conversations: human
conversations:  Arena Tournament, Round 32:  The BAM  vs.  Cyn    
   Map:  
   Spoiler 
  
   
   
  
   XP Award:  300 XP
   GP Award:  300 GP
  
   Bayar - The BAM 
   Stupnick - Cyn 
   All Combatants, please roll initiative. 
conversations: ArenaManager:
conversations: human
conversations:  Ok, reporting in. High speed, low drag 😁 .
  
  Initiative:  (1d20+4)[ 11 ] 
  
  Yeah? Loud and clear.
  
  Sold a CLW pot and bought a scroll of SL.
  
  Sir ! Point me to the bad guys.
  
  
  ((dunno why I am quoting C&amp;C soldiers right now)
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  rolling initiative.
  
   (1d20)[ 10 ] 
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  Roger that. Deploying.
  
   The BAM - Round 1 
  
  I get deployed in B13, with 2 scrolls in each hand. I cast a spell and move to H12.
  
  Stats ( only for refs , dont get any smart ideas):
   
   Spoiler 
  HP:13/13
  AC:20  T:15  FF:16
  Buffs: Mage armor 1/600
  Spells: 5-0     3-1
  
  Familiar is somewhere on my persona.
   
  
  
  Done. Your move, general.
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  round 1
  
  starting in y13 and full running to n12
  spear in 1 hand and javelin in the other
  
  stats
   
   Spoiler 
  
  HP 18/18
  AC 11
  Location n12
   
  
  
  all you
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  ****. I forgot to mention what scrolls I have in my hands in the above spoiler. Because it is my fault, I will just make it like I dont have anything in my hands, to be fair.
  
   The BAM - Round 2 
  
  Move: draw a scroll.
  Action: Cast spell
  Free: drop used scroll
  Free: 5ft step in G11.
  
  All yours.
  
  Stats:
   
   Spoiler 
  HP:13/13
  AC:24 T:15 FF:20
  Buffs: Mage armor 2/600
           Shield 1/10
  Spells: 5-0 3-1
  
  Familiar is somewhere on my persona.
   
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  I will double move to h12
  
  stats
   
   Spoiler 
  
  HP 18/18
  AC 11
  Location n12
   
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  The BAM - Round 3 
  
  Free: 5ft step into F12
  Move: draw a scroll
  Standard: Cast a spell at you.
  Free: Speak.  Here is something I havent said in a long time. ORB OF FIRE !!! 
  
  Attack:  (1d20+5)[ 23 ] 
  Damage:  (1d8)[ 2 ] 
  
  Stats:
   
   Spoiler 
  HP:13/13
  AC:24 T:15 FF:20
  Buffs: Mage armor 3/600
  Shield 2/10
  Spells: 5-0 2-1
  
  Familiar is somewhere on my persona.
   
  
  
  Edit: wow, a 2. Well, that barely burned your moustache or something. Your turn.
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  well it hurt a little : )
  
  
  i will be throwing a spear at you. and raging
  
    attack  - (1d20+9)[ 14 ] 
    damage  - (1d8+7)[ 11 ] 
  
  Move action, draw a flask of liquid
  
  so javelin in one had flask in other
  
  stats
   
   Spoiler 
  
  HP 16/18
  Rage Hp 2/2
  AC 9
  Location n12
  Rage 1/10
  Flask is alchemist fire
   
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  you missed. Badly.
  
   The BAM - Round 4 
  
  I start casting a spell from a scroll.
   
   Spoiler 
  Casting sleep, and will target him. Will specify exactly in which squares when he ends his turn.
   
  
  
  Stats:
   
   Spoiler 
  HP:13/13
  AC:24 T:15 FF:20
  Buffs: Mage armor 4/600
  Shield 3/10
  Spells: 5-0 2-1
  
  Familiar is somewhere on my persona.
   
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  i will be throwing a flask of alchemist fire at you
  
    Ranged Touch  - (1d20+9)[ 16 ] 
    Damage  - (1d6)[ 2 ] 
  
  Remember since you are casting a spell, if i damage you, you must makea  concentration check DC 10+damage dealt
  
  Move action, draw a flask of liquid
  
  so javelin in one had flask in other
  
  stats
   
   Spoiler 
  
  HP 16/18
  Rage Hp 2/2
  AC 9
  Location n12
  Rage 2/10
  Flask is Acid
   
  
  
  what the.. why can't i roll above a 10 : p
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  And remember that it is a full round action to throw something. So you cant draw another flask.
  
  Concentration check:  (1d20+7)[ 11 ] 
  
  Will post my actions depending on this roll, but most likely will use a full round action to extinguish the flames.
  
   Edit: Tehnically, I should lose the spell, but shouldnt you use your dex modifier when throwing a splash weapon?  ****, brutal throw. So I lose a spell. Big deal...
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  The BAM - Round 5 
  
  5 FT step in F11. Full round action to attempt to extinguish the flames.
  
  Reflex save:  (1d20+4)[ 10 ] 
  
  Come on heart of the dice ! Help me escape death !
  
