<p>If you want an <em>abhidhamma</em> answer, you have to speak in <em>abhidhamma</em> terms. &quot;Wishing for pain to go away&quot; is a <em>sutta</em> statement. It involves a wisher, and describes a <em>sutta</em> action.</p>
<p><em>lobha</em> and <em>dosa</em> cannot arise in the same <em>citta</em>, certainly. They are mutually exclusive <em>cetasika</em> that arise in the <em>javana</em> <em>cittas</em> of the process of a single experience, and all of the <em>javanas</em> in any given thought process are said to be the same, since they arise from the same <em>votthapana citta</em>.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Only one type of citta runs for all seven occasions of the javana process.</p>
<p><em>-- Bhikkhu Bodhi, Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma, p. 157</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>One act - of wishing for pain to go away, for example - may contain many such processes, each one with <em>javana</em> of different makeup.  So, in wishing for pain to go away, there are probably multiple consecutive <em>lobha</em>, <em>dosa</em>, and <em>moha</em> <em>cittas</em> - though all unwholesome <em>cittas</em> contain <em>moha</em>.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-10-08T22:07:16.847Z
Corresponding Wikipedia articles to help me translate what you said are [lobha (desire)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raga_(Buddhism)), [dosa (aversion)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvesha_(Buddhism)), [citta (heart/mind or mindset)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citta), [moha (ignorance)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moha_(Buddhism)), [javana](http://slbuddhists.org/inanutshell/kamma.html).
ChrisW
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2014-10-09T03:04:39.097Z
@ChrisW I guess the thought was that anyone who could understand an answer from the abhidhamma will at the very, very least be familiar with the terminology. To explain them all (and the mind process itself) is beyond the scope of this question.
yuttadhammo
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2014-10-09T04:13:33.763Z
ven. @yuttadhammo, thank you for the answer Bhante! So the 17 thought moments in a single experience of which 7 are Javana cittas can only have either aversion or craving? But not both? I'm familiar with the terms 'Sassankarika', 'Asankarika', 'Somanassa', 'Domanassa', "Patiga Samprayukta" etc.
Sankha Kulathantille
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2014-10-09T10:59:20.107Z
Thank you. I didn't expect you to change what you're saying (presumably Sankha understood you), and I didn't edit your answer to include those hyperlinks inline. I posted them to help me study, to help me towards understanding it; like some 'commentary'.
ChrisW
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-10-09T12:53:50.437Z
@SankhaKulathantille yes, as Bhikkhu Bodhi says, "Only one type of citta runs for all seven occasions of the javana process". (Comp. Manual of Abhi., pg 157)
yuttadhammo
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-10-08T20:54:14.470Z
2014-10-09T13:32:08.047Z
2020-06-17T09:56:10.877Z
yuttadhammo
<p>Is wishing for a pain to go away an instance of aversion(Dosa) or an instance of craving(Lobha)? Or both working in tandem? </p>

<p>ex: leg pain while doing sitting meditation.</p>

<p>Aversion is obvious, if the pain becomes unpleasant. But there is also the wanting for it to disappear(<a href="http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/vibhava-tanha/index.html">Vibhava Tanha</a>) or the desire for the non painful state.</p>

<p>An Abhidhamma answer would be much appreciated.</p>

<abhidhamma><tanha>
Could Lobha(craving) and Dosa(aversion) be working in tandem?
# Could Lobha(craving) and Dosa(aversion) be working in tandem?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-10-08)

Is wishing for a pain to go away an instance of aversion(Dosa) or an instance of craving(Lobha)? Or both working in tandem?

ex: leg pain while doing sitting meditation.

Aversion is obvious, if the pain becomes unpleasant. But there is also the wanting for it to disappear([Vibhava Tanha](http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/vibhava-tanha/index.html)) or the desire for the non painful state.

An Abhidhamma answer would be much appreciated.

**Tags:** abhidhamma, tanha


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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2014-10-08. Score: 8 | Accepted answer

If you want an *abhidhamma* answer, you have to speak in *abhidhamma* terms. "Wishing for pain to go away" is a *sutta* statement. It involves a wisher, and describes a *sutta* action.

*lobha* and *dosa* cannot arise in the same *citta*, certainly. They are mutually exclusive *cetasika* that arise in the *javana* *cittas* of the process of a single experience, and all of the *javanas* in any given thought process are said to be the same, since they arise from the same *votthapana citta*.

> Only one type of citta runs for all seven occasions of the javana process.
>
> *-- Bhikkhu Bodhi, Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma, p. 157*

One act - of wishing for pain to go away, for example - may contain many such processes, each one with *javana* of different makeup. So, in wishing for pain to go away, there are probably multiple consecutive *lobha*, *dosa*, and *moha* *cittas* - though all unwholesome *cittas* contain *moha*.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: Corresponding Wikipedia articles to help me translate what you said are [lobha (desire)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raga_(Buddhism)), [dosa (aversion)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvesha_(Buddhism)), [citta (heart/mind or mindset)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citta), [moha (ignorance)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moha_(Buddhism)), [javana](http://slbuddhists.org/inanutshell/kamma.html).  
> **username_1**: @username_2 I guess the thought was that anyone who could understand an answer from the abhidhamma will at the very, very least be familiar with the terminology. To explain them all (and the mind process itself) is beyond the scope of this question.  
> **username_0**: ven. @username_1, thank you for the answer Bhante! So the 17 thought moments in a single experience of which 7 are Javana cittas can only have either aversion or craving? But not both? I'm familiar with the terms 'Sassankarika', 'Asankarika', 'Somanassa', 'Domanassa', "Patiga Samprayukta" etc.  
> **username_2**: Thank you. I didn't expect you to change what you're saying (presumably Sankha understood you), and I didn't edit your answer to include those hyperlinks inline. I posted them to help me study, to help me towards understanding it; like some 'commentary'.  
> **username_1**: @SankhaKulathantille yes, as Bhikkhu Bodhi says, "Only one type of citta runs for all seven occasions of the javana process". (Comp. Manual of Abhi., pg 157)  

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