Answers.Body: <p>Both recording checks and draw offers are personal preference, and neither is required in your notation.</p>
  
  <p>I actually do record both checks as "<strong>+</strong>" or "<strong>++</strong>", and draw offers as "<strong>(d)</strong>". I know I am not the only one to note draw offers as I have friends, who do the same. I also record times.</p>
  
  <p>The purpose of the notation is so you, or the arbiter, can play back over the game, and neither notation addition is really relevant for that purpose. I just like to know for my own edification if I go back later.</p>
  
  <p>FIDE rules actually reference draw offers.</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p>8.1b The scoresheet shall be used only for recording the moves, the times of the clocks, offers of a draw, matters relating to a claim and
    other relevant data.</p>
  </blockquote>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-18T01:55:11.753Z
Answers.Text: Thanks! One observation: when I read professional game records, I frequently see check notation +'s but never any draw offers recorded.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Zuriel
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-18T01:56:20.847Z
Answers.Text: It seems FIDE only permits recording draw offers but never requires it.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Zuriel
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-18T01:59:06.250Z
Answers.Text: @Zuriel Correct. They do not require that, or noting times...they just allow it if a player wants to. As far as not seeing in on professional scoresheets, that could just be the player (maybe not OCD enough), or there were no draw offers in the game. Most games that I have seen the scoresheets have been wins, otherwise why publish it, so there was probably an advantage, and thus, less chance of a draw offer to begin with.
Answers.UserDisplayName: PhishMaster
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-18T02:01:34.960Z
Answers.Text: Thanks! But surely there exist rejected draw offers. Do you happen to know even one example of recorded rejected draw offers between professional players in a formal game?
Answers.UserDisplayName: Zuriel
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-18T02:04:36.240Z
Answers.Text: No, I cannot say that I do have such an example. I am just saying that they surely do exist, but more likely we, the public, would not see such a scoresheet because the game would be equal if there had been a draw offer (sure, it could have been turned down) and the public likes decisive games, and decisive games make it into magazines, etc.
Answers.UserDisplayName: PhishMaster
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-19T00:01:21.203Z
Answers.Text: I love how they throw the caveat on the end "and other relevant data" - it's like passive aggressively saying "please don't doodle or write insults on the scoresheet."
Answers.UserDisplayName: corsiKa
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-19T20:45:02.973Z
Answers.Text: `+` is check, `#` checkmate, what's `++` stand for? A serious check?
Answers.UserDisplayName: Mast
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-19T21:27:37.493Z
Answers.Text: @Mast A double check.
Answers.UserDisplayName: PhishMaster
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-12-12T21:17:39.193Z
Answers.Text: @Zuriel: Re "One observation: when I read professional game records, I frequently see check notation +'s but never any draw offers recorded."
  
  It's likely that games you see from the modern era from top players use the PGN that is created automatically by the DGT board the players use. That board has no way to know (or record) when a draw offer is made.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Jim Ratliff
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-12-12T21:40:52.220Z
Answers.Text: Though I agree with @PhishMaster that "++" means double-check, the [FIDE Handbook] (handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012018) (Appendix C. at C.13) gives "++" as one of two acceptable abbreviations for checkmate (the other being, of course, "#"). The PGN standard (a) says there is no symbol for double check. (See [§8.2.3.5] (http://www.saremba.de/chessgml/standards/pgn/pgn-complete.htm#c8.2.3) "There are no special markings used for double checks or discovered checks." but (b) allows ONLY "#" for checkmate ("if the move is a checkmating move, the octothorpe sign "#" is appended instead.").
Answers.UserDisplayName: Jim Ratliff
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-18T01:47:31.683Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2020-02-18T01:55:23.200Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2020-02-18T01:55:23.200Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: PhishMaster
Answers.Body: <p>According to the <a href="https://old.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=208&amp;view=article" rel="noreferrer">FIDE Laws of Chess</a>:</p>
  
  <blockquote>
    <p><strong>Appendix C. Algebraic notation</strong></p>
    
    <p>C.12 The offer of a draw shall be marked as (=)</p>
  </blockquote>
  
  <p>As with a number of the laws regarding recording of the moves this is not strictly enforced by arbiters. I did once play in a tournament in which a very junior arbiter delivered a short harangue to us players telling us to record draw offers. I'm not sure anyone paid much attention.</p>
  
  <p>The serious point about recording draw offers is what do you do if an opponent disturbs you by repeatedly offering draws? If you complain to the arbiter then the first thing the arbiter is going to do (if he or she is any good) is ask you to point out on your scoresheet the moves where the draw offers were made. If you haven't recorded any draw offers on your scoresheet then you will be wasting your time.</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2020-02-18T10:24:31.547Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2020-02-18T10:24:31.547Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Brian Towers
Body: <p>In recording a game, one typically does not record offering draws (if yes, how and is it required?) while one does indicate that a particular move gives a check by using + (or ++ for double checks).</p>
  
