Answers.Body: <p>As someone who plays 4.Ng5 as White, I can tell you what I've found to be the hardest Black line against me: 4...d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Be2 h6 9.Nf3 e4 10.Ne5 Bc5!?</p>
  
  <pre><code>[FEN ""]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5+ c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Be2 (8. Qf3 Be7 9. Bxc6+ Nxc6 10. Qxc6+ Bd7 11. Qf3 O-O) h6 9. Nf3 e4 10. Ne5 Bc5!? (10...Bd6 11. f4 exf3 12. Nxf3) 11. c3 (11. O-O Qd4 12. Ng4 Bxg4 13. Bxg4 e3) O-O 12. b4 (12. O-O Qc7) Qd5!?
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>The theory move is 10...Bd6 hitting the knight, but as White I've found that 11.f4 exf3 12.Nxf3 gives White a comfortable enough game a pawn up.</p>
  
  <p>10...Bc5!? takes f4 off the table because of king safety, and Black can attack the near-trapped knight with the queen instead. A main line might be 11.c3 (11.O-O Qd4) O-O 12.b4 (12.O-O Qc7) Qd5!?</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-19T22:51:09.883Z
Answers.Text: Thanks, but I am also concerned of the line with, instead of 8.Be2, white plays Qf6, pinning the pawn against the rook and threatening the c pawn. I can't play Bg4 in response because White takes c pawn with check.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Mildwood
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-20T00:00:23.763Z
Answers.Text: How does Black refute 11.O-O Qd4 12.Ng4?
Answers.UserDisplayName: bof
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-20T11:31:56.673Z
Answers.Text: 12...Bxg4 13.Bxg4 e3
Answers.UserDisplayName: Jeff Y
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-20T12:04:11.833Z
Answers.Text: On 8.Qf3 instead of Be2, Black will have to be content with the theory line 8...Be7 9.Bxc6+ Nxc6 10.Qxc6+ Bd7 11.Qf3 (or Qc4) O-O.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Jeff Y
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-02-03T08:56:20.327Z
Answers.Text: I believe this is the modern "refutation" of the line. Usually white players in this line are willing to sacrifice material in order to have attacking chances. With these moves, Black is "counter-sacrificing" only a pawn for a much superior piece development and initiative. The compensation is clear, but one must play aggressively to pose clear questions to white's king safety and lack of development. While sound, one of the main factors of these lines is the psychological one: an attacking player usually does not want to be on the defensive, not even a pawn up.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Pablo S. Ocal
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-05-24T08:36:53.890Z
Answers.Text: This is also the line recommended in "Opening Repertoire: the Open Games with Black" by Martin Lokander.
Answers.UserDisplayName: RemcoGerlich
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-19T17:28:21.683Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2016-02-02T21:51:04.000Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2016-02-02T21:51:04.000Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Jeff Y
Answers.Body: <p>I played the <strong>Traxler</strong> a lot, and it's quite a good option to play after preparation. Your opponents will escape with castling most of the time because they will be scared of your opening prep. And when they accept the sacrifice, there are quite easy draws for Black, if you don't want to play to win.</p>
  
  <p>If you feel confident in complex tactical positions, the Traxler should be your main option. It instantly turns the tables, Black attacks, White defends.</p>
  
  <p>Plus, it's a very engine friendly opening, as it's mostly tactical. You can analyze the opening with an engine and discover a novelty if you are lucky enough.</p>
  
