Answers.Body: <p>This (relatively well-known) position is very imbalanced by most definitions, but should be equal in the sense that 32-piece tablebases will say this is drawn. In real life both humans and engines are likely to win and lose games from here, which is why it was played in the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCEC_Season_14#Game_85" rel="nofollow noreferrer">TCEC Season 14, game 85</a>.*</p>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;&quot;]
  1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 O-O 6. Be3 e5 7. d5 Nh5 8. Qd2 Qh4+ 9. g3 Nxg3 10. Qf2 Nxf1 11. Qxh4 Nxe3 12. Ke2 Nxc4 
  </code></pre>
  <p>Black sacrifices a queen for two bishops, two pawns, better pawn structure, and better king safety.</p>
  <p>*At least, they used to win and lose games from here. These days Stockfish 16 evaluates the position at +0.7 (d = 33), which is not especially high, so there's a good chance it will draw the position against itself - which is the basis for me saying 32-piece tablebases will say it's drawn.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-11-21T18:26:02.393Z
Answers.Text: Nice position! I'll accept this answer when I see that 32-piece tablebase :)
Answers.UserDisplayName: Hank's back rank
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-11-23T04:11:39.470Z
Answers.Text: Looks like the 27-piece tablebase should suffice.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-11-21T05:41:40.097Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2023-11-21T05:41:40.097Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Allure
Answers.Body: <p>I think this game should satify the requirement. This is opening of the game from round 06-05 between Giri Anish and Carlsen Magnus from the Meltwater Champions Chess Tour Finals 2021 on Chess.com.</p>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;&quot;]
  1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 e6 4. O-O Nge7 5. d4 cxd4 6. Nxd4 Qb6 7. Be3 Nxd4 8.a4 Nxb5 9. Bxb6 axb6 10.Nd2 Nd6 *
  </code></pre>
  <p>Black gave up his queen for a knight and two bishops, a value of 9 for both players in theory. The Stockfish gives a score of +1.09 for this position, a slight advantage for white.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-11-21T04:20:10.033Z
Answers.Text: Ah yes, I remember this game. This is a very interesting position and certainly also quite imbalanced, though it is only a material imbalance.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Hank's back rank
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-11-19T02:23:03.250Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2023-11-19T02:32:08.360Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2023-11-19T02:32:08.360Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Swafim
Answers.Body: <p>This is (one from the set of) <a href="https://lichess.org/analysis/k7/b1K1n3/1P1n3r/8/2b4q/8/2qr1q2/q1qqqqq1_w_-_-_0_1?color=white#0" rel="nofollow noreferrer">the most materially imbalanced position</a> that is possible in chess. Black is up 102 points of material (all 8 pawns have promoted), yet it's an equal position with White to move.</p>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;k7/b1K1n3/1P1n3r/8/2b4q/8/2qr1q2/q1qqqqq1 w - - 0 1&quot;]
  </code></pre>
  <p>White has multiple moves. The only drawing move for White is to sacrifice the last material that he got, in order to end up in a position down 103 points of material - but stalemated.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-11-22T23:59:53.460Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2023-11-22T23:59:53.460Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Hauptideal
Body: <p>I recently found this beautiful position, <a href="https://www.chessprogramming.org/The_Nolot_Suite" rel="noreferrer">Position 11</a> where White sacrifices a bunch of material and then there are a bunch of crazy variations that all end in draws. For example this variation which leads to an extremely imbalanced position:</p>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;r1b3k1/p2p1nP1/2pqr1Rp/1p2p2P/2B1PnQ1/1P6/P1PP4/1K4R1 w - - 0 1&quot;]
  
  1. Rxh6 Nxh6 2. Qg5 Nf7 3. Qd8+ Nxd8 4. h6 Qd4 5. h7+ Kf7 6. g8=Q+ Ke7 7. h8=Q Kd6 {This is the super imbalanced but drawn position I'm interested in.} (7. Rg7+ {This is the first move that's not forced.} Kd6)
  </code></pre>
  <p>So my question is are there any even more imbalanced but still equal positions?</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-10-29T00:38:16.620Z
Comments.Text: One could build one with White having lots of queens and Black is stalemated.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ross Millikan
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-10-29T02:24:31.880Z
Comments.Text: That was an obvious solution that I thought of but I'm more interested in positions where there isn't just an immediate stalemate or simple repetition of some sort.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Hank's back rank
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-10-29T02:33:52.843Z
Comments.Text: That is an easy requirement to state and hard to define rigorously.  You can put a lot of material in jail then set up a perpetual check on another part of the board.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ross Millikan
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-10-29T11:11:13.923Z
Comments.Text: Can you define "inbalanced"? Are you only interested in positions from real games or also from compositions?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Evargalo
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-10-29T17:37:09.930Z
Comments.Text: I'm interested in both, except for compositions I'm only interested in ones that satisfy the conditions I stated earlier. To reply to @RossMillikan, it may be hard to rigorously define what I said but I think most users can understand what I mean. Oh, and also, by imbalanced I mean the position has large differences between both sides in some sort of advantage (space, material, activity, king-safety, etc.).
Comments.UserDisplayName: Hank's back rank
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-10-29T18:10:17.683Z
Comments.Text: [The immortal draw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Draw) is an easy one
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ian Bush
Tags: <analysis><problems>
Title: Most imbalanced (but equal) chess position?
ThreadText: # Most imbalanced (but equal) chess position?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2023-10-29)
  
