<p>It's detailed <a href="http://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/39.8-Sevitabbasevitabba-S-m114-piya.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">in M. 114 which is translated as follows</a> (see page 147, i.e. page 11/31 of the PDF):</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>(10) SPEAKING FRIVOLOUSLY. Furthermore, he chatters frivolously [utters useless talk]—<br>
  he speaks at the wrong time, what is false, what is not connected with the goal [unbeneficial],
  what is not the teaching [Dharma], what is not the discipline [Vinaya];<br>
  at the wrong time, he speaks words not worth treasuring, baseless, undefined [rambling],
  not connected with the goal.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>... and page 148 (i.e. page 12/31 of the PDF):</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>(14) NOT SPEAKING FRIVOLOUSLY. Having given up frivolous chatter, he refrains from frivolous chatter—<br>
  he speaks at the right time, what is true, what is connected with the goal [beneficial],
  what is the teaching, what is the discipline;<br>
  he speaks words worth treasuring, at the right time, well-founded, well-defined [not rambling],
  connected with the goal</p>
</blockquote>

<hr>

<p>Various copies of the definition of the Kamma Patha (<a href="http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kamma-patha/index.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">for example here</a>) say,</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Both lists occur repeatedly, e.g. in A.X.28, 176; M.9; they are explained in detail in M.114, and in Com. to M.9 (R. Und., p. 14), Atthasālini Tr. I, 126ff.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>I copied the "explanation in detail from M 114" above, you might find further commentary in the others of these references.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-04-23T16:07:40.370Z
2016-04-23T16:58:47.570Z
2018-08-14T22:06:13.773Z
ChrisW
<p>In addition found in <a href="http://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/39.8-Sevitabbasevitabba-S-m114-piya.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Sevitabbâsevitabba Sutta</a> there are 32 types of chatter which is called animal chatter which falls under the category of idle / frivolous chatter:</p>
<ol>
<li>Rajakatha – Talk about kings</li>
<li>Corakatha – Talk about robbers</li>
<li>Mahamatta katha – Talk about ministers of state</li>
<li>Senakatha – Talk about armies</li>
<li>Bhayakatha – Talk about dangers</li>
<li>Yuddhakatha – Talk about battles</li>
<li>Annakatha – Talk about food</li>
<li>Panakatha – Talk about drinks</li>
<li>Vatthakatha – Talk about clothing</li>
<li>Sayanakatha – Talk about dwellings</li>
<li>Malakatha – Talk about garlands</li>
<li>Gandhakatha – Talk about perfumes</li>
<li>Natikatha – Talk about relations</li>
<li>Yanakatha – Talk about vehicles</li>
<li>Gamakatha – Talk about villages</li>
<li>Nigamakatha -Talk about market towns</li>
<li>Nagarakatha – Talk about towns</li>
<li>Janapadakatha – Talk about districts</li>
<li>Itthikatha – Talk about women/men</li>
<li>Surakatha – Talk about heroes</li>
<li>Visakhakatha – Talk about streets</li>
<li>Kumbhatthanakatha – Talk about watering places</li>
<li>Pubbapeta-katha – Talk about relatives who have passed away</li>
<li>Nanattakatha – Tittle-tattle</li>
<li>Lokakkhayika katha – talk about the origin of the world</li>
<li>Samuddakkhayikakatha – Talk about the origin of the ocean</li>
<li>Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about Eternity belief</li>
<li>Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about annihilation belief</li>
<li>Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about worldly gain</li>
<li>Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about worldly loss</li>
<li>Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about self-indulgence</li>
<li>Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about self-mortification</li>
</ol>
<p>Sourced from: <a href="http://buddhistgroupofkendal.co.uk/tiracchana-katha-unskillful-talk/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Tiracchana-Katha Unskilful Talk</a> which is an adaptation from Venerable <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ledi_Sayadaw" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Ledi Sayadaw</a>’s <a href="http://mahajana.net/texts/kopia_lokalna/MANUAL07.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Magganga-Dipani: The Manual of The Constituents of the Noble Path</a>.</p>
<p>Instead of memorizing specific type of talk you can discern what it idle chatter through the fundamentals, i.e.,:</p>
<ol>
<li>is not beneficial,</li>
<li>not relevant to the fundamentals of the holy life,</li>
<li>does not leads to revulsion,</li>
<li>does not leads to dispassion,</li>
<li>does not leads to cessation,</li>
<li>does not leads to peace,</li>
<li>does not leads to direct knowledge,</li>
<li>does not leads to enlightenment,</li>
<li>does not leads to Nibbana</li>
</ol>
<p>Adopted from: <a href="http://buddhistgroupofkendal.co.uk/tiracchana-katha-unskillful-talk/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Tiracchana-Katha Unskilful Talk</a></p>
<p>... or in general context ...</p>
<ol>
<li>he speaks at the wrong time,</li>
<li>what is false,</li>
<li>what is not connected with the goal [unbeneficial],</li>
<li>what is not the teaching [Dharma]<sup>1</sup>,</li>
<li>what is not the discipline [Vinaya];</li>
<li>he speaks words not worth treasuring,</li>
<li>baseless,</li>
<li>undefined [rambling],</li>
<li>not connected with the goal</li>
</ol>
