<p>I don't know if the word "dependent" is 100% correct.  I would say suffering is the supporting condition for cessation. </p>

<p>From  <a href="http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.023x.wlsh.html" rel="nofollow">Upanisaa Sutta</a> </p>

<ul>
<li>suffering is the support condition for faith</li>
<li>faith is the support condition for joy</li>
<li>joy is the support condition for delight</li>
<li>delight is the support condition for tranquillity </li>
<li>tranquillity is the support condition for happiness</li>
<li>happiness is the support condition for concentration</li>
<li>concentration is the support condition for for knowledge and wisdom for things as they are</li>
<li>knowledge and wisdom for things as they are is the support condition for disenchantment</li>
<li>disenchantment is the support condition for dispassion</li>
<li>dispassion is the support condition for liberation (another word Buddha used for Nirodha or nibbana)</li>
</ul>

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2015-11-02T20:01:10.860Z
Lady Patacara,an arahat in Buddha's time, she was suffered a great deal when her  family was killed.  This is a classic example of suffering is the supporting condition for Nirodha  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patacara IMO human has just enough suffering (compare to none in heaven and tons in hell) to have faith (or Saddhaa)
sargon
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2015-11-02T20:03:27.853Z
+1 good point, forgot about this!
Andriy Volkov
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2015-11-03T21:15:23.067Z
How does your "support condition" comapre to [Theravada's](http://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/12380/461) "connection"? BTW: By "dependent" you're referring to the quality of the dharma, right?
draks ...
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2015-11-02T19:53:27.983Z
2015-11-02T19:53:27.983Z
sargon
<p>Although <em>nirodha</em> is usually translated "cessation", its main meaning is "restraint", "prevention" - e.g. of crime or any undesired activity/outcome. In modern Hindi, nirodh is even used as a word for condom.</p>

<p>If you really think about it, this makes sense. The way cessation of dukkha is achieved is through non-attachment - i.e. non-creation of conditions that make arising of <code>dukkha</code> possible. In other words, non-attachment is <em>prevention</em> of <code>dukkha</code>.</p>

<p>Prevention of X does not depend on existence of X.</p>

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2015-11-02T01:35:29.803Z
2015-11-02T16:34:14.667Z
2015-11-02T16:34:14.667Z
Andriy Volkov
<p>Suffering (un-satisfactoriness) is the result of impermanence of Sensations / what is felt and Fabrication in general when Perceived through Mental Distortions when there is a gap between reality and Perception. (In many Suttas, inclusive of the latter, it is mentioned "in short 5 aggregates of clinging is suffering" but in <a href="http://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/6.8-Titthayatana-S-a03.61-piya.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Titth’ayatana Sutta</a> it is mentioned "Now, it is for one who feels that I make known: This is suffering ...")</p>

<p>Nirodha is not creating more un-satisfactoriness through Becoming or creating Fabrications by Distortion through Perception as well as Craving and Clinging.</p>

<p>Nirvana is unconditioned hence non dependent on anything. If it was conditioned it will be unsatisfactory as condition or its existance ceases it also ceases. This leads to a Paradox in the line of thinking in the question as when suffering ceases so does end of suffering.</p>

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2015-11-02T04:27:49.703Z
2015-11-02T16:43:21.170Z
2018-08-14T22:06:13.773Z
Suminda Sirinath S. Dharmasena
<p><strong>There is a connection,</strong> </p>

<p>If there was no suffering there is no nirodha.</p>

<p><strong>Let me give an explain from a famous teaching from Lord Buddha (The Four Noble Truths)....</strong></p>

<ul>
<li>Suffering exist because of not understanding</li>
<li>If the person understood the reality there wouldn't be a suffering in
the first place</li>
<li>To end the suffering one must first understand</li>
<li>If understanding happens in a person's mind he will not suffer
anymore!</li>
</ul>

<p><strong>Lord Buddha said...</strong></p>

<ul>
<li><p>Everything is born because of reasons</p></li>
<li><p>Everything exist because of reasons</p></li>
<li><p>Things will exist only till the reasons exist</p></li>
<li><p>if you take them away it will not exist anymore</p></li>
</ul>

<p><strong>What are the Four Noble Truths - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths</a></strong></p>

<p><em>This is the answer to your question and any such questions about connections between things.</em></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-11-03T20:33:54.867Z
"3. To end the suffering one must first understand", but you write that "2. If the person understood". What's the difference in "understanding"?
draks ...
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2015-11-03T20:52:57.167Z
If the person understood that there is only a functioning mind and a functioning body not a person then it would be the end of suffering but if it was understood the moment he was born he would not know what suffering is.   So suffering exist because it was never understood by the person,if he understand it he will suffer no more. i hope i answered  your question. please ask any question you have of my answer i am happy to help  : )
Theravada
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2015-11-03T21:13:44.217Z
Did anyone *understood [it] the moment he was born*? Even for Buddha it took a while...
draks ...
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2015-11-03T23:37:42.103Z
@draks... Exactly,there is no one who has understood it in their first moment.That is why Lord Buddha said birth is suffering because when you are born you start your suffering because you think everything that is picked up by your senses are "You" instead of trying to understand it.
Theravada
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2015-11-03T20:19:33.223Z
2015-11-03T20:19:33.223Z
Theravada
<p><a href="https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/a/11560/1127">This answer</a> includes the following statement:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>But some other <strong>dharmas</strong> are still empty <strong>without being dependently originated</strong>, like <em>nirodha</em> or <em>tathata</em>.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>A comment after the answers gives the following definitions:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p><em>nirodha</em> is cessation of suffering (nirvana), and <em>tathata</em> is true reality.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Doesn't the cessation of suffering depend on the existence of suffering, and is therefore dependently originated? </p>

