<p>The Combat section of the rules (<a href="https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/30/4f/304f72e3-4fe4-4f91-bfbe-75133161b092/va65_agot2_rulebook_web.pdf#page=17" rel="nofollow noreferrer">page 17</a>) states that Combat ensues "whenever a player marches one or more of his units into an
area <strong>containing units from another House</strong>&hellip;" However, it says nothing about marching into an area containing neutral forces, and nothing in the Neutral Forces section actually defines taking a neutral territory as "combat".</p>

<p>While obviously very combat-like in nature, as I read it "Destroying a Neutral Force" is very much its own thing and not simply an extension of combat. The line about collecting support actually lampshades that it's performed "<strong>as in</strong> combat" which, to me, demonstrates that this is in itself <em>not</em> "combat".</p>

<p>And technically, combat or no, the first step of drawing Tides of Battle cards is done "after choosing and revealing House cards," which would never happen anyway since "no House Cards are played" when Destroying a Neutral Force.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-12-31T16:15:25.113Z
goldPseudo is correct - attacking Neutral Forces is not classed as Combat, therefore no Tides of Battle Cards are drawn.
Daniel Lim
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-12-31T01:52:29.740Z
2016-12-31T01:52:29.740Z
goldPseudo
<p>It does lsay on page 26 that the neutral force must be defeated by exceeding the stregth using the factors listed. Tide of battle cards are not listed and by this exclusion not useable on neutral forces.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-12-29T23:51:33.743Z
But it is expected that they are not mentioned, since their existence is only introduced in page 29...
Pedro A
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-12-29T18:00:36.900Z
2016-12-29T18:00:36.900Z
D Tagliaferri
<p>If players decided to use the optional module "Tides of Battle", <strong>are Tides of Battle cards used when attacking a neutral force?</strong></p>

<p>The <a href="https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/30/4f/304f72e3-4fe4-4f91-bfbe-75133161b092/va65_agot2_rulebook_web.pdf#page=29" rel="nofollow noreferrer">section about "Tides of Battle" on the rulebook (page 29)</a> mentions that they are used on <strong>combat</strong>. But when reading the <a href="https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/30/4f/304f72e3-4fe4-4f91-bfbe-75133161b092/va65_agot2_rulebook_web.pdf#page=26" rel="nofollow noreferrer">section about Neutral Forces on the rulebook (page 26)</a>, it did not become clear to me whether or not destroying a neutral force strictly counts as combat.</p>

<p>I couldn't find anything relevant in the <a href="https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/agot-bg-2nd-ed/support/faq/VA65_AGoT2_FAQ_v1_4.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">errata/FAQ</a> either.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance!</p>

<game-of-thrones>
Game of Thrones: Are Tides of Battle cards used when attacking a neutral force?
Pedro A
# Game of Thrones: Are Tides of Battle cards used when attacking a neutral force?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-12-29)

If players decided to use the optional module "Tides of Battle", **are Tides of Battle cards used when attacking a neutral force?**

The [section about "Tides of Battle" on the rulebook (page 29)](https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/30/4f/304f72e3-4fe4-4f91-bfbe-75133161b092/va65_agot2_rulebook_web.pdf#page=29) mentions that they are used on **combat**. But when reading the [section about Neutral Forces on the rulebook (page 26)](https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/30/4f/304f72e3-4fe4-4f91-bfbe-75133161b092/va65_agot2_rulebook_web.pdf#page=26), it did not become clear to me whether or not destroying a neutral force strictly counts as combat.

I couldn't find anything relevant in the [errata/FAQ](https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/agot-bg-2nd-ed/support/faq/VA65_AGoT2_FAQ_v1_4.pdf) either.

Thanks in advance!

**Tags:** game-of-thrones


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## 2 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2016-12-31. Score: 4 | Accepted answer

The Combat section of the rules ([page 17](https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/30/4f/304f72e3-4fe4-4f91-bfbe-75133161b092/va65_agot2_rulebook_web.pdf#page=17)) states that Combat ensues "whenever a player marches one or more of his units into an
area **containing units from another House**…" However, it says nothing about marching into an area containing neutral forces, and nothing in the Neutral Forces section actually defines taking a neutral territory as "combat".

While obviously very combat-like in nature, as I read it "Destroying a Neutral Force" is very much its own thing and not simply an extension of combat. The line about collecting support actually lampshades that it's performed "**as in** combat" which, to me, demonstrates that this is in itself *not* "combat".

And technically, combat or no, the first step of drawing Tides of Battle cards is done "after choosing and revealing House cards," which would never happen anyway since "no House Cards are played" when Destroying a Neutral Force.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: username_1 is correct - attacking Neutral Forces is not classed as Combat, therefore no Tides of Battle Cards are drawn.  

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### Answer by username_3 on 2016-12-29. Score: -1

It does lsay on page 26 that the neutral force must be defeated by exceeding the stregth using the factors listed. Tide of battle cards are not listed and by this exclusion not useable on neutral forces.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: But it is expected that they are not mentioned, since their existence is only introduced in page 29...  

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