<p>There are several variants of this situation that are quite different in the rules reasoning and outcome.  In all cases, the situation is a loop.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>720.1b Occasionally the game gets into a state in which a set of actions could be repeated indefinitely (thus creating a &quot;loop&quot;). In that case, the shortcut rules can be used to determine how many times those actions are repeated without having to actually perform them, and how the loop is broken.</p>
</blockquote>
<h1>Case 1: players cannot win or lose the game because of mandatory abilities</h1>
<p>The game is a draw.</p>
<p>Example 1: both players have empty libraries and control <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%20Appeasement">Dragon Appeasement</a> on an otherwise empty board.</p>
<p>Example 2: one player controls <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel">Platinum Angel</a> and <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abyssal%20Persecutor">Abyssal Persecutor</a> and neither player has a way to remove either from the battlefield.</p>
<p>In this case, the game is a draw.  The game will eventually reduce to each player being able to do nothing but pass the turn.  This is a loop of mandatory actions.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>720.4. If a loop contains only mandatory actions, the game is a draw.</p>
</blockquote>
<h1>Case 2: players cannot win or lose the game because of optional abilities</h1>
<p>The game is a draw.</p>
<p>Example 1: both players have empty libraries and control some lands and <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Words%20of%20Worship">Words of Worship</a> on an otherwise empty board.</p>
<p>Example 2: both players have some lands and a copy of <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Beacon%20of%20Immortality">Beacon of Immortality</a>, but no other way to win.</p>
<p>In this case, the game will eventually reduce to a loop of both players activating the ability that keeps them alive and then passing the turn.  This is a loop of optional actions that spans multiple turns.  The comprehensive rules do not cover the subject, so we need to go to the tournament rules*.  The tournament rules allow for multi-turn optional loops to be continued indefinitely and this causes the game to be a draw.  From the Tournament Rules section 4.4:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Loops may span multiple turns if a game state is not meaningfully changing. Note that drawing cards other than the ones being used to sustain the loop is a meaningful change. If two or more players are involved in maintaining a loop across turns, each player chooses a number of iterations to perform, or announces their intent to continue indefinitely. If all players choose to continue indefinitely, the game is a draw.</p>
</blockquote>
<h1>Case 3: only one player has an optional ability and is using it to forestall inevitably losing</h1>
<p>The player with the optional ability loses.</p>
<p>Example 1: one player has <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%20Appeasement">Dragon Appeasement</a> and the other has <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Words%20of%20Worship">Words of Worship</a></p>
<p>Example 2: one player has an empty library, only lands on the battlefield, and only <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nexus%20of%20Fate">Nexus of Fate</a> in hand, which they are using to take infinite turns where they do nothing other than cast Nexus of Fate.</p>
<p>This is different from case 2 because only one player is involved in maintaining the loop.  From the Tournament Rules section 4.4:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>If one player is involved in maintaining the loop, they choose a number of iterations. The other players, in turn order, agree to that number or announce a lower number after which they intend to intervene. The game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority.</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>A player may not 'opt-out' of shortcutting a loop, nor may they make irrelevant changes between iterations in an attempt to make it appear as though there is no loop. Once a loop has been shortcut, it may not be restarted until the game has changed in a relevant way. Proposing loops as an effort to use up time on the clock is Stalling.</p>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<h5>* The Tournament Rules specify: &quot;Information in this document may contradict (or have information not contained in) the Comprehensive Rules. In such cases, this document takes precedence.&quot;</h5>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-06T14:30:58.487Z
@Allure It's a loop if player 2 isn't doing anything because you keep getting to the same game state.  "Loops may span multiple turns if a game state is not meaningfully changing."
Zags
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-10-18T15:01:01.513Z
@Allure I think I fixed it
Zags
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-02-19T14:04:36.140Z
2023-06-16T08:13:06.383Z
2023-06-16T08:13:06.383Z
Zags
<p>What happens in a game of magic if neither player can win or lose?</p>
<p>Examples:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Both players have empty libraries and control <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%20Appeasement">Dragon Appeasement</a> on an otherwise empty board.</p>
</li>
<li><p>One player controls <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel">Platinum Angel</a> and <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abyssal%20Persecutor">Abyssal Persecutor</a> and neither player has a way to remove either from the battlefield.</p>
</li>
<li><p>Both players have empty libraries and control some lands and <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Words%20of%20Worship">Words of Worship</a> on an otherwise empty board.</p>
</li>
<li><p>Both players have some lands and a copy of <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Beacon%20of%20Immortality">Beacon of Immortality</a>, but no other way to win.</p>
</li>
<li><p>One player has an empty library, only lands on the battlefield, and only <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nexus%20of%20Fate">Nexus of Fate</a> in hand, which they are using to prevent themselves from being milled.</p>
</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-02-19T14:06:20.283Z
Related, though not duplicate: https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/14437/what-happens-if-both-players-have-the-ability-to-pump-their-creature-an-unlimite
GendoIkari
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-10-19T16:55:32.110Z
Worth noting a player can still concede at any time and both players may still consider an intentional draw.
Neil Meyer
<magic-the-gathering>
What happens in the event of a standoff in Magic?
Zags
# What happens in the event of a standoff in Magic?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-02-19)

What happens in a game of magic if neither player can win or lose?

Examples:

* Both players have empty libraries and control [Dragon Appeasement](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%20Appeasement) on an otherwise empty board.
* One player controls [Platinum Angel](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel) and [Abyssal Persecutor](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abyssal%20Persecutor) and neither player has a way to remove either from the battlefield.
* Both players have empty libraries and control some lands and [Words of Worship](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Words%20of%20Worship) on an otherwise empty board.
* Both players have some lands and a copy of [Beacon of Immortality](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Beacon%20of%20Immortality), but no other way to win.
* One player has an empty library, only lands on the battlefield, and only [Nexus of Fate](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nexus%20of%20Fate) in hand, which they are using to prevent themselves from being milled.

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Related, though not duplicate: https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/14437/what-happens-if-both-players-have-the-ability-to-pump-their-creature-an-unlimite  
> **username_2**: Worth noting a player can still concede at any time and both players may still consider an intentional draw.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_0 on 2019-02-19. Score: 12 | Accepted answer

There are several variants of this situation that are quite different in the rules reasoning and outcome. In all cases, the situation is a loop.

> 720.1b Occasionally the game gets into a state in which a set of actions could be repeated indefinitely (thus creating a "loop"). In that case, the shortcut rules can be used to determine how many times those actions are repeated without having to actually perform them, and how the loop is broken.

# Case 1: players cannot win or lose the game because of mandatory abilities

The game is a draw.

Example 1: both players have empty libraries and control [Dragon Appeasement](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%20Appeasement) on an otherwise empty board.

Example 2: one player controls [Platinum Angel](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Platinum%20Angel) and [Abyssal Persecutor](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abyssal%20Persecutor) and neither player has a way to remove either from the battlefield.

In this case, the game is a draw. The game will eventually reduce to each player being able to do nothing but pass the turn. This is a loop of mandatory actions.

> 720.4. If a loop contains only mandatory actions, the game is a draw.

# Case 2: players cannot win or lose the game because of optional abilities

The game is a draw.

Example 1: both players have empty libraries and control some lands and [Words of Worship](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Words%20of%20Worship) on an otherwise empty board.

Example 2: both players have some lands and a copy of [Beacon of Immortality](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Beacon%20of%20Immortality), but no other way to win.

In this case, the game will eventually reduce to a loop of both players activating the ability that keeps them alive and then passing the turn. This is a loop of optional actions that spans multiple turns. The comprehensive rules do not cover the subject, so we need to go to the tournament rules\*. The tournament rules allow for multi-turn optional loops to be continued indefinitely and this causes the game to be a draw. From the Tournament Rules section 4.4:

> Loops may span multiple turns if a game state is not meaningfully changing. Note that drawing cards other than the ones being used to sustain the loop is a meaningful change. If two or more players are involved in maintaining a loop across turns, each player chooses a number of iterations to perform, or announces their intent to continue indefinitely. If all players choose to continue indefinitely, the game is a draw.

# Case 3: only one player has an optional ability and is using it to forestall inevitably losing

The player with the optional ability loses.

Example 1: one player has [Dragon Appeasement](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dragon%20Appeasement) and the other has [Words of Worship](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Words%20of%20Worship)

Example 2: one player has an empty library, only lands on the battlefield, and only [Nexus of Fate](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nexus%20of%20Fate) in hand, which they are using to take infinite turns where they do nothing other than cast Nexus of Fate.

This is different from case 2 because only one player is involved in maintaining the loop. From the Tournament Rules section 4.4:

> If one player is involved in maintaining the loop, they choose a number of iterations. The other players, in turn order, agree to that number or announce a lower number after which they intend to intervene. The game advances through the lowest number of iterations chosen and the player who chose that number receives priority.
>
> ...
>
> A player may not 'opt-out' of shortcutting a loop, nor may they make irrelevant changes between iterations in an attempt to make it appear as though there is no loop. Once a loop has been shortcut, it may not be restarted until the game has changed in a relevant way. Proposing loops as an effort to use up time on the clock is Stalling.

---

##### \* The Tournament Rules specify: "Information in this document may contradict (or have information not contained in) the Comprehensive Rules. In such cases, this document takes precedence."

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: @Allure It's a loop if player 2 isn't doing anything because you keep getting to the same game state.  "Loops may span multiple turns if a game state is not meaningfully changing."  
> **username_0**: @Allure I think I fixed it  

---

