Answers.Body: <p>The fool's mate, if white recognizes it, will put black at a severe disadvantage, of the checkmate kind.</p>
  
  <pre><code>[White "Mater"]
  [Black "Fool"]
  [FEN "..."]
  
  1. e4 f6 2. Nc3 g5 3. Qh5#
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>Any variation of this where the black King's diagonal is wide open will suffice. The same can also happen to white, but you asked about Openings for black, if you consider this an opening.</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T21:21:41.310Z
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Answers.UserDisplayName: MDMoore313
Answers.Body: <p>There are no common openings that are considered lost for Black with best play. Katerina's comment was an exaggeration (at least according to the opinions of modern chess players). The most common opening that I can think of that is considered basically losing is Damiano's Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6), and pretty much no one plays that except as a joke.</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T13:40:26.583Z
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Answers.UserDisplayName: dfan
Answers.Body: <p>One bad opening that usually causes Black to lose is 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6.</p>
  
  <p>White can play 3. NxP!, and if Black captures the N, he succumbs to 4. Qh5 ch Pg6 5. Qxe5 ch forking king and rook.</p>
  
  <p>More often, Black ends up losing his e pawn, and while he can get it back, his development will be crippled while he is doing so.</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T18:43:37.757Z
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Tom Au
Answers.Body: <p>Looking at Fritz upon White's first move, the first move gives White a slight advantage...but not an advantage that leaves Black in a position where Black would lose unless White makes a mistake - if both play perfectly, it will be a draw. If an opening is so bad that it leaves Black at a loss unless White blunders, it wouldn't be an opening that anyone would play, especially these days with such fine tunes computerized analysis of opening and opening theory. I play: Alekhine against e4, Benko Gambit against d4, and as white...right now, Dunst or Larsen or Kings Indian Attack....don't know my lines for all the potential e4 possibilities yet.</p>
  
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Premise
Answers.Body: <p>Your question is somewhat hard to answer, because it depends on what you consider "an opening" to be.</p>
  
  <p>Obviously, there are openings where black loses -- consider the typical Scholar's Mate, 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nc6 3.Qh5 Nf6 4.Qxf7#.</p>
  
  <p>But, you will probably think, nobody with any knowledge of the game will play like that! And that's reasonable. But it is an opening, isn't it?</p>
  
  <p>And if you mean "are there any <em>commonly played, theoretical</em> openings where Black loses?" then there are very few indeed -- after all, why would black play such an opening? Once some line is refuted, almost everybody stops playing it.</p>
  
  <p>Katerina said:</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>Ultimately, a lot of openings in chess will result in black losing, if both players play perfectly. It might not be your fault, just that black starts off one tempo behind.</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>I don't agree with that at all. Chess is considered by most people to be a draw at best play, and commonly played openings aren't losing. They may be slightly worse, but that's not the same as losing, not even with perfect play -- it just means that black will have to defend most of the game without much chance of winning himself.</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T13:57:43.253Z
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Answers.UserDisplayName: RemcoGerlich
Body: <p>Based on <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/4763/what-to-do-after-losing-a-game/4773?noredirect=1#comment5511_4773">this comment</a> I'd like to know which openings, if any, are considered unplayable (i.e. lost) for black? My own understanding is that in some opening lines it's harder for black to equalise, but are there any that are completely lost, assuming that white plays perfectly?</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T12:16:25.667Z
Comments.Text: Maybe not, but it is interesting to me. @Katerina said: "Ultimately, a lot of openings in chess will result in black losing, if both players play perfectly". I want to know whether this is true or not and, if it is true, for which openings.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ralph
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T12:21:27.873Z
Comments.Text: What about that opening where Black drops his queen on move 3?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Tony Ennis
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T12:36:48.723Z
Comments.Text: @TonyEnnis "...if both players play perfectly". Dropping your queen on move 3 doesn't meet that condition.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ralph
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T12:37:28.867Z
Comments.Text: @RauanSagit How would you suggest I reword the question?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ralph
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T12:52:54.583Z
Comments.Text: @RauanSagit Well, perhaps both questions are interesting. Why don't _you_ ask the question you were thinking of? I can always close this question if enough people share your view.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ralph
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T13:34:47.883Z
Comments.Text: There are no common openings that are considered lost for Black with best play. Katerina's comment was an exaggeration (at least according to the opinions of modern chess players). The most common opening that I can think of that is considered basically losing is Damiano's Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6), and pretty much no one plays that except as a joke.
Comments.UserDisplayName: dfan
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T13:38:29.017Z
Comments.Text: @dfan Why not make this an answer instead of a comment?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ralph
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T13:41:20.900Z
Comments.Text: @Ralph All the action was in the comments :) I've made it an answer.
Comments.UserDisplayName: dfan
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Comments.CreationDate: 2014-02-20T16:52:12.293Z
Comments.Text: I don't think there are any openings like this, no-one would play them.
Comments.UserDisplayName: rlms
Tags: <opening><theory>
Title: Do any openings result in a lost game for black?
ThreadText: # Do any openings result in a lost game for black?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2014-02-20)
  
