<p>The Pali suttas have the following stock phrase about the best time being when you become dispassionate in continuing the lay life:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p><em>Now, there is the case where a Tathāgata appears in the world, worthy and rightly self-awakened. He teaches the Dhamma admirable in its
  beginning, admirable in its middle, admirable in its end. He proclaims
  the holy life both in its particulars and in its essence, entirely
  perfect, surpassingly pure.</em></p>
  
  <p><em>He [the person discussed above], hearing the Dhamma, gains conviction in the Tathāgata and reflects: '<strong>Household life is confining, a dusty
  path</strong>. Life gone forth is the open air. It isn't easy, living at
  home, to practice the holy life totally perfect, totally pure, a
  polished shell. What if I, having shaved off my hair &amp; beard and
  putting on the ochre robe, were to go forth from the household life
  into homelessness?'</em></p>
  
  <p><em>So after some time he abandons his mass of wealth, large or small; leaves his circle of relatives, large or small; shaves off his hair
  and beard, puts on the ochre robes, and goes forth from the household
  life into homelessness.</em></p>
  
  <p><em>MN 38</em></p>
</blockquote>

<p>Some men still delight in sex but become monks because they think jhana will give them a better type of orgasmic pleasure. It is doubtful these men can succeed. </p>

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2018-10-07T08:31:30.480Z
Why are you bringing up sex now? It wasn't even mentioned in my question.
Val
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2018-10-07T08:34:50.277Z
Imo it is very important to feel pleasant feelings during the path. Whether this is due to Jhana or from somewhere else, positive feelings give rise to conviction in the teaching. It ia very hard to quit sensual pleasures and, at the same time, be in a vacuum, that is, having no alternative pleasure at hand.
Val
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2018-10-07T10:01:36.007Z
Not for me. I gave up sex for 18 months because discovering buddhism and meditation. regards
Dhamma Dhatu
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2018-10-07T11:32:12.563Z
@Val One reason for bringing it up now might be that ordained monks are supposed to be strictly [celibate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_sexuality#Celibacy_and_monasticism).
ChrisW
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2018-10-07T13:36:54.300Z
Yes DD, but during your discovery in dhamma & meditation you had other spiritual pleasures, didn't you?
Val
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2018-10-07T13:44:40.627Z
@ChrisW, I am aware of celibacy, however, DD was referring to men delighting in sex, who then become monks because they BELIEVE (key word here) that jhana  will outpass  sex in terms of pleasure. I'm not disputing this, but experiencing Jhana is one thing, talking about it intellectually and building a belief system is another (in this case those mentioned monks that blindly believe in Jhana this and that). I humbly admit that I haven't experienced it, and personally  see a connection between positive spiritual feelings and continuation on the path/ordination.
Val
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2018-10-07T13:44:47.260Z
If the path is painful it's doubtful thar one will continue in it. Similarly, if one gives up sense pleasures and has no spiritual pleasures as an alternative one will probably burn out. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Val
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2018-10-07T15:12:58.760Z
@Val I see the "purpose" (of the dhamma) as being the "cessation of suffering" (rather than the "arising of pleasure"); and the "method" as being "renunciation and letting go" rather than "pursuit and re-acquisition". Other activity/state/absorption (other than sex) can be experienced as pleasant, however turning around and pursuing such pleasure might be something of a mistake (a mistake analogous to trying to breathe by holding your breath). I'm not saying you're wrong though, perhaps our descriptions are different parts or views (different scales/magnifications) of some similar elephants.
ChrisW
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2018-10-07T15:14:44.340Z
As for "burning out" I imagine that the great thing about ordaining is the support of, the social contact with the sangha: "Half the holy life" and so on.
ChrisW
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2018-10-07T00:04:26.437Z
2018-10-07T00:04:26.437Z
Dhamma Dhatu
<p><em>When is the best time for ordination?</em></p>

