Answers.Body: <p>This happens, but it's rare and is getting rarer. <a href="https://tcec-chess.com/#div=p&amp;game=130&amp;season=21" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Here's</a> a very recent game between Stoofvlees and Komodo Dragon displaying such eval divergence. The discrepancy was only there for a few moves, too.</p>
  <p><strong>Edit</strong>: As I said this does not happen often and it's getting rarer. Examples of Stockfish-Leela games in the past where it happened are <a href="https://tcec-chess.com/#div=sf&amp;game=61&amp;season=15" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this game from Season 15</a> and <a href="https://tcec-chess.com/#div=sf&amp;game=13&amp;season=18" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this one from Season 18</a>; both games are over a year old at this point and involve versions &gt;100 elo weaker than today's.</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-07-06T14:11:22.010Z
Answers.Text: this case is not so interesting because the two evalutions are always of the same sign
Answers.UserDisplayName: Tortar
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-07-07T00:27:26.643Z
Answers.Text: @Tortar not exactly - on move 138 Stoofvlees was +ve and Komodo Dragon was -ve.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Allure
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-07-07T14:24:59.713Z
Answers.Text: yes, but very tiny difference
Answers.UserDisplayName: Tortar
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-07-07T22:30:53.603Z
Answers.Text: @Tortar we're lucky there's even divergence in the first place. If you can find a position with a substantial eval divergence between today's Stockfish/Leela, I'm sure Jeroen (the person who makes the TCEC opening books for the suprefinal) will be interested.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Allure
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-07-08T19:22:29.427Z
Answers.Text: I found some interesting games between the two, but not so big gaps
Answers.UserDisplayName: Tortar
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Answers.LastEditDate: 2021-07-07T00:41:45.877Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Allure
Answers.Body: <p>I finally found through a script several games where (not so big) divergence occurs!</p>
  <p>I analized roughly 3000 games with time control 15+3 and just 10 show a notable divergence.</p>
  <p><strong>It's interesting and intuitively correct that this happens a lot more when black wins!</strong> Indeed in the list below there are 3 wins by white, 6 by black and 1 draw even if black wins much more rarely than white between engines.</p>
  <hr />
  <p><strong>CCC main league 2021</strong> :</p>
  <p><a href="https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-main-league&amp;game=9" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Stockfish classic - Stooflees</a> : +1.41 vs. -2.53</p>
  <p><a href="https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-main-league&amp;game=192" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Komodo - Rubi</a> : Long divergence with pick +1.22 vs. -1.35</p>
  <p><strong>CCC elite round 2021</strong> :</p>
  <p><a href="https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-elite-round&amp;game=357" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Stooflees - Ethereal</a> : +0.84 vs. -1.75</p>
  <p><a href="https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-elite-round&amp;game=391" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Stockfish - Stooflees</a> : +2.91 vs -0.27</p>
  <p><a href="https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-elite-round&amp;game=407" rel="nofollow noreferrer">SlowChess - Stoofvless</a> : +2,76 vs. -1.04</p>
  <p><a href="https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-elite-round&amp;game=508" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Ethereal- Stoofvless</a>  : Long divergence with pick +1,07 vs. -0.97</p>
  <p><strong>CCC final 2021 Stockfish - Lc0</strong>:</p>
  <p><a href="https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-finals&amp;game=9" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Game 9</a> : Long divergence with pick +0.46 vs. -2.19</p>
  <p><a href="https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-finals&amp;game=409" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Game 409</a> : +0.37 vs -1.99</p>
  <p><strong>CCC 2021 Leela vs Dragon round 2</strong> :</p>
  <p><a href="https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=leela-vs-dragon-round-2&amp;game=2" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Game 2</a>  : Long divergence with pick +0.34 vs. -1.04</p>
