scheme ; but I told them that the country was committed to thai scheme—that i,t was the policy of the country, and that I would give him a fair, but not a blind, support, whenever I could conscientiously do so ; and that if 1 was in any doubt as ifco how I should act on any question I would give him and his Govern ment the benefit of the doubt. I thought it would have been unfair to turn out the Government who had initiated these great works, and who had found the money to carry them on, and I considered that they should be assisted in carrying out their scheme, and should receive full credit if it should prove to be a success. I believed that those who initiated . the policy and - raised. the money; ought to have the credit or the blame. In the first session I occupied a seat in this .Assembly I generally voted with the Government. In that session there were various promises made. One of these Was, that an Education Eill was to be bi ought in and passed which would be of general application over the colony. It was to be printed tnd circulated throughout the colony, so that every one would have an opportunity of discussing it. It was to be brought downs to the Bouse, and discussed with all the knowledge acquired on the question by the representatives of the people. That Bill was sent all round the colony, and it set the people by the ears : there was no end of discussion, and we saw the clergy opposing each other on the public platform on the subject. It was decided that there should be secular education in the Province Of Auckland. I bad hoped that such a measure would become law ; but the Govern ment failed to keep their promise regarding it. 1 hen there was £60,000 voted for roads in the Noith, to be spent at the rate of £15,000 a year. I doubt whether there was fifteen pence spent that year. That was promise No. 2 not fulfilled. It was twice carried in this Rouse, by a majority of two to one, that the next session of this Assembly should be held in Dunedin. Well, that decision of the House was disregarded by the Government. There was another promise* and we are coming to it now—and if they had brought this down, then I would have said they were, at all events, men of honor : it was the introduction of a Bill to define -the powers of the provinces. We have it now in the resolutions before the House with a vengeance. We had these promises made to us, not one of which was even pretended to be kept by the Govern ment. I believe in people who keep their Word. Is there much reliance to be placed in men who make promises like these—and which had been discussed by the people of Auckland from one end of it to the other— when we find every one of those promises quietly put to one side ? A great deal has been said as to how badly and how expen sively the Provincial Governments conduct their business. Where are the men who conduct Provincial Governments found? I believe they are found amongst the people, and, as a general rule, are the same as the members of this House. Where ate we to find the immaculate gentlemen who are to carry on the business if the .North Island provinces are to be swept away, and placed in the bands of a Central Government ? Who are the agents that are to cany on the business for Taranaki,| Hawke's Bay, Auck land Wellington? I suppose they will be nominated by the Government. If so, will they «o out and in with the Government ?, Are they to exercise all the powers of Superin tendents and Provincial Councils without popular election ? Who will bring tbe griev ances of the people before them? Who will bring the complaints of the Road Boards in the different districts before them ? All the abuses that we have heard of in connection with Provincial Councils will be heard of still more under such a system. There will be no abuses that will not be increased tenfold, for the simple reason that they will not be brought to light. The men who occupy seats in the Provincial Councils are in no way in. ferior to the members of this House. There

are several member* in the A ucklsnd Council in whose favour I would willingly resign my Beat in this .Assembly, and I should do all I possibly could to get them elected to my seat, as I know any of them would fill it more worthily than I do. Their business doeß not permit them to accept a seat in this House } and the country will be deprived of the Services of mm of talent and ability by the abolition of Provincial Councils, in which such men now serve the public A great deal has been said derisively about Provin cial Councils being schools for politicians. I believe that the gentlemen who occupy a prominent position in this House have found their way to public life through these insti tutions. They gained a knowledge of busi ness apd experience there that has stood them in good stead when they took their position on the floor of this Bouse. Whether they entered the Provincial Councils from motives of personal ambition or patriotism one thing is certain, that the people first be came acquainted with their capacity for public business in the councils. The man who tabes a flying leap into this Assembly may turn out a perfect duffer, however much his friends may fancy him ; but let him take bis place in a Provincial Council, and itissoon discovered what his abilities are, and what are the views be holds ph public (jufcstions W^hat is the character of the legislation that takes place in the House? More than one half of the legislation that takes place here ought to be relegated to the Provincial Coun cils ; and if these are done away with the Assembly will require to be almost in per petual session,, We have had. this se?sion, a number of Bills of a local character from the various provinces. Why should hot Bills relating to sewerage, gasworks, and burial grounds be dealt with by the provinces