<p>This is varying underextrusion due to loss of material to oozing in the interior of the model.</p>
<p>When printing the infill pattern, the nozzle doesn't follow a single continuous extrusion path, but moves from the end of one path to the beginning of the next, and under Cura defaults, <em>does this without retracting the filament</em>. This causes unpredictable amounts to ooze out during travel from one to the next, thereby desynchronizing the planned/intended amount of material extruded so far and the actual amount. This means, when the next outer-wall extrusion starts, there's an unpredictable deficiency between the amount of material at the nozzle to extrude, and the amount the slicer intended to extrude. The result is what you're seeing.</p>
<p>To fix it, you need to eliminate oozing, not just outside the model where it appears as visible stringing, but inside too. Either disable &quot;Combing&quot; entirely in Cura, or set &quot;Max Comb Distance With No Retract&quot; to something very low (0.8 mm or less). Also set &quot;Minimum Extrusion Distance Window&quot; to 0 to ensure Cura doesn't skip retractions for other reasons.</p>
<p>You may also want to play with extrusion length and speed. Too short or too long can be bad; 5-7 mm is the reasonable range for PLA with a bowden. Higher speed generally helps too; the printer should be able to handle 50 mm/s or faster.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-18T22:47:55.507Z
I don't even have the slightest form of stringing or oozing on any of my prints actually. I'm not quite sure about this theory
GmodCake
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-18T23:42:38.403Z
How do you know you don't have it *inside* them? Have you watched closely during the print?
R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-19T00:07:38.530Z
Yeah I did, everything is surprisingly consistent except for this
GmodCake
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-19T14:15:18.430Z
Can't the issue be related to some form of hysteresis? Not posted as an answer, just a genuine thought. The printer is decent, but not of super quality (carriages on aluminum extrusion profiles, belts not straight, etc.). These ridges are often seen when the geometry changes, so that a different path is followed by the print head causing it to result in a few tenths of a mm difference with respect to the previous layers?. My custom Pursa i3 printer has this also, but my Hypercube CoreXY does not (nor does my Ultimaker 3E).
0scar
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-19T14:47:21.880Z
These don't even look like tenths of a mm but hundredths, maybe 0.08-0.10 mm at most. Positional hysteresis seems like a possibility but I've fought with this type of issue a lot including where it's caused structural weakness, and it seems to be extrusion related. Maybe hysteresis of the Bowden tube or excess flow where extrusions prior are overhanging and have less backpressure.
R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-15T08:40:00.360Z
This seems a clearly wrong answer. How can oozing affect the WHOLE perimeter, as shown in the photos?
FarO
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-15T17:35:06.837Z
@FarO: Because when the nozzle isn't properly primed after starting the perimeter, you don't just get a gap in extrusion then a normal perimeter. It will flow, just at a lower rate, until reaching an equilibrium where it's primed again.
R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-16T07:34:17.993Z
Still, it happens with every slicer, with/without retract, with/without combing, bowden/direct drive (where oozing and retractions are basically painless), ... Since you are a more advanced user, I really recommend reading the link I posted and giving a quick look to the Discord server/channel I mentioned.
FarO
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-19T09:43:14.257Z
By the way, printers with linear/pressure advance enabled should automatically reduce nozzle pressure before travel move, since during the travel move no filament is being extruded (a retraction is not required to trigger compensation for nozzle pressure). And still the issue of the hull line appears.
FarO
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-19T18:44:15.643Z
@FarO: That only works with direct drive. With bowden, the spring model LA/PA use is insufficient to represent the behavior of the bowden tube and filament over such a long distance, and while it will improve things so that there's less pressure, you will still have significant residual pressure and oozing unless you choose a K factor so high that your corners start to disappear inward.
R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-24T06:44:30.053Z
But it happens as well with direct drive. Moreover, if that were the cause, it would disappear on direct drive after maybe 1 mm of filament or likely less, while that is definitely appearing even on long and complex perimeters.
FarO
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-18T22:38:32.527Z
2021-01-18T22:38:32.527Z
R.. GitHub STOP HELPING ICE
