<p>SN 22.87 refers to 'unestablished consciousness' (appatiṭṭhitena viññāṇena), which is well explained in <a href="https://suttacentral.net/sn22.53/en/bodhi?lang=en&amp;reference=none&amp;highlight=false" rel="nofollow noreferrer">SN 22.53</a>. Unestablished consciousness can only occur when life is conscious rather than when life ends.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Bhikkhus, though someone might say: ‘Apart from form, apart from feeling, apart from perception, apart from volitional formations, I will make known the coming and going of consciousness, its passing away and rebirth, its growth, increase, and expansion’ — that is impossible.</p>
<p>Bhikkhus, if a bhikkhu has abandoned lust for the form element, with
the abandoning of lust the basis is cut off: there is no support for
the establishing of consciousness. If he has abandoned lust for the
feeling element … for the perception element … for the volitional
formations element … for the consciousness element, with the
abandoning of lust the basis is cut off: there is no support for the
establishing of consciousness.</p>
<p>When that consciousness is unestablished, not coming to growth,
nongenerative, it is liberated. By being liberated, it is steady; by
being steady, it is content; by being content, he is not agitated.
Being unagitated, he personally attains Nibbāna.</p>
<p><a href="https://suttacentral.net/sn22.53/en/bodhi?lang=en&amp;reference=none&amp;highlight=false" rel="nofollow noreferrer">SN 22.53</a></p>
</blockquote>

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2024-07-13T05:52:04.050Z
2024-07-13T05:52:04.050Z
Dhamma Dhatu
<p>Yes. Vakkali entered Nibbana at the time of his death.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>“That, bhikkhus, is Mara the Evil One searching for the consciousness
of the clansman Vakkali, wondering: ‘Where now has the consciousness
of the clansman Vakkali been established?’ However, bhikkhus, with
consciousness unestablished, the clansman Vakkali has attained final
Nibbāna.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p><em>&quot;Where is the story between these?&quot;</em></p>
<p><a href="https://suttacentral.net/sn22.87/en/bodhi?lang=en&amp;reference=none&amp;highlight=false" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://suttacentral.net/sn22.87/en/bodhi?lang=en&amp;reference=none&amp;highlight=false</a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-07-17T14:53:18.293Z
related: https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/q/26074/19249
blue_ego
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-07-13T05:12:14.317Z
2024-07-16T01:35:36.997Z
2024-07-16T01:35:36.997Z
SacrificialEquation
<p><a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.087x.wlsh.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">V. Vakkali is sick</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>&quot;Are you feeling better, Vakkali? Are you bearing up? Are your pains
getting better and not worse? Are there signs that they are getting
better and not worse?&quot;[2]</p>
<p>&quot;No, Lord, I do not feel better, I am not bearing up. I have severe
pains, and they are getting worse, not better. There is no sign of
improvement, only of worsening.&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;Have you any doubts, Vakkali? Have you any cause for regret?&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;Indeed, Lord, I have many doubts. I have much cause for regret.&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;Have you nothing to reproach yourself about as regards morals?&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;No, Lord, I have nothing to reproach myself about as regards morals.&quot;</p>
<p>&quot;Well then, Vakkali, if you have nothing to reproach yourself about as
regards morals, you must have some worry or scruple that is troubling
you.&quot;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Later:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Then the Blessed One went with a large number of monks to the Black
Rock on the slope of Isigili. From afar he saw Ven. Vakkali lying dead
on a couch. Now, at that time a smokiness, a darkness was moving to
the east, moving to the west, moving to the north, the south, above,
below, moving to the intermediate directions. The Blessed One said,
“Monks, do you see that smokiness, that darkness…?”</p>
<p>“Yes, lord.”</p>
<p>“That’s Māra, the Evil One. He’s searching for the consciousness of
Vakkali the clansman: ‘Where is the consciousness of Vakkali the
clansman established?’ But, monks, through unestablished
consciousness, Vakkali the clansman has totally unbound.” — SN 22:87</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Where is the story between these?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-07-16T00:33:48.680Z
related: https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/9557/why-does-mara-the-evil-one-one-comes-looking-for-consciousness-at-death#9559
blue_ego
<nirvana>
Did Vakkali enter nirvana at the time of death?
# Did Vakkali enter nirvana at the time of death?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-07-12)

