Answers.Body: <p><strong>Yes</strong>, this is the same position.</p>
  <p><a href="https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012018" rel="noreferrer">Fide Handbook</a>:</p>
  <blockquote>
  <p>9.2.2 Positions are considered the same if and only if the same player has the move, <strong>pieces of the same kind and colour</strong> occupy the same squares and the possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same. Thus positions are not the same if:<br />
  9.2.2.1   at the start of the sequence a pawn could have been captured en passant<br />
  9.2.2.2   a king had castling rights with a rook that has not been moved, but forfeited these after moving. The castling rights are lost only after the king or rook is moved.</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>(emphasis mine)</p>
  <p>If a queen is on f4 and a queen is on d4, this is the same as a queen on d4 and a queen on f4, whether the wooden pieces have been swapped or not.</p>
  <p>So <strong>Yes</strong>, the player on move can claim a draw (in your example, White).</p>
  <p>But <strong>No</strong>, not <em>any player</em> can claim a draw. If Black has just played ...Rf8, they are not on move and thus they are not allowed to make such a claim.</p>
  <blockquote>
  <p>9.2.1     The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by a player having the move, when the same position for at least the third time (not necessarily by a repetition of moves):<br />
  9.2.1.1   is about to appear, if he first indicate his move by writing on the paper scoresheet or entering move on the electronic scoresheet, which cannot be changed, on his scoresheet and declares to the arbiter his intention to make this move, or<br />
  9.2.1.2   has just appeared, and the player claiming the draw has the move.</p>
  </blockquote>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2024-06-28T13:58:22.167Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2024-06-28T13:58:22.167Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Evargalo
Body: <p>like for example :
  k4r2/1n3p1p/6p1/8/PP1Q1Q2/3B3P/8/7K w - - 0 1</p>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;k4r2/1n3p1p/6p1/8/PP1Q1Q2/3B3P/8/7K w - - 0 1&quot;]
  
  1. Qfe4 Rh8 2.Qf4 Rf8 3. Qfe3 Rh8 4. Qdf4 Rg8 5. Qed4 Rf8
  </code></pre>
  <p>without castling right for both king</p>
  <ol>
  <li>Qfe4 Rh8 2.Qf4 Rf8 3. Qfe3 Rh8 4. Qdf4 Rg8 5. Qed4 Rf8</li>
  </ol>
  <p>so can any player claim a draw in this situation</p>
  
Tags: <draw><threefold-repetition><fivefold-repetition>
Title: Are positions with different physical pieces on two squares but same kind and same color, considered the same?
ThreadText: # Are positions with different physical pieces on two squares but same kind and same color, considered the same?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2024-06-28)
  
  like for example :
  k4r2/1n3p1p/6p1/8/PP1Q1Q2/3B3P/8/7K w - - 0 1
  
  ```
  [FEN "k4r2/1n3p1p/6p1/8/PP1Q1Q2/3B3P/8/7K w - - 0 1"]
  
  1. Qfe4 Rh8 2.Qf4 Rf8 3. Qfe3 Rh8 4. Qdf4 Rg8 5. Qed4 Rf8
  
  ```
  
  without castling right for both king
  
  1. Qfe4 Rh8 2.Qf4 Rf8 3. Qfe3 Rh8 4. Qdf4 Rg8 5. Qed4 Rf8
  
  so can any player claim a draw in this situation
  
  **Tags:** draw, threefold-repetition, fivefold-repetition
  
  
  ---
  
  ## 1 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2024-06-28. Score: 5
  
  **Yes**, this is the same position.
  
  [Fide Handbook](https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012018):
  
  > 9.2.2 Positions are considered the same if and only if the same player has the move, **pieces of the same kind and colour** occupy the same squares and the possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the same. Thus positions are not the same if:  
  > 9.2.2.1 at the start of the sequence a pawn could have been captured en passant  
  > 9.2.2.2 a king had castling rights with a rook that has not been moved, but forfeited these after moving. The castling rights are lost only after the king or rook is moved.
  
  (emphasis mine)
  
  If a queen is on f4 and a queen is on d4, this is the same as a queen on d4 and a queen on f4, whether the wooden pieces have been swapped or not.
  
  So **Yes**, the player on move can claim a draw (in your example, White).
  
  But **No**, not *any player* can claim a draw. If Black has just played ...Rf8, they are not on move and thus they are not allowed to make such a claim.
  
  > 9.2.1 The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by a player having the move, when the same position for at least the third time (not necessarily by a repetition of moves):  
  > 9.2.1.1 is about to appear, if he first indicate his move by writing on the paper scoresheet or entering move on the electronic scoresheet, which cannot be changed, on his scoresheet and declares to the arbiter his intention to make this move, or  
  > 9.2.1.2 has just appeared, and the player claiming the draw has the move.
  
  
  ---
  
  