conversations: human
conversations:  Map: 
   Spoiler 
   {table=head] |A|B|C|D|E|F|G|H|I|J|K|L 
   1 ||||||||||||
   2 |
   3 ||| C | C ||||| C | C ||
   4 ||| C | C ||||| C | C ||
   5 ||||||||||||
   6 |
   7 |
   8 ||||||||||||
   9 ||| C | C ||||| C | C ||
   10 ||| C | C | C | C | C | C | C | C ||
   11 |||||||||| C 
   12 |||||||||| C ||
   13 |
   14 ||| C |
   15 ||| C |||||||||
   16 ||| C | C | C | C | C | C | C | C ||
   17 ||| C | C ||||| C | C ||
   18 |
   19 ||||||||||||
   20 |
   21 ||||||||||||
   22 ||| C | C ||||| C | C ||
   23 ||| C | C ||||| C | C ||
   24 |
   25 |||||||||||[/table] 
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  Initiative  - (1d20+7)[ 12 ] 
  
  Starting point: Straight line from Boci's position, distance of (2*speed + weapon reach) away. (AKA, chargable)
  
  I have a rod in my hand, and my headband, cloak, amulet and ring are visible to you.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Initative   (1d20+8)[ 27 ] 
  
    Starting point: charging range.
  
    I have a spiked chain in my hands, 2 daggers hanging from my belt, an amulet, a cape, a belt, a pair of gloves, a ring and numerous potion bottles hanging from my belt.
  
    For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
   Prevenoming both daggers and spoked chain  (1d20)[ 14 ]  (1d20)[ 5 ]  (1d20)[ 6 ] 
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  I charge forwards and swing my chain at the mage. [roll=Attack]1d20+24[/roll]   Damage:   (1d4+7)[ 8 ]   (Sorry, my mistake.)
  
    Action Breakdown:
    Full round action: Charge with spiked chain.
  
    States:
     
   Spoiler 
  HP: 102/102,
    AC: 20 (FF: 16, T: 14)
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  Respoting since I messed up in previous one:
  
    Attack  - (1d20+24)[ 25 ] 
  
  
    For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
   Do I poison myself now? Also, is there a spot DC for Koury to notice that my spike chain has been envenomed?
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  Stupid me, this is getting tiresome.
  
    For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
     Ref sace DC: 15  - (1d20+11)[ 26 ]  - So, at least I'm not poisoned, but the spiked chain still has poison on it right, or not?.
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  Defensivly cast a spell.
  
    Concentration  - (1d20+20)[ 25 ]  vs DC 19
  
  If I succeed, I turn invisible.
  
  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  Greater Invis. Assuming I succeed, I then move 30 ft away
   
  
  
  End turn.
  
  Also, lets establish where we were to begin, so refs can adjucate anything that may need it.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  How about you are at B18 and I was at B20?
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  I scan the enviorment for signs of my foe.   spot check  - (1d20+9)[ 27 ]  With that check I can tell which square you are in. Horay for vague rules.
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  To pinpoint an active, invisible character, you need a DC 40 Spot.
  
  You do, however, notice that I am there.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Originally Posted by Koury 
   To pinpoint an active, invisible character, you need a DC 40 Spot.
  
  You do, however, notice that I am there. 
   
  
    Only if they do  not move according to my players handbook. If they do its just 20.
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  Originally Posted by SRD 
    {table=Head]DC | Task
  20 | Notice presence of active invisible creature
  30 | Notice presence of unmoving, living invisible creature
  40 | Notice presence of inanimate invisible object
  40 | Notice presence of unmoving, unliving invisible creature
  80 | Defeat illusion[/table]
  
  A character can use Spot to notice the presence of an invisible creature. The relevant DCs are reprinted here. If the character beats the DC by 20 or more, he or she can pinpoint the location of the invisible creature, though it still maintains total concealment from the character (50% miss chance). 
   
  
   Link . I'm certainly an active invisible creature.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Originally Posted by Koury 
    Link . I'm certainly an active invisible creature. 
   
  
    This is an interesting contradiction we've found. Does the Glossary of the Player's Handbook trump SRD? Do you have a PH handy? (Sorry to make a big deal ojut of this but it is pretty relevant to the fight).
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  You are well within your rights to try and get this resolved. And PHB trumps SRD. However:
  
  
   
   Originally Posted by PHB, pg 83 
   A Spot check result higher than 20 generally lets you become aware of an invisible creature near you, though you can’t actually see it. 
   
