Answers.Body: <p>To complement Daniel's answer: Black often aims for the solid Hanham setup with <code>Nf6</code>, <code>Nbd7</code>and <code>Be7</code> without surrendering the center. The problem is to find a suitable move order from the position</p>
  
  <pre><code>   [FEN ""]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3.d4
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>If black plays <code>3...Nf6</code>, then white gets pressure and a solid plus after <code>4.dxe5 Nxe4 5.Qd5!</code></p>
  
  <pre><code>   [FEN ""]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.dxe5 Nxe4 5.Qd5!
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>Black can try <code>3...Nd7</code> first, but then the problem is to find a good move after <code>4.Bc4</code>.</p>
  
  <pre><code>   [FEN ""]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nd7 4.Bc4 (4...c6 5.O-O Be7 6.dxe5 dxe5 7.Ng5! Bxg5 8.Qh5) (4...Be7 5.dxe5! Nxe5 (5...dxe5 6.Qd5) 6.Nxe5 dxe5 7.Qh5) (4...Ngf6 5.Ng5) 4...
  </code></pre>
  
  <p><code>4... Ngf6</code> loses because of <code>5.Ng5</code>.</p>
  
  <p><code>4...Be7</code> is bad due to the less obvious <code>5.dxe5! Nxe5 (5...dxe5 6.Qd5) 6.Nxe5 dxe5 7.Qh5</code></p>
  
  <p><code>4...c6</code> is probably best, but loses the bishop pair after <code>5.O-O Be7 6.dxe5 dxe5 7.Ng5! Bxg5 8.Qh5</code></p>
  
  <p>The best way to reach the Hanham is probably with the radically different move order <code>1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 Nbd7</code>, although white then has the option of exchanging into a slightly better endgame with <code>4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8 Kxd8</code>.</p>
  
  <pre><code>     [FEN ""]
  1. e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 (4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8 Kxd8) Nbd7
  </code></pre>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2013-10-22T03:55:18.040Z
Answers.Text: Another move order that's close to your last one (and my preference when I occasionally play the Philidor): `1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nbd7 4.Nf3 e5`. This avoids the quick endgame possibility in your `3.Nc3 e5` line; of course it gives White options like `4.f4`, but I've always liked the positions that then arise after `4...e5` myself.
Answers.UserDisplayName: ETD
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2013-10-21T19:38:01.580Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2013-10-21T19:43:24.790Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2013-10-21T19:43:24.790Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Dag Oskar Madsen
Answers.Body: <p>Against the Philidor you might experiment with a line I developed myself (don't know how good it is), but if they surrender the center (i.e. exd4), then I develop a setup where I fianchetto the dark-squared bishop on b2, play f3 at some early point (with perhaps a later f4). I usually stick the other bishop on d3 then if they chop it with a knight I take back with the c-pawn, getting a better center than Black at the cost of bishop vs. knight. I usually can start up some sort of middlegame kingside pawn majority attack as a result of all this and create mate threats by Qe1-g3 along with the bishop at b2. It seems to work fairly well but I'm sure some IM/GM could refute the whole thing. Not like we regularly play against those guys though.  :)</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T14:46:53.333Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2012-05-09T14:46:53.333Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Quantum Elf
Answers.Body: <p>I've always played Morphy's lines. Yes, Nxd4 is probably a little better positionally but Qxd4 leads to a maze of tactics and traps that black probably isn't prepared for.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-05-11T03:56:45.417Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2022-05-11T03:56:45.417Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Savage47
Answers.Body: <p><code>3. d4</code> is the usual move after <code>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6</code>.  <em><a href="http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Chess_Opening_Theory/1._e4/1...e5/2._Nf3/2...d6" rel="noreferrer">Chess Opening Theory</a></em> states that it is probably the best move, and also concedes <code>3. Bc4</code>:</p>
  <blockquote>
  <p>The best move is probably <code>3. d4</code>. White threatens a queen exchange with <code>dxe5 dxe5 Qxd8+ Kxd8</code> and Black can forget about castling. It puts pressure on the center and the Black fortress may collapse at any time.</p>
  <p>Another possibility is <code>3. Bc4</code> leading to a more positional game, playable for both camps.</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p><a href="https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/0671768956" rel="noreferrer" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Fred Reinfeld</a> suggests the following line (exclamation marks are his) as in <a href="http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1341027" rel="noreferrer">this game</a>.  White maintains a sharp edge:</p>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;&quot;]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3.d4 exd4 4. Qxd4! Nc6 5. Bb5! Bd7 6. Bxc6 Bxc6 7. Nc3 Nf6 8. Bg5 Be7 9. O-O-O
  </code></pre>
  <p>A good resource to study would be shredderchess.com's <a href="http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/opening-database.html" rel="noreferrer">opening database</a>.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-05-11T06:51:32.850Z
Answers.Text: 3....exd4 is definitely not the main option for Black in the Philidor though
Answers.UserDisplayName: David
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T15:00:54.263Z
Answers.Text: Daniel, thanks for the great insight.  By the way, what did you use to make your image?
Answers.UserDisplayName: xaisoft
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T15:08:44.423Z
Answers.Text: I'm a free member of chess.com.  What I did here was go to the chessgames.com game I linked above, view the [PGN](http://www.chessgames.com/perl/nph-chesspgn?text=1&gid=1341027), copy it, go to chess.com forums and opened a [new post](http://www.chess.com/forum/post.html), clicked on the "Insert position" icon, and copied the PGN file into the popup.  Then I clicked through to move 9 and took a screenshot, saved it, and uploaded it.  Too complicated :)
Answers.UserDisplayName: Daniel
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T15:21:36.020Z
Answers.Text: Yeah, having some way to do this automatically while adding content here would be awesome. Even if it required typing/pasting in PGN or FEN.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Eve Freeman
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T15:29:36.023Z
Answers.Text: http://www.chessvideos.tv/chess-diagram-generator.php also works well for creating diagrams - you can setup a position or paste a FEN string.
  
