Answers.Body: <p>According to <a href="https://www.olimpbase.org/Elo/player/Lazic,%20Marina.html" rel="noreferrer">Olimpbase</a>, Marina Lazic first appeared in the FIDE rating lists as a Yugoslav player in July 1982 with a rating of 1840. She improved to a rating of 2230 in the January and July 1996 lists and her last known rating was 2205 in July 1998. Her FIDE Id was 910562. No date of birth given.</p>
  
  <p>There is a Serbian player with the same FIN called Stojanovic, Marija Z but she was born in 1984 and is clearly not the same person. I suspect that this is yet another case of a player dying and their FIN being reused.</p>
  
  <p>A similar story for T. Kogan. According to <a href="https://www.olimpbase.org/Elo/player/Kogan,%20T..html" rel="noreferrer">Olimpbase</a>, they (I'm not convinced Kogan was a woman) first appeared in the January 1988 list as a USSR player with a rating of 2230 and their last appearance was in January 1993 with a rating of 2245. Their FIN was 4108230 and no date of birth.</p>
  
  <p>Again their FIN was reused in 2007 for male Russian player Rusjaev, Nikolay. I suspect Kogan died. I also suspect that he was a man since if he had really been a woman s/he would have had ratings long before 2230. The rating floor for women was 1800 and for men 2200.</p>
  
  <p>Again a similar story for Tazhieva, Lyazzat. According to <a href="https://www.olimpbase.org/Elo/player/Tazhieva,%20Lyazzat.html" rel="noreferrer">Olimpbase</a>, she first appeared in the January 1988 list as a USSR player with a rating of 2185. Her FIN as a USSR player was 4108930. When Kazakhstan was recognised as a FIDE federation she became a Kazakhstan player and her FIN changed to 13700138.</p>
  
  <p>Again her FIN was reused in 2007 for female KAZ player Zhylkaidarova, Sholpan.</p>
  
  <p>Same story for Sergeeva, Tatyana. Here are her <a href="https://www.olimpbase.org/Elo/player/Sergeeva,%20Tatyana.html" rel="noreferrer">Olimbase</a> records. Her FIN changed from 4108361 as a USSR, Russia player to 13700235 with Kazakhstan. Her FIN was reused in 2008 for Ulkhanov, Azamat.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-05-25T00:07:16.387Z
Answers.Text: Why are FINs reused? Doesn't that defeat their purpose?
Answers.UserDisplayName: orlp
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-05-25T07:54:58.263Z
Answers.Text: @orlp I believe they have stopped doing that, but yes it isn't very clever. I suspect FIDE don't have competent programmers doing this stuff. There are often "Highlanders" in the FIDE database, players with DoBs hundreds of years ago. When I've pointed them out in the past FIDE's response has been to just delete the DoB rather than correct. The first iteration of FINs was also only 5 digits. Players also used to change FINs when they changed federation, etc., etc. Don't get me started!
Answers.UserDisplayName: Brian Towers
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-05-24T10:06:32.873Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2020-05-24T11:09:36.093Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2020-05-24T11:09:36.093Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Brian Towers
Answers.Body: <p>Tatyana Sergeeva (Татьяна Сергеева) and Lyazzat Tazhieva (Ляззат Тажиева) are representatives of Soviet/Kazakhstan school of chess.</p>
  
  <p>According to <a href="https://www.sports.kz/news/net-prichin-dlya-pessimizma" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this article from sports.kz</a>, <a href="https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=13700049" rel="nofollow noreferrer">GM Bolat Asanov</a> says:</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>В 1996 году в мировом рейтинге женская сборная Казахстана занимала 8-9-е места. К сожалению, победная цепь разорвалась. Резервы «не поспели» и не смогли заполнить образовавшиеся пустоты: ушли из жизни Татьяна Сергеева, Ляззат Тажиева. ...</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>My translation:</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>In 1996, in the world rating, Kazakhstan women national team was around the 8-9th place. Unfortunately, the winning streak was broken. The young blood was not ready fast enough and they were not able to fill the emerging gaps: Tatiana Sergeeva and Lyazzat Tazhieva passed away. ...</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>Therefore, sadly, these high-rated FIDE players of the 90s are not alive, unless there is some error in the report of "PROSPORT Kazakhstan" Talap Koybagarov or information given by Bolat Asanov.</p>
  
