conversations: human
conversations:  A towering figure in a dark robe enters the room where you have been milling around sizing up the competition. His face is completely obscured by his hood. He raises both hands to get your attention and speaks in a deep voice.
   Alya Montane, Dresil 
  With that he brings his hands down and the two of you find yourself transported to the  arena 
  
  OOC:
  You've got time for one swift action and one standard action before you get transported in case you need to adopt a stance or activate an item.
  
  On the map, green is open terrain, yellow is difficult terrain, red/brown is the cliffs. Arena has a 60 foot ceiling.
  
  Opening post should have an initiative roll, anything you said after he called your name and what, if anything you did with the 'surprise round' before being transported. After that, start fighting in initiative order.
  
  Alya
   
   Spoiler 
  start at C19
   
  
  Dresil
   
   Spoiler 
  start at AD34
   
conversations: playswithfire:
conversations: human
conversations:  " So soon again? Very well then, I stand ready. "
  
  With that, Alya shifts into a huge cactus-like creature!
  
  OOC: Relevant information (stuff Dresil can find out):
   
   Spoiler 
  Equipment you can see:
  -Cloak
  -Boots
  -Robe
  -Crown
  -Belt
  -Necklace
  
  You may use Martial Lore to determine which stance is currently being employed.
  
  Also, Alya's creature type is Humanoid (Human) if that's relevant to Favored Enemy or such. Present form is Huge and centered at C19, so she covers D-B 18-20.
   
  
  
  Surprise Round:
   
   Spoiler 
  Standard Action: Wildshape into Sanguaro Sentinel; 15'/15' creature centered on C19.
  Swift Action: Initiate a Devotion-feat.
   
conversations: Eldariel:
conversations: human
conversations:  OOC: Oh yeah, I forgot Initiative. Duh.
  
   (1d20+11)[ 19 ] 
conversations: Eldariel:
conversations: human
conversations:  Dresil looks at the new creature.
  
   Does everyone here turn into something stupid? 
  
  Pre Battle: Ring of Invisibility goes on.
  
  Initiative:  (1d20+12)[ 17 ] 
conversations: Dresil:
conversations: human
conversations:  OOC: Why is it that the higher Initiative-bonuses people have, the lower they roll?
  
  " Not everything big is stupid! " says the beast with a booming chuckle.
  
  Prepare:
   
   Spoiler 
  Swift Action: Dual Stance Hearing the Air + Immortal Fortitude
  Free Action: Boots of Speed
  Free Action: Rage
  Free Action: Feral Trance
   
  
  
  Since Alya does not know the opponent's location, I'm going to randomize the direction she moves to:
   (1d2)[ 1 ] 
  
  If the roll lands 1:
   
   Spoiler 
  Move through A-C 19-21 through G-I 25-27 to G-I 32-34.
   
  
  
  If the roll lands 2:
   
   Spoiler 
  Move through A-C 17-19 through D-F 14-16 to G-I 14-16 to I-K 10-12 to finally G-I 6-8.
   
  
  
  OOC: I need to know your creature type for Favored Enemy (it gives me bonus to Spot vs. my Favored Enemies) and to roll Knowledge Devotion if you do show yourself.
conversations: Eldariel:
conversations: human
conversations:  OOC:Human, and I have no idea what Matrial Lore is.
  
  Dresil grins as he begins moving.
  
   But everything big is easy to see. Peekaboo! 
  
  Free Action: Draw bow.
  Move action: Move to V34 (Skirmish activated.)
  Standard action: Manyshot
  
  Rolls for attack:
   
   Spoiler 
  
  Arrow 1- (1d20+16)[ 34 ] 
  Arrow 2- (1d20+11)[ 31 ] 
  Arrow 3- (1d20+6)[ 26 ] 
  
  Damage, 1,2,3
   (1d8+10)[ 11 ] 
   (1d8+10)[ 18 ] 
   (1d8+10)[ 11 ] 
  
  Shock bonus, 1,2,3
   (1d6)[ 1 ] 
   (1d6)[ 4 ] 
   (1d6)[ 5 ] 
  
  Skirmish 1,2,3
   (4d6)[ 14 ] 
   (4d6)[ 11 ] 
   (4d6)[ 17 ] 
  
  Sneak Attack
   (8d6)[ 23 ] 
  
  Other mechanics: If Sneak Attack hits, you take a -2 to Str due to Crippling Strike. My AC has also increased by 4 for Skirmish.
  
