<p>It's quite simple: Hexproof and Shroud don't prevent <em>damage</em>; they prevent <em>targeting</em>. <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lava%20Burst">Lava Burst</a> cannot target something with Hexproof, something Lava Burst must do far before it tries to deal damage.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-02-07T11:32:57.437Z
In this case does a zone effet like "Deal X to target opponent creatures" deals damages to it despite Shroud | Hexproof ?
Rolexel
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-02-07T12:32:07.573Z
I was speaking of effects to be applied to all creatures for example, and not just one specific. And I'm not sure, it's targetting a player, but the shroud is on the creature, not on the player
Rolexel
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-02-07T13:14:45.460Z
Yes but since it's targetting the player, and the shroud is on the creature it should affect it. What could be a problem here would be they player having shrould on himself.. No ?
Rolexel
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-02-08T00:46:12.277Z
@Alexandre Audin, I misread (in part because of the confusing reference to zone effects when the effect didn't mention any zones). The player would need shroud or hexproof to stop that effect.  This is covered by my answer: Hexproof and Shroud don't prevent damage; they prevent targeting.
ikegami
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-14T13:29:06.047Z
2014-04-14T14:02:38.440Z
2014-04-14T14:02:38.440Z
ikegami
<p>No, Lava Burst <strong>cannot</strong> damage a creature with shroud or an opponent's creature with hexproof. An opponent's creature with hexproof or shroud can't be the target of <strong>anything</strong> you control, period. The &quot;cannot be prevented&quot; text only means that prevention effects do not prevent or change that damage. The relevant rules here are:</p>
<blockquote>
<ul>
<li><p><strong>615.1.</strong> Some continuous effects are prevention effects. Like replacement effects (see rule 614), prevention effects apply continuously as events happen -- they aren't locked in ahead of time. Such effects watch for a damage event that would happen and completely or partially prevent the damage that would be dealt. They act like &quot;shields&quot; around whatever they're affecting.</p>
</li>
<li><p><strong>615.11.</strong> Some effects state that damage &quot;can't be prevented.&quot; If unpreventable damage would be dealt, any applicable prevention effects are still applied to it. Those effects won't prevent any damage, but any additional effects they have will take place. Existing damage prevention shields won't be reduced by damage that can't be prevented.</p>
</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-14T03:48:57.687Z
To clarify a bit, cards talking about preventing damage mean it very specifically and literally. So Lava Burst doesn't mean it's unstoppable, that you can't do anything that'd in any way avoid the damage being dealt, it just means that damage prevention effects (like protection, and things that actually say "prevent damage") won't work.
Cascabel
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-14T05:11:49.123Z
I should point out that at least in this case, protection would also mean that the spell couldn't have targeted the creature.
murgatroid99
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-14T05:24:15.013Z
Ack, yes - wish I could edit to clarify that. I really just wanted to emphasize that "preventing damage" is a nice specific thing, not a fuzzy description.
Cascabel
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-14T15:37:47.853Z
Lava Burst can damage a creature with hexproof if it's your creature.
corsiKa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-14T00:31:15.393Z
2014-04-14T20:49:44.967Z
2020-06-17T09:01:24.697Z
murgatroid99
<p>How does <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2634" rel="nofollow"><em>Lava Burst</em></a> work with hexproof/shroud ability?</p>

<p><a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2634" rel="nofollow"><em>Lava Burst</em></a> text says:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>If Lava Burst would deal damage to a creature, that damage <strong>can't be prevented</strong> or dealt instead to another creature or player.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>However, <em>hexproof</em> / <em>shroud</em> ability also say:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>This creature can't be the target of spells or abilities ...</p>
</blockquote>

<p>So how does it actually work? Can <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2634" rel="nofollow"><em>Lava Burst</em></a> damage a <em>hexproof</em> / <em>shroud</em> creature, or can't that creature be targeted at all?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-14T14:19:15.767Z
Murgatroid99 covered the important parts, but I wanted to add the easy to remember acronym for Protection just for reference. **D.E.B.T**. Can't be Dealt *D*amage by, *E*nchanted by, *B*locked by, or *T*argeted by whatever it is protected from. Hexproof literally means "Can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponent controls." As you can see, there is some partial overlap there. +1 to you for looking up some of the rules text before posting.
Rainbolt
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-16T13:48:57.430Z
@Rusher, This question has nothing to do with Protection. Prevention isn't Protection. And the "E" of DEBT is really Enchanted/Equipped/Fortified by.
ikegami
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-16T14:25:33.180Z
@ikegami I never said Prevention was Protection. Damage prevention is a component of Protection, and therefore related to the question.
Rainbolt
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-16T14:38:00.543Z
@Rusher, By that logic, my company's policies are on topic since damage prevention is also a component of them. Your comment is very very very confusing.
ikegami
<magic-the-gathering>
How does Lava Burst work with hexproof/shroud?
Novarg
# How does Lava Burst work with hexproof/shroud?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-04-13)

How does [*Lava Burst*](http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2634) work with hexproof/shroud ability?

[*Lava Burst*](http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2634) text says:

> If Lava Burst would deal damage to a creature, that damage **can't be prevented** or dealt instead to another creature or player.

However, *hexproof* / *shroud* ability also say:

> This creature can't be the target of spells or abilities ...

So how does it actually work? Can [*Lava Burst*](http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=2634) damage a *hexproof* / *shroud* creature, or can't that creature be targeted at all?

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: username_4 covered the important parts, but I wanted to add the easy to remember acronym for Protection just for reference. **D.E.B.T**. Can't be Dealt *D*amage by, *E*nchanted by, *B*locked by, or *T*argeted by whatever it is protected from. Hexproof literally means "Can't be the target of spells or abilities your opponent controls." As you can see, there is some partial overlap there. +1 to you for looking up some of the rules text before posting.  
> **username_2**: @Rusher, This question has nothing to do with Protection. Prevention isn't Protection. And the "E" of DEBT is really Enchanted/Equipped/Fortified by.  
> **username_1**: @username_2 I never said Prevention was Protection. Damage prevention is a component of Protection, and therefore related to the question.  
> **username_2**: @Rusher, By that logic, my company's policies are on topic since damage prevention is also a component of them. Your comment is very very very confusing.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2014-04-14. Score: 10 | Accepted answer

No, Lava Burst **cannot** damage a creature with shroud or an opponent's creature with hexproof. An opponent's creature with hexproof or shroud can't be the target of **anything** you control, period. The "cannot be prevented" text only means that prevention effects do not prevent or change that damage. The relevant rules here are:

> * **615.1.** Some continuous effects are prevention effects. Like replacement effects (see rule 614), prevention effects apply continuously as events happen -- they aren't locked in ahead of time. Such effects watch for a damage event that would happen and completely or partially prevent the damage that would be dealt. They act like "shields" around whatever they're affecting.
> * **615.11.** Some effects state that damage "can't be prevented." If unpreventable damage would be dealt, any applicable prevention effects are still applied to it. Those effects won't prevent any damage, but any additional effects they have will take place. Existing damage prevention shields won't be reduced by damage that can't be prevented.

> **Comments:**
> **username_5**: To clarify a bit, cards talking about preventing damage mean it very specifically and literally. So Lava Burst doesn't mean it's unstoppable, that you can't do anything that'd in any way avoid the damage being dealt, it just means that damage prevention effects (like protection, and things that actually say "prevent damage") won't work.  
> **username_4**: I should point out that at least in this case, protection would also mean that the spell couldn't have targeted the creature.  
> **username_5**: Ack, yes - wish I could edit to clarify that. I really just wanted to emphasize that "preventing damage" is a nice specific thing, not a fuzzy description.  
> **username_6**: Lava Burst can damage a creature with hexproof if it's your creature.  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2014-04-14. Score: 3

It's quite simple: Hexproof and Shroud don't prevent *damage*; they prevent *targeting*. [Lava Burst](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lava%20Burst) cannot target something with Hexproof, something Lava Burst must do far before it tries to deal damage.

> **Comments:**
> **username_3**: In this case does a zone effet like "Deal X to target opponent creatures" deals damages to it despite Shroud | Hexproof ?  
> **username_3**: I was speaking of effects to be applied to all creatures for example, and not just one specific. And I'm not sure, it's targetting a player, but the shroud is on the creature, not on the player  
> **username_3**: Yes but since it's targetting the player, and the shroud is on the creature it should affect it. What could be a problem here would be they player having shrould on himself.. No ?  
> **username_2**: @Alexandre Audin, I misread (in part because of the confusing reference to zone effects when the effect didn't mention any zones). The player would need shroud or hexproof to stop that effect.  This is covered by my answer: Hexproof and Shroud don't prevent damage; they prevent targeting.  

---