  <p><a href="https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=leela-vs-dragon-round-2&amp;game=68" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Game 68</a> : Long divergence with pick +0.89 vs -1.13. This game is strange, the two engines don't agree with drawing the game, 307 moves are played!</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-07-09T20:17:17.420Z
Answers.Text: Sounds like great work! We can agree that these positions are very important indeed. How did you download the games together with evaluations from *both* engines?
Answers.UserDisplayName: Mobeus Zoom
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-07-09T20:43:16.793Z
Answers.Text: Initially I thought I would have to write some HTML request but in the end I found that in the download button of one game of a certain event on chess.com you can go on the event section and download all the games of that event  :-)
Answers.UserDisplayName: Tortar
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Answers.LastEditDate: 2021-07-12T20:44:07.793Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Tortar
Body: <p>I'd like to know about computer games of some recent  tournaments where two top engines diverge in evaluation of a position, in the sense that both  think are winning the game (or both losing). I saw a match in the last CCC where Stockfish as white had +3 in his evaluation and Leela -3, that was the maximum I've ever seen.</p>
  <p>This is interesting because usually the two engines seem to agree all the time about which one is winning (or at least one thinks it is winning/losing and the other thinks it is a draw) even if there's a gap between the two evaluations.</p>
  <p>Best by now I found :</p>
  <p><a href="https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-elite-round&amp;game=508" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-elite-round&amp;game=508</a> : about +1 and -1</p>
  <hr />
  <p><strong>EDIT:</strong></p>
  <p>It seems I had an hallucination about the game between Stockfish and Leela</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-07-05T01:48:52.243Z
Comments.Text: Do you have a link to that match?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Steve Bennett
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-07-05T06:27:55.607Z
Comments.Text: I'm certain AlphaZero doesn't participate in TCEC. I'm also skeptical there was a +3 vs. -3 divergence in the last TCEC season either involving Stockfish, and would like to see the game, as well.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Allure
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-07-05T08:57:23.447Z
Comments.Text: yes, I'm trying to find it !
Comments.UserDisplayName: Tortar
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-07-06T18:32:53.960Z
Comments.Text: I did end up finding one where they do differ quite a lot, but i dont know one of the engines so i cant say it is a top engine. This match [https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship#event=romantic-openings-evans-gambit-accepted&game=327](https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship#event=romantic-openings-evans-gambit-accepted&game=327). In move 40 the eval is +2.17 vs -4.33
Comments.UserDisplayName: Isac
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-07-08T02:18:32.367Z
Comments.Text: @Isac Pedone is currently mid-table in TCEC league 1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCEC_Season_21#League_1) while Komodo is the third strongest engine around.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Allure
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-01-14T23:18:11.043Z
Comments.Text: @Toby Harnish ? It is a specific question instead, indeed two answers were provided
Comments.UserDisplayName: Tortar
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-01-14T23:19:49.417Z
Comments.Text: 1) There is a edit section 2) ExampleS
Comments.UserDisplayName: Tortar
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-01-14T23:23:45.117Z
Comments.Text: I think that you are misunderstanding that I'm asking for *examples*, not just one, where this happened *recently*, also even if I thought to have seen +3 and -3 as it is explained in the edit section I didn't find it so I was really probably wrong
Comments.UserDisplayName: Tortar
Tags: <engines><tournament><evaluation>
Title: Examples where top engines in a tournament match don't agree in evaluation
ThreadText: # Examples where top engines in a tournament match don't agree in evaluation
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2021-07-04)
  
