<p>@shujaa ok let me try... btw, how to mark steps larger than 9?</p>

<p>The idea of hane is to exposure white's vulnerable parts:</p>

<pre><code>$$W Separate black's corner and pincer
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .....87....-
$$ ...3..251..-
$$ .......64..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-
</code></pre>

<p>Now white cannot cover the cut at A and capture black 1 at the same time:</p>

<pre><code>$$B Black in good shape: thick.
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .....1Oa...-
$$ ...O.2XOO..-
$$ ......3XX..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-
</code></pre>

<p>This is of course inferior:</p>

<pre><code>$$W black gets a big corner
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ .....1.....-
$$ ....3XO24..-
$$ ...O.OXOO..-
$$ ......XXX..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-
</code></pre>

<p>A possible sequence:</p>

<pre><code>$$W White's pincer is already hurt
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ......1....-
$$ ....6XO....-
$$ ...O2OXOO..-
$$ ....43XXX..-
$$ .....5.....-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-
</code></pre>

<p>... to continue:</p>

<pre><code>$$W Black escaped at the side
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ......O.5a.-
$$ ....XXO..3.-
$$ ...OXOXOO2.-
$$ ....XOXXX4.-
$$ .....O.....-
$$ .......1...-
$$ ........6..-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-
</code></pre>

<p>notice here white 5 is a must otherwise black attack at "a".</p>

<p>Now white still need sort out the center group. This result favors <strong>black</strong>.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-08-26T16:49:20.660Z
Great! Unfortunately, we're limited to numbers less than 10, at least for now.
Gregor Thomas
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-22T10:42:34.837Z
This could be an interesting feature: [Sensei's Library / How diagram works / Starting move number](https://senseis.xmp.net/?HowDiagramsWork#toc5)
Stef
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-22T10:57:22.843Z
Actually it appears to already work here on boardgames.stackexchange: [How do we enter go boards on this site?](https://boardgames.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/987/how-do-we-enter-go-boards-on-this-site/1659#1659). Each diagram is limited to 10 moves, written as 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0 in the code, but you can start the numbering at any number by specifying the number of the first move in the header.
Stef
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-08-26T13:28:12.283Z
2014-08-04T06:04:57.020Z
2014-08-04T06:04:57.020Z
athos
<p>Anyway, the 3-4 exchange is damezumari, and should be left unplayed, If w doesn't protect, b can later cut at 4, then at c...</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-23T14:32:07.997Z
but if B leaves out the 3-4 exchange and plays elsewhere wouldn't W cut immediately? I do like the idea of cutting at 4, then c.
Gregor Thomas
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-30T12:10:25.200Z
@shujaa: If you're going to play black 5 anyway to protect the cut, why would you exchange 3 for 4 first? Certainly better to play 1-2-5 and let white fix at 3 in gote so black gets to play on the right side.
mafu
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-22T19:59:35.120Z
2012-08-22T19:59:35.120Z
denis  feldmann
<p>This is a really tough question, the situation is super complex.</p>

<p>I would certainly omit the 3:4 exchange, not only is it against proverb (hane at the head of 3 stones) but it appears to be a major aji keshi in combination with the cut in the corner.</p>

<pre><code>$$B Aji
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ....32Oa...-
$$ ...O.1XOO..-
$$ .......XX..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-
</code></pre>

<p>After 6, that cut seems to exist still, so maybe white should have played one space closer to the edge, or fixed in a different way e.g. like this:</p>

<pre><code>$$W Fix the cut
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ....OOOc...-
$$ a..OXXXOO3.-
$$ .......XX1.-
$$ .....X...2.-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-
</code></pre>

<p>Regarding the suggested moves b and c your original diagram, I believe both of them are thinkable. Refuting any of them is probably impossible unless you are high dan. In an amateur game, I think you should be able to get a reasonable result with any of them.</p>

