Answers.Body: <p>This reminds me of this <a href="http://www.chess.com/article/view/my-favorite-classic-games-part-1" rel="nofollow">article</a> by Jeremy Silman. The position you discuss is difficult to evaluate, as both parties have assets and drawbacks.</p>
  
  <p>The first thing to notice is that the position is closed. Thus, if it doesn't open up, certainly black is not standing worse because of the two knights. However, these knights are severely restricted, and if you play:</p>
  
  <pre><code>[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
  
  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bb4 5.O-O O-O 6.d3 d6 7.Bg5 Bxc3 8.bxc3 Qe7 9.Re1 Nd8 10.d4 Ne6 11.Bc1 c5 12.Bf1 Rd8 13.d5 Nf8 14.c4 Ng6!? 15. g3!
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>This last move deprives the knights of many good squares, and they do not seem so useful now. Moreover, we shall not forget that white already possesses the bishop pair, and any plans involving <code>b5</code> will open the position for the <code>Bf1</code> to come to life. Other plans for white to consider at this point are <code>Rab1</code> and at some point <code>f4</code> to blast the position open. Black needs to find active play to avoid getting excessively pressured by the bishops. This can go via <code>h6-g5</code>, since all black pieces are on the kingside and it makes sense to start an attack there (plus, has the advantage of discouraging <code>f4</code> and keeping the position closed).</p>
  
  <p>Now that we have outlined the main characteristics of the position, to your questions:</p>
  
  <ol>
  <li>Your analysis is correct as long as the position remains closed: black has more or less equalized. However, he cannot sit and wait, he needs active play to avoid getting too much pressure on the <code>b7</code> pawn and having the position uncontrolled when opened.</li>
  <li>The move <code>11. ... c5</code> is correct, but the pawn break <code>b5</code> is probably not the move you are looking for, since it opens files for both the <code>Bf1</code> and the <code>Rb1</code>, that will inevitable end up there.</li>
  <li>The GM Akiba Rubinstein followed a very original play, by keeping a knight and the position closed, he benefited from the fact that the <code>c5</code> square is extremely weak, and a knight there is not easily dislodged. You can learn more about it on the above referenced article, but in general, black does <em>not</em> want to open the position.</li>
  <li>The position as it is is basically equal, black might have a slight advantage concerning the activity of the minor pieces (those two nice knights) but white has this same advantage about the major pieces, with the semi-open <code>b</code>file. It is up to the players to choose a good plan and implement it correctly, but white is easier to play from a practical point of view.</li>
  </ol>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2014-09-21T13:31:11.640Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2014-09-21T13:40:11.113Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2014-09-21T13:40:11.113Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Pablo S. Ocal
Answers.Body: <p>ad 1: Partially, yes. Ng6 is a good move but it will get surely met by white's g3. That's natural. Still u want to move your knight from f8, this square is for your rook.</p>
  
  <p>ad 2: Of course c5 was a good move. You played the opening correctly!</p>
  
  <p>ad 3: Yes, the natural plan is to prepare f5 break. Something like Ng6, Rf8, Nh7, f5</p>
  
  <p>ad 4: I would say rather equals. White has pair of bishops but c-pawns might be an issue later on. Good position to evaluate players' strength. Good luck!</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2014-09-21T12:12:03.333Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2014-09-21T12:12:03.333Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Pijotrek
Body: <p>Continuing my question on double <code>c</code>-pawn.I am studying on this topic and I came to this position.</p>
  
  <pre><code>[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
  
  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bb4 5.O-O O-O 6.d3 d6 7.Bg5 Bxc3 8.bxc3 Qe7 9.Re1 Nd8 10.d4 Ne6 11.Bc1 c5 12.Bf1 Rd8 13.d5 Nf8 14.c4 
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>In my opinion, black's position is better here due to the double knights. However, I couldn't find any concrete continuation in this position for black. </p>
  
  <ol>
  <li><p><code>Ng6-Nh4-Nf4</code> seems intuitive but then, I don't want to give up knights easily.</p></li>
  <li><p>It's hard to exploit the double <code>c</code>-pawns.</p></li>
  <li><p><code>Bg4</code> swapping the knight for bishop seems appealing but I don't know if this is good as this gives white double bishop advantage in endgame.</p></li>
  </ol>
  
  <p><strong>My question is that</strong>  </p>
  
  <ol>
  <li><p>Is my analysis true?</p></li>
  <li><p>Is <code>11. ...c5</code>,the pawn break good (or are there any mistakes in the previous move)?</p></li>
  <li><p>Are there any other ways to break this position?</p></li>
  <li><p>Who stands better here?    </p></li>
  </ol>
  
Tags: <strategy><doubled-pawn>
Title: How do I play against this kind of position with double c pawn?
ThreadText: # How do I play against this kind of position with double c pawn?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2014-09-21)
  
  Continuing my question on double `c`-pawn.I am studying on this topic and I came to this position.
  