themselves without the interference of this House ?, Look at the way in which the legis lation of the country is carried on "here. ]f we are to legislate at all we should do so, intelligently, and know something about what we are doing. Let us take, for instance, the Native Lands Act passed last session Does any member recollect the state of this TTonse at the time that Act was passed ? There was hardly a quorum of members pre sent. It Was left to the Native Minister to attend to ; and he Hid not even, condescend to reply. The only argument was, "Ring the bell," and come fifty men came stagger ing in from Bellamy's, and looked on what side the honorable gentleman stood, and voted accordingly It is perfectly im possible that this could happen in the Pro vincial Councils. Any subject that came before a Provincial Council the member? would be expected i' 6 know sometHng about , it, or they would expect to be enlightened by those who brought the subject forward. When T spoke to some honourable members ab"ut this matter they simply paid it wa« all right; they had the Native Minister in the Rouse, who undeistood all aboutit ; bu' whether right or wrong the colony had to pay for it. Ido not consider this to bp a good state of things at all : I think we ought tolegiflate about things which we understand It would be infinately better to leave the Na tive Department to be Solely managed by f;be Nptive Minister ; that he should have sole control; that he should not be thwarted or interfered with in any way, and that he should be held responsible. I have seen twenty Bills passed through this Bouse when there were not more than a dozen members present, and when they simy-ly pave silent votes ; and I have seen hundreds of thousands of pounds voted away without a single inquiry. That is quite con trary to my ideas of law - making. I do not think it is any wonder that the laws are defective that are made in such a hap-baizard sort of way. There are a number of subjects which have been brought forward this session upon v hieb this Bouse should legislate, and on which they should take an intelligent view, and endeavour to come to some wise and business like conclusion ; but of the 118 Bills on my file there are only about a dozen .of general application, all the rest relating to subjects which could be betterdealt withb\ Provincial Councils than by this Assembly. I bad something to do with a Bill for a Gas Com pany at the Thames, enabling it to lay down pipes and do other workß. I bad to pay down £25 before anything could be done in the matter. It was considered by a Com mittee in a little room— a hole-and corner business ; but until it passed through the secret process of the Private Bill Office, and the fees were paid, the people at the Thames ran the risk of having no gas. TA by should that not be all done in the Provincial Coun cil ? If there was any swindle, orany intended wrong, it would have been brought out there, but it could not be found out here. Another matter I will allude to is the case of an unfortunate man named Joyce, who was deprived of his rightr Ky an Act of the Assembly. The Bouse would never have agreed to anything of the sort if they had only known the particulars That could not have happened in the West land Provincial Council. Joyce would have had notice, and could have been beard before ihe Bill was passed. There is another thine that Provincial Councils do that is worthy of imitation. In Auckland, if there is a sudden increase to the population in ary district, we alter the representation very willingly. But what does this Bouse do ? Entirely the reverse. Members say, "You must have a great deal of chivalry about you; you must not interfere with people who have too much representation '." Ido rot object to that, but you do not make it right with those who have too little. Members of the Provincial Councils are scattered all over the couptry, and they bring their knowledge, to beai upon everything which comes before them ; but the agents to be appointed by the Government will cot consult with the people —they will issue their edicts as they please. Reference has been made to the multiplicity of the land laws, and the honorable member for Biverton held up a bundle of land laws as though it was a perfect horror —a scare-crow. Now, Ido not think this is an unmixed evil. If there is a variety of land laws an immigrant looks into them, and ihe deuce is in it if he cannot find onp amongst them that will suit him. ■ If eight or ten different communities of the Enplifih speaking people, with the feelings of the English race, try in their own way to solve the problems that come before them, the chances are each of them will hit upon some thing good which it would be desirable for the Colonial Legislature to adopt. ; Is the-e nothing to be gained by the colony from the tact, knowledge, and ability of the leading men that are brought forward in the Pro vincial Councils in the various provinces 1 I venture to say the colony has benefited by the experience of the Provincial Legislatures The Bouse has been dealing with an im portant subject of legislation, guided entirely by the result of a successful experiment in the Province of Auckland. I allude to the Permissive Bill, and I hope the honorable member for Rangitikei will not forget where he got that wrinkle. Has ne good come from the Province of Nelson in reference to the education question.? A good deal wa said about local administration ; but have Provincial Councils been unmindful of it Not at all. They have established Road Boards and have divested themselves o many of their powers, while the Assembly is doing the opposite. The provinces carry out those experiments of Local Boards, and if there should be a failure it is on a small seals; jt v not a wretched tiwoo that would brio.

