  To what extent the communism of the ideal city is problematic is a  more complicated question. The critics claim that communism is either undesirable or impossible. The charge of impossibility essentially  extends one of Plato’s insights: while Plato believes that most  people are incapable of living without private property and private  families, the critics argue that all people are incapable of living  without private property. This criticism fails if there is clear  evidence of people who live communally. But the critic can fall back  on the charge of undesirability. Here the critic needs to identify  what is lost by giving up on private property and private  families, and the critic needs to show that this is more valuable  than any unity and extended sense of family the communal arrangements offer. It is not clear how this debate should go. Plato’s position on this question is a stubbornly persistent ideal, despite the equally  stubborn persistence of criticism.