  <p>This is a very good start for preparation: <a href="https://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB63_146.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB63_146.pdf</a></p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-25T08:17:30.613Z
Answers.Text: I have to admit I play 4 d4 to avoid the Traxler ...
Answers.UserDisplayName: Ian Bush
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-26T02:01:22.720Z
Answers.Text: traxler is bad, if the opponent takes f7 with his bishop, black is just very much worse.
Answers.UserDisplayName: CognisMantis
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-26T04:24:49.637Z
Answers.Text: Black enjoys Nxf7 and quite well after Bxf7 too. Your claim is false.
Answers.UserDisplayName: ferit
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-27T16:58:16.113Z
Answers.Text: Both claims are false. Black is slightly worse and will in fact need to struggle to hold a draw in both f7 cases: 1) +/-  (1.34): 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kf1 Qe7 7.Nxh8 Bb6 8.Bf7+ Kd8 9.d3 Qc5 10.Qd2 Qf8 11.Nc3 h6 12.Ke1 Qxh8 13.Rf1 d6 14.Nd5 Nxd5 15.Bxd5 a5 16.Rf7 Ne7 17.Bc4 a4 18.h3 Bd7 
  2) +/-  (0.98): 5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.Bb3 Qe8 7.d3 d6 8.Nf3 Bg4 9.Be3 Bxe3 10.fxe3 Rf8 11.Nbd2 Kd7 12.h3 Bxf3 13.Qxf3 Qh5 14.Qg3 Qg6 15.Qxg6 hxg6 16.0-0 a6 17.a3
Answers.UserDisplayName: Jeff Y
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-27T17:00:35.813Z
Answers.Text: Black is probably sligtly worse theorethically, but position is unclear. And Black has excellent practical chances.
Answers.UserDisplayName: ferit
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-27T23:21:05.457Z
Answers.Text: Not to mention that the White side will panic if he hasn't prepared against it properly.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Mildwood
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-29T12:10:14.823Z
Answers.Text: Those de Zeeuw articles are a great public resource on the Traxler! Hoorah for New in Chess for making/keeping them available. Here are the other 4: https://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB65_137.pdf https://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB66_113.pdf https://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB67_130.pdf https://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB68_142.pdf
Answers.UserDisplayName: Jeff Y
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-29T12:24:26.773Z
Answers.Text: I studied Zeeuws analysis years before, yeah they are very good resources for Traxler. But you really shouldnt dump engine lines, really...
Answers.UserDisplayName: ferit
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-01-19T20:21:10.497Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2017-05-19T06:31:07.763Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2017-05-19T06:31:07.763Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: ferit
Answers.Body: <p>You could just do what most grandmasters do and play 3...Bc5. It will usually transpose to positions you could get after 3...Nf6 while avoiding the Ng5 stuff.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-05-20T03:58:04.490Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2017-05-20T03:58:04.490Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Nate
Answers.Body: <p>I think this video is helpful: 
  <a href="https://youtu.be/MKsNX_c1KTw" rel="nofollow">Traxler counterattack</a></p>
  
  <ol>
  <li>e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 Bc5 $5 5. Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6. Kxf2 Nxe4+ 7. Kf1
  (7. Kf3 Qf6+ 8. Kxe4 d5+ (8... Qf4+ 9. Kd3) 9. Bxd5 (9. Kxd5 Nb4+ 10. Kc5 (10.
  Ke4 Qf4#) 10... Qb6#) 9... Qf4+ 10. Kd3 Qd4+ 11. Ke2 Qxd5 12. Nxh8 Bg4+) (7.
  Ke2 Nd4+ 8. Ke3 (8. Kd3 Nf2+) 8... Qh4 9. Rf1 (9. Nxh8 Qf4+ 10. Kd3 Nc5+ 11.
  Kc3 Nb5+ 12. Kb4 a5+ 13. Kxb5 c6+ 14. Kb6 Na4+ 15. Kc7 e4#) 9... d5 10. Bxd5 (</li>
  <li>Nxh8 Qg5+) 10... Bg4 11. g3 Qh5 12. Qe1 Nxc2+ 13. Kxe4 Nxe1 14. Rxe1 Qf5+</li>
  <li>Ke3 Rf8) (7. Ke1 Qh4+ 8. g3 Nxg3 9. Nxh8 (9. hxg3 Qxh1+ 10. Bf1 O-O 11. Qe2
  Nd4 12. Qg2 Qxg2 13. Bxg2 Nxc2+ 14. Kd1 Nxa1) 9... Ne4+ 10. Ke2 Qf2+ 11. Kd3
  Nb4+ (11... Nc5+ 12. Kc3 Qd4#) 12. Kxe4 Qf4#) 7... Qh4 8. Qf3 (8. Qe1 Ng3+ 9.
  Qxg3 Qxc4+ 10. d3 Qxf7+ 11. Ke1 O-O) 8... Ng3+ 9. Kg1 (9. Qxg3 Qxc4+) 9... Qd4+</li>
  <li>Qe3 Qxc4 11. hxg3 Qxf7 *</li>
  </ol>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-02-04T15:30:37.513Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2016-02-05T18:27:50.547Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2016-02-05T18:27:50.547Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: aaguillon
Body: <p>I've been trying do some research on the defence against <code>4. Ng5</code>, since it has been a really big thorn in my side for a bit of time.</p>
  
  <pre><code>[FEN ""]
  [StartPly "7"]
  
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>I've firstly taken a look into the Traxler attack, but I'm unsure about it since it's such a 'hack' line and well, it's a bit unreliable in a really big match.</p>
  
  <p>I am looking at mainline with <code>Na5</code> and <code>c6</code>, but I am not quite sure how Black keeps up the initiative from there. His queenside looks a bit shattered and White seems to be fine with happily developing his queenside.</p>
  
