<p>I'm gonna throw some text at you (emphasis mine)</p>

<p>From the text on Necronomicon:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Exhaust and spend 2 movement points to make a Lore (-2) check. If you pass, draw 1 Spell and <strong>lose</strong> 2 Sanity. If you fail, nothing happens.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>From the text on Elder Sign:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>When sealing a gate, <strong>lose</strong> 1 Stamina and 1 Sanity and return this card
  to the box. You do not need to make a skill check or spend any Clue
  tokens to seal the gate. In addition, remove one doom token from the
  Ancient One's doom track.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>From Harvey's Strong Mind ability:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Strong Mind - Any Phase: Harvey reduces all Sanity <strong>losses</strong> he suffers by 1, to a minimum of 0.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>From the 'Casting Spells' section of the AH rulebook:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Every spell has a casting modifier, and most have a Sanity <strong><em>cost</em></strong></p>
</blockquote>

<p>And finally from the Fantasy Flight FAQ:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Q: Does the Strong Mind ability (reduce all Sanity loss 
  by 1) of the professor, Harvey Walters, apply to the casting of spells?</p>
  
  <p>A: No. The professor’s ability works on <strong>losses</strong>, not <strong><em>costs</em></strong>. 
  The same distinction applies to the gangster, Michael 
  McGlen, and his ability to reduce Stamina losses. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>I can see where'd you be confused due to the wording in the DH rulebook, but Harvey would reduce the sanity loss from both tomes and the Elder Sign. It's a fine line between paying some price in order to activate some ability and losing something due to activating some ability. If the text in question specifically states <code>loss</code> or <code>loses</code>, etc. then damage reduction abilities can be used.</p>

<p>EDIT:
For an additional example of cost vs. loss, consider the card 'Pentagram of Blood' from the Curse of the Dark Pharaoh expansion:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Discard this card and X Stamina to ward your current street.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Or from the revised edition:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Spend X Stamina and discard this card</p>
</blockquote>

<p><strong>Loss</strong> of staminia isn't explicitly called out in either of those ability descriptions. You could almost break it down as a 'Do X to do Y, then Z'. The necronomicon is '..spend 2 movement...to make a Lore (-2) check...then lose 2 sanity'. This wording structure won't work all the time, but hopefully it'll aid in determining when damage reduction abilities can apply.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-12-21T14:29:10.993Z
2012-12-21T14:45:06.567Z
2012-12-21T14:45:06.567Z
EvilAmarant7x
<p>Does Harvey Walters prevent the loss of one Sanity when he:</p>

<ul>
<li>uses an elder sign?</li>
<li>succeed in reading a tome?</li>
</ul>

<p>Which part of <em>The Dunwich Horror Rulebook</em> (page 10) apply? </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>The Strong Mind ability only applies to involuntary losses. Voluntary expenditures to gain some benefit (such as casting a Spell) are not affected.</p>
</blockquote>

<ul>
<li>To read a book gives some benefit (such as clue token or spell) so Sanity loss <strong>is not prevented?</strong></li>
<li>To use elder sign doesn't give a benefit to the character himself (he  seals a gate and removes a doom token) so Sanity loss <strong>is prevented?</strong></li>
</ul>

<arkham-horror>
Arkham: Harvey Walters Sanity loss for tome or elder sign
Philippe Blayo
# Arkham: Harvey Walters Sanity loss for tome or elder sign

(Asked by: username_0 on 2012-12-21)

Does Harvey Walters prevent the loss of one Sanity when he:

* uses an elder sign?
* succeed in reading a tome?

Which part of *The Dunwich Horror Rulebook* (page 10) apply?

> The Strong Mind ability only applies to involuntary losses. Voluntary expenditures to gain some benefit (such as casting a Spell) are not affected.

* To read a book gives some benefit (such as clue token or spell) so Sanity loss **is not prevented?**
* To use elder sign doesn't give a benefit to the character himself (he seals a gate and removes a doom token) so Sanity loss **is prevented?**

**Tags:** arkham-horror


---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2012-12-21. Score: 4 | Accepted answer

I'm gonna throw some text at you (emphasis mine)

From the text on Necronomicon:

> Exhaust and spend 2 movement points to make a Lore (-2) check. If you pass, draw 1 Spell and **lose** 2 Sanity. If you fail, nothing happens.

From the text on Elder Sign:

> When sealing a gate, **lose** 1 Stamina and 1 Sanity and return this card
> to the box. You do not need to make a skill check or spend any Clue
> tokens to seal the gate. In addition, remove one doom token from the
> Ancient One's doom track.

From Harvey's Strong Mind ability:

> Strong Mind - Any Phase: Harvey reduces all Sanity **losses** he suffers by 1, to a minimum of 0.

From the 'Casting Spells' section of the AH rulebook:

> Every spell has a casting modifier, and most have a Sanity ***cost***

And finally from the Fantasy Flight FAQ:

> Q: Does the Strong Mind ability (reduce all Sanity loss
> by 1) of the professor, Harvey Walters, apply to the casting of spells?
>
> A: No. The professor’s ability works on **losses**, not ***costs***.
> The same distinction applies to the gangster, Michael
> McGlen, and his ability to reduce Stamina losses.

I can see where'd you be confused due to the wording in the DH rulebook, but Harvey would reduce the sanity loss from both tomes and the Elder Sign. It's a fine line between paying some price in order to activate some ability and losing something due to activating some ability. If the text in question specifically states `loss` or `loses`, etc. then damage reduction abilities can be used.

EDIT:
For an additional example of cost vs. loss, consider the card 'Pentagram of Blood' from the Curse of the Dark Pharaoh expansion:

> Discard this card and X Stamina to ward your current street.

Or from the revised edition:

> Spend X Stamina and discard this card

**Loss** of staminia isn't explicitly called out in either of those ability descriptions. You could almost break it down as a 'Do X to do Y, then Z'. The necronomicon is '..spend 2 movement...to make a Lore (-2) check...then lose 2 sanity'. This wording structure won't work all the time, but hopefully it'll aid in determining when damage reduction abilities can apply.


---

