Answers.Body: <p>To play a position, an engine is usually given a search depth. Arena always does this. Probably in your case the search depth was set to a limited number of nodes. You can check this by keying in CTRL+L. The adjust level box pops in. There, you can see how the depth was specified, whether a time limit, a nodes limit, a search depth limit or an infinite depth.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-12-26T02:20:41.427Z
Answers.Text: No, you are misunderstanding. There is a Node cap in Stockfish_10_x64. This means it cannot analyze beyond that point. It's capped. I need an engine that is not capped. Stockfish_10_x64 is supposed to be the best out there right now. Why put a cap on how many nodes it can search? This doesnt make sense to me, unless the Stockfish Team truly does not want the public to have any version of Stockfish_10_x64 that has no limits. Because, as it is now, Stockfish_10_x64 is extremely crippled by this limitation: which further cripples my study in depth.
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-12-26T02:38:00.817Z
Answers.Text: It does not allow me to play according to a search depth beyond the Nodes Cap that I am referring to. Maybe I am not wording it correctly. I apologize. I am terrified of public speaking, and trying to overcome it. I am nervous here. It plainly says, "After this number of nodes the search will be terminated"
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-12-26T03:42:29.720Z
Answers.Text: You are right, capping Stockfish is something non-sense. It is not capped. "unless the Stockfish Team truly does not want the public to have any version of Stockfish_10_x64 that has no limits" Stockfish is open source. If it was capped then anyone can easily edit the source code to allow it to search infinitely. Did you check the answer above? If so, then it is a problem with the Arena you are using. Arena should let you choose the search depth of the engine it is using.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Wais Kamal
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-12-26T03:43:09.847Z
Answers.Text: Can you provide the number of nodes where Stockfish stops analysing, i.e. the maximum number of nodes reached?
Answers.UserDisplayName: Wais Kamal
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-12-26T18:38:56.780Z
Answers.Text: Hello and yes here is that number: 2147399999
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-12-26T18:46:47.467Z
Answers.Text: I need to make something very clear I never said Stockfish_10_x64 stops analyzing. I say this because you said "Can you provide the number of nodes where Stockfish stops analysing". It will analyze orthodox lines before the Node cap is reached, or rather up to that point of where the cap ends how many Nodes can be analyzed. So its not that analyzation stops completely: rather that it cannot go any further due to the Node cap that stops it.
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-12-28T16:57:48.473Z
Answers.Text: We cannot search beyond the node cap, or "nodes limit" using your wording.
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-12-29T10:45:33.950Z
Answers.Text: Sorry for saying this, but I cannot reproduce the problem. [Here](https://i.sstatic.net/U6f0b.png) is a screenshot with Stockfish 10 64-bit analyzing the starting position in Arena, where it reached 6,476,933,128 nodes.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Wais Kamal
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T00:02:06.010Z
Answers.Text: Hello, I hope you had a good New Years. To reproduce what I am seeing, follow these steps exactly (unless you discover a faster way through shortcuts to get to the final result I am seeing). Step #1) [After Arena is opened, and you already have Stockfish_10_x64 loaded] click "levels" at top. Step 2) Click "Adjust" Step 3) Click Nodes Step 4) Enter Node amount of 2147399999 (this is the highest node amount you can save after entering). Step 5) Click "Okay"
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T00:12:36.217Z
Answers.Text: Now that you have done the steps I listed: start any game from your mind or any opening book etc. regardless of the amount of moves made choose a time to click the "Analyze" button. Now allow it to analyze. Be sure to watch what happens when it gets to 2.147.399.999 Nodes! In my case it went past the amount of Nodes I entered. It confused me at first till I looked deeper into the lines it was searching through. The lines it was searching through was the lines it previously searched through to get to the Nodes Cap number!!
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T00:22:44.710Z
Answers.Text: What this taught me is there is no real Pruning taking place of the move trees to the effective degree that stops this: what I have labeled "The Node Loop"! It also taught me that any Node searched beyond the amount of 2.147.399.999 Nodes are NOT new lines. rather they are lines that have already been searched through and allegedly (or rather supposed to have been Pruned away).
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T00:22:54.207Z
Answers.Text: Yet whether there is any pruning taking place or not taking place behind the scenes within the coding itself, the fact remains that any Node searched through (looked at proverbially speaking) beyond the Node Cap are not new lines and the Node count you are seeing that is above 2.147.399.999 Nodes are nothing more than what it has previously searched through!
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T00:29:37.417Z
Answers.Text: If my observation is somehow flawed or I am reaching a false conclusion then please explain to me how it is flawed or false in such a way that I can prove it to myself with 'data-numbers-formulas-results' otherwise I am left to presume the Nodes Cap exists even in "infinite analysis mode: due to the fact that I could not discover any "new lines" via that method. Yet what I am seeing is old lines regurgitated in that "Node Loop" I was speaking about.
