<p>From the official Wizards site's <a href="http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/157b" rel="noreferrer">article about Double-Faced Card Rules</a>:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>After a double-faced card transforms, it's still the same card, so any
  Auras, counters, or other effects stay right where they are (unless
  the double-faced card's characteristics have changed such that an Aura
  can no longer legally enchant it).</p>
</blockquote>

<p>This obviously includes a planeswalker's loyalty counters.  I think it's helpful to imagine the "transform" action as being a literal transform - the face of the card almost magically instantaneously changes from one aspect to another.  If you think of it over-literally as "flipping the card over" then it's logical to imagine everything falling off!  But this isn't what happens.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2011-09-21T13:26:37.783Z
2011-09-21T13:26:37.783Z
thesunneversets
<p>According to <a href="http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28285251/Innistrad_FAQ?post_id=506930013#506930013" rel="noreferrer">DCI Level 2 Judge "Natedogg"</a> the loyalty counters from the front face transfer to the back face.</p>

<p>Specifically</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>You don't add or remove loyalty counters from Garruk Relentless when  he transforms into Garruk, the Veil-Cursed. In most cases, he'll have  one or two loyalty counters on him.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Since it's a natural follow up question about the one ability per turn use of a planeswalker</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>You can't activate a loyalty ability of Garruk Relentless and later  that turn after he transforms activate a loyalty ability of Garruk, the  Veil-Cursed.</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2011-09-21T12:42:33.377Z
I had to hunt around to find a citation so I thought it'd be of interest to others.
Stephen
CC BY-SA 3.0
2011-09-21T12:49:12.610Z
it definitely is - it's implied by the lack of loyalty counter on the transformed version, but it's nice to see a ruling.
Ian Pugsley
CC BY-SA 3.0
2011-09-21T12:42:01.770Z
2011-09-21T12:42:01.770Z
Stephen
<p>This is covered by the <a href="http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/rules"><em>Magic</em> Comprehensive Rules</a>:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>121.1. A counter is a marker placed on an object or player that modifies its characteristics and/or 
  interacts with a rule, ability, or effect.</p>
</blockquote>

<hr>

<blockquote>
  <p>711.7. When a double-faced permanent transforms, it doesn‘t become a new object. Any effects that 
  applied to that permanent will continue to apply to it after it transforms.</p>
  
  <p><em><strong>Example:</strong> An effect gives Village Ironsmith (the front face of a double-faced card) +2/+2 
  until end of turn and then Village Ironsmith transforms into Ironfang. Ironfang will continue 
  to get +2/+2 until end of turn.</em></p>
</blockquote>

<p>When Garruk Relentless transforms into Garruk, the Veil-Cursed, he remains the same object, so there's no reason to believe anything happens to his loyalty counters.</p>

<p>The official <a href="http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/faq/isd"><em>Innistrad</em> FAQ</a> mentions this as well:</p>

<blockquote>
  <ul>
  <li>Transforming a permanent doesn't affect any Auras or Equipment attached to that permanent. Similarly, any counters on the permanent will remain on that permanent after it transforms.</li>
  </ul>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2011-09-28T22:08:44.460Z
2011-09-28T22:08:44.460Z
adamjford
<p>When a double faced planeswalker, like Garruk Relentless transforms into Garruk, the Veil Cursed there is no new loyalty symbol at the bottom of the card.</p>

<p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/Vech4.jpg" alt="Garruk Relentless"></p>

<p>Does his current loyalty carry over or is there some new mechanic to deal with DFC Planeswalkers?</p>

<magic-the-gathering><mtg-double-faced-cards><mtg-planeswalkers>
What happens to loyalty counters on a double faced Planeswalker?
Stephen
# What happens to loyalty counters on a double faced Planeswalker?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2011-09-21)

When a double faced planeswalker, like Garruk Relentless transforms into Garruk, the Veil Cursed there is no new loyalty symbol at the bottom of the card.

![Garruk Relentless](https://i.sstatic.net/Vech4.jpg)

Does his current loyalty carry over or is there some new mechanic to deal with DFC Planeswalkers?

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering, mtg-double-faced-cards, mtg-planeswalkers


---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2011-09-28. Score: 7 | Accepted answer

This is covered by the [*Magic* Comprehensive Rules](http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/rules):

> 121.1. A counter is a marker placed on an object or player that modifies its characteristics and/or
> interacts with a rule, ability, or effect.

---

> 711.7. When a double-faced permanent transforms, it doesn‘t become a new object. Any effects that
> applied to that permanent will continue to apply to it after it transforms.
>
> ***Example:** An effect gives Village Ironsmith (the front face of a double-faced card) +2/+2
> until end of turn and then Village Ironsmith transforms into Ironfang. Ironfang will continue
> to get +2/+2 until end of turn.*

When Garruk Relentless transforms into Garruk, the Veil-Cursed, he remains the same object, so there's no reason to believe anything happens to his loyalty counters.

The official [*Innistrad* FAQ](http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/faq/isd) mentions this as well:

> * Transforming a permanent doesn't affect any Auras or Equipment attached to that permanent. Similarly, any counters on the permanent will remain on that permanent after it transforms.


---

### Answer by username_1 on 2011-09-21. Score: 7

From the official Wizards site's [article about Double-Faced Card Rules](http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/157b):

> After a double-faced card transforms, it's still the same card, so any
> Auras, counters, or other effects stay right where they are (unless
> the double-faced card's characteristics have changed such that an Aura
> can no longer legally enchant it).

This obviously includes a planeswalker's loyalty counters. I think it's helpful to imagine the "transform" action as being a literal transform - the face of the card almost magically instantaneously changes from one aspect to another. If you think of it over-literally as "flipping the card over" then it's logical to imagine everything falling off! But this isn't what happens.


---

### Answer by username_0 on 2011-09-21. Score: 6

According to [DCI Level 2 Judge "Natedogg"](http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/28285251/Innistrad_FAQ?post_id=506930013#506930013) the loyalty counters from the front face transfer to the back face.

Specifically

> You don't add or remove loyalty counters from Garruk Relentless when he transforms into Garruk, the Veil-Cursed. In most cases, he'll have one or two loyalty counters on him.

Since it's a natural follow up question about the one ability per turn use of a planeswalker

> You can't activate a loyalty ability of Garruk Relentless and later that turn after he transforms activate a loyalty ability of Garruk, the Veil-Cursed.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I had to hunt around to find a citation so I thought it'd be of interest to others.  
> **username_2**: it definitely is - it's implied by the lack of loyalty counter on the transformed version, but it's nice to see a ruling.  

---

