<p>If he has said that he takes the life loss from Shaman of the Pack then the spell has already resolved, entered the battlefield, the enter-the-battlefield-trigger has been put on the stack and resolved. It is then way too late to decide to counter the Shaman.</p>

<p>If he had not yet acknowledged the life loss from the Shaman verbally or by obvious gesture, then he still retains priority and you cannot decide to move to combat.</p>

<p>The important thing is that he acknowledged the loss of life.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-26T10:01:08.690Z
Indeed the biggest problem in Magic is the steps and priorities. Verbally skipping priority is a drag, and in casual games, never used to expedite the matches. But the steps are still there - and if a player wants to do something in his priority, you have to give him a chance obviously. In tournament setting, you'd best ask if he had skipped his priority before such moves where you might be giving too much info. Play spell, and ask "do you pass priority?".
CyberClaw
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-26T08:43:05.283Z
2017-02-01T13:01:37.593Z
2017-02-01T13:01:37.593Z
zo0x
<p><strong>It is too late for your opponent to counter Shaman.</strong></p>

<p>You mentioned that your opponent took the damage from Shaman's "enters the battlefield" triggered ability. Your opponent cannot take damage from an "enters the battlefield" trigger and then decide to back the game up to counter the creature that entered.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-26T15:03:14.110Z
In this case though, the OP said that his opponent "takes the damage". If his opponent reduced his own life as a result of the ETB trigger, then that would be passing priority wouldn't it?
GendoIkari
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-26T20:52:57.987Z
@GendoIkari Yea, you're right. I missed that part in the question. Thanks for pointing it out.
Rainbolt
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-26T14:42:41.580Z
2017-01-26T20:52:41.460Z
2017-01-26T20:52:41.460Z
Rainbolt
<p>The actual confusion seems to be about what can actually be countered, which the rules clear up in an unusually short manner:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p><strong>701.5a.</strong> To counter a spell or ability means to cancel it, removing it from the stack. It doesn’t resolve and none of its effects occur. A countered spell is put into its owner’s graveyard.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>This requires the spell to be actually <em>on</em> the stack in the first place, as indicated by <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bCounterspell%5d">Counterspell</a>s targetting spells. Once a creature spell resolves and as a result enters the battlefield, it can't be countered anymore or targeted at all by <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bCounterspell%5d">Counterspell</a>s.</p>

<p>Your opponent seems to be under the impression that a counterspell is about the same as a destruction spell such as <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bMurder%5d">Murder</a>, which is not the case.</p>

<p>As mentioned in the other answers as well, the fact that your opponent acknowledged the life loss from an ETB ability means they agreed to advance the game to a point where that creature had already left the stack and entered the battlefield, making this situation particularily easy to resolve - your opponent is not able to counter your creature at this point anymore.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-02-01T14:50:49.687Z
2017-02-01T15:16:40.197Z
2017-02-01T15:16:40.197Z
TheThirdMan
<p>Ok, so I play <a class="mtg-autocard" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" href="http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bShaman%20of%20the%20Pack%5d">Shaman of the Pack</a> (I'm using an elf deck) whilst having a few elves (6 or so), and my opponent takes the damage. His creatures are tapped out, and I have a 5/4 elf with an artifact equipped that gives +1/+1 for each creature that shares a type with it, and I begin to declare attackers. At this time, he decides to counter Shaman of the Pack. Is this a legal move or is he in the wrong?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-26T15:05:21.400Z
As a technical thing that can matter sometimes.... your opponent doesn't "take damage" when Shaman enters the battlefield. He loses life, which is a different thing. Usually, taking damage will result in losing life, but they aren't the same thing.
GendoIkari
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-02-01T14:43:56.410Z
In reference to GendoIkari's comment, See [Deflecting Palm](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=386516)
Matt Brennan
<magic-the-gathering>
Canceling a creature spell during combat
jwiggi
# Canceling a creature spell during combat

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-01-26)

Ok, so I play [Shaman of the Pack](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bShaman%20of%20the%20Pack%5d) (I'm using an elf deck) whilst having a few elves (6 or so), and my opponent takes the damage. His creatures are tapped out, and I have a 5/4 elf with an artifact equipped that gives +1/+1 for each creature that shares a type with it, and I begin to declare attackers. At this time, he decides to counter Shaman of the Pack. Is this a legal move or is he in the wrong?

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: As a technical thing that can matter sometimes.... your opponent doesn't "take damage" when Shaman enters the battlefield. He loses life, which is a different thing. Usually, taking damage will result in losing life, but they aren't the same thing.  
> **username_2**: In reference to username_1's comment, See [Deflecting Palm](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=386516)  

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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2017-01-26. Score: 7

If he has said that he takes the life loss from Shaman of the Pack then the spell has already resolved, entered the battlefield, the enter-the-battlefield-trigger has been put on the stack and resolved. It is then way too late to decide to counter the Shaman.

If he had not yet acknowledged the life loss from the Shaman verbally or by obvious gesture, then he still retains priority and you cannot decide to move to combat.

The important thing is that he acknowledged the loss of life.

> **Comments:**
> **username_4**: Indeed the biggest problem in Magic is the steps and priorities. Verbally skipping priority is a drag, and in casual games, never used to expedite the matches. But the steps are still there - and if a player wants to do something in his priority, you have to give him a chance obviously. In tournament setting, you'd best ask if he had skipped his priority before such moves where you might be giving too much info. Play spell, and ask "do you pass priority?".  

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### Answer by username_5 on 2017-01-26. Score: 4

**It is too late for your opponent to counter Shaman.**

You mentioned that your opponent took the damage from Shaman's "enters the battlefield" triggered ability. Your opponent cannot take damage from an "enters the battlefield" trigger and then decide to back the game up to counter the creature that entered.

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: In this case though, the OP said that his opponent "takes the damage". If his opponent reduced his own life as a result of the ETB trigger, then that would be passing priority wouldn't it?  
> **username_5**: @username_1 Yea, you're right. I missed that part in the question. Thanks for pointing it out.  

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### Answer by username_6 on 2017-02-01. Score: 2

The actual confusion seems to be about what can actually be countered, which the rules clear up in an unusually short manner:

> **701.5a.** To counter a spell or ability means to cancel it, removing it from the stack. It doesn’t resolve and none of its effects occur. A countered spell is put into its owner’s graveyard.

This requires the spell to be actually *on* the stack in the first place, as indicated by [Counterspell](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bCounterspell%5d)s targetting spells. Once a creature spell resolves and as a result enters the battlefield, it can't be countered anymore or targeted at all by [Counterspell](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bCounterspell%5d)s.

Your opponent seems to be under the impression that a counterspell is about the same as a destruction spell such as [Murder](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?name=%2b%5bMurder%5d), which is not the case.

As mentioned in the other answers as well, the fact that your opponent acknowledged the life loss from an ETB ability means they agreed to advance the game to a point where that creature had already left the stack and entered the battlefield, making this situation particularily easy to resolve - your opponent is not able to counter your creature at this point anymore.


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