<p>Wat Doi Suthep has 'normal' beds, hot showers as well. </p>

<p>fivethousandyears.org</p>

<p>Two years ago I stayed at the monk side of Wat Chomtong. The bed was a high one. The shower was private but cold.</p>

<p>northernvipassana.org/en/</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/lEl3O.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/lEl3O.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p>Last year I stayed at the tourist side of Wat Chomtong; the matras was thinner, the shower shared but hot. </p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/Ls9DZ.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/Ls9DZ.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-07-05T21:33:20.040Z
Thank you for this information. These ones look much better
Arturia
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-07-05T20:50:37.600Z
2017-07-05T20:50:37.600Z
Gert Jan
<p>"I can't even sleep properly in my luxurious queen size bed with pillow top mattress most nights."</p>

<p>"*****"</p>

<p>Here is the answer to your question. Sleep is nothing to with the luxury.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-07-02T05:28:08.117Z
That's your perception. Not necessarily the actual truth or reality.
Arturia
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-07-02T01:09:45.943Z
2017-07-02T01:24:29.973Z
2017-07-02T01:24:29.973Z
SarathW
<p>Calling it "torture" and a "concentration camp" is obviously an exaggeration; and I read the Buddha's "not believing in <em>asceticism</em>" as meaning that people need enough <em>food</em>.</p>

<p>There might be something to say about the <a href="http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sila/atthasila.html" rel="noreferrer">eighth precept</a> (but I don't know what):</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Perhaps your apparent astonishment is a matter of what you've been accustomed to. Dhammadattu's photographs remind me of a boarding school, army barrack, boy scout camp, youth hostel, and/or camping ground. The dormitory he showed looks to me more "luxurious" than camping (sleeping) in a tent is, which lots of people do (or did) just for a holiday; and a flush toilet is preferable to a "pit latrine".</p>

<p>If you're not used to it (from your past experiences) perhaps that's why it's surprising to you?</p>

<p>Maybe an analogy is sitting in the "lotus" position: that it's not a problem for people who are used to it. I don't think I can reach the "lotus" position, but sleep on a wood (or straw) surface is feasible.</p>

<p>As for "why would they make people sleep like that", apart from any Dharma-related (or health-related) reasons I expect it's practical: cheap, sufficient, no bed-bugs or mice, no linen to launder.</p>

<p>On <a href="https://diaryofapilgrim.com/2013/04/08/wat-suan-mok/" rel="noreferrer">this page</a>, as Dhammadattu said, someone commented that they brought their own bedding, including a foamy mattress which they bought at a local market.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-07-01T12:33:26.363Z
2017-07-01T12:33:26.363Z
ChrisW
<p>Google earth of meditation centre </p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/ip0sL.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/ip0sL.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/fW9yW.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/fW9yW.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p>They also provide a piece of 'masonite' wood over the concrete bed.</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/i9SLu.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/i9SLu.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p>You can take your own camping mattress &amp; pillow. </p>

<p>Since the retreat is catering mostly for backpackers, people turn up with their backpacks &amp; whatever they are carrying in them, which they take into their room.</p>

<p>They don't have '<em>dhamma police</em>' checking for camping mattresses the rooms. </p>

