Answers: <p>This is opinionated I feel. But for me I think the relation between the 2 is actually a massive mistake made by a lot of companies. There are a ton of software-systems hybrid jobs out there, and I've worked both ends of the spectrum, and in between. DevOps is a buzzword and it's new and shiny, so everything that falls in that realm is instantly deemed DevOps. I would argue that the same description you might give for a Production Engineer would sound exactly like what most people think DevOps is, when in reality DevOps(beware of opinions) is providing tooling for development to leverage and deliver to infrastructure. You are developing the operations of software shipping to and running on a platform. This makes a very diverse role, and that's why I think DevOps is more so a position than a profession. I consider myself a Software Engineer, but I understand the systems side of things very well so I apply my profession to a specialty. While I think, and have seen, that applied inversely, people who used to be sysadmins with knowledge of development and development processes.</p>
  
  <p>I think a production engineer is similar loosely in the realm of work that is being done, but ultimately DevOps delivers solutions to and shapes the way the Development team works. Where as a production engineer is likely a systems software engineer who writes software to support infrastructure. They are writing software services which run on infrastructure in support of other services and not like DevOps might write Infrastructure as Code which is usually driving some sort of systems automation(puppet, chef, terraform, etc).</p>
  
Answers: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers: 2018-06-25T04:00:45.983Z
Answers: 2018-07-25T18:34:30.380Z
Answers: 2018-07-25T18:34:30.380Z
Answers: tsturzl
Answers: <p>According to Facebook</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>Production Engineering at Facebook is a hybrid between software and
    systems engineering; it keeps Facebook running smoothly and scaling
    efficiently. The Production Engineering team works within Facebook’s
    product and infrastructure teams to make sure our services are
    reliable and scalable. The team writes code and debugs hard problems
    in live production that impact more than 2 billion people around the
    world. From backend services like our Hadoop data warehouses, to
    frontend services like News Feed, to infrastructure components like
    our caching infrastructure, load balancing and deployment systems, the
    Production Engineering team keeps Facebook running.</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>as <em>team works within product and infrastructure</em> meaning it works along with developers and operations.</p>
  
Answers: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers: 2018-07-11T01:00:43.467Z
Answers: This only addresses half the question. This doesn't describe what DevOps is and how they compare.
Answers: tsturzl
Answers: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers: 2018-06-22T13:05:41.470Z
Answers: 2018-06-22T15:16:15.603Z
Answers: 2018-06-22T15:16:15.603Z
Answers: oryades
Body: <p>Production engineering: "Production engineering is a combination of manufacturing technology, engineering sciences with management science." (Wikipedia)</p>
  
  <p>Is there any relationship to/with DevOps?</p>
  
  <p>To avoid an opinionated discussion, please establish, formalize with facts and use references in your answers.</p>
  
Comments: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments: 2018-06-22T21:21:46.657Z
Comments: "To avoid an opiniated discussion, please establish, formalize with facts and use references in your answers." sorry, no. If I am only allowed to post if I find those facts on the internet first, then I respectfully ask you to look for them yourself... that would also be much faster for you, very likely?
Comments: AnoE
Comments: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments: 2018-06-23T11:18:53.020Z
Comments: I have been looking for longer time. The answer below regarding facebook is helpful (have to accept this as reference to a company arlt least). Referencing own experience does not require googling.
Comments: Ta Mu
Comments: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments: 2018-06-23T11:50:14.253Z
Comments: How can "own experience" factor into "relationship between production engineering and DevOps"? The question, as stated now, is more applicable to definitions, not experience. Wikipedia, especially the rest of their page on it, sounds *very* far away from DevOps, unless you simply mean "build a production facility = dev", "keep the facility running = ops", which is kind of obvious (and still very unconcrete; I would only call it "relationship" in the vaguest sense). Calling Facebook servers a "production engineering" topic seems very weird to me indeed; that's just plain operations.
Comments: AnoE
Comments: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments: 2018-06-23T21:20:40.293Z
Comments: @AnoE I read it as a “I’m not asking for opinions, please don’t close my question”. ie standard Stack Exchange stuff. People who know what to search for can find the answer much faster than those who are asking the question.
Comments: Tim Malone
Comments: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments: 2018-06-23T21:49:33.223Z
Comments: So, if there should turn out to be no relationship, how would one "formalize with facts and use references"? I'm trying to help OP by pointing out that there's a problem with his question - he might want to make the question more clear, specific, and especially not in a "yes/no" format as it is now.
Comments: AnoE
Tags: <methodology>
Title: Is there any relationship between "production engineering" and DevOps?
UserDisplayName: Ta Mu
ThreadText: # Is there any relationship between "production engineering" and DevOps?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2018-06-22)
  
