Answers.Body: <p>Yes heat is the ultimate problem but the most likely failure will be from the commutator brushes.
  As the voltage is increased so does the heat of the sparks created as the brushes pass from one commutator segment to the other. This is a particular problem on a 3 segment commutator.
  At 30V even if the motors can stand the mechanical loads and heat generated I doubt the brushes would last for more than a few minutes however such a short life would be quite acceptable for a record high speed run, particularly if someone else was paying for the motors!   </p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-01-03T14:48:35.320Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2018-01-03T14:48:35.320Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Quorneng
Answers.Body: <blockquote>
    <p>What could be considered a safe limit that motors can endure for an
    extended period of time?</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>Their rated voltage.  </p>
  
  <p>Motors are designed to operate at their rated voltage indefinitely, or until they wear out, whichever comes first.  Exceeding this voltage means you shorten the life of the motor.</p>
  
  <p>Your big enemy is heat.  At some point, the amount of heat generated by the windings in the motor will exceed the ability of the motor to dissipate it, and the wire in the winding will melt and break the electrical connection (usually at the point where the wire is soldered to the commutator).  </p>
  
  <p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/xJXX6.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></p>
  
  <p>The point at which failure or excessive stress or wear occurs is influenced by many factors, including the amount of current driving the motor, the speed at which the motor is turning, the amount of load the motor is driving, the ambient air temperature, etc.  These variables make it difficult to predict a safe voltage above the rated one. </p>
  
  <p>In addition, over-driving motors in this way makes them inefficient; speed increases are offset by higher losses due to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-electromotive_force" rel="noreferrer">back-emf</a>, limiting the additional torque, so driving motors this way eats batteries fast.</p>
  
  <p>Last but not least, overdriven motors are a safety concern.  The paint covering the windings can catch fire and burn down your house; you have to watch such experiments <em>very</em> carefully.</p>
  
  <p>If you really want to increase the power, your best bet is to choose a motor with more torque, so that you can run it at its rated voltage.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2011-12-11T08:24:47.517Z
Answers.Text: As boring as this answer is for someone like me, I have to admit it's probably the only valid one. So I'll accept it, but that doesn't mean other more daring answers aren't welcome :-)
Answers.UserDisplayName: Joubarc
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-01-04T00:00:48.560Z
Answers.Text: I love this answer, because it makes me want to replace my 9v motors with the high torque mind-storms motors, cooling them with liquid nitrogen, and running high voltages through them....
Answers.UserDisplayName: Roger Hill
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2011-12-09T20:52:54.190Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2011-12-09T20:58:10.023Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2011-12-09T20:58:10.023Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Robert Harvey
Body: <p>When I was in <a href="http://www.freelug.org/spip.php?article706">Fana'Briques in 2008</a>, there was a speed record competition for TGV-themed train. The setup used a section of custom-made straight track (aluminium rails if I remember correctly) and was powered by a custom transformer which could deliver higher voltages than the standard LEGO ones.</p>
  
  <p>As ar as I recall, they went up to above 30v, and there seemed to be more damage to bricks (one train did derail dramatically, and pieces flew everywhere) than to motors.</p>
  
  <p>Is it safe to overload LEGO train motors that way? I assume 30v is pushing it too far, but what could be considered a safe limit that motors can endure for an extended period of time?</p>
  
  <p>I'm speaking of regular 9V motors, but answers for other LEGO motors can be interesting too. I know Philo <a href="http://www.philohome.com/motors/motorcomp.htm">pushed them to 12v</a> when testing their efficiency, but with a big warning that he couldn't guarantee the motors would tolerate it for a longer period.</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2011-12-09T18:28:34.637Z
Comments.Text: If only I had the funds to do the science! http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2011/12/dont-be-afraid-to-use-the-science/
Comments.UserDisplayName: Zhaph - Ben Duguid
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2011-12-09T18:37:52.443Z
Comments.Text: Shouldn't we ask Jeff to back up his article and fund us?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Joubarc
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2011-12-09T19:11:17.187Z
Comments.Text: Good call we can but try - I know SF were after some funding for testing Raid 10 arrays ;)
Comments.UserDisplayName: Zhaph - Ben Duguid
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2012-02-21T06:01:17.267Z
Comments.Text: You could add multiple motors (two motors per unit, plus B units!) and gear them up to shoot for higher speed. That way, you can burn out four motors at a time instead of just one. :)
Comments.UserDisplayName: AndrewS
Tags: <trains><safety><motor>
Title: Is it safe to overload LEGO train motors?
UserDisplayName: Joubarc
ThreadText: # Is it safe to overload LEGO train motors?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2011-12-09)
  
