Javier Milei: President of Argentina - Freedom, Economics, and Corruption | Lex Fridman Podcast #453
so what is the difference between a mad man and a genius success the following is a conversation with Javier Malay the president of Argentina he is a Libertarian anarcho capitalist and Economist who campaigned with the chainsaw that symbolized his promise to slash the corrupt bureaucracy of the state he stepped into the presidency one year ago with the country on the brink of hyperinflation deepen debt and suffering from mass unemployment and poverty he took this crisis headon transforming one of Latin America's largest economies through pure free market principles in just a few months in office he already achieved Argentina's first fiscal Surplus in 16 years and not just avoided hyperinflation but brought inflation down to to its lowest in 3 years we discuss all of this in detail both the successes and the challenges his depth of knowledge of economic principles metrics and data was truly impressive and refreshing to hear from a world leader but even bigger than the economic transformation of Argentina Javier represents the universal fight against government corruption and the fight for Freedom economic freedom political freedom and freedom of speech he has has many critics many of whom are part of the corrupt establishment he's seeking to dismantle but many are simply Argentinian citizens scared of the pain his radical policies may bring at least in the short term but whether one disagrees with his methods or not no one can deny that his presidency marks one of the most ambitious attempts at economic transformation in modern history and that Javier Malay is truly a force of nature combining the rigor of Economist with a passion of a revolutionary in the fight for freedom of a Nation he loves Argentina is one of my favorite countries so I sincerely hope he succeeds this interview was conducted with the president speaking Spanish and me speaking English with an interpreter simultaneously translating we make the episode available overdubbed and subtitled in both English and Spanish thanks to our great friends at 11 Labs if you're watching on YouTube you can switch between English and Spanish by clicking the gear icon selecting audio track and then choosing language same with the captions if you're watching on X I'll post both Spanish and English versions separately if you're watching on Spotify or listening elsewhere I'll probably only post the English version this is a first time for me doing something like this in a foreign language it was challenging but Illuminating I hope to continue talking to many world leaders for two to three hours in this way including Vladimir zalinski Vladimir Putin naranda Modi and Si jingping I want to explore who they are how they think and how they hope to help their country and Humanity flourish this is Alex Freedman podcast to support it please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear friends here's jaier Malay when did you first understand the value of Freedom especially economic freedom well actually I came to understand the ideas of Freedom as an economic growth specialist back in the years of 2013 to 2014 I could see that per capita GDP Statistics over the last 2,000 years of the Christian era essentially looked like a hockey stick indicating that per capita GD P remained almost constant until around 1800 after which it accelerated sharply in the same context of that phenomenal increase in productivity and per capita GDP the population had multiplied Sevenfold over the preceding 200 years so basically in economics that means you get increasing returns and the presence of increasing returns implies the exist of monopolies concentrated structures and according to traditional neoclassical economic theory the presence of monopolies and concentrated structures is not a good thing but at the same time one could see that living standards had increased tremendously and that middle inome people ended up living far better than Emperors did in the Roman era and the population had gone from having 95% of people in extreme poverty to less than 10% and in that context the question was how it could be that something that had lifted so many people out of poverty that had improved human conditions so much could be something bad for economic theory meaning something was not right so in that context I remember that one of the people who worked on my team suggested I read an article by Murray Newton rothbart called Monopoly and competition I remember reading it like it was today and after reading it carefully I said everything I've T about Market structure in the last 20 years in courses on microeconomics is wrong this caused a very strong internal commotion in me so I called this person who used to work with me and they Rec recommended a place to buy Austrian School of Economics books and I remember I bought at least 20 or 30 books which I went to pick up one Saturday afternoon and when I visited the bookstore I was fascinated by all the stuff they had there so I went back the next day and I started calculating how much money I needed to pay for my dog's food that's my four-legged child and how much I needed to spend on the taxi fair and food and then with what I have left I spent all of it on more books and then I started to read very intensively and I remember for example the experience of reading Human Action by mises and this was a book that I didn't know about and I remember that on the following weekend I started to read this book right from the first page and I didn't stop until I finished it and that was a true revolution in my head and having the chance to read Austrian authors like rothbard misis Hayek H and jesuso or others like Juan ramono Philip buus and Walter block for example that was very inspirational and at one point I got the opportunity to read related to The Works of Alberto venas Lino and I also had the pleasure and honor to meet him and today we are actually friends so that paved the way for me to approach the ideas of freedom and another book that was a very significant influence and impact on me was the principles of political economics by manger it was truly eye openening or let's say for reading Ogen F these were things that really that really challenged all of my former thinking I had a vague idea and poor about the Austrian School the only thing I had read about the Austrian school until then had been money and time a very good book by Garrison but but now that I understand a little bit more about Austrian economics I know that it was rather poor this doesn't mean that the book isn't good but there were a whole lot of things to read that ended up being truly fascinating so from that what is now today and maybe you can talk about the evolution is your philosophy uh economics philosophy you've described yourself as anarcho capitalist Market Anarchist libertarian that's the ideal and then maybe in practice in reality You' said that you're more of a minarchist so lay it all out what's your economics philosophy today strictly speaking I am an anarco capitalist I despise the state government I despise violence let us suppose we take the definition of liberalism I usually use the definition of liberalism given by Alberto Venegas Lino which is very much in line with the definition of John Lock which essentially matches the definition by Alberto benegas Lynch Jr who said that liberalism is the unrestricted respect for the life project of others based on the principle of non-aggression and in defense of the right to life Liberty and property so I frame all of the discussions within those terms and the fact is that when you get to that notion I would dare say that you become an anaro capitalist de facto and what that describes it is an idea which represents my ideal world I mean that is the ideal world now real life poses a whole lot of restraints and some of those you can lift and those restrictions and others you can't so in real life I am a minarchist I advocate for minimizing State size I try to remove as many regulations as possible in fact that is what I used to say during my campaign and let's say that is what I'm now carrying out we have just carried out the largest structural reform in Argentine history it is a structural reform that is eight times larger than menim which had been the largest structural reform in history and we did that with 15% of the representatives and 10% of the Senators furthermore we have a deregulation Ministry where basically every day we eliminate between one and five regulations on the other hand we have 3,200 additional structural reforms pending to the point that the day we finish all these reforms we will be the freest country on the planet with the consequences they have in terms of well-being think about this when Ireland started Market reforms just over 40 years ago it was the poorest country in Europe today its GDP per capita is 50% higher than that of the United States so this um I have a current situation and what I am constantly looking for whether from my academic works and my Outreach notes and books is the world we have today that every day we are closer that every day we gain more freedom because there are some very interesting things here first I would like to quote Milton fredman there is a moment when they do an interview with Milton fredman and they ask him about liberals and then he says that there are three types of liberals there are the classical liberals where for example Adam Smith or Milton fredman himself could fit some say that Hayek could fit into that category for me hyek is a minarchist then you have the minarchist where you could clearly find in that place mises haek one could find in philosophical terms noik and basically a Rand and at one point Milton fredman based on his own son he says but if you look closely there are some who are anarchists let's say probably from my point of view the person who has been the greatest inspiration in my life is essentially Murray Newton rothbard so therefore there U there are two Dimensions one is where I want to go and the topic is where I stand so the most important thing is to try each day to advance further toward that ideal of aarco capitalism in that sense sometimes we Face strong and harsh criticism regarding that ideal Vision I think that's the Nana fallacy if you compare yourself against Paradise everything is horrible and miserable but you don't live in Paradise you live on earth basically what you need to understand is something called the state condition let's suppose uh that you don't like rectangular tables you prefer circular tables now