Answers.Body: <p>Interesting question. I created this lichess study to explore the positions. <a href="https://lichess.org/study/G9MToz1f/KNa6P6py" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://lichess.org/study/G9MToz1f/KNa6P6py</a></p>
  <p>Turning the &quot;book&quot; feature on, neither of these two positions is in their database. However, the machine gives Black a -1.4 or -1.6 advantage only, so clearly White has some compensation.</p>
  <p>I made some moves for White and Black partly based on intuition, and partly verifying that the engine approved it... i.e., one of the top three engine suggestions. Doing so, you get some idea about how to play these two positions.</p>
  <p>We understand what the issues are... king safety, where to develop which piece, and time needed to get it done. White's moves come easy. However, they are not sufficient.  Black's moves are difficult, but with a proper strategy and move order, it works.</p>
  <p>The engine wants to play ...c5 early, at the cost of development. That sounds a bit dangerous -- for me, anyways. ...Nbd7 is not ideal (imo), but at least it gets the piece out. You can try ...c5 on the study, and play a few moves for each side, and see how you feel.</p>
  <p>Yuur question is open-ended, and there is no one answer. Play around with the study in the link. I'd also try these lines out with another human player, who is ideally your strength, or slightly stronger.... to get a feel for the positions that arise.</p>
  <p>Good luck!</p>
  <p>Please feel free to ask a followup, or discuss.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2024-08-10T22:19:42.843Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2024-08-10T22:25:09.420Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2024-08-10T22:25:09.420Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: amarnath
Body: <p>How do you face these two gambits in the Caro Kann. They cause a lot of headache and I would like to have an understanding of the strategy (if there is any) not just some engine lines how to reply to each of them in a similar way if possible.</p>
  <p>In Gambit 1:</p>
  <pre><code>[Title &quot;Gambit 1&quot;]
  [FEN &quot;&quot;]
  [StartPly &quot;9&quot;]
   
  1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Ng5 Bf5 (5...h6 6.Nxf7 Kxf7) (5...c5 6.Nxf7 Kxf7) 6.Nxf7 Kxf7
  </code></pre>
  <p>Gambit 2:</p>
  <pre><code>[Title &quot;Gambit 2&quot;]
  [FEN &quot;&quot;] 
  [StartPly &quot;9&quot;]
  
  1.e4 c6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Neg5 h6 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 
  </code></pre>
  <p>I want a solution at move 5 for Black for both gambits. In many of these lines White continues with moves like Bc4, etc, and it's very hard to meet these moves.</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-08-09T01:20:04.387Z
Comments.Text: There's nothing wrong with any of the three moves 5 . . . c5/h6/Bf5.  In each case 6 Nxf7 is not a gambit but a blunder: White does not have nearly enough compensation.  For example 5 . . . h6 6 Nxf7? Kxf7 7 Bc4+ e6, a move Black wants to play anyway to develop the Bf8, and then "castle by hand" with Rf8(e8) and Kg8.  You could even play provocatively 7 Bc4+ Be6!? 8 Bxe6+ Kxe6 -- White has nothing developed, and Black is still a piece ahead and will soon hide the King on g8.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-08-09T02:32:29.253Z
Comments.Text: I'm aware of all of these continuations but It's still not clear how to proceed from there, specially after the line 7.Bc4+ Be6 and White decides not to exchange the bishops or even if White decides to exchange bishops the Black king is in the center and it's hard to find a plan/strategy in such positions. That's why I asked the question because I can see all of these engine moves but what's the strategy after it?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Guess601
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-08-09T04:26:03.060Z
Comments.Text: Just play normal piece-up chess.  Get the King to safety and develop.  Since you're a piece up, you'll gain from equal piece trades; so piece trades become a "threat" that you can use to either simplify or gain concessions.   Alternatively, use the extra material to attack *White*'s king and force White to offer piece trades.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-08-09T05:56:35.037Z
Comments.Text: AFAIK, this is called the "Alien Gambit". One trap to avoid is 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nf6 5. Ng5 h6 6. Nxf7? Kxf7 7. Nf3 Bg4? 8. Ne5+! which wins back the piece
Comments.UserDisplayName: Aemyl
Tags: <opening><caro-kann><gambits>
Title: Two gambits in the Caro Kann
ThreadText: # Two gambits in the Caro Kann
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2024-08-08)
  
