Answers.Body: <p>D5 is fine to play, but it is commital and a bit lacking in mobility. I probably wouldn't play it. </p>
  
  <p>Nf3 does a good job preventing a quick e5, and e4 claims the center nicely. Neither are too commital and leave room for all kinds of options.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-08-13T18:47:59.390Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2017-08-13T18:47:59.390Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Hockeyfan19
Answers.Body: <p>Your statistics don't seem likely to be accurate.</p>
  <p>From <a href="https://www.365chess.com/opening.php" rel="nofollow noreferrer">365chess.com</a>, the most common responses are:</p>
  <pre><code>        times    win   draw   loss    eval
  2. Nf3  1,455   42.9   29.2   27.9   +0.42
  2. c4     566   41.7   25.1   33.2   +0.49
  2. d5     396   49.7   21.5   28.8   +0.57
  2. e4     343   49.6   17.5   32.9   +0.20
  </code></pre>
  <p>As you can see, according to these statistics 2. d5 is actually more common than 2. e4 (although still much less than 2. Nf3), and it scores best both in practice (take that with a pinch of salt as the sample size is so small) and on evaluation. So I doubt there is anything wrong with this move.</p>
  <p>Perhaps your statistics are for position rather than exact sequence of moves, as 1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 appears more than 4,000 times in the same database.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-10-17T08:44:50.010Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2020-10-17T08:44:50.010Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Especially Lime
Answers.Body: <p>Just the opinion of a 2000 player.</p>
  
  <pre><code>
  [fen ""]
  
  1. d4 Nc6 2. d5 Ne5 3. f4 Ng6 4. e4 e6
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>The idea of this opening, and others like the Alekhine and the Two Knights Tango, is to lure the white pawns forward to make them easier to attack.  Black gets a very cramped game, but it is playable.</p>
  
  <pre><code>
  [fen ""]
  
  1. d4 Nc6 2. Nf3 d5 3. c4
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>The main purpose of Nf3 is to prevent black's knight from using that square.  After normal moves, black will find that blocking the c-pawn advance is considered bad.</p>
  
  <p>One of the general objectives in openings is to control the center.  White can attack black's center with the c-pawn, yet black can't support this with his own pawn.  This leads to a small increase in white's advantage.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T04:25:05.743Z
Answers.Text: After 1.d4 Nc6 2.d5 Ne5 3.f4 Ng6 4.e4 instead of 4...e6 Black can play 4...e5 which ends up the same after 5.dxe6 but can be fun if White goes for 5.f5?! Qh4+ as in a famous 1938 Weinitschke–Bogoljubow game.
Answers.UserDisplayName: bof
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T04:28:50.800Z
Answers.Text: 1.d4 Nc6 2.Nf3 d5 3.c4 Bg4 is a trasposition to the Tchigorin Defense. Alternatively 3...e5 is a relative of the Albin Countergambit.
Answers.UserDisplayName: bof
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T20:17:34.780Z
Answers.Text: These comments are true, but don't answer the question.  Comment #1:  This is a consequence of luring the pawns forward.  Comment #2:  This is the Chigorin Defense.  Yet the statement that black can't protect the center with the c-pawn still holds true.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Fred Knight
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T04:01:39.150Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2017-08-11T04:01:39.150Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Fred Knight
Body: <p>I recently came across <strong>1.d4 Nc6</strong> while playing a game and I was immediatly tempted to play <strong>2.d5</strong>, and so I did it, then my opponent continued the game with <strong>Ne5</strong>. </p>
  
  <p>After the game I went to an online database to check some reference on this opening, I saw it is called the Mikenas Defense, and to my surprise <strong>2.Nf3</strong> and <strong>2.e4</strong> are by far the most common responses to it, while <strong>2.d5</strong> occurs only in 5% of the games. I'm a ~1400 player and I'm still learning the basics of openings theory, I can understand that both of these moves help white to develop its pieces, but can't they be naturally developed after <strong>2..Ne5</strong>(which seems to be the most played move after <strong>2.d5</strong>) with something like <strong>3.e4</strong>? </p>
  
  <pre><code>[fen ""]
  
