Body: <p>The purpose of this query is to <strong>discuss</strong> a topic that I am totally ignorant 
  of, rather than pose <strong>one specific question.</strong>  Although such a query does 
  invite <strong>opinions</strong> based on intuition, I am <strong>also</strong> looking for objective 
  facts based on people's experience.  If this query is inappropriate for this 
  website, please suggest a different forum.</p>
  
  <p>I am wondering whether anyone has begun combining <strong>freeware</strong> AI with 
  <strong>dynamically generated</strong> endgame tablebases to attack chess studies.</p>
  
  <p>The following link discusses freeware chess AI: <br>
  <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leela_Chess_Zero" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leela_Chess_Zero</a></p>
  
  <p>The following link discusses chess AI in general: <br>
  <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/1003/a-purely-self-trained-chess-ai?rq=1">A purely self-trained chess AI</a></p>
  
  <p>The following link <strong>may relate to</strong> building a tablebase on-the-fly to attack
  a specific position: <br> 
  <a href="http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/discussion-board/viewtopic.php?p=16108#p16108" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/discussion-board/viewtopic.php?p=16108#p16108</a></p>
  
  <p>The general algorithm for constructing a tablebase is discussed here: <br>
  <a href="http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=51847" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=51847</a></p>
  
  <p>Suppose (for example) Leela Chess Zero (with standard 6 man tablebases) was 
  used to play N games against itself, always starting from a specific position.  Assume that
  Leela Chess Zero (somehow) learns from each game and stores the knowledge.
  The (hopefully plausible) intent is that by playing these games, Leela Chess Zero acquires pertinent
  <strong>insights</strong> that allow it to determine "best play".</p>
  
  <p>The following links suggest sample positions to attack: <br>
  <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/23459/lichess-puzzle-82753-can-white-win-with-a-queen-and-two-pawns-vs-rook-and-four?rq=1">LiChess puzzle 82753: can white win with a queen and two pawns vs. rook and four pawns?</a> <br>
  <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/23837/solvable-studies-that-computers-fail-to-crack">Solvable studies that computers fail to crack</a> <br>
  <a href="https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/8933/are-there-positions-which-cannot-be-properly-analyzed-by-any-computer?noredirect=1&amp;lq=1">Are there positions which cannot be properly analyzed by any computer?</a> <br></p>
  
  <p>Can such an approach be implemented on a <strong>modern, moderately priced home pc</strong>? <br>
  To attack a typical position: <br>
   1. How large should N be (i.e. how many games played) to give Leela Chess Zero 
  a plausible chance of "learning"
  insights into the position? <br>
   2. What time controls should be employed and how long will the process take? <br>
   3. How much memory (? + GPU memory) should be employed? <br>
   4. How strong a cpu (? + GPU-processor) should be employed?</p>
  
  <p>Assuming that the above issues are resolved, how does one determine what the 
  insights are?  Would it be possible to identify a position that Leela Chess Zero
  categorizes as both obtainable and "critical"?</p>
  
  <p>Assume that Leela identifies a specific (critical and obtainable) position via
  its FEN.  Would it be possible to build a tablebase (from scratch) with the 
  critical position as a starting point, so that only those positions that might
  legally result from this starting point are relevant?  </p>
  
  <p>Suppose that the approach described in the previous paragraph was feasible, with
  a clear determination reached of [win for white, win for black, or draw].  Could
  these results be <strong>fed back into Leela Chess Zero</strong> so that it used this result
  + all the learning that it had achieved on the position, to start a new series of
  N games (with Leela Chess Zero playing itself) from the original starting position?</p>
  