  <p>Lyazzat Tazhieva:</p>
  
  <ul>
  <li><a href="https://otyrar.kz/2013/07/sostoyalsya-chempionat-goroda-po-shaxmatam-v-pamyat-lyazzat-tazhievoj/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">July 2013, Shymkent Chess Tournament in memory of Lyazzat Tazhieva</a></li>
  <li><a href="https://2gis.kz/shymkent/firm/70000001026700782" rel="nofollow noreferrer">In Shymkent, there seems to be a sports school named after Lyazzat</a></li>
  </ul>
  
  <p>Tatyana Sergeeva (this is harder, as the last name is so much more common):</p>
  
  <ul>
  <li><p><a href="https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%98%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0_(%D0%96%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Wiki page in Kazakh lists Tatyana Sergeeva (Zhivaeva) to pass away in 2000. Also, it mentions her participating in the final of World Chess Olympiad in 1996 and 1998.</a>:</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>Татьяна Ильиничина Сергеева (Живаева) (1.01.1957 - 15.09.2000 Алм. қ-сы.), ХДСШ-і (1981). Респ-ның 4 дүркін (1977, 1980, 1991, 1996) ч-ны. 2 Рет КСРО ч-тының (1977-т.б., 1981- Алм.) финалында ойнады, Бүкілдүниежүзілік ш-т олимпиадасына (1996 - Ереван, 1998 - Элиста) қатысты.</p>
    
    <p>Қазақстан - спортшылар елі. Энциклопедиялық анықтамалық. - Алматы: "Сөздік-Словарь". ISBN 9965-822-57-3</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>with an apparent source of "Kazakhstan — Sportsmen Country. Encyclopedia."</p></li>
  </ul>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-05-24T08:13:30.313Z
Answers.Text: Thanks Anton! Sad news. Do they mention a year of birth for Tazhieva? (I wish I could speak a bit of Russian...)
Answers.UserDisplayName: Kortchnoi
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-05-24T09:48:30.877Z
Answers.Text: @AntonMenshov I have updated my question with a new woman (Kogan, T) who, I assume, comes from the same Soviet/Kazakhstan chess school. I'd appreciate any information if you have... thanks.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Kortchnoi
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-05-24T10:31:16.383Z
Answers.Text: The [search query](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22%D0%9B%D1%8F%D0%B7%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%82+%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%22+-%E2%84%964%2C+-%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB812GB812&oq=%22%D0%9B%D1%8F%D0%B7%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%82+%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%22+-%E2%84%964%2C+-%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8&aqs=chrome..69i57.311j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) "Ляззат Тажиевой" -№4, -имени gave no results on her year of birth. Tazhieva's chess record can be found on [OlimpBase](http://www.olimpbase.org/playersw/z5nplnnh.html).
Answers.UserDisplayName: TheSimpliFire
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-05-25T02:08:57.590Z
Answers.Text: @Kortchnoi not really, I was not able to find that info. However, it is very likely that Tazhieva died in 1996.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Anton Menshov
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-05-24T00:15:56.630Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2020-05-24T02:56:56.483Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2020-05-24T02:56:56.483Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Anton Menshov
Body: <p>I am interested in the history of chess and, looking at the old FIDE rankings, I am a little puzzled by the lack of information about some strong Women International Masters, with a FIDE rating above 2200.</p>
  