  Stats:
   
   Spoiler 
  HP:11/13
  AC:24 T:15 FF:20
  Buffs: Mage armor 5/600
  Shield 4/10
  Spells: 5-0 2-1
  
  Familiar is somewhere on my persona.
   
  
  
  Edit: Damn. Ah well. At least you wont be able to throw the flask at me again.So I will lose some more HP. Good thing I have a decent pool of it.
  
  
   
   Originally Posted by SRD 
   Table: Full-Round Actions
  Extinguish flames No
  Light a torch Yes
  Load a heavy or repeating crossbow Yes
  Lock or unlock weapon in locked gauntlet Yes
   Prepare to throw splash weapon Yes   
   
  
  Your turn.
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  High Ref Talic 
  
  Point of clarification.  Kyeudo has ruled that the section on preparing to throw splash weapons being full round actions applies only to improvised splash weaponry.
  
  Weaponry designed to throw needs no preparation to throw, and is thus, an attack, same as any other.  This includes daggers, darts, acid vials, inhaled poisons, tanglefoot bags, alchemist's fire, and the like.
conversations: Talic:
conversations: human
conversations:  But it says Splash weapon. How the hell does it make even sense of an improvised splash weapon? They are all improvised, just that you dont get penalties when throwing them.
  
  And that ruling can lead to some serios abuse. Like TWEMBTBAT or whatever the hell his name was. Like readying an action to throw a splash weapon at the opponent if he makes anything.
  
  I want to know one viable improvised weapon. Potions and oils would be retarded to be thrown, since they would not do anything. Not even splatter glass at the enemy.
  
  That would be like making a sleep spell's casting time a standard action. Would that be fair? NO.
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  High Ref Talic 
  
  Molotov cocktail?
  
  Regardless, that was the ruling made.  If you disagree with the ruling, you are welcome to take that up with Kyeudo.  As long as that is the ruling, however, it stands.
  
  @Bayar: 
   Spoiler 
  
  As for abuse?  There are other, far worse items to throw, than splash weapons.  What made Tembwbam effective was that he got a bonus 2d6 on sneak attacks.  Otherwise, he dealt about equal damage than a crossbow, at lower range, spread over a longer time.  Any number of tactics, including ready actions, reach weaponry, and the like, would have worked.  Abuse?  There are characters in the arena now that I would consider borderline.  Chile 2, and Aquamanny, for starters.  The one that fell drains a sonic snap, for insta lose at 30 feet.  Those are up there.  2d6 at range increment 10 over 2 rounds?  Not even close.
  
  There is text specifically stating, for the Sleep spell, that it's a full round action.  There is no such text in Alchemist's fire, or in the written text for splash weapons.  Written text is generally considered to be "primary source" over tables.  Thus, if what they say differs, written text generally takes precedence.
   
conversations: Talic:
conversations: human
conversations:  Damage for the Alchemist fire
    Damage  - (1d6)[ 4 ] 
  
  flask of acid coming your way
  
    Ranged Touch  - (1d20+9)[ 27 ] 
    Damage  - (1d6)[ 3 ] 
  
  
  Move action, draw a flask of alchemist fire
  
  so once again javelin in one hand, flask in other
  
  stats
   
   Spoiler 
  
  HP 16/18
  Rage Hp 2/2
  AC 9
  Location h12
  Rage 3/10
  Flask is Alchemist fire
   
  
  
  your go
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  That was exactly the kind of abuse I was talking about.🫤 Whatever. I would have gotten cover, but with that big fat roll, no way to avoid it.
  
   The BAM - Round 6 
  
  Double-move to C7, with my body burninating. Remembered someone having a fire resistant 5 Kobold, but cant remember where I saw that... . 4 HP. I am dicing with death here, but at least I am out of your range. No way to hit me with a flask with your 20 Speed. You could hit me with javelins/spears, but what are the odds ? 😏
  
  Your turn.
  
  
  Stats:
   
   Spoiler 
  HP:4/13
  AC:24 T:15 FF:20
  Buffs: Mage armor 6/600
  Shield 5/10
  Spells: 5-0 2-1
  
  Familiar is somewhere on my persona.
   
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  i will be moving to E10, and throwing a javelin at you.
  
    Attack  - (1d20+9)[ 16 ] 
    Damage  - (1d6+7)[ 13 ] 
  
  
  stats
   
   Spoiler 
  
  HP 16/18
  Rage Hp 2/2
  AC 9
  Location E10
  Rage 4/10
  Flask is Alchemist fire
   
  
  
  your go
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  That is a miss.
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  The BAM - Round 7 
  
  Move to D3 and draw wand.
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Move to C4 and draw a spear to replace the javelin
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  The BAM - Round 8 
  
  Move to J3.
  
  Ready an action.
   
   Spoiler 
  Attack with wand of Magic Missiles. If he enteres LOE in any way, even with cover.
   
