<blockquote>
<ol>
<li>Is the helical or spiral model shown in the video real or just a theory.</li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
<p>It's sort-of real but not necessarily the way it's shown. The Earth orbits the Sun in roughly a circle, and the solar system is moving relative to the center of the galaxy in roughly a straight line (on the time scale of thousands of years and more) but those squiggles shown representing the motion of a point on the Earth are horrible!</p>
<p>The graphic makes it look like it has convex and concave points but that's only because the scale is messed up by ten thousand times!  For more on this see <a href="https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/35408/7982">this answer</a> to <em>Why is there no concavity in the orbit of the moon around the Sun?</em> A sampling:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Here's a video and a GIF from <a href="https://space.stackexchange.com/a/26588/12102">this answer</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Read more about the tools used to make this video in <a href="https://space.stackexchange.com/a/14339/12102">this answer</a>.</p>
<p><strong>GIF below:</strong> Screenshots from the YouTube video <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z52WWLE8bBo" rel="nofollow noreferrer">lagrange points animation</a>.</p>
<p>[<img src="https://i.sstatic.net/OWDie.gif" alt="Screenshots from the YouTube video lagrange points animation" /></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/55fBa.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/55fBam.jpg" alt="Bad VSauce! Naughty VSauce" /></a> <a href="https://i.sstatic.net/uVzSU.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/uVzSUm.jpg" alt="Not as Bad VSauce! Not as Naughty VSauce" /></a></p>
<p><strong>Left</strong> is messed up, however <strong>right</strong> is roughly correct. (click for full size)</p>
<hr />
<blockquote>
<ol start="2">
<li>In the model described (even if it is disproved), does the earth go in front of the sun and then back, then forth and back like it is shown on the video? I see both the sun and earth racing with each overtaking the other over and over. Am I seeing an illusion?</li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
<p>When motion is involved, it can look very different depending on what frame you are in. It's not &quot;an illusion&quot;, instead it's just that motion has to be definied <em>relative to something</em> and it looks different depending on what frame you choose.</p>
<p>Richard Feynman mentions <a href="https://disipio.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/whats-inertia-ask-feynman/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">the ball in the wagon</a>. While it's not the same scenario <em><strong>it may help us to start thinking about what &quot;moves relative to&quot; means.</strong></em></p>
<p><div class="youtube-embed"><div>
                <iframe width="640px" height="395px" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Zjm8JeDKvdc?start=0"></iframe>
            </div></div></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-02-10T07:58:44.080Z
@A.C.M.Meijer Since you are not able to post comments yet, I will quote you here for the probably case that your answer/ comments gets removed: *VSauce states that the sun is heading for the Great Attractor, in your answers to the questions of knowledge seeker you state that he sun is heading for the black hole in our galaxy. I wonder what is the case and why. See https://youtu.be/rztU-jnmcdg for a stunning animation of magnetic directions in the observable universe.*
B--rian
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T14:16:23.363Z
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my questions. I appreciate it. I have little knowledge of astronomy/physics. I saw the video by Vsauce. I was amazed. I knew that the sun moves following a path. Though, I did not know that the earth spiraled around the sun's path. I thought the planets were vertical to the sun even when the solar system moved. Can I deduce that the movement of the solar system is what causes the spiraling effect? In my mind, I am thinking that the movement of the solar system causes the 3d effect which is equal to the spiraling.
knowledgeseeker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T14:16:26.527Z
Am I right? I am working on a poetry piece. If I mention that the earth and the sun are locked in a never ending race with each taking the lead (earth moving in front of the sun path / winning) and earth actually dropping out of the race (spiraling/moving out the race and falling behind), that they would never meet, would I be correct?
knowledgeseeker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T14:21:23.690Z
@knowledgeseeker that's different than the question that you've posted but it's close enough that I can coment. The Sun and Earth can be though of as moving in spirals; they move in circles around their common center of gravity, and if you count the solar system's motion in the galaxy each of their paths are spirals. But hopefully they will continue to spiral for a long time and neither will drop out!
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T14:31:54.950Z
Thanks for the information. Is my analogy above incorrect? I want to use that as analogy for something. Though, I do not want my analogy to be faulty. I am talking from earth-sun point of view, not the entire solar system.
knowledgeseeker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T15:51:58.403Z
@knowledgeseeker Your question was quickly closed because somebody proposed you were asking something else, that you clearly weren't asking and decided not to give you enough time to reply. At this point if you would like others to have a chance to answer, it's best if you make an edit to your question and add "My question was regarding the spiraling movement of earth around the sun's path in the video." as you wrote in the comment. That will trigger the reopen process and five more votes will set things back to normal. Normally things are pretty smooth here, but once in a while this happens.
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T22:03:19.833Z
