Answers.Body: <p>If you would like to get an official statement on this, your best bet is to contact LEGO's customer service. Here are some pointers you might consider when communicating with them:</p>
  <p>It seems like your question is about some of the electronic components. So, let's narrow down your question to those. The battery in the #42009 LEGO Mobile Crane has two studs on top with the LEGO logo on them. In addition, right above the studs their is a &quot;2006 The LEGO Group&quot; moulded into the lighter colored plastic. And there are also larger LEGO logos moulded into the sides of the unit. So, five LEGO logos in total.</p>
  <p>This battery box has no alternates. It only came in this one version as evidenced by the BrickLink database, which is the most comprehensive database of all LEGO parts ever made: <a href="https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=59510c01&amp;idColor=86#T=C&amp;C=86" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Electric 9V Battery Box 4 x 11 x 7 PF</a></p>
  <p>I would also add to this that smooth LEGO studs always have the LEGO logo moulded into them, and this has always been the case since the earliest days of the company. There are hollow studs (like in some electronic pieces, LEGO Technic pieces, LEGO windows, hollow 1x1 round studs, etc.), however in such cases the LEGO logo will appear on some other place on the piece. The very few exceptions to this rule are when pieces are so tiny that it was simply not possible/practical to print a LEGO logo on them (i.e. hollow 1x1 round stud, some very small minifigure accessories, etc.)</p>
  <p>Rather than being too generic like you did in your question above, when contacting LEGO's customer service, I would suggest to focus on two points. This can result in a quicker response and faster action.</p>
  <ol>
  <li><p>Ask them whether the specific electronic parts you are concerned
  about (list exact set and part numbers) were ever produced without a LEGO logo (the answer will be no,
  but for your legal case it's best to have this in writing directly
  from LEGO).</p>
  </li>
  <li><p>Alert LEGO that someone is selling fake parts and claiming that
  they are genuine. LEGO's legal department will be very interested in
  this, which can help your personal case. It's even possible that
  this seller has been on their radar already, and the information you
  provide will be helpful to their case.</p>
  </li>
  </ol>
  <p>There are lots of imitation LEGO out there, but the companies making them do not claim that their products are genuine LEGO. They sell under their own brand names for cheaper prices than LEGO can provide. LEGO's legal department is fighting these companies already. Someone selling fake LEGO and claiming that it's genuine is a whole other level of criminal.</p>
  <p>Please keep in mind that if this is someone like a small eBay seller, they may have been duped themselves and they really believed that the parts they acquired are genuine LEGO. So keep your communication professional and you may be satisfied with just a refund. If, however, the seller is a larger online store specializing in fake LEGO parts and selling them as genuine, definitely let LEGO's legal department know and you may pursue your own legal case as well.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-10-08T12:37:26.617Z
Answers.Text: I would also add, that not all studs have LEGO text on them. Some studs may be used as plastic injection point (PIP) which may not have the logo or may have just "l" and "o". Some genuine parts may not have logo at all! I've seen some older parts (not bricks) with just a (c) copyright logo on them.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Alex
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-10-08T15:56:25.893Z
Answers.Text: @Alex, yes while this is true with some older parts, test bricks, and some unusual parts, I chose to only briefly mention those in my response, because ultimately OP's question was about modern parts from a specific set.
Answers.UserDisplayName: TheBrickBlogger
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-20T21:00:58.340Z
Answers.Text: Hello. Here's the OP. First of all thanks for this awesome answer. You talk about so many aspects that I'm more than satisfied. Second: the actual solution to my problem was to ask the official LEGO support and use their answer as evidence. I will mark your answer as correct because you mention it in the first sentence.
Answers.UserDisplayName: rychu
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-20T21:01:07.690Z
Answers.Text: Hello, Here's the OP again. The last but not least: my case is finally over and I got my money back. I've sent all the documents to the police (auction description, pictures, e-mails and the aforementioned answer from LEGO support) and they contacted the seller, then he finally contacted me and offered to give back the money. As you mentioned before, it probably was the case that he believed these were original LEGO bricks.
Answers.UserDisplayName: rychu
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-21T22:15:04.073Z
Answers.Text: I'm glad the issue was resolved for you. It's disturbing that someone was selling these parts as genuine. Hopefully, the seller learned their lesson as well.
Answers.UserDisplayName: TheBrickBlogger
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-10-07T18:47:10.203Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2023-03-09T08:53:33.980Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2023-03-09T08:53:33.980Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: TheBrickBlogger
Body: <p>Yes, this question has already been asked <a href="https://bricks.stackexchange.com/questions/9567/are-there-lego-plates-without-the-word-lego-on-the-studs/">here</a>. This time, however, I was wondering if anyone can point to official LEGO web page on which this fact is confirmed. I've already read "Fair Play" document and "Fair Play Brochure" but all what they say is that "the LEGO logo is a trade mark and cannot be used w/o permission" meaning that if I have a brick with LEGO logo on it then I can be 99,99% sure that this is a genuine LEGO brick. What I need, however, is the "opposite" i.e. a sentence claiming that "a stud on a genuine LEGO brick has always had the LEGO logo since the year 19xx" or even more: "a stud on a genuine LEGO brick has never had this round cavity on the top" (cavities I mention are present e.g. on studs <a href="https://lepinland.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/457368-eymizg.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer">here</a>).</p>
  
