<p>When there is ignorance-touch (<a href="http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/dictionary/avijj%C4%81" rel="nofollow noreferrer">avijjā</a>-<a href="http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/dictionary/phassa" rel="nofollow noreferrer">phassa</a>) the effect becomes cause and <a href="http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/dictionary/samsara" rel="nofollow noreferrer">wandering-on</a> get's on. When there is no avijjā-phassa the effect ends right there, here and now.</p>

<p><em>[Note: this is a <a href="http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/dhamma-dana" rel="nofollow noreferrer">gift of Dhamma</a>, not thought for trade, stakes, exchanges or other gains subject toward decay and should be deleted if it's not giften to give in Dhammic conditions]</em></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-11-16T06:50:35.703Z
2018-11-16T06:50:35.703Z
Samana Johann
<p>Only some effects cause it cause, such as sahajāta-cause, aññamañña-cause, nissaya-cause, etc., but some can not, such as pakatūpanissaya-cause, anantara-cause, etc.</p>

<p>See <a href="https://thaipitaka.gitlab.io/sangaha/chapter_8.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer">saṅghaha chapter 8</a>.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-11-13T07:42:47.263Z
2018-11-13T07:42:47.263Z
Bonn
<p>The cause is not dependant on the effect. The effect is dependant on the cause. The concept of Śūnyatā does not mean nothingness. It just means being empty of a self and being empty of satisfaction and being empty of permanence or stability. </p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-11-13T06:19:17.957Z
2018-11-13T06:19:17.957Z
Sankha Kulathantille
<p>Does a cause depend on its effect? If so then it seems especially difficult to think about nothingness being made or created.</p>

<p>This is almost the exact opposite of a question I have <a href="https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/21744/has-anyone-read-nagarjuna-as-claiming-only-that-an-effect-is-never-its-cause">asked</a> recently (I'm locked out and looking into that), but not quite.</p>

<p>It's usually said that the cause does depend on the cause, in some way</p>

<blockquote>
  <p><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nagarjuna/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Nāgārjuna argues</a> that cause and effect cannot be substantially
  distinct. This is because the effect depends existentially on the
  cause (if the cause did not exist the effect would not exist) and
  cause depends at least notionally on the effect (if there was no
  effect the cause would not be called “cause”). The kind of
  independence demanded by substantial existence, by existence by
  svabhāva, is simply not available for things which are cause and
  effect.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>But what this notional dependence means I'm not totally sure.</p>

<p>I'm not asking about nothingness, and am not saying that sunyata is nothingness! That could only be the case if the absolute truth is that nothing exists.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-11-13T08:05:41.133Z
This ("confused") account is "unregistered", meaning that stack exchange sent an email to your email address but you haven't yet replied to that email (if you don't register the account then access is based on a cookie which doesn't work if you use multiple devices). The "confused" account and the "user3293056" account are associated with two different email addresses (i.e. you used a different email address and/or different type of login for the "user3293056" account).
ChrisW
<causes>
Does the effect make its cause?
# Does the effect make its cause?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-11-13)

Does a cause depend on its effect? If so then it seems especially difficult to think about nothingness being made or created.

This is almost the exact opposite of a question I have [asked](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/21744/has-anyone-read-nagarjuna-as-claiming-only-that-an-effect-is-never-its-cause) recently (I'm locked out and looking into that), but not quite.

It's usually said that the cause does depend on the cause, in some way

> [Nāgārjuna argues](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nagarjuna/) that cause and effect cannot be substantially
> distinct. This is because the effect depends existentially on the
> cause (if the cause did not exist the effect would not exist) and
> cause depends at least notionally on the effect (if there was no
> effect the cause would not be called “cause”). The kind of
> independence demanded by substantial existence, by existence by
> svabhāva, is simply not available for things which are cause and
> effect.

But what this notional dependence means I'm not totally sure.

I'm not asking about nothingness, and am not saying that sunyata is nothingness! That could only be the case if the absolute truth is that nothing exists.

**Tags:** causes

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: This ("username_0") account is "unregistered", meaning that stack exchange sent an email to your email address but you haven't yet replied to that email (if you don't register the account then access is based on a cookie which doesn't work if you use multiple devices). The "username_0" account and the "user3293056" account are associated with two different email addresses (i.e. you used a different email address and/or different type of login for the "user3293056" account).  

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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2018-11-13. Score: 2

The cause is not dependant on the effect. The effect is dependant on the cause. The concept of Śūnyatā does not mean nothingness. It just means being empty of a self and being empty of satisfaction and being empty of permanence or stability.


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### Answer by username_2 on 2018-11-16. Score: 0

When there is ignorance-touch ([avijjā](http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/dictionary/avijj%C4%81)-[phassa](http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/dictionary/phassa)) the effect becomes cause and [wandering-on](http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/dictionary/samsara) get's on. When there is no avijjā-phassa the effect ends right there, here and now.

*[Note: this is a [gift of Dhamma](http://accesstoinsight.eu/en/dhamma-dana), not thought for trade, stakes, exchanges or other gains subject toward decay and should be deleted if it's not giften to give in Dhammic conditions]*


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### Answer by username_3 on 2018-11-13. Score: 0

Only some effects cause it cause, such as sahajāta-cause, aññamañña-cause, nissaya-cause, etc., but some can not, such as pakatūpanissaya-cause, anantara-cause, etc.

See [saṅghaha chapter 8](https://thaipitaka.gitlab.io/sangaha/chapter_8.htm).


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