Answers.Body: <p>White has a forced win of a bunch of material after either <code>4... g6</code> or <code>4... Ke7</code>, but if you're into silly "psychological" justifications for moves, you could argue that <code>4... Ke7</code> makes White think a little harder to find the win, while Black can prep it.</p>
  
  <pre><code>4. ... Ke7 
  5. Qxe5+ Kf7 
  6. Bc4+ d5
  7. Bxd5+ Kg6
  8. h4 h6
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>This is the only line that leaves White with an <em>overwhelming</em> advantage; for instance, one game between relatively weak players continued:</p>
  
  <pre><code>8. Qg3+? Qg5
  9. Qxc7 Ne7
  10. Qd6+? [h4!] Kh5
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>(<a href="http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1600892" rel="noreferrer">Feng-Sloan 2010</a>)</p>
  
  <p>After which Black <em>looks</em> hopeless... </p>
  
  <p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/w8qJK.png" alt="chess diagram"></p>
  
  <p>...but is actually just bad.</p>
  
  <p>However, you may already know that if White plays correctly up to <code>8 ... h6</code>, they have a killer 9th move that picks up material. Here's a diagram as an exercise for the reader:</p>
  
  <p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/YW7sf.png" alt="chess diagram"></p>
  
  <p>(<a href="http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1497133" rel="noreferrer">answer</a>)</p>
  
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Answers.Body: <p>This opening is also known as the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damiano_Defence" rel="nofollow">Damiano Defense</a> and it is just bad.  </p>
  
  <p>In the line you gave, where black plays <code>6... Nf6</code>, white's best plan is to play <code>d3</code> and <code>Bg5</code>.  Black can't move the bishop because it is pinned (so the queen can't be trapped until black castles).</p>
  
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Answers.Body: <p>No, the Damiano Defense does not lose by force so it's not a bad opening.</p>
  
  <p>If you analyze it with a computer you won't be able to find a variation that wins for white against best play.</p>
  
  <p>After <code>1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5</code>, playing <code>3...fxe5</code> will lose for black but playing <code>3...Qe7</code> will hold the game. For example check out the game <a href="http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1255180" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Fischer vs McGregor</a>, 1964 (<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOMfveWenSw" rel="nofollow noreferrer">here's a version with commentary on YouTube</a>), which ended in a draw.</p>
  
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Answers.Text: Btw, this answer does not hold up with modern engines. E.g. in the Fischer game there was 8.Nc3! when after 8...Qxc2 9.Qd4! the Black queen is quite low on squares. One possible continuation would be 9...Nc6 10. Qe3+ Be7? 11. 0-0 Bg6 12.g4! 0-0-0 13.Ne1 wins the queen. Black does not have to go for this of course, however, it does appear as though White should win with best play.
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Valentin Brasso
Answers.Body: <p>The damiano cannot protect the pawn and weakens kingside. Just say, damiano himself is pretty annoyed by it getting named after him.</p>
  
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Answers.Body: <p>After </p>
  
  <pre><code>1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5 fxe5 4.Qh5+ g6 5.Qxe5+ Qe7 6.Qxh8 Nf6
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>with ideas of trapping the queen, <code>7. d3</code> followed by <code>Bg5</code> or <code>Bh6</code> and there won't be any issues getting the queen out, e.g.:</p>
  
  <pre><code>7.d3 d5 8.Bg5 Nbd7 9.Nc3 b6 10.0-0-0 Bb7 11.e5
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>Black can try to minimize the damage after <code>2...f6?</code> with something like <code>3.Nxe5 Qe7</code></p>
  
  <p>You aren't losing the exchange any more, but you've still destroyed your position with <code>...f6</code>.  </p>
  
  <p><code>2... f6</code> should be avoided.</p>
  
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Body: <p>There seems to be a pretty nifty attack for White after  <code>1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6</code>:</p>
  
  <pre><code>[FEN ""]
  
  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5 fxe5 4.Qh5+ g6 5.Qxe5+ Qe7 6.Qxh8
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>I've played as White with this opening several times, always to my advantage (usually Black panics and plays <code>4 ... Ke7</code>, soon after which he finds ample reason to resign).  But once someone played as shown above, and went on with</p>
  
  <pre><code>6. ...     Nf6,
    etc.
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>to try and put my queen on the spot.  Presumably he intended to follow up with moves such as <code>...b6</code>, <code>...Bb7</code> or similar, <code>...Nc3</code> or similar, <code>...O-O-O</code>, and then <code>...Bg7</code> forcing Qxd8.  Since it was a blitz game, best play was not made, and he made a mistake allowing my queen to escape, but it got me thinking.  Is there some way Black can recover from <code>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6?</code></p>
  
  <p>My question especially regards <code>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6 3. Nxe5 fxe5 4. Qh5+ g6 5. Qxe5+ Qe7 6. Qxh8</code> (as shown above) - is there a way to trap White's Q?  Or is <code>3... fxe5</code> simply a bad move?  Should <code>2... f6</code> be avoided altogether?</p>
  