  
  I'm not seeing what you are seeing.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  It is in the glossary, the last paragraph for the "invisible" entry. Bottom of page 309, running over into 310.
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  Originally Posted by PHB Glossery, invisible 
   invisible: Visually undetectable. An invisible creature gains a +2
  bonus on attack rolls against sighted opponents, and ignores its
  opponents’ Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). (Invisibility has no effect
  against blinded or otherwise nonsighted creatures.) An invisible
  creature’s location cannot be pinpointed by visual means. It has total
  concealment; even if an attacker correctly guesses the invisible
  creature’s location, the attacker has a 50% miss chance in combat.
  An invisible creature gains a +40 bonus on Hide checks if
  immobile, or a +20 bonus on Hide checks if moving. Locating the
  square an invisible creature occupies requires a Spot check (DC 40 if
  the creature is immobile, DC 20 if the creature moved during its last
  310
  turn), modified by appropriate factors (such as an armor check
  penalty or a penalty for movement). 
   
  
  Quoted for reference for DM.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Originally Posted by PH 
   Locating the
  square an invisible creature occupies requires a Spot check (DC 40 if
  the creature is immobile, DC 20 if the creature moved during its last
  turn). 
   
  
    That's what I was talking about. Its actually 3.36 where I am, so shall we call it a night and see if PhoenixRivers has a ruling tomorrow?
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  PR is on, last I was aware. But  either way, sleep if you're tired! 😁
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Originally Posted by Boci 
   Stupid me, this is getting tiresome.
  
    For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
   [roll0] - So, at least I'm not poisoned, but the spiked chain still has poison on it right, or not?.
   
   
   
  
  @Boci: 
   Spoiler 
  Poison persists until someone is hit.  Yes, it's still poisoned.
   
  
  
  @Boci: I'll need a listen check from you, as well.
  
  @Invisible:
  
   
   Originally Posted by Rules compendium, Invisibility 
   Spot
  An observer can notice the presence of an active invisible target within 30 feet by succeeding on a Spot check (DC = invisible creature’s Hide check +20). The observer gains a hunch that “something’s there” but can’t see it or target it accurately with an attack. An invisible creature that is holding still is very hard to notice (DC = invisible creature’s Hide check +30). An invisible inanimate object or an invisible, unliving creature holding still is nearly impossible to notice (DC 40 for an invisible object; DC = Hide check +40 for invisible creature). Treat a helpless invisible creature as an invisible inanimate object (DC 40). A Spot check that beats the DC by 20 pinpoints the invisible target’s location, but that target still benefits from total concealment. 
   
  
  Precedence places Rules Compendium above other sources for primary source rules.  Therefore, this is primary source for Invisibility and detection, superceding the glossary entry of the Player's Handbook.
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  I try to find further hints of my opponent's location.   listen check  - (1d20+3)[ 4 ]  Not seeing any I shrug and draw a potion. "Two can play at this game," I gulp the potion down and disappear.
  
  
  
    For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
    Actions:
    Move: Draw potion.
    Standard: Drink potion
    5ft step to C19.
  
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Both players:  Are you using the map in the OP?  If so, where EXACTLY did you start?
  
  In addition:
  
  @Kouri: 
   Spoiler 
  From there, I'll need to know where you moved TO after becoming invisible.
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  At the end of my charge, I was at B18 and Kouri was at B20.
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  Ended last turn at H20.
  
  Also: Holy crap, I forgot to mem a see invis?! 😩
  
  OK, area Dispel Magic, centered on the square I last saw him in. Quickened, through my rod.
  
    CL Check  - (1d20+10)[ 24 ] 
  
  If I dispel him, I cast Wall of Force. I'll lay out the wall once I know if I know his location or not.
   
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Wait a sec on these turns.
  
  @Boci, last turn: 
   Spoiler 
  Your listen check is enough to hear Boci somewhere to the east, though you can't pinpoint it.
   
  
  
  @DM Only: 
   Spoiler 
  Dispel Check:  (1d20+10)[ 12 ]  vs DC 16 (Invis).
  
  Boci Listen check for casting:  (1d20+3)[ 7 ] 
   
  
  
  @Boci, This Turn:  
   Spoiler 
  You hear speech somewhere to the east, but cannot tell precisely where, nor can you make out precisely what is said.  It's at least 20 feet away, perhaps more.
   
  
  
  @Kouri: 
   Spoiler 
  Your Dispel does not reveal your foe.
   
  
  
  Still Kouri's turn.
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  "I see you," I cry triumphantly. 
  
    For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
   Checking to see if I can detect my oppoents presence.   spot check  - (1d20+9)[ 12 ]    listen check  - (1d20+2)[ 18 ]  Do I need a bluff check for the lie?
  
    Taking out my potion of bear's endurance (but not drinking it yet) and moving to 22 G.
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Boci: 
   Spoiler 
  Not your turn, though you can attempt that bluff.  Roll it.
   
