<blockquote>
<p>Without normal perception or distorted perception;</p>
<p>Na saññasaññī na <strong>visañña</strong>saññī,</p>
<p>not lacking perception, nor perceiving what has disappeared.</p>
<p>Nopi asaññī na vibhūtasaññī;</p>
<p><strong>Form</strong> disappears for one proceeding thus;</p>
<p>Evaṁ sametassa vibhoti rūpaṁ,</p>
<p>for judgements due to proliferation spring from perception.</p>
<p>Saññānidānā hi <strong>papañca<a href="https://suttacentral.net/define/sa%E1%B9%85kh%C4%81?lang=en" rel="nofollow noreferrer">saṅkhā</a></strong></p>
<p><a href="https://suttacentral.net/snp4.11/en/sujato?lang=en&amp;layout=linebyline&amp;reference=none&amp;notes=asterisk&amp;highlight=true&amp;script=latin" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Snp 4.11</a></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p><strong>Visaññī</strong> is used of one whose perception is distorted by grief (Thig
6.2:1.2), by alcohol (Bu Pc 51:1.40), or by the four “distortions of perception” (AN 4.49:3.5). Saññasaññī is the opposite.</p>
<p>This verse answers the question of how one is to practice so that <strong>form</strong> disappears. It describes the process that leads
from the fourth jhana to the formless states.</p>
<p>In MN 18, we have the sequence perception, thought, proliferation,
then <strong>papañcasaññāsaṅkhā</strong>. This suggests that papañca causes saṅkhā, as
per Bodhi.</p>
<p><a href="https://suttacentral.net/snp4.11/en/sujato?lang=en&amp;layout=linebyline&amp;reference=none&amp;notes=sidenotes&amp;highlight=true&amp;script=latin" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Sujato's notes</a></p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-05T00:19:32.267Z
...not what has disappeared, that's the clinging of perception, hmm, do i do that?
blue_ego
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-16T23:34:01.417Z
2024-05-16T23:45:53.807Z
2024-05-16T23:45:53.807Z
Dhamma Dhatu
<p>From a book called <em>Pruning the Bodhi Tree</em> the author writes in the <a href="https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/index.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Suttanipata</a> (oldest Pali discourses?) the following is replied by Sakyamuni:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Without ordinary perception (conception), without mistaken perception,
not without perception, and not with the extinction of perception -
one who practices in this way will extinguish form. A mistaken
consciousness of the world arises from conception.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I was hoping to find it, but wasn't found.  Any help?</p>

<sutras><sutta-reference>
Does Sutta Nipata say this quote?
# Does Sutta Nipata say this quote?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-05-16)

From a book called *Pruning the Bodhi Tree* the author writes in the [Suttanipata](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/snp/index.html) (oldest Pali discourses?) the following is replied by Sakyamuni:

> Without ordinary perception (conception), without mistaken perception,
> not without perception, and not with the extinction of perception -
> one who practices in this way will extinguish form. A mistaken
> consciousness of the world arises from conception.

I was hoping to find it, but wasn't found. Any help?

**Tags:** sutras, sutta-reference


---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2024-05-16. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

> Without normal perception or distorted perception;
>
> Na saññasaññī na **visañña**saññī,
>
> not lacking perception, nor perceiving what has disappeared.
>
> Nopi asaññī na vibhūtasaññī;
>
> **Form** disappears for one proceeding thus;
>
> Evaṁ sametassa vibhoti rūpaṁ,
>
> for judgements due to proliferation spring from perception.
>
> Saññānidānā hi **papañca[saṅkhā](https://suttacentral.net/define/sa%E1%B9%85kh%C4%81?lang=en)**
>
> [Snp 4.11](https://suttacentral.net/snp4.11/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=linebyline&reference=none¬es=asterisk&highlight=true&script=latin)

> **Visaññī** is used of one whose perception is distorted by grief (Thig
> 6.2:1.2), by alcohol (Bu Pc 51:1.40), or by the four “distortions of perception” (AN 4.49:3.5). Saññasaññī is the opposite.
>
> This verse answers the question of how one is to practice so that **form** disappears. It describes the process that leads
> from the fourth jhana to the formless states.
>
> In MN 18, we have the sequence perception, thought, proliferation,
> then **papañcasaññāsaṅkhā**. This suggests that papañca causes saṅkhā, as
> per Bodhi.
>
> [Sujato's notes](https://suttacentral.net/snp4.11/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=linebyline&reference=none¬es=sidenotes&highlight=true&script=latin)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: ...not what has disappeared, that's the clinging of perception, hmm, do i do that?  

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