conversations: human
conversations:  Arena Tournament, Round 67:  Ford Prefect  vs.  Chuck E. Cheese    
   Map: 
   
   Spoiler 
   
   
  
   XP Award:  300xp
   GP Award:  300gp
  
   Ford Prefect  - Madtinker
   Chuck E. Cheese  - Schism
  
   All Combatants, please roll initiative and declare any final purchases. 
conversations: ArenaManager:
conversations: human
conversations:  Ford Prefect
  
  No purchases, init  (1d20-3)[ 5 ] 
  
  Not the fell drained shenanigans!
  
  @Refs 
   Spoiler 
  can I start a grapple as part of a charge?  Charge requires a melee attack,a nd starting a grapple is a melee touch attack, so it should be legal, yes?
   
  
  
  Doesn't it cost some gold or something to summon familiar?  Edit: Nevermind, I see it now.
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  I know, I know. It's so lame.. I feel dirty for ever putting the sheet together. 🤢
  
  Initiative:  (1d20+4)[ 15 ] 
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  Go ahead and go then, but I'll need an answer to my question before we get too far along.
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  Alright. Starting in Y-14, wondering how on earth glass can provide total concealment.
  
   Chuck "Lamer" Cheese, round 1 
  
  Free: Muse about poorly made glass.
  
  Move action: Move somewhere into total concealment. You lose sight of Chuck as he leaves X-15.
  
   
   Spoiler 
  Finish half-speed move to X-18.
  
  Hide:  (1d20+6)[ 12 ] 
  
  Reactive spot:  (1d20+3)[ 9 ] 
  
  Reactive listen:  (1d20+2)[ 13 ] 
  
  Cast a spell: 
   Spoiler 
  Mage Armor
   
  
   
  
  
  Done.
  
  Edit: Fixed spoiler tags.
  
  Stats: 
   Spoiler 
  HP: 9/9
  AC: 18 full, 14 touch, 14 ff
  Currently in: X-18
  Buffs/rounds: Mage Armor 1/600
  
  Prepared Spells
  
  0th: Fell Drained Sonic Snap**, Sonic Snap, Ghost Sound,
  
  1st: Fell Drained Magic Missile**,  Mage Armor , Shield
  
  Notes: Spells marked with a single asterisk have been prepared with Metamagic School Focus; spells marked with two asterisks have been prepared with Metamagic School Focus and Midnight Metamagic.
   
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  Well, the concealment is mutual.
   F ound  O n  R oad  D ead
  @Refs/LoS
   
   Spoiler 
  Starting with Sling in hand and loaded.  Move south from B14 to E21.
  Hide, taking penalty for moving at full speed.  (1d20+2)[ 16 ] .
  
  Refs, please see question in my first post.
  
  Ready an action  
   Spoiler 
  shoot Lamer with Sling if he begins to cast a spell or ends his turn in a space where I can shoot him.
   
  
   
  
  Stats  
   Spoiler 
  
     Ford Prefect   
  M LN Human Monk,  Level  1,  Init  -3,  HP  8/8,  Speed  40
   AC  15,  Touch  15,  Flat-footed  12,  Fort  +3,  Ref  +2,  Will  +4,  Base Attack Bonus  0
   FoB +0/+0 Unarmed Strike (-)   +2 (1d6+2, x2)
     Sling (20 bullets)   +3 (1d4+2, x2)
   FoB +1/+1 Shuriken (10)   +3 (1d2+2, x2)
   (+3 Dex, +2 Misc)
   Abilities  Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8
   Condition  None
   
  
  
  Done.  Edit was to fix the spoiler tags.  I'm retarded, I swear.
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  Chuck, round 2 
   
   Spoiler 
  Cast a spell: 
   Spoiler 
  Shield
   
  
  
  Move half-speed to X-22
  
  Hide:  (1d20+6)[ 9 ] 
  
  Reactive spot:  (1d20+3)[ 20 ] 
  
  Reactive listen:  (1d20+2)[ 3 ] 
   
  
  
  Done. LoS might be needed, depending on where you moved.
  
