Answers.Body: <blockquote>
  <p>If you've attempted to play chess against ChatGPT, you quickly learn it doesn't know how to play, and constantly makes illegal moves. So I'm puzzled how it came up with a plausible game of chess. I didn't find it in the LiChess database.</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>ChatGPT can most certainly play chess when prompted correctly; see e.g. my related question <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/41933/when-did-this-chess-game-against-chatgpt-diverge-from-theory">here</a> for evidence. Playing chess against an opponent is expected to be harder than making up a game (because in the latter case, the model controls both sides and makes moves that from its point of view all fit into the story), so I find it unsurprising that it can hallucinate a whole game.</p>
  <p>In that context, the strange result of the game ending with checkmate and being scored as draw has, I think, also a simple explanation. The story demands that the game be played by grandmasters, so the model will try to emulate good play. At the same time, the model generates the game one token at a time, and can never take anything back. So it generates the header, decides that the game will be a draw, and starts generating the game. Later on, good play demands that an obvious opportunity to checkmate not be missed, so it checkmates. Then it retcons the result to draw in order to remain consistent with the header, which, to reiterate the point, it cannot change after checkmate has been delivered.</p>
  <p>It is possible that this tension between two different goals in the story it was writing (make it a draw! play well!) also explains some of the poor play shown. However, simple failure to keep track of tactics is also a plausible explanation here.</p>
  
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Answers.Text: A more likely explanation is that ChatGPT doesn't actually understand chess in either the way that a human does or the way that a chess engine does.  Rather, the training data contains enough examples of chess games that it's formed a rough understanding of what moves follow what other moves, and used that to hallucinate a chess game.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Mark
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Answers.Text: ChatGPT, or any other large language model (LLM) for that matter, has no concept of facts or plausibility. "Can you give me an example of Ding Liren playing the French defence?" is a prompt about a fact, a game that has actually happened. LLMs don't look up factual information, they just combine words in a certain order that is statistically likely given the prompt. Try to ask it for a source for this game! It will invent one that looks as if it could exist. But it's just made up.
Answers.UserDisplayName: henning no longer feeds AI
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Polytropos
Answers.Body: <p>ChatGPT is a language predictor - it doesn't &quot;know&quot; anything but what words are likely to come next.</p>
  <p>What's interesting is that the Detector at <a href="https://openai-openai-detector.hf.space/" rel="noreferrer">https://openai-openai-detector.hf.space/</a>  rates the quoted output text as being 78.15% &quot;REAL&quot; based on 383 tokens.</p>
  <p>Normally the detector is really good with anything over 50 tokens, but chess notation is clearly a &quot;language&quot; with a predictable structure that the model can use to create a game out of thin air.</p>
  <p>ChatGPT is not a search engine - but it does draw sources from all over including the web.  I'd suspect that the vast bulk of published games in this notation are legitimate moves, so the language model for &quot;chess notation&quot; is influenced to predict legit plausible moves.</p>
  
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Criggie
Answers.Body: <p>As this <a href="https://youtu.be/x_bw_IHjCWU?t=55" rel="noreferrer">interesting video</a> which explains how ChatGPT (and similar AIs) works, says about ChatGPT's problems when generating &quot;answers&quot;:</p>
  <blockquote>
  <p>Hallucinations: model might make up wrong facts</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>And this is clearly what has happened here. The game is a million miles from any game that Wesley So and Ding Liren would ever play.</p>
  <p>ChatGPT also claims the game was played in round 1 of the GCT Superbet Chess Classic 2021. Here's the problem, although Wesley So <em>did</em> play the tournament, Ding Liren didn't. In fact in <a href="https://grandchesstour.org/blog/2021-superbet-chess-classic-day-1-recap" rel="noreferrer">the first round</a> So was black against Mamedyarov.</p>
  <p>This ChatGPT answer is an example of it hallucinating or, more prosaically, making up stuff from random information it picked up from the internet.</p>
  <p>The actual game moves will follow this pattern and just be from some random game it found online. Given the quality of the game it will have been played by two relatively low rated players perhaps even a bot.</p>
  
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Brian Towers
Body: <p>Seeing Ding Liren playing the French, I asked ChatGPT for an example of a game he played with this opening:</p>
  <blockquote>
  <p>Can you give me an example of Ding Liren playing the French defence?</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p><a href="https://poe.com/Sage" rel="noreferrer">ChatGPT</a> replied:</p>
  <blockquote>
  <p>Certainly! Here is an example of Ding Liren playing the French Defense
  in a game against Wesley So:</p>
  <p>[Event &quot;GCT Superbet Chess Classic 2021&quot;] [Site &quot;Bucharest ROU&quot;] [Date
  &quot;2021.06.07&quot;] [Round &quot;1.1&quot;] [White &quot;So, Wesley&quot;] [Black &quot;Ding, Liren&quot;]
  [Result &quot;1/2-1/2&quot;] [ECO &quot;C01&quot;] [Opening &quot;French&quot;] [Variation &quot;Exchange
  variation&quot;] [TimeControl &quot;5400+30&quot;] [Termination &quot;Game drawn by
  repetition&quot;]</p>
  <p>1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bd3 Bd6 6.O-O O-O 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bh4 Be6 9.Nbd2 Nbd7 10.c3 c5 11.dxc5 Nxc5 12.Bc2 g5 13.Bg3 Bxg3 14.hxg3 Qb6 15.Nb3 Nce4 16.Nfd4 Bd7 17.Qd3 Rae8 18.Rad1 Re7 19.Rfe1 Rfe8 20.Re2 a5 21.Nd2 Nc5 22.Qf3 Bg4 23.Rxe7 Rxe7 24.Nf5 Bxf3 25.Nxe7+
  Kf8 26.Nxf3 Qxb2 27.Rd2 Kxe7 28.Re2+ Kd6 29.Nd4 Qa1+ 30.Kh2 Ng4+
  31.Kh3 h5 32.Nf5+ Kc7 33.Re7+ Kb6 34.Nd6 Qh1# 1/2-1/2</p>
  <p>In this game, Ding Liren played the French Defense with 1...e6, and
  the game transposed into the Exchange Variation after 2.d4 d5 3.exd5
  exd5. While the game ended in a draw, it is an example of Ding Liren's
  ability to play the French Defense at the highest level of competitive
  chess.</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>Okay, the final score is bizarre: it's a checkmate and a draw.  And I don't think this is a super-GM game (it's a French exchange...).  But I'm confused as to how ChatGPT created this game.  The checkmating pattern looks familiar, so maybe it's from a famous game.</p>
  <p>If you've attempted to play chess against ChatGPT, you quickly learn it doesn't know how to play, and constantly makes illegal moves.  So I'm puzzled how it came up with a plausible game of chess.  I didn't find it in the LiChess database.</p>
  <pre><code>[fen &quot;&quot;]
  [Event &quot;ChatGPT-generated game&quot;]
  [White &quot;??&quot;]
  [Black &quot;??&quot;]
  
  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bd3 Bd6 6.O-O O-O 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bh4 Be6 9.Nbd2 Nbd7 10.c3 c5 11.dxc5 Nxc5 12.Bc2 g5 13.Bg3 Bxg3 14.hxg3 Qb6 15.Nb3 Nce4 16.Nfd4 Bd7 17.Qd3 Rae8 18.Rad1 Re7 19.Rfe1 Rfe8 20.Re2 a5 21.Nd2 Nc5 22.Qf3 Bg4 23.Rxe7 Rxe7 24.Nf5 Bxf3 25.Nxe7+ Kf8 26.Nxf3 Qxb2 27.Rd2 Kxe7 28.Re2+ Kd6 29.Nd4 Qa1+ 30.Kh2 Ng4+ 31.Kh3 h5 32.Nf5+ Kc7 33.Re7+ Kb6 34.Nd6 Qh1#
  </code></pre>
  <p><strong>Question</strong>: Where did ChatGPT get this game from?</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-04-18T10:58:59.120Z
Comments.Text: Related: https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/41933/when-did-this-chess-game-against-chatgpt-diverge-from-theory/41936#41936
Comments.UserDisplayName: David
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-04-18T18:42:01.343Z
Comments.Text: ChatGPT makes a bunch of stuff up and calls it true.  It's sort of just winging it.  I've seen this also in the programming realm, as well as anything about twitch streamers/league of legends game mechanics.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Thomas
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-04-19T02:36:45.923Z
Comments.Text: @Thomas That's the nature of Language Models. It doesn't actually "understand" anything. It, strictly speaking, is an output machine, one that can generate high-school / undergrad level writing, but it has no ability to detect truth. If enough people on the internet say a certain thing, it becomes "truth".
Comments.UserDisplayName: Nelson
Tags: <computer-chess><database>
Title: Where did ChatGPT get this game from?
ThreadText: # Where did ChatGPT get this game from?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2023-04-18)
  