the reality is I have only a few hours until I go and catch my flight and the table is rectangular you like a circular table around one but there isn't one what you have is a rectangular table so either we do the interview here or we just can't do it so what you do you adapt to the current conditions this is what there is now so then you have some restrictions that you can change and others that you cannot the idea is to modify all the ones that can be change in the short term and start working on those that can be modified in the medium or long term for example for example if you really like round tables perhaps the next interview we may do do at a round table we're going to try and solve it but today it's something that we couldn't possibly solve so that's basically the idea right let's say it's about understanding that some restrictions you can't change others you can and there are institutional restrictions too there are many anarco capitalists who are dedicated to criticizing and Incredibly they do so with more violence towards liberals and many of them actually criticize me which truly make no sense because it is precisely the Nirvana fallacy but the reality is that uh look in Argentina for example the most popular sport is soccer when you go to watch an Argentina mat it is beautiful the stands are full and they're all painted with sky blue and white colors there is a lot of Joy people sing songs that are very fun that are very distinctive very it's very much part of Argentine folklore so to speak but you see that beautiful show is external that is to say it does not determine the outcome you place the ball in the middle of the field and no matter how much people shout the ball doesn't move the one who who moves the ball and scores the goals is Messi so what do I mean if you don't get involved and don't get into it no you don't do anything so I mean what do I know is that there are many liberals Libertarians and anacal capitalists who are really useless because all they do is criticize let's say those of us who want to lead the world toward the ideas of freedom and what they don't realize is that power is a zero some game and if we don't have it then the left will have it therefore if you level your harshest criticism at those in your own ranks you end up being subservient to socialism probably and also for instance you have cases of strong hypocrisy let's say I have seen cases of aorists I mean it's the anarcho capitalists who criticize rothbart because he said that you have to get into politics otherwise the Socialists will advance and it's interesting because some of them I have seen them criticizing proposing agorism and I remember one of them one day uh the police showed up and honestly he was peeing himself so I mean it's very easy to criticize propose and suggest but if he was truly such an Agonist he should have been willing to endure going to jail however when it was time to face the consequences of the idea he was promoting he froze wet his pants and ended up let's say accepting all the restrictions because clearly it was better to be out of jail than in jail but in doing so he sold out his ideas so it seems to me that no not taking into account the restrictions of the situation only serves to be functional to socialism because all it does is strike against one's own so you became president 11 months ago can you again describe some of the actions you took for example you cut half the number of government Ministries layoffs removed controls it'll be interesting to lay out the first steps and what's next if you allow me I will first give you a description of the situation we received and based on that I will tell you each of the things we did when uh we first took office basically what we found was that in the first week of December inflation was rising at a rate of 1% per day which means 3700% annually in the first half of December it had accelerated to 7,5% annually when you look at wholesale inflation in December of last year it was 54% which if annualized would equate to an inflation rate of 177,000 per year and in addition Argentina for the previous 10 years had not been growing with a drop in GDP per capita of approximately 15% and the reality was that nearly 50% were living in poverty now later I will get deeper into that discussion and the reality is that we had a fiscal deficit which amounted to 15% of GDP Five Points were in the treasury 10 points were in the central bank which was endogenous monetary issuance and the reality is that we also had interest bearing liabilities at the Central Bank equivalent to four monetary bases maturing in one day meaning we could have quintupled the amount of money in one day we had peso denominated maturities amounting to the equivalent of $90 billion the central bank had negative net currency foreign reserves minus $12 billion we had commercial debts in the Central Bank equivalent to $50 billion there were company dividends held back amounting to $10 billion therefore if we if we had instantly opened up you see I say we are liberal Libertarians we are not liberal fools that's what some Anarchist liberals suggested meaning that we basically open everything on the first day so in that in that context of course if we had done that we would have encountered hyperinflation therefore that would have led to the number of poor people being around 95% and probably and by December the peronist party would have organized supermarkets lootings and would have done all sorts of things and would have probably been ousted and by the first part of the year the peronist would have gone back to office so to us it was crucial to end fiscal deficit one of the things we promised during the campaign had been to reduce the number of Ministries and indeed we reduced to less than half the number of Ministries because we went to nine Ministries today we have eight we have also laid off a large number of civil employees today I can say that we've already dismissed about 50,000 of them and we we practically don't renew any contracts unless the positions are absolutely necessary at the same time we have stopped Public Works and we have eliminated discretionary transfers to the provinces we have also diluted public sector wages also we have eliminated economic subsidies by restoring utility rates to the right levels and well well and in that let's say in this context we achieved fiscal balance as far as the treasury is concerned this is very important because in the last 123 years Argentina had a deficit for 113 of them and in the 10 years it did not have a deficit because it was not paying the debt so that was absolutely false and they told us it would be impossible to do that we had planned to do so within a year and they said it wasn't possible to adjust by more than one percentage point and we achieved fiscal balance in the month of January that is the first month of administration at the same time we also cut Social plans linked to intermediation this is very important because we knew we were going to make a very tough adjustment and we knew that this was going to have a c in Social terms and we knew that we had to offer support during the first month I mean the first quarter and second quarter in office one of the things we did was to eliminate what are known as poverty managers that is intermediaries basically people have a card through which they receive assistance but it happens that they had to provide a counter service and that counter service was verified by a group called The Picos so in that context when they were going to sign the counter service took away half of the money so by removing that payoff they stopped extorting them sto stealing their money and with the same amount of money they receive double the resources and of course we also provided an additional boost so let's say that this is related to the five adjustment points in the treasury now what happens as we began to achieve fiscal balance and no longer needed to issue money to finance ourselves and as we also met interest payments and some Capital repayments One of the things that happened is that the debt Market began to be recreated so we were able to take debt out of the Central Bank and transfer it to the treasury where it should have always been and that meant an adjustment of approximately 10% of GDP everyone said this would be impossible and couldn't be fixed essentially what we did was Implement a fiscal adjustment at the central bank amounting to 10% of GDP so if you ask me it's clear that we have not only made the biggest fiscal adjustment in the history of humanity because we made a fiscal adjustment of 15 points of the GDP but also most of that went back to the people as less sorage as a lower inflation rate it's true that we temporarily raised the country tax but we lowered it in September and now in December we're going to eliminate it today for example we also announced that in December we are eliminating import taxes in fact in that in that regard what you have is that we return to the people 13 and a half points of GDP because the real tax burden is the size of the state so while back in December we were discussing hyperinflation today we are discussing 30-year loans in other words all those resources that the national government used to take are now back in the private sector and that's what has allowed it to be very Dynamic and this has two very strong impacts the first one is that if you look at wholesale inflation it went down from 54% to 2% so it went down by 27 times it was divided into 27 so we had inflation at a rate of 177,000 annually and it's now close to about 28% a year but it's not only that you could consider consumer inflation the latest consumer inflation rate was 2.7% now it happens that we essentially due to a matter that is related to the central bank's balance sheets and also due to the debt stocks we still have controls in place and we are eliminating restrictions day by day now the interesting thing is that we have a 2% monthly devaluation standard and there's International inflation of course which means that you then have to subtract two and A2 points from the inflation observed by the consumer this indicates that inflation in Argentina the true inflation not the induced one but the actual monetary inflation is 0.2% per month at 0.2% per month this equates to 2.4% annually what I'm saying is the original discussion was about whether inflation could reach 177,000 per. now we are bringing inflation down to levels of 2.5% annually and that is amazing and we achiev this by considering a number of factors the first one is that we did not experience a previous