<p>No extraterrestrial life has ever been found and we only know of one creature that has formed a civilisation: Homo sapiens. And we have not yet reached type I.</p>
<p>So we know nothing from observations about civilisations that are beyond our own. Kardashev wanted to have a way of thinking that didn't put &quot;humans&quot; at the top, so he described types I, II and III. These give us a way of thinking hypothetically about possible extraterrestrial intelligent life and breaks us free from a human-centred point of view.</p>
<p>Now it might be hard to detect type I or II civilisations, but a type III civilisation would, it seems likely, have profound effects on all worlds in a galaxy or at least the region of a galaxy in which they existed.  There does not seem to be any type III civilisation in our part of the galaxy.</p>
<p>Moreover going from type II to type III requires taking over large amounts of star systems and this bumps up against the &quot;space is big&quot; and &quot;you can't go faster than light&quot; problems.</p>
<p>That said, in fact we have no idea if any life form in the whole universe has ever even reached type I</p>
<p>Type 4 and 5 are later additions to the system and there is no standard definition of what type 4 or 5 are (you can extrapolate logarithmically, or you can add some alternate measure of civilisation such as &quot;data processing&quot;.</p>
<p>We cannot understand advanced civilizations, we cannot predict their behaviour. Thus, the Kardashev scale may not be relevant or useful for classifying extraterrestrial civilizations.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-02T21:10:04.677Z
James K type 4 civilizations have expanded in the local group of galaxies and type 5 civilizations have expanded even further.My question: Is there a need in advancement of technology from 4 to 5 or  all type 4 become type 5 over millions of years? The question can be translated:If we have the technology to reach our local group could we go even further or is it forbidden?
Helena Wells
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-02T20:54:32.633Z
2020-08-02T20:54:32.633Z
James K
<p>Why is becoming a type 3 from a type 2 civilization the hardest?</p>
<p>I have watched many videos on the topic and still can't figure out why?</p>
<p>Also is there a difference in technology between a type 4 and a type 5 civilization or it is just all type 4 civilizations become type 5 civilizations after some time?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-04T14:26:18.530Z
@a_donda - Read Kardashev's original paper. The classification is used to organise what to look for when looking for ETI, not to explain away anything.
Anders Sandberg
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-04T19:38:43.890Z
@a_donda One person's garbage is another person's treasure.
Helena Wells
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-04T19:45:00.523Z
@a_donda we haven't found proof extraterresital beings exist (aliens) however we haven't found proof they don't exist.
Helena Wells
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-02T20:38:29.347Z
So far the Kardashev scale is entirely hypothetical. We do not even know of a type I civilization (humanity can hardly be considered a 0.5 when we can not even get that pesky global warming problem under control). So it's entirely hypothetical what it takes to get from one level to another.
Philipp
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2020-08-02T20:45:01.120Z
That's easy.A type 1 civilization can control all the resources of its planet.
Helena Wells
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-02T21:26:33.160Z
@Philipp Somewhere I've read we are on 0.7 .
peterh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-02T21:27:32.603Z
We are currently at 0.75 and it is expected we reach 1 in the next hundred years.
Helena Wells
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-02T22:40:57.170Z
There are no "0.7" or "0.75"  There is only I, II and III.  And they are a model for thinking about advanced civilisation.  They don't "exist" we can't say what "usually" or "always" happens.  Don't try to make the system a precise measure, it works well as a framework because it is qualitative, not quantitative.  A lot depends on whether stable fusion in a power generator is an engineering possibility or not.
James K
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-03T00:33:43.577Z
@JamesK Probably this 0.7 was calculated by fitting a model to the I-II-III Kardashev types and then subtituting us into this model. As I've heard, "Type IV" is an extrapolation of the original Kardashev-scale. A Type IV civilization could harness the energy of the whole Universe. I never heard about a "Type V". Maybe it would be an "inter-universe" civilization, understanding here the sci-fi meaning of the "Universe" ($\approx$ Minkowski-space). But imho this whole question is not about astronomy. It is imho something between space exploration and worldbuilding.
peterh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-03T00:35:13.473Z
@JamesK But I believe these questions are created by good-standing laymans with a strong science interest, and it is so... dark to simply close and delete them. I voted for closure but I did it with bleeding heart.
peterh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-03T00:38:23.837Z
Lol have you seen my profile?
Helena Wells
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-03T07:02:09.203Z
The Kardashev scale is entirely descriptive, just like spectral classes of stars. It was intended for astrobiological research, and does have content. It is just that it deals with a very unusual and so far only once observed object.
Anders Sandberg
<galaxy><observable-universe><extra-terrestrial>
Kardashev scale
Helena Wells
# Kardashev scale

(Asked by: username_0 on 2020-08-02)

Why is becoming a type 3 from a type 2 civilization the hardest?