@knowledgeseeker motion is relative: from the point of view of one object moving with respect to the solar system, the sun and Earth can appear to be moving on helical paths. From another, they could be moving within a plane, each moving ahead of the other. From a rotating frame, they would appear to be spiraling around the observer. None of these are very useful for understanding the physics of the motion, for that you generally want to use a frame of reference that moves along with the system, where they move elliptical orbits around each other.
Christopher James Huff
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-06T00:30:23.947Z
@uhoh Thank you so much for all the help above and here. I appreciate it. I have edited my question title and text to be able as clear as possible. I have also added what you proposed in summary. Is there anything else I need to do to have my question reopened?
knowledgeseeker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-06T00:36:18.527Z
@knowledgeseeker I think it looks good now, just sit tight and wait. There are already three votes to reopen, it needs two more. https://i.sstatic.net/r1ZlR.png Thanks for your patience and responsiveness! Stack Exchange is a little different than other internet sites but once you get used to it it can be really fun and rewarding. There are [almost 200 SE sites to choose from](https://stackexchange.com/sites#questionsperday)!
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-05-09T05:38:06.430Z
This is a cool answer because it shows that that the Earth is going in a spyrogram around the sun due to its tandem with the moon, only the barycentre in between the moon and the earth is spiralling around the sun.
bandybabboon
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T10:03:15.277Z
2021-01-05T10:03:15.277Z
uhoh
<blockquote>
<p>Does the earth spiral around the sun's path as it is shown in the
video (exact time is 19:49) and screenshots?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The Earth does spiral around the Sun's path, but not quite as it's shown in the video.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It isn't clear if the video accounts for the <a href="https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/276958/what-angle-does-our-solar-system-make-with-the-milky-way">60 degree tilt</a> of the Solar System with respect to the galactic plane.</p>
</li>
<li><p>The sizes and distances are not to scale.  The Sun and the Earth are depicted far too large with respect to their distance from one another.</p>
</li>
<li><p>The relative motion is not to scale. The distance from one side of the spiral to the other side should be about 2 AU, or 3x10^8km.  But the Sun is moving at about 200km/s around the galaxy, or 6.3x10^9km per year.  So the distance between two consecutive spirals should be more than 20 times the distance from one side of the spiral to the other!  This can be visualized as an overextended <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slinky" rel="noreferrer">slinky</a>.</p>
</li>
</ol>
<blockquote>
<p>Is the spiraling movement caused by sun movement (on its path shown
above) where the sun is dragging the earth (and other planets)?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>No, the Sun's and the Earth's mutual gravity cause the Earth to rotate around the Sun.  The Milky Way's gravity causes our Solar System to revolve around the galactic center.  The Sun and the Earth are on the same plane and moving through the galaxy together.  The Earth would still rotate around the center of the Milky Way if the Sun magically disappeared.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Does the earth go in front of the sun then back, then fourth and back
like it is shown on the video? I see both the sun and earth racing
with each overtaking the other over and over. Is this assumption true?
In this manner, would earth, at one point in time, be closer to the
destination where the solar system is heading (I think they call the
destination Vega) than the sun?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>If you consider a plane tangent to the Sun's velocity vector, then the Earth will pass across that plane twice per year, appearing &quot;in front of&quot; and then &quot;behind&quot; the Sun.  This is simply a geometric result since the Earth and Sun share another plane. I wouldn't call any future position of the Solar System a &quot;destination&quot; without evidence the Solar System was sentient, but I am not a philosopher.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I am working on a poetry piece. If I mention that earth and sun are
locked in a never ending race with each taking the lead (earth moving
in front of the sun's path / winning) and earth actually dropping out
of the race (spiraling/moving out the race and falling behind), that
they are destined to never meet (collide), would I be correct?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>We haven't ruled out the possibility that the Sun may someday envelope the Earth: <a href="https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/38538/what-will-the-earth-being-consumed-by-the-sun-look-like">What will &quot;the Earth being consumed by the Sun&quot; look like?</a>. Also, the Earth isn't likely to leave its orbit before that time, but the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stability_of_the_Solar_System" rel="noreferrer">Solar System is chaotic on long time scales</a>. However, your poem would be consistent with current models, and we (humans) don't conclusively know how the Solar System will end.  <strong>So my two cents is that your poem doesn't contradict modern astronomy.</strong>  Besides, what's the use of a <a href="https://www.dictionary.com/browse/poetic-license" rel="noreferrer">poetic license</a> if you don't use it?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-11T05:44:39.417Z
Thank you so much for the valuable information. I appreciate it. I have a couple of questions. You don't have to answer them if it is a bother. You said that if the sun disappeared, the earth would still rotate around the galaxy. With the absence of the sun, will the earth stop revolving on its own axis? Also, is there a possible non-extinction force that would make the earth stop revolving on its own axis over time. Thanks.
