Answers.Body: <p>In chess, it is generally considered illegal for someone to physically wake a player who has fallen asleep during a game. According to the FIDE Laws of Chess, specifically Article 12.9, &quot;During the game, a player is not allowed to have any electronic device in the playing venue. If it is evident that a player has such a device on their person in the playing venue, the player shall lose the game.&quot; While falling asleep during a game is not explicitly mentioned, it is typically considered the player's responsibility to remain alert and attentive. If a player is found asleep, it may be considered a violation of fair play and could result in penalties or loss of the game, depending on the specific tournament or competition rules.</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2023-07-17T16:48:52.043Z
Answers.Text: Singularly uncompelling. No idea how cell phone relates.
Answers.UserDisplayName: releseabe
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Answers.CreationDate: 2023-07-18T15:21:14.883Z
Answers.Text: "_In chess, it is generally considered illegal for someone to physically wake a player who has fallen asleep during a game._"  No downvote but **Citation Needed**.
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Answers.UserDisplayName: GilbertJJ
Answers.Body: <blockquote>
  <p>A player falls asleep during the game and his friend wakes him -- illegal?</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>No.</p>
  <p>In fact article 12.2.6 of the <a href="https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023" rel="noreferrer">FIDE Laws of Chess</a> suggests that the arbiter should do so if they see a player asleep:</p>
  <blockquote>
  <p>12.2   The arbiter shall:
  ...
  12.2.6    take special measures in the interests of disabled players <strong>and those who need medical attention</strong>,</p>
  </blockquote>
  <p>Falling asleep at the chess board is not normal healthy behaviour. It may be innocent but it could also be the result of a medical condition.</p>
  <p>In any case it should be a worrying event for the arbiter. The last thing the arbiter wants is for a player to die during the tournament. The arbiter should urgently attempt to wake the player to see if medical intervention is required.</p>
  
