<p>In Theravada, the criteria for accepting any teaching as authentic is based on <em>Mahapadesa sutta</em>, also found in <em>Mahaparinibbana sutta</em> and <em>Nettipakarana</em>. Accordingly, any Dhamma that's heard as a Buddha's statement must be verified with the <em>suttas</em> and the <em>vinaya</em>.  </p>

<p>This also indicates that the authority increases from a single monk to a group of monks, and the highest authority is given to the words directly heard from the Buddha. Even so, it must be cross checked with the suttas and vinaya to see if they were interpreted correctly. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Then the Blessed One said: "In this fashion, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might
  speak: 'Face to face with the Blessed One, brethren, I have heard and
  learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's
  Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name lives a
  community with elders and a chief. Face to face with that community, I
  have heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline,
  the Master's Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name
  live several bhikkhus who are elders, who are learned, who have
  accomplished their course, who are preservers of the Dhamma, the
  Discipline, and the Summaries. Face to face with those elders, I have
  heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the
  Master's Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name lives
  a single bhikkhu who is an elder, who is learned, who has accomplished
  his course, who is a preserver of the Dhamma, the Discipline, and the
  Summaries. Face to face with that elder, I have heard and learned
  thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's
  Dispensation.'</p>
  
  <p>"<strong><em>In such a case, bhikkhus, the declaration of such a bhikkhu is
  neither to be received with approval nor with scorn. Without approval
  and without scorn, but carefully studying the sentences word by word,
  one should trace them in the Discourses and verify them by the
  Discipline.</em></strong> If they are neither traceable in the Discourses nor
  verifiable by the Discipline, one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this
  is not the Blessed One's utterance; this has been misunderstood by
  that bhikkhu — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that
  elder.' In that way, bhikkhus, you should reject it. But if the
  sentences concerned are traceable in the Discourses and verifiable by
  the Discipline, then one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this is the
  Blessed One's utterance; this has been well understood by that bhikkhu
  — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that elder.' And in
  that way, bhikkhus, you may accept it on the first, second, third, or
  fourth reference. These, bhikkhus, are the four great references for
  you to preserve."<br>
  <a href="http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.16.1-6.vaji.html#fnt-37" rel="nofollow">Mahāpadesā sutta</a></p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-09T10:53:20.723Z
The answer does not address the question which is about how scholars determine authenticity.
Jayarava
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-09T10:59:19.377Z
@Jayarava It depends on how you define a scholar. This is in Theravada perspective. There are learned people in this doctrine too.
dmsp
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-10T09:12:52.897Z
@Jayarava Ahh you are asking for references! Here's one. Page 104. http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/mission-accomplished.pdf
dmsp
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-10T09:53:01.277Z
Yes. *Great!* A summary of this material, ca p.104-113 would have made an *excellent* answer to this question because it shows how Theravādin scholars have approached the question of authenticity in the past. Could you incorporate this into your answer do you think?
Jayarava
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-10T10:06:25.610Z
@Jayarava I'll try, probably during the weekend.
dmsp
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-07T19:58:26.290Z
2015-09-07T21:49:50.977Z
2015-09-07T21:49:50.977Z
dmsp
<p>Traditionally, the criteria for teaching authenticity are:</p>

<ul>
<li>it must not contradict the observable facts and laws of nature,</li>
<li>it must not contradict commonly recognized moral rules,</li>
<li>it should lead to letting go, cooling down, emancipation, liberation,</li>
<li>it should be traceable to a remark made in the suttas, preferably in multiple places.</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-07T13:07:57.713Z
Where is this list from?
Ryan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-07T13:13:02.193Z
I heard it from my teacher and he must have heard it from his teacher ;)
Andriy Volkov
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-07T13:47:36.353Z
Traditionally indeed :)
Ryan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-09T10:52:49.893Z
The answer does not address the question which was about how scholars determined "authenticity".
Jayarava
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-07T13:01:16.857Z
2015-09-07T13:12:36.693Z
2015-09-07T13:12:36.693Z
Andriy Volkov
<p>The trouble with the question is that it uses a very vague term: "authenticity". We don't really know what this means to the questioner. And it is likely that it means different things to different people. </p>

