<blockquote>
  <p><strong>What are asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī and sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī ?</strong></p>
</blockquote>

<p>In <a href="https://suttacentral.net/en/sn46.3" rel="nofollow noreferrer">SN 46.3</a>, Bhikkhu Bodhi translates these terms as: </p>

<ul>
<li>'<em>Nibbāna without exertion</em>'</li>
<li>'<em>Nibbāna with exertion</em>'.</li>
</ul>

<p>This translation appears inaccurate to me, since 'sankhara' here probably means 'thinking' rather than 'exertion' (although the practical meaning is the same). </p>

<p>The terms '<em>asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī</em>' &amp; '<em>sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī</em>' are described in <a href="http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-Nikaya/Anguttara2/4-catukkanipata/017-patipadavaggo-e.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">AN 4.169</a>, which states per the translation below:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Cattāromecattārome?, bhikkhave, puggalā santo saṃvijjamānā lokasmiṃ.
  Katame cattāro?</p>
  
  <p>017.09. Bhikkhus, these four persons are evident in the world. What four?</p>
  
  <p>Idha, bhikkhave, ekacco puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme
  <strong><em>sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī</em></strong> hoti. Idha pana, bhikkhave, ekacco puggalo
  kāyassa bhedā <strong><em>sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī</em></strong> hoti. Idha pana, bhikkhave,
  ekacco puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme <strong><em>asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī</em></strong> hoti. Idha
  pana, bhikkhave, ekacco puggalo kāyassa bhedā
  <strong><em>asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī</em></strong> hoti.</p>
  
  <p>Here, bhikkhus, a certain person extinguishes here and now with
  substratum. A certain person extinguishes with substratum at death, a
  certain person extinguishes here and now without substratum. A certain
  person extinguishes without substratum at death,</p>
  
  <p>Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes here and now with substratum?</p>
  
  <p>Kathañca, bhikkhave, puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme
  sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu
  <strong>asubhānupassī</strong> kāye viharati, āhāre paṭikūlasaññī, sabbaloke
  anabhi­rati­saññī, sabba­saṅ­khā­resu <strong>aniccānupassī</strong>. <strong>Maraṇasaññā</strong> kho
  panassa ajjhattaṃ sūpaṭṭhitā hoti. So imāni pañca sekhabalāni
  upanissāya viharati— saddhābalaṃ, hiribalaṃ, ottappabalaṃ,
  vīriyabalaṃ, paññābalaṃ. Tassimāni pañcindriyāni adhimattāni
  pātubhavanti—saddhindriyaṃ, vīriyindriyaṃ, satindriyaṃ,
  samādhindriyaṃ, paññindriyaṃ. So imesaṃ pañcannaṃ indriyānaṃ
  adhimattattā diṭṭheva dhamme sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti. Evaṃ
  kho, bhikkhave, puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī
  hoti.</p>
  
  <p>Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu abides <strong>reflecting loathsomeness</strong> in the
  body, loathsomeness in food, detachment from all the world, <strong>seeing
  impermanence</strong> in all determinations and the <strong>perception of death</strong> is
  thoroughly established in him. He abides relying on these five powers
  of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse, effort and
  wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness,
  concentration and wisdom are sharp in him as a result he extinguishes
  here and now with substratum.</p>
  
  <p>Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes with substratum after death?</p>
  
  <p>Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu abides reflecting loathsomeness in the
  body, loathsomeness in food, detachment from all the world, seeing
  impermanence in all determinations and the perception of death is
  thoroughly established in him. He abides relying on these five powers
  of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse, effort and
  wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness,
  concentration and wisdom are blunt in him as a result he extinguishes
  with substratum after death.</p>
  
  <p>Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes here and now without substratum?</p>
  