<p>The issue with the &quot;<a href="https://help.prusa3d.com/article/the-benchy-hull-line_124745" rel="nofollow noreferrer">hull line</a>&quot; is known. It depends on the fact that the material shrinks after extrusion and faster layers give less time to the previous layer to shrink, so they appear continuous, while slower layers take more time, so the previous layer has more time to shrink and there will be a visible change in the outer dimensions.</p>
<p>So, larger layers are the slower ones. You can increase the temperature a bit, so that it will take more time to cool down to the shrinkage temperatures, you can print faster, you can increase chamber temperature to have more time before shrinkage, or you can cool more the part so that no matter the current layer time, the previous one will always be already shrunk.</p>
<p>In the Polymaker Discord server there is a channel about the &quot;hull line&quot;. You can find an invitation to the server and check there.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-15T08:46:02.793Z
2022-08-15T08:46:02.793Z
FarO
<p>If this matches the horizontal planes - like &quot;solid floor&quot; than I would advice to check overlap settings. My suspicion is slight overextrusion, which might be the reason of many small horizontal differences. Using 3 mm filament I often suffer of similar inconsistencies, until I find proper flowrate to avoid overextrusion. Adding first to second, the solid plane will push walls more to sides.</p>
<p>Do you print &quot;Infill Before Walls&quot; (Cura setting)?  You may try to disable this checkbox and observe if the result persisted. Also you may enable &quot;Outer Before Inner Walls&quot; - to ensure, that outer wall is printed first with least interference (though some other issues may appear after travel, layer change, etc.).</p>
<ul>
<li>So try print from outside to inside (outer walls &gt; inner walls &gt; infill).</li>
<li>Then try to reduce &quot;Flow&quot; until you see no overextrusion (or even small gaps in the surface).</li>
<li>Finally revert these settings (infill &gt; inner &gt; outer) and check again.</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-08-15T08:46:44.137Z
You can reduce the issue with less overlap, but the issue is due to shrinkage. Some tests were performed, see my answer
FarO
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-01-19T00:42:23.103Z
2021-01-19T14:05:50.193Z
2021-01-19T14:05:50.193Z
octopus8
<p>I've had an Ender 5 Plus for a few weeks now. It's printing great and I've got my tuning pretty good at the moment. I've noticed some horizontal inconsistencies matching feature/geometry changes. It seems to be associated with maybe layer time(?) I only have a picture from two models, but the problem will appear in other places on different models, always matching some change in the layers.</p>
<p>The problem is consistent all around the model and changes position with different prints, so I know it's not a mechanical problem. Say I printed a 2x2 cm tower 20 cm tall, it will not have any of these imperfections because every layer is identical.</p>
<p>I highly suspect the layer time/temperature change, but I don't know how to fix this, I'm a bit stumped. They both were printed at 200 °C and I'm trying a new one at 210 °C (best temperature with the spool I have) and it has the same problem. All three models are from the same spool of PLA.</p>
<p>Also, I use Cura with mostly default settings for the Ender 5+.</p>
<p>Here are the pictures :</p>
<p>I tried to highlight the idea, but every line matches with some change in the model
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/EwjN7.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/EwjN7.jpg" alt="Model 1" /></a></p>
<p>On the benchy it's harder to see, but the hull line match with the solid floor of the model, and the top ones match with the top window sill starting.</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/STS4C.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/STS4C.jpg" alt="Benchy" /></a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-02-02T14:36:27.687Z
I still struggle with some of it. I've just upgraded to a 32 bit board with TMC2209 and now noticed a potential wobble in my lead screw (not linked with artifact in the post tho). So I'll fix this this week and come back to this problem which I think is due to the infill overlap pulling on outer walls while cooling. Sorry for going MIA
GmodCake
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-21T07:40:57.130Z
I have exactly the same problem: " try print from outside to inside (outer walls > inner walls > infill).
Then try to reduce "Flow" until you see no over extrusion (or even small gaps in the surface)." Doesn't work (just reduce slightly the problem" If I print SQUARE o RECTANGULAR shapes all is perfect, no over extrusion no nothing, simply perfect, but once the model make geometric changes the lines appear In another forum they said that is CURA related so change slicer, didn't test it yet; any updates or solves..??
Victor Galvez
<pla><creality-ender-5><layer-shifting><temperature>
Horizontal lines on feature/geometry/density change
GmodCake
# Horizontal lines on feature/geometry/density change

