<p>They absolutely stay. According to the comprehensive rules, emphasis mine:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>205.1a Some effects set an object's card type. In such cases, the new card type(s) replaces any existing card types. <strong>Counters</strong>, effects, and damage marked on the object remain with it, <strong>even if they are meaningless to the new card type</strong>. </p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-06-12T18:37:11.630Z
Impressively short and to the point. There are 245 occurences of the word *Counter* in the comp rules, and section 121 is literally titled *121. Counters*, and yet you somehow found this in section 205.
Rainbolt
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-06-12T16:46:22.383Z
2014-06-12T16:46:22.383Z
corsiKa
<p>Counters are not removed from a permanent even when they stop being relevant to it.</p>

<p>Take the example of <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bRaging%20Ravine%5d">Raging Ravine</a> : it says </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>2RG: Until end of turn, Raging Ravine becomes a 3/3 red and green
  Elemental creature with "Whenever this creature attacks, put a +1/+1
  counter on it." It's still a land.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>On gatherer we can see the ruling :</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Any +1/+1 counters put on Raging Ravine remain on it even after it
  stops being a creature. They'll have no effect until it becomes a
  creature again.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Related : <a href="https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/16662/can-lands-have-1-1-counters/">Can non-creature permanents have +1/+1 counters?</a></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-06-12T13:41:09.587Z
Better yet, Llanowar Reborn prove that +1/+1 counters can exist on non-creatures without relying on rulings.
ikegami
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-06-12T06:53:13.420Z
2014-06-12T18:33:09.157Z
2017-04-13T12:38:49.990Z
Autar
<p>Do counters added to a god with <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gleam%20of%20Battle">Gleam of Battle</a> disappear when the god stops being a creature?</p>
<p>Scenario: <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Purphoros%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Forge">Purphoros, God of the Forge</a> is a creature (due to devotion reaching the required amount) and Gleam of Battle is also on the battlefield. Then Purphoros attacks and gets a +1/+1 counter for attacking. If my devotion to red then drops below 5 and Purphoros is no longer a creature, would the +1/+1 counters stay on him or will he reset to his original power/toughness level?</p>
<p>My thinking is when he becomes an enchantment he loses it due to the fact that he is no longer a creature and that his power and toughness are technically not there and so he gets remade into being a creature only when devotion is high enough.</p>

<magic-the-gathering>
Do gods keep their +1/+1 counters if they stop being creatures?
Artegar
# Do gods keep their +1/+1 counters if they stop being creatures?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-06-12)

Do counters added to a god with [Gleam of Battle](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gleam%20of%20Battle) disappear when the god stops being a creature?

Scenario: [Purphoros, God of the Forge](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Purphoros%2C%20God%20of%20the%20Forge) is a creature (due to devotion reaching the required amount) and Gleam of Battle is also on the battlefield. Then Purphoros attacks and gets a +1/+1 counter for attacking. If my devotion to red then drops below 5 and Purphoros is no longer a creature, would the +1/+1 counters stay on him or will he reset to his original power/toughness level?

My thinking is when he becomes an enchantment he loses it due to the fact that he is no longer a creature and that his power and toughness are technically not there and so he gets remade into being a creature only when devotion is high enough.

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering


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## 2 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2014-06-12. Score: 6

They absolutely stay. According to the comprehensive rules, emphasis mine:

> 205.1a Some effects set an object's card type. In such cases, the new card type(s) replaces any existing card types. **Counters**, effects, and damage marked on the object remain with it, **even if they are meaningless to the new card type**.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: Impressively short and to the point. There are 245 occurences of the word *Counter* in the comp rules, and section 121 is literally titled *121. Counters*, and yet you somehow found this in section 205.  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2014-06-12. Score: 5

Counters are not removed from a permanent even when they stop being relevant to it.

Take the example of [Raging Ravine](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bRaging%20Ravine%5d) : it says

> 2RG: Until end of turn, Raging Ravine becomes a 3/3 red and green
> Elemental creature with "Whenever this creature attacks, put a +1/+1
> counter on it." It's still a land.

On gatherer we can see the ruling :

> Any +1/+1 counters put on Raging Ravine remain on it even after it
> stops being a creature. They'll have no effect until it becomes a
> creature again.

Related : [Can non-creature permanents have +1/+1 counters?](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/16662/can-lands-have-1-1-counters/)

> **Comments:**
> **username_4**: Better yet, Llanowar Reborn prove that +1/+1 counters can exist on non-creatures without relying on rulings.  

---

