<p>As a fan of exometeorology (the study of atmospheres of other planets), I scanned through a whitepaper <a href="https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2007/2007.05412.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Measuring Mars Atmospheric Winds from Orbit</a> which says</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Measurements of Mars
atmospheric winds from orbit would dramatically advance our understanding of Mars and help prepare for human exploration of the Red Planet.  Multiple instrument candidates are in development and will be ready for flight in the next decade. We urge the Decadal Survey to make these measurements a priority for 2023-2032.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This gives me the impression that our knowledge about spatial wind speed distribution on Mars are scarce. But what about <strong>indirect methods to determine prevailing wind speeds at different locations</strong> on Mars?</p>
<p>Some years ago I attended a lecture by <a href="http://www.hans-herrmann.ethz.ch" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Prof. Hans Herrmann</a> showing that the shapes of <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barchan" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Barchan sand dunes</a> might be a good candidate for indirectly determining the prevailing winds of Mars. However, I could not find any survey study which would analyze the complete observed Mars surface for dunes and map the average wind speed on Mars. Is there such an effort already on the way? Are there any arguments against such a Mars-dune-windspeed-survey?</p>
<h3>Further reading</h3>
<ul>
<li>Philippe Claudin, Bruno Andreotti: <em>A scaling law for aeolian dunes on Mars, Venus, Earth, and for subaqueous ripples</em>. <a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0603656" rel="nofollow noreferrer">cond-mat/0603656</a></li>
<li>Eric J. R. Parteli, Hans J. Herrmann : <em>Dune formation on the present Mars</em> <a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/0705.0809" rel="nofollow noreferrer">arxiv:0705.0809</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2015/06/The_effect_of_the_winds_of_Mars" rel="nofollow noreferrer">ESA.int: The effect of the winds of Mars</a></li>
<li><a href="https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/19150/37191">Is the wind&#39;s intensity on Mars similar to Earth?</a></li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-12-08T17:00:33.983Z
At first thought, angle of repose should win out, regardless of wind speed. But there could *easily* be some effect I'm missing here. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_repose
Wayfaring Stranger
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-12-08T19:49:43.053Z
@WayfaringStranger Your comment reminded me that I forgot the essential keyword, which I just edited in: The theory holds on **Barchan dunes**. More on the involved process: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltation_(geology)
B--rian
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-12-09T04:28:59.417Z
I know nothing of dunes but that doesn't stop me from asking questions about them. In Earth Science SE I'd asked [What produces these distinct shapes in the Rub' al Khali seen from space?](https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/q/10617/6031) now searching for "Barchan" there returns [The grains of the parabolic dunes](https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/q/10391/6031) which makes me wonder if there's a better answer to my question.
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-12-20T11:34:15.793Z
Great question - and difficult to answer. To my knowledge there's no definitive answer on it - but that doesn't say there's no PhD, MSc or BSc thesis on the topic which might answer it more profoundly than your research already reveals. Problem is also that a lot of assumption go into modelling wind speeds based on morphological observations, including the different grain behaviour in different atmosphere, temperature, insolation and gravity
planetmaker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-09-01T04:04:29.187Z
It seems to me that you would need a very good model for how transport speeds/mechanisms work with Mars' dust, atmosphere, and gravity, and then you would have to track those which generally require HiRISE scales. Just looking at dune shapes/directions wouldn't get you that information. If you want wind DIRECTION only, then we have plenty of info from images.
Stuart Robbins
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-09-07T07:06:53.533Z
I would appreciate if anyone of you could write an answer (draft), so that I could reward my points to somebody...
B--rian
<mars><weather><observational-astronomy>
Spatial wind speed distribution on Mars using dune shapes?
B--rian
# Spatial wind speed distribution on Mars using dune shapes?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2020-12-08)

As a fan of exometeorology (the study of atmospheres of other planets), I scanned through a whitepaper [Measuring Mars Atmospheric Winds from Orbit](https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/2007/2007.05412.pdf) which says

> Measurements of Mars
> atmospheric winds from orbit would dramatically advance our understanding of Mars and help prepare for human exploration of the Red Planet. Multiple instrument candidates are in development and will be ready for flight in the next decade. We urge the Decadal Survey to make these measurements a priority for 2023-2032.

This gives me the impression that our knowledge about spatial wind speed distribution on Mars are scarce. But what about **indirect methods to determine prevailing wind speeds at different locations** on Mars?

Some years ago I attended a lecture by [Prof. Hans Herrmann](http://www.hans-herrmann.ethz.ch) showing that the shapes of [Barchan sand dunes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barchan) might be a good candidate for indirectly determining the prevailing winds of Mars. However, I could not find any survey study which would analyze the complete observed Mars surface for dunes and map the average wind speed on Mars. Is there such an effort already on the way? Are there any arguments against such a Mars-dune-windspeed-survey?

### Further reading

* Philippe Claudin, Bruno Andreotti: *A scaling law for aeolian dunes on Mars, Venus, Earth, and for subaqueous ripples*. [cond-mat/0603656](https://arxiv.org/abs/cond-mat/0603656)
* Eric J. R. Parteli, Hans J. Herrmann : *Dune formation on the present Mars* [arxiv:0705.0809](https://arxiv.org/abs/0705.0809)
* [ESA.int: The effect of the winds of Mars](https://www.esa.int/ESA_Multimedia/Images/2015/06/The_effect_of_the_winds_of_Mars)
* [Is the wind's intensity on Mars similar to Earth?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/19150/37191)

**Tags:** mars, weather, observational-astronomy
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: At first thought, angle of repose should win out, regardless of wind speed. But there could *easily* be some effect I'm missing here. Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_repose  
> **username_0**: @WayfaringStranger Your comment reminded me that I forgot the essential keyword, which I just edited in: The theory holds on **Barchan dunes**. More on the involved process: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltation_(geology)  
> **username_2**: I know nothing of dunes but that doesn't stop me from asking questions about them. In Earth Science SE I'd asked [What produces these distinct shapes in the Rub' al Khali seen from space?](https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/q/10617/6031) now searching for "Barchan" there returns [The grains of the parabolic dunes](https://earthscience.stackexchange.com/q/10391/6031) which makes me wonder if there's a better answer to my question.  
> **username_3**: Great question - and difficult to answer. To my knowledge there's no definitive answer on it - but that doesn't say there's no PhD, MSc or BSc thesis on the topic which might answer it more profoundly than your research already reveals. Problem is also that a lot of assumption go into modelling wind speeds based on morphological observations, including the different grain behaviour in different atmosphere, temperature, insolation and gravity  
> **username_4**: It seems to me that you would need a very good model for how transport speeds/mechanisms work with Mars' dust, atmosphere, and gravity, and then you would have to track those which generally require HiRISE scales. Just looking at dune shapes/directions wouldn't get you that information. If you want wind DIRECTION only, then we have plenty of info from images.  
> **username_0**: I would appreciate if anyone of you could write an answer (draft), so that I could reward my points to somebody...  

---

## 0 answers