  Seeing Ding Liren playing the French, I asked ChatGPT for an example of a game he played with this opening:
  
  > Can you give me an example of Ding Liren playing the French defence?
  
  [ChatGPT](https://poe.com/Sage) replied:
  
  > Certainly! Here is an example of Ding Liren playing the French Defense
  > in a game against Wesley So:
  >
  > [Event "GCT Superbet Chess Classic 2021"] [Site "Bucharest ROU"] [Date
  > "2021.06.07"] [Round "1.1"] [White "So, Wesley"] [Black "Ding, Liren"]
  > [Result "1/2-1/2"] [ECO "C01"] [Opening "French"] [Variation "Exchange
  > variation"] [TimeControl "5400+30"] [Termination "Game drawn by
  > repetition"]
  >
  > 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bd3 Bd6 6.O-O O-O 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bh4 Be6 9.Nbd2 Nbd7 10.c3 c5 11.dxc5 Nxc5 12.Bc2 g5 13.Bg3 Bxg3 14.hxg3 Qb6 15.Nb3 Nce4 16.Nfd4 Bd7 17.Qd3 Rae8 18.Rad1 Re7 19.Rfe1 Rfe8 20.Re2 a5 21.Nd2 Nc5 22.Qf3 Bg4 23.Rxe7 Rxe7 24.Nf5 Bxf3 25.Nxe7+
  > Kf8 26.Nxf3 Qxb2 27.Rd2 Kxe7 28.Re2+ Kd6 29.Nd4 Qa1+ 30.Kh2 Ng4+
  > 31.Kh3 h5 32.Nf5+ Kc7 33.Re7+ Kb6 34.Nd6 Qh1# 1/2-1/2
  >
  > In this game, Ding Liren played the French Defense with 1...e6, and
  > the game transposed into the Exchange Variation after 2.d4 d5 3.exd5
  > exd5. While the game ended in a draw, it is an example of Ding Liren's
  > ability to play the French Defense at the highest level of competitive
  > chess.
  
  Okay, the final score is bizarre: it's a checkmate and a draw. And I don't think this is a super-GM game (it's a French exchange...). But I'm confused as to how ChatGPT created this game. The checkmating pattern looks familiar, so maybe it's from a famous game.
  
  If you've attempted to play chess against ChatGPT, you quickly learn it doesn't know how to play, and constantly makes illegal moves. So I'm puzzled how it came up with a plausible game of chess. I didn't find it in the LiChess database.
  
  ```
  [fen ""]
  [Event "ChatGPT-generated game"]
  [White "??"]
  [Black "??"]
  
  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bd3 Bd6 6.O-O O-O 7.Bg5 h6 8.Bh4 Be6 9.Nbd2 Nbd7 10.c3 c5 11.dxc5 Nxc5 12.Bc2 g5 13.Bg3 Bxg3 14.hxg3 Qb6 15.Nb3 Nce4 16.Nfd4 Bd7 17.Qd3 Rae8 18.Rad1 Re7 19.Rfe1 Rfe8 20.Re2 a5 21.Nd2 Nc5 22.Qf3 Bg4 23.Rxe7 Rxe7 24.Nf5 Bxf3 25.Nxe7+ Kf8 26.Nxf3 Qxb2 27.Rd2 Kxe7 28.Re2+ Kd6 29.Nd4 Qa1+ 30.Kh2 Ng4+ 31.Kh3 h5 32.Nf5+ Kc7 33.Re7+ Kb6 34.Nd6 Qh1#
  
  ```
  
  **Question**: Where did ChatGPT get this game from?
  
  **Tags:** computer-chess, database
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Related: https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/41933/when-did-this-chess-game-against-chatgpt-diverge-from-theory/41936#41936  
  > **username_2**: ChatGPT makes a bunch of stuff up and calls it true.  It's sort of just winging it.  I've seen this also in the programming realm, as well as anything about twitch streamers/league of legends game mechanics.  
  > **username_3**: @username_2 That's the nature of Language Models. It doesn't actually "understand" anything. It, strictly speaking, is an output machine, one that can generate high-school / undergrad level writing, but it has no ability to detect truth. If enough people on the internet say a certain thing, it becomes "truth".  
  