hyperinflation which would have simplified the process of implementing a stabilization program typically when hyperinflation occurs monetary assets are diluted leading to a natural restoration of demand and besides we did not resort to any expropriation for example before the convertibility plan which was the most successful program in Argentina's history Argentina experienced two instances of hyperinflation during alam's Administration inflation reached 5,000% and under menim it was 1,200% additionally there was the bonex plan under which debt was exchanged on a compulsory basis in other words what we did instead was clean up the central bank balance sheet so with that we we cleaned up the central bank's balance sheet we cleared a loss of $45 billion all voluntarily and the most amazing thing is that we did it in just 6 months and at the same time we have not controlled prices nor have we fixed the exchange rate and this is very important all previous stabilization programs in an effort to show quick results used to do this what they would do is before announcing the plan they would adjust the rates and once the rates were adjusted they would launch the plan but in our case we couldn't afford that luxury so we had to implement it on the go and also over the past few months that is to say companies brought in rates that covered only about 10% whereas today they cover 80% so you get the picture just imagine the adjustment we are making and in that sense it is also incredible what we have achieved because if we were to work with the inflation we have in our country today considering the exchange rate situation the figures are even better than during the convertibility program which was the most successful economic program in Argentina's history and in fact there is an article called passing the buck which is by sherard De laera botsi and irigoin that demonstrates that menem's first government was the best government in history and basically it argues two things in the success of the stabilization of the convertibility program so if you take a closer look when you examine it carefully when you account for all these factors our disinflation process is actually much more genuine and not only that it's also much deeper we restored freedoms to argentinians while simultaneously implementing a structural reform eight times larger and we accomplished this with only with 15% % of the representatives 10% of the Senators and within the first 6 months of government in other words our deregulation agenda continues daily and we still have 3,200 structural reforms pending this will ultimately make Argentina the freest country in the world moreover to have a sense of magnitude the reforms that we already have made with the executive order 7023 and with the basis law we have actually jumped 90 places in terms of economic freedom what this means is that today Argentina has institutions similar to those of Germany France Italy and we obviously want this to continue and let's say we are going to surpass no doubt the levels of economic freedom that Ireland reached in its best moment and not only that we're going to exceed the levels of economic freedom of Australia New Zealand and Switzerland we are undoubtedly going to be the free EST country in the world and this and this means that thanks to what we've done today we are on a path that allows us to multiply our per capita GDP by 2.5 times when you apply the relevant correction and this of course is something very interesting because it implies a huge increase in well-being and furthermore today the Argentinian economy is already strongly and amazingly covering and we can say analysts hypothesis were suggesting that next year we would be growing between 5 and 6% today JP Morgan has now corrected or let's say revised the projections upwards and besides when we normalized the price situation the true poverty rate came up and it was 57% in January today it is at 46% meaning we lowered poverty by 11 percentage points let's say I mean it seems truly like a miracle and not only that but actually not a single job was lost in the process when it comes to all of this inflation reduction process people said that our economy and economic activity would collapse and actually when you look at the deseasonalized data you see that in August there was a recovery that took us back to December levels to December levels that means that in the year we made the largest fiscal adjustment in the history of humanity we will end up with less inflation fewer poor people better real wages and additionally a GDP higher than what we started with and if you look at it in dollars I can assure you that the numbers are phenomenal because basically today the dollar is below the levels we had when we took office so the reality is that in all of this when you take my popularity level and the government's acceptance levels today they are above the moment we assumed office if you know that the moment of Maximum popularity is when you take office therefore this means that far from resting on our Laurels with this we're going for more reforms we're going to deepen the reforms and I tell you we won't stop until Argentina is the freest country in the world furthermore a re recent work by an Argentinian Economist named Juan Pablo nicolini was presented at the central bank's monetary meetings and he works at the Federal Reserve and it's interesting because he shows that only on the basis of what we have done in fiscal matters it ensures that in the span of 10 years we can double the GDP per capita meaning that Argentina could grow at rates of 7% annually which is very much very much and that has strong consequences in terms of improving quality of life reducing poverty reducing indigence therefore if during the worst moment our image didn't suffer and we stayed strong in our ideas now that everything is working much better why should we change on the contrary we are ready to redouble the BET to redouble our efforts because we've done things that no one else has done I will give you an example there's something that seems trivial but there's What's called the single Paper ballot Argentina used to vote with huge ballots which were very above all very costly and that reform it never let's say it wasn't done because it always harmed the ruling party so everyone talked about going to the single Paper ballot but no one did it when they were in power they didn't want to implement it because they preferred to commit fraud or use some kind of trickery to avoid applying that rule that makes the election more competitive well what's interesting we sent that law and it was approved what's more now we are finishing with the open simultaneous and mandatory primaries because it was a mechanism by which politics was also stealing we are eliminating the financing of political parties if you look we have reduced the fiscal pressure by 15 points to the argentinians we are restoring freedoms with a deep set of structural and Regulatory reforms that is I think that any sensible liberal could perceive we are already delivering a wonderful government in fact it's the best government in the history of Argentina if the best had been that of menim we've already outpaced him maybe you can explain to me the metrics of poverty and unemployment as you said unemployment went down real unemployment went down real poverty went down but even that aside what have been the most painful impacts of these radical reforms and how many of them are required in the short term term to have a big positive impact in the long term let's take it step by step all right that is we in fact we started to do things right therefore we did not create poverty the poverty was an inherited poverty the point is that what we did was to reveal it I'll try to explain it with an example that I think clarifies what's happening in Argentina arent Ina was an economy that had a total price controls it had a fiscal deficit which was financed through money printing just for you to give you an idea in the last year Argentina financed 13 points of the gross domestic product with money printing in other words a real disaster so that situation provoke this artificially demand and puts pressure on prices the issue is that price controls are applied additionally over the prices that they enter the price index with which inflation was I'm not saying they were lying about it it was distorted and since Argentina measures poverty and indigence by income line then what happens that distorted the true levels of poverty of course but that's not the only effect I mean let's say the real poverty levels were higher quite a bit higher than those shown by the previous government which showed them at 41% and also did so on a six-monthly basis so if you let's say have a growing Trend they are actually leaving you a bomb and you don't see it because let's say basically the indicator was measured with a delayed form but not only that imagine that you are also given you are in the middle of an island alone and they give you 1 million dollars what can you do with that you cannot do anything because you cannot buy anything it's the same as if someone tells you that the price of glasses is $10 but when you want to buy it it's not available actually there's a joke told by an Argentinian Professor named Juan car de Pablo who says that a man goes to a Bazar and asks for a vas then he says to him well I want that vas how much would you charge me then he says $5,000 oh okay $5,000 but why $5,000 if across the street it's 1,000 he says well go buy it across the street for a th000 ah there's none for a th000 well then here when there's more it'll also cost a th000 in other words prices at which they are available so so what happens when you were faced with that situation the supermarket shelves were empty so what was the point of having a price at which you couldn't buy anything you left those prices the shelves were empty so the statistics showed that you were much better but the reality is you couldn't buy anything you couldn't make it happen so if you left the situation as it was people were going to starve because they couldn't buy anything yes they had a certain amount of money that could supposedly buy certain Goods but those goods were not available what the what is the only thing you can do to save people make the prices transparent and allow products to reappear well when you make the prices transparent you also make transparent the cost of the basic food basket and the total basic basket meaning the poverty line Sorry the indigence line and the poverty line respectively and when you do that clearly you will see a jump