  For pgn, try the [Game Replayer](http://www.chessvideos.tv/chess-game-uploader.php)
Answers.UserDisplayName: Andrew
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T15:35:14.193Z
Answers.Text: The Reinfeld reference is a bit outdated, I believe current praxis is not to play 4...Nc6 but 4...a6.  Instead of 4. Qxd4, 4. Nxd4 is preferred.
Answers.UserDisplayName: PeskyGnat
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T15:55:50.573Z
Answers.Text: `4... a6` is better, in fact it is better enough that that is probably why 4 Nxd4 is preferred.  Still, [Shredderchess](http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/opening-database.html) gives a win % for White of 59.2% (out of 470 games) for 4 Nxd4 and 59.2% (out of 130 games) for 4.Qxd4.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Daniel
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T16:14:22.063Z
Answers.Text: Based on Shredderchess stats, a good line for White (with `4. Nxd4`) would be something like `1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3.d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Be7 6. Bf4 O-O 7. Qd2 Nc6 8. O-O-O` with a similarly strong position to Reinfeld's.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Daniel
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T14:50:53.183Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2012-12-18T14:42:05.827Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2020-06-17T09:59:59.497Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Daniel
Body: <p>As white, I often encounter the Philidor Defense by black:  </p>
  
  <pre><code>[FEN ""]
  
