Bassem Youssef: Israel-Palestine, Gaza, Hamas, Middle East, Satire & Fame | Lex Fridman Podcast #424
- If I hate you, that's great. But if I have a story
to support that hate, ah, that's even better. - One of your favorite words, jihad? (Bassem laughs) - That's my favorite hobbies. It doesn't matter now, who
do you vote into power, they will not listen to you, they would listen to the people
who paid them to be there. When the military came in,
people were walking to me, like, pointing their fingers like,
"Don't speak about this, don't speak about the army, huh? We love you now, but don't you." They were like that. So I called Jon Stewart. I was like, "I don't know what to do." And he said the most
interesting thing ever, and he said, "If you're
afraid of something, make fun about the fact
that you're afraid of it." - The following is a
conversation with Bassem Youssef, a legendary Egyptian-American comedian, the so-called Jon Stewart
of the Middle East who fearlessly satirized those in power even when his job and
life were on the line. Bassem is a beautiful human being. It was truly a pleasure
for me to get to know him and to have this fun, fascinating, and challenging conversation. This is the "Lex Fridman Podcast." To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends,
here's Bassem Youssef. Your wife is half-Palestinian, and I've heard you say that
you've been trying to kill her, but she keeps using the
kids as human shields. So have you considered
negotiating a ceasefire? - Well, the thing is, every
day, every minute of the day in a married life is a negotiation. Everything can blow up
into a full-scale war. Starting from a simple sentence like, good morning, what should
we do with the kids today? What should we do with
that piece of furniture? Any sentence can lead you to heaven or to hell in the same time. - So, you do negotiate with terrorists? - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%.
- You must? - Yeah, and for her,
I'm her terrorist too. So, it's equal. (chuckles) - Terrorist on both sides. On a more serious note, when you found out about
the attacks of October 7th, what went through your mind? - If I'm allowed to use
a curse word, I was like- - As many as possible.
- I was like, "Oh, shit." Part of my standup comedy
is, I describe a situation where I was in a
restaurant with producers. And there was a bombing two blocks away in Chelsea, New York in 2016. And of course, this is the like, damn, what's gonna happen to us now? And there's, like, two
different reactions, there's, like, the white
reaction, which is like, oh, my God, I hope nobody
is hurt, this is terrible. I hope everybody's okay. And there's the Arab reaction, What's his name, what's is his name? What is the name, you know? Because you know what's gonna come. I was scared what's gonna
really happen in that area. And I said like, "Oh, my
God, it's gonna be horrible." And the way that it was reported, I didn't know how to handle this. So basically, I went into
hiding for a few days, three or four days. And I talked about Piers Morgan team talking to me two times, three times. I was like, "No, I can't.
How can you defend that? How can you defend the rape, the decapitated babies and whatever?" And then I started kind of
looking in the news a little bit, and then I started seeing
people coming on the shows and saying things that I
know as an Arab, as a Muslim, as someone from that
region, that it's not true. But I didn't know what
to say, how to say it. So I said, by the third
time when they asked me, I said like, "Fine, put me on." And I went there, it was
more of a, (chuckles) figuratively speaking, a
suicide mission. (chuckles) Because it's a lose-lose situation. I can lose stuff in Hollywood. I remember my managers
like, "Bassem, be careful. I mean, are you sure you wanna do it?" My manager was like, "Please don't do it. Please don't do it." And on the other side,
if I don't perform well, whatever well means, I'm gonna
be rejected by my own people. So it was a lose-lose situation, because whatever I say,
it will never be enough, and whatever I say will
not be good enough. And I was going into there, and I felt that I was going into a
trance for the 33 minutes that I was on that interview
for the first time. - You blacked out?
- I blacked out. I blacked out, and a
lot of people asked me, "Is the earpiece, was that a bit?" When the earpiece kept falling. It's like, no, it was really falling off and it disconnected, and I had to save it because I cannot see them. I can just hear them, and I
could expecting at any time, "Okay, Bassem, thank you." I was like, I was fighting
for every second to say words, to put stuff in there. - Yeah, for people who don't know, this is your conversation, interview with Piers Morgan
and you couldn't see. - I couldn't see, I was just like, the lens of the camera and I was- - Just like a surreal dream or nightmare. - Yeah, hello, Bassem.
He's like, "Hello, Bassem." I was like, "Hi." (laughs) - [Lex] And it could end at any moment, your career and everything. - Everything, yeah, yeah. - [Lex] So, what was
the drive that got you to actually do it, to overcome that fear? - Multiple things. First of all, I don't wanna
say it's just my wife's family, because my wife's family
has always been there, but this time was different. The bombing, the attack, they're usually one of those people that they're away of everything. Whatever happened in Gaza,
they are always in safe places. But this time, it seems that
there was no place safe. And already, we heard about, like, two, three of the cousins and the uncles already lost their home. So, this was too much. So, I wanted to say
something for those people, because I know that, you know, one of the jokes that I made about like, "Oh, you know, Hassan,
her cousin, he's a loser," He's a doctor, he's a doctor. And every time a hospital was bombed, we were worried about him. So, I wanted to say that
because I felt that these are, this is a family that I
have never seen in my life. I've never, she actually
hardly saw an uncle or two, because, you know, they cannot leave. But I said like, I need to speak, at least I do something
for those extended family that I have never known. But also because when Piers Morgan team called me a couple of times, I said, "Okay, let's see what's
going on in the show." And I just watched the stuff, and the lies and the one-sided reporting, that made my blood boil. And then I thought, like,
what am I afraid of? I'm afraid of if I say
something, I can lose my career. I was like, wait a minute. But that was the reason why I left Egypt. I said, wait, I left Egypt. I came to United States. I came to the land of the free where I can say anything I want, and yet I have limitation of what to say? I mean, I thought we
left that shit behind. I mean, what's happening? And I understand, I
understand the connection of like, how sensitive it is
when you speak about Israel and all of the ready-made accusations. But as an Arab, as a Muslim,
I don't react the same when you talk about Saudi Arabia or Iran or Egypt or any of them. It's like, "Hey, you wanna
diss some of these countries? I'll do that with you." Because I have strong
opinions about what happened, and I already been expressing them. And there's a lot of Jewish people who come to my show, and
they understand that. They understand the separation, but that kind of a grouping
of blackmailing people and saying and not saying
what they have in their mind, it is that kind of,
like, one of the things that kind of, like, pushed
me to go on the show. - The thing that was bothering you was it what was being said
or how it was being said? - Both, because there are lies, which is usually in the media, but there was the total
disregard of humanity. You talk a lot about in your
show about human suffering. And I felt that here, the
human suffering was not equal. That's why I came up with this, like, what's the exchange rate today? What's the exchange rate today? Of course, it's terrible
to see anybody die, but I feel that like, isn't
our life not worth anything? - Yeah, you had a chart. - Yeah.
- That came to crypto. - Yeah.
- You analyze it from an investing perspective, of course, in a dark humor- - That's the ROI on that.
- ROI. (Bassem laughs) And that you were saying that a certain year was a good year. - Yeah, 2014.
- 2014 was a good year for investment purposes. And also to refer to the family member that you called a loser, you were saying that you called him, had a conversation with him, and he keeps saying that
he's not using anybody for human shields, and then
you called him a loser. What are you, you can't even give a job. - The liar, he lied to us
because I have to believe. But this is the one thing, it's like, it's also one of the things,
like, how it was said. It was stuff that I've been hearing. I don't know what turned on in my head, but it's stuff that I've been hearing all my life from the media. Israel warns civilians
before bombing them. And that's okay, but that's not okay. Israel is trying to
minimize the civilians, but killing them anyway. And that's okay, but that's not okay. So it is kind of, like, the indoctrination that we've been hearing as if it is okay, and then, suddenly, it's not. - Yeah, there's a kind of
several layers of bullshit, almost sometimes hiding the obvious horror of the situation with kind of politeness and all this kind of stuff. Just the basic value of human life. That said, it's a difficult situation. - It is, it is. - What would you do if you were Israel? Bibi called you, Bassem, big
fan, big fan of your comedy. - Mm-hm.
- First of all, would you hang up right away? Would you hear him out? - Oh, I will definitely
hear him out. (laughs) I was like, that was like, "Wait a minute! That's material, that's material. That's material, man." (both laugh) It was like, so Netanyahu called me. (both laugh) - Yeah.
- I was sitting with my family, it's like, I'm on my phone and was like, oh, Netanyahu. (both laugh) - Yeah, it just shows up that way. I mean, what would you do? What would you do in this situation? - To answer this question, we need to understand how Israel thinks. There is an incredible
speech given by Gideon Levy at a famous Israeli report in Haaretz. And he describes a situation where he was in the West Bank
and there was a checkpoint. And in that checkpoint, there was an ambulance
with a Palestinian patient. And it was there sitting for
an hour and a half, not moving. And then he went to talk to the soldiers, like, "Guys, why are you
not letting them go?" He's like, "Ah, let them go." And then he told them, "Imagine
if he was your father." And the soldiers stood up and was like, "What? These are pigs. These are not humans." So when you tell me what would
you do if Israel would do, we need to ask, how does
Israel look at the Palestinian and view the Palestinians? Because they do look at
them less than human. And there is an incredible talk by Meyer. He was a holocaust survivor. And he said, "I learned in Auschwitz when I was there in the concentration camp that in order for a
dominant group of people to dehumanize another group, they need first to dehumanize themselves." And Israel looks at
Palestinians as lesser people, as lesser beings, as some
people who are dispensable. And the way that they treat them is that they don't really care about, like, that's why that
the exchange rate thing. So for me, if I am
Israel, it will be like, what would you do if
you're the United States in the time of the Native Americans? They were killing people
with the millions. When you dehumanize a group of people, you really don't care. So if I was Israel, I would do exactly what Israel is doing right now, because there is no one
is holding me accountable. There's no one stopping me,
and I can get whatever I want throughout my a history through violence. - I think a lot of the
things you just said are a tiny bit slightly exaggerated. So, let me try. - Please, please, please.
- Let's try. So not everybody in Israel.
- Of course. - So let's look at several groups. So people in government, IDF soldiers and citizens that are neither of those. And not everybody of any
of those sees Palestinians as less than human, just some percentage. So what percentage is that in your sense? - It's the people who have the power. - So it's mostly the
focus of your commentary. When you say people in Israel, you really mean the people in power. - The people have in power. But as much as, like, of course, I mean, the people of power. Because even when I speak about America, I speak about people in power. When I speak about Egypt, I
speak the people about power, because, like, you can't really talk about the 100 million people in Egypt or the 11 million people in Israel. Of course, not, there are people who go in and they demonstrate against Netanyahu and they want him out of the government. But we have to admit
that the Israeli society, at a whole, have moved
quite bit to the right and has been, like, many extreme. And you know what happens
when you go to the right or you go to the most extreme, the other person go to the most extreme. And extremism breeds extremism. So thank you for that clarification. But like, I really meant
with the people of power. When people criticize the
United States for going in Iraq, of course, I'm not criticizing citizens. - But you made another point,
which is an interesting point, and it's very difficult to
see in the heart of people, but I wonder if you look
at the average Palestinian and the average Israeli, and
when they look at the other, do they have some hate in their heart? Well, everybody probably has some. What is that amount? You know, when you look at a person that looks different than
you, how much hate is there? - It depends on what is the
living situation of each person. So in the Berlin Film Festival, just like a couple of weeks
ago, there was an Israeli and a Palestinian receiving
an award together. And the Israeli director said, we're gonna go back to Israel. He's gonna go to the West Bank. He will have no rights, and I
will have full living rights. These people managed to work
together and be friends, and they have empathy to each other. Now the average Palestinian,
it's a very difficult question. Because is it the Palestinian in the diaspora or the
Palestinian in Gaza, or the diaspora in the West Bank, or the one as a citizen of
Israel who still have less right than a normal citizen of Israel, the Jew? And it really depends. There are Arabs in Israel
who are having a great life. And there are people, Arabs, who are having a miserable life. But definitely, people that living in Gaza or in the West Bank is kind of, like, on the lower tier of
the living conditions. Now let's talk about the hate. What does that Palestinian
see with the Israeli? The Palestinians see oppression, limitation of movement,
limitation of freedom. And then when there's something happens, you see the full force coming
in, destroying their home, taking away members of his family. There would be absolutely no reason for him to love the other. The Israeli, because, you know,
he doesn't have the power, but he lives under his government, all he sees is the rockets or whatever. But like, he sees the reaction and he doesn't see what happened to those. And as humans, we are selfish. We see what really affects us as humans. And I cannot even imagine what it would be like to
live as a Palestinian. And I'm not even talking about Gaza, because everybody talks about Gaza. But let me give you an example, and I'm not gonna talk about
the 12,000 kids killed in Gaza. Let's talk about just like the
four weeks in the West Bank. March 4th, Amr al-Najjar, age 10, sitting next to his father,
shot while he's sitting in the car next to his
father by the IDF soldiers. Mohammed Zayed, 13 years old, March 3rd, shot in front of a UN school
while sitting with his friends. Mohammad Ghnaim, age 15, March 2nd, he shot while standing in front of a storefront during a night raid. February 23rd, Saeed Jaradat,
he was killed by a drone fire. February 22nd, Fadi Suleiman killed while standing in front of a
top of a Red Cross building. Nihil Ziad, February
14th, Valentine's Day, killed and shot in the
head while leaving school. February 11th, Mohammad
Khdour, US citizens, killed while being in a parked car. And Moed Shams, February 9th, killed right in front of his home because a military car
came reversing back to him, and then somebody opened the
door, shot him and leave. This is a daily life of
people in the West Bank. - What is the justification
that IDF provides? - Terrorism.
- Terrorism? - Or I don't know. I mean, you cannot really
say, like, human shields, but they would say like,
"They were throwing rocks." There was a guy who went on Chris Rock and he said like, his son,
a US citizen will kill. And they're like, they
were throwing rocks, so we killed him. Even when they were throwing
rocks, you kill him? But the thing is, you see, this is how easy for them
to get rid of Palestinians. I had to say I prepared a
little bit for the podcast, because you are in tech. And I am ignorant in tech. There is a movie called "The Lab." It is directed by an Israeli, a director called Yotam Feldman. And he talks about how
the military industry in Israel is very advanced. And what is really mind
boggling is in that movie, he shows how the military
tests its weapons in the field, in urban areas on Palestinians. It is heartbreaking. You know, as a doctor,
there's five stages of trials. There is discovery, preclinical,
clinical, and then market, and then post-market
evaluation by the FDA. The FDA approval and
then the FDA post-market. Five just to take a pill. And you go in, and he
interviews people as like, "Where did you test this?" They tested in the field. So when you just like,
when human life so cheap and it is so indispensable, it gave me a visceral
reaction, because you know, this has been actually
the state of humanity. Humanity have lived
and survived and thrive by actually killing each other. But there was kind of like
a, we are removed from it. People in Greece didn't know what the Alexander the Great was doing. He was killing and pillaging. We call him the great, but he was killing. He was conquering, he was invading. Julius Caesar, all of the
greats, he would do it. But killing was difficult. Killing had to have some sort, you have to be with your enemy. Then you go back, catapults, then cannons, then a little bit back, and then you're kind of,
like, starting remotely. Now, you're killing people
behind the screen with a button, with a push of a button, you know? A lot of people say, "Terrorism, they killed you with a knife." Killed one person with a knife,
shot you, that's terrorism. But if you fly a $64 million F-16 and you drop up an A-84
bomb that costs $16,000, that's not terrorism because it's remote. You're behind the screen. So what happened? What Israel is doing? It is removing itself. Like America too, drones. And then when you push someone to be in, they always brag about bombing
them to the stone ages. What happens when the screens
and all of the obstacles that you have been put
between you and those people, that you have treated them this way, when this is a breach and
you come face-to-face, you will come face-to-face
with what you have created. - Yeah, there's a lot of
interesting things you just said. So one is the methodology of killing. If you wanna look at some
horrific large-scale killing, people often talk about the
Holocaust, but that's visceral. You can look at Holodomor by Stalin where the murder is through starvation. - By Churchill in India. - Churchill in India. And The Great Leap Forward.
