Body: <p>A small barrier to entry to the chess problem world is that knights are denoted &quot;S&quot; rather than &quot;N&quot;. This confusing usage comes over as snooty and precious, but unfortunately we seem to be stuck with it.</p>
  <p>The &quot;justification&quot; is that N is reserved for the fairy unit &quot;nightrider&quot;. This is rather like saying: &quot;Oh don't put your coat on that hook in the hall - once a year Father Christmas visits and puts his hat there.&quot;</p>
  <p>The &quot;S&quot; comes from the German Springer for knight, but unfortunately we don't use the other German notation KDTLB for KQRBP. It's just the knights.</p>
  <p>This notational exception is a continual unnecessary pain in the neck when trying to write articles and edit our little chess problem magazine. I don't believe in cursing people, but I would like to know who to explicitly exclude from a general blessing I will utter for the benefit of all chess problemists bar one :-)</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-06-03T09:10:53.853Z
Comments.Text: Just out of curiosity was that problematic "S" introduced before or after the normal English abbreviation for knight changed from Kt to N?
Comments.UserDisplayName: bof
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-06-03T09:27:52.477Z
Comments.Text: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_notation gives examples of Kt in 1904 & S in 1946. Dawson & Hunsdorfer's "Retrograde Analysis" 1915 used S. But the changes may not have been rolled out consistently. N is still used by those problemists who retain some grip on normality. I think Dawson is a leading suspect, as he was quite influential and innovative. It was he who invented the Nightrider, and generally I approve of what he did
Comments.UserDisplayName: Laska
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-06-03T12:28:58.133Z
Comments.Text: I don't see this as a relevant barrier in modern times, save that I have the same problem with my club zine (PGNs are in English, rest in German). I swore for the umptieth time to write a small Python proggie that autoconverts the stuff, but it shouldn't be derailed by comments, which is not completely trivial.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-06-03T14:33:26.137Z
Comments.Text: You are welcome to receive hundreds of problems with diagrams, solutions & discussions in random format, and dealing with different tools which have their own preferences in these matters. Come on Hauke don’t pretend a simple Python script is going to unify all of this. There are other more intractable issues, but the N/S business is completely unnecessary. If you have one I will buy it from you
Comments.UserDisplayName: Laska
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-06-04T21:38:44.563Z
Comments.Text: @HaukeReddmann: For our club zine, I had a special version of ChessX that could export PGN in "localized" format - I will integrate that in 1.6 :-) But back in the days, Fritz would also export "localized" PGN. I don't know if it still does this (or if it could even read back these PGN).
Comments.UserDisplayName: Jens
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-06-05T07:35:02.073Z
Comments.Text: @Laska: *Your* problem seemingly is probably far bigger than mine (which I up to now "solved" by running a S/N replace in WinWord, causing the occasional Teddmann et. al in the wake). If you are an editor, never thought of making rules for entries? Always outsource problems :-)
Comments.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Tags: <problems><knights>
Title: Who proposed that S stand for knight in English chess problem notation?
ThreadText: # Who proposed that S stand for knight in English chess problem notation?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2024-06-03)
  
  A small barrier to entry to the chess problem world is that knights are denoted "S" rather than "N". This confusing usage comes over as snooty and precious, but unfortunately we seem to be stuck with it.
  
  The "justification" is that N is reserved for the fairy unit "nightrider". This is rather like saying: "Oh don't put your coat on that hook in the hall - once a year Father Christmas visits and puts his hat there."
  
  The "S" comes from the German Springer for knight, but unfortunately we don't use the other German notation KDTLB for KQRBP. It's just the knights.
  
  This notational exception is a continual unnecessary pain in the neck when trying to write articles and edit our little chess problem magazine. I don't believe in cursing people, but I would like to know who to explicitly exclude from a general blessing I will utter for the benefit of all chess problemists bar one :-)
  
  **Tags:** problems, knights
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Just out of curiosity was that problematic "S" introduced before or after the normal English abbreviation for knight changed from Kt to N?  
  > **username_0**: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_notation gives examples of Kt in 1904 & S in 1946. Dawson & Hunsdorfer's "Retrograde Analysis" 1915 used S. But the changes may not have been rolled out consistently. N is still used by those problemists who retain some grip on normality. I think Dawson is a leading suspect, as he was quite influential and innovative. It was he who invented the Nightrider, and generally I approve of what he did  
  > **username_2**: I don't see this as a relevant barrier in modern times, save that I have the same problem with my club zine (PGNs are in English, rest in German). I swore for the umptieth time to write a small Python proggie that autoconverts the stuff, but it shouldn't be derailed by comments, which is not completely trivial.  
  > **username_0**: You are welcome to receive hundreds of problems with diagrams, solutions & discussions in random format, and dealing with different tools which have their own preferences in these matters. Come on username_2 don’t pretend a simple Python script is going to unify all of this. There are other more intractable issues, but the N/S business is completely unnecessary. If you have one I will buy it from you  
  > **username_3**: @username_2: For our club zine, I had a special version of ChessX that could export PGN in "localized" format - I will integrate that in 1.6 :-) But back in the days, Fritz would also export "localized" PGN. I don't know if it still does this (or if it could even read back these PGN).  
  > **username_2**: @username_0: *Your* problem seemingly is probably far bigger than mine (which I up to now "solved" by running a S/N replace in WinWord, causing the occasional Teddmann et. al in the wake). If you are an editor, never thought of making rules for entries? Always outsource problems :-)  
  
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  ## 0 answers
  
  