  Production engineering: "Production engineering is a combination of manufacturing technology, engineering sciences with management science." (Wikipedia)
  
  Is there any relationship to/with DevOps?
  
  To avoid an opinionated discussion, please establish, formalize with facts and use references in your answers.
  
  **Tags:** methodology
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: "To avoid an opiniated discussion, please establish, formalize with facts and use references in your answers." sorry, no. If I am only allowed to post if I find those facts on the internet first, then I respectfully ask you to look for them yourself... that would also be much faster for you, very likely?  
  > **username_0**: I have been looking for longer time. The answer below regarding facebook is helpful (have to accept this as reference to a company arlt least). Referencing own experience does not require googling.  
  > **username_1**: How can "own experience" factor into "relationship between production engineering and DevOps"? The question, as stated now, is more applicable to definitions, not experience. Wikipedia, especially the rest of their page on it, sounds *very* far away from DevOps, unless you simply mean "build a production facility = dev", "keep the facility running = ops", which is kind of obvious (and still very unconcrete; I would only call it "relationship" in the vaguest sense). Calling Facebook servers a "production engineering" topic seems very weird to me indeed; that's just plain operations.  
  > **username_2**: @username_1 I read it as a “I’m not asking for opinions, please don’t close my question”. ie standard Stack Exchange stuff. People who know what to search for can find the answer much faster than those who are asking the question.  
  > **username_1**: So, if there should turn out to be no relationship, how would one "formalize with facts and use references"? I'm trying to help OP by pointing out that there's a problem with his question - he might want to make the question more clear, specific, and especially not in a "yes/no" format as it is now.  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_3 on 2018-06-25. Score: 1 | Accepted answer
  
  This is opinionated I feel. But for me I think the relation between the 2 is actually a massive mistake made by a lot of companies. There are a ton of software-systems hybrid jobs out there, and I've worked both ends of the spectrum, and in between. DevOps is a buzzword and it's new and shiny, so everything that falls in that realm is instantly deemed DevOps. I would argue that the same description you might give for a Production Engineer would sound exactly like what most people think DevOps is, when in reality DevOps(beware of opinions) is providing tooling for development to leverage and deliver to infrastructure. You are developing the operations of software shipping to and running on a platform. This makes a very diverse role, and that's why I think DevOps is more so a position than a profession. I consider myself a Software Engineer, but I understand the systems side of things very well so I apply my profession to a specialty. While I think, and have seen, that applied inversely, people who used to be sysadmins with knowledge of development and development processes.
  
  I think a production engineer is similar loosely in the realm of work that is being done, but ultimately DevOps delivers solutions to and shapes the way the Development team works. Where as a production engineer is likely a systems software engineer who writes software to support infrastructure. They are writing software services which run on infrastructure in support of other services and not like DevOps might write Infrastructure as Code which is usually driving some sort of systems automation(puppet, chef, terraform, etc).
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_4 on 2018-06-22. Score: 2
  
  According to Facebook
  
  > Production Engineering at Facebook is a hybrid between software and
  > systems engineering; it keeps Facebook running smoothly and scaling
  > efficiently. The Production Engineering team works within Facebook’s
  > product and infrastructure teams to make sure our services are
  > reliable and scalable. The team writes code and debugs hard problems
  > in live production that impact more than 2 billion people around the
  > world. From backend services like our Hadoop data warehouses, to
  > frontend services like News Feed, to infrastructure components like
  > our caching infrastructure, load balancing and deployment systems, the
  > Production Engineering team keeps Facebook running.
  
  as *team works within product and infrastructure* meaning it works along with developers and operations.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_3**: This only addresses half the question. This doesn't describe what DevOps is and how they compare.  
  
  ---
  
  