<p>Cauldron of Souls is not really a good card in a Hydra deck. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>107.3f If a card in any zone other than the stack has an {X} in its mana cost, the value of {X} is treated as 0, even if the value of X is defined somewhere within its text.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>That means that if the Hydra enters the battlefield in another way (e.g. from the graveyard through an animate effect, <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bFlicker%5d">Flicker</a>, or persist), it has no knowledge about the X you spend when you originally cast it (which may be turns ago, or have not even happened at all). Instead, X=0, the Hydra re-enters the battlefield with 0 +1/+1 counters and it instantly dies (unless it has a base toughness higher than 1 - it needs to survive the -1/-1 persist counter as well).</p>

<p>Otherwise, it would be a little overpowered, since +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters cancel each other out, and you would be able to repeatedly bring it back. (Though for 5 mana + the cost of the Hydra, you might expect such a powerful effect.)</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-11T16:32:22.827Z
Ok thanks, thats sort of what I was expecting but I can always be hopeful.
Hydra Fan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-11T16:41:13.137Z
A bit confusing to say it dies from the -1/-1 counter, because a 0 toughness creature would die even if it did not have a -1/-1 counter.
GendoIkari
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-11T17:37:19.493Z
Slightly off topic, but Cauldron of Souls works very well with creatures that say "enters the battlefield with N +1/+1 counters". N may vary, but isn't X cost. For instance, Bioessence Hydra or Clockwork Hydra. If that creature was given persist, it would return with N-1 +1/+1 counters, and could be persisted again in the manner you're thinking.
Aetherfox
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-11T22:00:21.950Z
@Aetherfox It's also good with creatures with Undying.
Acccumulation
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-12T01:17:40.920Z
Re "*A Hydra entering the battlefield from anywhere but your hand has no knowledge about the X you spend when casting it*", That's statement has so many errors. For starters, the hydra absolutely does know the X chosen when it was cast, no matter from where it was cast. I think you meant to say that X is 0 when the hydra *wasn't* cast, but you talk about the hydra having been cast.
ikegami
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-12T01:22:27.590Z
Re "*Otherwise, it would be a little overpowered*", That's not a valid argument. There are other infinite combos in the game.
ikegami
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-12T01:27:27.023Z
Re "*It's also good with creatures with Undying.*", Indeed. See [What happens when a creature with Persist AND Undying dies?](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/q/8599/2880)
ikegami
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-12T07:21:58.047Z
@ikegami that's how I remembered the rule as a teenager, and it worked remarkably well. I meant the situation where the Hydra *is* cast, but later re-enters the battlefield in another way.
Glorfindel
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-12-11T16:31:13.227Z
2019-12-12T07:20:01.470Z
2019-12-12T07:20:01.470Z
Glorfindel
<p>To keep it short I'm making a Hydra Tribal edh deck and was thinking about including <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bCauldron%20of%20Souls%5d">Cauldron of Souls</a>. I am not sure how it interacts with hydra creatures where you have to pay X for them. If I have a Hydra with base 0/0 and 5 +1/+1 counters on it that dies and is brought back with Cauldron of Souls, is it now a 4/4 or does it instantly die as it is brought back as a 0/0?</p>

<magic-the-gathering>
Cauldron of Souls and Hydra Interaction
Hydra Fan
# Cauldron of Souls and Hydra Interaction

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-12-11)

To keep it short I'm making a Hydra Tribal edh deck and was thinking about including [Cauldron of Souls](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bCauldron%20of%20Souls%5d). I am not sure how it interacts with hydra creatures where you have to pay X for them. If I have a Hydra with base 0/0 and 5 +1/+1 counters on it that dies and is brought back with Cauldron of Souls, is it now a 4/4 or does it instantly die as it is brought back as a 0/0?

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering


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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2019-12-11. Score: 3

Cauldron of Souls is not really a good card in a Hydra deck.

> 107.3f If a card in any zone other than the stack has an {X} in its mana cost, the value of {X} is treated as 0, even if the value of X is defined somewhere within its text.

That means that if the Hydra enters the battlefield in another way (e.g. from the graveyard through an animate effect, [Flicker](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bFlicker%5d), or persist), it has no knowledge about the X you spend when you originally cast it (which may be turns ago, or have not even happened at all). Instead, X=0, the Hydra re-enters the battlefield with 0 +1/+1 counters and it instantly dies (unless it has a base toughness higher than 1 - it needs to survive the -1/-1 persist counter as well).

Otherwise, it would be a little overpowered, since +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters cancel each other out, and you would be able to repeatedly bring it back. (Though for 5 mana + the cost of the Hydra, you might expect such a powerful effect.)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Ok thanks, thats sort of what I was expecting but I can always be hopeful.  
> **username_2**: A bit confusing to say it dies from the -1/-1 counter, because a 0 toughness creature would die even if it did not have a -1/-1 counter.  
> **username_3**: Slightly off topic, but Cauldron of Souls works very well with creatures that say "enters the battlefield with N +1/+1 counters". N may vary, but isn't X cost. For instance, Bioessence Hydra or Clockwork Hydra. If that creature was given persist, it would return with N-1 +1/+1 counters, and could be persisted again in the manner you're thinking.  
> **username_4**: @username_3 It's also good with creatures with Undying.  
> **username_5**: Re "*A Hydra entering the battlefield from anywhere but your hand has no knowledge about the X you spend when casting it*", That's statement has so many errors. For starters, the hydra absolutely does know the X chosen when it was cast, no matter from where it was cast. I think you meant to say that X is 0 when the hydra *wasn't* cast, but you talk about the hydra having been cast.  
> **username_5**: Re "*Otherwise, it would be a little overpowered*", That's not a valid argument. There are other infinite combos in the game.  
> **username_5**: Re "*It's also good with creatures with Undying.*", Indeed. See [What happens when a creature with Persist AND Undying dies?](https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/q/8599/2880)  
> **username_1**: @username_5 that's how I remembered the rule as a teenager, and it worked remarkably well. I meant the situation where the Hydra *is* cast, but later re-enters the battlefield in another way.  

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