[V. Vakkali is sick](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn22/sn22.087x.wlsh.html):

> "Are you feeling better, Vakkali? Are you bearing up? Are your pains
> getting better and not worse? Are there signs that they are getting
> better and not worse?"[2]
>
> "No, Lord, I do not feel better, I am not bearing up. I have severe
> pains, and they are getting worse, not better. There is no sign of
> improvement, only of worsening."
>
> "Have you any doubts, Vakkali? Have you any cause for regret?"
>
> "Indeed, Lord, I have many doubts. I have much cause for regret."
>
> "Have you nothing to reproach yourself about as regards morals?"
>
> "No, Lord, I have nothing to reproach myself about as regards morals."
>
> "Well then, Vakkali, if you have nothing to reproach yourself about as
> regards morals, you must have some worry or scruple that is troubling
> you."

Later:

> Then the Blessed One went with a large number of monks to the Black
> Rock on the slope of Isigili. From afar he saw Ven. Vakkali lying dead
> on a couch. Now, at that time a smokiness, a darkness was moving to
> the east, moving to the west, moving to the north, the south, above,
> below, moving to the intermediate directions. The Blessed One said,
> “Monks, do you see that smokiness, that darkness…?”
>
> “Yes, lord.”
>
> “That’s Māra, the Evil One. He’s searching for the consciousness of
> Vakkali the clansman: ‘Where is the consciousness of Vakkali the
> clansman established?’ But, monks, through unestablished
> consciousness, Vakkali the clansman has totally unbound.” — SN 22:87

Where is the story between these?

**Tags:** nirvana

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: related: https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/9557/why-does-mara-the-evil-one-one-comes-looking-for-consciousness-at-death#9559  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2024-07-13. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

Yes. Vakkali entered Nibbana at the time of his death.

> “That, bhikkhus, is Mara the Evil One searching for the consciousness
> of the clansman Vakkali, wondering: ‘Where now has the consciousness
> of the clansman Vakkali been established?’ However, bhikkhus, with
> consciousness unestablished, the clansman Vakkali has attained final
> Nibbāna.”

*"Where is the story between these?"*

<https://suttacentral.net/sn22.87/en/bodhi?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false>

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: related: https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/q/26074/19249  

---

### Answer by username_1 on 2024-07-13. Score: 0

SN 22.87 refers to 'unestablished consciousness' (appatiṭṭhitena viññāṇena), which is well explained in [SN 22.53](https://suttacentral.net/sn22.53/en/bodhi?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false). Unestablished consciousness can only occur when life is conscious rather than when life ends.

> Bhikkhus, though someone might say: ‘Apart from form, apart from feeling, apart from perception, apart from volitional formations, I will make known the coming and going of consciousness, its passing away and rebirth, its growth, increase, and expansion’ — that is impossible.
>
> Bhikkhus, if a bhikkhu has abandoned lust for the form element, with
> the abandoning of lust the basis is cut off: there is no support for
> the establishing of consciousness. If he has abandoned lust for the
> feeling element … for the perception element … for the volitional
> formations element … for the consciousness element, with the
> abandoning of lust the basis is cut off: there is no support for the
> establishing of consciousness.
>
> When that consciousness is unestablished, not coming to growth,
> nongenerative, it is liberated. By being liberated, it is steady; by
> being steady, it is content; by being content, he is not agitated.
> Being unagitated, he personally attains Nibbāna.
>
> [SN 22.53](https://suttacentral.net/sn22.53/en/bodhi?lang=en&reference=none&highlight=false)


---