  <p>Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu secluded from sensual thoughts, angry
  thoughts, hurting thoughts and evil thoughts ... re ... and abides in
  the first higher state of mind. Overcoming thoughts and thought
  processes ... re ... abides in the second higher state of mind.
  Developing equanimity to joy and detachment ... re ... experiences
  pleasantness with the body too and abides in the third higher state of
  mind. To this the noble ones say abiding in pleasantness with
  equanimity. Dispelling pleasantness and unpleasantness and earlier
  having dispelled pleasure and displeasure, purifying mindfulness, so
  that unpleasantness or pleasantness does not enter the mind, he abides
  in the fourth higher state of mind. He abides relying on these five
  powers of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse,
  effort and wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness,
  concentration and wisdom are sharp in him as a result he extinguishes
  without substratum here and now.</p>
  
  <p>Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes without substratum after death?</p>
  
  <p>Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu secluded from sensual thoughts, angry
  thoughts, hurting thoughts and evil thoughts ... re ... and abides in
  the first higher state of mind. Overcoming thoughts and thought
  processes ... re ... abides in the second higher state of mind.
  Developing equanimity to joy and detachment ... re ... experiences
  pleasantness with the body too and abides in the third higher state of
  mind. To this the noble ones say abiding in pleasantness with
  equanimity. Dispelling pleasantness and unpleasantness and earlier
  having dispelled pleasure and displeasure, purifying mindfulness, so
  that unpleasantness or pleasantness does not enter the mind, he abides
  in the fourth higher state of mind. He abides relying on these five
  powers of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse,
  effort and wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness,
  concentration and wisdom are blunt in him as a result he extinguishes
  without substratum after death.</p>
  
  <p>Bhikkhus, these four persons are evident in the world.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The sutta is unambiguous. '<em>Asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī</em>' appears to mean '<em>extinguishing without using the sankhara aggregate</em>', namely, the development of jhana, which is the stilling of thought. '<em>Sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī</em>' appears to mean '<em>extinguishing with using the sankhara aggregate</em>', namely, the development of wisdom or right view. </p>

<hr>

<hr>

<blockquote>
  <p><strong>What is the meaning of vadāmī?</strong></p>
</blockquote>

<p>'Vadami' simply means 'speak' or 'I say' (it seems). </p>

<hr>

<hr>

<blockquote>
  <p><strong>Do dhammānusārī and saddhānusārī mean Cula Sotapanna?</strong></p>
</blockquote>

<p>Dhamma-follower &amp; faith-follower appear to not be sotapanna (stream-enterer) but headed for sotappana (stream-entry). </p>

<blockquote>
  <p><em>Bhikkhus, the Dhamma well proclaimed by me thus is clear…free of patchwork. In the Dhamma well proclaimed by me thus, which is
  clear…free of patchwork, those bhikkhus who are Dhamma-followers or
  faith-followers are all headed for enlightenment. MN 22</em></p>
</blockquote>

<hr>

<hr>

<blockquote>
  <p><strong>Is the maximum of seven lives applicable to Cula Sotapanna?</strong></p>
</blockquote>

<p>No. The suttas do not mention "seven more lives". The suttas only mention: "seven more", which obviously means "seven more fetters to breakthrough", as indicted by SN 13.1:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p><em>In the same way, monks, for a disciple of the noble ones who is consummate in view, an individual who has <strong>broken through</strong> [to
  stream-entry], the suffering &amp; stress that is totally ended &amp;
  extinguished is far greater. That which remains in the state of having
  at most seven remaining [fetters] is next to nothing: it's not a
  hundredth, a thousandth, a one hundred-thousandth, when compared with
  the previous mass of suffering. That's how great the benefit is of
  <strong>breaking through</strong> to the Dhamma, monks. That's how great the benefit is
  of obtaining the Dhamma eye."</em></p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T20:02:32.567Z
Can someone who can read pali looking to the following Sutta for my fourth question. https://suttacentral.net/pi/sn48.24
SarathW
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T20:30:22.250Z
I have never come across a Sutta which mention seven lives means seven fetters.
SarathW
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T22:14:41.813Z
sn48.24 contains the word "sattak­khat­tu­paramo". The [PTS dictionary](http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.3:1:3003.pali) says that this means (literally) "seven times at most" and interprets that to mean, "one who will not be reborn more than seven times" ... but Dhammadhatu has a different interpretation in his answer (consistent with his saying, elsewhere, that the suttas don't talk about rebirth), which is that this phrase is referring to seven remaining fetters.
ChrisW
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T22:42:02.650Z
Can you give me a Sutta where it says seven lives refer to seven fetters.Thanks.
SarathW
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T22:53:51.510Z
I'm saying that the Pali word *sattak­khat­tu­paramo* literally says "seven at most" or something like that. Now whether that refers to "lives" or "fetters" is apparently a matter of interpretation. Like you I've read "seven lives" (in translations) so I guess that's the common translation/interpretation; and hadn't previously heard Dhammadhatu's interpretation of it as "seven fetters".
ChrisW
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-31T00:28:19.793Z
The sutta does not mention seven lives. The word "lives" is not in the Pali. The inclusion of "lives" is a mistranslation. The Pali is satta (seven) k­khat­tuṃ (times) ­paramatā (at most).
Dhamma Dhatu
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T19:53:01.700Z
2017-03-31T01:34:07.407Z
2017-03-31T01:34:07.407Z
Dhamma Dhatu
<blockquote>
  <p>What are asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī and sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī ?</p>
</blockquote>

