Answers.Body: <p>Stockfish 14+ NNUE evaluates this position as +0.5 (depth = 62, 22036k nodes/s).</p>
  <p>The principal variation (see below) leads to a <strong>theoretical draw</strong> according to the 7-piece tablebases.</p>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;8/1k6/5R2/P7/1KP4p/5P2/8/5r2 w - - 0 1&quot;]
  
  1. Rf7+ Ka6 2. Rh7 Rxf3 {Theoretical Draw according to the 7-piece tablebases} (2. Rf6+ Kb7 3. f4 h3 4. Rb6+ Kc7 5. Rh6 Rxf4 {Theoretical Draw according to the 7-piece tablebases})
  </code></pre>
  <p>Other lines suggested:<br />
  From <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/users/26234/justin-stafford">Justin Stafford</a>'s <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/33815/a-deceptively-simple-eight-piece-endgame/37484#comment53245_33815">comment</a>: 1. Rb6+ Ka7 2. Rh6 Rxf3 3. Rxh4 (<strong>theoretical draw</strong>)<br />
  From <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/users/18809/david">David</a>'s <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/a/33820/26335">answer</a>: 1. Rh6 Rxf3 (<strong>theoretical draw</strong>)</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-11-26T22:05:25.187Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2021-11-26T22:16:42.037Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2021-11-26T22:16:42.037Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: SecretAgentMan
Answers.Body: <p>No need for engine analysis, that's a win for White since that parciular a+c pawn endgame is won. White can simply trade the other two pawns with Rh6</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-11-26T22:15:43.713Z
Answers.Text: OP has asked for theoretical status.  1. Rh6 Rxf3 is indeed a theoretical draw by the 7 piece tablebases.  However, I also appreciate the practical considerations of playability, though the answer could be improved with more discussion for these considerations.
Answers.UserDisplayName: SecretAgentMan
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-01-19T10:46:36.890Z
Answers.Text: That's not true, Rh6 Rxf3 Rxh4 is a well known theoretical draw. Black defends this kind of position by putting the king on the short side (i.e. a file in this case) and then checks with the rook whenever the white king steps out from the c pawns cover.
Answers.UserDisplayName: koedem
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-01-19T11:44:33.083Z
Answers.Text: @koedem Although the position after that line is a draw, Black must play exact. If Black took your advice literally and played Ka6, Ka7, or Ka8 the next move, White would have a forced win, according to the lichess tablebase.
Answers.UserDisplayName: D M
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-01-19T12:56:48.307Z
Answers.Text: @DM yes, this was not a suggestion for specific moves, it is the general idea of how to hold this endgame. It is in fact quite difficult to defend / easy to screw up as a human.
Answers.UserDisplayName: koedem
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-01-19T10:19:11.717Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2021-01-19T10:19:11.717Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: David
Body: <p>I am in the dark about the following endgame, with white to move. May someone with FinalGen (or a powerful engine) give me a response? Is it a White win or a draw?</p>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;8/1k6/5R2/P7/1KP4p/5P2/8/5r2 w - - 0 1&quot;]
  </code></pre>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-01-19T03:03:38.417Z
Comments.Text: Not sure this is such a useful question on a question/answer site like this. Why not just check yourself with Finalgen?
Comments.UserDisplayName: koedem
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-01-19T09:02:05.543Z
Comments.Text: Unfortunately I do not have this instrument
Comments.UserDisplayName: Stefano
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-01-19T10:06:19.140Z
Comments.Text: For what its worth, my Rybka checks, and then trades pawns, calling it 2.78 at about 33 depth.. which is pretty winnish, right?  I dunno.  I can't remember but I think I don't have the endgame tablebases installed, and I bet it would just know immediately if I did.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Justin Stafford
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-01-19T10:09:52.993Z
Comments.Text: I guess I should specify, Rybka checks with Bc6... here:  1. Rb6+ Ka7 2. Rh6 Rxf3 3. Rxh4 Rf1 4. c5 Kb7 5. Kb5 Rb1+ 6. Rb4 Rg1 7. a6+ Ka7  ... still calling it 2.78 pawns ahead, at 34 depth
Comments.UserDisplayName: Justin Stafford
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-01-19T10:18:58.883Z
Comments.Text: I think White has no better than trade f against h immediately (otherwise, Black gets the P for nothing, also a draw by Syzygy), and the resulting endgame a+c is *usually* draw. Thus it is easy to assign Justin's variant even with Nalimov: 3...Rf1? loses, only draw 3...Kb7.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-01-19T10:57:57.573Z
Comments.Text: @JustinStafford I'd strongly recommend using an engine that's not as outdated as Rybka. :D Stockfish is free and by now more than 400 rating points stronger than Rybka. As for Finalgen, oh I see now that the Finalgen site is down. A quick search gave me this suggestion https://www.freesoft.org/software/hoffman/ although I have not tried this software so I can't tell if it is any good. I could also upload my local installation of Finalgen I suppose.
Comments.UserDisplayName: koedem
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-01-19T11:57:35.977Z
Comments.Text: An engine evaluation of +2.xx at depth 30+ in an 8-men endgame like that is **not** as winnish as it would be in the middlegame - essentially it reads: while White retains their 2 extra pawns plus 0.78 of positional advantage during the next 30+ plies, they won't be able to make any decisive progress (else the score would go through the roof). Maybe the engine will find a way deeper in the tree, but it's not unlikely that it won't (at least there is no straightforward one).
Comments.UserDisplayName: Annatar
Tags: <analysis><endgame><rook-endgame>
Title: A deceptively simple eight piece endgame
ThreadText: # A deceptively simple eight piece endgame
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2021-01-19)
  
  I am in the dark about the following endgame, with white to move. May someone with FinalGen (or a powerful engine) give me a response? Is it a White win or a draw?
  
  ```
  [FEN "8/1k6/5R2/P7/1KP4p/5P2/8/5r2 w - - 0 1"]
  
  ```
  
  **Tags:** analysis, endgame, rook-endgame
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Not sure this is such a useful question on a question/answer site like this. Why not just check yourself with Finalgen?  
  > **username_0**: Unfortunately I do not have this instrument  
  > **username_2**: For what its worth, my Rybka checks, and then trades pawns, calling it 2.78 at about 33 depth.. which is pretty winnish, right?  I dunno.  I can't remember but I think I don't have the endgame tablebases installed, and I bet it would just know immediately if I did.  
  > **username_2**: I guess I should specify, Rybka checks with Bc6... here:  1. Rb6+ Ka7 2. Rh6 Rxf3 3. Rxh4 Rf1 4. c5 Kb7 5. Kb5 Rb1+ 6. Rb4 Rg1 7. a6+ Ka7  ... still calling it 2.78 pawns ahead, at 34 depth  
  > **username_3**: I think White has no better than trade f against h immediately (otherwise, Black gets the P for nothing, also a draw by Syzygy), and the resulting endgame a+c is *usually* draw. Thus it is easy to assign username_2's variant even with Nalimov: 3...Rf1? loses, only draw 3...Kb7.  
  > **username_1**: @username_2 I'd strongly recommend using an engine that's not as outdated as Rybka. :D Stockfish is free and by now more than 400 rating points stronger than Rybka. As for Finalgen, oh I see now that the Finalgen site is down. A quick search gave me this suggestion https://www.freesoft.org/software/hoffman/ although I have not tried this software so I can't tell if it is any good. I could also upload my local installation of Finalgen I suppose.  
  > **username_4**: An engine evaluation of +2.xx at depth 30+ in an 8-men endgame like that is **not** as winnish as it would be in the middlegame - essentially it reads: while White retains their 2 extra pawns plus 0.78 of positional advantage during the next 30+ plies, they won't be able to make any decisive progress (else the score would go through the roof). Maybe the engine will find a way deeper in the tree, but it's not unlikely that it won't (at least there is no straightforward one).  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_5 on 2021-11-26. Score: 2
  
  Stockfish 14+ NNUE evaluates this position as +0.5 (depth = 62, 22036k nodes/s).
  
  The principal variation (see below) leads to a **theoretical draw** according to the 7-piece tablebases.
  
  ```
  [FEN "8/1k6/5R2/P7/1KP4p/5P2/8/5r2 w - - 0 1"]
  
  1. Rf7+ Ka6 2. Rh7 Rxf3 {Theoretical Draw according to the 7-piece tablebases} (2. Rf6+ Kb7 3. f4 h3 4. Rb6+ Kc7 5. Rh6 Rxf4 {Theoretical Draw according to the 7-piece tablebases})
  
  ```
  
  Other lines suggested:  
  From [username_2 username_2](https://chess.stackexchange.com/users/26234/username_2-username_2)'s [comment](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/33815/a-deceptively-simple-eight-piece-endgame/37484#comment53245_33815): 1. Rb6+ Ka7 2. Rh6 Rxf3 3. Rxh4 (**theoretical draw**)  
  From [username_6](https://chess.stackexchange.com/users/18809/username_6)'s [answer](https://chess.stackexchange.com/a/33820/26335): 1. Rh6 Rxf3 (**theoretical draw**)
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_6 on 2021-01-19. Score: -4
  
  No need for engine analysis, that's a win for White since that parciular a+c pawn endgame is won. White can simply trade the other two pawns with Rh6
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: That's not true, Rh6 Rxf3 Rxh4 is a well known theoretical draw. Black defends this kind of position by putting the king on the short side (i.e. a file in this case) and then checks with the rook whenever the white king steps out from the c pawns cover.  
  > **username_7**: @username_1 Although the position after that line is a draw, Black must play exact. If Black took your advice literally and played Ka6, Ka7, or Ka8 the next move, White would have a forced win, according to the lichess tablebase.  
  > **username_1**: @DM yes, this was not a suggestion for specific moves, it is the general idea of how to hold this endgame. It is in fact quite difficult to defend / easy to screw up as a human.  
  > **username_5**: OP has asked for theoretical status.  1. Rh6 Rxf3 is indeed a theoretical draw by the 7 piece tablebases.  However, I also appreciate the practical considerations of playability, though the answer could be improved with more discussion for these considerations.  
  
  ---
  
  