- Mm-hm. - By Mao.
- Yep. - So starvation is a thing we don't often think of it as murder, because it's quiet, it's slow. And the interesting thing about starvation is that the people don't
complain as they're dying, because they're exhausted. That's one, and the other
is the value of human life. It does seem that every culture has a unequal valuation of human life. So those two things combined create a complicated military
landscape of the world. - Yes, but thing is, is
that how we would look at technology as the savior? We talk about how AI
disrupt, will disrupt, will disrupt, will disrupt. And now, you talk about,
like, going to the West Bank, the people in the West Bank walk and they don't see humans. They see people shooting them from towers or behind the screens or doing, and they have like biometrics that is developed by Basil Systems, like, that's done by HP or Google and Amazon who are, like,
part of Project Nimbus. And you see, in division,
developing all of this, like, metric and surveillance
and all of that stuff. And then, you have, like,
something, like, the gospel that, like, people have actually said that the gospel can actually
create a target list using AI and give you a green,
yellow or a red to go ahead. And now, AI is not just
disrupting the market, it's disrupting our humanity. And we became so comfortable
killing people from afar, killing people with a push of the button. And now, it's like dating apps, you know, when you swipe left and right,
and it's like, oh, right. It becomes so, like, cheap. It's not like meeting someone. It's like, ah, ah, ah. It's like a lot of fish in the sea. Same with AI, boom, 500 people killed. Boom, they killed. It's so easy, it's so easy, it's so easy. And then it's so far removed from you. So when you put these
people in this condition, you have literally put them in a different universe than yours. You are behind in your
air-conditioned screens like, pushing them, blowing
up a university, it's amazing. But then you meet what you have done, that you meet the Frankenstein
that you have created. And then people are like, "Oh,
look what they did to us." - You just gave me this
image of a dating app from hell where leaders
are just sitting there and kind of swiping left, right. - Just like, invade, destroy. (laughs) - Its boring. - Like a puppet government. (laughs) - Yeah, and then turn off
the phone, go to sleep. So you know, I traveled to the West Bank and I mentioned to you offline that I really loved the people there. Just, you know, yeah, I've met
a bunch of people like that in Eastern Europe where I grew up. Yeah, like the flamboyant, the big personalities, all of that. I also met a person who's
in charge of a refugee camp who was shot by an IDF soldier. And I'm not sure the words
he said are important as the consequences of the
thing that you mentioned, which is the deep hate in his eyes. That didn't feel repairable at all. It was pain, it was like
a foundation of pain and on top of that, a hatred. And I was like, "Wow, you kill one person, this is what you create." - Because we have kind of, like, a front row seat to what's happening, we think we are in it, but
we can't really grasp it. I mean, people's like, "Oh,
we're just gonna go in, get Hamas out and we're
gonna get them back in." And what about the people get back in, how do you think they would look at you? What have you created? What have you done? My show in Egypt was all about propaganda. It's all about the use of words. Words are very important. The decapitated babies
were not chosen randomly. Because you see, it plants a
certain image in your brain. Imagine if you're going
in, what a baby can do? It can smile, cry and poop, that's it. It's absolutely no threat. So when you tell people,
"40 decapitated babies," they're so animalistic,
they didn't see the babies. Women raped, of course,
he's an animal to do that. And they would go through that, and what was very frustrating about the conversation
is the gish galloping. The gish galloping, throwing. You see the distractions,
you see what happens? Like, it's like, what's
the proportionate response? Can Israel defend itself? Do you condemn Hamas? Does Israel has a right to exist? Decapitated babies, raped women, why don't the Arab countries take them? Muslims kill Muslims. Look what happened in
Yemen, in Syria, in Iraq. Like, see how they kind of distract you? They throw little things at you so you don't know what to do. Or the UNRWA, the UN, anti-Semitic. October 7th, October 7th, October 7th. And then suddenly, you are distracted and pulled into discussing
all of these little things, and you're not discussing
what's happening right now. It is basically stalling, giving them time to do what they do. - So there's some degree
to the propaganda though. So the beheaded babies and
all this kind of stuff, that is so over the top that it shuts down actual conversation about actual wrongs, war crimes on both sides. So it's overstating it to
where everyone on social media and everywhere in the press
and everywhere is arguing, almost become desensitized
to actual horrors of death, which are more mundane. They're not so dramatic
as beheaded babies. - Yeah, because a baby is
shot, but decapitated babies. There's like a knife blade
that goes into the skin, the trachea, the flesh, the spine. Decapitated. You can just, like, he's dead. But no, you go in, this is the
hate. This is so much hate. And you know, that's why- - You have made me laugh (Bassem laughs) at the darkest shit. You're such a beautiful person. Your dark humor is just wonderful. - But you see this
happened to Jews before. Remember, blood libel?
- Yeah. - Where did the blood libel come from? - Yeah.
- It come from these rumors that Jews suck baby's blood. This is what they did to them.
- Yeah, yeah. - That's what's in the cup.
- Exactly. (Bassem laughs) That's a very delicious baby cup. - Delicious baby blood.
- But this is what you do. You tell people something. And it happened with the Native Americans when they were here, when they went in and they wipe a whole tribe. And Jewish people, one of the, like, the minorities that were persecuted and had this used against
them for a very long time. And it is terrible and it's terrifying. That's being used again. - So, I just did a very lengthy debate on Israel and Palestine. And the really painful thing from that, those two historians, it was deep, it was thorough, it was fascinating. But in constantly asking about sources of hope or solutions, there was none. There was a sense of, like, a really dark sense of, it's hopeless. From both sides, it's hopeless. So you know, I look to you (both laugh) for a source of hope. Is there any hope here,
solutions, short-term, long-term? - Obama have kind of summarized this beautifully in his book. He said, "The reason why the
Israeli-Palestinian conflict is so chronic is one
side have so much power and the other side have
absolutely no power." And that's the one what he says. He said like, "You have Israel," that they basically don't listen to us, because they're supported by people who are bigger than the president, bigger than administration. They know that they can. I mean, like, Netanyahu was
caught on tape many times saying like, he's basically,
like, belittling Americans. Like, we control 80% of the
population, we don't care. This has kind of, like, nonchalant kind of, like, we have them. And there's nothing really that compels Israel to give up anything. Because at the end of the
day, what is compromise? Compromise is, like, I give something, you give something. Israelis don't giving anything, and they project that on you. So for example, how many
times have we heard like, "Oh, Palestinians were given
like 4, 5, 6, 7, 15 chances, and they said no to them." And yet when you read the history, that's not the case at all. Like, for example, the
whole idea about, like, Arafat walked away from
Oslo, that didn't happen. And there is an incredible video by, you know, what's his name? Joe Scarborough with Misha. And they were hosting
her father, Brzezinski, he was the national security advisor. And Joe Scarborough said like, "Well, you know, like,
Arafat left the Oslo Accord and the Palestinians left." And then Brzezinski said like, "This is, like, embarrassingly shallow." It's like, listen, what happened was, there was a lot of catches
on the Oslo Accord. It was very unfair to the Palestinians. So Arafat has said like, "I agree, but I need to take
it to the Arab capitals." And they went to Sharm
El-Sheik, they came to Egypt. And he and Ehud Barak went to there. And then Ehud Barak left
because there was election, and he lost, Ariel Sharon
came, and it was destroyed. This is one of the reason why people, it's kind of, like, facts
don't matter as much as what is the narrative
that has been controlled. - What were the biggest
barriers to peace there? Do you think it's, fundamentally, leaders don't want a two-state solution? Or was there nuanced small differences that if solved could have
led to a two-state solution? - I mean, maybe there was a certain point when the Israeli leaders
were more open to compromise. But I can't say that, because each time Israel gives back land, it has to be after some use of force. The 1973 war, the Antifa,
the first and second, the casualties in Gaza. They never give up land
willingly and because of peace. Because if I have that much military, I can do whatever I want. Why would I give up anything? I have that much power. Why would America or China give everything if they're so powerful? And especially, if they
have this kind of open check from the United States. So, it is really about what can push Israel to give up something? Because you are so much stronger than me. What could compel you
to give up something? And this is why the
whole thing about, like, trying to equalize Palestinians and the Israeli state and government, it doesn't make any sense. - So what is the source of hope? You know, Jon Stewart,
who we'll talk about from many angles, somebody
you admire, a friend, he proposed a two-state solution. - [Bassem] Of course. - Look to the comedians for hope. - Yes, well, everybody's talking about the two-state solution, but Israel has said
many times on Netanyahu, like, there's gonna be no state solutions. In the past, it's like,
even Naftali Bennett, he came in on "HARDtalk." He's like, yeah, maybe in the past, we wanted two-state solutions. But like, look, every time we
give them land, they kill us. So no state solutions, and
they are openly saying it. - But that's perhaps rhetoric. - The rhetoric that is
supported by action. Because look at what they're doing in the West Bank that you said. They are cutting it, illegal
settlement, piecemealing it. So if you have an intention
at all to give them anything, why would you keep doing this? - And you've called it
a bunch of little Gazas. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- It's a nice little picture of what's happening. - Piecemealing it, what happened in the past four months, the Palestinians have
been microdosing on it for a very long time, little
by little, little by little. And we would shout every time when it gets too much
and then we shut down. And then little by little,
but this time it was hard. It was hard to see the blatant oppression. And the world said,
"Maybe the Hamas Ministry of Health are giving us the bad numbers. Maybe it's just human shield." And I laugh, there's 13,000 babies killed. Does that mean that there
are 13,000 military target hiding in their diapers? Because it doesn't make any
sense to kill that many babies. It's like, "Oh, oops,
just out of our hands." - It's hard to know what
to do with those numbers. I mean, just one baby is enough. - But you know what happens
when you hear so many numbers? Numbers become numbers, and
you become so desensitized. And this is why there's a difference between saying 13,000
Palestinian kids dead, just like Mila Cohen, an
Israeli baby, 10-month old. She was killed in her crib. And this is what we hear from CNN. We never hear a story
about the Palestinian kid. That's why thank you
for giving me the space for saying the news of
the Palestinian children that were killed just for four weeks. Like, it's because humans needs context. They need depth. They need, like, a 3D look
at what they can look at. But if you just tell 'em numbers, oh, they don't mean anything. - Is there some degree to
where both leaderships, Hamas, PA, Palestinian
Authority, Israel, all want war? Like, perpetual war to remain in power? - That's an interesting question. But I mean, let's admit something. The Arab regimes in the
area have actually used the problem of Palestine
in order to stay in power, in order to get excuses
to like, have this enemy, and Israel, the Israeli
government has used that too, and maybe the Palestinians. But my problem with when
going into discussion this is that the two sides are not equal. They're not equal in power,
they're not equal in influence, and they're not equal in
international supports, especially with the United States. So people who have made changes in history were the people with power. The people who would have
the ability to change things, and the Palestinians cannot really change. What can they change? - Well, is that true though?
- Okay. - With how much support the
Palestinian people have? So just like you said, there's
a lot of Arab states there that will voice their
pro-Palestinian position in order to distract
from the own corruption and abuses of power in
their own countries. But you know, I don't
think, if you look globally, there's a complete asymmetry of power and public opinion here, maybe
in the press in the West. But if you look globally- - But do they have the
same kind of weapons that the Israeli have? - Literally power, no. There's a major asymmetry
of literal power. - Some money to their leaders. Does that make any difference? I mean, and also when you
say Palestinian authority, which authority are you talking about? Hamas or the Palestinian authority who has been kind of a
domesticated kind of, like, a puppy, Palestinian
who basically have been an informant on their own people. And this is the thing also that kind of, like, really pissed me off when I was hearing the
thing about these things. Like, Hamas, Hamas, Hamas, Hamas. Like, we have Netanyahu on tape confessing that he supported Hamas
giving money in order to cause factions
between the Palestinians. So it's just like, you just told me this. You just told me this. You just told me, did
Netanyahu support Hamas? It's like, but Hamas, like, what? - [Lex] I mean, to which
degree does Netanyahu represent the Israeli people is a real question. - To which point does Trump or Biden represent the American people? - And to which degree does Hamas represent the Palestinian people? - It doesn't. None of these represent it, but who have the power in
order to make the decisions? It really comes down to that. - Well, who does have the power? You're giving a lot of power to Israel. - Yeah.
- But the Arab League- - What should Hamas do? What do you think would Hamas do? - Continue doing what a charter says, which is trying to destroy Israel. And the role of the Palestinian
people is to overthrow Hamas and get a more moderate
leadership probably. And the role of the Israeli people is to vote out this right-wing government and elect a more moderate leader, so that there's a chance at
peace with two moderate leaders. - [Bassem] So before Hamas
even got to control 2006 Gaza, there was Ariel Sharon in 2000. And we all know what happened. And Ariel Sharon kind of, like, came up with this amazing policy of, like, breaking people's kids'
bones in the intifada. So, Ehud Barak, he was also like, I mean, which one is moderate? I mean, I think Hamas is a
product of what happened. I mean, if there was no
apartheid in South Africa, there would be no NFC. There will be no Nelson Mandela. If there was no Nazis in Paris, there would be no French resistance. And I'm not saying that. And again, I don't wanna
be put in a position to defend Hamas or anybody, because you know what that entails, but those are like, Hamas,
again, not defending them, they went into October
7th, why did they did that? Like, release our hostages,
the people in prison. Because if you talk about
people who are kidnapped, Israel kidnaps people every single day. And when they had that, the
first exchange in November 4th, Israel leaves 400 people, 3/4 of them were women and children. Why are those people in prison? There's one in four
kids that are imprisoned that stay in solitary confinement, which is, by international
law, a form of torture. And you're putting kids through that. - So first of all, ceasefire. - Yes.
- And longer term, is it possible for Arab states and the United States to get together, and with power through
diplomacy, enforce a solution? - It's a very, very ideal solution. But you know and I know that Arab states don't
really have the power. All of the powers are
in the hands of America. - They have the power. See, I think they have the power. I don't- - Maybe they don't wanna use it. - They don't wanna, well, that's- - [Bassem] Maybe they don't wanna- - Because there's a benefit.
