Body: <p>Are we missing too much from the 50-move rule implementation to engines, whether HCE (Hand-crafted evaluation) or/and NN (Neural Network)?</p>
  <p>We know that certain endgames are a win without the rule.
  Would the NN training time be significantly extended by removing the rule?
  If so, would there be enough benefit for it, i.e. engines evaluation more optimistic in some situations and converting drawn positions (by the 50 move rule) to a win?</p>
  <p>Of course we are talking about special and rare cases over all.</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-04-28T06:48:05.287Z
Comments.Text: From my POV this question is less related to chess and more to AI.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Abhyuday Vaish
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-04-28T08:05:06.090Z
Comments.Text: *=50-move rule is lengthy and redundant. Related to computer chess as 50-move rule is a chess rule.
Comments.UserDisplayName: JSBach49
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-04-30T15:55:39.247Z
Comments.Text: Definitely a pure chess question and a good one. op may like to check out r-mobility (a tiebreaker score used in engine chess)
Comments.UserDisplayName: Mobeus Zoom
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-05-02T05:34:12.087Z
Comments.Text: This is a confusingly worded question. It would help if you explain a bit what the context is, your assumptions, etc, and spell out the acronyms. NN? HCE?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Steve Bennett
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-05-02T07:19:36.213Z
Comments.Text: Missing to much, i.e. Some positions are under evaluate because engine would need far more than 50 move to convert it into a win. The NN training is the self play reinforcement learning part, without the 50 move rule some games would become very long and would probably increase the training time dramaticaly.
Comments.UserDisplayName: JSBach49
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2022-05-21T00:38:31.267Z
Comments.Text: Most (i.e. all) the endgames that I know that are a win without the 50 move rule, but are a draw with the 50 move rule, require tablebases. If I'm not too mistaken, computers switch to tablebases as soon as they can (even the fancy NN learning beasts). What special and rare cases are you referring to?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Pablo S. Ocal
Tags: <engines><programming><evaluation><50-move-rule>
Title: Are engines impaired by the 50-move rule?
ThreadText: # Are engines impaired by the 50-move rule?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2022-04-27)
  
  Are we missing too much from the 50-move rule implementation to engines, whether HCE (Hand-crafted evaluation) or/and NN (Neural Network)?
  
  We know that certain endgames are a win without the rule.
  Would the NN training time be significantly extended by removing the rule?
  If so, would there be enough benefit for it, i.e. engines evaluation more optimistic in some situations and converting drawn positions (by the 50 move rule) to a win?
  
  Of course we are talking about special and rare cases over all.
  
  **Tags:** engines, programming, evaluation, 50-move-rule
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: From my POV this question is less related to chess and more to AI.  
  > **username_0**: *=50-move rule is lengthy and redundant. Related to computer chess as 50-move rule is a chess rule.  
  > **username_2**: Definitely a pure chess question and a good one. op may like to check out r-mobility (a tiebreaker score used in engine chess)  
  > **username_3**: This is a confusingly worded question. It would help if you explain a bit what the context is, your assumptions, etc, and spell out the acronyms. NN? HCE?  
  > **username_0**: Missing to much, i.e. Some positions are under evaluate because engine would need far more than 50 move to convert it into a win. The NN training is the self play reinforcement learning part, without the 50 move rule some games would become very long and would probably increase the training time dramaticaly.  
  > **username_4**: Most (i.e. all) the endgames that I know that are a win without the 50 move rule, but are a draw with the 50 move rule, require tablebases. If I'm not too mistaken, computers switch to tablebases as soon as they can (even the fancy NN learning beasts). What special and rare cases are you referring to?  
  
  ---
  
  ## 0 answers
  
  