<p>Casting <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hangarback%20Walker">Hangarback Walker</a> for 0, and it will enter the battlefield with zero +1/+1 counters. Since <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hardened%20Scales">Hardened Scales</a> requires &quot;one or more&quot; +1/+1 counters to be put on the permanent to trigger the replacement effect, <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hardened%20Scales">Hardened Scales</a> won't trigger. <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hangarback%20Walker">Hangarback Walker</a> will Enter the Battlefield as a 0/0, and die due to state based Actions.</p>
<p>If you want to play <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hangarback%20Walker">Hangarback Walker</a> for free, there are options:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Have a permanent in play that provides an anthem effect to your creatures of at least +0/+1.</p>
</li>
<li><p>Have it enter with a +1/+1 counter for Free. <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zameck%20Guildmage">Zameck Guildmage</a> or <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20Biomancer">Master Biomancer</a>.</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p>Graft is not an option. Though the triggered effect of the creature will happen, state based actions will kill the 0/0 <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hangarback%20Walker">Hangarback Walker</a> before the trigger can be placed on the stack.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-03T05:54:38.190Z
While relevant, this is tangential and not actually answering the question.
doppelgreener
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-08T16:10:07.743Z
Actually, he answered the question and then provided additional relevant "tangential" information.  Nothing wrong with that.  Going on a tangent myself, the answer wasn't any different than the preceding answer and the additional info should, IMHO, just have been added as a comment to the accepted answer.
Steve Mangiameli
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-08T19:08:00.553Z
The answer was initially solely tangential, to provide the effect desired by the Question. It was than edited to address the specific question asked.
Drunk Cynic
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-03T04:18:32.423Z
2015-12-03T06:14:42.670Z
2015-12-03T06:14:42.670Z
Drunk Cynic
<p>I would just like to add to Steven Stadnicki's answer that even if it was a triggered ability that put counters on creatures when they enter the battlefield it still will not work. </p>

<p>State base actions would see a creature with zero toughness and it would be put in the graveyard before the triggered ability gets a chance to put any counters on it.</p>

<p>So lets say for instance instead of the scales you had <a href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=397697" rel="nofollow">Aquastrand Spider</a> it still would not work for the reason I stated.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-03T17:23:52.313Z
This is tangential, and doesn't actually answer the question.
murgatroid99
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-03T21:08:58.760Z
Ability is triggered, but it isn't put on the stack.
Drunk Cynic
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-01-28T17:32:39.513Z
Notice that Hardened Scales effect is not a triggered ability but a static replacement effect.
sinsedrix
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-03T17:09:40.650Z
2015-12-03T17:09:40.650Z
Neil Meyer
<p>No, and for a very straightforward reason: Hardened Scales requires that <em>at least</em> one counter be placed on the creature before it adds any additional counters:</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/06tHJ.png" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/06tHJ.png" alt="Hardened Scales"></a></p>

<p>The key text here is 'If <em>one or more</em>'.  You're trying to put zero counters on the Hangarback Walker, and so Hardened Scales never processes.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-03T02:12:01.387Z
Oh! Thank you, I guess I wasn't paying attention to the full ability.
Erik
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-03T02:06:22.850Z
2015-12-03T02:06:22.850Z
Steven Stadnicki
<p>I'm building a deck with <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hangarback%20Walker">Hangarback Walker</a> and <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hardened%20Scales">Hardened Scales</a>, and I was wondering if I could cast Hangarback for X=0, and it would activate Hardened Scales. Just a thought.</p>

<magic-the-gathering>
Can you cast Hangarback Walker for X=0 and have it survive with Hardened Scales?
Erik
# Can you cast Hangarback Walker for X=0 and have it survive with Hardened Scales?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2015-12-03)

I'm building a deck with [Hangarback Walker](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hangarback%20Walker) and [Hardened Scales](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hardened%20Scales), and I was wondering if I could cast Hangarback for X=0, and it would activate Hardened Scales. Just a thought.

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering


---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_7 on 2015-12-03. Score: 11 | Accepted answer

No, and for a very straightforward reason: Hardened Scales requires that *at least* one counter be placed on the creature before it adds any additional counters:

[![Hardened Scales](https://i.sstatic.net/06tHJ.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/06tHJ.png)

The key text here is 'If *one or more*'. You're trying to put zero counters on the Hangarback Walker, and so Hardened Scales never processes.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Oh! Thank you, I guess I wasn't paying attention to the full ability.  

---

### Answer by username_1 on 2015-12-03. Score: 5

Casting [Hangarback Walker](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hangarback%20Walker) for 0, and it will enter the battlefield with zero +1/+1 counters. Since [Hardened Scales](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hardened%20Scales) requires "one or more" +1/+1 counters to be put on the permanent to trigger the replacement effect, [Hardened Scales](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hardened%20Scales) won't trigger. [Hangarback Walker](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hangarback%20Walker) will Enter the Battlefield as a 0/0, and die due to state based Actions.

If you want to play [Hangarback Walker](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hangarback%20Walker) for free, there are options:

1. Have a permanent in play that provides an anthem effect to your creatures of at least +0/+1.
2. Have it enter with a +1/+1 counter for Free. [Zameck Guildmage](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zameck%20Guildmage) or [Master Biomancer](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Master%20Biomancer).

Graft is not an option. Though the triggered effect of the creature will happen, state based actions will kill the 0/0 [Hangarback Walker](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hangarback%20Walker) before the trigger can be placed on the stack.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: While relevant, this is tangential and not actually answering the question.  
> **username_3**: Actually, he answered the question and then provided additional relevant "tangential" information.  Nothing wrong with that.  Going on a tangent myself, the answer wasn't any different than the preceding answer and the additional info should, IMHO, just have been added as a comment to the accepted answer.  
> **username_1**: The answer was initially solely tangential, to provide the effect desired by the Question. It was than edited to address the specific question asked.  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2015-12-03. Score: 1

I would just like to add to username_7's answer that even if it was a triggered ability that put counters on creatures when they enter the battlefield it still will not work.

State base actions would see a creature with zero toughness and it would be put in the graveyard before the triggered ability gets a chance to put any counters on it.

So lets say for instance instead of the scales you had [Aquastrand Spider](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=397697) it still would not work for the reason I stated.

> **Comments:**
> **username_5**: This is tangential, and doesn't actually answer the question.  
> **username_1**: Ability is triggered, but it isn't put on the stack.  
> **username_6**: Notice that Hardened Scales effect is not a triggered ability but a static replacement effect.  

---

