Answers.Body: <p>The magnus 10 bot is so horribly coded I am not even joking. I have been playing chess for 4 years and I was able to beat age 9 within the first year but magnus age 10 I can only beat if I'm incredibly careful and play as if it's a tournament game.</p>
  <p>The bot makes almost all perfect moves until it has a +5 advantage after which it plays inaccurately but still not bad enough for you to get a good lead. Sometimes it will have a mate in 3 but it will play crazy moves that do literally nothing but keep your king trapped. This is supposed to simulate a certain elo but it does it horribly.</p>
  <p>I'll play a game with it rn and I'll send a link of the game's analysis.</p>
  <p>Magnus age 10 bot is at least 2000 rated in terms of chess com elo.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-03-15T21:08:41.437Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2021-03-15T21:08:41.437Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: ALK003
Answers.Body: <p>It's impossible to answer. It doesn't have a true Elo.</p>
  <p>There is hardly such a thing as &quot;True Elo&quot;, because there are many different ratings and they can't be directly compared. But the most widely recognized, the FIDE rating, is based on <em>rated tournament games.</em> People are focused, have a lot of time, and they play other such people.</p>
  <p>The rating you mentioned is your chess.com rapid rating. Chess.com uses a different rating system with different parameters, a different starting ratings, and a different pool of players. And it's for rapid, on an online site, where people usually aren't as focused as they are in a tournament game (and that differs a lot between players). It's not a &quot;True Elo&quot; either and it can't be directly compared to other ratings like FIDE.</p>
  <p>Worse, computers, when they are tweaked to play at a lower strength than the default, <em>don't become weaker in the same way that humans do.</em> They are either given an extremely short amount of time, or they are sometimes forced to randomly play a worse move. Their resulting strength may still depend on your phone's CPU speed. It's very hard to say to what kind of human strength the resulting engine would correspond.</p>
  <p>In short, if they manage to roughly come within a few hundred points of what they're aiming at, then I would consider that good.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-03-15T08:37:24.723Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2021-03-15T08:37:24.723Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: RemcoGerlich
Answers.Body: <p>Yeah I would say it's safe to say age 10 is pretty high rated. I'm winning somewhat consistently with no takebacks at age 8 (when he started tournaments) but age 9 it's extremely difficult even with takebacks. If I can get to consistently winning against age 10 I'd be happy.</p>
  <p>I'd say age 8 = 1200-1500, 9 = 1600-1900 and he's a solid 2000 by age 10.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-03-18T10:33:02.280Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2022-03-18T10:33:02.280Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Nick
Answers.Body: <p>It's important to note the PlayMagnus app is running the Glaurung chess engine. The Glaurung chess engine is the forerunner of Stockfish. It's roughly about the same level as Shredder/Junior (<a href="https://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/4040/cgi/engine_details.cgi?print=Details%20(text)&amp;eng=Glaurung%202.2%2064-bit%204CPU" rel="noreferrer">link</a>), both former winners in the computer chess championships. Very far away from the modern Stockfish but also far stronger than your chess.com's rating. You won't stand a chance unless the engine artificially plays bad chess. Unfortunately, there is no good way to make an engine play weaker while human-style chess. Lot's of different techniques, but nothing is satisfactory.</p>
  <p>However, the PlayMagnus group has professional chess programmers working full-time to tune the engine for each age group. While I don't know their internal benchmark, the fact that they're pushing the app out means they're satisfied with the performance. Magnus Carlsen at age 10 was about ELO 2000 (from Wikipedia), so that'd be the target ELO. A tuned-down engine will not be playing consistently at human-level ELO 2000, but it should be closed given after so many years of professional development.</p>
  <p>A very roughly ELO 2000+ (computer engines tend to biased up) is what you should expect. That's consistent with your observations.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-03-15T22:48:25.393Z
Answers.Text: "Unfortunately, there is no good way to make an engine play weaker while human-style chess. Lot's of different techniques, but nothing is satisfactory." This couldn't be more accurate. The highly artificial means through which the target elo is lowered are painfully obvious. In the opening and early middlegame phases, the bot plays like a regular 1600-1700, which usually allows to me to gain an advantage over it early on, but as soon as the advantage gets too big, the bot turns superhuman mode and starts playing like a 2200+, up until the endgame, at which point it drops to <1500.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Max
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-03-15T14:33:49.543Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2021-03-15T14:33:49.543Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: SmallChess
Body: <p>I do realise that a similar question might have been asked before; however, all intel about the topic that I have managed to gather to date seems to be outdated: almost everywhere I search, it is said that PlayMagnus age 10's estimated elo is 1500-1700, but I believe him to be much stronger than that. My Rapid elo on chess.com is 1850, but in order to beat him, I need to concentrate intensely, and even then I'm more likely to draw or lose than win. There is no doubt in my mind that the bot is stronger than me - I would estimate by about 200-300 elo points.</p>
  <p>To this end, here is the question: am I simply significantly overrated, or is age 10 Magnus' true elo actually higher than what is commonly cited?</p>
  