  <p>I've already asked the same question via the contact form on the official LEGO support page but received no answer yet.</p>
  
  <p>Context: I'm currently having a dispute whether a set of bricks that some guy sold me were genuine LEGO bricks. He claims that they were, I know that they were not. I will, however, have to provide evidence to the police. Information on lego.com page or answer from lego.com would do in my opinion. High resolution images of the 42009 set (battery part) on official LEGO page would also be good but <del>this set is no longer present on lego.com</del> this set does not have the close up of the part I need. High resolution images of 8293 (Power Functions Motor Set) are there but are they a proof I don't know yet (one can always say that these parts have LOGO lego now but they didn't in 2013). There is a movie with 42009 on lego.com but it is rendered and does not present real bricks and not sure if can be used.</p>
  
  <p><strong>EDIT</strong>: yes, all the pieces of the brick set I received (the supposed 42009 set) are forged. I can tell this because the bricks I received differ in many aspects from bricks from original LEGO sets I've assembled so far (more than a dozen sets, mostly > 1000 bricks): some of them connect poorly, some of them connect so hard I struggled a lot to disconnect; the surface of liftarms is not as straight as LEGO liftarms; the liftarms have this extra filling around holes (google "lepin liftarm" and choose "large images" in "adv search" to see what I mean); some pieces are not cut properly e.g. the bushes have thin pieces of plastic connected to the hole on the side; and the main one: there is no LEGO logo on any of the parts: not only the studs but also the battery box and motor. However from legal point of view I can't just say that I am sure that these are not LEGO bricks. Moreover I cannot even prove that the bricks I present are indeed the bricks that the other guy sent me. So I took a closer look at the pictures from the auction (the pictures the seller made himself = the pictures of actual brick set he sent me) and found pieces with studs with no LEGO logo (Black Plate 2x3 (3021) , Motor 9V Power Functions L (99499c01) ). I was extremely lucky that this seller made pictures with such high resolution. And yes, I contacted the LEGO support and sent them exacly the same pictures as below and they confirm that these are NOT original LEGO bricks. I will post their full answer and some more content soon.</p>
  
  <p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/pwpG9.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/pwpG9.png" alt="end of motor cable"></a></p>
  