I have watched many videos on the topic and still can't figure out why?

Also is there a difference in technology between a type 4 and a type 5 civilization or it is just all type 4 civilizations become type 5 civilizations after some time?

**Tags:** galaxy, observable-universe, extra-terrestrial
> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: So far the Kardashev scale is entirely hypothetical. We do not even know of a type I civilization (humanity can hardly be considered a 0.5 when we can not even get that pesky global warming problem under control). So it's entirely hypothetical what it takes to get from one level to another.  
> **username_0**: That's easy.A type 1 civilization can control all the resources of its planet.  
> **username_3**: @Philipp Somewhere I've read we are on 0.7 .  
> **username_0**: We are currently at 0.75 and it is expected we reach 1 in the next hundred years.  
> **username_4**: There are no "0.7" or "0.75"  There is only I, II and III.  And they are a model for thinking about advanced civilisation.  They don't "exist" we can't say what "usually" or "always" happens.  Don't try to make the system a precise measure, it works well as a framework because it is qualitative, not quantitative.  A lot depends on whether stable fusion in a power generator is an engineering possibility or not.  
> **username_3**: @JamesK Probably this 0.7 was calculated by fitting a model to the I-II-III Kardashev types and then subtituting us into this model. As I've heard, "Type IV" is an extrapolation of the original Kardashev-scale. A Type IV civilization could harness the energy of the whole Universe. I never heard about a "Type V". Maybe it would be an "inter-universe" civilization, understanding here the sci-fi meaning of the "Universe" ($\approx$ Minkowski-space). But imho this whole question is not about astronomy. It is imho something between space exploration and worldbuilding.  
> **username_3**: @JamesK But I believe these questions are created by good-standing laymans with a strong science interest, and it is so... dark to simply close and delete them. I voted for closure but I did it with bleeding heart.  
> **username_0**: Lol have you seen my profile?  
> **username_1**: The Kardashev scale is entirely descriptive, just like spectral classes of stars. It was intended for astrobiological research, and does have content. It is just that it deals with a very unusual and so far only once observed object.  
> **username_1**: @a_donda - Read Kardashev's original paper. The classification is used to organise what to look for when looking for ETI, not to explain away anything.  
> **username_0**: @a_donda One person's garbage is another person's treasure.  
> **username_0**: @a_donda we haven't found proof extraterresital beings exist (aliens) however we haven't found proof they don't exist.  

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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2020-08-02. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

No extraterrestrial life has ever been found and we only know of one creature that has formed a civilisation: Homo sapiens. And we have not yet reached type I.

So we know nothing from observations about civilisations that are beyond our own. Kardashev wanted to have a way of thinking that didn't put "humans" at the top, so he described types I, II and III. These give us a way of thinking hypothetically about possible extraterrestrial intelligent life and breaks us free from a human-centred point of view.

Now it might be hard to detect type I or II civilisations, but a type III civilisation would, it seems likely, have profound effects on all worlds in a galaxy or at least the region of a galaxy in which they existed. There does not seem to be any type III civilisation in our part of the galaxy.

Moreover going from type II to type III requires taking over large amounts of star systems and this bumps up against the "space is big" and "you can't go faster than light" problems.

That said, in fact we have no idea if any life form in the whole universe has ever even reached type I

Type 4 and 5 are later additions to the system and there is no standard definition of what type 4 or 5 are (you can extrapolate logarithmically, or you can add some alternate measure of civilisation such as "data processing".

We cannot understand advanced civilizations, we cannot predict their behaviour. Thus, the Kardashev scale may not be relevant or useful for classifying extraterrestrial civilizations.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: James K type 4 civilizations have expanded in the local group of galaxies and type 5 civilizations have expanded even further.My question: Is there a need in advancement of technology from 4 to 5 or  all type 4 become type 5 over millions of years? The question can be translated:If we have the technology to reach our local group could we go even further or is it forbidden?  

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