(Asked by: username_0 on 2021-01-18)

I've had an Ender 5 Plus for a few weeks now. It's printing great and I've got my tuning pretty good at the moment. I've noticed some horizontal inconsistencies matching feature/geometry changes. It seems to be associated with maybe layer time(?) I only have a picture from two models, but the problem will appear in other places on different models, always matching some change in the layers.

The problem is consistent all around the model and changes position with different prints, so I know it's not a mechanical problem. Say I printed a 2x2 cm tower 20 cm tall, it will not have any of these imperfections because every layer is identical.

I highly suspect the layer time/temperature change, but I don't know how to fix this, I'm a bit stumped. They both were printed at 200 °C and I'm trying a new one at 210 °C (best temperature with the spool I have) and it has the same problem. All three models are from the same spool of PLA.

Also, I use Cura with mostly default settings for the Ender 5+.

Here are the pictures :

I tried to highlight the idea, but every line matches with some change in the model
[![Model 1](https://i.sstatic.net/EwjN7.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/EwjN7.jpg)

On the benchy it's harder to see, but the hull line match with the solid floor of the model, and the top ones match with the top window sill starting.

[![Benchy](https://i.sstatic.net/STS4C.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/STS4C.jpg)

**Tags:** pla, creality-ender-5, layer-shifting, temperature

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I still struggle with some of it. I've just upgraded to a 32 bit board with TMC2209 and now noticed a potential wobble in my lead screw (not linked with artifact in the post tho). So I'll fix this this week and come back to this problem which I think is due to the infill overlap pulling on outer walls while cooling. Sorry for going MIA  
> **username_1**: I have exactly the same problem: " try print from outside to inside (outer walls > inner walls > infill). Then try to reduce "Flow" until you see no over extrusion (or even small gaps in the surface)." Doesn't work (just reduce slightly the problem" If I print SQUARE o RECTANGULAR shapes all is perfect, no over extrusion no nothing, simply perfect, but once the model make geometric changes the lines appear In another forum they said that is CURA related so change slicer, didn't test it yet; any updates or solves..??  

---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2021-01-18. Score: 1

This is varying underextrusion due to loss of material to oozing in the interior of the model.

When printing the infill pattern, the nozzle doesn't follow a single continuous extrusion path, but moves from the end of one path to the beginning of the next, and under Cura defaults, *does this without retracting the filament*. This causes unpredictable amounts to ooze out during travel from one to the next, thereby desynchronizing the planned/intended amount of material extruded so far and the actual amount. This means, when the next outer-wall extrusion starts, there's an unpredictable deficiency between the amount of material at the nozzle to extrude, and the amount the slicer intended to extrude. The result is what you're seeing.

To fix it, you need to eliminate oozing, not just outside the model where it appears as visible stringing, but inside too. Either disable "Combing" entirely in Cura, or set "Max Comb Distance With No Retract" to something very low (0.8 mm or less). Also set "Minimum Extrusion Distance Window" to 0 to ensure Cura doesn't skip retractions for other reasons.