in poverty that brought poverty up to 57 % now Argentina found its activity floor in the month of April from that moment Argentina began to invent a cyclical recovery real wages have been growing every month above inflation therefore nominal wages are beating inflation in fact we are already at levels similar to those we had in November the same goes for pensions moreover Also let's say there is a rebound in activ due to the recovery of the stock cycle therefore this is also contributing to more and better paid jobs in fact this is so strong and evident that the wages growing the most are in the informal sector this means that poverty and extreme poverty are decreasing much faster than we imagined but not only that by eliminating inflation you remove the inflationary tax but the real burden is the fiscal deficit which was 15 points of the GDP okay we temporarily raised the country tax now we lower it but we return that to the argentinians we gave back 15 points of the GDP not only that but also when you eliminate inflation you remove the Distortion of relative prices therefore the allocation of resources is much better not only that but also with a strong fiscal adjustment we made we have reduced the country risk from 3,000 basis points to 770 today fit raised Argentina's rating to Triple C so what do I mean that translates into a lower country risk and interest rates and that generates an increase in investment also generates an increase in consumption in other words the Argentinian economy is currently in an absolutely flourishing moment and how is that sustained in the long term with structural reforms which we Implement daily deregulating the economy and introducing new laws that free argentinians from the from the many oppressive measures that have burdened it over the past 100 years you've spoken about the cast The corrupt political establishment so there's a lot of powerful people and groups that are against your ideas what does it take to fight when so much Powers against you look we have fought against corruption like never before in Argentina in fact when we took office for example there were about 900 roadblocks per year that is people who made a habit of blocking the streets they prevented free movement and besides they were given social plans and they were given a lot of money if you remember when I started by explaining the cuts one of the things I said was that we removed the middlemen of poverty in other words the managers of poverty those who lived by stealing from the poor well that is a huge source of corruption in fact when we did that two days later one of the most renowned and influential peteros called for a demonstration he claimed that 50,000 people would attend because he was actually expecting 100,000 so he wanted to show case it as a success and so then let's say with the decision made in human capital to cut their funding the anti- blockade protocol was also enacted where those who blocked the streets wouldn't receive welfare benefits and those who broke the law would go to jail all of that and also we were informing this through Transportation channels well in that March they expected to have 100,000 people there and actually it turned out to be 3,000 people and from that point on they didn't block the streets anymore we also evidently put an end to that corruption one of the things that also generated a lot of corruption was Public Works another thing that led to significant acts of corruption were the discretionary transfers to provinces in general these transfers were made to the provinces with accounting as obscure as possible so the national government in collusion with the governors let's say the money ended up being used for other things not only that with which we have already done many things furthermore the ministry of human capital is always filing complaints in court not in the media in court acts of corruption like never before in Argentine history not only that but also in terms of condemning corruption that is we have done for example two days ago it was condemned Christina Fernandez de Kushner got a sentence for corruption I mean due to corruption and the next day that is yesterday we took away their privileged pensions at the same time we are for example we have discovered that kirner is used disability pensions for acts of corruption for example there is a city that has more disability pensions than people in other words to give you an idea of the things being done in Argentina and also in Argentina we have restored freedom to the Judiciary we do not pressure the Judiciary and this is so true that during my government Not only was Christina Fernandez tesna convicted but also the two ter attacks carried out by Iran were condemned so if there is a government that is truly fighting against corruption it is us not only that but also with each deregulation it is a privilege that we take away either from a politician a prary company or a power group that is also very powerful no one in Argentina has ever fought against corruption the way we have in fact I will move on to something that is deeply corrupt and one of my great battles the corruption of the media in social media that is to say I remov the official advertising that's why you will see that even though we generate wonderful news every week in large quantity the media speak terribly in other words they demand to have a monopoly on the microphone that is they are entitled to insult hurt offend and they don't want anyone to bother them and they expect me not to even respond that's why a large part of Journalism in Argentina hates the X Network and that's why we the liberal Libertarians love the X Network because we can all say what we want however let's say these supposed journalists who defend freedom of expression actually what they want is to censor the ideas they don't like and of course because they are leftists because they are wokes because they can't stand the competition because if they had to fight face to face hand to hand on a Level Playing Field when it comes to ideas they would lose because they were a failure in the economic social and cultural aspects and also we must not forget that those murderers called socialist killed 150 million people so they clearly cannot fight on equal terms therefore they demand that social networks have censorship and that the truth cannot be told to them because when you tell a socialist the truth they cry claiming it's hate speech no it's not hate speech it's that you are useless people who have ruined the planet they have made the planet much worse and fortunately today thanks to social media especially due to the enormous and brave work of Elon Musk and the role of Twitter today X right allows information to flow which makes it possible let's say to expose politicians and also expose the media and that's why journalists in Argentina are so violent why because before they could for instance a journalist went and for example he would go to a person and he would throw a folder at them and say if you don't give me x amount of money I am going to publish all of this and tarnish your reputation and I know for a fact a case of a journalist who carried out this extortion twice to a businessman that businessman told him that he wasn't going to pay and evidently the journalist did it obviously they went to court there was a trial and that journalist lost both times but that process is very slow and in the meantime they smeared so since the justice system takes a long time so what is the problem the problem is that in the meantime your life got dired so why can journalists do all this well that's why they dislike X they dislike social media they dislike the new form of communication because they took away their Monopoly over the microphone and by taking away the Monopoly over the microphone it removed the economic benefits of extortion so clearly that's another battle I'm fighting you read a newspaper in Argentina and 85% of what you read is a lie that is to say the fundamental characteristic of most journalists not all but the vast majority of journalists in Argentina with some honorable exceptions is that they are liars slanderers and defamers and if the Monopoly they demand were still in place that they want to Reign again I have no doubt that they would demand money in exchange for silence because that's what they are they are extortionists they are thieves they are corrupt and then of course obviously when you take away a privilege from a sector they get upset well welcome to Freedom so you're not only fighting for economic freedom you're fighting for freedom of speech exactly I fight for freedom in all aspects of life that is to say one of the things that seems most interesting to me is that uh when the Berlin Wall fell it's true that officially fell in the year 1989 but the reality is that the wall or socialism fell in the Year 1961 when they had to build the wall I mean they built it because people were leaving communist Germany for capitalist Germany they realized that those on the western side were much better off and of course to prevent people from leaving they put what a wonderful system right so I mean they had to trap people they couldn't let them go I mean these are such wonderful ideas that they had to apply them at gunpoint it's quite well it's no coincidence that they killed 150 million human beings so what happened then the official fall of the wall in the year 1989 made it clear that socialism had failed in that context the Socialists they moved the discussion of class struggle in economics and took it to other areas so for example Socialism or what is of the 21st century or cultural Marxism or postm Marxism whatever definition you want is to take class struggle to different aspects of life for example one of the aspects of life where you let's say have this is in gender ideology I mean it's incredible because the first ones to defend equality before the law were the Liberals the first to defend women's rights were the Liberals Jeremy Bentham in the year 1750 was the first to demand equality before the law for women I mean the cause of equality equality before the law for women and equality of Rights the first ones who advocated for this were the Liberals did you know however what does the left do they just go on to radicalize it and then it moves to what is called female chauvinism female chauvinism is let's say the fight against males and then I mean how do they do it they do it by assigning rights but when you assign a right someone has to pay for it and that has con consquences and in general let's say this always happens the consequences are that