 Although the more character-centered view was generally more widely accepted by the most influential Song-Ming Confucians, there were some notable defenders of the position that institutional reforms alone could make improvements in governance. Two of these were the famous Yongjia Confucians noted in  section 2.5,  Chen Liang and Ye Shi. These two sought ways of improving the outcomes of policy and institutional changes without requiring more altruistic motives of people, and to some extent sought to redefine traditional virtues so that they could be more compatible with self-interest (Niu 1998; Tillman 1982). Another was the daring political reformer Huang Zongxi, who argued for institutional practices that continued to call for relatively good leaders but also created incentives to do some of the work that otherwise depended on the exceptional good will and conscientiousness of the emperor or state officials (Tiwald 2019: 86–92). Among other things, he proposed a stronger and more independent office of the prime minister or grand councilor, a rotational draft system for lower-level officials, and a requirement that the emperor attend academy debates in which local representatives could express their opinions relatively freely (MYDFL).