- Maybe there's a benefit. - Like, the dark sense I have
is that a lot of people win from the suffering the
Palestinians are going through, because they can point to
that and distract from- - [Bassem] Definitely, definitely. - Corruption in their own states. And then obviously, Iran can benefit also from the same kind of dynamic distracting from the authoritarian
nature of their regime. - Definitely, but what is
the core of the problem here? Is it the Arab states using the suffering? Or actually the suffering itself? And the suffering comes
from people being displaced. Their homes were taken away. There are 7 million
Palestinians in diaspora. 7 millions, 7 million went out there, and now they're living in
Canada and America and Europe. They had homes there
they cannot go back to. 1.7 million people of the people in Gaza don't belong in Gaza. They were pushed from other places. The piecemeal thing of
people are being, you know, in Germany, I'm gonna
shift gear a little bit. It's gonna be a little bit of fun. There is a book that I
bought the rights to, and I want to turn it into a movie. And I bought, I auctioned the right for two years in March of
last year, before October 7th. After October 7th, I
bought the permanent right. That book is called "The
Muslim and the Jew." And it is written by an
author called Ronen Steinke. I read an article about this book in 2016, and I chased that book for
rights for seven years. I didn't have that much
money, but I wanted that book. And that book was translated into English called "Anna and Dr. Helmy." And that book tells the incredible
story under Nazi Germany where Arabs went in
droves to Berlin in 1920s after the 1st World War
in the Weimar Republic. And they became doctors and engineers and journalists for two reasons. Number one, they're cheap, very cheap because of the inflation. And two, a lot of the Arab nationalists, they didn't want to send their
kids to England or France, because they were the occupiers. And Dr. Helmy was the hero of that. He's an Egyptian doctor. And that's why I kind of like, I personally kind of connected with him. And he went to medical school, didn't find a place to live. So he lived in the Jewish
ghetto, like many Arabs. He didn't find a hospital to work in, so he worked in a Jewish hospital. So there was a lot of
Arabs who lived together, and actually the first
director of the Berlin Mosque with a Jewish convert
who converted to Islam, and he was a gay activist. I'm telling you, this
is, like, a crazy story. - [Lex] Yeah. - And this is not a fiction story, this is actually, like, a nonfiction. It's written actually
based on the statement, the documents of the Nazis in the Gestapo. Dr. Helmy, he was in this hospital. And the Nazis came in and they killed and tortured and beat
up the Jewish doctor. And they made him the
head of his department. So now, he's surrounded by Nazi doctor. They didn't touch him
because he was an Arab. There was kind of, like, a thing between Germany and the Arabs, because they wanted to appease to them in order to have kind of a grassroots base in the Arab world where
he want to go next. And this is why 1934-1935, the racial laws of Nuremberg,
they had a name change. First they were called anti-Semitic. Then they changed into anti-Jewish, because also Arabs were Semetic. So they wanted to appease the Arabs. Now, what happened, Dr. Helmy, when that happened to him, he
would go back to the ghetto and he would see the
apartments next to him. The Jewish apartment become more and more and more flooded with people, because they were moving
Jews and pushing them and putting them together,
pushing them to the side. And each flat, each apartment,
instead of one family, it would have three,
four, six, seven families. And he was there going at home, and he looked, he was there. This is where the people he
grew up with, he lived with. And now, he's seeing that
kind of discrimination just because he was an Arab. And then he started to kind of, like, atone for, like, because
he felt responsible, because he wasn't treated the same way. And he started to go
and treat Jewish people in their homes, because they
couldn't go to hospitals. And then one family
gave them his daughter. It's like, "This is Anna, save her." He took her, pretended
that she's his niece, put a hijab around her, taught
her Arabic, called her Nadia, my daughter's name by the way. And he hid her in plain
sight for seven years in front of the Nazis as his nurse. It's an incredible story. And then not just that he went to prison, and then he went out and he
formed with the Arab people that was in prison with him a
network that saves 300 Jews. You see that kind of story? This is the Jews that were
living in the Arab world. I'm not saying that the
Jews living the Arad world was living, like, an incredible life. Of course, as a kind of a minority, they did not have like the
full power of their full, you know, advantages of the rule. That's normal, but we had
this kind of a relationship before Israel was erected in 1948. And then, of course,
everybody looked at Jews at the time as fifth column. And of course, the
nationalistic regimes used that. And this is why what Biden
said was very dangerous, when he said, "If there's no Israel, no Jew in the world will feel safe." You are the leader of the free world. You are the president
of the United States. Do you mean that you're telling me that Jews in your country, in the United States of
America are not safe? That is wrong on two levels. Number one, America,
historically and right now, is more safe to Jews in
the world than anybody. They're safer than the Jews in Israel. They never had pogroms or
the Holocaust like Europe. They live here a good life, not perfect life, but they're better. Second of all, if you're the president and you're telling that a group
of people will not feel safe unless there is a different one, you are already feeding
into their fifth column. Like, you're Russian, you come from there. And there is a group of laws
in the Russian constitution that says that Russia will protect its citizens everywhere in the world. What happens if the president says like, "Oh, you're Russians, you're
protected by own country. You don't belong here, this is terrible." - Yeah, you're right. That's
actually an indirect threat. - Yes.
- You know, even saying Muslims cannot
feel safe in America or something like this, that
means like, that's a threat. - But what would a Jewish person in Beverly Hills or in
Brooklyn feel if he hears that. You are already telling people you need to be loyal to Israel. I mean, Israel is a foreign country. I am sorry, but Israel
is a foreign country. Israel is a client
country that we sponsor. And it should actually be responsible and held accountable for what they do. - You mentioned 1948, the Nakba. But before that '41, '39,
'41 to '45, the Holocaust. What do you do? What do
you do with the Holocaust? Like, how do you incorporate
into the calculus? - Oh, yeah.
- Of what's- - Oh, it's terrible.
- Of morality that leads up to the displacement of 700,000
Palestinians from the land. How do you work that out? - It is terrible, but like, I mean, the systemic annihilation of
Jewish people under the Nazi. That is, like, a carefully
engineered, thoughtful plan. It was terrible. It was kind of, like, the
human ingenuity put into, like, something that is very evil. But also, it is not just that happened. We need to remember that Otto Frank, the father of Anne Frank, has his visa, refugee visa, rejected
by the United States. There's a lot of people that were rejected by the United States, rejected
by other European countries, and then they were pushed into Palestine. So you have to put yourself between like, and the Arabs say, "Okay, we're
sitting here, okay, come." And then, all right, you don't have a home or a country anymore. That kills you. I mean, you see, if I am not an Arab and you give me that
kind of piece of, like, terrible human thrash, like,
oh, my God, that is terrible. But then I'm an Arab, it's
like, yes, I'm so sorry, but what do I have to do with that? Why is that my fault? The persecution of the
Jewish people have started since the eighth and ninth century, because they were first anti-Christians. They were, like, the criminal immigrants. They were, like, conspirators. This is the antis, like,
people, kind of, like, as if Europe kind of, like,
throw anti-Semitism on us. You understand that, like, Henry Ford, Henry Ford is one of the biggest anti. He was the inspiration
for Adolf Hitler. (laughs) This is how anti-Semitic Henry Ford was. And you kind of, like, gloss over that. And then suddenly, we, as Arabs,
have to pay the price, why? - Several questions I wanna ask there. But one just zooming out, why do you think hatred
of Jews has been such a viral kind of idea
throughout human history? - Oh, it's very easy. It all started from Christ. They killed Christ, they killed Christ. They killed Christ, they're
the killer of Christ. - That's a very sexy story.
- Yeah, and that stayed for years. That stayed for centuries,
I'm sorry, centuries. They're the killer of Christ. And then the Catholic
Church did not allow usury, but they would work in usury. So they become rich. Now the people that we hate, that we accuse them of killing
Christ are becoming rich. So that's envy now, and that's hatred. I mean, when you talk about ghettos, ghettos was not just as
secluded parts in cities. Sometimes those ghettos
were outside the cities. Jews were not even allowed
to work a lot of professions. They were not allowed to get into the syndicates of
certain professions. So they had to go work
usury and they got rich, so the people hated them more. The first crusade didn't
kill a single Muslim. All they killed were Jews. And when they finally
arrived to Jerusalem, all they killed were Jews. They almost annihilated the Jews. So it was all this, and of
course, you have the dark ages. Who do you need as an enemy? The Jews, right? They're the killer of Christ, there's nothing bigger than this. And then you fast forward, I mean, one of the things that I found out that was very, very, very, very crazy. When Henry Ford imported "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," by the way, in the Arab world, "Protocols of the Elders
of Zion" is so popular. And for obvious reasons. (laughs) And for the people who don't know it, it's kind of, like, a
bunch of, like, stories. And basically, it's like,
the Jews saying like, we gonna control the war. - Yeah.
- Then, we're gonna do this, and we're gonna do that, and whatever. What people don't know, that
that is a work of plagiarism. It was plagiarized from
a satirical play called "Conversation in Hell Between
Machiavelli and Montesquieu." And it is kind of, like,
based on one chapter or one scene or so, it's crazy. - But it's crazy how sticky it is, like- - Yes, yes.
- That's weird. - Because if I hate you, that's great. But if I have a story
to support that hate, ah, that's even better. - But it's, like, one of the best stories, one of the stickiest stories about hate. - Of course.
- It's probably the most effective, 'cause like, you know, a lot of peoples
hate other groups of peoples, but that's just like the
sexiest story of them all. - Because humans need to
concentrate their hate, their insecurities, and their
shortcomings into one thing that they can practice that hate on. If it's a person, great. If it's a group, even better. - Right, how do you, into this calculus, incorporated that that
group is pretty small? There's 16 million Jews worldwide. And you mentioned how is
that the responsibility of the Arab peoples, you know? Everybody should be to blame for not taking in Jews
after the Holocaust. But you know, the
reality of the situation, if we look at the religious slice of this, there's 16, let's say, million Jews, and there's, I don't
know, how many Muslims, but 1.8 billion?
- Yeah, yeah. That difference, that 100x difference, do you incorporate that into the sense that Jews in Israel
might feel for, you know, the existential dread that this small group might be destroyed? - Jews in Israel have
every right to feel afraid, because of everything that they see and everything they've
been told, everything. But I would say that the calculus or the numbers doesn't like, of course, like, being small, it
is, of course, a factor, but it is never an excuse in order to take something
that's not yours. It's saying like, "Hey, you
have 300 million Americans and we have 52 states. Give one state, there's too
many of them, too many of you. Just give them something." You know, it's like, the
fact that I have something and you don't, and
there are too many of me and there's little of you. And then you come in, and
it's not really Israel against the Arab world or the Muslim, or because we have to say
we fucked up big time. But it is the Palestinians that are in and they are being subjected to that. So it's not really like the 1.8 billion and the 16 million Jews. And the 1.8 billion, if you look at them, some of them, like, don't care. Some of them live in two
regimes, they're being oppressed. And those regimes are
supported by the United States in order, it's easier for me as an empire to take what I want from this country if I control the dictator. And I tell them that his
power is linked to my ability, to my desire to keep him in power. So that's why you have a total disconnect between people in power in the Arab and the Muslim countries
and the people themselves. - Can you speak to 1948? You know, 'cause you mentioned
taking land that's not yours, maybe parallels with Native Americans. - Mm-hm, yeah.
- There was a war, the Jewish minority fought that war against several Arab
states and won that war. How do we incorporate
that into the calculus? - Yeah, well, that's also a misconception, like, a misinterpretation of the event, because it seems that
it was, like, the small, it's kind of, like, a David
and Goliath kind of story. And I was always like,
"How did we not do that?" But in reality, with numbers,
I can't pull it up right now, but if you look at the
numbers, the number of tanks, the planes, the trained officer, because many of those Jewish fighters came from World War II, they
were seasoned fighters. And they actually had
more planes, more tanks, more artillery, more pieces of weapon, more of the all of other combined, because the people that
really, like, fought was Egypt. 1948, many of those Arab countries didn't even have their independence. So they would kind of,
like, send, like, a cavalry, or like, people in horses. But in fact, the whole idea was like, "we won against seven nations." - Sure.
- The numbers were totally in Israel favor. They were better equipped,
they were better trained. They had, like, more tanks
and artillery and aeroplanes, and they planned better. So yes, they deserved the win, because they planned and we didn't. - So to you, there was an
asymmetry military power even then?
- Yeah. - But what do you do with the
fact that the war was won? So like, if you look at
the history of the world, there is wars fought over land. - I agree with you, this has
been the history of humanity. Humanity was not living peacefully. It's all about, like, people taking people and killing people, taking their land. But there's two difference here. Mostly, usually, the conquering power, like, for example,
England, they had England, and they conquer you in India. And after the occupation
finished, they go back to England. France, Greece, Persia,
Egypt, they will, like, go in, expand and shrink, expand and shrink. It's always been there. What is different here
is exactly what happened in Australia and the United States. A group of people came in, not just to conquer and take the land, but to completely change, to replace them, and get them out or kill them. It was very easy with the Indians, because they had smallpox,
there was no social media. They did it over 400 years, they had time. The problem is what is
happening right now, I agree with you, it
might not be that new, but we are there and
we're watching it happen. - And so, now we have to
confront the realities of war and empire and conquering and- - Because, you know, what's the problem? We told ourself we can be better. - Yeah.
- After 1948, there was the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights. It means that we are
gonna be better humans. We're not gonna kill and take land. We're not gonna displace people. We're not gonna take
people for what they have. There's now laws, there's
international laws. There's international court of justice. And now, Israel is giving the
middle finger to all of them. - So isn't it in some fundamental way, this whole thing that we're talking about is us as a civilization on social media, in articles and books and in newspapers, we're just trying to figure
out who are we as a people. - I think the shock came from the fact that we thought that we
as humanity have evolved. And now, what have actually changed is that we became more advanced in effectively eradicating
a group of people because of the technology that we have, and the fact that we can do that under the eyes and ears of all the world. And we are watching it on
our phone, we have a window. We have a window to the war, you know? 1945, people didn't know
what was happening in Japan. Well, we hear about it on the radio. Like, oh, today, our forces came in and they launched, I don't know. We don't know, we heard it. We maybe we saw pictures after
that, and it's quite edited. But now, we see it, we're into it. And it is so much for our
psyche and we can get it. And the Arabs had said like, "Guys, you told us, we came to the West because we were told that we were equal." You know the universal
declaration of right? One of the co-authors, his
name is Stephane Hessel. He's a Jew, he is a
survivor of the Holocaust. And you know what happened to him? He died, by the way,
a couple of years ago, but before he died, he was
canceled by so many people, and he was called anti-Semitic, because he joined the BDS movement and he spoke about the truth of Palestine. That is the author of
the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that we value so much, and we think that that
would define our humanity. But then we go in and we are shocked. It's like, maybe we were sold something. Maybe that was false
advertisement. (laughs) - You shared a tweet by an
account called Awesome Jew. (Bassem laughs) It reads, "Islamo-Nazi
comedian, Bassem Youssef," comedian in quotes, by the way. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of
course, because I'm not funny. - So, Islamo-Nazi
comedian, Bassem Youssef, is now denying the October. I love that you retweeted
this, like, twice. - [Bassem] Yeah. - I guess suppose because it's advertising some
upcoming dates. (chuckles) He's now denying October 7th massacre. The Muslim radical Bassem Youssef is notorious for his
radical, radical said twice, for his radical hatred of Jews in Israel. In a recent clip, he claims
that the atrocities committed on October 7th are fabricated. We're looking for all information regarding any of his upcoming shows as well as the venues
which host the scumbag. Would Jews feel safe around this Nazi? Nazi.
- Yeah. - This is my first time
interviewing a Nazi. Big honor.
- I know. It's my first time I
actually get called a Nazi. - First time?
- First time. I have been called so
many things in Egypt. So in Egypt, I was called a
CIA operative, a Mossad spy, secret Muslim Brotherhood,
a secret Jew, secret Jew. There was also an article
that was published about me in the state-run media saying in details how Bassem has been
recruited by CIA agents using Jon Stewart in order to use satire to bring down the country. I was a free mason, an infidel, a member of the Knights of the
Temple, something like that. And there's actually people, the Muslim Brotherhood on their show, they would say like,
"He's actually Israeli, and they have forged an
Egyptian ID for him to come." So it's kind of, like, I said, I left all of that behind and I come here, it's like, boom, anti-Semitic Nazi. Damn! I mean, I really covered everything. I don't know what else. I mean, I think I have.
- Yeah. - It's kind of, like, I'm collecting PhDs. I'm just, like, getting
all of these credits. - How do you deal with that? How do you deal with the attacks? I mean, this goes back to the decision to do the interview with Piers Morgan. Like, how do you, like,
psychologically through all of it? - These kind of attacks,
at the beginning, it's fun, but when they evolve into something else, so for example, I was like laughing of all of the stuff about calling
me this, calling me that. But then when people would
come and threat the theater, because it's not the people who
are making those accusations that would come to you, it's
the people that will hear and see those accusations and act on it. And there's always the
fear of like, I mean, we have in the Arab world a lot of things, like, somebody would hear
something about someone else and go kill him and
whatever, like, anybody else. But somehow I wanna make fun of it. And to be called an Islamo-Nazi, it must been the funniest thing ever, because Islamo-Nazi, wow! How did you, and a radical Muslim, me? A lot of Islamists hate me.
