<p>Ven. Bodhi's note citing Comy's explanation:<br/>
"[The noble disciple] understands: "Whatever bad deed I did here in the past with this deed-born body is all to be experienced here"[2190]  Karajakaya. I translate the expression literally but it may imply much the same thing as such English expressions as 'this mortal body' or 'this corporeal body.' DOP sv kara, says: 'A body produced by action, the physical body.' SN 12:37, II 65,1, speaks of the body as 'old kamma' (Puranamidam - kammam). The Chinese parallel has nothing that corresponds to this term.</p>

<p>" It will not follow along"[2191]  Mp: 'By means of loving-kindness, the feeling that would have been experienced upon rebirth is cut off, and thus it does not follow one along. This is the reflection of a noble person who is a stream-enterer or a once-returner.' Presumably, the bad kamma is all to be experienced here (Sabbam tam idha vedaniyam), in this life, and will not follow along (na tam anugam bhavissati) because his next rebirth will be in the form realm, where there is no painful experience, and he will attain nibbana in the form realm without returning to this world.</p>

<p>"A woman or a man should develop this liberation of mind by loving-kindness. A woman or a man cannot take this body with them when they go. Mortals have mind as their core"[2189]  Cittantaro ayam bhikkhave macco. Mp: 'They have mind as their cause, or their interior is due to mind (cittakarano, atha va citten-eva antariko). For with the mind at rebirth that follows without interval the mind at death, one becomes a deva, a hell-being, or an animal.'</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-03T18:22:17.083Z
2019-04-03T18:22:17.083Z
santa100
<p>If after liberation rather that to find something to grasp on either:</p>

<p>It simply empathizes, approves, that what ever body/kaya/stand is taken on comes into being by deeds (kamma). Nothing that one should puzzle one thought into and and "end" up in papanca anyway. </p>

<p>The certain sequences deal also with cases where one still clings to a merely mental kaya, stand. That is why there is no final liberation at this point.</p>

<p>"Just" cetovimutti but try it, right here and now (Brahmavihara), rather to seek for another kaya. It's a Sublime host, that of the Brahma.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>...it leads to <strong>non-returning</strong> for a <strong>wise person here</strong> who does not penetrate to a further liberation</p>
</blockquote>

<p><em>(Not given for trade, exchange, stacks but for getting independent from relations and bonds.)</em></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-03T23:58:01.513Z
2019-04-03T23:58:01.513Z
Samana Johann
<p>First, AN 10.219 appears to be fake dhamma because loving-kindness cannot end the suffering of birth, aging, illness &amp; death. The following verse appears to be adhamma:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>What do you think, bhikkhus, if a youth were to develop the liberation
  of mind by loving-kindness from his childhood on, would he do a bad
  deed?”</p>
  
  <p>“No, Bhante.”</p>
  
  <p>“Could suffering affect him if he does no bad deed?” “No, Bhante. For
  on what account could suffering affect one who does no bad deed?”</p>
</blockquote>

<p>However, about past kamma, AN 10.219 appears to correctly say: </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bhikkhus, I do not say that there is a termination of volitional kamma
  that has been done and accumulated so long as one has not experienced
  its results, and that may be in the present moment, or in the near future,
  or on some subsequent occasion</p>
  
  <p>The noble disciple understands: ‘Whatever bad deed I did <strong>here</strong> in the
  past with this deed-born body is all to be experienced here. It will
  not follow along [into the future].’ When the liberation of mind by
  loving-kindness has been developed in this way, it leads to
  non-returning for a wise bhikkhu here who does not penetrate to a
  further liberation.</p>
  
  <p>This noble disciple, bhikkhus, who is thus devoid of longing, devoid
  of ill will, unconfused, clearly comprehending, ever mindful, dwells
  pervading one quarter with a mind imbued with compassion … with a mind
  imbued with altruistic joy … with a mind imbued with equanimity,
  likewise the second quarter, the third quarter, and the fourth
  quarter. Thus above, below, across, and everywhere, and to all as to
  himself, he dwells pervading the entire world with a mind imbued with
  equanimity, vast, exalted, measureless, without enmity, without ill
  will. He understands thus: ‘Previously, my mind was limited and
  undeveloped, but now it is measureless and well developed. No
  measurable kamma remains or persists there.’</p>
</blockquote>

<p>In other words, the results of "past deeds" were experienced as the "five hindrances"; that we cleansed; per the below: </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>And what is the nutriment for the five hindrances? You should say:
  ‘The three kinds of misconduct.’</p>
  
  <p>AN 10.61</p>
</blockquote>

<p>What is correct in AN 10.219 is explained in <a href="https://suttacentral.net/sn12.37/en/bodhi" rel="nofollow noreferrer">SN 12.37</a> and SN 35.146: </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bhikkhus, this group [of aggregates: "kaya"] is not yours, nor does it
  belong to others. This is old kamma, to be seen as mentally constructed by [past] volition, as something to be felt [in the
  present].</p>
</blockquote>

<p>.............</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-03T20:03:44.570Z
2019-04-04T03:34:32.353Z
2019-04-04T03:34:32.353Z
Dhamma Dhatu
<p><strong>What does deed-born body (<em>karajakāya</em>) really mean?</strong></p>

<p>It appears to mean "body born of causing".</p>

<p>It's a compound, e.g. <em>kara</em> ("causing") <em>ja</em> ("born of") kāya ("body").</p>

<p>The <a href="https://dsalsrv04.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=Kara&amp;searchhws=yes" rel="nofollow noreferrer">PTS dictionary</a> entry for <em>Kara</em> includes ...</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Kara (p. 195) Kara Kara [fr. kṛ] 1. (adj.) ( -- ˚) producing, causing, forming, making, doing</p>
</blockquote>

<p>... and ...</p>

<blockquote>
  <p><strong>ja</strong> "born of kamma" in <em>karaja -- kāya</em> the body sprung from action, an expression always used in a contemptible manner, therefore=the impure, vile, low body A v.300; J i.5; Vism 287, 404; DA i.113, 217, 221; DhA i.10; iii.420; DhsA 403. <em>karaja -- rūpa</em> Vism 326.</p>
</blockquote>

<p><a href="https://dsalsrv04.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=Ja&amp;searchhws=yes" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Also</a> ...</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Ja (p. 277) Ja Ja ( -- ˚) [adj. -- suffix from jan, see janati; cp. ˚ga; gacchati] born, produced, sprung or arisen from.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>So it's literally or etymologically <em>kara-ja-kaya</em> i.e. "body born from <em>kara</em>", where <em>kara</em> is defined as "producing, causing, forming, making, doing".</p>

<p>I don't see exactly why <em>kara</em> and <em>kamma</em> are being equated, but they're obviously pretty similar.</p>

<p>Given <a href="https://suttacentral.net/an10.219/en/sujato" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this translation</a> ...</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Whatever bad deeds I have done in the past with this deed-born body I will experience here.<br>
  <em>yaṃ kho me idaṃ kiñci pubbe iminā karajakāyena pāpakammaṃ kataṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ idha vedanīyaṃ</em></p>
</blockquote>

<p>... I think the literal word-for-word translation is something like ...</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Whatever my something in-the-past I have with this body-born-of-causing bad-deeds done, entirely in-this-world I will know them.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Perhaps you might as well just read it as kaya (i.e. body).</p>

<p>There are other bits in the sutta which just refer to body, e.g. ...</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>For neither women nor men take this body with them when they go.<br>
  <em>Itthiyā vā, bhikkhave, purisassa  vā nāyaṃ kāyo ādāya gamanīyo.</em></p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-04T11:03:16.373Z
2019-04-04T11:03:16.373Z
ChrisW
<p>In the context of the sutta below, what does the following phrase mean? - "<strong>whatever bad deed I did here in the past with this deed-born body is all to be experienced here. It will not follow along</strong>" (<em>yaṃ kho me idaṃ kiñci pubbe iminā karajakāyena pāpakammaṃ kataṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ idha vedanīyaṃ; na taṃ anugaṃ bhavissatī’ti</em>)</p>

<p>This phrase seems to apply to one who practises the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmavihara" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Brahmaviharas</a>.</p>

<p>How is it different for one who does not practise the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmavihara" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Brahmaviharas</a> (or the Dhamma in general, for that matter)?</p>

<p>What does deed-born body (<em>karajakāya</em>) really mean?</p>

<p>Also related is the phrase "<strong>A woman or a man cannot take this body with them when they go. Mortals have mind as their core.</strong>" (<em>Itthiyā vā, bhikkhave, purisassa vā nāyaṃ kāyo ādāya gamanīyo. Cittantaro ayaṃ, bhikkhave, macco.</em>). What does this mean?</p>

<p>From <a href="https://suttacentral.net/an10.219/en/bodhi" rel="nofollow noreferrer">AN 10.219</a>:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>“What do you think, bhikkhus, if a youth were to develop the
  liberation of mind by loving-kindness (and also, compassion,
  altruistic joy and equanimity) from his childhood on, would he do a
  bad deed?”</p>
  
  <p>“No, Bhante.”</p>
  
  <p>“Could suffering affect him if he does no bad deed?” “No, Bhante. For
  on what account could suffering affect one who does no bad deed?”</p>
  
  <p><strong>“A woman or a man should develop this liberation of mind by
  loving-kindness (and also, compassion, altruistic joy and equanimity).
  A woman or a man cannot take this body with them when they go. Mortals
  have mind as their core.</strong></p>
  
  <p>“The noble disciple understands: <strong>‘Whatever bad deed I did here in the
  past with this deed-born body is all to be experienced here. It will
  not follow along.’</strong> When the liberation of mind by loving-kindness (and
  also, compassion, altruistic joy and equanimity) has been developed in
  this way, it leads to non-returning for a wise bhikkhu here who does
  not penetrate to a further liberation.</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-04-04T09:39:38.550Z
Related (another question about this sutta): [All kammas have to be experienced or not?](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/q/15170/254)
ChrisW
<karma><brahmavihara>
Whatever bad deed done with this deed-born body is all to be experienced here
# Whatever bad deed done with this deed-born body is all to be experienced here

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-04-03)

In the context of the sutta below, what does the following phrase mean? - "**whatever bad deed I did here in the past with this deed-born body is all to be experienced here. It will not follow along**" (*yaṃ kho me idaṃ kiñci pubbe iminā karajakāyena pāpakammaṃ kataṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ idha vedanīyaṃ; na taṃ anugaṃ bhavissatī’ti*)

This phrase seems to apply to one who practises the [Brahmaviharas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmavihara).

How is it different for one who does not practise the [Brahmaviharas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmavihara) (or the Dhamma in general, for that matter)?

What does deed-born body (*karajakāya*) really mean?

Also related is the phrase "**A woman or a man cannot take this body with them when they go. Mortals have mind as their core.**" (*Itthiyā vā, bhikkhave, purisassa vā nāyaṃ kāyo ādāya gamanīyo. Cittantaro ayaṃ, bhikkhave, macco.*). What does this mean?

From [AN 10.219](https://suttacentral.net/an10.219/en/bodhi):

> “What do you think, bhikkhus, if a youth were to develop the
> liberation of mind by loving-kindness (and also, compassion,
> altruistic joy and equanimity) from his childhood on, would he do a
> bad deed?”
>
> “No, Bhante.”
>
> “Could suffering affect him if he does no bad deed?” “No, Bhante. For
> on what account could suffering affect one who does no bad deed?”
>
> **“A woman or a man should develop this liberation of mind by
> loving-kindness (and also, compassion, altruistic joy and equanimity).
> A woman or a man cannot take this body with them when they go. Mortals
> have mind as their core.**
>
> “The noble disciple understands: **‘Whatever bad deed I did here in the
> past with this deed-born body is all to be experienced here. It will
> not follow along.’** When the liberation of mind by loving-kindness (and
> also, compassion, altruistic joy and equanimity) has been developed in
> this way, it leads to non-returning for a wise bhikkhu here who does
> not penetrate to a further liberation.

**Tags:** karma, brahmavihara

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Related (another question about this sutta): [All kammas have to be experienced or not?](https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/q/15170/254)  

---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2019-04-04. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

**What does deed-born body (*karajakāya*) really mean?**

It appears to mean "body born of causing".

It's a compound, e.g. *kara* ("causing") *ja* ("born of") kāya ("body").

The [PTS dictionary](https://dsalsrv04.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=Kara&searchhws=yes) entry for *Kara* includes ...

> Kara (p. 195) Kara Kara [fr. kṛ] 1. (adj.) ( -- ˚) producing, causing, forming, making, doing

... and ...

> **ja** "born of kamma" in *karaja -- kāya* the body sprung from action, an expression always used in a contemptible manner, therefore=the impure, vile, low body A v.300; J i.5; Vism 287, 404; DA i.113, 217, 221; DhA i.10; iii.420; DhsA 403. *karaja -- rūpa* Vism 326.

[Also](https://dsalsrv04.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/pali_query.py?qs=Ja&searchhws=yes) ...

> Ja (p. 277) Ja Ja ( -- ˚) [adj. -- suffix from jan, see janati; cp. ˚ga; gacchati] born, produced, sprung or arisen from.

So it's literally or etymologically *kara-ja-kaya* i.e. "body born from *kara*", where *kara* is defined as "producing, causing, forming, making, doing".

I don't see exactly why *kara* and *kamma* are being equated, but they're obviously pretty similar.

Given [this translation](https://suttacentral.net/an10.219/en/sujato) ...

> Whatever bad deeds I have done in the past with this deed-born body I will experience here.  
> *yaṃ kho me idaṃ kiñci pubbe iminā karajakāyena pāpakammaṃ kataṃ, sabbaṃ taṃ idha vedanīyaṃ*

... I think the literal word-for-word translation is something like ...

> Whatever my something in-the-past I have with this body-born-of-causing bad-deeds done, entirely in-this-world I will know them.

Perhaps you might as well just read it as kaya (i.e. body).

There are other bits in the sutta which just refer to body, e.g. ...

> For neither women nor men take this body with them when they go.  
> *Itthiyā vā, bhikkhave, purisassa vā nāyaṃ kāyo ādāya gamanīyo.*


---

### Answer by username_2 on 2019-04-03. Score: 0

Ven. Bodhi's note citing Comy's explanation:  
"[The noble disciple] understands: "Whatever bad deed I did here in the past with this deed-born body is all to be experienced here"[2190] Karajakaya. I translate the expression literally but it may imply much the same thing as such English expressions as 'this mortal body' or 'this corporeal body.' DOP sv kara, says: 'A body produced by action, the physical body.' SN 12:37, II 65,1, speaks of the body as 'old kamma' (Puranamidam - kammam). The Chinese parallel has nothing that corresponds to this term.

" It will not follow along"[2191] Mp: 'By means of loving-kindness, the feeling that would have been experienced upon rebirth is cut off, and thus it does not follow one along. This is the reflection of a noble person who is a stream-enterer or a once-returner.' Presumably, the bad kamma is all to be experienced here (Sabbam tam idha vedaniyam), in this life, and will not follow along (na tam anugam bhavissati) because his next rebirth will be in the form realm, where there is no painful experience, and he will attain nibbana in the form realm without returning to this world.

"A woman or a man should develop this liberation of mind by loving-kindness. A woman or a man cannot take this body with them when they go. Mortals have mind as their core"[2189] Cittantaro ayam bhikkhave macco. Mp: 'They have mind as their cause, or their interior is due to mind (cittakarano, atha va citten-eva antariko). For with the mind at rebirth that follows without interval the mind at death, one becomes a deva, a hell-being, or an animal.'


---

### Answer by username_3 on 2019-04-03. Score: 0

If after liberation rather that to find something to grasp on either:

It simply empathizes, approves, that what ever body/kaya/stand is taken on comes into being by deeds (kamma). Nothing that one should puzzle one thought into and and "end" up in papanca anyway.

The certain sequences deal also with cases where one still clings to a merely mental kaya, stand. That is why there is no final liberation at this point.

"Just" cetovimutti but try it, right here and now (Brahmavihara), rather to seek for another kaya. It's a Sublime host, that of the Brahma.

> ...it leads to **non-returning** for a **wise person here** who does not penetrate to a further liberation

*(Not given for trade, exchange, stacks but for getting independent from relations and bonds.)*


---

### Answer by username_4 on 2019-04-03. Score: -2

First, AN 10.219 appears to be fake dhamma because loving-kindness cannot end the suffering of birth, aging, illness & death. The following verse appears to be adhamma:

> What do you think, bhikkhus, if a youth were to develop the liberation
> of mind by loving-kindness from his childhood on, would he do a bad
> deed?”
>
> “No, Bhante.”
>
> “Could suffering affect him if he does no bad deed?” “No, Bhante. For
> on what account could suffering affect one who does no bad deed?”

However, about past kamma, AN 10.219 appears to correctly say:

> Bhikkhus, I do not say that there is a termination of volitional kamma
> that has been done and accumulated so long as one has not experienced
> its results, and that may be in the present moment, or in the near future,
> or on some subsequent occasion
>
> The noble disciple understands: ‘Whatever bad deed I did **here** in the
> past with this deed-born body is all to be experienced here. It will
> not follow along [into the future].’ When the liberation of mind by
> loving-kindness has been developed in this way, it leads to
> non-returning for a wise bhikkhu here who does not penetrate to a
> further liberation.
>
> This noble disciple, bhikkhus, who is thus devoid of longing, devoid
> of ill will, unconfused, clearly comprehending, ever mindful, dwells
> pervading one quarter with a mind imbued with compassion … with a mind
> imbued with altruistic joy … with a mind imbued with equanimity,
> likewise the second quarter, the third quarter, and the fourth
> quarter. Thus above, below, across, and everywhere, and to all as to
> himself, he dwells pervading the entire world with a mind imbued with
> equanimity, vast, exalted, measureless, without enmity, without ill
> will. He understands thus: ‘Previously, my mind was limited and
> undeveloped, but now it is measureless and well developed. No
> measurable kamma remains or persists there.’

In other words, the results of "past deeds" were experienced as the "five hindrances"; that we cleansed; per the below:

> And what is the nutriment for the five hindrances? You should say:
> ‘The three kinds of misconduct.’
>
> AN 10.61

What is correct in AN 10.219 is explained in [SN 12.37](https://suttacentral.net/sn12.37/en/bodhi) and SN 35.146:

> Bhikkhus, this group [of aggregates: "kaya"] is not yours, nor does it
> belong to others. This is old kamma, to be seen as mentally constructed by [past] volition, as something to be felt [in the
> present].

.............


---

