Answers.Body: <p><code>3.Nc3</code> allows White to play the <a href="https://lichess.org/study/4Aqycynk/KBOAk93S" rel="noreferrer">Two Knights Attack</a> with <code>2.Nf3</code>. It does block the c-pawn, though, so Black can play <code>3...g6</code>, the <a href="https://lichess.org/study/4Aqycynk/3Zjm99OY" rel="noreferrer">Gurgenidze System</a>, because White cannot protect the d-pawn with the c-pawn.</p>
  
  <p>There is also the rarely played <a href="https://lichess.org/study/4Aqycynk/prcSJeZ2" rel="noreferrer">Gurgenidze Counter Attack</a> <code>3...b5</code>. A very dubious line that can be stopped easily with <code>a3</code>.</p>
  
  <p><code>3.Nd2</code> tries to avoid these lines, but it makes the Two Knights Attack impossible, a line that is very popular nowadays. It also blocks the view of White's dark-squared bishop, so Black can develop their kingside knight to <code>h6</code> if they want.</p>
  
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Answers.Text: I don't get this, the Two Knights Attack is already impossible after 2.d4; a move played on turn 3 can not make something on turn 2 possible, that's in the past. As you say 3.Nd2 is good against ...g6, so there must be some other move by black (besides ...dxe4) to take advantage of it or it would be much more popular.
Answers.UserDisplayName: RemcoGerlich
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Answers.Text: `d4` is a move in almost every line of the Two Knights, although it is often played a bit later. There is one line with `d3`, but it's rather rare and probably a bit too passive.
Answers.UserDisplayName: fuxia
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Answers.Text: So what is the downside of Nd2? How can black make use of it?
Answers.UserDisplayName: RemcoGerlich
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Answers.Text: @RemcoGerlich There is no real downside, that's why it is still played so often.
Answers.UserDisplayName: fuxia
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Answers.Text: In my database I see that 3.Nc3 is more than twice as popular as 3.Nd2. IThe question asks why. Your answer says that 3.Nd2 has an advantage (it's better against ...g6) and that it has no real downside. I don't understand.
Answers.UserDisplayName: RemcoGerlich
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Answers.Text: I don't know these systems, but I suspect that the trade off is: 3. Nc3 blocks the c-pawn, 3.Nd2 blocks the dark-square bishop.
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Answers.UserDisplayName: fuxia
Answers.Body: <p>Yes, if Black plays 3...dxe4 there is no difference whatsoever.</p>
  
  <p>The difference between 3.Nc3 and 3.Nd2 is the sidelines they allow/prevent Black from playing. For example, 3.Nc3 may encourage 3...b5!?, trying to harass the knight.</p>
  
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Answers.Body: <p>Nd2 avoids this line:</p>
  
  <p>1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 b5!? 4.ed5 b4 followed by recapturing on d5</p>
  
  <p>IM Jeremey Silman was a proponent of this for Black as a surprise weapon.</p>
  
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Answers.Body: <p>It doesn't really matter – the only difference is against g6, which is considered not very good by theory and is rare. Nd2 is slightly better against g6, and technically Nd2 might be slightly more precise, but at the end of the day 99% of the time it doesn't matter (and even Nc3 g6 isn't bad at all).</p>
  
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Answers.Text: Thank you for your answer! If Nd2 is more precise than Nc3, why it is rarer in top levels?
Answers.UserDisplayName: Zuriel
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Answers.Text: It's marginally more precise, doesn't really matter. You might WANT to see g6 just to avoid theory and get a better position.
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Answers.UserDisplayName: pulsar512b
Answers.Body: <p>It is subtle and positional.  It avoids lines white does not want to see and does it without any drawbacks that are significant.</p>
  