Answers.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Answers.CreationDate: 2023-07-13T15:17:38.287Z
Answers.Text: > Falling asleep at the chess board is not normal healthy behaviour. If you're tired, especially after hours of thinking, sleeping at the chessboard is like when sleeping at your car
Answers.UserDisplayName: Nicolas Formichella
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Answers.Text: Interesting because I think the TD took the complainer's side rather than cite and use the rule u cite -- and this TD was a very experienced one and also a titled player with many decades of experience. I forget -- the complainer, also someone with many years experience, apparently thought he was in the right. I wonder when this rule entered the books (since this occurred almost half a century ago) and if it was applied to sleeping during the game specifically. Also, what if the sleeper wanted a nap and expected to awaken soon? Maybe he should have slept away from the board...
Answers.UserDisplayName: releseabe
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Answers.Text: It feels like this rule wouldn't apply if the TD was reasonably confident there wasn't an underlying condition and the player had simply stayed up too late. In some settings (schools), it's much more likely a player would fall asleep because they'd stayed up late a lot, than that there was some underlying issue (depending if the player otherwise appears healthy, and if their teammates seem concerned for the game than for their health).
Answers.UserDisplayName: user7868
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Answers.CreationDate: 2023-07-14T08:53:18.567Z
Answers.Text: "Reasonably confident" doesn't remove liability. If there is an underlying medical condition, the TD declares that the sleeping player is fine, and then the sleeper dies during the game, he's going to need to prove where his confidence came from. If the game is somehow a "24 hour no-sleep chess tournament", then sure, but if not... a random player falling asleep is exceptional enough to warrant caution.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Nelson
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Answers.Text: I imagine he was yawning a lot, maybe he even told people that he'd stayed up late. I think most observant people can tell when someone is really tired. The friend probably knew what was going on.
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Answers.Text: The rules you quoted pertains to the arbiter, not a third party. So I don't see how this answers the question.
Answers.UserDisplayName: ikegami
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Answers.CreationDate: 2023-07-14T22:20:55.107Z
Answers.Text: The rule says that _the arbiter shall_ etc. But the question asks if the _player's friend_ may wake him. Is not the distinction important?  My first thought on reading the question was “no, the sleeper's friend should not have woken him; the friend should have asked the arbiter to do it”. (And then the arbiter should have done it.)
Answers.UserDisplayName: Mark Dominus
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Answers.CreationDate: 2023-07-14T22:24:42.393Z
Answers.Text: (To my surprise, I find that although nonplayers are  generally excluded from the playing area, there seems to be no rule against a player communicating with _another player_, discussing the position with them, asking them for advice, etc.)
Answers.UserDisplayName: Mark Dominus
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Answers.CreationDate: 2023-07-19T20:45:27.773Z
Answers.Text: @MarkDominus: I think there should be a designated person to wake a player, not make it so that someone with a friend has an advantage over someone who relies on the TD. As far as advice, surely there is a rule against this most intuitive of rules. Spectators were never excluded from the playing area when I have played or even at Lone Pine which did have spectators watching GMs play standing by their boards IIRC although for some events, I am sure the TD might choose to do this -- world championship u sure don't see random spectators by the board but instead they are in a special area.
Answers.UserDisplayName: releseabe
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Answers.UserDisplayName: Brian Towers
Body: <p>I witnessed this: a player who burnt the candle at both ends fell asleep during the game and his friend woke him up. His opponent vehemently objected. How should this have been handled?</p>
  <p>I do not recall if his friend simply shook him awake or used the pretext of bringing him a sandwich -- the latter I do not think could be objected to nor if a phone call had been made to the site asking for a player (Does a director tell the a player during a game if a non-emergency call is received? this was pre-cell phone.)</p>
  <p>I do not recall how the director handled things. Forfeiting the sleeper seems extreme -- a warning, which does nothing except if the director said, &quot;if this happens again and your friend wakes you up I consider this illegal aid and I will forfeit you.&quot;</p>
  <p>The opponent wanting to win that way seems more than a little unsportsmanlike but if the official rule is that not only can a third party not wake someone but even his opponent can't, then rules should be observed.</p>
  <p>My opinion: I think the rulebook should explicitly say that waking someone should be allowed and even the director can do this. Maybe the rules do this.</p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-07-13T08:03:41.923Z
Comments.Text: "Wer schläft, sündigt nicht." (German proverb) So rather the friend is the one to throw the rule book at...
Comments.UserDisplayName: Hauke Reddmann
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-07-13T17:59:28.487Z
Comments.Text: On SCTV, there "Chess sunrise semester" said that "Next time, we will discuss the strategy of eating your lunch on the board" ... sandwich reminded me of that!
Comments.UserDisplayName: JosephDoggie
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-07-13T19:29:24.533Z
Comments.Text: @HaukeReddmann: Das stimmt, but the friend could have at best been kicked out (not so easy in a college cafeteria IIRC where was held). Could a spectator have "legally" gotten the TD's attention or should the TD have to be informed by only the sleeper's opponent or another player? I think chess could have one overriding principle: sportsmanship, goal to produce a good game, not time forfeit.
Comments.UserDisplayName: releseabe
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-07-13T19:36:23.013Z
Comments.Text: @JosephDoggie: More extreme to me and this really happened is a large, unkempt opponent flossing -- he did stop when I asked but why he started, I will never know. Have these guys ever been on a date??
Comments.UserDisplayName: releseabe
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-07-14T04:59:21.617Z
Comments.Text: I'm always amused by the weird intricacies and rules in professional chess (yes, touch-move is also a weird rule), although I can see why those rules are in place. Intuitively, it's always feels like "just play fairly like a normal person!" but of course, "fair" and "normal" is what the rules are trying to define here.
Comments.UserDisplayName: justhalf
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2023-07-14T14:19:59.400Z
Comments.Text: @justhalf: i think u mean tournament chess, not professional. Touch move is something any player who plays much soon learns the value of observing -- I recall playing various board games with people and it seemed normal to not just not observe or care about touching pieces (which led to just general disorder) but some thought requesting to take back a bad move as normal -- how weird that felt to me after years of tournament chess. kids learn so much about life simply by learning about how to behave during a chess game: being quiet, interacting with adults after the game etc.
Comments.UserDisplayName: releseabe
Tags: <rules>
Title: A player falls asleep during the game and his friend wakes him -- illegal?
ThreadText: # A player falls asleep during the game and his friend wakes him -- illegal?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2023-07-13)
  
  I witnessed this: a player who burnt the candle at both ends fell asleep during the game and his friend woke him up. His opponent vehemently objected. How should this have been handled?
  
  I do not recall if his friend simply shook him awake or used the pretext of bringing him a sandwich -- the latter I do not think could be objected to nor if a phone call had been made to the site asking for a player (Does a director tell the a player during a game if a non-emergency call is received? this was pre-cell phone.)
  
  I do not recall how the director handled things. Forfeiting the sleeper seems extreme -- a warning, which does nothing except if the director said, "if this happens again and your friend wakes you up I consider this illegal aid and I will forfeit you."
  
  The opponent wanting to win that way seems more than a little unsportsmanlike but if the official rule is that not only can a third party not wake someone but even his opponent can't, then rules should be observed.
  
  My opinion: I think the rulebook should explicitly say that waking someone should be allowed and even the director can do this. Maybe the rules do this.
  