  Based on [this comment](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/4763/what-to-do-after-losing-a-game/4773?noredirect=1#comment5511_4773) I'd like to know which openings, if any, are considered unplayable (i.e. lost) for black? My own understanding is that in some opening lines it's harder for black to equalise, but are there any that are completely lost, assuming that white plays perfectly?
  
  **Tags:** opening, theory
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: Maybe not, but it is interesting to me. @Katerina said: "Ultimately, a lot of openings in chess will result in black losing, if both players play perfectly". I want to know whether this is true or not and, if it is true, for which openings.  
  > **username_1**: What about that opening where Black drops his queen on move 3?  
  > **username_0**: @username_1 "...if both players play perfectly". Dropping your queen on move 3 doesn't meet that condition.  
  > **username_0**: @RauanSagit How would you suggest I reword the question?  
  > **username_0**: @RauanSagit Well, perhaps both questions are interesting. Why don't _you_ ask the question you were thinking of? I can always close this question if enough people share your view.  
  > **username_2**: There are no common openings that are considered lost for Black with best play. Katerina's comment was an exaggeration (at least according to the opinions of modern chess players). The most common opening that I can think of that is considered basically losing is Damiano's Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6), and pretty much no one plays that except as a joke.  
  > **username_0**: @username_2 Why not make this an answer instead of a comment?  
  > **username_2**: @username_0 All the action was in the comments :) I've made it an answer.  
  > **username_3**: I don't think there are any openings like this, no-one would play them.  
  
  ---
  
  ## 5 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_7 on 2014-02-20. Score: 4 | Accepted answer
  
  Your question is somewhat hard to answer, because it depends on what you consider "an opening" to be.
  
  Obviously, there are openings where black loses -- consider the typical Scholar's Mate, 1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nc6 3.Qh5 Nf6 4.Qxf7#.
  
  But, you will probably think, nobody with any knowledge of the game will play like that! And that's reasonable. But it is an opening, isn't it?
  
  And if you mean "are there any *commonly played, theoretical* openings where Black loses?" then there are very few indeed -- after all, why would black play such an opening? Once some line is refuted, almost everybody stops playing it.
  
  Katerina said:
  
  > Ultimately, a lot of openings in chess will result in black losing, if both players play perfectly. It might not be your fault, just that black starts off one tempo behind.
  
  I don't agree with that at all. Chess is considered by most people to be a draw at best play, and commonly played openings aren't losing. They may be slightly worse, but that's not the same as losing, not even with perfect play -- it just means that black will have to defend most of the game without much chance of winning himself.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_4 on 2014-02-20. Score: 2
  
  The fool's mate, if white recognizes it, will put black at a severe disadvantage, of the checkmate kind.
  
  ```
  [White "Mater"]
  [Black "Fool"]
  [FEN "..."]
  
  1. e4 f6 2. Nc3 g5 3. Qh5#
  
  ```
  
  Any variation of this where the black King's diagonal is wide open will suffice. The same can also happen to white, but you asked about Openings for black, if you consider this an opening.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2014-02-20. Score: 1
  
  There are no common openings that are considered lost for Black with best play. Katerina's comment was an exaggeration (at least according to the opinions of modern chess players). The most common opening that I can think of that is considered basically losing is Damiano's Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6), and pretty much no one plays that except as a joke.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_5 on 2014-02-20. Score: 0
  
  One bad opening that usually causes Black to lose is 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6.
  
  White can play 3. NxP!, and if Black captures the N, he succumbs to 4. Qh5 ch Pg6 5. Qxe5 ch forking king and rook.
  
  More often, Black ends up losing his e pawn, and while he can get it back, his development will be crippled while he is doing so.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_6 on 2014-02-26. Score: 0
  
  Looking at Fritz upon White's first move, the first move gives White a slight advantage...but not an advantage that leaves Black in a position where Black would lose unless White makes a mistake - if both play perfectly, it will be a draw. If an opening is so bad that it leaves Black at a loss unless White blunders, it wouldn't be an opening that anyone would play, especially these days with such fine tunes computerized analysis of opening and opening theory. I play: Alekhine against e4, Benko Gambit against d4, and as white...right now, Dunst or Larsen or Kings Indian Attack....don't know my lines for all the potential e4 possibilities yet.
  
  
  ---
  
  