- Yeah. - They call me a secular infidel. (laughs) So it's kind of, like, who am I? Maybe I have an identity crisis and I need the people to tell me who I am. - Well, let's go to the beginning. Let's go to your childhood. You grew up in Egypt, Cairo, Egypt. - My childhood. (laughs) - Well, let's figure out how
you came to be who you are. - How did you become an Islamo-Nazi? - Yeah, exactly. It's a long journey. I do like the swastika tattoo
on your ass, which I didn't- - How did you see my ass? (laughs) - You know what you did. - I know I didn't.
- It was very inappropriate. You're also obviously a
sexual harasser of me. - Is this is like a Me Too? - Yes.
- This is like, 2020. Someone would come up, it's like, okay. - We have clip it. This is your Me Too moment. All right, so, Cairo,
what's a defining memory, positive or negative, from your childhood? - My memory in general
was cool, it was cool. I went to a Catholic school until for primary school, the elementary. And by the time I'm done,
there was kind of, like, a start of a decline into
the public education. And my parents, they're like
middle-class working officials. My dad was a judge, my mom
was a business professor. And they were, like, one
of the people who's like, they didn't have that much luxury. My dad, like, drove, like,
a regular car, a Fiat, which is, like, the
equivalent for the Lada, yeah. - [Lex] Thank you for
speaking to the audience. - [Bassem] Yeah, yeah, the Lada. - Well, so would that be
a good car or bad car? - No, no it's kind of, like, the minimum. And my dad was not, like,
a man of showing off. Whatever money they would do, they would put it for us, education, give everything to their kids. This is kind of, like, a
very, very typical mentality. And I'm sure it's in many cultures, but like, we grew up with this, like, everything that we
have is, like, for kids. So they will put us into education. So middle school, 1986 was
the beginning of the explosion of, like, international
schools, private schools. And these schools were
relatively expensive. Of course, now with today's
currency, it's ridiculous. But at that time, it's very expensive. So I went to that school. And there was this moment, it was like, you feel less right away. I mean, of course, there's the
regular bullying and stuff, but it's not that, it's kind
of, like, you always feel less. You don't have that much
of, like, purchasing power that can allow you to
go to the same outings or travel with them. And even, like, how you dress, it will be modest compared to them. So I was always an outsider. And I compensated with that by two things, being good at school and
being good at sports. So I was not, like, the typical nerd who was just like, that. I was playing football,
basketball, track and field. And I was like, one of the people would like to have me on their team. So, I wasn't like, kind of, like, "Ah, he's a nerd, get him away." But I never had a girlfriend. I never had any kind of, like, I was not boyfriend material. So that's kind of, like, it leaves remnants in you
that you're not good enough. - But psychologically,
you're always, like, when you're by yourself,
you felt like an outsider. - Yes. All the time. And that's why it kind of,
like, I'm more of a loner. I don't have a lot of logical friends. I have acquaintances,
people that I do stuff with, but I don't have, like, the people that I tell them everything. When I went to medical school, now medical school is a different animal. Medical school is where all of the people from the public schools go. Public schools are very, like, they don't have English language
as, like, a strong part. But they are brilliant people. So because they would
mostly the study in Arabic, but they are brilliant and they are very, very,
very smart, very sharp. But then I'll go there,
now, I am the sissy boy from the private school that
comes into medical school. Now I'm an outsider again. And I go into residency
and I pick up salsa. So now, I'm a salsa teacher while being a cardiothoracic
surgery resident. And I'm an outsider for the third time, because in salsa, I'm kind of,
like, the respectful doctor. And in resident, I'm the
guy who is just dancing. And everything, of course,
as a medical resident, you will mess up a lot. - Yeah.
- So they would always like, "Oh, because you're a dancer. Oh, because you don't care about medicine. You just, like, wanna go
there and dance with women." (both laugh) Which is true.
- Yeah. (both laugh) And so all of my life, I
felt that I'm an outsider. I'm not part of the team, I'm
not part of the core group. And I have a story that you would love. Right before my residency,
I was so much into salsa. So I had all of the money
and then I saved that, and I was working summers
and I was doing extra jobs. And I took that money and I went to Miami. - Yeah? Nice, yeah.
- In order to learn Rueda de Casino, which is
the Cuban kind of, like, circle salsa kind of thing. And I went there in the summer of 2001. - Yeah.
- And my return ticket was 9/12, 2001. (laughs) - The universe has a sense of humor, I gotta tell you that.
- No, no, no. 9/12, I was supposed to be on
a plane coming back to Egypt. What happens? Thank God. I ran out of money 10 days before that. It's like, all right, I changed
my ticket and I came back. 9/11, I'm kind of like, huh. My mom, "Wake up, wake up!" What? What? And I see like the two
tower falling, I was like. My mom's like, "Oh, you're
here, you're here, you're here. Thank God, you're here."
- Yeah. - And I was like, I could have
been in Guantanamo right now. - [Lex] Yeah, flying at 9/12. - And by the way, I was
in Miami, when they went to the flying school in Miami.
- Yeah. - So, I mean.
- Yeah. - I had, like, 9/11 written
all over my face. (laughs) - [Lex] You'd be all over the news. - All over news.
- Exactly. - And my mom was like, "What,
he went there to dance salsa. I didn't know that salsa is
like a name for terrorist." - Why salsa, why did that attract you? And what, like, can you
explain what salsa is? So I mentioned to you offline that I've been doing a little bit of tango or trying to learn it. - Yeah, like, you know, samba,
salsa, bachata, merengue, it's kind of like Latin dances. And it's like, you know, I don't know how you describe salsa. Couple dance on Latin beat. - Yeah.
- And I did it because once I, and I talk about that in my Arabic standup
comedy, not the English. I talk about, like, how I was, you know, I didn't have, like, really,
like, a great social life. And my friends went there one day, and then I go into a place,
it was called El Gato Negro. No, no, it was called
Big Fat Black Pussycat. And then I think they thought it will be, like, racist or something. So to change it to El Gato
Negro, anyway, so. (laughs) - Great, great.
- I know. - Great decision.
- I know. So I went there, I was like,
"Damn, music and women." And I'm a doctor. A doctor dancing salsa,
that is a chick magnet. - [Lex] Yeah, 100%. - You know, we do everything for that. - All of human-
- Even power, even money. - All the wars we've been talking about- - Women.
- At the end of the day- - The approval from the other sex. We are babies, we are terrible people. - Yeah.
- So of course, like, I mean, that was, like, great. But then as a nerd, I went in so hard, and now I became a salsa teacher. - Yeah.
- And I earned more money from salsa more than I
did as a doctor. (laughs) - I didn't know this part
of you, that's hilarious. - I know, I was making
killing amount of money, like, huge amount of money. And I was just like, you know, I would go finish my shift
and I'd go to the salsa class. And sometimes, I would
have, like, 70 people in my salsa class.
- Oh, wow. - I had like the biggest
salsa class in Egypt. - Wow!
- In the beginning of the 2000, and it was fantastic. And it was an outlet, because you go there and there's the shifts and people dying. Damn, and you go, salsa. - [Lex] An escape, you
must have been good. - I was okay, I was cool. I was fun. There were people better than me. But I have a thing about
teaching, I like teaching people. - So, you mentioned heart surgery. So what motivated you to become a doctor? - It was a choice of exclusion. I mean, there's nothing else you can do with these high grades other
than doctor and engineering. I hate math, so go be a doctor. (laughs) This is the Middle East,
what do you expect? It's either, like, in my
joke, in my show, I said like, it can be one of three
things in the Middle East, a doctor, an engineer,
or a disappointment. That is the choices that you have. (both laugh) So years after, I'm a disappointment. (both laugh) Here I am. - You're damn good at it though. That's a hard path though. - Yes.
- Right? And it's a fascinating one. - Can I tell you something?
- Yes. - That actually I was thinking about, why did I actually go into medicine? And why did I always
choose the hardest thing although I didn't love it? And I have to tell you, I had an epiphany only two weeks ago. And I don't know if that's
actually related or not. You know, remember, when I
told you I went to this school and I didn't have that much money, and I didn't have the luxury of time or money to be with those
people and do what they do. So by the time I finished school and everybody was going to university, everybody in my school went to the AUC, the American University in Cairo. Of course, private. Like, American education, party time. Like, I mean, of course, they're
brilliant and everything, but they have a different,
you know, social life. And part of me, now, I kind of, like, I realized that just
like very, very recently. Maybe I went to the hardest school ever so I don't have space to
use other than studying. Because if I have that much space, what I'm gonna do with it? I don't have that much freedom. I don't have that much money. I can't compete with
those people going out. So maybe I need a solid
excuse that I'm in a place where I don't have that
much of a spare time. - Is it also possible, I like how this is a therapy session where we're a psychoanalyzing it. Is it also possible that
you always just pick the hardest thing you could possibly do? - Maybe, but- - Maybe that's the Piers Morgan thing too. - Maybe, but like when I
left Egypt and I came here, I still had the choice
to go back to medicine. - Sure.
- But I hated it. I hated it, medicine traumatized me. The amount of, like, you give up. You know, my brother in
Egypt, he had a daughter. She's a brilliant basketball player. She is in the national team, amazing. I used to play basketball
also in the Egyptian league, but I was kind of, like, my favorite position in the
court was the bench. (laughs) And I was not as good as her. And then it was time for
her to go into college. - Yeah.
- And he didn't talk to me for six weeks. I said, "Tamer, what's happening
to Farido, which college?" Like, I didn't wanna tell
you, she went into medicine. I said, "What, medicine? Why did he do?" Because he knows how I hated it. - Yeah.
- I was traumatized. And I said like, "Dude,
she's a basketball player. Make her go like to an easy school." He's like, no, so that's kind of inspired. - You still did it, you still did it. - Yeah, I still did it, but I don't know. Is it because of the difficulty or because of what I told you? Maybe I needed something, maybe because I was not very
confident in my social life, so I needed a distraction not to have that much of a social life. - Oh, wow, okay. - You understand?
- I see, yeah, uh-huh. - So, it's kind of, like, because I will always have
an excuse I'm studying. I have something. I have exams.
- Yeah. - And I don't know, I kind of, like, self-sabotaged my own thing, because I couldn't
compete with those people on the outing and the money and whatever, so I need an excuse to be as like, "Oh, he's a doctor, he's studying." - At least in your own
mind, you couldn't compete. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always felt as less because, I mean, I didn't have any girlfriends in school. Like, I had very little in life. I had everything thrown
to me came to life. So I always felt, even standup comedy, it came very late to me in life. So I always feel that I'm not good enough. I feel that I didn't spend the time to build the foundation
that other comedians do. So I always feel that I am too lucky. I always feel that this
is a fleeting thing. And when I had the height
and the fall in Egypt, when I would, like, the top of everything. I was, like, so famous, and then everything was taken from me. That's like, ah, you see. I told you that happens when you don't build foundation, you fall. - Yeah.
- So I always feel that I am not good enough. Or if I am in a position
where people think I am, deep inside, I am not. You know, that I have a speech impediment, that I was not meant to be a TV presenter? In Arabic, it's very obvious,
I cannot roll my R's. I cannot say arr, I cannot roll it. So in Arabic, like
Spanish, it's very obvious. So when I did my first
video on the internet that made me famous, and then I got my television
deed back there in Egypt. My partner at the time, he took the video and
he went to a producer. He said like, "Are you
giving me a guy with a lisp?" That's why when I came on television, I was the first ever guy with a lisp. I had two things going for
me, the lisp and the big nose. And I was always bullied
for these two all the time. So I always felt less. - See, but that's a foundation of, like, creating a great person. - Yeah, because if you're pretty, you don't need to do much. (both laugh) - I probably wouldn't recommend
it, but it is true that- - So, if you are pretty, do some disfigurement
at your face. (laughs) - Find the flaws and be extremely
self-critical about them. So you saw Jon Stewart on TV for the first time in 2003, I believe. How did that change your life? - I was in the gym and I was
running on the treadmill. And at that time, CNN was
coming, like, on cable. And I was watching, and
there is this studio. I don't know what it is. So I put the earphones on
and I started watching. And I was so taken by this
that I stopped the treadmill, and I just, like, stood
for 20 minutes like this on the treadmill, and I
just, like, standing there. I didn't know what he was saying. I didn't understand what is
Democrats, what is Republicans, those names that he's saying. What is Fox News? I don't understand. But I was fascinated. There was something, you know, when you don't understand the
music, but you get the rhythm? It was that. - I wonder what that is that you saw. It's like the timing of the humor. I mean, Jon Stewart is one of a kind, like, his biting criticism
of power, I would say, and also ability to highlight
the absurdity of it all. - But you understand, I
didn't understand any of that, but I didn't understand
any of the references. But it's the rhythm, the rhythm.
- Yeah, the music of it. - You know, sometimes, when
you even see, like, a comedy that's a language you don't understand, but there's a rhythm.
(imitates rhythmic beat) There's something, there's something in the music.
- Yeah. - So there's something with the videos and the pictures, and he and
the face, and people reacting. - Yeah.
- What is this, what is this? - Yeah, yeah.
- What is this? And we had the global edition. So I went to the YouTube and I just, like,
started to kind of, like, watch every single episode that I can. I said like, "Do you think
we can have this in Egypt?" They said, "Nah, never." And then 2011, like,
I had a friend of mine who was also a YouTube partner
to something new at the time. He said like, "Let's do
something on internet. Let's do something." I said like, "I wanna do Jon Stewart." It's like, ara ra ra, Do Ray William Johnson,
Jon Stewart will not work. I was like, "Ah, I want
to do Jon, that one." - Yeah, so that was in there? - Yeah, it was in there. And I did it, and it worked. - Can you talk about 2011? I mean, what was it?
- Yeah. - The Arab Spring, what is it? People here in America, you know? (laughs) - Depends on which side. - Did something happen or what? - Depends which side of
the equation you are. Because for a lot of
people, it's a conspiracy. It's American made, it is
the Muslim brotherhood. It's the Islamist, it is Israel. It is everything else other than people. Oh, but it's a pure revolution. I think we put too much
weight on conspiracies. I think it is normal human
behavior that then become, get maybe used or abused or taken advantage of by other powers. And then the conspiracy starts. But at the time, the Arab
Spring didn't start in Egypt. It started in Tunisia. Bouazizi's a fruit vendor,
like, burned himself up like, the American soldiers
who did that a few days ago, and that kind of sparked
protest in Tunisia. And Ben Ali was a dictator in Tunisia for about, like, 20 years,
and they removed him. So suddenly, it was kind
of, like, a domino effect. So then Egypt started,
and it just took 18 days. And you know, people, hindsight
is 2020, saying that like, you know, just Mubarak became, like, a burden on the military, because the military are the
real rulers of the country. You might have a president that kind of, like, have certain powers, but at the end of the day,
when the military sees that a certain president is,
like, too much of a burden, too much of, like, a, you
know, so like they cut him off. - And Mubarak is the leader of Egypt at the time.
- At the time. He was there for 30 years. - 30 years. By the way, speaking of which, 'cause it was a joke in
your Mark Twain speech. - Yeah.
- I got teary-eyed just watching that. That was just great,
you're, like, fucking great. Like, what you did, the Mark
Twain awards for Jon Stewart. It's great, I mean, your
comedy is great in general, and I wanted to go to your show. I definitely will. But that's, like, a little stroll on the complete tangent of
just a masterful introduction and celebration of Jon Stewart. Anyway, Mubarak.
- Yeah. - 30 years.
- And it's the joke that I say also like, Mubarak, like, was a president for 30 years. Like, oh, my God, we had
a president for 30 years. Like, it's the Middle East,
it's a very short first term. - Very short.
- It's like, we're still warming up, baby. - Just Warming up.
- And I told them like, we need to plan ahead.
