Body: <p>I have been learning the French Defense lately and there was one game where I was confused about the computer analysis.
  Chess.com's engine says that <strong>8... c4</strong> is a mistake in the first game, while in the second it's part of theory.</p>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;&quot;]
  [White &quot;opponent&quot;]
  [Black &quot;iaquobe&quot;]
  [Result &quot;0-1&quot;]
  [ECO &quot;C11&quot;]
  [Event &quot;Classical French&quot;]
  [WhiteElo &quot;1653&quot;]
  [BlackElo &quot;1670&quot;]
  [TimeControl &quot;900+10&quot;]
  [EndTime &quot;10:44:37 PST&quot;]
  [Termination &quot;iaquobe won by resignation&quot;]
  [StartFlipped &quot;1&quot;] 
  
  1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. Nce2 c5 6. c3 Nc6 7. Nf3 Qb6 8. a3 c4
  9. Nf4 Na5
  </code></pre>
  <pre><code>[FEN &quot;&quot;]
  [White &quot;opponent&quot;]
  [Black &quot;iaquobe&quot;]
  [Event &quot;Advance Paulsen&quot;]
  [Result &quot;0-1&quot;]
  [ECO &quot;C02&quot;]
  [StartFlipped &quot;1&quot;] 
  
  1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. d4 Qb6 6. a3 c4 7. Nbd2 Na5 8. Be2 Bd7
  9. Qc2 Be7
  </code></pre>
  <p>I am not sure if my assesment of the position is correct, but this is what I see:</p>
  <p>both positions have in comon:</p>
  <ul>
  <li>pawn structure is the same</li>
  <li>white's b3 square is weak, plans of <strong>...Nb3</strong> freezing the queen side</li>
  <li>ideas of <strong>...e6</strong> and <strong>... O-O-O</strong>, creating attack on king side</li>
  </ul>
  <p>What's better in the first game:</p>
  <ul>
  <li>knight's outpost on b3 is not defended</li>
  <li>freezing queenside can be done earlier</li>
  <li>white is one move further from castling (but there is no immediate danger, so it's not that important)</li>
  <li><strong>...Ng8, ...Nf6, ...Na5</strong> to support the other knight on its outpost</li>
  </ul>
  <p>What's worse in the first game:</p>
  <ul>
  <li>no bishop on d7 that supports the freeze</li>
  <li>whites pieces are slightly more active</li>
  <li>it will take longer to develop blacks light squared bishop, delaying castles</li>
  <li>the d7 knight in the first game supports e6, but white is not forced to take, so the knight will block the light squared bishop</li>
  </ul>
  <p>Based of this I would say that the position is slightly better for black in the second game, but I am not sure how to weight the different arguments against each other.</p>
  <p>Can someone help me understand the position, and why <strong>c4</strong> is a bad move?</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-12-19T13:33:30.830Z
Comments.Text: c4 in general is not a move you want to play in French - it completely freezes your counterplay on queenside. You want to keep the tension between c5 and d4 as long as possible. Even in Paulsen after you play it you are forced into slightly passive defence on the kingside - basically your choice in this position is between playing c4, lossing counterplay and patiently defending until white runs out of initiative and you equalize; or not playing c4, thus allowing b4 and getting a messy position where white is slightly better, but you have some counterplay.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Matija Sirk
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-12-19T14:27:40.170Z
Comments.Text: I understand that it may lead to passive positions, but in the Lichess's masters games it's the mainline and it's one of the top engine moves.
  Why is preventing b4 and accepting a passive position in the Paulsen a valid move while it is a mistake in the Classical?
Comments.UserDisplayName: iaquobe
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-12-21T02:43:30.833Z
Comments.Text: In the first position, it's more important to keep the pawn tension in the center since otherwise the d7 knight will become completely useless on its square and will take at least two moves to get almost into the game (Q move then Nb6, where it still won't be doing that much) or f6 which will only benefit white since black already committed to the queenside with c4.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Hank's back rank
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-12-25T15:15:01.440Z
Comments.Text: @Hank'sbackrank Thanks for you explanation. When you say it, it makes sense that the knight on d7 is blocking the whole position and that white will have time to start an attack by the time black is developed
Comments.UserDisplayName: iaquobe
Tags: <french-defense>
Title: Why is **...c4** bad in the Classical French but not in the Advanced Paulsen Variation?
ThreadText: # Why is **...c4** bad in the Classical French but not in the Advanced Paulsen Variation?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2023-12-19)
  