  
  
  @DM Only: 
   Spoiler 
  Sense Motive:  (1d20)[ 1 ] 
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  Crap, I couldn't Dispel it? Well, he can't have moved far, considering drawing and drinking burned his turn up.
  
  So, let's go with... Wall of Force anyway. I last saw him in B20, so I throw up the walls enclosing A19-21, B19-21, C19-21.
  
  I get area equal to 13 10x10 squares. The wall I'm making is 45 ft long (using the existing wall on the one side), so I can make it (1300/45=~28) 25 ft high.
  
  So I do.
   
  
  
  End Turn
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Reposting:
   
  "I see you," I cry triumphantly. 
  
    For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
   Checks for spot and listen are above (12 and 18), as are my actions.
  
      bluff check  - (1d20-1)[ 1 ] 
   
  
  
    End of 3rd turn.
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  WAIT.
  
  Problem with Koury's last turn.
  
  @Koury: 
   Spoiler 
  Wall of Force is not Forcecage.  Per the spell description, it must be a flat vertical plane.
  
  In other words, it cannot bend or turn.  It must be a perfectly straight plane.
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  I see nothing saying a Wall of Force cannot bend. Flat describes an object that is smooth, or level. Its a texture thing. I can see a vague argument about needing to place it in 10x10 ft squares, but nothing in the spell says it cannot bend (though it must be vertical).
  
  The wall was continuous and unbroken when I formed it. Its surface has not been broken by any object of creature. I'm not seeing the problem.
   
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Koury: 
   Spoiler 
  And "plane" describes a 2 dimensional flat structure.  Yours, by bending, occupies a 3rd dimension.  It is no longer a plane.
  
  That is the ruling.  Wall of force must be a plane, in keeping with the spell's description.  It is not allowed to bend in any way, and the plane it forms must be vertical.  Reformat your action to be in compliance with this ruling.
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  I strongly disagree. If it couldn't bend, it would say so. It having to be two dimensional is patiently rediculous. It's impossible. It has some degree of thickness, no matter what.
  
  However, objections to your ruling notwithstanding, Glitterdust, centered on his previous location (B20). If he's in the area, DC 21.
   
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Originally Posted by Koury 
   [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  I strongly disagree. If it couldn't bend, it would say so. It having to be two dimensional is patiently rediculous. It's impossible. It has some degree of thickness, no matter what.
  
  However, objections to your ruling notwithstanding, Glitterdust, centered on his previous location (B20). If he's in the area, DC 21.
   
   
   
  
  @Koury: 
   Spoiler 
  Objection noted.  And it does say so.  It must be a plane.  Planes don't bend.  I'll resolve the Glitterdust now.
   
  
  
  There have been a few play errors, and people jumping ahead.  At the end of post 24, it was Koury's turn.  Boci attempted to take a turn in post 25 (which was invalid).
  
  The remainder of Koury's turn was in post 27, but had a technical issue.  This has now been resolved.
  
  @Boci: 
   Spoiler 
  You're still in C19, as you haven't had the turn wherein you moved, yet.  You clearly heard speech to the east, around 20 or so feet away.  You didn't quite hear it clearly enough to pinpoint, and you don't recognize exactly what it was (without a spellcraft check).  I need you to make a will save.
   
  
  
  @Koury: 
   Spoiler 
  You're in H20.
   
  
  
  @DM only: 
   Spoiler 
  Boci's Listen check:  (1d20+3)[ 18 ]  (reactive, to hear spellcasting, Glitterdust.  DC2 (0+2 for distance), DC 12 to hear clearly, DC 22 to pinpoint square.
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
    will save  - (1d20+8)[ 16 ]  BTW, I hope you don't mind the complete lack of roleplaying. I'd be fine with including flavour text with each action, but just posting the bare minimum seems more apropriate here.
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Boci: 
   Spoiler 
  Doesn't bother me.
  
  You failed the Will Save, and are  Blinded .  The last thing you saw was a Golden cloud burst out from the square you were last in (B18).
   
  
  
  @Koury:  
   Spoiler 
  Your opponent is visibly outlined in C19, within the Glitterdust cloud.
   
  
  
  Barring any further actions from Koury, it is Boci's turn.
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
    Okay then I will instead double move to G15. Can I draw a potion whilst moving, or is that only weapons?
   
  
  
    End of 3rd turn.
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Boci: 
   Spoiler 
  Only weapons.
   
  
  
  @Koury: 
   Spoiler 
  Your opponent (outlined in glitter) leaves the cloud, moving north, out of sight.  You lose LOS as he moves north out of B17.
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  Cast Fly. Move to G12, +0 ft, taking the rightside route.
  
  Map question: Can you move between columns, or are they effectivly walls?
   
