<p>From what I read in several sources, the straightness of the back is not as important as the intention of the meditator.
Here is where I was reading [CTRL F and insert "straight" in the search box]</p>

<p><a href="http://ask.sirimangalo.org/book" rel="nofollow">http://ask.sirimangalo.org/book</a></p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Hello!  The posture (straight back) is not so important as long as you
  are able to note the rising and falling of the stomach ! So next time
  you realise you are focusing on maintaining your posture remind
  yourself "distracted","distracted" or "sitting" ,"sitting" and bring
  your focus back on the rising and falling of the stomach.</p>
  
  <p>This should help you : <a href="http://www.sirimangalo.org/files/HTMa5s.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.sirimangalo.org/files/HTMa5s.pdf</a></p>
  
  <p>"Chapter 2: Sitting meditation</p>
  
  <p>The formal method for sitting meditation is as follows:</p>
  
  <p>We sit with the legs crossed if possible, with one leg in front of the
  other, or in any position which is comfortable as necessary.
  Traditionally, we sit with one hand on top of the other, palms up on
  our lap.
  3. We sit with our backs straight, although it is not necessary to have the back perfectly straight if this is uncomfortable; just as
  long as one is not bending over to the point where one is not able to
  experience the movements of the abdomen. We practice with the eyes
  closed. Since our focus is on the stomach, having the eyes open will
  only distract us away from our object of attention. Once we are in a
  suitable position, we simply send our 5 Please see illustration 41 in
  the appendix for two traditional sitting postures.mind out to the
  abdomen; when the abdomen rises, we simply say to ourselves, silently,
  in the mind, "rising". When the stomach falls, we say to ourselves,
  "falling". "Rising", "falling" "rising", "falling". "</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Seems like the Buddha may have seen some pride in the perfectly straight back and some dogged determination in the slumping monk.</p>

<p>Others say don't worry, meditate walking or standing on your head. Presence.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-09-29T07:03:42.237Z
Thanks, actually my main concern is whether this story really came from the Sutta.
fxam
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-01-25T19:02:50.617Z
I do not know for sure where this comes from. Sometimes I have to ask myself does it sound reasonable. If it makes sense in my life, then I add it to my practice or refine my practice with it. Then it is an experiment. If dharma grows it works. If not perhaps not. To me, the path is an experiment in consciousness. Like natural selection, what works builds a bridge to the next step. I think things can really happen this way. Progress is possible, not by lightning strikes but by the kind of effort one makes in walking a long distance.
soulsings
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-09-28T23:50:54.083Z
2014-09-28T23:50:54.083Z
soulsings
<p>I've heard Ajahn Brahm tell this story during a lecture which was recorded on YouTube, so I can confirm it's definitely told by him; however I don't remember which one it was.</p>
<p>The story is not (strictly) in the suttas. It is probably (very loosely) based on <a href="http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an06/an06.042.than.html" rel="noreferrer">AN 6.42</a>, and deals more with the disturbances of nearby lay life as opposed to the wilderness.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Nagita, there is the case where I see a monk sitting in concentration in a village dwelling. The thought occurs to me, 'Soon a monastery attendant will disturb this venerable one in some way, or a novice will, and rouse him from his concentration.' And so I am not pleased with that monk's village-dwelling.</p>
<p>But then there is the case where I see a monk sitting, nodding, in the wilderness. The thought occurs to me, 'Soon this venerable one will dispel his drowsiness &amp; fatigue and attend to the wilderness-perception, [his mind] unified.' And so I am pleased with that monk's wilderness-dwelling.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>So in this sutta it looks more like he's worried about the auspiciousness of the environment rather than the current condition in which a monk  dwells, and his being pleased is based on his assumption that the monk <em>will</em> soon generate right effort, and not that he'll be heedless.</p>
<p>However, I think it's important to stress that Ajahn Brahm's purpose for telling this story, regardless of where he had heard it, were probably that he has many lay followers which come to the practice with high expectations for quick results. He has to teach people how to give themselves some breathing space first - and that, I believe, he does very well.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-05-28T18:55:11.503Z
Thanks. Buddha it appears was telling people to leave him and his monks alone. I've seen this in other suttas as well, where the Buddha prefers solitude for his sleep, so much so, he drives out a snake from a shed than sleep with others.
Buddho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-10-29T13:15:04.123Z
2014-10-30T21:27:36.887Z
2020-06-17T09:56:10.877Z
Sadhana
<p>I'm trying to find a story in the Pali canon (or maybe not) reportedly told by Ajahn Brahm that goes like this (copied from <a href="http://wakeupandlaugh.com/2010/12/09/letting-go/" rel="nofollow">here</a>):</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Buddha was wandering along with Ananda when they came across a monk
  sitting under a tree in meditation. The monk was sat on the ground
  with a straight back, his hands were folded, and his head and neck at
  just the right angle. He was deep in meditation and had been for some
  time. The Buddha turned to Ananda and said “I’m worried about that
  monk.”</p>
  
