<blockquote>
<p>Yāvañcidaṁ, bhikkhave, alameva sabbas<strong>aṅkhāre</strong>su nibbindituṁ alaṁ
virajjituṁ alaṁ vimuccitun”ti</p>
<p>This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned towards all formations, dispassionate towards them and freed from them.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The word compound sabbasaṅkhāresu ends in 'esu', which in grammar is called 'locative case'. Based on the translation, this appears to mean the sabbe sankhara (all formations) is the location or place of the disillusionment, dispassion &amp; freedom from. Therefore, 'them' refers to 'all formations'.</p>
<p>Sujato translates the sentence in a similar manner, as:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate,
and freed regarding all conditions.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Thanissaro translates the sentence differently to Bodhi &amp; Sujato as:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to
become dispassionate, enough to be released</p>
</blockquote>
<p>What are &quot;formations&quot; are concepts such has &quot;beings&quot;, &quot;my mother&quot;, &quot;grandmothers&quot;, etc. Suttas such as <a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn23/sn23.002.than.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">SN 23.2</a>, <a href="https://suttacentral.net/sn5.10/en/bodhi" rel="nofollow noreferrer">SN 5.10</a> &amp; MN 98 clearly says the idea of &quot;beings&quot; is a convention or view. The word &quot;beings&quot; here does not refer to physical organisms.</p>
<p>SN 12.2 makes this very clear when it says 'jati' is the birth of [conventions of] various &quot;beings&quot; in this &amp; that &quot;class of beings&quot;. &quot;Mother&quot;, &quot;grandmothers&quot;, etc, are classes of beings.</p>
<p>&quot;Samsara' itself means '<em>continuously grasping the five aggregates as self or selves</em>'. <a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.099.than.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">SN 22.99</a> makes this clear.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-06-29T11:18:00.947Z
I chose the other answer because it addressed my mistake directly, but the rigor here is deeply appreciated. Comparing translations really opens up the meaning. This was my first question on this stack, and wow, I'm glad I joined.
asmacdo
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-06-29T18:53:23.780Z
Thank you. You are welcome.
Dhamma Dhatu
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-06-29T06:39:04.220Z
2023-06-29T07:05:12.390Z
2023-06-29T07:05:12.390Z
Dhamma Dhatu
<p>I think you're seeing that in a translation of <a href="http://www.suttas.com/chapter-4-anamatagga-samyutta-on-without-discoverable-beginning8203.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">SN 15.4</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Good, good, bhikkhus! It is good that you understand the Dhamma taught by me in such a way. The mother's milk that you have drunk as you roamed and wandered through this long course-this alone is more than the water in the four great oceans. For what reason? Because, bhikkhus, this samsara is without discoverable beginning .... It is enough to be liberated from them.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The ellipsis is because this sutta repeats a phrase or forumula from a previous sutta, which is elided in this sutta.</p>
<p>This is so in <a href="https://suttacentral.net/sn15.4/en/sujato?layout=linebyline&amp;reference=none&amp;notes=asterisk&amp;highlight=false&amp;script=latin" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Ven. Sujato's translation</a> also:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Why is that?<br />
<em>Taṁ kissa hetu?</em><br />
Transmigration has no known beginning. …<br />
<em>Anamataggoyaṁ, bhikkhave, saṁsāro …pe…</em><br />
This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.”<br />
<em>alaṁ vimuccitun”ti</em>.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>To understand it, to see what was elided, refer to a previous sutta i.e. <a href="https://suttacentral.net/sn15.2/en/sujato?layout=linebyline&amp;reference=none&amp;notes=asterisk&amp;highlight=false&amp;script=latin" rel="nofollow noreferrer">SN 15.2</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Why is that?<br />
<em>Taṁ kissa hetu?</em><br />
Transmigration has no known beginning.<br />
<em>Anamataggoyaṁ, bhikkhave, saṁsāro.</em><br />
No first point is found of sentient beings roaming and transmigrating, shrouded  by ignorance and fettered by craving.<br />
<em>Pubbā koṭi na paññāyati avijjānīvaraṇānaṁ sattānaṁ taṇhāsaṁyojanānaṁ sandhāvataṁ saṁsarataṁ.</em><br />
For such a long time you have undergone suffering, agony, and disaster, swelling the cemeteries.<br />
<em>Evaṁ dīgharattaṁ vo, bhikkhave, dukkhaṁ paccanubhūtaṁ tibbaṁ paccanubhūtaṁ byasanaṁ paccanubhūtaṁ, kaṭasī vaḍḍhitā.</em><br />
This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.”<br />
<em>Yāvañcidaṁ, bhikkhave, alameva sabbasaṅkhāresu nibbindituṁ, alaṁ virajjituṁ, alaṁ vimuccitun”ti.</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>So I think the answer is, &quot;freed regarding <em>all conditions</em>&quot; (i.e. <em>sabbasaṅkhāresu</em> -- sabb + saṅkhār)</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-06-29T11:07:47.820Z
Missing the elided part was indeed my problem.
asmacdo
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-06-29T06:44:14.180Z
2023-06-29T06:44:14.180Z
ChrisW
<p>In Bhikku Bodhi's translations, &quot;without discoverable beginning&quot; suttas end with:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>This Samsara is without discoverable beginning. It is enough to be liberated <em>from them</em>.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Liberated from what, in this context?</p>

