 To understand the nuances of the resulting debates, it helps to begin by recalling the classical Confucian philosopher Xunzi, famous as a defender of the character-centered view; as noted above, he holds that “There are people who create order; there are no standards creating order of themselves”. Discoursing on Xunzi’s claim gives Neo-Confucians opportunities to develop new ways of explaining how the character of people can be prior to institutions. One crucial elaboration is made by Hu Hong (1106–1161). On Hu’s view, people enter into the explanatory order of governance at two levels: first, they are the ones who implement the rules and regulations. At this level Hu’s analysis closely follows Xunzi’s, stressing the necessary vagueness of law and the need to have skillful magistrates who understand individual laws in a systematic way. But secondly, the people are also the ones who fix the rules whenever the rules are not suited to the circumstances. That is, humans govern not just as executives but as originators too: