<p>Copies of spells are not cast, so they will not trigger Dovescape.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>706.10. To copy a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; <strong>a copy of a spell isn’t cast</strong> and a copy of an activated ability isn’t activated.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The copy does still count as a spell, but it is not ever cast. This applies to all of your examples; none of them would cause Dovescape to trigger.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-04T14:53:34.503Z
Beat me by 11 seconds!
DenisS
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-06T12:29:43.810Z
I appreciate the specific ruling for copies with emphasis
Max Young
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-04T14:53:04.770Z
2020-03-04T14:53:04.770Z
GendoIkari
<p>The copy of the spell from the ETB effect of <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDualcaster%20Mage%5d">Dualcaster Mage</a> will not be countered by <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDovescape%5d">Dovescape</a>.  You are correct in saying that copies of spells are not cast, and thus do not trigger <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDovescape%5d">Dovescape</a>.  This is also correct in the case of using <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bRal%2c%20Storm%20Conduit%5d">Ral, Storm Conduit</a>'s -2 ability.</p>

<p><a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bSpark%20Double%5d">Spark Double</a> and <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bClever%20Impersonator%5d">Clever Impersonator</a> will work as well.  These cards are creature spells on the stack and would not trigger <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDovescape%5d">Dovescape</a>.  </p>

<p>From the rulings on Clever Impersonator</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>You choose which nonland permanent Clever Impersonator will copy, if any, as it enters the battlefield. This doesn’t target that nonland permanent.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Once it enters the battlefield copying a Planeswalker, it's already been cast and resolved.  It's too late to counter it.</p>

<p>To see, step by step, how it would work, here's how the interaction would play out.</p>

<ol>
<li>Player A casts Clever Impersonator.</li>
<li>Dovescape does not see a non-creature spell cast, and thus doesn't trigger.</li>
<li>Both players pass, and Clever Impersonator resolves.</li>
<li>At this time, Player A choses the Planeswalker to have Clever Impersonator copy, and it enters the battlefield as a Planeswalker.  Dovescape doesn't trigger because a spell wasn't cast.</li>
</ol>

<hr>

<p>With regards to other ways to get around Dovescape, there aren't a whole lot of options.  </p>

<ul>
<li>There are ways to make noncreature spells be uncounterable.  

<ul>
<li><a href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&amp;text=%20[%22This%20spell%20can%27t%20be%20countered.%22]&amp;type=%20![%22Creature%22]" rel="nofollow noreferrer">These cards</a> would get around Dovescape, as they all say "This spell can't be countered."</li>
<li><a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bVeil%20of%20Summer%5d">Veil of Summer</a> and <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDetermined%5d">Determined</a> can prevent spells from being countered for the rest of the turn if you can get them through Dovescape (see below).  Similarly <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bOvermaster%5d">Overmaster</a> prevents the next spell from being countered, if you can get it through Dovescape.</li>
<li><a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bTaigam%2c%20Ojutai%20Master%5d">Taigam, Ojutai Master</a> is a creature that prevents instants and sorceries from being countered (and dragons, but that doesn't matter for Dovescape)</li>
<li><a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bThryx%2c%20the%20Sudden%20Storm%5d">Thryx, the Sudden Storm</a> is a creature that prevents spells with converted mana cost 5 or more from being countered</li>
<li><a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bBoseiju%2c%20Who%20Shelters%20All%5d">Boseiju, Who Shelters All</a> is a land that makes instants and sorceries uncounterable with it's mana ability</li>
<li><a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDestiny%20Spinner%5d">Destiny Spinner</a> is a creature that makes Enchantment spells uncounterable</li>
</ul></li>
<li>Dovescape's ability is a triggered ability.  <a href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&amp;text=%20[%22Counter%20target%22]%20[%22triggered%20abilit%22]" rel="nofollow noreferrer">There are cards that exist</a> that allow you to counter triggered abilities, but with the exception of one in particular, are all non-creature spells that would also get countered by Dovescape. <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bNimble%20Obstructionist%5d">Nimble Obstructionist</a> is the one exception, as cycling a card is not casting a spell, and it's triggered ability from cycling can counter Dovescape's effect</li>
<li>The keyword ability Storm creates copies of itself for each time a spell had been previously cast.  The Dovescape ability will counter the original spell, but not any of the copies.</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-04T14:53:16.530Z
2020-03-06T14:05:37.203Z
2020-03-06T14:05:37.203Z
DenisS
<p>I’ve noticed <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDovescape%5d">Dovescape</a> uses the specific word “cast” to trigger its ability, and I am curious about what effects circumvent its wording.  </p>

