 One possible reply is to grant that such arguments are question-begging and epistemically useless if presented to someone who doubts the reliability or trustworthiness of such seemings or apparent perceptions, but hold that it can still provide a subject who lacks that doubt with justification. While the argument is question-begging against the skeptic, that is no reason to deny that one could, in the absence of defeaters, acquire knowledge or justification on the basis of such arguments (Pryor 2004; Markie 2005; Bergmann 2008). However, some object that such arguments remain intuitively problematic—the arguments seem not to justify at all, whether or not they should persuade skeptics. (Cohen 2005; see also Vogel 2008a: 539–42, for further examples of cases for which dogmatism allows subjects to have justification that they really lack).