 But even then we may wonder whether, if consciousness—no matter how rich—is strictly inessential to mindedness, we should really care about it so much. On the view proposed by Neil Levy (2014), it is assumed that zombies could have minds possessed of rational understanding, desires and interests—and so their well-being would count in considerations of value no less or differently than that of conscious beings. Thus he maintains (by a reasoning that parallels Lee’s epistemological deflation of consciousness): even in our own case (phenomenal) consciousness is incidental to value. But again, one may contest the assumption of zombie minds. And even if one does not, it may well seem that, when it comes to entities that can have no subjective experience of frustration or satisfaction, it should not much matter to us whether they get what they are alleged to want, except insofar as we happen independently to want it ourselves.