Answers.Body: <p>While it's a gambit by Black, what about Tal's gambit?  Black is scoring 55% in 228 grandmaster and elite correspondence games after 1 e4 c5; 2 f4 d5; 3 exd5 Nf6.  I'd call Black doing better than 50% in that many top games an advantage.  (And 55% is better than Black's score in any of the main non-gambit responses to 2 f4.)</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-11-09T13:21:30.273Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2019-11-09T13:21:30.273Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: C Monsour
Answers.Body: <p>Games 61/62 of the 17th TCEC season featured such a gambit:</p>
  
  <pre><code>[FEN ""]
  1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 c5 3. d5 Qb6 4. Nc3
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>White gambits the b2-pawn. After 4...Qxb2 5. Bd2, Stockfish evaluated the position as <a href="https://www.tcec-chess.com/archive.html?season=17&amp;div=sf&amp;game=61" rel="noreferrer">+0.61 for White</a>. In <a href="https://www.tcec-chess.com/archive.html?season=17&amp;div=sf&amp;game=62" rel="noreferrer">the reverse game</a>, Leela gave White a +0.49 advantage after the same moves.</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-05-13T07:25:41.170Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2020-05-13T07:25:41.170Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Allure
Answers.Body: <p>You can play the Queen's gambit if you go for 3.Nf3, actually offering your opponent a chance to stick to the pawn later on, so even if it's not a "real gambit" at move 2, you can turn it into one later on. The position often gives white a small advantage.</p>
  
  <p>Another interesting possibility is the From's Gambit (1.f4 e5 fxe5 d6 exd6 Bxd6) which is often said to at least equalize (not bad being Black)</p>
  
  <p>Anyway, I wouldn't trust the engine's evaluation in the opening (if we did, we'd be playing 1.Nc3 all day long!) If the Danish Gambit really leads to -0.48 while beign two pawns down, it probably means White is actually better unless there is some good obvious continuation for Black!. And this is assuming the engine's opinion is "not that wrong". For example, the Evans Gambit is not played because Black can equalize, not because it can get a -0.6 position.</p>
  
  <p>By the way, what about the Scotch Gambit?</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-07-19T09:50:06.347Z
Answers.Text: The Danish Gambit after 3.c3 White is not yet 2 pawns down as he can play 4.Nxc3 instead of offering the 2nd pawn. I bet Stockfish considers 4.Bc4 worse for White than 4.Nxc3.
Answers.UserDisplayName: bof
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-07-19T11:21:23.590Z
Answers.Text: "For example, I don't think." - I think you forgot to finish a thought there.
Answers.UserDisplayName: D M
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Answers.CreationDate: 2019-07-19T11:46:06.747Z
Answers.Text: @DM Thank you! I was going to talk about the Evans Gambit there, but then editted the paragraph and accidentally left it there!
Answers.UserDisplayName: David
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Answers.CreationDate: 2019-07-21T23:51:18.673Z
Answers.Text: From's Gambit is +0.53, Scotch Gambit -0.14. You can check it yourself using the website in the question (it's free and doesn't require registration). Also I imagine the Evans gambit isn't played because Black getting a -0.6 position is even worse than Black getting equality (which is 0.00), and equality isn't acceptable as White either.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Allure
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-11-11T07:35:59.277Z
Answers.Text: @Allure Position evaluation is much more complex than a number
Answers.UserDisplayName: David
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-07-19T07:19:16.773Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2019-07-19T11:44:56.040Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2019-07-19T11:44:56.040Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: David
Answers.Body: <p>A variation of the Caro Kann, Advance: Tal Variation called Caveman Variation is a &quot;gambit&quot; where White can gambit mere pawns, or whole pieces, but probably will mate. If Black should go for the rook, the imbalance most often is 2 rooks + 2 pawns for the queen in a structure that favors the queen.</p>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;&quot;]
  1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. h4 h5
  5. Bg5 Qb6 6. Bd3 Bxd3 7. Qxd3 Qxb2 8. e6
  </code></pre>
  <p>SF11 at depth ~40 says +0.8, but if you look at human games, White win percentage is huge. There is 6...Qxd4, but play is very artificial, most players who decline do so with 7...e6 or trying to trade queens immediately.</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-07-09T00:16:03.863Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2020-07-09T00:34:09.180Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2020-07-09T00:34:09.180Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: B.Swan
Answers.Body: <p>the fried liver is one of the 2 only real gambit stockfish likes, or the queens gambit. it appears that the benko gambit is one gambit that have big pressure against whites Q side</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-07-08T12:57:36.953Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2020-07-08T12:57:36.953Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: DanishGambiter
Answers.Body: <p>Yes, for example, the <a href="https://www.chess.com/openings/Queens-Indian-Defense-Fianchetto-Classical-Polugaevsky-Gambit" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Polugaevsky gambit</a> has a positive evaluation for White and it was used by AlphaZero against Stockfish back in 2017, producing an absolutely stunning game. Btw, 21. Bg5!! is not a mouse slip and it was considered for some move of the year!</p>
  <pre><code>[fen &quot;&quot;]
  [Startply &quot;21&quot;]
  [Site &quot;London ENG&quot;]
  [Date &quot;2017.12.04&quot;]
  [EventDate &quot;?&quot;]
  [Result &quot;1-0&quot;]
  [White &quot;AlphaZero (Computer)&quot;]
  [Black &quot;Stockfish (Computer)&quot;]
  [ECO &quot;E17&quot;]
  [WhiteElo &quot;?&quot;]
  [BlackElo &quot;?&quot;]
  [PlyCount &quot;233&quot;]
  