<p>By the way, my first idea was to play like this:</p>

<pre><code>$$B Simple
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .....2O....-
$$ ...O..XOO..-
$$ ......1XX..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,3..-
$$ ...........-
</code></pre>

<p>I think that way is okay-ish. Locally it appears to be good for white, but we have to consider that white had 1 more stone there to begin with. Also, we must compare this result with the usual joseki results - in this variation, white does not use her stone to attack black, but simply takes territory. Also, maybe the white pincer stone is in an uninteresting place and thus a bit of a waste.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-24T10:51:17.960Z
2012-08-24T10:51:17.960Z
mafu
<p>If White plays 7 before 6, you'd probably counterpincer one or two spaces below. Then take 6.
In playing as she did, she was adopting a "live and let live" policy, instead of  heading for complications.</p>

<p>Of course, the wisdom of this policy depends on what you have below 7 and what White has left of 6.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-17T19:18:58.703Z
2012-08-17T19:18:58.703Z
Tom Au
<p>In a game earlier today I encountered a deviation from the Magic Sword pattern that I haven't been able to find anywhere. Instead of cutting, White seemed to offer a peaceful trade of influence for territory (see the first diagram). I wonder if, as Black, I could have gotten a significantly better outcome.</p>

<pre><code>$$W 7 deviates from the usual Magic Sword
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .....b7c...-
$$ ...3.a251..-
$$ .......64..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-
</code></pre>

<p>I considered playing aggressively at <code>b</code> or <code>c</code>, but couldn't find an outcome I was very happy with. (White had the upper left corner, and I had star point stones in both of the bottom corners.)</p>

<p>Cutting at <code>c</code>, I found a way to get the corner, but it strengthened white on the top and also gave her a strong attack on the right. The double hane at <code>b</code> looked more promising, but I couldn't find a way to kill the corner, and the result just looked like a complicated fight.</p>

<p>In the game I didn't cut and this is how things played out:</p>

<pre><code>$$B Actual game
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ....42O....-
$$ 6..O31XOO..-
$$ .......XX..-
$$ .....5.....-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ .......7...-
</code></pre>

<p>White 6 seemed slow to me, and I'm surprised she didn't take the opportunity to play somewhere on the right to negate the wall; I was very happy to play at 7. If White had played 6 on the wide-open right side, I would have felt behind after the corner exchange.</p>

<go><joseki-deviation>
Magic Sword: Peaceful Variation or is Punishment Possible?
Gregor Thomas
# Magic Sword: Peaceful Variation or is Punishment Possible?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2012-08-16)

In a game earlier today I encountered a deviation from the Magic Sword pattern that I haven't been able to find anywhere. Instead of cutting, White seemed to offer a peaceful trade of influence for territory (see the first diagram). I wonder if, as Black, I could have gotten a significantly better outcome.

```
$$W 7 deviates from the usual Magic Sword
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .....b7c...-
$$ ...3.a251..-
$$ .......64..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-

```

I considered playing aggressively at `b` or `c`, but couldn't find an outcome I was very happy with. (White had the upper left corner, and I had star point stones in both of the bottom corners.)

Cutting at `c`, I found a way to get the corner, but it strengthened white on the top and also gave her a strong attack on the right. The double hane at `b` looked more promising, but I couldn't find a way to kill the corner, and the result just looked like a complicated fight.

In the game I didn't cut and this is how things played out:

```
$$B Actual game
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ....42O....-
$$ 6..O31XOO..-
$$ .......XX..-
$$ .....5.....-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ .......7...-

```

White 6 seemed slow to me, and I'm surprised she didn't take the opportunity to play somewhere on the right to negate the wall; I was very happy to play at 7. If White had played 6 on the wide-open right side, I would have felt behind after the corner exchange.

**Tags:** go, joseki-deviation


---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2013-08-26. Score: 6

@shujaa ok let me try... btw, how to mark steps larger than 9?

