Answers.Body: <p><strong>2021 Update</strong>: i think they've done more edits to the app and the game.</p>
  <p>The app: The app was unfortunately not so good but I believe at least a little better now.</p>
  <p>The game: I think the game is pretty balanced and fun and indeed requires skill in both chess and poker (well, maybe depends if the game has proper blinds and stuff). Thus, 'worth playing'. I think the best evidence for this is that there's already a <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsHpVDuWRyI" rel="nofollow noreferrer">choker cup</a>, livestreamed by chess24.</p>
  <p>Note that by giving the choker cup as an argument, this argument is more a posteriori than a priori or something. I'm not really arguing in terms of the rules of the game. I'm arguing like if there's a choker cup and Hikaru Nakamura, Alex Botez and Eric Rosen are playing this, then the game must be pretty balanced or whatever and thus 'worth playing'.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2021-02-13T18:28:01.553Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2021-02-13T18:28:01.553Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: BCLC
Answers.Body: <blockquote>
    <p>My concern is that this is very unfair to one of the players as often even strong hands are not strong enough and end up being down a piece. </p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>But in regular poker, the hand would simply be over at this point. If you're looking for a fair chess game, just play chess!</p>
  
  <p>I included the promotion/demotion/palace/empress rules and simulated a million hands, and came up with the following material imbalances:</p>
  
  <pre><code>0   : 141731
  2   : 268811
  4   : 223876
  6   : 154819
  8   : 94144
  10  : 54601
  More: 62018
  </code></pre>
  
  <p>This is slightly more equal than without those rules, but it's still rather imbalanced. The median hand will give one side a +4 advantage. I think the idea is that someone is supposed to fold during the betting if there is a large difference between the hands; this may reduce the number of uncompetitive chess games.</p>
  
  <p>I think this variation may be somewhat useful for those who are <em>not</em> able to consistently win an early endgame position with a +2 or +4 advantage. Given that you probably don't get a lot of time to play the game, it may also be useful for practicing being in time trouble at the end of the game. </p>
  
  <p>But there are probably better ways you could practice your endgame.  In the end, it's worth playing if, and only if, you have fun.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2019-12-30T01:44:11.147Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2019-12-30T01:44:11.147Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: D M
Body: <p><a href="https://chokergame.com/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Choker (chess + poker)</a> was released recently as a mobile app. It is a game where players have a round of poker to bet on cards they draw. They then use these cards to play chess and win the bets. It's 1 on 1, like regular chess.</p>
  <ol>
  <li><p>My concern is that choker is not quite balanced in that I think it happens too frequently that one of the players has a really strong hand in that the other ends up being down a piece.</p>
  </li>
  <li><p>Another reason I think this is especially due to the fact that you cannot see your opponent's pieces until they place all of them. (However, this does not seem to be the case in the most recent version of the app.)</p>
  </li>
  <li><p>Also, there's that you can't quite have 2 pieces of the same &quot;suit&quot; (there are pre-chess-promotion and demotion rules) or even place the pieces except pawns anywhere on our side besides the 1st 2 rows.</p>
  </li>
  </ol>
  <p>Question: Is this a balanced game?</p>
  <p>Sub-questions: What are the probabilities of the hands in choker? How far apart are the 2 player's hands on average? Do the promotion/demotion rules make choker less balanced?</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-04-03T15:58:59.010Z
Comments.Text: @BCLC I'm not sure. I fear you can't determine whether this game is 'balanced' in an objective way. Chess itself is balanced (though a little in White's favour), but whether a game is balanced between skill and luck is an opinion. Some people prefer chess because there's no luck involved; some prefer lottery tickets...
Comments.UserDisplayName: Glorfindel
Tags: <chess-variants><online-chess><choker>
Title: Is Choker balanced?
ThreadText: # Is Choker balanced?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2019-12-28)
  
  [Choker (chess + poker)](https://chokergame.com/) was released recently as a mobile app. It is a game where players have a round of poker to bet on cards they draw. They then use these cards to play chess and win the bets. It's 1 on 1, like regular chess.
  
  1. My concern is that choker is not quite balanced in that I think it happens too frequently that one of the players has a really strong hand in that the other ends up being down a piece.
  2. Another reason I think this is especially due to the fact that you cannot see your opponent's pieces until they place all of them. (However, this does not seem to be the case in the most recent version of the app.)
  3. Also, there's that you can't quite have 2 pieces of the same "suit" (there are pre-chess-promotion and demotion rules) or even place the pieces except pawns anywhere on our side besides the 1st 2 rows.
  
  Question: Is this a balanced game?
  
  Sub-questions: What are the probabilities of the hands in choker? How far apart are the 2 player's hands on average? Do the promotion/demotion rules make choker less balanced?
  
  **Tags:** chess-variants, online-chess, choker
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: @username_2 I'm not sure. I fear you can't determine whether this game is 'balanced' in an objective way. Chess itself is balanced (though a little in White's favour), but whether a game is balanced between skill and luck is an opinion. Some people prefer chess because there's no luck involved; some prefer lottery tickets...  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_3 on 2019-12-30. Score: 6 | Accepted answer
  
  My concern is that this is very unfair to one of the players as often even strong hands are not strong enough and end up being down a piece. 
  
  But in regular poker, the hand would simply be over at this point. If you're looking for a fair chess game, just play chess!
  I included the promotion/demotion/palace/empress rules and simulated a million hands, and came up with the following material imbalances:
  0   : 141731
  2   : 268811
  4   : 223876
  6   : 154819
  8   : 94144
  10  : 54601
  More: 62018
  
  This is slightly more equal than without those rules, but it's still rather imbalanced. The median hand will give one side a +4 advantage. I think the idea is that someone is supposed to fold during the betting if there is a large difference between the hands; this may reduce the number of uncompetitive chess games.
  I think this variation may be somewhat useful for those who are not able to consistently win an early endgame position with a +2 or +4 advantage. Given that you probably don't get a lot of time to play the game, it may also be useful for practicing being in time trouble at the end of the game. 
  But there are probably better ways you could practice your endgame.  In the end, it's worth playing if, and only if, you have fun.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2021-02-13. Score: 2
  
  **2021 Update**: i think they've done more edits to the app and the game.
  
  The app: The app was unfortunately not so good but I believe at least a little better now.
  
  The game: I think the game is pretty balanced and fun and indeed requires skill in both chess and poker (well, maybe depends if the game has proper blinds and stuff). Thus, 'worth playing'. I think the best evidence for this is that there's already a [choker cup](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsHpVDuWRyI), livestreamed by chess24.
  
  Note that by giving the choker cup as an argument, this argument is more a posteriori than a priori or something. I'm not really arguing in terms of the rules of the game. I'm arguing like if there's a choker cup and Hikaru Nakamura, Alex Botez and Eric Rosen are playing this, then the game must be pretty balanced or whatever and thus 'worth playing'.
  
  
  ---
  
  