the results are worse than what you had before I mean uh in any state intervention the subsequent result is often worse than what you originally had so that's one thing and not only that but the other side of this is the Environmental agenda which sets man against nature involving all aspects of environment mentalism and everything related to climate change in other words they can't stand any serious discussion therefore all environmental policies are nothing more than an excuse to collect taxes so that a group of parasitic bureaucrats can live at the expense of others and finance Sinister ideas where the most Sinister idea of all is that there is no room for everyone on planet Earth that is an idea that failed with malus at the beginning of the 19th century a murderous idea that was also applied by the Egyptians against the Jews and this is famously recorded in the book of shamot or Exodus or for example another thing is black lives matter that is black people against white people or indigenous people against the established communities or I mean everything related to LGBT agendas definitely these are some of the ways in which you know socialism extended the class struggle into other aspects of society creating divisions and fostering deceit with the sole purpose of absorbing taxes I mean what was the ministry of women in Argentina doing did it manage to reduce a single femicide no none at all the number of femicides exploded just the same in fact the most feminist president in Argentine History Mr Alberto Fernand this used to beat his wife that is such a strange feminist I mean well so within the ranks of feminists let's say you will essentially find the largest number of rapists and women beaters and it's um quite interesting what they do their hypocrisy is truly striking it's not just about that though I mean the battle is on three fronts you have the economic front which is free enterprise capitalism then we have the political level currently the system that the world has designed is a republican liberal democracy with checks and balances and I mean at the cultural battle level notice that socialism has been very successful in the cultural battle it has been very successful politically because it was able to translate that political battle in winning many elections but why is it falling apart why because it produces misery and because the economic system is a disaster so people eventually realize that it is making things worse for them liberal Libertarians are very good when it comes to economics yes and those good economic results can actually lead well uh to the generation of solid political processes but what happened the Liberals neglected the cultural battle much of the blame was placed on fukuyama when he said this is the end of history no it was not the end of History because the following year in 1990 the Socialist gathered at the S Paulo forum and based on the ideas of grami designed a strategy to infiltrate the media culture and education which ended up changing the entire discour course and they established that what they said was politically correct and that any idea outside of it was to be considered reactionary and had to be censored or even persecuted and they claimed to be the ones defending Freedom even though they were the ones persecuting people it's the same with journalists who get upset with Twitter they say they defend freedom but can't stand it when those who think differently speak is that freedom yes for the but not for those who think differently that's not Freedom that's fascism then what do we say then we must fight on the economic front and I believe we are implementing an extremely successful economic program that is being recognized worldwide in fact um the other night the president-elect Donald Trump indeed gave recognition for the achievements we are having in Argentina and the speed at which we have done it at the same time you have to fight the political battle because well soccer matches are not won by shouting from the stands they are won by playing on the field but that alone is not enough because you have to let's say you need to convey to society the values of capitalism the free market what liberalism is the value of Freedom right and when you succeed in that then we will indeed be able to advance steadily if you don't fight the cultural battle what happened in Chile will happen to you they had economic success it was let's say sustained over time but at some point it collapsed why did it collapse because they hadn't fought the cultural battle then socialism little by little took control of institutions in education and the media so they took over the media and culture and on that basis they attacked and broke up the system and then they found themselves with increasing doses of socialism and the only thing socialism generates is poverty therefore what you must keep in mind is that you have to fight the battles on all fronts and if you don't keep that in mind I can tell you are headed towards collapse like you said in this fight against corruption you are challenging some very powerful people a powerful establishment are you ever afraid for your life potential assassinations no tell me what good is it to live life I mean in slavery look there is a song um by a Spanish singer called Nino Bravo just to be clear he has already left this Earth so we can say he has passed on to the Beyond the song is called lib and the song it tells the story of Peter feter an 18-year-old boy who when the separation was made and I mean uh the construction of the Berlin Wall begins his family ends up on the western side and he accidentally ends up on the Eastern side and for a whole year he plans his escape to the western side right and in that context when he tries to escape he gets murdered so really what is the point of life if it's not in Freedom right I mean what is the point of living without fighting for your values if I am willing to give my life for my values then what is the point of living without Freedom look can I tell you something interesting that happened to me here in the United States I let's say back in the year 1998 I came to the United States um to take a series of courses to improve my English which I never use in formal terms because as president as you can imagine if I make a mistake I can create a serious situation fortunately I have an interpreter who is a Superstar and if I make a mistake even in Spanish He corrects me in the version of the other language and so back then in that year I went to San Francisco and I visited alcad you're young but uh I mean the visit was an audio tour you got a Walkman and you would choose the different tracks listen to the story the most interesting thing is that the alcatra store ended in the recreation yard where the basketball court exercise areas and all recreational facilities were located so anyone would have thought that this was the best part of alcross and yet what they said in the guide was that that was the hardest part for the inmates why because I mean that Recreation Area in particular is built um in front of the San Francisco Bay so the inmates could all see how San Francisco continued to build up and evolve and develop every day while they were locked up in there they couldn't take part in that they were confined in that prison and that made them fully aware of the value of Freedom so in my experience for me theight Fight For Freedom is is Relentless okay I mean my greatest hero in all of human history is Moses the feet of Moses is like one person alone with his brother Aaron both confronting the combined forces of the United States China and Russia together and it was Moses who said to ramsy let my people go well rames resisted and the forces of Heaven ran him over but what I mean is I don't see any other possible way to live other than with freedom and I would always fight for full freedom and I would be at the Forefront of this cause I mean it's a cause that I'm going to die with my boots on I mean I'm not going to make do with living any other way other than with freedom I will fight everything I'm going to fight as much as it takes uh at least that's the way I feel so what good is it to be alive if you're confined what good is it to be alive if you're not free it's no good what good was it for Peter fetcher to be alive in communist Germany well at least he had a moment of Happiness while he tried to escape another guy who fights for freedom freedom of speech in this case is your new friend Elon Musk what do you admire and what have you learned from your interactions with Elon I have a huge admiration for Elon Musk he is a he is an absolutely unconventional person he's a great Fighter for the ideas of Freedom what he has done on Twitter now known as X and how he is helping the the world nowadays to wake up once and for all and become aware of the Socialist virus the woke virus that in itself makes him a hero in the history of humanity but it's not just that one of the things that happened to me is that when I went to first talk to him I thought uh I was going to meet a successful businessman and that I would have a typical successful businessman conversation who understands business and that some of his businesses some of his business slightly more exotic but that's the kind of talk you would expect to have and business people are truly admirable right because they are true benefactors of society but they're usually very much focused on their own business and one of the things that really really shocked me when I met Elon Musk we had scheduled a meeting for um no more than 50 minutes the first time we were in the meeting for a little over 45 minutes because because he was about to miss his flight so obviously if someone as important as him doesn't fly as planned it has to be rescheduled and he loses a lot of hours imagine every minute is very valuable and and one of the things that happened was that basically he brought up the topic of demography and we started discussing demographics and growth I never imagine that I would end up discussing demographics and growth with him you know and another very fun uh thing was that um something funny he said to me was that since we shared our vision regarding demographic issues uh and the need to populate the planet he asked me now what about you when are you going to move in that direction I when I I said oh look I have five children and he said well the four-legged ones don't count that was uh the first the first meeting I had with Elon Musk the second um the second meeting was when here at the universities we started seeing anti-semitic demonstrations where basically