You may also want to play with extrusion length and speed. Too short or too long can be bad; 5-7 mm is the reasonable range for PLA with a bowden. Higher speed generally helps too; the printer should be able to handle 50 mm/s or faster.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I don't even have the slightest form of stringing or oozing on any of my prints actually. I'm not quite sure about this theory  
> **username_2**: How do you know you don't have it *inside* them? Have you watched closely during the print?  
> **username_0**: Yeah I did, everything is surprisingly consistent except for this  
> **username_3**: Can't the issue be related to some form of hysteresis? Not posted as an answer, just a genuine thought. The printer is decent, but not of super quality (carriages on aluminum extrusion profiles, belts not straight, etc.). These ridges are often seen when the geometry changes, so that a different path is followed by the print head causing it to result in a few tenths of a mm difference with respect to the previous layers?. My custom Pursa i3 printer has this also, but my Hypercube CoreXY does not (nor does my Ultimaker 3E).  
> **username_2**: These don't even look like tenths of a mm but hundredths, maybe 0.08-0.10 mm at most. Positional hysteresis seems like a possibility but I've fought with this type of issue a lot including where it's caused structural weakness, and it seems to be extrusion related. Maybe hysteresis of the Bowden tube or excess flow where extrusions prior are overhanging and have less backpressure.  
> **username_4**: This seems a clearly wrong answer. How can oozing affect the WHOLE perimeter, as shown in the photos?  
> **username_2**: @username_4: Because when the nozzle isn't properly primed after starting the perimeter, you don't just get a gap in extrusion then a normal perimeter. It will flow, just at a lower rate, until reaching an equilibrium where it's primed again.  
> **username_4**: Still, it happens with every slicer, with/without retract, with/without combing, bowden/direct drive (where oozing and retractions are basically painless), ... Since you are a more advanced user, I really recommend reading the link I posted and giving a quick look to the Discord server/channel I mentioned.  
> **username_4**: By the way, printers with linear/pressure advance enabled should automatically reduce nozzle pressure before travel move, since during the travel move no filament is being extruded (a retraction is not required to trigger compensation for nozzle pressure). And still the issue of the hull line appears.  
> **username_2**: @username_4: That only works with direct drive. With bowden, the spring model LA/PA use is insufficient to represent the behavior of the bowden tube and filament over such a long distance, and while it will improve things so that there's less pressure, you will still have significant residual pressure and oozing unless you choose a K factor so high that your corners start to disappear inward.  
> **username_4**: But it happens as well with direct drive. Moreover, if that were the cause, it would disappear on direct drive after maybe 1 mm of filament or likely less, while that is definitely appearing even on long and complex perimeters.  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2022-08-15. Score: 0

The issue with the "[hull line](https://help.prusa3d.com/article/the-benchy-hull-line_124745)" is known. It depends on the fact that the material shrinks after extrusion and faster layers give less time to the previous layer to shrink, so they appear continuous, while slower layers take more time, so the previous layer has more time to shrink and there will be a visible change in the outer dimensions.

So, larger layers are the slower ones. You can increase the temperature a bit, so that it will take more time to cool down to the shrinkage temperatures, you can print faster, you can increase chamber temperature to have more time before shrinkage, or you can cool more the part so that no matter the current layer time, the previous one will always be already shrunk.

In the Polymaker Discord server there is a channel about the "hull line". You can find an invitation to the server and check there.


---

### Answer by username_5 on 2021-01-19. Score: 0

If this matches the horizontal planes - like "solid floor" than I would advice to check overlap settings. My suspicion is slight overextrusion, which might be the reason of many small horizontal differences. Using 3 mm filament I often suffer of similar inconsistencies, until I find proper flowrate to avoid overextrusion. Adding first to second, the solid plane will push walls more to sides.

Do you print "Infill Before Walls" (Cura setting)? You may try to disable this checkbox and observe if the result persisted. Also you may enable "Outer Before Inner Walls" - to ensure, that outer wall is printed first with least interference (though some other issues may appear after travel, layer change, etc.).

* So try print from outside to inside (outer walls > inner walls > infill).
* Then try to reduce "Flow" until you see no overextrusion (or even small gaps in the surface).
* Finally revert these settings (infill > inner > outer) and check again.

> **Comments:**
> **username_4**: You can reduce the issue with less overlap, but the issue is due to shrinkage. Some tests were performed, see my answer  

---

