<p>In an atom, the electrons are held around the nucleus by electromagnetic forces.  The electrons have a negative charge, and the nucleus has a positive charge, and these attract.</p>
<p>But if you give the electrons more energy they won't stay orbiting a nucleus, instead, if they have enough energy they will go flying freely, forming a <em>plasma</em> composed of atomic nuclei (proton, alpha particles) and free electron</p>
<p>If you make something hot, it can transfers some of that energy to the electrons cause a plasma to form.  It doesn't need to be very hot to form a plasma: the sun is made entirely of plasma, as are lightning bolts and there is some plasma in a regular flame too.</p>
<p>Atoms can only form when it is cool enough for electrons move more slowly and to be captured by the nuclei.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-18T20:13:13.123Z
Thank you  1.  so since the area is too hot, it gives energy to the electrons and because of this, electrons dont stay at the orbital ? 2. Even though electrons dont stay at the orbital, protons and neutrons can still form the nuclei right ?
Giorgi Lagidze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-18T20:19:31.950Z
Better question is why do protons and neutrons still make it possible to produce nucleus and rlectron not possible to be in the orbitals? With the explanation, protons and neutrons should also be moving and not possible to make the nucleus in this hot area
Giorgi Lagidze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-18T20:47:52.760Z
By the end of the first second protons and neutrons have formed.  They start forming at about 0.00001s. And then from about 10 seconds to 1000 seconds conditions are suitable for these to fuse into helium nuclei,  So by 1000 seconds atomic nuclei have formed.  Atoms don't form for a another 300,000 years.  Before about 0.00001 seconds, its too hot even for protons and neutrons, and the universe is dominated by quarks.
James K
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-18T20:49:13.920Z
Its possible for nuclei to form before atoms because the protons and neutrons are bound much more tightly by the strong nuclear force, rather than the electromagnetic force.
James K
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-18T21:06:07.130Z
as heat gives energy to electrons(-) to wander around and not be attracted to proton(+) - because the energy is quite huge to overcome the attraction force - the same thing doesn't happen for proton + neutron to form. because strong force is much bigger than the energy ? but Now I wonder, it was so hot at at time, why protons and neutrons didn't receive energy the same way that electron did ? electron started jumping around, so protons should have started that as well. Is there a conclusion that strong nuclear force is even bigger than the energy heat gave to protons/neutrons to jump around ?
Giorgi Lagidze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-18T21:08:03.937Z
but how can strong force be that big than that huge energy from the huge heat ? it seems NOT logical.   If protons and neutrons received energy the same way as electrons, they definately would have started jumping around, hence strong force would never overcome such a huge energy protons/neutrons would have that they received from the huge heat. Am I wrong ? :(
Giorgi Lagidze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-18T21:15:07.043Z
The strong force is very strong.   Unfortunately your intuition is trumped by people who have done the actual maths and found out exactly what happens.  I haven't done the maths myself (way beyond me) But that's really all there is to say.  As the temperature drops from 1 trillion Kelvin to 10 billion then protons and neutrons form  As it drops from 1billion to 10 million K nuclei form, and at about 4000K atoms form.
James K
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-18T21:16:01.263Z
In any debate between intuition and maths,  maths usually wins!
James K
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-18T21:16:08.030Z
Let us [continue this discussion in chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/145433/discussion-between-giorgi-lagidze-and-james-k).
Giorgi Lagidze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-18T16:56:44.803Z
2023-04-18T16:56:44.803Z
James K
<p>I'm asking about the time when temperature was super high, but at that time we already had proton, neutron, electrons.</p>
<p>It seems they were moving super fast due to temperature being so high.</p>
<p>What I'm curious about is why they couldn't get together to form atom. I read some stuff, where collision would happen and the high-energy particles collided with each other at a rapid pace, transferring energy and preventing the formation of stable atomic nuclei. but I don't really get it.</p>
<p>Would you be willing to explain it in simple terms by step by step the reason ?</p>

<star><big-bang-theory><electromagnetic-spectrum><proton>
why couldn't atoms form in the early big bang?
Giorgi Lagidze
# why couldn't atoms form in the early big bang?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-04-18)

I'm asking about the time when temperature was super high, but at that time we already had proton, neutron, electrons.

It seems they were moving super fast due to temperature being so high.

What I'm curious about is why they couldn't get together to form atom. I read some stuff, where collision would happen and the high-energy particles collided with each other at a rapid pace, transferring energy and preventing the formation of stable atomic nuclei. but I don't really get it.

Would you be willing to explain it in simple terms by step by step the reason ?

**Tags:** star, big-bang-theory, electromagnetic-spectrum, proton

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2023-04-18. Score: 5 | Accepted answer

In an atom, the electrons are held around the nucleus by electromagnetic forces. The electrons have a negative charge, and the nucleus has a positive charge, and these attract.

But if you give the electrons more energy they won't stay orbiting a nucleus, instead, if they have enough energy they will go flying freely, forming a *plasma* composed of atomic nuclei (proton, alpha particles) and free electron

If you make something hot, it can transfers some of that energy to the electrons cause a plasma to form. It doesn't need to be very hot to form a plasma: the sun is made entirely of plasma, as are lightning bolts and there is some plasma in a regular flame too.

Atoms can only form when it is cool enough for electrons move more slowly and to be captured by the nuclei.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thank you  1.  so since the area is too hot, it gives energy to the electrons and because of this, electrons dont stay at the orbital ? 2. Even though electrons dont stay at the orbital, protons and neutrons can still form the nuclei right ?  
> **username_0**: Better question is why do protons and neutrons still make it possible to produce nucleus and rlectron not possible to be in the orbitals? With the explanation, protons and neutrons should also be moving and not possible to make the nucleus in this hot area  
> **username_1**: By the end of the first second protons and neutrons have formed.  They start forming at about 0.00001s. And then from about 10 seconds to 1000 seconds conditions are suitable for these to fuse into helium nuclei,  So by 1000 seconds atomic nuclei have formed.  Atoms don't form for a another 300,000 years.  Before about 0.00001 seconds, its too hot even for protons and neutrons, and the universe is dominated by quarks.  
> **username_1**: Its possible for nuclei to form before atoms because the protons and neutrons are bound much more tightly by the strong nuclear force, rather than the electromagnetic force.  
> **username_0**: as heat gives energy to electrons(-) to wander around and not be attracted to proton(+) - because the energy is quite huge to overcome the attraction force - the same thing doesn't happen for proton + neutron to form. because strong force is much bigger than the energy ? but Now I wonder, it was so hot at at time, why protons and neutrons didn't receive energy the same way that electron did ? electron started jumping around, so protons should have started that as well. Is there a conclusion that strong nuclear force is even bigger than the energy heat gave to protons/neutrons to jump around ?  
> **username_0**: but how can strong force be that big than that huge energy from the huge heat ? it seems NOT logical.   If protons and neutrons received energy the same way as electrons, they definately would have started jumping around, hence strong force would never overcome such a huge energy protons/neutrons would have that they received from the huge heat. Am I wrong ? :(  
> **username_1**: The strong force is very strong.   Unfortunately your intuition is trumped by people who have done the actual maths and found out exactly what happens.  I haven't done the maths myself (way beyond me) But that's really all there is to say.  As the temperature drops from 1 trillion Kelvin to 10 billion then protons and neutrons form  As it drops from 1billion to 10 million K nuclei form, and at about 4000K atoms form.  
> **username_1**: In any debate between intuition and maths,  maths usually wins!  
> **username_0**: Let us [continue this discussion in chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/145433/discussion-between-giorgi-lagidze-and-james-k).  

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