<p>As for taking a bath, it is outdoor, communal, cold water, using a dish. </p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/Cp3iZ.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/Cp3iZ.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p>As for toilets, generally squat (unless you can find a sit down, somewhere). </p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/UYa8W.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/UYa8W.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/6J8ii.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/6J8ii.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p>In the good old days, we all piled into these old wooden dorms, sleep on the floor &amp; use this old toilet in the forest. At least recently there is an individual wooden bed.</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/9Yi32.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/9Yi32.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/FfeGW.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/FfeGW.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p>This old toilet location is circled in red, below. One of the most beautiful toilet in the world.</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/x608A.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/x608A.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p>Better view:</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/dXwV8.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/dXwV8.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p>Meditate with the white Buddha.</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/cdFqR.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/cdFqR.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/txRb2.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/txRb2.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-07-01T06:25:58.737Z
Far out!  Looks more like a concentration camp. I won't be going.  I don't see the point of puttin myself through such tough conditions like that when it's not neccessary.  Some people might say it's good practice to learn how to be with difficult feelings but I'm a fan of the belief that if your not feeling difficult feelings then no need to try and evoke them. They are going to arise sooner or later anyway.   How do you bathe in that thing? Looks like a septic tank.  Fully clothed in order to maintain modesty?   Ugh   Yep there are better ways to journey toward enlightenment.
Arturia
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-07-01T06:28:56.147Z
Omg that sign outside the toilet is hysterical.  I wonder if they realise how funny it is
Arturia
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-07-01T06:53:49.887Z
You use the plastic dipper to splash the body with water. Then soap up. The splash off, with the plastic dipper. "Tough?". Lol. Its is easy.
Dhamma Dhatu
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-07-01T09:42:46.310Z
That is a good one @Dhammadhatu.  And I am not saying it in a rude way or a funny way. For others it may be a bit of a laugh, or a rude awakening, but I see it as a great answer, a great post.
Saptha Visuddhi
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-07-01T18:47:57.433Z
Thank you so much for this answer. It makes me truly appreciate the amenities I have around me. I am living like a King!

It actually makes me feel warm inside to see these accommodations. When you have stripped everything else away then you are the closest you will ever be to your true self. I try to rid myself of things and shed layers daily and I still feel almost opulent by comparison.

To ME Dhammadhatu's example is exactly how a retreat should be. Of course I may see one that overwhelms me with its' luxuriousness and think the same. But this example is MUCH appreciated! Thank you.
Kauvasara
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-06-30T23:56:31.480Z
2017-07-01T11:08:28.640Z
2017-07-01T11:08:28.640Z
Dhamma Dhatu
<p>I was thinking about going to a retreat in thailand called suanmok and then I saw the picture of the bed. A straw mat and a tiny wooden pillow!!! why would they make people sleep like that?  It seems like torture to me and so I decided not to go. If the Buddha didn't believe in asceticism why do some monasteries and retreat centres?   At the very least I need to sleep comfortably when on retreat. I would just end up sleep deprived and grumpy and not be able to meditate properly anyway. I can't even sleep properly in my luxurious queen size bed with pillow top mattress most nights. Does anyone know of a more comfortable retreat?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-06-30T23:23:22.173Z
damyata ... datta ... dayadhvam
Kauvasara
<retreat>
Uncomfortable sleeping conditions on retreat
# Uncomfortable sleeping conditions on retreat

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-06-30)

I was thinking about going to a retreat in thailand called suanmok and then I saw the picture of the bed. A straw mat and a tiny wooden pillow!!! why would they make people sleep like that? It seems like torture to me and so I decided not to go. If the Buddha didn't believe in asceticism why do some monasteries and retreat centres? At the very least I need to sleep comfortably when on retreat. I would just end up sleep deprived and grumpy and not be able to meditate properly anyway. I can't even sleep properly in my luxurious queen size bed with pillow top mattress most nights. Does anyone know of a more comfortable retreat?

**Tags:** retreat

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: damyata ... datta ... dayadhvam  

---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_5 on 2017-06-30. Score: 7

Google earth of meditation centre

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/ip0sL.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/ip0sL.jpg)

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/fW9yW.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/fW9yW.jpg)

They also provide a piece of 'masonite' wood over the concrete bed.

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/i9SLu.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/i9SLu.jpg)

You can take your own camping mattress & pillow.

Since the retreat is catering mostly for backpackers, people turn up with their backpacks & whatever they are carrying in them, which they take into their room.

They don't have '*dhamma police*' checking for camping mattresses the rooms.

As for taking a bath, it is outdoor, communal, cold water, using a dish.

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/Cp3iZ.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/Cp3iZ.jpg)

As for toilets, generally squat (unless you can find a sit down, somewhere).

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/UYa8W.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/UYa8W.jpg)

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/6J8ii.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/6J8ii.jpg)

In the good old days, we all piled into these old wooden dorms, sleep on the floor & use this old toilet in the forest. At least recently there is an individual wooden bed.

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/9Yi32.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/9Yi32.jpg)

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/FfeGW.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/FfeGW.jpg)

This old toilet location is circled in red, below. One of the most beautiful toilet in the world.

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/x608A.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/x608A.jpg)

Better view:

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/dXwV8.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/dXwV8.jpg)

Meditate with the white Buddha.

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/cdFqR.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/cdFqR.jpg)

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/txRb2.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/txRb2.jpg)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Far out!  Looks more like a concentration camp. I won't be going.  I don't see the point of puttin myself through such tough conditions like that when it's not neccessary.  Some people might say it's good practice to learn how to be with difficult feelings but I'm a fan of the belief that if your not feeling difficult feelings then no need to try and evoke them. They are going to arise sooner or later anyway.   How do you bathe in that thing? Looks like a septic tank.  Fully clothed in order to maintain modesty?   Ugh   Yep there are better ways to journey toward enlightenment.  
> **username_0**: Omg that sign outside the toilet is hysterical.  I wonder if they realise how funny it is  
> **username_5**: You use the plastic dipper to splash the body with water. Then soap up. The splash off, with the plastic dipper. "Tough?". Lol. Its is easy.  
> **username_6**: That is a good one @Dhammadhatu.  And I am not saying it in a rude way or a funny way. For others it may be a bit of a laugh, or a rude awakening, but I see it as a great answer, a great post.  
> **username_1**: Thank you so much for this answer. It makes me truly appreciate the amenities I have around me. I am living like a King!  It actually makes me feel warm inside to see these accommodations. When you have stripped everything else away then you are the closest you will ever be to your true self. I try to rid myself of things and shed layers daily and I still feel almost opulent by comparison.  To ME Dhammadhatu's example is exactly how a retreat should be. Of course I may see one that overwhelms me with its' luxuriousness and think the same. But this example is MUCH appreciated! Thank you.  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2017-07-01. Score: 6

Calling it "torture" and a "concentration camp" is obviously an exaggeration; and I read the Buddha's "not believing in *asceticism*" as meaning that people need enough *food*.

There might be something to say about the [eighth precept](http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sila/atthasila.html) (but I don't know what):

> I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.

Perhaps your apparent astonishment is a matter of what you've been accustomed to. Dhammadattu's photographs remind me of a boarding school, army barrack, boy scout camp, youth hostel, and/or camping ground. The dormitory he showed looks to me more "luxurious" than camping (sleeping) in a tent is, which lots of people do (or did) just for a holiday; and a flush toilet is preferable to a "pit latrine".

If you're not used to it (from your past experiences) perhaps that's why it's surprising to you?

Maybe an analogy is sitting in the "lotus" position: that it's not a problem for people who are used to it. I don't think I can reach the "lotus" position, but sleep on a wood (or straw) surface is feasible.

As for "why would they make people sleep like that", apart from any Dharma-related (or health-related) reasons I expect it's practical: cheap, sufficient, no bed-bugs or mice, no linen to launder.

On [this page](https://diaryofapilgrim.com/2013/04/08/wat-suan-mok/), as Dhammadattu said, someone commented that they brought their own bedding, including a foamy mattress which they bought at a local market.


---

### Answer by username_2 on 2017-07-05. Score: 3

Wat Doi Suthep has 'normal' beds, hot showers as well.

fivethousandyears.org

Two years ago I stayed at the monk side of Wat Chomtong. The bed was a high one. The shower was private but cold.

northernvipassana.org/en/

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/lEl3O.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/lEl3O.jpg)

Last year I stayed at the tourist side of Wat Chomtong; the matras was thinner, the shower shared but hot.

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/Ls9DZ.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/Ls9DZ.jpg)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thank you for this information. These ones look much better  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2017-07-02. Score: 3

"I can't even sleep properly in my luxurious queen size bed with pillow top mattress most nights."

"\*\*\*\*\*"

Here is the answer to your question. Sleep is nothing to with the luxury.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: That's your perception. Not necessarily the actual truth or reality.  

---