  **Tags:** rules
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: "Wer schläft, sündigt nicht." (German proverb) So rather the friend is the one to throw the rule book at...  
  > **username_2**: On SCTV, there "Chess sunrise semester" said that "Next time, we will discuss the strategy of eating your lunch on the board" ... sandwich reminded me of that!  
  > **username_0**: @HaukeReddmann: Das stimmt, but the friend could have at best been kicked out (not so easy in a college cafeteria IIRC where was held). Could a spectator have "legally" gotten the TD's attention or should the TD have to be informed by only the sleeper's opponent or another player? I think chess could have one overriding principle: sportsmanship, goal to produce a good game, not time forfeit.  
  > **username_0**: @username_2: More extreme to me and this really happened is a large, unkempt opponent flossing -- he did stop when I asked but why he started, I will never know. Have these guys ever been on a date??  
  > **username_3**: I'm always amused by the weird intricacies and rules in professional chess (yes, touch-move is also a weird rule), although I can see why those rules are in place. Intuitively, it's always feels like "just play fairly like a normal person!" but of course, "fair" and "normal" is what the rules are trying to define here.  
  > **username_0**: @username_3: i think u mean tournament chess, not professional. Touch move is something any player who plays much soon learns the value of observing -- I recall playing various board games with people and it seemed normal to not just not observe or care about touching pieces (which led to just general disorder) but some thought requesting to take back a bad move as normal -- how weird that felt to me after years of tournament chess. kids learn so much about life simply by learning about how to behave during a chess game: being quiet, interacting with adults after the game etc.  
  
  ---
  
  ## 2 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_6 on 2023-07-13. Score: 35 | Accepted answer
  
  > A player falls asleep during the game and his friend wakes him -- illegal?
  
  No.
  
  In fact article 12.2.6 of the [FIDE Laws of Chess](https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012023) suggests that the arbiter should do so if they see a player asleep:
  
  > 12.2 The arbiter shall:
  > ...
  > 12.2.6 take special measures in the interests of disabled players **and those who need medical attention**,
  
  Falling asleep at the chess board is not normal healthy behaviour. It may be innocent but it could also be the result of a medical condition.
  
  In any case it should be a worrying event for the arbiter. The last thing the arbiter wants is for a player to die during the tournament. The arbiter should urgently attempt to wake the player to see if medical intervention is required.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_7**: > Falling asleep at the chess board is not normal healthy behaviour. If you're tired, especially after hours of thinking, sleeping at the chessboard is like when sleeping at your car  
  > **username_0**: Interesting because I think the TD took the complainer's side rather than cite and use the rule u cite -- and this TD was a very experienced one and also a titled player with many decades of experience. I forget -- the complainer, also someone with many years experience, apparently thought he was in the right. I wonder when this rule entered the books (since this occurred almost half a century ago) and if it was applied to sleeping during the game specifically. Also, what if the sleeper wanted a nap and expected to awaken soon? Maybe he should have slept away from the board...  
  > **username_8**: It feels like this rule wouldn't apply if the TD was reasonably confident there wasn't an underlying condition and the player had simply stayed up too late. In some settings (schools), it's much more likely a player would fall asleep because they'd stayed up late a lot, than that there was some underlying issue (depending if the player otherwise appears healthy, and if their teammates seem concerned for the game than for their health).  
  > **username_9**: "Reasonably confident" doesn't remove liability. If there is an underlying medical condition, the TD declares that the sleeping player is fine, and then the sleeper dies during the game, he's going to need to prove where his confidence came from. If the game is somehow a "24 hour no-sleep chess tournament", then sure, but if not... a random player falling asleep is exceptional enough to warrant caution.  
  > **username_10**: I imagine he was yawning a lot, maybe he even told people that he'd stayed up late. I think most observant people can tell when someone is really tired. The friend probably knew what was going on.  
  > **username_11**: The rules you quoted pertains to the arbiter, not a third party. So I don't see how this answers the question.  
  > **username_12**: The rule says that _the arbiter shall_ etc. But the question asks if the _player's friend_ may wake him. Is not the distinction important?  My first thought on reading the question was “no, the sleeper's friend should not have woken him; the friend should have asked the arbiter to do it”. (And then the arbiter should have done it.)  
  > **username_12**: (To my surprise, I find that although nonplayers are  generally excluded from the playing area, there seems to be no rule against a player communicating with _another player_, discussing the position with them, asking them for advice, etc.)  
  > **username_0**: @MarkDominus: I think there should be a designated person to wake a player, not make it so that someone with a friend has an advantage over someone who relies on the TD. As far as advice, surely there is a rule against this most intuitive of rules. Spectators were never excluded from the playing area when I have played or even at Lone Pine which did have spectators watching GMs play standing by their boards IIRC although for some events, I am sure the TD might choose to do this -- world championship u sure don't see random spectators by the board but instead they are in a special area.  
  
  ---
  
  ### Answer by username_4 on 2023-07-17. Score: -2
  
  In chess, it is generally considered illegal for someone to physically wake a player who has fallen asleep during a game. According to the FIDE Laws of Chess, specifically Article 12.9, "During the game, a player is not allowed to have any electronic device in the playing venue. If it is evident that a player has such a device on their person in the playing venue, the player shall lose the game." While falling asleep during a game is not explicitly mentioned, it is typically considered the player's responsibility to remain alert and attentive. If a player is found asleep, it may be considered a violation of fair play and could result in penalties or loss of the game, depending on the specific tournament or competition rules.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_0**: Singularly uncompelling. No idea how cell phone relates.  
  > **username_5**: "_In chess, it is generally considered illegal for someone to physically wake a player who has fallen asleep during a game._"  No downvote but **Citation Needed**.  
  
  ---
  
  