<p><a href="http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/sasankh%C4%81ra-parinibb%C4%81y%C4%AB" rel="nofollow noreferrer">sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī</a> - 'one who reaches Nibbāna with exertion', is a name of one of the 5 kinds of Non-returners (anāgāmī).</p>

<p><a href="http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/asankh%C4%81ra-parinibb%C4%81y%C4%AB" rel="nofollow noreferrer">asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī</a> - 'one who reaches Nibbāna with exertion', is a name of one of the 5 kinds of Non-returners (anāgāmī).</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Do dhammānusārī and saddhānusārī mean Cula Sotapanna?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Yes</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Is the maximum of seven lives applicable to Cula Sotapanna?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>I do not think so. I think maximum of 7 lives is only applicable if you achieve Sotapanna.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T20:19:30.397Z
I suggest to examine AN 4.169 to check of the terms asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī and sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī are explained in detail there. I am travelling now therefore do not have my Pali suttas with me. Regards
Dhamma Dhatu
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T23:28:58.520Z
Thank you it was very helpful. -). In nut shell Sasankhara means Vipassana practitioner and Asankhara means Samatha practitioner.
SarathW
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-31T01:46:42.830Z
Interesting discussion now you find here.https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/question-re-tatiya-vittha-ra-sutta/4774/15
SarathW
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-31T07:49:54.670Z
[Sasankharika](http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/sasankharika) - prompted; [Asankharika](http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/asankharika) - unprompted or spontaneous.
Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T13:25:17.800Z
2017-03-31T07:56:04.523Z
2017-03-31T07:56:04.523Z
Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena
<p>SuttaCentral's
Pāli text of <a href="https://suttacentral.net/pi/sn48.17" rel="nofollow noreferrer">SN 48.17, “Tatiya­vitthā­ra­sutta”</a> is,</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>“Pañcimāni, bhikkhave, indriyāni. Katamāni pañca? Saddhindriyaṃ … pe … paññindriyaṃ—imāni kho, bhikkhave, pañcindriyāni. Imesaṃ kho, bhikkhave, pañcannaṃ indriyānaṃ samattā paripūrattā arahaṃ hoti, tato mudutarehi antarā­pari­nib­bāyī hoti, tato
  mudutarehi sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti, tato mudutarehi uddhaṃsoto hoti akaniṭṭhagāmī, tato mudutarehi sakadāgāmī hoti, tato mudutarehi sotāpanno hoti, tato mudutarehi dhammānusārī hoti, tato mudutarehi saddhānusārī hoti. Iti kho, bhikkhave, paripūraṃ paripūrakārī ārādheti, padesaṃ padesakārī ārādheti. ‘Avañjhāni tvevāhaṃ, bhikkhave, pañcindriyānī’ti vadāmī”ti.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>In this Sutta:</p>