<p>... or more succinctly, chatter in which, unwholesome states increase and
wholesome states decrease.</p>
<p>See: <a href="http://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/39.8-Sevitabbasevitabba-S-m114-piya.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Sevitabbâsevitabba Sutta</a> and <a href="https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/14882/295">answer</a> by <a href="https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/users/254">@ChrisW</a></p>
<p>Also talk you should engage in:</p>
<ol>
<li>Talk about wanting little,</li>
<li>about contentment,</li>
<li>seclusion,</li>
<li>solitude,</li>
<li>energetic striving,</li>
<li>virtue,</li>
<li>concentration,</li>
<li>insight,</li>
<li>release,</li>
<li>release by knowing and seeing</li>
</ol>
<p>In addition the Buddha mentions you should talk about the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths" rel="nofollow noreferrer">4 Noble Truths</a> as this lead to:</p>
<ol>
<li>is beneficial,</li>
<li>relevant to the fundamentals of the holy life,</li>
<li>leads to revulsion,</li>
<li>leads to dispassion,</li>
<li>leads to cessation,</li>
<li>leads to peace,</li>
<li>leads to direct knowledge,</li>
<li>leads to enlightenment,</li>
<li>leads to Nibbana</li>
</ol>
<p>Adopted from: <a href="http://buddhistgroupofkendal.co.uk/tiracchana-katha-unskillful-talk/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Tiracchana-Katha Unskilful Talk</a></p>
<p>... or in general context ...</p>
<ol>
<li>he speaks at the right time,</li>
<li>what is true,</li>
<li>what is connected with the goal [beneficial],</li>
<li>what is the teaching<sup>1</sup>,</li>
<li>what is the discipline;</li>
<li>he speaks words worth treasuring,</li>
<li>well-founded,</li>
<li>well-defined [not rambling],</li>
<li>connected with the goal</li>
</ol>
<p>... or more succinctly, chatter in which, unwholesome states decrease and wholesome states increase.</p>
<p>See: <a href="http://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/39.8-Sevitabbasevitabba-S-m114-piya.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Sevitabbâsevitabba Sutta</a> and <a href="https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/14882/295">answer</a> by <a href="https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/users/254">@ChrisW</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Several suttas contain this list but all of them list only 27. However, as usual, the Commentators obsessed with splitting hairs have stretched it to 32 by splitting the last one into 6.</p>
<p>The name &quot;Detis Katha&quot; is also theirs. The Suttas called the original ones &quot;Tirracchana katha&quot; which literally means ‘animal talk’.</p>
<p>Incidentally this list is not for us to learn and remember. These topics are for avoiding. Several suttas say that we should instead be discussing only the Noble Truth.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Source: <a href="http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/5029/dethis-katha-32-types-of-unskillful-talks" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Dethis Katha (32 types of unskillful talks)</a> by user <a href="http://newbuddhist.com/profile/Gayan" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Gayan</a></p>
<p>Furthermore the blog <a href="http://buddhistgroupofkendal.co.uk/tiracchana-katha-unskillful-talk/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Tiracchana-Katha Unskilful Talk</a> has comprehensive treatment of this topic.</p>
<hr />
<p><sup>1</sup></p>
<p>Regarding skillful and unskillful chattering regarding the Dhamma there is 8:</p>
<ol>
<li>This Dhamma is for reducing desire, not for increasing desire.</li>
<li>This Dhamma is for increasing contentment, not for increasing
discontentment.</li>
<li>This Dhamma is for cultivating seclusion, not for becoming sociable.</li>
<li>This Dhamma is for becoming energetic, not for becoming lazy.</li>
<li>This Dhamma is for developing mindfulness, not developing
unmindfulness.</li>
<li>This Dhamma is for developing composure, not for making
restlessness.</li>
<li>This Dhamma is for increasing wisdom, not for decreasing wisdom.</li>
<li>This Dhamma is for delighting in freedom from impediments, not
for delighting in impediment.</li>
</ol>
<p>Sourced from: <a href="http://buddhistgroupofkendal.co.uk/eight-great-noble-thoughts-and-papanca-proliferation-and-nippapanca-non-proliferation/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Eight Great Noble Thoughts and Papanca [proliferation] and Nippapanca [non-proliferation]</a></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-04-27T09:43:26.037Z
To not talk about the origin of the world is not to talk about the agganna sutta. Or is it about the origin of the universe?
Heisenberg
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-04-27T11:25:45.360Z
Discussing about  [Agganna Sutta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agga%C3%B1%C3%B1a_Sutta) does not help in realising the [4 Noble Truths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths), [Dependent Origination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da) or [Conditional Relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patthana), so this is in many contexs not very useful to dwell on it too much. The Buddha preached it seeing some value perhaps to the original and perhaps others also.
Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-04-24T03:42:08.337Z
2016-04-24T08:03:57.680Z
2020-06-17T09:56:10.877Z
Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena
<p>An elaborated answer on meaningless speech as in ten unwholesome acts is expected</p>

