conversations: human
conversations:  Arena Exhibition:  Cay  vs.  W.O.E    
   Map:  
   Spoiler 
  
   
   
  
   XP Award:  0 XP
   GP Award:  0 GP
  
   Weird Old Elf  - Koury
   Cay  - Sallera
  
   All Combatants, please roll initiative and declare final purchases, if any 
  
  No purchases.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Init:  (1d20)[ 13 ] 
  
  No purchases.
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Oh yeah.
  
    Init  - (1d20-1)[ 17 ] 
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  OK.
  
  Spells Prepped:
   
   Spoiler 
  Standard Spells Prepped:
  
  0 - Resistance (Abj)
  0 - Daze (Ench)
  0 - Acid Splash (Conj)
  0 - Acid Splash (Conj) [Domain]
  0 - Acid Splash (Conj) [Specialist]
  1 - Hail of Stone, Sanctum (Conj)
  1 - Hail of Stone, Sanctum (Conj) [Bonus]
  1 - Expeditious Retreat (Trans) [Bonus]
  1 - Mage Armor (Conj) [Domain]
  1 - Hail of Stone, Sanctum (Conj) [Specialist]
  2 - Invisibility (Illusion) [Precocious Apprentice]
  
  Sanctum Location: W/X 13-14 intersection, 20 ft diameter
   
  
  
  Start in Y 13.
  
  I've never used Precocious Apprentice before. Caster level check vs DC 8, correct?
  
    CL Check  - (1d20+1)[ 11 ] 
  
  If successful, I turn invisible.
  
   
   Spoiler 
  Stay where I stand
   
  
  
  If not, move to W11
  
  End
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Cay, Round 1 
  
  Starting in A13, horse is in A14/B15, riding dog is in B13.
  
  Free: Handle dog to Seek south, barking when it pinpoints something:  (1d20+8)[ 28 ] 
  Move: Handle horse to Seek south:  (1d20+4)[ 9 ] 
  Standard: Start casting a spell, Spellcraft DC16: 
   Spoiler 
  Summon Nature's Ally I.
   
  
  
  Ok, so horse doesn't move, dog double moves to S14.
  
  Stats: 
   Spoiler 
  HP 12/12, AC9 (9, 9)
  Spells: Detect Magic, Guidance, Cure Minor Wounds, SNAI,  SNAI 
  Dog HP 13/13, AC16 (12, 14)
  Horse HP 19/19, AC13 (10, 12)
   
  
  Done.
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Spellcraft  - (1d20+10)[ 12 ] 
   W.O.E Round 2 
   
   Spoiler 
  Cast Spell: Mage Armor
   
  
  
  Since this is an exhibition, I'll take the opportunity to ask. I cast a spell this round. How do we normally go about whether or not you get a listen check to know that? And about your animals, how does seek work? Are they rolling listen or something?
  
  End turn, by the way.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  It's just an ordinary listen check against DC0 (+ distance mod).  I forgot to roll them, but I'll start doing that.  The animals are basically doing their best to find you, using listen first, then scent if you're within 30ft.  I'll do listen checks first...
  Cay:  (1d20+6)[ 19 ] 
  Dog:  (1d20+5)[ 24 ] 
  Horse:  (1d20+4)[ 14 ] 
  Horse isn't currently seeking, since I failed my Handle, but does the dog smell you? (i.e. are you within 30ft of it?)  Or did it smell you at any point of your movement?
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Dog catches a whiff as its movement ends in S14.
  
  What does success on the listen indicate? You hear words coming from the south?
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Guess I probably don't need those listen checks, then.  Dog will take a move action to note the direction of the scent, then travel in that direction until it pinpoints you (within 5ft), where it will stop and start barking as per its orders.  Where does it end up?
  
  Edit: Beating the DC by less than 10 is south, southeast, east, northeast, etc.  Beating it by more than 10 is south, south-southeast, southeast, east-southeast, etc.  Beating it by 20 pinpoints.  Which brings up a good point... if the dog pinpointed, it doesn't need the move action to detect the direction of the scent.
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  As I am exactly 30 ft away, he rolled 24 vs DC 3 and pinpoints me in Y13
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Cay, Round 2 
  
  Standard: Finish casting spell (Sudden Extended SNAI) for a small Earth Elemental, which appears in G13 and double moves to N11.
  Free: Handle dog to Attack:  (1d20+8)[ 22 ] 
  Presuming that succeeds, dog will move to X13 and bite at you.
  Concealment:  (1d2)[ 2 ]  - miss on 1
  Attack:  (1d20+3)[ 19 ] 
  Damage:  (1d6+3)[ 4 ] 
  Trip, if hit:  (1d20+2)[ 20 ] 
  Move: Mount horse.
  