- Yeah. We need to plan our vacations,
our careers, our jail time. It's just like we need to. (both laugh) - That's great, it's true. - So we had kind of like the shortest, nicest revolution. 18 days
- Yeah. - And we thought, "Oh, 18 days, we can change the country in 18 days." But of course, we were naive,
and we had this kind of hope. So Mubarak was removed. There was an interim
period by the military. Took it for one year,
then they did elections. Muslim Brotherhood came to power. They stayed for one year. And then the military removed them. And in these three years, my show started. It started by kind of,
like, a YouTube video. - It became famous overnight. - Overnight.
- Yeah. - Five to six videos, boom, went out. And at that time, I was waiting to get my
clearance to go to Cleveland. I was accepted in a fellowship
as a pediatric heart surgery in a hospital in Cleveland. And I said, "All right, I'm just gonna do a couple of videos. Maybe I'm gonna put in on internet. And maybe after a year or two, after I come back from the
fellowship, somebody will come, "Hey, why don't you write a show that looks like Jon Stewart." That was my mind. Took five weeks. I had my first contract of television. And overnight, the exposure. And over the next two, three years, I had 30 to 40 million people
watching every episode. A lot of this, like,
"Wow, that's too much." That is terrifying.
- Yeah. - Because it means that
there are 30 million people who have an opinion about you. - Yeah, you said there's a lot of aspects of that sudden fame
that were just horrible. - It's toxic, it's toxic. It's unnatural, it's unnatural. When people started to
recognize me in the street and take pictures, I was awkward. It's like, why do you wanna
have a picture with me? Why? Because I didn't feel
that I'm worthy enough to be, like, a reward for
someone to have a picture. And I didn't understand it. I was kind of an ass sometimes, because people thought it was arrogance. No, it was confusion. And I remember like, my
director and my producers and people around, they always
saw me in a very bad mood. It's like, why are you not enjoying this? It's like, because this is not natural, this is not natural. This adoration, this love,
and this have to end somehow. And it did. And because, at a certain
point, you are human. And people, kind of the
adoration and the fun and the love comes, because
they see you saying stuff because you do your job basically. Political satire is
basically us making fun of politicians in the media.
- Yeah. - And a lot of people have
a lot really strong opinions about politicians in the media. So we came there, we articulate that and we give it to 'em
and we make 'em laugh. So for them, we made a great job. So why don't you do more? But you are limited. And at a certain time, you can't. And a certain time, you're
afraid because we're humans. Because you're afraid about
like, if I continue speaking up, not like, something will happen
to me, I'm kind of, like, maybe have some protection
because people see me. But what the people around you? And I've seen that. So that's why, at a certain point, it's like, that's it, I can't. - I mean, there's a lot
of things to say there, but one of the difficult things
of fame in your situation is you're not just having
fun, you're criticizing power. - Yeah, and it is loved by the people, but it comes with a price. Because at a certain, if
the power is too strong and you are not into a situation or a system that allows that, that gives you that kind of safety. - So, what happened? (Bassem giggles) - What happened. So the height of my fame, when the Muslim Brotherhood was in power. And at that time, they had
their media and I had one show. I had, like, one-hour per week. And they had five channels, 24/7. And they were like, you know. Jon Stewart said it beautifully once. It's like, we say shit and you say shit, and we just say shit better than you. This is exactly what Jon Stewart was like. We're not better at
saying shit back at you. - Yeah.
- So basically, I had one hour and they had, like, the five
thing that they were like, you know, they're calling
me all kind of names, not just me, like, all
their enemies, you know? And then I just had one hour and I would kind of like
annihilate them in one hour a week. So at a certain point,
they would even like, kind of be the side with the army against the kind of the liberal, seculars, whatever you call it. And at a certain point, the army kind of like flipped everybody. - What do you mean flipped? - Like, kind of, like, yeah, they removed the Muslim Brotherhood. They came to power. And I have to say, I admit it, I supported that in the beginning, because I had daily threats. I was actually interrogated and arrested under the Muslim Brotherhood. I was in an interrogation for six hours. And they were asking me
all day about my jokes. And I used that in my standup comedy, describing exactly what happened in the six hours, and
it is so funny. (laughs) - Okay, well, it is hilarious. Slow down. You were interrogated by
the Muslim Brotherhood. - The general prosecutor,
the general prosecutor. And it was based because of complaints by the officials and the government. Because in order the
general prosecutor to do it, it has to have a high up mandate to bring that person to questioning. - Oh, so they went through
kind of official channels. - Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. - It's all-
- Yeah, it was official. It was legal, legal.
- Okay, very legal. - So I went there and I asked, and it's kind of, like, a
bunch of like, insulting Islam, insulting president,
spreading false rumors. And I went there, and it was funny because I go into the building where there's police
officers and there judges, and all of them are big
fans of the show. (chuckles) And some of them were
taking pictures of me. And then I'm sitting there, and it was the most
ridiculous interview ever, because he was asking me about my jokes. He's like, "What did
you mean by this joke?" And I was like, "Nothing." (laughs) And it was there for six hours. - He's just reading your jokes back to you?
- He was reading my joke, and he's reading the jokes, and the junior judge is sitting
there, like, cracking up. - Yeah.
- He's like, "Oh, I remember that." He's like, "Guys, guys." (laughs) - That's dark. - It's kind of, like.
- Yeah. - And I'm laughing, but in the same time, it's like, the whole
situation is ridiculous. But then at the end, I
was released on bail, so I went back to my show
and I make fun of that. And you have to be honest, the Muslim Brotherhood were in power, but Egypt were, like,
right out of the revolution for there was kind of like an equal spread of power between the people. There was not, like,
someone who would come in and just like, the Muslim
Brotherhood didn't have that power yet, but they were kind of, people saw that they
were moving towards that. And then the tension rose, and then there was, like,
a kind of a confrontation between them and the army, and then a lot of people
were killed in the street. It was terrible massacre. And then suddenly, I am
blamed for all of that. It's like, "You made fun of us, so now it made it easier
for people to kill us." It's like, "Dude, come on,
you are doing that to me too. I just did it better than you." And the fact that you
sided with the same people that flipped against
you, that's not my fault. - Did you criticize the army at all? - Yeah, so after that show, I did, like, one episode against the army and I was canceled the next day. And then I went to another channel, did 16 episodes in a different season. And I was walking on eggshells, and then that was canceled again. And then the production company that was doing my show
that we severed ties because we didn't have the show. They had their offices raided. They had people, like,
having death threats. So I woke up one day,
11th of November, 2014, and my lawyer said like,
"Leave the country right now. There is this legal case
that they kind of, like, they're coming for you." But I said like, "You cannot." This was an arbitration case and I lost against the channel
that basically canceled me. And I said like, but there's
no jail time in arbitration. He's like, "Yeah, tell that
to the judge, just leave." So I jumped on a plane. The verdict was 12 noon, 11 November, 5 afternoon, I was on a plane, left Egypt, and I never came back since then. - Was there a worry of non-legal
things like, assassination? - I can tell you something. I was so stressed because of the show and because of everything, sometimes, I would wake up in the morning and I hope that a bullet will
come and finish everything, because I was so stressed. It's like, I would love, because I'm too much of
a chicken to kill myself, so I would, like, rather have
someone else do it for me. So I was so under so much pressure. And I remember the day that, like, my show was canceled indefinitely the second time under the army. And I was like, I don't
have to worry about what kind of script I
have to write next week, because you know, remember, when you asked me about, like, that tweet? But like, all of those said, those accusation doesn't bother me. Infidel, spy, secret Jew,
Zionist, Islamo-Nazi. That's bullshit. What really leaves a mark is the criticism to your craft and your work. So you're not funny, goes deeper. - Yeah, certain things get
to you better than others, especially if you have,
like, a secret suspicion that you are, like, maybe not funny. - Maybe I'm not because
I was put into that. It's like, because that
touched your insecurities like, I know, but you shouldn't say it out loud.
- Yeah. (both laugh) - [Lex] You shouldn't
say the truth out loud. - You shouldn't say it out loud, like, keep it yourself. (laughs) - But what about the weight
of the responsibility of speaking truth to power? Sort of, like, walking on eggshells. Like, what did that feel like? - Well, after the Muslim
Brotherhood were removed, you have to understand, like, when the military coup happened,
it was a very popular coup. Like, people love the army. In Egypt, the army is more
sacred than the religion. People love the army,
the army can go no wrong. So me going against the army was, I mean, the Muslim Brotherhood
was not very popular. They were popular for their own basis, but people accepted the fact that, like, we make fun of them. But Sisi, at that time, he was a God. And I used to go to this
high-class club called Gezira Club. And this is basically kind
of upper middle class, upper class kind of people. And during that year of
the Muslim Brotherhood, I was the most popular ever. People come, yay! When the military came in,
people were walking to me, like, pointing their fingers like, "Don't speak about Sisi. Don't speak about the army, huh? We love you now, but don't you." They were like that. So I called Jon Stewart. I was like, "I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do." And at that time, all of the channels,
were, like closed down. I was the only one left because
it was difficult for them to get rid of me very quickly,
because I was too popular. It was kind of, like, piecemealing. And I remember I told him like,
"I don't know what to do." He said like, "You don't
have to do anything. Just your safety comes first." And I said, "But I can't. I mean, I've been doing
that for two years, and I cannot just like
say, 'bye-bye, guys.' I have a responsibility, I have a team. I have people working for me." And I also, I cannot just like disappear. And he said the most
interesting thing ever. And said, "If you're afraid of something, make fun about the fact
that you're afraid of it instead of talking about that something." - [Lex] Brilliant, yeah. - So there was like a whole episode that we did not even mention Sisi. We did not even mention it, but the videos did all the thing. And the whole episode was me trying to avoid talking about him. And that how the comedy was created. The fact that I don't wanna be here. So he said like, you will be surprised how people can relate to that, because there was a lot of kind of, like, "Oh, we love him, but we
feel we cannot speak." So just by doing the simple thing about mirroring the society,
that goes a long way. And I kind of try to do what
I can under the military. I mean, they came up with
a machine that treats AIDS and hepatitis C virus and
basically every single, and I went to town with that. Because people think, it
doesn't really have to go to the bigger post,
like, you're an asshole. No, you talk about their propaganda. You talk about what they want people to perceive them at, and it's a failure. And for that, that kind
of hit them even more. Because what do authoritarian figures do? They work on two things,
fear and propaganda. And from that, it gets the respect. So when you go into their
propaganda and expose them, they have nothing else. - That's brilliant. So like, you are walking on eggshells, but you're doing it masterfully, that you're revealing sort of
the flaws in the propaganda, the absurdity of the propaganda in so doing or criticizing them. - And this is why comedy is very specific. Because people say, "You
were not as hard on him as you were on the Muslim." I was like, "Yes, because
on the Muslim Brotherhood, we were just, like, saying
shit to each other." - Yeah.
- But now, the ceiling was, like, here. So, it's kind of, like, how
can you do something from here? - Yeah, exactly. That's the art form. Yeah, in the Soviet Union under Stalin, a lot of the criticism came
from, like, children stories and children's cartoons.
- Yeah. Double meaning. - Yeah.
- Double innuendo stuff that means other stuff. - Real crazy.
- That's the brilliance. - Yeah, but everyone knows.
- Everyone knows. - Because you are like,
you're mirroring the society. It's fascinating actually. - And that's why I was canceled twice. (both laugh) - And that is a scary one, the army. You see that in Ukraine. - Yeah.
- Everybody supports the army. That's why Zelenskyy
getting rid of the head of the army was a big, big deal. It's a really dangerous thing, 'cause everyone's afraid
to say anything negative about the army, especially
during war in that case. And in this case, maybe
there's a civil war, that kind of thing.
- But think about it. Actually, an army during
peace is much more dangerous. Because think about it, I don't really have an enemy to fight, but I have all of this
power, all of this tank. Why is this actually
have more money than me? - Yeah.
- I'm protecting him. Why does this businessman think that he can get onto his
private plane and go to Paris? And why I'm here sitting like, not having all of these things? And there's a lot of time on your hand, because your job is to go fight. When you don't go fight and
when you have the lack of, that's why that's one of the thing I love the United States about, is the fact that the army
cannot really get power. But the kind of, like,
the power is actually in the military industrial complex, which is a different issue. - Yeah.
- It's kind of, like, a different kind of issue. But if you have all of that power, like, why am I sitting around just, like, playing guard for you guys? - That's why Iran is terrifying, 'cause you have this military that it just becomes a
police force that turns against its own people.
- Yeah, yeah. - So you're a famous guy talking shit in the middle of all that. - Yeah, and when I left, I
went through a very dark side. Dark, dark, dark, because
all of the insecurities, all of the stuff that had been, like, working on my head now came to life. And now, I'm in America and I'm a nobody. - Yeah.
- I'm a nobody. And now, it's like, I
have to do something. I have to earn some money. So I started to stand up
comedy five years ago. - Yeah.
- And I sucked, because it was my second
language and I was new. And now, I would go to these
comedy clubs with, like, kids and 21, 22 people,
and I'm there with a family to support, and I'm going
there to do it for $15, $20. And I was bad, I was bad. - You're bombing.
- Bombing big time. - Eating shit.
- Eating shit big time. Dying up there big time. And I would go back home and I would cry. And then what made it worse
is sometimes like, a fan. - Yeah.
- Like, not a fan. A bunch of fans from Egypt. Oh, Bassem Youssef, they come, it's like. (Lex laughs) - Yeah, just the-
- The disappointment. That kind of, like, face of adoration. - Yeah, yeah.
- Like, that goes into. (both laugh) And I could see it in their face. - Yeah.
- I think he's gonna drive an Uber in a couple of weeks. (laughs) That kind of pressure. And I would go and I would cry, and then essentially, "Oh, you left. You gave up, you were a
sellout, you're a coward. Why don't you speak from
abroad? You are safe now." I already spoke. I don't want to be, 'cause I
don't wanna be an activist. I was doing that for comedy
when it was good for everybody. But now, they want me to go into YouTube and just like, throw rocks from outside. I was like, you do not
understand I have family there. - Yeah.
- And it was this kind of, like, thing, like, that I am being, like, attacked for not doing what I
should do in their face and attacked for not being
funny and not doing good. And now, I'm afraid
like, maybe it was wrong. And I didn't know, it was so traumatic that I don't know actually how
I went through these years. And I blocked so many
details from my brain, because I have been using
this technique for a while now that there is a lot of
memory gaps in my brain. And I'm trying to suppress it, because it was very, very, very traumatic. And a lot of people told me,
"You have to go to therapy." But I don't know, I'm worried
to open the floodgates. And I'm thinking, as if as I'm functional and I'm not killing anybody, I'm okay. (both laugh) - I think Elon tweeted, "Never Went to therapy is
gonna be on my headstone." - Yeah. (both laugh) - So you're of best buds, okay. I mean, that is, like,
terrifyingly difficult to like, after being a surgeon,
after being a superstar, super famous, going to eat
shit at local tiny clubs in the United States. I mean, eating shit, period.
- Yeah. - Like, bombing is really,
really, really difficult, really difficult for 20-year olds. - Imagine when you're 45, 46, and then people's like, "Is
this his midlife crisis? What is the..." (both laugh) I went through a lot of
pain and a lot of, like, the doubts, and it was terrible. - I mean, how did you survive? I mean, I know you blocked off most of it, but what gave you, like,
strength through all that? - Because I didn't have any other choice. Because I started that, and the only reason that
I could is continue. I don't know what else to do. I don't wanna go back to medicine. I don't want to do that. And I don't know, and
bit by bit, bit by bit, I started to kind of, like, be
better, be better, be better. And I was at a certain time,
a year ago, a year ago, this is where I started to kind of, like, hone the craft and kind
of sell more tickets, and sometimes even sell out some shows, and sometimes sell a theater. So like, it was going, and the money was flowing and it was good. And then I was like, I want
it faster. I want it more. I want it now. I want
Netflix deal, and whatever. And then the Piers Morgan thing happened, and then I blew up. And then suddenly I'm
selling out to everywhere. And it's like, "Ah, if those people came, if the war happened two years
ago, I will not be ready." So now, they come to the
show, and by the way, my show had nothing to
do with the October 7th. My show is my thing that I've
been crafting and working on. You know how difficult
it's to do the first hour, the hour that I've been
working on for five years. And it's all my personal story, all about like, what
happened to me in Egypt, me as an immigrant, coming
here to the United States, finding Trump as a president, finding myself in the
middle of a guns rally, finding myself in the middle of a bombing. Kind of, like, talking about
how I got my citizenship. It's like, funny stories
about, like, my origin story. So they come in and they
expect me to October 7th, and all they see is my personal story. But it's good, and it
kills and they love it. It's like, if that kind of,
like, blew up in America, happened to me two, three years ago, people would come and be disappointed. - I gotta say the timing of
October 7th is very suspicious. - Oh, my God. Please don't say that. - I don't know. I'm just asking questions, I don't know. - I'm telling you, one
of the funniest thing. A guy, I was in Dubai and
like a TV anchor came to me. "Bassem Youssef, he flourishes
during revolutions and war." I was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, what? Dude! You're making me sound like
a bad omen, a very bad omen." - Yeah, you, Hamas, and Bibi together orchestrated all of this.