knowledgeseeker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-11T17:00:12.617Z
@knowledgeseeker The Earth would continue to rotate around its own axis without the Sun due to conservation of angular momentum.  Tidal forces are causing the Earth's rotation rate to decrease, but most astronomers agree that the Earth won't cease to rotate until it ceases to exist.  Related: https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/40768/will-earth-rotate-backwards-in-the-future
Connor Garcia
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-02-10T00:23:28.790Z
@Connor Garcia: VSauce states that the sun is heading for the Great Attractor, in your answers to the questions of knowledge seeker you state that the sun is heading for the black hole in our galaxy. I wonder what is the case and why. See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rztU-jnmcdg for a stunning animation of magnetic directions in the observable universe.
A.C.M.Meijer
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-06T05:15:09.467Z
2021-01-06T05:15:09.467Z
Connor Garcia
<p>I have watched the following video (How Earth Moves by Vsauce) regarding how earth moves:</p>
<p><div class="youtube-embed"><div>
                <iframe width="640px" height="395px" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IJhgZBn-LHg?start=1189"></iframe>
            </div></div></p>
<p>I have some questions:</p>
<ol>
<li>Does the earth spiral around the sun's path as it is shown in the video (exact time is 19:49) and screenshots? Is the spiraling movement caused by sun movement (on its path shown above) where the sun is dragging the earth (and other planets).</li>
<li>Does the earth go in front of the sun then back, then fourth and back like it is shown on the video? I see both the sun and earth racing with each overtaking the other over and over. Is this assumption true? In this manner, would earth, <strong>at one point in time</strong>, be closer to the destination where the solar system is heading (I think they call the destination Vega) than the sun?</li>
<li>I am working on a poetry piece. If I mention that earth and sun are locked in a never ending race with each taking the lead (earth moving in front of the sun's path / winning) and earth actually dropping out of the race (spiraling/moving out the race and falling behind), that they are destined to never meet (collide), would I be correct?</li>
</ol>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T07:16:21.993Z
It is incorrect (It's not even a theory, it is a known falsehood).  See the other question. In the picture that happens, but this is a consequence of the choice of frame of reference, in other words it is not a physical fact, but an effect of how it is drawn.
James K
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T10:12:16.770Z
@JamesK no, there's nothing here about a vortex.OP has asked about graphics shown in a specific video; there's nothing there that addresses this, and there's nothing here about a "vortex theory" that's discussed there.
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T10:19:59.887Z
It's a straight dupe  "1.  Is the 'heliacal model correct'" is the same question as "Is the heliacal model wrong".  Heliacal model = Vortex theory, they are the same thing.
James K
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T11:52:36.417Z
@JamesK but in this case I don't see how one can be certain that by "the helical or spiral model shown in the video" the OP is for certain referring to whatever this vortex is, and not just asking if it is a theory that the Earth's trajectory is a spiral shape? Why not just ask the OP without the insta-close vote blocking all answers and requiring reopening as soon as the question is cleared up? **There's nothing in the video about a vortex! It just shows the Earth moving in a spral.**
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T14:01:38.000Z
@uhoh I appreciate your interest in the question, but you're emphasizing a distinction which the two video authors ignored.
Mike G
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T14:27:08.807Z
@JamesK Thanks for the comments. I just started reading them a few minutes, ago. My knowledge of physics is very limited. My question was regarding the spiraling movement of earth around the sun's path in the video. I posted some comments on uhoh answer to clear things up.
knowledgeseeker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T16:00:56.283Z
@MikeG this [comment](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/40726/can-the-earth-move-in-front-of-the-sun-in-a-helical-model#comment83022_40726) indicates that all this vortex stuff is off-base. The video shows spiral motion, there is in fact spiral motion, and the OP asked if there was spiral motion. All we had to do is give them a chance to reply to a vortex query. Now it will take a while to reopen. Had simply a comment been left asking about the vortex without the accompanying close votes, all this could have been avoided.
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-05T16:15:11.107Z
Hi, knowledgeseeker, and welcome to Astronomy Stack Exchange. We prefer that askers edit their initial posts rather than asking them again, for the sake of clarity. I've deleted the second version of your post but edited the salient details into this one - feel free to edit again if I've missed something or made an error.
HDE 226868
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-06T00:34:03.237Z
Thank you for all the help especially @uhoh My question was regarding the spiraling movement of earth around the sun's path in the video. I have edited my question with further details and clarifications. Sorry for any confusion.
knowledgeseeker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-06T02:28:32.047Z
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been [moved to chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/118092/discussion-on-question-by-knowledgeseeker-does-the-earth-spiral-around-the-suns).
called2voyage
<the-sun><orbit><planet><earth>
Does the earth spiral around the sun's movement/motion path?
knowledgeseeker
# Does the earth spiral around the sun's movement/motion path?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2021-01-05)

