 The pluralists do seem to be arguing against the utility of the notion of the interactor in studying the selection process. Echoing the original genic selectionists, their idea is that the whole causal story can be told at the level of genes, and that no higher level entities need be proposed or considered in order to have an accurate and complete explanation of the selection process. But, arguably, the genic level story cannot be told without taking the functional role of interactors into account, and thus the pluralists cannot avoid quibbling about interactors, as they claim (see Lloyd 2005). Nor is the genic account adequate to all selection cases; the genic account fails when drift is factored in (Brandon &amp; Nijhout 2006).