 The biomedical quest for precise and objective measurements leaves some unsatisfied with the little room left for patient input in clinical care decision-making. What roles are there for patient input in the process of deciding the best course of treatment (Chin-Yee &amp; Upshur, 2018)? According to critiques, by trying to sideline subjective factors in medical care and replace them with increasingly objective factors, EBM especially (even among than other biomedical perspectives), risks losing the humanistic aspects of medicine, an ethical loss and an epistemic loss. By treating patients’ desires, goals, and values as largely irrelevant or a source of interference with an objective process, EBM loses sight of medicine as a means of helping real humans’ real problems. Relatedly, by shutting the patient out of the process, the notion of the best or right treatment becomes hollowed out (McClimans forthcoming).