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T00:44:01.477Z
Answers.Text: I am now left to draw from a few theoretical conclusions from all of this. 1) Analyze mode bypasses any Node amount entered when seeking to play by Node Count (Yet if this were true we would see new lines discovered and not old lines gone over and over and over again, which should have already been pruned away and discarded and not counted more than once per tree variation) 2) The Node Loop I am seeing directly effects the line of sight to/in Depth, due to the Loop taking place within the illegitimate pruning of the lines to/in Width. cont...
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T00:49:16.260Z
Answers.Text: ...cont 3) The Nodes Cap is the highest number of Nodes we are able to set Stockfish_10_x64 engine to: since it seems that when the search gets to this range (long before, slightly before, at/or slightly after) the engine makes its move [applies to engine against engine and/or engine against human modes {no move ever being made by the engine in analyze mode}].
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T00:56:51.263Z
Answers.Text: So there is indeed a Node Cap to how many Nodes can be searched through before the engine makes a move selection: as I have proven with 2.147.399.999 Nodes. Aside from the obvious question to me of whether or not all the nodes that lead up to that Node Cap are indeed new and different lines (which I have so far concluded are not new lines at all) the issue of why there is a cap to begin with stunts my ability to reason it through or come to any logical conclusions other than it has been purposefully capped for some reason unknown to me (and I have not found ANY website in any (cont...)
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T00:57:41.127Z
Answers.Text: (...cont) country that speaks of this in partial or depth as to why the cap is there).
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T01:11:36.223Z
Answers.Text: One other note worth mentioning here is the "Node Cap" I am referring to is at both the low end and high end of what we are allowed to enter: The lowest being "1000000 Nodes". So after all this writing I am left to ask WHY is Stockfish_10_x64 capped when playing by amount of Nodes?!!
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T06:54:08.160Z
Answers.Text: Of course when you set the level to a number of nodes it will stop at that number **while playing**, and **not while analyzing**. The number of nodes you see in there is the total number of possible positions up to the given depth. This includes **all** positions, whether pruned or not. You state that as it goes further it investigates the lines it had 
  already pruned out. This is not the case. If it was then the depth would stay the same upon reaching that number of nodes. The depth of 42 in my screenshot would't have been reached if your reasoning was true.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Wais Kamal
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-02T06:54:55.310Z
Answers.Text: I suggest you integrate all of the above information in the question. It is a part of the question and future readers my look for your question when they encounter the same scenario.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Wais Kamal
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-09T05:09:44.070Z
Answers.Text: Then please explain why there is a Node Cap. I appreciate all you are saying yet you are not addressing the Node Cap/
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-01-09T05:14:19.440Z
Answers.Text: Also according to the movelist I am able to see.. it is indeed looping back over movelists it already looked at:adding to the value of the alleged Depth/Node Cap Value. I have just recently also discovered what appears to be a Depth Cap as well.
Answers.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2018-12-25T15:39:35.737Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2018-12-25T15:39:35.737Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Wais Kamal
Body: <p>I discovered something quite unusual when working with stockfish 10 chess engine in arena. The discovery leads me to ask: Why does Stockfish_10_x64 have a Node Cap when searching moves based upon amount of Nodes used? </p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2018-12-23T23:54:21.853Z
Comments.Text: Can you please describe your problem more in details?
Comments.UserDisplayName: SmallChess
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2018-12-25T01:51:48.687Z
Comments.Text: How else can I say this without sounding irritating or upsetting to anyone here.. I am not very good at communicating. I am trying to overcome my shyness in something I discovered that's very problematic to such a degree my pursuit of chess depth study is greatly diminished due to the issue I raised. Stockfish_10_x64 has a Node cap: I was searching for an answer as to why it has a Node cap. i also Noticed that Infinite analysis also seems to NOT be infinite due to this same issue.
Comments.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2018-12-25T15:34:06.193Z
Comments.Text: Don't be shy, we are here to help regardless of language. Can you please state an example of a  board position which stockfish analysed to a certain depth rather than infinitely?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Wais Kamal
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2018-12-26T02:25:33.647Z
Comments.Text: The Node cap limitation comes before any position is arrived at. The position cannot be gotten to unless 'that proverbial position' exists long before the cap is reached. Would it help if i explained how to find the Node cap?
Comments.UserDisplayName: JasperGems
Tags: <engines>
Title: Node Cap for Stockfish
ThreadText: # Node Cap for Stockfish
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2018-12-23)
  
