 In emphasizing that the ultimate ideal is a kind of spontaneous and intuitive perceiving of the situation and the right response to it, Wang Yang Ming joins with Zhu Xi. However, this does not mean that there were not important dissenting voices. Dai Zhen defended an ethical ideal in which deliberative reflection on the right thing to do continues to play an important role and not just at stages in which one is a considerable distance from realizing the ideal. Dai particularly emphasizes the necessity for imagining the effects of one’s actions on others, which might help one better share their sorrows and joys. Whereas Zhu equated spontaneous and non-conscious identification with others as a reflection of the wholeheartedness of one’s motivations, Dai counters that needing to deliberate over the right thing to do is compatible with a wholehearted acting on one’s judgment when one arrives at it. Dai is inclined to give desires for the self a legitimate place in ethical reflection because he holds that one’s valuing of relationships can be strengthened when one understands that the other’s flourishing is tied up with one’s own (see Tiwald 2010, 2011a, 2011b).