<ul>
<li>What are asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī and sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī ?</li>
<li>What is the meaning of vadāmī?</li>
<li>Do dhammānusārī and saddhānusārī mean Cula Sotapanna?</li>
<li>Is the maximum of seven lives applicable to Cula Sotapanna?</li>
</ul>

<p>Thanks.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T11:03:31.133Z
Where did you come accross this term "Cula Sotapanna"? or did you coin it? This is the first time that I heard of such.
Saptha Visuddhi
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T19:29:49.277Z
Please include an english translation
Dhamma Dhatu
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T19:49:06.403Z
I am sorry I do not have the English translation. I will include it if I find it.
SarathW
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-30T22:19:02.037Z
[This thread](https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=434) says that Cula Sotapanna means "Lesser Sotapanna" and includes "truth followers" and "faith-followers".
ChrisW
<theravada>
Questions about the “Tatiya­vitthā­ra­sutta”
# Questions about the “Tatiya­vitthā­ra­sutta”

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-03-30)

SuttaCentral's
Pāli text of [SN 48.17, “Tatiya­vitthā­ra­sutta”](https://suttacentral.net/pi/sn48.17) is,

> “Pañcimāni, bhikkhave, indriyāni. Katamāni pañca? Saddhindriyaṃ … pe … paññindriyaṃ—imāni kho, bhikkhave, pañcindriyāni. Imesaṃ kho, bhikkhave, pañcannaṃ indriyānaṃ samattā paripūrattā arahaṃ hoti, tato mudutarehi antarā­pari­nib­bāyī hoti, tato
> mudutarehi sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti, tato mudutarehi uddhaṃsoto hoti akaniṭṭhagāmī, tato mudutarehi sakadāgāmī hoti, tato mudutarehi sotāpanno hoti, tato mudutarehi dhammānusārī hoti, tato mudutarehi saddhānusārī hoti. Iti kho, bhikkhave, paripūraṃ paripūrakārī ārādheti, padesaṃ padesakārī ārādheti. ‘Avañjhāni tvevāhaṃ, bhikkhave, pañcindriyānī’ti vadāmī”ti.

In this Sutta:

* What are asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī and sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī ?
* What is the meaning of vadāmī?
* Do dhammānusārī and saddhānusārī mean Cula Sotapanna?
* Is the maximum of seven lives applicable to Cula Sotapanna?

Thanks.

**Tags:** theravada

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Where did you come accross this term "Cula Sotapanna"? or did you coin it? This is the first time that I heard of such.  
> **username_2**: Please include an english translation  
> **username_0**: I am sorry I do not have the English translation. I will include it if I find it.  
> **username_3**: [This thread](https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=434) says that Cula Sotapanna means "Lesser Sotapanna" and includes "truth followers" and "faith-followers".  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2017-03-30. Score: 1

> **What are asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī and sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī ?**

In [SN 46.3](https://suttacentral.net/en/sn46.3), Bhikkhu Bodhi translates these terms as:

* '*Nibbāna without exertion*'
* '*Nibbāna with exertion*'.

This translation appears inaccurate to me, since 'sankhara' here probably means 'thinking' rather than 'exertion' (although the practical meaning is the same).

The terms '*asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī*' & '*sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī*' are described in [AN 4.169](http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-Nikaya/Anguttara2/4-catukkanipata/017-patipadavaggo-e.html), which states per the translation below:

> Cattāromecattārome?, bhikkhave, puggalā santo saṃvijjamānā lokasmiṃ.
> Katame cattāro?
>
> 017.09. Bhikkhus, these four persons are evident in the world. What four?
>
> Idha, bhikkhave, ekacco puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme
> ***sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī*** hoti. Idha pana, bhikkhave, ekacco puggalo
> kāyassa bhedā ***sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī*** hoti. Idha pana, bhikkhave,
> ekacco puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme ***asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī*** hoti. Idha
> pana, bhikkhave, ekacco puggalo kāyassa bhedā
> ***asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī*** hoti.
>
> Here, bhikkhus, a certain person extinguishes here and now with
> substratum. A certain person extinguishes with substratum at death, a
> certain person extinguishes here and now without substratum. A certain
> person extinguishes without substratum at death,
>
> Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes here and now with substratum?
>
> Kathañca, bhikkhave, puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme
> sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu
> **asubhānupassī** kāye viharati, āhāre paṭikūlasaññī, sabbaloke
> anabhi­rati­saññī, sabba­saṅ­khā­resu **aniccānupassī**. **Maraṇasaññā** kho
> panassa ajjhattaṃ sūpaṭṭhitā hoti. So imāni pañca sekhabalāni
> upanissāya viharati— saddhābalaṃ, hiribalaṃ, ottappabalaṃ,
> vīriyabalaṃ, paññābalaṃ. Tassimāni pañcindriyāni adhimattāni
> pātubhavanti—saddhindriyaṃ, vīriyindriyaṃ, satindriyaṃ,
> samādhindriyaṃ, paññindriyaṃ. So imesaṃ pañcannaṃ indriyānaṃ
> adhimattattā diṭṭheva dhamme sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī hoti. Evaṃ
> kho, bhikkhave, puggalo diṭṭheva dhamme sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī
> hoti.
>
> Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu abides **reflecting loathsomeness** in the
> body, loathsomeness in food, detachment from all the world, **seeing
> impermanence** in all determinations and the **perception of death** is
> thoroughly established in him. He abides relying on these five powers
> of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse, effort and
> wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness,
> concentration and wisdom are sharp in him as a result he extinguishes
> here and now with substratum.
>
> Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes with substratum after death?
>
> Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu abides reflecting loathsomeness in the
> body, loathsomeness in food, detachment from all the world, seeing
> impermanence in all determinations and the perception of death is
> thoroughly established in him. He abides relying on these five powers
> of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse, effort and
> wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness,
> concentration and wisdom are blunt in him as a result he extinguishes
> with substratum after death.
>
> Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes here and now without substratum?
>
> Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu secluded from sensual thoughts, angry
> thoughts, hurting thoughts and evil thoughts ... re ... and abides in
> the first higher state of mind. Overcoming thoughts and thought
> processes ... re ... abides in the second higher state of mind.
> Developing equanimity to joy and detachment ... re ... experiences
> pleasantness with the body too and abides in the third higher state of
> mind. To this the noble ones say abiding in pleasantness with
> equanimity. Dispelling pleasantness and unpleasantness and earlier
> having dispelled pleasure and displeasure, purifying mindfulness, so
> that unpleasantness or pleasantness does not enter the mind, he abides
> in the fourth higher state of mind. He abides relying on these five
> powers of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse,
> effort and wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness,
> concentration and wisdom are sharp in him as a result he extinguishes
> without substratum here and now.
>
> Bhikkhus, which person extinguishes without substratum after death?
>
> Here, bhikkhus, the bhikkhu secluded from sensual thoughts, angry
> thoughts, hurting thoughts and evil thoughts ... re ... and abides in
> the first higher state of mind. Overcoming thoughts and thought
> processes ... re ... abides in the second higher state of mind.
> Developing equanimity to joy and detachment ... re ... experiences
> pleasantness with the body too and abides in the third higher state of
> mind. To this the noble ones say abiding in pleasantness with
> equanimity. Dispelling pleasantness and unpleasantness and earlier
> having dispelled pleasure and displeasure, purifying mindfulness, so
> that unpleasantness or pleasantness does not enter the mind, he abides
> in the fourth higher state of mind. He abides relying on these five
> powers of a trainer- Such as the powers of faith, shame remorse,
> effort and wisdom. The five faculties of faith, effort, mindfulness,
> concentration and wisdom are blunt in him as a result he extinguishes
> without substratum after death.
>
> Bhikkhus, these four persons are evident in the world.

The sutta is unambiguous. '*Asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī*' appears to mean '*extinguishing without using the sankhara aggregate*', namely, the development of jhana, which is the stilling of thought. '*Sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī*' appears to mean '*extinguishing with using the sankhara aggregate*', namely, the development of wisdom or right view.