  <p>For instance, </p>
  
  <ul>
  <li><a href="https://old.chesstempo.com/gamedb/player/242217" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Lazic, Marina</a></li>
  <li><a href="https://old.chesstempo.com/gamedb/player/246676" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Tazhieva, Lyazzat</a></li>
  <li><a href="https://old.chesstempo.com/gamedb/player/245784" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Sergeeva, Tatyana</a> </li>
  <li>Update: <a href="https://www.olimpbase.org/Elo/player/Kogan,%20T.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Kogan, T</a>, she is probably not titled but over 2200 in the late '80s.</li>
  </ul>
  
  <p>Does anyone know them? 
  How old are they?  Are they still alive?</p>
  
  <p>N.B. I couldn't find them and they may have been married and changed their names.</p>
  
Tags: <history><fide><women>
Title: Unknown Women International Masters
ThreadText: # Unknown Women International Masters
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2020-05-23)
  
  I am interested in the history of chess and, looking at the old FIDE rankings, I am a little puzzled by the lack of information about some strong Women International Masters, with a FIDE rating above 2200.
  
  For instance,
  
  * [Lazic, Marina](https://old.chesstempo.com/gamedb/player/242217)
  * [Tazhieva, Lyazzat](https://old.chesstempo.com/gamedb/player/246676)
  * [Sergeeva, Tatyana](https://old.chesstempo.com/gamedb/player/245784)
  * Update: [Kogan, T](https://www.olimpbase.org/Elo/player/Kogan,%20T.htm), she is probably not titled but over 2200 in the late '80s.
  
  Does anyone know them?
  How old are they? Are they still alive?
  
  N.B. I couldn't find them and they may have been married and changed their names.
  
  **Tags:** history, fide, women
  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_3 on 2020-05-24. Score: 6 | Accepted answer
  
  Tatyana Sergeeva (Татьяна Сергеева) and Lyazzat Tazhieva (Ляззат Тажиева) are representatives of Soviet/Kazakhstan school of chess.
  
  According to [this article from sports.kz](https://www.sports.kz/news/net-prichin-dlya-pessimizma), [GM Bolat Asanov](https://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=13700049) says:
  
  > В 1996 году в мировом рейтинге женская сборная Казахстана занимала 8-9-е места. К сожалению, победная цепь разорвалась. Резервы «не поспели» и не смогли заполнить образовавшиеся пустоты: ушли из жизни Татьяна Сергеева, Ляззат Тажиева. ...
  
  My translation:
  
  > In 1996, in the world rating, Kazakhstan women national team was around the 8-9th place. Unfortunately, the winning streak was broken. The young blood was not ready fast enough and they were not able to fill the emerging gaps: Tatiana Sergeeva and Lyazzat Tazhieva passed away. ...
  
  Therefore, sadly, these high-rated FIDE players of the 90s are not alive, unless there is some error in the report of "PROSPORT Kazakhstan" Talap Koybagarov or information given by Bolat Asanov.
  
  Lyazzat Tazhieva:
  
  * [July 2013, Shymkent Chess Tournament in memory of Lyazzat Tazhieva](https://otyrar.kz/2013/07/sostoyalsya-chempionat-goroda-po-shaxmatam-v-pamyat-lyazzat-tazhievoj/)
  * [In Shymkent, there seems to be a sports school named after Lyazzat](https://2gis.kz/shymkent/firm/70000001026700782)
  
  Tatyana Sergeeva (this is harder, as the last name is so much more common):
  
  * [Wiki page in Kazakh lists Tatyana Sergeeva (Zhivaeva) to pass away in 2000. Also, it mentions her participating in the final of World Chess Olympiad in 1996 and 1998.](https://kk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C%D1%8F%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%98%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0_(%D0%96%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0)):
  
    > Татьяна Ильиничина Сергеева (Живаева) (1.01.1957 - 15.09.2000 Алм. қ-сы.), ХДСШ-і (1981). Респ-ның 4 дүркін (1977, 1980, 1991, 1996) ч-ны. 2 Рет КСРО ч-тының (1977-т.б., 1981- Алм.) финалында ойнады, Бүкілдүниежүзілік ш-т олимпиадасына (1996 - Ереван, 1998 - Элиста) қатысты.
    >
    > Қазақстан - спортшылар елі. Энциклопедиялық анықтамалық. - Алматы: "Сөздік-Словарь". ISBN 9965-822-57-3
  
    with an apparent source of "Kazakhstan — Sportsmen Country. Encyclopedia."
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: Thanks Anton! Sad news. Do they mention a year of birth for Tazhieva? (I wish I could speak a bit of Russian...)  
  > **username_0**: @AntonMenshov I have updated my question with a new woman (Kogan, T) who, I assume, comes from the same Soviet/Kazakhstan chess school. I'd appreciate any information if you have... thanks.  
  > **username_4**: The [search query](https://www.google.com/search?q=%22%D0%9B%D1%8F%D0%B7%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%82+%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%22+-%E2%84%964%2C+-%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB812GB812&oq=%22%D0%9B%D1%8F%D0%B7%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%82+%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%22+-%E2%84%964%2C+-%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8&aqs=chrome..69i57.311j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) "Ляззат Тажиевой" -№4, -имени gave no results on her year of birth. Tazhieva's chess record can be found on [OlimpBase](http://www.olimpbase.org/playersw/z5nplnnh.html).  
  > **username_3**: @username_0 not really, I was not able to find that info. However, it is very likely that Tazhieva died in 1996.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2020-05-24. Score: 6
  
  According to [Olimpbase](https://www.olimpbase.org/Elo/player/Lazic,%20Marina.html), Marina Lazic first appeared in the FIDE rating lists as a Yugoslav player in July 1982 with a rating of 1840. She improved to a rating of 2230 in the January and July 1996 lists and her last known rating was 2205 in July 1998. Her FIDE Id was 910562. No date of birth given.
  
  There is a Serbian player with the same FIN called Stojanovic, Marija Z but she was born in 1984 and is clearly not the same person. I suspect that this is yet another case of a player dying and their FIN being reused.
  
  A similar story for T. Kogan. According to [Olimpbase](https://www.olimpbase.org/Elo/player/Kogan,%20T..html), they (I'm not convinced Kogan was a woman) first appeared in the January 1988 list as a USSR player with a rating of 2230 and their last appearance was in January 1993 with a rating of 2245. Their FIN was 4108230 and no date of birth.
  
  Again their FIN was reused in 2007 for male Russian player Rusjaev, Nikolay. I suspect Kogan died. I also suspect that he was a man since if he had really been a woman s/he would have had ratings long before 2230. The rating floor for women was 1800 and for men 2200.
  
  Again a similar story for Tazhieva, Lyazzat. According to [Olimpbase](https://www.olimpbase.org/Elo/player/Tazhieva,%20Lyazzat.html), she first appeared in the January 1988 list as a USSR player with a rating of 2185. Her FIN as a USSR player was 4108930. When Kazakhstan was recognised as a FIDE federation she became a Kazakhstan player and her FIN changed to 13700138.
  
  Again her FIN was reused in 2007 for female KAZ player Zhylkaidarova, Sholpan.
  
  Same story for Sergeeva, Tatyana. Here are her [Olimbase](https://www.olimpbase.org/Elo/player/Sergeeva,%20Tatyana.html) records. Her FIN changed from 4108361 as a USSR, Russia player to 13700235 with Kazakhstan. Her FIN was reused in 2008 for Ulkhanov, Azamat.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_2**: Why are FINs reused? Doesn't that defeat their purpose?  
  > **username_1**: @username_2 I believe they have stopped doing that, but yes it isn't very clever. I suspect FIDE don't have competent programmers doing this stuff. There are often "Highlanders" in the FIDE database, players with DoBs hundreds of years ago. When I've pointed them out in the past FIDE's response has been to just delete the DoB rather than correct. The first iteration of FINs was also only 5 digits. Players also used to change FINs when they changed federation, etc., etc. Don't get me started!  
  
  ---
  
  