Answers.Body: <p>4th rank, 4+1 pawns:</p>
  <pre><code>[Title &quot;White plays and wins&quot;]
  [FEN &quot;8/8/8/8/kPP5/2P5/1P5p/K7 w - - 0 0&quot;]
  
  1. Ka2 h1=Q 2. b3#
  </code></pre>
  <p>(Also works with 3+2 pawns,
  removing wPb4 or wPc4 and adding bPa5 or bPb5 respectively.
  All of these are drawn with bPh2 moved to c2,
  when Black answers 1 Ka2 with c1=N+!)</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-09-26T02:32:13.333Z
Answers.Text: [copied from my answer to https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/40655 as requested]
Answers.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-09-26T09:03:33.987Z
Answers.Text: THX for moving! BTW, since I defined "less white pawns" for record judging purposes, your alternatives "score" better.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-09-27T07:12:58.630Z
Answers.Text: In the 4+1 version with bPc2, I am not sure Black can save the game after 1.Ka2 c1N+! 2.Kb1 and 3.Kc2...
Answers.UserDisplayName: Evargalo
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-09-27T13:51:16.947Z
Answers.Text: I wasn't sure either but Syzygy says it's a draw, noting the resource  1 Ka2 c1N+! 2 Kb1 Nd3! 3 Kc2 Nxb2! (other moves lose).
Answers.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-09-26T02:30:56.043Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2022-09-26T02:30:56.043Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
Answers.Body: <p>Not a record but even all-on-base-rank pawns can mate:</p>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;8/8/8/4ppp1/1K2kpp1/8/p2PPP2/8 w - - 0 1&quot;]
  </code></pre>
  <p>1.Kc4! and queening is immediate mate, f3 only delays a move.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-09-25T21:46:42.663Z
Answers.Text: We immediately save two bP's by shifting the diagram two squares to the right.  (Then 1 Ke4(Ke5) threatens two different mates, but you asked only for a forced win, not a sound problem.)
Answers.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-09-26T20:45:50.503Z
Answers.Text: @NoamD.Elkies: Yup. Shame on me I saw it only five seconds after posting :-)
Answers.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2022-09-25T18:37:40.217Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2022-09-25T18:37:40.217Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Body: <p>Base: <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/40655/queen-first-lose-or-draw-later">Queen first, lose (or draw) later</a></p>
  <p>What is the most economical pawn endgame position where Black queens first but White wins, White pawns no higher than 4th rank on time of Black queening?</p>
  <p>(FYI, Ke6 + 8 pawns on the 5th seem to win against Qd1+Ke1, but Ke5 + 8 on the 4th lose, trusting Stockfish)</p>
  <p>(added so Noam can move his answer here, where it fits better. And I can post my rank 2 solution)</p>
  
Tags: <pawn-endgame>
Title: Queen first, lose (or draw) later 6
ThreadText: # Queen first, lose (or draw) later 6
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2022-09-25)
  
  Base: [Queen first, lose (or draw) later](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/40655/queen-first-lose-or-draw-later)
  
  What is the most economical pawn endgame position where Black queens first but White wins, White pawns no higher than 4th rank on time of Black queening?
  
  (FYI, Ke6 + 8 pawns on the 5th seem to win against Qd1+Ke1, but Ke5 + 8 on the 4th lose, trusting Stockfish)
  
  (added so Noam can move his answer here, where it fits better. And I can post my rank 2 solution)
  
  **Tags:** pawn-endgame
  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2022-09-26. Score: 3 | Accepted answer
  
  4th rank, 4+1 pawns:
  [Title "White plays and wins"]
  [FEN "8/8/8/8/kPP5/2P5/1P5p/K7 w - - 0 0"]
  
  1. Ka2 h1=Q 2. b3#
  
  (Also works with 3+2 pawns,
  removing wPb4 or wPc4 and adding bPa5 or bPb5 respectively.
  All of these are drawn with bPh2 moved to c2,
  when Black answers 1 Ka2 with c1=N+!)
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: [copied from my answer to https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/40655 as requested]  
  > **username_0**: THX for moving! BTW, since I defined "less white pawns" for record judging purposes, your alternatives "score" better.  
  > **username_2**: In the 4+1 version with bPc2, I am not sure Black can save the game after 1.Ka2 c1N+! 2.Kb1 and 3.Kc2...  
  > **username_1**: I wasn't sure either but Syzygy says it's a draw, noting the resource  1 Ka2 c1N+! 2 Kb1 Nd3! 3 Kc2 Nxb2! (other moves lose).  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_0 on 2022-09-25. Score: 2
  
  Not a record but even all-on-base-rank pawns can mate:
  [FEN "8/8/8/4ppp1/1K2kpp1/8/p2PPP2/8 w - - 0 1"]
  
  1.Kc4! and queening is immediate mate, f3 only delays a move.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: We immediately save two bP's by shifting the diagram two squares to the right.  (Then 1 Ke4(Ke5) threatens two different mates, but you asked only for a forced win, not a sound problem.)  
  > **username_0**: @NoamD.Elkies: Yup. Shame on me I saw it only five seconds after posting :-)  
  
  ---
  
  