  EDIT: Just for ease, here are the potential damage totals.
  Arrow 1: 26 damage
  Arrow 2: 33 damage if no crit, 48 if crit
  Arrow 3: 33 damage if no crit, 47 if crit
  Sneak Attack: 23 damage and 2 strength.
   
conversations: Dresil:
conversations: human
conversations:  Arrow 3 possible crit:
  
   (1d20+6)[ 25 ] 
   (2d8)[ 5 ]  Extra Arrow damage
   (2d10)[ 9 ]  Extra Shock damage
conversations: Dresil:
conversations: human
conversations:  Sorry for triple posting, but I just saw Arrow 2 possible crit as well.
  
   (1d20+11)[ 22 ]  Confirm
   (2d8)[ 7 ] 
   (2d10)[ 8 ] 
  
  Edit: Forget the skirmish and sneak attack dmg.
conversations: Dresil:
conversations: human
conversations:  OOC: All your attacks have 50% miss chance for being ranged, and 20% miss chance to boot for...well, being attacks (the latter provided that you don't have True Seeing, Blindsight or similar way to pinpoint my location without visual sight). Furthermore, none of the non-20s hit. Finally, I've got immunity to precision damage and critical hits.
conversations: Eldariel:
conversations: human
conversations:  I don't think miss chances stack. But lows hit.
  
   (1d100)[ 22 ] 
   (1d100)[ 52 ] 
conversations: Dresil:
conversations: human
conversations:  OOC: That means the second one hits and I'll take 22 points of damage and presumably -1 Str. Martial Lore is a ToB skill used to identify Tome of Battle stances and maneuvers. It's like Knowledge-skill - Int-derived Trained Only.
  
  Knowledge Devotion on you (assuming you're some kind of a Humanoid or a Monstrous Humanoid) using Collector of Stories:
   (1d20+26)[ 33 ]  - That means +4/+4
  
  Keep Boots active, initiate Searing Blade and then Bounding Assault. I move to S-U 31-33 and Pounce on you.
  
  Attacks:
   
   Spoiler 
  Knowledge Devotion (+4/+4) and Favored Enemy will be added once I find out the scores.
  
  Primary attacks:
   (1d20+38)[ 40 ]  for  (4d8+16)[ 38 ]   fire   (2d6+15)[ 21 ] 
   (1d20+38)[ 58 ]  for  (4d8+16)[ 29 ]   fire   (2d6+15)[ 24 ] 
   (1d20+33)[ 50 ]  for  (4d8+16)[ 42 ]   fire   (2d6+15)[ 24 ] 
   (1d20+28)[ 43 ]  for  (4d8+16)[ 30 ]   fire   (2d6+15)[ 21 ] 
  
  Secondary:
  Slam:  (1d20+28)[ 30 ]  for  (2d6+7)[ 12 ]   fire   (2d6+15)[ 19 ] 
  Slam:  (1d20+28)[ 36 ]  for  (2d6+7)[ 19 ]   fire   (2d6+15)[ 23 ] 
  Bite:  (1d20+28)[ 45 ]  for  (1d6+7)[ 13 ]   fire   (2d6+15)[ 25 ] 
   
  
  
  EDIT: -2 Str? Then -1 to all the rolls and the non-Fire damages.
conversations: Eldariel:
conversations: human
conversations:  Resolving Critical:
   (1d20+42)[ 52 ]  (includes Knowledge Devotion now)
conversations: Eldariel:
conversations: human
conversations:  I need concealment rolls, too. As I am invisible. The only miss was the first slam so far.
conversations: Dresil:
conversations: human
conversations:  The real result for the Slam is 34. Anyways, concealment and reroll (Blind-Fight):
  
  Primaries:
   (1d100)[ 17 ]   (1d100)[ 4 ] 
   (1d100)[ 74 ]   (1d100)[ 60 ] 
   (1d100)[ 48 ]   (1d100)[ 79 ] 
   (1d100)[ 23 ]   (1d100)[ 92 ] 
  