  How do you face these two gambits in the Caro Kann. They cause a lot of headache and I would like to have an understanding of the strategy (if there is any) not just some engine lines how to reply to each of them in a similar way if possible.
  In Gambit 1:
  [Title "Gambit 1"]
  [FEN ""]
  [StartPly "9"]
   
  1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Ng5 Bf5 (5...h6 6.Nxf7 Kxf7) (5...c5 6.Nxf7 Kxf7) 6.Nxf7 Kxf7
  
  Gambit 2:
  [Title "Gambit 2"]
  [FEN ""] 
  [StartPly "9"]
  
  1.e4 c6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Neg5 h6 6.Nxf7 Kxf7 
  
  I want a solution at move 5 for Black for both gambits. In many of these lines White continues with moves like Bc4, etc, and it's very hard to meet these moves.
  
  **Tags:** opening, caro-kann, gambits
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: There's nothing wrong with any of the three moves 5 . . . c5/h6/Bf5.  In each case 6 Nxf7 is not a gambit but a blunder: White does not have nearly enough compensation.  For example 5 . . . h6 6 Nxf7? Kxf7 7 Bc4+ e6, a move Black wants to play anyway to develop the Bf8, and then "castle by hand" with Rf8(e8) and Kg8.  You could even play provocatively 7 Bc4+ Be6!? 8 Bxe6+ Kxe6 -- White has nothing developed, and Black is still a piece ahead and will soon hide the King on g8.  
  > **username_0**: I'm aware of all of these continuations but It's still not clear how to proceed from there, specially after the line 7.Bc4+ Be6 and White decides not to exchange the bishops or even if White decides to exchange bishops the Black king is in the center and it's hard to find a plan/strategy in such positions. That's why I asked the question because I can see all of these engine moves but what's the strategy after it?  
  > **username_1**: Just play normal piece-up chess.  Get the King to safety and develop.  Since you're a piece up, you'll gain from equal piece trades; so piece trades become a "threat" that you can use to either simplify or gain concessions.   Alternatively, use the extra material to attack *White*'s king and force White to offer piece trades.  
  > **username_2**: AFAIK, this is called the "Alien Gambit". One trap to avoid is 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nf6 5. Ng5 h6 6. Nxf7? Kxf7 7. Nf3 Bg4? 8. Ne5+! which wins back the piece  
  
  ---
  
  ## 1 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_3 on 2024-08-10. Score: 0
  
  Interesting question. I created this lichess study to explore the positions. <https://lichess.org/study/G9MToz1f/KNa6P6py>
  
  Turning the "book" feature on, neither of these two positions is in their database. However, the machine gives Black a -1.4 or -1.6 advantage only, so clearly White has some compensation.
  
  I made some moves for White and Black partly based on intuition, and partly verifying that the engine approved it... i.e., one of the top three engine suggestions. Doing so, you get some idea about how to play these two positions.
  
  We understand what the issues are... king safety, where to develop which piece, and time needed to get it done. White's moves come easy. However, they are not sufficient. Black's moves are difficult, but with a proper strategy and move order, it works.
  
  The engine wants to play ...c5 early, at the cost of development. That sounds a bit dangerous -- for me, anyways. ...Nbd7 is not ideal (imo), but at least it gets the piece out. You can try ...c5 on the study, and play a few moves for each side, and see how you feel.
  
  Yuur question is open-ended, and there is no one answer. Play around with the study in the link. I'd also try these lines out with another human player, who is ideally your strength, or slightly stronger.... to get a feel for the positions that arise.
  
  Good luck!
  
  Please feel free to ask a followup, or discuss.
  
  
  ---
  
  