 This sort of worry might lead one to reject the common assumption that the ethical supervenes on the natural as misguided; instead, one might propose that the ethical supervenes on the non-ethical. This might seem promising: the point of the embezzling bank manager case might seem to be that there would need to be some non-ethical difference between cases—natural or not—in order for there to be an ethical difference in the bank manager’s actions. However, there is an important worry about this way of characterizing the supervenience base (compare Sturgeon 2009, 70–72), which can be brought out briefly by example. Some philosophers are sympathetic to ambitious reductive hypotheses about ethics. On one such example, the ethical property of goodness is just identical to the property of pleasantness. Because identicals have all of the same properties, this would entail that pleasantness is an ethical property. Some philosophers also think that certain experiential or “phenomenal” properties, such as pleasantness, are metaphysically fundamental, such that two possible circumstances could differ only in how much pleasantness they contained. Together, the points entail the conclusion that two worlds could differ from each other solely in an ethical respect: how much goodness/pleasantness they include. This is inconsistent with the supervenience of the ethical on the non-ethical, but it is not clear that we should be prepared to dismiss out of hand the assumptions that generate this conclusion. This might in turn lead us to think that there can at least be reasonable controversy concerning the supervenience of the ethical on the non-ethical.