<p>Now. Don't waste time. Intentions are not for sure.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-10-07T13:32:20.457Z
This is not the word by the Buddha. The Buddha, to my knowledge, never taught to lay people immediately  the 4 NT, instead he gave talks on more feasible topics like generosity, virtue, and the drawbacks of sensuality and the benefit of renunciation. Similarly, going straight for monastic life while still seeing the advantages in lay life will probably only cause problems.
Val
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2018-10-08T12:26:17.147Z
This **is** not the word by the Buddha. The Buddha, to **my knowledge**...
Samana Johann
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2018-10-08T12:33:35.640Z
What are trying to say? Are yoh the person that is trying so hard and who is always saying "my person" instead of "I" ? You know that conventions exist and by doing your approach you just proof that you just bolster the "I" even further?
Val
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2018-10-08T12:42:07.200Z
see "Intentions are not for sure", the tiny whole one had to wlak on is already destructed... access for long time cut off...
Samana Johann
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2018-10-07T11:31:43.440Z
2018-10-07T11:31:43.440Z
Samana Johann
<p>To try to complement other answers:</p>

<ul>
<li>A long time ago -- some schools of Buddhism involve 20-odd years of training and people start as children, though perhaps they don't/can't ordain until they're old enough</li>
<li>Maybe in a next life -- I think that's the attitude of many lay people; some schools (e.g. Pure Land) maybe write off ordination altogether</li>
<li>When circumstances allow -- some people ordain e.g. after a close member of their family dies, or after some <a href="https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/banking-buddhism-city-london-bhutan-five-lessons-woman-learnt-emma-slade-set-free-a7680931.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">other 'life-changing' event</a></li>
<li>Not too late -- <a href="https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/29011/254">this answer</a> suggests that after age 45 or so is getting to be too late</li>
<li>After a trial period, and consultation with teachers</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-10-07T12:13:36.523Z
2018-10-07T12:13:36.523Z
ChrisW
<p>If you have already gotten <a href="https://thepathofpurification.blogspot.com/2010/04/visuddhimagga-iii-62.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">the qualified teacher</a>, and your trust is strong enough to do everything follow to that teacher. You should ordinate <a href="http://84000.org/tipitaka/pitaka_item/read_rm.php?B=23&amp;A=77&amp;w=Eva%E1%B9%83%20t%C4%ABsu%20vayesu%20asakkonto%20a%C3%B1%C3%B1atarasmi%E1%B9%83pi%20vaye%20pa%E1%B9%87%E1%B8%8Ditapuriso" rel="nofollow noreferrer">as soon as you can</a>. </p>

<p>If you don't know how to prove your teacher, see <a href="https://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/2017/09/how-to-find-right-dhamma-teacher.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">the qualification of buddhist teacher here</a>.</p>

<p>If you choose the right monastery where is most of their monks try to do follow to tipitaka-pali, such as no use money, your ordination will be very easy, then you just have to patient to stop your unwholesome mind and try to attain jhāna and magga.</p>

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2018-10-07T01:47:20.990Z
2018-10-07T11:09:54.213Z
2018-10-07T11:09:54.213Z
Bonn
<p>When you become dispassionate in continuing the lay life or when you get enough confidence that you can successfully fend off the temptations of lay life, it is worth considering ordination. I would suggest staying in a monastery or a meditation center first, continuously for about 6 months while keeping to the 8 precepts to see if you can handle it well.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-10-06T06:50:09.067Z
2018-10-06T07:23:35.233Z
2018-10-06T07:23:35.233Z
Sankha Kulathantille
<p>When exactly is it worth considering to ordain as a monk?
Is it something that happens automatically during the path, that is, (a) special experience(s) or insight into the three characteristics?</p>

