<p>The counters don't technically move¹, but <strong>the same amount of counters are put on another creature.</strong></p>
<p>When cards mention power without explicitly mentioning &quot;base power&quot;, it always means the actual power of the creature, taking into account all +1/+1 counters, static buffs, and of course base power (the same is true for toughness respectively, of course).</p>
<p>This is also indicated in <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Death%27s%20Presence">Death&#39;s Presence</a>'s oracle text:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>X is the power of that creature as it last existed on the battlefield.</p>
</blockquote>
<hr />
<p>¹ The reason I mention that counters don't technically move is that for a 2/2 creature with two +1/+1 counters, you'd still place four counters on the target creature with Death's Presence, not two - phrasing it as &quot;moving counters&quot; might be confusing in this regard. There are cards in magic that actually move counters, such as <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bioshift">Bioshift</a>, and in case of this example creature, they would only put two counters on the target creature.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-07-29T02:55:45.590Z
Another way in way in which the move/create distinction matters is if it were "move", then it wouldn't be as clear as to whether it counts for Doubling Season.
Acccumulation
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-07-28T18:33:28.443Z
2022-07-28T18:33:28.443Z
TheThirdMan
<p>If I have <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Death%27s%20Presence">Death&#39;s Presence</a> on the field, which says</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Whenever a creature you control dies, put X +1/+1 counters on target creature you control, where X is the power of the creature that died.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>...and a creature I control with base power toughness 0/0 and 4 +1/+1 counters on it dies, do those counters then move because of Death's Presence, or does Death's Presence only take into account the base power?</p>

<magic-the-gathering>
Does Death's Presence check base power or actual power of a creature?
Isaac Campbell
# Does Death's Presence check base power or actual power of a creature?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2022-07-28)

If I have [Death's Presence](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Death%27s%20Presence) on the field, which says

> Whenever a creature you control dies, put X +1/+1 counters on target creature you control, where X is the power of the creature that died.

...and a creature I control with base power toughness 0/0 and 4 +1/+1 counters on it dies, do those counters then move because of Death's Presence, or does Death's Presence only take into account the base power?

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering


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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2022-07-28. Score: 6

The counters don't technically move¹, but **the same amount of counters are put on another creature.**

When cards mention power without explicitly mentioning "base power", it always means the actual power of the creature, taking into account all +1/+1 counters, static buffs, and of course base power (the same is true for toughness respectively, of course).

This is also indicated in [Death's Presence](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Death%27s%20Presence)'s oracle text:

> X is the power of that creature as it last existed on the battlefield.

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¹ The reason I mention that counters don't technically move is that for a 2/2 creature with two +1/+1 counters, you'd still place four counters on the target creature with Death's Presence, not two - phrasing it as "moving counters" might be confusing in this regard. There are cards in magic that actually move counters, such as [Bioshift](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bioshift), and in case of this example creature, they would only put two counters on the target creature.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: Another way in way in which the move/create distinction matters is if it were "move", then it wouldn't be as clear as to whether it counts for Doubling Season.  

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