<theravada><pali-canon><lay-buddhism>
What is useless/meaningless speech?
# What is useless/meaningless speech?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-04-23)

An elaborated answer on meaningless speech as in ten unwholesome acts is expected

**Tags:** theravada, pali-canon, lay-buddhism


---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2016-04-24. Score: 6

In addition found in [Sevitabbâsevitabba Sutta](http://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/39.8-Sevitabbasevitabba-S-m114-piya.pdf) there are 32 types of chatter which is called animal chatter which falls under the category of idle / frivolous chatter:

1. Rajakatha – Talk about kings
2. Corakatha – Talk about robbers
3. Mahamatta katha – Talk about ministers of state
4. Senakatha – Talk about armies
5. Bhayakatha – Talk about dangers
6. Yuddhakatha – Talk about battles
7. Annakatha – Talk about food
8. Panakatha – Talk about drinks
9. Vatthakatha – Talk about clothing
10. Sayanakatha – Talk about dwellings
11. Malakatha – Talk about garlands
12. Gandhakatha – Talk about perfumes
13. Natikatha – Talk about relations
14. Yanakatha – Talk about vehicles
15. Gamakatha – Talk about villages
16. Nigamakatha -Talk about market towns
17. Nagarakatha – Talk about towns
18. Janapadakatha – Talk about districts
19. Itthikatha – Talk about women/men
20. Surakatha – Talk about heroes
21. Visakhakatha – Talk about streets
22. Kumbhatthanakatha – Talk about watering places
23. Pubbapeta-katha – Talk about relatives who have passed away
24. Nanattakatha – Tittle-tattle
25. Lokakkhayika katha – talk about the origin of the world
26. Samuddakkhayikakatha – Talk about the origin of the ocean
27. Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about Eternity belief
28. Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about annihilation belief
29. Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about worldly gain
30. Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about worldly loss
31. Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about self-indulgence
32. Itibhavabhava katha – Talk about self-mortification

Sourced from: [Tiracchana-Katha Unskilful Talk](http://buddhistgroupofkendal.co.uk/tiracchana-katha-unskillful-talk/) which is an adaptation from Venerable [Ledi Sayadaw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ledi_Sayadaw)’s [Magganga-Dipani: The Manual of The Constituents of the Noble Path](http://mahajana.net/texts/kopia_lokalna/MANUAL07.html).

Instead of memorizing specific type of talk you can discern what it idle chatter through the fundamentals, i.e.,:

1. is not beneficial,
2. not relevant to the fundamentals of the holy life,
3. does not leads to revulsion,
4. does not leads to dispassion,
5. does not leads to cessation,
6. does not leads to peace,
7. does not leads to direct knowledge,
8. does not leads to enlightenment,
9. does not leads to Nibbana

Adopted from: [Tiracchana-Katha Unskilful Talk](http://buddhistgroupofkendal.co.uk/tiracchana-katha-unskillful-talk/)

... or in general context ...

1. he speaks at the wrong time,
2. what is false,
3. what is not connected with the goal [unbeneficial],
4. what is not the teaching [Dharma]1,
5. what is not the discipline [Vinaya];
6. he speaks words not worth treasuring,
7. baseless,
8. undefined [rambling],
9. not connected with the goal

... or more succinctly, chatter in which, unwholesome states increase and
wholesome states decrease.

See: [Sevitabbâsevitabba Sutta](http://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/39.8-Sevitabbasevitabba-S-m114-piya.pdf) and [answer](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/14882/295) by [@username_1](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/users/254)

Also talk you should engage in:

1. Talk about wanting little,
2. about contentment,
3. seclusion,
4. solitude,
5. energetic striving,
6. virtue,
7. concentration,
8. insight,
9. release,
10. release by knowing and seeing

In addition the Buddha mentions you should talk about the [4 Noble Truths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths) as this lead to:

1. is beneficial,
2. relevant to the fundamentals of the holy life,
3. leads to revulsion,
4. leads to dispassion,
5. leads to cessation,
6. leads to peace,
7. leads to direct knowledge,
8. leads to enlightenment,
9. leads to Nibbana

Adopted from: [Tiracchana-Katha Unskilful Talk](http://buddhistgroupofkendal.co.uk/tiracchana-katha-unskillful-talk/)

... or in general context ...