Palestinian flags were displayed and Jews were harassed and persecuted and uh at that moment when we had that second meeting he showed himself to be very deeply involved with that and brought up the issue of the cultural battle so I mean it's not quite conventional even in the political field uh I during our last talk which lasted for about two and a half hours right one of the things we talked about was freedom and what was at stake for the United States in this in this election uh therefore he is a person you know honestly uh I can say he is well above average I mean a person of unconventional intelligence right and also he is very Charming so I mean again I have a great admiration for him and I really interact very closely with him he is very interested in what our ministry of D regulation is doing which seeks to remove regulations but at the same time he works with another person who is also interested in the chainsaw approach and so I'm very pleased because they are going to try and replicate the model we are implementing in Argentina and also uh Donald Trump himself is very enthus itic about this so and anything in the way of reducing regulations and cutting public spending and taking government out of the equation means more freedom for the people so I'm very pleased with what's going on and with Trump's Victory because the United States will be better off Argentina is going to be better too and the whole world is going to be better off today the world is a much better place than it was just a few days ago like you said Elon and vas Swami are heading the Doge Department of government efficiency so from your experience this year as president of Argentina and every chainsaw economic policies that you've implemented what advice would you give to Elon and VC about how to do it in the United States just cut to the chase cut to the chase simple as that I'll tell you a story and you're going to love it currently in AR artina due to to the political balance we've achieved we have had certain powers delegated from Congress to the executive branch and therefore we can resolve it by decree that the regulation Minister Federico Stena in his ministry shows a counter that displ in front of everyone there he displaced the number of days all right during which the delegated powers will continue to be valid therefore he has a whole the regulation division also a public spending cut Division and government structure reduction Division and he also has an elite core that's cleaning up all of the laws that hinder the economic system and progress and every day he removes between one and five economic restrictions so my advice would be for them to go all the way to push it to the very limit and do not give up do not let down their guard furthermore that agenda does not have political purpose because at the end of the day you are removing privileges of course there will be people complaining but those are people these are people who are losing privileges so they will have to explain to society why they are keeping those Privileges and that is quite uncomfortable you've spoken with Donald Trump allegedly he called you his favorite President what did you discuss and maybe again what do you admire about President Trump and uh what do you learn from him there are several things that I I admire about President Trump the first is that he probably I think he's provided ample proof of this in his first presidency he understands the nature of the cultural battle he has openly confronted socialism his speeches openly Target socialism he perfectly understands the woke virus and that that is uh you know of Great Value because it means understanding what it's all about another thing I truly admire about him is his courage in fact thankfully thank goodness he didn't get assassinated or killed but it was by a small chance occurrence that could have killed him just because he moved at the right moment and yet that didn't intimidate him and he went on and in fact during his first campaign and in this one as well in the second one and third one they criticized him insulted him offended him said awful things about him made up all sorts of horrible stories about him in that respect I can say I deeply relate because probably no one in our history has had such a Negative campaign from all the media like they did to me but let's say they were quite similar this is why it's so interesting and I was so deeply moved when last night I also got to meet Sylvester Stallone you know because uh Sylvester Stallone talks about well how important is that no matter how hard they hit you and keep on hitting you all the time despite all that you keep going on and on and on what I'm trying to say is that many of the uh many so many of Sylvester Stallone's approaches are truly inspirational don't you think so imagine I'm about to give the speech and I see Sylvester Stallone and Sylvester Stallone knows me it was truly insane I had to pinch myself I mean this can't be true and besides well the people were wonderful with me last night they've been wonderful today I've taken hundreds of selfies I'm I mean it's truly been I would say it's been my break let me say after almost a year in office and having to face all sorts of media torture because of because the journalists who have vested interests and are corrupt are professional torturers yes because they invade your personal life your family and your privacy let me tell you something to show you the kind of garbage the media in Argentina can do they sent three drones to spy on me at my presidential residence to spy on me do you think that's right exactly but that kind of thing happens in Argentina not to mention the many lies and horrible things they say I for instance remember that time when my father was hospitalized my father is a man of a really strong character who has had two heart surgeries all right and one day a journal was saying all sorts of lies about my father my father was hospitalized and well and he almost died of a heart attack so that kind of thing is what journalism and the Press do in Argentina so they start to attack your private life your mother your father your sister even my dogs that I absolutely adore they are the most wonderful beings in the universe they even Target my four-legged children so imagine that I've been in office for nearly a year a year as president and since they can't criticize my management except by lying and distorting the numbers they meddle with all these things things they have been doing all the time since the year 2021 when I officially entered politics So and I've seen what they've done to Trump so that also makes me relate a lot to him because he's a true warrior he's truly he's a viking he's a viking he's literally a viking I mean he is someone I admire for how he has kept fighting in the face of adversity even Against All Odds and still he managed to win amazing and well uh and that's why I can relate that much and I've also seen how he's been unfairly criticized like when he was accused of protectionism or when he wanted to discuss some matters within the context of public debate regarding the design of monetary policy as regards the fed and uh basically they have accused him of things I mean isn't he entitled to give an opinion as a president I mean any citizen could give their opinion even more so a president why is it important to you that Argentina has a close relationship with the United States well to us that is truly important okay you know because we've decided to be geopolitical allies of the United States ever since our campaign that our allies we have decided that our allies will be the United States and Israel because they basically represent the ideas of the Western World they represent the free world that is to say what we would call today let's say a liberal democracy okay by confronting the autocrats and in that sense that is the geopolitical alignment moreover in our campaign we were very very clear on three main points one the economic pillar we talked about cutting public spend and I would make my appearances with a chainsaw we talked about economic freedom D regulation that is and I talked about a competition of currencies and people you know obviously were interested in the dollar so it was obvious that the economic policy was clear all right and Not only was it clear but we are also fulfilling it that is the first point second was our policy on security the idea being to fight crime I mean relentlessly as well as security no mercy right and in fact in Argentina there are no more roadblocks which they said were impossible to end not only that we have strengthened the security forces and also our armed forces and we are waging a tough battle against drug trafficking and Narco terrorism therefore we are also strongly fulfilling that notice that these two points which were the main concerns they were the biggest concern of argentinians when we took office are now in fifth and sixth place today the problem for argentinians is corruption whether there is unemployment if there is poverty but they don't mention inflation and insecurity anymore and besides a third point that I made clear was that I would align with the United States and Israel internationally and you know at my campaign rallies there would be groups that would come along with fly of Israel so it's clear that our International policy approach was always very clear and uh this is something I State during my speeches when I talk about the values of the West and the civilization of the West in fact yesterday and even more so today during my speeches I talked about how the different Greek groups or tribes go together to confront the Persians that is to say it seemed that from that time 500 years before Christ until today that struggle continues right um but well so of course we're all in we are betting on the United States becoming once again a leader in the west we needed someone to come back to make America great again and and that as part of that process being a commercial Ally is also a great idea so we would really like to move forward and deepen our trade ties and our investment ties you know and well we would also like to be part of the NATO as well do you think it's still possible one of the radical ideas you had be as you were running for president was to dollarize uh the Argentine economy do you think that's still a good idea are you still thinking about that let's see let's break it down let's say I if you review all all my statements I talk about currency competition I'm not strictly talking about dollarization I'm talking about currency competition and eliminating the