  I discovered something quite unusual when working with stockfish 10 chess engine in arena. The discovery leads me to ask: Why does Stockfish\_10\_x64 have a Node Cap when searching moves based upon amount of Nodes used?
  
  **Tags:** engines
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Can you please describe your problem more in details?  
  > **username_0**: How else can I say this without sounding irritating or upsetting to anyone here.. I am not very good at communicating. I am trying to overcome my shyness in something I discovered that's very problematic to such a degree my pursuit of chess depth study is greatly diminished due to the issue I raised. Stockfish_10_x64 has a Node cap: I was searching for an answer as to why it has a Node cap. i also Noticed that Infinite analysis also seems to NOT be infinite due to this same issue.  
  > **username_2**: Don't be shy, we are here to help regardless of language. Can you please state an example of a  board position which stockfish analysed to a certain depth rather than infinitely?  
  > **username_0**: The Node cap limitation comes before any position is arrived at. The position cannot be gotten to unless 'that proverbial position' exists long before the cap is reached. Would it help if i explained how to find the Node cap?  
  
  ---
  
  ## 1 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2018-12-25. Score: 1
  
  To play a position, an engine is usually given a search depth. Arena always does this. Probably in your case the search depth was set to a limited number of nodes. You can check this by keying in CTRL+L. The adjust level box pops in. There, you can see how the depth was specified, whether a time limit, a nodes limit, a search depth limit or an infinite depth.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: No, you are misunderstanding. There is a Node cap in Stockfish_10_x64. This means it cannot analyze beyond that point. It's capped. I need an engine that is not capped. Stockfish_10_x64 is supposed to be the best out there right now. Why put a cap on how many nodes it can search? This doesnt make sense to me, unless the Stockfish Team truly does not want the public to have any version of Stockfish_10_x64 that has no limits. Because, as it is now, Stockfish_10_x64 is extremely crippled by this limitation: which further cripples my study in depth.  
  > **username_0**: It does not allow me to play according to a search depth beyond the Nodes Cap that I am referring to. Maybe I am not wording it correctly. I apologize. I am terrified of public speaking, and trying to overcome it. I am nervous here. It plainly says, "After this number of nodes the search will be terminated"  
  > **username_2**: You are right, capping Stockfish is something non-sense. It is not capped. "unless the Stockfish Team truly does not want the public to have any version of Stockfish_10_x64 that has no limits" Stockfish is open source. If it was capped then anyone can easily edit the source code to allow it to search infinitely. Did you check the answer above? If so, then it is a problem with the Arena you are using. Arena should let you choose the search depth of the engine it is using.  
  > **username_2**: Can you provide the number of nodes where Stockfish stops analysing, i.e. the maximum number of nodes reached?  
  > **username_0**: Hello and yes here is that number: 2147399999  
  > **username_0**: I need to make something very clear I never said Stockfish_10_x64 stops analyzing. I say this because you said "Can you provide the number of nodes where Stockfish stops analysing". It will analyze orthodox lines before the Node cap is reached, or rather up to that point of where the cap ends how many Nodes can be analyzed. So its not that analyzation stops completely: rather that it cannot go any further due to the Node cap that stops it.  
  > **username_0**: We cannot search beyond the node cap, or "nodes limit" using your wording.  
  > **username_2**: Sorry for saying this, but I cannot reproduce the problem. [Here](https://i.sstatic.net/U6f0b.png) is a screenshot with Stockfish 10 64-bit analyzing the starting position in Arena, where it reached 6,476,933,128 nodes.  
  > **username_0**: Hello, I hope you had a good New Years. To reproduce what I am seeing, follow these steps exactly (unless you discover a faster way through shortcuts to get to the final result I am seeing). Step #1) [After Arena is opened, and you already have Stockfish_10_x64 loaded] click "levels" at top. Step 2) Click "Adjust" Step 3) Click Nodes Step 4) Enter Node amount of 2147399999 (this is the highest node amount you can save after entering). Step 5) Click "Okay"  
