<p>The point is, that in this situation</p>

<pre><code>$$c
$$ --------------------
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . X . c W . . . .
$$ -. . . X b B . . . X
$$ -. . . X W d . . . .
$$ -. . O O a . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . X . . . . . ,
</code></pre>

<p>the moves at <code>b</code> and <code>c</code> are miai: Either white allows black to connect solidly at <code>b</code>, or white moves at <code>b</code> themselves. In that case, black can still take <code>c</code>, yielding this situation:</p>

<pre><code>$$c
$$ --------------------
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . X . X O . . . .
$$ -. . . X W B e . . X
$$ -. . . X W . . . . .
$$ -. . O O . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . X . . . . . ,
</code></pre>

<p>Now white cannot capture the black cutting stone in a ladder by playing at <code>e</code>, because the two white stones lack a liberty, breaking the ladder in favor of black. The cutting stone at <code>E17</code> is safe as well, so there is no way that white can connect up.</p>

<p>Also, a black follow-up at <code>E14</code> is dangerous for white, so white will need to invest another move to either protect that cut, or make it irrelevant. I'm not sure which move would be the best continuation for white, but that consideration leaves the scope of this question anyway.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-05-30T11:51:02.437Z
2018-05-30T11:51:02.437Z
cmaster - reinstate monica
<p>It seems to me that playing 3 and 'a' cuts the E15 stone from the F17 stone.</p>

<pre><code>$$Bcm1
$$ +----------
$$ |..........
$$ |..........
$$ |..1..O....
$$ |...X75...X
$$ |...32.....
$$ |..O46.....
$$ |..........
$$ |..........
$$ |..........
$$ |...X.....,
</code></pre>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-25T21:22:43.973Z
You are evidently right, though White 6 at E16 or F15 are rather more complicated to refute. I have (perhaps a little unfairly) extended my question to also ask when this cutting pattern is preferable.
PJTraill
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-27T09:47:33.307Z
Spot on that white cannot easily connect. As a side note if this actually happens in a game, I don't imagine w playing 6 in the diagram, as it will remove all options w could have with E16 at some point (now or in the future), probably tenuki is better. Black's 7 seems better at G16 or G17 maybe, to avoid white's good shape move in that area.
mafu
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-25T18:40:34.207Z
2018-04-25T20:30:41.693Z
2018-04-25T20:30:41.693Z
Daniel T.
<p>In <em>38 Basic Joseki</em>, Kosugi &amp; Davies remark in this position:</p>

<pre><code>$$c
$$ --------------------
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . 1 . . O . . . .
$$ -. . . X . a . . . X
$$ -. . . 3 2 6 . . . .
$$ -. . O 4 5 . . . . .
$$ -. . . . 7 . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . X . . . . . ,
</code></pre>

<p>that if White blocks at <strong>2</strong>, Black will push and cut with <strong>3</strong> and <strong>5</strong> <em>or <strong>3</strong> and <strong>a</strong></em>.</p>

<p>I cannot see how one is meant to cut with <strong>3</strong> and <strong>a</strong> in this situation.
I have not found this in <em>Ishida</em>, or on Josekipedia (though someone has asked <a href="http://www.josekipedia.com/#path:pdqfpjncqcoepepfnd" rel="nofollow noreferrer">a question about <strong>a</strong></a>) or in Sensei’s Library; though with this severely pruned search pattern (only shaded points sought):</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/LaEg1.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/LaEg1.png" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p>there were some matches (to which the “a” refers), but nothing useful that I could see.</p>

<h2>Questions</h2>

<ul>
<li>Is this a misprint, or how is one meant to cut with <strong>3</strong> and <strong>a</strong>?</li>
<li>When is this preferable?</li>
<li>What continuations are there, and are they joseki?</li>
</ul>

<h2>Follow-up</h2>

<p>I am not sure what I can have thought (though I expected <strong>a</strong> to be an answer to a different White <strong>4</strong>, rather than achieving a different objective), but now I think I see, as <a href="https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/users/22965/daniel-t">Daniel T</a> says in <a href="https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/a/42050/14474">his answer</a> that the marked white stones <em>are</em> separated:</p>

<pre><code>$$c
$$ --------------------
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . X . c W . . . .
$$ -. . . X b B . . . X
$$ -. . . X W d . . . .
$$ -. . O O a . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . X . . . . . ,
</code></pre>

<p>He shows W@<strong>a</strong>–B@<strong>b</strong>, but W <strong>b</strong> and <strong>d</strong> also seem to fail, with a shaky ladder and too many cuts respectively. I still do not see when this is good; maybe the issue is which 6-3 stone B wants to separate 5-5 from, but he could just push <strong>3</strong> in the other direction.</p>

<go><joseki>
What is this alternate cut after 3-3 against double keima round hoshi?
PJTraill
# What is this alternate cut after 3-3 against double keima round hoshi?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-04-25)

In 38 Basic Joseki, Kosugi & Davies remark in this position:
$$c
$$ --------------------
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . 1 . . O . . . .
$$ -. . . X . a . . . X
$$ -. . . 3 2 6 . . . .
$$ -. . O 4 5 . . . . .
$$ -. . . . 7 . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . X . . . . . ,

that if White blocks at 2, Black will push and cut with 3 and 5 or 3 and a.
I cannot see how one is meant to cut with 3 and a in this situation.
I have not found this in Ishida, or on Josekipedia (though someone has asked a question about a) or in Sensei’s Library; though with this severely pruned search pattern (only shaded points sought):

there were some matches (to which the “a” refers), but nothing useful that I could see.
Questions

Is this a misprint, or how is one meant to cut with 3 and a?
When is this preferable?
What continuations are there, and are they joseki?

Follow-up
I am not sure what I can have thought (though I expected a to be an answer to a different White 4, rather than achieving a different objective), but now I think I see, as Daniel T says in his answer that the marked white stones are separated:
$$c
$$ --------------------
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . X . c W . . . .
$$ -. . . X b B . . . X
$$ -. . . X W d . . . .
$$ -. . O O a . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . X . . . . . ,

He shows W@a–B@b, but W b and d also seem to fail, with a shaky ladder and too many cuts respectively. I still do not see when this is good; maybe the issue is which 6-3 stone B wants to separate 5-5 from, but he could just push 3 in the other direction.

**Tags:** go, joseki


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## 2 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2018-05-30. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

The point is, that in this situation
$$c
$$ --------------------
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . X . c W . . . .
$$ -. . . X b B . . . X
$$ -. . . X W d . . . .
$$ -. . O O a . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . X . . . . . ,

the moves at b and c are miai: Either white allows black to connect solidly at b, or white moves at b themselves. In that case, black can still take c, yielding this situation:
$$c
$$ --------------------
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . X . X O . . . .
$$ -. . . X W B e . . X
$$ -. . . X W . . . . .
$$ -. . O O . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . . . . . . . .
$$ -. . . X . . . . . ,

Now white cannot capture the black cutting stone in a ladder by playing at e, because the two white stones lack a liberty, breaking the ladder in favor of black. The cutting stone at E17 is safe as well, so there is no way that white can connect up.
Also, a black follow-up at E14 is dangerous for white, so white will need to invest another move to either protect that cut, or make it irrelevant. I'm not sure which move would be the best continuation for white, but that consideration leaves the scope of this question anyway.


---

### Answer by username_2 on 2018-04-25. Score: 4

It seems to me that playing 3 and 'a' cuts the E15 stone from the F17 stone.
$$Bcm1
$$ +----------
$$ |..........
$$ |..........
$$ |..1..O....
$$ |...X75...X
$$ |...32.....
$$ |..O46.....
$$ |..........
$$ |..........
$$ |..........
$$ |...X.....,

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: You are evidently right, though White 6 at E16 or F15 are rather more complicated to refute. I have (perhaps a little unfairly) extended my question to also ask when this cutting pattern is preferable.  
> **username_3**: Spot on that white cannot easily connect. As a side note if this actually happens in a game, I don't imagine w playing 6 in the diagram, as it will remove all options w could have with E16 at some point (now or in the future), probably tenuki is better. Black's 7 seems better at G16 or G17 maybe, to avoid white's good shape move in that area.  

---