<p>Will the following effects skirt through Dovescape?  </p>

<ul>
<li><a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDualcaster%20Mage%5d">Dualcaster Mage</a> copying a not yet countered spell on the stack</li>
<li><a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bRal%2c%20Storm%20Conduit%5d">Ral, Storm Conduit</a> ’s [-2] ability which would copy the next spell you attempt to cast, the Copy being unaffected since it was not “cast”</li>
<li>Also related <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bSpark%20Double%5d">Spark Double</a> (or <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bClever%20Impersonator%5d">Clever Impersonator</a>) cloning an already in play Planewalker (Or any nonland/noncreature)</li>
<li>Feel free to include additional effects which would improve this question.  </li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-04T14:44:15.123Z
How would spark double/clever impersonator copying an in play permanent circumvent dovescape? It would still be countered upon cast.... is there something I'm missing here?
CollinB
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-04T14:48:54.380Z
@CollinB I'm looking for clarification, the cards in question are creature spells in hand, and non-creatures on the battlefield. Both use wording along the lines of "May enter as." So how does that work in conjunction with Dovescape?
L.P.
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-04T15:14:52.077Z
@CollinB see the answer I posted.  Dovescape is checking for non-creature spells and SD/CI are creature spells on the stack.
DenisS
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-04T15:17:48.267Z
@DenisS right, duh, forgot dovescape was noncreature. I was asking under the assumption that it countered creatures as well
CollinB
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-04T15:53:39.987Z
Also of note is that Dovescape doesn't check to see if the spell was actually countered.  So Counterflux could counter a creature, and you would still get three doves.
CALEB F
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-05T20:37:24.077Z
@L.P. added a section for a few different ways to circumvent Dovescape.  It's a difficult card to get around without creature-based enchantment removal but it can be done.
DenisS
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-06T19:07:16.153Z
There are cards like Absolver Thrull that can get rid of it. Arbiter of the Ideal lets you put artifacts on the battlefield. If you can splice a spell onto a creature spell, you'll get its effects. Boseiju, Who Shelters All makes your instants and sorceries uncounterable.
Acccumulation
<magic-the-gathering>
Avoiding Dovescape's Effect
L.P.
# Avoiding Dovescape's Effect

(Asked by: username_0 on 2020-03-04)

I’ve noticed [Dovescape](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDovescape%5d) uses the specific word “cast” to trigger its ability, and I am curious about what effects circumvent its wording.

Will the following effects skirt through Dovescape?

* [Dualcaster Mage](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDualcaster%20Mage%5d) copying a not yet countered spell on the stack
* [Ral, Storm Conduit](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bRal%2c%20Storm%20Conduit%5d) ’s [-2] ability which would copy the next spell you attempt to cast, the Copy being unaffected since it was not “cast”
* Also related [Spark Double](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bSpark%20Double%5d) (or [Clever Impersonator](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bClever%20Impersonator%5d)) cloning an already in play Planewalker (Or any nonland/noncreature)
* Feel free to include additional effects which would improve this question.

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: How would spark double/clever impersonator copying an in play permanent circumvent dovescape? It would still be countered upon cast.... is there something I'm missing here?  
> **username_0**: @username_1 I'm looking for clarification, the cards in question are creature spells in hand, and non-creatures on the battlefield. Both use wording along the lines of "May enter as." So how does that work in conjunction with Dovescape?  
> **username_2**: @username_1 see the answer I posted.  Dovescape is checking for non-creature spells and SD/CI are creature spells on the stack.  
> **username_1**: @username_2 right, duh, forgot dovescape was noncreature. I was asking under the assumption that it countered creatures as well  
> **username_3**: Also of note is that Dovescape doesn't check to see if the spell was actually countered.  So Counterflux could counter a creature, and you would still get three doves.  
> **username_2**: @L.P. added a section for a few different ways to circumvent Dovescape.  It's a difficult card to get around without creature-based enchantment removal but it can be done.  
> **username_4**: There are cards like Absolver Thrull that can get rid of it. Arbiter of the Ideal lets you put artifacts on the battlefield. If you can splice a spell onto a creature spell, you'll get its effects. Boseiju, Who Shelters All makes your instants and sorceries uncounterable.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2020-03-04. Score: 9 | Accepted answer

