conversations: human
conversations:  200' cube, we start in middle of opposite sides?
  
  2 rounds of prep - no movement, but spellcasting fine.
  
  Amber is accompanied by 2 balor, 2 gelugon, and 2 vrock (part of her all-day spells)
  
   
   Spoiler 
  All day spells:  Mind Blank, Planar Tolerance, Moment of Prescience, Reduce Person.
  Ongoing effects: Invisibility, gives off no scent, Fire resist 5
   
  
  
  Initiative:  Amber:  (1d20+7)[ 10 ] 
  Balor 1:   (1d20+7)[ 22 ] 
  Balor 2:   (1d20+7)[ 11 ] 
  Gelugon 1:  (1d20+5)[ 10 ] 
  Gelugon 2:  (1d20+5)[ 22 ] 
  Vrock 1:  (1d20+2)[ 18 ] 
  Vrock 2:  (1d20+2)[ 15 ] [/spoiler]
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Let's try those initiative rolls again:
  
  Initiative: Amber:  (1d20+7)[ 16 ] 
  Balor 1:  (1d20+7)[ 15 ] 
  Balor 2:  (1d20+7)[ 12 ] 
  Gelugon 1:  (1d20+5)[ 20 ] 
  Gelugon 2:  (1d20+5)[ 25 ] 
  Vrock 1:  (1d20+2)[ 12 ] 
  Vrock 2:  (1d20+2)[ 22 ] 
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Middle of opposite sides looks good.
  
   (d20+3)[ 16 ] 
  
  All-day spells:  
   Spoiler 
  
  Personal Mind Blank
  Overland Flight
   
  
  
  2 rounds:
   
   Spoiler 
  
  Round 1 - True Metabolism [15]
  Round 1 - Quickened Schism [13]
  Round 2 - Teleport, Psionic Greater [15]
  Round 2 Schism - Touchsight [5]
  Round 2 - Quickened True Seeing, Psionic [15]
  
  PP spent: 63
  PP left: 283
   
  
  
  In the second round you see the elf disappear before your eyes and re-appear 50ft above you, somehow floating.
conversations: Niezck:
conversations: human
conversations:  Prep Rounds
  
   
   Spoiler 
  Round 1:
  Amber:  Circle of Protection from Evil
  Balor 1: Unholy Aura on all seven creatures
  Balor 2:  Unholy Aura on all seven creatures
  Gelugon 1:  Gelugon casts Fly on Amber
  Gelugon 2:  Gelugon casts Fly on itself
  Vrock1: Mirror Image
  Vrock 2: Mirror Image
  
  Round 2:
  Amber: Freedom of Movement
  Balor 1: Unholy Aura on all seven creatures
  Balor 2: Unholy Aura on all seven creatures
  Gelugon 1:  Gelugon casts Fly on itself
  Gelugon 2: Redundant Fly on Amber
  Vrock1: Heroism on Glabrezu 1
  Vrock 2: Heroism on Glabrezu 2
   
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  What kind of arrangement are your demons in, and how close to you are they?
  
  Incidently, you're first I believe.
conversations: Niezck:
conversations: human
conversations:  Round 1 actions:
  
  As I read it, you'll see Amber, a matronly old gnome, at floor level, in the midst of six fiends.
  
  Gelugon 2 flies up 40' alongside Lolindir stabs at him with his spear.  The other gelugon comes up on his other side and also spears at Lolindir.  Coming up between them, on a third side, one of the vrocks claws at the elf and releases spores at him.
  
  The air around Amber blurs faintly.
  
   
   Spoiler 
  Gelugon 2 charges up, flying.  Because of reach, he stops 10' away from Lólindir.   Attack:  (1d20+24)[ 38 ]  Damage:  (2d6+14)[ 24 ]   On a successful hit, Lólindir makes a DC 25 fortitude save or is slowed for  (1d6)[ 3 ]  rounds.
  
  Gelugon 1 does the same, positioning to flank Lólindir with Gelugon 1.  Attack:  (1d20+24)[ 42 ]  Damage:  (2d6+14)[ 18 ]   On a successful hit, Lólindir makes a DC 25 fortitude save or is slowed for  (1d6)[ 3 ]  rounds.
  
  Vrock 1:  moves up directly adjacent to Lorindir, releases spores (Lolindir automatically takes  (1d8)[ 7 ]  damage this round) and claws at Lolindir.  Attack: [/roll]1d20+17[/roll] Damage  (2d6+8)[ 11 ] 
  
  Amber casts Time Stop, getting  (1d4+1)[ 5 ]  rounds of actions.  I'll continue in another post once I know how many rounds I have.
   
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  The elf has multiple ways of seeing. Should I open the spoiler?
conversations: Niezck:
conversations: human
conversations:  I'm sorry for the delay in posting - internet connection issues.  This is one of my first forays into higher-level games, so please let me know if I'm missing things.
  
  Arbitrarily declaring Lolindir's starting position North, and Amber's South.
  