  <p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/ausco.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/ausco.png" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2019-10-08T12:02:53.890Z
Comments.Text: Two questions: (1) From set 42009, do you suspect ALL of the pieces to be forged?  (2) Please follow this link  https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=42009-1 to set 42009's part inventory and tell us which specific part is logo-less. I need to see a picture of the piece in question.  ,
Comments.UserDisplayName: Rin Rio-Oki
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2019-10-08T12:33:19.630Z
Comments.Text: Yes, sharing pictutes of questionable parts would greatly help to assist with your question.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Alex
Tags: <part-identification>
Title: Are there LEGO plates without the word “LEGO” on the studs?
UserDisplayName: rychu
ThreadText: # Are there LEGO plates without the word “LEGO” on the studs?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2019-10-05)
  
  Yes, this question has already been asked [here](https://bricks.stackexchange.com/questions/9567/are-there-lego-plates-without-the-word-lego-on-the-studs/). This time, however, I was wondering if anyone can point to official LEGO web page on which this fact is confirmed. I've already read "Fair Play" document and "Fair Play Brochure" but all what they say is that "the LEGO logo is a trade mark and cannot be used w/o permission" meaning that if I have a brick with LEGO logo on it then I can be 99,99% sure that this is a genuine LEGO brick. What I need, however, is the "opposite" i.e. a sentence claiming that "a stud on a genuine LEGO brick has always had the LEGO logo since the year 19xx" or even more: "a stud on a genuine LEGO brick has never had this round cavity on the top" (cavities I mention are present e.g. on studs [here](https://lepinland.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/457368-eymizg.jpg)).
  
  I've already asked the same question via the contact form on the official LEGO support page but received no answer yet.
  
  Context: I'm currently having a dispute whether a set of bricks that some guy sold me were genuine LEGO bricks. He claims that they were, I know that they were not. I will, however, have to provide evidence to the police. Information on lego.com page or answer from lego.com would do in my opinion. High resolution images of the 42009 set (battery part) on official LEGO page would also be good but ~~this set is no longer present on lego.com~~ this set does not have the close up of the part I need. High resolution images of 8293 (Power Functions Motor Set) are there but are they a proof I don't know yet (one can always say that these parts have LOGO lego now but they didn't in 2013). There is a movie with 42009 on lego.com but it is rendered and does not present real bricks and not sure if can be used.
  
  **EDIT**: yes, all the pieces of the brick set I received (the supposed 42009 set) are forged. I can tell this because the bricks I received differ in many aspects from bricks from original LEGO sets I've assembled so far (more than a dozen sets, mostly > 1000 bricks): some of them connect poorly, some of them connect so hard I struggled a lot to disconnect; the surface of liftarms is not as straight as LEGO liftarms; the liftarms have this extra filling around holes (google "lepin liftarm" and choose "large images" in "adv search" to see what I mean); some pieces are not cut properly e.g. the bushes have thin pieces of plastic connected to the hole on the side; and the main one: there is no LEGO logo on any of the parts: not only the studs but also the battery box and motor. However from legal point of view I can't just say that I am sure that these are not LEGO bricks. Moreover I cannot even prove that the bricks I present are indeed the bricks that the other guy sent me. So I took a closer look at the pictures from the auction (the pictures the seller made himself = the pictures of actual brick set he sent me) and found pieces with studs with no LEGO logo (Black Plate 2x3 (3021) , Motor 9V Power Functions L (99499c01) ). I was extremely lucky that this seller made pictures with such high resolution. And yes, I contacted the LEGO support and sent them exacly the same pictures as below and they confirm that these are NOT original LEGO bricks. I will post their full answer and some more content soon.
  
  [![end of motor cable](https://i.sstatic.net/pwpG9.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/pwpG9.png)
  
  [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/ausco.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/ausco.png)
  
  **Tags:** part-identification
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Two questions: (1) From set 42009, do you suspect ALL of the pieces to be forged?  (2) Please follow this link  https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=42009-1 to set 42009's part inventory and tell us which specific part is logo-less. I need to see a picture of the piece in question.  ,  
  > **username_2**: Yes, sharing pictutes of questionable parts would greatly help to assist with your question.  
  