Tags: <opening><strategy><queens><captures><damiano-defense>
Title: Does 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6 have to be a bad opening?
ThreadText: # Does 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6 have to be a bad opening?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2012-05-02)
  
  There seems to be a pretty nifty attack for White after `1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6`:
  
  ```
  [FEN ""]
  
  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5 fxe5 4.Qh5+ g6 5.Qxe5+ Qe7 6.Qxh8
  
  ```
  
  I've played as White with this opening several times, always to my advantage (usually Black panics and plays `4 ... Ke7`, soon after which he finds ample reason to resign). But once someone played as shown above, and went on with
  
  ```
  6. ...     Nf6,
    etc.
  
  ```
  
  to try and put my queen on the spot. Presumably he intended to follow up with moves such as `...b6`, `...Bb7` or similar, `...Nc3` or similar, `...O-O-O`, and then `...Bg7` forcing Qxd8. Since it was a blitz game, best play was not made, and he made a mistake allowing my queen to escape, but it got me thinking. Is there some way Black can recover from `1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6?`
  
  My question especially regards `1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6 3. Nxe5 fxe5 4. Qh5+ g6 5. Qxe5+ Qe7 6. Qxh8` (as shown above) - is there a way to trap White's Q? Or is `3... fxe5` simply a bad move? Should `2... f6` be avoided altogether?
  
  **Tags:** opening, strategy, queens, captures, damiano-defense
  
  
  ---
  
  ## 5 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_6 on 2012-05-02. Score: 15 | Accepted answer
  
  After
  
  ```
  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5 fxe5 4.Qh5+ g6 5.Qxe5+ Qe7 6.Qxh8 Nf6
  
  ```
  
  with ideas of trapping the queen, `7. d3` followed by `Bg5` or `Bh6` and there won't be any issues getting the queen out, e.g.:
  
  ```
  7.d3 d5 8.Bg5 Nbd7 9.Nc3 b6 10.0-0-0 Bb7 11.e5
  
  ```
  
  Black can try to minimize the damage after `2...f6?` with something like `3.Nxe5 Qe7`
  
  You aren't losing the exchange any more, but you've still destroyed your position with `...f6`.
  
  `2... f6` should be avoided.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2012-05-23. Score: 11
  
  White has a forced win of a bunch of material after either `4... g6` or `4... Ke7`, but if you're into silly "psychological" justifications for moves, you could argue that `4... Ke7` makes White think a little harder to find the win, while Black can prep it.
  
  ```
  4. ... Ke7 
  5. Qxe5+ Kf7 
  6. Bc4+ d5
  7. Bxd5+ Kg6
  8. h4 h6
  
  ```
  
  This is the only line that leaves White with an *overwhelming* advantage; for instance, one game between relatively weak players continued:
  
  ```
  8. Qg3+? Qg5
  9. Qxc7 Ne7
  10. Qd6+? [h4!] Kh5
  
  ```
  
  ([Feng-Sloan 2010](http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1600892))
  
  After which Black *looks* hopeless...
  
  ![chess diagram](https://i.sstatic.net/w8qJK.png)
  
  ...but is actually just bad.
  
  However, you may already know that if White plays correctly up to `8 ... h6`, they have a killer 9th move that picks up material. Here's a diagram as an exercise for the reader:
  
  ![chess diagram](https://i.sstatic.net/YW7sf.png)
  
  ([answer](http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1497133))
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2012-05-02. Score: 5
  
  This opening is also known as the [Damiano Defense](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damiano_Defence) and it is just bad.
  
  In the line you gave, where black plays `6... Nf6`, white's best plan is to play `d3` and `Bg5`. Black can't move the bishop because it is pinned (so the queen can't be trapped until black castles).
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_3 on 2012-05-23. Score: 3
  
  No, the Damiano Defense does not lose by force so it's not a bad opening.
  
  If you analyze it with a computer you won't be able to find a variation that wins for white against best play.
  
  After `1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f6 3.Nxe5`, playing `3...fxe5` will lose for black but playing `3...Qe7` will hold the game. For example check out the game [Fischer vs McGregor](http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1255180), 1964 ([here's a version with commentary on YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOMfveWenSw)), which ended in a draw.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_4**: Btw, this answer does not hold up with modern engines. E.g. in the Fischer game there was 8.Nc3! when after 8...Qxc2 9.Qd4! the Black queen is quite low on squares. One possible continuation would be 9...Nc6 10. Qe3+ Be7? 11. 0-0 Bg6 12.g4! 0-0-0 13.Ne1 wins the queen. Black does not have to go for this of course, however, it does appear as though White should win with best play.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_5 on 2020-05-31. Score: -1
  
  The damiano cannot protect the pawn and weakens kingside. Just say, damiano himself is pretty annoyed by it getting named after him.
  
  
  ---
  
  