  The two balor are 10' apart on the ground.  The Gelugons end round 1 to the east and west of Lolindir.  Vrock ends adjacent to Lolindir, north and down of him.  The second Vrock is 20' away from the wall, 15' to one side of Balor 1.  At the end of her first round of action, Amber is not visible to Lolindir, but two giant spiders have appeared on the wall above him, and two smaller, but still massive, spiders, appear above and below him.  A whirling air elemental appears in the centre of the chamber.
  
  The big spiders lunge forward to bite at Lolindir, while the smaller ones try to attack with webs.  The air elemental dashes forward to smash at the elf.
  
   
   Spoiler 
  Actions during Time Stop
  
  Round 1 - Casts Summon Monstrous Ally IX (standard action) to bring in a pair of Colossal Fiendish Monstrous Spiders, onto the wall 20' above and to either east or west of Lolindir.  Move 50' towards the upper northeast corner.
  Round 2 - Casts Summon Monstrous Ally V  (standard action) to bring in a pair of Large Fiendish Monstrous Spiders, located side by side directly up and down of Lolindir.
  Round 3 -  Casts Summon Ice Beast VI (standard action) to bring in a cold version of a greater air elemental, 100' north of Lorindir's current position.   Use ring of mighty summons to maximize its hit points. Move 50' towards the upper northeast corner.
  Round 4 - Casts dimension Lock, centred on a point in space 5' north and up Lorindir.  Casts Sanctuary (Lorindir should have no trouble making the DC 20will save, but it's worth a try).  Move 50' towards the upper Northeast corner.
  Round 5 - Casts Greater Blinking. Arrive at the upper Northeast corner of the room.
   
  
  
  The two largest spiders reach out to bite at Lolindir (using smite good)
  Spider #1 attack:   (1d20+28)[ 40 ]  Damage: [roll]4de6+37[/roll]  Fort Save DC 28 or take  (2d8)[ 7 ]  strength damage.  Damage includes smite attempt.
  
  Spider #2 attack:   (1d20+28)[ 34 ]  Damage: [roll]4de6+37[/roll]  Fort Save DC 28 or take  (2d8)[ 8 ]  strength damage.  Damage includes smite attempt.
  
  The two smaller spiders try to wrap Lorindir in webs
  Spider #1 touch attack:   (1d20+6)[ 13 ] .  Escape Artist DC 13 or Break DC 17
  Spider #2 touch attack:   (1d20+6)[ 15 ] .  Escape Artist DC 13 or Break DC 17
  
  Air Elemental Construct charges to a point 10' north and 10' up of Lolindir in order to make a slam attack:
  Attack:  (1d20+25)[ 41 ]   Damage  (2d8+7)[ 9 ] [/spoiler]
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Damage for the two colossal spiders:   (4d6+37)[ 51 ]   (4d6+37)[ 52 ] 
  
  Edit:  I have no problem with you opening the spoilers, and avoiding metagame knowledge whenever you inadvertently learn something Lorindir doesn't know.
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Missed a format error from the Vrock's attack  (1d20+17)[ 22 ] 
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  I'm so confused about all of this. Can you summarise what's hitting me and for how much damage? (AC 30, Touch 13)
conversations: Niezck:
conversations: human
conversations:  Here goes.  In order it happens:
  
  Gelugon hits for 24 damage, and you make a DC 25 Fort save or are slowed for 3 rounds.
  Gelugon hits for 18 damage, and you make a DC 25 Fort save or are slowed for 3 rounds.
  Vrock does 8 damage to you with spores, and misses.
  Colossal Spider 1 does 51 damage.  You make a DC 28 fort save or take 7 points strength damage from the poison
  Colossal Spider 2 does 52 damage.  You make a DC 28 fort save or take 8 points strength damage from the poison
  Both large spiders hit you with webs.  Short of freedom effects, you are entangled.
  Elder Frost Beast Air Elemental hits you for 9 damage.
  
  Total damage: 160.
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Your rolls for spider damage didn't work btw? And incidently, how are you smiting you?
conversations: Niezck:
conversations: human
conversations:  Spider damage is fixed in the following post.
  
  For the smiting, do you mean that I accidentally put my own name in place of yours for an attack action?  Or are you asking how the spiders got the smite good ability (from the fiendish template)?
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Oh right, sorry, I thought you were trying to smite good. I just wanted to check :)
  
  Well, seems I'm dead.
conversations: Niezck:
conversations: human
conversations:  I really hope we get a chance to play together.  That's a powerful group of abilities you've pulled together for your psion!
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Could we perhaps see what would've happened should I have gone first?
conversations: Niezck:
conversations: human
conversations:  Absolutely!  I suspect it's Rocket-launcher tag, and this time you'll obliterate me.  But in fun ways.  You should probably still make your saves against the Gelugon spears, in case being slowed changes anything.
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Nah, 144 hp, 160 damage, I'm straight-out dead. Not a single chance really.
  
  Now then ... 😁
   
   Spoiler 
  
  (Schism Standard) Manifests Energy Wave (Electricity) [13]
  (Standard) Manifest Microcosm [19]
  (Free) Quickened Insanity [19]
  (Swift) Manifest Temporal Acceleration [11]
  (Temporal Acceleration) Teleport, Psionic Greater [15]
   
  
  
  OK, let's do some stuff then. A wave of electricity flies forth from the elf's outstretched hand, engulfing all below.  (13d6)[ 30 ]  DC 28 reflex for half.
  