I have watched the following video (How Earth Moves by Vsauce) regarding how earth moves:

I have some questions:

1. Does the earth spiral around the sun's path as it is shown in the video (exact time is 19:49) and screenshots? Is the spiraling movement caused by sun movement (on its path shown above) where the sun is dragging the earth (and other planets).
2. Does the earth go in front of the sun then back, then fourth and back like it is shown on the video? I see both the sun and earth racing with each overtaking the other over and over. Is this assumption true? In this manner, would earth, **at one point in time**, be closer to the destination where the solar system is heading (I think they call the destination Vega) than the sun?
3. I am working on a poetry piece. If I mention that earth and sun are locked in a never ending race with each taking the lead (earth moving in front of the sun's path / winning) and earth actually dropping out of the race (spiraling/moving out the race and falling behind), that they are destined to never meet (collide), would I be correct?

**Tags:** the-sun, orbit, planet, earth
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: It is incorrect (It's not even a theory, it is a known falsehood).  See the other question. In the picture that happens, but this is a consequence of the choice of frame of reference, in other words it is not a physical fact, but an effect of how it is drawn.  
> **username_2**: @JamesK no, there's nothing here about a vortex.OP has asked about graphics shown in a specific video; there's nothing there that addresses this, and there's nothing here about a "vortex theory" that's discussed there.  
> **username_1**: It's a straight dupe  "1.  Is the 'heliacal model correct'" is the same question as "Is the heliacal model wrong".  Heliacal model = Vortex theory, they are the same thing.  
> **username_2**: @JamesK but in this case I don't see how one can be certain that by "the helical or spiral model shown in the video" the OP is for certain referring to whatever this vortex is, and not just asking if it is a theory that the Earth's trajectory is a spiral shape? Why not just ask the OP without the insta-close vote blocking all answers and requiring reopening as soon as the question is cleared up? **There's nothing in the video about a vortex! It just shows the Earth moving in a spral.**  
> **username_3**: @uhoh I appreciate your interest in the question, but you're emphasizing a distinction which the two video authors ignored.  
> **username_0**: @JamesK Thanks for the comments. I just started reading them a few minutes, ago. My knowledge of physics is very limited. My question was regarding the spiraling movement of earth around the sun's path in the video. I posted some comments on uhoh answer to clear things up.  
> **username_2**: @MikeG this [comment](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/40726/can-the-earth-move-in-front-of-the-sun-in-a-helical-model#comment83022_40726) indicates that all this vortex stuff is off-base. The video shows spiral motion, there is in fact spiral motion, and the OP asked if there was spiral motion. All we had to do is give them a chance to reply to a vortex query. Now it will take a while to reopen. Had simply a comment been left asking about the vortex without the accompanying close votes, all this could have been avoided.  
> **username_4**: Hi, knowledgeseeker, and welcome to Astronomy Stack Exchange. We prefer that askers edit their initial posts rather than asking them again, for the sake of clarity. I've deleted the second version of your post but edited the salient details into this one - feel free to edit again if I've missed something or made an error.  
> **username_0**: Thank you for all the help especially @uhoh My question was regarding the spiraling movement of earth around the sun's path in the video. I have edited my question with further details and clarifications. Sorry for any confusion.  
> **username_5**: Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been [moved to chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/118092/discussion-on-question-by-knowledgeseeker-does-the-earth-spiral-around-the-suns).  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_9 on 2021-01-06. Score: 8 | Accepted answer

> Does the earth spiral around the sun's path as it is shown in the
> video (exact time is 19:49) and screenshots?