ruin on ell were the failure general. We Can adopt the pood and avoid thebad in pro vincial legislatiop. Sir. I am perfectly satisfied that on many subjects, one law. applicable to the whole of the colony, canr.o* be passed. For instance, remember the Bill brought in by the honorable member for Heathcote, the Grass and Forest Fires Prevention Bill : Would any mortal man pay that it should become the law for the whole country ? If it did, we BJbould be literally " up a tree ". in the province I come from Then there is the Protection of Animals Act, suitable in one province, but not in. inotber. That shews the absurdity of legislating upon snob, matters for the whole colony. Let the honourable member for Heathcote by all means get his Bill passed to apply to Canterbury, where it would be of use, and let other provinces that are similarly circumstanced adopt it. Thus, instead of its being a scare cr6W\ an# a terror, it would be a good example id follow The provinces are poor, and ought to be kicked ; they lead difficult liven, and ought to be abolished. But instead of takmp that view of the matter this" .Assembly should carefully consider the whole subject, because the prdvinces have as much consti tutional fight to be • alive as the General Assembly. We should calmly considerwhat work the provinces can wisely and practi cally do, leave that work to them, and con fine ourselves to legislation that would apply to the whole colony. The provinces do n great deal of Useful work Take, for in stance, the mating of roads, the conduct of education, providing hospitals, gabi.a* asipms for the sick and destitute, and harbours All these mußt be attended to by some one. and cannot pc done without money ; .but they cannot he conducted in too much day Hsht, for without that they become jobs. It is neither this House nor Government Agents that can do that. They could net get accurate information, and they would run a very great chance indeed of being de ceived Bfsidesj We could not get men who wonld be leap 6pen to corrupt influences thar Superintendents and members of Provincial Fxecutives. It t would be wjse in thi* TTonse to utilize the power We have got in the provinces. Sir, it has been admitted that the provinces have been of a great deal of use, and they are capable of being used for the future. Can they be utilized in any wav ? I hold they can in the wnv I havp al'uded to. Provincial Councils will be usp fnl in bringing greater looal knowing*, to hear upon questions than the General Ass<-mbly possibly can, or bah be. expected bring In this Assembly there are sixteen member' from the Province of .Auckland, j>nd if v c try to pass a measure about a matter with which we are acquainted we are perhars opposed 1 y the balance of the seventy-eigb« who know nothing at all about, it. I have tried in this Home to reduce nhupes. I hn^e pp'ken about Various matters about ss>la "Vs and appointments— until. I daresay th< Bouse was rather sick of ifc. "When meinbrr Jo that, they nre told they have a per<nn»l pique, and should not bring any private animosities into the House. A Minister gefp up and says so : Who is to be believed ? The number is pafc upon, and the job is perpe trated. ..Last year a job was perpe trated by appointing a Judge at Napier. He has written, saving be has nothing to do : but. if his action had taken a more practical shape, and he had handed back his salary, I could have appTe ciated it "Pnt there is no earthly use at all in my opprsirp such matters ; the Govern ment have the House completely at th'ir mercy in such cases. In the Provincial Councils it is impossible for members to hr ipnorant of puch matters, for they have local knowledge? If any arupe in reported in con nection with any of the provincial depart ments, a motion ib moved in the Oonrcil and an inquiry,is made F'vioVnce is taken, and the mf mbers of the Committee go to pe* for themselves If the complaints are un founded the officers are praised for their good conduct; but if th* complaints arc founded on truth the abuse is shown up. am 1 the offending officers are dismissed. How could such inquiries be con ducted from here ? let us take another matter. "W c have talked a pood deal o* a dictatorial Government. What would be the effect of thfa propored change beinp carried out? "What power would it place ir the hands of the General Government ? They have an army of (fficials under their control now ; they propose taking over all the provincial officials ; and there are, be sides, the army of expectants, who are not an insignificant element in such a calculation The police would be in their hands, at any rate The