  1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Bb7 5. Bg2 Be7 6. O-O O-O 7. d5 exd5 8. Nh4 c6 9. cxd5 Nxd5 10. Nf5 Nc7 11. e4 Bf6 12. Nd6 Ba6 13. Re1 Ne8 14. e5 Nxd6 15. exf6 Qxf6 16. Nc3 Nb7 17. Ne4 Qg6 18. h4 h6 19. h5 Qh7 20. Qg4 Kh8 21. Bg5 f5 22. Qf4 Nc5 23. Be7 Nd3 24. Qd6 Nxe1 25. Rxe1 fxe4 26. Bxe4 Rf5 27. Bh4 Bc4 28. g4 Rd5 29. Bxd5 Bxd5 30. Re8+ Bg8 31. Bg3 c5 32. Qd5 d6 33. Qxa8 Nd7 34. Qe4 Nf6 35. Qxh7+ Kxh7 36. Re7 Nxg4 37. Rxa7... 1-0
  </code></pre>
  
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Answers.LastEditDate: 2023-06-09T10:05:26.167Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: db_max
Answers.Body: <p>Most gambits are going to reach equality at best since even the best openings struggle to maintain a minuscule advantage. </p>
  
  <p>If there is opening it would be when the opponent plays an inferior move like 1.f4 in From's gambit. </p>
  
  <p>If there is a gambit that can play for an advantage I would think it would be Evan's gambit although strangely Stockfish doesn't see black's best line no matter how long you give it to think and the line it does give is not that great.  </p>
  
  <p>I have been playing around with the BMD lately and it looks like white can maintain an edge there although I would imagine it has more to do with the weakness of theory in that line since it is rarely played in modern times. </p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-11-10T02:57:10.350Z
Answers.Text: I give up. What is the BMD?
Answers.UserDisplayName: bof
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-11-10T02:59:39.567Z
Answers.Text: Blackmar Diemer gambit
Answers.UserDisplayName: Savage47
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-11-10T03:03:10.353Z
Answers.Text: BMD for Black Mar Diemer? Okay. I'm used to calling that the BDG.
Answers.UserDisplayName: bof
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Answers.CreationDate: 2019-11-10T02:37:55.237Z
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Savage47
Answers.Body: <p>From the latest TCEC Season 18 Superfinal it even seems the Quaade Gambit is winning by force ,but obviously prudent Black players play (and will play even more , after this discovery) 3 ...d5 instead of ...g5. Giving the pawn back right away.</p>
  
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Answers.LastEditDate: 2020-07-08T19:08:45.357Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Stefano
Body: <p>For this question I'm interested only in gambits that:</p>
  