  <p>Can anyone tell me some kind of plan or theory on the classical refutation against <code>4. Ng5</code>?
  Thanks!</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2016-01-19T12:54:11.363Z
Comments.Text: I think you are asking for a defence against `4. Ng5`. The Fried Liver is `1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Nxd5 6. Nxf7 Kxf7` which you probably don't want to go into.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Dag Oskar Madsen
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2016-01-19T12:58:27.227Z
Comments.Text: Erm, yes, I think that's what I am talking about. Though I am not quite sure what the proper name for 4.Ng5 is.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Mildwood
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2016-01-19T13:01:06.677Z
Comments.Text: That's maybe a question in itself.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Dag Oskar Madsen
Tags: <opening><two-knights>
Title: Two Knights Defense 4. Ng5 - Strategy?
ThreadText: # Two Knights Defense 4. Ng5 - Strategy?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2016-01-19)
  
  I've been trying do some research on the defence against `4. Ng5`, since it has been a really big thorn in my side for a bit of time.
  
  ```
  [FEN ""]
  [StartPly "7"]
  
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5
  
  ```
  
  I've firstly taken a look into the Traxler attack, but I'm unsure about it since it's such a 'hack' line and well, it's a bit unreliable in a really big match.
  
  I am looking at mainline with `Na5` and `c6`, but I am not quite sure how Black keeps up the initiative from there. His queenside looks a bit shattered and White seems to be fine with happily developing his queenside.
  
  Can anyone tell me some kind of plan or theory on the classical refutation against `4. Ng5`?
  Thanks!
  
  **Tags:** opening, two-knights
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: I think you are asking for a defence against `4. Ng5`. The Fried Liver is `1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Nxd5 6. Nxf7 Kxf7` which you probably don't want to go into.  
  > **username_0**: Erm, yes, I think that's what I am talking about. Though I am not quite sure what the proper name for 4.Ng5 is.  
  > **username_1**: That's maybe a question in itself.  
  
  ---
  
  ## 4 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2016-01-19. Score: 5 | Accepted answer
  
  As someone who plays 4.Ng5 as White, I can tell you what I've found to be the hardest Black line against me: 4...d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Be2 h6 9.Nf3 e4 10.Ne5 Bc5!?
  
  ```
  [FEN ""]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5+ c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Be2 (8. Qf3 Be7 9. Bxc6+ Nxc6 10. Qxc6+ Bd7 11. Qf3 O-O) h6 9. Nf3 e4 10. Ne5 Bc5!? (10...Bd6 11. f4 exf3 12. Nxf3) 11. c3 (11. O-O Qd4 12. Ng4 Bxg4 13. Bxg4 e3) O-O 12. b4 (12. O-O Qc7) Qd5!?
  
  ```
  
  The theory move is 10...Bd6 hitting the knight, but as White I've found that 11.f4 exf3 12.Nxf3 gives White a comfortable enough game a pawn up.
  
  10...Bc5!? takes f4 off the table because of king safety, and Black can attack the near-trapped knight with the queen instead. A main line might be 11.c3 (11.O-O Qd4) O-O 12.b4 (12.O-O Qc7) Qd5!?
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: Thanks, but I am also concerned of the line with, instead of 8.Be2, white plays Qf6, pinning the pawn against the rook and threatening the c pawn. I can't play Bg4 in response because White takes c pawn with check.  
  > **username_3**: How does Black refute 11.O-O Qd4 12.Ng4?  
  > **username_2**: 12...Bxg4 13.Bxg4 e3  
  > **username_2**: On 8.Qf3 instead of Be2, Black will have to be content with the theory line 8...Be7 9.Bxc6+ Nxc6 10.Qxc6+ Bd7 11.Qf3 (or Qc4) O-O.  
  > **username_4**: I believe this is the modern "refutation" of the line. Usually white players in this line are willing to sacrifice material in order to have attacking chances. With these moves, Black is "counter-sacrificing" only a pawn for a much superior piece development and initiative. The compensation is clear, but one must play aggressively to pose clear questions to white's king safety and lack of development. While sound, one of the main factors of these lines is the psychological one: an attacking player usually does not want to be on the defensive, not even a pawn up.  
  > **username_5**: This is also the line recommended in "Opening Repertoire: the Open Games with Black" by Martin Lokander.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_6 on 2016-01-19. Score: 4
  
  I played the **Traxler** a lot, and it's quite a good option to play after preparation. Your opponents will escape with castling most of the time because they will be scared of your opening prep. And when they accept the sacrifice, there are quite easy draws for Black, if you don't want to play to win.
  