  I'd like to know about computer games of some recent tournaments where two top engines diverge in evaluation of a position, in the sense that both think are winning the game (or both losing). I saw a match in the last CCC where Stockfish as white had +3 in his evaluation and Leela -3, that was the maximum I've ever seen.
  
  This is interesting because usually the two engines seem to agree all the time about which one is winning (or at least one thinks it is winning/losing and the other thinks it is a draw) even if there's a gap between the two evaluations.
  
  Best by now I found :
  
  <https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-elite-round&game=508> : about +1 and -1
  
  ---
  
  **EDIT:**
  
  It seems I had an hallucination about the game between Stockfish and Leela
  
  **Tags:** engines, tournament, evaluation
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Do you have a link to that match?  
  > **username_2**: I'm certain AlphaZero doesn't participate in TCEC. I'm also skeptical there was a +3 vs. -3 divergence in the last TCEC season either involving Stockfish, and would like to see the game, as well.  
  > **username_0**: yes, I'm trying to find it !  
  > **username_3**: I did end up finding one where they do differ quite a lot, but i dont know one of the engines so i cant say it is a top engine. This match [https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship#event=romantic-openings-evans-gambit-accepted&game=327](https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship#event=romantic-openings-evans-gambit-accepted&game=327). In move 40 the eval is +2.17 vs -4.33  
  > **username_2**: @username_3 Pedone is currently mid-table in TCEC league 1 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCEC_Season_21#League_1) while Komodo is the third strongest engine around.  
  > **username_0**: @Toby Harnish ? It is a specific question instead, indeed two answers were provided  
  > **username_0**: 1) There is a edit section 2) ExampleS  
  > **username_0**: I think that you are misunderstanding that I'm asking for *examples*, not just one, where this happened *recently*, also even if I thought to have seen +3 and -3 as it is explained in the edit section I didn't find it so I was really probably wrong  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_0 on 2021-07-08. Score: 4 | Accepted answer
  
  I finally found through a script several games where (not so big) divergence occurs!
  
  I analized roughly 3000 games with time control 15+3 and just 10 show a notable divergence.
  
  **It's interesting and intuitively correct that this happens a lot more when black wins!** Indeed in the list below there are 3 wins by white, 6 by black and 1 draw even if black wins much more rarely than white between engines.
  
  ---
  
  **CCC main league 2021** :
  
  [Stockfish classic - Stooflees](https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-main-league&game=9) : +1.41 vs. -2.53
  
  [Komodo - Rubi](https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-main-league&game=192) : Long divergence with pick +1.22 vs. -1.35
  
  **CCC elite round 2021** :
  
  [Stooflees - Ethereal](https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-elite-round&game=357) : +0.84 vs. -1.75
  
  [Stockfish - Stooflees](https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-elite-round&game=391) : +2.91 vs -0.27
  
  [SlowChess - Stoofvless](https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-elite-round&game=407) : +2,76 vs. -1.04
  
  [Ethereal- Stoofvless](https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-elite-round&game=508) : Long divergence with pick +1,07 vs. -0.97
  
  **CCC final 2021 Stockfish - Lc0**:
  
  [Game 9](https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-finals&game=9) : Long divergence with pick +0.46 vs. -2.19
  
  [Game 409](https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=ccc-rapid-2021-finals&game=409) : +0.37 vs -1.99
  
  **CCC 2021 Leela vs Dragon round 2** :
  
  [Game 2](https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=leela-vs-dragon-round-2&game=2) : Long divergence with pick +0.34 vs. -1.04
  
  [Game 68](https://www.chess.com/it/computer-chess-championship#event=leela-vs-dragon-round-2&game=68) : Long divergence with pick +0.89 vs -1.13. This game is strange, the two engines don't agree with drawing the game, 307 moves are played!
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_4**: Sounds like great work! We can agree that these positions are very important indeed. How did you download the games together with evaluations from *both* engines?  
  > **username_0**: Initially I thought I would have to write some HTML request but in the end I found that in the download button of one game of a certain event on chess.com you can go on the event section and download all the games of that event  :-)  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2021-07-05. Score: 1
  
  This happens, but it's rare and is getting rarer. [Here's](https://tcec-chess.com/#div=p&game=130&season=21) a very recent game between Stoofvlees and Komodo Dragon displaying such eval divergence. The discrepancy was only there for a few moves, too.
  
  **Edit**: As I said this does not happen often and it's getting rarer. Examples of Stockfish-Leela games in the past where it happened are [this game from Season 15](https://tcec-chess.com/#div=sf&game=61&season=15) and [this one from Season 18](https://tcec-chess.com/#div=sf&game=13&season=18); both games are over a year old at this point and involve versions >100 elo weaker than today's.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: this case is not so interesting because the two evalutions are always of the same sign  
  > **username_2**: @username_0 not exactly - on move 138 Stoofvlees was +ve and Komodo Dragon was -ve.  
  > **username_0**: yes, but very tiny difference  
  > **username_2**: @username_0 we're lucky there's even divergence in the first place. If you can find a position with a substantial eval divergence between today's Stockfish/Leela, I'm sure Jeroen (the person who makes the TCEC opening books for the suprefinal) will be interested.  
  > **username_0**: I found some interesting games between the two, but not so big gaps  
  
  ---
  
  