Answers.Body: <p>So, first, know that I'm going to close this question.  Please don't be offended!  But it's off-topic for this site, which is for CS teachers to ask and answer about cs education.</p>
  <p>But I'm going to give an answer first anyway.  It sounds like you're despairing, and possibly depressed, and upset by the speed at which you are picking up various frameworks.</p>
  <p>Take a breath - you will be okay!  If you want to continue in this field, understand that all of our educations are uneven, and frameworks are <em>hard</em>.  Frameworks are inherently <em>abstractions that provide architecture</em>, so it takes a lot of absorption before you can make concrete things with them with any confidence.</p>
  <p>There's an expression, &quot;watch your pennies, and your dollars will watch themselves&quot; that applies here.  Calmly learn little bits each day, and eventually the framework will come into view.  Because they're hard, but they aren't infinite.</p>
  <p>I know that it can be hard to receive this while you're in the middle of such struggles, but it really will get better.  Keep going a bit at a time.  Once you've mastered a few frameworks, you will find that it's a little easier to pick up new ones.  Over time, you will begin to also pick up architecture itself, which will help you speed up the rate at which you pick up new technologies.</p>
  <p>So, that's the advice: one step at a time, keep practicing, keep learning, keep going.  It <em>will</em> eventually click into place.  And in the meantime, all you can do is keep trying to learn and grow.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-01-20T16:48:03.830Z
Answers.Text: I'll add that CS is a lot more than programming. Learning a lot of languages may be a distraction.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Buffy
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-01-21T02:48:04.490Z
Answers.Text: thank you. I'm grateful for your reply.
Answers.UserDisplayName: 4c2divbetween
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-01-27T11:52:13.253Z
Answers.Text: @4c2divbetween This answer is good. You mentioned JavaScript and React. I haven't used those much, but read the history of how they have evolved. It's a mess! Roundabout way to run away from the monsters only to run smack in to them again! Stupid. We were better off with plain old C. The constructs you mentioned were a way to reintroduce 'state' after trying for 2 decades to deny what a computer program IS. Try learning something more direct and procedural for a while. In 9th grade I wrote Basic programs to draw shapes on the screen. Get the fundamentals down and *then* try to hide from them.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Scott Rowe
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-01-20T13:18:11.860Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2023-01-20T13:18:11.860Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Ben I.
Body: <p>I'm in the verge of giving up programming and wondering what could I do before I give up to make sure I did what everyone did.</p>
  <p>I've a bachelors degree in computer science. I didn't do it as well as I'd have liked to do, but that degree has gave me familiarity with most terms used in basic programming.</p>
  <p>I spent last 2.5 months working on web development(I'm learning MERN). I learnt html,css,bootstrap, javascript and react till date(In bootcamp), but I failed to learn React. Even javascript, i'm no expert at. Even css, I learnt the basics but I'm not an expert when it comes to building half decent sites. Same for bootstrap. I can carve a site using html,css,bootstrap but it won't look good. I was completely  impossible to learn when it came to react. Whenever I saw usage of useEffect and useState hooks and we start making changes in 10 different files for it, it confused me and I understood nothing.</p>
  <p>I had access to world's best resources to learn books, tutorials, blogs, youtube, udemy etc. I had access to forums like this to get help and support but still this was tough for me.</p>
  <p>I feel unlucky, sad and hopeless atm. Friends who were weaker than me in conventional college studies and academia have done jobs and internships but I'm failing to even learn something properly. I'm not jealous of them but just feel trash about myself.</p>
  <p>People say do projects to learn but I really don't know how that works. For eg: <a href="https://codepen.io/pelko/pen/MWBpNmL" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://codepen.io/pelko/pen/MWBpNmL</a> This project. I make stupid stuffs like these and can't produce a good output that is playable. It's too hard for me.
  These are some of my projects.
  <a href="https://htmlcssbasicsite999.netlify.app/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://htmlcssbasicsite999.netlify.app/</a></p>
  <p><a href="https://counterapp999.netlify.app/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://counterapp999.netlify.app/</a></p>
  <p><a href="https://dicegame999.netlify.app/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://dicegame999.netlify.app/</a></p>
  <p><a href="https://digitalclock999.netlify.app/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://digitalclock999.netlify.app/</a></p>
  <p><a href="https://portfoliosite999.netlify.app/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://portfoliosite999.netlify.app/</a></p>
  <p>I did all these projects without looking any tutorials.</p>
  <p>I keep forgetting how I built something time and again. I nowadays try my best to add documentation though.</p>
  <p>I'm 70% sure to give up programming but still I&quot;d like to make sure I follow advices from fellow forum users about it who've spent their life around programming.</p>
  <p>In 3 months, I am seeing no progress, except few days like:</p>
  <ol>
  <li><p>When I carved a site on my own using html,css without looking tutorials.</p>
  </li>
  <li><p>When I carved a site on my own using bootstrap without looking tutorials.</p>
  </li>
  </ol>
  <p>My problems:</p>
  <ol>
  <li><p>I've not break through'ed in programming. If I can make anything with javascript that's over 500 lines of code, I'd consider that a breakthrough. I'm aware LOC aren't a good metric but please try to understand what I'm trying to say. A big application using programming.</p>
  </li>
  <li><p>Even in css, I failed to make presentable sites. The coding bootcamp I feel is going too fast as well. Same for bootstrap, I made sites but I failed ot create beautiful sites. People recommend me frontendmentor.io but IDK what to do there? It looks sketchy to me. If there is something that can teach me css, I'd be so grateful.</p>
  </li>
  <li><p>After watching tutorials, I can't repeat what they've done in tutorial without watching the tutorial of project even though I understand each and every step they do in project.</p>
  </li>
  <li><p>I still am not fluent in ES6. I can't think in ES6. Arrow functions, map, reduce etc. I Understand them, but using them is different ballgame.</p>
  </li>
  </ol>
  <p>If you understand my situation, please guide me. I don't need roadmaps, any more tutorials but plain old guidance and advice on what to do by people who went through this situation</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-01-27T11:43:10.870Z
Comments.Text: This is still a worthwhile topic on this site even if it had to be closed. Learning to program is very hard. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't done something challenging. I'm 57 and first sat down at a teletype in 8th grade. I work as a programmer. Just yesterday I spent an entire workday to get a few lines of PowerShell to work - I had no tools and hadn't worked with it before. Really, programming is completely about you and your intimate relationship with... you. It's like performing surgery on yourself *every day*. You will get there after a while. The question is: can you walk away now?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Scott Rowe
Tags: <self-learning>
Title: What should I do Before I give up programming?
ThreadText: # What should I do Before I give up programming?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2023-01-20)
  
