<p>While some of these questions might be better suited for astronomy history SE, Ill give brief answers here and end in your astronomy question.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>There have been controversies and conflicts related to telescopes/observatories developed on Mauna Kea, as described here. However, there does not seem to be controversies related to observatories on Mauna Loa, as seen here.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>There's always been controversy about telescope construction on these sites that are considered sacred by Hawaiian native peoples. See <a href="https://truthout.org/articles/mauna-kea-protests-are-part-of-a-long-fight-against-colonialism/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this</a> article, for example. And see how their resistance is <a href="https://thewire.in/the-sciences/thirty-meter-telescope-native-hawaiians-mauna-kea-astronomy-colonialism" rel="nofollow noreferrer">part</a> of a larger struggle against US colonialism. While researchers can hold great respect for the Natives and for their beliefs and wishes (calling the area a &quot;cradle of knowledge&quot; for human pre-history), this pales in comparison to the reality of the situation where construction of scientific facilities is a part of Hilo (ie non-Native permanent residents, or settlers) economic and social dominance <a href="https://shs.hal.science/halshs-03513857/document" rel="nofollow noreferrer">(Skiing, science and sovereignty: A material and political
history of the road to Hawai‘i’s Mauna Kea (1936–2020), Pascal Marichalar)</a>.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Has Mauna Loa also been a site of controversy, in terms of building astronomy observatories on its top? Or, is it not deemed as sacred by the indigenous populations?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea are <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/04/science/hawaii-thirty-meter-telescope-mauna-kea.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">within</a> a 'science preserve' that the University of Hawaii controlled as part of their lease from 1968 which they recently had to forfeit in a new law. This 'science preserve' <em>just happens</em> to encompass major sacred sites. Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa are <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Kea#Native_history" rel="nofollow noreferrer">the most sacred of the 5 summits</a> due to their roles in the Hawaiian native culture creation <a href="https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/images/other-images/a-fictive-kinship-making-modernity-ancient-hawaiians-and-the-telescopes-on-mauna-kea" rel="nofollow noreferrer">mythology</a>:
&quot;Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa are both considered to be -kupuna; the first born, and are held in high esteem.&quot;</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Basically, I am curious about the difference between scientists using the top of Mauna Kea versus Mauna Loa. Thank you.
Well you seemed to have asked a bunch of non-science questions first!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In terms of science, obviously Mauna Kea is a great location for <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Kea#Summit_observatories" rel="nofollow noreferrer">astronomy</a>: i.e., the elevation of the mountain, lack of light pollution, dry atmosphere, and minimal air disturbances. The arid conditions are important for submillimeter and infrared astronomy. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Loa#Observatories" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Mauna Loa is also great for observational science</a>, especially for geological science as it is a volcanic site and for monitoring Earth's climate. There's even a facility on Mauna Loa for CMB research.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-04T18:19:37.200Z
Thanks for your response. I definitely understand that Mauna Kea has been the site of controversy, but I do not see evidence this is the case for Mauna Loa. This remains true in the two articles you provided (from thewire.in and truthout.org): the controversy seems to only center around Mauna Kea. I have a friend who grew up in Hawaii, and they told me that scientific work on Mauna Loa (as opposed to Mauna Kea) is not really controversial among native populations, although I can't remember the reason, nor can I find the reason online. Thanks again.
festivevanilla
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-06T16:43:21.010Z
Hello, and it's my pleasure. Thanks for your questions. **the controversy seems to only center around Mauna Kea. I have a friend who grew up in Hawaii, and they told me that scientific work on Mauna Loa... is not really controversial among native populations ** I have difficulty finding sources online about this as well, but it makes sense that M.Loa would be perceived today as less controversial than M.Kea b/c there aren't really any new developments currently on M.Loa - the attention of the expansionists is on M.Kea, so it makes sense that is where the resistance will be strongest now.
Daddy Kropotkin
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-06T16:47:01.743Z
(I also added reference to the work by Pascal Marichalar which is highly informative)
Daddy Kropotkin
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-04T17:01:17.177Z
2023-09-06T16:39:55.720Z
2023-09-06T16:39:55.720Z
Daddy Kropotkin
<p>There have been controversies and conflicts related to telescopes/observatories developed on Mauna Kea, as described <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Kea_Observatories" rel="noreferrer">here</a>. However, there does not seem to be controversies related to observatories on Mauna Loa, as seen <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Loa_Observatory" rel="noreferrer">here</a>.</p>
<p>Has Mauna Loa also been a site of controversy, in terms of building astronomy observatories on its top? Or, is it not deemed as sacred by the indigenous populations?</p>
<p>Basically, I am curious about the difference between scientists using the top of Mauna Kea versus Mauna Loa. Thank you.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-06T15:58:05.987Z
Mauna Loa is one of the most active volcanoes on earth; I don't think it's a great spot for a telescope!
Darth Pseudonym
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-06T17:40:02.280Z
@DarthPseudonym Since the 80's the Mauna Loa observatory is protected by a V-shaped barrier that should divert lava in case it would flow toward it. (You can see it on satellite images). It is true that the observatory itself is built on lava flow from the 19th century.
Jean-Marie Prival
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-06T20:13:33.010Z
The MLO doesn't house any astronomical telescopes, though.  They do solar observation and atmospheric measurements.  I mean like the sun thing has SOME kind of telescopes but they're not the kind you use to look at distant galaxies or whatever.
Darth Pseudonym
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-06T23:47:08.947Z
[this answer to *How are the Extremely Large and Thirty Meter Telescopes coming along ("planned 2027")*](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/54562/7982) is relevant. There are also *political considerations* since real, live groups of people are impacted and actively resisting, so a related but non-identical question could be asked in Politics SE.
uhoh
<observational-astronomy><telescope><observatory>
Mauna Kea versus Mauna Loa: Astronomy ethical considerations
festivevanilla
# Mauna Kea versus Mauna Loa: Astronomy ethical considerations

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-09-03)

There have been controversies and conflicts related to telescopes/observatories developed on Mauna Kea, as described [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Kea_Observatories). However, there does not seem to be controversies related to observatories on Mauna Loa, as seen [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Loa_Observatory).

Has Mauna Loa also been a site of controversy, in terms of building astronomy observatories on its top? Or, is it not deemed as sacred by the indigenous populations?

Basically, I am curious about the difference between scientists using the top of Mauna Kea versus Mauna Loa. Thank you.

**Tags:** observational-astronomy, telescope, observatory
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Mauna Loa is one of the most active volcanoes on earth; I don't think it's a great spot for a telescope!  
> **username_2**: @DarthPseudonym Since the 80's the Mauna Loa observatory is protected by a V-shaped barrier that should divert lava in case it would flow toward it. (You can see it on satellite images). It is true that the observatory itself is built on lava flow from the 19th century.  
> **username_1**: The MLO doesn't house any astronomical telescopes, though.  They do solar observation and atmospheric measurements.  I mean like the sun thing has SOME kind of telescopes but they're not the kind you use to look at distant galaxies or whatever.  
> **username_3**: [this answer to *How are the Extremely Large and Thirty Meter Telescopes coming along ("planned 2027")*](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/54562/7982) is relevant. There are also *political considerations* since real, live groups of people are impacted and actively resisting, so a related but non-identical question could be asked in Politics SE.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2023-09-04. Score: 4

While some of these questions might be better suited for astronomy history SE, Ill give brief answers here and end in your astronomy question.

> There have been controversies and conflicts related to telescopes/observatories developed on Mauna Kea, as described here. However, there does not seem to be controversies related to observatories on Mauna Loa, as seen here.

There's always been controversy about telescope construction on these sites that are considered sacred by Hawaiian native peoples. See [this](https://truthout.org/articles/mauna-kea-protests-are-part-of-a-long-fight-against-colonialism/) article, for example. And see how their resistance is [part](https://thewire.in/the-sciences/thirty-meter-telescope-native-hawaiians-mauna-kea-astronomy-colonialism) of a larger struggle against US colonialism. While researchers can hold great respect for the Natives and for their beliefs and wishes (calling the area a "cradle of knowledge" for human pre-history), this pales in comparison to the reality of the situation where construction of scientific facilities is a part of Hilo (ie non-Native permanent residents, or settlers) economic and social dominance [(Skiing, science and sovereignty: A material and political
history of the road to Hawai‘i’s Mauna Kea (1936–2020), Pascal Marichalar)](https://shs.hal.science/halshs-03513857/document).

> Has Mauna Loa also been a site of controversy, in terms of building astronomy observatories on its top? Or, is it not deemed as sacred by the indigenous populations?

Mauna Loa and Mauna Kea are [within](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/04/science/hawaii-thirty-meter-telescope-mauna-kea.html) a 'science preserve' that the University of Hawaii controlled as part of their lease from 1968 which they recently had to forfeit in a new law. This 'science preserve' *just happens* to encompass major sacred sites. Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa are [the most sacred of the 5 summits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Kea#Native_history) due to their roles in the Hawaiian native culture creation [mythology](https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/images/other-images/a-fictive-kinship-making-modernity-ancient-hawaiians-and-the-telescopes-on-mauna-kea):
"Mauna Kea and Mauna Loa are both considered to be -kupuna; the first born, and are held in high esteem."

> Basically, I am curious about the difference between scientists using the top of Mauna Kea versus Mauna Loa. Thank you.
> Well you seemed to have asked a bunch of non-science questions first!

In terms of science, obviously Mauna Kea is a great location for [astronomy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Kea#Summit_observatories): i.e., the elevation of the mountain, lack of light pollution, dry atmosphere, and minimal air disturbances. The arid conditions are important for submillimeter and infrared astronomy. [Mauna Loa is also great for observational science](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Loa#Observatories), especially for geological science as it is a volcanic site and for monitoring Earth's climate. There's even a facility on Mauna Loa for CMB research.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks for your response. I definitely understand that Mauna Kea has been the site of controversy, but I do not see evidence this is the case for Mauna Loa. This remains true in the two articles you provided (from thewire.in and truthout.org): the controversy seems to only center around Mauna Kea. I have a friend who grew up in Hawaii, and they told me that scientific work on Mauna Loa (as opposed to Mauna Kea) is not really controversial among native populations, although I can't remember the reason, nor can I find the reason online. Thanks again.  
> **username_4**: Hello, and it's my pleasure. Thanks for your questions. **the controversy seems to only center around Mauna Kea. I have a friend who grew up in Hawaii, and they told me that scientific work on Mauna Loa... is not really controversial among native populations ** I have difficulty finding sources online about this as well, but it makes sense that M.Loa would be perceived today as less controversial than M.Kea b/c there aren't really any new developments currently on M.Loa - the attention of the expansionists is on M.Kea, so it makes sense that is where the resistance will be strongest now.  
> **username_4**: (I also added reference to the work by Pascal Marichalar which is highly informative)  

---