  Then, if you're on 120hp or less you fall into a catatonic state and slowly die of starvation and dehydration. No save.
  
  Then DC 27 will save or become insane and start performing random actions every round.
  
  The air around the elf then begins to become a bit fuzzy, and he spotaneously disappears from sight before re-appearing 150ft further up, at the very top of the cube.
  
  EDIT: Bugger! Scratch all that! I forgot the basic first action of every telepath! Shatter Mind Blank.
  
  If you'll excuse my noobiness, I'd like to change to:
  Schism Shatter Mind Blank
  Quickened Energy Wave (as above)
  Microcosm (as above)
  Temporal Acceleration (as above)
  Greater Teleport (as above)
conversations: Niezck:
conversations: human
conversations:  Ho-kay!  I've got a lot to wade through.
  
  No problem with rejigging to start with shatter mind blank.  And, assuming that it's only Amber that you're going before instead of all seven of us, you still need to make fort saves vs slow.
  
  Let's start with you beating SR 25 on the mind blank (thanks to Unholy Aura), then checking your shatter against a CL check of 30 to have the mind blank go away. You'll need to break SR with any other effects as well, on any of the seven of us.  It'll save me reacting to effects that may not happen.
  
  Will save vs shatter mind blank:   (1d20+27)[ 37 ] 
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Also, my understanding that is compulsion effects are suppressed while a Protection from X effect is in place.  Kobold-Bard has indicated that that may not always be the case in his games, but I have no way to adjudicate that, so would be going with RAW.
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  I assumed this was what would have happened, had I got some insanely high initiative roll, and gone first with everything? I just wanna see if I could've killed you in one round as you did me.
  
  Electricity Wave to overcome SR/PR
  You -  (d20+21)[ 23 ] 
  V1 -  (d20+21)[ 26 ] 
  V2 -  (d20+21)[ 33 ] 
  B1 -  (d20+21)[ 37 ] 
  B2 -  (d20+21)[ 27 ] 
  G1 -  (d20+21)[ 22 ] 
  G2 -  (d20+21)[ 38 ] 
  
  The shatter fails, thus rendering you immune to the other effects. Goddamn your +27 will save! I'm basically buggered against anything with a mind blank and a good will save, it's quite depressing.
conversations: Niezck:
conversations: human
conversations:  If only there was some way of heightening Shatter Mind Blank.
  
  On the other hand, you'll be fantastic against non-casters, who are after all less likely to have Mind Blank effects up in the first place.  So, with you turning the strength of opponents against them, and me throwing up walls of meat, we'd be a pretty good combo.
  
  Do you want to rework your first round attacks to incorporate a second shatter?
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Not much point really. That high will save seriously screws up anything I could do. Shatter mind blank would have a will save of 25, so you need to roll a 1 for me to stand a chance 😛 But yeah, against melees fighters ... 😁
conversations: Niezck:
conversations: human
conversations:  If I may, gentlemen, I'd like to make a public apology. I am the author of Toliudar's class (the Summoner), and I didn't balance it with this level of play in mind. I'll actually be rebalancing it a bit. I simply felt I show apologize for the issues and for it being very very powerful.
  
  Specifically, I'll be taking a look at Calling Synergy and how it interacts with Malconvoker's Fiendish Legion ability. I hope there's no hard feelings. 😎
  
  In any case, I hope you really enjoy the class, Toliudar. I'm pleased people are using my brew. 😳
conversations: arguskos:
conversations: human
conversations:  Thanks, Argusko.  It's a fun class, and one I hope to play.
  
  To be frank, since the planar binding spells have no individual casting costs, and can happen on days when a caster can devote time and spell slots to just settling the binding in place, fiendish legion doesn't really help Planar Binding.  She could just as easily have shown up with four different creatures, bound with four different castings.  In fact it would probably have been more optimized to do so.  The called gelugons and balors were benefitting from the Augment Summoning ability, but that's about it.
  
  In fact, the only elements of the summoner class that I used in this fight were the rapid summoning and the summoned cohort - and both were fairly minor contributions to the battle.  I suspect that I'd have fared significantly worse against a utility sorcerer or high-ac melee specialist who could avoid the worst of my summoned creatures' attacks.  I just happened to benefit from this particular match-up.
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  That's what I personally feel as well. I DID bring the Malconvoker to the table when I wrote the class, but I didn't see it as a major issue. Planar Binding is... dangerously broken in general, and so I tend to be veeeery restrictive with it. In any case, I think I may take another look. Would you mind sending me your character, if that's alright? I'm still testing the Summoner and his comrades. 😉
conversations: arguskos:
conversations: human
conversations:  All the applications are public, and I'm happy to help.   Here she is .  The wand of enervation is not for use against opponents, but for future bindings of very high-charisma fiends like the balor.
conversations: Toliudar:
conversations: human
conversations:  Thankee greatly sir. 😉
conversations: arguskos: