<p><a href="https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/44223/7982">Can an entire star pass through the event horizon of a black hole unharmed?</a> is a one sentence HNQ with an amazing (to me at least) answer: for supermassive black holes larger than roughly 100 million solar masses (they can get <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_87#Supermassive_black_hole_M87*" rel="nofollow noreferrer">way bigger than that</a>) a star like our Sun can probably pass through the event horizon &quot;unharmed&quot;, or at least not tidally disrupted and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghettification" rel="nofollow noreferrer">spaghettified</a>.</p>
<p><strong><a href="https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/44226/7982">@ProfRob's answer there</a></strong> links to Suvi Gezari's April 21, 2021 preprint <a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.14580" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Tidal Disruption Events</a> which includes the interesting figure shown below, which I am trying to understand.</p>
<p><strong>Question(s):</strong></p>
<ol>
<li>Does this mean that for the conditions external to all possible triangles (above, below, left and right of the overlapping triangular areas of all start types that one wants to consider) spaghettification is not likely to happen and there is &quot;safe passage&quot; of the star through the event horizon (or the event horizon into the star), otherwise known as <strong>being eaten alive</strong> as ProfRob points obliquely as:</li>
</ol>
<blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>...suggesting indeed that more massive black holes are able to swallow stars whole.</p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<ol start="2">
<li>On the <em>left sides</em> of the triangles, this really suggest that the black hole can &quot;gracefully&quot; enter the star without tidally disrupting it? The star would continue to look like a roughly spherical star, but being eaten alive from within?</li>
</ol>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/s6N5E.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/s6N5E.png" alt="Figure 1: Allowable region for the tidal disruption of stars representative of different evolutionary states https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.14580" /></a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Figure 1: Allowable region for the tidal disruption of stars representative of different evolutionary states, a 0.6M<sub>☉</sub> carbon oxygen white dwarf (CO WD), a 0.17M<sub>☉</sub> helium white dwarf (He WD), a 1M<sub>☉</sub> main-sequence star (MS), and a 1.4M<sub>☉</sub> red giant (RG), bounded by the conditions that R<sub>p</sub> &lt; R<sub>T</sub>, R<sub>*</sub> &lt; R<sub>S</sub>, and R<sub>T</sub> &gt; R<sub>S</sub> for a TDE to be observable, as a function of black hole mass (MBH) and β is the strength of the tidal encounter (β ≡ R<sub>T</sub>/R<sub>p</sub>). Diagram inspired by Rosswog, Ramirez-Ruiz &amp; Hix (2009).</p>
<p>Rosswog S, Ramirez-Ruiz E, Hix WR. 2009. <a href="https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0004-637X/695/1/404/meta" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Astrophys. J. 695:404–419</a> (open access, and <a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/0808.2143" rel="nofollow noreferrer">arXiv</a>).</p>
</blockquote>
<p>If I'm not mistaken, the variables are:</p>
<ul>
<li>R<sub>*</sub> radius of the star</li>
<li>R<sub>p</sub> orbital <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apsis#Terminology" rel="nofollow noreferrer">pericenter (periapsis)</a> of the BH-star system</li>
<li>R<sub>S</sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_radius" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Schwarzschild radius</a> of the black hole</li>
<li>R<sub>T</sub> &quot;tidal disruption radius&quot; (Equation 2, Section 3.1)</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-06-08T09:39:13.937Z
Pretty sure there is disruption in the mass range given by the base of the triangle for each type of star.
ProfRob
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-06-08T11:08:25.017Z
@ProfRob Yes, I tried to cover that with "Does this mean that for the conditions external to *all possible triangles* (above, below, left and right of the overlapping triangular areas *of all start types that one wants to consider)...*" My meaning was that for a given star type, *all possible triangles* would span all possible ages and masses and metallicities and rotation rates and anything else. If there's a non-awkward wording to say all that please feel free to edit, I've run out of space words for the day :-)
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-06-08T12:04:55.350Z
@PM2Ring *as I have point out in my question in item 2*, on the left sides of the triangle the figure indicates "$R_{star} > R_{Schwarzschild}$, BH enters star" and presumably this would apply to any triangle representing a given star. When  outside and to the left of the spaghettification triangle for a given star, I'm asking if the black hole enters gracefully and  then starts eating the star from within.
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-06-08T12:12:19.830Z
Sorry, I misunderstood. I didn't notice that you were talking about small BHs entering larger stars.
PM 2Ring
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-06-08T12:16:09.767Z
@PM2Ring it's a cool figure, while it looks deceptively simple it's had me scratching my head for a while trying to get a handle on the story it's telling.
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-06-08T12:20:23.980Z
@ProfRob (cont.) Actually, I probably need to get rid of "overlapping" and perhaps use "any of" or "the union of" for the triangles, but I'm not yet sure of how to do that gracefully.
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-06-08T12:33:45.590Z
@PM2Ring this answer provides some perspective on very small ones https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/40197 and I'm wondering if a larger one would be slowed by some kind of viscous damping and settle to the core of the Sun and just sit quietly, munching away...
uhoh
<black-hole><tidal-forces><stellar-astrophysics><merger>
Understanding various conditions where a star and a black hole meet and there is no tidal disruption; what all can we infer from this diagram?
uhoh
# Understanding various conditions where a star and a black hole meet and there is no tidal disruption; what all can we infer from this diagram?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2021-06-08)

