Answers.Body: <p>I will take a shot at it with my limited knowledge. I think it seems to me like a Reti transformed into a standard English opening line with 3. g3 b6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.0-0. Your assumption is right when you say it's not a QID since white didn't play d4. Will white play d4 later anyway? It's possible, although for instance after 5.0-0 Be7, if I were white, I might not play that as black control's the e4 square. And it's a central theme in QID positions, I believe. as for 6.b3 black can equalize easily and play 6... 0-0 7.Bb2 c5 or d5 and have some control in the centre. </p>
  
  <p>Wojo's 6. Nc3 0-0 7. Re1,black can reply with d5 and equalize quite easily.</p>
  
  <p>I think another option of white on move 6 can be 6.d3.</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2014-07-25T02:22:22.923Z
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Answers.UserDisplayName: RingMaster
Answers.Body: <blockquote>
    <p>Does this make a real important difference? Or is this position also considered as a QID?</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>This is definitely not QID, as White hasn't played <code>d4</code> yet. This is a <strong>major</strong> difference, that is good for White. Black needs to prevent <code>e4</code> in the QID and he succeeds in it, but here White has an extra "warrior" for fight for the <code>e4</code>, the <code>d-pawn</code>. If White could get <code>e4</code> then Black position could become difficult.</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>Will White need to play d4 later anyway, and thus transposing to a normal QID?</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>No, You have a choice: you can "forgive" him for being too hasty ( play <code>d4</code> and enter standard QID ) or you can try and punish him ( by fighting for <code>e4</code> ).</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>After 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 b6 4. Bg2 Bb7 5. O-O what would you recommend me to play?</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>I would follow the line <em>Kramnik</em> gave in book <em>Khalifman-Opening for White According to Kramnik 1.Nf3 ( 2nd book, 2001 )</em> and go for <code>Nc3</code> so I could fight for <code>e4</code>.</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>What are all the differences between these three moves?</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>With <code>d4</code> you go for the QID ( not bad ), with <code>b3</code> you go for Reti-like-position and with <code>Nc3</code> you try to <strong>refute</strong> Black's play.</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>And finally, what do you think about Wojo's 6. Nc3 O-O 7. Re1 ?</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>This is the plan I would choose in the game ( <em>Kramnik</em> suggested it as well! ). It tries to refute Black's opening play by claiming <code>e4</code> -> it is the strongest plan in my opinion.</p>
  
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Answers.Text: I think you are a little too optimistic about White's chance after 6. Nc3 O-O 7. Re1. Sure, it is tempting to go for e4 first and d4 after, but that is just an opening choice among others. Most grandmasters would call it an option to exploit the move order, but not an "attempt at refutation"...
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Body: <p>I first thought that starting with 1. Nf3 would avoid the QID. But after thinking about it, this is only true if White plays 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3</p>
  
  <p>The move 3. Nc3 seems really cool since this would probably get out of book most people who play the Nimzo/QID complex (at least at the club level).</p>
  
  <p>Though 3. g3 is also very interesting. But after 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 Black has 3... b6</p>
  
  <p>And then we have a position that is very close to a QID, but there is one difference: White didn't play d4 yet.</p>
  
  <p>Does this make a real important difference? Or is this position also considered as a QID? Will White need to play d4 later anyway, and thus transposing to a normal QID?</p>
  
  <p>After 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 b6 4. Bg2 Bb7 5. O-O what would you recommend me to play?</p>
  
  <p>After 5...Be7 there are three possible moves:</p>
  
  <ul>
  <li>6.Nc3</li>
  <li>6.d4</li>
  <li>6.b3</li>
  </ul>
  
  <p>What are all the differences between these three moves?</p>
  
  <p>And finally, what do you think about Wojo's 6. Nc3 O-O 7. Re1 ?</p>
  
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Comments.CreationDate: 2014-07-26T20:10:58.293Z
Comments.Text: Are you willing to play King's Indian Attack? There might be a possibility to exploit Black's move order to launch faster mating attack...
Comments.UserDisplayName: AlwaysLearningNewStuff
Tags: <opening><theory><books><queens-indian>
Title: Is 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 b6 a QID even though White hasn't played d4 yet? What would you recommend me against it?
ThreadText: # Is 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 b6 a QID even though White hasn't played d4 yet? What would you recommend me against it?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2014-07-25)
  
  I first thought that starting with 1. Nf3 would avoid the QID. But after thinking about it, this is only true if White plays 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3
  
  The move 3. Nc3 seems really cool since this would probably get out of book most people who play the Nimzo/QID complex (at least at the club level).
  
  Though 3. g3 is also very interesting. But after 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 Black has 3... b6
  
  And then we have a position that is very close to a QID, but there is one difference: White didn't play d4 yet.
  
  Does this make a real important difference? Or is this position also considered as a QID? Will White need to play d4 later anyway, and thus transposing to a normal QID?
  
  After 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 b6 4. Bg2 Bb7 5. O-O what would you recommend me to play?
  
  After 5...Be7 there are three possible moves:
  
  * 6.Nc3
  * 6.d4
  * 6.b3
  
  What are all the differences between these three moves?
  
  And finally, what do you think about Wojo's 6. Nc3 O-O 7. Re1 ?
  
  **Tags:** opening, theory, books, queens-indian
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Are you willing to play King's Indian Attack? There might be a possibility to exploit Black's move order to launch faster mating attack...  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2014-07-25. Score: 5 | Accepted answer
  
  > Does this make a real important difference? Or is this position also considered as a QID?
  
  This is definitely not QID, as White hasn't played `d4` yet. This is a **major** difference, that is good for White. Black needs to prevent `e4` in the QID and he succeeds in it, but here White has an extra "warrior" for fight for the `e4`, the `d-pawn`. If White could get `e4` then Black position could become difficult.
  
  > Will White need to play d4 later anyway, and thus transposing to a normal QID?
  
  No, You have a choice: you can "forgive" him for being too hasty ( play `d4` and enter standard QID ) or you can try and punish him ( by fighting for `e4` ).
  
  > After 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. g3 b6 4. Bg2 Bb7 5. O-O what would you recommend me to play?
  
  I would follow the line *Kramnik* gave in book *Khalifman-Opening for White According to Kramnik 1.Nf3 ( 2nd book, 2001 )* and go for `Nc3` so I could fight for `e4`.
  
  > What are all the differences between these three moves?
  
  With `d4` you go for the QID ( not bad ), with `b3` you go for Reti-like-position and with `Nc3` you try to **refute** Black's play.
  
  > And finally, what do you think about Wojo's 6. Nc3 O-O 7. Re1 ?
  
  This is the plan I would choose in the game ( *Kramnik* suggested it as well! ). It tries to refute Black's opening play by claiming `e4` -> it is the strongest plan in my opinion.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_3**: I think you are a little too optimistic about White's chance after 6. Nc3 O-O 7. Re1. Sure, it is tempting to go for e4 first and d4 after, but that is just an opening choice among others. Most grandmasters would call it an option to exploit the move order, but not an "attempt at refutation"...  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2014-07-25. Score: 2
  
  I will take a shot at it with my limited knowledge. I think it seems to me like a Reti transformed into a standard English opening line with 3. g3 b6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.0-0. Your assumption is right when you say it's not a QID since white didn't play d4. Will white play d4 later anyway? It's possible, although for instance after 5.0-0 Be7, if I were white, I might not play that as black control's the e4 square. And it's a central theme in QID positions, I believe. as for 6.b3 black can equalize easily and play 6... 0-0 7.Bb2 c5 or d5 and have some control in the centre.
  
  Wojo's 6. Nc3 0-0 7. Re1,black can reply with d5 and equalize quite easily.
  
  I think another option of white on move 6 can be 6.d3.
  
  
  ---
  
  