Answers.Body: <p>You're not going to be able to do this if your attendees actually want to cheat. If you give me a position without kings, I can simply edit the chessvision analysis board by putting a king somewhere I think is reasonable and get around your system.</p>
  <p>However, if instead of preventing them from cheating, you encourage everyone to work together in teams on positions (and make sure the puzzles aren't too hard so that frustrated players will seek to quit the charade and bust out an engine), you're likely to make a better environment for everyone. Hopefully you don't have a big prize to the winner (or winning team) as well. For instance, I would suggest something non-monetary. If the only thing someone is likely to get out of the puzzle night is the satisfaction of a job well done, then nobody is likely to cheat.</p>
  
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-10-14T08:23:05.550Z
Answers.Text: "If the only thing someone is likely to get out of the puzzle night is the satisfaction of a job well done, then nobody is likely to cheat." - There's a lot of cheaters even in games where there's nothing to win. It's blaffling but online video games are crippled by cheaters.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Jemox
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-10-14T15:01:17.757Z
Answers.Text: @Echox I know it was just a typo, but blaffling might be my new favorite word
Answers.UserDisplayName: TCooper
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-10-14T17:15:15.820Z
Answers.Text: @Echox: IMHO the online cheating problem is largely a function of anonymity. I doubt those people would cheat if they had to do it live, in person, under their real names.
Answers.UserDisplayName: Kevin
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-10-15T14:32:05.907Z
Answers.Text: @kevin so not for halloween then
Answers.UserDisplayName: Michael West
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Answers.CreationDate: 2021-10-13T20:57:45.133Z
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Answers.UserDisplayName: NoseKnowsAll
Body: <p>I'm hosting a chess night and would like to post a few wallchart puzzles but would like to discourage folks from secretly whipping out their phone's chess app/engine and scoring points unfairly.</p>
  <p>For example, something like this <em>every-Russian-schoolboy-knows</em> endgame breakthrough position here with white to move where removing the Kings renders the position <strong>invalid/illegal</strong> by most engines, yet still has enough context to give a person a visualization/calculation challenge if they've not seen it before.</p>
  <p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/YcjGJ.png" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/YcjGJ.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
  
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-10-13T22:50:29.933Z
Comments.Text: How about give them problems that engines can't solve, like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/b3pa4f/puzzle_i_cant_do_reach_this_position_in_4_moves/
Comments.UserDisplayName: Akavall
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-10-14T01:40:56.580Z
Comments.Text: suggestion: chess960 puzzle involving castling. they'd have to select enable castling...hmmm...guess that's not much of a hassle compared to adding the kings...well maybe chess960 puzzle involving castling and the no kings thing?
Comments.UserDisplayName: BCLC
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-10-14T01:41:30.480Z
Comments.Text: @Akavall you mean retrograde?
Comments.UserDisplayName: BCLC
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-10-14T01:43:16.357Z
Comments.Text: here's some retrograde analysis examples in regular chess puzzles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_analysis#Castling_and_en_passant_conventions it's like regular chess puzzles BUT you don't know the last move YET you need to know the last moves to answer
Comments.UserDisplayName: BCLC
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-10-14T06:11:55.003Z
Comments.Text: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
Comments.UserDisplayName: Acccumulation
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-10-14T07:50:55.610Z
Comments.Text: What kind of idiot would do that? If someone wants a calculation challenge, they have it in front of their eyes. If someone doesn't want the challenge... well, who cares?
Comments.UserDisplayName: David
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2021-10-14T11:51:57.660Z
Comments.Text: @David idiots who want to appear smart?
Comments.UserDisplayName: John Coleman
Comments.ContentLicense: CC BY-SA 4.0
Comments.CreationDate: 2024-07-18T00:09:16.093Z
Comments.Text: If you use positions with no kings, you must have alternative winning conditions/goals so it's no longer a standard chess puzzle.
Comments.UserDisplayName: Lucenaposition
Tags: <engines><puzzles>
Title: Is there a resource for chess puzzles that are altered just enough to discourage easy engine use to solve?
ThreadText: # Is there a resource for chess puzzles that are altered just enough to discourage easy engine use to solve?
  
  (Asked by: username_0 on 2021-10-13)
  
  I'm hosting a chess night and would like to post a few wallchart puzzles but would like to discourage folks from secretly whipping out their phone's chess app/engine and scoring points unfairly.
  
  For example, something like this *every-Russian-schoolboy-knows* endgame breakthrough position here with white to move where removing the Kings renders the position **invalid/illegal** by most engines, yet still has enough context to give a person a visualization/calculation challenge if they've not seen it before.
  
  [![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/YcjGJ.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/YcjGJ.png)
  
  **Tags:** engines, puzzles
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_1**: How about give them problems that engines can't solve, like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/b3pa4f/puzzle_i_cant_do_reach_this_position_in_4_moves/  
  > **username_2**: suggestion: chess960 puzzle involving castling. they'd have to select enable castling...hmmm...guess that's not much of a hassle compared to adding the kings...well maybe chess960 puzzle involving castling and the no kings thing?  
  > **username_2**: @username_1 you mean retrograde?  
  > **username_2**: here's some retrograde analysis examples in regular chess puzzles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrograde_analysis#Castling_and_en_passant_conventions it's like regular chess puzzles BUT you don't know the last move YET you need to know the last moves to answer  
  > **username_3**: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage  
  > **username_4**: What kind of idiot would do that? If someone wants a calculation challenge, they have it in front of their eyes. If someone doesn't want the challenge... well, who cares?  
  > **username_5**: @username_4 idiots who want to appear smart?  
  > **username_6**: If you use positions with no kings, you must have alternative winning conditions/goals so it's no longer a standard chess puzzle.  
  
  ---
  
  ## 1 answers
  
  ### Answer by username_7 on 2021-10-13. Score: 12 | Accepted answer
  
  You're not going to be able to do this if your attendees actually want to cheat. If you give me a position without kings, I can simply edit the chessvision analysis board by putting a king somewhere I think is reasonable and get around your system.
  
  However, if instead of preventing them from cheating, you encourage everyone to work together in teams on positions (and make sure the puzzles aren't too hard so that frustrated players will seek to quit the charade and bust out an engine), you're likely to make a better environment for everyone. Hopefully you don't have a big prize to the winner (or winning team) as well. For instance, I would suggest something non-monetary. If the only thing someone is likely to get out of the puzzle night is the satisfaction of a job well done, then nobody is likely to cheat.
  
  > **Comments:**
  > **username_8**: "If the only thing someone is likely to get out of the puzzle night is the satisfaction of a job well done, then nobody is likely to cheat." - There's a lot of cheaters even in games where there's nothing to win. It's blaffling but online video games are crippled by cheaters.  
  > **username_9**: @Echox I know it was just a typo, but blaffling might be my new favorite word  
  > **username_10**: @Echox: IMHO the online cheating problem is largely a function of anonymity. I doubt those people would cheat if they had to do it live, in person, under their real names.  
  > **username_11**: @kevin so not for halloween then  
  
  ---
  
  