  If you feel confident in complex tactical positions, the Traxler should be your main option. It instantly turns the tables, Black attacks, White defends.
  
  Plus, it's a very engine friendly opening, as it's mostly tactical. You can analyze the opening with an engine and discover a novelty if you are lucky enough.
  
  This is a very good start for preparation: <https://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB63_146.pdf>
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_7**: I have to admit I play 4 d4 to avoid the Traxler ...  
  > **username_8**: traxler is bad, if the opponent takes f7 with his bishop, black is just very much worse.  
  > **username_6**: Black enjoys Nxf7 and quite well after Bxf7 too. Your claim is false.  
  > **username_2**: Both claims are false. Black is slightly worse and will in fact need to struggle to hold a draw in both f7 cases: 1) +/-  (1.34): 5.Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6.Kf1 Qe7 7.Nxh8 Bb6 8.Bf7+ Kd8 9.d3 Qc5 10.Qd2 Qf8 11.Nc3 h6 12.Ke1 Qxh8 13.Rf1 d6 14.Nd5 Nxd5 15.Bxd5 a5 16.Rf7 Ne7 17.Bc4 a4 18.h3 Bd7  2) +/-  (0.98): 5.Bxf7+ Ke7 6.Bb3 Qe8 7.d3 d6 8.Nf3 Bg4 9.Be3 Bxe3 10.fxe3 Rf8 11.Nbd2 Kd7 12.h3 Bxf3 13.Qxf3 Qh5 14.Qg3 Qg6 15.Qxg6 hxg6 16.0-0 a6 17.a3  
  > **username_6**: Black is probably sligtly worse theorethically, but position is unclear. And Black has excellent practical chances.  
  > **username_0**: Not to mention that the White side will panic if he hasn't prepared against it properly.  
  > **username_2**: Those de Zeeuw articles are a great public resource on the Traxler! Hoorah for New in Chess for making/keeping them available. Here are the other 4: https://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB65_137.pdf https://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB66_113.pdf https://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB67_130.pdf https://www.newinchess.com/Yearbook/pdf/YB68_142.pdf  
  > **username_6**: I studied Zeeuws analysis years before, yeah they are very good resources for Traxler. But you really shouldnt dump engine lines, really...  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_9 on 2017-05-20. Score: 0
  
  You could just do what most grandmasters do and play 3...Bc5. It will usually transpose to positions you could get after 3...Nf6 while avoiding the Ng5 stuff.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_10 on 2016-02-04. Score: -1
  
  I think this video is helpful:
  [Traxler counterattack](https://youtu.be/MKsNX_c1KTw)
  
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 Bc5 $5 5. Nxf7 Bxf2+ 6. Kxf2 Nxe4+ 7. Kf1
     (7. Kf3 Qf6+ 8. Kxe4 d5+ (8... Qf4+ 9. Kd3) 9. Bxd5 (9. Kxd5 Nb4+ 10. Kc5 (10.
     Ke4 Qf4#) 10... Qb6#) 9... Qf4+ 10. Kd3 Qd4+ 11. Ke2 Qxd5 12. Nxh8 Bg4+) (7.
     Ke2 Nd4+ 8. Ke3 (8. Kd3 Nf2+) 8... Qh4 9. Rf1 (9. Nxh8 Qf4+ 10. Kd3 Nc5+ 11.
     Kc3 Nb5+ 12. Kb4 a5+ 13. Kxb5 c6+ 14. Kb6 Na4+ 15. Kc7 e4#) 9... d5 10. Bxd5 (
  2. Nxh8 Qg5+) 10... Bg4 11. g3 Qh5 12. Qe1 Nxc2+ 13. Kxe4 Nxe1 14. Rxe1 Qf5+
  3. Ke3 Rf8) (7. Ke1 Qh4+ 8. g3 Nxg3 9. Nxh8 (9. hxg3 Qxh1+ 10. Bf1 O-O 11. Qe2
     Nd4 12. Qg2 Qxg2 13. Bxg2 Nxc2+ 14. Kd1 Nxa1) 9... Ne4+ 10. Ke2 Qf2+ 11. Kd3
     Nb4+ (11... Nc5+ 12. Kc3 Qd4#) 12. Kxe4 Qf4#) 7... Qh4 8. Qf3 (8. Qe1 Ng3+ 9.
     Qxg3 Qxc4+ 10. d3 Qxf7+ 11. Ke1 O-O) 8... Ng3+ 9. Kg1 (9. Qxg3 Qxc4+) 9... Qd4+
  4. Qe3 Qxc4 11. hxg3 Qxf7 \*
  
  
  ---
  
  