<p>From a scholars point of view, if <em>authentic</em> means that the texts are what they themselves say they are, the there are probably no authentic texts. If <em>authentic</em> means, texts that were accepted as authentic by a Buddhist tradition at some point, then almost everything written is authentic. </p>

<p>Not that authenticity is a trivial issue for Buddhists. One could go as far as to say that it is an obsession. But authenticity is not so much a part of the scholarly approach to texts. A scholar may try to pin down the provenance of a text, but whether knowing this makes a text authentic or not is probably not an issue for a scholar.</p>

<p>For example, I work on the Heart Sutra. Since Jan Nattier's <a href="http://terebess.hu/zen/szoto/Heart-Sutra-Jan-Nattier.pdf" rel="nofollow">1992 article</a> on it, the Heart Sutra is now widely regarded, by scholars though not religieux, as having been compiled in China from quotations from other sutras, mainly the 25,000 line Perfection of Wisdom text, in Kumārajīva's Chinese translation. This probably happened ca. 7th century. It was later translated into Sanskrit, and then added to leaving a short text and a long text.</p>

<p>For religieux the text is authentic because they saw it has having a Sanskrit "original" and because centuries of teaching lineages proclaimed it "authentic". Scholar's now think that Mahāyāna texts were composed in Middle-Indic and translated into Sanskrit in the 4th or 5th century (during the Gupta Empire the use of Sanskrit as a literary language was widespread in North India). So having a Sanskrit text no longer signifies authenticity. Having a Gāndhārī text is more likely to be considered a measure of antiquity and therefore authenticity.</p>

<p>On the other hand the Heart Sutra seems to an authentic product of the Buddhist milieu in 7th century China which combined the cult of Avalokiteśvara, with study of Perfection of Wisdom, and the use of magic spells for protection (Pāḷi parrita; Skt dhāraṇī). </p>

<p>Ironically the long Sanskrit Heart Sutra which has the traditional trappings of authenticity (eg. it begins एवं मया श्रुतं) is now seen as less authentic because it's apparent that the standard sutra beginning was added later. The short text is more authentic because it is closer to the <em>original</em> Chinese versions. </p>

<p>Until recently the Chinese version attributed to Xuanzang (T251) was considered more authentic, but Nattier cast doubt on the attribution so now it seems less authentic. Indeed the version attributed to Xuanzang (T251) or the version attributed to Kumārajīva (T250) can not have been the product of these men, and neither of them can have been the model for the extant Sanskrit version. So the original text, the most authentic text, is actually missing. No attempt has yet been made to reconstruct the original (though I think it ought to be possible). But then the question of how authentic a reconstructed text would be is a big one.</p>

<p>For more than 60 years the Sanskrit text, edited and published by Edward Conze in 1948 and revised in 1967, was considered the authentic Sanskrit Heart Sutra. Conze compared many manuscripts and tried to imagine what the author had intended. But Conze made a number of mistakes (one of which I identified and corrected in my <a href="http://www.jocbs.org/index.php/jocbs/article/view/104" rel="nofollow">2015 article for the JOCBS</a>). So Conze's edition, long treated as the authentic Heart Sutra must now considered rather inauthentic - indeed Conze's version is a badly edited version of a poor translation of a Chinese text. </p>

<p>It's apparent that authentic is a very difficult concept to pin down. What it might mean to a scholar is quite different from what it might mean to a religieux. A Theravādin will most likely not consider any Mahāyāna texts as authentic. But then most scholars don't find the Theravādin idea of "authentic" meaningful - it's wholly an insider perspective. </p>