  <ol>
  <li>Are real gambits. That is, the side that's risking the material actually ends up down material + cannot count on winning the material back. This, e.g., excludes the Queen's Gambit because 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. Qa4+ wins the material back without problems (plus most Queen's Gambit lines don't end with White down material). Also, if the gambit cannot be safely accepted, it's excluded.</li>
  <li>Don't rely on opponent making a mistake. So the Fried Liver Attack 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Nxd5?! 6. Nxf7 doesn't count since 5...Nxd5 is a well-known bad move.</li>
  </ol>
  
  <p>I notice that Stockfish doesn't seem to like gambits. Analyzing using the engine at www.chess.com/analysis, for example:</p>
  
  <ul>
  <li>King's Gambit: 1. e4 e5 2. f4 yields a starting eval of -1.10 (at depth 19).</li>
  <li>Evan's Gambit: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 yields a starting eval of -0.60 (d =19).</li>
  <li>Danish Gambit: 1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 yields a starting eval of -0.48.</li>
  <li>Sicilian Wing Gambit: 1. e4 c5 2. b4 yields a starting eval of -0.44.</li>
  <li>Smith Morra Gambit: 1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 yields a starting eval of -0.19</li>
  <li>Blackmar-Diemer Gambit: 1. d4 d5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. e4 dxe4 4. f3 yields a starting eval of -0.49.</li>
  </ul>
  
  <p>(I'd consider Black gambits as well but those are harder to evaluate since the starting position favors White, and therefore it's not surprising if White has an advantage after Black plays the gambit)</p>
  
  <p>Are there any gambits in which the side that is down material for tempo is advantaged? </p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2019-07-19T06:40:27.953Z
Comments.Text: First and foremost don't believe these numbers - Engines are notoriously bad at evaluating very early game positions (where no obvious mistake has been made)
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ian Bush
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2019-07-20T05:56:57.183Z
Comments.Text: What about Marshall counter gambit? It nearly equalizes for black.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Akavall
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-01-20T20:57:48.637Z
Comments.Text: @Akavall  nearly ?
Comments.UserDisplayName: edwina oliver
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-05-13T18:05:46.133Z
Comments.Text: How is the Benko Gambit faring these days?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-05-14T01:10:01.463Z
Comments.Text: Without a mistake, all games are drawn, so no gambit would meet your criteria.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Mike Jones
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-05-15T04:55:47.623Z
Comments.Text: I think the Vienna Gambit in the form 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. f4 exf4 is good for White, but I suppose you will say that 3...exf4 is a mistake since 3...d5 is at least OK for Black.
Comments.UserDisplayName: bof
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-06-18T01:12:57.963Z
Comments.Text: The problem with the Fried Liver Attack is that it's not the reason 5...Nxd5 is a bad move.  (The reason is the Lolli Attack 6 d4.)  Arguably the Fried Liver Attack fails even to gain an advantage against precise defense.  I assume a gambit response counts if it gains an advantage and is the *only* reason the previous move was a bad move.  For example, the Tal Gambit is the only reason 2 f4 is a bad move against the Sicilian.
Comments.UserDisplayName: C Monsour
Tags: <opening><gambits><material-balance><advantage>
Title: Are there any gambits which yield an advantage for the side down material?
ThreadText: # Are there any gambits which yield an advantage for the side down material?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2019-07-19)
  
  For this question I'm interested only in gambits that:
  
  1. Are real gambits. That is, the side that's risking the material actually ends up down material + cannot count on winning the material back. This, e.g., excludes the Queen's Gambit because 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. Qa4+ wins the material back without problems (plus most Queen's Gambit lines don't end with White down material). Also, if the gambit cannot be safely accepted, it's excluded.
  2. Don't rely on opponent making a mistake. So the Fried Liver Attack 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Nf6 4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Nxd5?! 6. Nxf7 doesn't count since 5...Nxd5 is a well-known bad move.
  
  I notice that Stockfish doesn't seem to like gambits. Analyzing using the engine at www.chess.com/analysis, for example:
  
  * King's Gambit: 1. e4 e5 2. f4 yields a starting eval of -1.10 (at depth 19).
  * Evan's Gambit: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. b4 yields a starting eval of -0.60 (d =19).
  * Danish Gambit: 1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 yields a starting eval of -0.48.
  * Sicilian Wing Gambit: 1. e4 c5 2. b4 yields a starting eval of -0.44.
  * Smith Morra Gambit: 1. e4 c5 2. d4 cxd4 3. c3 yields a starting eval of -0.19
  * Blackmar-Diemer Gambit: 1. d4 d5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. e4 dxe4 4. f3 yields a starting eval of -0.49.
  