  
  
  End turn.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Koury: 
   Spoiler 
  No LOS.  They are effectively walls.
   
  
  
  Boci's turn.
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  @DM Only: 
   Spoiler 
  Reactive Listen Checks:
  
  Listen check for boci for spellcasting:  (1d20+3)[ 9 ]  (DC 10: 0 base, +5 distance, +5 intervening obstacle)
  
  Listen check for boci for opponent movement:  (1d20+3)[ 4 ]  (DC 8 for north detection: 0 base, +3 distance, +5 intervening obstacle)
   
  
  
  @Boci: 
   Spoiler 
  You don't hear anything of note.
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
    Drawing but not drinking a potion of bear's endurance. Mostly just waiting for the blindness to end.   listen  - (1d20+2)[ 19 ] 
   
  
  
    End of 4th turn.
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  DM Only: 
   Spoiler 
  Boci's listen will apply to the first reactive listen required.
   
  
  
  Koury is up.
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  Move to B7 (only 50ft of my move), looking for a mass of glitter.
   
  
  
  Not done.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Koury: 
   Spoiler 
  You see an invisible creature outlined in Glitter at B15
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  Finish move in B9 (not worried about 'I'd have seen him mid move and gone somewhere else').
  
  Quickened True Strike (rod)
    Disintegrate  - (1d20+29)[ 34 ]  vs Touch AC
  
  Fort DC is 25
   
  
  
  End turn.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Boci: 
   Spoiler 
  I need a Fort save from you.
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
    fort save  - (1d20+13)[ 20 ] 
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  Boci:  Your fort save failed.
  
  Damage:  (26d6)[ 91 ] 
  
  Turn passes to Boci.
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
    Drinking potion of bear's endurance. +26 hp (37 left), move to 13F.
   
  
  
    End of 5th turn.
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Boci: 
   Spoiler 
  My apologies.  You'll also need a DC 15 Fort save for  Massive Damage .
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
    fort save  - (1d20+13)[ 28 ] .
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Boci:  
   Spoiler 
  Having passed the save, it is relevant to note that your listen check detected the sound of casting to your north, somewhere in the vicinity of 30-40 feet away.  Would this affect your movement?
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
    Since I can only move at half speed for being blinded, no it doesn't change much.
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Koury: 
   Spoiler 
  The glitterdusted figure moves east to E13, and then leaves your LOS, heading east.
   
  
  
  Koury's turn.
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  I round the corner and, assuming I am able to see him, try to dust him again.
  
  Quickened True Strike (via Rod; last charge)
    Disintegrate  - (1d20+29)[ 49 ]  vs Touch
  
  Fort DC 25
  
  And for reference, I end movement in whatever square I am in when I first see him. So I probably didn't move too far.
   
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  Well, whaddaya know.
  
    Crit Confirm  - (1d20+29)[ 31 ]  vs Touch
   
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Boci: 
   Spoiler 
  Need another Fort save from you.
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
    fort save  - (1d20+15)[ 34 ] 
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  You passed the Fort Save, Boci.
  
  Damage:  (10d6)[ 36 ] 
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
    1hp left. Drawing (move action) and activating (standard action) eversmoking bottle, taking a 5ft step to 12F.
   
conversations: Boci:
conversations: human
conversations:  @Boci: 
   Spoiler 
   You are normally subject to this , but are protected by your necklace of adaptation.
   
  
  
  @Koury: 
   Spoiler 
  You stopped at B10, last round, and shot at your foe (per your text on stopping as soon as LOS was established).  Your foe was in F13.
  
  This round, he drew something out, activated it, and smoke billows out, completely enveloping you.
  
   You are subject to this  at the start of your turn.
  
  You are entitled to a reactive listen check.
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
    Fort Save  - (1d20+12)[ 15 ]  vs DC 15
   
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
    Listen  - (1d20)[ 10 ] 
  Wasn't paying attention. 😁
   
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Originally Posted by Koury 
   [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  [roll0]
  Wasn't paying attention. 😁
   
   
   
  
  @Koury: 
   Spoiler 
  You heard movement from the general vicinity of your opponent's last known location, but you're not sure exactly where.
   
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  [DM] 
   Spoiler 
  Wall of Force, blocking off J13, J14 and J15. 15 ft wide, 85 ft high, I believe.
  
  Also, I'll hold my breath.
   
  
  
  End turn.
conversations: Koury:
conversations: human
conversations:  Boci's turn.
conversations: PhoenixRivers:
conversations: human
conversations:  For PhoenixRivers:
   
   Spoiler 
  
    3 minutes to live. Drawing, but not drinking a potion of enlarge person, moving to 12C.   listen  - (1d20+3)[ 17 ] 
   
conversations: Boci: