<p>Zero counters. They cancel each other out.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>121.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based
  action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1
  counters on it.</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-05T14:55:01.307Z
Any idea how that works with Rock Hydra?
ProductionValues
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-05T15:00:30.743Z
@ProductionValues Rock Hydra doesn't take damage, it prevents the damage and removes counters instead. This means infect is irrelevant as the damage has already been prevented.
Nick
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-05T14:26:36.993Z
2014-11-05T14:26:36.993Z
Ivo Geersen
<p>Nuance abounds nowadays; whereas it was commonplace to mentally coalesce opposing counters on a permanent, I imagine doing so is incorrect.</p>

<p><strong>Scenario 1</strong><br>
Suppose one Sengir Vampire has amassed five +1/+1 counters from having sent five creatures to the graveyard, and it is now blocking a Regeneration-enchanted Putrefax, a 5/3 whose infectious damage is dealt in the form of -1/-1 counters. 
Does Sengir Vampire have zero counters, or ten counters?</p>

<p><strong>Scenario 2</strong><br>
Rabid Wombat, green 0/1, which gains +2/+2 for each enchantment on it, enchanted with Unstable Mutation, which gives it +3/+3, and gives it a -1/-1 counter during controller's upkeep. Is this accurate?</p>

<p>Consecutive Turns:<br>
0/1. Rabid Wombat cast.<br>
5/6. RW+Unstable Mutation. 3/4 + a 2/2 counter<br>
4/5. 3/4 + a 2/2 counter + -1/-1 counter<br>
3/4. 3/4 + a 2/2 counter + (2 x -1/-1 counters) <strong><em>no cancellation here?</em></strong><br>
2/3. 3/4 + a 2/2 counter + (3 x -1/-1 counters) ...<br>
.. etc. <strong><em>correct?</em></strong></p>

<p><strong>Scenario 3</strong><br>
Rock Hydra comes into play with casting-time X +1/+1 counters, and receives damage in the form of loss of the counters. If it becomes infected by Putrefax, which deals damage as -1/-1 counters, is the infection essentially redundant to Rock Hydra's normal life cycle? Or does the state-based action's removal of the counter count as damage which then removes another head?</p>

<p><strong><em>Is reduction of a creature's toughness due to counter-based actions considered damage?</em></strong></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-05T14:21:47.603Z
As is answered in the linked question, there is a special rule which cancels out +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters. If you had +1/+0 and -1/-0 counters, they would not cancel out.
Nick
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-05T15:09:15.157Z
Rabid Wombat does not give counters. There's in no +2/+2 counter in Scenario 2
ikegami
<magic-the-gathering>
Do opposite counters coexist or cancel each other out?
ProductionValues
# Do opposite counters coexist or cancel each other out?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-11-05)

Nuance abounds nowadays; whereas it was commonplace to mentally coalesce opposing counters on a permanent, I imagine doing so is incorrect.

**Scenario 1**  
Suppose one Sengir Vampire has amassed five +1/+1 counters from having sent five creatures to the graveyard, and it is now blocking a Regeneration-enchanted Putrefax, a 5/3 whose infectious damage is dealt in the form of -1/-1 counters.
Does Sengir Vampire have zero counters, or ten counters?

**Scenario 2**  
Rabid Wombat, green 0/1, which gains +2/+2 for each enchantment on it, enchanted with Unstable Mutation, which gives it +3/+3, and gives it a -1/-1 counter during controller's upkeep. Is this accurate?

Consecutive Turns:  
0/1. Rabid Wombat cast.  
5/6. RW+Unstable Mutation. 3/4 + a 2/2 counter  
4/5. 3/4 + a 2/2 counter + -1/-1 counter  
3/4. 3/4 + a 2/2 counter + (2 x -1/-1 counters) ***no cancellation here?***  
2/3. 3/4 + a 2/2 counter + (3 x -1/-1 counters) ...  
.. etc. ***correct?***

**Scenario 3**  
Rock Hydra comes into play with casting-time X +1/+1 counters, and receives damage in the form of loss of the counters. If it becomes infected by Putrefax, which deals damage as -1/-1 counters, is the infection essentially redundant to Rock Hydra's normal life cycle? Or does the state-based action's removal of the counter count as damage which then removes another head?

***Is reduction of a creature's toughness due to counter-based actions considered damage?***

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: As is answered in the linked question, there is a special rule which cancels out +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters. If you had +1/+0 and -1/-0 counters, they would not cancel out.  
> **username_2**: Rabid Wombat does not give counters. There's in no +2/+2 counter in Scenario 2  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2014-11-05. Score: 1

Zero counters. They cancel each other out.

> 121.3. If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it as a state-based
> action, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1
> counters on it.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Any idea how that works with Rock Hydra?  
> **username_1**: @username_0 Rock Hydra doesn't take damage, it prevents the damage and removes counters instead. This means infect is irrelevant as the damage has already been prevented.  

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