 Is Plum morally responsible in the basic desert sense for killing White? Defenders of manipulation arguments say “no.” They further argue that there is no relevant difference between this case and mere causal determinism. By comparing this case to the other three cases—the final case being just like the above except that natural deterministic causes have taken the place of the neuroscientists—Pereboom and others argue that it is simply irrelevant whether Plum’s psychological states ultimately trace back to intentional agents or non-intentional causes. What does matter, and what is responsibility-undermining, is that in all four cases the agent’s actions are ultimately the result of factors beyond their control.