Answers.Body: <p>Names for openings differentiate between different moves and, crucially, different positions on the chess board. The same moves played by each side but in two different orders resulting in the same position result in the same opening by transposition.</p>
  <p>However different moves resulting in different positions give rise to different openings. It makes no sense to call two entirely different positions arising after the first two moves by the same name. To do so defeats the object of naming.</p>
  <p>What you do get is family names where similar moves are made which, although they result in entirely different positions with different middlegame plans, have a common feature. An example would be the Classical Dutch (f5 plus e6), Leningrad Dutch (f5, d6 and no e6) and Stonewall Dutch (f5 plus d5).</p>
  <p>Perhaps you should start playing the &quot;Allure Bongcloud&quot; as distinct from the &quot;Classical Bongcloud&quot;?</p>
  <pre><code>[Title &quot;Classical Bongcloud&quot;]
  [Startply &quot;3&quot;]
  
  [fen &quot;&quot;]
  1. e4 e5 2. Ke2
  </code></pre>
  <p>and</p>
  <pre><code>[title &quot;Allure Bongcloud&quot;]
  [Startply &quot;3&quot;]
  
  [fen &quot;&quot;]
  1. d4 d5 2. Kd2
  </code></pre>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-10-09T12:31:55.427Z
Answers.Text: Quite. An opening is defined by the moves and positions they reach. Certain openings may be grouped together due to similar philosophies or structures, such as "Indian" or "Hypermodern" systems, but they are not all the same opening. I'm happy to agree that all the above subscribe to a "Bongcloud Philosophy" (in many ways), but they aren't the same opening.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Ian Bush
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-10-10T14:00:21.343Z
Answers.Text: **1. d4 d5 2. Kd2** was been [played in 2019](https://www.chess.com/game/live/3484518272).  Need proof [Allure](https://chess.stackexchange.com/users/15223/allure) played it before then.
Answers.UserDisplayName: SecretAgentMan
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-10-09T10:31:34.330Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2022-10-09T10:31:34.330Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Brian Towers
Body: <p><a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/27227/what-is-the-bongcloud-opening">What is the Bongcloud opening?</a></p>
  <p>Looking at the various jokes about the Bongcloud that people like Hikaru Nakamura and Magnus Carlsen have played, I notice they're all 1. e4 2. Ke2. Even our <a href="/questions/tagged/bongcloud" class="post-tag" title="show questions tagged &#39;bongcloud&#39;" aria-label="show questions tagged &#39;bongcloud&#39;" rel="tag" aria-labelledby="bongcloud-container">bongcloud</a> tag here on Chess.SE is 1. e4 2. Ke2.</p>
  <p>Why don't people play 1. d4 2. Kd2, or 1. f4 2. Kf2?</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-10-09T05:26:58.457Z
Comments.Text: I don’t understand. Can’t the same be  asked of the Ruy Lopez?
Comments.UserDisplayName: insipidintegrator
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-10-09T07:45:30.100Z
Comments.Text: Needs research whether 1.d4 d5 2.Kd2 was ever tried: ~2000. 1.f4 d5 2.Kf2: ~3000! Compare vs ~14000 Bongcloud on Lichess. (My answer would be, in any case: "That's how memes work.", which Rewan factually already said. Why is "Busy Stackexchange Kangaroo" no valid Advice Animal? Because noone forced the meme yet :-)
Comments.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-10-10T13:58:43.400Z
Comments.Text: **1. d4 d5 2. Kd2** has been played (see [game](https://www.chess.com/game/live/3484518272) from 2019).
Comments.UserDisplayName: SecretAgentMan
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-10-11T17:39:27.500Z
Comments.Text: This surely is not a good opening for white. It is similar to the Steinitz Gambit , but worse than it.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Peter
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-10-12T15:13:44.360Z
Comments.Text: To ask why people open with Bongcloud (and not so often the named variants) is an opinion-based question (addressing what players might be thinking and what their preferences might be).  More factual and citable might be to ask how well it performs statistically in contrast to the variants and/or other openings (thus permitting objectively correct answers).
Comments.UserDisplayName: Charles Rockafellor
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-10-13T01:13:19.727Z
Comments.Text: Because 1. e4 2. Ke2 is the most ridiculous option
Comments.UserDisplayName: Michael West
Tags: <opening><bongcloud>
Title: Why do people play 1. e4 2. Ke2 but not 1. d4 2. Kd2 or 1. f4 2. Kf2?
ThreadText: # Why do people play 1. e4 2. Ke2 but not 1. d4 2. Kd2 or 1. f4 2. Kf2?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2022-10-08)
  
  [What is the Bongcloud opening?](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/27227/what-is-the-bongcloud-opening)
  
  Looking at the various jokes about the Bongcloud that people like Hikaru Nakamura and Magnus Carlsen have played, I notice they're all 1. e4 2. Ke2. Even our [bongcloud](/questions/tagged/bongcloud "show questions tagged 'bongcloud'") tag here on Chess.SE is 1. e4 2. Ke2.
  
  Why don't people play 1. d4 2. Kd2, or 1. f4 2. Kf2?
  
  **Tags:** opening, bongcloud
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: I don’t understand. Can’t the same be  asked of the Ruy Lopez?  
  > **username_2**: Needs research whether 1.d4 d5 2.Kd2 was ever tried: ~2000. 1.f4 d5 2.Kf2: ~3000! Compare vs ~14000 Bongcloud on Lichess. (My answer would be, in any case: "That's how memes work.", which Rewan factually already said. Why is "Busy Stackexchange Kangaroo" no valid Advice Animal? Because noone forced the meme yet :-)  
  > **username_3**: **1. d4 d5 2. Kd2** has been played (see [game](https://www.chess.com/game/live/3484518272) from 2019).  
  > **username_4**: This surely is not a good opening for white. It is similar to the Steinitz Gambit , but worse than it.  
  > **username_5**: To ask why people open with Bongcloud (and not so often the named variants) is an opinion-based question (addressing what players might be thinking and what their preferences might be).  More factual and citable might be to ask how well it performs statistically in contrast to the variants and/or other openings (thus permitting objectively correct answers).  
  > **username_6**: Because 1. e4 2. Ke2 is the most ridiculous option  
  
  ---
  
  ## 1 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_7 on 2022-10-09. Score: 6
  
  Names for openings differentiate between different moves and, crucially, different positions on the chess board. The same moves played by each side but in two different orders resulting in the same position result in the same opening by transposition.
  
  However different moves resulting in different positions give rise to different openings. It makes no sense to call two entirely different positions arising after the first two moves by the same name. To do so defeats the object of naming.
  
  What you do get is family names where similar moves are made which, although they result in entirely different positions with different middlegame plans, have a common feature. An example would be the Classical Dutch (f5 plus e6), Leningrad Dutch (f5, d6 and no e6) and Stonewall Dutch (f5 plus d5).
  
  Perhaps you should start playing the "username_0 Bongcloud" as distinct from the "Classical Bongcloud"?
  
  ```
  [Title "Classical Bongcloud"]
  [Startply "3"]
  
  [fen ""]
  1. e4 e5 2. Ke2
  
  ```
  
  and
  
  ```
  [title "username_0 Bongcloud"]
  [Startply "3"]
  
  [fen ""]
  1. d4 d5 2. Kd2
  
  ```
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_8**: Quite. An opening is defined by the moves and positions they reach. Certain openings may be grouped together due to similar philosophies or structures, such as "Indian" or "Hypermodern" systems, but they are not all the same opening. I'm happy to agree that all the above subscribe to a "Bongcloud Philosophy" (in many ways), but they aren't the same opening.  
  > **username_3**: **1. d4 d5 2. Kd2** was been [played in 2019](https://www.chess.com/game/live/3484518272).  Need proof [username_0](https://chess.stackexchange.com/users/15223/username_0) played it before then.  
  
  ---
  
  