  ---
  
  ## 3 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_4 on 2023-04-18. Score: 19
  
  > If you've attempted to play chess against ChatGPT, you quickly learn it doesn't know how to play, and constantly makes illegal moves. So I'm puzzled how it came up with a plausible game of chess. I didn't find it in the LiChess database.
  
  ChatGPT can most certainly play chess when prompted correctly; see e.g. my related question [here](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/41933/when-did-this-chess-game-against-chatgpt-diverge-from-theory) for evidence. Playing chess against an opponent is expected to be harder than making up a game (because in the latter case, the model controls both sides and makes moves that from its point of view all fit into the story), so I find it unsurprising that it can hallucinate a whole game.
  
  In that context, the strange result of the game ending with checkmate and being scored as draw has, I think, also a simple explanation. The story demands that the game be played by grandmasters, so the model will try to emulate good play. At the same time, the model generates the game one token at a time, and can never take anything back. So it generates the header, decides that the game will be a draw, and starts generating the game. Later on, good play demands that an obvious opportunity to checkmate not be missed, so it checkmates. Then it retcons the result to draw in order to remain consistent with the header, which, to reiterate the point, it cannot change after checkmate has been delivered.
  
  It is possible that this tension between two different goals in the story it was writing (make it a draw! play well!) also explains some of the poor play shown. However, simple failure to keep track of tactics is also a plausible explanation here.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_5**: A more likely explanation is that ChatGPT doesn't actually understand chess in either the way that a human does or the way that a chess engine does.  Rather, the training data contains enough examples of chess games that it's formed a rough understanding of what moves follow what other moves, and used that to hallucinate a chess game.  
  > **username_6**: ChatGPT, or any other large language model (LLM) for that matter, has no concept of facts or plausibility. "Can you give me an example of Ding Liren playing the French defence?" is a prompt about a fact, a game that has actually happened. LLMs don't look up factual information, they just combine words in a certain order that is statistically likely given the prompt. Try to ask it for a source for this game! It will invent one that looks as if it could exist. But it's just made up.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_8 on 2023-04-18. Score: 17
  
  As this [interesting video](https://youtu.be/x_bw_IHjCWU?t=55) which explains how ChatGPT (and similar AIs) works, says about ChatGPT's problems when generating "answers":
  
  > Hallucinations: model might make up wrong facts
  
  And this is clearly what has happened here. The game is a million miles from any game that Wesley So and Ding Liren would ever play.
  
  ChatGPT also claims the game was played in round 1 of the GCT Superbet Chess Classic 2021. Here's the problem, although Wesley So *did* play the tournament, Ding Liren didn't. In fact in [the first round](https://grandchesstour.org/blog/2021-superbet-chess-classic-day-1-recap) So was black against Mamedyarov.
  
  This ChatGPT answer is an example of it hallucinating or, more prosaically, making up stuff from random information it picked up from the internet.
  
  The actual game moves will follow this pattern and just be from some random game it found online. Given the quality of the game it will have been played by two relatively low rated players perhaps even a bot.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_7 on 2023-04-18. Score: 12
  
  ChatGPT is a language predictor - it doesn't "know" anything but what words are likely to come next.
  
  What's interesting is that the Detector at <https://openai-openai-detector.hf.space/> rates the quoted output text as being 78.15% "REAL" based on 383 tokens.
  
  Normally the detector is really good with anything over 50 tokens, but chess notation is clearly a "language" with a predictable structure that the model can use to create a game out of thin air.
  
  ChatGPT is not a search engine - but it does draw sources from all over including the web. I'd suspect that the vast bulk of published games in this notation are legitimate moves, so the language model for "chess notation" is influenced to predict legit plausible moves.
  
  
  ---
  
  