central bank if people later decide to embrace the dollar that is their choice ultimately in the model I propose what happens is the formation of a currency basket tailored to the needs of individuals but I won't avoid the discussion today there is currency competition if for instance today in Argentina you want to make transactions in any currency you can do it and it's allowed today there is currency competition the other thing we talk about is the concept of let's suppose we were discussing dollarization we talk about endogenous dollarization the first point is that you need to clean up the central bank we had to deal with the issue of the cirra that is the central bank's commercial debt which was $50 billion we still have to resolve the dividend problem of $10 billion and in the meantime we did a write off and cleaned up the central bank's balance sheet by $45 billion so you can't just close the central bank if it is bankrupt because you need to redeem the whole Central Bank debt which is about the issuing of money and the interest bearing liabilities so once we finished with the interest bearing liabilities it'll leave us with the monetary base therefore today we have a regime where the amount of money is fixed the monetary base is not growing and as demand for money increases since people can use dollars they don't need to go and sell the dollars and make the PES so appreciate but they can do transactions in dollars so as the economy grows you will have a greater share of dollars relative to pesos and at some point the amount of pesos compared to the dollars will be so huge relatively the closing down the central bank will be done easily which means this is working of course if you were to give me the money right now I would go ahead and dollarize i' have no problem with that for example I did have a proposal for this and this could have worked because the bonds because the largest creditor of the Argentine treasury is the central bank but Central Bank Bond were trading at 20 cents if I had sold those bonds at 20 cents and nowadays they are trading between 60 and 70 with the whole bunch of Neanderthals that are the opposition Who besides being ignorant in economics also have bad intentions I would be in jail today let me ask you a very important difficult question I'm a huge fan have been my whole life of Diego mardona and Messi so C you is the greatest football player of all time the way I see it I have seen Maradona play all right I saw Maradona play in the past I used to watch him and I saw him during his last year at Argentino Juniors before boka juniors in the Year 1980 and I saw him in 81 playing for bokeh I saw him play in the youth selection in Japan in 1979 I truly have immensely enjoyed the talent of Maradona but without a doubt the best soccer player of all time not just from Argentina of all time even better than p is Messi of course there is an article which is quite old already now titled Messi is impossible and it looks at all of the positions a soccer player plays in that is all positions a soccer player can play in from Midfield forward okay and the most incredible thing is that Messi is the best in each of those positions you can be the best in one or two positions you see Cristiano Ronaldo for example was very good in two areas of the game so much so that he was almost like Messi but he didn't take part in the rest however Messi is the best one in all respects but at that time of course nowadays you know he is an older player right and and I'm not sure whether he can still keep that performance on all fronts but uh but honestly I have never in my life seen a player like Messi I have never seen no one like him for real if you look at the number of goals he scored I correct that considering the goal average in the days of B compared to Messi's Golden Era and his career now the number of equivalent goals is much greater than that of P therefore without a doubt Mai is the greatest soccer player of all time of all time No One Compares to him but it's not just the numbers or the World Cup win it's the moments of Genius on the field Messi is unlike any other in that way Messi does things that seem technically impossible they seem physically impossible the moves he makes don't respect human logic it's like watching Usain Bolt run it doesn't feel possible he moves in a way that doesn't respect human logic am I right did you watch the 1986 World Cup with mardona with the with the hand of God with the the game against England what was that like oh yes I do remember that very well uh we watched it in the home of uh of my godfather and saw how he did his Gambit and dodged the team the England team that was truly it was absolutely absolutely Indescribable there's no way to put it into words it's as if I asked you to describe for me the love you have for your partner you can't do that right I mean it's something wonderful you can't describe it you cannot put it into words there are things where words I mean you know just seem to fail am I right I really think that uh there are times when humans or some human hum not all of them actually some humans have the privilege of being able to vibrate closer to God some Pini Aras for example when you listen to them when you listen to the famous Arya from londin or the famous Arya from Giani shii I mean you get the feeling that he was getting s dictated by God how can you put that into words you can't there's no way you do that I mean those moments where we humans are that we have the privilege I say it as human beings right because I mean I'm speaking from that perspective okay I say this only as an admirer some human beings have the ability to vibrate so close to God that you can't describe it you can only enjoy it this is why in Judaism they don't use the name of God of the Creator because how could you put in words something like that and I believe those are times when us humans connect closer to the Creator and create things unique things you cannot describe them there are no words to describe that the only thing you can do is enjoy it and be thankful that you can WI it you were a great footballer yourself in your youth you were a goalkeeper many people would say that's the toughest and the most important position in football maybe you can speak about that experience and in general what's harder being a goalkeeper or a president lovely question well indeed I used to be a goalkeeper but I'm not so sure about whether I was any good but um but you know the experience of having been a goalkeeper is very valuable first the goalkeeper is the only player that can use their hands in a certain sector of the pitch in the area the other thing is that uh he's also the only player who dresses differently right moreover their training is a solitary one and the most important I mean it is the very climax the goal right when the goal is called by their team everyone is celebrating on the other side and the goalkeeper is on his own and and at the same time he is the one who suffers the most when a goal is scored because he gets the direct impact in fact when the goalkeeper makes a mistake it's an own goal imagine a teammate scores a wonderful goal like the one Maradona did it's marvelous and that's just one goal and imagine the goalkeeper picks up the ball and then if they bring it into the area wrongly it's like two goals it's a complete lack of proportion so therefore and this in my opinion makes goalkeepers have a very strong temperament right they are used to being alone and power is precisely that because when you make decisions you are on your own and uh and not just that but also so when you have a responsibility like that of a president when you make a decision it has an impact on millions of people so just like goalkeepers if you make a mistake and score an own goal and in this context it's negative consequences for millions of people therefore that has been part of the University of life that has given me the tools to be president today that is my training in economics my training in liberalism having been a goalkeeper and also having had a very tough childhood how hard is it what's been the personal toll of carrying the hope of a Nation on your shoulders well you know being defamed insulted and attacked every single day but uh but again uh there's no point in life if it's not with freedom so like Sylvester P Stallone once said the secret to life is to carry on in spite of the blows you get the punches you take and fortunately we have been able to carry on in spite of the blows both coming at us from in front and from behind our backs because it'd have been more honest if we had been attacked directly but well you know in Argentina uh politics and the mass media they do love to attack behind your back what role has God played in your life and who is god well Faith I'd say has been a very fundamental element you know and especially in recent times during which I've become actively involved particularly in the teachings of Judaism and in in the study of uh of the Torah uh this has given me a huge let's say a huge background to face the many adversities which I've encountered and had to overcome in the last few years and as to who God is he's the Creator the maker I call him the one what is a better guide for Humanity the Invisible Hand of the market or the hand of God they're perfectly in sync well enough again going back to your youth uh you are a lead singer in a rock band who is the greatest rock star of all time okay well the way I see it the most amazing rock singer in history of mankind was definitely Elvis Presley and my favorite band is the Rolling Stones so I also greatly admire MC Jagger you know and I still have this dream of getting to meet him in person how fun would it be to play together with the with the stones that would be a big big dream uh don't get my hopes up because I set goals and then I go in a achieve them well I'm close friends with a band that opens for the stones so I would love to see this happen oh well that would be great or we could also watch the whole concert from the stage I mean I can't keep ruining the rolling stones' music I already had a tribute band and did quite a lot of damage to the music uh how much are your Rockstar Roots Define your approach to politics to life do you see yourself as a kind of showman in part of course absolutely my idea is that when you attend uh when you attend one of our events it feels like going to a Rolling Stones concert in fact in one of my most recent performances at Luna Park I even had the pleasure of singing in front of 10,000 people it's on YouTube no sorry not on YouTube it's on my Instagram