[Can an entire star pass through the event horizon of a black hole unharmed?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/44223/7982) is a one sentence HNQ with an amazing (to me at least) answer: for supermassive black holes larger than roughly 100 million solar masses (they can get [way bigger than that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messier_87#Supermassive_black_hole_M87*)) a star like our Sun can probably pass through the event horizon "unharmed", or at least not tidally disrupted and [spaghettified](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghettification).

**[@ProfRob's answer there](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/44226/7982)** links to Suvi Gezari's April 21, 2021 preprint [Tidal Disruption Events](https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.14580) which includes the interesting figure shown below, which I am trying to understand.

**Question(s):**

1. Does this mean that for the conditions external to all possible triangles (above, below, left and right of the overlapping triangular areas of all start types that one wants to consider) spaghettification is not likely to happen and there is "safe passage" of the star through the event horizon (or the event horizon into the star), otherwise known as **being eaten alive** as ProfRob points obliquely as:

> > ...suggesting indeed that more massive black holes are able to swallow stars whole.

2. On the *left sides* of the triangles, this really suggest that the black hole can "gracefully" enter the star without tidally disrupting it? The star would continue to look like a roughly spherical star, but being eaten alive from within?

[![Figure 1: Allowable region for the tidal disruption of stars representative of different evolutionary states https://arxiv.org/abs/2104.14580](https://i.sstatic.net/s6N5E.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/s6N5E.png)

> Figure 1: Allowable region for the tidal disruption of stars representative of different evolutionary states, a 0.6M☉ carbon oxygen white dwarf (CO WD), a 0.17M☉ helium white dwarf (He WD), a 1M☉ main-sequence star (MS), and a 1.4M☉ red giant (RG), bounded by the conditions that Rp < RT, R\* < RS, and RT > RS for a TDE to be observable, as a function of black hole mass (MBH) and β is the strength of the tidal encounter (β ≡ RT/Rp). Diagram inspired by Rosswog, Ramirez-Ruiz & Hix (2009).
>
> Rosswog S, Ramirez-Ruiz E, Hix WR. 2009. [Astrophys. J. 695:404–419](https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0004-637X/695/1/404/meta) (open access, and [arXiv](https://arxiv.org/abs/0808.2143)).

If I'm not mistaken, the variables are:

* R\* radius of the star
* Rp orbital [pericenter (periapsis)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apsis#Terminology) of the BH-star system
* RS [Schwarzschild radius](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_radius) of the black hole
* RT "tidal disruption radius" (Equation 2, Section 3.1)

**Tags:** black-hole, tidal-forces, stellar-astrophysics, merger
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Pretty sure there is disruption in the mass range given by the base of the triangle for each type of star.  
> **username_0**: @ProfRob Yes, I tried to cover that with "Does this mean that for the conditions external to *all possible triangles* (above, below, left and right of the overlapping triangular areas *of all start types that one wants to consider)...*" My meaning was that for a given star type, *all possible triangles* would span all possible ages and masses and metallicities and rotation rates and anything else. If there's a non-awkward wording to say all that please feel free to edit, I've run out of space words for the day :-)  
> **username_0**: @PM2Ring *as I have point out in my question in item 2*, on the left sides of the triangle the figure indicates "$R_{star} > R_{Schwarzschild}$, BH enters star" and presumably this would apply to any triangle representing a given star. When  outside and to the left of the spaghettification triangle for a given star, I'm asking if the black hole enters gracefully and  then starts eating the star from within.  
> **username_2**: Sorry, I misunderstood. I didn't notice that you were talking about small BHs entering larger stars.  
> **username_0**: @PM2Ring it's a cool figure, while it looks deceptively simple it's had me scratching my head for a while trying to get a handle on the story it's telling.  
> **username_0**: @ProfRob (cont.) Actually, I probably need to get rid of "overlapping" and perhaps use "any of" or "the union of" for the triangles, but I'm not yet sure of how to do that gracefully.  
> **username_0**: @PM2Ring this answer provides some perspective on very small ones https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/40197 and I'm wondering if a larger one would be slowed by some kind of viscous damping and settle to the core of the Sun and just sit quietly, munching away...  

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## 0 answers