<pratityasamutpada><dharmas>
Is nirodha (cessation of suffering) dependent on the existence of suffering?
# Is nirodha (cessation of suffering) dependent on the existence of suffering?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2015-11-01)

[This answer](https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/a/11560/1127) includes the following statement:

> But some other **dharmas** are still empty **without being dependently originated**, like *nirodha* or *tathata*.

A comment after the answers gives the following definitions:

> *nirodha* is cessation of suffering (nirvana), and *tathata* is true reality.

Doesn't the cessation of suffering depend on the existence of suffering, and is therefore dependently originated?

**Tags:** pratityasamutpada, dharmas


---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2015-11-02. Score: 2

I don't know if the word "dependent" is 100% correct. I would say suffering is the supporting condition for cessation.

From [Upanisaa Sutta](http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.023x.wlsh.html)

* suffering is the support condition for faith
* faith is the support condition for joy
* joy is the support condition for delight
* delight is the support condition for tranquillity
* tranquillity is the support condition for happiness
* happiness is the support condition for concentration
* concentration is the support condition for for knowledge and wisdom for things as they are
* knowledge and wisdom for things as they are is the support condition for disenchantment
* disenchantment is the support condition for dispassion
* dispassion is the support condition for liberation (another word Buddha used for Nirodha or nibbana)

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Lady Patacara,an arahat in Buddha's time, she was suffered a great deal when her  family was killed.  This is a classic example of suffering is the supporting condition for Nirodha  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patacara IMO human has just enough suffering (compare to none in heaven and tons in hell) to have faith (or Saddhaa)  
> **username_2**: +1 good point, forgot about this!  
> **username_0**: How does your "support condition" comapre to [username_4's](http://buddhism.stackexchange.com/a/12380/461) "connection"? BTW: By "dependent" you're referring to the quality of the dharma, right?  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2015-11-02. Score: 2

Although *nirodha* is usually translated "cessation", its main meaning is "restraint", "prevention" - e.g. of crime or any undesired activity/outcome. In modern Hindi, nirodh is even used as a word for condom.

If you really think about it, this makes sense. The way cessation of dukkha is achieved is through non-attachment - i.e. non-creation of conditions that make arising of `dukkha` possible. In other words, non-attachment is *prevention* of `dukkha`.

Prevention of X does not depend on existence of X.


---

### Answer by username_3 on 2015-11-02. Score: 1

Suffering (un-satisfactoriness) is the result of impermanence of Sensations / what is felt and Fabrication in general when Perceived through Mental Distortions when there is a gap between reality and Perception. (In many Suttas, inclusive of the latter, it is mentioned "in short 5 aggregates of clinging is suffering" but in [Titth’ayatana Sutta](http://www.themindingcentre.org/dharmafarer/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/6.8-Titthayatana-S-a03.61-piya.pdf) it is mentioned "Now, it is for one who feels that I make known: This is suffering ...")

Nirodha is not creating more un-satisfactoriness through Becoming or creating Fabrications by Distortion through Perception as well as Craving and Clinging.

Nirvana is unconditioned hence non dependent on anything. If it was conditioned it will be unsatisfactory as condition or its existance ceases it also ceases. This leads to a Paradox in the line of thinking in the question as when suffering ceases so does end of suffering.


---

### Answer by username_4 on 2015-11-03. Score: 1

**There is a connection,**

If there was no suffering there is no nirodha.

**Let me give an explain from a famous teaching from Lord Buddha (The Four Noble Truths)....**

* Suffering exist because of not understanding
* If the person understood the reality there wouldn't be a suffering in
  the first place
* To end the suffering one must first understand
* If understanding happens in a person's mind he will not suffer
  anymore!

**Lord Buddha said...**

* Everything is born because of reasons
* Everything exist because of reasons
* Things will exist only till the reasons exist
* if you take them away it will not exist anymore

**What are the Four Noble Truths - <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths>**

*This is the answer to your question and any such questions about connections between things.*

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: "3. To end the suffering one must first understand", but you write that "2. If the person understood". What's the difference in "understanding"?  
> **username_4**: If the person understood that there is only a functioning mind and a functioning body not a person then it would be the end of suffering but if it was understood the moment he was born he would not know what suffering is.   So suffering exist because it was never understood by the person,if he understand it he will suffer no more. i hope i answered  your question. please ask any question you have of my answer i am happy to help  : )  
> **username_0**: Did anyone *understood [it] the moment he was born*? Even for Buddha it took a while...  
> **username_4**: @draks... Exactly,there is no one who has understood it in their first moment.That is why Lord Buddha said birth is suffering because when you are born you start your suffering because you think everything that is picked up by your senses are "You" instead of trying to understand it.  

---