The copy of the spell from the ETB effect of [Dualcaster Mage](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDualcaster%20Mage%5d) will not be countered by [Dovescape](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDovescape%5d). You are correct in saying that copies of spells are not cast, and thus do not trigger [Dovescape](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDovescape%5d). This is also correct in the case of using [Ral, Storm Conduit](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bRal%2c%20Storm%20Conduit%5d)'s -2 ability.

[Spark Double](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bSpark%20Double%5d) and [Clever Impersonator](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bClever%20Impersonator%5d) will work as well. These cards are creature spells on the stack and would not trigger [Dovescape](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDovescape%5d).

From the rulings on Clever Impersonator

> You choose which nonland permanent Clever Impersonator will copy, if any, as it enters the battlefield. This doesn’t target that nonland permanent.

Once it enters the battlefield copying a Planeswalker, it's already been cast and resolved. It's too late to counter it.

To see, step by step, how it would work, here's how the interaction would play out.

1. Player A casts Clever Impersonator.
2. Dovescape does not see a non-creature spell cast, and thus doesn't trigger.
3. Both players pass, and Clever Impersonator resolves.
4. At this time, Player A choses the Planeswalker to have Clever Impersonator copy, and it enters the battlefield as a Planeswalker. Dovescape doesn't trigger because a spell wasn't cast.

---

With regards to other ways to get around Dovescape, there aren't a whole lot of options.

* There are ways to make noncreature spells be uncounterable.
  + [These cards](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&text=%20[%22This%20spell%20can%27t%20be%20countered.%22]&type=%20![%22Creature%22]) would get around Dovescape, as they all say "This spell can't be countered."
  + [Veil of Summer](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bVeil%20of%20Summer%5d) and [Determined](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDetermined%5d) can prevent spells from being countered for the rest of the turn if you can get them through Dovescape (see below). Similarly [Overmaster](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bOvermaster%5d) prevents the next spell from being countered, if you can get it through Dovescape.
  + [Taigam, Ojutai Master](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bTaigam%2c%20Ojutai%20Master%5d) is a creature that prevents instants and sorceries from being countered (and dragons, but that doesn't matter for Dovescape)
  + [Thryx, the Sudden Storm](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bThryx%2c%20the%20Sudden%20Storm%5d) is a creature that prevents spells with converted mana cost 5 or more from being countered
  + [Boseiju, Who Shelters All](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bBoseiju%2c%20Who%20Shelters%20All%5d) is a land that makes instants and sorceries uncounterable with it's mana ability
  + [Destiny Spinner](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bDestiny%20Spinner%5d) is a creature that makes Enchantment spells uncounterable
* Dovescape's ability is a triggered ability. [There are cards that exist](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&text=%20[%22Counter%20target%22]%20[%22triggered%20abilit%22]) that allow you to counter triggered abilities, but with the exception of one in particular, are all non-creature spells that would also get countered by Dovescape. [Nimble Obstructionist](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bNimble%20Obstructionist%5d) is the one exception, as cycling a card is not casting a spell, and it's triggered ability from cycling can counter Dovescape's effect
* The keyword ability Storm creates copies of itself for each time a spell had been previously cast. The Dovescape ability will counter the original spell, but not any of the copies.


---

### Answer by username_5 on 2020-03-04. Score: 7

Copies of spells are not cast, so they will not trigger Dovescape.

> 706.10. To copy a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; **a copy of a spell isn’t cast** and a copy of an activated ability isn’t activated.

The copy does still count as a spell, but it is not ever cast. This applies to all of your examples; none of them would cause Dovescape to trigger.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: Beat me by 11 seconds!  
> **username_6**: I appreciate the specific ruling for copies with emphasis  

---