The idea of hane is to exposure white's vulnerable parts:

```
$$W Separate black's corner and pincer
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .....87....-
$$ ...3..251..-
$$ .......64..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-

```

Now white cannot cover the cut at A and capture black 1 at the same time:

```
$$B Black in good shape: thick.
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .....1Oa...-
$$ ...O.2XOO..-
$$ ......3XX..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-

```

This is of course inferior:

```
$$W black gets a big corner
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ .....1.....-
$$ ....3XO24..-
$$ ...O.OXOO..-
$$ ......XXX..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-

```

A possible sequence:

```
$$W White's pincer is already hurt
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ......1....-
$$ ....6XO....-
$$ ...O2OXOO..-
$$ ....43XXX..-
$$ .....5.....-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-

```

... to continue:

```
$$W Black escaped at the side
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ......O.5a.-
$$ ....XXO..3.-
$$ ...OXOXOO2.-
$$ ....XOXXX4.-
$$ .....O.....-
$$ .......1...-
$$ ........6..-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-

```

notice here white 5 is a must otherwise black attack at "a".

Now white still need sort out the center group. This result favors **black**.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Great! Unfortunately, we're limited to numbers less than 10, at least for now.  
> **username_2**: This could be an interesting feature: [Sensei's Library / How diagram works / Starting move number](https://senseis.xmp.net/?HowDiagramsWork#toc5)  
> **username_2**: Actually it appears to already work here on boardgames.stackexchange: [How do we enter go boards on this site?](https://boardgames.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/987/how-do-we-enter-go-boards-on-this-site/1659#1659). Each diagram is limited to 10 moves, written as 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0 in the code, but you can start the numbering at any number by specifying the number of the first move in the header.  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2012-08-22. Score: 5

Anyway, the 3-4 exchange is damezumari, and should be left unplayed, If w doesn't protect, b can later cut at 4, then at c...

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: but if B leaves out the 3-4 exchange and plays elsewhere wouldn't W cut immediately? I do like the idea of cutting at 4, then c.  
> **username_4**: @shujaa: If you're going to play black 5 anyway to protect the cut, why would you exchange 3 for 4 first? Certainly better to play 1-2-5 and let white fix at 3 in gote so black gets to play on the right side.  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2012-08-24. Score: 3

This is a really tough question, the situation is super complex.

I would certainly omit the 3:4 exchange, not only is it against proverb (hane at the head of 3 stones) but it appears to be a major aji keshi in combination with the cut in the corner.

```
$$B Aji
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ....32Oa...-
$$ ...O.1XOO..-
$$ .......XX..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-

```

After 6, that cut seems to exist still, so maybe white should have played one space closer to the edge, or fixed in a different way e.g. like this:

```
$$W Fix the cut
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ....OOOc...-
$$ a..OXXXOO3.-
$$ .......XX1.-
$$ .....X...2.-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,...-
$$ ...........-

```

Regarding the suggested moves b and c your original diagram, I believe both of them are thinkable. Refuting any of them is probably impossible unless you are high dan. In an amateur game, I think you should be able to get a reasonable result with any of them.

By the way, my first idea was to play like this:

```
$$B Simple
$$ ------------
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .....2O....-
$$ ...O..XOO..-
$$ ......1XX..-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ ...........-
$$ .......,3..-
$$ ...........-

```

I think that way is okay-ish. Locally it appears to be good for white, but we have to consider that white had 1 more stone there to begin with. Also, we must compare this result with the usual joseki results - in this variation, white does not use her stone to attack black, but simply takes territory. Also, maybe the white pincer stone is in an uninteresting place and thus a bit of a waste.


---

### Answer by username_5 on 2012-08-17. Score: 2

If White plays 7 before 6, you'd probably counterpincer one or two spaces below. Then take 6.
In playing as she did, she was adopting a "live and let live" policy, instead of heading for complications.

Of course, the wisdom of this policy depends on what you have below 7 and what White has left of 6.


---