  <p>Is it plausible that the iterative process of combining Leela Chess Zero with dynamically generated
  tablebases could reach a definitive conclusion of (for example) a complex middle game
  with many pieces?</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-03-25T02:19:14.873Z
Comments.Text: This question/discussion is too broad for this forum.  https://forum.chesstalk.com/ is a better forum.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Mike Jones
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2020-03-25T20:13:07.920Z
Comments.Text: @MikeJones ",,, discussion is too broad...".  Okay.  I actually want to discuss the overall topic, rather than a specific question.  Therefore, I will post a query on another forum that links to this query.
Comments.UserDisplayName: user2661923
Tags: <engines><tablebases><leela>
Title: Using Freeware AI and Dynamically Generated Endgame Tablebases
ThreadText: # Using Freeware AI and Dynamically Generated Endgame Tablebases
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2020-03-24)
  
  The purpose of this query is to **discuss** a topic that I am totally ignorant
  of, rather than pose **one specific question.** Although such a query does
  invite **opinions** based on intuition, I am **also** looking for objective
  facts based on people's experience. If this query is inappropriate for this
  website, please suggest a different forum.
  
  I am wondering whether anyone has begun combining **freeware** AI with
  **dynamically generated** endgame tablebases to attack chess studies.
  
  The following link discusses freeware chess AI:   
  <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leela_Chess_Zero>
  
  The following link discusses chess AI in general:   
  [A purely self-trained chess AI](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/1003/a-purely-self-trained-chess-ai?rq=1)
  
  The following link **may relate to** building a tablebase on-the-fly to attack
  a specific position:   
  <http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/discussion-board/viewtopic.php?p=16108#p16108>
  
  The general algorithm for constructing a tablebase is discussed here:   
  <http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?t=51847>
  
  Suppose (for example) Leela Chess Zero (with standard 6 man tablebases) was
  used to play N games against itself, always starting from a specific position. Assume that
  Leela Chess Zero (somehow) learns from each game and stores the knowledge.
  The (hopefully plausible) intent is that by playing these games, Leela Chess Zero acquires pertinent
  **insights** that allow it to determine "best play".
  
  The following links suggest sample positions to attack:   
  [LiChess puzzle 82753: can white win with a queen and two pawns vs. rook and four pawns?](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/23459/lichess-puzzle-82753-can-white-win-with-a-queen-and-two-pawns-vs-rook-and-four?rq=1)   
  [Solvable studies that computers fail to crack](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/23837/solvable-studies-that-computers-fail-to-crack)   
  [Are there positions which cannot be properly analyzed by any computer?](https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/8933/are-there-positions-which-cannot-be-properly-analyzed-by-any-computer?noredirect=1&lq=1)
  
  Can such an approach be implemented on a **modern, moderately priced home pc**?   
  To attack a typical position:   
  1. How large should N be (i.e. how many games played) to give Leela Chess Zero
  a plausible chance of "learning"
  insights into the position?   
  2. What time controls should be employed and how long will the process take?   
  3. How much memory (? + GPU memory) should be employed?   
  4. How strong a cpu (? + GPU-processor) should be employed?
  
  Assuming that the above issues are resolved, how does one determine what the
  insights are? Would it be possible to identify a position that Leela Chess Zero
  categorizes as both obtainable and "critical"?
  
  Assume that Leela identifies a specific (critical and obtainable) position via
  its FEN. Would it be possible to build a tablebase (from scratch) with the
  critical position as a starting point, so that only those positions that might
  legally result from this starting point are relevant?
  
  Suppose that the approach described in the previous paragraph was feasible, with
  a clear determination reached of [win for white, win for black, or draw]. Could
  these results be **fed back into Leela Chess Zero** so that it used this result
  + all the learning that it had achieved on the position, to start a new series of
  N games (with Leela Chess Zero playing itself) from the original starting position?
  
  Is it plausible that the iterative process of combining Leela Chess Zero with dynamically generated
  tablebases could reach a definitive conclusion of (for example) a complex middle game
  with many pieces?
  
  **Tags:** engines, tablebases, leela
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: This question/discussion is too broad for this forum.  https://forum.chesstalk.com/ is a better forum.  
  > **username_0**: @MikeJones ",,, discussion is too broad...".  Okay.  I actually want to discuss the overall topic, rather than a specific question.  Therefore, I will post a query on another forum that links to this query.  
  
  ---
  
  ## 0 answers
  
  