<p>You cannot have Nivmagus "eat" the spell and still cipher it on Nivmagus. Ciphering is part of the spell's effect, and if the spell is countered or exiled before resolution, then none of its effects occur.</p>

<p>You can, however, encode the cipher spell on any creature and have the Nivmagus Elemental exile the copies that are cast. Note that this will happen <em>after</em> combat damage, so unless the ciphered creature has first strike, the +1/+1 counters will not count towards the Elemental's damage for that turn.</p>

<p>As far as I understand, there is no limit to the number or identities of cipher cards that can be encoded on a creature.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-09T00:12:11.747Z
Minor point: it doesn't matter if the ciphered creature has first strike, the +1/+1 counters still won't add to damage that turn.  No one has priority to cast spells or place triggered abilities on the stack during either combat damage step, so the counters can't be added until after all damage is dealt.
mjqxxxx
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-09T02:20:44.753Z
@mjqxxxx, that's incorrect. Both players get priority after the combat damage step and the first-strike damage step (if it occurs). If an encoded spell goes on the stack when first-strike damage occurs, then it's perfectly possible to exile the encoded copy and have the Nivmagus elemental get the +1/+1 counters in time for the regular combat damage step.
JSBձոգչ
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-09T02:23:56.667Z
@mjqxxxx See the comp rules sections 510.4 and 510.5.
JSBձոգչ
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-07T18:41:36.503Z
2013-01-07T18:41:36.503Z
JSBձոգչ
<p>since cipher triggers by combat damage to the player, first strike shouldn't apply any real changes to the mechanic of cipher. first strike applies damage first during blocking to a creature assigned to block, thus not applying damage to the player. unless double strike may be interrupted during the damage phase, double strike will not benefit nivmagus that turn, but the next.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-09-28T04:06:03.920Z
2013-09-28T04:06:03.920Z
nanim0
<p>If you eat a spell with Nivmagus, it won't resolve, so you don't perform any of its spell abilities, so you don't perform its cipher ability. You'll get the +1/+1 counters, but that's it.</p>

<p>Now let's say you did let a cipher spell resolve, and you did attach it a creature. Since a copy of a spell is a spell, you can eat the copies created by cipher. But again, the spell won't resolve if you do. You'll get the +1/+1 counters, but that's it.</p>

<p>Note that you can't encode the copies created by cipher because you can only encode spell <em>cards</em> with cipher, so eating the spell copies is not as expensive as eating the original. It actually sounds like a good use of cipher to me :)</p>

<p>Note that the spell triggers after damage is dealt, so the +1/+1 counters it gets will only help it the next combat (except possibly if it has first strike or double strike).</p>

<p>Yes, multiple spells can be encoded on a single creature.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-07T21:14:39.840Z
Although, I have to admit, the idea of growing by +2 for every combat damage is quite appealing!
corsiKa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-07T21:56:22.443Z
I like it too. It's a good use of cipher. The whole point of cipher is to create a loop, and this is a proper use of a loop :) ...There, made that clear in my answer.
ikegami
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-07T18:46:21.610Z
2013-01-07T21:57:35.173Z
2013-01-07T21:57:35.173Z
ikegami
<p>Well since the new set is available I was wondering the combo between <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nivmagus%20Elemental">Nivmagus Elemental</a> and cipher cards<sup>[1]</sup>.</p>
<p>So let's assume that Nivmagus is on the field then I cast a cipher spell from my hand can I:</p>
<ul>
<li>Eat the spell and mount it on Nivmagus</li>
<li>Eat the cipher spell on each attack</li>
</ul>
<p>Also is it possible to have multiple of the same cipher spells on a target creature?</p>
<br>
<hr />
<ol>
<li>The definition is assumed to be &quot;You may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of the encoded card without paying its mana cost.&quot;</li>
</ol>

<magic-the-gathering>
Nivmagus and cipher card rulings
wesdfgfgd
# Nivmagus and cipher card rulings

(Asked by: username_0 on 2013-01-07)

Well since the new set is available I was wondering the combo between [Nivmagus Elemental](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nivmagus%20Elemental) and cipher cards[1].

So let's assume that Nivmagus is on the field then I cast a cipher spell from my hand can I:

* Eat the spell and mount it on Nivmagus
* Eat the cipher spell on each attack

Also is it possible to have multiple of the same cipher spells on a target creature?

  

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1. The definition is assumed to be "You may exile this spell card encoded on a creature you control. Whenever that creature deals combat damage to a player, its controller may cast a copy of the encoded card without paying its mana cost."

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering


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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2013-01-07. Score: 15 | Accepted answer

If you eat a spell with Nivmagus, it won't resolve, so you don't perform any of its spell abilities, so you don't perform its cipher ability. You'll get the +1/+1 counters, but that's it.

Now let's say you did let a cipher spell resolve, and you did attach it a creature. Since a copy of a spell is a spell, you can eat the copies created by cipher. But again, the spell won't resolve if you do. You'll get the +1/+1 counters, but that's it.

Note that you can't encode the copies created by cipher because you can only encode spell *cards* with cipher, so eating the spell copies is not as expensive as eating the original. It actually sounds like a good use of cipher to me :)

Note that the spell triggers after damage is dealt, so the +1/+1 counters it gets will only help it the next combat (except possibly if it has first strike or double strike).

Yes, multiple spells can be encoded on a single creature.

> **Comments:**
> **username_5**: Although, I have to admit, the idea of growing by +2 for every combat damage is quite appealing!  
> **username_4**: I like it too. It's a good use of cipher. The whole point of cipher is to create a loop, and this is a proper use of a loop :) ...There, made that clear in my answer.  

---

### Answer by username_1 on 2013-01-07. Score: 10

You cannot have Nivmagus "eat" the spell and still cipher it on Nivmagus. Ciphering is part of the spell's effect, and if the spell is countered or exiled before resolution, then none of its effects occur.

You can, however, encode the cipher spell on any creature and have the Nivmagus Elemental exile the copies that are cast. Note that this will happen *after* combat damage, so unless the ciphered creature has first strike, the +1/+1 counters will not count towards the Elemental's damage for that turn.

As far as I understand, there is no limit to the number or identities of cipher cards that can be encoded on a creature.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: Minor point: it doesn't matter if the ciphered creature has first strike, the +1/+1 counters still won't add to damage that turn.  No one has priority to cast spells or place triggered abilities on the stack during either combat damage step, so the counters can't be added until after all damage is dealt.  
> **username_1**: @username_2, that's incorrect. Both players get priority after the combat damage step and the first-strike damage step (if it occurs). If an encoded spell goes on the stack when first-strike damage occurs, then it's perfectly possible to exile the encoded copy and have the Nivmagus elemental get the +1/+1 counters in time for the regular combat damage step.  
> **username_1**: @username_2 See the comp rules sections 510.4 and 510.5.  

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### Answer by username_3 on 2013-09-28. Score: -1

since cipher triggers by combat damage to the player, first strike shouldn't apply any real changes to the mechanic of cipher. first strike applies damage first during blocking to a creature assigned to block, thus not applying damage to the player. unless double strike may be interrupted during the damage phase, double strike will not benefit nivmagus that turn, but the next.


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