<p>No.</p>
<p>Both abilities of <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bVanquisher%27s%5d%2b%5bBanner%5d">Vanquisher&#39;s Banner</a> and The <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bImmortal%20Sun%5d">Immortal Sun</a> that gives creatures you control +1/+1 are static abilities.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>611.3. A continuous effect may be generated by the static ability of an object.</p>
<p>611.3a A continuous effect generated by a static ability isn’t “locked in”; it applies at any given moment to whatever its text indicates.</p>
<p>611.3b The effect applies at all times that the permanent generating it is on the battlefield or the object generating it is in the
appropriate zone.
<em>Example: A permanent with the static ability “All
white creatures get +1/+1” generates an effect that continuously gives
+1/+1 to each white creature on the battlefield. If a creature becomes white, it gets this bonus; a creature that stops being white loses it.</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>But what comes first when the 1/1 creature enters the battlefield zone. The trigger from <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bMentor%20of%20the%20Meek%5d">Mentor of the Meek</a> or the static abilities?</p>
<blockquote>
<p>611.3c Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They
don’t wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change
it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the
battlefield, <strong>they are applied before determining whether the permanent
will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.</strong>
<em>Example: A permanent with the static ability “All white creatures get
+1/+1” is on the battlefield. A creature spell that would normally create a 1/1 white creature instead creates a 2/2 white creature. The
creature doesn’t enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then change to 2/2.</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>The 1/1 creature enters the battlefield as a 3/3, given that it's the type needed for <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bVanquisher%27s%5d%2b%5bBanner%5d">Vanquisher&#39;s Banner</a>. So <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bMentor%20of%20the%20Meek%5d">Mentor of the Meek</a> won't trigger.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-09T16:09:15.240Z
2018-03-14T15:37:16.073Z
2020-06-17T09:01:24.697Z
Rishaal
<p>If I have <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bVanquisher%27s%5d%2b%5bBanner%5d">Vanquisher&#39;s Banner</a> and <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bThe%20Immortal%20Sun%5d">The Immortal Sun</a> on the battlefield, and a 1/1 creature enters the battlefield under my control, assuming the creature matches the creature type I declared with <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bVanquisher%27s%5d%2b%5bBanner%5d">Vanquisher&#39;s Banner</a>, would I be able to pay 2 mana and use <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bMentor%20of%20the%20Meek%5d">Mentor of the Meek</a> to draw an additional card?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-09T16:05:00.867Z
Possible duplicate of [Bludgeon Brawl & Puresteel Paladin](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/4773/bludgeon-brawl-puresteel-paladin), question appears different, but the answers, answer this question as well.
John
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-09T16:49:08.647Z
I'd rather keep it open as this is a more legible question for the general case.
doppelgreener
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-09T19:27:08.333Z
Where is the 2 mana coming from?
Acccumulation
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-09T21:29:20.107Z
@Acccumulation Would it affect the answer? I think we can assume that the player has enough mana, and that there are no spending restrictions.
Rainbolt
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-12T14:43:09.747Z
@John no it's a different enough case that I would call it different.
Andrew
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-12T14:43:32.767Z
@Acccumulation Does it matter? The question is more "Does the ability trigger" not "How do I pay for it" and the answer as given very well by Rishaal, is no.
Andrew
<magic-the-gathering>
Can I use Mentor of the Meek on small guys with buffed stats?
The Man
# Can I use Mentor of the Meek on small guys with buffed stats?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-03-09)

If I have [Vanquisher's Banner](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bVanquisher%27s%5d%2b%5bBanner%5d) and [The Immortal Sun](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bThe%20Immortal%20Sun%5d) on the battlefield, and a 1/1 creature enters the battlefield under my control, assuming the creature matches the creature type I declared with [Vanquisher's Banner](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bVanquisher%27s%5d%2b%5bBanner%5d), would I be able to pay 2 mana and use [Mentor of the Meek](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bMentor%20of%20the%20Meek%5d) to draw an additional card?

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Possible duplicate of [Bludgeon Brawl & Puresteel Paladin](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/4773/bludgeon-brawl-puresteel-paladin), question appears different, but the answers, answer this question as well.  
> **username_2**: I'd rather keep it open as this is a more legible question for the general case.  
> **username_3**: Where is the 2 mana coming from?  
> **username_4**: @username_3 Would it affect the answer? I think we can assume that the player has enough mana, and that there are no spending restrictions.  
> **username_5**: @username_1 no it's a different enough case that I would call it different.  
> **username_5**: @username_3 Does it matter? The question is more "Does the ability trigger" not "How do I pay for it" and the answer as given very well by username_6, is no.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_6 on 2018-03-09. Score: 8 | Accepted answer

No.

Both abilities of [Vanquisher's Banner](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bVanquisher%27s%5d%2b%5bBanner%5d) and The [Immortal Sun](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bImmortal%20Sun%5d) that gives creatures you control +1/+1 are static abilities.

> 611.3. A continuous effect may be generated by the static ability of an object.
>
> 611.3a A continuous effect generated by a static ability isn’t “locked in”; it applies at any given moment to whatever its text indicates.
>
> 611.3b The effect applies at all times that the permanent generating it is on the battlefield or the object generating it is in the
> appropriate zone.
> *Example: A permanent with the static ability “All
> white creatures get +1/+1” generates an effect that continuously gives
> +1/+1 to each white creature on the battlefield. If a creature becomes white, it gets this bonus; a creature that stops being white loses it.*

But what comes first when the 1/1 creature enters the battlefield zone. The trigger from [Mentor of the Meek](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bMentor%20of%20the%20Meek%5d) or the static abilities?

> 611.3c Continuous effects that modify characteristics of permanents do so simultaneously with the permanent entering the battlefield. They
> don’t wait until the permanent is on the battlefield and then change
> it. Because such effects apply as the permanent enters the
> battlefield, **they are applied before determining whether the permanent
> will cause an ability to trigger when it enters the battlefield.**
> *Example: A permanent with the static ability “All white creatures get
> +1/+1” is on the battlefield. A creature spell that would normally create a 1/1 white creature instead creates a 2/2 white creature. The
> creature doesn’t enter the battlefield as 1/1 and then change to 2/2.*

The 1/1 creature enters the battlefield as a 3/3, given that it's the type needed for [Vanquisher's Banner](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bVanquisher%27s%5d%2b%5bBanner%5d). So [Mentor of the Meek](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bMentor%20of%20the%20Meek%5d) won't trigger.


---

