Answers.Body: <p>You could try to complete your second illegal move in a position your opponent cannot win while simultaneously agreeing to a draw at exactly at the same time that your flag falls, but closer examination would probably reveal that one thing happened before the others.</p>
  <p>As for &quot;dead position&quot; draws, it's <em>technically</em> true that if the game ended in a draw due to some other reason, it also necessarily means that there is no legal series of moves for either side that could checkmate the opponent, but I don't think that's really in the spirit of the question.</p>
  <p>The 75-move and 5-move rules do not involve claims, so I think the issue with choosing the claim like the scenario with the 50-move and 3-move rules would not apply. But the rules specifically contemplate that &quot;If one or both of the following occur(s) then the game is drawn&quot; in regards to the 75-move and 5-move rules. So you could argue that &quot;simultaneous 75-move and 5-move&quot; is actually the <em>same</em> way, since it's one rule making that situation a draw.</p>
  <p>But, I think a simultaneous stalemate and 75-move draw would work. The 75-move rule explicitly states that checkmate takes precedence, but is silent on stalemate.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-12-13T04:40:23.443Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2023-12-13T04:40:23.443Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: D M
Answers.Body: <blockquote>
  <p>Can a player make two claims simultaneously?</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>No. When you make a draw claim your are asking the arbiter to perform the task of investigating / verifying your claim. One arbiter can only investigate one claim at a time.</p>
  <p>Here is what should happen when you claim a draw:</p>
  <ol>
  <li>Arbiter asks your opponent if they would accept a draw. This is because a failed draw claim turns into a formal draw offer and if your opponent is happy to accept a draw then there is no need to proceed further. The game is agreed drawn</li>
  <li>Arbiter asks if you touched a piece before starting the draw claim procedure. This is because if you did then you are obliged to move a piece and can't claim a draw on that move</li>
  <li>Arbiter actually checks the details of the claim. Is it valid? This involves checking the moves made in some way. For most tournaments this means looking at the scoresheets. If the games are being broadcast then it can be easier (for both handwriting and accuracy reasons) to use the replayer on the broadcasting site.</li>
  <li>If the claim is found to be valid then the game is declared drawn.</li>
  <li>If the claim is found to be not valid then in the first instance a draw offer is made to the opponent (they can still change their mind and accept even if they declined at step 1). In the case of a 3-fold repetition where the the claimant said that move X would repeat the position for the third time, that move move has to be made. Otherwise the claimant is free to choose any legal move. Meanwhile the opponent gets an additional 2 minutes on the clock as compensation for the disturbance. The game then continues.</li>
  </ol>
  <blockquote>
  <p>Or one after the other?</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>If the first claim fails then further claims, either on the same move or on later moves, are allowed. If you make further failed claims then each failed claim results in an additional 2 minutes for the opponent. You cannot limit this potential time loss by making two claims at once.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-12-13T09:49:46.567Z
Answers.Text: _"Arbiter asks if you touched a piece before starting the draw claim procedure. This is because if you did then you are obliged to move a piece and can't claim a draw on that move"_ An interesting detail I had not realized before: If your claim would be "By moving Qe2 I will cause a 3-fold repetition" and you touch the Queen before claiming, [FIDE rule 9.4](https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023) says you lose the right to claim, even if you still are able to make the move you would use to claim the draw. Interesting!
Answers.UserDisplayName: JiK
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-12-13T12:58:26.347Z
Answers.Text: That's a very interesting post about the arbitration procedure for draw claims! However I feel it doesn't really answer the question of whether a situation is possible where the game on the board is both in a 50-move and a repetition situation. Also, in my experience and quite thankfully, almost all games end *without* an arbiter coming to investigate anything. Finally, the result of the arbiter's investigation is only going to be a consequence of the situation on the board; answering by saying "it's a draw if the arbiter says that the draw claim is valid" is a bit circular.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Stef
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-12-13T16:57:22.230Z
Answers.Text: @Stef What part of "Can a player make two claims simultaneously?" do you not understand?
Answers.UserDisplayName: Brian Towers
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-12-13T17:36:40.430Z
Answers.Text: @BrianTowers What part of "Before writing a rhetorical question in comments, I should first make sure it doesn't sound extremely aggressive and demeaning" do you not understand?
Answers.UserDisplayName: Stef
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-12-25T22:49:02.687Z
Answers.Text: How do the mandatory draws for the 75-move rule and fivefold repetition interact with point 2 on your list?
Answers.UserDisplayName: Joseph Sible-Reinstate Monica
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-12-12T13:36:20.893Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2023-12-12T13:44:15.613Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2023-12-12T13:44:15.613Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: Brian Towers
Body: <p>We know that a game can't end in checkmate and draw by 50 move rule. The checkmate will take precedence.</p>
  <p>But just for fun let's ask: is it possible for a game to end in both draw by repetition &amp; draw by 50 move? Can a player make two claims simultaneously? Or one after the other?</p>
  <p>Or can two players simultaneously resign?</p>
  <p>These are just examples: the main question is what are all the combinations of multiple game-end conditions?</p>
  
Tags: <rules><draw><claim-draw><winning>
Title: Can the game end in multiple ways at the same time?
ThreadText: # Can the game end in multiple ways at the same time?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2023-12-12)
  
  We know that a game can't end in checkmate and draw by 50 move rule. The checkmate will take precedence.
  
