<p>Yes. When a card refers to any creature's power or toughness, it always means the creature's current power or toughness, not what is printed on the card. This includes any +1/+1, -1/-1 or other counters that modify power and toughness; any equipment or enchantments attached to the creature that modify power and/or toughness, and any effects from cards such as <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Giant%20Growth">Giant Growth</a>, <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glorious%20Anthem">Glorious Anthem</a>, or <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bile%20Blight">Bile Blight</a>.</p>
<p>Note that damage on a creature does <em>not</em> change its toughness.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-10-09T15:06:17.853Z
2014-10-09T15:06:17.853Z
Marq
<p>+1/+1 counters count for power and toughness. The power and toughness of a creature are modified by counters in Layer 7. You can also change the P/T with other spells, such as <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Giant%20Growth">Giant Growth</a>. Giant growth is also applied in Layer 7.</p>
<p>It's hard to explain in a few sentences, but more info about the layer system is explained in <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150916173223/http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=judge/article/20091105a" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this article</a>.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-10-09T13:48:04.840Z
You do not need to know about layers to answer this question. All you need to know is that power means power, not base power.
Cascabel
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-10-09T13:54:03.197Z
P/T on its own is not a CDA, it's simply a characteristic. Some creatures _have_ a CDA that defines its P/T (the various goyfs, for example), but that doesn't make P/T a CDA in the general case.
Brian S
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-10-09T15:26:49.320Z
Counters are still applied in Layer 7, despite not being a CDA. I should be able to clean this answer up a bit. Oh, and Giant Growth happens to be applied in the same layer (Layer 7), so I fixed that too.
Rainbolt
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-10-09T16:29:37.847Z
@Jefromi You do need to know about layers if the creature in question is an Ogre. Because Ogres are like onions: they have layers.
corsiKa
CC BY-SA 4.0
2014-10-09T09:49:33.833Z
2022-06-15T16:00:31.293Z
2022-06-15T16:00:31.293Z
Ivo Geersen
<p>Suppose <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=366233" rel="nofollow">Predator's Rapport</a>'s target has counters (for example, a few +1/+1 counters). Do the counters count when calculating the gained life? I thought power and toughness do not change after adding counters.</p>

<magic-the-gathering>
Predator's Rapport and counters
June Kim
# Predator's Rapport and counters

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-10-09)

Suppose [Predator's Rapport](http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=366233)'s target has counters (for example, a few +1/+1 counters). Do the counters count when calculating the gained life? I thought power and toughness do not change after adding counters.

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering


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## 2 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2014-10-09. Score: 6

Yes. When a card refers to any creature's power or toughness, it always means the creature's current power or toughness, not what is printed on the card. This includes any +1/+1, -1/-1 or other counters that modify power and toughness; any equipment or enchantments attached to the creature that modify power and/or toughness, and any effects from cards such as [Giant Growth](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Giant%20Growth), [Glorious Anthem](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glorious%20Anthem), or [Bile Blight](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bile%20Blight).

Note that damage on a creature does *not* change its toughness.


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### Answer by username_2 on 2014-10-09. Score: 1

+1/+1 counters count for power and toughness. The power and toughness of a creature are modified by counters in Layer 7. You can also change the P/T with other spells, such as [Giant Growth](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Giant%20Growth). Giant growth is also applied in Layer 7.

It's hard to explain in a few sentences, but more info about the layer system is explained in [this article](https://web.archive.org/web/20150916173223/http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=judge/article/20091105a).

> **Comments:**
> **username_3**: You do not need to know about layers to answer this question. All you need to know is that power means power, not base power.  
> **username_4**: P/T on its own is not a CDA, it's simply a characteristic. Some creatures _have_ a CDA that defines its P/T (the various goyfs, for example), but that doesn't make P/T a CDA in the general case.  
> **username_5**: Counters are still applied in Layer 7, despite not being a CDA. I should be able to clean this answer up a bit. Oh, and Giant Growth happens to be applied in the same layer (Layer 7), so I fixed that too.  
> **username_6**: @Jefromi You do need to know about layers if the creature in question is an Ogre. Because Ogres are like onions: they have layers.  

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