<p>A lot of it relies on observations, the International Meteor Organization hosts the <a href="https://www.imo.net/members/imo_vmdb" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Visual Meteor Database</a> with observations going back to 1972.  So, imagine plotting the Earth's orbit in 3D space over time, and placing a dot  every time a meteor was observed.  That would essentially give you the view of one little tunnel through the debris stream's path.  Over the years, you get more and more tunnels giving you a better idea of what's there and how it's moving.</p>
<p>This is also correlated with known orbiting objects, and usually a known comet can be linked to the debris path.  And additional refinements based on the comet's orbit can be made.</p>
<p>As you can imagine, there is an enormous variability in the observation of meteors depending on things like weather, observer's skill, how many people are observing, etc.  There are other methods of observation too, like radio scatter, and even radar now.  So there are a wide range of different methods employed to bring down the error margin.</p>
<p>The International Meteor Conference for <a href="https://imc2020.imo.net/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">2020</a> and <a href="https://imc2021.imo.net/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">2021</a> were held online, and the lectures available on Youtube.  So you can have a look at those to get an idea for the various methods employed.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-14T14:52:09.877Z
2022-08-14T14:52:09.877Z
Greg Miller
<p>Yesterday the annual perseides meteor shower peaked (and I was lucky to see a handful of wakes). Since the bits from Swift-Tuttle have distributed to form a band of debris over the millenia and earth passes through that band, I wonder how to describe the band's dimensions.</p>
<p>I'd go along these lines:</p>
<ul>
<li>&quot;shower period&quot; is from July 17 – August 24, i.e. 39 days</li>
<li>Earth orbits the sun at <span class="math-container">$1.07×10^5$</span> km per hour <a href="http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/41-our-solar-system/the-earth/orbit/91-at-what-speed-does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun-beginner" rel="nofollow noreferrer">says Cornell</a></li>
</ul>
<p>I'd assume:</p>
<ul>
<li>Earth moves through the band's full diameter, not e.g. tangentially</li>
<li>the band is symmetrical, i.e. the asymmetrical pre and post-maximum rates do not matter</li>
</ul>
<p>So that gives a simplified <span class="math-container">$39 × 24 × 1.07×10^5 = 1.00152×10^7$</span> km as the plausible diameter.</p>
<p>Is my rule of thumb way to calculate this reasonable? As in, campfire discussion precise? Or am I missing relevant details?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-14T08:42:46.720Z
Great question! You may find answers to some of these helpful: [What makes some meteor showers continue for days, while the "Unicorn shower" can be shorter than one hour?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/34018/7982) and [Why do particles from a comet that result in meteor showers spread out mostly along the comet's orbit?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/35919/7982) and [How to calculate the position of a meteor shower's radiant point based on its associated comet's orbit?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/37134/7982) and...
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-14T08:43:10.033Z
[What meteor shower has the radiant that appears furthest west after sunset, and why?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/38474/7982) and [Why would the Perseids meteor rate fall off after maximum faster than the increase before maximum?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/27301/7982) and [Why are Delta Aquariids "for the southern hemisphere" while the Perseids are "for the north"?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/37122/7982) and [Why are these objects moving at Vastly Different Speeds along the same orbit?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/20597/7982)
uhoh
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-14T09:01:01.467Z
FWIW, here are the orbital elements of [8P/Tuttle](https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/api/horizons.api?format=text&MAKE_EPHEM=NO&COMMAND=90000179). Its inclination is fairly steep: almost 55°. It has SPKID 90000179, which you can use to make a 3D interactive plot of its orbit using my live Python script at the end of [this answer](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/49823/16685). To plot the whole comet orbit, I suggest a step of 30 days. The SPKIDs of the Sun & Earth are 10 & 399.
PM 2Ring
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-14T10:37:34.347Z
@PM2Ring that is an especially useful suggestion. Thanks! Layperson as I am, I'll take my time looking at the script.
raddaqii
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-14T10:47:25.460Z
Glad you like it. :) The script is mostly Python, but it uses Sage's vector objects & 3D plotting functions. Of course, the meteoroid orbits aren't exactly the same as the comet orbit, but they're pretty close, and almost in the same plane.
PM 2Ring
<meteor-shower>
How can you usefully determine the dimensions of the perseides meteor shower band earth passes through?
raddaqii
# How can you usefully determine the dimensions of the perseides meteor shower band earth passes through?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2022-08-14)