  > **username_0**: Now that you have done the steps I listed: start any game from your mind or any opening book etc. regardless of the amount of moves made choose a time to click the "Analyze" button. Now allow it to analyze. Be sure to watch what happens when it gets to 2.147.399.999 Nodes! In my case it went past the amount of Nodes I entered. It confused me at first till I looked deeper into the lines it was searching through. The lines it was searching through was the lines it previously searched through to get to the Nodes Cap number!!  
  > **username_0**: What this taught me is there is no real Pruning taking place of the move trees to the effective degree that stops this: what I have labeled "The Node Loop"! It also taught me that any Node searched beyond the amount of 2.147.399.999 Nodes are NOT new lines. rather they are lines that have already been searched through and allegedly (or rather supposed to have been Pruned away).  
  > **username_0**: Yet whether there is any pruning taking place or not taking place behind the scenes within the coding itself, the fact remains that any Node searched through (looked at proverbially speaking) beyond the Node Cap are not new lines and the Node count you are seeing that is above 2.147.399.999 Nodes are nothing more than what it has previously searched through!  
  > **username_0**: If my observation is somehow flawed or I am reaching a false conclusion then please explain to me how it is flawed or false in such a way that I can prove it to myself with 'data-numbers-formulas-results' otherwise I am left to presume the Nodes Cap exists even in "infinite analysis mode: due to the fact that I could not discover any "new lines" via that method. Yet what I am seeing is old lines regurgitated in that "Node Loop" I was speaking about.  
  > **username_0**: I am now left to draw from a few theoretical conclusions from all of this. 1) Analyze mode bypasses any Node amount entered when seeking to play by Node Count (Yet if this were true we would see new lines discovered and not old lines gone over and over and over again, which should have already been pruned away and discarded and not counted more than once per tree variation) 2) The Node Loop I am seeing directly effects the line of sight to/in Depth, due to the Loop taking place within the illegitimate pruning of the lines to/in Width. cont...  
  > **username_0**: ...cont 3) The Nodes Cap is the highest number of Nodes we are able to set Stockfish_10_x64 engine to: since it seems that when the search gets to this range (long before, slightly before, at/or slightly after) the engine makes its move [applies to engine against engine and/or engine against human modes {no move ever being made by the engine in analyze mode}].  
  > **username_0**: So there is indeed a Node Cap to how many Nodes can be searched through before the engine makes a move selection: as I have proven with 2.147.399.999 Nodes. Aside from the obvious question to me of whether or not all the nodes that lead up to that Node Cap are indeed new and different lines (which I have so far concluded are not new lines at all) the issue of why there is a cap to begin with stunts my ability to reason it through or come to any logical conclusions other than it has been purposefully capped for some reason unknown to me (and I have not found ANY website in any (cont...)  
  > **username_0**: (...cont) country that speaks of this in partial or depth as to why the cap is there).  
  > **username_0**: One other note worth mentioning here is the "Node Cap" I am referring to is at both the low end and high end of what we are allowed to enter: The lowest being "1000000 Nodes". So after all this writing I am left to ask WHY is Stockfish_10_x64 capped when playing by amount of Nodes?!!  
  > **username_2**: Of course when you set the level to a number of nodes it will stop at that number **while playing**, and **not while analyzing**. The number of nodes you see in there is the total number of possible positions up to the given depth. This includes **all** positions, whether pruned or not. You state that as it goes further it investigates the lines it had  already pruned out. This is not the case. If it was then the depth would stay the same upon reaching that number of nodes. The depth of 42 in my screenshot would't have been reached if your reasoning was true.  
  > **username_2**: I suggest you integrate all of the above information in the question. It is a part of the question and future readers my look for your question when they encounter the same scenario.  
  > **username_0**: Then please explain why there is a Node Cap. I appreciate all you are saying yet you are not addressing the Node Cap/  
  > **username_0**: Also according to the movelist I am able to see.. it is indeed looping back over movelists it already looked at:adding to the value of the alleged Depth/Node Cap Value. I have just recently also discovered what appears to be a Depth Cap as well.  
  
  ---
  
  