  1. d4 Nc6
  2. d5 Ne5
  3. e4
  </code></pre>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T02:48:24.143Z
Comments.Text: 2 e4 is misleading. That is your database is taking into account transpositions. 1e4 Nc6 2 d4 happens much more often. as for d5 vs Nf3, it seems that in that position, it is true that Nf3 is played more often. I myself don't know the reason namely because I'm a e4 player.
Comments.UserDisplayName: CognisMantis
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T02:52:57.023Z
Comments.Text: I meant 2.e4 is common after 1.d4 Nc6 and not before any openings lines.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Vinícius Figueiredo
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T03:46:49.390Z
Comments.Text: I don't think it is. looking at my database, it isn't played very often just looking at games played that started with d4 Nc6.
Comments.UserDisplayName: CognisMantis
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T03:52:06.253Z
Comments.Text: My totally-unsupported theory is that people learn not to push pawns vs. the Alekhine, then switch to 1. d4 and carry over that bias. The positions from 1. d4 Nc6 2. d5 are way more pleasant than the Alekhine equivalents though.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Cleveland
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T03:54:02.000Z
Comments.Text: @CognisMantis yes, I noticed there are a few differences between the databases, chesstempo's and chessbase's were the databases I used.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Vinícius Figueiredo
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T04:05:25.843Z
Comments.Text: @Cleveland that's a good way to think on the opening, thanks for sharing your thought.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Vinícius Figueiredo
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T04:32:08.960Z
Comments.Text: 2.e4 can transpose to the Scotch Game. I had a game go 1.d4 Nc6 2.e4 e5 3.Nf3 exd4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nxe4?! which is a book line but one which doesn't very often result from 1.d4.
Comments.UserDisplayName: bof
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T04:37:20.083Z
Comments.Text: @Cleveland, doesn't make sense though because who is taught to not push the pawn vs the alekhine. The only move that secures an advantage is to push.
Comments.UserDisplayName: CognisMantis
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-11T04:40:10.880Z
Comments.Text: @CognisMantis I was thinking of playing e5+c4+d4 (and maybe even f4) vs the Alekhine.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Cleveland
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-09-22T23:18:57.617Z
Comments.Text: Probably the knight on c6 (blocking the c-pawn) is not well placed which is why Nf3 is strong.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ywapom
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2019-09-04T08:58:24.797Z
Comments.Text: Is it possible that you are including 1.Nf3 Nc6 2.d4 games by transposition?
Comments.UserDisplayName: David
Tags: <opening>
Title: Why 2.d5 is much less common than other responses to the Mikenas Defense(1.d4 Nc6)?
ThreadText: # Why 2.d5 is much less common than other responses to the Mikenas Defense(1.d4 Nc6)?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2017-08-11)
  
  I recently came across **1.d4 Nc6** while playing a game and I was immediatly tempted to play **2.d5**, and so I did it, then my opponent continued the game with **Ne5**.
  
  After the game I went to an online database to check some reference on this opening, I saw it is called the Mikenas Defense, and to my surprise **2.Nf3** and **2.e4** are by far the most common responses to it, while **2.d5** occurs only in 5% of the games. I'm a ~1400 player and I'm still learning the basics of openings theory, I can understand that both of these moves help white to develop its pieces, but can't they be naturally developed after **2..Ne5**(which seems to be the most played move after **2.d5**) with something like **3.e4**?
  
  ```
  [fen ""]
  
  1. d4 Nc6
  2. d5 Ne5
  3. e4
  
  ```
  
  **Tags:** opening
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: 2 e4 is misleading. That is your database is taking into account transpositions. 1e4 Nc6 2 d4 happens much more often. as for d5 vs Nf3, it seems that in that position, it is true that Nf3 is played more often. I myself don't know the reason namely because I'm a e4 player.  
  > **username_0**: I meant 2.e4 is common after 1.d4 Nc6 and not before any openings lines.  
  > **username_1**: I don't think it is. looking at my database, it isn't played very often just looking at games played that started with d4 Nc6.  
  > **username_2**: My totally-unsupported theory is that people learn not to push pawns vs. the Alekhine, then switch to 1. d4 and carry over that bias. The positions from 1. d4 Nc6 2. d5 are way more pleasant than the Alekhine equivalents though.  
  > **username_0**: @username_1 yes, I noticed there are a few differences between the databases, chesstempo's and chessbase's were the databases I used.  
  > **username_0**: @username_2 that's a good way to think on the opening, thanks for sharing your thought.  
  > **username_3**: 2.e4 can transpose to the Scotch Game. I had a game go 1.d4 Nc6 2.e4 e5 3.Nf3 exd4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nc3 Nxe4?! which is a book line but one which doesn't very often result from 1.d4.  
  > **username_1**: @username_2, doesn't make sense though because who is taught to not push the pawn vs the alekhine. The only move that secures an advantage is to push.  
  > **username_2**: @username_1 I was thinking of playing e5+c4+d4 (and maybe even f4) vs the Alekhine.  
  > **username_4**: Probably the username_8 on c6 (blocking the c-pawn) is not well placed which is why Nf3 is strong.  
  > **username_5**: Is it possible that you are including 1.Nf3 Nc6 2.d4 games by transposition?  
  
  ---
  
  ## 3 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_8 on 2017-08-11. Score: 13 | Accepted answer
  
  Just the opinion of a 2000 player.
  
  ```
  
  [fen ""]
  
  1. d4 Nc6 2. d5 Ne5 3. f4 Ng6 4. e4 e6
  
  ```
  
  The idea of this opening, and others like the Alekhine and the Two Knights Tango, is to lure the white pawns forward to make them easier to attack. Black gets a very cramped game, but it is playable.
  
  ```
  
  [fen ""]
  
  1. d4 Nc6 2. Nf3 d5 3. c4
  
  ```
  
  The main purpose of Nf3 is to prevent black's username_8 from using that square. After normal moves, black will find that blocking the c-pawn advance is considered bad.
  
  One of the general objectives in openings is to control the center. White can attack black's center with the c-pawn, yet black can't support this with his own pawn. This leads to a small increase in white's advantage.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_3**: After 1.d4 Nc6 2.d5 Ne5 3.f4 Ng6 4.e4 instead of 4...e6 Black can play 4...e5 which ends up the same after 5.dxe6 but can be fun if White goes for 5.f5?! Qh4+ as in a famous 1938 Weinitschke–Bogoljubow game.  
  > **username_3**: 1.d4 Nc6 2.Nf3 d5 3.c4 Bg4 is a trasposition to the Tchigorin Defense. Alternatively 3...e5 is a relative of the Albin Countergambit.  
  > **username_8**: These comments are true, but don't answer the question.  Comment #1:  This is a consequence of luring the pawns forward.  Comment #2:  This is the Chigorin Defense.  Yet the statement that black can't protect the center with the c-pawn still holds true.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_6 on 2017-08-13. Score: 2
  
  D5 is fine to play, but it is commital and a bit lacking in mobility. I probably wouldn't play it.
  
  Nf3 does a good job preventing a quick e5, and e4 claims the center nicely. Neither are too commital and leave room for all kinds of options.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_7 on 2020-10-17. Score: 0
  
  Your statistics don't seem likely to be accurate.
  
  From [365chess.com](https://www.365chess.com/opening.php), the most common responses are:
  
  ```
          times    win   draw   loss    eval
  2. Nf3  1,455   42.9   29.2   27.9   +0.42
  2. c4     566   41.7   25.1   33.2   +0.49
  2. d5     396   49.7   21.5   28.8   +0.57
  2. e4     343   49.6   17.5   32.9   +0.20
  
  ```
  
  As you can see, according to these statistics 2. d5 is actually more common than 2. e4 (although still much less than 2. Nf3), and it scores best both in practice (take that with a pinch of salt as the sample size is so small) and on evaluation. So I doubt there is anything wrong with this move.
  
  Perhaps your statistics are for position rather than exact sequence of moves, as 1. e4 Nc6 2. d4 appears more than 4,000 times in the same database.
  
  
  ---
  
  