 Determinables as inducing causal overdetermination. Related to the concern about causal redundancy is the concern, again pressed by Gillett and Rives (2005), that irreducible broadly scientific determinables induce problematic causal overdetermination. To start, if such determinables exist, they need to earn their causal  keep.[18]  But following the concern about causal redundancy, determinables simply reproduce the powers of their determinates, allowing instances of distinct properties to give rise to the same effect on a given occasion. And while such overdetermination sometimes occurs, as in firing squad or double-rock-throw cases, this is not the right model for determinables and  determinates.[19] 