Answers.Body: <p>Three? I'm just too lazy to send you half of the SCHWALBE #3 originals! I bet the score can be pushed far higher.</p>
  <p>Romeo Bedoni, Andre Cheron, Journal de Geneve 28/06/1975, #57</p>
  <pre><code>[Title &quot;White to move&quot;]
  [FEN &quot;7n/ppp2p2/2N2Pp1/6B1/8/8/p1p2PKp/rbNk1rbR w - - 0 1&quot;]
  </code></pre>
  <p>Note that the first capturing move pair Kxf1 bxc6 was added only later to increase the move numbers. Simply drop it again to have a #56 fulfilling your needs. Also note a big defect: it doesn't matter in which order you play the tempo-losing K-f3-g3-g2.</p>
  <p><a href="https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=probid%3D%27P1402283%27" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Solution</a></p>
  <p>A &quot;cleaner&quot; example: Mate in 18.</p>
  <p>Pierre-Antoine Cathignol, diagrammes 1987-1988, 2. Preis</p>
  <pre><code>[Title &quot;White to move&quot;]
  [FEN &quot;8/8/8/2b3p1/5pPk/4pPp1/2N1PpP1/5K2 w - - 0 1&quot;]
  </code></pre>
  <p><a href="https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=PROBID%3D%27P126759" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Solution</a></p>
  <p>A study by Shinkman 1905, 97 moves until mate, unfortunately the pawn structure is illegal:</p>
  <pre><code>[Title &quot;White to move&quot;]
  [FEN &quot;bn2B3/rn2Bp1p/p6p/k2N1p2/7p/2bp1p2/5P2/3K3N w - - 0 1&quot;]
  </code></pre>
  <p>A study by F. Lindgren 1917, 24 moves:</p>
  <pre><code>[Title &quot;White to move&quot;]
  [FEN &quot;8/8/5N2/8/3p1K1k/3N4/8/8 w - - 0 1&quot;]
  </code></pre>
  <p><a href="http://matplus.net/start.php?px=1728977920&amp;app=forum&amp;act=posts&amp;fid=gen&amp;tid=3205&amp;pid=26314#n26314" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Solution to the studies</a> and THX to all contributors from MatPlus (same thread).</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2024-10-13T17:25:12.830Z
Answers.Text: Oh, it is not as complicated as I thought it would be! Do you think it would be tricky if we only allowed mate-in-three positions where all non-"quiet" non-checkmate white moves make white lose the win? Anyway, great answer! Thank you!
Answers.UserDisplayName: FxMySz
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Answers.CreationDate: 2024-10-13T17:34:17.730Z
Answers.Text: This then would be an unexpected-mate-study. I know tons of them too (and just would have to check that they don't check - sorry :-) - or capture.).
Answers.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2024-10-13T19:33:56.457Z
Answers.Text: Without the pawn White has a checkless mate in 7. Is there a mate in 7 or less that incudes a check?
Answers.UserDisplayName: bof
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2024-10-14T07:46:43.733Z
Answers.Text: at everyone: since there is considerable interest, I take it to the experts at MatPlus. I'll edit my answer accordingly.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Body: <p>Is there a position where <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Without_loss_of_generality" rel="nofollow noreferrer">w.l.o.g.</a> white is to move, it has a mate in three, and no matter what black does, white's two first moves must be quiet (i.e., without check or capture) in order not to delay the checkmate?</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-10-13T16:23:41.267Z
Comments.Text: Here is an example for mate-in-two: https://chess.stackexchange.com/a/14001/33457 (first diagram of the answer).
Comments.UserDisplayName: FxMySz
Tags: <checkmate><composing>
Title: Is there a mate-in-three position where the two first moves of the winning side must be quiet to not delay the mate?
ThreadText: # Is there a mate-in-three position where the two first moves of the winning side must be quiet to not delay the mate?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2024-10-13)
  
  Is there a position where [w.l.o.g.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Without_loss_of_generality) white is to move, it has a mate in three, and no matter what black does, white's two first moves must be quiet (i.e., without check or capture) in order not to delay the checkmate?
  
  **Tags:** checkmate, composing
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: Here is an example for mate-in-two: https://chess.stackexchange.com/a/14001/33457 (first diagram of the answer).  
  
  ---
  
  ## 1 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2024-10-13. Score: 1 | Accepted answer
  
  Three? I'm just too lazy to send you half of the SCHWALBE #3 originals! I bet the score can be pushed far higher.
  
  Romeo Bedoni, Andre Cheron, Journal de Geneve 28/06/1975, #57
  
  ```
  [Title "White to move"]
  [FEN "7n/ppp2p2/2N2Pp1/6B1/8/8/p1p2PKp/rbNk1rbR w - - 0 1"]
  
  ```
  
  Note that the first capturing move pair Kxf1 bxc6 was added only later to increase the move numbers. Simply drop it again to have a #56 fulfilling your needs. Also note a big defect: it doesn't matter in which order you play the tempo-losing K-f3-g3-g2.
  
  [Solution](https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=probid%3D%27P1402283%27)
  
  A "cleaner" example: Mate in 18.
  
  Pierre-Antoine Cathignol, diagrammes 1987-1988, 2. Preis
  
  ```
  [Title "White to move"]
  [FEN "8/8/8/2b3p1/5pPk/4pPp1/2N1PpP1/5K2 w - - 0 1"]
  
  ```
  
  [Solution](https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=PROBID%3D%27P126759)
  
  A study by Shinkman 1905, 97 moves until mate, unfortunately the pawn structure is illegal:
  
  ```
  [Title "White to move"]
  [FEN "bn2B3/rn2Bp1p/p6p/k2N1p2/7p/2bp1p2/5P2/3K3N w - - 0 1"]
  
  ```
  
  A study by F. Lindgren 1917, 24 moves:
  
  ```
  [Title "White to move"]
  [FEN "8/8/5N2/8/3p1K1k/3N4/8/8 w - - 0 1"]
  
  ```
  
  [Solution to the studies](http://matplus.net/start.php?px=1728977920&app=forum&act=posts&fid=gen&tid=3205&pid=26314#n26314) and THX to all contributors from MatPlus (same thread).
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: Oh, it is not as complicated as I thought it would be! Do you think it would be tricky if we only allowed mate-in-three positions where all non-"quiet" non-checkmate white moves make white lose the win? Anyway, great answer! Thank you!  
  > **username_1**: This then would be an unexpected-mate-study. I know tons of them too (and just would have to check that they don't check - sorry :-) - or capture.).  
  > **username_2**: Without the pawn White has a checkless mate in 7. Is there a mate in 7 or less that incudes a check?  
  > **username_1**: at everyone: since there is considerable interest, I take it to the experts at MatPlus. I'll edit my answer accordingly.  
  
  ---
  
  