Answers.Body: <p>As have been already said in comments a player is - per the <a href="https://rcc.fide.com/fide-laws-of-chess_fulltexthtml/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">FIDE Laws of Chess</a> not allowed to use <em>any</em> outside material or instrument to play the game.</p>
  <p>That includes not only &quot;obviously&quot; forbidden materials like computers, databases, books, etc., but it is even forbidden to write down anything else than the moves (and optionally the clock times) as the notation of the game on your score sheet <em>yourself</em>. Wesley So once violated that by writing slogans like &quot;move faster&quot; onto his scoresheet and, after being warned by the arbiter, forfeited his game.</p>
  <p>It is probably debatable if the player should be allowed to roll the dice <em>before</em> the game starts, because the aforementioned &quot;outside help&quot; is only forbidden <em>during</em> the game. So, the &quot;strong player&quot; could get away with the charade if he comes to the table, rolls the dice, only then sits down, shakes hands and starts the clock.</p>
  <p>On the other hand: the whole thing makes apparent a quite shitty attitude towards the opponent and an arbiter could - and should - act upon that, based on the <a href="https://doc.fide.com/docs/DOC/2FC2021/Annex_6.6.1.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">FIDE Code of Ethics</a>. This takes even prevalence over the Laws of chess (that is: in the unlikely event of these two contradicting each other the Code of Ethics is taking precedence).</p>
  <p>(Note: &quot;Code of Ethics&quot; is actually the old name, this is now &quot;Ethics &amp; Disciplinary Code&quot;. The given link is to the version of 2021.)</p>
  <p>If this &quot;strong player&quot; really wants to decide randomly upon the opening he could - silently - use all sorts of sources to decide: for instance: he could look at his watch, take the seconds, divide by three (rounded up) and you get a number between 1 and 20 too, you don't even have to tell anybody what you need this number for. To make such a production about it and make sure everybody knows about his intention is just a way of belittling his opponent. In online chess these trolls are unavoidable, in a OTB tournament just throw them out for good. A chess tournament is not the place to make good on the missing education and manners one learns in kindergarden.</p>
  <p>Post Scriptum:</p>
  <ul>
  <li><strong>About &quot;no belittling&quot;</strong>
  It came up in the comments that - since the opponent didn't object - there was no disrespect. Really? So, the next time I show the finger to some blind player that would be OK, because he hasn't seen it, yes? And if I spit into your food and you don't notice it - and therefore don't find it disgusting - that makes it somehow OK.</li>
  </ul>
  <p>This has nothing to do with chess, but everything with the <em><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Contract" rel="nofollow noreferrer">contrat social</a></em> we all are expected to uphold. Bad manners is not what has been objected to and good manners is more than avoiding what a singular person finds annoying. If somebody doesn't know the difference: I suggest to grow up!</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2024-11-27T09:25:01.853Z
Answers.Text: There is no disrespect necessarily present in such an action. There is no belittling. Remember the opponent didn't find it annoying or distracting. I think it's cool as a kind of generous equalizer in an age where we no longer have odds games. And the numerical coincidence of 20 = 20 is pleasant as well.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Laska
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Answers.CreationDate: 2024-11-27T14:15:57.740Z
Answers.Text: Re your first paragraph: I searched through the rules per your link, and did not find any mention of "outside" or "material", so can you perhaps point to the specific article you are referring to? 11.3.1 ("During play the players are forbidden to use any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard.") may be relevant, but calling a die a "source of information or advice" sounds dubious. 11.5 ("It is forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent in any manner whatsoever.") may also be interesting. ...
Answers.UserDisplayName: Stephan Kolassa
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Answers.CreationDate: 2024-11-27T14:17:15.633Z
Answers.Text: ... In any case, I find an argument that rolling a die is "outside material" or alternatively a "source of information or advice" and therefore forbidden a little tenuous if a few paragraphs later you apparently have no problem with using a watch to obtain the exact same kind of "information"...
Answers.UserDisplayName: Stephan Kolassa
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Answers.Text: I will point out that most USCF tournaments (including the one I attended) are not FIDE rated and thus are not subject to the FIDE Laws of Chess. The USCF rules are not worded identically.
Answers.UserDisplayName: D M
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Answers.Text: @StephanKolassa Yes, the "no annoying/distracting the opponent" rule was a little too obvious, which is why I made the stipulation in my question that the opponent did not find it to be so. However, given that I noticed this from a couple of boards away, it could be argued that he was distracting or annoying *other* boards even if his opponent was not distracted. Of course this is mitigated by the fact that it was right at the round start where it's unlikely for nearby players to be in a deep think.
Answers.UserDisplayName: D M
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Answers.Text: An FM at my club did this for years, regardless of opponent (including against GMs). He meant no disrespect whatsoever, he just doesn't like opening theory. As it always happens before the very first move no arbiters cared about it, it may be considered before the start of the game.
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Answers.UserDisplayName: bakunin
Body: <p>At a USCF tournament I recently attended, I saw a player, facing an opponent rated 600 points lower, roll a 20 sided die to determine what their first move would be. Does anything in the rules make this illegal? Would it matter if it was done before the clocks were started, or after? (Let's assume for the sake of argument that the opponent didn't find this to be annoying or distracting in violation of rule 20G.)</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-27T07:54:22.543Z
Comments.Text: I am not an arbiter but [The Fide Laws of Chess](https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023) Rule 11.3.1 states "During play the players are forbidden to use any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard." The die is a source of information, hence forbidden. IMO This can only really apply after the start of the game, but a quick scan of the laws doesn't give me anything to quote.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ian Bush
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Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-27T07:56:54.230Z
Comments.Text: Also IMO there is an underlying rule, one of life really, which is "Don't act like a dick" which again IMO is being broken here - so 11.1 "The players shall take no action that will bring the game of chess into disrepute." could also come into play.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ian Bush
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Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-27T07:58:25.250Z
Comments.Text: Just a comment because I know FIDE rules, not USCF rules : before the game is started, this is allowed. It might be considered disrespectful if it is done in front of the opponent, but otherwise it is just a weird kind of opening preparation, I suppose. But once the clocks are started, rule 11.3.1 of Fide Law says: "During play the players are forbidden to use any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard." The die is a source of information and advice (random information, yet information ; random advice, but adivce), so it is forbidden.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Evargalo
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Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-27T08:00:38.240Z
Comments.Text: Cross-posted with @IanBush . Thankfully, we are in agreement !
Comments.UserDisplayName: Evargalo
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-27T09:26:25.443Z
Comments.Text: @Evargalo The word "information" has several meanings. It's a big stretch to claim that the dice is a source of "information", even stronger to claim that it's "advice". One of the issues many have with chess as a game of pure skill is the challenge of making the game more equal where there is major rating disparity
Comments.UserDisplayName: Laska
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Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-27T09:29:41.920Z
Comments.Text: @IanBush I don't think there is necessarily any bad behaviour or desire to offend here. Over-zealous arbitrage can bring the game into disrepute just as much as a shouting player. Got to look at the action itself rather than imputing any imaginary nastiness to it. I think it is potentially fun, whimsical, generous and equalizing. The higher-rated player will probably go on to win, and the lower-rated player will have a story to tell
Comments.UserDisplayName: Laska
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Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-27T10:24:34.657Z
Comments.Text: @Laska We will just have to disagree then. I just see this as showing contempt for the opponent.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ian Bush
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Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-27T14:08:08.057Z
Comments.Text: @IanBush I respect your position but disagree that this action necessarily shows contempt. We do agree that contempt is a bad thing.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Laska
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Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-28T11:44:13.230Z
Comments.Text: @Laska: OK, counterquestion: if ones opponent is blind (and therefore won't notice and hence won't be annoyed) would it be OK to show him "the finger" openly? Would that show contempt - after all, the blind opponent won't see it, no?
Comments.UserDisplayName: bakunin
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Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-28T16:50:34.520Z
Comments.Text: It would be fun to argue about the "information" rule.  By the statistical definition of information, the value a random variable (such as a die toss) contains no information.  Let the debate abound!  Of course, the ethical side of doing it in front of the other player is a different matter.  It would be interesting to see how that would play out if the stronger player *offered* to play their first move off a d20, and gave the weaker player an option.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Cort Ammon
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Comments.CreationDate: 2024-12-02T07:16:47.097Z
Comments.Text: @CortAmmon Your last suggestion sounds like a pre-game arrangement between the players, and would therefore be illegal (whether the arbiter can enforce it is another question).
Comments.UserDisplayName: Evargalo
Tags: <rules><uscf>
Title: In the USCF, is it legal to roll a 20 sided die to decide the first move?
ThreadText: # In the USCF, is it legal to roll a 20 sided die to decide the first move?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2024-11-27)
  
  At a USCF tournament I recently attended, I saw a player, facing an opponent rated 600 points lower, roll a 20 sided die to determine what their first move would be. Does anything in the rules make this illegal? Would it matter if it was done before the clocks were started, or after? (Let's assume for the sake of argument that the opponent didn't find this to be annoying or distracting in violation of rule 20G.)
  
  **Tags:** rules, uscf
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: I am not an arbiter but [The Fide Laws of Chess](https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023) Rule 11.3.1 states "During play the players are forbidden to use any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard." The die is a source of information, hence forbidden. IMO This can only really apply after the start of the game, but a quick scan of the laws doesn't give me anything to quote.  
  > **username_1**: Also IMO there is an underlying rule, one of life really, which is "Don't act like a dick" which again IMO is being broken here - so 11.1 "The players shall take no action that will bring the game of chess into disrepute." could also come into play.  
  > **username_2**: Just a comment because I know FIDE rules, not USCF rules : before the game is started, this is allowed. It might be considered disrespectful if it is done in front of the opponent, but otherwise it is just a weird kind of opening preparation, I suppose. But once the clocks are started, rule 11.3.1 of Fide Law says: "During play the players are forbidden to use any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard." The die is a source of information and advice (random information, yet information ; random advice, but adivce), so it is forbidden.  
  > **username_2**: Cross-posted with @IanBush . Thankfully, we are in agreement !  
  > **username_3**: @username_2 The word "information" has several meanings. It's a big stretch to claim that the dice is a source of "information", even stronger to claim that it's "advice". One of the issues many have with chess as a game of pure skill is the challenge of making the game more equal where there is major rating disparity  
  > **username_3**: @IanBush I don't think there is necessarily any bad behaviour or desire to offend here. Over-zealous arbitrage can bring the game into disrepute just as much as a shouting player. Got to look at the action itself rather than imputing any imaginary nastiness to it. I think it is potentially fun, whimsical, generous and equalizing. The higher-rated player will probably go on to win, and the lower-rated player will have a story to tell  
  > **username_1**: @username_3 We will just have to disagree then. I just see this as showing contempt for the opponent.  
  > **username_3**: @IanBush I respect your position but disagree that this action necessarily shows contempt. We do agree that contempt is a bad thing.  
  > **username_4**: @username_3: OK, counterquestion: if ones opponent is blind (and therefore won't notice and hence won't be annoyed) would it be OK to show him "the finger" openly? Would that show contempt - after all, the blind opponent won't see it, no?  
  > **username_5**: It would be fun to argue about the "information" rule.  By the statistical definition of information, the value a random variable (such as a die toss) contains no information.  Let the debate abound!  Of course, the ethical side of doing it in front of the other player is a different matter.  It would be interesting to see how that would play out if the stronger player *offered* to play their first move off a d20, and gave the weaker player an option.  
  > **username_2**: @CortAmmon Your last suggestion sounds like a pre-game arrangement between the players, and would therefore be illegal (whether the arbiter can enforce it is another question).  
  
  ---
  
  ## 1 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_4 on 2024-11-27. Score: 8
  
  As have been already said in comments a player is - per the [FIDE Laws of Chess](https://rcc.fide.com/fide-laws-of-chess_fulltexthtml/) not allowed to use *any* outside material or instrument to play the game.
  