  Secondaries:
  Slam:  (1d100)[ 39 ]   (1d100)[ 41 ] 
  Slam:  (1d100)[ 72 ]   (1d100)[ 18 ] 
  Bite:  (1d100)[ 41 ]   (1d100)[ 12 ] 
  
  
  High succeeds. Also, I just realized that the damage bonuses are off the whack. The damage results for each attack should be as follows:
  
  1st: (4d8+16)[38] fire (2d6+15)[21] + 12 (Knowledge Devotion+Unarmed Strike Bonus+Wisdom) = 50 + 21 Fire = 71
  2nd: (4d8+16)[29] fire (2d6+15)[24] + 12 x2 = 82 + 24 Fire = 106
  3rd: (4d8+16)[42] fire (2d6+15)[24] + 12 = 54 + 24 Fire = 78
  4th: (4d8+16)[30] fire (2d6+15)[21] + 12 = 42 + 21 Fire = 63
  
  Slam: (2d6+7)[12] fire (2d6+15)[19] + 10  = 22 + 19 Fire = 41
  Slam: (2d6+7)[19] fire (2d6+15)[23] + 10 = 29 + 23 Fire = 52
  Bite: (1d6+7)[13] fire (2d6+15)[25] + 10 = 23 + 25 Fire = 48
  
  EDIT: Unarmed 2 hits, Unarmed 3 hits, Unarmed 4 hits, Slam 2 hits. Total damage is 299. 92 of that is  Fire  damage, so 207 normal. Add 4x4=16 for Human FE and one time more for Critical. That adds the total damage up to 319 and the normal damage to 227.
conversations: Eldariel:
conversations: human
conversations:  That would kill me, although how you get EIGHT attacks as a standard action I don't know.
conversations: Dresil:
conversations: human
conversations:  It was a maneuver; as a Full-round Action, I get to double move and attack, and the attack is treated as a charge for all abilities and feats. I've got Pounce, which in turn gives me a full attack at the end of a charge. Then I've got my primary Unarmed Strikes and secondary Natural Attacks - two from the form and one from Fist of the Forests Feral Trance. Since I've got 3 Natural Attacks, I qualify for Multiattack, reducing the penalties to -2 for all of the secondary attacks. Only 7 attacks total, I suppose that was a miscalculation on your part.
  
  Hmm, few questions about how things went:
   
   Spoiler 
  -You did multiple iteratives with reducing penalties, but stated Manyshot? How? Greater Manyshot would give you all the attacks at the same attack bonus, while Manyshot would give you one attack at the given penalty and only apply precision damage (such as Sneak Attack or Skirmish) once.
  -You applied Skirmish-damage to multiple arrows, but Sneak Attack only once. Why? They're nearly identical in working so if both are active, they should both apply to all attacks, or only one.
  -You didn't go visible after attack. How did you get Greater Invisibility?
  -How did you multiply Shock-damage on Crit? Shocking Burst?
   
conversations: Eldariel:
conversations: human
conversations:  Originally Posted by Eldariel 
   It was a maneuver; as a Full-round Action, I get to double move and attack, and the attack is treated as a charge for all abilities and feats. I've got Pounce, which in turn gives me a full attack at the end of a charge. Then I've got my primary Unarmed Strikes and secondary Natural Attacks - two from the form and one from Fist of the Forests Feral Trance. Since I've got 3 Natural Attacks, I qualify for Multiattack, reducing the penalties to -2 for all of the secondary attacks. Only 7 attacks total, I suppose that was a miscalculation on your part.
  
  Hmm, few questions about how things went:
   
   Spoiler 
  -You did multiple iteratives with reducing penalties, but stated Manyshot? How? Greater Manyshot would give you all the attacks at the same attack bonus, while Manyshot would give you one attack at the given penalty and only apply precision damage (such as Sneak Attack or Skirmish) once.
  -You applied Skirmish-damage to multiple arrows, but Sneak Attack only once. Why? They're nearly identical in working so if both are active, they should both apply to all attacks, or only one.
  -You didn't go visible after attack. How did you get Greater Invisibility?
  -How did you multiply Shock-damage on Crit? Shocking Burst?
   
   
   
  
  It still sounds weird to me, like one shouldn't be able to use both Unarmed attacks and Natural Attacks.
  
