 But ontic pancomputationalists do not limit themselves to making empirical claims. They often make an additional metaphysical claim. They claim that computation (or information, in the physical sense described in Section 2.3) is what makes up the physical universe. This point is sometimes made by saying that, at the most fundamental physical level, there are brute differences between states—nothing more need or can be said about the nature of the states. This view reverses the traditional conception of the relation between computation and the physical world.