  (I'd consider Black gambits as well but those are harder to evaluate since the starting position favors White, and therefore it's not surprising if White has an advantage after Black plays the gambit)
  
  Are there any gambits in which the side that is down material for tempo is advantaged?
  
  **Tags:** opening, gambits, material-balance, advantage
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: First and foremost don't believe these numbers - Engines are notoriously bad at evaluating very early game positions (where no obvious mistake has been made)  
  > **username_2**: What about Marshall counter gambit? It nearly equalizes for black.  
  > **username_3**: @username_2  nearly ?  
  > **username_4**: How is the Benko Gambit faring these days?  
  > **username_5**: Without a mistake, all games are drawn, so no gambit would meet your criteria.  
  > **username_6**: I think the Vienna Gambit in the form 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. f4 exf4 is good for White, but I suppose you will say that 3...exf4 is a mistake since 3...d5 is at least OK for Black.  
  > **username_7**: The problem with the Fried Liver Attack is that it's not the reason 5...Nxd5 is a bad move.  (The reason is the Lolli Attack 6 d4.)  Arguably the Fried Liver Attack fails even to gain an advantage against precise defense.  I assume a gambit response counts if it gains an advantage and is the *only* reason the previous move was a bad move.  For example, the Tal Gambit is the only reason 2 f4 is a bad move against the Sicilian.  
  
  ---
  
  ## 8 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_7 on 2019-11-09. Score: 10
  
  While it's a gambit by Black, what about Tal's gambit? Black is scoring 55% in 228 grandmaster and elite correspondence games after 1 e4 c5; 2 f4 d5; 3 exd5 Nf6. I'd call Black doing better than 50% in that many top games an advantage. (And 55% is better than Black's score in any of the main non-gambit responses to 2 f4.)
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_0 on 2020-05-13. Score: 7
  
  Games 61/62 of the 17th TCEC season featured such a gambit:
  
  ```
  [FEN ""]
  1. d4 Nf6 2. Bg5 c5 3. d5 Qb6 4. Nc3
  
  ```
  
  White gambits the b2-pawn. After 4...Qxb2 5. Bd2, Stockfish evaluated the position as [+0.61 for White](https://www.tcec-chess.com/archive.html?season=17&div=sf&game=61). In [the reverse game](https://www.tcec-chess.com/archive.html?season=17&div=sf&game=62), Leela gave White a +0.49 advantage after the same moves.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_8 on 2019-07-19. Score: 5
  
  You can play the Queen's gambit if you go for 3.Nf3, actually offering your opponent a chance to stick to the pawn later on, so even if it's not a "real gambit" at move 2, you can turn it into one later on. The position often gives white a small advantage.
  
  Another interesting possibility is the From's Gambit (1.f4 e5 fxe5 d6 exd6 Bxd6) which is often said to at least equalize (not bad being Black)
  
  Anyway, I wouldn't trust the engine's evaluation in the opening (if we did, we'd be playing 1.Nc3 all day long!) If the Danish Gambit really leads to -0.48 while beign two pawns down, it probably means White is actually better unless there is some good obvious continuation for Black!. And this is assuming the engine's opinion is "not that wrong". For example, the Evans Gambit is not played because Black can equalize, not because it can get a -0.6 position.
  
  By the way, what about the Scotch Gambit?
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_6**: The Danish Gambit after 3.c3 White is not yet 2 pawns down as he can play 4.Nxc3 instead of offering the 2nd pawn. I bet Stockfish considers 4.Bc4 worse for White than 4.Nxc3.  
  > **username_9**: "For example, I don't think." - I think you forgot to finish a thought there.  
  > **username_8**: @DM Thank you! I was going to talk about the Evans Gambit there, but then editted the paragraph and accidentally left it there!  
  > **username_0**: From's Gambit is +0.53, Scotch Gambit -0.14. You can check it yourself using the website in the question (it's free and doesn't require registration). Also I imagine the Evans gambit isn't played because Black getting a -0.6 position is even worse than Black getting equality (which is 0.00), and equality isn't acceptable as White either.  
  > **username_8**: @username_0 Position evaluation is much more complex than a number  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_10 on 2020-07-09. Score: 2
  
  A variation of the Caro Kann, Advance: Tal Variation called Caveman Variation is a "gambit" where White can gambit mere pawns, or whole pieces, but probably will mate. If Black should go for the rook, the imbalance most often is 2 rooks + 2 pawns for the queen in a structure that favors the queen.
  
  ```
  [FEN ""]
  1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. e5 Bf5 4. h4 h5
  5. Bg5 Qb6 6. Bd3 Bxd3 7. Qxd3 Qxb2 8. e6
  
  ```
  
  SF11 at depth ~40 says +0.8, but if you look at human games, White win percentage is huge. There is 6...Qxd4, but play is very artificial, most players who decline do so with 7...e6 or trying to trade queens immediately.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_11 on 2020-07-08. Score: 1
  
  the fried liver is one of the 2 only real gambit stockfish likes, or the queens gambit. it appears that the benko gambit is one gambit that have big pressure against whites Q side
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_12 on 2023-06-09. Score: 1
  
  Yes, for example, the [Polugaevsky gambit](https://www.chess.com/openings/Queens-Indian-Defense-Fianchetto-Classical-Polugaevsky-Gambit) has a positive evaluation for White and it was used by AlphaZero against Stockfish back in 2017, producing an absolutely stunning game. Btw, 21. Bg5!! is not a mouse slip and it was considered for some move of the year!
  
  ```
  [fen ""]
  [Startply "21"]
  [Site "London ENG"]
  [Date "2017.12.04"]
  [EventDate "?"]
  [Result "1-0"]
  [White "AlphaZero (Computer)"]
  [Black "Stockfish (Computer)"]
  [ECO "E17"]
  [WhiteElo "?"]
  [BlackElo "?"]
  [PlyCount "233"]
  
  1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Bb7 5. Bg2 Be7 6. O-O O-O 7. d5 exd5 8. Nh4 c6 9. cxd5 Nxd5 10. Nf5 Nc7 11. e4 Bf6 12. Nd6 Ba6 13. Re1 Ne8 14. e5 Nxd6 15. exf6 Qxf6 16. Nc3 Nb7 17. Ne4 Qg6 18. h4 h6 19. h5 Qh7 20. Qg4 Kh8 21. Bg5 f5 22. Qf4 Nc5 23. Be7 Nd3 24. Qd6 Nxe1 25. Rxe1 fxe4 26. Bxe4 Rf5 27. Bh4 Bc4 28. g4 Rd5 29. Bxd5 Bxd5 30. Re8+ Bg8 31. Bg3 c5 32. Qd5 d6 33. Qxa8 Nd7 34. Qe4 Nf6 35. Qxh7+ Kxh7 36. Re7 Nxg4 37. Rxa7... 1-0
  
  ```
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_13 on 2019-11-10. Score: 0
  
  Most gambits are going to reach equality at best since even the best openings struggle to maintain a minuscule advantage.
  
  If there is opening it would be when the opponent plays an inferior move like 1.f4 in From's gambit.
  
  If there is a gambit that can play for an advantage I would think it would be Evan's gambit although strangely Stockfish doesn't see black's best line no matter how long you give it to think and the line it does give is not that great.
  
  I have been playing around with the BMD lately and it looks like white can maintain an edge there although I would imagine it has more to do with the weakness of theory in that line since it is rarely played in modern times.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_6**: I give up. What is the BMD?  
  > **username_13**: Blackmar Diemer gambit  
  > **username_6**: BMD for Black Mar Diemer? Okay. I'm used to calling that the BDG.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_14 on 2020-07-08. Score: 0
  
  From the latest TCEC Season 18 Superfinal it even seems the Quaade Gambit is winning by force ,but obviously prudent Black players play (and will play even more , after this discovery) 3 ...d5 instead of ...g5. Giving the pawn back right away.
  
  
  ---
  
  