- Oh, my god. That's the trilogy. (laughs) - You guys should go on the road together. I'm telling you that phone call is coming. - Yeah, but Hamas has to open. (both laugh) - And that would really bomb, right? - That would really bomb. (both laugh) - Oh, I love dark humor. You do a show, like, you were saying, in English and in Arabic. And the story is very different. - Totally different,
two different stories. - I would love to just
the language difference, because it's the music of the
language is also different. So like, how can you
convert it into words? But what's the difference in
the music of the languages? - I'll tell you, because
I thought about a thought. (both laugh) - All right, all right, all right. - Okay, so, when I was
doing the English first. - Yeah.
- I actually had good jokes, but I was missing the
delivery, because the cadence and the music and the rhythm is different. The way that an English speaking Americans member of audience will receive it, it will be different
than how I receive it, the energy, everything's different. So when I kind of, like, got it, I didn't know how to
switch back to Arabic. - Oh, wow, yeah, fascinating. - Because here's the thing, with English stand up comedy, you have a huge library,
you have, like, a legacy. You have, like, years and years and years and years of people doing comedy. But in Arabic, it's very new to us. And most of the Arabic standup comedy, especially in Egypt, is very tamed. This is kind of, like, imagine
the standup comedy scene in American 1960s before Lenny Bruce. - Oh, so no swearing, conservative, careful.
- No swearing, nothing. Conservative, everything
kind of, like, not yet. It's kind of like very... So I didn't know what to do there. So I broke the barriers. I became Lenny Bruce,
I became George Carlin. So I went in and I
changed the whole thing. - Seven words you're not allowed to say. - For me, they're 15 words. (both laugh) - That's a lot.
- A lot. Arabic is a very rich language. - [Lex] Yeah. - So when I did, here's the difference between the Arabic and the English show. The English show, surprise, surprise, is a unifying language
even for a group of Arabs. So if I give the same exact show to the same 1,000 audience
members in the same theater, and they're the same people, same makeup of, like, Lebanese,
Egyptian, Syrian, Saudis, English will be a unifying language. Arabic is a dividing language. - Why is that?
- Because you have 22 dialects and the dialects are vastly different. And like, maybe Egyptians understand a little bit of Lebanese,
but not that much. But the reference is
Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian, totally different animal. That's like a totally different language. Saudi, Emirati, Kuwaiti,
totally different. People understand the Egyptian dialect, because it's the dialect of most of the artwork and the movies. But the reference in
the everyday street talk might not be understood by them. So now, I have to go in and talk to all of
these dialects together. So I formed my big part
of my show is like, what are you guys expecting of this? When I go do profanity
and you're gonna like it, this is the problem with
that, the show as a dialect, and I construct all of these sentences formed of so different, different words. For example, an iron in any
Arab dialect is an iron. In Saudi Arabia, it means ass. That's one example.
- Yeah. - That's one example, you know? So imagine if you can
actually construct sentences having all of these things in one set. So I would construct, like, a whole section of my show about that. - So it's really very much about, like, self-reflective on language and the limits of language that's allowed. - And the limits of language, and I tell them part of the show is like, I know what's the problem
with me doing Arabic. It's like, if this was an English show and I was telling you
fucking shit and bitch, you'll be, ha-ha-ha. But if I do one swear word,
all of you will scream. - [Lex] Yeah. - It's like, why?
- That is fascinating. - Is it because we are ashamed? - Yeah.
- So it's kind of, like, it's not just, like, about
swearing, it's about like, there's a lot of philosophical
pathways in this. Yeah, there is profanity, and people have fun, whatever, but like, it is about, like,
how do we treat our language? And I tell them, we speak Arabic as Arabs, but it's not the same Arabic. It's crazy, right? - And you're doing the
show in America also, which is another level of- - Oh, yeah, actually, the
Arab diaspora in America is some of the best audiences I have. They are, like, wonderful. And I did it also in the Middle East. And maybe I'll do, like, an Arab tour in the Middle East in the fall. - Which countries would you go to and not? - I already did Jordan, Lebanon. I'm doing UAE, I'm doing Kuwait. - Egypt?
- Bahrain. Egypt, I don't think so. I don't think so. - Is it personal? Is it
worry about your safety? - Well, I have the American
citizenship right now, so I am relatively safe. There is a block.
- Sure. - Honestly, there's a block.
- Yeah. - There's so much that happened. And I will never badmouth Egypt. This is my country. Like, it has all of my memories, 40 years of my life I lived there. But when you get hurt so much,
instead of trying to kind of, I don't wanna take revenge,
I don't wanna, like, battle. I just want to avoid, because
Egypt gave me so much fame and so much love and so much
hate and so much rejection. It was a very tumultuous relationship. Very, very difficult. And a lot of people tell me,
"Well, don't you miss Egypt?" And I tell them every time, the Egypt that I miss
is not there anymore. It's not bad or good,
it's not worse or better. It's just I'm different. And the places are different
and the people are different and their circumstances are different. Whatever image that you have of what you love is not there anymore. That's why a lot of immigrants,
especially Arab immigrants, they live here, but they're there. And then when they go back for a vacation, they get disappointed, because they didn't find what they want. And then they come back here
and they're disappointed, because this is they wanna come back, but it's not there anymore. - Yeah, their view of that
place is from a different time. You know, my parents, but everybody that left the Soviet Union, I mean, it's such a complicated
relationship with that. It sometimes borders on
hate, disappointment. In the case of the Soviet
Union, perhaps similar to Egypt, is the promises sold when you were younger and the promises broken by the possibility of what it was supposed to be. With the Soviet Union, I'm
sure with Egypt it's the same. Iran is the same. So they have a very complicated
relationship with that. - Yeah, this is why, like, for example, people from Iran, you know, I remember. I remember quite well the World Cup that was done in the United States. And the Iranian team
were playing in America. And they were people in the
audience all wearing Iran. They hate the regime, but they
have this kind of connection with the country.
- Yeah, yeah. - And this is the whole thing. You can actually love the country and you not have to agree with the regime. - Would you ever perform in the West Bank? - No.
- Gaza? - Because if I go there, I have to go through
the Israeli checkpoints, and I don't wanna go through the Israeli. I don't want to have an Israeli soldier telling me what to do. - Yeah, there's a demeaning
aspect to that whole. - Very.
- Even in subtle ways, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have so many Palestinian friends with an American passport,
US passports, living here. They're born here, and they
talk about the humiliation and the intimidation and the
harassment that they go in. It's like, do you want me to try? - Yeah, that little bit of a humiliation. - A little bit. - Oh, sometimes, it's major. - I know, I know.
- But I noticed that, you know, even the little bit
has, after a lifetime of that, it can turn to hate towards the other. - [Bassem] Yeah, and resentment. - Resentment, and then how do you do anything
with that resentment? - I have a friend of mine, he is from Palestine, from the West Bank. He's American here, he is born here. And we talk about, you know, we have, of course, all of this
discussion of what happened. And he tells me, you
know, in October 11th, in the West Bank, and there
was a village called Qusra. And on that village, like, the settlers went
in around the village and they send a message on Facebook. It was like, "You rats,
get out of your sewers and we're gonna be waiting for you." Intimidation through technology. And then, Qusra have,
like, another settlement next to it called Esh Kodesh. Esh Kodesh, they have people there who were training something
called (speaks in Arabic), Which is basically the guardians of Isha. And it's like a paramilitary group that trains other settlers
on military combat, give them weapons and do,
like, military drills. And they went there, like,
militarized and went there, and it was actually co-founded
by a Jew from Brooklyn, not even, like, an Israeli. And he's, like, one of the
disciples of Meir Kahane. I'm sure that you know who Meir Kahane is, who was a Jewish defense lead. The people who assassinated Alex Odeh here in the United States. And they were there with
their weapons outside intimidating people. This story carries everything that is wrong with the situation. You have people from
Brooklyn, from outside, just because they're Jewish, they can come and they can claim the
land from the people there. Anybody from (indistinct), just because he's Jewish, you can come and take the
land from other people. They're using technology
to intimidate Palestinians. They have unchecked military power. These are not IDF soldiers,
these are settlers. And they have free reign
in order to intimidate and to kill the people. And you understand, this is
the daily life of Palestinians, not in Gaza, in the West Bank. - What do we do, what do people do to nudge this towards
peace, towards flourishing? - Here's the thing, I wanna
talk to the people of Israel. What is Israel doing right now is not just unfair to the Palestinians, it's unfair to the
Jewish people in Israel. No, it is unfair to the Jewish
people around the world, because the way that Israel
links itself to the Judaism, at a certain point, you know, remember like Isis and Al-Qaeda and when everybody hated Muslims? You know, sometime, humans are simple. They cannot have the nuances to separate. So anybody who with a Muslim name, with a Muslim face, with
a beard or looks Muslim, he would do it because of that
actions of those atrocities. You have the power as a
person to separate yourself from an abusive power, a
horrible power and be yourself. I am really worried because
the rise of antisemitism and the rise of hate against Jews is not because of the Jews. It's because of the
actions of a government. Jews do not have to be
on the side of apartheid. Ronnie Kasrils, he is
a Jewish South African, and he fought shoulder to
shoulder next to Nelson Mandela. He was part of the African
National Conference, ANC. And he had an article say like,
"I know what apartheid is, and I saw Israel and
this is what they have." And the thing is that Israeli government should listen to other people. You cannot call anybody who criticize you either an anti-Semite, or
if they're already Jewish, you call them, like, self-hating Jew. You cannot do that, you
cannot continue doing that. When I would go in and criticize
the Islamist, it was like, "Oh, you're self-hating Muslim. You're not really Muslim. You're an infidel, you're secret, you're a secular, whatever." We have the power in
order to reform the course by holding people in power accountable. And the thing is, it is very stupid to actually call this antisemitism. And like, my idol is Jon Stewart. I voted for Bernie Sanders. (laughs) Sara Taksler, the one who
did this amazing documentary about me, "Tickling Giants," she's a Jew. She's married to an Israeli Jew. We have a good ratio because
we know what the right is. They don't have to associate themselves with the action of the Israeli government. - One of your favorite words, jihad. (Bassem laughs) - That's my favorite hobbies. - It's his favorite hobby.
- It's in my shows. Like, what's his favorite? It's that I talk about like, how when a white shooter does something, he talks about all of his family. And I'm always like, what if we did this,
like, for Arab terrorists? What are his hobbies? Jihad. (both laugh) You see, you could be a comedian. - Yeah, wow! You're making me feel good, okay. Sam Harris has done
several episodes on jihad, and people should go listen to it, even if you disagree with it. But the basic idea that he's
proposing is that this idea of jihad, in a negative
connotation of it, of martyrdom, is the thing that gets
is counterproductive, is destructive to the
possible future flourishing of Palestinian people. What do you think of that? There's just the idea of martyr- - Yeah, I totally agree, but like, people don't
wake up in the morning and say like, I wanted to clear jihad. Think about it. Why would anybody choose to end his life by taking other people
with him and end that life? His life must be miserable,
he must be pushed into that. Nobody chooses death over life willingly. One of the first suicide bombers in the Palestinian
resistance were Christians. We don't talk about that. - I think he would say that
the presence of a story that you can tell yourself when you're in a really shitty place, that you can go to a much better place. - Yeah.
- By sacrificing your own life, just the
fact that the presence of that story is there is harmful. - Of course. But here's my problem with Sam Harris. And usually, people will,
they have free range talking about the Islamic faith
and nitpicking the stuff that makes it put in a bad light. I can go and nitpick
every single religion. There are Jews there that been here who openly say spitting on
Christians is not a hate speech. All right? I mean, you can bring me,
like, all kind of videos of Islamic Jihadists saying
horrible things on YouTube, and I can bring you Jews who live there. They say like, "We gonna
have the whole world enslaved for us and everybody would
love to be slave for the Jews." You know, I can use the Talmudic argument that if you tie a man to a tree and he dies of thirst and hunger, you didn't kill that man. And this is kind of the
same arguments like, "Ah, we not killing Palestinians. It's just like killing man, and they were dying by
themselves," you know? So the nitpicking of a certain narrative, religious narrative, that is separate from the political context and
what's happening right now, it's very unfair, because I can read. If you wanna have a deep
dive into religious texts, nobody will be happy. And I can bring stuff from the Talmud and the Torah and stuff that is horrible. But like, you know, this is a way again of, like, distraction. - I dare you to talk about
Buddhism and Jainism though. Try.
- Well, you know, the people who killed
the Muslims in Myanmar, weren't they Buddhist?
- Yeah. Well, let's go Jain. Okay, I'll find a little bit. I got to get back to you.
I'll have to find the- - The flying monster. The Church of the Flying
Monster is spaghetti. (laughs) - As a person who tries not to eat carbs, I'm deeply offended by that. - I mean, there's Scientologists, all they do is actually buy real estate. (both laugh) - I think there's a few books written about the fact that they
do other stuff as well. (Bassem laughs) So even there.
- I know, I know. - Mormon, sometimes, they're some of the nicest
people I've ever met. - Yeah.
- But I'm sure there's also darkness there too. Oh, boy, religion. - There's soaking in Mormon. - There's what?
- Soaking. - What's soaking?
- Okay. So soaking basically, like,
if you get into the woman and you don't move, that's not adultery. That's not like... - Oh, interesting. So- - [Bassem] Yeah, you go
in and you just stay. - There's a loophole. - There are loophole, that's
the thing about religion. There's a loophole.
- Religion has a loophole. - Yes, and Muslims, we
do that the whole time. We pick and choose our sins,
the stuff that we enjoy. It's just, we are humans. - 72 versions waiting for all of us. - Maybe if I converted you
as a Jew, I'll get you 80. I don't know, you know,
like, we can negotiate. - Right, but I also have
questions about whether- - It will be a very good deal. I'll give you, and maybe
I'll throw there a Camry. - I have to honest,
Camry, it's pretty good. What year? I don't know. - 1998.
- All right. - Best year ever. (laughs) - Well, they last a long time.
- Yeah. - So, I'm not sure I want '78, '72. - I'll throw five in the
mix and see how we feel. - Yeah. Can we-
- If you wanna upgrade. - [Lex] Can we do a trial period? But in general, if you just zoom out, do you think religion, in what way, is it good for the world
and what way is it harmful? - If there was no religion, humans would have invented religion. Because think of, like,
the early humanity. Like, you are, like,
a caveman or whatever. And then, like, you see
your family members killed, and then you say, like, what? I'm gonna be like the sheep or the gazelle that just, like, ends in perish. I am more important. I think with the development
of consciousness, humans, like, thought that
they are much more precious and important than the other animals, because they have now intelligence. So my life will not end like that. Death will be even more important. There's consequences for that. There's consequences for what I do. And then the early man was
like, they're in the desert and all of these, like,
natural phenomenon. They didn't know what
to do, they were afraid. So they need to have refuge. They need to have
something to take care of. They need to have a reason for everything. Because if there's no reason,
it's chaos, it's chaos. - It's terrifying.