  I'm in the verge of giving up programming and wondering what could I do before I give up to make sure I did what everyone did.
  
  I've a bachelors degree in computer science. I didn't do it as well as I'd have liked to do, but that degree has gave me familiarity with most terms used in basic programming.
  
  I spent last 2.5 months working on web development(I'm learning MERN). I learnt html,css,bootstrap, javascript and react till date(In bootcamp), but I failed to learn React. Even javascript, i'm no expert at. Even css, I learnt the basics but I'm not an expert when it comes to building half decent sites. Same for bootstrap. I can carve a site using html,css,bootstrap but it won't look good. I was completely impossible to learn when it came to react. Whenever I saw usage of useEffect and useState hooks and we start making changes in 10 different files for it, it confused me and I understood nothing.
  
  I had access to world's best resources to learn books, tutorials, blogs, youtube, udemy etc. I had access to forums like this to get help and support but still this was tough for me.
  
  I feel unlucky, sad and hopeless atm. Friends who were weaker than me in conventional college studies and academia have done jobs and internships but I'm failing to even learn something properly. I'm not jealous of them but just feel trash about myself.
  
  People say do projects to learn but I really don't know how that works. For eg: <https://codepen.io/pelko/pen/MWBpNmL> This project. I make stupid stuffs like these and can't produce a good output that is playable. It's too hard for me.
  These are some of my projects.
  <https://htmlcssbasicsite999.netlify.app/>
  
  <https://counterapp999.netlify.app/>
  
  <https://dicegame999.netlify.app/>
  
  <https://digitalclock999.netlify.app/>
  
  <https://portfoliosite999.netlify.app/>
  
  I did all these projects without looking any tutorials.
  