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Answers.Text: another coward downvotes without giving a reason.
Answers.UserDisplayName: edwina oliver
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Answers.Text: Ok, I will give a reason before downvoting, as per your implied request. This answer is vague and hollow. Why would you not give examples of the lines that white wishes to avoid? If it is too subtle for you to explain properly, then there is no reason for you to answer the question to begin with. There is nothing new that this answer brings to the table that other answers haven't dealt with already.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Scounged
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Answers.Text: if it is not incorrect it should just be ignored.  if it is correct it should be  upvoted.  ONLY when it is totally wrong and misleading should it be downvoted.  i do not agree with  your reason but salute you for being the only person who at least gives some reason whether i agree or not with your reason.
Answers.UserDisplayName: edwina oliver
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Answers.Text: @edwinaoliver Actually if you hover over the downvote button, the text describing it says "this answer is not useful", not "this answer is totally wrong and misleading".
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Answers.UserDisplayName: edwina oliver
Answers.Body: <h2><code>3.Nd2</code> is more exact as it maintains flexibility over the <code>c</code>-pawn!</h2>
  
  <p>How that might be relevant becomes clearer when considering specific cases, for instance, as <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/a/24494/3594">pointed out by fuxia</a>, <code>3.Nd2</code> avoids the possibility of <code>3...g6.</code></p>
  
  <p>More precisely, in view of the concrete <code>3...g6</code> option:</p>
  
  <h2><code>3.Nc3</code></h2>
  
  <ul>
  <li><p><code>Nc3</code> blocks the <code>c</code>-pawn and allows black to comfortably aim for the solid kingside fianchetto setup with <code>3...g6</code>, providing the <code>g7</code> bishop decent scope on the long <code>a1-h8</code> diagonal along which multiple
  white targets stand. Although the immediate <code>e5</code> response in an attempt to close the diagonal is possible, black is well able to keep playing on the dark squares and undermine white's <code>d4,e5</code> setup with early <code>f6, c5</code> and white has to 
  invest extra tempo to reinforce with <code>c3</code>. Moreover, white often ends up with a temporarily (until <code>f4</code> can be played) weak isolated pawn on <code>e5</code>
  which black should target.</p></li>
  <li><p>With the fiachetto'ed bishop on <code>g7</code>, black wants to keep the play on the <em>dark squares</em> and further enable their bishop. In view of this, the delayed advance of the <code>c2</code>-pawn means white is slower in shifting the central tension over to <em>light squares</em>, which in turn means black gets comfortable equalising chances, as their fight for the center goes unchallenged.</p></li>
  </ul>
  
  <p>For a demonstration of the <code>3.Nc3 g6</code> line, first game that springs to mind is <a href="https://lichess.org/QZvleaPA" rel="noreferrer">Smyslov vs Seirawan</a>, where black benefited from a better fight for the center, exploiting the pressure on the long diagonal and white's delayed <code>c</code>-pawn advance to trade the <code>c7</code> for the <code>d4</code> pawn and establish a pawn majority in the center (see the diagrams below, progression from left to right). And black proceeded to draw the game comfortably while having the better endgame (dominating white's pawns on the queenside after <code>c4-b5</code> conceding an outpost to the <code>d7</code> knight).</p>
  
  <p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/kVZlSm.jpg" width="220" height="220">
  <img src="https://i.sstatic.net/FtWxzm.jpg" width="220" height="220">
  <img src="https://i.sstatic.net/Kkf2Nm.jpg" width="220" height="220"></p>
  
  <p>Caption:</p>
  
  <ul>
  <li><strong>Left:</strong> <code>d4</code> is not firmly defended and cannot be reinforced with <code>c2-c3</code>, thus remains prone to exchanges with the <code>c7-c5</code> pawn followed by the <code>e5</code> advance.</li>
  <li><strong>Middle and right:</strong> White's <code>Ne2, c4</code> has been too slow (green), thus, black finds a timely resolution of white's central pawns (red), after which black achieves a  clear pawn majority (right diagram) in the center (blue).</li>
  </ul>
  
