<p>To answer the first half of the question:</p>
<ul>
<li>Which of the three road pieces would be considered valid placements for the meeple?</li>
</ul>
<blockquote>
<p>(<em>cited from the Complete Annotated Rules ver 7.4 pages 142-143 available <a href="https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/87531/carcassonne-standard-complete-annotated-rules" rel="noreferrer">here</a></em>)</p>
<p>Alternatively, the player may place a follower as a flier on a flying machine symbol to get the follower in the game.[378][379]  The flying machine symbol has an arrow showing the direction (horizontally, vertically, or diagonally) in which the follower will fly.  Now the player rolls the die.  The die result is the distance that the follower will fly (1 to 3 tiles in a straight line).</p>
<p>If possible, the follower <strong>must</strong> be placed on the resulting landscape tile representing the end of the flight.  The active player can choose which feature to place the follower on.  However, the following rules must be followed:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>The follower must only be deployed to an <strong>unfinished</strong>[380] structure (road, city, or cloister). [381][382][383][384]</p>
</li>
<li><p>The follower may be placed on a feature that is unoccupied[385] or already <strong>occupied</strong> (either by one's own follower or an opposing follower).</p>
</li>
<li><p>The follower <strong>may not be placed on a field segment</strong>, even if there is not a farmer on the field already.</p>
</li>
<li><p>The follower may not be placed in a location where <strong>no landscape tile</strong> is located.</p>
</li>
</ul>
</blockquote>
<p>Further:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>(<em>cited from the Complete Annotated Rules ver 7.4 page 136</em>)</p>
<p>The ferry connects the ends of the road to form a continuous road.  A road segment without a ferry on a lake is closed at this end.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>According to your picture, at the time the road from the lake to the city is considered to be complete at the time and as such the flier could not be placed there.  The remaining two segments which each have the ferry attached are legal locations to put the flier.</p>
<p>(<em>It is worth mentioning that if the die roll had instead been a 1 or a 2, that there would be no legal placement and the follower returned to your supply.  As it is pictured, I would have instead simply occupied the road instead of using the flying machine or I would have tried placing the flying machine somewhere else.</em>)</p>
<hr />
<ul>
<li>Can the yellow player move the ferry?</li>
</ul>
<blockquote>
<p>(<em>cited from the Complete Annotated Rules ver 7.4 page 137</em>)</p>
<p>If a player places his landscape tile and extends a road that includes a ferry,[364] the player <strong>may</strong> move the ferry, but he or she is not required to do so.  The ferry must always connect 2 road ends.  The player may move the ferry such that it no longer connects to the road that has just been extended.  If there are two ferries on the road that was just extended, the player may only move the first ferry in the road - the ferry that is closest to the tile that was just placed.[365]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It continues to read:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The sequence of actions relating to lakes and ferries:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Place (lake) tile</p>
</li>
<li><p>Place follower</p>
</li>
<li><p>Place ferry (if new lake tile placed)[366]</p>
</li>
<li><p>Move ferries on other lakes (if placed tile extends a ferry road)[367]</p>
</li>
<li><p>Score features (if needed)</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p>[364] The road must include a wooden ferry to allow movement of that ferry in this situation.  Thus if adding onto a road that ends at a lake <strong>without</strong> the wooden ferry connect, the ferry <strong>cannot</strong> be moved.</p>
<p>[366] The RGG version of the rules incorrectly adds &quot;if he placed a follower on the road&quot; here, even though there is no such stipulation in the body of the rules.</p>
<p>[367] The RGG version of the rules incorrectly adds the requirement &quot;if he placed a follower on the road&quot; here, even though there is no such stipulation in the body of the rules.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>It is my understanding then that the only reason why you will ever move a ferrry is because of the road connected to the ferry extending through the addition of a landscape tile that connects to the road.  As the tile placed in the turn in question did not in fact extend the road connected to the lake, the ferry may not be moved.  Nowhere does it mention that having placed a follower on the road (but not extending the road) will allow the ferry to be moved.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-07-27T17:40:48.067Z
2015-07-28T18:38:14.197Z
2020-06-17T09:01:24.697Z
JMoravitz
<p>While I understand @JMoravitz his interpretation (and fully agree on the first part), I think it would be possible to see the placement of a follower onto the lake tile as part of this sequence of actions:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>The sequence of actions relating to lakes and ferries:</p>
  
  <ol>
  <li>Place (lake) tile</li>
  <li>Place follower</li>
  <li>Place ferry (if new lake tile placed)</li>
  <li>Move ferries on other lakes (if placed tile extends a ferry road)</li>
  <li>Score features (if needed)</li>
  </ol>
</blockquote>

<p>Where you basically start at step 2, because step 1 was done by someone else. If that is the case, you could still move(/place) the ferry.</p>

<p>The only reason I think this might be a valid interpretation, is because of the ambiguous wording "sequence of actions relating to lakes and ferries".</p>

<p>On a side note, the excessive wording in the annotated rules seem to overfit for known scenarios and therefore force unknown scenarios into directions that might not have been intentional.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-07-28T18:34:54.247Z
It is my understanding that it is the extension of the road connected to the ferry that triggers the option to move an already existing ferry.  In the sequence of actions cited above, the triggers are in parenthesis, so you carry out 3. Place ferry *only if a new lake tile is placed* and you carry out 4. Move ferries on other lakes *only if placed tile extends a ferry road*.  It is possible that the flying machine tile itself extends the road in which case you could move the ferry, and it seems to me that the sequence of events would be to launch your follower before moving the ferry.
JMoravitz
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-07-28T19:39:54.863Z
See that too is interpretation. At step 1,  the parentheses are used in an entirely different way. Of course, you are probably entirely correct. Just wanted to put this interpretation out there, as it is the main reason I can't make sense of the sturation.
freekvd
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-07-28T08:40:10.133Z
2015-07-28T08:40:10.133Z
freekvd
<p>Today we were playing Carcassonne with two of the mini expansions, Flying Machines and Ferries. The following situation occured:</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/mXY3j.jpg" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/mXY3j.jpg" alt="Flying Meeple"></a></p>

<p>The yellow player is launching one of his meeple from the bottom left corner and rolled a 3. This puts him on the ferry piece. The ferry is connecting the bottom and left sides of the lake.</p>

<p>The questions we had now, are these:</p>

<ul>
<li>Which of the three road pieces would be considered valid placement for the meeple?</li>
<li>Can the yellow player move the ferry?</li>
</ul>

<carcassonne>
Carcassonne Flying Machines + Ferries
freekvd
# Carcassonne Flying Machines + Ferries

(Asked by: username_0 on 2015-07-26)

Today we were playing Carcassonne with two of the mini expansions, Flying Machines and Ferries. The following situation occured:

[![Flying Meeple](https://i.sstatic.net/mXY3j.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/mXY3j.jpg)

The yellow player is launching one of his meeple from the bottom left corner and rolled a 3. This puts him on the ferry piece. The ferry is connecting the bottom and left sides of the lake.

The questions we had now, are these:

* Which of the three road pieces would be considered valid placement for the meeple?
* Can the yellow player move the ferry?

**Tags:** carcassonne


---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2015-07-27. Score: 7 | Accepted answer

To answer the first half of the question:

* Which of the three road pieces would be considered valid placements for the meeple?

> (*cited from the Complete Annotated Rules ver 7.4 pages 142-143 available [here](https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/87531/carcassonne-standard-complete-annotated-rules)*)
>
> Alternatively, the player may place a follower as a flier on a flying machine symbol to get the follower in the game.[378][379] The flying machine symbol has an arrow showing the direction (horizontally, vertically, or diagonally) in which the follower will fly. Now the player rolls the die. The die result is the distance that the follower will fly (1 to 3 tiles in a straight line).
>
> If possible, the follower **must** be placed on the resulting landscape tile representing the end of the flight. The active player can choose which feature to place the follower on. However, the following rules must be followed:
>
> * The follower must only be deployed to an **unfinished**[380] structure (road, city, or cloister). [381][382][383][384]
> * The follower may be placed on a feature that is unoccupied[385] or already **occupied** (either by one's own follower or an opposing follower).
> * The follower **may not be placed on a field segment**, even if there is not a farmer on the field already.
> * The follower may not be placed in a location where **no landscape tile** is located.

Further:

> (*cited from the Complete Annotated Rules ver 7.4 page 136*)
>
> The ferry connects the ends of the road to form a continuous road. A road segment without a ferry on a lake is closed at this end.

According to your picture, at the time the road from the lake to the city is considered to be complete at the time and as such the flier could not be placed there. The remaining two segments which each have the ferry attached are legal locations to put the flier.

(*It is worth mentioning that if the die roll had instead been a 1 or a 2, that there would be no legal placement and the follower returned to your supply. As it is pictured, I would have instead simply occupied the road instead of using the flying machine or I would have tried placing the flying machine somewhere else.*)

---

* Can the yellow player move the ferry?

> (*cited from the Complete Annotated Rules ver 7.4 page 137*)
>
> If a player places his landscape tile and extends a road that includes a ferry,[364] the player **may** move the ferry, but he or she is not required to do so. The ferry must always connect 2 road ends. The player may move the ferry such that it no longer connects to the road that has just been extended. If there are two ferries on the road that was just extended, the player may only move the first ferry in the road - the ferry that is closest to the tile that was just placed.[365]

It continues to read:

> The sequence of actions relating to lakes and ferries:
>
> 1. Place (lake) tile
> 2. Place follower
> 3. Place ferry (if new lake tile placed)[366]
> 4. Move ferries on other lakes (if placed tile extends a ferry road)[367]
> 5. Score features (if needed)
>
> [364] The road must include a wooden ferry to allow movement of that ferry in this situation. Thus if adding onto a road that ends at a lake **without** the wooden ferry connect, the ferry **cannot** be moved.
>
> [366] The RGG version of the rules incorrectly adds "if he placed a follower on the road" here, even though there is no such stipulation in the body of the rules.
>
> [367] The RGG version of the rules incorrectly adds the requirement "if he placed a follower on the road" here, even though there is no such stipulation in the body of the rules.

It is my understanding then that the only reason why you will ever move a ferrry is because of the road connected to the ferry extending through the addition of a landscape tile that connects to the road. As the tile placed in the turn in question did not in fact extend the road connected to the lake, the ferry may not be moved. Nowhere does it mention that having placed a follower on the road (but not extending the road) will allow the ferry to be moved.


---

### Answer by username_0 on 2015-07-28. Score: 1

While I understand @username_1 his interpretation (and fully agree on the first part), I think it would be possible to see the placement of a follower onto the lake tile as part of this sequence of actions:

> The sequence of actions relating to lakes and ferries:
>
> 1. Place (lake) tile
> 2. Place follower
> 3. Place ferry (if new lake tile placed)
> 4. Move ferries on other lakes (if placed tile extends a ferry road)
> 5. Score features (if needed)

Where you basically start at step 2, because step 1 was done by someone else. If that is the case, you could still move(/place) the ferry.

The only reason I think this might be a valid interpretation, is because of the ambiguous wording "sequence of actions relating to lakes and ferries".

On a side note, the excessive wording in the annotated rules seem to overfit for known scenarios and therefore force unknown scenarios into directions that might not have been intentional.

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: It is my understanding that it is the extension of the road connected to the ferry that triggers the option to move an already existing ferry.  In the sequence of actions cited above, the triggers are in parenthesis, so you carry out 3. Place ferry *only if a new lake tile is placed* and you carry out 4. Move ferries on other lakes *only if placed tile extends a ferry road*.  It is possible that the flying machine tile itself extends the road in which case you could move the ferry, and it seems to me that the sequence of events would be to launch your follower before moving the ferry.  
> **username_0**: See that too is interpretation. At step 1,  the parentheses are used in an entirely different way. Of course, you are probably entirely correct. Just wanted to put this interpretation out there, as it is the main reason I can't make sense of the sturation.  

---