1. he speaks at the right time,
2. what is true,
3. what is connected with the goal [beneficial],
4. what is the teaching1,
5. what is the discipline;
6. he speaks words worth treasuring,
7. well-founded,
8. well-defined [not rambling],
9. connected with the goal

... or more succinctly, chatter in which, unwholesome states decrease and wholesome states increase.

See: [Sevitabbâsevitabba Sutta](http://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/39.8-Sevitabbasevitabba-S-m114-piya.pdf) and [answer](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/14882/295) by [@username_1](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/users/254)

> Several suttas contain this list but all of them list only 27. However, as usual, the Commentators obsessed with splitting hairs have stretched it to 32 by splitting the last one into 6.
>
> The name "Detis Katha" is also theirs. The Suttas called the original ones "Tirracchana katha" which literally means ‘animal talk’.
>
> Incidentally this list is not for us to learn and remember. These topics are for avoiding. Several suttas say that we should instead be discussing only the Noble Truth.

Source: [Dethis Katha (32 types of unskillful talks)](http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/5029/dethis-katha-32-types-of-unskillful-talks) by user [Gayan](http://newbuddhist.com/profile/Gayan)

Furthermore the blog [Tiracchana-Katha Unskilful Talk](http://buddhistgroupofkendal.co.uk/tiracchana-katha-unskillful-talk/) has comprehensive treatment of this topic.

---

1

Regarding skillful and unskillful chattering regarding the Dhamma there is 8:

1. This Dhamma is for reducing desire, not for increasing desire.
2. This Dhamma is for increasing contentment, not for increasing
   discontentment.
3. This Dhamma is for cultivating seclusion, not for becoming sociable.
4. This Dhamma is for becoming energetic, not for becoming lazy.
5. This Dhamma is for developing mindfulness, not developing
   unmindfulness.
6. This Dhamma is for developing composure, not for making
   restlessness.
7. This Dhamma is for increasing wisdom, not for decreasing wisdom.
8. This Dhamma is for delighting in freedom from impediments, not
   for delighting in impediment.

Sourced from: [Eight Great Noble Thoughts and Papanca [proliferation] and Nippapanca [non-proliferation]](http://buddhistgroupofkendal.co.uk/eight-great-noble-thoughts-and-papanca-proliferation-and-nippapanca-non-proliferation/)

> **Comments:**
> **username_3**: To not talk about the origin of the world is not to talk about the agganna sutta. Or is it about the origin of the universe?  
> **username_2**: Discussing about  [Agganna Sutta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agga%C3%B1%C3%B1a_Sutta) does not help in realising the [4 Noble Truths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths), [Dependent Origination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da) or [Conditional Relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patthana), so this is in many contexs not very useful to dwell on it too much. The Buddha preached it seeing some value perhaps to the original and perhaps others also.  

---

### Answer by username_1 on 2016-04-23. Score: 1

It's detailed [in M. 114 which is translated as follows](http://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/39.8-Sevitabbasevitabba-S-m114-piya.pdf) (see page 147, i.e. page 11/31 of the PDF):

> (10) SPEAKING FRIVOLOUSLY. Furthermore, he chatters frivolously [utters useless talk]—  
> he speaks at the wrong time, what is false, what is not connected with the goal [unbeneficial],
> what is not the teaching [Dharma], what is not the discipline [Vinaya];  
> at the wrong time, he speaks words not worth treasuring, baseless, undefined [rambling],
> not connected with the goal.

... and page 148 (i.e. page 12/31 of the PDF):

> (14) NOT SPEAKING FRIVOLOUSLY. Having given up frivolous chatter, he refrains from frivolous chatter—  
> he speaks at the right time, what is true, what is connected with the goal [beneficial],
> what is the teaching, what is the discipline;  
> he speaks words worth treasuring, at the right time, well-founded, well-defined [not rambling],
> connected with the goal

---

Various copies of the definition of the Kamma Patha ([for example here](http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/kamma-patha/index.html)) say,

> Both lists occur repeatedly, e.g. in A.X.28, 176; M.9; they are explained in detail in M.114, and in Com. to M.9 (R. Und., p. 14), Atthasālini Tr. I, 126ff.

I copied the "explanation in detail from M 114" above, you might find further commentary in the others of these references.


---