Tags: <rating><elo>
Title: What's PlayMagnus age 10 Magnus' true elo?
ThreadText: # What's PlayMagnus age 10 Magnus' true elo?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2021-03-14)
  
  I do realise that a similar question might have been asked before; however, all intel about the topic that I have managed to gather to date seems to be outdated: almost everywhere I search, it is said that PlayMagnus age 10's estimated elo is 1500-1700, but I believe him to be much stronger than that. My Rapid elo on chess.com is 1850, but in order to beat him, I need to concentrate intensely, and even then I'm more likely to draw or lose than win. There is no doubt in my mind that the bot is stronger than me - I would estimate by about 200-300 elo points.
  
  To this end, here is the question: am I simply significantly overrated, or is age 10 Magnus' true elo actually higher than what is commonly cited?
  
  **Tags:** rating, elo
  
  
  ---
  
  ## 4 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_4 on 2021-03-15. Score: 7 | Accepted answer
  
  It's important to note the PlayMagnus app is running the Glaurung chess engine. The Glaurung chess engine is the forerunner of Stockfish. It's roughly about the same level as Shredder/Junior ([link](https://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/4040/cgi/engine_details.cgi?print=Details%20(text)&eng=Glaurung%202.2%2064-bit%204CPU)), both former winners in the computer chess championships. Very far away from the modern Stockfish but also far stronger than your chess.com's rating. You won't stand a chance unless the engine artificially plays bad chess. Unfortunately, there is no good way to make an engine play weaker while human-style chess. Lot's of different techniques, but nothing is satisfactory.
  
  However, the PlayMagnus group has professional chess programmers working full-time to tune the engine for each age group. While I don't know their internal benchmark, the fact that they're pushing the app out means they're satisfied with the performance. Magnus Carlsen at age 10 was about ELO 2000 (from Wikipedia), so that'd be the target ELO. A tuned-down engine will not be playing consistently at human-level ELO 2000, but it should be closed given after so many years of professional development.
  
  A very roughly ELO 2000+ (computer engines tend to biased up) is what you should expect. That's consistent with your observations.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: "Unfortunately, there is no good way to make an engine play weaker while human-style chess. Lot's of different techniques, but nothing is satisfactory." This couldn't be more accurate. The highly artificial means through which the target elo is lowered are painfully obvious. In the opening and early middlegame phases, the bot plays like a regular 1600-1700, which usually allows to me to gain an advantage over it early on, but as soon as the advantage gets too big, the bot turns superhuman mode and starts playing like a 2200+, up until the endgame, at which point it drops to <1500.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2021-03-15. Score: 1
  
  The magnus 10 bot is so horribly coded I am not even joking. I have been playing chess for 4 years and I was able to beat age 9 within the first year but magnus age 10 I can only beat if I'm incredibly careful and play as if it's a tournament game.
  
  The bot makes almost all perfect moves until it has a +5 advantage after which it plays inaccurately but still not bad enough for you to get a good lead. Sometimes it will have a mate in 3 but it will play crazy moves that do literally nothing but keep your king trapped. This is supposed to simulate a certain elo but it does it horribly.
  
  I'll play a game with it rn and I'll send a link of the game's analysis.
  
  Magnus age 10 bot is at least 2000 rated in terms of chess com elo.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2021-03-15. Score: 0
  
  It's impossible to answer. It doesn't have a true Elo.
  
  There is hardly such a thing as "True Elo", because there are many different ratings and they can't be directly compared. But the most widely recognized, the FIDE rating, is based on *rated tournament games.* People are focused, have a lot of time, and they play other such people.
  
  The rating you mentioned is your chess.com rapid rating. Chess.com uses a different rating system with different parameters, a different starting ratings, and a different pool of players. And it's for rapid, on an online site, where people usually aren't as focused as they are in a tournament game (and that differs a lot between players). It's not a "True Elo" either and it can't be directly compared to other ratings like FIDE.
  
  Worse, computers, when they are tweaked to play at a lower strength than the default, *don't become weaker in the same way that humans do.* They are either given an extremely short amount of time, or they are sometimes forced to randomly play a worse move. Their resulting strength may still depend on your phone's CPU speed. It's very hard to say to what kind of human strength the resulting engine would correspond.
  
  In short, if they manage to roughly come within a few hundred points of what they're aiming at, then I would consider that good.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_3 on 2022-03-18. Score: 0
  
  Yeah I would say it's safe to say age 10 is pretty high rated. I'm winning somewhat consistently with no takebacks at age 8 (when he started tournaments) but age 9 it's extremely difficult even with takebacks. If I can get to consistently winning against age 10 I'd be happy.
  
  I'd say age 8 = 1200-1500, 9 = 1600-1900 and he's a solid 2000 by age 10.
  
  
  ---
  
  