<p>Buddha spoke about cessation of karma and liberation from karma. For Arahant, or for Buddha, there's no acquiring of karma anymore. Indeed, if they still acquired karma, how could we call it "liberation"?</p>

<p>But how can an Arahant or a Buddha act without acquiring karma? </p>

<p>In my understanding, this is possible because only <em>appropriated</em> action, i.e. action considered to be done "by me" counts as that person's own karma.</p>

<p>Since an enlightened being does not reify the concept of "a being" or "self", there is no-one left to acquire karma. There is no way Buddha could appropriate his actions as "I did this", because he had done away with the notion of "I", he only used it for communication with the unenlightened.</p>

<p>So whatever we think is done by Buddha or Arahant, from their perspective is not their (personal) intention, and is therefore not <em>their</em> (personal) karma. </p>

<p>Buddha's actions can still have results. Generally speaking, in terms of results, this is the third type of actions, one that leads to cessation. We can still observe some of the results of Buddha's actions in our own lives - us studying and practicing Dharma. In fact, the results are unfolding in front of our own eyes, in form of this question and answer site. But these results are not Buddha's <em>personal</em> karma, since they did not come bundled with the concept of "self".</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-10-10T20:15:47.240Z
2019-10-11T00:14:37.597Z
2019-10-11T00:14:37.597Z
Andriy Volkov
<p><em>As I see it</em> <strong>dukkha</strong> or suffering <strong>is bad karma</strong>, <strong>good karma leads to nirvana</strong>. And <strong>when all karma is purified Nirvana happens</strong>.</p>

<p>If all karma is purified then it's not possible to create bad karma because every thought and action is purified and is Nirvana.</p>

<p>Nirvana is having no bad karma and if that is the case then all actions are good karma for all sentient beings.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-10-12T22:29:07.817Z
2019-10-12T22:29:07.817Z
Hundred Songs
<p>If you understand by <em>karma</em> to simply mean causation (of some kind) then <em>karma</em> is there, irrespective of whether one is enlightened or not. If you understand by <em>karma</em> as action (at any of the three levels of body, speech or mind) then <em>karma</em> is there, irrespective of whether one is enlightened or not. </p>

<p>The way <em>karma</em> is different is only in the sense of being good or bad <em>karma</em>. A good <em>karma</em> means action that does not lead to further clinging, a cause whose effect is as benficial as the unclinging cause is. A bad <em>karma</em> means action that creates clinging, a causae whose effect is harmful, as one becomes clings slightly strongly than before to the samsaric flow. </p>

<p><em>Karma</em> comes as a result dependent on conditions. If conditions are right, then the result will arise, endure and cease. If conditions are not right, then the result will not arise, not endure and not cease. The arising (and enduring and ceasation) of every <em>karmic</em> action (and <em>karmic</em> intention) is inevitable. That is, <em>karma</em> is bound to produce some effects, results, consequences; irrespective of the fact that it is the <em>karma</em> of enlightened being or not an enlightened being.</p>

<p>As one builds up more good <em>karma</em>, it becomes easier to build up more good <em>karma</em> even further (habituation, conditioning). </p>

<p>If by enlightened <em>karma</em>, you mean the <em>karma</em> of enlightened beings, then certainly all of it is good- for by very definition of enlightened beings, all there actions, words and thoughts are steeped in wisdom and compassion. </p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-10-10T20:53:06.683Z
2019-10-10T20:53:06.683Z
HomagetoManjushri
<p>The outcome of deeds is discussed in <a href="https://suttacentral.net/an4.233/en/sujato" rel="nofollow noreferrer">AN4.233</a>:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>“Mendicants, I declare these four kinds of deeds, having realized them with my own insight.</p>
  
  <p>What four?</p>
  
  <p>There are dark deeds with dark results;</p>
  
  <p>bright deeds with bright results;</p>
  
  <p>dark and bright deeds with dark and bright results; and</p>
  
  <p><strong>neither dark nor bright deeds with neither dark nor bright results, which lead to the ending of deeds.</strong></p>
</blockquote>

<p>The fourth is the destination of the Noble Eightfold Path:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>And what are neither dark nor bright deeds with neither dark nor bright results, which lead to the ending of deeds?
  It’s the intention to give up dark deeds with dark results, bright deeds with bright results, and both dark and bright deeds with both dark and bright results.
  These are called neither dark nor bright deeds with neither dark nor bright results, which lead to the ending of deeds.
  These are the four kinds of deeds that I declare, having realized them with my own insight.”</p>
</blockquote>

<p>In other words, in giving up identity view and all its wishes, the grasping that leads to rebirth, continued existence and suffering is relinquished and extinguished.</p>

<p>Note that non-arahants with some attainment as well as arahants would both relinquish the first three deeds in favor of the fourth. The difference is that non-arahants would still wish and need to practice towards the realization of the fourth clause. They would still have some identity view (e.g., "the conceit, 'I am'").</p>

<p>With Right Wisdom and Right Freedom, arahants will have given up all deeds. Arahants will, per this sutta, have attained the "ending of deeds".</p>

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2024-10-18T23:23:30.213Z
but identity is also asava i read, not sure how that's related to 'all its wishes'
blue_ego
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2024-10-20T15:27:31.293Z
"its" refers to identify view. Thinking "this is mine" is a wish and claim built on impermanence and therefore suffering.
OyaMist
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-10-10T20:49:24.740Z
2019-10-11T17:39:37.133Z
2019-10-11T17:39:37.133Z
OyaMist
<p>In its essence, "kamma" means "action" <em>with attachment</em>. </p>

<p>While the suttas do refer to "<em>kamma without attachment</em>" namely, "<em>neither-dark-nor-bright kamma</em>" (<a href="https://suttacentral.net/an4.237/en/thanissaro" rel="nofollow noreferrer">AN 4.237</a>), this type of kamma is also called the "<em>kamma that ends kamma</em>" (AN 6.63). Therefore, it is not really "kamma". </p>

<p>the essential meaning of "kamma" is "<em>action with attachment</em>", as follows:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>And what is the right view with effluents, siding with merit,
  resulting in <strong>acquisitions (attachment)</strong>? 'There is what is given,
  what is offered, what is sacrificed. <strong>There are fruits &amp; results of
  good &amp; bad actions</strong>.... </p>
  
  <p>MN 117</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Refer to Bhikkhu Buddhadasa PDF booklet: <a href="https://www.suanmokkh.org/system/books/files/000/000/089/original/Kamma_in_buddhism_Buddhadasa_bhikkhu.pdf?1485253529" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Kamma in Buddhism</a></p>

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2019-10-11T01:29:43.797Z
2019-10-11T01:35:11.200Z
2019-10-11T01:35:11.200Z
Dhamma Dhatu
<p>Does a Buddha or Arahant not make good or neutral karma? If somehow an enlightened one does make karma does it immediately come to a result? Are all the actions enlightened beings  do the result(vipaka) of previous good karma while on on the path to Nirvana? Is all the enlightened karma neutral?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-10-11T17:58:04.043Z
@SamanaJohann plz post that as answer.
Andriy Volkov
<karma><nirvana><buddha><arahant>
Enlightend beings don't make more good or neutral karma?
# Enlightend beings don't make more good or neutral karma?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-10-10)

Does a Buddha or Arahant not make good or neutral karma? If somehow an enlightened one does make karma does it immediately come to a result? Are all the actions enlightened beings do the result(vipaka) of previous good karma while on on the path to Nirvana? Is all the enlightened karma neutral?

**Tags:** karma, nirvana, buddha, arahant

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: @SamanaJohann plz post that as answer.  

---

## 5 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2019-10-10. Score: 4

The outcome of deeds is discussed in [AN4.233](https://suttacentral.net/an4.233/en/sujato):

> “Mendicants, I declare these four kinds of deeds, having realized them with my own insight.
>
> What four?
>
> There are dark deeds with dark results;
>
> bright deeds with bright results;
>
> dark and bright deeds with dark and bright results; and
>
> **neither dark nor bright deeds with neither dark nor bright results, which lead to the ending of deeds.**

The fourth is the destination of the Noble Eightfold Path:

> And what are neither dark nor bright deeds with neither dark nor bright results, which lead to the ending of deeds?
> It’s the intention to give up dark deeds with dark results, bright deeds with bright results, and both dark and bright deeds with both dark and bright results.
> These are called neither dark nor bright deeds with neither dark nor bright results, which lead to the ending of deeds.
> These are the four kinds of deeds that I declare, having realized them with my own insight.”

In other words, in giving up identity view and all its wishes, the grasping that leads to rebirth, continued existence and suffering is relinquished and extinguished.

Note that non-arahants with some attainment as well as arahants would both relinquish the first three deeds in favor of the fourth. The difference is that non-arahants would still wish and need to practice towards the realization of the fourth clause. They would still have some identity view (e.g., "the conceit, 'I am'").

With Right Wisdom and Right Freedom, arahants will have given up all deeds. Arahants will, per this sutta, have attained the "ending of deeds".

> **Comments:**
> **username_5**: but identity is also asava i read, not sure how that's related to 'all its wishes'  
> **username_4**: "its" refers to identify view. Thinking "this is mine" is a wish and claim built on impermanence and therefore suffering.  

---

### Answer by username_6 on 2019-10-11. Score: 4

In its essence, "kamma" means "action" *with attachment*.

While the suttas do refer to "*kamma without attachment*" namely, "*neither-dark-nor-bright kamma*" ([AN 4.237](https://suttacentral.net/an4.237/en/thanissaro)), this type of kamma is also called the "*kamma that ends kamma*" (AN 6.63). Therefore, it is not really "kamma".

the essential meaning of "kamma" is "*action with attachment*", as follows:

> And what is the right view with effluents, siding with merit,
> resulting in **acquisitions (attachment)**? 'There is what is given,
> what is offered, what is sacrificed. **There are fruits & results of
> good & bad actions**....
>
> MN 117

Refer to Bhikkhu Buddhadasa PDF booklet: [Kamma in Buddhism](https://www.suanmokkh.org/system/books/files/000/000/089/original/Kamma_in_buddhism_Buddhadasa_bhikkhu.pdf?1485253529)


---

### Answer by username_1 on 2019-10-10. Score: 3

Buddha spoke about cessation of karma and liberation from karma. For Arahant, or for Buddha, there's no acquiring of karma anymore. Indeed, if they still acquired karma, how could we call it "liberation"?

But how can an Arahant or a Buddha act without acquiring karma?

In my understanding, this is possible because only *appropriated* action, i.e. action considered to be done "by me" counts as that person's own karma.

Since an enlightened being does not reify the concept of "a being" or "self", there is no-one left to acquire karma. There is no way Buddha could appropriate his actions as "I did this", because he had done away with the notion of "I", he only used it for communication with the unenlightened.

So whatever we think is done by Buddha or Arahant, from their perspective is not their (personal) intention, and is therefore not *their* (personal) karma.

Buddha's actions can still have results. Generally speaking, in terms of results, this is the third type of actions, one that leads to cessation. We can still observe some of the results of Buddha's actions in our own lives - us studying and practicing Dharma. In fact, the results are unfolding in front of our own eyes, in form of this question and answer site. But these results are not Buddha's *personal* karma, since they did not come bundled with the concept of "self".


---

### Answer by username_2 on 2019-10-12. Score: 0

*As I see it* **dukkha** or suffering **is bad karma**, **good karma leads to nirvana**. And **when all karma is purified Nirvana happens**.

If all karma is purified then it's not possible to create bad karma because every thought and action is purified and is Nirvana.

Nirvana is having no bad karma and if that is the case then all actions are good karma for all sentient beings.


---

### Answer by username_3 on 2019-10-10. Score: 0

If you understand by *karma* to simply mean causation (of some kind) then *karma* is there, irrespective of whether one is enlightened or not. If you understand by *karma* as action (at any of the three levels of body, speech or mind) then *karma* is there, irrespective of whether one is enlightened or not.

The way *karma* is different is only in the sense of being good or bad *karma*. A good *karma* means action that does not lead to further clinging, a cause whose effect is as benficial as the unclinging cause is. A bad *karma* means action that creates clinging, a causae whose effect is harmful, as one becomes clings slightly strongly than before to the samsaric flow.

*Karma* comes as a result dependent on conditions. If conditions are right, then the result will arise, endure and cease. If conditions are not right, then the result will not arise, not endure and not cease. The arising (and enduring and ceasation) of every *karmic* action (and *karmic* intention) is inevitable. That is, *karma* is bound to produce some effects, results, consequences; irrespective of the fact that it is the *karma* of enlightened being or not an enlightened being.

As one builds up more good *karma*, it becomes easier to build up more good *karma* even further (habituation, conditioning).

If by enlightened *karma*, you mean the *karma* of enlightened beings, then certainly all of it is good- for by very definition of enlightened beings, all there actions, words and thoughts are steeped in wisdom and compassion.


---