- It's terrifying. It's terrifying, there's nothing. There has to be a reason. There has to be a reason,
there has to be a purpose. There has to be, like, a cause, something. I'm not just gonna be like, die like a cockroach being stepped on. And that's kind of,
like, part of it is ego. - The whole world rotates
around you in a way. - It's the ego. So religion actually got a lot
of it from humanity itself. Like, me, us, like, us being humans. And many religion is a
collection of stories. And those stories based on things that humans did themselves and
they attributed it to gods. - And there's an aspect of religion where you humble yourself before a thing that is much greater than you. So that has a, I would say, a very positive effect of humbling. - It will be great if it stopped there. - Yeah.
- But here's the thing, if you humble in order
that your ego kicks in and feel that you are
better than someone else who's not humble in front of the same God. - Don't go there. - That means that I will
have all of that trait that I can use that because now, what does mean being humble? I'm divine.
- Yeah. So I'm way more humble than you. - Ah, but you're not. So you see how they kind
of, like, the oxymoron. I'm humble and I'm surrendering,
but in the same time, I am better than you
and I'm more entitled. Isn't it crazy? - Yeah, it's beautiful,
it's crazy, absurd. - Look at like the Muslim,
Christians and Jews and every like, it's like, "All right, Muslims, we surrender." I mean, I'm talking
about the extreme ones. I mean, like people. So, I surrender to God,
good. Keep it that way. - Yeah.
- Like, if you go there, I surrender to God, that
means that I am closer to God, then you should die! - Yeah.
- Okay, Christians. Christ is love and he loves
me and we gonna be together, but you don't get into
his kingdom and you die. You see, it is the same thing. - [Lex] Yeah. Yeah. - It's just, if you-
- Just stop it. - Like, stop there. Stop where you are humble and you feel that you're a piece of shit. - Yeah.
- And you are worthless human being and you are there. - Yeah, yeah.
- Stop there. But once you says like, oh, that makes me a
better person than you, and it makes me more with God than you. So that would give me the
entitlement to kick your ass. - Yeah, we always ruin a good thing. - Don't we? (both chuckling) - That ego. You've been outspoken, you
know, with Piers Morgan, but just on this topic, and you talked about the Superman story. Which I would love it if you
were in a Superman movie. But have you lost job
opportunities because of this, because of speaking up? - There was a couple of things that were going on, but they stopped. Again, I don't know if October 7th. - The Superman story, just so- - Yeah, yeah.
- So what role were you? - Okay.
- What did you audition for? - Yeah, okay, okay, all right,
all right, okay. (laughs) So in June, I was traveling to Dubai. And right an hour before I
get into the car and go there, my manager is like, "Bassem,
I'm gonna send you a script. Read it, it's for Superman." It's like, oh, Superman, you know, I'm not really good in auditions.
I'm not a seasoned actor. So I was like, "Okay, I'm just
gonna do it, send the tape." I do the tape, I send
it, I go to the airport. And I think I can talk about it now, because they said they changed the script. So basically, what I found it interesting in that new script is that there is, like, a dictator in a country that
invades another country, and Superman interferes politically. That's the first time we ever see Superman
interferes politically. - Yeah.
- So basically, it was like Russia and Ukraine. But because of me, it couldn't
be Russia and Ukraine. So it had to be something
kind of, like, with a flavor. So I read the role as if as a
mixture of Trump and Mubarak. (Lex laughs) I did this mix of, like, you know? I have, like, the kind of the Middle East. - Yeah.
- But also like, kind of, like, the essence of Trump into it. I went to the airport, it's like an hour. It's like, James Gunn saw it, he loves it. What? I never had an audition that fast. I mean, I had a few roles, but
not that fast, not like that. And then I said like, well, the strike starts, like, tomorrow and we need to be on the phone. But after the strike, we cannot
talk, the SAG after strike, like, where the writers
and the actors strike. So like, well, I'm gonna
be on a plane right now. He's like, "Okay, once you land, you can have a Zoom call with James Gunn." I have a call with James Gunn. I'm a huge fan of him. The guy took, like, something like, "Guardian of the Galaxy," nobody knew about it,
made amazing trilogy. And he is, like, a really cool guy. I like what he did. And it was like, really nice. And he started to talk
to me about the movie. And you know, like, I talk to
people before casting them. So I know that everybody's
on set have a good chemistry. It was amazing. So in your mind, if you're an
actor, what does that mean? You got the part, and he
told me, "You got the part." Month goes by, strike goes
by, October 7th happens. I do Piers Morgan, one and two, and then I go to my Australian tour. My manager called me,
"Bassem, the strike was over." He's like, "You don't
have the part anymore." I was sad, very sad, but for three days. And I said like, I need to
stand up with it, khalas. I'm actually doing very
well. (speaks in Arabic) And then when I went to Chris Cuomo, after I finished the show, he told me, "Did you lose any opportunities?" And that was off record, after the show was, like, we concluded. And I said, I talked about Superman, and I found myself when I
was talking, I was angry. - Yeah.
- I was bitter, and I went home. I was like, "Why was I
angry? Why was I bitter? It wasn't meant to be. And
I'm living a good life now. I don't need to" So when I was asked again the next day in two different interviews, the BBC and another one was
along with my friend Dino, I said the story in a different way. I said, "I don't have any anger. As a matter of fact, maybe
if I was Warner Brothers," I didn't talk about James Gunn,
I thought it was the studio. "If I was Warner Brothers
and I'm a Muslim, I wouldn't have, like, a Zionist or a pro-Israeli in my movie. But I want to tell them that like, when I criticize Israel, I am
not a threat to you as a Jew. And we can actually have more in common." I was more of a kind of empathic. So when I said that,
the internet went crazy. And you know, James Gunn have haters because, you know, the
SnyderVerse and all of the, it's a word that I don't understand. And James Gunn, like, had
all of these attacks on him. And I was pissed of how it was handled. I wasn't angry at James
Gunn, but I thought it was. So my publicist now mentions like, "Bassem, stay calm, don't speak. It's better to, like, not talk about it." I said, okay. So there's nothing wrong about me, but I see the heat is
rising against James Gunn. And that is a guy that I
had a personal connection even through Zoom, and I
didn't like what was happening. And then he called me
and he explained to me. He says, "Bassem, you
know, I actually use like, have camera tests before
people before finally" I didn't know that. "And then we changed the
script and it was the strike. So I didn't call." And also I thought to myself,
I'm small, I'm a small actor. I'm not that important for him to call me to say we're gonna change the script. So I still think that, like, the timing sucks and everything. But then I went and I did a video explaining exactly what I'm telling you, because I didn't want to be famous for the wrong reasons.
- Yeah. - Because that will be unfair. Because already, and I was
having like interviews, "Can you comment about Superman?" I was like, "Guys, that's it. I'm not gonna talk about it,
because this is a non-issue." And when I talked to James on the phone, I felt how sincere he was. So I didn't want someone
to, because of me, will have that kind of attack, because I know what it means
to be on the other side of that kind of attack. It's terrible, and it ruins
your life and it ruins your day. And nobody deserves to be doing that. And I don't wanna be the reason for someone else to go through that pain. - And you also said that
you don't wanna be a victim. - Yeah, I don't want
to be. I'm doing great. I'm selling out everywhere. I'm having a wonderful,
loyal audiences coming to me. Why I would be angry about
the role of a Superman? Yes, it's great to be
in the superhero movies, but so what, you know? - Wait, you know,
there's a wisdom in that. Even if you weren't doing great, that's a choice a lot
of people can come to, which is like, do I
play victim here or not? - It's greed, it's greed. They want more attention. They want to be more into the thing. They want more and more, and there's so much to go around to be enough for all of us. But it is greed. It is ego, ego, ego, ego. I need to be in the center,
I need to be victimized. I need people feel sorry
for me and love me. And it is not the right way. It is not, because it is fake. It is fake, it's made up. And I did not victimize
myself when I left for Egypt. I mean, now, I speak about it now. But in that dark times, I
was detained in airports. I didn't have my American passport yet. I was still traveling
with my Egyptian passport, and I was detained in an Arab airport. And I was going to be
delivered to the Egyptians. I had shows when I was still starting, I had hecklers being sent to
me by the Egyptian embassy and Egyptian consulate
in New York and in London to curse me and to take videos of that and then send it to
state-run media in Egypt. And I didn't speak about that, because I felt that, like,
if I speak about that, I feel about like, what
was going on to me, I would be victimizing myself. It's like, if I'm gonna be good, I'm gonna good, because of what I do, not because of what people's perception of what I'm going through. - Yeah, and that becomes a slippery slope. And somehow victimizing yourself- - Goes to more victimizing.
- Yeah. - And then you cannot leave that habit. You can only exist and thrive
if people feel sorry for you. - Yeah, I mean, Israel
and Palestine currently both have that temptation. - I would always push back
when you do the comparison, because one of them is not
really in the same kind of power. I mean, yeah.
- For sure, for sure. - So like, do you get the- - I mean, it is very easy to say why Palestinian will victimize themselves. But Israel, with all
of that military might, man, it's too much. What Israel is doing is that they're victimizing the Jewish experience. And I don't think it is
fair for a lot of Jews. I don't think that they
should use the Holocaust and the persecution that happened to Jewish people all through history in order to push an
equally oppressive agenda. That is not fair, and it's not good for
the Jewish people living. And it is basically a disrespect to the memory of the Holocaust. I told you I wanna make a movie
about the Holocaust, I do. Because what happened was that kind of engineered torture
should never happen again. And it should not be happening now. - So to you, what Israel
is doing is leading to more antisemitism in the world? - A 100%, and I think, and I know, can I be a conspiracy
theorist for a second? - Please, the earth is
flat, we all know this. - A part of me thinking maybe they're doing that intentionally, because if there's a rise
of antisemitism in Jews, there will always like points,
like, see, they hate us, so we can do whatever we want. Because you see, if we let go
of our might and our strength, we're gonna go back to
the concentration camps, because you see how the word hates you. - And again, when you say
they are people in power. - Yeah, oh, yeah, absolutely. Listen, it's always the people in power. I believe that humans
are easily corruptible and easily repairable, but the corrupted part is much easier. But people could change, but power, people in power are very dangerous. Very, very dangerous. Especially if you have religion,
which is power by itself. Military might, political
support, and money. Dude, that's a very, very,
very dangerous recipe. - You know, all that said, I do believe in the
power of the little guy, the individual to overthrow
the government, you know? I don't know if you heard, but the Arab Spring
will, you know, happens. Just among friends.
- We are Americans, right? - Yes.
- We're Americans. - Yeah, allegedly.
- We're Americans. (both laugh) - How funny is that? Like, just given our two backgrounds, we're Americans.
- We're Americans. We're Americans. It's like... (both laugh) We're Americans. There's one thing about, like, the power of the little guy
that I am very sad about. Because you see, I love
America by the way. I consider it my new home. And I want my kids to grow up here. I am very grateful for the opportunity that I have in the United States. And I criticize the
United States politics, and I criticize it out of love, the same way that I was criticizing what's happening with Egypt out of love. What is worrying for me is how the power of the little man is diminishing. It doesn't matter now who
do you vote into power, they will not listen to you. They would listen to the people
who paid them to be there. And it is very concerning, because I can see the
American democracies turning, not even slowly, very
rapidly into an oligarchy. If I'm sure that all of
the millions of people who are voting, they
don't vote for the NRA. They don't vote for APAC. They don't vote for the
pharmaceutical companies. They don't for vote for the
military industry complex. And yet, the people in
power, they come in, they take your vote and my vote, and they're loyal to
those people, not to us. And it is very, very, very
concerning, very concerning. And this is the danger
of the American policies, or American politics and
American democracies. It is dangerous because
basically the vote becomes just like a ceremony, that
someone with the more, like, funding will get to power, and then he is not loyal to you. - So the fire, I mean, we are in Texas. Everybody's armed to the teeth here. - Yeah, but like, what are these arms gonna
do in front of tanks? - Well, you said the American military is unique in this way. - I know, but for now. - For now, the tanks are, first of all, I believe
Russia has more tanks than the United States
tanks, I don't know. You know, I'm not an expert in military strategic deployment of arms, but the United States uses
different kinds of weapons. - They have drones and
they have the lasers, and they're sitting
comfortably behind the screens. It's kind of, like, it
turns like, a big Xbox game. - Yeah, and they sell a lot
of those things to everybody. - It's crazy because the defense budget is 68% of American military. It's like, almost $850 billion each year. And most of that weapons
we don't even need it. - Yeah.
- We just do it because of the contracts. There was, like, an incredible 60 minutes, I'm sure that you saw it. The one about, like, the
gouging of the prices of the Department of Defense. It was one of the most fascinating things that I've ever seen. They said like, a valve, a safety oil valve that
used to be sold for $329. Now it is sold for $9,000. Why? Because there's only
five weapon companies, and they can control the prices. And in 2006, the whole Apache fleet of the American army in Iraq was grounded, because there is one valve
that they were, like, gouging the price and
didn't wanna give them. The stinger missile, that's
just like, the missile, the one that you carry, and then it's like the anti-aircraft, it used to be sold for $25,000. Now it's sold for $400,000. And nobody is doing that, you know why? Because the DoD has fired 130,000 people, including engineers and negotiators. So now in order to cut expenses, now we're paying more money. And the thing is, we do
not have a say in this. We do not have a say in how my tax money and your tax money is being spent. Because I'm sure you don't want your money to be sent to Israel like that. I'm sure, even if you're Jewish, I'm sure. I'm sure that, like, I don't want my money to be given to some Muslim countries who kill other Muslims, I'm sure. But it is not, here's the thing, what kind of power do we
have other than speaking? So what is left for us is free speech. And now when you speak,
they call you anti-Semitic. You see why I'm angry? (laughs) - But still, I mean, America's
holding pretty strong despite the criticisms
on the free speech front. But if you look at the
freedom of the press, freedom of the speech index,
America is not at the top. - It is not, and this is why, for example, it is very disheartening for me to see that the Western media, Western press, that used to be the beacon of freedom are now using as mouthpieces. And it is funny how the New York Times, Nixon got angry in the
New York Times in 1971 when they found leaks about him lying about the Vietnam War since the beginning. And now, he hired the plumbers, you know, the special units in orders
to go in and find the leaks. This was Watergate basically, because he was angry
to see who leaked that, instead of fixing the problem. Now the New York Times
have published this story about the rape that was a hoax, that was written by Anat Schwartz, who someone who have no experience. And now when it was leaked, instead of them correcting
themselves, they went in and they had their own
investigation to see who leaked. The New York Times in
2003 became the mouthpiece of George W. Bush of the WMD. And now, as an American, I
see that the New York Times is becoming a mouthpiece
of a foreign country. Why do you do that? - One of the things
that's really difficult to know is where to find the truth. It does seem that both
sides use propaganda and both sides lie a lot. - Both sides as in? - Both Israel and Palestine,
pro-Palestine and pro-Israel. There's a lot of lies. - I know, but... - [Lex] I think you're- - It's a lot of inequality, man. There is like a lot of
people on the internet, but like, who have the
mainstream media siding with? - Yeah, but you know,
thanks to social media- - Yes, thank God for social media, because now it's
individuals, they're people. - Yes.
- They're people. You're comparing BBC, New York Times, Washington Post, World Street Journal with just people with a TikTok account. - Yeah, who has more power in your view? - Now, it is actually
very, very fascinating to see the little man having
that power over the media. - Yeah, in fact, disproportionately so, like, this is my problem. - But you cannot call people
with TikTok propagandists while people being paid
to give you the news and they deliberately lie to you. - Yes, I can, they're both propagandists. - Well, okay, yes, yes. But like, the mechanism and
the intentions are different, because here's the thing. - I'd rather have the TikTok guy than the- - Like, the TikTok guy is
a TikTok guy, all right? But if you have the New
York Times being exposed to be lying and then they
get this, like, UN report, which is, like, a disgrace. And you just put the title
and you don't talk about it. Like, I'm fine with CNN and Jake Tapper and all of those people, like, spreading the rape allegations for years. I don't even want them to refute them. I want them to bring the Israeli reports saying that it didn't happen. The Israeli media themselves,
they didn't even bother. Not once, is that balanced? That's not.