  <h2><code>3.Nd2</code></h2>
  
  <ul>
  <li><code>3.Nd2</code> instead of <code>Nc3</code>, maintains flexibility over the <code>c</code>-pawn, in particular, it prevents <code>3...g6</code> as white can readily strike in the center (with <code>c4</code>) and immediately challenge black on the light squares (diagram below), specially in reply to black setups typified by the pervious diagrams.</li>
  </ul>
  
  <p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/FXdDM.jpg" width="250" height="250"></p>
  
  <ul>
  <li>Alternatively, if instead of an early <code>f6</code> black opts for <code>Bg4</code> pinning the <code>f3</code> knight and undermining <code>d4</code>'s defense, then white has the important fortifying option of <code>c2-c3</code> readily available. Therefore, after <code>3.Nd2</code>, the <code>g7</code> bishop stands poorly on the long diagonal which renders the whole <code>3...g6</code> option much less attractive for black.</li>
  </ul>
  
  <p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/h8G9j.jpg" width="250" height="250"></p>
  
  <p>In contrast to the game against <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Smyslov" rel="noreferrer">V. Smyslov</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Karpov" rel="noreferrer">Karpov</a> never extended the same kindness towards <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Seirawan" rel="noreferrer">Seirawan</a> and always played the more exact <code>3.Nd2</code> (example games: <a href="https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1066994" rel="noreferrer">(1)</a>, <a href="https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1067000" rel="noreferrer">(2)</a>, <a href="https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1067004" rel="noreferrer">(3)</a>). </p>
  
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Answers.Text: Your opening statement, "3.Nd2 is more exact as it maintains flexibility over the c-pawn!" is factually wrong in that it is not "more exact". First, if GMs believed that, they would not favor Nc3 at a rate of 2:1. It is not more exact, it is just different. Yes, it maintains flexibility over the c-pawn, but it also does not control the center as well. As with every move in chess, there are pluses and minuses.
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Ellie
Body: <p>After 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5, what are the differences between 3. Nc3 and 3. Nd2?</p>
  
  <p>It seems 3. Nc3 is more popular, though after 3. ... dxe4, I failed to see the difference.</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2019-05-16T07:07:01.490Z
Comments.Text: Nd2 tries to avoid various unusual lines for black with an early g6 and fianchetto, because now c3 can be played to blunt the bishop. But as I play the exchange variation I'll let somebody who knows more about this answer properly.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ian Bush
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2019-05-16T14:12:19.677Z
Comments.Text: Possible duplicate of [Caro-Kann 3.Nd2: is it worthwhile delaying or avoiding 3...dxe4 to exploit the poor position on the d2 knight?](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/23549/caro-kann-3-nd2-is-it-worthwhile-delaying-or-avoiding-3-dxe4-to-exploit-the-p)
Comments.UserDisplayName: Herb
Tags: <opening><caro-kann>
Title: In Caro-Kann Defense, what are the differences between 3. Nc3 and 3. Nd2?
ThreadText: # In Caro-Kann Defense, what are the differences between 3. Nc3 and 3. Nd2?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2019-05-16)
  
  After 1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5, what are the differences between 3. Nc3 and 3. Nd2?
  
  It seems 3. Nc3 is more popular, though after 3. ... dxe4, I failed to see the difference.
  
  **Tags:** opening, caro-kann
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Nd2 tries to avoid various unusual lines for black with an early g6 and fianchetto, because now c3 can be played to blunt the bishop. But as I play the exchange variation I'll let somebody who knows more about this answer properly.  
  > **username_2**: Possible duplicate of [Caro-Kann 3.Nd2: is it worthwhile delaying or avoiding 3...dxe4 to exploit the poor position on the d2 knight?](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/23549/caro-kann-3-nd2-is-it-worthwhile-delaying-or-avoiding-3-dxe4-to-exploit-the-p)  
  