  Reactive listen checks for your turn:
  Cay:  (1d20+6)[ 25 ] 
  Dog:  (1d20+5)[ 12 ] 
  Horse:  (1d20+4)[ 15 ] 
  
  Stats: 
   Spoiler 
  HP 12/12, AC9 (9, 9)
  Spells (forgot the Conj limitation last round): CMW, CMW, CMW, SNAI,  SNAI 
  Dog HP 13/13, AC16 (12, 14)
  Horse HP 19/19, AC13 (10, 12)
   
  
  Done.
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Your dog almost killed me. And geez, this arena is being flooded with opponents.
  
  OK, I cast another spell, still next to the dog. Do I avoid the AoO because I'm invisible? I hope so, but I do it regardless.
  
   
   Spoiler 
  Spell is Expeditious Retreat. Move to T3
   
  
  
  If I'm alive and whatnot, end turn. Your dog knows I ran away to the west. I'm out of his scent range though.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Did you remember the trip from the dog?
  
  Edit: You're correct about there being no AoO's, either way.
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Gah, no I missed that. I'm fairly certain I can't beat that roll.
  
  So, new actions I guess:
  
   
   Spoiler 
   Stand from prone. 5 ft step NW. Cast Expeditious Retreat.
   
  
  
  Um, so your dog knows I'm to his west. He hears me cast a spell.
  
  DC 20 to pinpoint 
   Spoiler 
  X12
   
  
  
  K, I think that is good.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  I'll assume from the fact that you cast something that that was only a 5ft step, so presumably you're still within 5ft of the dog for pinpoint by scent?
  
   Cay, Round 3 
  
  Dog continues attacking.
  Conceal:  (1d2)[ 2 ]  - miss on 1
  Attack:  (1d20+3)[ 17 ] 
  Damage:  (1d6+3)[ 4 ] 
  Trip, if hit:  (1d20+2)[ 21 ] 
  Elemental double moves to V12.
  Horse moves to L15/M16.
  Cay starts casting a spell, DC16:  
   Spoiler 
  SNAI.
   
  
  
  Stats: 
   Spoiler 
  HP 12/12, AC9 (9, 9)
  Spells (forgot the Conj limitation last round): CMW, CMW, CMW,  SNAI ,  SNAI 
  Dog HP 13/13, AC16 (12, 14)
  Horse HP 19/19, AC13 (10, 12)
  Elemental HP 15/15, AC17 (10, 17)
   
  
  Done.
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Done indeed. Dog kills me.
  
  Lets see here... Rewind to my last round and change spell to attack dog? Whats that things HP? I'll try it anyway (you still win, I just want to kill something 😁).
  
  No need to spoiler anything. Stand from prone, 5 ft step away, cast Hail of Stone at your dog. No save.
  
    Damage  - (4d4)[ 11 ] 
  
  Become visible in same square as before.
  
  End fake turn.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Dog's got 13hp. 😛  If it makes you feel any better, I was in the middle of summoning a second earth elemental...
  
  Care for a rematch?  Perhaps the dog will be rather less lucky this time.
  
  Init:  (1d20)[ 10 ] 
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Init  - (1d20-1)[ 10 ] 
  
  Same Prep as before.
  
  EDIT: You're up as your dex is higher.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Same start as before, except I'll begin mounted.
  
   Cay, Round 1 
  
  Free: Handle dog to Attack:  (1d20+8)[ 24 ] 
  Unless I nat-1 the check, dog double moves to T13.
  Horse moves to L15/M16.
  Full-round: Begin casting spell, DC16: 
   Spoiler 
  Sudden Extended SNAI
   
  
  
  Stats: 
   Spoiler 
  HP 12/12, AC9 (9, 9)
  Spells: CMW, CMW, CMW, SNAI,  SNAI 
  Dog HP 13/13, AC16 (12, 14)
  Horse HP 19/19, AC13 (10, 12)
   
  
  Done.
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Oh no, not that dog again.
  
  Cast Spell
  
    Damage  - (4d4)[ 12 ] 
  
  No, you die when I chuck a spell at you!
  
  Move to X4
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Shouldn't that be X5?  Either way...
  
   Cay, Round 2 
  
  Angry dog charges you.
  Attack:  (1d20+5)[ 25 ] 
  Damage:  (1d6+3)[ 6 ] 
  Trip, on hit:  (1d20+2)[ 6 ] 
  Earth elemental appears in Q13 and double moves to V8.
  Horse moves to U14/V15.
  Cay starts casting another spell.
  
  Stats: 
   Spoiler 
  HP 12/12, AC9 (9, 9)
  Spells: CMW, CMW, CMW,  SNAI ,  SNAI 
  Dog HP 13/13, AC16 (12, 14)
  Horse HP 19/19, AC13 (10, 12)
  Elemental HP 15/15, AC17 (10, 17)
   
  
  Done.
  
  ...guess the crit confirm's not really necessary.  Still, might I suggest you incorporate some form of defense other than Invisibility?
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  How did the dog charge? Is it just being within whatever range and being able to draw a straight line. How do you determine what squares he used?
  
