Answers.Body: <p>There are certainly much older usages of &quot;fish&quot; that might be related, but I suspect the meaning of a poor player became popular more recently, and I have heard it used more regularly among poker players. If it came to other games from poker, one influence might be <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Yardley" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Herbert Yardley</a>'s book <em>The Education of a Poker Player</em> (1957). While working in China in the late 1930s, Yardley confused his interpreter/aide by referring to an over-optimistic player as a &quot;sucker&quot;. The interpreter looked it up in a dictionary and remarked &quot;oh, it's a kind of fish&quot;. IIRC (not having a copy to hand), they subsequently use &quot;fish&quot; as a synonym.</p>
  
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Especially Lime
Body: <p>When I coined the German version &quot;Blindfisch&quot; for a patzer, in my Sturm und Drang youth, I <em>maybe</em> was influenced by &quot;fish&quot; (I read everything chess that I could get my hands on, so why not English material, although this was rare at the time in Germany). Thus I'm interested in the history of the word. (Author? Time of coining?)</p>
  
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Comments.Text: Not specific to chess, but in a possible-gambling scenario, the naive beginners were occasionally called "fish" in English. Can't give a literature reference off-hand, unfortunately. Reading Damon Runyon's short stories (if you haven't already) would be a good reference for various slang ... and a fun read.
Comments.UserDisplayName: paul garrett
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Comments.Text: Etymonline <https://www.etymonline.com/word/fish> says:
   «*Fish* (n.) for "person" is from 1750 with a faintly dismissive sense;
  earlier it was used in reference to a person considered desirable to "catch"
  (1722).»  Maybe this also suggested a chess (or card, etc.) player
  who's easy to catch with suitable bait.  BTW Etymonline also has
  an entry for *patzer* / *potzer* "an incompetent chess player"
  <https://www.etymonline.com/word/patzer>, recorded since 1948.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
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Comments.CreationDate: 2024-05-12T04:53:29.340Z
Comments.Text: Professor Elkies of all people  -- I remember your chess compositions from long ago. I wonder if "fish" is related to "shooting fish in a barrel" or the idea that one can win simply by being patient against a weak player and he or she will make a mistake the strong player can take advantage of. Or generally the unequal contest between a fish and a fisherman in the sport of fishing.
Comments.UserDisplayName: releseabe
Tags: <history><terminology>
Title: "Fish" for a patzer
ThreadText: # "Fish" for a patzer
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2024-05-04)
  
  When I coined the German version "Blindfisch" for a patzer, in my Sturm und Drang youth, I *maybe* was influenced by "fish" (I read everything chess that I could get my hands on, so why not English material, although this was rare at the time in Germany). Thus I'm interested in the history of the word. (Author? Time of coining?)
  
  **Tags:** history, terminology
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Not specific to chess, but in a possible-gambling scenario, the naive beginners were occasionally called "fish" in English. Can't give a literature reference off-hand, unfortunately. Reading Damon Runyon's short stories (if you haven't already) would be a good reference for various slang ... and a fun read.  
  > **username_2**: Etymonline <https://www.etymonline.com/word/fish> says:  «*Fish* (n.) for "person" is from 1750 with a faintly dismissive sense; earlier it was used in reference to a person considered desirable to "catch" (1722).»  Maybe this also suggested a chess (or card, etc.) player who's easy to catch with suitable bait.  BTW Etymonline also has an entry for *patzer* / *potzer* "an incompetent chess player" <https://www.etymonline.com/word/patzer>, recorded since 1948.  
  > **username_3**: Professor Elkies of all people  -- I remember your chess compositions from long ago. I wonder if "fish" is related to "shooting fish in a barrel" or the idea that one can win simply by being patient against a weak player and he or she will make a mistake the strong player can take advantage of. Or generally the unequal contest between a fish and a fisherman in the sport of fishing.  
  
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  ## 1 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_4 on 2024-05-08. Score: 1
  
  There are certainly much older usages of "fish" that might be related, but I suspect the meaning of a poor player became popular more recently, and I have heard it used more regularly among poker players. If it came to other games from poker, one influence might be [Herbert Yardley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Yardley)'s book *The Education of a Poker Player* (1957). While working in China in the late 1930s, Yardley confused his interpreter/aide by referring to an over-optimistic player as a "sucker". The interpreter looked it up in a dictionary and remarked "oh, it's a kind of fish". IIRC (not having a copy to hand), they subsequently use "fish" as a synonym.
  
  
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