  ```
  [FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
  
  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bb4 5.O-O O-O 6.d3 d6 7.Bg5 Bxc3 8.bxc3 Qe7 9.Re1 Nd8 10.d4 Ne6 11.Bc1 c5 12.Bf1 Rd8 13.d5 Nf8 14.c4 
  
  ```
  
  In my opinion, black's position is better here due to the double knights. However, I couldn't find any concrete continuation in this position for black.
  
  1. `Ng6-Nh4-Nf4` seems intuitive but then, I don't want to give up knights easily.
  2. It's hard to exploit the double `c`-pawns.
  3. `Bg4` swapping the knight for bishop seems appealing but I don't know if this is good as this gives white double bishop advantage in endgame.
  
  **My question is that**
  
  1. Is my analysis true?
  2. Is `11. ...c5`,the pawn break good (or are there any mistakes in the previous move)?
  3. Are there any other ways to break this position?
  4. Who stands better here?
  
  **Tags:** strategy, doubled-pawn
  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2014-09-21. Score: 2 | Accepted answer
  
  This reminds me of this [article](http://www.chess.com/article/view/my-favorite-classic-games-part-1) by Jeremy Silman. The position you discuss is difficult to evaluate, as both parties have assets and drawbacks.
  
  The first thing to notice is that the position is closed. Thus, if it doesn't open up, certainly black is not standing worse because of the two knights. However, these knights are severely restricted, and if you play:
  
  ```
  [FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
  
  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bb5 Bb4 5.O-O O-O 6.d3 d6 7.Bg5 Bxc3 8.bxc3 Qe7 9.Re1 Nd8 10.d4 Ne6 11.Bc1 c5 12.Bf1 Rd8 13.d5 Nf8 14.c4 Ng6!? 15. g3!
  
  ```
  
  This last move deprives the knights of many good squares, and they do not seem so useful now. Moreover, we shall not forget that white already possesses the bishop pair, and any plans involving `b5` will open the position for the `Bf1` to come to life. Other plans for white to consider at this point are `Rab1` and at some point `f4` to blast the position open. Black needs to find active play to avoid getting excessively pressured by the bishops. This can go via `h6-g5`, since all black pieces are on the kingside and it makes sense to start an attack there (plus, has the advantage of discouraging `f4` and keeping the position closed).
  
  Now that we have outlined the main characteristics of the position, to your questions:
  
  1. Your analysis is correct as long as the position remains closed: black has more or less equalized. However, he cannot sit and wait, he needs active play to avoid getting too much pressure on the `b7` pawn and having the position uncontrolled when opened.
  2. The move `11. ... c5` is correct, but the pawn break `b5` is probably not the move you are looking for, since it opens files for both the `Bf1` and the `Rb1`, that will inevitable end up there.
  3. The GM Akiba Rubinstein followed a very original play, by keeping a knight and the position closed, he benefited from the fact that the `c5` square is extremely weak, and a knight there is not easily dislodged. You can learn more about it on the above referenced article, but in general, black does *not* want to open the position.
  4. The position as it is is basically equal, black might have a slight advantage concerning the activity of the minor pieces (those two nice knights) but white has this same advantage about the major pieces, with the semi-open `b`file. It is up to the players to choose a good plan and implement it correctly, but white is easier to play from a practical point of view.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2014-09-21. Score: 2
  
  ad 1: Partially, yes. Ng6 is a good move but it will get surely met by white's g3. That's natural. Still u want to move your knight from f8, this square is for your rook.
  
  ad 2: Of course c5 was a good move. You played the opening correctly!
  
  ad 3: Yes, the natural plan is to prepare f5 break. Something like Ng6, Rf8, Nh7, f5
  
  ad 4: I would say rather equals. White has pair of bishops but c-pawns might be an issue later on. Good position to evaluate players' strength. Good luck!
  
  
  ---
  
  