 This suggests that the underlying world view of NFU, in spite of the presence of the universal set, Frege natural numbers, and other large objects, may not be that different from the world view of Zermelo-style set theory; we build models of NFU in a certain way in Zermelo-style set theory, and NFU itself reflects this kind of construction internally. A further, surprising result (Holmes 2012) is that in models of NFU constructed from a nonstandard \(V_{\alpha}\) with automorphism as above, the membership relation on the nonstandard \(V_{\alpha}\) is first-order definable (in a very elaborate way) in terms of the relation \(\in_{NFU}\); this is very surprising, since it seems superficially as if all information about the extensions of the urelements has been discarded in this construction. But this turns out not to be the case (and this means that the urelements, which seem to have no internal information, nonetheless have a great deal of structure in these models).