<p>Is strong uncomfort experienced when living the monastic life?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-10-05T11:37:43.770Z
I think that in some countries everyone (or every man) ordains but (for most of them) only temporarily.
ChrisW
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-10-05T12:39:33.630Z
As far I know, in some countries people ordain due to societal custom et cetera, but even in ordination  intention is key. If it's some external force that is moving you, it is not necessarily a bad thing and can definitely encourage one to become a monk for life, but usually this is not the case.
Val
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-10-05T13:56:12.590Z
I assumed it was a stage of people's education, and a good opportunity to stay if they choose to.
ChrisW
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2018-10-05T17:16:25.447Z
When you are already observing the precepts there will be no uncomfort living the monastic life.
OyaMist
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2018-10-05T18:03:36.933Z
Which precepts are you referring to?
Val
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-10-07T03:47:25.277Z
in thailand a man ordains for 3 months to make merit for this mother's reincarnation and prepare himself for marriage for a wife. Its for the purpose of two women: wife and mother
Dhamma Dhatu
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-10-07T08:42:52.877Z
While this is not necessarily a bad motivation to ordain DD, I think ordination should preferably always be done because of one's own sake. One has realised that the Dhamma is the way to live by. If one does not enjoy it, or does it merely for the sake of others, it's all shaky. It is never certain that other people will approve of one's deeds (mother and wife in your example)
Val
<monk><ordination><lay-person>
When is the best time for ordination?
# When is the best time for ordination?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-10-05)

When exactly is it worth considering to ordain as a monk?
Is it something that happens automatically during the path, that is, (a) special experience(s) or insight into the three characteristics?

Is strong uncomfort experienced when living the monastic life?

Thanks

**Tags:** monk, ordination, lay-person

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I think that in some countries everyone (or every man) ordains but (for most of them) only temporarily.  
> **username_0**: As far I know, in some countries people ordain due to societal custom et cetera, but even in ordination  intention is key. If it's some external force that is moving you, it is not necessarily a bad thing and can definitely encourage one to become a monk for life, but usually this is not the case.  
> **username_1**: I assumed it was a stage of people's education, and a good opportunity to stay if they choose to.  
> **username_2**: When you are already observing the precepts there will be no uncomfort living the monastic life.  
> **username_0**: Which precepts are you referring to?  
> **username_3**: in thailand a man ordains for 3 months to make merit for this mother's reincarnation and prepare himself for marriage for a wife. Its for the purpose of two women: wife and mother  
> **username_0**: While this is not necessarily a bad motivation to ordain DD, I think ordination should preferably always be done because of one's own sake. One has realised that the Dhamma is the way to live by. If one does not enjoy it, or does it merely for the sake of others, it's all shaky. It is never certain that other people will approve of one's deeds (mother and wife in your example)  

---

## 5 answers

### Answer by username_6 on 2018-10-06. Score: 3

When you become dispassionate in continuing the lay life or when you get enough confidence that you can successfully fend off the temptations of lay life, it is worth considering ordination. I would suggest staying in a monastery or a meditation center first, continuously for about 6 months while keeping to the 8 precepts to see if you can handle it well.


---

### Answer by username_3 on 2018-10-07. Score: 1

The Pali suttas have the following stock phrase about the best time being when you become dispassionate in continuing the lay life:

> *Now, there is the case where a Tathāgata appears in the world, worthy and rightly self-awakened. He teaches the Dhamma admirable in its
> beginning, admirable in its middle, admirable in its end. He proclaims
> the holy life both in its particulars and in its essence, entirely
> perfect, surpassingly pure.*
>
> *He [the person discussed above], hearing the Dhamma, gains conviction in the Tathāgata and reflects: '**Household life is confining, a dusty
> path**. Life gone forth is the open air. It isn't easy, living at
> home, to practice the holy life totally perfect, totally pure, a
> polished shell. What if I, having shaved off my hair & beard and
> putting on the ochre robe, were to go forth from the household life
> into homelessness?'*
>
> *So after some time he abandons his mass of wealth, large or small; leaves his circle of relatives, large or small; shaves off his hair
> and beard, puts on the ochre robes, and goes forth from the household
> life into homelessness.*
>
> *MN 38*