The Earth does spiral around the Sun's path, but not quite as it's shown in the video.

1. It isn't clear if the video accounts for the [60 degree tilt](https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/276958/what-angle-does-our-solar-system-make-with-the-milky-way) of the Solar System with respect to the galactic plane.
2. The sizes and distances are not to scale. The Sun and the Earth are depicted far too large with respect to their distance from one another.
3. The relative motion is not to scale. The distance from one side of the spiral to the other side should be about 2 AU, or 3x10^8km. But the Sun is moving at about 200km/s around the galaxy, or 6.3x10^9km per year. So the distance between two consecutive spirals should be more than 20 times the distance from one side of the spiral to the other! This can be visualized as an overextended [slinky](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slinky).

> Is the spiraling movement caused by sun movement (on its path shown
> above) where the sun is dragging the earth (and other planets)?

No, the Sun's and the Earth's mutual gravity cause the Earth to rotate around the Sun. The Milky Way's gravity causes our Solar System to revolve around the galactic center. The Sun and the Earth are on the same plane and moving through the galaxy together. The Earth would still rotate around the center of the Milky Way if the Sun magically disappeared.

> Does the earth go in front of the sun then back, then fourth and back
> like it is shown on the video? I see both the sun and earth racing
> with each overtaking the other over and over. Is this assumption true?
> In this manner, would earth, at one point in time, be closer to the
> destination where the solar system is heading (I think they call the
> destination Vega) than the sun?

If you consider a plane tangent to the Sun's velocity vector, then the Earth will pass across that plane twice per year, appearing "in front of" and then "behind" the Sun. This is simply a geometric result since the Earth and Sun share another plane. I wouldn't call any future position of the Solar System a "destination" without evidence the Solar System was sentient, but I am not a philosopher.

> I am working on a poetry piece. If I mention that earth and sun are
> locked in a never ending race with each taking the lead (earth moving
> in front of the sun's path / winning) and earth actually dropping out
> of the race (spiraling/moving out the race and falling behind), that
> they are destined to never meet (collide), would I be correct?

We haven't ruled out the possibility that the Sun may someday envelope the Earth: [What will "the Earth being consumed by the Sun" look like?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/38538/what-will-the-earth-being-consumed-by-the-sun-look-like). Also, the Earth isn't likely to leave its orbit before that time, but the [Solar System is chaotic on long time scales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stability_of_the_Solar_System). However, your poem would be consistent with current models, and we (humans) don't conclusively know how the Solar System will end. **So my two cents is that your poem doesn't contradict modern astronomy.** Besides, what's the use of a [poetic license](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/poetic-license) if you don't use it?

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thank you so much for the valuable information. I appreciate it. I have a couple of questions. You don't have to answer them if it is a bother. You said that if the sun disappeared, the earth would still rotate around the galaxy. With the absence of the sun, will the earth stop revolving on its own axis? Also, is there a possible non-extinction force that would make the earth stop revolving on its own axis over time. Thanks.  
> **username_9**: @knowledgeseeker The Earth would continue to rotate around its own axis without the Sun due to conservation of angular momentum.  Tidal forces are causing the Earth's rotation rate to decrease, but most astronomers agree that the Earth won't cease to rotate until it ceases to exist.  Related: https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/40768/will-earth-rotate-backwards-in-the-future  
> **username_10**: @Connor Garcia: VSauce states that the sun is heading for the Great Attractor, in your answers to the questions of knowledge seeker you state that the sun is heading for the black hole in our galaxy. I wonder what is the case and why. See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rztU-jnmcdg for a stunning animation of magnetic directions in the observable universe.  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2021-01-05. Score: 2

> 1. Is the helical or spiral model shown in the video real or just a theory.

It's sort-of real but not necessarily the way it's shown. The Earth orbits the Sun in roughly a circle, and the solar system is moving relative to the center of the galaxy in roughly a straight line (on the time scale of thousands of years and more) but those squiggles shown representing the motion of a point on the Earth are horrible!

The graphic makes it look like it has convex and concave points but that's only because the scale is messed up by ten thousand times! For more on this see [this answer](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/35408/7982) to *Why is there no concavity in the orbit of the moon around the Sun?* A sampling:

> Here's a video and a GIF from [this answer](https://space.stackexchange.com/a/26588/12102)
>
> > Read more about the tools used to make this video in [this answer](https://space.stackexchange.com/a/14339/12102).
> >
> > **GIF below:** Screenshots from the YouTube video [lagrange points animation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z52WWLE8bBo).
> >
> > [![Screenshots from the YouTube video lagrange points animation](https://i.sstatic.net/OWDie.gif)

---

[![Bad VSauce! Naughty VSauce](https://i.sstatic.net/55fBam.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/55fBa.jpg) [![Not as Bad VSauce! Not as Naughty VSauce](https://i.sstatic.net/uVzSUm.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/uVzSU.jpg)

**Left** is messed up, however **right** is roughly correct. (click for full size)

---

> 2. In the model described (even if it is disproved), does the earth go in front of the sun and then back, then forth and back like it is shown on the video? I see both the sun and earth racing with each overtaking the other over and over. Am I seeing an illusion?

When motion is involved, it can look very different depending on what frame you are in. It's not "an illusion", instead it's just that motion has to be definied *relative to something* and it looks different depending on what frame you choose.

Richard Feynman mentions [the ball in the wagon](https://disipio.wordpress.com/2012/11/12/whats-inertia-ask-feynman/). While it's not the same scenario ***it may help us to start thinking about what "moves relative to" means.***

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my questions. I appreciate it. I have little knowledge of astronomy/physics. I saw the video by Vsauce. I was amazed. I knew that the sun moves following a path. Though, I did not know that the earth spiraled around the sun's path. I thought the planets were vertical to the sun even when the solar system moved. Can I deduce that the movement of the solar system is what causes the spiraling effect? In my mind, I am thinking that the movement of the solar system causes the 3d effect which is equal to the spiraling.  
> **username_0**: Am I right? I am working on a poetry piece. If I mention that the earth and the sun are locked in a never ending race with each taking the lead (earth moving in front of the sun path / winning) and earth actually dropping out of the race (spiraling/moving out the race and falling behind), that they would never meet, would I be correct?  
> **username_2**: @knowledgeseeker that's different than the question that you've posted but it's close enough that I can coment. The Sun and Earth can be though of as moving in spirals; they move in circles around their common center of gravity, and if you count the solar system's motion in the galaxy each of their paths are spirals. But hopefully they will continue to spiral for a long time and neither will drop out!  
> **username_0**: Thanks for the information. Is my analogy above incorrect? I want to use that as analogy for something. Though, I do not want my analogy to be faulty. I am talking from earth-sun point of view, not the entire solar system.  
> **username_2**: @knowledgeseeker Your question was quickly closed because somebody proposed you were asking something else, that you clearly weren't asking and decided not to give you enough time to reply. At this point if you would like others to have a chance to answer, it's best if you make an edit to your question and add "My question was regarding the spiraling movement of earth around the sun's path in the video." as you wrote in the comment. That will trigger the reopen process and five more votes will set things back to normal. Normally things are pretty smooth here, but once in a while this happens.  
> **username_7**: @knowledgeseeker motion is relative: from the point of view of one object moving with respect to the solar system, the sun and Earth can appear to be moving on helical paths. From another, they could be moving within a plane, each moving ahead of the other. From a rotating frame, they would appear to be spiraling around the observer. None of these are very useful for understanding the physics of the motion, for that you generally want to use a frame of reference that moves along with the system, where they move elliptical orbits around each other.  
> **username_0**: @uhoh Thank you so much for all the help above and here. I appreciate it. I have edited my question title and text to be able as clear as possible. I have also added what you proposed in summary. Is there anything else I need to do to have my question reopened?  
> **username_2**: @knowledgeseeker I think it looks good now, just sit tight and wait. There are already three votes to reopen, it needs two more. https://i.sstatic.net/r1ZlR.png Thanks for your patience and responsiveness! Stack Exchange is a little different than other internet sites but once you get used to it it can be really fun and rewarding. There are [almost 200 SE sites to choose from](https://stackexchange.com/sites#questionsperday)!  
> **username_6**: @A.C.M.Meijer Since you are not able to post comments yet, I will quote you here for the probably case that your answer/ comments gets removed: *VSauce states that the sun is heading for the Great Attractor, in your answers to the questions of knowledge seeker you state that he sun is heading for the black hole in our galaxy. I wonder what is the case and why. See https://youtu.be/rztU-jnmcdg for a stunning animation of magnetic directions in the observable universe.*  
> **username_8**: This is a cool answer because it shows that that the Earth is going in a spyrogram around the sun due to its tandem with the moon, only the barycentre in between the moon and the earth is spiralling around the sun.  

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