  <p>I am wondering if this is logical. In fact, it is not difficult to tell whether a move gives a check (or a double check) or not but once a draw offer is not recorded, it is virtually impossible to know it by reading the moves.</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-18T22:38:21.887Z
Comments.Text: I remember when I first started playing chess (I was around 12 or 13 at the time) I would not only mark check and checkmate, but also add "!", "?", etc. *in real time as moves were made*!
Comments.UserDisplayName: Michael
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-18T22:45:24.273Z
Comments.Text: @Michael, see the answer below: it seems adding "!" and "?" violates FIDE rules 8.1b.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Zuriel
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-02-18T22:55:41.770Z
Comments.Text: Thanks, no doubt middle-school rules were a bit different from FIDE... not to mention I quickly correctly my mistake after a bit of teasing and learning about the correct application of these notations upon careful analysis *after the fact*.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Michael
Tags: <draw><notation><check><double-check>
Title: Why is offering draw not recorded but giving a check recorded?
ThreadText: # Why is offering draw not recorded but giving a check recorded?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2020-02-18)
  
  In recording a game, one typically does not record offering draws (if yes, how and is it required?) while one does indicate that a particular move gives a check by using + (or ++ for double checks).
  
  I am wondering if this is logical. In fact, it is not difficult to tell whether a move gives a check (or a double check) or not but once a draw offer is not recorded, it is virtually impossible to know it by reading the moves.
  
  **Tags:** draw, notation, check, double-check
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: I remember when I first started playing chess (I was around 12 or 13 at the time) I would not only mark check and checkmate, but also add "!", "?", etc. *in real time as moves were made*!  
  > **username_0**: @username_1, see the answer below: it seems adding "!" and "?" violates FIDE rules 8.1b.  
  > **username_1**: Thanks, no doubt middle-school rules were a bit different from FIDE... not to mention I quickly correctly my mistake after a bit of teasing and learning about the correct application of these notations upon careful analysis *after the fact*.  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_6 on 2020-02-18. Score: 20 | Accepted answer
  
  According to the [FIDE Laws of Chess](https://old.fide.com/fide/handbook.html?id=208&view=article):
  
  > **Appendix C. Algebraic notation**
  >
  > C.12 The offer of a draw shall be marked as (=)
  
  As with a number of the laws regarding recording of the moves this is not strictly enforced by arbiters. I did once play in a tournament in which a very junior arbiter delivered a short harangue to us players telling us to record draw offers. I'm not sure anyone paid much attention.
  
  The serious point about recording draw offers is what do you do if an opponent disturbs you by repeatedly offering draws? If you complain to the arbiter then the first thing the arbiter is going to do (if he or she is any good) is ask you to point out on your scoresheet the moves where the draw offers were made. If you haven't recorded any draw offers on your scoresheet then you will be wasting your time.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2020-02-18. Score: 20
  
  Both recording checks and draw offers are personal preference, and neither is required in your notation.
  
  I actually do record both checks as "**+**" or "**++**", and draw offers as "**(d)**". I know I am not the only one to note draw offers as I have friends, who do the same. I also record times.
  
  The purpose of the notation is so you, or the arbiter, can play back over the game, and neither notation addition is really relevant for that purpose. I just like to know for my own edification if I go back later.
  
  FIDE rules actually reference draw offers.
  
  > 8.1b The scoresheet shall be used only for recording the moves, the times of the clocks, offers of a draw, matters relating to a claim and
  > other relevant data.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: Thanks! One observation: when I read professional game records, I frequently see check notation +'s but never any draw offers recorded.  
  > **username_0**: It seems FIDE only permits recording draw offers but never requires it.  
  > **username_2**: @username_0 Correct. They do not require that, or noting times...they just allow it if a player wants to. As far as not seeing in on professional scoresheets, that could just be the player (maybe not OCD enough), or there were no draw offers in the game. Most games that I have seen the scoresheets have been wins, otherwise why publish it, so there was probably an advantage, and thus, less chance of a draw offer to begin with.  
  > **username_0**: Thanks! But surely there exist rejected draw offers. Do you happen to know even one example of recorded rejected draw offers between professional players in a formal game?  
  > **username_2**: No, I cannot say that I do have such an example. I am just saying that they surely do exist, but more likely we, the public, would not see such a scoresheet because the game would be equal if there had been a draw offer (sure, it could have been turned down) and the public likes decisive games, and decisive games make it into magazines, etc.  
  > **username_3**: I love how they throw the caveat on the end "and other relevant data" - it's like passive aggressively saying "please don't doodle or write insults on the scoresheet."  
  > **username_4**: `+` is check, `#` checkmate, what's `++` stand for? A serious check?  
  > **username_2**: @username_4 A double check.  
  > **username_5**: @username_0: Re "One observation: when I read professional game records, I frequently see check notation +'s but never any draw offers recorded."  It's likely that games you see from the modern era from top players use the PGN that is created automatically by the DGT board the players use. That board has no way to know (or record) when a draw offer is made.  
  > **username_5**: Though I agree with @username_2 that "++" means double-check, the [FIDE Handbook] (handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012018) (Appendix C. at C.13) gives "++" as one of two acceptable abbreviations for checkmate (the other being, of course, "#"). The PGN standard (a) says there is no symbol for double check. (See [§8.2.3.5] (http://www.saremba.de/chessgml/standards/pgn/pgn-complete.htm#c8.2.3) "There are no special markings used for double checks or discovered checks." but (b) allows ONLY "#" for checkmate ("if the move is a checkmating move, the octothorpe sign "#" is appended instead.").  
  
  ---
  
  