<ol>
<li><p>Citta can arise everywhere inside the physical body because there are the body-senses, kāya-āyatana, in the whole body. However, it's just the automatic thought can arise at the physical body, no one can develop or practice anything at that sense.</p>

<p>It's not important that Citta arises at Hadaya-Vatthu-Rupa because in Abhidhamma said: "Hadaya-Vatthu-Rupa is not <a href="http://mahajana.net/en/library/texts/the-patthanuddesa-dipani#Indriya" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Inḍriya-Paccaya</a>" and "Arūpa-brahma has citta <a href="https://thaipitaka.gitlab.io/sangaha/chapter_5.htm?#8-322" rel="nofollow noreferrer">but Hadaya-Vatthu-Rupa</a>". However, thoughts arise at Hadaya-Vatthu-Rupa normally.</p>

<p>The factory-manager, Citta, can go everywhere in the factory, but the factory control center, the brain, is in the manufacturing room, head, only. The factory-manager must go to the sense doors to receive a new input, outside āyatana, of the machine, and the factory-manager can control the whole factory from everywhere in the factory. However, the office room, Hadaya-Vatthu-Rupa, is the best place for him to think and control the factory. And many control-command are processed at the brain.</p></li>
<li><p>It's not only Hadaya-Vatthu which originating Citta, actually, Cetasikas are originating Citta as well. </p>

<p>Mostly, we meditate Jhāna to see Nāma and Rūpa, before we talk about it in detail.</p></li>
</ol>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-07T03:37:17.613Z
Thanks sir! I really like the analogy of factory manager and factory you've used to explain. I'd be thankful if you can give an answer for my second question also.
Damith
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-04T14:10:41.517Z
2019-01-04T14:10:41.517Z
Bonn
<p>Conciseness build up in your mind. It’s an energy not physical brain</p>

<p>It can be divided din to 3
Raga -  All the attachments come in many forms
Dwesha – All the heartfulness’s  comes in many forms
Mooha – Confusion this will create within you because of Raga and Dwesha or Raga and Dwesha can be generated  because of Mooha. Works both ways</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-07T03:32:27.437Z
2019-01-07T03:32:27.437Z
Rohan
<p>Space is a derived quality of matter, so consciousness cannot be said to take up or exist in space. To say that the mind arises here or there is not really proper in an ultimate sense. Consciousness can arise based on physical entities, and hadaya vatthu is the base for both the mind element and mind consciousness element. This doesn't mean that consciousness arises <em>in</em> the hadaya vatthu.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>According to the Pali commentators, the heart serves as the physical support for all cittas other than the two sets of fivefold sense consciousness, which take their respective sensitivities
  as their bases. In the canonical Abhidhamma the heart-base is not expressly mentioned. The Patthāna, the last book of the Abhidhamma Pitaka, simply speaks of “that matter in dependence on which the mind element and mind-consciousness element occur”. The Commentaries, however, subsequently specify “that matter” to be the heart-base, a cavity situated within the physical heart. (Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma 144–5 , Bodhi et al)</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-05T19:44:34.370Z
2019-01-05T19:44:34.370Z
yuttadhammo
<p>I have heard that all consciousness arise in hadaya vatthu rupa (blood inside the heart) except the five doors perceiving consciousness (Cakku vinnana, Sota vinnana, Ghana vinnana, Jeevha vinnana, Kaya vinnana).</p>

<p>There are some research articles on the internet about the impact on the heart due to brain damage. So one can argue that the brain is merely an organ which supports the functionality of other organs and hadaya vatthu rupa is the place where consciousness originate. Another one can argue the other way around.</p>

<p>So my questions are:    </p>

<ol>
<li>Where does the consciousness (cittas) originate inside the body? Is it in the brain or hadaya vatthu rupa?</li>
<li>Consciousness is nāma (not material/formless). Then how can we talk about a place of origination of it?</li>
</ol>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-05T07:53:51.417Z
Consciousness still remains when the heart is replaced with an artificial one.
vajra78
<consciousness><abhidhamma>
Where does the consciousness (cittas) originate inside the body?
# Where does the consciousness (cittas) originate inside the body?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-01-04)

I have heard that all consciousness arise in hadaya vatthu rupa (blood inside the heart) except the five doors perceiving consciousness (Cakku vinnana, Sota vinnana, Ghana vinnana, Jeevha vinnana, Kaya vinnana).

There are some research articles on the internet about the impact on the heart due to brain damage. So one can argue that the brain is merely an organ which supports the functionality of other organs and hadaya vatthu rupa is the place where consciousness originate. Another one can argue the other way around.

So my questions are:

1. Where does the consciousness (cittas) originate inside the body? Is it in the brain or hadaya vatthu rupa?
2. Consciousness is nāma (not material/formless). Then how can we talk about a place of origination of it?

**Tags:** consciousness, abhidhamma

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Consciousness still remains when the heart is replaced with an artificial one.  

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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2019-01-05. Score: 5 | Accepted answer

Space is a derived quality of matter, so consciousness cannot be said to take up or exist in space. To say that the mind arises here or there is not really proper in an ultimate sense. Consciousness can arise based on physical entities, and hadaya vatthu is the base for both the mind element and mind consciousness element. This doesn't mean that consciousness arises *in* the hadaya vatthu.

> According to the Pali commentators, the heart serves as the physical support for all cittas other than the two sets of fivefold sense consciousness, which take their respective sensitivities
> as their bases. In the canonical Abhidhamma the heart-base is not expressly mentioned. The Patthāna, the last book of the Abhidhamma Pitaka, simply speaks of “that matter in dependence on which the mind element and mind-consciousness element occur”. The Commentaries, however, subsequently specify “that matter” to be the heart-base, a cavity situated within the physical heart. (Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma 144–5 , Bodhi et al)


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### Answer by username_2 on 2019-01-04. Score: 1

1. Citta can arise everywhere inside the physical body because there are the body-senses, kāya-āyatana, in the whole body. However, it's just the automatic thought can arise at the physical body, no one can develop or practice anything at that sense.

   It's not important that Citta arises at Hadaya-Vatthu-Rupa because in Abhidhamma said: "Hadaya-Vatthu-Rupa is not [Inḍriya-Paccaya](http://mahajana.net/en/library/texts/the-patthanuddesa-dipani#Indriya)" and "Arūpa-brahma has citta [but Hadaya-Vatthu-Rupa](https://thaipitaka.gitlab.io/sangaha/chapter_5.htm?#8-322)". However, thoughts arise at Hadaya-Vatthu-Rupa normally.

   The factory-manager, Citta, can go everywhere in the factory, but the factory control center, the brain, is in the manufacturing room, head, only. The factory-manager must go to the sense doors to receive a new input, outside āyatana, of the machine, and the factory-manager can control the whole factory from everywhere in the factory. However, the office room, Hadaya-Vatthu-Rupa, is the best place for him to think and control the factory. And many control-command are processed at the brain.
2. It's not only Hadaya-Vatthu which originating Citta, actually, Cetasikas are originating Citta as well.

   Mostly, we meditate Jhāna to see Nāma and Rūpa, before we talk about it in detail.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks sir! I really like the analogy of factory manager and factory you've used to explain. I'd be thankful if you can give an answer for my second question also.  

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### Answer by username_3 on 2019-01-07. Score: 0

Conciseness build up in your mind. It’s an energy not physical brain

It can be divided din to 3
Raga - All the attachments come in many forms
Dwesha – All the heartfulness’s comes in many forms
Mooha – Confusion this will create within you because of Raga and Dwesha or Raga and Dwesha can be generated because of Mooha. Works both ways


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