  ---
  
  ## 1 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_3 on 2019-10-07. Score: 7 | Accepted answer
  
  If you would like to get an official statement on this, your best bet is to contact LEGO's customer service. Here are some pointers you might consider when communicating with them:
  
  It seems like your question is about some of the electronic components. So, let's narrow down your question to those. The battery in the #42009 LEGO Mobile Crane has two studs on top with the LEGO logo on them. In addition, right above the studs their is a "2006 The LEGO Group" moulded into the lighter colored plastic. And there are also larger LEGO logos moulded into the sides of the unit. So, five LEGO logos in total.
  
  This battery box has no alternates. It only came in this one version as evidenced by the BrickLink database, which is the most comprehensive database of all LEGO parts ever made: [Electric 9V Battery Box 4 x 11 x 7 PF](https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=59510c01&idColor=86#T=C&C=86)
  
  I would also add to this that smooth LEGO studs always have the LEGO logo moulded into them, and this has always been the case since the earliest days of the company. There are hollow studs (like in some electronic pieces, LEGO Technic pieces, LEGO windows, hollow 1x1 round studs, etc.), however in such cases the LEGO logo will appear on some other place on the piece. The very few exceptions to this rule are when pieces are so tiny that it was simply not possible/practical to print a LEGO logo on them (i.e. hollow 1x1 round stud, some very small minifigure accessories, etc.)
  
  Rather than being too generic like you did in your question above, when contacting LEGO's customer service, I would suggest to focus on two points. This can result in a quicker response and faster action.
  
  1. Ask them whether the specific electronic parts you are concerned
     about (list exact set and part numbers) were ever produced without a LEGO logo (the answer will be no,
     but for your legal case it's best to have this in writing directly
     from LEGO).
  2. Alert LEGO that someone is selling fake parts and claiming that
     they are genuine. LEGO's legal department will be very interested in
     this, which can help your personal case. It's even possible that
     this seller has been on their radar already, and the information you
     provide will be helpful to their case.
  
  There are lots of imitation LEGO out there, but the companies making them do not claim that their products are genuine LEGO. They sell under their own brand names for cheaper prices than LEGO can provide. LEGO's legal department is fighting these companies already. Someone selling fake LEGO and claiming that it's genuine is a whole other level of criminal.
  
  Please keep in mind that if this is someone like a small eBay seller, they may have been duped themselves and they really believed that the parts they acquired are genuine LEGO. So keep your communication professional and you may be satisfied with just a refund. If, however, the seller is a larger online store specializing in fake LEGO parts and selling them as genuine, definitely let LEGO's legal department know and you may pursue your own legal case as well.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_2**: I would also add, that not all studs have LEGO text on them. Some studs may be used as plastic injection point (PIP) which may not have the logo or may have just "l" and "o". Some genuine parts may not have logo at all! I've seen some older parts (not bricks) with just a (c) copyright logo on them.  
  > **username_3**: @username_2, yes while this is true with some older parts, test bricks, and some unusual parts, I chose to only briefly mention those in my response, because ultimately OP's question was about modern parts from a specific set.  
  > **username_0**: Hello. Here's the OP. First of all thanks for this awesome answer. You talk about so many aspects that I'm more than satisfied. Second: the actual solution to my problem was to ask the official LEGO support and use their answer as evidence. I will mark your answer as correct because you mention it in the first sentence.  
  > **username_0**: Hello, Here's the OP again. The last but not least: my case is finally over and I got my money back. I've sent all the documents to the police (auction description, pictures, e-mails and the aforementioned answer from LEGO support) and they contacted the seller, then he finally contacted me and offered to give back the money. As you mentioned before, it probably was the case that he believed these were original LEGO bricks.  
  > **username_3**: I'm glad the issue was resolved for you. It's disturbing that someone was selling these parts as genuine. Hopefully, the seller learned their lesson as well.  
  
  ---
  
  