<p>It is my understanding that the Dalai Lama distinguishes enlightenment from Nirvana.  From such a distinction, the Theravada view is not inconsistent with the Mahayana view. Enlightened beings may or may not be Buddhas, but they are Bodhisattvas.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-26T11:58:19.047Z
2018-08-27T10:36:45.710Z
2018-08-27T10:36:45.710Z
Joshua
<p>It depends on who you ask. Theravadin Buddhism clearly says “No.” But Mahayana texts say it is more complicated. From my personal point of view, for what it is worth, given the psychological nature of nirvana (given, that is, it is a change in a state of awareness and connectedness and not a great increase in wisdom), a person would need to achieve nirvana a great multitude of times to acquire the wisdom of a Buddha. On grounds of compassion, I suspect, many Buddha-like beings continue to return to samara in order to teach Dharma and help their many friends who remain in samsara. Nonetheless, even if parinirvana is viewed as a heaven for Buddhas (a correct assumption, depending on which texts you consult), the Buddhas there remain connected with people in samsara and remain able to influence them and help them overcome suffering. In my view, those of us who are in samara are in great need of those Buddhas who decide to be reborn in samsara.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-22T17:22:59.190Z
2017-10-22T17:22:59.190Z
Ronald Cowen
<p>Theravada perspective: </p>

<p>According to <a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/iti/iti.2.028-049.than.html#iti-044" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Itivuttaka 44</a>, after final Nibbana, a living Arahant still experiences the <a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">five aggregates</a>, including the feeling of pain and pleasure, without the <a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">five aggregates</a> burning with the fires of passion, aversion and delusion. After the final extinguishment (parinibbana), there would no longer be the experience of the <a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">five aggregates</a> anywhere.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have
  heard: "Monks, there are these two forms of the Unbinding property.
  Which two? The Unbinding property with fuel remaining, &amp; the Unbinding
  property with no fuel remaining.</p>
  
  <p>And what is the Unbinding property with fuel remaining? There is the
  case where a monk is an arahant whose fermentations have ended, who
  has reached fulfillment, finished the task, laid down the burden,
  attained the true goal, ended the fetter of becoming, and is released
  through right gnosis. His five sense faculties still remain and, owing
  to their being intact, he is cognizant of the agreeable &amp; the
  disagreeable, and is sensitive to pleasure &amp; pain. His ending of
  passion, aversion, &amp; delusion is termed the Unbinding property with
  fuel remaining. (Note1)</p>
  
  <p>And what is the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining? There is
  the case where a monk is an arahant whose fermentations have ended,
  who has reached fulfillment, finished the task, laid down the burden,
  attained the true goal, ended the fetter of becoming, and is released
  through right gnosis. For him, all that is sensed, being unrelished,
  will grow cold right here. This is termed the Unbinding property with
  no fuel remaining." (Note2)</p>
  
  <p><strong>Note1 and Note2 (commentary by Thanissaro Bhikkhu):</strong><br>
  With fuel remaining (<em>sa-upadisesa</em>) and with no fuel
  remaining (<em>anupadisesa</em>): The analogy here is to a fire. In the first
  case, the flames are out, but the embers are still glowing. In the
  second, the fire is so thoroughly out that the embers have grown cold.
  The "fuel" here is the <a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">five aggregates</a>. While the arahant is still
  alive, he/she still experiences the five aggregates, but they do not
  burn with the fires of passion, aversion, or delusion. When the
  arahant passes away, there is no longer any experience of aggregates
  here or anywhere else.</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-27T14:25:50.093Z
2018-08-27T14:36:25.220Z
2018-08-27T14:36:25.220Z
ruben2020
<p>Mahayana perspective:</p>

<p>Although, when we use the word 'samsara' loosely, we refer to a place, strictly speaking, samsara refers to the contaminated aggregates (i.e. the aggregates one takes due to the power of karma and affliction). A so-called Hinayana arhat is free from that samsara.</p>

<p>While a so-called Hinayana arhat is not reborn due to the power of karma and afflictions, he is  subject to the 'inconceivable transformation birth' and the 'inconceivable transformation of death' due to the power of the imprints of ignorance. Being subject to the inconceivable transformation of birth means taking up a mental body due to the power of the imprints of ignorance.</p>

<p>In his commentary to 'Maitreya’s Sublime Continuum: The Essence of a One Gone Thus, with Commentary by Gyaltsap Darma Rinchen', Geshe Jamphel Gyaltsen says:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>What is called the inconceivable transformation of death is the
  destruction of the mental body and it is compared to the last of the
  12 links, aging and death. It is compared to the presentation of the
  twelve links of dependent origination of a person circling in samsara.
  Destruction in general, in the context of an ordinary being of the
  desire realm and form realm, (formless realm being apart) refers to
  old age and death. In order to take rebirth after death we go through
  the intermediate state. If after one week in the bardo, the bardo
  being has not taken another rebirth he takes another birth in the
  bardo until he finds a new birth outside the bardo. This goes on up to
  seven weeks with small deaths and births every seven weeks.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>His nirvana is not the final true cessation. In this sense, his nirvana is not final.</p>

<p>A fully enlightened Buddha is free from all types of rebirths. However, he can manifest or show the aspect of being born. We say that Shakyamuni Buddha was already enlightened at the time of his birth as Shakyamuni, but that he showed the aspect of being born... showed the aspect of undertaking austerities... showed the aspect of achieving enlightenment, etc.</p>

<p>The non-abiding nirvana of a Buddha is final in that it is the final true cessation free from the two obscurations. It benefits both others and oneself.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-27T11:01:47.330Z
2018-08-27T13:28:49.517Z
2018-08-27T13:28:49.517Z
Tenzin Dorje
<p>Mahayana perspective:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>"bodhi and nirvana are hitching posts for donkeys" -- Lin-ji</p>
</blockquote>

<p>There is no "before" and "after nirvana". It is timeless and self-existing.</p>

<p>There is no "one" to attain Nirvana or to be reborn and there never has been.</p>

<p>There is no "attainment", it is attainment of no attainment.</p>

<p>Directly understanding the above is called "First Bhumi". This is when the clouds open and the endless sky of Dharmakaya <em>that has always been there</em> is seen for the first time. However, Samsara and Nirvana still remain quite separate in one's mind, and one keeps hard-switching between Dharmakaya and ordinary world. From this moment on, through 10 Bhumi's one grows in ability to bridge the relative and the absolute in practice until the two are no longer two separate perspectives but one fully-integrated and highly-functional unity.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-17T17:56:01.967Z
2017-10-17T17:56:01.967Z
Andriy Volkov
<p>Is Nibbana final? Or if you attain Nibbana, can you be reborn again in Samsara if you wish?</p>

<nirvana><samsara>
After Nibbana, can one be reborn again in Samsara?
# After Nibbana, can one be reborn again in Samsara?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-10-17)

Is Nibbana final? Or if you attain Nibbana, can you be reborn again in Samsara if you wish?

**Tags:** nirvana, samsara


---

## 5 answers

### Answer by username_5 on 2017-10-17. Score: 4

Mahayana perspective:

> "bodhi and nirvana are hitching posts for donkeys" -- Lin-ji

There is no "before" and "after nirvana". It is timeless and self-existing.

There is no "one" to attain Nirvana or to be reborn and there never has been.

There is no "attainment", it is attainment of no attainment.

Directly understanding the above is called "First Bhumi". This is when the clouds open and the endless sky of Dharmakaya *that has always been there* is seen for the first time. However, Samsara and Nirvana still remain quite separate in one's mind, and one keeps hard-switching between Dharmakaya and ordinary world. From this moment on, through 10 Bhumi's one grows in ability to bridge the relative and the absolute in practice until the two are no longer two separate perspectives but one fully-integrated and highly-functional unity.


---

### Answer by username_1 on 2018-08-26. Score: 2

It is my understanding that the Dalai Lama distinguishes enlightenment from Nirvana. From such a distinction, the Theravada view is not inconsistent with the Mahayana view. Enlightened beings may or may not be Buddhas, but they are Bodhisattvas.


---

### Answer by username_2 on 2017-10-22. Score: 1

It depends on who you ask. Theravadin Buddhism clearly says “No.” But Mahayana texts say it is more complicated. From my personal point of view, for what it is worth, given the psychological nature of nirvana (given, that is, it is a change in a state of awareness and connectedness and not a great increase in wisdom), a person would need to achieve nirvana a great multitude of times to acquire the wisdom of a Buddha. On grounds of compassion, I suspect, many Buddha-like beings continue to return to samara in order to teach Dharma and help their many friends who remain in samsara. Nonetheless, even if parinirvana is viewed as a heaven for Buddhas (a correct assumption, depending on which texts you consult), the Buddhas there remain connected with people in samsara and remain able to influence them and help them overcome suffering. In my view, those of us who are in samara are in great need of those Buddhas who decide to be reborn in samsara.