  1. e4 e5
  2. Nf3 d6
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>I usually play <code>Nc3</code> or <code>d4</code> on the next move, but is this the best move? What are some lines (advantages or disadvantages) against the Philidor?</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T14:25:14.820Z
Comments.Text: Reminds one of the [Légal Trap](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9gal_Trap) - 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 d6 4. Nc3 Bg4 5. h3 Bh5 6. Nxe5 Bxd1 Bxf7+ Ke7 7. Nd5#)
Comments.UserDisplayName: Daniel
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T14:31:17.870Z
Comments.Text: These traps are great in theory, but I hardly find one who falls for them nowadays
Comments.UserDisplayName: xaisoft
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2012-05-09T14:40:56.720Z
Comments.Text: Yeah, I wouldn't go for it as White or fall for it as Black.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Daniel
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2012-05-17T06:56:40.970Z
Comments.Text: @Danielδ could you update your comment? The second and third moves for black are the same(d6)
Comments.UserDisplayName: Valentin Brasso
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2012-05-17T14:11:39.907Z
Comments.Text: Oops... should be `2. ... Nc6`  Sorry!
Comments.UserDisplayName: Daniel
Tags: <opening><theory><philidor-defense>
Title: How should I play against the Philidor defense?
ThreadText: # How should I play against the Philidor defense?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2012-05-09)
  
  As white, I often encounter the Philidor Defense by black:
  
  ```
  [FEN ""]
  
  1. e4 e5
  2. Nf3 d6
  
  ```
  
  I usually play `Nc3` or `d4` on the next move, but is this the best move? What are some lines (advantages or disadvantages) against the Philidor?
  
  **Tags:** opening, theory, philidor-defense
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Reminds one of the [Légal Trap](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9gal_Trap) - 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 d6 4. Nc3 Bg4 5. h3 Bh5 6. Nxe5 Bxd1 Bxf7+ Ke7 7. Nd5#)  
  > **username_0**: These traps are great in theory, but I hardly find one who falls for them nowadays  
  > **username_1**: Yeah, I wouldn't go for it as White or fall for it as Black.  
  > **username_2**: @Danielδ could you update your comment? The second and third moves for black are the same(d6)  
  > **username_1**: Oops... should be `2. ... Nc6`  Sorry!  
  
  ---
  
  ## 4 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2012-05-09. Score: 9 | Accepted answer
  
  `3. d4` is the usual move after `1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6`. *[Chess Opening Theory](http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Chess_Opening_Theory/1._e4/1...e5/2._Nf3/2...d6)* states that it is probably the best move, and also concedes `3. Bc4`:
  
  > The best move is probably `3. d4`. White threatens a queen exchange with `dxe5 dxe5 Qxd8+ Kxd8` and Black can forget about castling. It puts pressure on the center and the Black fortress may collapse at any time.
  >
  > Another possibility is `3. Bc4` leading to a more positional game, playable for both camps.
  
  [Fred Reinfeld](https://rads.stackoverflow.com/amzn/click/com/0671768956) suggests the following line (exclamation marks are his) as in [this game](http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1341027). White maintains a sharp edge:
  
  ```
  [FEN ""]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3.d4 exd4 4. Qxd4! Nc6 5. Bb5! Bd7 6. Bxc6 Bxc6 7. Nc3 Nf6 8. Bg5 Be7 9. O-O-O
  
  ```
  
  A good resource to study would be shredderchess.com's [opening database](http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/opening-database.html).
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: username_1, thanks for the great insight.  By the way, what did you use to make your image?  
  > **username_1**: I'm a free member of chess.com.  What I did here was go to the chessgames.com game I linked above, view the [PGN](http://www.chessgames.com/perl/nph-chesspgn?text=1&gid=1341027), copy it, go to chess.com forums and opened a [new post](http://www.chess.com/forum/post.html), clicked on the "Insert position" icon, and copied the PGN file into the popup.  Then I clicked through to move 9 and took a screenshot, saved it, and uploaded it.  Too complicated :)  
  > **username_8**: Yeah, having some way to do this automatically while adding content here would be awesome. Even if it required typing/pasting in PGN or FEN.  
  > **username_9**: http://www.chessvideos.tv/chess-diagram-generator.php also works well for creating diagrams - you can setup a position or paste a FEN string.  For pgn, try the [Game Replayer](http://www.chessvideos.tv/chess-game-uploader.php)  
  > **username_10**: The Reinfeld reference is a bit outdated, I believe current praxis is not to play 4...Nc6 but 4...a6.  Instead of 4. Qxd4, 4. Nxd4 is preferred.  
  > **username_1**: `4... a6` is better, in fact it is better enough that that is probably why 4 Nxd4 is preferred.  Still, [Shredderchess](http://www.shredderchess.com/online-chess/online-databases/opening-database.html) gives a win % for White of 59.2% (out of 470 games) for 4 Nxd4 and 59.2% (out of 130 games) for 4.Qxd4.  
  > **username_1**: Based on Shredderchess stats, a good line for White (with `4. Nxd4`) would be something like `1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3.d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Be7 6. Bf4 O-O 7. Qd2 Nc6 8. O-O-O` with a similarly strong position to Reinfeld's.  
  > **username_7**: 3....exd4 is definitely not the main option for Black in the Philidor though  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_3 on 2013-10-21. Score: 7
  
