Answers.Body: <p>Just for reference: The maximum number that is actually achievable in a real game is of course when one side promotes all its pawns to queens and gets mated by a single pawn. The value would then be 9*9+2*5+4*3-1 = +102</p>
  
  <p>One possible mate:</p>
  
  <pre><code>8/8/8/8/8/RRN4k/QQQQB1pN/QQQQQ1BK w - - 0 1
  </code></pre>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-08-21T09:15:24.923Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2017-08-21T17:11:15.860Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2017-08-21T17:11:15.860Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: user1583209
Answers.Body: <p>These two are also worth 530 points. It rarely happen in games.</p>
  <p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/2vLnt.png" alt="wild hourses" /></p>
  <p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/7iwsm.png" alt="check mate" /></p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-12-02T18:16:53.290Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2021-12-02T21:25:09.500Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2021-12-02T21:25:09.500Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Peter Lendero
Answers.Body: <pre><code>[FEN "QQQQQbBk/QQQQQBQB/QQQQQRBK/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ b - - 0 1"]
  
  1... Bxg7
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>I'm getting +518 for this.</p>
  
  <p>That could be improved to +520 if we allow a black pawn on the 8th rank instead of the bishop, since this position is obviously already impossible for a number of other reasons.</p>
  
  <p>Edit:
  Found a better one.</p>
  
  <pre><code>QQQQQQNk/QQQQQQNp/QQQQQQKN/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ b - - 0 1
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>This is +530.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-08-20T17:39:39.397Z
Answers.Text: Fantastic, i think this is the maximum
Answers.UserDisplayName: MonkeyBusiness
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-08-20T17:45:07.890Z
Answers.Text: This is the perfect example to illustrate to new chess learners that material is not the most important thing in chess, it is all about the king
Answers.UserDisplayName: MonkeyBusiness
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-08-21T10:04:42.970Z
Answers.Text: Isn't this impossible to acheive though? I mean, ignoring that the max number of queens is 9, the pawn is in a position where it has not moved throughout the whole game. Therefore, how has the king been moved there? Obviously we can just wave it off as "it's an impossible situation anyway so it doesn't matter" but just wanted to point it out.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Aric
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-08-21T14:36:46.133Z
Answers.Text: Yes, there are a number of things that make the situation impossible, including that every square on the board is filled, so *no* previous moves could have been played.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Cleveland
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2017-08-20T17:17:04.060Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2017-08-20T20:04:11.433Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2017-08-20T20:04:11.433Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Cleveland
Body: <p>Assuming: Queen=9, Rook=5, Bishop=3, Knight=3, Pawn=1</p>
  
  <p>The below position is evaluated at +411 for White but he still loses by force (mate in 9, pawn promotes to a bishop just for the fun of it)</p>
  
  <p>Is that the maximum possible material advantage while still losing? Can you find a position with more than 411 material advantage and still lose?</p>
  
  <p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/mJKXR.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/mJKXR.png" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-20T16:58:10.253Z
Comments.Text: Looks like the e2 and e1 rooks could be queens instead?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Cleveland
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-20T16:59:12.273Z
Comments.Text: Also, knight=5 and bishop=5 are very odd values and border on flat-out wrong. 3 would be closer to the common (although imperfect) values for each.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Cleveland
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-20T17:06:17.373Z
Comments.Text: I have placed queens on e1 and e2 instead of rooks as suggested by @Cleveland and the evaluation is now +411
Comments.UserDisplayName: MonkeyBusiness
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-20T20:11:31.853Z
Comments.Text: All of these positions are beyond absurd though, there's not even room for a previous move to have happened.
Comments.UserDisplayName: RemcoGerlich
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-21T07:31:48.780Z
Comments.Text: How exactly is this a mate in 9? (unless White assists heavily)
Comments.UserDisplayName: Annatar
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-21T14:44:29.590Z
Comments.Text: @Annatar 1... fxg5 2. Kg7 gxh4 3. Kf6 hxg3 4. Kg7 gxh2 5. Kh8 hxg1=B 6. Kg7 Bh2 7. Kh8 Bg3 8. Kg7 Bh4 9. Kh8 Bf6#. It doesn't matter which of f6 and h8 the white king chooses, because it always ends up on g7 when the black bishop is on h4 and is forced to h8 the next move.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Cleveland
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2017-08-22T06:00:54.217Z
Comments.Text: @Cleveland Ah, my bad. I somehow assumed the pawn is moving in the other direction ;p
Comments.UserDisplayName: Annatar
Tags: <problems><mathematics>
Title: Biggest Possible Material Advantage But Still Losing
ThreadText: # Biggest Possible Material Advantage But Still Losing
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2017-08-20)
  