- Yeah. - So that's why people in TikTok, and because they have to take
matters in their own hand. - Yeah, but the problem
with the people in TikTok is the drug, the dopamine rush
of getting a lot of likes. So instead of talking about
the death of civilians, they'll talk about beheaded babies or the equivalent of.
- Yeah, yeah. - They're going to
actually make up stories, because the made up stories
are going to be more viral. And so now we're just in this
scene, this muck of lies. - And there's a lot of people who actually expose those lies on TikTok. So you have both.
- Sure. - You have both. And it's the kind of, like, the democracy of the social media as we always call it. But if you have the state-run media, that is the legacy media, CNN, BBC, New York Times, Fox
News, all of those people, and they are, like, spreading lies, and they're not even doing
their journalistic job in order to at least bring the other side. - Yeah.
- That's problematic. - And that's worse, you're
supposed to be journalists. - Yes, it's supposed
to be reports, reports. - Yeah.
- You know, report? - Yeah, but, you know, I see that this is like a catalyst, an inspiration for the citizen
journalists to rise up. - This is what you're doing. - Oh, this? Yeah. - This is what you're doing. No, this is what you're doing, because you go into the deep dive. - Yeah.
- This is, like, a no filter thing, there's no spin. - The long form, the long
form is gonna save us. (Bassem laughs) - I see why you hate the TikToks, like, a dopamine rush. - Stupid TikTok, five hours later- - I saw the resentment
in your face. (laughs) - I can't look away. - Like, those 30 seconds,
I do four hours. (laughs) - I mean, both have a place. Both are exciting and,
you know, but I can't, it is very dangerous. Like, you can't look away.
- Yeah. - And I almost never,
maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I almost never feel better ever after having used TikTok. - Makes two of us, I
can't, I cannot, I cannot. I have a team, by the way, I give my password to, like, a team. I don't even go there, because I went, I once, in a
dark night, very late at night, I went to TikTok and
it was like, two hours. What?
- Yeah. - What? I said, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, this is dangerous. I'm really, like, an
Instagram and Facebook guy. I don't need that. - Well, even there- - And I barely get out of Twitter. I mean, like X, I don't, I can't. X is a cesspool. X, it's just, like, the
concentrated hate in X is too much. It's too much, I can't. - [Lex] So, you don't check it at all? Or you try not to check it at all? It is very intense. - I don't, I don't, I don't at all. I can't, I can't.
- Yeah. - I just like, I post something and I run. (both laugh) - Post and ghost. So you're doing comedy here in
the United States right now? - Yes. - Joe Rogan has the Comedy Mothership, which is an incredible club. Have you considered doing that club? - I would love to.
- Do you know Joe? - Of course, who doesn't know Joe? - I feel like it's a small
world of comedy. That's why I- - No, I think, like, Joe's story was like, what he did and stuff
that he did in the UFC and his podcast, and it's very impressive. The fact that he's there and he's bringing all of those people, whether they're in comedy or
his podcast is very impressive. And this is what is
the media is all about, what is, like, the internet is all about, to give you the experiences of stuff that you might never experience. And that is very important. I mean, you do it with people with, like, you go into their brains. He goes take people and
they take their experiences and their lives and their stories. It's very interesting. And this is the beauty of that art form, because you have all of these experiences at the tips of your hands. And it is there for you
to learn from, you know? And what he's doing, like,
and when he moved to Texas and we did the Comedy Mothership, anybody who would, like,
push comedy forward, that is the most difficult art
form and the most demanding. And the fact that you do that, and he might not even be
making money out of it, but he doing that because of
his passion, that is enough. - Yeah, he really believes
in creating this, like, place where comedians
could be really free. And one of the cool things
about the Comedy Mothership is, like, comedian is king there. - Yeah.
- Like, you have to bow down to the-
- Because you know, the comedian who came there
came after, like, eating shit. Dying out there.
- Yeah, eating shit. Everywhere else.
- If you fit, you are, basically, you're a saint. (laughs) - I have eaten shit for many years. - Now I'm gonna give you shit. (laughs) - Ah, it's great. You already told me what
you think about the state of politics in the United States. But now, tell me what you really think. (Bassem laughs) What do you think of the
choice of Trump versus Biden? How did we end up here?
- I don't know, man. I mean, like, the fact that like, you have two people over the age of 90. - Yeah.
- It is- - I think it's over 100,
but that's all right. - All combined, like, a 170. It is so sad. It is so sad that this is what
we can produce as a society. Like, a demagogue and a sleepy Joe. He's not there, man. He's gone, he's gone. I mean, he could, you know, like, when old people could be
like a danger for themselves? He's a danger for the whole world. I mean, like, if an old person would die who would like, you know,
have, like, a hip replacement, we can need them at, like, a new planet because of one decision. But it's not just that, it's not that. When I came here, listen, I'm a Democrat. I always like, and I told you, like, I vote for Bernie Sanders. I supported him, like, 2016,
but I couldn't vote then. And of course, a huge fan of Obama. And one of my methodology is like, he's the first Muslim president. It's like, but he killed Muslims. Like, ah, that's things Muslims do. But anyways. (both laugh) - I love that line. - I think the whole
idea, like, my shock is, I told you about, like, what Biden said about like, I'm a Zionist. Okay, we are a Zionist. But then like Jews are not safe
anywhere other than Israel. It's like, dude, what
the hell are you saying? And if you don't care about me and you don't care about my misery, why would I care about you
winning or losing, you know? And I have a joke that
I told people, like, why would even Biden listen to us? He just raised $145 million in California alone
from pro-Israeli groups. I mean, what can we Arabs working in the vape business do to him? (both laugh) It's like, we cannot compete with that. I mean, like practically, I
mean, it's like, life is unfair. The guy is a politician. He needs bills to pay. He needs a campaign to
run, he needs money. He will go to the people
who will give him money. Joe Biden is the highest paid politician from Israeli lobbyists,
$4.6 million over the years. - Yeah, but I also
believe in great leaders that go against all of that. But unfortunately, you know? - Bernie Sanders was like that. - Bernie Sanders, yes. But also age, I don't wanna be ageist. - Of course, of course, no, no. - But even with like,
'cause I remember listening to Bernie Sanders 20 years
ago on Thom Hartmann show. And I don't wanna say
anything against Bernie, but like, he was sharper then. - Of course.
- There's a thing with age where-
- Yeah, of course, no, I think I'm a huge fan about,
like, putting the limits on your working years, because
you don't wanna have, like, a Mitch McConnell moment every now, because now the whole thing
got like, what is this? Is this not like a hospice care home? It is unfair, it is unfair. And that the whole idea that you have, like, you have a limit for the president, but you don't have limit for congress people and senators. What do you mean? This is basically, you can go in and be in governance forever. And you know, the longer that you can get, the more corrupt you'll get. - Yes, that's the thing. - And that is very
concerning for Americans. - Everybody, everybody
becomes corrupt after. - Yeah.
- I mean, that's why two terms is a good limit. - For Everybody.
- Yeah. And you know, maybe half a
term for Egyptian leaders. - Well, you know, our half
term is 15 years. (laughs) - Quarter term. (Bassem laughs) You should come back and
run for office there. - Oh, my God, no, no. There's a curse in Egyptian presidency. Nobody comes there like,
either all dead or in jail. - Yeah. - It's not the most appealing job. - They might make a statue of you though. Make you look good. - After my death. (laughs) I look very good dead in the statue. - Yeah, when you look at
what happened when Navalny, since you kind of really
thought about this in Egypt, what happened with Navalny in Russia? What do you think about that? - Yeah, but what happened
with Navalny in Russia is not something new in Russia. I mean, Putin have,
like, this whole history of poisoning and killing people. And it's kind of, like, pretty much, I would have to cite credit to Putin. He's, like, bringing us the essence of the dark ages, the middle ages. It's like, you know, like,
basically Putin is like, is the living example of what happens if "Game of Thrones" was reality. It's like death by poison. Like, I'll blow up a plane. It's like, mysteriously
disappears. (laughs) It is very dark, but it's like, wow! It's a television show. - Maybe that's what attracts
us to that part of the world is that it's so much on display, this game of power, of geopolitics. - Yeah.
- Of war. - No, but the same happens in the West, but behind closed doors. - Yes.
- It's not that open. - Not pronounced.
- It's not that pronounced. You know, it's like, oops, Epstein. - Yeah, yeah. (Bassem laughs) - It's like, oh! I think because of the
West is more advanced, like in movies and cinemas,
we kind of direct it better. - Yeah.
- I think the outcome's like, the way that you kind
of, like, set the scene, it's like, hm, scene and scene. - That's why people are about
like landing on the moon. They're like, ah!
- Yeah! (both laugh) - I get it, but you know,
we haven't gone back. - The earth is flat, huh, maybe? - All right, if we zoom out, do you think there will
always be war in world? - Yeah.
- Always be suffering, yes? - Yeah, but here's the thing,
I don't think for long. I don't think that will happen further. - Wait a minute. - Yeah.
- Yeah? - Because here's the thing. Humanity is destined to
have war, it will have war. But something happened
in the last 50 years. Now we have much more lethal weapons. The problem is at the beginning, it's like swords against
swords, horses, cavalier, like, cannons, catapults, mini missiles. But now, we're like, you know,
like, a press of a button, you can annihilate the whole planet. - Yeah.
- And this is the problem. Wars will always continue. The problem is when is
gonna be the tipping point where we are actually
going to destroy ourselves. And it is so easy now
to destroy ourselves. The amount of weapons and the quality of weapons that we have, it is designed to kill more
effectively, it is crazy. It's like, we can create our
own destruction on ourself. And I think we're not
that far away from it. - Just looking at nuclear weapons, the fascinating thing
about nuclear weapons is I've gotten to learn recently just how few people are involved
in a full on nuclear war that kills, basically, kills everybody. - Yeah.
- Well, three plus billion people right away. - And the consequences of the nuclear winter, it's unlivable. - But all it takes is, I
mean, one president can do it. So it could be even a false
alarm, misunderstanding. - Like, what happened in
the Cuba Missile Crisis. - But again, and now there's
more nations are prepared and ready to launch.
- Yeah. - I don't know.
- And you have a media and a 24 hours kind of, like, thing that makes you, like,
at edge the whole time. - Oh, that's dark.
- That's crazy. - There's a dark perspective on this where there's certain members of the media that would kind of enjoy the prospect of nuclear war, like, a little bit. Just let's get us close to it as possible. - You have another factor that will contribute to that. Religion. And you remember how,
like, the radical Islamists talk about, like, the
end of time and whatever, but like, most of the Islamic
don't have that much power. Problem is with Christian
Zionists now being on the top of the world with America. They have been pushing
for that kind of conflict to kind of escalate, escalate. Listen to Sarah Palin, it's
like, God wants us here. Like, Karl Rove, all of the new cons. The dispensationalist, Reagan. There's an incredible book called, like, "Forcing the Hands of God." Oh, beautiful book. I read this like, it's published 1998, but it still matters today. The whole idea about like, especially the Zionist Christians who love Israel, but they hate the Jews. They're anti-Semite, but they love Israel because of its role. This is all basically formed because of the interpretation
of the Bible of Scofield and how they talk about the
end of time, the Armageddon, and then late great planet Earth, and then left behind
serious and all of that. It's all about like, we
are heading to Armageddon. And the problem is, there are people that believe that the end of time. And then we have the Christians that believe in the end of time. And then you have Israel happy that those people are using
it for the end of time. And then the whole idea about
them pushing as many weapons and troops and people in the Middle East to be there for the nuclear holocaust. And John Hagee, one of the
pastors talk about that, about the brimstones. And it's not gonna be a nuclear holocaust. All that people, it's crazy how people are so despising life that
they are wanting death. So now, you all would
have these revelations, but these revelations mean nothing if you don't have an effective weapon in order to make it happen. And this is the crazy thing. And I'm worried that the end
it's going to be by someone that wants to meet God
a little bit earlier. - Somebody who's really in a hurry. Well, I have good news for you. Maybe we'll become a
multiplanetary species. - Maybe Elon Musk will lead us, lead the way.
- To get out in space. - Maybe he's one of them,
he's a secret lizard. - I asked you offline to not
mention the lizard people. (Bassem laughs) - There's like a whole people that believe in the
lizard people, it's crazy. I actually have to be honest, I haven't fully looked into lizard people. I probably should.
- You should. - Yeah, well, maybe I'm
afraid of the truth. (Bassem laughs) (Bassem humming) (both laugh) - Removing my face now. - I mean, so let's say you're wrong about the end of the world. - I hope so.
- And it all turns out great and humanity flourishes. Why would that happen? What gives you hope for that
trajectory for humanity? - Younger people, the people of TikTok that you don't like. (laughs) Yeah, there is a lot of,
like, bullshit there. - You know, after you saying this, people will just keep
sending you TikTok videos, these younger people?
- These younger people. (both laugh) - This woman showing
her boobs? That woman? - That's gonna save us? (Bassem laughs) - All right, bosom. Thank you. - No, like, I think
there is a wealth of it. You know, remember like,
the joke that said like, we thought that, like,
when we have internet, we gonna have like, be more,
you know, more informed. And now, we're watching twerking
videos, and that is true. But on the other side, the fact that you have availability of information. I'm learning a lot, and there's people who are using that platform for that. It's not the majority because, you know, it's not very interesting and exciting. But I think there might be a tipping point where there's enough
people that would be aware and maybe they would
collectively do something in order to bring back the
power to the small man. And maybe it sounds very
naive, but we don't know. We don't know, because you've already seen the legacy media and the
legacy politicians shaking in the past few months. - [Lex] They're getting nervous. - They're getting nervous, because people are calling them out. And those people were, like,
hiding behind their desk, behind in their offices and not like, not holding a vouch for that, but, like, people now
are calling them out. And it is not gonna happen,
like, this year or next year. But I think it's something. - What advice would you
give to those young folks? - I will never give
advice to those people. (both laugh) - Get off TikTok. - I will never because, like, their input is different than mine. - Yeah.
- But like, there's one thing I
learned when people saw me. Did the revolution fail in Egypt? Did people that the people are, it's like, listen, the revolution is not an event. It's not like, hey, we go
in, we topple the government. It's not a revolution. A revolution is a process,
it's a very long process. And maybe that process, I mean, as much as we don't like what
happened in the Arab world, but the people there, the
awareness that happened and the discussions that have been opened, that you didn't even imagine would happen in the Middle East is happening. And maybe the beginning
of any, any hope of change is that people start
talking, speaking out, talking about stuff they were
not allowed to speak about. Like, for example, Israel. (laughs) - The revolution continues. - Ah, yes. - Bassem, you're a beautiful human being. It's truly a pleasure
and honor to meet you. I could just feel the
love radiating from you. I hope I get to see you perform live. I hope to get to see you many more times. Thank you for being who you are. - Thank you so much, and
I would love to invite you for my new special, the
Islamo-Nazi. (laughs) - That should be the title
of your autobiography. - Islamo-Nazi, thank you so much. - Thank you, brother. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Bassem Youssef. To support this podcast, please check out our
sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you
some words from Jon Stewart. "The press can hold its magnifying
glass up to our problems, bringing them into focus, illuminating issues heretofore unseen, or they can use that magnifying
glass to light ants on fire and then perhaps host a
week of shows on the sudden, unexpected, dangerous,
flaming ant epidemic." If we amplify everything, we hear nothing. Thank you for listening, and
hope to see you next time.