feed at that event I sang a song called Panic show and the song starts by saying hi everybody I am the lion your intensity and passion have earned you the nickname El Loco the madman do you think some Madness is necessary to challenge the powerful establishment well maybe it's a matter of perspective right it could be the other way around that everyone else is Crazy by living in a way contrary to the ideas of freedom and so maybe the same person who wants to fix that is then considered a Madman anyway the nickname doesn't bother me at all in fact I even enjoy it because I've been called like that since I was 10 years old so it's not something that particularly bothers me you know because uh it's a nickname that well it's uh it has been used for many years but actually if I present to you the case of Son Martin when he said he was going to cross the Andes to liberate not only Argentina not only our country but also Chile and Peru and people called him crazy imagine if you had tried and spoken with I don't know with Michelangelo you would have called him crazy too or if had talked to I don't know hundreds of people who have changed the world surely they would have thought that Einstein was crazy and so on the list would be infinite so what is the difference between a mad man and a genius success let me ask you about the market it's so interesting from your view of the world how powerful the market is at figuring out what's best for society why do you think the market works so well as a guide for Humanity one must first understand what the market is simply put the market is a process of voluntary exchange where individuals cooperate through the transfer of property rights in which private property is upheld this this is the system that drives the allocation of resources in essence socialism and this is what mises condemns in his book socialism shows is that uh without private property prices cease to exist and therefore resources are diverted why don't you think it's the same to make a road of asphalt or gold why not make it of gold because you have an understanding of economic calculation you have an idea of prices your mind so in this context if there is no private property there are no prices and as a result the free market capitalism you know is the best mechanism ever developed by humankind for resource allocation this also implies that markets must be free free from State intervention because when the state intervenes it creates interference and uh markets need to allow free entry and exit what we call competition however it's better to understand competition in the sense described by Israel kersner one of the foremost figures of the Austrian School or in the neoclassical framework as William Bowl understood it which was the concept of free entry and exit in so-called contestable markets and also let's talk about what pertains to the the division of labor and social cooperation you know the most wonderful thing about capitalism is that you can only be successful by serving others with better quality Goods at a better price if you are successful in the free market capitalism you are a hero you are a social benefactor you are a Prosperity machine so the better you do you know the better you do the better it is for society this is very important I remember when I had my first meeting with Elon Musk and this made me admire him greatly and this is something my sister commented on too you know Elon mus told me something he does every day he wakes up every morning thinking about what problem he could fix for Humanity that's amazing of course what is the counterpart being successful therefore in that sense and moreover in my view on how the system works on how the market Works market failures do not exist that is to say that is a problem all right a problem for neoclassical economies because of of the mathematical tools they've used uh to develop economic analysis but actually it's not a real issue in everyday life it's a problem in the minds of economists in fact my latest book called capitalism socialism and the neoclassical trap deals precisely with this issue yeah you've outlined these ideas in capitalism socialism and their NE classical trap so the Trap is that there's no such thing as a middle ground it's either capitalism or socialism and every Middle Ground ends in a state of socialism well actually that is what mises said that there were he said that there are only two systems free enterprise capitalism and socialism and he also pointed out and this is proven in Hayek's book The Road to serom that any Middle Ground solution is unstable in terms of capitalism meaning it tends towards socialism so when you implement an intervention it causes government failure which then triggers further intervention setting up a trap that results in more and more intervention and in this context the neoclassicals with their market failure Theory are in fact dealing with problems that are fundamentally mathematical rather than making the world a better place they have if you will Been instrumental in increasing the levels of intervention let me tell you something well you know I have an economist as chairman of the president's advisory Council Dr Damian Rael who studied here at Harvard University and completed his PhD was mentored by Kenneth rogov the American Economist and rogov has said that Dr ridle was his best student nowadays we're actually working with Dr Ryle specifically on on all these issues that that arise from you know the interventions proposed uh proposed by the by the mainstream such as the so-called correction of market failures and a few days ago he conducted a survey of search algorithms and uh policy recommendations and that resulted in a map painted from red to blue uh and well the redder it was the more it was linked to socialism there was an intermediate thing that was yellow and blue was free market ideas and one of the things he discovered as part as part of that graph or chart was that the largest the largest number of policy recommendations scandalously are actually left leaning so that is the empirical evidence of what I pointed out in the book capitalism socialism and the neoclassical trap you mentioned your uh four-legged children what have you uh learned about life from your dogs uh well from my four-legged children I have learned unconditional love in fact well my name in Hebrew means loyal friend faithful friend and on the Chinese horoscope I am dog and if there's one thing that defines me is loyalty being decent and those virtues you know you can find them in those wonderful beings that dogs are who who love unconditionally in fact they are superior beings right spiritually speaking in my case because because you know I don't forget or forgive those who have harmed me that is to say all those who have insulted defame me and criticize me I remember each one of them but I don't have the greatness needed to forgive them on the topic of loyalty in politics I'm sure there's been a lot of people some people who have betrayed you does that hurt your heart it depends because uh you sometimes think that you can expect some people to be loyal and if they betray you of course that hurts but some people you actually don't expect anything from them so so if there's betrayal I mean you won't be annoyed or feel bad because um because you owe it to someone who didn't share your values but politics does have that you know sometimes many of the people you may come across don't have the values you advocate for but it's cost benefit you need to let the ship sail on right or would you rather let it sink that's not my case I fight until the end there are traitors but that's part of politics and that's not my line but of course they do exist there are a lot of people who admire your revolutionary Spirit what what advice would you give them maybe young people on how to live a life like yours and have an impact on the world like you have begun to do I didn't do this thinking about having an impact on the world I have defined what makes me happy and I live according to that I live consistently by that and and most importantly I would say never give up moreover and above all never be half-hearted I would rather cry because I failed rather than not crying because I never tried I mean I'm a perfectionist so when I do air of course I have a bad time but still I prefer to go and get things done if it goes wrong it's part of life but I will never never have to regret not having done what I thought needed to be done at that moment all right what gives you hope about the future of Argentina Ina and the future of humanity well uh the fact that thanks to social media and to the whole Tech Revolution going on every day more and more people are becoming aware of how important freedom is to live to live in peace and prosperity and I believe even though buau rats and the elites fight untiringly to enslave us a wave of Freedom has been Unleashed which if we do wage the fight we'll have a much better world what is your famous words of Viva libertad how did that come about and what does it mean to you Long Live Freedom damn it you know that first started while I was giving my book presentations at the end of my presentation I would say VI and um that really stuck with me since then without thinking about it throughout my life it was going to continue being present in fact today my presentations all of my speeches end with may God God bless the argentinians May the forces of Heaven be with us and Viv Liber the first phrase reflects my faith in God fervently and that I'm deeply thankful to the Creator for the wonderful things he has bestowed upon me daily the second one has to do with a quote from the book of mabes 3:19 which says that victory in battle doesn't depend on the size of the army but on the forces of Heaven this has to do with the victory of the Jewish people the mbans against the Greeks and how they recover the temple and the last one well is my war cry well there's no better way to end it thank you for being a warrior for freedom and thank you for talking today thank thank you very much indeed for your interview and thank you for being so well educated because very often interviewers are not like that and you did have Windows to play foul and you didn't and I recognize that and I thank you for that thank you thanks for listening to this conversation with Javier Malay to support this podcast please check out our sponsors in the description and now let me leave you some words from George Orwell in a time of Deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act thank you for listening and hope to see you next time