  Assuming: Queen=9, Rook=5, Bishop=3, Knight=3, Pawn=1
  
  The below position is evaluated at +411 for White but he still loses by force (mate in 9, pawn promotes to a bishop just for the fun of it)
  
  Is that the maximum possible material advantage while still losing? Can you find a position with more than 411 material advantage and still lose?
  
  [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/mJKXR.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/mJKXR.png)
  
  **Tags:** problems, mathematics
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Looks like the e2 and e1 rooks could be queens instead?  
  > **username_1**: Also, knight=5 and bishop=5 are very odd values and border on flat-out wrong. 3 would be closer to the common (although imperfect) values for each.  
  > **username_0**: I have placed queens on e1 and e2 instead of rooks as suggested by @username_1 and the evaluation is now +411  
  > **username_2**: All of these positions are beyond absurd though, there's not even room for a previous move to have happened.  
  > **username_3**: How exactly is this a mate in 9? (unless White assists heavily)  
  > **username_1**: @username_3 1... fxg5 2. Kg7 gxh4 3. Kf6 hxg3 4. Kg7 gxh2 5. Kh8 hxg1=B 6. Kg7 Bh2 7. Kh8 Bg3 8. Kg7 Bh4 9. Kh8 Bf6#. It doesn't matter which of f6 and h8 the white king chooses, because it always ends up on g7 when the black bishop is on h4 and is forced to h8 the next move.  
  > **username_3**: @username_1 Ah, my bad. I somehow assumed the pawn is moving in the other direction ;p  
  
  ---
  
  ## 3 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2017-08-20. Score: 11 | Accepted answer
  
  [FEN "QQQQQbBk/QQQQQBQB/QQQQQRBK/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ b - - 0 1"]
  
  1... Bxg7
  
  I'm getting +518 for this.
  That could be improved to +520 if we allow a black pawn on the 8th rank instead of the bishop, since this position is obviously already impossible for a number of other reasons.
  Edit:
  Found a better one.
  QQQQQQNk/QQQQQQNp/QQQQQQKN/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ/QQQQQQQQ b - - 0 1
  
  This is +530.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: Fantastic, i think this is the maximum  
  > **username_0**: This is the perfect example to illustrate to new chess learners that material is not the most important thing in chess, it is all about the king  
  > **username_6**: Isn't this impossible to acheive though? I mean, ignoring that the max number of queens is 9, the pawn is in a position where it has not moved throughout the whole game. Therefore, how has the king been moved there? Obviously we can just wave it off as "it's an impossible situation anyway so it doesn't matter" but just wanted to point it out.  
  > **username_1**: Yes, there are a number of things that make the situation impossible, including that every square on the board is filled, so *no* previous moves could have been played.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_4 on 2017-08-21. Score: 11
  
  Just for reference: The maximum number that is actually achievable in a real game is of course when one side promotes all its pawns to queens and gets mated by a single pawn. The value would then be 9*9+2*5+4*3-1 = +102
  One possible mate:
  8/8/8/8/8/RRN4k/QQQQB1pN/QQQQQ1BK w - - 0 1
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_5 on 2021-12-02. Score: 1
  
  These two are also worth 530 points. It rarely happen in games.
  
  ![wild hourses](https://i.sstatic.net/2vLnt.png)
  
  ![check mate](https://i.sstatic.net/7iwsm.png)
  
  
  ---
  
  