<p>Authenticity is important to religious sectarians primary, In my opinion, because they are involved in a competition for resources with other sects (Buddhist and non-Buddhist). "Authenticity" is like a seal of approval. For lay Buddhists it is a means of ensuring maximum merit from generosity to religious organisations. For monastic Buddhists it helps to ensure their continued hegemony and control of resources. In terms of the study of texts none of this is very relevant. I can't be sure, but in eight published articles on Buddhist texts I don't think I have used the word authentic or any derivative of it. It's just not a very interesting concept. </p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-09T17:22:52.347Z
Were the suttas taught by the Buddha? Were the suttas authentic? That's what I mean by authentic. Authenticity= How much a sutta appears to be the Buddha's own words   by the means we have to know this and by the skill and wisdom of the scholar.
Lowbrow
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-10T22:49:25.723Z
When @Uilium said "comparing Chinese translations" he might have meant Āgamas for example [like this comparison](https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/pdf/5-personen/analayo/bahudhatuka.pdf). Uilum you might use a tag like [tag:pali-canon] or [tag:early-buddhism] on your question[s].
ChrisW
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-13T15:46:31.017Z
@ChrisW yes, pali-Canon and the Agamas...I was too vague huh? Thanks :)
Lowbrow
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-09T11:33:06.400Z
2015-09-09T11:33:06.400Z
Jayarava
<p>Check out the paper/book called "The Authenticity of Early Buddhist Texts":</p>

<p><a href="https://ocbs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/authenticity.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://ocbs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/authenticity.pdf</a></p>

<p>The short answer is that there are many ways spanning multiple disciplines that scholars use in an attempt to determine authenticity.</p>

<p>With that being said, scholars are beings, the same way the Buddha is a being. It's up to an individual to figure out who they wish to listen to and heed.</p>

<p>I think the Mahapadesa sutta found within the Mahaparinibbana sutta (DN 16) as shared by the individual above seems like the most reliable guide.</p>

<p>I also think what scholars say is definitely important, but secondary to this.</p>

<p>But again, it's up to the individual to voluntarily choose which individual or group to pay attention to and heed the most.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-29T18:41:06.820Z
2019-04-29T18:41:06.820Z
Guest
<p>Is there some website or book somewhere that lists suttas on different criteria like what suttas are more core or more likely to be authentic do to scholarly analysis like comparing Chinese translations or other ways of analysis...that brings me to another question. What are the different ways scholars can find clues or evidence of a sutta's authenticity?</p>

<pali-canon><suttas><truth><dilemma>
Finding Authentic Suttas
# Finding Authentic Suttas

(Asked by: username_0 on 2015-09-07)

Is there some website or book somewhere that lists suttas on different criteria like what suttas are more core or more likely to be authentic do to scholarly analysis like comparing Chinese translations or other ways of analysis...that brings me to another question. What are the different ways scholars can find clues or evidence of a sutta's authenticity?

**Tags:** pali-canon, suttas, truth, dilemma


---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2015-09-07. Score: 2

In Theravada, the criteria for accepting any teaching as authentic is based on *Mahapadesa sutta*, also found in *Mahaparinibbana sutta* and *Nettipakarana*. Accordingly, any Dhamma that's heard as a Buddha's statement must be verified with the *suttas* and the *vinaya*.

This also indicates that the authority increases from a single monk to a group of monks, and the highest authority is given to the words directly heard from the Buddha. Even so, it must be cross checked with the suttas and vinaya to see if they were interpreted correctly.

> Then the Blessed One said: "In this fashion, bhikkhus, a bhikkhu might
> speak: 'Face to face with the Blessed One, brethren, I have heard and
> learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's
> Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name lives a
> community with elders and a chief. Face to face with that community, I
> have heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline,
> the Master's Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name
> live several bhikkhus who are elders, who are learned, who have
> accomplished their course, who are preservers of the Dhamma, the
> Discipline, and the Summaries. Face to face with those elders, I have
> heard and learned thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the
> Master's Dispensation'; or: 'In an abode of such and such a name lives
> a single bhikkhu who is an elder, who is learned, who has accomplished
> his course, who is a preserver of the Dhamma, the Discipline, and the
> Summaries. Face to face with that elder, I have heard and learned
> thus: This is the Dhamma and the Discipline, the Master's
> Dispensation.'
>
> "***In such a case, bhikkhus, the declaration of such a bhikkhu is
> neither to be received with approval nor with scorn. Without approval
> and without scorn, but carefully studying the sentences word by word,
> one should trace them in the Discourses and verify them by the
> Discipline.*** If they are neither traceable in the Discourses nor
> verifiable by the Discipline, one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this
> is not the Blessed One's utterance; this has been misunderstood by
> that bhikkhu — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that
> elder.' In that way, bhikkhus, you should reject it. But if the
> sentences concerned are traceable in the Discourses and verifiable by
> the Discipline, then one must conclude thus: 'Certainly, this is the
> Blessed One's utterance; this has been well understood by that bhikkhu
> — or by that community, or by those elders, or by that elder.' And in
> that way, bhikkhus, you may accept it on the first, second, third, or
> fourth reference. These, bhikkhus, are the four great references for
> you to preserve."  
> [Mahāpadesā sutta](http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.16.1-6.vaji.html#fnt-37)

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: The answer does not address the question which is about how scholars determine authenticity.  
> **username_1**: @username_2 It depends on how you define a scholar. This is in Theravada perspective. There are learned people in this doctrine too.  
> **username_1**: @username_2 Ahh you are asking for references! Here's one. Page 104. http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/mission-accomplished.pdf  
> **username_2**: Yes. *Great!* A summary of this material, ca p.104-113 would have made an *excellent* answer to this question because it shows how Theravādin scholars have approached the question of authenticity in the past. Could you incorporate this into your answer do you think?  
> **username_1**: @username_2 I'll try, probably during the weekend.  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2015-09-07. Score: 2

Traditionally, the criteria for teaching authenticity are:

* it must not contradict the observable facts and laws of nature,
* it must not contradict commonly recognized moral rules,
* it should lead to letting go, cooling down, emancipation, liberation,
* it should be traceable to a remark made in the suttas, preferably in multiple places.

> **Comments:**
> **username_4**: Where is this list from?  
> **username_3**: I heard it from my teacher and he must have heard it from his teacher ;)  
> **username_4**: Traditionally indeed :)  
> **username_2**: The answer does not address the question which was about how scholars determined "authenticity".  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2015-09-09. Score: 1

The trouble with the question is that it uses a very vague term: "authenticity". We don't really know what this means to the questioner. And it is likely that it means different things to different people.

From a scholars point of view, if *authentic* means that the texts are what they themselves say they are, the there are probably no authentic texts. If *authentic* means, texts that were accepted as authentic by a Buddhist tradition at some point, then almost everything written is authentic.

Not that authenticity is a trivial issue for Buddhists. One could go as far as to say that it is an obsession. But authenticity is not so much a part of the scholarly approach to texts. A scholar may try to pin down the provenance of a text, but whether knowing this makes a text authentic or not is probably not an issue for a scholar.

For example, I work on the Heart Sutra. Since Jan Nattier's [1992 article](http://terebess.hu/zen/szoto/Heart-Sutra-Jan-Nattier.pdf) on it, the Heart Sutra is now widely regarded, by scholars though not religieux, as having been compiled in China from quotations from other sutras, mainly the 25,000 line Perfection of Wisdom text, in Kumārajīva's Chinese translation. This probably happened ca. 7th century. It was later translated into Sanskrit, and then added to leaving a short text and a long text.

For religieux the text is authentic because they saw it has having a Sanskrit "original" and because centuries of teaching lineages proclaimed it "authentic". Scholar's now think that Mahāyāna texts were composed in Middle-Indic and translated into Sanskrit in the 4th or 5th century (during the Gupta Empire the use of Sanskrit as a literary language was widespread in North India). So having a Sanskrit text no longer signifies authenticity. Having a Gāndhārī text is more likely to be considered a measure of antiquity and therefore authenticity.

On the other hand the Heart Sutra seems to an authentic product of the Buddhist milieu in 7th century China which combined the cult of Avalokiteśvara, with study of Perfection of Wisdom, and the use of magic spells for protection (Pāḷi parrita; Skt dhāraṇī).

Ironically the long Sanskrit Heart Sutra which has the traditional trappings of authenticity (eg. it begins एवं मया श्रुतं) is now seen as less authentic because it's apparent that the standard sutra beginning was added later. The short text is more authentic because it is closer to the *original* Chinese versions.

Until recently the Chinese version attributed to Xuanzang (T251) was considered more authentic, but Nattier cast doubt on the attribution so now it seems less authentic. Indeed the version attributed to Xuanzang (T251) or the version attributed to Kumārajīva (T250) can not have been the product of these men, and neither of them can have been the model for the extant Sanskrit version. So the original text, the most authentic text, is actually missing. No attempt has yet been made to reconstruct the original (though I think it ought to be possible). But then the question of how authentic a reconstructed text would be is a big one.

For more than 60 years the Sanskrit text, edited and published by Edward Conze in 1948 and revised in 1967, was considered the authentic Sanskrit Heart Sutra. Conze compared many manuscripts and tried to imagine what the author had intended. But Conze made a number of mistakes (one of which I identified and corrected in my [2015 article for the JOCBS](http://www.jocbs.org/index.php/jocbs/article/view/104)). So Conze's edition, long treated as the authentic Heart Sutra must now considered rather inauthentic - indeed Conze's version is a badly edited version of a poor translation of a Chinese text.

It's apparent that authentic is a very difficult concept to pin down. What it might mean to a scholar is quite different from what it might mean to a religieux. A Theravādin will most likely not consider any Mahāyāna texts as authentic. But then most scholars don't find the Theravādin idea of "authentic" meaningful - it's wholly an insider perspective.

Authenticity is important to religious sectarians primary, In my opinion, because they are involved in a competition for resources with other sects (Buddhist and non-Buddhist). "Authenticity" is like a seal of approval. For lay Buddhists it is a means of ensuring maximum merit from generosity to religious organisations. For monastic Buddhists it helps to ensure their continued hegemony and control of resources. In terms of the study of texts none of this is very relevant. I can't be sure, but in eight published articles on Buddhist texts I don't think I have used the word authentic or any derivative of it. It's just not a very interesting concept.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Were the suttas taught by the Buddha? Were the suttas authentic? That's what I mean by authentic. Authenticity= How much a sutta appears to be the Buddha's own words   by the means we have to know this and by the skill and wisdom of the scholar.  
> **username_5**: When @Uilium said "comparing Chinese translations" he might have meant Āgamas for example [like this comparison](https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg.de/pdf/5-personen/analayo/bahudhatuka.pdf). Uilum you might use a tag like [tag:pali-canon] or [tag:early-buddhism] on your question[s].  
> **username_0**: @username_5 yes, pali-Canon and the Agamas...I was too vague huh? Thanks :)  

---

### Answer by username_6 on 2019-04-29. Score: 1

Check out the paper/book called "The Authenticity of Early Buddhist Texts":

<https://ocbs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/authenticity.pdf>

The short answer is that there are many ways spanning multiple disciplines that scholars use in an attempt to determine authenticity.

With that being said, scholars are beings, the same way the Buddha is a being. It's up to an individual to figure out who they wish to listen to and heed.

I think the Mahapadesa sutta found within the Mahaparinibbana sutta (DN 16) as shared by the individual above seems like the most reliable guide.

I also think what scholars say is definitely important, but secondary to this.

But again, it's up to the individual to voluntarily choose which individual or group to pay attention to and heed the most.


---

