<p>Undying doesn't care how the +1/+1 counter got there. Undying won't trigger.</p>

<p>Conversely, if Undying previously placed a +1/+1 counter on a permanent, but the counter got removed <a href="http://magiccards.info/som/en/63.html" rel="nofollow">somehow</a> before the permanent died a second time, Undying will trigger and bring the card back a second time.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-17T02:48:39.623Z
It's important to note that putting a -1/-1 on to remove the +1/+1 can't be what actually causes leathal damage or 0 toughness. If it is, the state based action check will kill it with both counters still on it, so neither undying nor persist will trigger.
Michael Snook
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-17T03:58:12.717Z
@Michael Snook, Indeed.
ikegami
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-17T01:29:54.637Z
2014-11-17T01:36:27.620Z
2014-11-17T01:36:27.620Z
ikegami
<p>For example, I have a <em>Howlgeist</em> that I enchanted with <em>Oath of Ancient Wood</em> so it has a +1/+1 counter on it, when it dies does it not come back because of the +1/+1 counter even though it wasn't put there by Undying?</p>

<magic-the-gathering>
What happens when a card with undying dies that has a +1/+1 counter put on it by something other that undying?
BolasStone
# What happens when a card with undying dies that has a +1/+1 counter put on it by something other that undying?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-11-17)

For example, I have a *Howlgeist* that I enchanted with *Oath of Ancient Wood* so it has a +1/+1 counter on it, when it dies does it not come back because of the +1/+1 counter even though it wasn't put there by Undying?

**Tags:** magic-the-gathering


---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2014-11-17. Score: 2 | Accepted answer

Undying doesn't care how the +1/+1 counter got there. Undying won't trigger.

Conversely, if Undying previously placed a +1/+1 counter on a permanent, but the counter got removed [somehow](http://magiccards.info/som/en/63.html) before the permanent died a second time, Undying will trigger and bring the card back a second time.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: It's important to note that putting a -1/-1 on to remove the +1/+1 can't be what actually causes leathal damage or 0 toughness. If it is, the state based action check will kill it with both counters still on it, so neither undying nor persist will trigger.  
> **username_1**: @username_2, Indeed.  

---