  I keep forgetting how I built something time and again. I nowadays try my best to add documentation though.
  
  I'm 70% sure to give up programming but still I"d like to make sure I follow advices from fellow forum users about it who've spent their life around programming.
  
  In 3 months, I am seeing no progress, except few days like:
  
  1. When I carved a site on my own using html,css without looking tutorials.
  2. When I carved a site on my own using bootstrap without looking tutorials.
  
  My problems:
  
  1. I've not break through'ed in programming. If I can make anything with javascript that's over 500 lines of code, I'd consider that a breakthrough. I'm aware LOC aren't a good metric but please try to understand what I'm trying to say. A big application using programming.
  2. Even in css, I failed to make presentable sites. The coding bootcamp I feel is going too fast as well. Same for bootstrap, I made sites but I failed ot create beautiful sites. People recommend me frontendmentor.io but IDK what to do there? It looks sketchy to me. If there is something that can teach me css, I'd be so grateful.
  3. After watching tutorials, I can't repeat what they've done in tutorial without watching the tutorial of project even though I understand each and every step they do in project.
  4. I still am not fluent in ES6. I can't think in ES6. Arrow functions, map, reduce etc. I Understand them, but using them is different ballgame.
  
  If you understand my situation, please guide me. I don't need roadmaps, any more tutorials but plain old guidance and advice on what to do by people who went through this situation
  
  **Tags:** self-learning
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: This is still a worthwhile topic on this site even if it had to be closed. Learning to program is very hard. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't done something challenging. I'm 57 and first sat down at a teletype in 8th grade. I work as a programmer. Just yesterday I spent an entire workday to get a few lines of PowerShell to work - I had no tools and hadn't worked with it before. Really, programming is completely about you and your intimate relationship with... you. It's like performing surgery on yourself *every day*. You will get there after a while. The question is: can you walk away now?  
  
  ---
  
  ## 1 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2023-01-20. Score: 6 | Accepted answer
  
  So, first, know that I'm going to close this question. Please don't be offended! But it's off-topic for this site, which is for CS teachers to ask and answer about cs education.
  
  But I'm going to give an answer first anyway. It sounds like you're despairing, and possibly depressed, and upset by the speed at which you are picking up various frameworks.
  
  Take a breath - you will be okay! If you want to continue in this field, understand that all of our educations are uneven, and frameworks are *hard*. Frameworks are inherently *abstractions that provide architecture*, so it takes a lot of absorption before you can make concrete things with them with any confidence.
  
  There's an expression, "watch your pennies, and your dollars will watch themselves" that applies here. Calmly learn little bits each day, and eventually the framework will come into view. Because they're hard, but they aren't infinite.
  
  I know that it can be hard to receive this while you're in the middle of such struggles, but it really will get better. Keep going a bit at a time. Once you've mastered a few frameworks, you will find that it's a little easier to pick up new ones. Over time, you will begin to also pick up architecture itself, which will help you speed up the rate at which you pick up new technologies.
  
  So, that's the advice: one step at a time, keep practicing, keep learning, keep going. It *will* eventually click into place. And in the meantime, all you can do is keep trying to learn and grow.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_3**: I'll add that CS is a lot more than programming. Learning a lot of languages may be a distraction.  
  > **username_0**: thank you. I'm grateful for your reply.  
  > **username_1**: @username_0 This answer is good. You mentioned JavaScript and React. I haven't used those much, but read the history of how they have evolved. It's a mess! Roundabout way to run away from the monsters only to run smack in to them again! Stupid. We were better off with plain old C. The constructs you mentioned were a way to reintroduce 'state' after trying for 2 decades to deny what a computer program IS. Try learning something more direct and procedural for a while. In 9th grade I wrote Basic programs to draw shapes on the screen. Get the fundamentals down and *then* try to hide from them.  
  
  ---
  
  