  I have been learning the French Defense lately and there was one game where I was confused about the computer analysis.
  Chess.com's engine says that 8... c4 is a mistake in the first game, while in the second it's part of theory.
  [FEN ""]
  [White "opponent"]
  [Black "username_0"]
  [Result "0-1"]
  [ECO "C11"]
  [Event "Classical French"]
  [WhiteElo "1653"]
  [BlackElo "1670"]
  [TimeControl "900+10"]
  [EndTime "10:44:37 PST"]
  [Termination "username_0 won by resignation"]
  [StartFlipped "1"] 
  
  1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e5 Nfd7 5. Nce2 c5 6. c3 Nc6 7. Nf3 Qb6 8. a3 c4
  9. Nf4 Na5
  
  [FEN ""]
  [White "opponent"]
  [Black "username_0"]
  [Event "Advance Paulsen"]
  [Result "0-1"]
  [ECO "C02"]
  [StartFlipped "1"] 
  
  1. e4 e6 2. Nf3 d5 3. e5 c5 4. c3 Nc6 5. d4 Qb6 6. a3 c4 7. Nbd2 Na5 8. Be2 Bd7
  9. Qc2 Be7
  
  I am not sure if my assesment of the position is correct, but this is what I see:
  both positions have in comon:
  
  pawn structure is the same
  white's b3 square is weak, plans of ...Nb3 freezing the queen side
  ideas of ...e6 and ... O-O-O, creating attack on king side
  
  What's better in the first game:
  
  knight's outpost on b3 is not defended
  freezing queenside can be done earlier
  white is one move further from castling (but there is no immediate danger, so it's not that important)
  ...Ng8, ...Nf6, ...Na5 to support the other knight on its outpost
  
  What's worse in the first game:
  
  no bishop on d7 that supports the freeze
  whites pieces are slightly more active
  it will take longer to develop blacks light squared bishop, delaying castles
  the d7 knight in the first game supports e6, but white is not forced to take, so the knight will block the light squared bishop
  
  Based of this I would say that the position is slightly better for black in the second game, but I am not sure how to weight the different arguments against each other.
  Can someone help me understand the position, and why c4 is a bad move?
  
  **Tags:** french-defense
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: c4 in general is not a move you want to play in French - it completely freezes your counterplay on queenside. You want to keep the tension between c5 and d4 as long as possible. Even in Paulsen after you play it you are forced into slightly passive defence on the kingside - basically your choice in this position is between playing c4, lossing counterplay and patiently defending until white runs out of initiative and you equalize; or not playing c4, thus allowing b4 and getting a messy position where white is slightly better, but you have some counterplay.  
  > **username_0**: I understand that it may lead to passive positions, but in the Lichess's masters games it's the mainline and it's one of the top engine moves. Why is preventing b4 and accepting a passive position in the Paulsen a valid move while it is a mistake in the Classical?  
  > **username_2**: In the first position, it's more important to keep the pawn tension in the center since otherwise the d7 knight will become completely useless on its square and will take at least two moves to get almost into the game (Q move then Nb6, where it still won't be doing that much) or f6 which will only benefit white since black already committed to the queenside with c4.  
  > **username_0**: @Hank'sbackrank Thanks for you explanation. When you say it, it makes sense that the knight on d7 is blocking the whole position and that white will have time to start an attack by the time black is developed  
  
  ---
  
  ## 0 answers
  
  