Some men still delight in sex but become monks because they think jhana will give them a better type of orgasmic pleasure. It is doubtful these men can succeed.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Why are you bringing up sex now? It wasn't even mentioned in my question.  
> **username_0**: Imo it is very important to feel pleasant feelings during the path. Whether this is due to Jhana or from somewhere else, positive feelings give rise to conviction in the teaching. It ia very hard to quit sensual pleasures and, at the same time, be in a vacuum, that is, having no alternative pleasure at hand.  
> **username_3**: Not for me. I gave up sex for 18 months because discovering buddhism and meditation. regards  
> **username_1**: @username_0 One reason for bringing it up now might be that ordained monks are supposed to be strictly [celibate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_sexuality#Celibacy_and_monasticism).  
> **username_0**: Yes DD, but during your discovery in dhamma & meditation you had other spiritual pleasures, didn't you?  
> **username_0**: @username_1, I am aware of celibacy, however, DD was referring to men delighting in sex, who then become monks because they BELIEVE (key word here) that jhana  will outpass  sex in terms of pleasure. I'm not disputing this, but experiencing Jhana is one thing, talking about it intellectually and building a belief system is another (in this case those mentioned monks that blindly believe in Jhana this and that). I humbly admit that I haven't experienced it, and personally  see a connection between positive spiritual feelings and continuation on the path/ordination.  
> **username_0**: If the path is painful it's doubtful thar one will continue in it. Similarly, if one gives up sense pleasures and has no spiritual pleasures as an alternative one will probably burn out. Please correct me if I am wrong.  
> **username_1**: @username_0 I see the "purpose" (of the dhamma) as being the "cessation of suffering" (rather than the "arising of pleasure"); and the "method" as being "renunciation and letting go" rather than "pursuit and re-acquisition". Other activity/state/absorption (other than sex) can be experienced as pleasant, however turning around and pursuing such pleasure might be something of a mistake (a mistake analogous to trying to breathe by holding your breath). I'm not saying you're wrong though, perhaps our descriptions are different parts or views (different scales/magnifications) of some similar elephants.  
> **username_1**: As for "burning out" I imagine that the great thing about ordaining is the support of, the social contact with the sangha: "Half the holy life" and so on.  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2018-10-07. Score: 0

*When is the best time for ordination?*

Now. Don't waste time. Intentions are not for sure.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: This is not the word by the Buddha. The Buddha, to my knowledge, never taught to lay people immediately  the 4 NT, instead he gave talks on more feasible topics like generosity, virtue, and the drawbacks of sensuality and the benefit of renunciation. Similarly, going straight for monastic life while still seeing the advantages in lay life will probably only cause problems.  
> **username_4**: This **is** not the word by the Buddha. The Buddha, to **my knowledge**...  
> **username_0**: What are trying to say? Are yoh the person that is trying so hard and who is always saying "my person" instead of "I" ? You know that conventions exist and by doing your approach you just proof that you just bolster the "I" even further?  
> **username_4**: see "Intentions are not for sure", the tiny whole one had to wlak on is already destructed... access for long time cut off...  

---

### Answer by username_1 on 2018-10-07. Score: 0

To try to complement other answers:

* A long time ago -- some schools of Buddhism involve 20-odd years of training and people start as children, though perhaps they don't/can't ordain until they're old enough
* Maybe in a next life -- I think that's the attitude of many lay people; some schools (e.g. Pure Land) maybe write off ordination altogether
* When circumstances allow -- some people ordain e.g. after a close member of their family dies, or after some [other 'life-changing' event](https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/banking-buddhism-city-london-bhutan-five-lessons-woman-learnt-emma-slade-set-free-a7680931.html)
* Not too late -- [this answer](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/29011/254) suggests that after age 45 or so is getting to be too late
* After a trial period, and consultation with teachers


---

### Answer by username_5 on 2018-10-07. Score: 0

If you have already gotten [the qualified teacher](https://thepathofpurification.blogspot.com/2010/04/visuddhimagga-iii-62.html), and your trust is strong enough to do everything follow to that teacher. You should ordinate [as soon as you can](http://84000.org/tipitaka/pitaka_item/read_rm.php?B=23&A=77&w=Eva%E1%B9%83%20t%C4%ABsu%20vayesu%20asakkonto%20a%C3%B1%C3%B1atarasmi%E1%B9%83pi%20vaye%20pa%E1%B9%87%E1%B8%8Ditapuriso).

If you don't know how to prove your teacher, see [the qualification of buddhist teacher here](https://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/2017/09/how-to-find-right-dhamma-teacher.html).

If you choose the right monastery where is most of their monks try to do follow to tipitaka-pali, such as no use money, your ordination will be very easy, then you just have to patient to stop your unwholesome mind and try to attain jhāna and magga.


---