  Manyshot gives me the ability to shoot 3 arrows at -6 each. I also get a +2 to hit for being invisible. And I forgot a +1 for Weapon Focus.
  IIRC, Skirmish allows one to apply it to all attacks, RAW.
  Sneak Attack is only to one arrow
  Ring of Invisibility, think LotR. Frodo didn't go visible after attacking. Its always active.
  Shocking Burst
  
  Also, you know you were Flat Footed, right?
conversations: Dresil:
conversations: human
conversations:  Skirmish is precision-based damage.  As such, Manyshot restricts it to only applying once.  To apply it to multiple arrows with Manyshot you would need  Greater Manyshot .  Also, with normal Manyshot you only roll one attack and that single roll applies to all the arrows.  Even with Greater Manyshot, the attack bonuses for each arrow are all the same - arrows after the first do not get a cumulative -5 penalty.
  
  This is not LotR, this is D&amp;D.  In D&amp;D, the  Ring of Invisibility  duplicates ordinary  Invisibility , which ends when you attack.  You can restart it as a standard action as many times as you like, but attacking ends it.
conversations: Douglas:
conversations: human
conversations:  Originally Posted by Dresil 
   It still sounds weird to me, like one shouldn't be able to use both Unarmed attacks and Natural Attacks. 
   
  
  The Monk's "Unarmed Strike"-ability states Unarmed Strike is a manufactured weapon (which is, for example, why a Monk can do iteratives with it). Also, it states it can be done with any part of the body (so imagine a huge cactus kicking and tackling you while also hitting and biting). Natural Weapons state that you can use a manufactured weapon as a primary weapon. Therefore, my Unarmed Strikes are the primary weapon while the Natural Weapons are my secondary. That said, just doing Unarmed Strikes would've been plenty (oh yeah, and Wildshape states you don't lose attacks derived off class, so I retain the ability).
  
  
   
   Originally Posted by Dresil 
   Manyshot gives me the ability to shoot 3 arrows at -6 each. I also get a +2 to hit for being invisible. And I forgot a +1 for Weapon Focus.
  IIRC, Skirmish allows one to apply it to all attacks, RAW.
  Sneak Attack is only to one arrow 
   
  
   Manyshot 
  "As a standard action, you may fire two arrows at a single opponent within 30 feet. Both arrows  use the same attack roll  (with a -4 penalty) to determine success and deal damage normally (but see Special).
  
  For every five points of base attack bonus you have above +6, you may add one additional arrow to this attack, to a maximum of four arrows at a base attack bonus of +16. However, each arrow after the second adds a cumulative -2 penalty on the attack roll (for a total penalty of -6 for three arrows and -8 for four).
  
  Damage reduction and other resistances apply separately against each arrow fired. "
  
  You only use one attack roll; it determines the To Hit for all of the arrows. Also:
  
  "Regardless of the number of arrows you fire,  you apply precision-based damage only once . If you score a critical hit, only the first arrow fired deals critical damage; all others deal regular damage."
  
  As you can see in Complete Adventurer, Skirmish is Precision Damage (it is only applied to creatures with discernable anatomy, etc.).
  
  Maybe you're thinking of  Greater Manyshot ? It allows applying Precision Damage to each attack you make (all the attacks are made at the same penalty; your attack run would be -16/-16/-16 for example).
  
  
   
   Originally Posted by Dresil 
   Ring of Invisibility, think LotR. Frodo didn't go visible after attacking. Its always active. 
   
  
   Ring of Invisibility  requires  activation , which is a Standard Action as per:
  "Usually, a ring’s ability is activated by a command word (a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity) or it works continually."
  
  The  Invisibility -spell states that it ends when you attack. Therefore, you'd need a new Standard Action after attacking with it to regain Invisibility. It's  not  The One Ring™.
  
  
   
   Originally Posted by Dresil 
   Shocking Burst 
   
  
  Why not simply Shocking Frost? Stacking abilities is almost guaranteed to give you a better result on average than hoping for Crits, especially on a 20/x3 weapon.
  
  
   
   Originally Posted by Dresil 
   Also, you know you were Flat Footed, right? 
   
  
  My AC is so high that none of that matters. Dex is a negligible part of it.
  
  
  EDIT: Partially ninja'd.
conversations: Eldariel: