<p>There have been instances in the past when cards were implemented incorrectly. For example, there was a bug in March where, as a result of code changes to make <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gutter%20Grime">Gutter Grime</a> work, equipment that granted abilities to the creature that referenced the equipment by name could affect every permanent you control (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/11xs3q7/what_made_me_sacrifice_all_of_my_permanents_here/jd5u2yh/?context=1000" rel="nofollow noreferrer">source</a>). For example, activating the ability granted by <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Citizen%27s%20Crowbar">Citizen&#39;s Crowbar</a> would sacrifice all of your permanents to destroy one permanent, and activating the ability granted by <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ninja%27s%20Kunai">Ninja&#39;s Kunai</a> would sacrifice all of your permanents and deal 3 damage times the number of permanents sacrificed to the target.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-07-27T15:26:44.220Z
2023-07-27T18:08:40.647Z
2023-07-27T18:08:40.647Z
murgatroid99
<p>Assuming that the analysis from the members here is correct, Arena is getting the rules incorrect in <a href="https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/59315/goddric-cloaked-reveler-and-witness-protection">the scenario in this question</a>: Goddric should be a 1/1 Citizen, but Arena has Goddric as a 1/1 Dragon instead.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-27T13:59:43.217Z
Nevermind, I'm no longer sure
Arcanist Lupus
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-27T16:27:50.080Z
Here's what I think Arena does: it either gets the timestamps wrong or incorrectly sees a dependency between Goddric and Witness Protection, so it applies Witness Protection's effect first, *and* it doesn't apply rule 613.6 correctly, so it doesn't apply Goddric's effect at all in layer 6 and 7.
murgatroid99
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-27T16:53:26.053Z
Goddric? Who's Goddric? I only see a perfectly Legitimate Businessperson, no Goddric here.
Cain Goldhardt
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-27T08:02:27.610Z
2023-09-27T08:02:27.610Z
Philip Kendall
<p>I've seen numerous off hand comments claiming that Arena doesn't implement the rules of Magic the Gathering correctly.  (Here's a single example on a comment to my answer: <a href="https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/59061/does-a-phased-out-ring-bearer-stop-being-the-ring-bearer-when-the-ring-tempts-yo">Does a phased-out Ring-bearer stop being the Ring-bearer when the Ring tempts you?</a>)</p>
<p>Every rules discussion I follow on Stack Exchange that seems counter intuitive or wrong to me, I test on Arena, and it has always been implemented correctly.</p>
<p>I am aware that there have been some blatently bad bugs, aside from those, are there examples where the rules were implemented incorrectly?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-07-27T12:36:28.590Z
I think the comment on your answer is accurate and it is a large assumption to think that they got things wrong.
Joe W
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-07-27T12:57:41.733Z
While a lot of them are UI-only, a number of things in the publicly documented [Arena Known Issues List](https://mtgarena-support.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000091646-Known-Issues-List) are gameplay affecting.
Philip Kendall
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-07-27T15:19:13.947Z
I only see a few items on that list that are even potentially incorrect implementations of game rules, and most of those are phrased in a way that they could just be UI bugs.
murgatroid99
<magic-the-gathering><mtg-arena>
Are there examples where Arena has implemented the rules incorrectly?
John
# Are there examples where Arena has implemented the rules incorrectly?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-07-27)

I've seen numerous off hand comments claiming that Arena doesn't implement the rules of Magic the Gathering correctly. (Here's a single example on a comment to my answer: [Does a phased-out Ring-bearer stop being the Ring-bearer when the Ring tempts you?](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/59061/does-a-phased-out-ring-bearer-stop-being-the-ring-bearer-when-the-ring-tempts-yo))

Every rules discussion I follow on Stack Exchange that seems counter intuitive or wrong to me, I test on Arena, and it has always been implemented correctly.

I am aware that there have been some blatently bad bugs, aside from those, are there examples where the rules were implemented incorrectly?

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering, mtg-arena

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I think the comment on your answer is accurate and it is a large assumption to think that they got things wrong.  
> **username_2**: While a lot of them are UI-only, a number of things in the publicly documented [Arena Known Issues List](https://mtgarena-support.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000091646-Known-Issues-List) are gameplay affecting.  
> **username_3**: I only see a few items on that list that are even potentially incorrect implementations of game rules, and most of those are phrased in a way that they could just be UI bugs.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2023-07-27. Score: 4 | Accepted answer

There have been instances in the past when cards were implemented incorrectly. For example, there was a bug in March where, as a result of code changes to make [Gutter Grime](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gutter%20Grime) work, equipment that granted abilities to the creature that referenced the equipment by name could affect every permanent you control ([source](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/11xs3q7/what_made_me_sacrifice_all_of_my_permanents_here/jd5u2yh/?context=1000)). For example, activating the ability granted by [Citizen's Crowbar](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Citizen%27s%20Crowbar) would sacrifice all of your permanents to destroy one permanent, and activating the ability granted by [Ninja's Kunai](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ninja%27s%20Kunai) would sacrifice all of your permanents and deal 3 damage times the number of permanents sacrificed to the target.


---

### Answer by username_2 on 2023-09-27. Score: 1

Assuming that the analysis from the members here is correct, Arena is getting the rules incorrect in [the scenario in this question](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/59315/goddric-cloaked-reveler-and-witness-protection): Goddric should be a 1/1 Citizen, but Arena has Goddric as a 1/1 Dragon instead.

> **Comments:**
> **username_4**: Nevermind, I'm no longer sure  
> **username_3**: Here's what I think Arena does: it either gets the timestamps wrong or incorrectly sees a dependency between Goddric and Witness Protection, so it applies Witness Protection's effect first, *and* it doesn't apply rule 613.6 correctly, so it doesn't apply Goddric's effect at all in layer 6 and 7.  
> **username_5**: Goddric? Who's Goddric? I only see a perfectly Legitimate Businessperson, no Goddric here.  

---

