<h3>The joseki</h3>
<p>This is, as <a href="https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/60/mafu">mafu</a> pointed out, the result of a joseki starting with high and low near kakaris against a hoshi, shown in  <em>38 Basic Joseki, page 188, Dia. 4</em> (with colours swapped and rotated to match the question), and <a href="http://www.josekipedia.com/#path:pdqfttndnemeoeqcqdpcrcodpfmd" rel="nofollow noreferrer">in Josekipedia</a>:</p>
<pre><code>$$Wc Double kakari joseki
$$ -----------
$$ ..........-
$$ ......c7b.-
$$ a...X.54..-
$$ O...9.O6..-
$$ d....38...-
$$ .....1X...-
$$ .....20...-
$$ ..........-
</code></pre>
<p>N.B. The pincer is not visible in the diagram mentioned in the question.</p>
<p>The position is also shown in Ishida’s <em>Dictionary of Basic Joseki, Vol II, p. 186, Dia. 96</em>, but with the White pincer (Black in Ishida as the colours are reversed) at <strong>a</strong>; in this case, after White <strong>9</strong>, Black exchanges <strong>b</strong> for White <strong>c</strong> before connecting at <strong>10</strong>, and finally White plays at <strong>d</strong>.</p>
<p>This joseki appeared not to be in Senseis Library, though it belonged on the page <a href="https://senseis.xmp.net/?44PointLowHighDoubleApproachHane" rel="nofollow noreferrer">4-4 point, low-high double approach, hane</a>; I have since added it there. <a href="http://eidogo.com/#kjd" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Eidogo</a> appears to contain only double high and double low kakaris against hoshi, but not the high/low variant.</p>
<h3>How to find it</h3>
<p><em><strong>To be worked out</strong></em></p>
<blockquote>
<p>I tried without success to find this joseki/position with pattern search on <a href="https://senseis.xmp.net/?positionsearch=1" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Sensei’ s Library</a> and <a href="http://eidogo.com/#search" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Eidogo</a>. That was reasonable, as it appears not to have been in either source, though I have since added it to Sensei and it is now found. I also failed to find it in <em>38 Basic Joseki</em>, and in Ishida’s <em>Dictionary of Basic Joseki</em>; that was mainly due to not guessing correctly how the joseki started.  I also failed to find it by experimentation on <a href="http://www.josekipedia.com/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Josekipedia</a>, again through not trying guessing the start. <em><strong>To add</strong>: suggestions for more effective searching</em>.</p>
<p>Since Black has seven stones to White’s six, he must have started (probably 3-3, 3-4 or 4-5) or White must have started and then played tenuki.</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-17T12:36:43.683Z
2018-04-23T16:47:24.653Z
2020-06-17T09:01:24.697Z
PJTraill
<p>When introducing pincer <a href="/questions/tagged/joseki" class="post-tag" title="show questions tagged &#39;joseki&#39;" rel="tag">joseki</a> on page 60 of <em>38 Basic Joseki</em>, Kiyoshi Kosugi and James Davies use this position as an illustration:</p>

<pre><code>$$Bc Illustration of pincer
$$ ---------
$$ ........-
$$ .....O..-
$$ ..X.OX..-
$$ ..O.OX..-
$$ ...OX...-
$$ ...OX...-
$$ ...XX...-
$$ ........-
$$ ........-
$$ ....,...-
$$ ........-
$$ .....1..-
$$ ........-
$$ ........-
$$ .....O..-
$$ ....,...-
$$ ....X...-
$$ ........-
$$ ........-
$$ ---------
</code></pre>

<p>I have tried without success to find this joseki/position with pattern search on <a href="https://senseis.xmp.net/?positionsearch=1" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Sensei’ s Library</a> and <a href="http://eidogo.com/#search" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Eidogo</a> and by experimentation on <a href="http://www.josekipedia.com/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Josekipedia</a>. I also could not find it in <em>38 Basic Joseki</em>, nor in Ishida’s <em>Dictionary of Basic Joseki</em>, though perhaps I erroneously skipped some positions that seemed to me to be excluded.</p>

<p>Does this position arise from a recognised joseki? If so, which, and how might I have been able to find it on-line or in a book?</p>

<p>Since Black has seven stones to White’s six, he must have started (probably 3-3, 3-4 or 4-5) or White must have played tenuki, but I cannot find a very plausible order.</p>

<h3>Update: partial match</h3>

<p>While <a href="https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/60/mafu">mafu</a> correctly remarked that it looked like a <em>hoshi approached from both sides, low and high, with black then jumping into the corner after white attached on top of the high approaching stone</em>, I found <a href="http://www.josekipedia.com/#path:qdndnepcpdodoeqcmd" rel="nofollow noreferrer">the following partial position</a> in Josekipedia:</p>

<pre><code>$$Wc Partial sequence
$$ ---------
$$ ........-
$$ ........-
$$ ....18..-
$$ ....54..-
$$ ...76...-
$$ ...32...-
$$ ....a...-
$$ ........-
</code></pre>

<p>which it attributes to <em><a href="https://senseis.xmp.net/?GendaiJosekiJiten" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Encyclopedia of Joseki</a> - Diagram 2.9365</em>. White 3 is a trick move, this is the refutation, but it continues at <strong>a</strong> (reverting to a standard 1-point high joseki), so this is not the answer.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-12T16:11:22.847Z
Looks like a hoshi that was approached from both sides, low and high, with black then jumping into the corner after white attached on top of the  high approaching stone. I don't know the joseki sequence, but the result seems like a perfect fit for this.
mafu
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-12T18:21:02.353Z
@Mafu: You are right; it is _38 Basic Joseki, p 188, Dia. 4_ — not sure how I missed it :(. If you do not care to provide this as an answer, I shall do it myself.
PJTraill
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-12T21:32:52.737Z
Please feel free to put up the answer! I was just guessing.
mafu
<go><joseki>
What joseki, if any, yields this position on page 60 of 38 Basic Joseki?
PJTraill
# What joseki, if any, yields this position on page 60 of 38 Basic Joseki?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-04-11)

When introducing pincer [joseki](/questions/tagged/joseki "show questions tagged 'joseki'") on page 60 of *38 Basic Joseki*, Kiyoshi Kosugi and James Davies use this position as an illustration:

```
$$Bc Illustration of pincer
$$ ---------
$$ ........-
$$ .....O..-
$$ ..X.OX..-
$$ ..O.OX..-
$$ ...OX...-
$$ ...OX...-
$$ ...XX...-
$$ ........-
$$ ........-
$$ ....,...-
$$ ........-
$$ .....1..-
$$ ........-
$$ ........-
$$ .....O..-
$$ ....,...-
$$ ....X...-
$$ ........-
$$ ........-
$$ ---------

```

I have tried without success to find this joseki/position with pattern search on [Sensei’ s Library](https://senseis.xmp.net/?positionsearch=1) and [Eidogo](http://eidogo.com/#search) and by experimentation on [Josekipedia](http://www.josekipedia.com/). I also could not find it in *38 Basic Joseki*, nor in Ishida’s *Dictionary of Basic Joseki*, though perhaps I erroneously skipped some positions that seemed to me to be excluded.

Does this position arise from a recognised joseki? If so, which, and how might I have been able to find it on-line or in a book?

Since Black has seven stones to White’s six, he must have started (probably 3-3, 3-4 or 4-5) or White must have played tenuki, but I cannot find a very plausible order.

### Update: partial match

While [username_1](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/60/username_1) correctly remarked that it looked like a *hoshi approached from both sides, low and high, with black then jumping into the corner after white attached on top of the high approaching stone*, I found [the following partial position](http://www.josekipedia.com/#path:qdndnepcpdodoeqcmd) in Josekipedia:

```
$$Wc Partial sequence
$$ ---------
$$ ........-
$$ ........-
$$ ....18..-
$$ ....54..-
$$ ...76...-
$$ ...32...-
$$ ....a...-
$$ ........-

```

which it attributes to *[Encyclopedia of Joseki](https://senseis.xmp.net/?GendaiJosekiJiten) - Diagram 2.9365*. White 3 is a trick move, this is the refutation, but it continues at **a** (reverting to a standard 1-point high joseki), so this is not the answer.

**Tags:** go, joseki

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Looks like a hoshi that was approached from both sides, low and high, with black then jumping into the corner after white attached on top of the  high approaching stone. I don't know the joseki sequence, but the result seems like a perfect fit for this.  
> **username_0**: @username_1: You are right; it is _38 Basic Joseki, p 188, Dia. 4_ — not sure how I missed it :(. If you do not care to provide this as an answer, I shall do it myself.  
> **username_1**: Please feel free to put up the answer! I was just guessing.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_0 on 2018-04-17. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

### The joseki

This is, as [username_1](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/60/username_1) pointed out, the result of a joseki starting with high and low near kakaris against a hoshi, shown in *38 Basic Joseki, page 188, Dia. 4* (with colours swapped and rotated to match the question), and [in Josekipedia](http://www.josekipedia.com/#path:pdqfttndnemeoeqcqdpcrcodpfmd):

```
$$Wc Double kakari joseki
$$ -----------
$$ ..........-
$$ ......c7b.-
$$ a...X.54..-
$$ O...9.O6..-
$$ d....38...-
$$ .....1X...-
$$ .....20...-
$$ ..........-

```

N.B. The pincer is not visible in the diagram mentioned in the question.

The position is also shown in Ishida’s *Dictionary of Basic Joseki, Vol II, p. 186, Dia. 96*, but with the White pincer (Black in Ishida as the colours are reversed) at **a**; in this case, after White **9**, Black exchanges **b** for White **c** before connecting at **10**, and finally White plays at **d**.

This joseki appeared not to be in Senseis Library, though it belonged on the page [4-4 point, low-high double approach, hane](https://senseis.xmp.net/?44PointLowHighDoubleApproachHane); I have since added it there. [Eidogo](http://eidogo.com/#kjd) appears to contain only double high and double low kakaris against hoshi, but not the high/low variant.

### How to find it

***To be worked out***

> I tried without success to find this joseki/position with pattern search on [Sensei’ s Library](https://senseis.xmp.net/?positionsearch=1) and [Eidogo](http://eidogo.com/#search). That was reasonable, as it appears not to have been in either source, though I have since added it to Sensei and it is now found. I also failed to find it in *38 Basic Joseki*, and in Ishida’s *Dictionary of Basic Joseki*; that was mainly due to not guessing correctly how the joseki started. I also failed to find it by experimentation on [Josekipedia](http://www.josekipedia.com/), again through not trying guessing the start. ***To add**: suggestions for more effective searching*.
>
> Since Black has seven stones to White’s six, he must have started (probably 3-3, 3-4 or 4-5) or White must have started and then played tenuki.


---