  When I was in [Fana'Briques in 2008](http://www.freelug.org/spip.php?article706), there was a speed record competition for TGV-themed train. The setup used a section of custom-made straight track (aluminium rails if I remember correctly) and was powered by a custom transformer which could deliver higher voltages than the standard LEGO ones.
  
  As ar as I recall, they went up to above 30v, and there seemed to be more damage to bricks (one train did derail dramatically, and pieces flew everywhere) than to motors.
  
  Is it safe to overload LEGO train motors that way? I assume 30v is pushing it too far, but what could be considered a safe limit that motors can endure for an extended period of time?
  
  I'm speaking of regular 9V motors, but answers for other LEGO motors can be interesting too. I know Philo [pushed them to 12v](http://www.philohome.com/motors/motorcomp.htm) when testing their efficiency, but with a big warning that he couldn't guarantee the motors would tolerate it for a longer period.
  
  **Tags:** trains, safety, motor
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: If only I had the funds to do the science! http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2011/12/dont-be-afraid-to-use-the-science/  
  > **username_0**: Shouldn't we ask Jeff to back up his article and fund us?  
  > **username_1**: Good call we can but try - I know SF were after some funding for testing Raid 10 arrays ;)  
  > **username_2**: You could add multiple motors (two motors per unit, plus B units!) and gear them up to shoot for higher speed. That way, you can burn out four motors at a time instead of just one. :)  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_4 on 2011-12-09. Score: 15 | Accepted answer
  
  > What could be considered a safe limit that motors can endure for an
  > extended period of time?
  
  Their rated voltage.
  
  Motors are designed to operate at their rated voltage indefinitely, or until they wear out, whichever comes first. Exceeding this voltage means you shorten the life of the motor.
  
  Your big enemy is heat. At some point, the amount of heat generated by the windings in the motor will exceed the ability of the motor to dissipate it, and the wire in the winding will melt and break the electrical connection (usually at the point where the wire is soldered to the commutator).
  
  ![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/xJXX6.jpg)
  
  The point at which failure or excessive stress or wear occurs is influenced by many factors, including the amount of current driving the motor, the speed at which the motor is turning, the amount of load the motor is driving, the ambient air temperature, etc. These variables make it difficult to predict a safe voltage above the rated one.
  
  In addition, over-driving motors in this way makes them inefficient; speed increases are offset by higher losses due to [back-emf](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-electromotive_force), limiting the additional torque, so driving motors this way eats batteries fast.
  
  Last but not least, overdriven motors are a safety concern. The paint covering the windings can catch fire and burn down your house; you have to watch such experiments *very* carefully.
  
  If you really want to increase the power, your best bet is to choose a motor with more torque, so that you can run it at its rated voltage.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: As boring as this answer is for someone like me, I have to admit it's probably the only valid one. So I'll accept it, but that doesn't mean other more daring answers aren't welcome :-)  
  > **username_5**: I love this answer, because it makes me want to replace my 9v motors with the high torque mind-storms motors, cooling them with liquid nitrogen, and running high voltages through them....  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_3 on 2018-01-03. Score: 1
  
  Yes heat is the ultimate problem but the most likely failure will be from the commutator brushes.
  As the voltage is increased so does the heat of the sparks created as the brushes pass from one commutator segment to the other. This is a particular problem on a 3 segment commutator.
  At 30V even if the motors can stand the mechanical loads and heat generated I doubt the brushes would last for more than a few minutes however such a short life would be quite acceptable for a record high speed run, particularly if someone else was paying for the motors!
  
  
  ---
  
  