Answers.Body: <p>I've done a lot of analysis on this line. At one time I almost sat down and wrote out a complete refutation for the entire line with the intent of publishing it online. I got stuck on the line 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 h6 4. d4 exd4 5. c3 dxc3 6. Nxc3 Bb4 7. O-O Bxc3 8. bxc3 Nge7 though. In my opinion this is black's only chance at equality. I think white is still better but the advantage is small and it's impossible to prove an advantage through analysis. Still I've won a ton of games with 9. Nh4. White has other options at move 9 and the advantage of the two bishops combined with a lead in development so proving equality with black is probably equally impossible. </p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-06-02T09:46:50.343Z
Answers.Text: 5.Nxd4 and White has a solid durable advantage
Answers.UserDisplayName: David
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-06-02T05:58:08.747Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2020-06-02T05:58:08.747Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Savage47
Answers.Body: <p><em>3...h6 is not a mistake, but it's certainly not the best move in the position.</em></p>
  
  <p>In the opening, one of your goals is to develop your pieces, and ...h6 doesn't do this. The only point of ...h6 seems to be to avoid the line 3...Nf6 4.Ng5, but this line is not dangerous to black at all. Play can continue 4...d5 5.exd5 Na5, and black will have good compensation for his pawn in this well known line.</p>
  
  <p>The reason you may experience difficulties as black after 3...h6 is because you don't achieve any activity with h6, and you let white take control over the center with 4.d4. This is a Scotch Game / Scotch Gambit where white has the useful move Bc4, while black has the much less useful h6. </p>
  
  <p>Thus, you should not play 3...h6 as black, but instead either 3...Nf6 or 3...Bc5 as black, which take control of the center and activate your pieces. These openings, the 2 knights (Nf6) and Giucco (Bc5) are very solid openings for black. </p>
  
  <p>Finally, even though a GM used to experiment with this line, it doesn't mean you should play it. Hikaru has played an early 3.Qh5 before in open games (1.e4 e5), but that doesn't make the move good. If black responds properly, white will have no chance to secure an opening advantage. While Hikaru can outplay many GMs even in worse positions, for non-master players, there's no reason to play a sub-optimal opening that has no surprise value (unlike 1.b4 or 1.g4, which can catch opponents off-guard). Thus, one of 3...Bc5 or 3...Nf6 is what you should do. </p>
  
  <p>*If you are set on playing 3...h6, then you will have to accept a slightly worse position as black. He has wasted time with h6, and gives white an opening edge. An awkward queen might be one of these problems. </p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-05-15T08:22:23.223Z
Answers.Text: I meant to avoid Nf6 against black actually, things may get bad with night eyeing on g5, then f7, no?
Answers.UserDisplayName: Sollosa
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-05-15T10:22:34.453Z
Answers.Text: As Alex explained in his good answer, the Ng5xf7 maneuver is nothing to fear.  As White, I can already see plans of a kingside attack based upon the easily attackable h6 pawn.  If you want to avoid Ng5, play Be7 first, then you can castle before the f7 pawn is attacked.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Mike Jones
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-05-15T22:13:09.840Z
Answers.Text: Click "...d5 the main line" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Knights_Defense#4...d5_.28the_main_line.29   . You'll find some very nice variations to deal with people who like to play Ng5 early.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Harambe17
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-05-17T22:44:40.847Z
Answers.Text: @Sollosa 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 is OK for Black, but maybe not to your taste. Still no reason to play 3...h6. Instead play 3...Bc5 and 4...Nf6, and if White plays 5.Ng5 you just castle and everything is fine. Alternatively you can play 3...Be7 or 3...d6.
Answers.UserDisplayName: bof
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-05-23T16:04:05.727Z
Answers.Text: As a player of 4.Ng5 myself, I'll just tell you that as Black you'd better know exactly what to do after 4....d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Qf3, because the "natural" responses 8...Bb7 and 8...Bd7 are not the best (for Black).
Answers.UserDisplayName: Jeff Y
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2016-05-24T10:44:08.010Z
Answers.Text: Hi Jeff, one very viable way for black to forego the Qf3 move is to play 6...Bd7, which gives black a good game, and chances of regaining the pawn.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Harambe17
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-07-31T00:00:01.820Z
Answers.Text: I would certainly not call the Two Knights Defense "solid" since 4. Ng5 leads to highly tactical positions. If you are hoping for a quiet positional game you should play Bc5.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Allure
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Harambe17
Body: <p>After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 h6 4. d4:</p>
  