  Stats: 
   Spoiler 
  HP: 9/9
  AC: 22 full, 14 touch, 18 ff
  Currently in: X-22
  Buffs/rounds: Mage Armor 2/600, Shield 1/10
  
  Prepared Spells
  
  0th: Fell Drained Sonic Snap**, Sonic Snap, Ghost Sound
  
  1st: Fell Drained Magic Missile**,  Mage Armor, Shield 
  
  Notes: Spells marked with a single asterisk have been prepared with Metamagic School Focus; spells marked with two asterisks have been prepared with Metamagic School Focus and Midnight Metamagic.
   
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  LoS established, FORD in E21, Chuck in X22: continue.
conversations: Lubirio:
conversations: human
conversations:  LOS Check:
  
  Ford-
   
   Spoiler 
  
  You see ford in E21, with a loaded sling in hand.
   
  
  
  Chuck-
   
   Spoiler 
  
  You may charge to start a grapple, but doing so provokes and AoO as usual for starting a grapple.
  Need to roll a reactive spot check for you:
   (1d20+7)[ 11 ] 
  You see Chuck in X22, having just cast a spell.
   
  
  
  Good Gaming!
  -Jason
conversations: RPGAgmJAY:
conversations: human
conversations:  Ford Prefect
  
  Attack the glass in F20-21 with unarmed strike.
   (1d20+2)[ 18 ] 
   (1d6+2)[ 3 ] 
  Need to see results before I finish my action.
  
  So I didn't overcome the hardness, and it doesn't break.  I feel puny.
  
  Nevertheless, ready an action  
   Spoiler 
  move north out of LoE if Cheesy there casts a spell at me.
   
  
  
  Done
  
  Stats 
   Spoiler 
     Ford Prefect   
  M LN Human Monk,  Level  1,  Init  -3,  HP  8/8,  Speed  40
   AC  15,  Touch  15,  Flat-footed  12,  Fort  +3,  Ref  +2,  Will  +4,  Base Attack Bonus  0
  Loc E21
   FoB +0/+0 Unarmed Strike (-)   +2 (1d6+2, x2)
     Sling (20 bullets)   +3 (1d4+2, x2)
   FoB +1/+1 Shuriken (10)   +3 (1d2+2, x2)
   (+3 Dex, +2 Misc)
   Abilities  Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8
   
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  You're... taking two standard actions in a round? 🤨 Attack and ready?
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  My bad.  I readied a move action, but forgot the part where any readied action counts as a standard action.  So Ford sits tight, no valid readied action.
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  Chuck, round 3 
  
  Chuck moves into total concealment again. You lose sight of him as he leaves T-26.
  
   
   Spoiler 
  Finish move to R-26. Ready action: 
   Spoiler 
  Cast a Fell Drained Magic Missile at Ford if he enters LoE with anything less than total cover/concealment.
   
  
   
  
  
  Done.
  
  Stats: 
   Spoiler 
  HP: 9/9
  AC: 22 full, 14 touch, 18 ff
  Currently in: X-22
  Buffs/rounds: Mage Armor 3/600, Shield 2/10
  
  Prepared Spells
  
  0th: Fell Drained Sonic Snap**, Sonic Snap, Ghost Sound
  
  1st: Fell Drained Magic Missile**,  Mage Armor, Shield 
  
  Notes: Spells marked with a single asterisk have been prepared with Metamagic School Focus; spells marked with two asterisks have been prepared with Metamagic School Focus and Midnight Metamagic.
   
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  Ford 
  Ref question: 
   Spoiler 
  K, I really need to know now, can I end a charge with a grapple attempt?  A charge requires a melee attack roll, a grapple is a melee touch attack.  Legal, yes?
   
  
  
  Refs/LoS 
   Spoiler 
  Move to I21, sneakily.  Hide:  (1d20+7)[ 15 ]  and ready an action 
   Spoiler 
  shoot Cheesy McMuffin if he casts a spell at me or ends his turn within LoE and is attackable by a legal charge.
   
  
   
  
  
  Done, but I will need an answer soon.
  