  
  
  Stats:
   
   Spoiler 
  HP:4/13
  AC:24 T:15 FF:20
  Buffs: Mage armor 8/600
  Shield 7/10
  Spells: 5-0 2-1
  
  Familiar is somewhere on my persona.
   
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  i will be moving to F3, and throwing a spear at you.
  
    Attack  - (1d20+9)[ 20 ] 
    Damage  - (1d8+7)[ 9 ] 
  
  
  stats
   
   Spoiler 
  
  HP 16/18
  Rage Hp 2/2
  AC 9
  Location E10
  Rage 6/10
  Flask is Alchemist fire
   
  
  
  your go
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  Another miss sadly, for you.
  
  But at least it triggers my readied action.
  
  Attack with wand !
  
  Damage:  (1d4+1)[ 3 ] 
   The BAM - Round 9 
  
  Attack with wand.
  
  Damage:  (1d4+1)[ 3 ] 
  
  And will move to O1.
  
  Stats:
   
   Spoiler 
  HP:4/13
  AC:24 T:15 FF:20
  Buffs: Mage armor 9/600
  Shield 8/10
  Spells: 5-0 2-1
  
  Familiar is somewhere on my persona.
   
  
  
  Edit: You take 6 damage. And it is your turn.
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  6 damage noted.
  
  i will be moving to I1, and the flask of fire at you. during the move i will draw another flask out, this time you recognize it's another acid flask.
  
    Ranged Touch Attack  - (1d20+5)[ 22 ] 
    Damage  - (1d6)[ 5 ] 
  
  
  stats
   
   Spoiler 
  
  HP 10/18
  Rage Hp 2/2
  AC 9
  Rage 7/10
   
  
  
  
  your turn
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  Sadly, a bottle has only 10 Ft of range increment, so your move is invalid. Please redo.
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  High Ref Talic 
  
  Incorrect.  Per SRD:
  
  
   Range Increment
  
  Any attack at less than this distance is not penalized for range. However, each full range increment imposes a cumulative -2 penalty on the attack roll. A thrown weapon has a maximum range of five range increments. A projectile weapon can shoot out to ten range increments. 
  
  Cyn is attacking from 30 feet out.  That is 3 full increments, which is within the maximum for thrown weapons.  That said, throws from that distance are made at a -6 penalty to hit.
  
  Cyn has a base to hit modifier of +6 for thrown weapons.  With a -6 penalty, he should be making his D20 roll with no modifiers.
conversations: Talic:
conversations: human
conversations:  Originally Posted by Talic 
    High Ref Talic 
  
  Incorrect.  Per SRD:
  
  
  
  Cyn is attacking from 30 feet out.  That is 3 full increments, which is within the maximum for thrown weapons.  That said, throws from that distance are made at a -6 penalty to hit.
  
  Cyn has a base to hit modifier of +6 for thrown weapons.  With a -6 penalty, he should be making his D20 roll with no modifiers. 
   
  
  So, he should roll again without bonuses, right ?
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  well actually, it has a range increment of 10 ft. i threw from 30ft.. so that is 3 range increments, as you said. so that is 2 past the first one, at -2 per increment. so that would be -4 off the attack. with +9 normall to hit, i took -4 from that and that gave me the +5 that i rolled.
  
  you are only penalized for the increments beyond the normal
  
  so 0ft to 10ft no penalty
  11ft-20ft -2 to hit
  21ft-30ft -4 to hit
  31ft-40ft -6 to hit
  41ft-50ft -8 to hit
  
  those are the 5 range increments for a thrown weapon with a 10ft range.
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  High Ref Talic 
  
  
  Incorrect.
  
  Each full increment, by the technical wording, imposes the penalty.  Based on this:
  
  0 ot 9 feet - No penalty
  10-19 feet - Penalty: -2
  20-29 feet - Penalty: -4
  30-39 feet - Penalty: -6
  40-49 feet - Penalty: -8
  50 feet     - Penalty: -10
  
  
  Also, typically , when additional modifiers are found after the roll, we just apply them to the roll that was already made.  This has been pretty widely done, such as when refs apply distance penalties to listen and spot checks.
conversations: Talic:
conversations: human
conversations:  ok.. well that's close enough to what i was saying.
  
  there are 5 squares between us so that means -4 to the roll, which is what i applied.. so.. if we could resolve that and continue on... with your turn.
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  still here...my turn ?
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Count from the first square you're not in to the square your opponent is in.  30 feet distance, -6 penalty.
conversations: Talic:
conversations: human
conversations:  ok.. can we resolve it with what ever penalty you want to assign to it so we can get on with it. it was a 22 with -4, so subtract another 2 from it and you still have a 20 ranged touch attack with that damage listed...
  
  from my current calculations since you didn't take any potions, 2+4+3+5=14, which puts your at -1....
conversations: stupnick:
conversations: human
conversations:  So, did I lose?
conversations: Bayar:
conversations: human
conversations:  High Ref Talic 
   Cyn is declared the victor, getting booty and experience. 
conversations: Talic: