Answers.Body: <p>A super heavy construction, that certainly can be refined.</p>
  <p>From Black's point of view:</p>
  <pre><code>[Title &quot;Black to play -- lose&quot;]
  [FEN &quot;8/8/6pp/6pk/5P1P/5PPK/p7/8 b - - 0 1&quot;]
  
  1...a1=Q 2.g4#
  </code></pre>
  <p>We can even have all wP on the third rank only:</p>
  <p>White to play and win:</p>
  <pre><code>[Title &quot;White to play -- win&quot;]
  [FEN &quot;8/8/5pp1/3K1kp1/6p1/4PP1P/2p3P1/8 w - - 0 1&quot;]
  
  1.g3! b1Q 2.e4#
  </code></pre>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-09-26T06:40:27.057Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2022-09-26T06:51:41.837Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2022-09-26T06:51:41.837Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Evargalo
Body: <p>Base: <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/40655/queen-first-lose-or-draw-later">Queen first, lose (or draw) later</a></p>
  <p>What is the most economical pawn endgame position where Black queens first but White draws, White pawns on rank 3 or 4 on time of Black queening?</p>
  <p>(added because well-known stalemate tricks are specific to rank 2, and rank 5 suffices as already shown in the Zinar study)</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-09-26T02:36:57.730Z
Comments.Text: Stalemate tricks don't require a wP on the second rank.  Ka3,Pb3,Pb4/Ka1,Pb5,Ph2.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-09-26T06:30:00.867Z
Comments.Text: 1. Stalemate tricks don't require a wP at all (Ka3/Kb5,Pb3,Pb2). 2. Stalemate tricks seem irrelevant for this question which requires White to win (unless Black uses stalemate tricks in some lines, but then why exclude them ? 3. As a consequence I see no strong reason for forbidding wP on the 2d rank in this question.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Evargalo
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-09-26T09:09:29.717Z
Comments.Text: @Evargalo (and else): Oh bother! Could you delete the answer? (Noams comment seems already to be the right answer.) Of course this was supposed to be the "White draws" part... ("White wins" is #6.) This happens when one splits (and it's one of these days where the Internet connection crashes all the time and one is in a hurry). Question edited. Apologies!
Comments.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-09-26T09:11:37.717Z
Comments.Text: @NoamD.Elkies: you can "upgrade" your comment, sorry for the initial misprint. Draw, not win.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-09-26T20:48:04.230Z
Comments.Text: I could, but it's 2+2 pawns and @Evargalo is correct that this question is answered by the 0+2 position he already posted for another variation of this task.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
Tags: <pawn-endgame>
Title: Queen first, lose (or draw) later 5
ThreadText: # Queen first, lose (or draw) later 5
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2022-09-25)
  
  Base: [Queen first, lose (or draw) later](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/40655/queen-first-lose-or-draw-later)
  
  What is the most economical pawn endgame position where Black queens first but White draws, White pawns on rank 3 or 4 on time of Black queening?
  
  (added because well-known stalemate tricks are specific to rank 2, and rank 5 suffices as already shown in the Zinar study)
  
  **Tags:** pawn-endgame
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Stalemate tricks don't require a wP on the second rank.  Ka3,Pb3,Pb4/Ka1,Pb5,Ph2.  
  > **username_2**: 1. Stalemate tricks don't require a wP at all (Ka3/Kb5,Pb3,Pb2). 2. Stalemate tricks seem irrelevant for this question which requires White to win (unless Black uses stalemate tricks in some lines, but then why exclude them ? 3. As a consequence I see no strong reason for forbidding wP on the 2d rank in this question.  
  > **username_0**: @username_2 (and else): Oh bother! Could you delete the answer? (Noams comment seems already to be the right answer.) Of course this was supposed to be the "White draws" part... ("White wins" is #6.) This happens when one splits (and it's one of these days where the Internet connection crashes all the time and one is in a hurry). Question edited. Apologies!  
  > **username_0**: @username_1: you can "upgrade" your comment, sorry for the initial misprint. Draw, not win.  
  > **username_1**: I could, but it's 2+2 pawns and @username_2 is correct that this question is answered by the 0+2 position he already posted for another variation of this task.  
  
  ---
  
  ## 1 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2022-09-26. Score: 1
  
  A super heavy construction, that certainly can be refined.
  
  From Black's point of view:
  
  ```
  [Title "Black to play -- lose"]
  [FEN "8/8/6pp/6pk/5P1P/5PPK/p7/8 b - - 0 1"]
  
  1...a1=Q 2.g4#
  
  ```
  
  We can even have all wP on the third rank only:
  
  White to play and win:
  
  ```
  [Title "White to play -- win"]
  [FEN "8/8/5pp1/3K1kp1/6p1/4PP1P/2p3P1/8 w - - 0 1"]
  
  1.g3! b1Q 2.e4#
  
  ```
  
  
  ---
  
  