<translation><sutta-reference>
Without discoverable beginning "it is enough to be liberated from them" What is "them"?
# Without discoverable beginning "it is enough to be liberated from them" What is "them"?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-06-29)

In Bhikku Bodhi's translations, "without discoverable beginning" suttas end with:

> This Samsara is without discoverable beginning. It is enough to be liberated *from them*.

Liberated from what, in this context?

**Tags:** translation, sutta-reference


---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2023-06-29. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

I think you're seeing that in a translation of [SN 15.4](http://www.suttas.com/chapter-4-anamatagga-samyutta-on-without-discoverable-beginning8203.html)

> Good, good, bhikkhus! It is good that you understand the Dhamma taught by me in such a way. The mother's milk that you have drunk as you roamed and wandered through this long course-this alone is more than the water in the four great oceans. For what reason? Because, bhikkhus, this samsara is without discoverable beginning .... It is enough to be liberated from them.

The ellipsis is because this sutta repeats a phrase or forumula from a previous sutta, which is elided in this sutta.

This is so in [Ven. Sujato's translation](https://suttacentral.net/sn15.4/en/sujato?layout=linebyline&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin) also:

> Why is that?  
> *Taṁ kissa hetu?*  
> Transmigration has no known beginning. …  
> *Anamataggoyaṁ, bhikkhave, saṁsāro …pe…*  
> This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.”  
> *alaṁ vimuccitun”ti*.

To understand it, to see what was elided, refer to a previous sutta i.e. [SN 15.2](https://suttacentral.net/sn15.2/en/sujato?layout=linebyline&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin)

> Why is that?  
> *Taṁ kissa hetu?*  
> Transmigration has no known beginning.  
> *Anamataggoyaṁ, bhikkhave, saṁsāro.*  
> No first point is found of sentient beings roaming and transmigrating, shrouded by ignorance and fettered by craving.  
> *Pubbā koṭi na paññāyati avijjānīvaraṇānaṁ sattānaṁ taṇhāsaṁyojanānaṁ sandhāvataṁ saṁsarataṁ.*  
> For such a long time you have undergone suffering, agony, and disaster, swelling the cemeteries.  
> *Evaṁ dīgharattaṁ vo, bhikkhave, dukkhaṁ paccanubhūtaṁ tibbaṁ paccanubhūtaṁ byasanaṁ paccanubhūtaṁ, kaṭasī vaḍḍhitā.*  
> This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.”  
> *Yāvañcidaṁ, bhikkhave, alameva sabbasaṅkhāresu nibbindituṁ, alaṁ virajjituṁ, alaṁ vimuccitun”ti.*

So I think the answer is, "freed regarding *all conditions*" (i.e. *sabbasaṅkhāresu* -- sabb + saṅkhār)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Missing the elided part was indeed my problem.  

---

### Answer by username_1 on 2023-06-29. Score: 2

> Yāvañcidaṁ, bhikkhave, alameva sabbas**aṅkhāre**su nibbindituṁ alaṁ
> virajjituṁ alaṁ vimuccitun”ti
>
> This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned towards all formations, dispassionate towards them and freed from them.

The word compound sabbasaṅkhāresu ends in 'esu', which in grammar is called 'locative case'. Based on the translation, this appears to mean the sabbe sankhara (all formations) is the location or place of the disillusionment, dispassion & freedom from. Therefore, 'them' refers to 'all formations'.

Sujato translates the sentence in a similar manner, as:

> This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate,
> and freed regarding all conditions.

Thanissaro translates the sentence differently to Bodhi & Sujato as:

> Enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to
> become dispassionate, enough to be released

What are "formations" are concepts such has "beings", "my mother", "grandmothers", etc. Suttas such as [SN 23.2](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn23/sn23.002.than.html), [SN 5.10](https://suttacentral.net/sn5.10/en/bodhi) & MN 98 clearly says the idea of "beings" is a convention or view. The word "beings" here does not refer to physical organisms.

SN 12.2 makes this very clear when it says 'jati' is the birth of [conventions of] various "beings" in this & that "class of beings". "Mother", "grandmothers", etc, are classes of beings.

"Samsara' itself means '*continuously grasping the five aggregates as self or selves*'. [SN 22.99](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.099.than.html) makes this clear.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I chose the other answer because it addressed my mistake directly, but the rigor here is deeply appreciated. Comparing translations really opens up the meaning. This was my first question on this stack, and wow, I'm glad I joined.  
> **username_1**: Thank you. You are welcome.  

---