  Stats 
   Spoiler 
  Ford Prefect
  M LN Human Monk, Level 1, Init -3, HP 8/8, Speed 40
  AC 15, Touch 15, Flat-footed 12, Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +4, Base Attack Bonus 0
  Loc I21
  FoB +0/+0 Unarmed Strike (-) +2 (1d6+2, x2)
  Sling (20 bullets) +3 (1d4+2, x2)
  FoB +1/+1 Shuriken (10) +3 (1d2+2, x2)
  (+3 Dex, +2 Misc)
  Abilities Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8
   
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  GM Kyeudo  
  
   
   Originally Posted by madtinker 
    Ford 
  Ref question: 
   Spoiler 
  K, I really need to know now, can I end a charge with a grapple attempt?  A charge requires a melee attack roll, a grapple is a melee touch attack.  Legal, yes?
   
   
   
  
  @madtinker
   
   Spoiler 
  
  Yes, that is legal.
   
  
  
  @Ford
   
   Spoiler 
  
  No LoS
   
  
  
  @Chuck
   
   Spoiler 
  
  No LoS
   
conversations: Kyeudo:
conversations: human
conversations:  Chuck, round 4 
   
   Spoiler 
  Move to J-26.
  
  Hide:  (1d20+1)[ 6 ]  (including -5 for full-speed)
  
  Reactive spot:  (1d20+3)[ 11 ] 
  
  Ready Action: 
   Spoiler 
  Blast the snot out of Ford if he attempts any action within LoE or enters LoE at any point.
   
  
   
  
  
  Done.
  
  Stats: 
   Spoiler 
  HP: 9/9
  AC: 22 full, 14 touch, 18 ff
  Currently in: X-22
  Buffs/rounds: Mage Armor 4/600, Shield 3/10
  
  Prepared Spells
  
  0th: Fell Drained Sonic Snap**, Sonic Snap, Ghost Sound
  
  1st: Fell Drained Magic Missile**,  Mage Armor, Shield 
  
  Notes: Spells marked with a single asterisk have been prepared with Metamagic School Focus; spells marked with two asterisks have been prepared with Metamagic School Focus and Midnight Metamagic.
   
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  Ford, assuming still no LoS
  Ref/LoS 
   Spoiler 
  Ready an action 
   Spoiler 
  Shoot Gouda there if he begins to cast a spell or ends his turn within LoE.
   
  
   
  
  
  Stats 
   Spoiler 
  Ford Prefect
  M LN Human Monk, Level 1, Init -3, HP 8/8, Speed 40
  AC 15, Touch 15, Flat-footed 12, Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +4, Base Attack Bonus 0
  Loc I21
  FoB +0/+0 Unarmed Strike (-) +2 (1d6+2, x2)
  Sling (20 bullets) +3 (1d4+2, x2)
  FoB +1/+1 Shuriken (10) +3 (1d2+2, x2)
  (+3 Dex, +2 Misc)
  Abilities Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8
   
  
  
  Done, and thanks Kyeudo
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  One sec here.
  
  Ford: 
   Spoiler 
  Before you take your turn, you see Chuck move to J26 and ready an action.  This triggers your readied action, do you take it?
   
  
  
  Chuck: 
   Spoiler 
  No LoS.
   
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Thank you Sallera.  Yes, I take my readied action, to shoot the scoundrel
  Sling attack  (1d20+3)[ 21 ] 
  Damage (1d4+2)[ 5 ] 
  
  Then take my regular turn, no?
  
  Charge to I25 and make a melee touch attack with unarmed strike to initiate a grapple.  No AoO, I have improved grapple.  If I hit, that's a grab.
   (1d20+4)[ 19 ] 
  Opposed grapple checks!
   (1d20+6)[ 21 ] 
  Deal damage as with unarmed strike:  (1d6+2)[ 8 ] 
  Assuming success, move into target's space (J26)
  
  Done
  
  Stats 
   Spoiler 
  Ford Prefect
  M LN Human Monk, Level 1, Init -3, HP 8/8, Speed 40
  AC 15, Touch 15, Flat-footed 12, Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +4, Base Attack Bonus 0
  Loc I21
  FoB +0/+0 Unarmed Strike (-) +2 (1d6+2, x2)
  Sling (20 bullets) +3 (1d4+2, x2)
  FoB +1/+1 Shuriken (10) +3 (1d2+2, x2)
  (+3 Dex, +2 Misc)
  Abilities Str 14, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 8
   
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  Uh-uh. No no noooo. My readied action goes off at some point here, just trying to figure out where.
  
  @refs: 
   Spoiler 
  Wouldn't my readied action trigger when he attacked me with his sling?
   
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  Chuck's readied action goes off after yours does.
  