Superintendents are to be paid or pensioned ; and the provincial servantp, who are to be taken over, will also receive pensions at the end of their terms of pervice. The Licensirg Law is practically in the hands of the police, at le^st the publican? are at their mercy; and if they do not secure the elecHon of the ripht kind of mer their chance of getting a license next time wonld be Tather remote. It will be found that all the power of a centralizing Govern ment will be used to secure the return of men favourable to them. All the machinery they have in their hands will be set in motion to carry out their views. Ibey talk about » healthy Opposition. There will always be a few in opposition, a few too scrupulous for an> Government, however corrupt. I would object to this proposition if there was no other reason than that it would place tro much power in the hands of any Govern ment One or two matters now before fbe House show the difference between great and little things. A poor fellow presented a petition the other da\ ; he had been shot in .the pervice of the country, and although he bad not lost » limb be was nnaWe to wo^k He bad defended a redoubt like a hero, particularly after he was wounded, when, a* he Jay on the ground, he loaded the gunn for his comrades, who kept the "Natives at bay until assistance csme, and they were rescued. That man gets 8d a day —what do you think of that-for a l'bpral Government? —and be petitioned this House for a messenger's situa tion, . and although in every way qualified did not get it. On the table of the House is a report of a different style. It is a letter from the Hon. Thomas Russell, advising that all the penalties due by Mr Webb, which come to many thousands, should not be insisted on for various reasons : That we ought not to aek him for anything, and that very likely we would have a small chance of getting /it if we tried. It would not be liberal, ornoble, or grand ; it would not b« gentlemanly, and the correct thing, to ask Mr Webb for any of those penalties. It wonld not be right for a liberal Government to do it. The Government indorse this view of the case If such a matter had come before the Provincial Council of Auckland I know what they would have done if it had not been possible for us to recover the money in an .American Court of Law All the evidence of this gentleman's indebted ness, with the agreement and articles, would have b#en sent to America, advertised in tba papers, and sold to the highest bidder. I 'promise you that Mr Webb, as a capitalist, would have come down with a good many thousands to prevent the exposure ; and if he had not, some speculators would have bought up the bonds with the certainty of using them against him. If we had owed Mr Webb these thousands of pounds he would hare been down like a shot upon us, : and wou|d not have let ua off,.' Some honour*

able metnhera have said a great deal of the style of the General Government works and immigration, and have spoken very con- , temptuously of those carried out by the I provinces Sir, .Auckland sent home Mr May — now the honourable member for Franklin-as immigration apetit, and the men and women he sent out were in perfect contrast with thoee Pr Featherpton ha« shipped. In point of fact I heard it stated in this Hous?, by an honourable member now a Minister, that Dr Featherston was such a headstrong, obstinate man that he would pimply do what he liked, and would set +h« Government at defiance. If any one treated the Provincial Government of dockland in that way he would he told : "My man,- we will be able to do without you after Mon day ;" and if the Government were worth their Bait they would do that now with any servant that dicl not obey. But the Govern ment have been told repeatedly in this House that Pr Featherston made them, and could unmake them • tljat they owe their existence to him ; and that they are afraid to dismiss him lest be should come back and upset them. With regard to the immi grants that be has sent out. besides sending a number of floating pest-hois^es, there ip something worse. It is well known that I am not over pqupamish : but I have peen a few French ladies be sent out to .Auckland, and they made a very considerable impres sion upon this child. They have simply created a moral leprosy in the community. The rr'iscbipf is dor>e. and cannot be undone. T d-d not see anything of the kind with the 'mtnipmnts our agent Mr May, sent out. I think they Were of a slightly better class. If the General Government is going to crow, do nnt let it crow about its public works, for I ♦ hmk the works w<? 6b in * uckland will compare, in a modest. simple eort of way. with anything I have seen done by the General Government. If they had employer? the resources of the provinces, the work they have done would have been better and cheaper done, and they would have got an enr>f*no«s amount of assistance from the provinces. It hns bpen remarked, There ip nothing so centralisinc as provincialism.. I want to know where the. proof,of that asser tion is. I can speak of what has been done by the Provincial Ouncil of Auckland. It ha* been stripping itself of its powers. Who made the P.oad Boards but the Provincial 1 runcil ? Who made the City Board hu* the Provincial Conm-i1 ? Who made the Harhour R^a^d bnt thp Provincial PoU»HI ? It has divested itrelf of power in all thpßp and in o*hef matters This Aseemhly gave oit City Board a name : they called it a BoroupK Council What ha» bppn the consequence ? T rrom'pp you the Prime Ministpr's ronrnp in thip building are not nearly bo well furnished as the Mayor's room, in which one may pep v-aw-hnw el'rks drawing their £400 a-yeir. Why, the Mayor himself hap B;mr'v cubsided 'nto a clerk at £400 a-ypar, without dip missing the, one that was thpre hpfore him That has come from thehandl 1 we got tciour name: we got along pp'endfdly whpn wp were a City Board Something was said about contractp—whet capital contracts had been. madehy;the General Government ; and if there has bpfcn one thing bored into v* more than another it is that. I will no 4 refer to contracts generally, but will jtif>t allude to pea-going contracts, of which I havp a little know ledge. Wp have had thp Panama failure, the Hall failure, the Webb failure, and now thp Forbes fa;'ure. T do riot think any province could ha.ye made > w^tpp j"b than that, and T do not think thp General Government ought to pitime thpm pelves on ihpir contracts. They may plump themselves on the magnitude of their con tracts bnt thpy ought pot to crow so terrihlv a*»ont their success, which is vpry doubtful They have made many ludicrons failnrea Perhaps the Govprnment are justified in ar-o'ishing the provinces on account of th* expose membprs of the Provincial Councils make of their doingp, more especially the want of business foresight evidenced in thei» sending shiploads of materials to wronr pets I will allude to a mattpr that occurred in the Provincial Council of /uck 'and last session. A spepch was made which T am extrfmely sorry was not fully reportpd '"n the Dewppaperc. It w^ns stated at the *ime that they would not report it. I would have read it if it bad been printed, but T opnnot attempt to repeat it. Tt wop made by Mr Poche, of WaiVato ; and Mr Carleton. wbo ip a good judge of puch tilings, paid i* was the srpech of the pespion It would have electrified this Pouce r^ppecting *he •hings that are done in WaiVato by the Native Ppra'tmfnt. It vss a "stunner." »»d the whole t' irp was Fupported wifV ample proof and prffieiert evidence. The province was powprleps to do anything, hut ♦ here wap a bore that the ppeech would have got into the newspapers, but it did not. By exposing such matters. the Provincial Councils are certainly of use. Mpmhers have an opportunity of pettine to knrw how things are p omp on, and the members of the Pxecutives and the Superintendents can ''ring matters affecting their provinces before this House. Then. 88 to these agents, I should like to know how ♦ hey are to be advised, and bow thpy are to ret their infrriration ? The Government have not told us anything on that bead. I think the present Fystem ip the more preferable of the two. A great deal of healthy political life ie introduced among the people in the elections of Superintendents and Provincial Councillors, snd politics will be a very dead and-aUve business if the people are deprived of thoce popular rights. The people of the Forth Tslspd have as much right as those of the.Middle Wand to train their best tnpn in their Provincial Councils before fending them here. It has been said that the Provincial Councils are not worth the money expended upon them ; but I think they are, and a great deal more. My honour able friend the member for Waitaki urged upon the House to out down the dry tree of provinciaHpm. I was struck with what the honourable member said about cutting down the tree, and theaxenot being aglittering toy. I recollect, when I was ahoy, leading a story to this effect: A gentleman was walking in his garden in the spring time, and came to a vine a poor miserable looking thing. His little son said to him, " Tell the. gardener to cut it down," and his father replied, " I will apeak to the gardener about it " By-and-bv. in about six or eight weeks they came back