<p>On Page 7 of the rule book, it says:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Each Group exchanged counts as an action
  for the player whose turn it is, whichever way the Group
  moves. So if you trade a Group for a Group on your turn,
  that counts as two actions – one to move the first Group, one
  to move the second one!</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Then, on Page 8, it says:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>When a Group is transferred to another player, its puppets (if any)
  must go with it, along with all treasuries involved. The player
  receiving the Group must immediately fit it, and its puppets, into his
  power structure...</p>
</blockquote>

<p>(I know you already pointed that out, I just wanted to show the exact rules quotes.)</p>

<p>That would lead me to believe that you can trade off one of your own Groups (and any of it's puppets) for another Group (and any of it's puppets). Doing so will cost your both of your actions for the turn, one to 'release' the old Group and another to 'welcome' the new Group in. The puppets don't have a say in where they are going, so so they don't count as additional 'Groups' in this case.</p>

<p>So you are fine to trade away a parent Group with three puppets for another group, just as long as you get a good enough deal!</p>

<p>(Note, that if a player can't fit a traded group and all it's puppets into their Power Structure, some of the puppets may have to be released to the uncontrolled area.)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-12T22:24:44.667Z
In addition, that means that if you had a structure A>B>C, you could transfer B>C to your opponent, then take back the C to give you A>C, leaving your opponent with B.
ConMan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-13T06:39:52.867Z
Wouldn't the opponent be able to not give you C back as it's technically a trade 'in future' (he can't trade you C now because he doesn't have it). So that would be two trades: B>C to him for X and then C back to me for X. Where after making the first trade he might not agree to the second.
Artur Gadomski
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-13T19:29:29.393Z
@ArturGadomski I'm not entirely sure that ConMan's example would work within the rules. The active player would take one action to trade/give B>C to an opponent. However, because it's not the opponent's turn, they can't "give" C back, so A would have to arrange another trade (say for a Plot card) to get C back. I'd say it's you'd probably have to get the table to agree if they'd allow "I trade you B>C but you have to trade me back C" as a valid trade.
Discord
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-13T19:31:25.940Z
@ArturGadomski The strange thing about the rules is that if it's NOT your turn, you don't need actions to receive or swap groups, but you can't give a group away...
Discord
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-12T14:05:26.573Z
2014-02-12T14:05:26.573Z
Discord
<p>Rules specify that when trading each group exchanged counts as an action to the player whose turn it is. And then later goes on to say that puppets of a group are transferred along with it. Is the player then limited to exchanging 1 group for another group or two groups for cash/special cards? Or can he exchange a parent group with 3 puppets for another group?</p>

<illuminati>
Can a player trade 3 groups in one turn?
Artur Gadomski
# Can a player trade 3 groups in one turn?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-02-12)

Rules specify that when trading each group exchanged counts as an action to the player whose turn it is. And then later goes on to say that puppets of a group are transferred along with it. Is the player then limited to exchanging 1 group for another group or two groups for cash/special cards? Or can he exchange a parent group with 3 puppets for another group?

**Tags:** illuminati


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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2014-02-12. Score: 2 | Accepted answer

On Page 7 of the rule book, it says:

> Each Group exchanged counts as an action
> for the player whose turn it is, whichever way the Group
> moves. So if you trade a Group for a Group on your turn,
> that counts as two actions – one to move the first Group, one
> to move the second one!

Then, on Page 8, it says:

> When a Group is transferred to another player, its puppets (if any)
> must go with it, along with all treasuries involved. The player
> receiving the Group must immediately fit it, and its puppets, into his
> power structure...

(I know you already pointed that out, I just wanted to show the exact rules quotes.)

That would lead me to believe that you can trade off one of your own Groups (and any of it's puppets) for another Group (and any of it's puppets). Doing so will cost your both of your actions for the turn, one to 'release' the old Group and another to 'welcome' the new Group in. The puppets don't have a say in where they are going, so so they don't count as additional 'Groups' in this case.

So you are fine to trade away a parent Group with three puppets for another group, just as long as you get a good enough deal!

(Note, that if a player can't fit a traded group and all it's puppets into their Power Structure, some of the puppets may have to be released to the uncontrolled area.)

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: In addition, that means that if you had a structure A>B>C, you could transfer B>C to your opponent, then take back the C to give you A>C, leaving your opponent with B.  
> **username_0**: Wouldn't the opponent be able to not give you C back as it's technically a trade 'in future' (he can't trade you C now because he doesn't have it). So that would be two trades: B>C to him for X and then C back to me for X. Where after making the first trade he might not agree to the second.  
> **username_1**: @username_0 I'm not entirely sure that username_2's example would work within the rules. The active player would take one action to trade/give B>C to an opponent. However, because it's not the opponent's turn, they can't "give" C back, so A would have to arrange another trade (say for a Plot card) to get C back. I'd say it's you'd probably have to get the table to agree if they'd allow "I trade you B>C but you have to trade me back C" as a valid trade.  
> **username_1**: @username_0 The strange thing about the rules is that if it's NOT your turn, you don't need actions to receive or swap groups, but you can't give a group away...  

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