  To complement username_1's answer: Black often aims for the solid Hanham setup with `Nf6`, `Nbd7`and `Be7` without surrendering the center. The problem is to find a suitable move order from the position
  
  ```
     [FEN ""]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3.d4
  
  ```
  
  If black plays `3...Nf6`, then white gets pressure and a solid plus after `4.dxe5 Nxe4 5.Qd5!`
  
  ```
     [FEN ""]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.dxe5 Nxe4 5.Qd5!
  
  ```
  
  Black can try `3...Nd7` first, but then the problem is to find a good move after `4.Bc4`.
  
  ```
     [FEN ""]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nd7 4.Bc4 (4...c6 5.O-O Be7 6.dxe5 dxe5 7.Ng5! Bxg5 8.Qh5) (4...Be7 5.dxe5! Nxe5 (5...dxe5 6.Qd5) 6.Nxe5 dxe5 7.Qh5) (4...Ngf6 5.Ng5) 4...
  
  ```
  
  `4... Ngf6` loses because of `5.Ng5`.
  
  `4...Be7` is bad due to the less obvious `5.dxe5! Nxe5 (5...dxe5 6.Qd5) 6.Nxe5 dxe5 7.Qh5`
  
  `4...c6` is probably best, but loses the bishop pair after `5.O-O Be7 6.dxe5 dxe5 7.Ng5! Bxg5 8.Qh5`
  
  The best way to reach the Hanham is probably with the radically different move order `1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 Nbd7`, although white then has the option of exchanging into a slightly better endgame with `4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8 Kxd8`.
  
  ```
       [FEN ""]
  1. e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 (4.dxe5 dxe5 5.Qxd8 Kxd8) Nbd7
  
  ```
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_4**: Another move order that's close to your last one (and my preference when I occasionally play the Philidor): `1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 Nbd7 4.Nf3 e5`. This avoids the quick endgame possibility in your `3.Nc3 e5` line; of course it gives White options like `4.f4`, but I've always liked the positions that then arise after `4...e5` myself.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_5 on 2012-05-09. Score: 2
  
  Against the Philidor you might experiment with a line I developed myself (don't know how good it is), but if they surrender the center (i.e. exd4), then I develop a setup where I fianchetto the dark-squared bishop on b2, play f3 at some early point (with perhaps a later f4). I usually stick the other bishop on d3 then if they chop it with a knight I take back with the c-pawn, getting a better center than Black at the cost of bishop vs. knight. I usually can start up some sort of middlegame kingside pawn majority attack as a result of all this and create mate threats by Qe1-g3 along with the bishop at b2. It seems to work fairly well but I'm sure some IM/GM could refute the whole thing. Not like we regularly play against those guys though. :)
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_6 on 2022-05-11. Score: 0
  
  I've always played Morphy's lines. Yes, Nxd4 is probably a little better positionally but Qxd4 leads to a maze of tactics and traps that black probably isn't prepared for.
  
  
  ---
  
  