again. The boy was delighted to see % tree covpred with green leaves, and beautiful looking. The father said. "Khali I ordpr that tree to be cut down ?" " T^o," replied the lad, "it is the most beautiful tree in the garden." " But," rejoined his father, " That is the tree you wanted cut down " The vine was" bare and rugged, bnt it was not dead ; and so it is with the provinces. The provinces are not dead. The General Government bas taken all their nourishment — has taken all their money, and grasped their revenuea, leaving them to do all the work. They promised, and treacherously promised, an allowance of £2 per head, and the very next year they put the provinces ofl with 15s per head ; and <f that bow much did they get? Was that a sacred com pact with the provinces under the sanction of an Act, and was it sacredly kept 'i Yet we hear of the sacred compact of 1856. which is to be binding for all time. Then as to the compact of 1856. lam one of those men who do not care one rap about the com.' pact of 1856, or of any other '50, I oome bw to dp wh»t ii right j un 4 wh*t wftjright

'to do thi* may not he so now. Tha*^ ™* rieht at the firflp may he true ; hat *»-.* Qg cWs of Acts should be phyed fast and loo*, with, and another be binding, I cannot con ceive, ieif us all go in together, and lam one with you Now, with regard to this re solution which the Government have brought down, I may say that I think T saw some in dication of it before, which led me to believe that the Southern provinces ought to o"o something to prevent an.inroad on their land revenue. I am not quite sore that this is not brought forward to put those gentlemen with the long purses on th.eir mett'e, and t6 see whether they are not ready to assist the straightened provinces in tbe North I thinfc they should come forward and apsist the nor thern provinces, andif they are wise they will. Tbe honorable member for Wellington City paid that tbe General Government, acting as an enormous sponging macnine^was bringing all the revenue to itself. He was c[uite right ; but there are other ways in which it sponees than that which he described In fact they have all ports of ways of getting revenue. This is one : Two men commit an assault in the street, and one is fined £5 that goes to Wellington. The other is sent to paol for a week or two-^he baa to be kept at. tbe expense or the province. Then, again, take tbe Crown grants. Ninety-nine out of a hundred people imagine, in their innocence, when they pay their fees for their grant that they are paying it for the deed. Nothing of the sort ; every penny of the money comes down here, and the provinces pay for pre paring all these Crown grants. A great deal has heen said about Provincial Gevernm«nt* putting on direct taxes if they want to exist; but I think that advice might with great advantage be taken by the honorable gentVmen on those benches. If the Provincial Governments are to do that why should not the General Go vernment give them a practical example ? One example is worth a thousand precepts. T>n that, and see how the people will act ? What will local self-government mean if yon this resolution ? I will tell you what it wilt riiCan : H W*H wean, special taxation for education ; special taxation for charitable and lenewlevt purposes for the support of the poor, and of the widows and the orphans; spebial taxation for lunatic asylums, for gaols, police, and other matters. That is what it will mean, for T atn certain that the ."oath will not allow the general revenue to be spent, and themselves to be taxed, for the th« sup nort of the sick and destitute andfor the ~"»int.enanca of local institutions in the North They simply won't rJo it T have not the slightest respect for the compact of 1856, and I say that gentlemen from tb,p youth need toever in th«> oligrb^eft* degree ex pect that the great majority of those who come from tbe >"o»th will pat the slightest attention to it. I tell the TToupp that if th'S mespnre is carried that wflf be i tfst question in the province I cmnfl from, and we shall be s*nt here to burst np this compact. Plenty of men will he found who have no pcrnplep ab^ut the matter, and why sbottd they ? The trnth is, that the legislation of this HouSe—whether wisely or unwisely I will not say—has been ruining Auckland. There was a time when '«■ was the finest City in the. colony for trade, and now we henf honorable gentlemen de =f.ribe it as hedging for doles from the ooloiV. We were living in the centre of 50,000 Natives, who were fripndly to Ufl and every man, woman, and child of whom was a Con snmer. We were able to send away ship londs of produce ; we bought