  That includes not only "obviously" forbidden materials like computers, databases, books, etc., but it is even forbidden to write down anything else than the moves (and optionally the clock times) as the notation of the game on your score sheet *yourself*. Wesley So once violated that by writing slogans like "move faster" onto his scoresheet and, after being warned by the arbiter, forfeited his game.
  
  It is probably debatable if the player should be allowed to roll the dice *before* the game starts, because the aforementioned "outside help" is only forbidden *during* the game. So, the "strong player" could get away with the charade if he comes to the table, rolls the dice, only then sits down, shakes hands and starts the clock.
  
  On the other hand: the whole thing makes apparent a quite shitty attitude towards the opponent and an arbiter could - and should - act upon that, based on the [FIDE Code of Ethics](https://doc.fide.com/docs/DOC/2FC2021/Annex_6.6.1.pdf). This takes even prevalence over the Laws of chess (that is: in the unlikely event of these two contradicting each other the Code of Ethics is taking precedence).
  
  (Note: "Code of Ethics" is actually the old name, this is now "Ethics & Disciplinary Code". The given link is to the version of 2021.)
  
  If this "strong player" really wants to decide randomly upon the opening he could - silently - use all sorts of sources to decide: for instance: he could look at his watch, take the seconds, divide by three (rounded up) and you get a number between 1 and 20 too, you don't even have to tell anybody what you need this number for. To make such a production about it and make sure everybody knows about his intention is just a way of belittling his opponent. In online chess these trolls are unavoidable, in a OTB tournament just throw them out for good. A chess tournament is not the place to make good on the missing education and manners one learns in kindergarden.
  
  Post Scriptum:
  
  * **About "no belittling"**
    It came up in the comments that - since the opponent didn't object - there was no disrespect. Really? So, the next time I show the finger to some blind player that would be OK, because he hasn't seen it, yes? And if I spit into your food and you don't notice it - and therefore don't find it disgusting - that makes it somehow OK.
  
  This has nothing to do with chess, but everything with the *[contrat social](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Contract)* we all are expected to uphold. Bad manners is not what has been objected to and good manners is more than avoiding what a singular person finds annoying. If somebody doesn't know the difference: I suggest to grow up!
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_3**: There is no disrespect necessarily present in such an action. There is no belittling. Remember the opponent didn't find it annoying or distracting. I think it's cool as a kind of generous equalizer in an age where we no longer have odds games. And the numerical coincidence of 20 = 20 is pleasant as well.  
  > **username_6**: Re your first paragraph: I searched through the rules per your link, and did not find any mention of "outside" or "material", so can you perhaps point to the specific article you are referring to? 11.3.1 ("During play the players are forbidden to use any notes, sources of information or advice, or analyse any game on another chessboard.") may be relevant, but calling a die a "source of information or advice" sounds dubious. 11.5 ("It is forbidden to distract or annoy the opponent in any manner whatsoever.") may also be interesting. ...  
  > **username_6**: ... In any case, I find an argument that rolling a die is "outside material" or alternatively a "source of information or advice" and therefore forbidden a little tenuous if a few paragraphs later you apparently have no problem with using a watch to obtain the exact same kind of "information"...  
  > **username_0**: I will point out that most USCF tournaments (including the one I attended) are not FIDE rated and thus are not subject to the FIDE Laws of Chess. The USCF rules are not worded identically.  
  > **username_0**: @StephanKolassa Yes, the "no annoying/distracting the opponent" rule was a little too obvious, which is why I made the stipulation in my question that the opponent did not find it to be so. However, given that I noticed this from a couple of boards away, it could be argued that he was distracting or annoying *other* boards even if his opponent was not distracted. Of course this is mitigated by the fact that it was right at the round start where it's unlikely for nearby players to be in a deep think.  
  > **username_7**: An FM at my club did this for years, regardless of opponent (including against GMs). He meant no disrespect whatsoever, he just doesn't like opening theory. As it always happens before the very first move no arbiters cared about it, it may be considered before the start of the game.  
  
  ---
  
  