Answers.Body: <p>This seems to give Black a <em>bigger</em> advantage than White has under the conventional rules.</p>
  <p>From Black's point of view, the opening move sequence WBB is provably preferable to the move sequence BWB. Black can still play any first move they wish to, but they have the added advantage of doing so after White is already committed to their choice of first move.</p>
  <p>So your proposal is better for Black than BWBWBWB... (which is the conventional sequence with colours reversed).</p>
  <p>However, an intruiguing idea along the lines you suggest might be: two moves for White, then two moves for Black, then reverting to WBWBWB... thereafter. Black now has the advantage of seeing two White moves before having to make any decisions. It doesn't seem so easily <em>provable</em> that this is helpful for Black, because some possible White choices on the first two moves remove some of Black's first-move options (specifically, if White moves something to the 5th or 6th rank). However, I can't see any promising line for White to exploit that - for example W:d4+d5 can be met by B:c6+cxd5. So I think this sequence may end up being &quot;fairer&quot; than the conventional sequence. I would like to try it out!</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2024-11-02T19:10:29.587Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2024-11-02T19:16:54.550Z
Answers.LastEditDate: 2024-11-02T19:16:54.550Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: James Martin
Answers.Body: <blockquote>
  <p>Would this make the game more fair?</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>That depends on what you call &quot;fair&quot;: Consider:</p>
  <ol>
  <li>e2-e4 d7-d5, dxe</li>
  </ol>
  <blockquote>
  <p>Any computer studies on this?</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>To come up with above variation I don't even need a board, much less a computer. Calculating the chances of starting the game with a pawn down (for white), respectively up (for black) is left as an exercise for the reader.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2024-11-03T20:37:05.570Z
Answers.LastActivityDate: 2024-11-03T20:37:05.570Z
Answers.UserDisplayName: bakunin
Body: <p>Would this make the game more fair?</p>
  <p>Any computer studies on this?</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-02T08:19:34.630Z
Comments.Text: Well against all common openings I can thing of black can just "become" white - e.g. 1e4 e5 Nf6  or 1d4 d5 c5 or 1c4 c5 <favourite symmetric English line> or 1 Nf3 d5 c5 or  1e3 e5 d5 or 1 d3 e5 d5 etc. So the questions are 1) Can white avoid that? 2) Can black do better?
Comments.UserDisplayName: Ian Bush
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-02T14:04:55.233Z
Comments.Text: If that's the best Black can do then at least White gets to choose the opening.  But 1 e4 seems suspicious because of Nf6+Nxe4 and Black may be able to similarly improve on the others, even 1 Nf3 e5+e4 (maybe g5+g4 instead, to answer 2 Nd4 with e5).
Comments.UserDisplayName: Noam D. Elkies
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-11-04T08:28:41.783Z
Comments.Text: @NoamD.Elkies: 1.Nf3 e5 2.Nxe5 += +1.0; 1.g4 Nf6 2.g5 Nh5= +0.2, 2...Nd5 3.c4 ⩲ +0.6; 3.e4 Nb6 = +0.2 by LiChess Stockfish. Obviously all (no collision) openings in this variant can be assessed, at least the end position. I agree with Ian.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Tags: <chess-variants>
Title: What if black got 2 moves in the opening and then back to 1 move?
ThreadText: # What if black got 2 moves in the opening and then back to 1 move?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2024-11-02)
  
  Would this make the game more fair?
  
  Any computer studies on this?
  
  **Tags:** chess-variants
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: Well against all common openings I can thing of black can just "become" white - e.g. 1e4 e5 Nf6  or 1d4 d5 c5 or 1c4 c5 <favourite symmetric English line> or 1 Nf3 d5 c5 or  1e3 e5 d5 or 1 d3 e5 d5 etc. So the questions are 1) Can white avoid that? 2) Can black do better?  
  > **username_2**: If that's the best Black can do then at least White gets to choose the opening.  But 1 e4 seems suspicious because of Nf6+Nxe4 and Black may be able to similarly improve on the others, even 1 Nf3 e5+e4 (maybe g5+g4 instead, to answer 2 Nd4 with e5).  
  > **username_3**: @NoamD.Elkies: 1.Nf3 e5 2.Nxe5 += +1.0; 1.g4 Nf6 2.g5 Nh5= +0.2, 2...Nd5 3.c4 ⩲ +0.6; 3.e4 Nb6 = +0.2 by LiChess Stockfish. Obviously all (no collision) openings in this variant can be assessed, at least the end position. I agree with Ian.  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_4 on 2024-11-02. Score: 4
  
  This seems to give Black a *bigger* advantage than White has under the conventional rules.
  
  From Black's point of view, the opening move sequence WBB is provably preferable to the move sequence BWB. Black can still play any first move they wish to, but they have the added advantage of doing so after White is already committed to their choice of first move.
  
  So your proposal is better for Black than BWBWBWB... (which is the conventional sequence with colours reversed).
  
  However, an intruiguing idea along the lines you suggest might be: two moves for White, then two moves for Black, then reverting to WBWBWB... thereafter. Black now has the advantage of seeing two White moves before having to make any decisions. It doesn't seem so easily *provable* that this is helpful for Black, because some possible White choices on the first two moves remove some of Black's first-move options (specifically, if White moves something to the 5th or 6th rank). However, I can't see any promising line for White to exploit that - for example W:d4+d5 can be met by B:c6+cxd5. So I think this sequence may end up being "fairer" than the conventional sequence. I would like to try it out!
  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_5 on 2024-11-03. Score: -1
  
  > Would this make the game more fair?
  
  That depends on what you call "fair": Consider:
  
  1. e2-e4 d7-d5, dxe
  
  > Any computer studies on this?
  
  To come up with above variation I don't even need a board, much less a computer. Calculating the chances of starting the game with a pawn down (for white), respectively up (for black) is left as an exercise for the reader.
  
  
  ---
  
  