  ---
  
  ## 6 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_12 on 2020-01-27. Score: 5 | Accepted answer
  
  ## `3.Nd2` is more exact as it maintains flexibility over the `c`-pawn!
  
  How that might be relevant becomes clearer when considering specific cases, for instance, as [pointed out by username_3](https://chess.stackexchange.com/a/24494/3594), `3.Nd2` avoids the possibility of `3...g6.`
  
  More precisely, in view of the concrete `3...g6` option:
  
  ## `3.Nc3`
  
  * `Nc3` blocks the `c`-pawn and allows black to comfortably aim for the solid kingside fianchetto setup with `3...g6`, providing the `g7` bishop decent scope on the long `a1-h8` diagonal along which multiple
    white targets stand. Although the immediate `e5` response in an attempt to close the diagonal is possible, black is well able to keep playing on the dark squares and undermine white's `d4,e5` setup with early `f6, c5` and white has to
    invest extra tempo to reinforce with `c3`. Moreover, white often ends up with a temporarily (until `f4` can be played) weak isolated pawn on `e5`
    which black should target.
  * With the fiachetto'ed bishop on `g7`, black wants to keep the play on the *dark squares* and further enable their bishop. In view of this, the delayed advance of the `c2`-pawn means white is slower in shifting the central tension over to *light squares*, which in turn means black gets comfortable equalising chances, as their fight for the center goes unchallenged.
  
  For a demonstration of the `3.Nc3 g6` line, first game that springs to mind is [Smyslov vs Seirawan](https://lichess.org/QZvleaPA), where black benefited from a better fight for the center, exploiting the pressure on the long diagonal and white's delayed `c`-pawn advance to trade the `c7` for the `d4` pawn and establish a pawn majority in the center (see the diagrams below, progression from left to right). And black proceeded to draw the game comfortably while having the better endgame (dominating white's pawns on the queenside after `c4-b5` conceding an outpost to the `d7` knight).
  
  ![](https://i.sstatic.net/kVZlSm.jpg)
  ![](https://i.sstatic.net/FtWxzm.jpg)
  ![](https://i.sstatic.net/Kkf2Nm.jpg)
  
  Caption:
  
  * **Left:** `d4` is not firmly defended and cannot be reinforced with `c2-c3`, thus remains prone to exchanges with the `c7-c5` pawn followed by the `e5` advance.
  * **Middle and right:** White's `Ne2, c4` has been too slow (green), thus, black finds a timely resolution of white's central pawns (red), after which black achieves a clear pawn majority (right diagram) in the center (blue).
  
  ## `3.Nd2`
  
  * `3.Nd2` instead of `Nc3`, maintains flexibility over the `c`-pawn, in particular, it prevents `3...g6` as white can readily strike in the center (with `c4`) and immediately challenge black on the light squares (diagram below), specially in reply to black setups typified by the pervious diagrams.
  
  ![](https://i.sstatic.net/FXdDM.jpg)
  
  * Alternatively, if instead of an early `f6` black opts for `Bg4` pinning the `f3` knight and undermining `d4`'s defense, then white has the important fortifying option of `c2-c3` readily available. Therefore, after `3.Nd2`, the `g7` bishop stands poorly on the long diagonal which renders the whole `3...g6` option much less attractive for black.
  
  ![](https://i.sstatic.net/h8G9j.jpg)
  
  In contrast to the game against [V. Smyslov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Smyslov), [Karpov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatoly_Karpov) never extended the same kindness towards [Seirawan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasser_Seirawan) and always played the more exact `3.Nd2` (example games: [(1)](https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1066994), [(2)](https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1067000), [(3)](https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1067004)).
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_13**: Your opening statement, "3.Nd2 is more exact as it maintains flexibility over the c-pawn!" is factually wrong in that it is not "more exact". First, if GMs believed that, they would not favor Nc3 at a rate of 2:1. It is not more exact, it is just different. Yes, it maintains flexibility over the c-pawn, but it also does not control the center as well. As with every move in chess, there are pluses and minuses.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_3 on 2019-05-16. Score: 5
  
  `3.Nc3` allows White to play the [Two Knights Attack](https://lichess.org/study/4Aqycynk/KBOAk93S) with `2.Nf3`. It does block the c-pawn, though, so Black can play `3...g6`, the [Gurgenidze System](https://lichess.org/study/4Aqycynk/3Zjm99OY), because White cannot protect the d-pawn with the c-pawn.
  