  <p>A few minutes later they came across another monk sitting under a tree
  in meditation. He was on a comfy cushion, his back was bent forward
  and he’d fallen asleep. Every now and then he’d wake up only to nod
  off again. He was even snoring. The Buddha turned to Ananda and said
  “this monk I’m not worried about at all, he’s doing just fine.”</p>
</blockquote>

<p>I've been googling around but found nothing.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-09-28T21:47:29.763Z
I don't know about this one... It's uncharacteristic of the Buddha not only to worry, but also to use this kind of humour. For instance see the beginning of the Satipatthana Sutta: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.010.than.html
"There is the case where a monk — having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building — sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect and setting mindfulness to the fore. Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out...
Anthony
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-09-29T02:25:13.553Z
Considering it's given as a third hand account - what Brahmavamso supposedly said about what the Buddha supposedly said - I'm betting it lost something significant in the chain of retelling; i can't believe Brahmavamso would knowingly make up such a story, but this doesn't sound like any story that the scholarly Theravada monks here can think of.
yuttadhammo
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-09-29T03:30:29.290Z
@yuttadhammo & qweilun, I have similar doubt that's the reason I'm here to ask :)
fxam
<pali-canon><reference-request><meditation-posture>
Where is the story that Buddha was worried about a monk who meditated with a straight back?
# Where is the story that Buddha was worried about a monk who meditated with a straight back?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-09-28)

I'm trying to find a story in the Pali canon (or maybe not) reportedly told by Ajahn Brahm that goes like this (copied from [here](http://wakeupandlaugh.com/2010/12/09/letting-go/)):

> Buddha was wandering along with Ananda when they came across a monk
> sitting under a tree in meditation. The monk was sat on the ground
> with a straight back, his hands were folded, and his head and neck at
> just the right angle. He was deep in meditation and had been for some
> time. The Buddha turned to Ananda and said “I’m worried about that
> monk.”
>
> A few minutes later they came across another monk sitting under a tree
> in meditation. He was on a comfy cushion, his back was bent forward
> and he’d fallen asleep. Every now and then he’d wake up only to nod
> off again. He was even snoring. The Buddha turned to Ananda and said
> “this monk I’m not worried about at all, he’s doing just fine.”

I've been googling around but found nothing.

**Tags:** pali-canon, reference-request, meditation-posture

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I don't know about this one... It's uncharacteristic of the Buddha not only to worry, but also to use this kind of humour. For instance see the beginning of the Satipatthana Sutta: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.010.than.html "There is the case where a monk — having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building — sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect and setting mindfulness to the fore. Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out...  
> **username_2**: Considering it's given as a third hand account - what Brahmavamso supposedly said about what the Buddha supposedly said - I'm betting it lost something significant in the chain of retelling; i can't believe Brahmavamso would knowingly make up such a story, but this doesn't sound like any story that the scholarly Theravada monks here can think of.  
> **username_0**: @username_2 & qweilun, I have similar doubt that's the reason I'm here to ask :)  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2014-10-29. Score: 10 | Accepted answer

I've heard Ajahn Brahm tell this story during a lecture which was recorded on YouTube, so I can confirm it's definitely told by him; however I don't remember which one it was.

The story is not (strictly) in the suttas. It is probably (very loosely) based on [AN 6.42](http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an06/an06.042.than.html), and deals more with the disturbances of nearby lay life as opposed to the wilderness.

> Nagita, there is the case where I see a monk sitting in concentration in a village dwelling. The thought occurs to me, 'Soon a monastery attendant will disturb this venerable one in some way, or a novice will, and rouse him from his concentration.' And so I am not pleased with that monk's village-dwelling.
>
> But then there is the case where I see a monk sitting, nodding, in the wilderness. The thought occurs to me, 'Soon this venerable one will dispel his drowsiness & fatigue and attend to the wilderness-perception, [his mind] unified.' And so I am pleased with that monk's wilderness-dwelling.

So in this sutta it looks more like he's worried about the auspiciousness of the environment rather than the current condition in which a monk dwells, and his being pleased is based on his assumption that the monk *will* soon generate right effort, and not that he'll be heedless.

However, I think it's important to stress that Ajahn Brahm's purpose for telling this story, regardless of where he had heard it, were probably that he has many lay followers which come to the practice with high expectations for quick results. He has to teach people how to give themselves some breathing space first - and that, I believe, he does very well.

> **Comments:**
> **username_5**: Thanks. Buddha it appears was telling people to leave him and his monks alone. I've seen this in other suttas as well, where the Buddha prefers solitude for his sleep, so much so, he drives out a snake from a shed than sleep with others.  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2014-09-28. Score: 2

From what I read in several sources, the straightness of the back is not as important as the intention of the meditator.
Here is where I was reading [CTRL F and insert "straight" in the search box]

<http://ask.sirimangalo.org/book>

> Hello! The posture (straight back) is not so important as long as you
> are able to note the rising and falling of the stomach ! So next time
> you realise you are focusing on maintaining your posture remind
> yourself "distracted","distracted" or "sitting" ,"sitting" and bring
> your focus back on the rising and falling of the stomach.
>
> This should help you : <http://www.sirimangalo.org/files/HTMa5s.pdf>
>
> "Chapter 2: Sitting meditation
>
> The formal method for sitting meditation is as follows:
>
> We sit with the legs crossed if possible, with one leg in front of the
> other, or in any position which is comfortable as necessary.
> Traditionally, we sit with one hand on top of the other, palms up on
> our lap.
> 3. We sit with our backs straight, although it is not necessary to have the back perfectly straight if this is uncomfortable; just as
> long as one is not bending over to the point where one is not able to
> experience the movements of the abdomen. We practice with the eyes
> closed. Since our focus is on the stomach, having the eyes open will
> only distract us away from our object of attention. Once we are in a
> suitable position, we simply send our 5 Please see illustration 41 in
> the appendix for two traditional sitting postures.mind out to the
> abdomen; when the abdomen rises, we simply say to ourselves, silently,
> in the mind, "rising". When the stomach falls, we say to ourselves,
> "falling". "Rising", "falling" "rising", "falling". "

Seems like the Buddha may have seen some pride in the perfectly straight back and some dogged determination in the slumping monk.

Others say don't worry, meditate walking or standing on your head. Presence.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks, actually my main concern is whether this story really came from the Sutta.  
> **username_3**: I do not know for sure where this comes from. Sometimes I have to ask myself does it sound reasonable. If it makes sense in my life, then I add it to my practice or refine my practice with it. Then it is an experiment. If dharma grows it works. If not perhaps not. To me, the path is an experiment in consciousness. Like natural selection, what works builds a bridge to the next step. I think things can really happen this way. Progress is possible, not by lightning strikes but by the kind of effort one makes in walking a long distance.  

---