all tbev pro duced, and sold tbem a pr* at deal of what they consumed. That was the peaceful and nropperottß condition of Auckland at one time, but what did this FoUse o"o ? It de clared war with these Natives, bred animo sity between the two races, put an end to this peaceful state of things, nnd lafd the foundation of that enormous Native Office which has been such an incubus on the colony. And thtydid worse than that, for 'hey swept together tbe scum of all the colonies, and flung them down in the Pro vince of Auckland. The c'aims for compen »ation during the Native war were notlargelv caused by the Native? but by tbese men. I Ho not. for one moment say that there were not many men who came over at that time, who were actuated by a love of adventure, and a pincere deeire to asuist those of their own race ; but T do say that the great bnlk nf tbfm were people whom the colony wou'd tiave been very glad to get rid of, and who ''•'d nothing but m'SohiVf Thepp a»-e the things which r-a^e mined the province, and ret. we are twi'ted here with our poverty ■irid wretchedness, as if the"** wpre crimes, an our own ''oing. Provi^^a]^* stand at * great disadv3nta.*\s hpr«. Tbe battle is not *nir They fight with Hen 1 hsno'g. for anv ♦hir>p they rooy do can be over-mipd by this Thorite. One r<-vprpp here is fatal to them ; while their puccpss onlr leave* th^m wher*l 1 ♦■hey were. No reposition thp P»-ovir<f>i»li<»tg may pass has any effect for tbp mow^n* tbe Ce.ntrnliptf a^e ptfopjr ermnpb i* will V>p r<?- T-eveed. T hone, bof-ever. tba + Provinoia-lists ' will fight for tbp pyßtem they Wlieve in * food dpal has been said abort an anneal to the country, pno 1 T say that- if Provinc'alists ' «rp only trne to thprn^elvpn. the^e is rto earthly fpar of a Bill p»s«in(? bpforp the People have a chance of sppak'ng ont on tHa snhject Tet me tell the honorable grpntle men on those benohps that, whether tbpap rppolutiona are carried or rot. we shall have to go to tbp country uron them. Yon may brine a Bill down next epssion to givp effect *o them, but T promise that you cannot pns" i* before th« countvv has bepn apppal«»d to. Tf tb«> people wish the provincps t o 9tan(^ tbev will say so. But let me go back tn •where I started from. T believe tbe whol« lr»y *-o this resolufion is cash that financial onltjos nrp before us ; bnt if th« Present Go vmrnent c«n pet bold of the latri 'nn<^ it wfll last t^pir reipn, and l"t s^mp fntiT-p Go vernmpnt look nf-^r an income *nx or r»»-o. pertv tax. Whether th« r«popl« consider th«t this is a prnppr sacrifice for tbpm to makp. is for tbone who hove alare* Hnd fun^ at. their disposal to tbinV over. I may tell the provinces from which tho*e gpntlptrtfln come that rh^r* will V«p no mernv shown to thpm ; and if I C">n judge *rom the sppeobps on tbe otbpr «id 9 there w^il nlw«y«t V>« fr>nT)d r»popl«. eivbpr Peeking officn fnr tbemsolvos or tbp'r rplntives y\>o *>c hannr t^ so in for tbp nboLit'op of tb*» province* of *bp South ns well am of thQ North. I"hey m"v d»r»p*id urtort it there wil! be a r»omr»"ct body in the, TTouhp r^a^v to drive home tbi w^dge. and tbpn this solptnn enmn^tet of which wp hew po much will go up likei «moV«. I do not say this in order to induop thpm> to resist this chartgn. bnt simnlv to s°t bef6*« tbpm » fact which i* a« OPrtain to comp, to naw an the sun in to rise to.mor r ow. The 'Province of Auckland, in its present financial state, j cannot go on. We wavt a change, and we must have a chavae if we are to go on; and if that is acJcnotoledgwq the whole '■ case, you may have it We are poor, I quite Agree to that. Whoso fault in it \ It is the fault of this Honae, and of tbe Govprnmpnt. I aav that if we wpr*> allowed [to legislate, for ourpelves wp could do so far more cheaply and" far bptter than this House can do y and that it is the ctntv of thin Housp to prtablp ns to do ao, by Ipaving hh some part of tbe enormous revenue drawn 1 from us. T hay« done, and am potv if Th vc » wearied the House I only hope and trust 1 that this House will come to a wise «onclu » sion in the matter j that honorable msmbera > £ will aot deoide upon it rwhly or unthought

folly; and that they will not upset those rights which they were pledged to keep in tact under the Consticutioa of the colony.

THE EV*N!K6 i&AS, TTjySDAY, OCTOB^K 13; 1874.



Is * I I pRAND SHOW 07 SPRING AND SUMMER DRESS GOODS AND GE E iAL DRAPERY AT A. LINABURY & CO.'S THIS DAT. i ! I I : Pabticttla.es n Future adv eetiß ement. i i i i ■■.■.'■ i ■ •"• ■ i > » > i f



■ "■■/:' ■■■; ■■ '■':', : _■ ]^ 0 0 X 0(J / - SAMUEL COOMBESS NEW ADVERTISE™ SAMUEL COOMBESf CITY CLOTHING QUEEN-STREET. .