Yesterday the annual perseides meteor shower peaked (and I was lucky to see a handful of wakes). Since the bits from Swift-Tuttle have distributed to form a band of debris over the millenia and earth passes through that band, I wonder how to describe the band's dimensions.

I'd go along these lines:

* "shower period" is from July 17 – August 24, i.e. 39 days
* Earth orbits the sun at $1.07×10^5$ km per hour [says Cornell](http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/41-our-solar-system/the-earth/orbit/91-at-what-speed-does-the-earth-move-around-the-sun-beginner)

I'd assume:

* Earth moves through the band's full diameter, not e.g. tangentially
* the band is symmetrical, i.e. the asymmetrical pre and post-maximum rates do not matter

So that gives a simplified $39 × 24 × 1.07×10^5 = 1.00152×10^7$ km as the plausible diameter.

Is my rule of thumb way to calculate this reasonable? As in, campfire discussion precise? Or am I missing relevant details?

**Tags:** meteor-shower
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Great question! You may find answers to some of these helpful: [What makes some meteor showers continue for days, while the "Unicorn shower" can be shorter than one hour?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/34018/7982) and [Why do particles from a comet that result in meteor showers spread out mostly along the comet's orbit?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/35919/7982) and [How to calculate the position of a meteor shower's radiant point based on its associated comet's orbit?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/37134/7982) and...  
> **username_1**: [What meteor shower has the radiant that appears furthest west after sunset, and why?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/38474/7982) and [Why would the Perseids meteor rate fall off after maximum faster than the increase before maximum?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/27301/7982) and [Why are Delta Aquariids "for the southern hemisphere" while the Perseids are "for the north"?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/37122/7982) and [Why are these objects moving at Vastly Different Speeds along the same orbit?](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/q/20597/7982)  
> **username_2**: FWIW, here are the orbital elements of [8P/Tuttle](https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/api/horizons.api?format=text&MAKE_EPHEM=NO&COMMAND=90000179). Its inclination is fairly steep: almost 55°. It has SPKID 90000179, which you can use to make a 3D interactive plot of its orbit using my live Python script at the end of [this answer](https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/49823/16685). To plot the whole comet orbit, I suggest a step of 30 days. The SPKIDs of the Sun & Earth are 10 & 399.  
> **username_0**: @PM2Ring that is an especially useful suggestion. Thanks! Layperson as I am, I'll take my time looking at the script.  
> **username_2**: Glad you like it. :) The script is mostly Python, but it uses Sage's vector objects & 3D plotting functions. Of course, the meteoroid orbits aren't exactly the same as the comet orbit, but they're pretty close, and almost in the same plane.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2022-08-14. Score: 3

A lot of it relies on observations, the International Meteor Organization hosts the [Visual Meteor Database](https://www.imo.net/members/imo_vmdb) with observations going back to 1972. So, imagine plotting the Earth's orbit in 3D space over time, and placing a dot every time a meteor was observed. That would essentially give you the view of one little tunnel through the debris stream's path. Over the years, you get more and more tunnels giving you a better idea of what's there and how it's moving.

This is also correlated with known orbiting objects, and usually a known comet can be linked to the debris path. And additional refinements based on the comet's orbit can be made.

As you can imagine, there is an enormous variability in the observation of meteors depending on things like weather, observer's skill, how many people are observing, etc. There are other methods of observation too, like radio scatter, and even radar now. So there are a wide range of different methods employed to bring down the error margin.

The International Meteor Conference for [2020](https://imc2020.imo.net/) and [2021](https://imc2021.imo.net/) were held online, and the lectures available on Youtube. So you can have a look at those to get an idea for the various methods employed.


---