  And yes, X5 🙂
  
  As for defense, ~32 damage is usually enough to kill people. If I ready an action to cast, then cast on my turn, then invis/exped for a bit, then ready/cast again, most things are dead. Trick is surviving that one round after my second cast.
  
  Regardless, suggestions how? Hell, I spent my gold for 3 HP because 2 HP just seemed dumb.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  I believe you draw a line between the centers of the two squares to see what path it takes; if  that  line goes through cover, you can't charge, but otherwise it just has to be in range of a double move.  (Edit: Ok, so it's actually if  any  line between the two does, so he couldn't have charged, but all that means is that he'd have moved and attacked instead, so no difference.)
  
  Anyway, I'd suggest perhaps swapping Conjuration domain for a specialization and immediate magic.  5hp isn't necessarily going to be better than 2, but popping out of the way of up to 6 attacks is probably worth a lot more.   And since your opponents can ready actions too... you're not likely to even get two spells off otherwise, let alone having them just leave you alone while you cast invis and run off again.
  
  Incidentally, how  did  you get CL4 on the Hail of Stone?
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Spell Thematics, Spellgifted, Conjuration Domain?
  
  As an aside, Koury, you can get CL 5+ spells without taking a hit to physical stats if you want to take a little dip in some loredrake cheese.
conversations: Tanaric:
conversations: human
conversations:  Conjuration Domain doesn't have Hail of Stone, though.
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  I'm confused as to why my Conjuration Domain precludes me from anything? As written now I have both Conjuration Domain (granting me one prechosen spell per spell level, cast at +1 caster level) AND I'm specialized in Conjuration (and have two spell schools banned as normal). Is this not allowed for some reason? I asked in the waiting room and got no reply.
  
  As I see it, my caster level for spells breaks down like this:
  
  Hail of Stone: 4 (Level 1 + Sanctum + Spellgifted + Spell Thematics)
  Mage Armor: 4 (Level 1 + Sanctum + Spellgifted + Domain)
  Other Conjuration Spells: 3 (Level 1 + Spellgifted + Sanctum)
  All other spells: 1 (Level 1 - Spellgifted)
  
  Technically Acid Splash is higher but that affects nothing but range.
  
  As for my spells, its simply patience in most fights. Wait until they enter LoE, that triggers my 1st spell. My turn, blast em again if I can drop em. If not, invis or expeditious retreat out of there. Ready action blast again. My turn, blast again if I can drop em. If not, whatever spell I didn't use before. Ready again, blast 3rd spell. Blast 4th spell. If they are still up, I'm out of spells anyway (thats 5 1sts, and my 2nd used).
  
  Flaws in this plan? Of course. Multiple targets, for one. Them going first and being too close also messes with it. If I survived long enough Fly and whatever that anti ranged spell is will help more.
  
  Like I said, I'm open to suggestions. What is that teleport thing you're talking about, for instance?
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Ah, apparently I was typing for too long.  Three  Two (I can count I promise) replys since I started.
  
  Tanaric: I made a conscious decisions to not go kobold. I now I'm a ton weaker for it, but you gotta do something different SOMETIMES, right?
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Sanctum doesn't increase caster level though, just spell level.  The teleportation is the PHBII wizard variant.  And "a domain wizard cannot also be a specialist wizard," from the description of the domain variant.
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  I think I might have confused Koury with my explanation of what Sanctum Spell did. ☹️
  
  Spell level and caster level are independent, as Sallera says. Raising one does not raise the other. A higher level spell has a higher DC, goes through things like Globe of Invulnerability easier, etc, but has a caster level equal to your normal caster level.
conversations: Tanaric:
conversations: human
conversations:  No Prohibited Schools 
  
  Unlike a specialist wizard, a domain wizard need not select any prohibited schools or domains. All wizard spells are available to her to learn. 
  
  Ack, yep. I missed that. Damn.
  
  As for Sanctum Spell, is that true? I was going with  this . Page 56 says caster level specifically. I understand that that can be wrong though and I'm afb at the moment.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Yeh, the PDF's wrong; actual text is spell level.  Anyway, I'd definitely look into swapping the (fairly useless) domain for spec, and trading your familiar for int-mod immediate action 10ft teleports per day.  And swapping Sanctum for something else, of course. 😛
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Ah, cool. I'll wait until my books are available to me to retool. They are all on my Ipod and I don't have it near me at the moment.
  
  As for what to drop Sanctum for... Maybe switch out my Invis for some high damage spell, get my caster level up on it and Sudden Max it? Take true strike so it doesn't miss or something. I don't know. I'll figure it out later.
  
  I think someone else in the waiting room said something about Sanctum being caster level also. But I believe Chiles quoted material says spell level. Someone should probably clarify in there.
conversations: Koury: