 While this first case involved a speaker who did not know that p because they did not believe it, the second type of objection to TV-N involves a speaker who does not know that p because they are not justified in believing it. For instance, consider Persia, who is a persistent believer in the following sense: Persia goes to her eye doctor, Eyal, who tells her that the eye drops she was just given will make her vision unreliable for the next three hours. While Eyal is a highly reliable testifier, he is wrong on this occasion, i.e., for some strange reason, the drops did not have this side-effect on Persia. However, while Persia has no reason to distrust Eyal, she ignores him on this occasion, walks out of his office, and sees a Badger in the parking lot. Because Persia is a persistent believer, she forms the true belief that there is a badger in the parking lot despite Eyal’s (misleading) testimony about the unreliability of her visual faculties. Later that day Persia runs into her friend, Fred, and tells him that there was a badger in the parking lot (= p).