 The view propounded by Zhu Xi and other character-centered theorists like Hu Hong seemed to allow that both decent institutional rules and virtuous state officials were required for good governance. But once the rules were decent, Zhu suggested, one could not expect to make further progress without improvements in character to ensure better implementation. Both Zhu Xi and Hu Hong also seemed to be struck by the idea that institutional rules have little causal responsibility in their own right and that it is much more to the credit and good judgment of virtuous people that they are used to good effect (Tiwald 2019).