<p>Calm (pasada) is the precondition of Sukha (heal, happiness) on the lokuttara-paṭiccasamuppāda, co-depending-path beyond, found in all teachings of the path.</p>

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2022-10-09T15:48:25.210Z
https://buddhism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2661/should-we-use-honorifics-when-referring-to-monks
ChrisW
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2022-10-09T09:58:16.870Z
2022-10-09T15:48:36.713Z
2022-10-09T15:48:36.713Z
user24217
<blockquote>
<p>&quot;There’s no fire like passion, no loss like anger, no pain like the aggregates, no ease other than peace.&quot;</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>~ Dhammapada 202, transl. Thanissaro <a href="https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/Dhp/Ch15.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/Dhp/Ch15.html</a></p>
</blockquote>

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2022-10-09T18:13:09.573Z
Thanks, I think this might be what I was thinking of. What I wanted to see was the phrasing: it should be "other than", as you quoted, and not "without", as I wrote. Venerable Thanissaro explains it's an important difference, here: https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/ePubDhammaTalks_v3/Section0079.html
stick-in-hand
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2022-10-11T18:08:08.553Z
is passion the same as lust?  it could be, but perhaps passion can still be good...
blue_ego
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2022-10-09T01:11:42.877Z
2022-10-09T01:11:42.877Z
Antony Woods
<p>It's the other way round according to <a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.001.than.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Kimattha Sutta</a>.</p>
<p>Without joy, you cannot have serenity.</p>
<p>Without serenity, you cannot have concentration.</p>
<p>Without concentration, you cannot become liberated i.e. attain Nibbana.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=204" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Dhammapada 204</a> says that Nibbana is the highest bliss. And without serenity, you cannot attain the highest bliss. So the other way round is also explainable.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>&quot;Thus in this way, Ananda, skillful virtues have freedom from remorse
as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward. Freedom from
remorse has joy as its purpose, joy as its reward. Joy has rapture as
its purpose, rapture as its reward. Rapture has serenity as its
purpose, serenity as its reward. Serenity has pleasure as its purpose,
pleasure as its reward. Pleasure has concentration as its purpose,
concentration as its reward. Concentration has knowledge &amp; vision of
things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge &amp; vision of
things as they actually are as its reward. Knowledge &amp; vision of
things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose,
disenchantment as its reward. Disenchantment has dispassion as its
purpose, dispassion as its reward. Dispassion has knowledge &amp; vision
of release as its purpose, knowledge &amp; vision of release as its reward.</p>
<p>&quot;In this way, Ananda, skillful virtues lead step-by-step to the
consummation of arahantship.&quot;<br />
<a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.001.than.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Kimattha Sutta</a> (Ven. Thanissaro's translation)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The Pali terms used:</p>
<ul>
<li>skillful virtues (or skillful ethics) = <a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=s%C4%ABla&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><em>sīlā</em></a></li>
<li>freedom from remorse (or having no regrets) = <a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=avippa%E1%B9%ADis%C4%81ra&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><em>avippaṭisāra</em></a></li>
<li>joy = <a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=p%C4%81mujja&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><em>pāmojja</em></a></li>
<li>rapture = <a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=p%C4%ABti&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><em>pīti</em></a></li>
<li>serenity (or tranquility) = <a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=passaddha&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><em>passaddha</em></a></li>
<li>pleasure (or bliss) = <a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=sukha&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><em>sukha</em></a></li>
<li>concentration (or immersion) = <a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=sam%C4%81dhi&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><em>samādhi</em></a></li>
<li>knowledge &amp; vision of things as they actually are = <em><a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=yatha&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer">yathābhūta</a><a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=%C3%B1%C4%81%E1%B9%87a&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer">ñāṇa</a><a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=dassana&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer">dassana</a></em></li>
<li>disenchantment (or disillusionment) = <a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=nibbid%C4%81&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><em>nibbidā</em></a></li>
<li>dispassion = <a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=vir%C4%81ga&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><em>virāga</em></a></li>
<li>knowledge &amp; vision of release = <em><a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=vimutti&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer">vimutti</a><a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=%C3%B1%C4%81%E1%B9%87a&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer">ñāṇa</a><a href="https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=dassana&amp;searchhws=yes&amp;matchtype=exact" rel="nofollow noreferrer">dassana</a></em></li>
</ul>
<p>Please see <a href="https://suttacentral.net/an10.1/en/sujato?layout=linebyline&amp;reference=none&amp;notes=asterisk&amp;highlight=false&amp;script=latin" rel="nofollow noreferrer">here</a> for Pali-English translation based on Ven. Sujato's translation.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-10-07T08:56:59.773Z
Nice. And I noticed that in the updated version of Kimattha Sutta, Ajahn Geoff has replaced the word "Serenity" with "Calm". Thanks.
stick-in-hand
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2022-10-07T10:26:47.693Z
Wow this is great
blue_ego
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2022-10-09T21:04:41.697Z
I referred to the translator, but omitted the word "Ajaan" before his birth name. Very sloppy, but no disrespect was intended. Sincere apologies to anyone offended by my blunder.
stick-in-hand
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2022-10-10T06:17:39.690Z
And now I've edited that comment.
ChrisW
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2022-10-11T13:47:31.340Z
Am I right here that joy and rapture and serenity here is piti and sukha? As in one needs piti and sukha to then cultivate jhana (concentration)
Remyla
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2022-10-11T18:08:36.573Z
@Remyla https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/piti
blue_ego
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2022-10-11T18:14:43.473Z
@Remyla it can be hard to get exact translations, but you can try...i think sukha means well-being (happiness)
blue_ego
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2022-10-11T18:32:42.913Z
@Remyla the entire dialog sounds like jhana unfolding
blue_ego
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2022-10-11T21:02:22.140Z
@Remyla In this translation by Ven. Thanissaro, joy is pamojja, rapture is piti, serenity is passaddha and pleasure is sukha. For the original Pali you can find it together with Ven. Sujato's translation [here](https://suttacentral.net/an10.1/en/sujato?layout=linebyline&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin) (click View and enable translation if you don't see it). He translated passaddha as tranquility and sukha as bliss. Ven.  Bodhi too translated sukha as pleasure. The sutta is definitely talking about piti and sukha of jhana.
ruben2020
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2022-10-11T22:45:30.677Z
I asked because it seemed like the bojhangas and at least a sort of successive stages or perquisites for jhana progression. Was just trying to clarify my assumptions and it seems from what you all replied with my assumption was correct.
Remyla
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-10-12T07:11:14.240Z
@blue_hefe There's a readable dictionary here of frequently-used terms: [sukha](http://www.buddha-vacana.org/gloss.html#sukha). And [here](https://suttacentral.net/terminology?lang=en). And in detail, quoting the PTS dictionary, [here](https://suttacentral.net/define/sukha). Also [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukha). I suppose I think of it as the more-or-less the opposite of, perhaps more precisely the absence of, dukkha.
ChrisW
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2022-10-12T12:41:45.760Z
@ChrisW yes, i understand the same, opposites
blue_ego
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2022-10-12T12:46:41.827Z
@blue_hefe I was going to say that "it's the opposite *thing*", but to the extent that "every (conditioned) thing is dukkha", maybe sukha isn't a thing but maybe more like an absence (and maybe therefore not very attractive to some people) -- see e.g. [this answer](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/35353/254).
ChrisW
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2022-10-07T00:54:33.433Z
2022-10-12T12:15:25.173Z
2022-10-12T12:15:25.173Z
ruben2020
<p>Where in the canon does the Buddha say, There is no happiness without calm?</p>
<p>I've heard the statement only second hand, and paraphrased.</p>

<theravada><reference-request><pali-canon><happiness>
Where does the Buddha say, There is no happiness without calm?
# Where does the Buddha say, There is no happiness without calm?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2022-10-06)

Where in the canon does the Buddha say, There is no happiness without calm?

I've heard the statement only second hand, and paraphrased.

**Tags:** theravada, reference-request, pali-canon, happiness


---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2022-10-09. Score: 2 | Accepted answer

> "There’s no fire like passion, no loss like anger, no pain like the aggregates, no ease other than peace."

> ~ Dhammapada 202, transl. Thanissaro <https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/KN/Dhp/Ch15.html>

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks, I think this might be what I was thinking of. What I wanted to see was the phrasing: it should be "other than", as you quoted, and not "without", as I wrote. Venerable Thanissaro explains it's an important difference, here: https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/ePubDhammaTalks_v3/Section0079.html  
> **username_4**: is passion the same as lust?  it could be, but perhaps passion can still be good...  

---

### Answer by username_5 on 2022-10-07. Score: 3

It's the other way round according to [Kimattha Sutta](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.001.than.html).

Without joy, you cannot have serenity.

Without serenity, you cannot have concentration.

Without concentration, you cannot become liberated i.e. attain Nibbana.

[Dhammapada 204](https://www.tipitaka.net/tipitaka/dhp/verseload.php?verse=204) says that Nibbana is the highest bliss. And without serenity, you cannot attain the highest bliss. So the other way round is also explainable.

> "Thus in this way, Ananda, skillful virtues have freedom from remorse
> as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward. Freedom from
> remorse has joy as its purpose, joy as its reward. Joy has rapture as
> its purpose, rapture as its reward. Rapture has serenity as its
> purpose, serenity as its reward. Serenity has pleasure as its purpose,
> pleasure as its reward. Pleasure has concentration as its purpose,
> concentration as its reward. Concentration has knowledge & vision of
> things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of
> things as they actually are as its reward. Knowledge & vision of
> things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose,
> disenchantment as its reward. Disenchantment has dispassion as its
> purpose, dispassion as its reward. Dispassion has knowledge & vision
> of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward.
>
> "In this way, Ananda, skillful virtues lead step-by-step to the
> consummation of arahantship."  
> [Kimattha Sutta](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an11/an11.001.than.html) (Ven. Thanissaro's translation)

The Pali terms used:

* skillful virtues (or skillful ethics) = [*sīlā*](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=s%C4%ABla&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)
* freedom from remorse (or having no regrets) = [*avippaṭisāra*](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=avippa%E1%B9%ADis%C4%81ra&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)
* joy = [*pāmojja*](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=p%C4%81mujja&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)
* rapture = [*pīti*](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=p%C4%ABti&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)
* serenity (or tranquility) = [*passaddha*](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=passaddha&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)
* pleasure (or bliss) = [*sukha*](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=sukha&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)
* concentration (or immersion) = [*samādhi*](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=sam%C4%81dhi&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)
* knowledge & vision of things as they actually are = *[yathābhūta](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=yatha&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)[ñāṇa](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=%C3%B1%C4%81%E1%B9%87a&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)[dassana](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=dassana&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)*
* disenchantment (or disillusionment) = [*nibbidā*](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=nibbid%C4%81&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)
* dispassion = [*virāga*](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=vir%C4%81ga&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)
* knowledge & vision of release = *[vimutti](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=vimutti&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)[ñāṇa](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=%C3%B1%C4%81%E1%B9%87a&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)[dassana](https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=dassana&searchhws=yes&matchtype=exact)*

Please see [here](https://suttacentral.net/an10.1/en/sujato?layout=linebyline&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin) for Pali-English translation based on Ven. Sujato's translation.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Nice. And I noticed that in the updated version of Kimattha Sutta, Ajahn Geoff has replaced the word "Serenity" with "Calm". Thanks.  
> **username_4**: Wow this is great  
> **username_0**: I referred to the translator, but omitted the word "Ajaan" before his birth name. Very sloppy, but no disrespect was intended. Sincere apologies to anyone offended by my blunder.  
> **username_2**: And now I've edited that comment.  
> **username_6**: Am I right here that joy and rapture and serenity here is piti and sukha? As in one needs piti and sukha to then cultivate jhana (concentration)  
> **username_4**: @username_6 https://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/piti  
> **username_4**: @username_6 it can be hard to get exact translations, but you can try...i think sukha means well-being (happiness)  
> **username_4**: @username_6 the entire dialog sounds like jhana unfolding  
> **username_5**: @username_6 In this translation by Ven. Thanissaro, joy is pamojja, rapture is piti, serenity is passaddha and pleasure is sukha. For the original Pali you can find it together with Ven. Sujato's translation [here](https://suttacentral.net/an10.1/en/sujato?layout=linebyline&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin) (click View and enable translation if you don't see it). He translated passaddha as tranquility and sukha as bliss. Ven.  Bodhi too translated sukha as pleasure. The sutta is definitely talking about piti and sukha of jhana.  
> **username_6**: I asked because it seemed like the bojhangas and at least a sort of successive stages or perquisites for jhana progression. Was just trying to clarify my assumptions and it seems from what you all replied with my assumption was correct.  
> **username_2**: @blue_hefe There's a readable dictionary here of frequently-used terms: [sukha](http://www.buddha-vacana.org/gloss.html#sukha). And [here](https://suttacentral.net/terminology?lang=en). And in detail, quoting the PTS dictionary, [here](https://suttacentral.net/define/sukha). Also [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukha). I suppose I think of it as the more-or-less the opposite of, perhaps more precisely the absence of, dukkha.  
> **username_4**: @username_2 yes, i understand the same, opposites  
> **username_2**: @blue_hefe I was going to say that "it's the opposite *thing*", but to the extent that "every (conditioned) thing is dukkha", maybe sukha isn't a thing but maybe more like an absence (and maybe therefore not very attractive to some people) -- see e.g. [this answer](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/35353/254).  

---

### Answer by username_1 on 2022-10-09. Score: 0

Calm (pasada) is the precondition of Sukha (heal, happiness) on the lokuttara-paṭiccasamuppāda, co-depending-path beyond, found in all teachings of the path.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: https://buddhism.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2661/should-we-use-honorifics-when-referring-to-monks  

---

