 The first of Collins’ arguments has to do with experience. Defenders of free will hold that the experience of even ordinary people shows that they choose freely. Collins’ response is much the same as that of Hobbes and Spinoza. He claims that those who say such things are either not attending to, or not seeing, the causes of their actions. Collins goes on to claim that some defenders of free will admit that the issues are tangled and not to be resolved by appeals to vulgar experience (Collins 1717: 12–31 [1976: 60–69]).