---

---

> **What is the meaning of vadāmī?**

'Vadami' simply means 'speak' or 'I say' (it seems).

---

---

> **Do dhammānusārī and saddhānusārī mean Cula Sotapanna?**

Dhamma-follower & faith-follower appear to not be sotapanna (stream-enterer) but headed for sotappana (stream-entry).

> *Bhikkhus, the Dhamma well proclaimed by me thus is clear…free of patchwork. In the Dhamma well proclaimed by me thus, which is
> clear…free of patchwork, those bhikkhus who are Dhamma-followers or
> faith-followers are all headed for enlightenment. MN 22*

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> **Is the maximum of seven lives applicable to Cula Sotapanna?**

No. The suttas do not mention "seven more lives". The suttas only mention: "seven more", which obviously means "seven more fetters to breakthrough", as indicted by SN 13.1:

> *In the same way, monks, for a disciple of the noble ones who is consummate in view, an individual who has **broken through** [to
> stream-entry], the suffering & stress that is totally ended &
> extinguished is far greater. That which remains in the state of having
> at most seven remaining [fetters] is next to nothing: it's not a
> hundredth, a thousandth, a one hundred-thousandth, when compared with
> the previous mass of suffering. That's how great the benefit is of
> **breaking through** to the Dhamma, monks. That's how great the benefit is
> of obtaining the Dhamma eye."*

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Can someone who can read pali looking to the following Sutta for my fourth question. https://suttacentral.net/pi/sn48.24  
> **username_0**: I have never come across a Sutta which mention seven lives means seven fetters.  
> **username_3**: sn48.24 contains the word "sattak­khat­tu­paramo". The [PTS dictionary](http://dsalsrv02.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.3:1:3003.pali) says that this means (literally) "seven times at most" and interprets that to mean, "one who will not be reborn more than seven times" ... but Dhammadhatu has a different interpretation in his answer (consistent with his saying, elsewhere, that the suttas don't talk about rebirth), which is that this phrase is referring to seven remaining fetters.  
> **username_0**: Can you give me a Sutta where it says seven lives refer to seven fetters.Thanks.  
> **username_3**: I'm saying that the Pali word *sattak­khat­tu­paramo* literally says "seven at most" or something like that. Now whether that refers to "lives" or "fetters" is apparently a matter of interpretation. Like you I've read "seven lives" (in translations) so I guess that's the common translation/interpretation; and hadn't previously heard Dhammadhatu's interpretation of it as "seven fetters".  
> **username_2**: The sutta does not mention seven lives. The word "lives" is not in the Pali. The inclusion of "lives" is a mistranslation. The Pali is satta (seven) k­khat­tuṃ (times) ­paramatā (at most).  

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### Answer by username_4 on 2017-03-30. Score: 0

> What are asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī and sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī ?

[sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī](http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/sasankh%C4%81ra-parinibb%C4%81y%C4%AB) - 'one who reaches Nibbāna with exertion', is a name of one of the 5 kinds of Non-returners (anāgāmī).

[asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī](http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/asankh%C4%81ra-parinibb%C4%81y%C4%AB) - 'one who reaches Nibbāna with exertion', is a name of one of the 5 kinds of Non-returners (anāgāmī).

> Do dhammānusārī and saddhānusārī mean Cula Sotapanna?

Yes

> Is the maximum of seven lives applicable to Cula Sotapanna?

I do not think so. I think maximum of 7 lives is only applicable if you achieve Sotapanna.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: I suggest to examine AN 4.169 to check of the terms asaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī and sasaṅ­khā­ra­pari­nib­bāyī are explained in detail there. I am travelling now therefore do not have my Pali suttas with me. Regards  
> **username_0**: Thank you it was very helpful. -). In nut shell Sasankhara means Vipassana practitioner and Asankhara means Samatha practitioner.  
> **username_0**: Interesting discussion now you find here.https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/question-re-tatiya-vittha-ra-sutta/4774/15  
> **username_4**: [Sasankharika](http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/sasankharika) - prompted; [Asankharika](http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/asankharika) - unprompted or spontaneous.  

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