what did the team think about distributing the corpus ?[SEP] <s>grad a: ok , this is one channel . can you uh , say your name and talk into your mike one at a time ? phd c: this is eric on channel three , i believe . grad a: ok . uh , i do n't think it 's on there , jane . undergrad d: tasting one two three , tasting . postdoc e: ok , this is jane on channel five . grad a: uh , i still do n't see you jane . postdoc e: oh , darn , what am i doing wrong ? undergrad d: can you see me on channel four ? really ? grad a: yeah , i s undergrad d: my lucky day . postdoc e: uh , screen no , it is , oh , maybe it just warmed up ? grad a: no . postdoc e: oh , darn , can you ca n't see channel five yet ? grad a: uh , well , the mike is n't close enough to your mouth , so . postdoc e: oh , this would be k ok , is that better ? grad a: s uh , try speaking loudly , undergrad d: i like the high quality labelling . grad a: so , postdoc e: hello , grad a: ok , good . undergrad d: david , can we borrow your labelling machine to improve the quality of the labelling a little bit here ? postdoc e: hello . alright . grad a: thank you . phd b: one t undergrad d: how how many are there , one to five ? phd b: one five , yeah . undergrad d: yeah , please . postdoc e: would you like to join the meeting ? grad a: well , we do n't wan na renumber them , postdoc e: i bet grad a: cuz we 've already have like , forms filled out with the numbers on them . so , let 's keep the same numbers on them . phd b: yeah , ok , that 's a good idea . grad a: ok , dan , are you on ? phd b: i 'm on i 'm on two and i should be on . grad a: good . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: want to join the meeting , dave ? do we do do we have a spare , uh grad a: and i 'm getting lots of responses on different ones , so i assume the various and assorted p z ms are on . undergrad d: we ' r we 're we ' r this is this this is a meeting meeting . postdoc e: this is abou we 're we 're mainly being taped but we 're gon na talk about , uh , transcription for the m future meeting meetings . grad a: stuff . yeah , this is not something you need to attend . so . postdoc e: yeah . e ok . phd c: you 're always having one of those days , dave . postdoc e: y you 'd be welcome . grad a: besides , i do n't want anyone who has a weird accent . postdoc e: you 'd be welcome . grad a: right , dan ? undergrad d: so , i do n't understand if it 's neck mounted you do n't get very good performance . phd c: it 's not neck mounted . it 's supposed to be h head mounted . undergrad d: yeah . it it should be head mounted . right ? grad a: well , then put it on your head . phd b: i do n't know . phd c: right . grad a: what are you doing ? undergrad d: cuz when you do this , you can rouww - rouww . postdoc e: why did n't i you were saying that but i could hear you really well on the on the transcription on the , uh , tape . grad a: well , i m i would prefer that people wore it on their head phd b: i i do n't know . phd c: i grad a: but they were complaining about it . because it 's not it does n't go over the ears . undergrad d: why ? postdoc e: it 's badly designed . grad a: it 's very badly designed so it 's phd b: it 's very badly designed ? undergrad d: what do you mean it does n't go over the ears ? phd b: why ? it 's not s it 's not supposed to cover up your ears . grad a: yeah but , there 's nowhere to put the pad so it 's comfortable . phd b: i mean , it 's only badly postdoc e: so that 's what you 're d he 's got it on his temples so it cuts off his circulation . phd b: oh , that 's strange . phd c: yeah , that 's that 's what i have . grad a: and it feels so good that way . phd c: it feels so good when i stop . grad a: so i i again would like to do some digits . undergrad d: somebody wan na postdoc e: try it . grad a: um . undergrad d: somebody wan na close the door ? grad a: sure . phd b: ok . postdoc e: we could do it with noise . grad a: so let me phd c: you 're always doing digits . grad a: well , you know , i 'm just that sort of digit - y g sorta guy . ok . so this is adam . postdoc e: uh , this is the same one i had before . grad a: i doubt it . phd b: it 's still the same words . grad a: i think we 're session four by the way . or m it might be five . undergrad d: psss ! oh , that 's good . postdoc e: no grad a: i did n't bring my previous thing . phd b: we did n't postdoc e: now , just to be sure , the numbers on the back , this is the channel ? phd b: that 's the microphone number . postdoc e: that 's the microphone number . grad a: yeah , d leave the channel blank . postdoc e: uh - oh . ok , good . undergrad d: but number has to be ? so we have to look up the number . postdoc e: five grad a: right . undergrad d: ok , good . postdoc e: good . ok . well , this is jane , on mike number five . um . i just start ? do i need to say anything more ? grad a: uh , transcript number . phd b: transcript number phd c: ok , this is eric on microphone number three , undergrad d: this is beck on mike four . grad a: thanks . should i turn off the vu meter dan ? do you think that makes any difference ? phd b: oh , god . no , let me do it . grad a: why ? are you gon na do something other than hit `` quit `` ? phd b: no , but i 'm gon na look at the uh , logs as well . grad a: oh . should have done it before . postdoc e: uh , you said turn off the what ? grad a: the vu meter which tells you what the levels on the various mikes are and there was one hypothesis that perhaps that the act of recording the vu meter was one of the things that contributed to the errors . postdoc e: oh . oh , i see . undergrad d: yeah , but eric , uh , you did n't think that was a reasonable hypothesis , right ? postdoc e: i see . grad a: that was me , undergrad d: oh , i 'm sorry y grad a: i thought that was undergrad d: that was malarkey . grad a: well , the only reason that could be is if the driver has a bug . right ? because the machine just is n't very heavily loaded . undergrad d: no chance of that . grad a: no chance of that . just because it 's beta . look ok ? phd b: yeah , there there there was there was a there was a bug . there was a glitch last time we ran . undergrad d: are - are yo are you recording where the table mikes are by the way ? phd b: no . undergrad d: do you know which channels grad a: yeah , we usually do that . phd b: no , we do n't . grad a: yeah . phd b: but we we ought to st we ought to standardize . undergrad d: why not ? phd b: i think , uh , i s i spoke to somebody , morgan , { comment } about that . i think i think we should put mar well , no , w we can do that . undergrad d: why do n't you just do this ? grad a: i mean , that 's what we 've done before . phd b: i know what they they 're they 're four , three , two , one . in order now . undergrad d: four . phd b: three , two , and one . undergrad d: three . phd b: but i think i think we should put them in standard positions . i think we should make little marks on the table top . grad a: which means we need to move this thing , and sorta decide how we 're actually going to do things . phd b: so that we can put them postdoc e: oh , ok . phd b: i guess that 's the point . grad a: so . phd b: it 'll be a lot easier if we have a if we have them permanently in place or something like that . grad a: right . postdoc e: i do wish there were big booms coming down from the ceiling . phd b: you do ? postdoc e: yeah . phd c: would it make you feel more important ? grad a: mmm . postdoc e: yeah , yeah , yeah . phd c: i see . undergrad d: wait till the projector gets installed . postdoc e: you know . grad a: that 'll work . postdoc e: oh , that 'll be good . grad a: that 'll work . phd b: oh , gosh . undergrad d: cuz it 's gon na hang down , make noise . postdoc e: ok . phd b: when 's it gon na be installed ? postdoc e: ok . undergrad d: well , it depends on phd b: i see . undergrad d: is this b is this being recorded ? grad a: that 's right . undergrad d: uh , i think lila actually is almost getting r pretty close to even getting ready to put out the purchase order . phd b: ok . cool . undergrad d: i handed it off to her about a month ago . phd b: i see . grad a: ok , so , topic of this meeting is i wan na talk a little bit about transcription . um , i 've looked a little bit into commercial transcription services and jane has been working on doing transcription . uh , and so we wan wan na decide what we 're gon na do with that and then get an update on the electronics , and then , uh , maybe also talk a little bit about some infrastructure and tools , and so on . um , you know , eventually we 're probably gon na wan na distribute this thing and we should decide how we 're gon na how we 're gon na handle some of these factors . so . phd b: distribute what ? grad a: hmm ? phd b: the data ? grad a: right . right . i mean , so we 're we 're collecting a corpus and i think it 's gon na be generally useful . i mean , it seems like it 's not a corpus which is uh , has been done before . and so i think people will be interested in having having it , phd b: oh . grad a: and so we will undergrad d: u using , like , audio d v ds or something like that ? grad a: excuse me ? phd b: yes . undergrad d: audio d v grad a: well , or something . yeah , audio d v c ds , undergrad d: or t grad a: you know . undergrad d: yeah . tapes . grad a: and and so how we do we distribute the transcripts , how do we distribute the audio files , how do we how do we just do all that infrastructure ? phd c: well , i think i mean , for that particular issue ther there are known sources where people go to to find these kind of things like the ldc for instance . postdoc e: yeah , grad a: right , but but so should we do it in the same format as ldc postdoc e: that 's right . grad a: and what does that mean to what we 've done already ? phd b: right . the it 's not so much the actu the logistics of distribution are secondary to preparing the data in a suitable form for distribution . phd c: right . grad a: right . so , uh , as it is , it 's sort of a ad - hoc combination of stuff dan set and stuff i set up , which we may wan na make a little more formal . so . phd b: and the other thing is that , um , university of washington may want to start recording meetings as well , grad a: right . phd b: in which case w w we 'll have to decide what we 've actually got so that we can give them a copy . grad a: that 's right . undergrad d: a field trip . grad a: yeah . i was actually thinking i would n't mind spending the summer up there . that would be kind of fun . phd b: oh , really ? grad a: yeah . visit my friends and spend some time phd b: different for you . yes . grad a: well , and then also i have a bunch of stuff for doing this digits . so i have a bunch of scripts with x waves , and some perl scripts , and other things that make it really easy to extract out and align where the digits are . and if u d uw 's going to do the same thing i think it 's worth while for them to do these digits tasks as well . undergrad d: mm - hmm . grad a: and what i 've done is pretty ad - hoc , um , so we might wan na change it over to something a little more standard . phd c: hmm . grad a: you know , stm files , or xml , or something . undergrad d: an - and there 's interest up there ? grad a: what 's that ? undergrad d: there 's interest up there ? grad a: well they they certainly wan na collect more data . and so they 're applying , i think i b is that right ? something like that . phd b: i do n't know . grad a: um , for some more money to do more data . so we were planning to do like thirty or forty hours worth of meetings . they wan na do an additional hundred or so hours . so , they want a very large data set . um , but of course we 're not gon na do that if we do n't get money . so . phd b: i see . grad a: and i would like that just to get a disjoint speaker set and a disjoint room . i mean , one of the things morgan and i were talking about is we 're gon na get to know this room really well , phd c: mm - hmm . grad a: the the acoustics of this room . phd b: all about that . undergrad d: including the fan . grad a: including the fan . undergrad d: did you notice the fan difference ? phd b: oh , now you 've touched the fan control , now all our data 's gon na be undergrad d: hear the difference ? grad a: oh , it 's enormous . phd b: yeah , it 's great . postdoc e: oh , that 's better . undergrad d: do you wan na leave it off or not ? postdoc e: that 's better . grad a: all the others have been on . phd b: that 's undergrad d: yeah , the you sure ? phd b: oh , yeah . grad a: y absolut phd b: absolutely . undergrad d: you you think that grad a: yeah . undergrad d: things after the f then this fan 's wired backwards by the way . uh , i think this is high speed here . postdoc e: yeah , it 's noticeable . undergrad d: well , not clear . phd b: well it 's well like `` low `` is mid mid - scale . undergrad d: maybe it maybe it is n't . phd b: so it could be that it 's not actually wired backwards undergrad d: that 's right . phd b: it 's just that ambiguous . undergrad d: i was wondering also , get ready . { comment } whether the lights made any noise . postdoc e: uh - huh . grad a: there 's definitely yep . phd b: oh , they do . phd c: yeah , a little bit . phd b: yeah . grad a: high pitch hum . wow . undergrad d: so , do our meetings in the dark with no air conditioning in the future . grad a: yeah , just get a variety . postdoc e: i think candles would be nice if they do n't make noise . grad a: they 're very good . phd b: oh , yeah . phd c: it would you know , it would real really mean that we should do short meetings when you turn off the { comment } turn off the air conditioning , grad a: carbon monoxide poisoning ? undergrad d: short meetings , that 's right . or yeah , sort of { comment } r r phd c: got to finish this meeting . undergrad d: tear t tear your clothing off to stay cool . phd c: that 's right . undergrad d: actually , the a th air the air conditioning 's still working , that 's just an auxiliary fan . phd c: right , i see . grad a: so phd c: so , um , in addition to this issue about the uw stuff there was announced today , uh , via the ldc , um , a corpus from i believe santa barbara . postdoc e: yeah , i saw it . i 've been watching for that corpus . phd c: um , of general spoken english . postdoc e: yeah . yep . phd c: and i do n't know exactly how they recorded it but apparently there 's a lot of different styles of speech and what not . grad a: mm - hmm . phd c: and postdoc e: they had people come in to a certain degree and they and they have dat recorders . phd c: i see . so it is sort of far field stuff . right ? postdoc e: i i assume so , actually , i had n't thought about that . unless they added close field later on but , um , i 've listened to some of those data and i , um , i 've been i i was actually on the advisory board for when they set the project up . grad a: mm - hmm . phd c: oh , ok . phd b: what 's it sound like ? postdoc e: i 'm glad to see that it got released . grad a: yeah , i i wish postdoc e: so it it 's a very nice thing . grad a: i wish we had someone here working on adaptation phd c: s grad a: because it would nice to be able to take that stuff and adapt it to a meeting setting . you know phd c: but it may be it may be useful in postdoc e: how do you mean do you mean mechanical adaptation or grad a: no , software , to adapt the speech recognition . postdoc e: ok . phd c: well , what i was thinking is it may be useful in transcribing , if it 's far field stuff , grad a: mm - hmm . phd c: right ? in doing , um , some of our first automatic speech recognition models , it may be useful to have that kind of data postdoc e: great idea . phd c: because that 's very different than any kind of data that we have so far . grad a: that 's true . postdoc e: and and their recording conditions are really clean . i mean , i 've i 've heard i 've listened to the data . grad a: well that 's not good , right ? phd c: that 's that 's not great . postdoc e: it sounds undergrad d: tr postdoc e: well but what i mean is that , um undergrad d: but far field means great distance ? i mean grad a: just these . undergrad d: not head mounted ? phd b: yeah . undergrad d: and so that 's why they 're getting away with just two channels or something , or are they using multiple dats ? postdoc e: um , oh , good question and i ca n't ans answer it . grad a: well we can look into it . postdoc e: i do n't know . phd c: no , and their web their web page did n't answer it either . so i 'm , i uh , was thinking that we should contact them . postdoc e: ok . phd c: so it 's that 's sort of a beside - the - point point . but . grad a: so we can get that just with , uh , media costs , undergrad d: still a point . phd c: right . grad a: is that right ? phd c: uh , in fact we get it for free grad a: oh . phd c: cuz they 're distributing it through the ldc . grad a: great . postdoc e: yep . grad a: so that would be yeah , that would be something to look into . so . phd c: so , i can i can actually arrange for it to arrive in short order if we 're postdoc e: the other thing too is from from a grad a: well , it 's silly to do unless we 're gon na have someone to work on it , so maybe we need to think about it a little bit . phd c: huh . postdoc e: the other thing too is that their their jus their transcription format is really nice and simple in in the discourse domain . but they also mentioned that they have it time aligned . i mean , i s i i saw that write - up . phd c: yeah . maybe we should maybe we should get a copy of it just to see what they did phd b: yeah , absolutely . grad a: yeah . phd c: so so that we can we can compare . postdoc e: it 's very nice . grad a: ok , why do n't you go ahead and do that then eric ? phd b: absolutely . phd c: alright , i 'll do that . i ca n't remember the name of the corpus . it 's corps - s postdoc e: csae . phd c: s postdoc e: corpus of spoken american english . phd c: right , ok . postdoc e: yeah , sp i 've been i was really pleased to see that . i knew that they they had had some funding problems in completing it phd b: uh - huh . phd c: yeah . postdoc e: but , um , phd c: well they 're postdoc e: this is clever . phd c: apparently this was like phase one postdoc e: got it through the ldc . phd c: and the there 's still more that they 're gon na do apparently or something like that unless of course they have funding issues postdoc e: great . great . phd c: and then then it ma they may not do phase two but from all the web documentation it looked like , `` oh , this is phase one `` , whatever that means . postdoc e: super . super . great . yeah , that i mean , they 're really well respected in the linguistics d side too and the discourse area , phd c: ok . postdoc e: and so this is a very good corpus . phd c: but , it uh it would also maybe help be helpful for liz , if she wanted to start working on some discourse issues , you know , looking at some of this data and then , grad a: right . phd c: you know so when she gets here maybe that might be a good thing for her . grad a: actually , that 's another thing i was thinking about is that maybe jane should talk to liz , to see if there are any transcription issues related to discourse that she needs to get marked . postdoc e: ok . phd c: maybe we should have a big meeting meeting . phd b: sure , of course . undergrad d: that would be a meeting meeting meeting ? grad a: a meeting meeting meeting . phd c: yeah . grad a: well this is the meeting about the meeting meeting meeting . so . phd c: oh . grad a: um . phd c: right . but maybe we should , uh find some day that liz uh , liz and andreas seem to be around more often . grad a: mm - hmm . phd c: so maybe we should find a day when they 're gon na be here and and morgan 's gon na be here , and we can meet , at least this subgroup . i mean , not necessarily have the u - dub people down . grad a: well , i was even thinking that maybe we need to at least ping the u - dub to see phd c: we need we need to talk to them some more . grad a: you know , say `` this is what we 're thinking about for our transcription `` , if nothing else . so , well w shall we move on and talk a little bit about transcription then ? phd b: mm - hmm . let 's . phd c: yeah . grad a: ok , so { comment } since that 's what we 're talking about . what we 're using right now is a tool , um , from this french group , called `` transcriber `` that seems to work very well . um , so it has a , uh , nice useful tcl - tk user interface and , uh , undergrad d: thi - this is the process of converting audio to text ? grad a: right . undergrad d: and this requires humans just like the the stp stuff . grad a: yes , yeah . right , right . so we 're we 're at this point only looking for word level . so all all so what you have to do is just identify a segment of speech in time , and then write down what was said within it , and identify the speaker . and so the things we that we know that i know i want are the text , the start and end , and the speaker . but other people are interested in for example stress marking . and so jane is doing primary stress , um , stress marks as well . um , and then things like repairs , and false starts , and , filled pauses , and all that other sort of stuff , we have to decide how much of that we wan na do . postdoc e: i did include a glo { comment } uh , a certain first pass . my my view on it was when you have a repair then , uh it seems i mean , we saw , there was this presentation in the one of the speech group meetings about how grad a: mm - hmm . postdoc e: and i think liz has done some stuff too on that , that it , uh that you get it bracketed in terms of like well , if it 's parenthetical , which i know that liz has worked on , then uh y y you 'll have different prosodic aspects . grad a: mm - hmm . phd b: hmm . postdoc e: and then also if it 's a r if it 's a repair where they 're like what i just did , then it 's nice to have sort of a sense of the continuity of the utterance , the start to be to the finish . and , uh , it 's a little bit deceptive if you include the repai the pre - repair part and sometimes or of it 's in the middle . anyway , so what i was doing was bracketing them to indicate that they were repairs which is n't uh , very time - consuming . grad a: mm - hmm . undergrad d: i is there already some sort of plan in place for how this gon na be staffed or done ? or is it real is that what we 're talking about here ? grad a: well , that 's part of the thing we 're talking about . so what we wanted to do was have jane do basically one meeting 's worth , you know , forty minutes to an hour , postdoc e: mm - hmm . grad a: and postdoc e: as a pilot study . undergrad d: yourself ? grad a: yeah . undergrad d: it this is this is like five times real time or ten times real time postdoc e: yeah , as a pilot study . grad a: ten times about , is and so one of the things was to get an estimate of how long it would take , and then also what tools we would use . and so the next decision which has to be made actually pretty soon is how are we gon na do it ? so . undergrad d: and so you make jane do the first one so then she can decide , oh , we do n't need all this stuff , just the words are fine . postdoc e: that 's right , that 's right . phd b: that 's right . postdoc e: i wan na hear about these uh , we have a g you were s continuing with the transcription conventions for s grad a: r right , so so one one option is to get linguistics grad students and undergrads to do it . and apparently that 's happened in the past . and i think that 's probably the right way to do it . um , it will require a post pass , i mean people will have to look at it more than once to make sure that it 's been done correctly , but i just ca n't imagine that we 're gon na get anything that much better from a commercial one . and the commercial ones i 'm sure will be much more expensive . undergrad d: ca n't we get joy to do it all ? grad a: yeah right . postdoc e: no , that 's grad a: we will just get joy and jane to do everything . undergrad d: is tha was n't that what she was doing before ? yeah , that 's right . grad a: but , you know , that 's what we 're talking about is getting some slaves who who need money undergrad d: right . grad a: and , uh , duh , again o postdoc e: i object to that characterization ! phd b: oh , really . grad a: i meant joy . and so again , i have to say `` are we recording `` postdoc e: oh , thank you . ok . grad a: and then say , uh , morgan has has consistently resisted telling me how much money we have . undergrad d: right . well , the answer is zero . grad a: so . undergrad d: there 's a reason why he 's resisted . grad a: well , if it 's zero then we ca n't do any transcription . undergrad d: but . grad a: i mean , cuz we 're we undergrad d: right . phd b: i have such a hard name . grad a: i mean , i i ca n't imagine us doing it ourselves . right ? undergrad d: well , we already we already we already have a plan in place for the first meeting . grad a: n right . undergrad d: right ? that 's postdoc e: well th there is als yeah , really . there is also the o other possibility which is if you can provide not money but instructional experience or some other perks , you can you could get people to to um , to do it in exchange . grad a: right . undergrad d: well , i b but seriously , i i mean , morgan 's obviously in a bind over this and thing to do is just the field of dreams theory , which is we we go ahead as though there will be money at the time that we need the money . grad a: mm - hmm . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: and that 's that 's the best we can do . grad a: right . phd b: right . undergrad d: i b to not do anything until we get money is is ridiculous . grad a: right . undergrad d: we 're not gon na do any get anything done if we do that . postdoc e: mm - hmm . phd b: yeah . grad a: so at any rate , jane was looking into the possibility of getting students , at is that right ? talking to people about that ? postdoc e: i 'm afraid i have n't made any progress in that front yet . grad a: ok . postdoc e: i should 've sent email and i have n't yet . grad a: yeah , right . so , uh undergrad d: i d do so until you actually have a little experience with what this this french thing does we do n't even have postdoc e: and i do have grad a: she 's already done quite a bit . undergrad d: oh , we have . postdoc e: i have a bunch of hours , grad a: yeah . undergrad d: i 'm sorry . so that 's where you came up with the f the ten x number ? postdoc e: yeah . undergrad d: or is that really just a guess ? postdoc e: actually that 's the the one people usually use , ten x . phd c: how fast are you ? postdoc e: and i have n't really calculated how fast am i ? undergrad d: yeah i postdoc e: i have n't done a s see , i 've been at the same time doing kind of a boot strapping in deciding on the transcription conventions that that are you know , and and stuff like , you know , how much phd b: mmm . phd c: right . postdoc e: there 's some interesting human factors problems like , yeah , what span of of time is it useful to segment the thing into in order to uh , transcribe it the most quickly . phd b: yeah . postdoc e: cuz then , you know , you get like if you get a span of five words , that 's easy . phd b: yeah . postdoc e: but then you have to take the time to mark it . and then there 's the issue of it 's easier to hear it th right the first time if you 've marked it at a boundary instead of somewhere in the middle , phd b: mm - hmm . postdoc e: cuz then the word 's bisected or whatever and and so i mean , i 've been sort of playing with , uh , different ways of mar cuz i 'm thinking , you know , i mean , if you could get optimal instructions you could cut back on the number of hours it would take . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: d does uh this tool you 're using is strictly it does n't do any speech recognition does it ? grad a: no . postdoc e: no , it does n't but what a super tool . it 's a great environment . undergrad d: but but is there anyway to to wire a speech recognizer up to it and actually run it through postdoc e: that 's an interesting idea . grad a: we 've we 've thought about doing that postdoc e: hey ! grad a: but the recognition quality is gon na be horrendous . undergrad d: well , a couple things . phd b: wow . undergrad d: first of all the time marking you 'd get you could get by a tool . phd b: that 's true . undergrad d: and so if the if if the issue really postdoc e: that 's interesting . undergrad d: uh , i 'm think about the close caption that you see running by on on live news casts . grad a: most of those are done by a person . undergrad d: you know , yo i know i know that . postdoc e: yeah , i undergrad d: no , i understand . and in a lot of them you see typos and things like that , grad a: mm - hmm . undergrad d: but it but it occurs to me that it may be a lot easier to correct things than it is to do things from scratch , no matter how wonderful the tool is . grad a: yeah . yeah , we undergrad d: but if if there was a way to merge the two phd c: well , i mean , but sometimes it 's easier to type out something instead of going through and figuring out which is the right grad a: i mean , we 've talked about it postdoc e: that 'd be fun . grad a: but phd c: i mean , it depends on the error rate , right ? undergrad d: well s but but again the timing is for fr should be for free . the timing should be phd c: but we do n't care about the timing of the words . undergrad d: well i thought you just that 's said that was a critical issue . grad a: we do n't care about the timing of the words , just of the utterances . postdoc e: no , uh the the boundary phd c: we cut it s s phd b: we do n't we do n't know , actually . postdoc e: boundary . phd b: we have n't decided which which time we care about , and that 's kind of one of the things that you 're saying , is like you have the option to put in more or less timing data and , uh , be in the absence of more specific instructions , we 're trying to figure out what the most convenient thing to do is . grad a: yeah , so so what what she 's done so far , is sort of more or less breath g not breath groups , { comment } sort of phrases , continuous phrases . phd b: yeah . grad a: and so , um , that 's nice because you you separate when you do an extract , you get a little silence on either end . so that seems to work really well . postdoc e: that 's ideal . grad a: um . phd b: yeah . postdoc e: although i was i you know , the alternative , which i was sort of experimenting with before i ran out of time , recently was , um that , you know , ev if it were like an arbitrary segment of time i t pre - marked cuz it does take time to put those markings in . phd b: yeah . postdoc e: it 's really the i the interface is wonderful because , you know , the time it takes is you listen to it , and then you press the return key . but then , you know , it 's like , uh , you press the tab key to stop the flow and and , uh , the return key to p to put in a marking of the boundary . but , you know , obviously there 's a lag between when you hear it and when you can press the return key phd b: yeah . postdoc e: so it 's slightly delayed , so then you you listen to it a second time and move it over to here . undergrad d: a postdoc e: so that takes time . undergrad d: i a postdoc e: now if it could all be pre - marked at some , l you know , good undergrad d: ar but grad a: hmm . undergrad d: are are those d delays adjustable ? those delays adjustable ? see a lot of people who actually build stuff with human computer interfaces understand that delay , phd b: yeah . undergrad d: and and so when you by the time you click it it 'll be right on because it 'll go back in time to put the postdoc e: yeah . phd b: it could do that postdoc e: yeah , uh , not in this case . grad a: we could program that pretty easily , phd b: could n't it . postdoc e: it has other grad a: could n't we dan ? yeah , mis mister tcl ? phd b: yeah . postdoc e: oh , interesting point . phd b: i would have thought so , yeah . postdoc e: ah ! { comment } interesting point . phd b: mmm . postdoc e: ok , that would make a difference . grad a: but , um postdoc e: i mean , it 's not bad grad a: but , if we tried to do automatic speaker id . postdoc e: but it does take twice . grad a: i mean , cuz primarily the markings are at speaker change . phd b: yeah , yeah , but grad a: but that would be phd b: but we 've got we 've got the most channel data . we 'd have to do it from your signal . right . i mean , we 've we 've got we 've got a lot of data . postdoc e: oh , good point ! ah ! grad a: yeah , i guess the question is how much time will it really save us versus the time to write all the tools to do it . postdoc e: we 've got volume . phd b: right . but the chances are if we if we 're talking about collecting ten or a hundred hours , which is going to take a hundred or a thousand hours to transcribe undergrad d: if grad a: but undergrad d: if we can go from ten x to five x we 're doing a big grad a: we 're gon na need we 're gon na need ten to a hundred hours to train the tools , and validate the tools the do the d to to do all this anyway . phd c: right . so maybe postdoc e: wow . phd b: if we 're just doing silence detection postdoc e: but but it op grad a: i knew you were gon na do that . just saw it coming . postdoc e: i 'm sorry . i wish you had told me wish you 'd told me . undergrad d: put put it on your sweater . postdoc e: at what part ? ok , i 'm alright . phd b: um , i it seems like well , uh , i do n't know . yeah . i mean , it it 's it 's maybe like a week 's work to get to do something like this . so forty or fifty hours . phd c: right . postdoc e: could you get it so that with so it would it would detect volume on a channel and insert a marker ? and the the format 's really transparent . phd b: sure . phd c: yeah . postdoc e: it 's just a matter of a very c clear it 's xml , is n't it ? grad a: mm - hmm . postdoc e: it 's very i mean , i looked at the the file format and it 's just it has a t a time a time indication and then something or other , and then an end time or something or other . phd c: so maybe maybe we could try the following experiment . take the data that you 've already transcribed postdoc e: mm - hmm . phd c: and undergrad d: is this already in the past or already in the future ? phd c: already in the past . undergrad d: you 've already you 've already done some ? grad a: she 's she 's done about half a meeting . phd c: she she 's done one she 's one postdoc e: yes i have . undergrad d: oh - oh , i see . phd c: right . undergrad d: ok , grad a: right ? phd c: right . undergrad d: good . grad a: about half ? phd c: i 'm go postdoc e: s i 'm not sure if it 's that 's much but anyway , enough to work with . phd c: right . phd b: several minutes . phd c: um , and and throw out the words , but keep the time markings . and then go through i mean , and go through and and try and re - transcribe it , given that we had perfect boundary detection . postdoc e: ok . good idea . phd c: and see if it see if it see if it feels easier to you . postdoc e: ok . undergrad d: and forgetting all the words because you 've been thr postdoc e: yeah , that 's what i was thinking . i 'd i 'd be cheating a little bit g with familiarity effect . phd c: yeah , i mean uh , that 's part of the problem is , is that what we really need is somebody else to come along . phd b: well , no , you should do it you should do it do it again from scratch and then do it again at the boundaries . so you do the whole thing three times and then we get phd c: yeah . postdoc e: no . now , there 's a plan . undergrad d: and then then w since we need some statistics do it three more . postdoc e: ok . undergrad d: and so you 'll get you 'll get down to one point two x by the time you get done . postdoc e: oh , yeah . i 'll do that tomorrow . i should have it finished by the end of the day . undergrad d: no , but the thing is the fact that she 's she 's did it before just might give a lower bound . that 's all . phd b: yeah . phd c: right . undergrad d: uh , which is fine . postdoc e: exactly . undergrad d: it 's and if the lower bound is nine x then w it 's a waste of time . postdoc e: yeah . phd c: right . postdoc e: well , uh but there 's an extra problem which is that i did n't really keep accurate phd b: oh ! postdoc e: uh , it was n't a pure task the first time , phd b: yeah . postdoc e: so uh , it 's gon na be an upper bound in in that case . and it 's not really strictly comparable . so i think though it 's a good proposal to be used on a new a new batch of text that i have n't yet done yet in the same meeting . could use it on the next segment of the text . phd b: the point we where do we get the the the oracle boundaries from ? phd c: right . phd b: or the boundaries . grad a: yeah , one person would have to assign the boundaries and the and the other person would have to postdoc e: well , but could n't i do it for the next phd b: we we we could get fake grad a: i mean that 's easy enough . postdoc e: oh , i see what you mean . grad a: i could do that . postdoc e: well , but the oracle boundaries would come from volume on a partic specific channel would n't they ? grad a: no , no . phd b: that would be the automatic boundaries . phd c: no , no , no , no . you wan na know given given a perfect human segmentation , i mean , you wan na know how well postdoc e: yeah . phd c: i mean , the the question is , is it worth giving you the segmentation ? postdoc e: oh , i see what you mean . grad a: i mean , that that 's easy enough . phd c: right . postdoc e: yeah . grad a: i could generate the segmentation and and you could do the words , and time yourself on it . so . undergrad d: a little double - blind - ear kind of thing . grad a: yep . postdoc e: i see . ok . grad a: so it that might be worth doing . postdoc e: that 's good . i like that . grad a: that would at least tell us whether it 's worth spending a week or two trying to get a tool , that will compute the segmentations . phd c: right . undergrad d: and the thing to keep in mind too about this tool , guys is that sure , you can do the computation for what we 're gon na do in the future but if if uw 's talking about doing two , or three , or five times as much stuff and they can use the same tool , then obviously there 's a real multiplier there . grad a: right . postdoc e: and the other thing too is with with speaker identification , if if that could handle speaker identification that 's a big deal . phd b: well it w phd c: right . undergrad d: well , use it . yeah , that 's why we s bought the expensive microphones . postdoc e: ok . yeah , i mean , that 's a nice feature . grad a: yep . phd b: yeah , yeah . postdoc e: that 's a major that 's like , one of the two things that phd c: i mean , there 's gon na there 's gon na be in the meeting , like the reading group meeting that we had the other day , that 's it 's gon na be a bit of a problem phd b: ok . phd c: because , like , i was n't wearing a microphone phd b: yes . phd c: f and there were other people that were n't wearing microphones . grad a: that undergrad d: but you did n't say anything worth while anyway , right ? grad a: that 'll s phd b: right . phd c: that 's pretty much true postdoc e: yeah . grad a: it might save ninety percent of the work though . phd c: but but , yes . grad a: so . phd b: so i i need to we need to look at what what the final output is but it seems like we it does n't it seems like it 's not really not that hard to have an automatic tool to generate the phrase marks , and the speaker , and speaker identity without putting in the words . grad a: yeah . i 've already become pretty familiar with the format , postdoc e: that 'd be so great . grad a: so it would be easy . phd b: mm - hmm . postdoc e: yeah . yeah . grad a: if you 'd tell me where it is , huh ? postdoc e: we did n't finish the the part of work already completed on this , did we ? i mean , you you talked a little bit about the transcription conventions , grad a: mm - hmm . postdoc e: and , i guess you 've mentioned in your progress report , or status report , that you had written a script to convert it into so , i when i i the it 's quickest for me in terms of the transcription part to say something like , you know , if if adam spoke to , um to just say , `` a colon `` , like who could be , you know , i mean at the beginning of the line . phd b: mmm . postdoc e: and e colon instead of entering the interface for speaker identification and clicking on the thing , uh , indicating the speaker id . so , and then he has a script that will convert it into the the thing that , uh , would indicate speaker id . grad a: it 's pretty cute . postdoc e: if that 's clear . phd c: ok . grad a: but at any rate . so , um , postdoc e: it 's perl script . grad a: right . so so i think the guess at ten x seems to be pretty standard . everyone more or less everyone you talk to says about ten times for hard technical transcription . postdoc e: mm - hmm . undergrad d: using wh using stone age postdoc e: yeah . undergrad d: using stone age tools . postdoc e: that 's right . grad a: using using stone age tools . i mean , i looked at cyber transcriber postdoc e: yeah , well that 's true , but grad a: which is a service that you send an audio file , they do a first - pass speech recognition . and then they they do a clean up . but it 's gon na be horrible . they 're never gon na be able to do a meeting like this . phd b: no . undergrad d: right . postdoc e: what i just approximately , what did you find out in terms of price or or whatever ? grad a: well , for cyber transcriber they do n't quote a price . they want you to call and and talk . so for other services , um , they were about thirty dollars an hour . postdoc e: of of tape ? grad a: thirty so , yeah . postdoc e: or of action ? grad a: for thirty dollars an hour for of their work . postdoc e: ok . ok . oh , of their grad a: so so if it 's ten times it 's three hundred dollars an hour . postdoc e: oh ! phd c: so that 's three that 's three hours . postdoc e: ok . undergrad d: d did you talk to anybody that does closed captioning for for uh , tv ? phd c: right . grad a: no . undergrad d: cuz they a usually at the end of the show they 'll tell what the name of the company is , the captioning company that 's doing it . grad a: mm - hmm . yeah , so so my my search was pretty cursory . postdoc e: interesting . grad a: it was just a net search . and , uh , so it was only people who have web pages and are doing stuff through that . undergrad d: well , you know , the the thing the thing about this is thinking kind of , maybe a little more globally than i should here but { comment } that really this could be a big contribution we could make . uh , i mean , we 've been through the stp thing , we know what it what it 's like to to manage the manage the process , and admittedly they might have been looking for more detail than what we 're looking for here but it was a it was a big hassle , right ? phd b: yeah . undergrad d: i mean , uh , you know , they they constantly could 've reminding people and going over it . and clearly some new stuff needs to be done here . and it 's it 's only our time , where `` our `` of course includes dan , dan and you guys . it does n't include me at all . uh . j just seems like phd b: yeah , i mean i do n't know if we 'd be able to do any thing f to help stp type problems . but certainly for this problem we can do a lot better than undergrad d: bec why ? because they wanted a lot more detail ? grad a: right . phd b: no . because they had because they only had two speakers , right ? i mean , the the segmentation problem is grad a: trivial . undergrad d: only had two . grad a: they had two speakers over the telephone . undergrad d: oh , i see . so what took them so long ? grad a: um , mostly because they were doing much lower level time . phd b: yeah . grad a: so they were doing phone and syllable transcription , as well as , uh , word transcription . undergrad d: right . right . phd c: right . postdoc e: mm - hmm . grad a: and so we 're w we decided early on that we were not gon na do that . undergrad d: i see . but there 's still the same issue of managing the process , of of reviewing and keeping the files straight , and all this stuff , that which is clearly a hassle . grad a: yep . phd b: yeah . grad a: right . and so so what i 'm saying is that if we hire an external service i think we can expect three hundred dollars an hour . phd b: yeah . grad a: i think that 's the ball park . there were several different companies that and the the range was very tight for technical documents . twenty - eight to thirty - two dollars an hour . phd c: and who who knows if they 're gon na be able to m manage multal multiple channel data ? phd b: yeah , they wo n't . grad a: they wo n't . phd b: they w they 'll refuse to do it . grad a: we 'll have to mix them . postdoc e: mm - hmm . phd b: yeah . phd c: right . phd b: no , but i mean , they they they wo n't they wo n't they will refuse to transcribe this kind of material . postdoc e: and then there 's the problem also that phd b: that 's not what they 're d quoting for , right ? grad a: yes , it is . undergrad d: well , they might they might quote it phd b: for quoting meetings ? grad a: sev - several of them say that they 'll do meetings , and conferences , and s and so on . none of them specifically said that they would do speaker id , or speaker change mark . phd b: wow . yeah . grad a: they all just said transcription . undergrad d: th - th the th there may be just multiplier for five people costs twice as much and for ten people co { comment } something like that . phd b: yeah , yeah , yeah . grad a: well , the the way it worked is it it was scaled . so what they had is , if it 's an easy task it costs twenty - four dollars an hour and it will take maybe five or six times real time . and what they said is for the hardest tasks , bad acoustics , meeting settings , it 's thirty - two dollars an hour and it takes about ten times real time . so i think that we can count on that being about what they would do . phd b: i see . yeah . grad a: it would probably be a little more phd b: right . postdoc e: yeah . grad a: because we 're gon na want them to do speaker marking . undergrad d: a lot of companies i 've worked for y the , uh the person leading the meeting , the executive or whatever , would sort of go around the room and and mentally calculate h how many dollars per hour this meeting was costing , grad a: so . undergrad d: right ? in university atmosphere you get a little different thing . but you know , it 's a lot like , `` he 's worth fifty an hour , he 's worth `` and so he so here we 're thinking , `` well let 's see , if the meeting goes another hour it 's going to be another thousand dollars . `` you know ? it 's grad a: yep , we have to have a short meeting . undergrad d: so ch so every everybody ta talk really fast . postdoc e: that 's very interesting . grad a: stop talking ! phd b: yeah . undergrad d: let 's get it over with . postdoc e: talk slowly but with few words . grad a: and clearly . phd b: that 's right . undergrad d: and only talk when you 're pointed to . postdoc e: there you go . grad a: content words only . postdoc e: we could have some telegraphic meetings . that might be interesting . phd b: yeah , it 'd be cheap . undergrad d:  phd b: cheap to transcribe . grad a: so . but at any rate , so we we have a ballpark on how much it would cost if we send it out . undergrad d: and we 're talking about do doing how many hours worth of meetings ? grad a: thirty or forty . undergrad d: so thirty or forty thousand dollars . phd b: well , for ten thousand dollars . postdoc e: yeah . phd c: so , meanwhile undergrad d: oh . what well , it was thirty times phd b: three hundred . grad a: three hundred dollars an hour . undergrad d: oh , i 'm sorry , three hundred . grad a: right . undergrad d: right , i w got an extra factor of three there . phd c: so it 's thirty dollars an hour , essentially , right ? undergrad d: yeah . phd c: but we can pay a graduate student seven dollars an hour . and the question is what 's the difference phd b: how how much lower are they ? phd c: or ei eight dollars . what do you know what the going rate is ? it 's it 's on the order of eight to ten . postdoc e: i think uh that would give us a a good good estimate . phd c: i think . but i 'm not sure . postdoc e: i 'd i 'd say phd b: ten . postdoc e: yeah , i was gon na say eight you 'd say ten ? phd c: let 's say ten . phd b: yeah , give them a break . phd c: cuz it 's easier . undergrad d: the - these are not for engineering graduate students , right ? grad a: right , these are linguistics grad students . six . phd c: yeah , i i i do n't i do n't know what the i do n't know what the standard undergrad d: that 's right . phd c: but there is a standard pay scale grad a: mm - hmm . phd c: i just do n't know what it is . postdoc e: yeah , that 's right . that 's right . phd c: um , so that means that even if it takes them thirty times real time it 's cheaper to to do graduate students . postdoc e: and there 's another aspect too . grad a: i mean , that 's why i said originally , that i could n't imagine sending it out 's gon na be cheaper . phd b: no , it is n't . so . postdoc e: the other thing too is that , uh , if they were linguistics they 'd be you know , in terms of like the post editing , i uh tu uh content wise they might be easier to handle cuz they might get it more right the first time . grad a: and also we would have control of i mean , we could give them feedback . whereas if we do a service it 's gon na be limited amount . phd b: yep , yep . postdoc e: mmm . grad a: i mean , we ca n't tell them , you know , `` for this meeting we really wan na mark stress postdoc e: good point . phd b: yep . grad a: and for this meeting we want `` phd b: no . postdoc e: good point . grad a: and and they 're not gon na provide they 're not gon na provide stress , they 're not gon na re provide repairs , they 're not gon na provide they they may or may not provide speaker id . so that we would have to do our own tools to do that . so postdoc e: mm - hmm . grad a: i just phd b: yeah . undergrad d: just hypoth hypothetically assuming that that we go ahead and ended up using graduate students . i who who 's the person in charge ? who 's gon na be the steve here ? grad a: i hope it 's jane . undergrad d: you ? grad a: is that alright ? postdoc e: oh , interesting . um , now would this involve some manner of uh , monetary compensation or would i be the voluntary , uh , coordinator of multiple transcribers for checking ? grad a: um , i would imagine there would be some monetary involved but we 'd have to talk to morgan about it . phd b: yeah , out of out of adam 's pocket . phd c: yeah . postdoc e: ok . undergrad d: you know , it just means you have to stop working for dave . see ? postdoc e: oh , undergrad d: that 's why dave should have been here . postdoc e: i do n't wan na stop working for dave . undergrad d: to pr protect his people . grad a: well , i would like you to do it because you have a lot more experience than i do , postdoc e: oh , cool . yeah . grad a: but if if that 's not feasible , i will do it with you as an advisor . postdoc e: uh - huh . undergrad d: w we 'd like you to do it and we 'd like to pay you . postdoc e: we 'll see . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: not being morgan though , it 's postdoc e: ok . phd c: right . postdoc e: oh , i see . phd b: we 'd like to . unfortunately postdoc e: well undergrad d: yeah . postdoc e: yeah . grad a: yeah , six dollars an hour . postdoc e: yeah , i see . phd c: that 's a undergrad d: and and then postdoc e: ok . boy , if i wanted to increase my income i could start doing the transcribing again . phd b: yeah , that 's right . yeah . undergrad d: an an an and be and be sure and say , would you like fries with that when you 're thinking about your pay scale . postdoc e: i see . good . yeah , no , that i i would be interested in that in becoming involved in the project in some aspect like that grad a: ok . more . postdoc e: more . yeah . uh - huh . yeah . grad a: um , any more on transcript we wan na talk about ? phd b: what s so what are you so you 've done some portion of the first meeting . and what 's your plan ? postdoc e: yes . mm - hmm . phd b: to carry on doing it ? postdoc e: what well , you know what i thought was right now we have p so i gave him the proposal for the transcription conventions . he made his , uh , suggestion of improvement . phd b: ok . postdoc e: the the it 's a good suggestion . so as far as i 'm concerned those transcription conventions are fixed right now . and so my next plan would be phd b: what what do they what do they cover ? postdoc e: they 're very minimal . so , it would be good to just to summarize that . so , um , one of them is the idea of how to indicate speaker change , phd b: yeah . postdoc e: and this is a way which meshes well with with , uh , making it so that , uh , you know , on the at the phd b: yeah . postdoc e: boy , it 's such a nice interface . when you when you get the , um you you get the speech signal you also get down beneath it , an indication of , uh , if you have two speakers overlapping in a s in a single segment , you see them one displayed one above each other . and then at the same time the top s part of the screen is the actual verbatim thing . you can clip click on individual utterances and it 'll take you immediately to that part of the speech signal , and play it for you . and you can , eh you can work pretty well between those two these two things . undergrad d: is there a limit to the number of speakers ? grad a: um , the user interface only allows two . and so if if you 're using their interface to specify overlapping speakers you can only do two . phd b: hmm . grad a: but my script can handle any . and their save format can handle any . and so , um , using this the convention that jane and i have discussed , you can have as many overlapping speakers as you want . undergrad d: do y is this a , uh , university project ? phd b: yeah . undergrad d: th - this is the french software , right ? grad a: yeah , french . phd b: yeah , yeah , grad a: yeah . and they 're they 've been quite responsive . phd b: their academic . undergrad d: eh grad a: i 've been exchanging emails on various issues . phd b: oh , really ? undergrad d: uh , did you ask them to change the interface for more speakers ? postdoc e: oh . grad a: yes , and they said that 's on in in the works for the next version . undergrad d: good . phd c: oh , so multi multichannels . undergrad d: good . grad a: multichannels was also well , they said they wanted to do it but that the code is really very organized around single channels . so i think that 's n unlikely to ha happen . phd c: i see . ok . undergrad d: do - do you know what they 're using it for ? why 'd they develop it ? grad a: for this exact task ? phd c: for transcription . undergrad d: are they linguists ? phd c: it 's undergrad d: but i mean , are they are they linguists or are they speech recognition people ? grad a: i think they 're linguists . postdoc e: ho phd b: linguists . postdoc e: hmm . phd b: yeah . phd c: they 're they have some connection to the ldc cuz the ldc has been advising them on this process , the linguistic data consortium . um , undergrad d: mm - hmm . phd c: so but a apart from that . grad a: it 's also all the source is available . phd c: yeah . grad a: so . phd c: right . grad a: if you if you speak tcltk . undergrad d: great . mm - hmm . grad a: and they have they 've actually asked if we are willing to do any development and i said , well , maybe . phd c: right . undergrad d: good . grad a: so if we want if we did if we did something like programmed in a delay , which actually i think is a great idea , um , i 'm sure they would want that incorporated back in . postdoc e: mm - hmm . yeah , i do too . phd b: mm - hmm . undergrad d: their pre pre - lay . phd b: pre - lay . grad a: way . postdoc e: pre - lay . well , and they 've thought about things . you know , i mean , they they do have so you have when you when you play it back , um , it 's it is useful to have , uh , a a break mark to se segment it . but it would n't be strictly necessary cuz you can use the uh , the tabbed key to toggle the sound on and off . i mean , it 'll stop the s speech you know if you if you press a tab . and , um . and so , uh , that 's a nice feature . and then also once you 've put a break in then you have the option of cycling through the unit . you could do it like multiply until you get { comment } crazy and decide to stop cycling through that unit . undergrad d: loop it ? yo - you n you know , there 's al also the the user interface that 's missing . postdoc e: or or or undergrad d: it 's missing from all of our offices , and that is some sort of analog input for something like this . it 's what audio people actually use of course . it 's something that wh when you move your hand further , the sound goes faster past it , like fast forward . you know , like a joy stick or a uh , you could wire a mouse or trackball to do something like that . postdoc e: why , that 's that 's not something i wanted to have happen . undergrad d: no , but i 'm saying if this is what professionals who actually do this kind of thing for for for m for video or for audio where you you need to do this , postdoc e: i see . uh - huh . undergrad d: and so you get very good at sort of jostling back and forth , rather than hitting tab , and backspace , and carriage return , and enter , and things like that . phd b: mmm . mmm . postdoc e: uh - huh . grad a: yeah , we talked about things like foot pedals and other analog phd c: yeah . undergrad d: mm - hmm . grad a: so i mean , tho those are things we could do but i i just do n't know how much it 's worth doing . i mean we 're just gon na have undergrad d: ye - yeah . phd c: yeah . undergrad d: right . postdoc e: yeah , i i agree . they they have several options . so , uh , you know , i mentioned the looping option . another option is it 'll pause when it reaches the end of the boundary . and then to get to the next boundary you just press tab grad a: hmm . postdoc e: and it goes on to the next unit . undergrad d: cool . postdoc e: i mean , it 's very nicely thought out . phd c: hmm . postdoc e: they thought about and also it 'll go around the c the , uh , i wan na say cursor but i 'm not sure if that 's the right thing . grad a: point , whatever . postdoc e: anyway , you can so they thought about different ways of having windows that you c uh work within , phd b: mm - hmm . postdoc e: and but so in terms of the con the conventions , then , uh , basically , uh , it 's strictly orthographic which means with some w provisions for , uh , w uh , colloquial forms . so if a person said , `` cuz `` instead of `` because `` then i put a an apostrophe at the beginning of the word and then in in double ang angle brackets what the full lexical item would be . phd b: mm - hmm . postdoc e: and this could be something that was handled by a table or something but i think to have a convention marking it as a non - standard or wha i do n't mean standard but a a a non uh , ortho orthographic , uh , whatever . phd b: mm - hmm . grad a: non - canonical . phd c: mm - hmm . postdoc e: `` gon na `` or `` wan na `` , you know , the same thing . and and there would be limits to how much refinement you want in indicating something as non - standard pres pronunciation . phd c: how are you handling backchannels ? postdoc e: backchannels ? grad a: comments . postdoc e: um , you know oh , yes , there was some in my view , when i when you 've got it densely overlapping , um , i did n't worry about i did n't worry about s specific start times . phd c: what do you mean by du postdoc e: i sort of thought that this is not gon na be { comment } easily processed anyway and maybe i should n't spend too much time getting exactly when the person said `` no `` , or , you know , uh , i `` immediate `` . phd b: yeah . postdoc e: and instead just sort of rendered `` within this time slot , there were two people speaking during part of it phd b: yeah . postdoc e: and if you want more detail , figure it out for yourself `` , phd b: mm - hmm . grad a: well , i think what w what eric was talking about was channels other than the direct speech , phd c: i see . postdoc e: was sort of the way i felt @ @ grad a: right ? phd c: well , yeah , what i mean is wh i mean , when somebody says `` uh - huh `` in the middle of , uh , a @ @ grad a: yep . postdoc e: uh - huh . that happened very seldom . phd c: oh , cuz i was i was listening to dan was agreeing a lot to things that you were saying as you were talking . undergrad d: uh - huh . uh - huh . postdoc e: oh , well , thank you dan . phd c: so . postdoc e: appreciate it . well , if it if there was a word like `` right `` , you know , then i wou i would indicate that it happened within the same tem time frame grad a: yeah , there 's an overlapping mark . phd c: and phd b: yeah . postdoc e: but would n't say exactly when it happened . undergrad d: i 'll be right back . phd b: i transcribed a minute of this stuff phd c: i see . phd b: and there was a lot of overlapping . it was postdoc e: a lot of overlapping , yeah . grad a: well there there 's a lot of overlapping at the beginning and end . phd b: yeah . yeah . grad a: huge amounts . phd b: it was at the beginning . grad a: um , when when no one i when we 're not actually in the meeting , and we 're all sort of separated , and and doing things . but even during the meeting there 's a lot of overlap but it it 's marked pretty clearly . um , some of the backchannel stuff jane had some comments and but i think a lot of them were because you were at the meeting . and so i think that that often often you ca n't tell . postdoc e: yeah , well that 's true . that 's another issue . grad a: i mean , jane had had comments like uh , to who who the person was speaking to . phd c: yeah . postdoc e: yeah . phd b: mm - hmm . postdoc e: only when it was otherwise gon na be puzzling grad a: yeah . postdoc e: because he was in the other room talking . grad a: yeah , but someone who , uh , was just the transcriber would n't have known that . postdoc e: yeah . grad a: or when dan said , `` i wa i was n't talking to you `` . phd c: right . postdoc e: that 's true . i know . undergrad d: so you take a bathroom break in the middle and and keep your head mount grad a: you have to turn off your mike . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: oh , you do ? phd b: you do n't have to . postdoc e: well he was so so he was checking the meter levels and and we were handling things while he was labeling the the whatever it was , the pda ? grad a: mm - hmm . phd b: uh - huh . postdoc e: and and so he was in sort of you were sort of talking you know , so i was saying , like `` and i could label this one left . right ? `` and he and he said , `` i do n't see anything `` . and he said he said , `` i was n't talking to you `` . or it was n't it did n't sound quite that rude . grad a: but postdoc e: but really , no , uh w you know in the context if you know he ca n't hear what he 's saying grad a: but when you w when you listen to it undergrad d: he he it was a lot funnier if you were there though . postdoc e: uh , yeah , grad a: well what what it what happens is if you 're a transcriber listening to it it sounds like dan is just being a total totally impolite . postdoc e: i know . well , you 'll see . you can listen to it . oh , i thought it was you who was . no , well , but you were you were asking off the wall questions . grad a: um but but if you knew that that i was n't actually in the room , and that dan was n't talking to me , it it became ok . so . phd b: i see . undergrad d: so th postdoc e: and that 's w that 's where i added comments . phd c: hmm . postdoc e: the rest of the time i did n't bother with who was talking to who but but this was unusual circum circumstance . undergrad d: so this is this is gon na go on the meeting meeting transcriber bloopers tape , right ? grad a: yes . right . postdoc e: well and part of it was funny , uh reason was because it was a mixed signal so you could n't get any clues from volume that , you know , he was really far away from this conversation . grad a: stereo . yeah . postdoc e: you could n't do that symmetrically in any case . phd b: no . grad a: oh . i should rewrite the mix tool to put half the people in one channel and half in the other . i have a auto - gain - mixer tool that mixes all the head mounted microphones into one signal postdoc e: that 's a good idea . undergrad d: mm - hmm . grad a: and that seems to work really well for the uh transcribers . undergrad d: great . postdoc e: but i thought it would be you know , i i did n't wan na add more contextual comments than were needed but that , it seemed to me , clarified that the con what was going on . and , uh ok , phd c: so , s postdoc e: so normalization phd c: i was just gon na ask , uh , so i just wanted to c sort of finish off the question i had about backchannels , phd b: mmm . phd c: if that 's ok , postdoc e: yeah . ok . phd c: which which was , so say somebody 's talking for a while postdoc e: yeah . phd c: and somebody goes `` mm - hmm `` in the middle of it , and and and what not , does the conversation come out from the or the person who 's speaking for the long time as one segment and then there 's this little tiny segment of this other speaker or does it does the fact that there 's a backchannel split the the the it in two . postdoc e: ok , my my focus was to try and maintain conten con content continuity and , uh , to keep it within what he was saying . like i would n't say breath groups but prosodic or intonational groups as much as possible . so if someone said `` mm - hmm `` in the middle of a of someone 's , uh , uh , intonational contour , i i indicated it as , like what you just did . phd c: ok . postdoc e: then i indicated it as a segment which contained @ @ { comment } this utterance plus an overlap . phd b: but that 's but there 's only one there 's only one time boundary for both speakers , phd c: ok . phd b: right ? postdoc e: yeah , that 's right . and you know , it could be made more precise than that phd c: i see , postdoc e: but i just thought phd c: i see , ok . postdoc e: yeah . phd c: right . undergrad d: i think whenever we use these speech words we should always do the thing like you 're talking about , accent , postdoc e: oh , i see what you mean . and then `` hesitation `` . yeah . ok , and so then , uh , in terms of like words like `` uh `` and `` um `` i just wrote them because i figured there 's a limited number , and i keep them to a uh , limited set because it did n't matter if it was `` mmm `` or `` um `` , { comment } you know , versus `` um `` . so i just always wrote it as u m . phd b: ok . postdoc e: and `` uh - huh `` , you know , `` uhuh . `` i mean , like a s set of like five . but in any case i did n't mark those . phd b: no . phd c: mm - hmm . phd b: `` uh - huh `` is `` u h h u h . `` h u h . `` postdoc e: i 'd be happy with that . that 'd be fine . it 'd be good to have that in the in the conventions , what 's to be used . phd c: huh - uh . grad a: i i did notice that there were some segments that had pauses on the beginning and end . we should probably mark areas that have no speakers as no speaker . then , so question mark colon is fine for that . postdoc e: yeah , that 's a fine idea . that 's a fine idea . grad a: just say silence . undergrad d: well , what 's that mean ? postdoc e: yeah , ok . yeah . undergrad d: you mean re grad a: no one 's talking . undergrad d: ye s oh . silence all around . grad a: yep . undergrad d: yep . phd b: we have to mark those ? postdoc e: so i had phd b: do n't they d ca n't we just leave them unmarked ? postdoc e: i d well , you see , that 's possible too . grad a: well , i wan na leave the marked i do n't want them to be part of another utterance . so you just you need to have the boundary at the start and the end . phd b: ok . sure . postdoc e: mm - hmm . now that 's refinement that , uh , maybe it could be handled by part of the part of the script or something more phd b: uh , yeah , it seems like it seems like the , uh , tran the transcription problem would be very different if we had these automatic speaker detection turn placing things . because suddenly i mean , i do n't know , actually it sounds like there might be a problem putting it into the software if the software only handles two parallel channels . but assuming we can get around that somehow . postdoc e: mm - hmm . well you were saying , i think it can read grad a: it can read and write as many as you want , it 's just that it postdoc e: uh - huh . phd b: but what if you wan na edit it ? right ? i mean , the point is we 're gon na generate this transcript with five five tracks in it , but with no words . someone 's gon na have to go in and type in the words . um , and if there are five five people speaking at once , grad a: right , i it 's i did n't explain it well . if we use the the little the conventions that jane has established , i have a script that will convert from that convention to their saved convention . phd b: oh , yeah . yes . postdoc e: which allows five . grad a: right . postdoc e: and it can be m edited after the fact , grad a: yes . postdoc e: ca n't it also ? but their but their format , if you wanted to in indicate the speakers right there instead of doing it through this indirect route , then i they a c window comes up and it only allows you to enter two speakers . phd b: yeah . right . undergrad d: but you 're saying that by the time you call it back in to from their saved format it opens up a window with window with five speakers ? postdoc e: so . but . grad a: right . undergrad d: oh ! that is sort of f grad a: it 's just user interface . undergrad d: they did n't quite go the whole grad a: so i it 's undergrad d: yeah , they did n't go the whole route , grad a: the the the whole saved form the saved format and the internal format , all that stuff , handles multiple speakers . undergrad d: did they ? they just grad a: it 's just there 's no user interface for specifying multiple any more than two . undergrad d: right . so your your script solves does n't it solve all our problems , postdoc e: and that grad a: yep . undergrad d: cuz we 're always gon na wan na go through this preprocessing grad a: yep . undergrad d: uh , assuming it works . grad a: yep . postdoc e: and that works nicely cuz this so quick to enter . so i would n't wan na do it through the interface anyway adding which worry who the speaker was . grad a: yep . undergrad d: i see . right . good . postdoc e: and then , uh , let 's see what else . oh , yes , i i wanted to have so sometimes a pers i uh in terms of like the continuity of thought for transcriptions , it 's i it is n't just words coming out , it 's like there 's some purpose for an utterance . and sometimes someone will do a backchannel in the middle of it but you wan na show that it 's continued at a later point . so i have i have a convention of putting like a dash arrow just to indicate that this person 's utterance continues . and then when it uh , catches back up again then there 's an arrow dash , and then you have the opposite direction to indicate continuation of ones own utterance versus , um , sometimes we had the situation which is you know , which you which you get in conversations , { comment } of someone continuing someone else 's utterance , phd b: mmm . postdoc e: and in that case i did a tilde arrow versus a arrow tilde , to indicate that it was continuation but it was n't oh , i guess i did equal arrow for the for the own for yourself things phd b: mm - hmm . postdoc e: cuz it 's the speakers the same . and then tilde arrow if it was a different if a different speaker , uh , con continuation . phd b: mmm . grad a: oh . postdoc e: but just , you know , the arrows showing continuation of a thought . phd b: mm - hmm . postdoc e: and then you could track whether it was the same speaker or not by knowing you know , at the end of this unit you 'd know what happened later . and that was like this person continued phd b: mm - hmm . postdoc e: and you 'd be able to look for the continuation . grad a: so phd b: but the only time that becomes ambiguous is if you have two speakers . like , if you if you only have one person , if you only have one thought that 's continuing across a particular time boundary , you just need one arrow at each end , and if it 's picked up by a different speaker , it 's picked up by a different speaker . the time it becomes ambiguous if you have more than one speaker and that and they sort of swap . i guess if you have more than one thread going , then you then you need to know whether they were swapped or not . postdoc e: mm - hmm . mm - hmm . phd c: how often does that happen do you think ? postdoc e: mm - hmm . phd b: hopefully not very much . postdoc e: yeah , i did n't use it very often . grad a: especially for meetings . i mean , if i if you were just recording someone 's day , it would be impossible . you know , undergrad d: it l ou grad a: if you were trying to do a remembrance agent . but i think for meetings it 's probably alright . phd c: hmm . grad a: but , a lot of these issues , i think that for uh , from my point of view , where i just wan na do speech recognition and information retrieval , it does n't really matter . phd b: sure . grad a: but other people have other interests . phd b: i know . grad a: so . phd b: but it it does feel it does feel like it 's really in there . i you know i did this i did this transcription and i marked that , i marked it with ellipsis because it seemed like there was a difference . it 's something you wanted to indicate that it that i this was the end of the phrase , this was the end of that particular transcript , but it was continued later . grad a: right . phd b: and i picked up with an ellipsis . postdoc e: excellent . yeah . phd b: i did n't have the equal , not equal thing . postdoc e: yeah . well that 's you know , i mean i that 's why i did n't { comment } i did n't do it n i mean , that 's why i thought about it , and and re - ev phd b: yeah , yeah . postdoc e: and it did n't do i did n't do it in ten times the the time . grad a: well , so anyway , are we interested then in writing tools to try to generate any of this stuff automatically ? postdoc e: yeah . grad a: is that something you want to do , dan ? phd b: no . grad a: no . phd b: but it 's something @ @ that i feel we definitely ought to do . postdoc e: i also wanted to ask you if you have a time estimate on the part that you transcribed . do you have a sense of how long phd b: yeah , it took me half an hour to transcribe a minute , but i did n't have any i did n't even have a postdoc e: ok . phd b: i was trying to get transcriber to run but i could n't . so i was doing it by typ typing into a text file and trying to fit it was horrible . postdoc e: ok . ok . undergrad d: so thirty to one 's what you got ? phd b: mm - hmm . undergrad d: so that 's a new upper limit ? phd b: yeah . postdoc e: well , i mean , that 's that 's because you did n't have the segmentation help and all the other grad a: but i think for a first try that 's about right . phd b: is it phd c: so so if we hired a who if we hired a whole bunch of dan 's undergrad d: that 's right . postdoc e: yeah . phd b: it was actually it was quite it was a t undergrad d: a grad a: if we hire an infinite number of dan 's phd b: it w undergrad d: it 'd b a a postdoc e: and there 's always a warm up thing of grad a: are we gon na run out of disk space by the way ? phd b: yeah . grad a: ok , phd b: no . grad a: good . postdoc e: ok . undergrad d: d does n't it beep in the other room when you 're out of disk space ? phd c: so is there grad a: no . phd c: maybe we should s consider also , um , starting to build up a web site around all of these things . phd b: web site ! that 's great ! phd c: i know . grad a: dan 's sort of already started . phd b: we could have like business - to - business e - commerce as well ! phd c: that 's right . no , but i 'm it would be interesting it would be interesting to see grad a: can we sell banner ads ? undergrad d: get get paid for click - throughs ? grad a: what a good idea , phd b: yeah . grad a: that 's how we could pay for the transcription . phd c: i want to introduce i i want to introduce the word `` snot - head `` into the conversation at this point . phd b: we can have undergrad d: you wan na word that wo n't be recognized ? phd c: you see , cuz uh , cuz exactly . um . postdoc e: oh , i do n't think so . phd c: no . grad a: hey , what about me ? phd c: the r w what ok . postdoc e: you 're the one who raised the issue . phd c: no . alright , see here 's here 's here 's my thought behind it which is that , uh , the the stuff that you 've been describing , jane , i gu one has to , of course indicate , { comment } um , i is very interesting , postdoc e: alright . phd c: and i i 'd like to be able to to pore through , you know , the the types of tr conventions that you 've come up with and stuff like that . phd b: yeah , yeah , yeah . phd c: so i would like to see that kind of stuff on the web . postdoc e: ok , now , w the alternative to a web site would be to put it in doctor speech . phd b: yes . yes . postdoc e: cuz cuz what i have is a soft link to my transcription that i have on my account phd c: either 's fine . phd b: we c postdoc e: but it does n't matter . grad a: we can do it all . phd b: we can do it all ! we can write postdoc e: ok . phd b: oh . postdoc e: web site 's nice . phd b: yeah . postdoc e: then you have to t you have to do an ht access . undergrad d: web site 's what ? phd b: we could actually maybe we could use the tcl plug - in . oh , man . postdoc e: ooo ! he 's committed himself to something . phd c: ow . see he said the word tcl and and that 's undergrad d: but he does such a good job of it . he should be allowed to to , you know , w do it . postdoc e: i know , i know . phd b: i know , but that but , i right . but i should be allowed to but undergrad d: if you just did a crappy job , no nobody would want you to do it . phd b: i sh i should n't be allowed to by m by my own by my according to my own priorities . alright . let 's look at it anyway . so definitely we should we should have some kind of access to the data . grad a: and we have we have quite a disparate number of web and other sorts of documents on this project sort of spread around . phd c: yeah . grad a: i have several and dan has a few , phd b: yes . grad a: and phd c: right , so we can add in links and stuff like that to other things . postdoc e: ah ! grad a: yep . postdoc e: nice . phd b: well , yeah . phd c: the phd b: well so then th grad a: try try to s consolidate . i mean , who wants to do that though ? phd b: the other side is , yeah . phd c: uh , right . grad a: no one wants to do that . so . postdoc e: yeah . phd b: right , that 's the problem . phd c: well , we could put we could put sort of a disorganized sort of group gestalt undergrad d: why ? what what 's what 's the issue ? phd b: no one owns the project . undergrad d: no one what ? phd b: no one owns the project . grad a: yeah , i own the project but i do n't wan na do it . phd b: no one wants to own the project . phd c: right . undergrad d: w well do but grad a: it 's mine ! all mine ! phd b: well then you have to do the web site . undergrad d: but grad a: `` wah - hah - hah - hah - hah - hah . `` phd b: you know , it 's like , it 's that simple . undergrad d: b but but but what are you what are you talking about for web site hacking ? phd b: no undergrad d: you 're talking about writing html , right ? grad a: yeah , i i 'm talking about putting together all the data in a form that that is legible , and pleasant to read , and up to date , and et cetera , et cetera , et cetera . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: but , is it against the law to actually use a tool to help your job go easier ? grad a: absolutely . it 's it 's absolutely against the law to use a tool . i have n't found any tools that i like . undergrad d: you y grad a: it 's just as easy to use to edit the raw html as anything else . undergrad d: no kidding ? phd b: that 's obviously not true , grad a: it 's obviously not true . phd b: but you have undergrad d: no , it it it 's obviously true that he has n't found any he likes . phd b: right . that 's true . undergrad d: the question is what is what 's he looked at . postdoc e: which one do you use jim ? undergrad d: i use something called trellix . postdoc e: oh , that 's right . i remember . yeah . undergrad d: and it postdoc e: which produces also site maps . grad a: now , i guess if i were if i were doing more powerful excuse me more complex web sites i might want to . undergrad d: it 's - it it 's very powerful . grad a: but most of the web sites i do are n't that complex . postdoc e: well , would this be to document it also for outside people or mainly for in house use ? grad a: but . i think both . phd c: no , i think in grad a: mostly in house . phd b: that 's right . phd c: i think mostly internal . undergrad d: well , yeah , postdoc e: ok . undergrad d: but what does internal mean ? phd b: no , both . undergrad d: i mean , you 're leaving . people at uw wan na look at it . i mean , it 's it 's internal { comment } until phd c: right . internal to the project . undergrad d: i see . postdoc e: we could do an ht access which would accommodate those things . phd b: i i i i grad a: ok , well , send me links and i wi send me pointers , rather , and i 'll put it together . phd b: i 'm not o postdoc e: wonderful . phd b: ok . i 'm not sure how how important that distinction is . i do n't think we should say , `` oh , it 's internal therefore we do n't have to make it very good `` . i mean , you can say `` oh oh , it 's internal phd c: no . no . phd b: therefore we can put data in it that we do n't we do n't have to worry about releasing `` . but i think the point is to try and be coherent and make it a nice presentation . undergrad d: right . i agree . postdoc e: yeah , it is true , that is it benefits to undergrad d: cuz you 're gon na have to wor do the work sooner or later . phd b: yeah . postdoc e: that 's right . i mean , it 's the early on . undergrad d: even if it 's just writing things up . grad a: yep . undergrad d: you know ? postdoc e: it 's a great idea . grad a: ok , um , let 's move on to electronics . phd b: ah . great . undergrad d: d we we out of tape out of disk ? phd b: no , we 're doing we 're doing great . undergrad d: i i was looking for the actual box i plan to use , uh , but i c all i could i could n't find it at the local store . but this is the the technology . it 's actually a little bit thinner than this . and it 's two by two , by one , and it would fit right under the right under th the the the the lip , grad a: yeah , does everyone know about the lip on the table ? it 's great . undergrad d: yeah . there 's a lip in these tables . postdoc e: nice . undergrad d: and , it oc i p especially brought the bottom along to try and generate some frequencies that you may not already have recorded . grad a: clink ! clink ! undergrad d: let 's see see what it does to the but this was the uh just just to review , and i also brought this { comment } along rather than the projector so we can put these on the table , and sort of w push them around . grad a: and and crinkle them and phd b: what ? postdoc e: and th `` that `` being a diagram . phd b: what ? undergrad d: that that 's the six tables that we 're looking at . these six tables here , with with little boxes sort of , uh , in the middle here . phd b: i see . postdoc e: ok . undergrad d: which es would i mean , the the boxes are pretty much out of the way anyway . i 'll - i 'll show you the the cro this is the table cross section . i do n't know if people realize what they 're looking at . phd b: you trying to screw up the m the microphones ? grad a: yes . he is . absolutely . phd b: i mean th undergrad d: well why not ? i mean , cuz this is what 's gon na happen . you got plenty of data . i wo n't come to your next meeting . and and and you so this is the box 's grad a: get your paper off my pda ! phd b: yeah . postdoc e: yeah , let let the record show that this is exhibit two b . undergrad d: that 's right . `` or not to be `` . yeah , yeah . grad a: yeah . undergrad d: uh , the box , uh there 's a half inch lip here . the box is an inch thick so it hangs down a half an inch . and so the the two head set jacks would be in the front and then the little led to indicate that that box is live . the the important issue about the led is the fact that we 're talking about eight of these total , which would be sixteen channels . and , uh , even though we have sixteen channels back at the capture , they 're not all gon na be used for this . phd b: hmm . undergrad d: so there 'd be a subset of them used for obviously j just use the ones at this end for for this many . so excuse me . you 'd like a a way to tell whether your box is live , so the led would n't be on . phd b: right . all the lights . undergrad d: so if you 're plugged in it does n't work and the led is off that 's that 's a tip off . and then the , uh would wire the all of the cables in a in a bundle come through here and o obviously collect these cables at the same time . postdoc e: that 's good . undergrad d: uh , so this this notion of putting down the p z ms and taking them away would somehow have to be turned into leaving them on the table grad a: right . well , we wan na do that definitely . undergrad d: or or right . grad a: so . undergrad d: right . and so the you we just epoxy them down or something . big screw into the table . phd b: velcro . undergrad d: uh , and even though there 's eight cables they 're not really very big around so my model is to get a a a p piece of grad a: sleeve . undergrad d: yeah , that that stuff that people put with the little you slip the wires into that 's sort of shaped like that cross section . grad a: oh . ok , not just sleeve them all ? undergrad d: yeah . i 'm i 'm r a i 'm going up and then i 'm going down . grad a: and leave them loose ? phd b: no . postdoc e: that looks like a semi - circle . phd b: yeah . it 's like a it 's a sleeping policeman . grad a: whoo ! phd b: speed bump ! postdoc e: sleeping pol phd b: speed bump . grad a: speed a `` sleeping policeman `` ! undergrad d: yeah , it 's like a speed bum an postdoc e: speed bump . that 's good . there we go s grad a: cool . undergrad d: and they 're ac they 're actually ext extruded from plastic . phd c: what is undergrad d: they sorta look like this . grad a: oh . phd c: what does that mean ? phd b: that 's the s that 's british for speed bump , phd c: is it a speed bump ? undergrad d: so that the wires go through here . phd b: yeah . phd c: wow . postdoc e: oh , is that right ? phd b: yeah . postdoc e: i never heard that . grad a: that 's really cruel . undergrad d: so . postdoc e: ah ! grad a: ok , so that undergrad d: s so it would c basically go on the diagonal here . phd c: it could go either way . grad a: so why do we have sixteen channels instead of like some fewer number ? phd b: yeah . phd c: i guess . undergrad d: uh , because the phd b: how else are you gon na distribute them around the tables ? undergrad d: because they 're there . grad a: well , ok , let me rephrase that . why two each ? phd b: oh , because then you do n't have to just have one each . so that if t if you have two people sitting next to each other they can actually go into the same box . undergrad d: yeah . grad a: ok . undergrad d: and to see , thi this is really the way people sit on this table . th grad a: ok . postdoc e: mm - hmm . undergrad d: uh . dot , dot , dot . postdoc e: which means two at each station . undergrad d: well that that 's the way people sit . that 's how many chairs are in the room . postdoc e: yeah . grad a: alright . postdoc e: yeah , i 'm just saying that for the recording . undergrad d: yeah . grad a: right . undergrad d: right . grad a: ok . undergrad d: and certainly you could do a thing where all sixteen were plugged in . grad a: but then none of these . undergrad d: uh if if you ha if you had nothing else . grad a: right . n none of these and no p z ms then . undergrad d: yeah . right . right . i agree . phd b: only if you had well it depends on this box , right ? undergrad d: oh , true enough . and actually , at the m my plan is to only bring eight wires out of this box . phd b: exactly . grad a: oh , i did n't understand undergrad d: this this box thi - thi thi this box is a one off deal . postdoc e: that being the wiring box . grad a: oh , i see , i see . undergrad d: uh . and , uh , it 's function is to s to , uh , essentially a wire converter to go from these little blue wires to these black wires , plus supply power to the microphones cuz the the he the , uh , cheap head mounteds all require low voltage . grad a: so so you 'd imagine some sort of in some sort of patch panel on top to figure out what the mapping was between each d of these two and each of those one or what ? phd b: hmm ! undergrad d: well i w i i the simplest thing i could imagine , i which is really , really simple is to quite literally that these things plug in . and there 's a there 's a plug on the end of each of these these , uh , ei eight cables . postdoc e: what phd b: yeah . postdoc e: ok . each of the blue wires ? phd b: but there are only four . undergrad d: an - and there 's only there 's only four slots that are you know , in in the first version or the version we 're planning to to build . postdoc e: mm - hmm . phd b: yeah . grad a: mm - hmm . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: so that that was the whole issue with the led , that you plug it in , the led comes on , and and and you 're live . grad a: oh , then it comes on . i see , i see . ok , good . undergrad d: now the the the subtle issue here is that tha i i have n't really figured out a solution for this . so , we it 'll have to be convention . what happens if somebody unplugs this because they plug in more of something else ? grad a: mm - hmm . undergrad d: well the there 's no clever way to let the up stream guys know that you 're really not being powered . so th there will be a certain amount of looking at cables has to be done if people , uh , rewire things . grad a: right . phd b: yeah , i mean , we i had that last time . undergrad d: but . phd b: but uh there are actually that you know , there 's an extra there 's a mix out on the radio receiver ? undergrad d: mm - hmm . phd b: so there are actually six xlr outs on the back of the radio receiver and only five cables going in , i had the wrong five , so i ended up not recording one of the channels and recording the mix . undergrad d: how interesting . d did you do any recognition on the mix mix out ? postdoc e: hmm . phd b: no . undergrad d: wonder whether it works any phd b: but i subtracted the four that i did have from the mix and got a pretty good approximation of the @ @ . undergrad d: got the fifth ? grad a: you g undergrad d: cool . postdoc e: oh , how great . grad a: and did it work ? phd b: yeah . grad a: did it sound good ? phd b: it 's not bad . undergrad d: is it is phd b: it 's not bad , grad a: wow . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: ai n't science wonderful ? postdoc e: that 's amazing . phd b: yeah . grad a: so what 's the schedule on these things ? undergrad d: so phd b: but , you always postdoc e: wow . undergrad d: uh , well i was wrestling with th with literally the w number of connectors in the cable and the the , uh , powering system . and i i was gon na do this very clever phantom power and i decided a couple days ago not to do it . phd b: hmm ! undergrad d: so i 'm ready to build it . which is to say , uh , the neighborhood of a week to get the circuit board done . grad a: mm - hmm . so i think the other thing i 'd like to do is , do something about the set up phd b: see grad a: so that it 's a little more presentable and organized . undergrad d: i agree . grad a: and i 'm i 'm just not sure what that is . i mean , some sort of cabinet . undergrad d: well i can build a cabinet . the the difficulty for this kind of project is the intellectual capital to design the cabinet . grad a: mm - hmm . undergrad d: in other words , to figure out ex exactly what the right thing is . that cabinet can can go away . we can use that for for uh kindling or something . but if you can imagine what the right form factor is . dan - dan and i have sort of gone around on this , and we were thinking about something that opened up in the top to allow access to the mixer for example . grad a: mm - hmm . undergrad d: but there 's these things sticking out of the mixer which are kind of a pain , so you end up with this thing that if if you stuck the mixer up here and the top opened , it 'd be it 'd be fine . you would n't necessarily well , you s understand what i 'm grad a: yeah , i understand . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: the the you can you can start start s sketching it out , grad a: so . undergrad d: and i can certainly build it out of oak no problem , would it you know , arb you know , arbitrarily amount of grad a: i need a desk at home too , alright ? is that gon na be a better solution than just going out and buy one ? undergrad d: well , the as we found out with the the thing that , uh , jeff bought a long time ago to hold our stereo system the stuff you buy is total crap . and i mean this is something you buy . grad a: mm - hmm . undergrad d: and and grad a: and it 's total crap . undergrad d: it 's total crap . well , it 's useless for this function . works fine for holding a kleenex , grad a: right , kleenex and telephones . undergrad d: but it right . grad a: um , so yeah , i g i guess it 's just a question , is that something you wan na spend your time on ? undergrad d: oh , i i 'm paid for . grad a: ok , great . undergrad d: i have no problem . no , but w certainly one of the issues is is the , uh is security . grad a: hmm ? mm - hmm . undergrad d: i mean , we 've been been been lax and lucky . grad a: lax . phd b: yeah . yep . undergrad d: really lucky with these things . but they 're not ours , so phd b: yeah . undergrad d: the , uh the flat panels . phd b: oh , yeah ! grad a: i 'm telling you , i 'm just gon na cart one of them away if they stay there much longer . phd b: well w yeah , exactly . undergrad d: uh , let the record show at uh at f four thirty - five adam janin says postdoc e: wow . tempting . phd b: we 'll know we 'll know to come after . postdoc e: tempting . yeah . grad a: so , um , j uh , then the other question is do we wan na try to do a user interface that 's available out here ? phd b: sorry ? undergrad d: slipped almost slipped it by dan . postdoc e: use - user interface grad a: a user interface . i mean , do we wan na try to get a monitor ? or just something . phd b: oh ! sure . postdoc e: oh . phd b: well of course we do . grad a: and how do we want to do that ? postdoc e: you mean like see see meter readings , from while sitting here . grad a: j just so we see something . postdoc e: wow . undergrad d: how about use the thing that um aciri 's doing . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: which is to say just laptop with a wireless . phd b: yeah , yeah , yeah . sure . postdoc e: oh . phd b: which we 'll borrow from them , when we need it . undergrad d: what 's wrong with yours ? if we bought you a a phd b: oh , a applecard . sure . right . yeah , you could use my machine . phd c: well undergrad d: what ? grad a: i have an iram machine i 've borrowed and we can use it . phd b: i or the undergrad d: n no , i 'm i 'm i 'm serious . does does the wireless thing work on your grad a: wait , is n't that an ethernet connection or is that a phone ? phd b: uh , that 's an ethernet connection . grad a: well phd b: it 's going next door . undergrad d: yeah no no i 'm a i i i ai n't joking here . grad a: we jus undergrad d: i 'm serious , that that it it phd b: yeah . no , no , absolutely , that 's the right way to do it . t to have it uh , just undergrad d: it 's very convenient especially if dan happens to be sitting at that end of the table to not have to run down here and and look in the thing every so often , phd b: yeah . and given given that we 've got a wireless that we 've got a we got the field . undergrad d: but just have the it 's right there . phd b: right . undergrad d: right ? the antenna 's right there , grad a: right . phd b: yeah . yeah . undergrad d: right outside the phd b: i do n't know . undergrad d: y i mean , we need obviously need to clear this with aciri but , uh , how tough can that be ? there it you 'd all you need 's web access , is n't it ? phd b: w we do n't need x access undergrad d: in in theory . phd b: but i mean that 's fine . that 's that 's what it does , undergrad d: ok , phd b: yeah . undergrad d: great , great . grad a: um , phd b: so grad a: right , so it 's just a question of getting a laptop and a wireless modem . phd b: with a with a with a w undergrad d: no , and he he had , reque @ @ my my proposal is you have a laptop . phd b: no . yeah . i do ! undergrad d: you do n't ? phd b: yeah . yeah , yeah . undergrad d: if if we bought you the thing would you mind using it with i the the phd b: no , i would love to but i 'm not sure if my laptop is compatible with the wave lan thing they 're using . undergrad d: really ? grad a: to mac . phd b: well apple has their own thing , right ? phd c: he 's undergrad d: your new one ? grad a: airport . undergrad d: i 'm sorry ? phd b: apple has their own thing . and undergrad d: i thought it just came through a serial p or an ethernet port . phd b: yeah , i think what i think you i think it just plug plugs in a pc card , so you could probably make it run with that , but . grad a: the question is , is there an apple driver ? undergrad d: i e phd b: yeah , i 'm sure . i imagine there is . but uh anyway there are there are abs there are a bunch of machines at icsi that have those cards undergrad d: but the two t phd b: and so i think if w if it does n't we should be able to find a machine that does that . i i mean i know that does n't do n't do n't the important people have those little blue vaios that undergrad d: well , uh , b that to me that 's a whole nother . that 's a whole nother issue . postdoc e: hmm . hmm . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: the the idea of con convincing them that we should use their network i is fairly straight forward . phd b: yeah . yeah . undergrad d: the idea of being able to walk into their office and say , `` oh , can i borrow your machine for a while `` , is is is a non - starter . phd b: yeah . i see . undergrad d: that i i do n't think that 's gon na work . so , i mean , either either we figure out how to use a machine somebody already in the group already owns , a a and the idea is that if it 's it perk , you know , it 's an advantage not not a disadvan { comment } or else we we literally buy a machine e exactly for that purpose . phd b: yeah . yeah , yeah . absolutely . yeah . undergrad d: certainly it solves a lot of the problems with leaving a monitor out here all the time . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: i i i i 'm i 'm not a big fan of doing things to the room that make the room less attractive for other people , grad a: right . undergrad d: right ? which is part of the reason for getting all this stuff out of the way grad a: yeah . undergrad d: and and , so a monitor sitting here all the time you know people are gon na walk up to it and go , `` how come i ca n't get , you know , pong on this `` or , whatev grad a: mm - hmm . right . i 've i 've borrowed the iram vaio sony thingy , phd c: well grad a: and i do n't think they 're ever gon na want it back . phd b: yeah . undergrad d: right . phd b: you 're kidding ! undergrad d: well , the next conference they will . grad a: so . sure . undergrad d: yeah . grad a: but that does mean so we can use that as well . undergrad d: well , uh , the certainly , u you should give it a shot first see whether you you can get compatible stuff . phd b: mm - hmm . undergrad d: uh , ask them what it costs . ask them if they have an extra one . who knows , they might have an extra hardware s phd b: i 'd trade them a flat panel display for it . yeah . phd c: what is the , um , projector supposed to be hooked up to ? undergrad d: good . uh , the , uh tsk . it 's gon na be hooked up to all sorts of junk . there 's gon na be actually a a plug at the front that 'll connect to people 's laptops so you can walk in and plug it in . and it 's gon na be con connected to the machine at the back . so we certainly could use that as as a constant reminder of what the vu meters are doing . phd b: huge vu meters . undergrad d: so people sitting here { comment } are going `` testing , one , two , three `` ! phd c: but i mean , that 's another that 's another possibility that , you know , solves undergrad d: it a phd b: yeah . undergrad d: yeah . phd b: that 's an end undergrad d: but but but i think the idea of having a control panel it 's that 's there in front of you is really cool . phd b: yeah . yeah , yeah . postdoc e: mm - hmm . phd b: i think and uh , having having it on wireless is is the neatest way neatest way to do it . undergrad d: r grad a: i had undergrad d: as long as you d as l as long as you 're not tempted to sit there and f keep fiddling with the volume controls going , `` can you talk a bit louder ? `` phd b: yeah . grad a: i had actually earlier asked if i could borrow one of the cards to do wireless stuff phd b: yeah . grad a: and they said , `` sure , whenever you want `` . so i think it wo n't be a problem . phd b: oh , cool . ok . undergrad d: and and it 's a a pcmcia card , right ? grad a: yep . undergrad d: pc card , grad a: pc card . undergrad d: so you can have a slot , phd b: yeah , yeah . undergrad d: right ? in your new machine ? phd c: it 's it really come down to the driver . undergrad d: is it with s phd b: yeah . phd c: i mean grad a: right , i mean , and if and if his does n't work , as i said , we can use the pc . undergrad d: right , i it 'll it 'll work it 'll work the first time . i i trust steve jobs . grad a: good . phd b: um , grad a: so phd b: well , that sounds like a d good solution one way or the other . grad a: so jim is gon na be doing wiring and you 're gon na give some thought to cabinets ? undergrad d: uh , y yeah . grad a: great . undergrad d: we we need to figure out what we want . uh phd b: we 'd i think undergrad d: hey , what are those green lights doing ? grad a: they 're flashing ! phd b: uh - oh ! uh - oh ! does that it means it means it 's gon na explode . no . undergrad d: cut the red wire , the red wire ! phd b: um grad a: when people talk , it they go on and off . phd b: this so again , washington wants to equip a system . our system , we spent ten thousand dollars on equipment not including the pc . however , seven and a half thousand of that was the wireless mikes . uh , undergrad d: mm - hmm . phd b: using using these undergrad d: and it and the f the five thousand for the wires , so if i 'm gon na do no . phd b: yeah , undergrad d: it 's a joke . phd b: that 's true undergrad d: i have to do phd b: but we have n't spent that , right ? but once we once we 've done the intellectual part of these , uh , we can just knock them out , right ? grad a: cheap . phd b: we can start we you can make a hundred of them or something . undergrad d: oh , of the of the boards ? yeah , yeah , sure , right . phd b: and then we could washington could have a system that did n't have any wireless but would had what 's based on these undergrad d: mm - hmm . phd b: and it would cost grad a: a pc and a peanuts . undergrad d: peanuts . phd b: pc and two thousand dollars for the a - to - d stuff . grad a: yeah . phd b: and that 's about cuz you would n't even need the mixer if you did n't have the oh th the p z undergrad d: right . phd b: p z ms cost a lot . but anyway you 'd save , on the seven seven or eight thousand for the for the wireless system . so actually that might be attractive . undergrad d: right . grad a: good . phd b: ok , i can move my thumb now . postdoc e: that 's a great idea . undergrad d: what ? postdoc e: it 's nice it 's nice to be thinking toward that . undergrad d: oh , i thought like if we talked softer the disk lasts longer . grad a: well , actually shorten phd b: yeah . grad a: there 's a speech compression program that works great on things like this , cuz if the dynamic range is low it encodes it with fewer bits . and so most of the time no one 's talking so it shortens it dramatically . but if you talk quieter , the dynamic range is lower and it will compress better . so . phd b: yeah . postdoc e: oh . hmm . undergrad d: it also helps if you talk in a monotone . grad a: probably . undergrad d: constant volume all the time . postdoc e: oh , interesting . and shorter words . grad a: shorter words . phd c: now , shorter words would n't would induce more dynamics , right ? you want to have phd b: yeah , but if the words are more predictable . grad a: how about if you just go `` uh `` ? phd c: huh . undergrad d: uh . postdoc e: that 's a long word ! grad a: how do you spell that ? postdoc e: i do n't know . grad a: ok , can you do one more round of digits ? are we done talking ? undergrad d: well it 's a choice if we get a choice , let 's keep talking . grad a: do we have more to talk about ? undergrad d: sure . no , i 'm done . phd c: i 'm done . grad a: are you done ? postdoc e: i 'm done , grad a: i 'm done . postdoc e: yeah . phd c: dan is n't but he 's not gon na say anything . undergrad d: but you you you there 's a problem a structural problem with this though . you really need an incentive at the end if you 're gon na do digits again . like , you know , candy bars or something , grad a: i 'll i 'll remember to bring m and m 's next time . undergrad d: or or or or or a little , uh you know , toothbrushes like they give you at the d dentist . phd b: mmm ! postdoc e: or both . undergrad d: or both . phd b: sorry . undergrad d: eric , you and i win . we did n't make any mistakes . grad a: it 's harder at the end than at the beginning . postdoc e: we do n't know that for sure , do we ? grad a: i should have mentioned that s uh , to pause between lines but undergrad d: no , i know . i 'm just giving you a hard time . grad a: it 's it 's only a hard time for the transcriber not for the speech recognizer . phd b: tha - tha postdoc e: but i also think you said channel four grad a: me . postdoc e: and i think you meant microphone four . and i think that 's a mistake . undergrad d: very good . so eric , you win . but the other thing is that there 's a there 's a colon for transcripts . and there should n't be a colon . because see , everything else is stuff you fill in . phd b: yeah , that 's been filled in for you . undergrad d: right ? automatically . phd b: but they 're in order ! undergrad d: but real phd b: they start , six , seven , eight , nine , zero , one , two , three , four , five , six , eight , nine . undergrad d: where 'd they come from ? phd b: and they 're in order because they 're sorted lexically by the file names , which are have the numbers in digits . postdoc e: oh . phd b: and so they 're actually this is like all the all utterances that were generated by speaker mpj or something . postdoc e: oh . phd b: and then within mpj they 're sorted by what he actually said . grad a: ugh ! i did n't know that . i should have randomized it . postdoc e: wow . phd b: it does n't matter ! it 's like cuz you said `` six , seven , eight `` . undergrad d: well , we think it does n't matter . phd b: we think it does n't matter . if i if not i undergrad d: but the real question i have is that , why bother with these ? postdoc e: oh , interesting . undergrad d: why do n't you just ask people to repeat numbers they already know ? like phone numbers , you know , social security numbers . phd b: cuz we have these writt written down , right ? grad a: because right . phd b: that 's why grad a: if we have it , uh undergrad d: i know . postdoc e: social security numbers . undergrad d: i kn grad a: we do n't have to transcribe . phd b: you can you can generate postdoc e: bank account numbers . undergrad d: credit card numbers , grad a: we do n't have to tran undergrad d: yeah . grad a: yeah , please . phd b: yeah . that 's a great idea . postdoc e: passport numbers . undergrad d: yeah , so you just say say your credit card numbers , say your phone numbers , say your mother 's maiden name . grad a: bet we could do it . undergrad d: you know pe postdoc e: password to your account . undergrad d: people off the street . postdoc e: go on . undergrad d: this grad a: actually , this i got this directly from another training set , from aurora . phd b: alright . grad a: so . we can compare directly . phd b: looks good . looks like there were no errors . postdoc e: i was i the reason i made my mistake was grad a: what ? postdoc e: wa - was this ? phd b: there were no there were no direct driver errors , by the look of it , which is good . grad a: great . postdoc e: good news . grad a: ok , the mike 's off . phd b: so i 'm gon na stop it . yeah , ok . postdoc e: ok . grad a: thank you all . undergrad d: mony on the mike . phd b: uh - oh . </s> [SEP]what did the team think about distributing the corpus ?
the team thought that their corpus was new and unique and that others would be interested in using it . they decided that they should keep dvd 's , tapes , ldc 's and other formats for sending the data to others . and they wanted to standardize their data formats .