  Edit: In other words, yes.  Or to be more precise, as he catches you flat-footed with the attack, I believe it happens after the attack.
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Alright. Fell Drained Magic Missile to the face, then.  (1d4+1)[ 2 ]  damage and a negative level.
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  So there is a legitimate way to get Fell Drained MM?  Interesting.
conversations: hustlertwo:
conversations: human
conversations:  Yeah. The only reason I made it was because I realized it could be done. It's so cheesy... my shame extends to depths best left unexplored.
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  Is it possible to do Fell Drained Kelgore's Fire Bolt?  Because it seems like that would be better, given how MM is canceled out by Shield.
conversations: hustlertwo:
conversations: human
conversations:  So you'ld better explain how it's legal then, I am curious and robbed.😡
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  I'm using Incarnum feats, channeling Essentia to remove the cost of the Fell Drain. MOD was trying to use  Precocious Apprentice  Versatile Spellcaster to gain a 2nd level slot.
  
  Edit: If an opponent has Shield, you can bet your life I'll be using KFB instead of MM, Hustler. 😛
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  This spell seems to dog you, doesn't it Mad?  First your opponent's use of it negates your round 59 win, and now this.
conversations: hustlertwo:
conversations: human
conversations:  More specific would be appreciated.
  
  Although, losing this way  did  save me from having to grapple a naked man.
  
  And legal but cheap is still legal.  (If indeed it is legal).
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  Midnight Metamagic uses Essentia instead of spell level adjustment for metamagic. How much more specific can it be?
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  Okay, I'll take your word for it.  Buuuut...
  I hope you don't mind, but since there is no way to avoid death from FDMM, I looked at your readied action (and only your readied action) from immediatly before you blasted me.  As far as I know "blast the snot" is not a legal spell, and readied actions have been overturned for not naming the specific spell to be cast.  😛  I argue that your readied action was not valid, and you must now succede an opposed grapple check or die.
  
  If it was improper of me to check your readied action in such a manner, I will concede the match without further argument.
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  ...Right. Now go check my other readied actions where I do name the spell, and realize that they're all the same. Humorous readied actions are an arena tradition. *facepalm*
  
  Edit: And what else would I "blast the snot out of you" with, exactly? It's not like I prepared another offensive spell. 🫤
  
  Editedit: There are several feats that can negate/ignore/save vs a negative level, by the way.
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  Well, cheesy is cheesy, and this one technicality is all I got, so... ask a ref?
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  *facepalm* Fine.
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  Saying that it wasn't a specific spell when it was previously named in the same readied actions is rather akin to claiming that when we were slinging 'stones' at each other that we should have done the damage for improvised sling ammo because we didn't say 'bullets'.
conversations: Sallera:
conversations: human
conversations:  Come to think on it, I might have won if we were using improvised weapons in Rusty v Quork. 😉
  
  Edit: But yes, it really is taking lawyering to a whole new level, here.
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  On the one hand, it's a pretty cheap tactic.  On the other, so is Fell Drain.  I highly doubt this works though, but I won't call it until there's a ruling.
conversations: hustlertwo:
conversations: human
conversations:  GM Kyeudo  
  
  While it would have been better for him to mention the Fell Drained Magic Missile in his "blast the snot out of him", I don't believe that there is enough reason to invalidate his readied action. After all, what else would he have cast?
  
  As such:
   Chuck E. Cheese is the Winner! 
conversations: Kyeudo:
conversations: human
conversations:  Thanks, Kyeudo.
  
  No hard feelings, mad. FDMM really is cheap enough to warrant pulling that kind of trick. In the future I'll just make sure to clearer in my readied actions, just in case.
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  One more question:  does fell drain work like a metamagic in that it increases casting time or anything, making it more than a standard action and thus unreadiable?  If not, thanks for the thorough nasal cleansing, and I'll see you in the finals.
conversations: madtinker:
conversations: human
conversations:  Only sorcerers have casting time increased by using metamagic, and metamagic specialists don't even have that 3 times a day. Even if Chuck was one of those - which he isn't - Midnight Metamagic specifically states that the metamagic it takes the place of does not increase casting time.
conversations: Schism:
conversations: human
conversations:  Good enough for me.  See you in the finals.
conversations: madtinker: