<p><a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bPithing%20Needle%5d">Pithing Needle</a> would <em>always</em> nullify the planeswalker's loyalty abilities.</p>

<p>According to rule 306.5d of the November 11, 2016 edition of the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules, loyalty abilities are activated abilities that (typically) do not produce mana.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>306.5d Each planeswalker has a number of loyalty abilities, <strong>which are activated abilities with
  loyalty symbols in their costs</strong>. Loyalty abilities follow special rules: A player may activate a
  loyalty ability of a permanent he or she controls any time he or she has priority and the stack is
  empty during a main phase of his or her turn, but only if none of that permanent’s loyalty
  abilities have been activated that turn. See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”</p>
</blockquote>

<p>And this is echoed in rule 606.2 of the same compendium.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>606.2. <strong>An activated ability with a loyalty symbol in its cost is a loyalty ability.</strong> Normally, only
  planeswalkers have loyalty abilities</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Additionally, as Jefromi pointed out, loyalty abilities are never mana abilities according to rule 605.1a</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn’t have a
  target, it could put mana into a player’s mana pool when it resolves, <strong><em>and</em> it’s not a loyalty
  ability.</strong> (See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”) </p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-18T02:09:26.097Z
Clarification: a "mana ability" is a specific kind of ability that _generates_ mana, not one that costs mana (there are additional restrictions as well).
Alex P
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-18T02:12:43.153Z
The restrictions on mana abilities explicitly include this: "605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn’t have a target, it could put mana into a player’s mana pool when it resolves, and **it’s not a loyalty ability**. (See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”)" There are loyalty abilities that produce mana, like [Chandra, Torch of Defiance](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=417683) or [Xenagos, the Reveler](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=373502) but they're not mana abilities.
Cascabel
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-18T02:17:31.373Z
I'm confused how you reached that final conclusion. Loyalty abilities, as you said, are definitely activated abilities, just a special kind that planeswalkers have. And they're never mana abilities, so Pithing Needle will always work on them.
Cascabel
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-18T02:19:18.317Z
@Jefromi I've been up for 14 hours, and apparently it shows. ;P
Cyberson
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-18T02:06:08.397Z
2016-11-18T12:09:19.087Z
2016-11-18T12:09:19.087Z
Cyberson
<p>In doing research on how to counter activated abilities (See <a href="https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/33053/how-to-prevent-mana-activated-abilities">here</a>) I found the <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bPithing%20Needle%5d">Pithing Needle</a> and I wondered: do Loyalty Abilities count within the activated abilities targeted by Pithing Needle's text?</p>

<magic-the-gathering>
Would Loyalty Abilities be negated by Pithing Needle?
Cyberson
# Would Loyalty Abilities be negated by Pithing Needle?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-11-18)

In doing research on how to counter activated abilities (See [here](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/33053/how-to-prevent-mana-activated-abilities)) I found the [Pithing Needle](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bPithing%20Needle%5d) and I wondered: do Loyalty Abilities count within the activated abilities targeted by Pithing Needle's text?

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering


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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_0 on 2016-11-18. Score: 2 | Accepted answer

[Pithing Needle](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bPithing%20Needle%5d) would *always* nullify the planeswalker's loyalty abilities.

According to rule 306.5d of the November 11, 2016 edition of the Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules, loyalty abilities are activated abilities that (typically) do not produce mana.

> 306.5d Each planeswalker has a number of loyalty abilities, **which are activated abilities with
> loyalty symbols in their costs**. Loyalty abilities follow special rules: A player may activate a
> loyalty ability of a permanent he or she controls any time he or she has priority and the stack is
> empty during a main phase of his or her turn, but only if none of that permanent’s loyalty
> abilities have been activated that turn. See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”

And this is echoed in rule 606.2 of the same compendium.

> 606.2. **An activated ability with a loyalty symbol in its cost is a loyalty ability.** Normally, only
> planeswalkers have loyalty abilities

Additionally, as Jefromi pointed out, loyalty abilities are never mana abilities according to rule 605.1a

> 605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn’t have a
> target, it could put mana into a player’s mana pool when it resolves, ***and* it’s not a loyalty
> ability.** (See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”)

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Clarification: a "mana ability" is a specific kind of ability that _generates_ mana, not one that costs mana (there are additional restrictions as well).  
> **username_2**: The restrictions on mana abilities explicitly include this: "605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets all of the following criteria: it doesn’t have a target, it could put mana into a player’s mana pool when it resolves, and **it’s not a loyalty ability**. (See rule 606, “Loyalty Abilities.”)" There are loyalty abilities that produce mana, like [Chandra, Torch of Defiance](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=417683) or [Xenagos, the Reveler](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=373502) but they're not mana abilities.  
> **username_2**: I'm confused how you reached that final conclusion. Loyalty abilities, as you said, are definitely activated abilities, just a special kind that planeswalkers have. And they're never mana abilities, so Pithing Needle will always work on them.  
> **username_0**: @Jefromi I've been up for 14 hours, and apparently it shows. ;P  

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