---

### Answer by username_3 on 2018-08-27. Score: 1

Theravada perspective:

According to [Itivuttaka 44](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/iti/iti.2.028-049.than.html#iti-044), after final Nibbana, a living Arahant still experiences the [five aggregates](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html), including the feeling of pain and pleasure, without the [five aggregates](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html) burning with the fires of passion, aversion and delusion. After the final extinguishment (parinibbana), there would no longer be the experience of the [five aggregates](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html) anywhere.

> This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have
> heard: "Monks, there are these two forms of the Unbinding property.
> Which two? The Unbinding property with fuel remaining, & the Unbinding
> property with no fuel remaining.
>
> And what is the Unbinding property with fuel remaining? There is the
> case where a monk is an arahant whose fermentations have ended, who
> has reached fulfillment, finished the task, laid down the burden,
> attained the true goal, ended the fetter of becoming, and is released
> through right gnosis. His five sense faculties still remain and, owing
> to their being intact, he is cognizant of the agreeable & the
> disagreeable, and is sensitive to pleasure & pain. His ending of
> passion, aversion, & delusion is termed the Unbinding property with
> fuel remaining. (Note1)
>
> And what is the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining? There is
> the case where a monk is an arahant whose fermentations have ended,
> who has reached fulfillment, finished the task, laid down the burden,
> attained the true goal, ended the fetter of becoming, and is released
> through right gnosis. For him, all that is sensed, being unrelished,
> will grow cold right here. This is termed the Unbinding property with
> no fuel remaining." (Note2)
>
> **Note1 and Note2 (commentary by Thanissaro Bhikkhu):**  
> With fuel remaining (*sa-upadisesa*) and with no fuel
> remaining (*anupadisesa*): The analogy here is to a fire. In the first
> case, the flames are out, but the embers are still glowing. In the
> second, the fire is so thoroughly out that the embers have grown cold.
> The "fuel" here is the [five aggregates](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/khandha.html). While the arahant is still
> alive, he/she still experiences the five aggregates, but they do not
> burn with the fires of passion, aversion, or delusion. When the
> arahant passes away, there is no longer any experience of aggregates
> here or anywhere else.


---

### Answer by username_4 on 2018-08-27. Score: 1

Mahayana perspective:

Although, when we use the word 'samsara' loosely, we refer to a place, strictly speaking, samsara refers to the contaminated aggregates (i.e. the aggregates one takes due to the power of karma and affliction). A so-called Hinayana arhat is free from that samsara.

While a so-called Hinayana arhat is not reborn due to the power of karma and afflictions, he is subject to the 'inconceivable transformation birth' and the 'inconceivable transformation of death' due to the power of the imprints of ignorance. Being subject to the inconceivable transformation of birth means taking up a mental body due to the power of the imprints of ignorance.

In his commentary to 'Maitreya’s Sublime Continuum: The Essence of a One Gone Thus, with Commentary by Gyaltsap Darma Rinchen', Geshe Jamphel Gyaltsen says:

> What is called the inconceivable transformation of death is the
> destruction of the mental body and it is compared to the last of the
> 12 links, aging and death. It is compared to the presentation of the
> twelve links of dependent origination of a person circling in samsara.
> Destruction in general, in the context of an ordinary being of the
> desire realm and form realm, (formless realm being apart) refers to
> old age and death. In order to take rebirth after death we go through
> the intermediate state. If after one week in the bardo, the bardo
> being has not taken another rebirth he takes another birth in the
> bardo until he finds a new birth outside the bardo. This goes on up to
> seven weeks with small deaths and births every seven weeks.

His nirvana is not the final true cessation. In this sense, his nirvana is not final.

A fully enlightened Buddha is free from all types of rebirths. However, he can manifest or show the aspect of being born. We say that Shakyamuni Buddha was already enlightened at the time of his birth as Shakyamuni, but that he showed the aspect of being born... showed the aspect of undertaking austerities... showed the aspect of achieving enlightenment, etc.

The non-abiding nirvana of a Buddha is final in that it is the final true cessation free from the two obscurations. It benefits both others and oneself.


---