  But just for fun let's ask: is it possible for a game to end in both draw by repetition & draw by 50 move? Can a player make two claims simultaneously? Or one after the other?
  
  Or can two players simultaneously resign?
  
  These are just examples: the main question is what are all the combinations of multiple game-end conditions?
  
  **Tags:** rules, draw, claim-draw, winning
  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_2 on 2023-12-12. Score: 7 | Accepted answer
  
  > Can a player make two claims simultaneously?
  
  No. When you make a draw claim your are asking the arbiter to perform the task of investigating / verifying your claim. One arbiter can only investigate one claim at a time.
  
  Here is what should happen when you claim a draw:
  
  1. Arbiter asks your opponent if they would accept a draw. This is because a failed draw claim turns into a formal draw offer and if your opponent is happy to accept a draw then there is no need to proceed further. The game is agreed drawn
  2. Arbiter asks if you touched a piece before starting the draw claim procedure. This is because if you did then you are obliged to move a piece and can't claim a draw on that move
  3. Arbiter actually checks the details of the claim. Is it valid? This involves checking the moves made in some way. For most tournaments this means looking at the scoresheets. If the games are being broadcast then it can be easier (for both handwriting and accuracy reasons) to use the replayer on the broadcasting site.
  4. If the claim is found to be valid then the game is declared drawn.
  5. If the claim is found to be not valid then in the first instance a draw offer is made to the opponent (they can still change their mind and accept even if they declined at step 1). In the case of a 3-fold repetition where the the claimant said that move X would repeat the position for the third time, that move move has to be made. Otherwise the claimant is free to choose any legal move. Meanwhile the opponent gets an additional 2 minutes on the clock as compensation for the disturbance. The game then continues.
  
  > Or one after the other?
  
  If the first claim fails then further claims, either on the same move or on later moves, are allowed. If you make further failed claims then each failed claim results in an additional 2 minutes for the opponent. You cannot limit this potential time loss by making two claims at once.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_3**: _"Arbiter asks if you touched a piece before starting the draw claim procedure. This is because if you did then you are obliged to move a piece and can't claim a draw on that move"_ An interesting detail I had not realized before: If your claim would be "By moving Qe2 I will cause a 3-fold repetition" and you touch the Queen before claiming, [FIDE rule 9.4](https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023) says you lose the right to claim, even if you still are able to make the move you would use to claim the draw. Interesting!  
  > **username_4**: That's a very interesting post about the arbitration procedure for draw claims! However I feel it doesn't really answer the question of whether a situation is possible where the game on the board is both in a 50-move and a repetition situation. Also, in my experience and quite thankfully, almost all games end *without* an arbiter coming to investigate anything. Finally, the result of the arbiter's investigation is only going to be a consequence of the situation on the board; answering by saying "it's a draw if the arbiter says that the draw claim is valid" is a bit circular.  
  > **username_2**: @username_4 What part of "Can a player make two claims simultaneously?" do you not understand?  
  > **username_4**: @BrianTowers What part of "Before writing a rhetorical question in comments, I should first make sure it doesn't sound extremely aggressive and demeaning" do you not understand?  
  > **username_5**: How do the mandatory draws for the 75-move rule and fivefold repetition interact with point 2 on your list?  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_1 on 2023-12-13. Score: 7
  
  You could try to complete your second illegal move in a position your opponent cannot win while simultaneously agreeing to a draw at exactly at the same time that your flag falls, but closer examination would probably reveal that one thing happened before the others.
  
  As for "dead position" draws, it's *technically* true that if the game ended in a draw due to some other reason, it also necessarily means that there is no legal series of moves for either side that could checkmate the opponent, but I don't think that's really in the spirit of the question.
  
  The 75-move and 5-move rules do not involve claims, so I think the issue with choosing the claim like the scenario with the 50-move and 3-move rules would not apply. But the rules specifically contemplate that "If one or both of the following occur(s) then the game is drawn" in regards to the 75-move and 5-move rules. So you could argue that "simultaneous 75-move and 5-move" is actually the *same* way, since it's one rule making that situation a draw.
  
  But, I think a simultaneous stalemate and 75-move draw would work. The 75-move rule explicitly states that checkmate takes precedence, but is silent on stalemate.
  
  
  ---
  
  