  There is also the rarely played [Gurgenidze Counter Attack](https://lichess.org/study/4Aqycynk/prcSJeZ2) `3...b5`. A very dubious line that can be stopped easily with `a3`.
  
  `3.Nd2` tries to avoid these lines, but it makes the Two Knights Attack impossible, a line that is very popular nowadays. It also blocks the view of White's dark-squared bishop, so Black can develop their kingside knight to `h6` if they want.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_4**: I don't get this, the Two Knights Attack is already impossible after 2.d4; a move played on turn 3 can not make something on turn 2 possible, that's in the past. As you say 3.Nd2 is good against ...g6, so there must be some other move by black (besides ...dxe4) to take advantage of it or it would be much more popular.  
  > **username_3**: `d4` is a move in almost every line of the Two Knights, although it is often played a bit later. There is one line with `d3`, but it's rather rare and probably a bit too passive.  
  > **username_4**: So what is the downside of Nd2? How can black make use of it?  
  > **username_3**: @username_4 There is no real downside, that's why it is still played so often.  
  > **username_4**: In my database I see that 3.Nc3 is more than twice as popular as 3.Nd2. IThe question asks why. Your answer says that 3.Nd2 has an advantage (it's better against ...g6) and that it has no real downside. I don't understand.  
  > **username_5**: I don't know these systems, but I suspect that the trade off is: 3. Nc3 blocks the c-pawn, 3.Nd2 blocks the dark-square bishop.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_6 on 2019-05-17. Score: 2
  
  Yes, if Black plays 3...dxe4 there is no difference whatsoever.
  
  The difference between 3.Nc3 and 3.Nd2 is the sidelines they allow/prevent Black from playing. For example, 3.Nc3 may encourage 3...b5!?, trying to harass the knight.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_7 on 2019-05-16. Score: 2
  
  Nd2 avoids this line:
  
  1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 b5!? 4.ed5 b4 followed by recapturing on d5
  
  IM Jeremey Silman was a proponent of this for Black as a surprise weapon.
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_8 on 2020-04-13. Score: 0
  
  It doesn't really matter – the only difference is against g6, which is considered not very good by theory and is rare. Nd2 is slightly better against g6, and technically Nd2 might be slightly more precise, but at the end of the day 99% of the time it doesn't matter (and even Nc3 g6 isn't bad at all).
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: Thank you for your answer! If Nd2 is more precise than Nc3, why it is rarer in top levels?  
  > **username_8**: It's marginally more precise, doesn't really matter. You might WANT to see g6 just to avoid theory and get a better position.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_9 on 2020-01-28. Score: -4
  
  It is subtle and positional. It avoids lines white does not want to see and does it without any drawbacks that are significant.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_9**: another coward downvotes without giving a reason.  
  > **username_10**: Ok, I will give a reason before downvoting, as per your implied request. This answer is vague and hollow. Why would you not give examples of the lines that white wishes to avoid? If it is too subtle for you to explain properly, then there is no reason for you to answer the question to begin with. There is nothing new that this answer brings to the table that other answers haven't dealt with already.  
  > **username_9**: if it is not incorrect it should just be ignored.  if it is correct it should be  upvoted.  ONLY when it is totally wrong and misleading should it be downvoted.  i do not agree with  your reason but salute you for being the only person who at least gives some reason whether i agree or not with your reason.  
  > **username_11**: @edwinaoliver Actually if you hover over the downvote button, the text describing it says "this answer is not useful", not "this answer is totally wrong and misleading".  
  
  ---
  
  