  I recently found this beautiful position, Position 11 where White sacrifices a bunch of material and then there are a bunch of crazy variations that all end in draws. For example this variation which leads to an extremely imbalanced position:
  [FEN "r1b3k1/p2p1nP1/2pqr1Rp/1p2p2P/2B1PnQ1/1P6/P1PP4/1K4R1 w - - 0 1"]
  
  1. Rxh6 Nxh6 2. Qg5 Nf7 3. Qd8+ Nxd8 4. h6 Qd4 5. h7+ Kf7 6. g8=Q+ Ke7 7. h8=Q Kd6 {This is the super imbalanced but drawn position I'm interested in.} (7. Rg7+ {This is the first move that's not forced.} Kd6)
  
  So my question is are there any even more imbalanced but still equal positions?
  
  **Tags:** analysis, problems
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: One could build one with White having lots of queens and Black is stalemated.  
  > **username_0**: That was an obvious solution that I thought of but I'm more interested in positions where there isn't just an immediate stalemate or simple repetition of some sort.  
  > **username_1**: That is an easy requirement to state and hard to define rigorously.  You can put a lot of material in jail then set up a perpetual check on another part of the board.  
  > **username_2**: Can you define "inbalanced"? Are you only interested in positions from real games or also from compositions?  
  > **username_0**: I'm interested in both, except for compositions I'm only interested in ones that satisfy the conditions I stated earlier. To reply to @RossMillikan, it may be hard to rigorously define what I said but I think most users can understand what I mean. Oh, and also, by imbalanced I mean the position has large differences between both sides in some sort of advantage (space, material, activity, king-safety, etc.).  
  > **username_3**: [The immortal draw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_Draw) is an easy one  
  
  ---
  
  ## 3 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_4 on 2023-11-21. Score: 1 | Accepted answer
  
  This (relatively well-known) position is very imbalanced by most definitions, but should be equal in the sense that 32-piece tablebases will say this is drawn. In real life both humans and engines are likely to win and lose games from here, which is why it was played in the TCEC Season 14, game 85.*
  [FEN ""]
  1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. f3 O-O 6. Be3 e5 7. d5 Nh5 8. Qd2 Qh4+ 9. g3 Nxg3 10. Qf2 Nxf1 11. Qxh4 Nxe3 12. Ke2 Nxc4 
  
  Black sacrifices a queen for two bishops, two pawns, better pawn structure, and better king safety.
  *At least, they used to win and lose games from here. These days Stockfish 16 evaluates the position at +0.7 (d = 33), which is not especially high, so there's a good chance it will draw the position against itself - which is the basis for me saying 32-piece tablebases will say it's drawn.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: Nice position! I'll accept this answer when I see that 32-piece tablebase :)  
  > **username_5**: Looks like the 27-piece tablebase should suffice.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_6 on 2023-11-19. Score: 1
  
  I think this game should satify the requirement. This is opening of the game from round 06-05 between Giri Anish and Carlsen Magnus from the Meltwater Champions Chess Tour Finals 2021 on Chess.com.
  [FEN ""]
  1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 e6 4. O-O Nge7 5. d4 cxd4 6. Nxd4 Qb6 7. Be3 Nxd4 8.a4 Nxb5 9. Bxb6 axb6 10.Nd2 Nd6 *
  
  Black gave up his queen for a knight and two bishops, a value of 9 for both players in theory. The Stockfish gives a score of +1.09 for this position, a slight advantage for white.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: Ah yes, I remember this game. This is a very interesting position and certainly also quite imbalanced, though it is only a material imbalance.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_7 on 2023-11-22. Score: 0
  
  This is (one from the set of) the most materially imbalanced position that is possible in chess. Black is up 102 points of material (all 8 pawns have promoted), yet it's an equal position with White to move.
  [FEN "k7/b1K1n3/1P1n3r/8/2b4q/8/2qr1q2/q1qqqqq1 w - - 0 1"]
  
  White has multiple moves. The only drawing move for White is to sacrifice the last material that he got, in order to end up in a position down 103 points of material - but stalemated.
  
  
  ---
  
  