  <pre><code>[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 h6 4. d4
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>What is the best answer to avoid pile up of opponent pieces in the center as black? Especially after Nc3 and 0-0, this position sometimes gets awkward as it's difficult for the black queen to find a suitable square that both defends the king and attacks the opponent. </p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2016-05-14T22:27:40.487Z
Comments.Text: 3... h6? Seriously, who are you playing against?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Glorfindel
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2016-05-15T00:10:21.420Z
Comments.Text: "What is the best answer to avoid pile up of opponent pieces in the centre? Namely, Nc3 & 0-0. " This is very difficult to understand what you mean. Are you after ideas for White or for Black? Also, no need to rush ...h6 in these lines. Bg5 from White is not the end of the world for black. Develop the light pieces and castle first, let the queen stay on d8 until it's easier to determine where it should go.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Scounged
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2016-05-15T00:25:24.873Z
Comments.Text: Grandmaster Blatny experimented with `3... h6` in the 90's.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Dag Oskar Madsen
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2016-05-15T08:16:44.417Z
Comments.Text: @Glorfindel h6 is a mistake? I think not, whole idea is to stop the night to jump on g5 square, then it can attack f7, takin a pawn & forkin rook & queen. I hope I'm clear now.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Sollosa
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 3.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2016-05-17T18:23:45.480Z
Comments.Text: I've tried to make your question clearer by editing it. Please feel free to re-edit if I've misunderstood what you're asking.
Comments.UserDisplayName: DTR
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2018-08-04T13:14:50.777Z
Comments.Text: @Sollosa  You're jumping at ghosts.  There is no need to play 3...h6 out of fear of a fork on f7.  This is easily avoided with normal developing moves.  e.g. 3... Bc5 (Queen controls g5) 4.d3 Nf6 5.Ng5 O-O.
Comments.UserDisplayName: foiwofjwej
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-06-02T09:44:00.317Z
Comments.Text: The best answer is to politely ask your opponent if you can take back 3..h6
Comments.UserDisplayName: David
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-06-02T09:45:01.363Z
Comments.Text: @Sollosa you can prevent the knight jump with 3...Be7 which is a better move, or just play 3...Bc5 and make it a non-threat
Comments.UserDisplayName: David
Tags: <learning><1.e4><italian-game>
Title: Best reply against the Italian Game after 3...h6 4. d4?
ThreadText: # Best reply against the Italian Game after 3...h6 4. d4?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2016-05-14)
  
  After 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 h6 4. d4:
  [FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
  1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 h6 4. d4
  
  What is the best answer to avoid pile up of opponent pieces in the center as black? Especially after Nc3 and 0-0, this position sometimes gets awkward as it's difficult for the black queen to find a suitable square that both defends the king and attacks the opponent.
  
  **Tags:** learning, 1.e4, italian-game
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: 3... h6? Seriously, who are you playing against?  
  > **username_2**: "What is the best answer to avoid pile up of opponent pieces in the centre? Namely, Nc3 & 0-0. " This is very difficult to understand what you mean. Are you after ideas for White or for Black? Also, no need to rush ...h6 in these lines. Bg5 from White is not the end of the world for black. Develop the light pieces and castle first, let the queen stay on d8 until it's easier to determine where it should go.  
  > **username_3**: Grandmaster Blatny experimented with `3... h6` in the 90's.  
  > **username_0**: @username_1 h6 is a mistake? I think not, whole idea is to stop the night to jump on g5 square, then it can attack f7, takin a pawn & forkin rook & queen. I hope I'm clear now.  
  > **username_4**: I've tried to make your question clearer by editing it. Please feel free to re-edit if I've misunderstood what you're asking.  
  > **username_5**: @username_0  You're jumping at ghosts.  There is no need to play 3...h6 out of fear of a fork on f7.  This is easily avoided with normal developing moves.  e.g. 3... Bc5 (Queen controls g5) 4.d3 Nf6 5.Ng5 O-O.  
  > **username_6**: The best answer is to politely ask your opponent if you can take back 3..h6  
  > **username_6**: @username_0 you can prevent the knight jump with 3...Be7 which is a better move, or just play 3...Bc5 and make it a non-threat  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_8 on 2016-05-15. Score: 8 | Accepted answer
  
  *3...h6 is not a mistake, but it's certainly not the best move in the position.*
  
  In the opening, one of your goals is to develop your pieces, and ...h6 doesn't do this. The only point of ...h6 seems to be to avoid the line 3...Nf6 4.Ng5, but this line is not dangerous to black at all. Play can continue 4...d5 5.exd5 Na5, and black will have good compensation for his pawn in this well known line.
  
  The reason you may experience difficulties as black after 3...h6 is because you don't achieve any activity with h6, and you let white take control over the center with 4.d4. This is a Scotch Game / Scotch Gambit where white has the useful move Bc4, while black has the much less useful h6.
  
  Thus, you should not play 3...h6 as black, but instead either 3...Nf6 or 3...Bc5 as black, which take control of the center and activate your pieces. These openings, the 2 knights (Nf6) and Giucco (Bc5) are very solid openings for black.
  
  Finally, even though a GM used to experiment with this line, it doesn't mean you should play it. Hikaru has played an early 3.Qh5 before in open games (1.e4 e5), but that doesn't make the move good. If black responds properly, white will have no chance to secure an opening advantage. While Hikaru can outplay many GMs even in worse positions, for non-master players, there's no reason to play a sub-optimal opening that has no surprise value (unlike 1.b4 or 1.g4, which can catch opponents off-guard). Thus, one of 3...Bc5 or 3...Nf6 is what you should do.
  
  \*If you are set on playing 3...h6, then you will have to accept a slightly worse position as black. He has wasted time with h6, and gives white an opening edge. An awkward queen might be one of these problems.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: I meant to avoid Nf6 against black actually, things may get bad with night eyeing on g5, then f7, no?  
  > **username_9**: As Alex explained in his good answer, the Ng5xf7 maneuver is nothing to fear.  As White, I can already see plans of a kingside attack based upon the easily attackable h6 pawn.  If you want to avoid Ng5, play Be7 first, then you can castle before the f7 pawn is attacked.  
  > **username_8**: Click "...d5 the main line" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Knights_Defense#4...d5_.28the_main_line.29   . You'll find some very nice variations to deal with people who like to play Ng5 early.  
  > **username_10**: @username_0 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 is OK for Black, but maybe not to your taste. Still no reason to play 3...h6. Instead play 3...Bc5 and 4...Nf6, and if White plays 5.Ng5 you just castle and everything is fine. Alternatively you can play 3...Be7 or 3...d6.  
  > **username_11**: As a player of 4.Ng5 myself, I'll just tell you that as Black you'd better know exactly what to do after 4....d5 5.exd5 Na5 6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Qf3, because the "natural" responses 8...Bb7 and 8...Bd7 are not the best (for Black).  
  > **username_8**: Hi Jeff, one very viable way for black to forego the Qf3 move is to play 6...Bd7, which gives black a good game, and chances of regaining the pawn.  
  > **username_12**: I would certainly not call the Two Knights Defense "solid" since 4. Ng5 leads to highly tactical positions. If you are hoping for a quiet positional game you should play Bc5.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_7 on 2020-06-02. Score: 0
  
  I've done a lot of analysis on this line. At one time I almost sat down and wrote out a complete refutation for the entire line with the intent of publishing it online. I got stuck on the line 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 h6 4. d4 exd4 5. c3 dxc3 6. Nxc3 Bb4 7. O-O Bxc3 8. bxc3 Nge7 though. In my opinion this is black's only chance at equality. I think white is still better but the advantage is small and it's impossible to prove an advantage through analysis. Still I've won a ton of games with 9. Nh4. White has other options at move 9 and the advantage of the two bishops combined with a lead in development so proving equality with black is probably equally impossible.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_6**: 5.Nxd4 and White has a solid durable advantage  
  
  ---
  
  